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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Imagine how funny it would be if neither Lib + Con or Lib + Lab or even the addition of UKIP added up to 326...

    Add that to a YES vote - power held in theory by the nats for a year.

    That'd be pretty damned funny.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Charles said:

    Thanks to Rod for this. That regression chart is really quite remarkable: R² of 0.95 - that means it's a pretty damned good fit of the data.

    Problem is that the 0.95 is driven by two data points (-2, -15) and (+13.5, +7) which means that excel can force a line where there is insufficient data
    Not so. Removing those to data points reduces R^2 only fractionally to .9356 and leaves the forecast essentially unchanged at -8.4%. (y=1.5254-0.1225)

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Oh dear Alec Salmond!

    The Media Blog @TheMediaTweets · 59m
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  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    ToryJim said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Thanks Rod.

    On your graph it does look as though Ed Milliband is the most ineffective LOTO for Labour since Michael Foot, LOL.

    The writings on the wall for Labour and has been for some time.

    Still think it's going to be Conservatives most votes and seats, but if Labour does lose by 8.4% next year it will surely end up in a Conservative majority.

    I just whacked some figures into electoral calculus of con 39 lab 31 ld 18 and UKIP 5.5 which gave seats of 327:262:33:0 for a majority of 4.
    A Tory party with a majority of four would be ungovernable... the Eurosceptics would run riot.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    A tad hypocritical?

    Political Scrapbook @PSbook · 2h
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  • CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    Pulpstar said:

    Imagine how funny it would be if neither Lib + Con or Lib + Lab or even the addition of UKIP added up to 326...

    Add that to a YES vote - power held in theory by the nats for a year.

    That'd be pretty damned funny.

    That's such an amusing outcome that I can't see how it won't actually happen. Any idea where I can bet on such a result?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Pulpstar said:

    Imagine how funny it would be if neither Lib + Con or Lib + Lab or even the addition of UKIP added up to 326...

    Add that to a YES vote - power held in theory by the nats for a year.

    That'd be pretty damned funny.

    I think you would find that it wasn't funny at all. The risk of such an outcome, or of an outcome where a coalition including the LibDems was possible numerically but not politically, is why I'm moving my pension fund and other investments away from dependence on the UK economy.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Rexel56 said:

    ToryJim said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Thanks Rod.

    On your graph it does look as though Ed Milliband is the most ineffective LOTO for Labour since Michael Foot, LOL.

    The writings on the wall for Labour and has been for some time.

    Still think it's going to be Conservatives most votes and seats, but if Labour does lose by 8.4% next year it will surely end up in a Conservative majority.

    I just whacked some figures into electoral calculus of con 39 lab 31 ld 18 and UKIP 5.5 which gave seats of 327:262:33:0 for a majority of 4.
    A Tory party with a majority of four would be ungovernable... the Eurosceptics would run riot.

    Oh I'm sure the idiots would throw a regular nutty, but they'll do that regardless of how big a majority is achieved.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,165
    Labour has a playbook ready to dust off to tackle the UKIP threat - Blue Labour. It looks like the latte-sippers of Islington are in the bag, so we need to focus on the working class natural Labour supporters, and bring them back home for next May. Let's make a start by pledging a significant increase in the minimum wage, rather than just aspiring to do so.

    Oh, and Ed says 'friends' because he dare not say 'comrades'!
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Tony Blair is s*um and will always be until he apologies for the grievous crimes he has committed in the name of this country.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Richard_Nabavi

    Rats, sinking ships, But the Titanic is "unsinkable*.

    OK. I know no one at the time actually said that. but it sounds better
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Pulpstar said:

    Imagine how funny it would be if neither Lib + Con or Lib + Lab or even the addition of UKIP added up to 326...

    Add that to a YES vote - power held in theory by the nats for a year.

    That'd be pretty damned funny.

    I think you would find that it wasn't funny at all. The risk of such an outcome, or of an outcome where a coalition including the LibDems was possible numerically but not politically, is why I'm moving my pension fund and other investments away from dependence on the UK economy.
    Quite Mr Nabavi, it would desperately undermine international confidence
  • Former Tories will be (anecdotally - are) terrified of the possibility of Prime Minister Ed Miliband.

    70% or more of the country will be deeply committed to the 'Keep the weirdo out' bandwagon. Just look at that face. Just listen to that voice. PM? Nah.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RodCrosby said:

    Charles said:

    Thanks to Rod for this. That regression chart is really quite remarkable: R² of 0.95 - that means it's a pretty damned good fit of the data.

    Problem is that the 0.95 is driven by two data points (-2, -15) and (+13.5, +7) which means that excel can force a line where there is insufficient data
    Not so. Removing those to data points reduces R^2 only fractionally to .9356 and leaves the forecast essentially unchanged at -8.4%. (y=1.5254-0.1225)

    As an aside, for the last 10 years or so, I've been musing about S-curve regression lines. Have you seen any papers on them? Rational is that regression analysis only works within an upper and lower band & then the relationships shift (admittedly I focus on the correlation between growth and value)
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @SeanT

    Lord, it's hard to be humble,
    When you'r perfect in every way.
    ...(Dr Hook "Bankrupt")

    I know the feeling well Sean.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited May 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @Richard_Nabavi

    Rats, sinking ships, But the Titanic is "unsinkable*.

    OK. I know no one at the time actually said that. but it sounds better

    It's 100 years this week since an arguably worse maritime disaster, the "forgotten" Empress of Ireland sinking...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_of_Ireland

    She went down in just 14 minutes, and still holds the record for the most number of passengers killed on a liner in peacetime, more than the Titanic...

    The skipper lived in Crosby.
  • peterouldpeterould Posts: 11
    Charles said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Charles said:

    Thanks to Rod for this. That regression chart is really quite remarkable: R² of 0.95 - that means it's a pretty damned good fit of the data.

