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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934


    TBF - Given Balls' toxic ratings, where he trails Osborne, the most popular Tory chancellor since Lawson, you can understand why Cable might think Ed Miliband ditch Ed Balls.

    Given how poor Vince has been as a Minister, the idea of him as CotE is only slightly less digestive-tract-troubling than Ed Balls....
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Mr. Divvie, I've heard it said that there's a much shorter distance between those are vehemently for or against something than those who simply don't care. I'm not quite as surprised as you.

    It seems Islam's quite popular, and has an increasing number of white British converts, perhaps because of its lack of uncertainty and trying to square circles (unlike, for example, the Anglican Church which is in a real muddle over gay and female clergy).

    It's a common phenomenon in fanatics. Not so long ago Alex Salmond was a passionate advocate of the euro, now the pound sterling has no greater champion.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    dr_spyn said:

    @Easterross I would be surprised if England do not lose to Italy or Uruguay.

    Though some of the younger players might see the World Cup as an opportunity to show that they are better than the shower who played in South Africa. I was glad I did not watch the match live v Germany.

    I would be pleasantly surprised if they did go beyond the Group Stage but they aren't really good enough.

    I think this is the most exciting England team in a long while. Young player who like showing off their skills (Sturridge, Welbeck, Lallana, Barkley, Wilshere & The Ox) with seasoned pro's like Gerrard and Rooney.

    A pity politics meant no JT alongside Cahill.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958


    TBF - Given Balls' toxic ratings, where he trails Osborne, the most popular Tory chancellor since Lawson, you can understand why Cable might think Ed Miliband ditch Ed Balls.

    Given how poor Vince has been as a Minister, the idea of him as CotE is only slightly less digestive-tract-troubling than Ed Balls....
    He's been a great success with Royal Mail privitisation and student fees.

    He is the Hannibal of the political world.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934



    Worthy of Alan Shearer. I've come to expect more from you. Gutted.

    Sick as a parrot?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    It might be possible for the west to get involved in military action against ISIS with the cover of the UN, since Iraq is asking for UN military help and Al Qaeda has no UN allies it is possible to do it.
    No one will critizise or veto UN military action to defend the middle east from islamic terrorists.

    Anyway the clock is ticking, Iraq is becoming desperate for military aid from anyone, if the west refuses others will fill the gap.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,561
    ToryJim said:



    I don't demur, my parents were not political obsessives but they encouraged us all to think and to debate. Every Sunday lunch was followed by a 2-3 hour discussion on every topic you could imagine. Often not politics but faith, science, morality which all feed in.

    Yes, same here. We used to watch TV together - the original 26-part Forsyte Saga was a favourite - and chew over what we thought of the characters and their decisions.

    Only snag was that really they seemed better company than my age group, so I ended prematurely middle-aged, more comfortable with them and their friends than with teenagers hoping for a good piss-up. In retrospect I'd probably have liked a bit of the latter too.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    isam said:



    A pity politics meant no JT alongside Cahill.

    Expect to see him in the stands all kitted out anyway.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039



    Worthy of Alan Shearer. I've come to expect more from you. Gutted.

    Sick as a parrot?
    It's a thread of two halves - Neil won't be happy with the way it's gone so far out there, but it's still all to play for if he gets stuck in.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    "The narrowing in Labour’s lead over the past year is entirely the result of Labour losing support, not of the Conservatives gaining it."

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100275660/memo-to-tory-optimists-labour-is-losing-support-but-youre-not-gaining-it/

    Except that analysis is false.

    Take the changes with the ICM poll in May, with the ICM poll in May 2013.

    Changes since then, Con +3, Lab -3, LD -2, UKIP +3

    Or say, since November, which was six months prior, Con +3, Lab -7, LD nc, UKIP +4
    The Conservatives movement in both those examples is within MoE.

    "...while Labour’s support has been in decline for the last six to nine months (having plateaued for a period before that) underlying Conservative support has remained incredibly stable around the 31% level.

    In fact, setting aside the slight slump around the time of the last UKIP surge at the 2013 local elections, their standing with the electorate has been flat since its crash of April 2012 around the time of the ‘omnishambles’ budget. "

    http://sotonpolitics.org/2014/06/10/polling-observatory-37-no-westminster-polling-aftershock-from-european-parliament-earthquake/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Miss DiCanio, well, quite.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,986

    stodge said:

    With the absent Sinn Fein MPs (four or perhaps five), the actual number of seats for a majority would be 322 or 323 which is the "target" for the Conservative and Labour parties to achieve either alone or with help.

    I suspect we won't see a Coalition on the 2010-15 model after the next GE. IF no single Party can form a majority, then it will either be S&C or the largest Party will form a minority administration and dare the others to trigger a second election.

    A minority Labour Government with S&C from the LDs and a few others doesn't look the most unlikely outcome and neither does a minority Conservative Government with S&C provided by the DUP.

    Remember that one of the reasons for Cameron forming a Coalition with the Lib Dems in 2010 was to force Brown to accept that the game was up.

    If there is a Hung Parliament in 2015 then Cameron will be the incumbent PM, and so the process of getting to a minority Labour government is not the simplest.
    There were lots of reasons why Cameron went into Coalition with the LDs in 2010 - it turned out intentionally or otherwise to be a masterstroke by the way.

    Here I am going to disagree fundamentally with OGH and it's rare this happens. Had the negotiations between the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats failed on the Monday evening, what would have happened ?

    There are two scenarios - either, the Lib Dems would have cut a deal with Labour allowing Brown to continue (pro tem) as Prime Minister or the Liberal Democrats would have walked away. Obviously, had the latter happened, Clegg would have been excoriated by the Conservative press but the sense of panic over Greece had eased by the Monday evening.

    The question I can't answer is whether Brown (despite the Parliamentary numbers) could have believed it would be possible to get a Queen's Speech through the Commons - the LDs would have had to vote FOR it not simply abstain. I suspect at that point he would have thrown in the towel and Cameron would have been asked to form a minority administration.

    He then would have the task of producing a Queen's Speech which (I suspect) would have passed easily on the abstention of both Labour and the Lib Dems (neither of whom wanted a second election).

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Speedy said:

    It might be possible for the west to get involved in military action against ISIS with the cover of the UN, since Iraq is asking for UN military help and Al Qaeda has no UN allies it is possible to do it.
    No one will critizise or veto UN military action to defend the middle east from islamic terrorists.

    Anyway the clock is ticking, Iraq is becoming desperate for military aid from anyone, if the west refuses others will fill the gap.

