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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The worry for Nick Clegg is if moves like this in Nottingha

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  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Gazprom has halted gas supplies to the Ukraine. This could get problematic.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,986
    TOPPING said:


    Agree 100% with your post and as to the above, well they weren't at least not at the conference which overwhelmingly agreed to go into coalition.

    Collective selective memory, collective denial. I'm beginning to go off them.

    I wasn't sure you were ever "on" us to be honest.

    Mr Bond's original post is full of assumptions and inaccuracies. There was never any realistic prospect of a deal with Labour in May 2010 - the numbers weren't there, the will from the Labour side wasn't there after 13 years in office and prolonging any talks with Labour was a negotiating ploy to wring further concessions from the Conservatives.

    Being in Government and around the Cabinet table gave the LDs a presence and an influence that Supply & Confidence wouldn't and couldn't provide. The experience of Government will, I believe, be a positive for the Party in terms of policy-making and future policy development.

    There was, I believe, from 2007-10, a convergence of thought between Cameron's "liberal conservatism" and Clegg's "conservative liberalism" which took the party away from the social democratic route of Steel, Kennedy and Ashdown and toward the kind of liberalism favoured by Jo Grimond and before him Clement Davies.

    The Liberal Party of the 1950s was the small-state Party opposed to Butskellism. Indeed, a number of the IEA founders and proto-Thatcherites started life in the 1950s Liberal Party. Clegg isn't going that far but the direction of the Party under his leadership has been (and this I believe influenced by the economic recession) sharply away from social democracy.

    In a sense, Clegg has "de-merged" the post-1988 Liberal Democrats - the social democrats have returned to Labour or opted out of politics and what's left is the Liberal core.

  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    If you only read PB you'd think UKIP were on the wane but the membership keeps on rising

    Robert Kimbell ‏@RedHotSquirrel 3m

    #UKIP Membership:
    2002 9,000
    2008 14,600
    2010 15,500
    2012 19,500
    2013 32,500
    2014 39,143 as of now, and rising.

    Good news for UKIP - though still behind the Lib Dems - Labour seem to have the most members however like the Conservatives the numbers have plummeted from their joint peaks of 400k

    Source:

    http://www.libdems.org.uk/lib_dem_membership_surge_continues

    Will UKIP have more members than the Lib Dems when the GE comes ?
    Sounds like the basis one of Mike's threads

    "For all UKIPs claims of an "earthquake" they remain the party with the least members... "

    Fewest members.

    i thought there would have been a higher proportion of women in the lib dems

  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    From the article:
    However, the results of the poll in Nottingham were 75 per cent for and 25 per cent against.
    Anyone else reading that as "We've got four members"?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    TSE,
    The Dutch have a rather interesting football prog.
    It's called WK in Lingerie and you can find it on YouTube.

    Sounds like some Red Hot Dutch action.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Eagles, 10/1 is still rather splendid.

    I heard the news about Schumacher the other day. Sounds like he won't be making a complete recovery. I hope he can.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    edited June 2014
    Have England declared?

    Edit, yes they have. Should be a good day.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    From the article:

    However, the results of the poll in Nottingham were 75 per cent for and 25 per cent against.
    Anyone else reading that as "We've got four members"?

    I read it as Loughborough University Students oversaw the "count"
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Jim, attractive women tend to get lighter sentences. Staggeringly, this well-documented sexism tends not to get quite the attention as other cases.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    ToryJim said:
    She can punish me any time, and I can guarantee it will be ha[moderated]
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    I said a few weeks ago, if the Lib Dems wanted to get rid of Clegg, then they might have to employ the Harriet Jones option of "Don't you think he looks tired"

    Looks like it has begun, Caveat Emptor, it is Guido.

    Family Friend: Clegg in “Really Bad Place”

    http://order-order.com/2014/06/16/family-friend-clegg-in-really-bad-place/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited June 2014

    Mr. Jim, attractive women tend to get lighter sentences. Staggeringly, this well-documented sexism tends not to get quite the attention as other cases.

    It happens to men as well.

    The general approach is overweight people are more likely to be found guilty, especially if you're a woman

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2260680/Male-jurors-likely-women-guilty-crime-overweight-study-finds.html

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited June 2014
    stodge said:

    TOPPING said:


    Agree 100% with your post and as to the above, well they weren't at least not at the conference which overwhelmingly agreed to go into coalition.

    Collective selective memory, collective denial. I'm beginning to go off them.

    I wasn't sure you were ever "on" us to be honest.

    Mr Bond's original post is full of assumptions and inaccuracies. There was never any realistic prospect of a deal with Labour in May 2010 - the numbers weren't there, the will from the Labour side wasn't there after 13 years in office and prolonging any talks with Labour was a negotiating ploy to wring further concessions from the Conservatives.