    Problem is that the 0.95 is driven by two data points (-2, -15) and (+13.5, +7) which means that excel can force a line where there is insufficient data
    Not so. Removing those to data points reduces R^2 only fractionally to .9356 and leaves the forecast essentially unchanged at -8.4%. (y=1.5254-0.1225)

    As an aside, for the last 10 years or so, I've been musing about S-curve regression lines. Have you seen any papers on them? Rational is that regression analysis only works within an upper and lower band & then the relationships shift (admittedly I focus on the correlation between growth and value)
    Charles said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Charles said:

    Thanks to Rod for this. That regression chart is really quite remarkable: R² of 0.95 - that means it's a pretty damned good fit of the data.

    Problem is that the 0.95 is driven by two data points (-2, -15) and (+13.5, +7) which means that excel can force a line where there is insufficient data
    Not so. Removing those to data points reduces R^2 only fractionally to .9356 and leaves the forecast essentially unchanged at -8.4%. (y=1.5254-0.1225)

    As an aside, for the last 10 years or so, I've been musing about S-curve regression lines. Have you seen any papers on them? Rational is that regression analysis only works within an upper and lower band & then the relationships shift (admittedly I focus on the correlation between growth and value)
    As in logisitic regression? Works well with bounded sets (so for example, a percentage outcome like vote share).
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Smarmeron said:

    @MarqueeMark

    I would like to know why Dave and George "raised the Titanic" then rebuilt it exactly the same, but without any lifeboats this time, and set sail to break the Atlantic crossing record.

    Can you show us the data showing the massive increase in consumer home lending to back up this silly claim ?
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Essentially in past Parliaments the Opposition picked up a lot of floating votes which then in whole or in part floated back. This time, the Opposition hasn't picked up much (partly because of UKIP), but equally there isn't much to float back. Rod's case depends assuming that people who have been persistently Labour since 2011 would now suddenly vote Tory or LibDem. Looking at the past doesn't give a basis for that.

    The polls and the Euros and the local elections are all pointing to the same modest Labour lead over the Tories. Cameron's hopes really hinge on differential swingback from UKIP.

    You're forgetting the red liberals Labour have picked up from the government. Eds hopes hinge on them not drifting back, too.
    No, that's the voters I was talking about who have been steadily Labour since 2011. Do you think a sudden LibDem revival is likely? As I've said for at least a year, I'm more confident of these than I am of habitual Labour voters (some of whom have indeed since drifted off to UKIP).

    Of course, Clegg's departure and the dissolution of the coalition (into confidence & supply) could be fatal for this final bulwark. I can't see it happening this week but autumn or the New Year are still possibilities.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited May 2014
    @TGOHF

    Just as soon as you show me the country being held aloft by "The march of the makers", and factories investing heavily in new manufacturing methods instead of state subsidised labour.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @philipjcowley: ICM's @martinboon reports that the BPC have said they've broken no rule. In which case the client declaration requirement is meaningless.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Scott_P said:

    @philipjcowley: ICM's @martinboon reports that the BPC have said they've broken no rule. In which case the client declaration requirement is meaningless.

    I preferred my tweet saying the same thing.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Smarmeron said:

    @TGOHF

    Just as soon as you show me the country being held aloft by "The march of the makers", and factories investing heavily in new manufacturing methods instead of state subsidised labour.

    You want me to prove your wild assertions for you ?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TGOHF

    Not really, just stick to your usual routine.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @SeanT @Sean_F

    George W. Bush had approval ratings over 90% after 9/11. His clear denunciations of al-Qaeda and impromptu speeches led to Democrats praising his "moral clarity".

    But yes, Tony Blair does look very poorly. I would generally think a good Western leader would achieve the following:

    - Sound economic management
    - Prudent and effective foreign policy
    - Preservation of protections on individual liberty
    - Expansion of opportunity

    At a push, you can give him 1/4.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    edited May 2014
    So, just as I've finished going through the individual council websites - the North-West Votes website adds a pdf of the individual Counting Area Results - Here
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    ICM coming under fire.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Imagine how funny it would be if neither Lib + Con or Lib + Lab or even the addition of UKIP added up to 326...

    Add that to a YES vote - power held in theory by the nats for a year.

    That'd be pretty damned funny.

    I think you would find that it wasn't funny at all. The risk of such an outcome, or of an outcome where a coalition including the LibDems was possible numerically but not politically, is why I'm moving my pension fund and other investments away from dependence on the UK economy.
    *cough*

    As someone with a bit of money to park, in coming months, where do you advise me to put it? So I can avoid UK/indyref/eurogeddon instability?

    It's difficult to find safe havens. I am already invested in London property and don't want to duplicate that.
    You're still a way off retirement, so equities is the usual recommendation. If you want to avoid the UK/Europe, you could put it in a S&P 500 fund or an MSCI developing markets one.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @SeanT

    Cayman Islands?
    It finds favour with many of our leading lights.
  • HopiSenHopiSen Posts: 48



    You're forgetting the red liberals Labour have picked up from the government. Eds hopes hinge on them not drifting back, too.

    No, that's the voters I was talking about who have been steadily Labour since 2011. Do you think a sudden LibDem revival is likely? As I've said for at least a year, I'm more confident of these than I am of habitual Labour voters (some of whom have indeed since drifted off to UKIP).

    There's been a steady, gradual decline in Labour's poll share among 2010 LibDems.

    I've been tracking the numbers semi-regularly. excluding those who say they won't vote/don't know, Labour had 39.4% last ten polls of July 2012, 37.2 in Jan 2013, and 32.6 in July 13. I've just checked the last 5 regular yougovs, and they averaged 29.8%. Some improvement in all of UKIP, LD, Grn and Con over period.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Smarmeron said:

    @TGOHF

    Just as soon as you show me the country being held aloft by "The march of the makers", and factories investing heavily in new manufacturing methods instead of state subsidised labour.