    AL Qaeda said that ISIS was "too extreme " !
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Neil said:

    Tories plotting to form a coalition with Northern Ireland MPs to avoid sharing power again with Clegg

    EXCLUSIVE: Senior Tories examining plan to form a government with DUP

    David Cameron needs to win more than 316 seats to secure outright majority

    If he falls just short, could rely on 8 Democratic Unionist MPs to take power

    Polls suggest a narrow result is possible at the 2015 general election

    Around 40 Tory MPs are ready to block a second coalition with Lib Dems

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653992/Tories-plotting-form-coalition-Northern-Ireland-MPs-avoid-sharing-power-Clegg.html

    Surely the Tories are far too principled to spend 5 years ramming through England only legislation on the back on Northern Irish votes? ;)
    West Lothian question will be replaced by the Derry question ?
    First we must answer whether this is the Derry or the Londonderry question..
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    One thing might be certain, oil will go through the roof again.

    The oil price appears to be down on the day.
    Iraq is the world's 7th largest oil producer and it's neighbouring Saudi Arabia, Iran and Kuwait, if Iraq falls it's other oil rich neighbours will be dragged in the war.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Pulpstar said:

    Speedy said:

    It might be possible for the west to get involved in military action against ISIS with the cover of the UN, since Iraq is asking for UN military help and Al Qaeda has no UN allies it is possible to do it.
    No one will critizise or veto UN military action to defend the middle east from islamic terrorists.

    Anyway the clock is ticking, Iraq is becoming desperate for military aid from anyone, if the west refuses others will fill the gap.

    AL Qaeda said that ISIS was "too extreme " !
    If even they say they are too extreme, the west sure has a problem.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    Re the JackW 9am forecast:

    This is forecasting a net gain of 9 Con seats - yet the "dozen" has two Con losses and no Con gains.

    So where are the Con gains forecast to arise?

    And does this not suggest that the "dozen" is not doing its job as it appears to be missing where the Con gains are forecast to arise.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958

    "The narrowing in Labour’s lead over the past year is entirely the result of Labour losing support, not of the Conservatives gaining it."

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100275660/memo-to-tory-optimists-labour-is-losing-support-but-youre-not-gaining-it/

    Except that analysis is false.

    Take the changes with the ICM poll in May, with the ICM poll in May 2013.

    Changes since then, Con +3, Lab -3, LD -2, UKIP +3

    Or say, since November, which was six months prior, Con +3, Lab -7, LD nc, UKIP +4
    The Conservatives movement in both those examples is within MoE.

    "...while Labour’s support has been in decline for the last six to nine months (having plateaued for a period before that) underlying Conservative support has remained incredibly stable around the 31% level.

    In fact, setting aside the slight slump around the time of the last UKIP surge at the 2013 local elections, their standing with the electorate has been flat since its crash of April 2012 around the time of the ‘omnishambles’ budget. "

    http://sotonpolitics.org/2014/06/10/polling-observatory-37-no-westminster-polling-aftershock-from-european-parliament-earthquake/
    Well they have been wrong in their analysis before

    It seems our speculation about a possible “voteless recovery” last month may have been premature.

    http://blog.policy.manchester.ac.uk/polling-observatory/2014/04/polling-observatory-35-march-2014-politics-fast-and-slow/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    edited June 2014



    Worthy of Alan Shearer. I've come to expect more from you. Gutted.

    Sick as a parrot?
    It's a thread of two halves - Neil won't be happy with the way it's gone so far out there, but it's still all to play for if he gets stuck in.



    Worthy of Alan Shearer. I've come to expect more from you. Gutted.

    Sick as a parrot?
    It's a thread of two halves - Neil won't be happy with the way it's gone so far out there, but it's still all to play for if he gets stuck in.
    So long as he doesn't turn into Jack Charlton or John Aldridge.

    Includes NSFW language

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSJVL74OlQk
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    How the feck does someone suspected of importing 50 kilos of heroin into this country get let out on bail? What does it take to get remanded in custody these days? Writing something rude on Twitter?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-27777201

    Wouldn't have happened in Popeye Doyle's day....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Is it me or does the country of Ireland do better when there's an Englishman in charge/ruling the place?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited June 2014

    Given how poor Vince has been as a Minister, the idea of him as CotE is only slightly less digestive-tract-troubling than Ed Balls....

    True, but it looks as though Nick Clegg is waiting for the right moment to break the bad news to Vince:

    Rowena Mason ‏@rowenamason: Nick Clegg says there will be an announcement very soon on whether Lib Dem economics spokesman will be Danny Alexander or Vince Cable

    twitter.com/rowenamason/status/475979034246258688
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    MikeL said:

    Re the JackW 9am forecast:

    This is forecasting a net gain of 9 Con seats - yet the "dozen" has two Con losses and no Con gains.

    So where are the Con gains forecast to arise?

    And does this not suggest that the "dozen" is not doing its job as it appears to be missing where the Con gains are forecast to arise.

    LD > Con plus some Con > Lab

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Isam

    Terry is a dressing room trouble maker. England better without him.

    We don't want cliques in the team.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Is it me or does the country of Ireland do better when there's an Englishman in charge/ruling the place?

    I'm trying to think of a country that doesn't ;)
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Is it me or does the country of Ireland do better when there's an Englishman in charge/ruling the place?

    I'm not sure that 1801 - 1922 was the most successful period Ireland ever knew containing as it did a disastrous famine and a halving of its population from peak to trough.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,334
    edited June 2014

    Carnyx said:




    Neil said:

    Tories plotting to form a coalition with Northern Ireland MPs to avoid sharing power again with Clegg

    EXCLUSIVE: Senior Tories examining plan to form a government with DUP

    David Cameron needs to win more than 316 seats to secure outright majority

    If he falls just short, could rely on 8 Democratic Unionist MPs to take power

    Polls suggest a narrow result is possible at the 2015 general election

    Around 40 Tory MPs are ready to block a second coalition with Lib Dems

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653992/Tories-plotting-form-coalition-Northern-Ireland-MPs-avoid-sharing-power-Clegg.html

    Surely the Tories are far too principled to spend 5 years ramming through England only legislation on the back on Northern Irish votes? ;)
    Not to mention legislation which affects Wales and Scotland too. And the DUP don't have seats in the rest of the UK (nor the Tories in NI). I will be very interested to see how they defend that.
    Funny. Are you happy with Scottish MP's having the power to vote for things that effect England but not Scotland?
    Not intended to be funny, but genuine curiosity (and very real surprise if [edit] a Tory-DUP alliance happens). I was writing in full and conscious awareness of the indignation on PB about that very situation [edit: in Scotland] and recent discussions, from which one conclusion was that it was overwhelmingly a problem with Labour and LD MPs and not at all with the SNP or Mr Mundell (self-denying ordinances in both cases). At least Labour claims to be a One Nation party and its MPs are not memebers of a Scottish Labour party but a UK-wide party. How odd it would be if the Tories then rely on a completely non-Great British party [NB: I say GB in the geographical sense, not British in the political).

    As for your question, the other conclusion was that it's all a mess. Of course, independence for Scotland conclusively resolves the WLQ.