    Being in Government and around the Cabinet table gave the LDs a presence and an influence that Supply & Confidence wouldn't and couldn't provide. The experience of Government will, I believe, be a positive for the Party in terms of policy-making and future policy development.

    There was, I believe, from 2007-10, a convergence of thought between Cameron's "liberal conservatism" and Clegg's "conservative liberalism" which took the party away from the social democratic route of Steel, Kennedy and Ashdown and toward the kind of liberalism favoured by Jo Grimond and before him Clement Davies.

    The Liberal Party of the 1950s was the small-state Party opposed to Butskellism. Indeed, a number of the IEA founders and proto-Thatcherites started life in the 1950s Liberal Party. Clegg isn't going that far but the direction of the Party under his leadership has been (and this I believe influenced by the economic recession) sharply away from social democracy.

    In a sense, Clegg has "de-merged" the post-1988 Liberal Democrats - the social democrats have returned to Labour or opted out of politics and what's left is the Liberal core.

    You're wrong (about my being "off" the LDs).

    Ever since May 2010 I have been defending the LDs (often from themselves) about the limited room for manoeuvre they've had in coalition and what an achievement that has been. And don't give me the "no realistic prospect of a deal with Labour" - as we know NC categorically laid out the conditions for forming a coalition.

    They are in power, at the table making grown-up decisions that affect you and me. Yes, they've had to shed their looney tunes far left happy-clappy hypothecating, whackjob policies. But that's great! I'm a big fan.

    And now they need to define who and what they are. Are they still to the left of (old) Labour or have they embraced the pragmatism that they have espoused these past four years in govt. They have lost the NOTA tag while in govt and I am interested to see where they go next.

  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Mr. Jim, attractive women tend to get lighter sentences. Staggeringly, this well-documented sexism tends not to get quite the attention as other cases.

    Mr Dancer, saying I'm sorry I can't do my mandated punishment because I might break a nail is ridiculous.Shouldn't have done the crime.

    Mr Eagles, behave.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited June 2014
    The thing that has amazed me the most today is that 44% of chicken eaters wash their chicken before cooking it !

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    stodge said:

    TOPPING said:


    Agree 100% with your post and as to the above, well they weren't at least not at the conference which overwhelmingly agreed to go into coalition.

    Collective selective memory, collective denial. I'm beginning to go off them.

    I wasn't sure you were ever "on" us to be honest.

    Mr Bond's original post is full of assumptions and inaccuracies. There was never any realistic prospect of a deal with Labour in May 2010 - the numbers weren't there, the will from the Labour side wasn't there after 13 years in office and prolonging any talks with Labour was a negotiating ploy to wring further concessions from the Conservatives.

    Being in Government and around the Cabinet table gave the LDs a presence and an influence that Supply & Confidence wouldn't and couldn't provide. The experience of Government will, I believe, be a positive for the Party in terms of policy-making and future policy development.

    There was, I believe, from 2007-10, a convergence of thought between Cameron's "liberal conservatism" and Clegg's "conservative liberalism" which took the party away from the social democratic route of Steel, Kennedy and Ashdown and toward the kind of liberalism favoured by Jo Grimond and before him Clement Davies.

    The Liberal Party of the 1950s was the small-state Party opposed to Butskellism. Indeed, a number of the IEA founders and proto-Thatcherites started life in the 1950s Liberal Party. Clegg isn't going that far but the direction of the Party under his leadership has been (and this I believe influenced by the economic recession) sharply away from social democracy.

    In a sense, Clegg has "de-merged" the post-1988 Liberal Democrats - the social democrats have returned to Labour or opted out of politics and what's left is the Liberal core.

    A question I have often posed to PB Liberals is "what would it take to depose Clegg/pull the plug on the Coalition?" As the election campaign begins in nine or so months, when is the cut off point for the Libs? Could they press the button at conference if things don't improve over the summer?

    The Red Liberals seem Deep Red to me.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    BobaFett said:

    stodge said:

    TOPPING said:


    Agree 100% with your post and as to the above, well they weren't at least not at the conference which overwhelmingly agreed to go into coalition.

    Collective selective memory, collective denial. I'm beginning to go off them.

    I wasn't sure you were ever "on" us to be honest.

    Mr Bond's original post is full of assumptions and inaccuracies. There was never any realistic prospect of a deal with Labour in May 2010 - the numbers weren't there, the will from the Labour side wasn't there after 13 years in office and prolonging any talks with Labour was a negotiating ploy to wring further concessions from the Conservatives.

    Being in Government and around the Cabinet table gave the LDs a presence and an influence that Supply & Confidence wouldn't and couldn't provide. The experience of Government will, I believe, be a positive for the Party in terms of policy-making and future policy development.