    "... state subsidised labour"

    I do wish people wouldn't use that expression because it gives a false impression of what is actually going on. If people instead said private company profits today are being made possible by the government stealing from the wealth of our children and grandchildren then we might start to get a sensible debate about welfare, in particular in-work and housing benefits, wealth creation and where that wealth is going. Who knows it might even lead to a system of taxation that is equitable, just and efficient.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Smarmeron said:

    @TGOHF

    Not really, just stick to your usual routine.

    Ok - I'll use facts and data.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10848628/Business-investment-growth-suggests-UK-economic-recovery-is-broadening.html

    "Business investment is enjoying its longest period of sustained growth in 16 years, in further signs that Britain's economic recovery is broadening out.
    The UK economy expanded at its fastest annual pace since 2007 in the first three months of the year, official data confirmed on Thursday, as a strong increase in business investment was supported by a rise in consumer spending."


    "Growth in services output was unrevised at 0.9pc on the quarter, while the manufacturing sector expanded by 1.4pc, up from an initial estimate of 1.3pc. A survey by the Confederation of Business Industry on Thursday indicated that manufacturers, which power around a tenth of the economy, are on course for another quarter of strong growth.

    Order books picked up slightly in the three months to May, the CBI said, while business optimism for the next three months remained close to a 15-year high.
    Construction output grew by 0.6pc, according to the ONS, up from an initial estimate of 0.3pc."

    http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/news/DebtFigures2014.asp

    "In spite of 20% rise in spending, outstanding balances fall by £8.9 billion in 5 years as customers use their cards more wisely
    UK credit card debt has fallen by 13% since 2008 while spending has increased by £26 billion as consumers use their cards more prudently, according to data published today [30.01.2014] by The UK Cards Association. Outstanding balances on all credit cards in the UK have fallen by £8.9 billion - down from £65.8 billion in 2008 to £56.9 billion by December 2013."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25547562

    "Homeowners are not yet relying on rising house prices to withdraw equity from their homes for other purchases, figures suggest.

    The Bank of England said that housing equity withdrawal remained negative in the third quarter of the year.

    There was a £10.4bn injection of equity into UK homes, as sales remained low compared with the housing boom years."
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Richard Conway ‏@richard_conway · 3 mins
    Reports police are investigating attempts to fix Scotland v Nigeria friendly in London tomorrow. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10858328/Police-investigate-World-Cup-friendly-between-Scotland-and-Nigeria.html

    Scotland can't be that desperate to win, can they?
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Half an hour until latest ashcroft poll.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @HurstLlama

    Why not use it? are you saying it is inaccurate? A turd by any other name ......smells the same.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    Scotland can't be that desperate to win, can they?

    Depends if they can get their star striker on the pitch...

    @Sun_Politics: First Minister of Silly Walks
    (Picture: PA) twitter.com/Sun_Politics/status/471293406606786560/photo/1
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    corporeal said:

    Half an hour until latest ashcroft poll.

    UKIP surge maybe ?

    THe average bod will see that they've WON and so won't think UKIP is a wasted vote. You know how little the man on the street pays attention...
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    It is broadly in accord with the Lebo and Norpoth PM approval model.

    Sorry for being thick, but what is 'lebo' pls?

    Lebo is an academic, as is Norpoth. Lebo and Norpoth advocate using Prime Ministerial approval ratings to predict election results.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TGOHF


    "Thursday indicated that manufacturers, which power around a tenth of the economy"

    This is where the problem lay, and still lies.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Pulpstar said:

    corporeal said:

    Half an hour until latest ashcroft poll.

    UKIP surge maybe ?

    THe average bod will see that they've WON and so won't think UKIP is a wasted vote. You know how little the man on the street pays attention...
    Wouldn't be surprised. Be interested to see if there's shift as the Euros get further into past.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited May 2014
    SeanT said:

    As someone with a bit of money to park, in coming months, where do you advise me to put it? So I can avoid UK/indyref/eurogeddon instability?

    It's difficult to find safe havens. I am already invested in London property and don't want to duplicate that.

    I can't give you advice, but I can tell you what my thinking is. I don't think there are any 'safe havens' as such unless you are prepared to accept zero or negative real returns. I'm still mainly invested in shares, but I'm shifting investments away from mid-range UK companies (which depend on the performance of the UK economy) towards a mixture of foreign (especially US and some European) markets and UK-quoted large cap companies with an international reach and which are not in industries likely to be shafted by Miliband. Examples are Rolls Royce, Compass, Unilever, Diageo, GlaxoSmithKline etc etc. In fact, overall the FTSE100 is not particularly closely linked to the UK economy, but I'm staying away from utilities and retailers, and I shall probably move out of housebuilders before the Labour conference.

    I think you posted a comment a while back saying you didn't want to manage investments yourself, which is very good sense if you don't want to spend the time researching and/or you don't think you've got the right skills. In that case a simple option is a mixture of low-cost tracker funds which track the FTSE100, the S & P 500, the European market, and a small proportion in emerging/Far East markets. Something like 40%, 30%, 20%, 10% makes sense to me, although it's a higher non-UK percentage than most people would recommend.

    Traditionally the advice has been to keep at least some of the portfolio in bonds rather than shares, but they are a bit tricky at the moment because of the expectation that interest rates will rise (which means the capital value of existing bonds, stuck on low interest rates, will fall).
  • kierankieran Posts: 77
    A couple of methodological points on this.

    1 - What relevance do we think the political events of the 1980s have for today given demographic change, the rise of UKIP, the decline in class voting and partisanship? If we think it has relatively little relevance then how useful is it in predicting election outcomes today?

    2 - If anyone went to a scientific journal with data based on a sample size 8 they would certainly not get through the peer-review process. This is an intractable problem with this type of analysis.

    Those points don't mean it is useless information but that it is of limited value. What it shows is that generally there is a movement from opposition to government in the last year and that this varies from 1% to 17%.