  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Neil

    I must have been away when Moniker did funny put downs.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    @Speedy I've had a brief look at the Syrian map - it appears that ISIS and the Syrian Gov't are not really fighting each other, rather ISIS is fighting the Kurd north and the Syrian Gov't are fighting the Free Syrian Army.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Neil said:

    Is it me or does the country of Ireland do better when there's an Englishman in charge/ruling the place?

    I'm not sure that 1801 - 1922 was the most successful period Ireland ever knew containing as it did a disastrous famine and a halving of its population from peak to trough.

    You're so negative, stop focussing on the negatives.

    Who would prefer running the country, some Brit or Charles Haughey?
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,549
    edited June 2014
    If there is a hung parliament in 2015, in practice they have until March 2016 to organise a Government. This is because technically a Finance Bill is not needed until then as income tax will be collected for 2015-2016, but new finance measures will need to be put before parliament to collect income tax in 2016-2017.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Twitter has introduced hash flags so putting a hashtag with your three letter country code will display the flag. Great idea.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/twitter/10889444/Twitter-introduces-hashflags-for-World-Cup-tweets.html
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Neil said:

    Is it me or does the country of Ireland do better when there's an Englishman in charge/ruling the place?

    I'm not sure that 1801 - 1922 was the most successful period Ireland ever knew containing as it did a disastrous famine and a halving of its population from peak to trough.

    Yes - if they had put some effort in they could have reached 3/4....

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    Who would prefer running the country, some Brit or Charles Haughey?

    Well Charles Haughey is dead so the damage he could do now is limited.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Neil said:

    Is it me or does the country of Ireland do better when there's an Englishman in charge/ruling the place?

    I'm not sure that 1801 - 1922 was the most successful period Ireland ever knew containing as it did a disastrous famine and a halving of its population from peak to trough.

    I visited Kilmainham gaol a few years back, was an interesting experience.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    If there is a hung parliament in 2015, in practice they have until March 2016 to organise a Government. This is because technically a Finance Bill is not needed until then as income tax will be collected for 2015-2016, but new finance measures will need to be put before parliament to collect income tax in 2016-2017.

    Wont a Government need a Queen's Speech and a vote on that rather sooner than March 2016?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Neil said:


    Who would prefer running the country, some Brit or Charles Haughey?

    Well Charles Haughey is dead so the damage he could do now is limited.
    Ok, a Brit or Brian Cowan?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    If there is a hung parliament in 2015, in practice they have until March 2016 to organise a Government. This is because technically a Finance Bill is not needed until then as income tax will be collected for 2015-2016, but new finance measures will need to be put before parliament to collect income tax in 2016-2017.

    A deal will be done by then, Clegg's head on a platter will be Ed's price or else a second coalition.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Wasn't there supposed to be a reshuffle today btw?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:

    Is it me or does the country of Ireland do better when there's an Englishman in charge/ruling the place?

    I'm not sure that 1801 - 1922 was the most successful period Ireland ever knew containing as it did a disastrous famine and a halving of its population from peak to trough.

    Yes - if they had put some effort in they could have reached 3/4....

    Still wouldnt have been enough emigrants to keep Rangers afloat though.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited June 2014
    It's time to pop the champagne corks. Crossover!

    NIESR, not the most right wing of thinktanks and economic analysts, has called the crossover:

    Britain’s strengthening recovery has probably pushed the economy back above its pre-crisis level, ending the longest period of below-peak output in a century.

    The National Institute of Economic and Social Research estimates gross domestic product rose 0.9 percent in the three months through May. That puts it about 0.2 percent above where it was in January 2008, Niesr said in a monthly report today.
    [Bloomberg]

    Poor surby. His final hopes must now be resting on England's performance in the World Cup.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141

    Neil said:


    Who would prefer running the country, some Brit or Charles Haughey?

    Well Charles Haughey is dead so the damage he could do now is limited.
    Ok, a Brit or Brian Cowan?
    Gordon Brown or Brian Cowan should be the specific options.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Sky News saying Uefa are having a go at Blatter over his racism outburst.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    AveryLP said:

    It's time to pop the champagne corks. Crossover!

    NIESR, not the most right wing of thinktanks and economic analysts, has called the crossover:

    Britain’s strengthening recovery has probably pushed the economy back above its pre-crisis level, ending the longest period of below-peak output in a century.

    The National Institute of Economic and Social Research estimates gross domestic product rose 0.9 percent in the three months through May. That puts it about 0.2 percent above where it was in January 2008, Niesr said in a monthly report today.
    [Bloomberg]

    Poor surby. His final hopes must now be resting on England's performance in the World Cup.

    Bloody time it did ! The slowest to do so ?
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Lennon said:

    Thanks all.

    @Tissue Price - I can't see England beating Costa Rica (or the other two either). I can see England coming home without winning a game. I'd like to be wrong, but defeat at the hands of Italy and Uruguay seems nailed on. If at that point England are already eliminated, then they might scrape a win against whomever they play last, although if they play Italy or Uruguay last, even then I doubt it.

    My guess would be Brazil versus Argentina in the final with Germany and Italy playing off for third.

    England's playing order is Italy, Uruguay and then Costa Rica. Means that the final game could easily be meaningless for both sides.
    Lennon said:

    Thanks all.

    @Tissue Price - I can't see England beating Costa Rica (or the other two either). I can see England coming home without winning a game. I'd like to be wrong, but defeat at the hands of Italy and Uruguay seems nailed on. If at that point England are already eliminated, then they might scrape a win against whomever they play last, although if they play Italy or Uruguay last, even then I doubt it.

    My guess would be Brazil versus Argentina in the final with Germany and Italy playing off for third.

    England's playing order is Italy, Uruguay and then Costa Rica. Means that the final game could easily be meaningless for both sides.

    Serious question, do any of you chaps in Englandshire expect the shower of numpties recently arrived in Brazil to do anything other than be on a plane home on conclusion of the group stage? They really are totally uninspiring and instead of actively supporting Italy and the other teams playing them, I just want them to be put out of their misery. Not a ball kicked and it seems half of them are already nursing injuries. Just not a patch on the likes of Beckham, Nevilles x 2, Scoles etc from a decade or so ago.

    They're reliably disappointing, the more so in the bigger events, which is why I think they'll do something especially infuriating - like lose the first two games then win the last stylishly when it doesn't matter.

    ISTR they beat Germany 3 nil some years ago on a similar basis, then returned to their usual form as soon as it did.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Pulpstar said:

    If there is a hung parliament in 2015, in practice they have until March 2016 to organise a Government. This is because technically a Finance Bill is not needed until then as income tax will be collected for 2015-2016, but new finance measures will need to be put before parliament to collect income tax in 2016-2017.

    A deal will be done by then, Clegg's head on a platter will be Ed's price or else a second coalition.
    I don't think Clegg's head will be a demand but Farron wil take care of that problem.

  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited June 2014

    Neil said:


    Who would prefer running the country, some Brit or Charles Haughey?

