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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How British politics might have been different If Gordon Ba

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  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Jim, I believe Cesare and Alexander both disliked the Orisini and their rivals (Colonnese?).

    Mr. H, it's astounding, I know.

    Such a shame Byzantium fell.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Apparently the Iraqi government lost control of Fallujah back in January but the media didn't do a very good job of reporting it at the time.

    Fallujah is just 36 miles from Baghdad.


    The International Airport at Baghdad is even nearer.
    Have Isis arrived there?
  • Dr Stephen Fisher's latest projection of GE Seats, based on UKPR's averaging of the most recent polls (showing small movements over the past week) is as follows:

    Con .......... 308 seats (+1 seat)
    Lab ........... 287 seats (+1 seat)
    LibDem ...... 27 seats (-2 seats)
    Other ..........28 seats (unchanged)

    Total .........650 seats
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Lab up by 1.37 Tory down by 1.18 gap up by 2.55 or as philiph would say 3
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    philiph said:

    Mr. H, through backstairs shenanigans, I believe. Bit modern for me, so I don't know much detail.

    Mr. F, I didn't know that.


    Are you telling me that not all Popes were created by the pure will of God expressed through his mortal representatives?

    I'm shocked and disillusioned. Shenanigans at the pinnacle of the Catholic Church. I would have never guessed or known.
    Well we best not get onto the Papal veto exercised by Catholic monarchs up until 1903
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Mr. Jim, I believe Cesare and Alexander both disliked the Orisini and their rivals (Colonnese?).

    Mr. H, it's astounding, I know.

    Such a shame Byzantium fell.

    It only fell because of the ruin of the Latin Empire after the crusade. It probably would have hung on 200 years later but for that, and European history would have been very very different.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Over same 22 YG polls Con vote also completely level. First 11 Ave% 33.36 last 11 32.18%

    Or just showing the Labour lead increasing in a very gentle drift.

    Would nothing outwith MOE be a normal view?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Lab up by 1.37 Tory down by 1.18 gap up by 2.55 or as philiph would say 3

    To infinity, and beyond!
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Apparently the Iraqi government lost control of Fallujah back in January but the media didn't do a very good job of reporting it at the time.

    Fallujah is just 36 miles from Baghdad.


    The International Airport at Baghdad is even nearer.
    Have Isis arrived there?

    That is a known unknown.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Woolie, d'you mean the Fourth Crusade?

    The Latin nations should have offered far more help. Instead, Byzantium was abandoned, and, tragically, lost forever. It wasn't even helpful for the Latins for Byzantium to fall.

    In Byzantium's favour, its last emperor was worthy of the title, unlike the Western Empire's final emperor.
  • I note on Sky News that George H W Bush has been skydiving on his 90th birthday - despite his legs no longer working. Did the same for 80th and 85th. Way cool!
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Lab up by 1.37 Tory down by 1.18 gap up by 2.55 or as philiph would say 3

    No, I think that should be 4
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Mr. Jim, I believe Cesare and Alexander both disliked the Orisini and their rivals (Colonnese?).

    Mr. H, it's astounding, I know.

    Such a shame Byzantium fell.

    I think the major Borgia feuds were with the Medici, the Sforza, Cardinal Savonarola and the Orsini. Fun times.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    BobaFett said:

    Charles said:

    BobaFett said:

    Charles said:

    BobaFett said:

    Morning all. Belter of a day in London Town.

    Surprised there has not been more discussion about YouGov, which shows the trend of higher Labour scores continuing. Be interesting to have a thread on this at some stage, looking at the reasons behind it.

    One poll and all that, remember ;-)

    You just had 2 with a 2pt lead...
    Look at the shares not the lead Charles. PB Golden Rule.
    I know. Labour still around 36. I don't recall them being meaningfully lower except on a couple of occasions
    Be interesting to compare May's polling with that of June. UKPR did an analysis on this the other day. It may surprise you.
    Doesn't work on my bb. Can you summarise?

    See the june YGs have Lab leads of 6,4.5,6,4,6,2,2,6.

    Or in PB Tories minds 2,2 and six outliers.

    Sure - probably bouncing around 5pt. But hasn't that been driven by Con-UKIP relative shares rather than a wave of enthusiasm for the Labour party?
    You are right Charles. No noticeable increase in Labour vote at all
    22 YG polls in last month
    first 11 had LAB on36,34,35,36,37,37,35,34,35,34,36 average LAB% 35.36% (low 34 high 37)
    the 2nd 11 LAB % was 38,36,36,36,37,37,37,3737,36,38 av LAB% 36.73% (low 36 high 38)

    But take out the 9 outliers from last 11 and no movement at all LOL
    A whole 1.37%

    With the firm that overstates Labour by 2.1 compared to the average

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/06/
    Finished your sentance for you .....And the Tories by 1.9% compared to the average
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    England averaging over 4 an over. Nice to see - that is the scoring rate that wins test matches rather than draws them.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Jim, indeed. Renaissance Italy isn't really my time/place, but it is quite interesting.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Apparently the Iraqi government lost control of Fallujah back in January but the media didn't do a very good job of reporting it at the time.

    Fallujah is just 36 miles from Baghdad.


    The International Airport at Baghdad is even nearer.
    Have Isis arrived there?