    So it is likely that there will be some movement this time but I would suggest what happened in 82 to 83 or 86 to 87 won't tell us much about what will happen this time.

    One thing I would be interested in is any research on differential voting patterns. We see this in America where demographic groups that support the Democrats are much less likely to turn out in a mid term year than demographic groups which support the Republicans. Hence part of the reason why the Democrats will do badly this year. Is there any evidence to suggest this has started to happen in the UK.

    I only mention this as groups that are more likely to support Labour - young people, ethnic minorities and DE social group voters are probably less likely to vote in local elections than GEs. This could be important given the increased age skew in party support and the rising number of ethnic minority voters. But I'm not sure if the turnout differential actually is worse in LEs than GEs.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    corporeal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    corporeal said:

    Half an hour until latest ashcroft poll.

    UKIP surge maybe ?

    THe average bod will see that they've WON and so won't think UKIP is a wasted vote. You know how little the man on the street pays attention...
    Wouldn't be surprised. Be interested to see if there's shift as the Euros get further into past.
    Depends how close they get in Newark. If UKIP win there (Which I hope they don't, and judging by the Euro results shouldn't...) then well all bets are off.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    SeanT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Imagine how funny it would be if neither Lib + Con or Lib + Lab or even the addition of UKIP added up to 326...

    Add that to a YES vote - power held in theory by the nats for a year.

    That'd be pretty damned funny.

    I think you would find that it wasn't funny at all. The risk of such an outcome, or of an outcome where a coalition including the LibDems was possible numerically but not politically, is why I'm moving my pension fund and other investments away from dependence on the UK economy.
    *cough*

    As someone with a bit of money to park, in coming months, where do you advise me to put it? So I can avoid UK/indyref/eurogeddon instability?

    It's difficult to find safe havens. I am already invested in London property and don't want to duplicate that.
    Horse-racing.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Smarmeron said:

    @TGOHF


    "Thursday indicated that manufacturers, which power around a tenth of the economy"

    This is where the problem lay, and still lies.

    It was 18% in 1997, and troughed at around 8% in 2008.

    All under Labour.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Smarmeron said:

    @HurstLlama

    Why not use it? are you saying it is inaccurate? A turd by any other name ......smells the same.

    I'd prefer that it wasn't used because it gives the impression that the state has money of its own. It doesn't, every penny that the state spends comes from taxpayers, either current ones or those of the future. So the state doesn't subsidise employers, taxpayers do or the children and grandchildren of today's taxpayers do. All the while enough people remain convinced that public spending has nothing to do with them or their's we will not have the debate that is needed and without that we cannot have a sense of common purpose.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Imagine how funny it would be if neither Lib + Con or Lib + Lab or even the addition of UKIP added up to 326...

    Add that to a YES vote - power held in theory by the nats for a year.

    That'd be pretty damned funny.

    I think you would find that it wasn't funny at all. The risk of such an outcome, or of an outcome where a coalition including the LibDems was possible numerically but not politically, is why I'm moving my pension fund and other investments away from dependence on the UK economy.
    *cough*

    As someone with a bit of money to park, in coming months, where do you advise me to put it? So I can avoid UK/indyref/eurogeddon instability?

    It's difficult to find safe havens. I am already invested in London property and don't want to duplicate that.
    Horse-racing.

    www.raceclear.co.uk is profitable providing you get on at the prices, and can get enough on. The biggest danger is being severely restricted before the 'long term' comes up though...

    I did it for a few months for smallish stakes, not sure how upscalable it is though because apparently its difficult to put even £25 ew on a decent 5-1 chance in an 8 runner race....
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    edited May 2014

    In note that Mr. Crosby's work above is based on this thing called the National Equivalent Vote Share (NEV). Now, according to OGH last week, by this measure (or projection, if you feel that way) UKIP's showing in the locals was a disaster for them and their public support is actually dropping like a paralysed falcon. So if OGH is correct how much of an impact will UKIP actually have on the GE?

    Effectively none. They'll poll about 5.5%, win no seats, assist a few noxious europhiles such as Ted Balls back into Parliament, Farage will duly be knifed by the Campaign for a Free Galilee, and once they lose the referendum in 2017, they'll fizzle.

    They'll end up like the SDP by about 1990, coming last in a by-election behind the Monster Raving Loonies.

    The wikipedia article about that is hilariously surreal:

    "The little media attention that the by-election attracted was focused on a bizarre row between Labour and the Raving Loonies. Relations between the Labour Party and the Loonies had never been good, but they reached a new low when the Labour agent tried erroneously to have the Loony candidate, party leader Screaming Lord Sutch, arrested ... In the event, when the votes were counted the SDP candidate, Jack Holmes, finished far behind the Official Monster Raving Loony Party... Within a week of the result, Owen announced that the party's National Executive had voted to dissolve the party, saying that it could not possibly continue after being beaten by the Raving Loonies."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democratic_Party_(UK,_1988)#The_end

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    "narcissitic personality disorder."

    Very common at most Premiership football clubs.

    "The swine are only paying me £200,00 a week and they forgot my birthday. After all I've done for them!"
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    kieran said:

    2 - If anyone went to a scientific journal with data based on a sample size 8 they would certainly not get through the peer-review process.

    Unless it was climate science, which has seen studies published using datasets based on the rings of one tree.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    Lennon said:

    So, just as I've finished going through the individual council websites - the North-West Votes website adds a pdf of the individual Counting Area Results - Here

    And the North-West counting areas in which UKIP won?

    Wyre (35.4%); South Ribble (34.6%); Hyndburn (34.6%); Blackpool (33.9%); Rossendale (31.5%); Cheshire West and Chester (29.9%); Carlisle (29.6%); Lancaster (26.7%); Stockport (26.1%)

    Worst performance was in Manchester with 15.9% (and they still came 2nd to Labour there)
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    One thing I have noticed from the local election results in Croydon is that the net swing from Conservative to Labour was less in the wards where UKIP did best, compared with the borough average. Thus it is misleading to think that UKIP merely "split" the Conservative vote, or "stole" Conservative votes.