    Well Charles Haughey is dead so the damage he could do now is limited.
    Ok, a Brit or Brian Cowan?
    Gordon Brown or Brian Cowan should be the specific options.
    QE II or a gombeen man/woman.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    edited June 2014
    Mr. Jim, Blatter being full of shit wasn't really news to anyone, but his casual use of racism as an attack on others just helps to dilute and diminish the term.

    It's like human rights abuses. The same term is used to describe North Korean concentration camps and not deporting a convicted murderer to Italy because he can't speak Italian.

    Edited extra bits: to clarify, it's not quite reached that depth with 'racism', but with this and 'euracism' it's heading in that direction.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    surbiton said:

    AveryLP said:

    It's time to pop the champagne corks. Crossover!

    NIESR, not the most right wing of thinktanks and economic analysts, has called the crossover:

    Britain’s strengthening recovery has probably pushed the economy back above its pre-crisis level, ending the longest period of below-peak output in a century.

    The National Institute of Economic and Social Research estimates gross domestic product rose 0.9 percent in the three months through May. That puts it about 0.2 percent above where it was in January 2008, Niesr said in a monthly report today.
    [Bloomberg]

    Poor surby. His final hopes must now be resting on England's performance in the World Cup.

    Bloody time it did ! The slowest to do so ?
    Nope. Italy has yet to climb out of the hole.

    But then no hole was bigger or deeper than that dug by Gordon.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:


    Who would prefer running the country, some Brit or Charles Haughey?

    Well Charles Haughey is dead so the damage he could do now is limited.
    Ok, a Brit or Brian Cowan?
    Gordon Brown or Brian Cowan should be the specific options.
    QE II or a gombeen man/woman.
    Ireland's Presidents tend to be more popular than Britain's Monarchs so I'm definitely going to go with Michael D. over Brenda.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    France's must have popped back down again.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    So Hague's Hearteaters are taking over Iraq with the weapons given to them to fight Assad.

    Who could possibly have imagined that happening?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    AveryLP said:


    Nope. Italy has yet to climb out of the hole.

    But then no hole was bigger or deeper than that dug by Gordon.

    Maybe Gordon was single-handedly trying to reopen Britain's deep coal industry with that hole....?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    AveryLP said:

    It's time to pop the champagne corks. Crossover!

    NIESR, not the most right wing of thinktanks and economic analysts, has called the crossover:

    Britain’s strengthening recovery has probably pushed the economy back above its pre-crisis level, ending the longest period of below-peak output in a century.

    The National Institute of Economic and Social Research estimates gross domestic product rose 0.9 percent in the three months through May. That puts it about 0.2 percent above where it was in January 2008, Niesr said in a monthly report today.
    [Bloomberg]

    Poor surby. His final hopes must now be resting on England's performance in the World Cup.

    better extremely late than never. For a while I thought it would be the latter.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Mr. Jim, Blatter being full of shit wasn't really news to anyone, but his casual use of racism as an attack on others just helps to dilute and diminish the term.

    It's like human rights abuses. The same term is used to describe North Korean concentration camps and not deporting a convicted murderer to Italy because he can't speak Italian.

    Edited extra bits: to clarify, it's not quite reached that depth with 'racism', but with this and 'euracism' it's heading in that direction.

    Mr Dancer, well no the egregious Blatter's suboptimalism has been clear for time, just interesting it's being called out.

    I agree that overuse of terminology devalues them and leads to a sense of moral equivalence to that which should have a certain sense of moral stratigraphy. It's why I've long drawn a distinction between human rights such as the right to life and the right not to be brutally tortured and civil and political rights such as the vote etc
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:

    Is it me or does the country of Ireland do better when there's an Englishman in charge/ruling the place?

    I'm not sure that 1801 - 1922 was the most successful period Ireland ever knew containing as it did a disastrous famine and a halving of its population from peak to trough.

    Yes - if they had put some effort in they could have reached 3/4....

    Still wouldnt have been enough emigrants to keep Rangers afloat though.
    Now now - it gave Ireland the opportunity to export it's culture all over the world : nitrogenated black lager, cabbage, worlds third best whisky, dodgy priests..
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    isam said:



    dr_spyn said:

    @Easterross I would be surprised if England do not lose to Italy or Uruguay.

    Though some of the younger players might see the World Cup as an opportunity to show that they are better than the shower who played in South Africa. I was glad I did not watch the match live v Germany.

    I would be pleasantly surprised if they did go beyond the Group Stage but they aren't really good enough.

    I think this is the most exciting England team in a long while. Young player who like showing off their skills (Sturridge, Welbeck, Lallana, Barkley, Wilshere & The Ox) with seasoned pro's like Gerrard and Rooney.

    A pity politics meant no JT alongside Cahill.
    There's a lot of exciting players, but they're just not as good as those of other countries. We could easily come fourth in our group.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    France's must have popped back down again.

    Hollande is still digging.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    ToryJim said:

    Mr. Jim, Blatter being full of shit wasn't really news to anyone, but his casual use of racism as an attack on others just helps to dilute and diminish the term.

    It's like human rights abuses. The same term is used to describe North Korean concentration camps and not deporting a convicted murderer to Italy because he can't speak Italian.

    Edited extra bits: to clarify, it's not quite reached that depth with 'racism', but with this and 'euracism' it's heading in that direction.

    Mr Dancer, well no the egregious Blatter's suboptimalism has been clear for time, just interesting it's being called out.

    I agree that overuse of terminology devalues them and leads to a sense of moral equivalence to that which should have a certain sense of moral stratigraphy. It's why I've long drawn a distinction between human rights such as the right to life and the right not to be brutally tortured and civil and political rights such as the vote etc
    I despise Blatter for the way he (and Havelange) has utterly corrupted FIFA. That said, I can't help grudgingly admire his ability to retain such tight control for so long. The man's got a teflon skin - nothing seems to stick...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Sean_F said:

    ToryJim said:

    ToryJim said:

    BobaFett said:

    I wonder how many kids would choose to be religious at age 18 were it not for a bunch of adults spending large amounts of time and effort teaching them throughout childhood that science is wrong, and a bloke turned water into wine and came back from the dead.

    I feel bad enough pretending to my four year old that Santa exists.

    You can say that about many things. My parents never took me to pubs as a kid hence until my mid 20s I had a mild fear of them. I was never exposed to football so am fantastically uninterested. I was bought up religious but am an avowed rationalist. Everyone is going to be affected by the belief systems of their parents and you aren't going to eradicate that. There are kids bought up in vegan households is that wrong or immoral? Sometimes we cannot correct for every perceived deficiency etc
    Probably doesn't matter too much so long as parents indicate the existence of alternative views. My father gave me a run-down of the main political parties when I was young and expressed polite interest when I said communism sounded good - he was a Conservative, he said (when I asked him), but I shouldn't let that influence me.