    There was, I believe, from 2007-10, a convergence of thought between Cameron's "liberal conservatism" and Clegg's "conservative liberalism" which took the party away from the social democratic route of Steel, Kennedy and Ashdown and toward the kind of liberalism favoured by Jo Grimond and before him Clement Davies.

    The Liberal Party of the 1950s was the small-state Party opposed to Butskellism. Indeed, a number of the IEA founders and proto-Thatcherites started life in the 1950s Liberal Party. Clegg isn't going that far but the direction of the Party under his leadership has been (and this I believe influenced by the economic recession) sharply away from social democracy.

    In a sense, Clegg has "de-merged" the post-1988 Liberal Democrats - the social democrats have returned to Labour or opted out of politics and what's left is the Liberal core.

    A question I have often posed to PB Liberals is "what would it take to depose Clegg/pull the plug on the Coalition?" As the election campaign begins in nine or so months, when is the cut off point for the Libs? Could they press the button at conference if things don't improve over the summer?

    The Red Liberals seem Deep Red to me.
    The 2015 Budget will be the launching pad for the 2015 General Election campaign.

    I'd expect it to be the most important budget since 1992.

    The Yellow Peril will want to influence that and claim credit for some eye catching proposals.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Arsenal exes in the Prem

    Fabianski
    Sagna Senderos Toure Vermaelen Clichy
    Nasri Fabregas
    Chamakh
    RvP Adebayor
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Smarmeron said:

    Gazprom has halted gas supplies to the Ukraine. This could get problematic.

    If they've stopped all gas, then it means no gas is going to reach Western Europe. This is less of an issue than it would seem (it's summer, and the North African and Norwegian connectors are far from full), but it is demonstrating a willingness to f*ck with Europe/the EU that was not previously there.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    How an arrest in Iraq revealed Isis's $2bn jihadist network

    Seizure of 160 computer flash sticks revealed the inside story of Isis, the band of militants that came from nowhere with nothing to having Syrian oil fields and control of Iraq's second city

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/15/iraq-isis-arrest-jihadists-wealth-power?CMP=twt_gu
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL

    I suppose it comes down to which think tank or lobby group you trust?
    It is the same with "benefit fraud", most people think it is circa 35%.
    What do you think the actual figure is?

    I think a point not often widely understood is that actual benefit fraud itself is very rare, and is confined in reality to a small handful of career criminals and the odd UKIP MEP.

    When Daily Mail readers get enraged about benefit fraud, what they are really thinking about is not the theft of benefits by people not entitled to them, but the receipt of benefits by people who are but who DM readers think should not be.

    Here again it's very hard to identify anyone deserving of having their benefits taken away because most of the bill is for pensions, or tops ups to badly paid people who are actualoly working, or to some other group of people who are paying more than they are getting and are therefore funding every one else.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    @TSE One for the dodgy music collection:

    I was drinking with Tony Robinson from Aswad in an nightclub in the early hours of this morning after their gig here in Gib. Top bloke!
  • AlasdairAlasdair Posts: 72
    edited June 2014
    Only if terms can be agreed with Arsenal.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    New Populus VI: Lab 37 (+2); Cons 33 (+1); LD 9 (+1); UKIP 13 (-2); Oth 8 (-2) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140616
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Oliver_PB said:

    I don't know the exact details, I'm afraid. I just know he found out about via an article on the Daily Mail website and wasn't best happy about it!

    And today's life lesson is to stop basing long-term financial planning on articles in the Daily Mail.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    New Populus VI: Lab 37 (+2); Cons 33 (+1); LD 9 (+1); UKIP 13 (-2); Oth 8 (-2) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140616

    Established parties re asserting themselves?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,986
    TOPPING said:


    You're wrong (about my being "off" the LDs).

    Ever since May 2010 I have been defending the LDs (often from themselves) about the limited room for manoeuvre they've had in coalition and what an achievement that has been. And don't give me the "no realistic prospect of a deal with Labour" - as we know NC categorically laid out the conditions for forming a coalition.

    They are in power, at the table making grown-up decisions that affect you and me. Yes, they've had to shed their looney tunes far left happy-clappy hypothecating, whackjob policies. But that's great! I'm a big fan.

    And now they need to define who and what they are. Are they still to the left of (old) Labour or have they embraced the pragmatism that they have espoused these past four years in govt. They have lost the NOTA tag while in govt and I am interested to see where they go next.

    I don't think that Labour wanted to dance in 2010 - they were politically and intellectually exhausted from 13 years in power. It's a realistic a scenario as a Major-Ashdown deal would have been had the 1992 election produced a Hung Parliament (which it nearly did).

    On the rest, I don't disagree. The philosophical way forward for the Party isn't clear (I'm not sure it is for the Conservative or Labour parties either to be honest). IF Labour win, there will be an opportunity while the Tories settle scores with UKIP for the Party to carve out a niche but as what ? There's no future in outflanking Labour from the Left as we know.