    That is a known unknown.
    Is that a clever way of saying, "No". I only ask because big chunks of security at Baghdad airport is still provided by contractors employed by, and largely from, the West so if fighting was going on there I think we would have heard about it by now.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Mr. Woolie, d'you mean the Fourth Crusade?

    The Latin nations should have offered far more help. Instead, Byzantium was abandoned, and, tragically, lost forever. It wasn't even helpful for the Latins for Byzantium to fall.

    In Byzantium's favour, its last emperor was worthy of the title, unlike the Western Empire's final emperor.

    Yes, the idiot Baldwin and his successors who left the Balkans vulnerable.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    philiph said:

    Lab up by 1.37 Tory down by 1.18 gap up by 2.55 or as philiph would say 3

    No, I think that should be 4
    Or zero surely

    Or maybe once you apply the YG bias factor its minus 4 and it all ends happily ever after with a Tory majority of Romney HMS pissthepresidency proportions
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Mr. Jim, indeed. Renaissance Italy isn't really my time/place, but it is quite interesting.

    Oh I think it is probably more bloody and brutal than most of the stuff the Romans got up to.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    philiph said:

    Mr. H, through backstairs shenanigans, I believe. Bit modern for me, so I don't know much detail.

    Mr. F, I didn't know that.


    Are you telling me that not all Popes were created by the pure will of God expressed through his mortal representatives?

    I'm shocked and disillusioned. Shenanigans at the pinnacle of the Catholic Church. I would have never guessed or known.
    The Borgias were fairly respectable compared to the "pornocracy" that dominated Rome in the 10th century. This was the description given of Pope John XII:-

    "Then, rising up, the cardinal priest Peter testified that he himself had seen John XII celebrate Mass without taking communion. John, bishop of Narni, and John, a cardinal deacon, professed that they themselves saw that a deacon had been ordained in a horse stable, but were unsure of the time. Benedict, cardinal deacon, with other co-deacons and priests, said they knew that he had been paid for ordaining bishops, specifically that he had ordained a ten-year-old bishop in the city of Todi... They testified about his adultery, which they did not see with their own eyes, but nonetheless knew with certainty: he had fornicated with the widow of Rainier, with Stephana his father's concubine, with the widow Anna, and with his own niece, and he made the sacred palace into a whorehouse. They said that he had gone hunting publicly; that he had blinded his confessor Benedict, and thereafter Benedict had died; that he had killed John, cardinal subdeacon, after castrating him; and that he had set fires, girded on a sword, and put on a helmet and cuirass. All, clerics as well as laymen, declared that he had toasted to the devil with wine. They said when playing at dice, he invoked Jupiter, Venus and other demons. They even said he did not celebrate Matins at the canonical hours nor did he make the sign of the cross."

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Apparently the Iraqi government lost control of Fallujah back in January but the media didn't do a very good job of reporting it at the time.

    Fallujah is just 36 miles from Baghdad.


    The International Airport at Baghdad is even nearer.
    Have Isis arrived there?

    That is a known unknown.
    Is that a clever way of saying, "No". I only ask because big chunks of security at Baghdad airport is still provided by contractors employed by, and largely from, the West so if fighting was going on there I think we would have heard about it by now.
    Is "security contractor" a polite couple of words for mercenary ?
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @PhillipH

    Polling verses PB Tory anecdote

    57% told YouGov this week that they were interested in the football.

    VI among football fans

    Lab 45
    Con 31
    Kip 12
    Lib 4

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Quite agree, Mr. Woolie.

    Mr. Jim, I'd be surprised. The ancient Romans got up to some properly mental stuff.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    BobaFett said:

    @PhillipH

    Polling verses PB Tory anecdote

    57% told YouGov this week that they were interested in the football.

    VI among football fans

    Lab 45
    Con 31
    Kip 12
    Lib 4

    Lol. Why does that not surprise me
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Apparently the Iraqi government lost control of Fallujah back in January but the media didn't do a very good job of reporting it at the time.

    Fallujah is just 36 miles from Baghdad.


    The International Airport at Baghdad is even nearer.
    Have Isis arrived there?

    That is a known unknown.
    Is that a clever way of saying, "No". I only ask because big chunks of security at Baghdad airport is still provided by contractors employed by, and largely from, the West so if fighting was going on there I think we would have heard about it by now.
    Is "security contractor" a polite couple of words for mercenary ?
    Yes, but one deployed in a defensive rather than offensive role. The UK and US governments have used them very extensively in recent wars do do jobs that would previously have been done by proper armed forces personnel. Contracting out doesn't just apply to local councils, you know.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Last 10 ovs 69/2 RR 6.90 !!!!!!
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @ToryJim

    This weird thing is the latest Tory attack line. Past ones include weak, and dangerous. What's next?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Dr Stephen Fisher's latest projection of GE Seats, based on UKPR's averaging of the most recent polls (showing small movements over the past week) is as follows:

    Con .......... 308 seats (+1 seat)
    Lab ........... 287 seats (+1 seat)
    LibDem ...... 27 seats (-2 seats)
    Other ..........28 seats (unchanged)

    Total .........650 seats

    Looking at his trend chart there's been a gentle decline in his forecast probability of Conservatives becoming the largest party. One presumes this is because the Conservatives are falling behind the average swingback schedule.