    I suppose that no parents are perfect in balancing guidance with respect but IMO he got pretty close. What he primarily taught me was tolerance and acceptance of other views. Many years later I was pleased to be able to return the compliment - as an elderly voter in Chelsea when I was the Labour PPC, he said he was by then a Liberal, but wondered if I felt he ought to vote for me? I said no, he should definitely vote for his beliefs. I was very fond of him, and as a cameo of a good relationship it still makes me feel happy to think of it.
    I don't demur, my parents were not political obsessives but they encouraged us all to think and to debate. Every Sunday lunch was followed by a 2-3 hour discussion on every topic you could imagine. Often not politics but faith, science, morality which all feed in.
    Sunday Lunch for me usually involved my grandmother haranguing us about her favoured topics, such as scoutmasters were paedophiles, the Camomile Lawn was utter filth, and young people were criminals and drug-addicts.

    One out of three wasn't too bad.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:

    Is it me or does the country of Ireland do better when there's an Englishman in charge/ruling the place?

    I'm not sure that 1801 - 1922 was the most successful period Ireland ever knew containing as it did a disastrous famine and a halving of its population from peak to trough.

    Yes - if they had put some effort in they could have reached 3/4....

    Still wouldnt have been enough emigrants to keep Rangers afloat though.
    Now now - it gave Ireland the opportunity to export it's culture all over the world : nitrogenated black lager, cabbage, worlds third best whisky, dodgy priests..
    Crap, cheesy pubs f*cking everywhere.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Sounds like Sepp didn't get a standing ovation like what he got from the Africans

    Ben Rumsby ‏@ben_rumsby 2m
    Blatter was challenged by one Uefa Exco member and one federation president that Fifa had a bad image and he was not the man to lead it.

    Richard Conway ‏@richard_conway 2m
    Told that FA chairman Greg Dyke directly questioned Sepp Blatter on accusations Qatar 2022 claims are racially motivated.

    Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More
    Richard Conway ‏@richard_conway 2m
    Dutch FA president Michael Van Praag understood to have directly questioned Sepp Blatter on his suitability to stand again as Fifa president
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,524

    Neil said:


    Who would prefer running the country, some Brit or Charles Haughey?

    Well Charles Haughey is dead so the damage he could do now is limited.
    Ok, a Brit or Brian Cowan?
    Brian Coleman or Brian Cowen?

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:

    Is it me or does the country of Ireland do better when there's an Englishman in charge/ruling the place?

    I'm not sure that 1801 - 1922 was the most successful period Ireland ever knew containing as it did a disastrous famine and a halving of its population from peak to trough.

    Yes - if they had put some effort in they could have reached 3/4....

    Still wouldnt have been enough emigrants to keep Rangers afloat though.
    Now now - it gave Ireland the opportunity to export it's culture all over the world : nitrogenated black lager, cabbage, worlds third best whisky, dodgy priests..
    You just don't like the competition H.

    haggis, world's fourth best whisky, Iain Paisley. :-)
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Anyone that thinks FSA and ISIS are the same organisation are idiots, and shouldn't be listened to on Middle Eastern matters.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Sean_F said:

    Neil said:


    Who would prefer running the country, some Brit or Charles Haughey?

    Well Charles Haughey is dead so the damage he could do now is limited.
    Ok, a Brit or Brian Cowan?
    Brian Coleman or Brian Cowen?

    Conley.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited June 2014
    Now who puts their trust in economists' forecasts?

    Bloomberg has polled economists across the world to create a league table of forecasts for the outcome of the World Cup.

    While 98 respondents chose Brazil as the winning team in the Bloomberg survey, points were also awarded, with 10 for first place, 7.5 for second, four for third and one for fourth.

    Brazil topped the league with 1,270.5 points, almost twice Germany’s 763 and Argentina’s 641. Defending champion Spain secured 614.5 points, and after that support for other teams fell away, with Portugal the next highest ranked on 94.5 points. The U.S. got just 8.5 points and England 7.

    The predictions for the World Cup winner centered almost exclusively on Brazil, Germany, Argentina and Spain. Of the 171 responses, only six economists diverged from that trend, with three choosing Portugal, two backing Italy and one Uruguay.


    Full article here: http://bloom.bg/1nvD3jw

    Just seven points for England‽ Time to put George Osborne in the team.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited June 2014
    Neil said:

    Neil said:


    Who would prefer running the country, some Brit or Charles Haughey?

    Well Charles Haughey is dead so the damage he could do now is limited.
    Ok, a Brit or Brian Cowan?
    Gordon Brown or Brian Cowan should be the specific options.
    QE II or a gombeen man/woman.
    Ireland's Presidents tend to be more popular than Britain's Monarchs so I'm definitely going to go with Michael D. over Brenda.
    It's been a full-time job for the republicans to suppress the latent Royalist sentiment of the Irish people. There are signs that your side is running out of puff.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Sean_F said:

    Neil said:


    Who would prefer running the country, some Brit or Charles Haughey?

    Well Charles Haughey is dead so the damage he could do now is limited.
    Ok, a Brit or Brian Cowan?
    Brian Coleman or Brian Cowen?

    Is the question still who would be a better head of government or has it moved on to who would be a better lover? Because my answer would be different depending on which it is.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Socrates said:

    isam said:



    dr_spyn said:

    @Easterross I would be surprised if England do not lose to Italy or Uruguay.

    Though some of the younger players might see the World Cup as an opportunity to show that they are better than the shower who played in South Africa. I was glad I did not watch the match live v Germany.

    I would be pleasantly surprised if they did go beyond the Group Stage but they aren't really good enough.

    I think this is the most exciting England team in a long while. Young player who like showing off their skills (Sturridge, Welbeck, Lallana, Barkley, Wilshere & The Ox) with seasoned pro's like Gerrard and Rooney.

    A pity politics meant no JT alongside Cahill.
    There's a lot of exciting players, but they're just not as good as those of other countries. We could easily come fourth in our group.
    Nonsense, Costa Rica is by far the outsider of our group. Uruguay, Italy and England are much of a muchness in terms of odds and team values.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030
    AveryLP said:

    Now who puts their trust in economists' forecasts?

    Bloomberg has polled economists across the world to create a league table of forecasts for the outcome of the World Cup.

    While 98 respondents chose Brazil as the winning team in the Bloomberg survey, points were also awarded, with 10 for first place, 7.5 for second, four for third and one for fourth.

    Brazil topped the league with 1,270.5 points, almost twice Germany’s 763 and Argentina’s 641. Defending champion Spain secured 614.5 points, and after that support for other teams fell away, with Portugal the next highest ranked on 94.5 points. The U.S. got just 8.5 points and England 7.

    The predictions for the World Cup winner centered almost exclusively on Brazil, Germany, Argentina and Spain. Of the 171 responses, only six economists diverged from that trend, with three choosing Portugal, two backing Italy and one Uruguay.


    Full article here: http://bloom.bg/1nvD3jw

    Just seven points for England‽ Time to put George Osborne in the team.

