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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After Newark CON must be pretty confident of holding Cambs

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  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557

    Jane Merrick ‏@janemerrick23 6 mins
    Gordon Brown says "it would be good" if David Cameron did head to head debate with Alex Salmond #indyref #pressgallery

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 8 mins
    Gordon Brown says you can't allow referendum to be Britain v Scotland. Must be about two visions of Scotland.

    So at least one person doesn't think an Eck v Dave debate would be an Scotland v England thing.

    I've always wondered which opponent Gordon Brown hates most: the SNP or the Tories? We are beginning to see what has long been suspected: it is the Tories.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,935
    Rexel56 said:

    what is nasty is to label one immigrant as concerning but another as acceptable solely on the basis of their nationality...

    There are plenty in this country who are happy to label one Brit as concerning but another as
    acceptable purely on the basis of their politics.

    Many on the Left would be happy to side with any immigrant (from wherever and whether here illegally or not) over a Tory or a Kipper....
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Jesus, Theresa May is giving an absolutely awful performance in the HofC

    Patronising tone, tripping up over her words, and playing party politics instead of addressing the root of the problem

    .. and it shouldnt matter, but she looks awful

    She has always been totally hopeless. That she is even being mentioned for leader is a sign of the dearth of talent in the Tory party.

    Mind you, she'd be better than Gove.
    How patronising does she sound ?

    Patricia Hewitt levels ?
    She's good. But she's not that good! ;)
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Rexel56 said:

    isam said:



    to me it isnt nasty or racist to want to curb immigration

    I agree... what is nasty is to label one immigrant as concerning but another as acceptable solely on the basis of their nationality...


    Which is why the political and media class are so up in arms about the anti-Roma street patrols in Sheffield.

  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    isam said:

    Rexel56 said:

    isam said:



    to me it isnt nasty or racist to want to curb immigration

    I agree... what is nasty is to label one immigrant as concerning but another as acceptable solely on the basis of their nationality...


    Everone does it, as the polls show.
    100% of respondents, that surprises me... may I have a link please?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Theresa May. Oh dear. Not good.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    Rexel56 said:

    isam said:



    to me it isnt nasty or racist to want to curb immigration

    I agree... what is nasty is to label one immigrant as concerning but another as acceptable solely on the basis of their nationality...


    Funny, that's exactly what we do at the moment. Official government and opposition policy is EU immigrants good, non EU migrants bad.

    We should treat everyone equally no matter where they come from. And that can only be done by leaving the EU.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141

    Jane Merrick ‏@janemerrick23 6 mins
    Gordon Brown says "it would be good" if David Cameron did head to head debate with Alex Salmond #indyref #pressgallery

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 8 mins
    Gordon Brown says you can't allow referendum to be Britain v Scotland. Must be about two visions of Scotland.

    So at least one person doesn't think an Eck v Dave debate would be an Scotland v England thing.

    I've always wondered which opponent Gordon Brown hates most: the SNP or the Tories? We are beginning to see what has long been suspected: it is the Tories.
    In that particular respect he seems out of step with much of SLAB.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    DavidL said:

    I would be more than slightly surprised that Cameron would be quite so vocal in coming out against someone who will be in a position to be at least administratively difficult if he was not very confident that he could stop him.

    Just one more point on this, the one thing that would be worse for an actual attempted renegotiation than failing to stop Juncker is succeeding in stopping him. The European Parliament would be hopping mad, anyone who supports the democratization process will start to think it can only be done by getting rid of Britain, and any attempt at an actual treaty change, which was already unbelievably hard because it involves 28 member states that all have their own agendas, each with multiple veto points, will be met with somebody's gloating revenge veto.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Now showing . Nick Clegg in the "Rocky Political Horror Show"
    ....A little shimmy to the right.
    A little shimmy to the left....

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27764730
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    edited June 2014


    Nope.

    I was asking whether former BNP supporters were voting for what they thought was Original UKIP or New UKIP.

    If the former, where will they go when they discover it's turned/turning into the latter?

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmhaff/uc182-vii/uc18201.htm

    "In terms of the extent that she mentioned-the 16,500 and the 2,409-are those figures a surprise to you, or do they bear out the kind of investigations that you have been involved in?"