    We're now 47 weeks away from having most of the seats declare results, so while there is still plenty of time it is gradually seeping away. His error bars are still very wide: +/- 7.8 on the Conservative share, but I believe they used to be more than 8.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    I'm not exactly pro-Miliband (as may have been noticed), but this really is not the third most important story in the entire world today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27829958
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    This weird thing is the latest Tory attack line. Past ones include weak, and dangerous. What's next?

    Weird is the word that voters have most associated with Ed Miliband since at least 2011:

    http://lordashcroft.com/pdf/18092011_the_leadership_factor.pdf

    "This was the most commonly chosen word or phrase to describe Mr Miliband – several said they felt rather unkind choosing it but that it simply summed up their view.

    As well as being an overall impression, several examples of perceived weirdness were cited, including the contest with his demeanour and the way he spoke, and his apparently reluctant marriage. The decision to stand against his brother, whom nearly all thought was better qualified, also seemed to many to be distinctly odd (as well as being the single best known fact about him).

    “Weird. The whole fight with the brother thing. They should have talked about it in the shed and one of them stood. They should have had an arm wrestle”.

    “It was like Cain and Abel. There was something a bit creepy”.

    “Got married to further his career. That’s weird”.

    “A bit strange. I find him difficult to understand sometimes. A bit of a geek. Not engaging”.

    “Looks and personality matter, and frankly he’s too odd”."

    There's nothing new about this line of attack.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    I'm not exactly pro-Miliband (as may have been noticed), but this really is not the third most important story in the entire world today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27829958

    Quite. Apologising was pretty craven though.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Sean_F said:

    philiph said:

    Mr. H, through backstairs shenanigans, I believe. Bit modern for me, so I don't know much detail.

    Mr. F, I didn't know that.


    Are you telling me that not all Popes were created by the pure will of God expressed through his mortal representatives?

    I'm shocked and disillusioned. Shenanigans at the pinnacle of the Catholic Church. I would have never guessed or known.
    The Borgias were fairly respectable compared to the "pornocracy" that dominated Rome in the 10th century. This was the description given of Pope John XII:-

    "Then, rising up, the cardinal priest Peter testified that he himself had seen John XII celebrate Mass without taking communion. John, bishop of Narni, and John, a cardinal deacon, professed that they themselves saw that a deacon had been ordained in a horse stable, but were unsure of the time. Benedict, cardinal deacon, with other co-deacons and priests, said they knew that he had been paid for ordaining bishops, specifically that he had ordained a ten-year-old bishop in the city of Todi... They testified about his adultery, which they did not see with their own eyes, but nonetheless knew with certainty: he had fornicated with the widow of Rainier, with Stephana his father's concubine, with the widow Anna, and with his own niece, and he made the sacred palace into a whorehouse. They said that he had gone hunting publicly; that he had blinded his confessor Benedict, and thereafter Benedict had died; that he had killed John, cardinal subdeacon, after castrating him; and that he had set fires, girded on a sword, and put on a helmet and cuirass. All, clerics as well as laymen, declared that he had toasted to the devil with wine. They said when playing at dice, he invoked Jupiter, Venus and other demons. They even said he did not celebrate Matins at the canonical hours nor did he make the sign of the cross."

    Julius III was a pretty grim pope almost certainly a pederast who raised his reputed lover to the Cardinalate. This is possibly not as bad as Paul II who is reported to have died whilst being rogered by his page. Although Benedict IX may just take the biscuit as his behaviour was so bad the Vatican couldn't even turn a blind eye including holding orgies in the Lateran palace, rape, murder and other quite un papal behaviour. Makes the modern lot look quite clean.
  • macisbackmacisback Posts: 382
    Ed was right to show his support to the England football team, especially as his rivals were on it, he would have been wide open if he hadn't.

    Why he felt the need to apologise due to a few Labour figures from self pity city is madness. They are not going to turn Tory at the next election, the scousers still hold one of their many mass grudges against them due to Maggie telling them a few home truths, even longer ago than Hillsborough.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited June 2014
    I'd like to apologise to all PBers for having let myself and my party down by visiting ConHome today.

    I realise this will upset and annoy many of you and I apologise if this offends any of you.

    I will only pose with yellow curved fruit in future.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Where were you against Mitchell Johnsons half-baked chucks, Stuart Broad?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    I'm not exactly pro-Miliband (as may have been noticed), but this really is not the third most important story in the entire world today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27829958

    It's currently the BBC's most read story. But I'm sure no one is noticing it.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    ToryJim said:

    Sean_F said:

    philiph said:

    Mr. H, through backstairs shenanigans, I believe. Bit modern for me, so I don't know much detail.

    Mr. F, I didn't know that.


    Are you telling me that not all Popes were created by the pure will of God expressed through his mortal representatives?

    I'm shocked and disillusioned. Shenanigans at the pinnacle of the Catholic Church. I would have never guessed or known.
    The Borgias were fairly respectable compared to the "pornocracy" that dominated Rome in the 10th century. This was the description given of Pope John XII:-

    "Then, rising up, the cardinal priest Peter testified that he himself had seen John XII celebrate Mass without taking communion. John, bishop of Narni, and John, a cardinal deacon, professed that they themselves saw that a deacon had been ordained in a horse stable, but were unsure of the time. Benedict, cardinal deacon, with other co-deacons and priests, said they knew that he had been paid for ordaining bishops, specifically that he had ordained a ten-year-old bishop in the city of Todi... They testified about his adultery, which they did not see with their own eyes, but nonetheless knew with certainty: he had fornicated with the widow of Rainier, with Stephana his father's concubine, with the widow Anna, and with his own niece, and he made the sacred palace into a whorehouse. They said that he had gone hunting publicly; that he had blinded his confessor Benedict, and thereafter Benedict had died; that he had killed John, cardinal subdeacon, after castrating him; and that he had set fires, girded on a sword, and put on a helmet and cuirass. All, clerics as well as laymen, declared that he had toasted to the devil with wine. They said when playing at dice, he invoked Jupiter, Venus and other demons. They even said he did not celebrate Matins at the canonical hours nor did he make the sign of the cross."