    I'd be worried if the IMF predicted England would win ;-)
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TGOHF said:

    Sounds like Sepp didn't get a standing ovation like what he got from the Africans

    Of course UEFA are against him. The problem is UEFA dont have the votes to oust him. And dig deep into the Qatar bid and I dont think you'll find UEFA's Platini smelling of roses.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Sounds like Sepp didn't get a standing ovation like what he got from the Africans

    Of course UEFA are against him. The problem is UEFA dont have the votes to oust him. And dig deep into the Qatar bid and I dont think you'll find UEFA's Platini smelling of roses.
    UEFA do have the $$$$ to oust him via sponsors and tv.

    If the top 5-6 UEFA countries pulled out of Qatar 2022 it would be moved before you could blink.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    AveryLP said:

    It's time to pop the champagne corks. Crossover!

    NIESR, not the most right wing of thinktanks and economic analysts, has called the crossover:

    Britain’s strengthening recovery has probably pushed the economy back above its pre-crisis level, ending the longest period of below-peak output in a century.

    The National Institute of Economic and Social Research estimates gross domestic product rose 0.9 percent in the three months through May. That puts it about 0.2 percent above where it was in January 2008, Niesr said in a monthly report today.
    [Bloomberg]

    Poor surby. His final hopes must now be resting on England's performance in the World Cup.

    better extremely late than never. For a while I thought it would be the latter.
    It would have been the latter imo except for the black swan of the sudden flood of money from the BRICs. The question is why that's happening and what the full consequences will be.

    If it's happening because globalization is unraveling due to the imbalance in supply and demand it created and various oligarchs from around the world want to avoid the wave of nationalizations that are likely in the BRICs as a result then that rush of money is a signal like the tide going out before a tsunami.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,524
    http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/19th-february-1994/8/another-voice

    O/T but I see the Spectator has now archived Auberon Waugh's moving obituary for Stephen Milligan.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    Neil said:


    Who would prefer running the country, some Brit or Charles Haughey?

    Well Charles Haughey is dead so the damage he could do now is limited.
    Ok, a Brit or Brian Cowan?
    Gordon Brown or Brian Cowan should be the specific options.
    QE II or a gombeen man/woman.
    Ireland's Presidents tend to be more popular than Britain's Monarchs so I'm definitely going to go with Michael D. over Brenda.
    It's been a full-time job for the republicans to suppress the latent Royalist sentiment of the Irish people. There are signs that your side is running out of puff.

    Now, now - you were caught out on your claim that Brenda was more popular than the President of Ireland within the last week.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TGOHF said:


    UEFA do have the $$$$ to oust him via sponsors and tv.


    No, they dont. If they had they would have done so before.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    RobD said:

    AveryLP said:

    Now who puts their trust in economists' forecasts?

    Bloomberg has polled economists across the world to create a league table of forecasts for the outcome of the World Cup.

    While 98 respondents chose Brazil as the winning team in the Bloomberg survey, points were also awarded, with 10 for first place, 7.5 for second, four for third and one for fourth.

    Brazil topped the league with 1,270.5 points, almost twice Germany’s 763 and Argentina’s 641. Defending champion Spain secured 614.5 points, and after that support for other teams fell away, with Portugal the next highest ranked on 94.5 points. The U.S. got just 8.5 points and England 7.

    The predictions for the World Cup winner centered almost exclusively on Brazil, Germany, Argentina and Spain. Of the 171 responses, only six economists diverged from that trend, with three choosing Portugal, two backing Italy and one Uruguay.


    Full article here: http://bloom.bg/1nvD3jw

    Just seven points for England‽ Time to put George Osborne in the team.

    I'd be worried if the IMF predicted England would win ;-)
    Maybe it was Oilaveanuva Blancmange who gave us the seven points!

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Neil said:

    Is it me or does the country of Ireland do better when there's an Englishman in charge/ruling the place?

    I'm not sure that 1801 - 1922 was the most successful period Ireland ever knew containing as it did a disastrous famine and a halving of its population from peak to trough.

    You're so negative, stop focussing on the negatives.

    Who would prefer running the country, some Brit or Charles Haughey?
    When Ireland was part of the UK, the irish people were not thought of as british citizens, that is the key to the disaster that was British management of Ireland.

    The Irish famine was the ultimate proof that Britain was incapable of running the place, there was more that enough food to feed the people but the authorities preferred to export it to pocket the money (not much difference that the stalinist famine in the USSR in the 1930's), when international aid was offered to alleviate the famine Queen Victoria refused, she preffered for her people to die of starvation than reduce the prestige of the empire.

    That was the end of the irish people thinking that they can stay subjects to the queen's government and stay alive, Irish Home Rule demands never ended and got stronger and more radical until the opportunity arrived for independence.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112

    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    Tories plotting to form a coalition with Northern Ireland MPs to avoid sharing power again with Clegg

    EXCLUSIVE: Senior Tories examining plan to form a government with DUP

    David Cameron needs to win more than 316 seats to secure outright majority

    If he falls just short, could rely on 8 Democratic Unionist MPs to take power

    Polls suggest a narrow result is possible at the 2015 general election

    Around 40 Tory MPs are ready to block a second coalition with Lib Dems

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653992/Tories-plotting-form-coalition-Northern-Ireland-MPs-avoid-sharing-power-Clegg.html

    Surely the Tories are far too principled to spend 5 years ramming through England only legislation on the back on Northern Irish votes? ;)
    West Lothian question will be replaced by the Derry question ?
    Tbf the West Lothian question was originally an Irish question anyway, they'd only be reclaiming it.
    Reckon the Shinners can take Belfast North and Foyle next year?

    That might make Ed or Dave's life easier, 5 Shinner MPs reduces the threshold for a majority.

    Edit: What about Upper Bann, that could see them come through the middle?
    SF already have 5 - Belfast N and Foyle would make it 7!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:


    UEFA do have the $$$$ to oust him via sponsors and tv.


    No, they dont. If they had they would have done so before.
    They have the $$ but not the balls.

    The Premier League happened because the big clubs wanted a bigger say and a bigger slice.

    The tail can only wag the FIFA dug for so long IMHO.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    Tories plotting to form a coalition with Northern Ireland MPs to avoid sharing power again with Clegg

    EXCLUSIVE: Senior Tories examining plan to form a government with DUP

    David Cameron needs to win more than 316 seats to secure outright majority

    If he falls just short, could rely on 8 Democratic Unionist MPs to take power

    Polls suggest a narrow result is possible at the 2015 general election

    Around 40 Tory MPs are ready to block a second coalition with Lib Dems

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653992/Tories-plotting-form-coalition-Northern-Ireland-MPs-avoid-sharing-power-Clegg.html

    Surely the Tories are far too principled to spend 5 years ramming through England only legislation on the back on Northern Irish votes? ;)
    West Lothian question will be replaced by the Derry question ?
    Tbf the West Lothian question was originally an Irish question anyway, they'd only be reclaiming it.
    Reckon the Shinners can take Belfast North and Foyle next year?