    I would like to think the positives from the Coalition Experience in terms of working to improve the lot of the lower paid and encouraging work rather than benefits are areas the party can build on. As distinct from the Conservatives, who seem more willing to target largesse at higher earners, the LDs should continue the emphasis on helping the lowest paid possibly by reducing NI for those on low incomes and looking at improving rights for part-time workers. There is a huge issue on housing and I would like to see the Party being much bolder on planning reform.

  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    England look big at 2/1 on Betfair here. Uneven bounce will be key, but it's hooping around at the moment. Feels like it should be 50/50 (SL no chance).
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Eagles, "Family Friend: Clegg in “Really Bad Place”": I thought lots of Sheffield was rather nice?

    Also, women are likelier to have psych interventions and I'm pretty sure handsome men don't have the same degree of advantage as pretty women.

    Mr. Jim, just one more advantage of a trebuchet-based justice system. It's really no effort at all for the criminal. Gravity does most of the work, and the trebuchet does the rest.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    New Populus VI: Lab 37 (+2); Cons 33 (+1); LD 9 (+1); UKIP 13 (-2); Oth 8 (-2) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140616

    Nothing has changed since last time in my opinion a brief look at the tables tells me. I think the weighting for Lab-Con is in general going to be alot more accurate than for UKIP-LD.

    Lab/Con shares have adjusted to a smallish degree from the last General Election. But UKIP have gone from ~ 2.5% to ~ 13 ?% minimum and the Lib Dems are on 13% at the very most from 25% or so - one parties vote has at the very least halved the other quadrupled or so in terms of VI. I simply am not certain that the weighting assumptions are so valid in this situation.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939

    ToryJim said:
    She can punish me any time, and I can guarantee it will be ha[moderated]
    It came after she refused to wear an electronic tag for a separate offence because it interfered with her adult TV work.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2658839/I-dont-want-community-service-picking-litter-tiring-says-glamour-model-skipped-probation-meeting-boob-job-Belgium.html#ixzz34nSTIL5j
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    I would have thought there'd be a substantial audience for pr0n involving women wearing tags.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Mr. Eagles, "Family Friend: Clegg in “Really Bad Place”": I thought lots of Sheffield was rather nice?

    Also, women are likelier to have psych interventions and I'm pretty sure handsome men don't have the same degree of advantage as pretty women.

    Mr. Jim, just one more advantage of a trebuchet-based justice system. It's really no effort at all for the criminal. Gravity does most of the work, and the trebuchet does the rest.

    Mr Dancer, I think this individual needs a more celestially based justice option.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Re.Populus: UKIP's Euro Elections bubble starting to deflate?

    We await His Lordship.

    Meanwhile I hear that Tony Blair has been booked in for electric shock treatment at 3pm.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    New Populus VI: Lab 37 (+2); Cons 33 (+1); LD 9 (+1); UKIP 13 (-2); Oth 8 (-2) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140616

    Will the Tories missing men come back from UKIP?

    Men: Con 31% - 38% Labour (UKIP 17%)
    Women: Con 35% - 37% Labour (UKIP 9%)
  • New Populus VI: Lab 37 (+2); Cons 33 (+1); LD 9 (+1); UKIP 13 (-2); Oth 8 (-2) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140616

    UKIP seem to be sliding in the polls towards a single digit level of support - could this be the time to take Ladbrokes 2/1 on them winning between 5% - 10% of the UK vote in the GE?

    This looks like a value bet to me, but as ever DYOR.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Those internals look awful for the Lib Dems to my eyes...

    Lib Dems:

    Raw 95 weighted to 136.

    Certainty to vote 10/10

    57%...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Jim, do you refer to the space cannon, or the solar death ray?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Pulpstar said:

    I simply am not certain that the weighting assumptions are so valid in this situation.

    I'd be interested to hear from some of the Kippers on here as to how they would answer the question:

    "Regardless of which party, if any, you are likely to end up voting for at the next General Election due in May 2015 or are leaning towards at the moment, which political party would you say you have usually most closely identified yourself with?"

    My suspicion is that the answer to this question is a lot less fixed than Populus are hoping, but I could easily be wrong.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Mr. Jim, do you refer to the space cannon, or the solar death ray?

    Either Mr Dancer, her absence from the gene pool would be of benefit to mankind.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Q.4 Regardless of which party, if any, you are likely to end up voting for at the next General Election due in May 2015 or are leaning towards at the moment, which political party would you say you have usually most closely identified yourself with?

    Is that possibly the worst question ever to weight to ?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    New Populus VI: Lab 37 (+2); Cons 33 (+1); LD 9 (+1); UKIP 13 (-2); Oth 8 (-2) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140616

    UKIP seem to be sliding in the polls towards a single digit level of support

    ??

    No they don't.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#Graphical_summary
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Pulpstar said:

    I simply am not certain that the weighting assumptions are so valid in this situation.