    The Labour leads of only 636 votes in Croydon Central constituency sounds quite encouraging when I think of the contrast between the local election in 1986 and the general election in 1987.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Rod, if your central forecast, via the regression, is 8.4%, why do you only say that the Tories have "an outside, but not insignificant chance of a majority"? Surely a majority should be odds-on at that forecast?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    It'll be interesting to see where the Tory gains come from. I'd say it's pretty certain that Labour in London is off the table, so they are going to have to pick up a lot of LibDem seats and a fair few from Labour elsewhere. Presumably, factoring UKIP in renders Rod's entire thesis redundant.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    @SeanT - One more thing: whatever you do, make sure you understand the charges and their effect on investment returns. That is why low-cost trackers may be a good idea, but you need to look not only at the fund itself, but also the 'platform charge'. Unfortunately this is not simple to do, as it depends a lot on how much you invest and in what. For example, Hargreaves Lansdown (the biggest 'platform') provides really excellent service, but it gets pricey for largish investments (say £100K+) if you are invested in unit-trust funds (which is what they try to sell you). It is very cheap if you're invested in ETFs, investment trusts or shares directly.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Rod, if your central forecast, via the regression, is 8.4%, why do you only say that the Tories have "an outside, but not insignificant chance of a majority"? Surely a majority should be odds-on at that forecast?

    Natural caution, and Lib Dem incumbency. (^_-)

  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Socrates said:

    @SeanT @Sean_F

    George W. Bush had approval ratings over 90% after 9/11. His clear denunciations of al-Qaeda and impromptu speeches led to Democrats praising his "moral clarity".

    But yes, Tony Blair does look very poorly. I would generally think a good Western leader would achieve the following:

    - Sound economic management
    - Prudent and effective foreign policy
    - Preservation of protections on individual liberty
    - Expansion of opportunity

    At a push, you can give him 1/4.

    Which 1 would you give him? If you were thinking the last I'd have to disagree - social mobility declined under Labour. Did you mean expansion of opportunity to immigrate here?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TGOHF

    Tony Blair was as insane as Thatcher was, but we are where we are, except that if the excrement contacts the rotating vortex creator again, we really will get covered in it.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Presumably, factoring UKIP in renders Rod's entire thesis redundant.

    Why would it do that? Rod's thesis presumes that Governments recover vis-a-vis the Opposition in the last year of a Parliament. Recovering votes from UKIP would seem to be a blindingly obvious way for the Tories to do that over the next year.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    It'll be interesting to see where the Tory gains come from. I'd say it's pretty certain that Labour in London is off the table, so they are going to have to pick up a lot of LibDem seats and a fair few from Labour elsewhere.

    Dinnae forget the Scottish surge!
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    Very unusual for BBC One to cover by election results but on June 5 there is a This Week By Election special from 11.35pm to 3am covering Newark
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Lennon said:

    Lennon said:

    So, just as I've finished going through the individual council websites - the North-West Votes website adds a pdf of the individual Counting Area Results - Here

    And the North-West counting areas in which UKIP won?

    Wyre (35.4%); South Ribble (34.6%); Hyndburn (34.6%); Blackpool (33.9%); Rossendale (31.5%); Cheshire West and Chester (29.9%); Carlisle (29.6%); Lancaster (26.7%); Stockport (26.1%)

    Worst performance was in Manchester with 15.9% (and they still came 2nd to Labour there)
    Confirms - Sale & Wythenshawe East By-Election held in a bad spot for UKIP..

    I checked my area, North East Derbyshire:

    An Independence from Europe - 525

    BNP - 451

    Conservatives - 5350

    English Democrats - 256

    Greens - 1218

    Harmony - 50

    Labour - 7603

    Liberal Democrats - 910

    UKIP - 8583



  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    Diane Dodds has now been re-elected. That leaves one seat still to declare (Nicholson will win it).
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    A BASHING FOR ICM

    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 26m
    We would strongly advise discounting the ICM poll given it's stark contrast to the real votes of the local elections.

    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 27m
    We take issue with the ICM poll, a sample size of 500, compared to the real votes of the local elections: 32,000.
    ---------------
    #BritainElects @britainelects · 28m
    Sheffield Hallam (Local Elections 2014) constituency:
    LDEM - 37.7%
    LAB - 23.0%
    UKIP - 14.1%
    GRN - 12.2%
    CON - 10.4%
    OTH - 2.

    Turnout: 32K
    -----------------------------
    #BritainElects
    @britainelects
    Sheffield Hallam (ICM) constituency poll:
    LAB - 31%
    CON - 26%
    LDEM - 23%
    UKIP - 11%
    GRN - 8%

    Sample size: 500
    [src: http://www.icmresearch.com/data/media/pdf/2014_libdems_4polls.pdf …]
    -----------------------

    Is it possible that polls of 500± are worse than useless.
    If so, what is the optimum poll sample?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Presumably, factoring UKIP in renders Rod's entire thesis redundant.

    Why would it do that? Rod's thesis presumes that Governments recover vis-a-vis the Opposition in the last year of a Parliament. Recovering votes from UKIP would seem to be a blindingly obvious way for the Tories to do that over the next year.
    Quite. In fact, we've been in a three-party system (four in Scotland & Wales) for a while.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    BBC version of reality

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27585765

    "A significant microcosm of both the problem and the solution is London - where, significantly, UKIP resonated less and performed less well than elsewhere.

    Part of the explanation is that globalisation - which gives many a sense that they have little direct control over their economic destiny - enriches London.

    Much of the rest of the UK sees globalisation and its manifestations - such as immigration - as disempowering, impoverishing and a threat. Whereas for Londoners, globalisation is an economic competition they are apparently winning."