    If you mapped the clusters of relatively strong BNP support with the areas where people knew about thousands of English children being raped, tortured, forced into prostitution and sometimes killed by grooming gangs while the entire political and media class covered it up what do you think the correlation would be?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    I don't know why, but I've just backed Eric Pickles as next Tory leader at 66/1 with bet 365
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Rexel56 said:

    isam said:



    to me it isnt nasty or racist to want to curb immigration

    I agree... what is nasty is to label one immigrant as concerning but another as acceptable solely on the basis of their nationality...
    You mean like requiring the meeting of certain thresholds in a points system for Ukrainians but allowing free access to Romanians?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    I don't know why, but I've just backed Eric Pickles as next Tory leader at 66/1 with bet 365

    Are you mad?!?
  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807

    Rexel56 said:

    isam said:



    to me it isnt nasty or racist to want to curb immigration

    I agree... what is nasty is to label one immigrant as concerning but another as acceptable solely on the basis of their nationality...


    Funny, that's exactly what we do at the moment. Official government and opposition policy is EU immigrants good, non EU migrants bad.

    We should treat everyone equally no matter where they come from. And that can only be done by leaving the EU.
    A perfectly reasoned argument, consistent with having sovereignty over trade deals, and one which Farage should have stuck to.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118


    Rexel56 said:

    isam said:

    Rexel56 said:

    isam said:



    to me it isnt nasty or racist to want to curb immigration

    I agree... what is nasty is to label one immigrant as concerning but another as acceptable solely on the basis of their nationality...


    Everone does it, as the polls show.
    100% of respondents, that surprises me... may I have a link please?
    Ah the old "Im so mmorally pure I dont understand"
    schtick...didnt take long

    Supporters of all parties showed a preference for German neighbours over Romanians in a poll. As expected UKIP were least enthusiastic about either, and the Lib Dems were most enthusiastic. But all party groups showed the same distinction in temrs of who theyd prefer if forced to choose

    So Farage was right to make the distinction
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    ToryJim said:

    I don't know why, but I've just backed Eric Pickles as next Tory leader at 66/1 with bet 365

    Are you mad?!?
    It's a trading bet. Plus it was a free bet.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Rexel56 said:

    Socrates said:

    Oh, and Farage also said this: "The vast majority of Romanians who have come to the UK wish to better their lives and would make good neighbours."

    The smearers ignore that bit.

    Well he isn't tired all the time.
    Retreating back to sarcasm, I see. I guess your brief attempt to argue on the actual facts didn't work out too well...
  • macisbackmacisback Posts: 382

    isam said:

    Jesus, Theresa May is giving an absolutely awful performance in the HofC

    Patronising tone, tripping up over her words, and playing party politics instead of addressing the root of the problem

    .. and it shouldnt matter, but she looks awful

    She has always been totally hopeless. That she is even being mentioned for leader is a sign of the dearth of talent in the Tory party.

    Mind you, she'd be better than Gove.
    Gove is top notch, he and Osborne would make a fantastic leadership team, for the Conservative Party and the nation, hopefully without you lot, you want your socialist state control, I hope you go it alone.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    ToryJim said:

    I don't know why, but I've just backed Eric Pickles as next Tory leader at 66/1 with bet 365

    Are you mad?!?
    It's a trading bet. Plus it was a free bet.
    The Pickler on Betfair - Tory leader.

    Total matched on this event:£18,319

    Betting summary - Volume:£31

    Last price matched: 220

    You must have good faith in the Pickles surge !
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    F1: Ferrari didn't put on their upgrades for the race due to overheating concerns. Red Bull were also borderline but took the risk. So, relatively, Ferrari should be a bit quicker in Austria.

    I also have a potential early bet idea. Odds not that there yet. Betfair markets are up but haven't got going, Ladbrokes only have the winner market.

    Incidentally, Austria's a returning circuit, so sort-of new. Won't be on the BBC unfortunately due to the organisation's Judas Iscariot deal of a few years back. I think Russia (a genuinely new circuit) will be on the BBC.

    And don't forget to read my thrilling post-race analysis of Canada:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/canada-post-race-analysis.html
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    "We have just fought European Parliament elections and we were the only party that was actually focusing on the thorny issue of Europe and the EU’s flawed Freedom of Movement policy, which prevents us from having the power to control our own borders. The election result reflects the fact that we won the argument.

    However, we must move on and develop our policies in other areas. Parties that run narrow campaigns which focus on a few headline policies are doomed to fail in general elections – William Hague’s Conservatives did this in 2001 and Ukip has done it in every election since its inception. Albert Einstein is quoted as saying that ‘insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.’ If we as party do not broaden our agenda with a raft of policies that resonate with the public then we are doomed to fail because we will be repeating the same mistake.