    I'd be interested to hear from some of the Kippers on here as to how they would answer the question:

    "Regardless of which party, if any, you are likely to end up voting for at the next General Election due in May 2015 or are leaning towards at the moment, which political party would you say you have usually most closely identified yourself with?"

    My suspicion is that the answer to this question is a lot less fixed than Populus are hoping, but I could easily be wrong.
    This weighting question is truly dire I think.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    New Populus VI: Lab 37 (+2); Cons 33 (+1); LD 9 (+1); UKIP 13 (-2); Oth 8 (-2) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140616

    UKIP seem to be sliding in the polls towards a single digit level of support - could this be the time to take Ladbrokes 2/1 on them winning between 5% - 10% of the UK vote in the GE?

    This looks like a value bet to me, but as ever DYOR.

    I'm on from a few days ago, when it was 9/4. I think it is a good-value bet even at 2/1. I can't see them dropping below 5%; therefore I think the bet comes down to whether they exceed 10% or not. I'd have put that at less than a 50% chance.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    To think that when Scotland is an independent nation it will be able to appear in the World Cup
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Pulpstar said:

    I simply am not certain that the weighting assumptions are so valid in this situation.

    I'd be interested to hear from some of the Kippers on here as to how they would answer the question:

    "Regardless of which party, if any, you are likely to end up voting for at the next General Election due in May 2015 or are leaning towards at the moment, which political party would you say you have usually most closely identified yourself with?"

    My suspicion is that the answer to this question is a lot less fixed than Populus are hoping, but I could easily be wrong.
    I always voted Labour in the past, I will definitley vote UKIP next time
  • Pulpstar said:

    Q.4 Regardless of which party, if any, you are likely to end up voting for at the next General Election due in May 2015 or are leaning towards at the moment, which political party would you say you have usually most closely identified yourself with?

    Is that possibly the worst question ever to weight to ?

    It's certainly a weirdly worded question. There are so many opt-outs/ angles that it's almost inviting one to select a party contrary to one's actual preference.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    New Populus VI: Lab 37 (+2); Cons 33 (+1); LD 9 (+1); UKIP 13 (-2); Oth 8 (-2) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140616

    UKIP seem to be sliding in the polls towards a single digit level of support

    ??

    No they don't.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#Graphical_summary
    Good job you DYOR!
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    To think that when Scotland is an independent nation it will be able to appear in the World Cup

    It will take a while for them to build the infrastructure up from nothing.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    To think that when Scotland is an independent nation it will be able to appear in the World Cup

    If I say "no, they won't" does that count as Yoonyoonist bullying?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    To think that when Scotland is an independent nation it will be able to appear in the World Cup

    It will take a while for them to build the infrastructure up from nothing.
    Presumably a joke - but in any case it's staying in the competition that is the problem - hence the postmodern ironist nature of the average Tartan Army fan.

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Populus

    Yet another poll showing the Labour share rising.

    Interesting trend.
  • Oliver_PBOliver_PB Posts: 397

    Pulpstar said:

    I simply am not certain that the weighting assumptions are so valid in this situation.

    I'd be interested to hear from some of the Kippers on here as to how they would answer the question:

    "Regardless of which party, if any, you are likely to end up voting for at the next General Election due in May 2015 or are leaning towards at the moment, which political party would you say you have usually most closely identified yourself with?"

    My suspicion is that the answer to this question is a lot less fixed than Populus are hoping, but I could easily be wrong.
    I'm not a Kipper, but my response is a resounding "eh?".
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    New Populus VI: Lab 37 (+2); Cons 33 (+1); LD 9 (+1); UKIP 13 (-2); Oth 8 (-2) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140616

    UKIP seem to be sliding in the polls towards a single digit level of support - could this be the time to take Ladbrokes 2/1 on them winning between 5% - 10% of the UK vote in the GE?

    This looks like a value bet to me, but as ever DYOR.

    I was trying to think of a bet we could have, but to me taking 1/2 about 5-15% loooks fantastic value
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Isn't that just "Who do you normally vote for...?", with a subtext of "...assuming you can get off your lardy arse to vote".
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    Scott_P said:

    To think that when Scotland is an independent nation it will be able to appear in the World Cup

    If I say "no, they won't" does that count as Yoonyoonist bullying?
    No, just a Unionist scare story (and with the usual level of accuracy thereof!).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    New Populus VI: Lab 37 (+2); Cons 33 (+1); LD 9 (+1); UKIP 13 (-2); Oth 8 (-2) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140616

    UKIP seem to be sliding in the polls towards a single digit level of support

    ??

    No they don't.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#Graphical_summary
    It's possible that ICM might put UKIP on under 10%, but I can't see them heading to that level with any other pollster.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited June 2014

    Pulpstar said:

    Q.4 Regardless of which party, if any, you are likely to end up voting for at the next General Election due in May 2015 or are leaning towards at the moment, which political party would you say you have usually most closely identified yourself with?

