Q. Which of the following best reflects your view?
A. "Romanian and Bulgarian citizens having the right to come and live in Britain will be damaging and the British government should have acted to restrict their right to live or work here, even if it means breaking EU laws"
35% (Con 44%, Lab 27%, LD 14%, UKIP 73%)
A. "Romanian and Bulgarian citizens having the right to come and live in Britain will be damaging, but the British government needs to obey the law and had no choice but to allow them in"
19% (Con 23%, Lab 19%, LD 22%, UKIP 12%)
A. "There is nothing wrong with Romanian and Bulgarian citizens having the right to come to live in Britain, and we should welcome it"
One point on that article, whilst they don't have a monopoly on nutters and extremists they certainly have a disproportionate number as their representatives.
And we don't elect politicians just to do the popular things, we elect them in the hope that they do the right things (which they occasionally surprise us by doing).
By the way, it isn't just the Westminster elite who are voicing their disapproval...my facebook timeline is full of ordinary working class people who never usually voice political opinions giving stick to Ukip.
I believe that is known as confirmation bias and is why anecdotal evidence is worthless.
An interesting post, Mr. Code. I am particulalry intrigued by this snippet,
"... If you register with a GP for example, your name and address will be centrally collated. If you give birth or are treated in a NHS hospital, ditto."
Centrally collated by which agency and who has access to the (non-medical) data?
Mr. Briskin, we got one from An Independence From Europe, or whatever the PFJ is called.
I had one from a shady outfit called No2EU which seems to be a bunch of crypto-communists.
I'm sure they sent out a leaflet at the last euros to my address. Haven't had anything for them this time. In fact the only leaflets I've had were from UKIP and the Conservatives. Are Labour that skint? I've seen nothing from them, or Plaid Cymru...the boredom of living in a constituency that is taken for granted.
I've had most of the major ones, except Lib Dem. Labour's was odd in the way it presented itself it's plethora of hashtags seemed to me silly given those most likely to understand their import are least likely to vote and vice versa. The BNP one was recycled without contaminating my eyes, I had a peruse of the Green leaflet which for a party that seems always to advocate living in a commune of yurts eating bean stew and worshiping Gaia was actually a half decent effort. I had a look at UKIP's effort
An interesting post, Mr. Code. I am particulalry intrigued by this snippet,
"... If you register with a GP for example, your name and address will be centrally collated. If you give birth or are treated in a NHS hospital, ditto."
Centrally collated by which agency and who has access to the (non-medical) data?
Agreed on all points, not least because the NHS in Scotland is a completely separate organization from the one in England - and presumably too the one in Northern Ireland (not sure about Wales). Not making a political point, just remarking that that adds another level, so to speak, to what is being suggested.
Why not have an open Primary for Doncaster North? In the red corner - Mr. David Milliband and in the purple corner Mr. Nigel Farrage. It should be a sell out!
It's very imaginative, and you've identified a plausible opponent. But:
1) the public don't usually co-operate with decapitation strategies, as you note. 2) UKIP is fissiparous rather than unifying, as we can see with Alan Sked, Mike Nattrass, Nikki Sinclair and others. 3) There is likely to be a swing to rather than away from Labour
As far as I can see, there's no market on this seat. I guess that Peter Davies would be marginally more likely than Bez or White Dee to win a seat. Maybe a 40/1 shot?
On 2) it is striking that the most trenchant attacks on Farage seem to come from his former colleagues.
There are no deep and distinctive political ties that bind UKIP yet. Essentially, it is a right wing Tory splinter party
A piece in the Guardian the other day suggested UKIP is actually a big government, left wing, Labour offshoot.
"An average of 71% of Ukip voters agree with five leftwing ideological statements, far above the Conservatives (43%) or even the Liberal Democrats (65%). They are only a little behind Labour (81%)."
That's its supporters, not the party. And in the long term it will be a big challenge for UKIP's leadership, all of whom - as far as I can see - are economically drier than tinder.
Nah, it's easy. The political class say supply and demand doesn't apply to immigration but everyone directly effected knows it's a lie. All Ukip need to do is talk about supply and demand and when a LibLabCon comes back with the "official statistics say blah" reply with "let people trust their own eyes."
@PeterMannionMP: Perhaps Farage will release his sliding scale of nationalities to avoid living next to, for those of us who don't 'know the difference'?
Median national income would provide a scale of most likely to be living 12+ to a house and working illegally for tuppence an hour.
I've never heard of a house like that full of Germans because Germans aren't poor enough to be exploited like that. A house full of Germans would more likely be professionals.
I remember there was a similar question in 2004-2005 saying Anthony Blair might lose Sedgfield due to the Iraq war, and the candidates standing against him. Also there was going to be an x factor style competition to select someone .
Even that had more justification in reality than this thread.
Mr Farage stands by his Romanians comment: "UKIP will never allow the false accusation of racism levelled by a politically correct elite to prevent the raising of issues that are of concern to the great majority of the British public.
Where there are differential crime rates between nationalities, it is perfectly legitimate to point this out and to discuss it in the public sphere and I shall continue to do so.
Police figures are quite clear that there is a high level of criminality within the Romanian community in Britain. This is not to say for a moment that all or even most Romanian people living in the UK are criminals.
"But it is to say that any normal and fair-minded person would have a perfect right to be concerned if a group of Romanian people suddenly moved in next door. So far as I can see most of those media commentators objecting to this statement are people living in million pound houses for whom the prospect of such a turn of events is not a real one.
I remember there was a similar question in 2004-2005 saying Anthony Blair might lose Sedgfield due to the Iraq war, and the candidates standing against him. Also there was going to be an x factor style competition to select someone .
Even that had more justification in reality than this thread.
You're right. Entertaining though the thought is, the decapitation strategy has no more chance than finding Elvis alive. Or is he?
Mr. Briskin, we got one from An Independence From Europe, or whatever the PFJ is called.
I had one from a shady outfit called No2EU which seems to be a bunch of crypto-communists.
I'm sure they sent out a leaflet at the last euros to my address. Haven't had anything for them this time. In fact the only leaflets I've had were from UKIP and the Conservatives. Are Labour that skint? I've seen nothing from them, or Plaid Cymru...the boredom of living in a constituency that is taken for granted.
I've had most of the major ones, except Lib Dem. Labour's was odd in the way it presented itself it's plethora of hashtags seemed to me silly given those most likely to understand their import are least likely to vote and vice versa. The BNP one was recycled without contaminating my eyes, I had a peruse of the Green leaflet which for a party that seems always to advocate living in a commune of yurts eating bean stew and worshiping Gaia was actually a half decent effort. I had a look at UKIP's effort
Does anyone have any evidence that these leaflets make any noticeable difference to a party's chance of winning an election? Any that come through my door go straight into the recycling bin and I guess I am not in a minority.
Some people on here are fond of talking about the Ground War, of which these leaflets make up a part, perhaps a significant part of the effort, but is there any evidence that they work? Could it be that this leafleting is obsolete and is actually just some sort of macho game played by the parties ("We had 36 people out leafleting", "Really we had 52") that makes bugger all difference.
As for GOTV, how does this work? Telephone calls? How many people actually take cold calls these days? As soon as I hear, "Can I, please, speak to Mr. Hurst Llama?" I put the phone down or, if they are using one of those auto diallers (where you always get the pause before he caller speaks) the phone goes down*. If if I speak to the person I will have made up my mind when or if I am going to vote and having some party hack ring me up is not going to make me change my mind.
*I always hang up on cold calls unless I am in a playful mood in which case I ask them to hang on for a moment and go off and make a cup of tea, groom the cat, gossip with the neighbours, read a good book or whatever - if I feel like it I might play them some awful music (think TSE specials) while I do this.