    That’s why I want to see us be bold and brave in the policy announcements we make at our party conference in Doncaster in September."


    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/06/what-ism-sums-up-ukip-common-sense-ism/
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Rexel56 said:

    Rexel56 said:

    isam said:



    to me it isnt nasty or racist to want to curb immigration

    I agree... what is nasty is to label one immigrant as concerning but another as acceptable solely on the basis of their nationality...


    Funny, that's exactly what we do at the moment. Official government and opposition policy is EU immigrants good, non EU migrants bad.

    We should treat everyone equally no matter where they come from. And that can only be done by leaving the EU.
    A perfectly reasoned argument, consistent with having sovereignty over trade deals, and one which Farage should have stuck to.
    And he did stick to it. He didn't single out Romanians in the election campaign on any of their billboards. He was just asked a question in a gotcha interview and he gave an honest answer. The rest of the media then jumped on it, and repeated it ad nauseum with far more coverage than it did to the actual main argments UKIP were making. It is then claimed that's the core of their message.

    It's such nasty smear tactics that are a major motivating force for me to vote UKIP at the next election. When CCHQ works with the Guardian as part of a smear campaign against UKIP, rather than having an honest debate on policy points, it just shows how the whole political-media elite are all the same. UKIP aren't something new in politics - they're just a return to what we used to have before Blair and Campbell turned up to corrupt our public life.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Damien McBride reference from Theresa May. Ouch.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,697
    There’s a lovely Romanian family locally; the daughter is one of the best barmaids around.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2014
    Guardian will cease hard copy production in 2015

    EDIT: Link removed
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    DavidL said:

    I would be more than slightly surprised that Cameron would be quite so vocal in coming out against someone who will be in a position to be at least administratively difficult if he was not very confident that he could stop him.

    Just one more point on this, the one thing that would be worse for an actual attempted renegotiation than failing to stop Juncker is succeeding in stopping him. The European Parliament would be hopping mad, anyone who supports the democratization process will start to think it can only be done by getting rid of Britain, and any attempt at an actual treaty change, which was already unbelievably hard because it involves 28 member states that all have their own agendas, each with multiple veto points, will be met with somebody's gloating revenge veto.
    I can offer two possible explanations.

    One: Cameron is a determined BOOer, but he is intent on demonstrating the impossibility of EU reform to the British people so that he can win a referendum on EU exit. Thus he has to sabotage his own attempts to secure reform.

    Two: Cameron really does not care about the EU issue, would rather it went away, and so plays the whole thing for short-term advantage and expediency vis his relations with Tory backbenchers and creating credible sounding policies to combat UKIP. Thus the whole renegotiation policy is simply designed to reduce the loss of Tory votes to UKIP at the 2015GE, with no particular thought given to whether it makes any sense in the scenario where he remains PM after the election.

    Consequently, the problems that opposing Juncker's candidacy might create for his stated policy in the period after May 2015 are simply too far away in the future that they don't matter to Cameron right now.

    I guess there's actually a third, what you might call "Nabavi" option. That is that Cameron is motivated by a genuine desire to reform the EU in order to preserve British membership and he believes that other EU leaders will not take him seriously if he does not try to prevent an establishment federalist from becoming Commission President.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    edited June 2014
    Tim Montgomerie ‏@TimMontgomerie 1m

    The Chancellor bored by T May statement. He's started Tweeting from the front bench:

    twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/476007575566438401 …
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Surely immigration should be a matter of character rather than race or nationality. That's what UKIP is proposing, so far as I can see.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    edited June 2014
    isam said:

    Guardian will cease hard copy production in 2015

    EDIT: Link removed

    Spoof and I'm getting a warning about that site.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    I know it's common to get a bit more reactionary as you get older, but what happens if you're already an anti-semitic, old fascist?

    'Put Jewish singer in an oven, says Le Pen

    The founder of France’s National Front caused outrage yesterday by saying that a popular Jewish singer should be put in an oven. Two weeks after topping the polls in the European elections, the party was on the defensive after the latest in a long line of anti-Semitic cracks by Jean-Marie Le Pen.'

    http://tinyurl.com/nm5kx84

    I think he's bitter at his daughter doing better than him.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,334
    Socrates said:

    Rexel56 said:

    Rexel56 said:

    isam said:



    to me it isnt nasty or racist to want to curb immigration

    I agree... what is nasty is to label one immigrant as concerning but another as acceptable solely on the basis of their nationality...