    Julius III was a pretty grim pope almost certainly a pederast who raised his reputed lover to the Cardinalate. This is possibly not as bad as Paul II who is reported to have died whilst being rogered by his page. Although Benedict IX may just take the biscuit as his behaviour was so bad the Vatican couldn't even turn a blind eye including holding orgies in the Lateran palace, rape, murder and other quite un papal behaviour. Makes the modern lot look quite clean.
    Even the Hitler Youth pope can't compete with that.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    I'm not exactly pro-Miliband (as may have been noticed), but this really is not the third most important story in the entire world today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27829958

    I agree, Mr. Dancer, but on the bright side the BBC took the opportunity to show that photograph again. The first time I saw it I thought it was a spoof and had been photoshopped - the likeness Wallace was just too close.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    We demand a century partnership between Pudsey and the Burnley Express
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    This weird thing is the latest Tory attack line. Past ones include weak, and dangerous. What's next?

    Weird is the word that voters have most associated with Ed Miliband since at least 2011:

    http://lordashcroft.com/pdf/18092011_the_leadership_factor.pdf

    "This was the most commonly chosen word or phrase to describe Mr Miliband – several said they felt rather unkind choosing it but that it simply summed up their view.

    As well as being an overall impression, several examples of perceived weirdness were cited, including the contest with his demeanour and the way he spoke, and his apparently reluctant marriage. The decision to stand against his brother, whom nearly all thought was better qualified, also seemed to many to be distinctly odd (as well as being the single best known fact about him).

    “Weird. The whole fight with the brother thing. They should have talked about it in the shed and one of them stood. They should have had an arm wrestle”.

    “It was like Cain and Abel. There was something a bit creepy”.

    “Got married to further his career. That’s weird”.

    “A bit strange. I find him difficult to understand sometimes. A bit of a geek. Not engaging”.

    “Looks and personality matter, and frankly he’s too odd”."

    There's nothing new about this line of attack.
    It's the newest line of attack.

    In the past he was weak.

    Then the opposite: dangerous.

    I wonder what will be next.

    Meanwhile, Labour's share on the rise.

    Polling vs PB Tory wishful thinking.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    This weird thing is the latest Tory attack line. Past ones include weak, and dangerous. What's next?

    Weird is the word that voters have most associated with Ed Miliband since at least 2011:

    http://lordashcroft.com/pdf/18092011_the_leadership_factor.pdf

    "This was the most commonly chosen word or phrase to describe Mr Miliband – several said they felt rather unkind choosing it but that it simply summed up their view.

    As well as being an overall impression, several examples of perceived weirdness were cited, including the contest with his demeanour and the way he spoke, and his apparently reluctant marriage. The decision to stand against his brother, whom nearly all thought was better qualified, also seemed to many to be distinctly odd (as well as being the single best known fact about him).

    “Weird. The whole fight with the brother thing. They should have talked about it in the shed and one of them stood. They should have had an arm wrestle”.

    “It was like Cain and Abel. There was something a bit creepy”.

    “Got married to further his career. That’s weird”.

    “A bit strange. I find him difficult to understand sometimes. A bit of a geek. Not engaging”.

    “Looks and personality matter, and frankly he’s too odd”."

    There's nothing new about this line of attack.
    It's the newest line of attack.

    In the past he was weak.

    Then the opposite: dangerous.

    I wonder what will be next.

    Meanwhile, Labour's share on the rise.

    Polling vs PB Tory wishful thinking.
    YouGov, the only poll that counts when making short term trend projections.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    This is an emphatic performance by England at Lord's I could cover Lanka for peanuts and be massively green on any result bar the draw, but I can't be bothered. I'm going to let my long England position ride.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    This weird thing is the latest Tory attack line. Past ones include weak, and dangerous. What's next?

    Weird is the word that voters have most associated with Ed Miliband since at least 2011:

    http://lordashcroft.com/pdf/18092011_the_leadership_factor.pdf

    "This was the most commonly chosen word or phrase to describe Mr Miliband – several said they felt rather unkind choosing it but that it simply summed up their view.

    As well as being an overall impression, several examples of perceived weirdness were cited, including the contest with his demeanour and the way he spoke, and his apparently reluctant marriage. The decision to stand against his brother, whom nearly all thought was better qualified, also seemed to many to be distinctly odd (as well as being the single best known fact about him).

    “Weird. The whole fight with the brother thing. They should have talked about it in the shed and one of them stood. They should have had an arm wrestle”.

    “It was like Cain and Abel. There was something a bit creepy”.

    “Got married to further his career. That’s weird”.

    “A bit strange. I find him difficult to understand sometimes. A bit of a geek. Not engaging”.

    “Looks and personality matter, and frankly he’s too odd”."