    Is that possibly the worst question ever to weight to ?

    It's certainly a weirdly worded question. There are so many opt-outs/ angles that it's almost inviting one to select a party contrary to one's actual preference.
    The correct answer for @isam of this parish to this question would be "Labour". This is what Populus is looking for. If people answered this question as it was intended then UKIP would have alot higher Voting Intention on the topline of Populus.

    People don't understand the question so an awful lot of UKIPpers are answering "UKIP" even though what the question is looking for is different to the question they think they are hearing.

    What people are answering is "Q.4 Regardless of which party, if any, you are likely to end up voting for at the next General Election due in May 2015 or are leaning towards at the moment, which political party would you say you most closely identify yourself with?"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited June 2014
    John_M said:

    Isn't that just "Who do you normally vote for...?", with a subtext of "...assuming you can get off your lardy arse to vote".

    It is, but a significant number of people are answering the alternative Question 4 I have posted below.

    "Who have you normally voted for in the past" would be a FAR better question and is what they are attempting to get at I think.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,549
    Underlying trend from the Populus data is the continuing higher % of 2010LD to be voting green now. It is currently around 6/7 % more than 2% than at the start of the year. This has mainly come from a reduced 2010LD to Lab shift.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited June 2014
    Concatenated into post below.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Labour are polling a mahoosive one per cent more with populus than they did before the Euros.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Mr Dancer, Clegg spends most of his time in London.

    If he spent more time in Sheffield he'd be a happier chap.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Labour are polling a mahoosive one per cent more with populus than they did before the Euros.

    Labour need to keep up this ~36% share I think as wall to wall Ed Miliband will peg it back a fair bit before the GE.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Labour are polling a mahoosive one per cent more with populus than they did before the Euros.

    Ed posing with the SUN worked then...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Looks like the Lanka have started off at a fair tick.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PSbook: BREAKING → Vince Cable will be subject of official investigation by Standards Commissioner http://t.co/Sv1qy9C8n3
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Pulpstar said:

    John_M said:

    Isn't that just "Who do you normally vote for...?", with a subtext of "...assuming you can get off your lardy arse to vote".

    It is, but a significant number of people are answering the alternative Question 4 I have posted below.

    "Who have you normally voted for in the past" would be a FAR better question and is what they are attempting to get at I think.
    I share your concerns with the question - I think it's bound to dampen down real swings in opinion.

    Another alternative would be to ask something like:

    "Which political party do you think your parents would have voted for when you were a child?"

    It gets to the political identity part of the question that Populus are after, but externalises it from the respondent, so that they don't have to deal with the conflict between their current voting intention and their past voting intention.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Scott_P said:

    @PSbook: BREAKING → Vince Cable will be subject of official investigation by Standards Commissioner http://t.co/Sv1qy9C8n3

    Cable is a busted flush. Come on Twickenham, do the right thing!

  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,549
    A very good analysis of how the political balance is Sussex may impact railway enhancements.

    http://www.londonreconnections.com/2014/study-sussex-part-2-political-economic-background/
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Scott_P said:

    @PSbook: BREAKING → Vince Cable will be subject of official investigation by Standards Commissioner http://t.co/Sv1qy9C8n3

    This seems pretty weak to me as an attack on Vince. In what way is being shown the results of a poll, which someone else commissioned, a 'financial interest' in the sense that the Register is meant to disclose? It's not a personal payment to Vince, nor a contribution to his campaigning. At worst it seems to be an unsolicited piece of advance information.

    If it is a breach of the rules, it's an exceptionally arcane and technical one, which I wouldn't have thought would have any effect.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    BobaFett said:

    Populus

    Yet another poll showing the Labour share rising.

    Interesting trend.

    It's all very small movement, but FWIW my reading is that UKIP picked up some vaguely anti-government votes from Labour around Euro time which are now drifting back. At the weekend we were doing WWC wards and there was significantly less mention of UKIP than at any time for some weeks. The more ideological/committed kippers aren't affected.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @TSE

    Single data point? The trend for a small improvement in the Labour share is pretty clear I think.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @ScottP

    We were assured by the likes of AudreyAnne and ToryJim that the Sun thing would be a disaster for Ed.

    It's made no difference at all, as the sensible among us predicted. I include the likes of Dyed Woolie in that - a very bright Tory posters.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PSbook: BREAKING → Vince Cable will be subject of official investigation by Standards Commissioner http://t.co/Sv1qy9C8n3

    Cable is a busted flush. Come on Twickenham, do the right thing!

    Careful. He might be tempted to threaten TW11 with his nuclear weapon.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @RichardN

    Agreed. Very very thin.