I was interested to read that someone was calling for the legalisation of prostitution in the UK. Given the latest round of rules and regulations on claims for out of work benefits, this would logically lead to full employment. Abstract thinking is fun for those who can manage it.
Does anyone have any evidence that these leaflets make any noticeable difference to a party's chance of winning an election? Any that come through my door go straight into the recycling bin and I guess I am not in a minority.
Some people on here are fond of talking about the Ground War, of which these leaflets make up a part, perhaps a significant part of the effort, but is there any evidence that they work? Could it be that this leafleting is obsolete and is actually just some sort of macho game played by the parties ("We had 36 people out leafleting", "Really we had 52") that makes bugger all difference.
I was wondering about that. I tend to read the ones that I will/might vote for and bin the rest.
A lot of magazine advertising for big ticket items, like cars, is apparently intended to reassure recent buyers that they made the right decision, rather than to generate new sales. Perhaps political advertising works the same way?
I don't think leaflets are dead quite yet, Hurst. many people complain that they haven't received literature from the X Party and do seem to appreciate the effort. I know all the information is available online and I also know that all leaflets are perty Political propaganda, but they do demonstrate activity by the party in question. I have fought in Euro, parliamentary and Council elections as a candidate and as an activist and leaflets remain a key way of demonstrating that someone has taken the trouble to visit your street.
Mr Llama I think they make a difference, but not necessarily in the election at hand. Continual effort keeps areas fertile which is why you occasionally see areas that do odd things or buck trends etc. to the extent they are important in a campaign I dunno, I think it jogs peoples memories and I've been involved in campaigns that the extra efforts could well have been the difference.
An interesting post, Mr. Code. I am particulalry intrigued by this snippet,
"... If you register with a GP for example, your name and address will be centrally collated. If you give birth or are treated in a NHS hospital, ditto."
Centrally collated by which agency and who has access to the (non-medical) data?
This is kinda how the British state is run: at least since the 1930's, and in truth way before that. Powers are distributed to area representatives via the Crown, who further subdivide to their subordinates and so on. Information is fed up the chain, collated by a central authority (these days it's the ONS overseen by the UKSA) and then fed back down to the local authorities.
As for who can access it, that's a more difficult question. It's difficult because a quiet revolution is going on with civil datagathering and the circs are changing. When the Cameron administration came in, many of the laws preventing cross-compilation of data across different civil authorities (eg between local authorities and between, say, the NHS and local authorities) were modified or dropped, and all of a sudden statisticians were pushing on an open door. Because it's Britain, a committee had to be formed and the ADS and ADLS (http://www.adls.ac.uk ) were set up to allow researchers to use the data and hopefully find a way to cross-link enough data for the 2021 Census. David Willets has started awarding contracts if i recall correctly.
If we discount access via criminal methods or corruption, collated and anonymised data at a high level is published by ONS. To get down to a lower level (say by local authority or lower) you have to be an authorised researcher, so you'd need at least SC and CTC clearance (https://www.gov.uk/security-vetting-and-clearance ), you then access the data via an authorised terminal, you can't take paper, pens, your phone or PC in with you, you are provided with pen and sheets of paper. To access the details of a named individual is a very big ask, and would have to go up to Cabinet Office level.
The Modi segment on Newsnight was interesting last night...
I watched that segment as well, complete load of bollocks to be honest. The facts of the case are:
Muslims burned trains carrying Hindu pilgrims, 59 people died, mostly women and children. The police did nothing to bring the perpetrators to justice. Modi was elected about two weeks prior and was barely getting his feet under the table at that point. Over around a week tensions built up and the government did nothing to alleviate them, tensions not just in the Hindu community, but also within the police rank and file that terrorists and extremists were not being brought to justice even though they knew who it was. Eventually it all spilled over and the lack of inaction on the part of the police and tens of thousands of Hindu people in Gujarat stormed Muslim communities. There was literally nothing that could be done. People blame the police for letting the riots get out of control here a few years ago, but over there what does one do against a mob of 10,000 men carrying machetes and axes wanting revenge against people who had perpetrated a crime against Hindu pilgrims. Not just that but having also pissed of rank and file police officers, who would even go out and control the mobs? The police commissioners might have wanted to do something, I think Modi probably did, but if your officers haven't turned up to work what can be done?
This idea that Modi is a "mass murderer" is completely ridiculous and has been whipped up by Congress and a compliant international media, the Indian Supreme Court cleared him of all charges, citing complete lack of evidence to support a case against him (unsurprising given that he had only been in the job for a few weeks). There have since been other accusations, but none with any substance and they are all from Congress supporters or allies.
On Modi's rule in Gujarat, he has engendered economic growth double India's while he has been in charge, he has turned dusty cities like Ahmedabad into shining beacons of India's prosperity. Hindus and Muslims alike have benefited from the economic gains made by his policies. The one that really stands out to me is the Tata factory, after months of negotiating with three different states the Tata company decided they couldn't be bothered to build a new factory in India. An hour later Modi tweeted Ratan Tata "Welcome to Gujarat", three days later they had hammered out a deal to open up a car factory in the state. Tata himself has said the best thing about dealing with Modi was that there was no quid quo pro, no side pay-off, no kala dhanda (corruption) to try and facilitate the move. He wanted the factory in Gujarat and with decent tax rates on offer, lots of land, and a motivated work force, they got it done. I don't think something like that would be possible over here even, let alone the rest of India. That factory employs Hindus and Muslims...
...The other stated goal of Modi has been to create a single unified "Indian" identity so that everyone, Hindus, Muslims and Christians can all identify as Indian. He has said many times the key to a safe and happy society is breaking down the barriers that have been put up by Congress as part of their votebank politics. That's not something that will happen overnight, but he is going to try.
Finally, he smacked down the RSS early on in the campaign saying "toilets before temples" in response to them demanding the Ram temple to be rebuilt on the Ayodhya site, telling them that it wasn't going to happen and India has other priorities. Why flame up community tensions by building a controversial temple when there are hundreds of millions of people living in abject poverty.
People who read only western media articles about Modi and do the bare minimum of research are being fed Congress inspired lies. The Guardian, for example, has been publishing articles against Modi for a while now, two out of the three regular writers are associated with the Congress party, the third, Jason Burke, who is not, has been very even handed. He is the only one who pointed out that the anti-Muslim riots in Gujarat were in response to the train burnings by Muslim terrorists. The others try and imply that Modi whipped up a gang of people and sent them into Muslim areas like some sort of field marshal.
Anyway, Modi is India's Thatcher, or he can be, at least.
Silly piece and in line with this odd notion amongst some pundits that UKIP is imbued with almost magical properties - there's no election they can't win by a landslide, there's no argument they can make that can be refuted. I saw the footage of Farage's notorious radio interview earlier. The man looked tired - sunken eyed and slightly perspiring. Perhaps he'd just had a good night out, or perhaps the horrendous pressure the media and his supporters are putting on him is taking its toll.
I don't think leaflets are dead quite yet, Hurst. many people complain that they haven't received literature from the X Party and do seem to appreciate the effort. I know all the information is available online and I also know that all leaflets are perty Political propaganda, but they do demonstrate activity by the party in question. I have fought in Euro, parliamentary and Council elections as a candidate and as an activist and leaflets remain a key way of demonstrating that someone has taken the trouble to visit your street.
OK, they provide evidence that someone has bothered to pop round (unless the Post office delivers them, which seems to be the trend) but do they change votes or even encourage voters to vote? Is there any actual evidence that they are effective?
@MrJones But you have no problem with a foreign company setting up in Britain, having their labour costs subsidised by the government, while off shoring their tax liabilities?
Heard on radio 4 this am that Expedian,the credit reference agency,has figures to show 6.5 million people are not on the electoral register and should be.Local authorities have been loathe to use the legislation which could result in a £1,000 fine for failure to register. That's an awful lot of people who no longer participate in what democracy we have.