    There's nothing new about this line of attack.
    It's the newest line of attack.

    In the past he was weak.

    Then the opposite: dangerous.

    I wonder what will be next.

    Meanwhile, Labour's share on the rise.

    Polling vs PB Tory wishful thinking.
    People are capable of having more than one quality you know..
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    BobaFett said:

    @PhillipH

    Polling verses PB Tory anecdote

    57% told YouGov this week that they were interested in the football.

    VI among football fans

    Lab 45
    Con 31
    Kip 12
    Lib 4

    Clearly the WWC does not like football anymore.

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    I'm not exactly pro-Miliband (as may have been noticed), but this really is not the third most important story in the entire world today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27829958

    I agree, Mr. Dancer, but on the bright side the BBC took the opportunity to show that photograph again. The first time I saw it I thought it was a spoof and had been photoshopped - the likeness Wallace was just too close.
    The Tories relying on playground name calling really is a step down for a once great party...
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    This weird thing is the latest Tory attack line. Past ones include weak, and dangerous. What's next?

    Weird is the word that voters have most associated with Ed Miliband since at least 2011:

    http://lordashcroft.com/pdf/18092011_the_leadership_factor.pdf

    "This was the most commonly chosen word or phrase to describe Mr Miliband – several said they felt rather unkind choosing it but that it simply summed up their view.

    As well as being an overall impression, several examples of perceived weirdness were cited, including the contest with his demeanour and the way he spoke, and his apparently reluctant marriage. The decision to stand against his brother, whom nearly all thought was better qualified, also seemed to many to be distinctly odd (as well as being the single best known fact about him).

    “Weird. The whole fight with the brother thing. They should have talked about it in the shed and one of them stood. They should have had an arm wrestle”.

    “It was like Cain and Abel. There was something a bit creepy”.

    “Got married to further his career. That’s weird”.

    “A bit strange. I find him difficult to understand sometimes. A bit of a geek. Not engaging”.

    “Looks and personality matter, and frankly he’s too odd”."

    There's nothing new about this line of attack.
    It's the newest line of attack.

    In the past he was weak.

    Then the opposite: dangerous.

    I wonder what will be next.

    Meanwhile, Labour's share on the rise.

    Polling vs PB Tory wishful thinking.
    I've given you direct evidence from 2011 that this is a long-running voter concern and you've just chosen to ignore it completely. That speaks volumes about you.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    I'd like to apologise to all PBers for having let myself and my party down by visiting ConHome today.

    I realise this will upset and annoy many of you and I apologise if this offends any of you.

    I will only pose with yellow curved fruit in future.

    Yet another post which shows we need to like button back. Nice one, Mr. Heap, gave me the first belly laugh of the day.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Slack

    It's hard to reconcile being both weak and dangerous. Unless they are a bridge.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    BobaFett said:

    I'm not exactly pro-Miliband (as may have been noticed), but this really is not the third most important story in the entire world today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27829958

    I agree, Mr. Dancer, but on the bright side the BBC took the opportunity to show that photograph again. The first time I saw it I thought it was a spoof and had been photoshopped - the likeness Wallace was just too close.
    The Tories relying on playground name calling really is a step down for a once great party...
    Were just trying to find some common ground with the brides of McBride.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PickardJE: 98% of Labour grassroots "hate" slogan “Hardworking Britain Better Off” http://t.co/b93jeTyLrV

    @PickardJE: "It suggests Labour only supports those in paid work and does not value the old, the young, the sick, the carers, the disabled, jobless"
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited June 2014
    Stuart Broad, the 'all rounder' is gone
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Llama, I sympathise with Ed Miliband's lack of photogenic appeal.

    Mr. Fett, 'weird' has been there since the start, and it's as much by the electorate as Miliband's political opponents. A leadership campaign slogan like "Ed speaks human" doesn't exactly paint him as a normal fellow.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    BobaFett said:

    @Slack

    It's hard to reconcile being both weak and dangerous. Unless they are a bridge.

    Or Jeremy Hunt
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: 98% of Labour grassroots "hate" slogan “Hardworking Britain Better Off” http://t.co/b93jeTyLrV

    @PickardJE: "It suggests Labour only supports those in paid work and does not value the old, the young, the sick, the carers, the disabled, jobless"

    They don't care, none of them do. Labour give handouts to secure votes, not to benefit the unfortunate. They also need to bribe a few tax payers to secure a majority as well.
    The Tories bribe businesses and do less damage to the economy in general. Hence vote Tory.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. P, someone should point out that a great many disabled people do have jobs.

    Certainly didn't slow down Alexander, Hannibal or Caesar.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    edited June 2014
    Sean_F said:

    philiph said:

    Mr. H, through backstairs shenanigans, I believe. Bit modern for me, so I don't know much detail.

    Mr. F, I didn't know that.


    Are you telling me that not all Popes were created by the pure will of God expressed through his mortal representatives?