    That might make Ed or Dave's life easier, 5 Shinner MPs reduces the threshold for a majority.

    Edit: What about Upper Bann, that could see them come through the middle?
    SF already have 5 - Belfast N and Foyle would make it 7!
    Sunil did you get my mail ?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited June 2014
    Speedy said:




    When Ireland was part of the UK, the irish people were not thought of as british citizens, that is the key to the disaster that was British management of Ireland.

    The Irish famine was the ultimate proof that Britain was incapable of running the place, there was more that enough food to feed the people but the authorities preferred to export it to pocket the money (not much difference that the stalinist famine in the USSR in the 1930's), when international aid was offered to alleviate the famine Queen Victoria refused, she preffered for her people to die of starvation than reduce the prestige of the empire.

    That was the end of the irish people thinking that they can stay subjects to the queen's government and stay alive, Irish Home Rule demands never ended and got stronger and more radical until the opportunity arrived for independence.

    Blame Westminster ! Nothing changes...
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited June 2014
    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:


    UEFA do have the $$$$ to oust him via sponsors and tv.


    No, they dont. If they had they would have done so before.
    They have the $$ but not the balls.

    The Premier League happened because the big clubs wanted a bigger say and a bigger slice.

    The tail can only wag the FIFA dug for so long IMHO.

    That is true UEFA can threaten to withdraw from FIFA, like what happened with european basketball a few years ago.
    But UEFA's leadership is not much in a different situation that the FIFA leadership regarding corruption from third world businessmen.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958

    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    Tories plotting to form a coalition with Northern Ireland MPs to avoid sharing power again with Clegg

    EXCLUSIVE: Senior Tories examining plan to form a government with DUP

    David Cameron needs to win more than 316 seats to secure outright majority

    If he falls just short, could rely on 8 Democratic Unionist MPs to take power

    Polls suggest a narrow result is possible at the 2015 general election

    Around 40 Tory MPs are ready to block a second coalition with Lib Dems

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653992/Tories-plotting-form-coalition-Northern-Ireland-MPs-avoid-sharing-power-Clegg.html

    Surely the Tories are far too principled to spend 5 years ramming through England only legislation on the back on Northern Irish votes? ;)
    West Lothian question will be replaced by the Derry question ?
    Tbf the West Lothian question was originally an Irish question anyway, they'd only be reclaiming it.
    Reckon the Shinners can take Belfast North and Foyle next year?

    That might make Ed or Dave's life easier, 5 Shinner MPs reduces the threshold for a majority.

    Edit: What about Upper Bann, that could see them come through the middle?
    SF already have 5 - Belfast N and Foyle would make it 7!
    My mistake.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112

    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    Tories plotting to form a coalition with Northern Ireland MPs to avoid sharing power again with Clegg

    EXCLUSIVE: Senior Tories examining plan to form a government with DUP

    David Cameron needs to win more than 316 seats to secure outright majority

    If he falls just short, could rely on 8 Democratic Unionist MPs to take power

    Polls suggest a narrow result is possible at the 2015 general election

    Around 40 Tory MPs are ready to block a second coalition with Lib Dems

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653992/Tories-plotting-form-coalition-Northern-Ireland-MPs-avoid-sharing-power-Clegg.html

    Surely the Tories are far too principled to spend 5 years ramming through England only legislation on the back on Northern Irish votes? ;)
    West Lothian question will be replaced by the Derry question ?
    Tbf the West Lothian question was originally an Irish question anyway, they'd only be reclaiming it.
    Reckon the Shinners can take Belfast North and Foyle next year?

    That might make Ed or Dave's life easier, 5 Shinner MPs reduces the threshold for a majority.

    Edit: What about Upper Bann, that could see them come through the middle?
    SF already have 5 - Belfast N and Foyle would make it 7!
    Sunil did you get my mail ?
    No I didn't - did you send it here or to my email?
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    What has England's record been like playing Italy, Uruguay and Costa Rica in non-friendlies? My guess would be that all of them owned England.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    MikeL said:

    Re the JackW 9am forecast:

    This is forecasting a net gain of 9 Con seats - yet the "dozen" has two Con losses and no Con gains.

    So where are the Con gains forecast to arise?

    And does this not suggest that the "dozen" is not doing its job as it appears to be missing where the Con gains are forecast to arise.

    Thanks for your comment and a casual glance would indicate to some degree that you have a fair point.

    However covering a range of options with 13 seats is tricky. I've tried to give a broad geographical and political spread within the context of the likely outcome from the ARSE national projection. The Cornwall North projection is TCTC but if "called" today would be Con Gain.

    Within that context the present Conservative figure of 315 is the second highest since July last year and has usually been in the 290/300 range which would make the 13 seats slightly more appropriate. Even so the difference is at the margin as indeed are a number of seats that made the long list but not the final cut.

    Further I think in fairness I haven't chosen a batch of easy seats. I might get most wrong or right and yet be within a point or two in each case both with the seats and the national projection.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    Tories plotting to form a coalition with Northern Ireland MPs to avoid sharing power again with Clegg

    EXCLUSIVE: Senior Tories examining plan to form a government with DUP

    David Cameron needs to win more than 316 seats to secure outright majority

    If he falls just short, could rely on 8 Democratic Unionist MPs to take power

    Polls suggest a narrow result is possible at the 2015 general election

    Around 40 Tory MPs are ready to block a second coalition with Lib Dems

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653992/Tories-plotting-form-coalition-Northern-Ireland-MPs-avoid-sharing-power-Clegg.html

    Surely the Tories are far too principled to spend 5 years ramming through England only legislation on the back on Northern Irish votes? ;)
    West Lothian question will be replaced by the Derry question ?
    Tbf the West Lothian question was originally an Irish question anyway, they'd only be reclaiming it.
    Reckon the Shinners can take Belfast North and Foyle next year?

    That might make Ed or Dave's life easier, 5 Shinner MPs reduces the threshold for a majority.

    Edit: What about Upper Bann, that could see them come through the middle?
    SF already have 5 - Belfast N and Foyle would make it 7!
    Sunil did you get my mail ?
    No I didn't - did you send it here or to my email?
    sent it to your mail.

    just wanted to know where you are staying and what time you want picked up. Also do you fancy a meal or just drinks.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    TGOHF said:

    Speedy said:




    When Ireland was part of the UK, the irish people were not thought of as british citizens, that is the key to the disaster that was British management of Ireland.

    The Irish famine was the ultimate proof that Britain was incapable of running the place, there was more that enough food to feed the people but the authorities preferred to export it to pocket the money (not much difference that the stalinist famine in the USSR in the 1930's), when international aid was offered to alleviate the famine Queen Victoria refused, she preffered for her people to die of starvation than reduce the prestige of the empire.