Heard on radio 4 this am that Expedian,the credit reference agency,has figures to show 6.5 million people are not on the electoral register and should be.Local authorities have been loathe to use the legislation which could result in a £1,000 fine for failure to register. That's an awful lot of people who no longer participate in what democracy we have.
Well, I've received two election leaflets this morning. One was fronted by a picture of Ed looking a bit bewildered. I assumed it was an attack piece from one of his opponents but, no, it was actually from the Labour Party. The other was from this 'Independence from Europe' mob whom Mike keeps going on about. Who are they and who funds them?
@PeterMannionMP: Perhaps Farage will release his sliding scale of nationalities to avoid living next to, for those of us who don't 'know the difference'?
Median national income would provide a scale of most likely to be living 12+ to a house and working illegally for tuppence an hour.
I've never heard of a house like that full of Germans because Germans aren't poor enough to be exploited like that. A house full of Germans would more likely be professionals.
" Workers lived in accommodation in Ravensthorpe, Batley, Heckmondwike and Bradford. Up to 50 men were kept in a single Batley house.
...
With upwards of 30 or 40 people living in a two-bedroom house, can you imagine the smell, the overcrowding, the dirt? People were living on scraps of food or slop that was reheated again and again. "
I wonder how many of them appeared on the Census data.
@MrJones But you have no problem with a foreign company setting up in Britain, having their labour costs subsidised by the government, while off shoring their tax liabilities?
@PeterMannionMP: Perhaps Farage will release his sliding scale of nationalities to avoid living next to, for those of us who don't 'know the difference'?
Median national income would provide a scale of most likely to be living 12+ to a house and working illegally for tuppence an hour.
I've never heard of a house like that full of Germans because Germans aren't poor enough to be exploited like that. A house full of Germans would more likely be professionals.
" Workers lived in accommodation in Ravensthorpe, Batley, Heckmondwike and Bradford. Up to 50 men were kept in a single Batley house.
...
With upwards of 30 or 40 people living in a two-bedroom house, can you imagine the smell, the overcrowding, the dirt? People were living on scraps of food or slop that was reheated again and again. "
I wonder how many of them appeared on the Census data.
I'd guess roughly 0.00.
The other thing is the rubbish. As there's so many people the front gardens are always chokka with bin bags.
@MrJones New Labour, Tory. Lib Dem. UKIP.....Pretty much all the major parties. Do some basic maths? Even those champions of the free market,the Americans, have looked at the Astra Zenica bid, and went . Errr? Wait a goldarned minute.....something is going mightily wrong.
Does anyone have any evidence that these leaflets make any noticeable difference to a party's chance of winning an election? Any that come through my door go straight into the recycling bin and I guess I am not in a minority.
Some people on here are fond of talking about the Ground War, of which these leaflets make up a part, perhaps a significant part of the effort, but is there any evidence that they work? Could it be that this leafleting is obsolete and is actually just some sort of macho game played by the parties ("We had 36 people out leafleting", "Really we had 52") that makes bugger all difference.
I had one of those personal election leaflets in a hand addressed envelope.
It informed me that they knew about all the things I was concerned about and how their policies were especially designed to suit me personally.
As said personal leaflet came from the Labour party and I have never or would ever vote Labour I suspect that that Labour's voting database is as flawed as the ones they inflicted upon the country whilst they were in government.
It also arrived several days after I had sent off my postal ballot.
Gary Becker proposed a remarkable way of dealing with immigration. He suggested selling the right to live and work in the US or the UK. His proposal was that the countries should set a price ($50,000, for example), and admit foreigners prepared to pay it. Of course certain categories such as terrorists or criminals would be excluded, but otherwise the doors would be open to those prepared to stump up the money.
Breaking news (on pb first) Lib Dem MP Adrian Sanders calls on Clegg to stand down as Deputy PM.
Adrian Sanders 17th May '14 - 9:17am It’s time for another and possibly last reshuffle before the General Election. Nick Clegg has attempted to give every MP prepared to enter coalition an opportunity to serve as a Minister and there are still some who have yet to be asked – my answer would be no btw – but it is also an opportunity to give someone else the chance to be Deputy Prime Minister and be a fresh face communicating our message to an electorate that seems unable to respond positively to what we have to say at the moment. Of course the SPADS and those around the Leader may be right in blaming the public for not seeing enough of the Leader that means they don’t get the message. I’m no match for the electoral expertise surrounding the Leader but it seems fair that if everyone has a chance to be a Minister at least one of my colleagues should have a change to be Deputy Prime Minister."
Breaking news (on pb first) Lib Dem MP Adrian Sanders calls on Clegg to stand down as Deputy PM.
Adrian Sanders 17th May '14 - 9:17am It’s time for another and possibly last reshuffle before the General Election. Nick Clegg has attempted to give every MP prepared to enter coalition an opportunity to serve as a Minister and there are still some who have yet to be asked – my answer would be no btw – but it is also an opportunity to give someone else the chance to be Deputy Prime Minister and be a fresh face communicating our message to an electorate that seems unable to respond positively to what we have to say at the moment. Of course the SPADS and those around the Leader may be right in blaming the public for not seeing enough of the Leader that means they don’t get the message. I’m no match for the electoral expertise surrounding the Leader but it seems fair that if everyone has a chance to be a Minister at least one of my colleagues should have a change to be Deputy Prime Minister."
the mask slipped... thoroughly nasty little man... BNP-lite... trainwreck
OK. Bertie, you clearly don't like him. But I think that calling someone a racist to shut down debate is old hat these days. We've seen it all before. It's the yawn-inducing three card trick of British politics. It tends to get greeted with "Not that one again!".
But good luck in using it if you want to take that line. Maybe it still does still work in Wales? You suggest it does so I'd be interested to see how big the Welsh welcome would be when the Romany caravans come swinging round the mountains. If you're right, and I'm sure you must be, they will be greeted with open arms and you'll all get on like a house on fire.
Have you considered setting up a Gypsies for Wales Facebook group? I think it could be really quite effective.
Breaking news (on pb first) Lib Dem MP Adrian Sanders calls on Clegg to stand down as Deputy PM.
Adrian Sanders 17th May '14 - 9:17am It’s time for another and possibly last reshuffle before the General Election. Nick Clegg has attempted to give every MP prepared to enter coalition an opportunity to serve as a Minister and there are still some who have yet to be asked – my answer would be no btw – but it is also an opportunity to give someone else the chance to be Deputy Prime Minister and be a fresh face communicating our message to an electorate that seems unable to respond positively to what we have to say at the moment. Of course the SPADS and those around the Leader may be right in blaming the public for not seeing enough of the Leader that means they don’t get the message. I’m no match for the electoral expertise surrounding the Leader but it seems fair that if everyone has a chance to be a Minister at least one of my colleagues should have a change to be Deputy Prime Minister."
Heard on radio 4 this am that Expedian,the credit reference agency,has figures to show 6.5 million people are not on the electoral register and should be.Local authorities have been loathe to use the legislation which could result in a £1,000 fine for failure to register. That's an awful lot of people who no longer participate in what democracy we have.
I am not surprised. At the turn of the year I accepted the task from the local council (so totally non-party political) to get those people not registered in Hurstpierpoint registered. There were 345 separate addresses to call on (i.e. where no voters return had been received) and we are not, in population numbers, a big community. I don't know for sure but I reckon that was not far off 10% of the potential electorate had been bothered to fill in a form and send it back - or to put it another way 10% of the electorate that couldn't be arsed to even give themselves a vote.
P.S. Experian and companies like them get the hump about this because they get access to the unexpurgated edition of the Voters Register and the less accurate that register is the less valuable Experian's services are. So they have a direct financial interest in forcing people to register. The people might have a different view.
" I've been involved in campaigns that the extra efforts could well have been the difference."