    Funny, that's exactly what we do at the moment. Official government and opposition policy is EU immigrants good, non EU migrants bad.

    We should treat everyone equally no matter where they come from. And that can only be done by leaving the EU.
    A perfectly reasoned argument, consistent with having sovereignty over trade deals, and one which Farage should have stuck to.
    And he did stick to it. He didn't single out Romanians in the election campaign on any of their billboards. He was just asked a question in a gotcha interview and he gave an honest answer. The rest of the media then jumped on it, and repeated it ad nauseum with far more coverage than it did to the actual main argments UKIP were making. It is then claimed that's the core of their message.

    It's such nasty smear tactics that are a major motivating force for me to vote UKIP at the next election. When CCHQ works with the Guardian as part of a smear campaign against UKIP, rather than having an honest debate on policy points, it just shows how the whole political-media elite are all the same. UKIP aren't something new in politics - they're just a return to what we used to have before Blair and Campbell turned up to corrupt our public life.
    Much the same has been happening with Mr Salmond and the indyref debate - and as you say it has upset a lot of people.

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited June 2014
    isam said:

    Guardian will cease hard copy production in 2015

    EDIT: Link removed

    My browser says that is a scam link - not finding a link to the article by navigating from the Guardian front page.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Much as I am not impressed by May today, the Lib Dem and Labour MP's that are suggesting that the govt are engaging anti muslim rhetoric are evidence that nothing will change while any of these jokers with their heads in the sand run the country
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    edited June 2014

    isam said:

    Guardian will cease hard copy production in 2015

    EDIT: Link removed

    My browser says that is a scam link - not finding a link to the article by navigating from the Guardian front page.
    Kippers believe any old shite on the internet, despite the warnings

    *Innocent face*
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2014

    isam said:

    Guardian will cease hard copy production in 2015

    http://shrturl.co/2Uam2

    Spoof and I'm getting a warning about that site.
    Oh sorry

    I thought that but saw the date and time and thought it was ok

    Will delete linkage

    EDIT Oh, its too late
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    DavidL said:

    I would be more than slightly surprised that Cameron would be quite so vocal in coming out against someone who will be in a position to be at least administratively difficult if he was not very confident that he could stop him.

    Just one more point on this, the one thing that would be worse for an actual attempted renegotiation than failing to stop Juncker is succeeding in stopping him. The European Parliament would be hopping mad, anyone who supports the democratization process will start to think it can only be done by getting rid of Britain, and any attempt at an actual treaty change, which was already unbelievably hard because it involves 28 member states that all have their own agendas, each with multiple veto points, will be met with somebody's gloating revenge veto.
    You really think the European Parliament would have ever been happy with power returning to the nation states under any circumstance? They're arch-federalists. They're going to fight tooth and nail against any repatriation. The only way they would ever vote for the deal is if the nation states arm twisted them into it. That possibility is incredibly slim, but it will exist regardless of how angry they are. A far bigger danger to Cameron is that further powers are transferred without treaty change, showing how weak his referendum lock is. That's going to happen regardless of the appointee, but it might happen less without Juncker.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    isam said:

    Much as I am not impressed by May today, the Lib Dem and Labour MP's that are suggesting that the govt are engaging anti muslim rhetoric are evidence that nothing will change while any of these jokers with their heads in the sand run the country

    That's the real problem. All this stuff started off really small decades ago and the only reason it got so big was because PC types ignored it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Isam, the desire to play the race card (euracism, anyone?) remains strong. You don't need to actually bother responding to the points someone raises if they're nasty old bigots you can label, laugh at, then ignore.