    @NickP

    Agreed - seems to support the polling. A small but clear uptick.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    To think that when Scotland is an independent nation it will be able to appear in the World Cup

    Ah, so what you're saying is that the Scots have been secretly independent since the 1978 World Cup....
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    BobaFett said:

    @ScottP

    We were assured by the likes of AudreyAnne and ToryJim that the Sun thing would be a disaster for Ed.

    It's made no difference at all, as the sensible among us predicted. I include the likes of Dyed Woolie in that - a very bright Tory posters.

    I never said it would have an immediate effect, my point was it would feed into the ongoing story of Ed. It will reinforce his weaknesses in the longer term. Lots of things don't get noticed but feed into our memory so that later when similar happens it pops back up as a vague recollection.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @ToryJim

    Ed has so far been weird, weak and dangerous.

    Listening to that Tories anyone would think he was an oddly designed railway bridge.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    Ed has so far been weird, weak and dangerous.

    Listening to that Tories anyone would think he was an oddly designed railway bridge.

    You misunderstand, he is the third because he is the first two.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    BobaFett said:

    @ScottP

    We were assured by the likes of AudreyAnne and ToryJim that the Sun thing would be a disaster for Ed.

    It's made no difference at all, as the sensible among us predicted. I include the likes of Dyed Woolie in that - a very bright Tory posters.

    Are you sure that's patronising enough?

    ed/Sun may not frighten you, but I am pretty sure it scares the shit out of the shadow cabinet. It confirms the public appetite for "weird ed" stories, and the press will satisfy that appetite.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    Ed has so far been weird, weak and dangerous.

    Listening to that Tories anyone would think he was an oddly designed railway bridge.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zczJXSxnw
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    Ed has so far been weird, weak and dangerous.

    Listening to that Tories anyone would think he was an oddly designed railway bridge.

    We get that you don't like that criticism.

    The public by and large agree with it though:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-british-public-still-think-ed-miliband-is-weird
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited June 2014

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PSbook: BREAKING → Vince Cable will be subject of official investigation by Standards Commissioner http://t.co/Sv1qy9C8n3

    Cable is a busted flush. Come on Twickenham, do the right thing!

    Careful. He might be tempted to threaten TW11 with his nuclear weapon.
    I have an image of Vince cackling maniacally as he presses the Big Red Button. There's a fizz and a small, barely audible 'pop', followed by an embarrassed silence. Vince grabs his coat and leaves.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    Ed has so far been weird, weak and dangerous.

    Listening to that Tories anyone would think he was an oddly designed railway bridge.

    We get that you don't like that criticism.

    The public by and large agree with it though:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-british-public-still-think-ed-miliband-is-weird
    The PB Tories assured us that Ed's weirdness - and then his 'weird' apology - on the Sun sideshow would be a disaster for him.

    Not so according to Populus, which shows Labour's score rising.

    Polling vs PB Tory wishful thinking.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    Ed has so far been weird, weak and dangerous.

    Listening to that Tories anyone would think he was an oddly designed railway bridge.

    We get that you don't like that criticism.

    The public by and large agree with it though:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-british-public-still-think-ed-miliband-is-weird
    The PB Tories assured us that Ed's weirdness - and then his 'weird' apology - on the Sun sideshow would be a disaster for him.

    Not so according to Populus, which shows Labour's score rising.

    Polling vs PB Tory wishful thinking.
    Oh good grief.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    ToryJim said:

    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    Ed has so far been weird, weak and dangerous.

    Listening to that Tories anyone would think he was an oddly designed railway bridge.

    We get that you don't like that criticism.

    The public by and large agree with it though:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-british-public-still-think-ed-miliband-is-weird
    The PB Tories assured us that Ed's weirdness - and then his 'weird' apology - on the Sun sideshow would be a disaster for him.

    Not so according to Populus, which shows Labour's score rising.

    Polling vs PB Tory wishful thinking.
    Oh good grief.
    Leave him be. Comfort blankets are, well, comforting.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    Ed has so far been weird, weak and dangerous.

    Listening to that Tories anyone would think he was an oddly designed railway bridge.

    We get that you don't like that criticism.

    The public by and large agree with it though:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-british-public-still-think-ed-miliband-is-weird
    The PB Tories assured us that Ed's weirdness - and then his 'weird' apology - on the Sun sideshow would be a disaster for him.

    Not so according to Populus, which shows Labour's score rising.

    Polling vs PB Tory wishful thinking.
    You are channeling tim, and over-posting.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Meanwhile, Dan Hodges has penned yet another article about how the Labour leader is crap:

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100276498/tony-blair-isnt-mad-but-if-he-wants-the-west-to-intervene-in-iraq-a-period-of-silence-on-his-part-would-be-welcome/

    But for a change, it's a different Labour leader.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    My fav recent poll was the one showing Labour voters are least likely to want England to win the World Cup

    Would be even less if Cuba were involved!
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    antifrank said:

    ToryJim said:

    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    Ed has so far been weird, weak and dangerous.