Fair enough, but that says to me that there is no evidence that leafleting actually achieves anything, but we dare not stop just in case.
If nobody is doing any research as to what works then nothing is going to get better and will probably get worse. A bit sad that political parties are being left so far behind the curve. FFS how many companies nowadays don't evaluate the effectiveness of their different marketing tactics?
" I've been involved in campaigns that the extra efforts could well have been the difference."
Fair enough, but that says to me that there is no evidence that leafleting actually achieves anything, but we dare not stop just in case.
If nobody is doing any research as to what works then nothing is going to get better and will probably get worse. A bit sad that political parties are being left so far behind the curve. FFS how many companies nowadays don't evaluate the effectiveness of their different marketing tactics?
Breaking news (on pb first) Lib Dem MP Adrian Sanders calls on Clegg to stand down as Deputy PM.
Adrian Sanders 17th May '14 - 9:17am It’s time for another and possibly last reshuffle before the General Election. Nick Clegg has attempted to give every MP prepared to enter coalition an opportunity to serve as a Minister and there are still some who have yet to be asked – my answer would be no btw – but it is also an opportunity to give someone else the chance to be Deputy Prime Minister and be a fresh face communicating our message to an electorate that seems unable to respond positively to what we have to say at the moment. Of course the SPADS and those around the Leader may be right in blaming the public for not seeing enough of the Leader that means they don’t get the message. I’m no match for the electoral expertise surrounding the Leader but it seems fair that if everyone has a chance to be a Minister at least one of my colleagues should have a change to be Deputy Prime Minister."
Fairly sure under current polling he'll be toast at the next election, so possibly easier to dismiss.
EDIT to finish the sentence again as it disappeared
I'd have thought so, but he's got an OK majority in a LD/Con seat and is (rightly I'd say) favourites with the bookies to hold it. Wonder if this means he's stepping down or something? Would be odd to announce it with less than a year to go, though.
" I've been involved in campaigns that the extra efforts could well have been the difference."
Fair enough, but that says to me that there is no evidence that leafleting actually achieves anything, but we dare not stop just in case.
If nobody is doing any research as to what works then nothing is going to get better and will probably get worse. A bit sad that political parties are being left so far behind the curve. FFS how many companies nowadays don't evaluate the effectiveness of their different marketing tactics?
" I've been involved in campaigns that the extra efforts could well have been the difference."
Fair enough, but that says to me that there is no evidence that leafleting actually achieves anything, but we dare not stop just in case.
If nobody is doing any research as to what works then nothing is going to get better and will probably get worse. A bit sad that political parties are being left so far behind the curve. FFS how many companies nowadays don't evaluate the effectiveness of their different marketing tactics?
leafleting is recce.
What does that mean, Mr, Jones. In the military one sent out a reconnaissance teams and they would bring back information about the enemy dispositions and intentions. What useful information does dropping a leaflet through my door bring back?
I don't think leaflets are dead quite yet, Hurst. many people complain that they haven't received literature from the X Party and do seem to appreciate the effort. I know all the information is available online and I also know that all leaflets are perty Political propaganda, but they do demonstrate activity by the party in question. I have fought in Euro, parliamentary and Council elections as a candidate and as an activist and leaflets remain a key way of demonstrating that someone has taken the trouble to visit your street.
OK, they provide evidence that someone has bothered to pop round (unless the Post office delivers them, which seems to be the trend) but do they change votes or even encourage voters to vote? Is there any actual evidence that they are effective?
Yes, I think so Mr. Hurst Everyone on this thread is engaged in the political process. Many many voters are frankly not impressed by any of the main Parties and the whole process. I have had people who don't support my Party saying that they will read the literature supplied by everyone and decide. It surely reminds voters that there is an election on and there is some evidence that they are effective, as not to use them basically says that the Party that doesn't can't be bothered. I know the Lib Dems aren't flavour of the month right now (sorry mark Senior!!), but they made huge electoral grounds by local activism, hand delivered leaflets with dubious bar charts. These things really can work. However during heavily contested by-Elections, the sheer weight of paper can be a turn off!
Breaking news (on pb first) Lib Dem MP Adrian Sanders calls on Clegg to stand down as Deputy PM.
Adrian Sanders 17th May '14 - 9:17am It’s time for another and possibly last reshuffle before the General Election. Nick Clegg has attempted to give every MP prepared to enter coalition an opportunity to serve as a Minister and there are still some who have yet to be asked – my answer would be no btw – but it is also an opportunity to give someone else the chance to be Deputy Prime Minister and be a fresh face communicating our message to an electorate that seems unable to respond positively to what we have to say at the moment. Of course the SPADS and those around the Leader may be right in blaming the public for not seeing enough of the Leader that means they don’t get the message. I’m no match for the electoral expertise surrounding the Leader but it seems fair that if everyone has a chance to be a Minister at least one of my colleagues should have a change to be Deputy Prime Minister."
" I've been involved in campaigns that the extra efforts could well have been the difference."
Fair enough, but that says to me that there is no evidence that leafleting actually achieves anything, but we dare not stop just in case.
If nobody is doing any research as to what works then nothing is going to get better and will probably get worse. A bit sad that political parties are being left so far behind the curve. FFS how many companies nowadays don't evaluate the effectiveness of their different marketing tactics?
leafleting is recce.
What does that mean, Mr, Jones. In the military one sent out a reconnaissance teams and they would bring back information about the enemy dispositions and intentions. What useful information does dropping a leaflet through my door bring back?
Potholes, mattresses, people smiling or scowling, people moving out, people moving in.
Very local centric i.e. if you work a particular ward then leafletting tells you lots about what's going on.
P.S. Experian and companies like them get the hump about this because they get access to the unexpurgated edition of the Voters Register and the less accurate that register is the less valuable Experian's services are. So they have a direct financial interest in forcing people to register. The people might have a different view.
The Labour MP on the same programme estimated 3.5 million,still a lot,not registered.I'm pretty sure in my own mind the Poll Tax of 1990 started the rot,people just "disappeared". It is an offence not to register but if LAs won't enforce it what might be the alternative solutions? Democracy is precious but how far towards compulsion are we prepared to go to protect it?
...The other stated goal of Modi has been to create a single unified "Indian" identity so that everyone, Hindus, Muslims and Christians can all identify as Indian. He has said many times the key to a safe and happy society is breaking down the barriers that have been put up by Congress as part of their votebank politics. That's not something that will happen overnight, but he is going to try.
Finally, he smacked down the RSS early on in the campaign saying "toilets before temples" in response to them demanding the Ram temple to be rebuilt on the Ayodhya site, telling them that it wasn't going to happen and India has other priorities. Why flame up community tensions by building a controversial temple when there are hundreds of millions of people living in abject poverty.
People who read only western media articles about Modi and do the bare minimum of research are being fed Congress inspired lies. The Guardian, for example, has been publishing articles against Modi for a while now, two out of the three regular writers are associated with the Congress party, the third, Jason Burke, who is not, has been very even handed. He is the only one who pointed out that the anti-Muslim riots in Gujarat were in response to the train burnings by Muslim terrorists. The others try and imply that Modi whipped up a gang of people and sent them into Muslim areas like some sort of field marshal.
Anyway, Modi is India's Thatcher, or he can be, at least.
Thanks for an informative post. It'll be interesting to see what happens there now. Hopefully something can be done to alleviate the poverty that exists there. A government that promotes business and trade and avoids lining their own pockets is a good place to start.
the mask slipped... thoroughly nasty little man... BNP-lite... trainwreck
OK. Bertie, you clearly don't like him. But I think that calling someone a racist to shut down debate is old hat these days. We've seen it all before. It's the yawn-inducing three card trick of British politics. It tends to get greeted with "Not that one again!".