    Of course, constantly playing the race card after letting rip with immigration (which remains far too high) has led to lots of people becoming disengaged from politics, and the rise of UKIP. The Conservatives may be willing to tackle extremism (although I'm significantly unimpressed with May's approach, provoking a needless intra-Cabinet spat) but I have less faith in the Lib Dems and Labour.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    The Guardian's paper operation is a complete money sink as a review of GMG's accounts quickly reveals. They should have ceased production of the physical paper yesterday.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited June 2014
    MrJones said:

    isam said:

    Much as I am not impressed by May today, the Lib Dem and Labour MP's that are suggesting that the govt are engaging anti muslim rhetoric are evidence that nothing will change while any of these jokers with their heads in the sand run the country

    That's the real problem. All this stuff started off really small decades ago and the only reason it got so big was because PC types ignored it.
    It really is jaw-dropping. I don't expect left wingers to completely come to the same beliefs as me about this topic, but the fact that they all read threads like the last few PB ones and post about how right-wingers are being bigots, without any condemnation of the actual bigotry from these Muslim schools, demonstrates how utterly hypocritical they are. You can have a sensible debate about public services or taxation levels with the more intelligent lefties, but when it comes to matters of immigration and integration they seem nearly universally to suffer from a sort of mental deficiency that prevents them from interpreting and judging facts with the same yardstick for everyone.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Tristram Hunt is lining himself up for a slapping from Gove.
  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    Socrates said:



    He was just asked a question in a gotcha interview and he gave an honest answer.

    Well, indeed - gotcha.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    MrJones said:


    I know it's common to get a bit more reactionary as you get older, but what happens if you're already an anti-semitic, old fascist?

    'Put Jewish singer in an oven, says Le Pen

    The founder of France’s National Front caused outrage yesterday by saying that a popular Jewish singer should be put in an oven. Two weeks after topping the polls in the European elections, the party was on the defensive after the latest in a long line of anti-Semitic cracks by Jean-Marie Le Pen.'

    http://tinyurl.com/nm5kx84

    I think he's bitter at his daughter doing better than him.
    That and he's a bigot.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    ToryJim said:

    Tristram Hunt is lining himself up for a slapping from Gove.

    His heart really isn't in it..
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Socrates said:

    MrJones said:

    isam said:

    Much as I am not impressed by May today, the Lib Dem and Labour MP's that are suggesting that the govt are engaging anti muslim rhetoric are evidence that nothing will change while any of these jokers with their heads in the sand run the country

    That's the real problem. All this stuff started off really small decades ago and the only reason it got so big was because PC types ignored it.
    It really is jaw-dropping. I don't expect left wingers to completely come to the same beliefs as me about this topic, but the fact that they all read threads like the last few PB ones and post about how right-wingers are being bigots, without any condemnation of the actual bigotry from these Muslim schools, demonstrates how utterly hypocritical they are. You can have a sensible debate about public services or taxation levels with the more intelligent lefties, but when it comes to matters of immigration and integration they seem nearly universally to suffer from a sort of mental deficiency that prevents them from interpreting and judging facts with the same yardstick for everyone.
    PC is their religion. Secularization doesn't stop naturally religious people being religious they just get religious about an ideology instead.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    I say this now and will take bets

    Theresa May will never be leader of the Conservative Party
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. 56, to be fair, the excitable DJ did ask if Farage would prefer:
    A) a group of Romanian men
    B) some German children
    moving in next door. I would've thought both would be cause for concern.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Bloody hell, Tristam Hunt is that shite, even John Bercow tells him I hope he is about to finish his speech.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Rexel56 said:

    Socrates said:



    He was just asked a question in a gotcha interview and he gave an honest answer.

    Well, indeed - gotcha.
    Except it wasn't a gotcha. Which is why lefties like you have had to deliberately lie about his answer in order to make him look bad. It reveals more about the ugliness and unpleasantness of the establishment than it does about Farage. The Great British public intuitively understood this, which is why UKIP went on to win the European elections after it. Your racism smears don't work any more with anyone but partisan lefty idiots.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Also is Tristam Hunt against all boys and all girls schools?

    As the product of an all boys school, it is great for your education.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Mr. 56, to be fair, the excitable DJ did ask if Farage would prefer:
    A) a group of Romanian men
    B) some German children
    moving in next door. I would've thought both would be cause for concern.

    B) was his own children!!
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Socrates said:

    DavidL said:

    I would be more than slightly surprised that Cameron would be quite so vocal in coming out against someone who will be in a position to be at least administratively difficult if he was not very confident that he could stop him.