    Listening to that Tories anyone would think he was an oddly designed railway bridge.

    We get that you don't like that criticism.

    The public by and large agree with it though:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-british-public-still-think-ed-miliband-is-weird
    The PB Tories assured us that Ed's weirdness - and then his 'weird' apology - on the Sun sideshow would be a disaster for him.

    Not so according to Populus, which shows Labour's score rising.

    Polling vs PB Tory wishful thinking.
    Oh good grief.
    Leave him be. Comfort blankets are, well, comforting.

    It's a good job someone picks up the rebuttals. The Tory dominance on this site is now so overwhelming that it has long since ceased to be a decent resource for betting.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    A by-election in Portsmouth South which the LDs lose would probably be fatal for Clegg.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    ToryJim said:

    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    Ed has so far been weird, weak and dangerous.

    Listening to that Tories anyone would think he was an oddly designed railway bridge.

    We get that you don't like that criticism.

    The public by and large agree with it though:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-british-public-still-think-ed-miliband-is-weird
    The PB Tories assured us that Ed's weirdness - and then his 'weird' apology - on the Sun sideshow would be a disaster for him.

    Not so according to Populus, which shows Labour's score rising.

    Polling vs PB Tory wishful thinking.
    Oh good grief.
    Leave him be. Comfort blankets are, well, comforting.

    It's a good job someone picks up the rebuttals. The Tory dominance on this site is now so overwhelming that it has long since ceased to be a decent resource for betting.
    Damn, didn't realise we were playing PB bingo.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    AndyJS said:

    A by-election in Portsmouth South which the LDs lose would probably be fatal for Clegg.

    Is a by-election that likely there? I know the issues etching but don't see a vast appetite for one
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    ToryJim said:

    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    Ed has so far been weird, weak and dangerous.

    Listening to that Tories anyone would think he was an oddly designed railway bridge.

    We get that you don't like that criticism.

    The public by and large agree with it though:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-british-public-still-think-ed-miliband-is-weird
    The PB Tories assured us that Ed's weirdness - and then his 'weird' apology - on the Sun sideshow would be a disaster for him.

    Not so according to Populus, which shows Labour's score rising.

    Polling vs PB Tory wishful thinking.
    Oh good grief.
    Leave him be. Comfort blankets are, well, comforting.

    It's a good job someone picks up the rebuttals. The Tory dominance on this site is now so overwhelming that it has long since ceased to be a decent resource for betting.
    But you piously exclaim that it's crazy that the Conservatives label Ed Miliband "weird" when poll after poll - which you affect to ignore or simply not read - shows that's exactly what the public think of Ed Miliband. And you seize on a one day rise in Labour support in a single Populus poll to dismiss any assault on the dignity of the person of the Labour leader. It's not exactly blowing the argument out of the water.

    Is the election going to be solely about Ed Miliband's personality traits? No. But it's going to play a substantial part. And unless he can turn around public perceptions soon, this is going to act as a lead weight dragging Labour's chances down.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Oh dear, MP caught praising the wrong village. Someone's researcher didn't live up to their job description.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10902632/Labour-MP-hails-beautiful-waterfalls-of-Ingleton-in-the-wrong-village.html
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    ToryJim said:

    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    Ed has so far been weird, weak and dangerous.

    Listening to that Tories anyone would think he was an oddly designed railway bridge.

    We get that you don't like that criticism.

    The public by and large agree with it though:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-british-public-still-think-ed-miliband-is-weird
    The PB Tories assured us that Ed's weirdness - and then his 'weird' apology - on the Sun sideshow would be a disaster for him.

    Not so according to Populus, which shows Labour's score rising.

    Polling vs PB Tory wishful thinking.
    Oh good grief.
    Leave him be. Comfort blankets are, well, comforting.

    It's a good job someone picks up the rebuttals. The Tory dominance on this site is now so overwhelming that it has long since ceased to be a decent resource for betting.
    But you piously exclaim that it's crazy that the Conservatives label Ed Miliband "weird" when poll after poll - which you affect to ignore or simply not read - shows that's exactly what the public think of Ed Miliband. And you seize on a one day rise in Labour support in a single Populus poll to dismiss any assault on the dignity of the person of the Labour leader. It's not exactly blowing the argument out of the water.

    Is the election going to be solely about Ed Miliband's personality traits? No. But it's going to play a substantial part. And unless he can turn around public perceptions soon, this is going to act as a lead weight dragging Labour's chances down.
    I have not seized on a one day rise at all. I have been pointing out for days that the Labour share has risen a bit since the Euros. The fact that the PB Tories refuse to listen/notice is hardly my fault.

This discussion has been closed.