But good luck in using it if you want to take that line. Maybe it still does still work in Wales? You suggest it does so I'd be interested to see how big the Welsh welcome would be when the Romany caravans come swinging round the mountains. If you're right, and I'm sure you must be, they will be greeted with open arms and you'll all get on like a house on fire.
Have you considered setting up a Gypsies for Wales Facebook group? I think it could be really quite effective.
To be honest, until recent months I was quite ambivalent towards him. I thought UKIP was a pointless operation but was sympathetic to their stance on the EU. But the tone in recent months has definitely turned nastier. And it's not shutting down the debate when he gets called up on what he's actually said. Some people may agree with him, other's won't. But Farage deserves to be put under the same level of scrutiny as any other leader would.
And I can't say I'm worried about a procession of Romany Caravans, there hasn't been a big influx since the controls ended and I doubt there will be in the future (The thought of being greeted by Keith Vaz and Mark Pritchard on arrival would be enough to put anyone off.).
And I can't say I'm worried about a procession of Romany Caravans, there hasn't been a big influx since the controls ended and I doubt there will be in the future (The thought of being greeted by Keith Vaz and Mark Pritchard on arrival would be enough to put anyone off.).
That attitude of "I'm OK, so I will call those worried about immigration racists", is exactly the reason for the rise of support for UKIP by those who are worried.
Millions of the little buggers, Mr. Brackenbury. I've become a dab hand at opening the window and closing the blind moments later to encourage them to leave, but it's still displeasing.
[Obviously I could close the window fully, but this would entail me melting to death].
the mask slipped... thoroughly nasty little man... BNP-lite... trainwreck
OK. Bertie, you clearly don't like him. But I think that calling someone a racist to shut down debate is old hat these days. We've seen it all before. It's the yawn-inducing three card trick of British politics. It tends to get greeted with "Not that one again!".
But good luck in using it if you want to take that line. Maybe it still does still work in Wales? You suggest it does so I'd be interested to see how big the Welsh welcome would be when the Romany caravans come swinging round the mountains. If you're right, and I'm sure you must be, they will be greeted with open arms and you'll all get on like a house on fire.
Have you considered setting up a Gypsies for Wales Facebook group? I think it could be really quite effective.
To be honest, until recent months I was quite ambivalent towards him. I thought UKIP was a pointless operation but was sympathetic to their stance on the EU. But the tone in recent months has definitely turned nastier. And it's not shutting down the debate when he gets called up on what he's actually said. Some people may agree with him, other's won't. But Farage deserves to be put under the same level of scrutiny as any other leader would.
And I can't say I'm worried about a procession of Romany Caravans, there hasn't been a big influx since the controls ended and I doubt there will be in the future (The thought of being greeted by Keith Vaz and Mark Pritchard on arrival would be enough to put anyone off.).
The tone has not changed at all. All that has changed is the way the media and the other parties are spinning what is being said. That is how effective smear campaigns work and this one is a doozy.
I learn more about you every day, Mr Dancer! It is clear that you live in utter luxury in the middle of a busy fruit farm!! No matter, it is nice to see the sun, my boys and I are involved in the all too short cricket season, a drinkable Semillion Chardonay is in the fridge and all the wasps seem (so far) to be with you!! Oh and there is a game of football later, which seems to cause some excitement!
the mask slipped... thoroughly nasty little man... BNP-lite... trainwreck
OK. Bertie, you clearly don't like him. But I think that calling someone a racist to shut down debate is old hat these days. We've seen it all before. It's the yawn-inducing three card trick of British politics. It tends to get greeted with "Not that one again!".
But good luck in using it if you want to take that line. Maybe it still does still work in Wales? You suggest it does so I'd be interested to see how big the Welsh welcome would be when the Romany caravans come swinging round the mountains. If you're right, and I'm sure you must be, they will be greeted with open arms and you'll all get on like a house on fire.
Have you considered setting up a Gypsies for Wales Facebook group? I think it could be really quite effective.
To be honest, until recent months I was quite ambivalent towards him. I thought UKIP was a pointless operation but was sympathetic to their stance on the EU. But the tone in recent months has definitely turned nastier. And it's not shutting down the debate when he gets called up on what he's actually said. Some people may agree with him, other's won't. But Farage deserves to be put under the same level of scrutiny as any other leader would.
And I can't say I'm worried about a procession of Romany Caravans, there hasn't been a big influx since the controls ended and I doubt there will be in the future (The thought of being greeted by Keith Vaz and Mark Pritchard on arrival would be enough to put anyone off.).
The tone has not changed at all. All that has changed is the way the media and the other parties are spinning what is being said. That is how effective smear campaigns work and this one is a doozy.
The smear campaign against UKIP and Farage hasn't been a doozy, it's been an abject failure.
"Don't pay any attention to what they write about you. Just measure it in inches." Andy Warhol
@DavidBrackenbury Perhaps they are illegal Bulgarian/Romanian wasps, allowed into the country by those damned left wingers?
Nah, Bulgarian / Romanian wasps have free movement and can come and go as they please. They live a lot more than 50 to a house though. As Mr. Dancer will agree!
the mask slipped... thoroughly nasty little man... BNP-lite... trainwreck
OK. Bertie, you clearly don't like him. But I think that calling someone a racist to shut down debate is old hat these days. We've seen it all before. It's the yawn-inducing three card trick of British politics. It tends to get greeted with "Not that one again!".
But good luck in using it if you want to take that line. Maybe it still does still work in Wales? You suggest it does so I'd be interested to see how big the Welsh welcome would be when the Romany caravans come swinging round the mountains. If you're right, and I'm sure you must be, they will be greeted with open arms and you'll all get on like a house on fire.
Have you considered setting up a Gypsies for Wales Facebook group? I think it could be really quite effective.
To be honest, until recent months I was quite ambivalent towards him. I thought UKIP was a pointless operation but was sympathetic to their stance on the EU. But the tone in recent months has definitely turned nastier. And it's not shutting down the debate when he gets called up on what he's actually said. Some people may agree with him, other's won't. But Farage deserves to be put under the same level of scrutiny as any other leader would.
And I can't say I'm worried about a procession of Romany Caravans, there hasn't been a big influx since the controls ended and I doubt there will be in the future (The thought of being greeted by Keith Vaz and Mark Pritchard on arrival would be enough to put anyone off.).
I think that the 'you are a racist' approach to immigration is dead now. I just googled Barbara Roche's 'Euracism' and see that no journalist has used that word this week. A kite that never got off the ground because people are sick to the back teeth with it. Maybe I'm counting my chickens, but I expect the leftwing commentators, academics and their devotes will regroup and find a different point of attack after Thursday.
Totally off topic but need a quickish answer as the diplomacy turn phase for the PB game is up in three hours
Reading this "The number of pieces that a player has on the board is determined by the number of "supply centers" which he controls. The supply centers are marked by black dots on the board. Control of the supply centers is determined by which piece last occupied the supply center in the Fall move of the game. The moves of the game are figured as 2 moves each year beginning in the year 1901. There is a Spring move and a Fall move. "
My interpretation is if I have a unit in say Rumania at the beginning of the fall movement phase but then move that unit to another territory I still have that supply centre count towards my total for the build phase as long as no other country moves into Rumania in the fall.
I know that the media are allowed to print/tell lies about everything all of a sudden as long as its called scrutiny, but this is quite agood tweet from Guido
Mr. B, I cannot help you on this, but I am mid way through the first book and it is excellent. Well written and reflects much Medieval history (Wars of the Roses, etc.)
the mask slipped... thoroughly nasty little man... BNP-lite... trainwreck
OK. Bertie, you clearly don't like him. But I think that calling someone a racist to shut down debate is old hat these days. We've seen it all before. It's the yawn-inducing three card trick of British politics. It tends to get greeted with "Not that one again!".