    True version of reality

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/datablog/2012/apr/12/deprivation-poverty-london

    The political class have imported poverty into the cities on a massive scale which is giving Lab increasing electoral dominance. The Con leadership colludes with this for cheap labour reasons although ultimately it is harmful to the vast majortiy of their voters.

    No doubt the City brings a lot of money into London but the majority of London isn't prosperous at all. It's the opposite and getting poorer. That's the reason for Lab success in London - importing poverty.

    The only people who benefit from this are the private sector rich of the City and the public sector rich like the BBC who can now have lots of cheap servants.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Ed Miliband ‏@Ed_Miliband · 2 mins
    The last Labour government was right to be open to the world but there is no future in saying we can pick up from where we left off in 2010

    In other words: STFU working class, and be grateful...
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 38s

    Ashcroft National Poll, 23-25 May: Con 29%, Lab 31%, LD 8%, UKIP 17%. Details on @ConHome, 4pm.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Ashcroft National Poll, 23-25 May: Con 29%, Lab 31%, LD 8%, UKIP 17%. Details on @ConHome, 4pm.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited May 2014
    MikeK said:

    A BASHING FOR ICM

    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 26m
    We would strongly advise discounting the ICM poll given it's stark contrast to the real votes of the local elections.

    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 27m
    We take issue with the ICM poll, a sample size of 500, compared to the real votes of the local elections: 32,000.
    ---------------
    #BritainElects @britainelects · 28m
    Sheffield Hallam (Local Elections 2014) constituency:
    LDEM - 37.7%
    LAB - 23.0%
    UKIP - 14.1%
    GRN - 12.2%
    CON - 10.4%
    OTH - 2.

    Turnout: 32K
    -----------------------------
    #BritainElects
    @britainelects
    Sheffield Hallam (ICM) constituency poll:
    LAB - 31%
    CON - 26%
    LDEM - 23%
    UKIP - 11%
    GRN - 8%

    Sample size: 500
    [src: http://www.icmresearch.com/data/media/pdf/2014_libdems_4polls.pdf …]
    -----------------------

    Is it possible that polls of 500± are worse than useless.
    If so, what is the optimum poll sample?

    That's exactly what I said - except I'm not sure those local election VI figures are correct from the poll:
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Ashcroft

    Con 29
    Lab 31
    Kip 17
    Lib 8
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    MrJones said:

    BBC version of reality

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27585765

    "A significant microcosm of both the problem and the solution is London - where, significantly, UKIP resonated less and performed less well than elsewhere.

    Part of the explanation is that globalisation - which gives many a sense that they have little direct control over their economic destiny - enriches London.

    Much of the rest of the UK sees globalisation and its manifestations - such as immigration - as disempowering, impoverishing and a threat. Whereas for Londoners, globalisation is an economic competition they are apparently winning."

    True version of reality

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/datablog/2012/apr/12/deprivation-poverty-london

    The political class have imported poverty into the cities on a massive scale which is giving Lab increasing electoral dominance. The Con leadership colludes with this for cheap labour reasons although ultimately it is harmful to the vast majortiy of their voters.

    No doubt the City brings a lot of money into London but the majority of London isn't prosperous at all. It's the opposite and getting poorer. That's the reason for Lab success in London - importing poverty.

    The only people who benefit from this are the private sector rich of the City and the public sector rich like the BBC who can now have lots of cheap servants.

    Inner London's GDP per head is (IIRC) twice that of the UK, but that reflects the immense wealth of a minority of super-rich people, not the standard of living of the majority.

    Just as much as ethnicity, it's the huge gap between rich and poor that drives Labour's support in London.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    The poll by Ashcroft is UKIP surging on back of Euros victory, will recede. Betting tip: Sell high on UKIP if the prices move much.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Ashcroft National Poll: Con 29%, Lab 31%, Lib Dem 8%, UKIP 17%
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited May 2014
    I take it Lord Ashcrofts poll has been released? ;)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    So Ashcroft polled the 3 days after the council elections ?

    Seems a bit excessive ;D

  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    BobaFett said:

    Ashcroft

    Con 29
    Lab 31
    Kip 17
    Lib 8


    Very close to Thursday's Local Election Projected National Vote Share:

    L - 31
    C - 29
    UKIP - 17
    LD - 13


    http://metro.co.uk/2014/05/24/have-ukip-really-caused-a-political-earthquake-national-projections-show-vote-share-has-dropped-4739251/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Aren't the Ashcroft numbers an almost exact match for NEV off the back of the locals ?

    Except the Lib Dems maybe ?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Last week it was Swindon-gate and Bacon-sarnie-gate. Looks like this week it is going to be Nose-gate...

    Not serious political analysis - but bound to get noticed in the wider media...

    http://order-order.com/2014/05/27/like-brown-ed-picks-his-nose-on-camera/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,031
    marke09 said:

    Very unusual for BBC One to cover by election results but on June 5 there is a This Week By Election special from 11.35pm to 3am covering Newark

    Case of Blue Nun on standby.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    corporeal said:

    The poll by Ashcroft is UKIP surging on back of Euros victory, will recede. Betting tip: Sell high on UKIP if the prices move much.

    Thats been a surefire way of losing money in the last year or so.

    Ever heard of a rebase?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    peterould said:

    Charles said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Charles said:

    Thanks to Rod for this. That regression chart is really quite remarkable: R² of 0.95 - that means it's a pretty damned good fit of the data.

    Problem is that the 0.95 is driven by two data points (-2, -15) and (+13.5, +7) which means that excel can force a line where there is insufficient data
    Not so. Removing those to data points reduces R^2 only fractionally to .9356 and leaves the forecast essentially unchanged at -8.4%. (y=1.5254-0.1225)

    As an aside, for the last 10 years or so, I've been musing about S-curve regression lines. Have you seen any papers on them? Rational is that regression analysis only works within an upper and lower band & then the relationships shift (admittedly I focus on the correlation between growth and value)
    Charles said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Charles said:

    Thanks to Rod for this. That regression chart is really quite remarkable: R² of 0.95 - that means it's a pretty damned good fit of the data.