    Just one more point on this, the one thing that would be worse for an actual attempted renegotiation than failing to stop Juncker is succeeding in stopping him. The European Parliament would be hopping mad, anyone who supports the democratization process will start to think it can only be done by getting rid of Britain, and any attempt at an actual treaty change, which was already unbelievably hard because it involves 28 member states that all have their own agendas, each with multiple veto points, will be met with somebody's gloating revenge veto.
    You really think the European Parliament would have ever been happy with power returning to the nation states under any circumstance? They're arch-federalists. They're going to fight tooth and nail against any repatriation. The only way they would ever vote for the deal is if the nation states arm twisted them into it. That possibility is incredibly slim, but it will exist regardless of how angry they are. A far bigger danger to Cameron is that further powers are transferred without treaty change, showing how weak his referendum lock is. That's going to happen regardless of the appointee, but it might happen less without Juncker.
    It's not just parliament, it's also people in other member states seeing the UK blocking democratic reform. You can't use the threat of leaving to extract concessions from people who want you to leave.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 13s

    A spokesman for Brunskill Management says comedian and actor Rik Mayall has died aged 56
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Eagles, I am willing to conduct an exhaustive review of girls' sixth form colleges to ascertain just how good or bad their education is. Shouldn't take me more than 6-7 years.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Eagles, greatly surprised by that. RIP Rik Mayall.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKfbSHW9uGA
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 13s

    A spokesman for Brunskill Management says comedian and actor Rik Mayall has died aged 56

    Holy Hell :(
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Mr Dancer, on many occasions, I have been compared to Flashheart.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    DavidL said:

    I would be more than slightly surprised that Cameron would be quite so vocal in coming out against someone who will be in a position to be at least administratively difficult if he was not very confident that he could stop him.

    Just one more point on this, the one thing that would be worse for an actual attempted renegotiation than failing to stop Juncker is succeeding in stopping him. The European Parliament would be hopping mad, anyone who supports the democratization process will start to think it can only be done by getting rid of Britain, and any attempt at an actual treaty change, which was already unbelievably hard because it involves 28 member states that all have their own agendas, each with multiple veto points, will be met with somebody's gloating revenge veto.
    You really think the European Parliament would have ever been happy with power returning to the nation states under any circumstance? They're arch-federalists. They're going to fight tooth and nail against any repatriation. The only way they would ever vote for the deal is if the nation states arm twisted them into it. That possibility is incredibly slim, but it will exist regardless of how angry they are. A far bigger danger to Cameron is that further powers are transferred without treaty change, showing how weak his referendum lock is. That's going to happen regardless of the appointee, but it might happen less without Juncker.
    It's not just parliament, it's also people in other member states seeing the UK blocking democratic reform. You can't use the threat of leaving to extract concessions from people who want you to leave.
    Which countries do you think support the President of the Commission being appointed by the composition of the European parliament over agreement of the nation states?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Bloody hell, Tristam Hunt is that shite, even John Bercow tells him I hope he is about to finish his speech.

    He got a suitable response from Gove.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Gove says no government has done more to tackle extremism than this one under Theresa May.''

    A bit like saying no government has done more to promote mobile phone use, or green energy production.

    Gladstone may have had some great reforming ministries, but these three issues were indeed sadly neglected in them.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 13s

    A spokesman for Brunskill Management says comedian and actor Rik Mayall has died aged 56

    Oh dear.... :(

    I wonder how much that Quad bike accident he had affected his health?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 13s

    A spokesman for Brunskill Management says comedian and actor Rik Mayall has died aged 56

    Dammit. Really sad now. That is terrible. :-(
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 13s

    A spokesman for Brunskill Management says comedian and actor Rik Mayall has died aged 56

    Oh dear.... :(

    I wonder how much that Quad bike accident he had affected his health?
    It was 16 years ago, it's possible I suppose depends what cause of death was.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    edited June 2014
    Sleazy broken Labour and UKIP on the slide.

    Ashcroft National Poll, 6-8 June: CON 28% (+3), LAB 32% (-2), LD 8% (+2), UKIP 17% (-2). Details on @ConHome, 4pm
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 13s

    A spokesman for Brunskill Management says comedian and actor Rik Mayall has died aged 56

    Dammit. Really sad now. That is terrible. :-(
    Felicity Morse ‏@FelicityMorse 1m

    Rik Mayall ran his Twitter account like a pro. RIP.

    pic.twitter.com/1ZXi22h0CG
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    ToryJim said:

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 13s

    A spokesman for Brunskill Management says comedian and actor Rik Mayall has died aged 56

    Oh dear.... :(

    I wonder how much that Quad bike accident he had affected his health?
    It was 16 years ago, it's possible I suppose depends what cause of death was.
    16 years ago? Wow..even that seems like only a few years ago to me...

    Time, you bastard.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Sleazy broken Labour and UKIP on the slide.