    That was the end of the irish people thinking that they can stay subjects to the queen's government and stay alive, Irish Home Rule demands never ended and got stronger and more radical until the opportunity arrived for independence.

    Blame Westminster ! Nothing changes...
    That is the difference between irish and scottish independence, Ireland left because it wanted to survive, Scotland does not have the same strong reasons to leave.
    It's citizens have equal rights with any other in Britain (in some cases more rights) and it has never suffered the mismanagement of the scale of Ireland.
    The only reason is oil revenues and those will not exist for long.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    Tories plotting to form a coalition with Northern Ireland MPs to avoid sharing power again with Clegg

    EXCLUSIVE: Senior Tories examining plan to form a government with DUP

    David Cameron needs to win more than 316 seats to secure outright majority

    If he falls just short, could rely on 8 Democratic Unionist MPs to take power

    Polls suggest a narrow result is possible at the 2015 general election

    Around 40 Tory MPs are ready to block a second coalition with Lib Dems

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653992/Tories-plotting-form-coalition-Northern-Ireland-MPs-avoid-sharing-power-Clegg.html

    Surely the Tories are far too principled to spend 5 years ramming through England only legislation on the back on Northern Irish votes? ;)
    West Lothian question will be replaced by the Derry question ?
    Tbf the West Lothian question was originally an Irish question anyway, they'd only be reclaiming it.
    Reckon the Shinners can take Belfast North and Foyle next year?

    That might make Ed or Dave's life easier, 5 Shinner MPs reduces the threshold for a majority.

    Edit: What about Upper Bann, that could see them come through the middle?
    SF already have 5 - Belfast N and Foyle would make it 7!
    So long as it isn't an actual majority for the Conservatives we can all be happy !

    325 seats run as a de facto majority would be settled as "other" I think ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958

    What has England's record been like playing Italy, Uruguay and Costa Rica in non-friendlies? My guess would be that all of them owned England.

    Last time England played Uruguay in a world cup, was 1966.

    Just saying.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112

    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    Tories plotting to form a coalition with Northern Ireland MPs to avoid sharing power again with Clegg

    EXCLUSIVE: Senior Tories examining plan to form a government with DUP

    David Cameron needs to win more than 316 seats to secure outright majority

    If he falls just short, could rely on 8 Democratic Unionist MPs to take power

    Polls suggest a narrow result is possible at the 2015 general election

    Around 40 Tory MPs are ready to block a second coalition with Lib Dems

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653992/Tories-plotting-form-coalition-Northern-Ireland-MPs-avoid-sharing-power-Clegg.html

    Surely the Tories are far too principled to spend 5 years ramming through England only legislation on the back on Northern Irish votes? ;)
    West Lothian question will be replaced by the Derry question ?
    Tbf the West Lothian question was originally an Irish question anyway, they'd only be reclaiming it.
    Reckon the Shinners can take Belfast North and Foyle next year?

    That might make Ed or Dave's life easier, 5 Shinner MPs reduces the threshold for a majority.

    Edit: What about Upper Bann, that could see them come through the middle?
    SF already have 5 - Belfast N and Foyle would make it 7!
    My mistake.
    Occupied Northern Ireland presently has 8 DUP, 5 SF, 3 SDLP, 1 Alliance and last but not least Lady Sylvia Hermon in N Down.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Speedy said:


    Neil said:

    Is it me or does the country of Ireland do better when there's an Englishman in charge/ruling the place?

    I'm not sure that 1801 - 1922 was the most successful period Ireland ever knew containing as it did a disastrous famine and a halving of its population from peak to trough.

    You're so negative, stop focussing on the negatives.

    Who would prefer running the country, some Brit or Charles Haughey?
    When Ireland was part of the UK, the irish people were not thought of as british citizens, that is the key to the disaster that was British management of Ireland.

    The Irish famine was the ultimate proof that Britain was incapable of running the place, there was more that enough food to feed the people but the authorities preferred to export it to pocket the money (not much difference that the stalinist famine in the USSR in the 1930's), when international aid was offered to alleviate the famine Queen Victoria refused, she preffered for her people to die of starvation than reduce the prestige of the empire.

    That was the end of the irish people thinking that they can stay subjects to the queen's government and stay alive, Irish Home Rule demands never ended and got stronger and more radical until the opportunity arrived for independence.

    Stalin deliberately used a famine to exterminate class enemies and break the spirit of the Ukrainians. The idea that there's not much difference between this and mismanagement in Ireland is absurd, and just based on old-fashioned Anglophobia.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    What has England's record been like playing Italy, Uruguay and Costa Rica in non-friendlies? My guess would be that all of them owned England.

    Never played CR

    Havent played Uruguay in my lifetime

    Drew 0-0 w Italy in 2012, Drew 0-0 in Italy 97, lost 0-1 at Wembley 97

    Fair to say we find them hard to break down!

    But not fair to say they owned England
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    ToryJim said:
    This sounds familiar

    Of course there are, respond the wilder Nats. These people are suffering from Jockholm Syndrome. You couldn’t be proud of voting No, could you and deep down you have to know doing so is an act of betrayal. Toom tabard and all that.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    ToryJim said:
    This sounds familiar

    Of course there are, respond the wilder Nats. These people are suffering from Jockholm Syndrome. You couldn’t be proud of voting No, could you and deep down you have to know doing so is an act of betrayal. Toom tabard and all that.
    I did enjoy the Jockholm Syndrome line.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    ToryJim said:
    YESNP adopting Obama's Yes We Can slogan looking stupid after the US President's recent statement in support of the Union. It's no surprise, I'm sure he'd have been a Lincoln Unionist rather than a Southern Confederate in the US's great struggle.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited June 2014
    JackW said:

    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to the JNN the contents of the latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection and inaugural "JackW Dozen" Projection.

    Con 315 .. Lab 271 .. LibDem 31 .. SNP 8 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 3 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1

    Conservatives 11 seats short of a majority.

    Note :

    Lowest LibDem seat number.

    ......................................................................................

    "JackW Dozen" - 13 seats that will shape the General Election result :

    Bury North - TCTC
    Pudsey - TCTC
    Broxtowe - Likely Lab Gain
    Warwickshire North - Likely Lab Gain
    Cambridge - Likely LibDem Hold
    Ipswich - TCTC
    Watford - TCTC
    Croydon Central - Likely Con Hold
    Enfield - Likely Con Hold
    Cornwall North - TCTC
    Great Yarmouth - Likely Con Hold
    Vale of Glamorgan - Likely Con Hold
    Ochill and South Perthshire - TCTC

    TCTC - Too Close To Call - Less than 500 votes
    Likely Hold/Gain - 500 - 2500 votes
    Gain/Hold - Over 2500

    .......................................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors

    Jack, based on past performance, do you think there could be further movement in your ARSE during the final year? Or, one year out, has your ARSE nailed it?
This discussion has been closed.