But good luck in using it if you want to take that line. Maybe it still does still work in Wales? You suggest it does so I'd be interested to see how big the Welsh welcome would be when the Romany caravans come swinging round the mountains. If you're right, and I'm sure you must be, they will be greeted with open arms and you'll all get on like a house on fire.
Have you considered setting up a Gypsies for Wales Facebook group? I think it could be really quite effective.
To be honest, until recent months I was quite ambivalent towards him. I thought UKIP was a pointless operation but was sympathetic to their stance on the EU. But the tone in recent months has definitely turned nastier. And it's not shutting down the debate when he gets called up on what he's actually said. Some people may agree with him, other's won't. But Farage deserves to be put under the same level of scrutiny as any other leader would.
And I can't say I'm worried about a procession of Romany Caravans, there hasn't been a big influx since the controls ended and I doubt there will be in the future (The thought of being greeted by Keith Vaz and Mark Pritchard on arrival would be enough to put anyone off.).
I think that the 'you are a racist' approach to immigration is dead now. I just googled Barbara Roche's 'Euracism' and see that no journalist has used that word this week. A kite that never got off the ground because people are sick to the back teeth with it. Maybe I'm counting my chickens, but I expect the leftwing commentators, academics and their devotes will regroup and find a different point of attack after Thursday.
Why should the result of the EU election change anything? Enoch received thousands of letters of support after his sacking. If anything that motivated the forces against intolerance to redouble their efforts. Of course, I accept that some UKIPs supports are ashamed of the party's antics in recent weeks - the scaremongering that EU immigrants will cause me to be made made redundant from my job etc. They're ashamed and just want everyone to quietly forget all that. But such shame - nor Richard Tyndall's contention that UKIP have always been this way, so what of it? - will silence the critics. Nor should it.
I have seen the first four episodes of series 1, and have the dvds for the rest of series 1 and the first 4 episodes of series 2.
The 5 book package will arrive on Monday from Amazon.
Should I -
a) watch the series first, then read the books, or
b) wait and read the books first, then watch the rest of the series?
My advice, from one who bought A Game of Thrones in 1996 - I have a first edition, is to read the the book and then the second book, A Clash of kings. Then do series 1 & 2 of the HBO TV show. And so on............
the mask slipped... thoroughly nasty little man... BNP-lite... trainwreck
Have you considered setting up a Gypsies for Wales Facebook group? I think it could be really quite effective.
To be honest, until recent months I was quite ambivalent towards him. I thought UKIP was a pointless operation but was sympathetic to their stance on the EU. But the tone in recent months has definitely turned nastier. And it's not shutting down the debate when he gets called up on what he's actually said. Some people may agree with him, other's won't. But Farage deserves to be put under the same level of scrutiny as any other leader would.
And I can't say I'm worried about a procession of Romany Caravans, there hasn't been a big influx since the controls ended and I doubt there will be in the future (The thought of being greeted by Keith Vaz and Mark Pritchard on arrival would be enough to put anyone off.).
I think that the 'you are a racist' approach to immigration is dead now. I just googled Barbara Roche's 'Euracism' and see that no journalist has used that word this week. A kite that never got off the ground because people are sick to the back teeth with it. Maybe I'm counting my chickens, but I expect the leftwing commentators, academics and their devotes will regroup and find a different point of attack after Thursday.
Why should the result of the EU election change anything? Enoch received thousands of letters of support after his sacking. If anything that motivated the forces against intolerance to redouble their efforts. Of course, I accept that some UKIPs supports are ashamed of the party's antics in recent weeks - the scaremongering that EU immigrants will cause me to be made made redundant from my job etc. They're ashamed and just want everyone to quietly forget all that. But such shame - nor Richard Tyndall's contention that UKIP have always been this way, so what of it? - will silence the critics. Nor should it.
"Enoch received thousands of letters of support after his sacking. If anything that motivated the forces against intolerance to redouble their efforts."
That is why immigration is still such a big issue to millions of people who feel no one is listening to them 45 years later. Political elite always think they know best, and never admit when they get it wrong.
Mr. B, I cannot help you on this, but I am mid way through the first book and it is excellent. Well written and reflects much Medieval history (Wars of the Roses, etc.)
Sorry David, A Game of thrones is nothing to do with the Wars of the Roses or Medieval history. It's a Fantasy, damn it! It take place on an imaginary world that is blessed or plagued with Magic. The fact that G R R uses a pre cannon and gunpowder background has nothing to do with Earth history.
Totally off topic but need a quickish answer as the diplomacy turn phase for the PB game is up in three hours
Reading this "The number of pieces that a player has on the board is determined by the number of "supply centers" which he controls. The supply centers are marked by black dots on the board. Control of the supply centers is determined by which piece last occupied the supply center in the Fall move of the game. The moves of the game are figured as 2 moves each year beginning in the year 1901. There is a Spring move and a Fall move. "
My interpretation is if I have a unit in say Rumania at the beginning of the fall movement phase but then move that unit to another territory I still have that supply centre count towards my total for the build phase as long as no other country moves into Rumania in the fall.
Correct or incorrect?
Incorrect. If you take a supply centre in the spring and then move out and leave it unoccupied in the autumn the you don't control that supply centre. To take a supply centre fro the first time, be it from a minor or another player, you have to have a unit occupying it at the end of the autumn turn. Once it is yours then you do not need to keep it garrisoned.
For example. in spring 1901 France moves from Marseilles to Spain and in the autumn that same unit moves to Portugal. Assuming no other unit interferes, at the end of year adjudications Spain would be neutral and Portugal would belong to France.
Mr. B, I cannot help you on this, but I am mid way through the first book and it is excellent. Well written and reflects much Medieval history (Wars of the Roses, etc.)
Sorry David, A Game of thrones is nothing to do with the Wars of the Roses or Medieval history. It's a Fantasy, damn it! It take place on an imaginary world that is blessed or plagued with Magic. The fact that G R R uses a pre cannon and gunpowder background has nothing to do with Earth history.
Well I agree that it is pure fantasy and we'll leave magic out of it, but the Lord of the North coming to the unfriendly capital and the Queen and her family remind me of the tensions between Edward IV, the Woodvilles and Richard of Gloucester. But I have only read half of the first book! (Nicked it off my son...)
"Patrick shouldn't have done it, that shouldn't have happened. But we're working in a very small team under extreme pressure- there's six or seven of us- and the little odd thing will happen here or there. We're all human after all.
James O'Brien hates Ukip - he's very open about it - so I went into 20 minutes of abuse thrown at me. But there's nothing he said that he hasn't said before or hasn't been said by others in the last few week"
You see I struggle with this kind of thing isam. You are saying this has been a huge issue for 45 years that hasn't been dealt with. What I therefore find bizarre is that in all that time nobody set up a political party to deal with it, or that parties that purported to deal with it or listen to this concern attracted such little support. Because ultimately you tend to come to the conclusion that when given the option to act voters don't bother and that there is little more to this than the opportunity for a good British whinge.
It's a very good article. A political class interchangeable between parties (BlairCleggCameron) who represent the increasingly narrow interests of themselves. Comments have been made about Labour no longer understanding the "white working class" - True. And Clegg binning every principle that ever defined Liberalism for a sniff at power - true. And Notting hill Tories adrift from what's left of their membership - true.
I'm not saying that UKIP and Farage represent the interests of those groups either. But they have managed to find a way to connect with the anger and fear of many of them. It doesn't matter to white working class voters that non-immigration UKIP policies would screw them. Or country set ex Tories being told to not vote Farage or get Milliband - not the issue that concerns them.
I watched the classic move Network last night. "I'm mad as he'll, and I'm not going to take this any more" could almost be tailor made for the mindset of most Ukip voters. BlairCleggCameron types don't want to accept that they make anyone mad, so mentioning this REALLY makes them mad so they start shooting the messenger. Ukip will not go away will not fade or go back home to big parties or anything the big 3 want until the big three start to speak to these voters.