    I'm shocked and disillusioned. Shenanigans at the pinnacle of the Catholic Church. I would have never guessed or known.
    The Borgias were fairly respectable compared to the "pornocracy" that dominated Rome in the 10th century. This was the description given of Pope John XII:-

    "Then, rising up, the cardinal priest Peter testified that he himself had seen John XII celebrate Mass without taking communion. John, bishop of Narni, and John, a cardinal deacon, professed that they themselves saw that a deacon had been ordained in a horse stable, but were unsure of the time. Benedict, cardinal deacon, with other co-deacons and priests, said they knew that he had been paid for ordaining bishops, specifically that he had ordained a ten-year-old bishop in the city of Todi... They testified about his adultery, which they did not see with their own eyes, but nonetheless knew with certainty: he had fornicated with the widow of Rainier, with Stephana his father's concubine, with the widow Anna, and with his own niece, and he made the sacred palace into a whorehouse. They said that he had gone hunting publicly; that he had blinded his confessor Benedict, and thereafter Benedict had died; that he had killed John, cardinal subdeacon, after castrating him; and that he had set fires, girded on a sword, and put on a helmet and cuirass. All, clerics as well as laymen, declared that he had toasted to the devil with wine. They said when playing at dice, he invoked Jupiter, Venus and other demons. They even said he did not celebrate Matins at the canonical hours nor did he make the sign of the cross."

    Anyone interested in Papal shenanigans could do worse than invest in a copy of Memoirs of a Gnostic Dwarf, the first chapter of which you can read here:

    http://www.dedalusbooks.com/our-books/chapter.php?id=00000023&id2=7

    "This morning His Holiness summoned me to read to him from St Augustine, while the physician applied unguents and salves to his suppurating arse; one in particular, which was apparently concocted from virgin's piss (where did they find a virgin in Rome?)..."

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    BobaFett said:

    @Slack

    It's hard to reconcile being both weak and dangerous. Unless they are a bridge.

    Still want to discuss sample sizes?

    You've become very quiet on that.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited June 2014

    Mr. P, someone should point out that a great many disabled people do have jobs.

    Certainly didn't slow down Alexander, Hannibal or Caesar.

    Some of us, whom ATOS wrote off as incapable of working, decided screw that and are making a go of it.
    Not everyone with a disability is out of work.

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    BobaFett said:

    I'm not exactly pro-Miliband (as may have been noticed), but this really is not the third most important story in the entire world today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27829958

    I agree, Mr. Dancer, but on the bright side the BBC took the opportunity to show that photograph again. The first time I saw it I thought it was a spoof and had been photoshopped - the likeness Wallace was just too close.
    The Tories relying on playground name calling really is a step down for a once great party...
    If you say so, Mr. Fett. By the way you said earlier that you prefer polling to wishful thinking. Now, I follow the polls closer than 98% of the population, but I am at a loss to see any particularly good news for Labour in the last month or so or even a significant trend. The figures have been rehearsed on here this morning. So I wonder what you think is going on that I am missing.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Mr. P, someone should point out that a great many disabled people do have jobs.

    Certainly didn't slow down Alexander, Hannibal or Caesar.

    Or David Blunkett!!
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @antifrank

    An unnecessarily waspish yet sadly typical response from you. Concern? Evidence? That they think he is a bit weird is not necessarily a concern, is it? Anyway, I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.

    Sayonara!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Owls, well, quite. Not a Blunkett fan, but he's done very well and proven a blind chap can aspire to high political office.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    BobaFett said:

    I'm not exactly pro-Miliband (as may have been noticed), but this really is not the third most important story in the entire world today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27829958

    I agree, Mr. Dancer, but on the bright side the BBC took the opportunity to show that photograph again. The first time I saw it I thought it was a spoof and had been photoshopped - the likeness Wallace was just too close.
    The Tories relying on playground name calling really is a step down for a once great party...
    If you say so, Mr. Fett. By the way you said earlier that you prefer polling to wishful thinking. Now, I follow the polls closer than 98% of the population, but I am at a loss to see any particularly good news for Labour in the last month or so or even a significant trend. The figures have been rehearsed on here this morning. So I wonder what you think is going on that I am missing.
    It's funny, when I did some analysis showing how Labour's share of the vote and lead had fallen by nearly 7% in a year, I was accused of reading too much into the polls.

    But a 1.3% swing to Labour in the last month is a trend.

    It's a funny old world.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited June 2014
    BobaFett said:


    It's the newest line of attack.

    In the past he was weak.

    Then the opposite: dangerous.

    Why on earth do you think 'weak' and 'dangerous' are opposites? They are two aspects of the same failing - naive, superficial, populist, bends with the wind, changes his mind.

    I'd have thought 'weak, weird and dangerous' was a pretty fair assessment of Ed. In the event of a Miliband government, I am quite certain that the overwhelming majority in the country will agree within much the same timescale that their French counterparts did in respect of his hero, François Hollande.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    BobaFett said:

    @antifrank



    Sayonara!

    onara
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    @Slack

    It's hard to reconcile being both weak and dangerous. Unless they are a bridge.

    Still want to discuss sample sizes?

    You've become very quiet on that.
    I replied to you earlier about it!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Pulpstar said:

    I note that (western) syria is out the news almost completely at the moment. But there is a war on between Assad and rebel forces still.

    Assad well on top at the moment I assume ?

    A not obviously biased site summarising the position is here:
    http://www.syriadeeply.org/articles/2014/06/5623/syria-executive-summary-613/

    Not much news militarily since the Government retook Homs.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    I'm not exactly pro-Miliband (as may have been noticed), but this really is not the third most important story in the entire world today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27829958

    I agree, Mr. Dancer, but on the bright side the BBC took the opportunity to show that photograph again. The first time I saw it I thought it was a spoof and had been photoshopped - the likeness Wallace was just too close.
    The Tories relying on playground name calling really is a step down for a once great party...
    If you say so, Mr. Fett. By the way you said earlier that you prefer polling to wishful thinking. Now, I follow the polls closer than 98% of the population, but I am at a loss to see any particularly good news for Labour in the last month or so or even a significant trend. The figures have been rehearsed on here this morning. So I wonder what you think is going on that I am missing.
    A simple read of UKPR will show you!