    Ashcroft National Poll, 6-8 June: CON 28% (+3), LAB 32% (-2), LD 8% (+2), UKIP 17% (-2). Details on @ConHome, 4pm

    Intriguing, I have to say that these Ashcroft polls are interesting but seem somewhat turbulent.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 18s

    "Improving the NHS" at the top of the list of voters' priorities for "me & my family" in the Ashcroft National Poll:

    pic.twitter.com/TTTpmBNgmu
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Slackbladder, something that seemed weird to me the other day was that Resident Evil 2 came out in 1998... or 16 years ago. Doesn't seem that long.

    Glad voice-acting's moved on, though.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Socrates, UKIP got 27% in the Euros, compared to labour and conservatives just behind. You many call this 'winning', and of course some may agree with you. But 73% voted against their principle plank in these elections namely leaving the EU at once. Some might call that losing.
    These were not elections for anybody to form anything, certainly not anything so boring as a government. I think it does you're argument no great credit to term them 'winners'.

    PS
    Sorry to hear about Rik Mayall. A vibrant talent.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    edited June 2014
    ToryJim said:

    Sleazy broken Labour and UKIP on the slide.

    Ashcroft National Poll, 6-8 June: CON 28% (+3), LAB 32% (-2), LD 8% (+2), UKIP 17% (-2). Details on @ConHome, 4pm

    Intriguing, I have to say that these Ashcroft polls are interesting but seem somewhat turbulent.
    Yes, it is turbulent but this, together with Populus showing a 1% Lab lead this morning, means it's a better polling day for Con so far - suggests the bounce in the Lab lead post Euros may now be starting to fade.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,161

    Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 18s

    "Improving the NHS" at the top of the list of voters' priorities for "me & my family" in the Ashcroft National Poll:

    pic.twitter.com/TTTpmBNgmu

    Whereas "screwing up the NHS" would appear to be at the top of the list of government priorities.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    ToryJim said:

    Sleazy broken Labour and UKIP on the slide.

    Ashcroft National Poll, 6-8 June: CON 28% (+3), LAB 32% (-2), LD 8% (+2), UKIP 17% (-2). Details on @ConHome, 4pm

    Intriguing, I have to say that these Ashcroft polls are interesting but seem somewhat turbulent.
    Is wise to remember that in Newark, Ashcroft under estimated Con, and over estimated Lab and UKIP.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Matthew Goodwin ‏@GoodwinMJ 1m
    Ukip only need 7% to have real impact in 2015. Their current average is twice that -14%. Someone tell mystic Dan http://bit.ly/1uKX8W8
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    How many MPs cannot say secretary? It's not pronounced "seckertary". Fumes.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Rentool, you mean like the 2004 GP contracts? Or proposing to reduce the NHS budget?

    On a non-party political note, I wonder if we'll have an interesting discussion about whether or not certain activities, behaviours and foodstuffs should be subjected to tax increases or reductions based on the impact they have on the health of individuals and, therefore, the eventual cost to the taxpayer. Cigarettes and alcohol already have this, of course.

    The demographic challenge for the NHS is going to be a serious challenge for whoever's in power.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    ToryJim said:

    Sleazy broken Labour and UKIP on the slide.

    Ashcroft National Poll, 6-8 June: CON 28% (+3), LAB 32% (-2), LD 8% (+2), UKIP 17% (-2). Details on @ConHome, 4pm

    Intriguing, I have to say that these Ashcroft polls are interesting but seem somewhat turbulent.
    Is wise to remember that in Newark, Ashcroft under estimated Con, and over estimated Lab and UKIP.
    He also overstimated the Lib Dems...
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    ToryJim said:

    Sleazy broken Labour and UKIP on the slide.

    Ashcroft National Poll, 6-8 June: CON 28% (+3), LAB 32% (-2), LD 8% (+2), UKIP 17% (-2). Details on @ConHome, 4pm

    Intriguing, I have to say that these Ashcroft polls are interesting but seem somewhat turbulent.
    This is all Margin of Error movement.

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    ToryJim said:

    Sleazy broken Labour and UKIP on the slide.