Comments
Q. Which of the following best reflects your view?
A. "Romanian and Bulgarian citizens having the right to come and live in Britain will be damaging and the British government should have acted to restrict their right to live or work here, even if it means breaking EU laws"
35% (Con 44%, Lab 27%, LD 14%, UKIP 73%)
A. "Romanian and Bulgarian citizens having the right to come and live in Britain will be damaging, but the British government needs to obey the law and had no choice but to allow them in"
19% (Con 23%, Lab 19%, LD 22%, UKIP 12%)
A. "There is nothing wrong with Romanian and Bulgarian citizens having the right to come to live in Britain, and we should welcome it"
26% (Con 16%, Lab 35%, LD 53%, UKIP 4%)
DK: 18%
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/cfih5l44ks/Internal_Results_140516_Romanians and Bulgarians.pdf
An interesting post, Mr. Code. I am particulalry intrigued by this snippet,
"... If you register with a GP for example, your name and address will be centrally collated. If you give birth or are treated in a NHS hospital, ditto."
Centrally collated by which agency and who has access to the (non-medical) data?
David Herdson needs a long lie down in a darkened room.
No wonder more people are reading UK Polling Report.
Two lines, job done.
UK Polling Report can't hold a candle to the entertainment value of PB though?
http://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/local-news/update-men-from-dewsbury-and-heckmondwike-jailed-for-human-trafficking-1-6615353
I've never heard of a house like that full of Germans because Germans aren't poor enough to be exploited like that. A house full of Germans would more likely be professionals.
Sedgfield due to the Iraq war, and the candidates standing against him.
Also there was going to be an x factor style competition to select someone .
Even that had more justification in reality than this thread.
You have a problem with people being made to work for poverty wages and housed in bad conditions?
You damned commie!
"UKIP will never allow the false accusation of racism levelled by a politically correct elite to prevent the raising of issues that are of concern to the great majority of the British public.
Where there are differential crime rates between nationalities, it is perfectly legitimate to point this out and to discuss it in the public sphere and I shall continue to do so.
Police figures are quite clear that there is a high level of criminality within the Romanian community in Britain. This is not to say for a moment that all or even most Romanian people living in the UK are criminals.
"But it is to say that any normal and fair-minded person would have a perfect right to be concerned if a group of Romanian people suddenly moved in next door. So far as I can see most of those media commentators objecting to this statement are people living in million pound houses for whom the prospect of such a turn of events is not a real one.
http://www.ukip.org/ukip_leader_stands_by_his_assertion_that_people_have_a_right_to_be_concerned_if_a_group_of_romanians_move_in_next_door
http://yougov.co.uk/publicopinion/archive/10159/
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bygi8eZw-4q1V09QVkFGTm9VZDhVSm93QlZDUkd3SUdZZW5n/edit?usp=sharing
He was unmoved by your complaints.
Some people on here are fond of talking about the Ground War, of which these leaflets make up a part, perhaps a significant part of the effort, but is there any evidence that they work? Could it be that this leafleting is obsolete and is actually just some sort of macho game played by the parties ("We had 36 people out leafleting", "Really we had 52") that makes bugger all difference.
As for GOTV, how does this work? Telephone calls? How many people actually take cold calls these days? As soon as I hear, "Can I, please, speak to Mr. Hurst Llama?" I put the phone down or, if they are using one of those auto diallers (where you always get the pause before he caller speaks) the phone goes down*. If if I speak to the person I will have made up my mind when or if I am going to vote and having some party hack ring me up is not going to make me change my mind.
*I always hang up on cold calls unless I am in a playful mood in which case I ask them to hang on for a moment and go off and make a cup of tea, groom the cat, gossip with the neighbours, read a good book or whatever - if I feel like it I might play them some awful music (think TSE specials) while I do this.
Given the latest round of rules and regulations on claims for out of work benefits, this would logically lead to full employment.
Abstract thinking is fun for those who can manage it.
A lot of magazine advertising for big ticket items, like cars, is apparently intended to reassure recent buyers that they made the right decision, rather than to generate new sales. Perhaps political advertising works the same way?
This is kinda how the British state is run: at least since the 1930's, and in truth way before that. Powers are distributed to area representatives via the Crown, who further subdivide to their subordinates and so on. Information is fed up the chain, collated by a central authority (these days it's the ONS overseen by the UKSA) and then fed back down to the local authorities.
As for who can access it, that's a more difficult question. It's difficult because a quiet revolution is going on with civil datagathering and the circs are changing. When the Cameron administration came in, many of the laws preventing cross-compilation of data across different civil authorities (eg between local authorities and between, say, the NHS and local authorities) were modified or dropped, and all of a sudden statisticians were pushing on an open door. Because it's Britain, a committee had to be formed and the ADS and ADLS (http://www.adls.ac.uk ) were set up to allow researchers to use the data and hopefully find a way to cross-link enough data for the 2021 Census. David Willets has started awarding contracts if i recall correctly.
If we discount access via criminal methods or corruption, collated and anonymised data at a high level is published by ONS. To get down to a lower level (say by local authority or lower) you have to be an authorised researcher, so you'd need at least SC and CTC clearance (https://www.gov.uk/security-vetting-and-clearance ), you then access the data via an authorised terminal, you can't take paper, pens, your phone or PC in with you, you are provided with pen and sheets of paper. To access the details of a named individual is a very big ask, and would have to go up to Cabinet Office level.
Muslims burned trains carrying Hindu pilgrims, 59 people died, mostly women and children. The police did nothing to bring the perpetrators to justice. Modi was elected about two weeks prior and was barely getting his feet under the table at that point. Over around a week tensions built up and the government did nothing to alleviate them, tensions not just in the Hindu community, but also within the police rank and file that terrorists and extremists were not being brought to justice even though they knew who it was. Eventually it all spilled over and the lack of inaction on the part of the police and tens of thousands of Hindu people in Gujarat stormed Muslim communities. There was literally nothing that could be done. People blame the police for letting the riots get out of control here a few years ago, but over there what does one do against a mob of 10,000 men carrying machetes and axes wanting revenge against people who had perpetrated a crime against Hindu pilgrims. Not just that but having also pissed of rank and file police officers, who would even go out and control the mobs? The police commissioners might have wanted to do something, I think Modi probably did, but if your officers haven't turned up to work what can be done?
This idea that Modi is a "mass murderer" is completely ridiculous and has been whipped up by Congress and a compliant international media, the Indian Supreme Court cleared him of all charges, citing complete lack of evidence to support a case against him (unsurprising given that he had only been in the job for a few weeks). There have since been other accusations, but none with any substance and they are all from Congress supporters or allies.
On Modi's rule in Gujarat, he has engendered economic growth double India's while he has been in charge, he has turned dusty cities like Ahmedabad into shining beacons of India's prosperity. Hindus and Muslims alike have benefited from the economic gains made by his policies. The one that really stands out to me is the Tata factory, after months of negotiating with three different states the Tata company decided they couldn't be bothered to build a new factory in India. An hour later Modi tweeted Ratan Tata "Welcome to Gujarat", three days later they had hammered out a deal to open up a car factory in the state. Tata himself has said the best thing about dealing with Modi was that there was no quid quo pro, no side pay-off, no kala dhanda (corruption) to try and facilitate the move. He wanted the factory in Gujarat and with decent tax rates on offer, lots of land, and a motivated work force, they got it done. I don't think something like that would be possible over here even, let alone the rest of India. That factory employs Hindus and Muslims...
Finally, he smacked down the RSS early on in the campaign saying "toilets before temples" in response to them demanding the Ram temple to be rebuilt on the Ayodhya site, telling them that it wasn't going to happen and India has other priorities. Why flame up community tensions by building a controversial temple when there are hundreds of millions of people living in abject poverty.