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    BobaFett said:

    @Slack

    It's hard to reconcile being both weak and dangerous. Unless they are a bridge.

    Joffery was both weak and dangerous...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    @Slack

    It's hard to reconcile being both weak and dangerous. Unless they are a bridge.

    Still want to discuss sample sizes?

    You've become very quiet on that.
    I replied to you earlier about it!
    About how ICM's much smaller sample size was more accurate the YouGov's mahoosive sample size?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    I'm not exactly pro-Miliband (as may have been noticed), but this really is not the third most important story in the entire world today:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27829958

    I agree, Mr. Dancer, but on the bright side the BBC took the opportunity to show that photograph again. The first time I saw it I thought it was a spoof and had been photoshopped - the likeness Wallace was just too close.
    The Tories relying on playground name calling really is a step down for a once great party...
    If you say so, Mr. Fett. By the way you said earlier that you prefer polling to wishful thinking. Now, I follow the polls closer than 98% of the population, but I am at a loss to see any particularly good news for Labour in the last month or so or even a significant trend. The figures have been rehearsed on here this morning. So I wonder what you think is going on that I am missing.
    A simple read of UKPR will show you!

    No, I want to know what you think. You do have opinions of your own, don't you? Why not share them with us rather than point us to what someone else thinks?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    BobaFett said:

    @antifrank

    An unnecessarily waspish yet sadly typical response from you. Concern? Evidence? That they think he is a bit weird is not necessarily a concern, is it? Anyway, I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.

    Sayonara!

    Since you still evidently haven't read the words that I quoted, you're beyond help.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The labour posters trumpeting the party's poll performance aren't wrong, but are undermined as much as anything else by their own side.

    It's the likes of labourlist and the staggers that are wondering if Ed's heading for defeat.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    LabourList @LabourList

    Miliband "sorry to those who feel offended" by Sun photo http://labli.st/SSPA5T


    alexmassie @alexmassie

    Has Miliband really apologised for being photographed with The Sun? The man plumbs fresh depths of muppetry. Whatever next?


  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited June 2014



    The man plumbs fresh depths of muppetry.

    The man's a plum.

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    BobaFett said:


    It's the newest line of attack.

    In the past he was weak.

    Then the opposite: dangerous.

    Why on earth do you think 'weak' and 'dangerous' are opposites? They are two aspects of the same failing - naive, superficial, populist, bends with the wind, changes his mind.

    I'd have thought 'weak, weird and dangerous' was a pretty fair assessment of Ed. In the event of a Miliband government, I am quite certain that the overwhelming majority in the country will agree within much the same timescale that their French counterparts did in respect of his hero, François Hollande.
    You are dealing with a chap who understands full well the dangers of a political leader being ridiculed by the press, the polls and by political opponents. Don't expect rationality, panic is setting in as Ed, blunders from one mishap to the next.

    http://order-order.com/2014/06/12/ed-spilliband/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959


    LabourList @LabourList

    Miliband "sorry to those who feel offended" by Sun photo http://labli.st/SSPA5T


    alexmassie @alexmassie

    Has Miliband really apologised for being photographed with The Sun? The man plumbs fresh depths of muppetry. Whatever next?


    I'm expecting him to soon say "the quiet man is here to stay, and he's turning up the volume."
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited June 2014
    ''Don't expect rationality, panic is setting in as Ed, blunders from one mishap to the next.''

    But the polls! the polls I tell you! (copyright Bobafett).
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    BobaFett said:

    @ToryJim

    This weird thing is the latest Tory attack line. Past ones include weak, and dangerous. What's next?

    Weird is the word that voters have most associated with Ed Miliband since at least 2011:

    http://lordashcroft.com/pdf/18092011_the_leadership_factor.pdf

    "This was the most commonly chosen word or phrase to describe Mr Miliband – several said they felt rather unkind choosing it but that it simply summed up their view.

    As well as being an overall impression, several examples of perceived weirdness were cited, including the contest with his demeanour and the way he spoke, and his apparently reluctant marriage. The decision to stand against his brother, whom nearly all thought was better qualified, also seemed to many to be distinctly odd (as well as being the single best known fact about him).

    “Weird. The whole fight with the brother thing. They should have talked about it in the shed and one of them stood. They should have had an arm wrestle”.

    “It was like Cain and Abel. There was something a bit creepy”.

    “Got married to further his career. That’s weird”.

    “A bit strange. I find him difficult to understand sometimes. A bit of a geek. Not engaging”.

    “Looks and personality matter, and frankly he’s too odd”."

    There's nothing new about this line of attack.
    It's the newest line of attack.

    In the past he was weak.

    Then the opposite: dangerous.

    I wonder what will be next.

    Meanwhile, Labour's share on the rise.

    Polling vs PB Tory wishful thinking.
    YouGov, the only poll that counts when making short term trend projections.
    Overstates Labour by 2.1% says OGH

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    taffys said:

    ''Don't expect rationality, panic is setting in as Ed, blunders from one mishap to the next.''