    Problem is that the 0.95 is driven by two data points (-2, -15) and (+13.5, +7) which means that excel can force a line where there is insufficient data
    Not so. Removing those to data points reduces R^2 only fractionally to .9356 and leaves the forecast essentially unchanged at -8.4%. (y=1.5254-0.1225)

    As an aside, for the last 10 years or so, I've been musing about S-curve regression lines. Have you seen any papers on them? Rational is that regression analysis only works within an upper and lower band & then the relationships shift (admittedly I focus on the correlation between growth and value)
    As in logisitic regression? Works well with bounded sets (so for example, a percentage outcome like vote share).
    I'm not a mathmo or a statistician... is there a ready reckoner? Traditional regression analysis works most of the time, but logistic analysis would be cool...
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    Greens on 7% in the Ashcroft poll.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pulpstar said:

    MikeK said:

    A BASHING FOR ICM

    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 26m
    We would strongly advise discounting the ICM poll given it's stark contrast to the real votes of the local elections.

    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 27m
    We take issue with the ICM poll, a sample size of 500, compared to the real votes of the local elections: 32,000.
    ---------------
    #BritainElects @britainelects · 28m
    Sheffield Hallam (Local Elections 2014) constituency:
    LDEM - 37.7%
    LAB - 23.0%
    UKIP - 14.1%
    GRN - 12.2%
    CON - 10.4%
    OTH - 2.

    Turnout: 32K
    -----------------------------
    #BritainElects
    @britainelects
    Sheffield Hallam (ICM) constituency poll:
    LAB - 31%
    CON - 26%
    LDEM - 23%
    UKIP - 11%
    GRN - 8%

    Sample size: 500
    [src: http://www.icmresearch.com/data/media/pdf/2014_libdems_4polls.pdf …]
    -----------------------

    Is it possible that polls of 500± are worse than useless.
    If so, what is the optimum poll sample?

    That's exactly what I said - except I'm not sure those local election VI figures are correct from the poll:
    What kind of idiot would spend £20k commissioning a private poll three days after an election in that constituency?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    RobD said:

    marke09 said:

    Very unusual for BBC One to cover by election results but on June 5 there is a This Week By Election special from 11.35pm to 3am covering Newark

    Case of Blue Nun on standby.
    I've got the remains of my Crusty Port to finish. :D
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    The political class have imported poverty into the cities on a massive scale which is giving Lab increasing electoral dominance. The Con leadership colludes with this for cheap labour reasons although ultimately it is harmful to the vast majortiy of their voters.
    No doubt the City brings a lot of money into London but the majority of London isn't prosperous at all. It's the opposite and getting poorer. That's the reason for Lab success in London - importing poverty.
    The only people who benefit from this are the private sector rich of the City and the public sector rich like the BBC who can now have lots of cheap servants.

    Spot on. I remember when London streets were literally paved with gold and everyone voted Tory. It was certainly that way in solid blue Kentish Town where I grew up. The wealth was unimaginable to those grovelling a living there now. Labour changed it all when they rigged the 1997 election. What I never understood, though, was why so many people chose to leave London when it was so prosperous back in the day and so many people choose to live there now when it is so poor. I blame the BBC and Bankstas.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Just as much as ethnicity, it's the huge gap between rich and poor that drives Labour's support in London.

    I think it was MaxPB who had some other interesting ideas on labour's london support. A number of 20/30 somethings liked the rent cap thing (possibly because it showed at least some interest in their current struggles in the housing market).
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MikeK said:

    A BASHING FOR ICM

    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 26m
    We would strongly advise discounting the ICM poll given it's stark contrast to the real votes of the local elections.

    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 27m
    We take issue with the ICM poll, a sample size of 500, compared to the real votes of the local elections: 32,000.
    ---------------
    #BritainElects @britainelects · 28m
    Sheffield Hallam (Local Elections 2014) constituency:
    LDEM - 37.7%
    LAB - 23.0%
    UKIP - 14.1%
    GRN - 12.2%
    CON - 10.4%
    OTH - 2.

    Turnout: 32K
    -----------------------------
    #BritainElects
    @britainelects
    Sheffield Hallam (ICM) constituency poll:
    LAB - 31%
    CON - 26%
    LDEM - 23%
    UKIP - 11%
    GRN - 8%

    Sample size: 500
    [src: http://www.icmresearch.com/data/media/pdf/2014_libdems_4polls.pdf …]
    -----------------------

    Is it possible that polls of 500± are worse than useless.
    If so, what is the optimum poll sample?

    That's exactly what I said - except I'm not sure those local election VI figures are correct from the poll:
    What kind of idiot would spend £20k commissioning a private poll three days after an election in that constituency?
    Someone trying to ride a wave of bad Euro news into ousting Clegg.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    corporeal said:

    The poll by Ashcroft is UKIP surging on back of Euros victory, will recede. Betting tip: Sell high on UKIP if the prices move much.

    This poll is prior to the European results being known. If they had been then I suggest the numbers would have been more like 30-28-21-7.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    ICM: 33% of Cambridge sample could name Huppert.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    MikeK said:

    A BASHING FOR ICM

    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 26m
    We would strongly advise discounting the ICM poll given it's stark contrast to the real votes of the local elections.

    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 27m
    We take issue with the ICM poll, a sample size of 500, compared to the real votes of the local elections: 32,000.
    ---------------
    #BritainElects @britainelects · 28m
    Sheffield Hallam (Local Elections 2014) constituency:
    LDEM - 37.7%
    LAB - 23.0%
    UKIP - 14.1%
    GRN - 12.2%
    CON - 10.4%
    OTH - 2.