    Ashcroft National Poll, 6-8 June: CON 28% (+3), LAB 32% (-2), LD 8% (+2), UKIP 17% (-2). Details on @ConHome, 4pm

    Intriguing, I have to say that these Ashcroft polls are interesting but seem somewhat turbulent.
    I think all the turbulence is coming from the weighted-up C1 and C2 sample.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Alas there will be no Guardian ICM poll today, a reliable source informs me.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Farage and Romanians next door?
    Its no use his apologists defending him, once the accusations broke after his remarks he said they were wrong. Did he say he was tired and no sleep, or was that another gaffe? Anyway he himself says they were wrong. But he is always doing that, chirping his dog whistles and then saying oops sorry.
    I think any 'tired and weary' excuses ought to wear thin when he is seen arriving in an overseas hotel at 4 in the morning on the eve of a by election. The fact that the minoskirted woman he was with had a walking stick is neither here nor there
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Alas there will be no Guardian ICM poll today, a reliable source informs me.

    Grr.

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    ToryJim said:

    Sleazy broken Labour and UKIP on the slide.

    Ashcroft National Poll, 6-8 June: CON 28% (+3), LAB 32% (-2), LD 8% (+2), UKIP 17% (-2). Details on @ConHome, 4pm

    Intriguing, I have to say that these Ashcroft polls are interesting but seem somewhat turbulent.
    Is wise to remember that in Newark, Ashcroft under estimated Con, and over estimated Lab and UKIP.
    ?
    Con -3, Lab +2, UKIP +1

    That's a pretty good effort for a constituency poll.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark_by-election,_2014#Polling
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates, UKIP got 27% in the Euros, compared to labour and conservatives just behind. You many call this 'winning', and of course some may agree with you. But 73% voted against their principle plank in these elections namely leaving the EU at once. Some might call that losing.
    These were not elections for anybody to form anything, certainly not anything so boring as a government. I think it does you're argument no great credit to term them 'winners'.

    PS
    Sorry to hear about Rik Mayall. A vibrant talent.

    The Conservatives platform was based on reducing the EU's power, and Labour's campaign wasn't about the EU at all. The only party making a pro-EU case were the EU, and their vote was devastated. So you can try to spin this all you want, but nobody likes a Europhile.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Socrates, UKIP got 27% in the Euros, compared to labour and conservatives just behind. You many call this 'winning', and of course some may agree with you. But 73% voted against their principle plank in these elections namely leaving the EU at once. Some might call that losing.
    These were not elections for anybody to form anything, certainly not anything so boring as a government. I think it does you're argument no great credit to term them 'winners'.

    UKIP received more votes than any other single party - of course they won the European elections.

    If it had been an STV election and they had proved to be transfer repellent, and so consequently failed to win the most number of MEP seats, then you might have some claim to say that they did not win the elections. But since we used party-list PR they didn't have to worry about that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    New Thread
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,525

    Socrates, UKIP got 27% in the Euros, compared to labour and conservatives just behind. You many call this 'winning', and of course some may agree with you. But 73% voted against their principle plank in these elections namely leaving the EU at once. Some might call that losing.
    These were not elections for anybody to form anything, certainly not anything so boring as a government. I think it does you're argument no great credit to term them 'winners'.

    PS
    Sorry to hear about Rik Mayall. A vibrant talent.

    Coming first is generally considered to be winning.

    No party has won 50%+1 since 1935.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Perhaps Lord Ashcroft should ask people how they want to pay for their NHS demands and ambitions.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,525

    Mr. Eagles, I am willing to conduct an exhaustive review of girls' sixth form colleges to ascertain just how good or bad their education is. Shouldn't take me more than 6-7 years.

    How about an extensive review of convents, to see if nuns are maintaining their vows of chastity?

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,525
    MrJones said:


    I know it's common to get a bit more reactionary as you get older, but what happens if you're already an anti-semitic, old fascist?

    'Put Jewish singer in an oven, says Le Pen

    The founder of France’s National Front caused outrage yesterday by saying that a popular Jewish singer should be put in an oven. Two weeks after topping the polls in the European elections, the party was on the defensive after the latest in a long line of anti-Semitic cracks by Jean-Marie Le Pen.'

    http://tinyurl.com/nm5kx84

    I think he's bitter at his daughter doing better than him.
    The disturbing thing is that there are parts of France where such a remark will be well-received.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Obviously I agree with you Mr F ... However ... What have they 'won'. Their view was considered a clear abd significant minority by the electorate that could be bothered to vote. To imply that the nation is swinging to them is absurd. Indeed as subsequent polling I believe showed, the trend towards staying in the EU actually hardened.
This discussion has been closed.