    But the polls! the polls I tell you! (copyright Bobafett).

    But the polls! the polls I tell you! (copyright Bobafett)

    But I am not going to tell you what I think the polls mean (copyright Bobafett)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    The man's a plum.

    @hugorifkind: Lock him in a small windowless room with no link to the outside world and I do believe Ed Miliband could still make a public fool of himself

    @hugorifkind: Schroedinger's Prat, if you like.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited June 2014
    I'm not wasting my money by backing Matt Hancock as next tory leader at 33/1 am I?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Useless fact about Angelina Jolie:

    http://www.boomsbeat.com/articles/112/20140114/50-interesting-facts-about-angelina-jolie.htm

    "After two years of enrolment, Angelina dropped out of her acting class from Lee Strasberg Theatre Institute to pursue her desire of becoming an undertaker or a funeral director. She went on to study embalming."
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121


    LabourList @LabourList

    Miliband "sorry to those who feel offended" by Sun photo http://labli.st/SSPA5T


    alexmassie @alexmassie

    Has Miliband really apologised for being photographed with The Sun? The man plumbs fresh depths of muppetry. Whatever next?

    I wish to reassure my fellow PBers that Ed has never posed with a copy of the Sunil or the Sunil on Sunday!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    My football bets today, may they be as profitable as my tips yesterday

    Cameroon to beat Mexico

    Netherlands to beat Spain

    Australia to beat Chile.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Miliband's half-apology over the Sun photo will please no one

    The Labour leader has been left looking like a man trying to have it both ways.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/06/milibands-half-apology-over-sun-photo-will-please-no-one
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Bacary Sagna signs for Citeh.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Calling Ed Miliband weird is pretty unfortunate. Labelling someone peculiar because they do not look, speak, act or whatever in a certain way strikes me as being very unBritish. Hopefully the new classes can deal with it. But clearly it's too late for a fair few of my countrymen.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    I disagree with the article.
    It was 1970 Powell giveth, 1974 Powell taketh away.
    You can easily see it in Powell's area.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    taffys said:

    The labour posters trumpeting the party's poll performance aren't wrong, but are undermined as much as anything else by their own side.

    It's the likes of labourlist and the staggers that are wondering if Ed's heading for defeat.

    He is certainly not heading for outright victory, whatever the polls say. And he is a drag on the Labour vote.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    The other point about the Sun fiasco is that it sheds a curious light on Ed's advisers and spinners. You'd have thought that they - and he - would have seen the pitfalls in advance. Surely it should have been obvious he'd look a right berk holding a copy of the Sun like someone in a hostage photo. And you'd expect someone at the top of the Labour machine would have said, 'Hang on, a Murdoch paper? After what we've said about Murdoch? And the Sun, when Hillborough is a live issue?'

    It would never have happened in Alastair Campbell's day.
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    edited June 2014
    The Queen's Birthday Honours are released tonight but I have seen or heard no leaks of names ahead of it which is quite unusual
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    The other point about the Sun fiasco is that it sheds a curious light on Ed's advisers and spinners. You'd have thought that they - and he - would have seen the pitfalls in advance. Surely it should have been obvious he'd look a right berk holding a copy of the Sun like someone in a hostage photo. And you'd expect someone at the top of the Labour machine would have said, 'Hang on, a Murdoch paper? After what we've said about Murdoch? And the Sun, when Hillborough is a live issue?'

    It would never have happened in Alastair Campbell's day.

    If Alastair Campbell was in charge today, Ed would be calling for the invasion of Iraq, saying we're 45mins away from ISIS taking Britain.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    marke09 said:

    The Queen's Birthday Honours are released tonight but I have seen or heard no leaks of names ahead of it which is quite unusual

    Only one I've seen is Dame Maggie Smith getting upgraded to a Companion of Honour
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    Retweeted by Stig Abell
    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 1m

    Re Ed Mili 'apology'; his spokesman confirms it isn't for doing Sun pic and he doesn't regret it. Just for causing any offence, if it did...
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    And he is a drag on the Labour vote.

    The Liverpool thing does seem a bit curious. It's not like they are going to vote for anybody else in that area.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    The other point about the Sun fiasco is that it sheds a curious light on Ed's advisers and spinners. You'd have thought that they - and he - would have seen the pitfalls in advance. Surely it should have been obvious he'd look a right berk holding a copy of the Sun like someone in a hostage photo. And you'd expect someone at the top of the Labour machine would have said, 'Hang on, a Murdoch paper? After what we've said about Murdoch? And the Sun, when Hillborough is a live issue?'

    It would never have happened in Alastair Campbell's day.

    Couldn't Ed just have used a bit of common sense/political nous ?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. 09, that's weird.

    What I did was right, I do not resile from it, and I apologise.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    The other point about the Sun fiasco is that it sheds a curious light on Ed's advisers and spinners. You'd have thought that they - and he - would have seen the pitfalls in advance. Surely it should have been obvious he'd look a right berk holding a copy of the Sun like someone in a hostage photo. And you'd expect someone at the top of the Labour machine would have said, 'Hang on, a Murdoch paper? After what we've said about Murdoch? And the Sun, when Hillborough is a live issue?'

    It would never have happened in Alastair Campbell's day.

    No, we had the Iraq fiasco instead....
This discussion has been closed.