    Turnout: 32K
    -----------------------------
    #BritainElects
    @britainelects
    Sheffield Hallam (ICM) constituency poll:
    LAB - 31%
    CON - 26%
    LDEM - 23%
    UKIP - 11%
    GRN - 8%

    Sample size: 500
    [src: http://www.icmresearch.com/data/media/pdf/2014_libdems_4polls.pdf …]
    -----------------------

    Is it possible that polls of 500± are worse than useless.
    If so, what is the optimum poll sample?

    AFAIK BritainElects doesn't have any particular authority - it's a website, just like us, meh. In general, a weighted poll of how people will vote in a GE is MORE reliable than a by-election or a local election, because the likelihood to vote for the latter and who the voters will support is often quite different. That said, a sample of 500 is small and the MOE is substantial. The poll suggests that it's probable that at that moment the LibDems were behind, but all you can safely say is that they're at best likely to be level.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    The poll by Ashcroft is UKIP surging on back of Euros victory, will recede. Betting tip: Sell high on UKIP if the prices move much.

    Thats been a surefire way of losing money in the last year or so.

    Ever heard of a rebase?
    At 17%? And Greens on 7%?

    Not at that level.

    And UKIP actually finished at the lower end of their polling range at the Euros.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758


    In that case a simple option is a mixture of low-cost tracker funds which track the FTSE100, the S & P 500, the European market, and a small proportion in emerging/Far East markets. Something like 40%, 30%, 20%, 10% makes sense to me, although it's a higher non-UK percentage than most people would recommend.

    Traditionally the advice has been to keep at least some of the portfolio in bonds rather than shares, but they are a bit tricky at the moment because of the expectation that interest rates will rise (which means the capital value of existing bonds, stuck on low interest rates, will fall).

    That's spookily similar to my portfolio, although I tend to go longer on the US (35%) and emerging markets (15%) with a bit in Japan (5%) and lighter on the FTSE (25%). Obviously have 10% in bonds for now. This is for my pension though, with 30 years to run, so quite an aggressive position with an international spin.
  • peterouldpeterould Posts: 11
    Charles said:

    peterould said:

    Charles said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Charles said:

    Thanks to Rod for this. That regression chart is really quite remarkable: R² of 0.95 - that means it's a pretty damned good fit of the data.

    Problem is that the 0.95 is driven by two data points (-2, -15) and (+13.5, +7) which means that excel can force a line where there is insufficient data
    Not so. Removing those to data points reduces R^2 only fractionally to .9356 and leaves the forecast essentially unchanged at -8.4%. (y=1.5254-0.1225)

    As an aside, for the last 10 years or so, I've been musing about S-curve regression lines. Have you seen any papers on them? Rational is that regression analysis only works within an upper and lower band & then the relationships shift (admittedly I focus on the correlation between growth and value)
    Charles said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Charles said:

    Thanks to Rod for this. That regression chart is really quite remarkable: R² of 0.95 - that means it's a pretty damned good fit of the data.

    Problem is that the 0.95 is driven by two data points (-2, -15) and (+13.5, +7) which means that excel can force a line where there is insufficient data
    Not so. Removing those to data points reduces R^2 only fractionally to .9356 and leaves the forecast essentially unchanged at -8.4%. (y=1.5254-0.1225)

    As an aside, for the last 10 years or so, I've been musing about S-curve regression lines. Have you seen any papers on them? Rational is that regression analysis only works within an upper and lower band & then the relationships shift (admittedly I focus on the correlation between growth and value)
    As in logisitic regression? Works well with bounded sets (so for example, a percentage outcome like vote share).
    I'm not a mathmo or a statistician... is there a ready reckoner? Traditional regression analysis works most of the time, but logistic analysis would be cool...
    If Rod gives me his data set I'll see what I can do....

    :-)

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682

    ToryJim said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Thanks Rod.

    On your graph it does look as though Ed Milliband is the most ineffective LOTO for Labour since Michael Foot, LOL.

    The writings on the wall for Labour and has been for some time.

    Still think it's going to be Conservatives most votes and seats, but if Labour does lose by 8.4% next year it will surely end up in a Conservative majority.

    I just whacked some figures into electoral calculus of con 39 lab 31 ld 18 and UKIP 5.5 which gave seats of 327:262:33:0 for a majority of 4.
    Take 8 off LD and give it to UKIP. That's nearer the mark.
    My GE2015 expectation is
    Tory 38
    Labour 32
    LibDem 15
    UKIP 10

    but realise it could be a swap between LibDem and UKIP. If Ed keeps trying hard to show his superior intellect we could see Labour go sub 29.
    Forgive me for pointing it out Easterross but just a couple of days before the Euro vote you were predicting a clear Tory win.

  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Artist said:

    Greens on 7% in the Ashcroft poll.

    A small crumb of comfort for Labour - the Greens look like their best chance of improving upon their current polling.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    MikeL said:

    ICM: 33% of Cambridge sample could name Huppert.

    How many could name the goose stepping Nazi saluting union firebrand he is running against ?

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    HopiSen said:



    You're forgetting the red liberals Labour have picked up from the government. Eds hopes hinge on them not drifting back, too.

    No, that's the voters I was talking about who have been steadily Labour since 2011. Do you think a sudden LibDem revival is likely? As I've said for at least a year, I'm more confident of these than I am of habitual Labour voters (some of whom have indeed since drifted off to UKIP).

    There's been a steady, gradual decline in Labour's poll share among 2010 LibDems.

    I've been tracking the numbers semi-regularly. excluding those who say they won't vote/don't know, Labour had 39.4% last ten polls of July 2012, 37.2 in Jan 2013, and 32.6 in July 13. I've just checked the last 5 regular yougovs, and they averaged 29.8%. Some improvement in all of UKIP, LD, Grn and Con over period.
    Not, I'd suggest, in Con/Lab marginals, at least the one I'm basing my comments on. Cf. Ashcroft poll (41% of 2010 LDs planning to vote Lab in Broxtowe).
This discussion has been closed.