People who read only western media articles about Modi and do the bare minimum of research are being fed Congress inspired lies. The Guardian, for example, has been publishing articles against Modi for a while now, two out of the three regular writers are associated with the Congress party, the third, Jason Burke, who is not, has been very even handed. He is the only one who pointed out that the anti-Muslim riots in Gujarat were in response to the train burnings by Muslim terrorists. The others try and imply that Modi whipped up a gang of people and sent them into Muslim areas like some sort of field marshal.
Anyway, Modi is India's Thatcher, or he can be, at least.
But you have no problem with a foreign company setting up in Britain, having their labour costs subsidised by the government, while off shoring their tax liabilities?
That's an awful lot of people who no longer participate in what democracy we have.
...
With upwards of 30 or 40 people living in a two-bedroom house, can you imagine the smell, the overcrowding, the dirt? People were living on scraps of food or slop that was reheated again and again. "
I wonder how many of them appeared on the Census data.
The other thing is the rubbish. As there's so many people the front gardens are always chokka with bin bags.
New Labour, Tory. Lib Dem. UKIP.....Pretty much all the major parties.
Do some basic maths? Even those champions of the free market,the Americans, have looked at the Astra Zenica bid, and went . Errr? Wait a goldarned minute.....something is going mightily wrong.
It informed me that they knew about all the things I was concerned about and how their policies were especially designed to suit me personally.
As said personal leaflet came from the Labour party and I have never or would ever vote Labour I suspect that that Labour's voting database is as flawed as the ones they inflicted upon the country whilst they were in government.
It also arrived several days after I had sent off my postal ballot.
I am indeed grateful for your post and the interesting links. I wish I had known that years ago.
Gary Becker proposed a remarkable way of dealing with immigration. He suggested selling the right to live and work in the US or the UK. His proposal was that the countries should set a price ($50,000, for example), and admit foreigners prepared to pay it. Of course certain categories such as terrorists or criminals would be excluded, but otherwise the doors would be open to those prepared to stump up the money.
http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/economics/gary-becker-was-right-part-four-immigration
Lib Dem MP Adrian Sanders calls on Clegg to stand down as Deputy PM.
Adrian Sanders 17th May '14 - 9:17am
It’s time for another and possibly last reshuffle before the General Election. Nick Clegg has attempted to give every MP prepared to enter coalition an opportunity to serve as a Minister and there are still some who have yet to be asked – my answer would be no btw – but it is also an opportunity to give someone else the chance to be Deputy Prime Minister and be a fresh face communicating our message to an electorate that seems unable to respond positively to what we have to say at the moment. Of course the SPADS and those around the Leader may be right in blaming the public for not seeing enough of the Leader that means they don’t get the message. I’m no match for the electoral expertise surrounding the Leader but it seems fair that if everyone has a chance to be a Minister at least one of my colleagues should have a change to be Deputy Prime Minister."
http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-the-general-election-is-near-are-we-ready-40138.html
But good luck in using it if you want to take that line. Maybe it still does still work in Wales? You suggest it does so I'd be interested to see how big the Welsh welcome would be when the Romany caravans come swinging round the mountains. If you're right, and I'm sure you must be, they will be greeted with open arms and you'll all get on like a house on fire.
Have you considered setting up a Gypsies for Wales Facebook group? I think it could be really quite effective.
EDIT to finish the sentence again as it disappeared
P.S. Experian and companies like them get the hump about this because they get access to the unexpurgated edition of the Voters Register and the less accurate that register is the less valuable Experian's services are. So they have a direct financial interest in forcing people to register. The people might have a different view.
" I've been involved in campaigns that the extra efforts could well have been the difference."
Fair enough, but that says to me that there is no evidence that leafleting actually achieves anything, but we dare not stop just in case.
If nobody is doing any research as to what works then nothing is going to get better and will probably get worse. A bit sad that political parties are being left so far behind the curve. FFS how many companies nowadays don't evaluate the effectiveness of their different marketing tactics?
What does that mean, Mr, Jones. In the military one sent out a reconnaissance teams and they would bring back information about the enemy dispositions and intentions. What useful information does dropping a leaflet through my door bring back?
Very local centric i.e. if you work a particular ward then leafletting tells you lots about what's going on.
P.S. Experian and companies like them get the hump about this because they get access to the unexpurgated edition of the Voters Register and the less accurate that register is the less valuable Experian's services are. So they have a direct financial interest in forcing people to register. The people might have a different view.
The Labour MP on the same programme estimated 3.5 million,still a lot,not registered.I'm pretty sure in my own mind the Poll Tax of 1990 started the rot,people just "disappeared".
It is an offence not to register but if LAs won't enforce it what might be the alternative solutions?
Democracy is precious but how far towards compulsion are we prepared to go to protect it?
And I can't say I'm worried about a procession of Romany Caravans, there hasn't been a big influx since the controls ended and I doubt there will be in the future (The thought of being greeted by Keith Vaz and Mark Pritchard on arrival would be enough to put anyone off.).
Must say I prefer winter to summer. Damned flies, and wasps.
A. Depeche Modi
(I'll get my dhoti...)
He has already been canonized on here for his "economic miracle" (along with several of his disciples), so Ed should be very nervous indeed.
[Obviously I could close the window fully, but this would entail me melting to death].
Perhaps they are illegal Bulgarian/Romanian wasps, allowed into the country by those damned left wingers?
The only thing on TV which interest me today is X-Men: First Class at 9pm (no spoilers please).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2630893/Licence-fee-outdated-gone-little-TWO-years-BBC-bosses-warned.html
"Don't pay any attention to what they write about you. Just measure it in inches."
Andy Warhol
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10684639/Dodging-TV-licence-will-not-be-a-crime.html
http://stone.ukip.org/newsroom/news/1243-ukip-s-lord-pearson-welcomes-a-proposal-by-ministers-that-would-mean-that-it-will-no-longer-be-a-criminal-offence-to-refuse-to-pay-the-tv-licence-fee
Reading this
"The number of pieces that a player has on the board is determined by the number of "supply centers" which he controls. The supply centers are marked by black dots on the board. Control of the supply centers is determined by which piece last occupied the supply center in the Fall move of the game. The moves of the game are figured as 2 moves each year beginning in the year 1901. There is a Spring move and a Fall move. "
My interpretation is if I have a unit in say Rumania at the beginning of the fall movement phase but then move that unit to another territory I still have that supply centre count towards my total for the build phase as long as no other country moves into Rumania in the fall.
Correct or incorrect?
http://news.sky.com/story/1262944/stuart-hall-not-guilty-of-all-but-one-charge
Guido Fawkes @GuidoFawkes 4h
The Sun says... pic.twitter.com/mmuLrbaCOa The Sun said... pic.twitter.com/WBOFQrybjT
I have seen the first four episodes of series 1, and have the dvds for the rest of series 1 and the first 4 episodes of series 2.
The 5 book package will arrive on Monday from Amazon.
Should I -
a) watch the series first, then read the books, or
b) wait and read the books first, then watch the rest of the series?
We're -1 today.
Blame me - I recommend those who are winning drink 500 quid bottles of whisky
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100271887/our-political-masters-are-horrified-by-ukip-trouble-is-the-voters-arent/
Well over 1000 comments in 4 hours!
That is why immigration is still such a big issue to millions of people who feel no one is listening to them 45 years later. Political elite always think they know best, and never admit when they get it wrong.
For example. in spring 1901 France moves from Marseilles to Spain and in the autumn that same unit moves to Portugal. Assuming no other unit interferes, at the end of year adjudications Spain would be neutral and Portugal would belong to France.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=75llyI2YcHM&
"Patrick shouldn't have done it, that shouldn't have happened. But we're working in a very small team under extreme pressure- there's six or seven of us- and the little odd thing will happen here or there. We're all human after all.
James O'Brien hates Ukip - he's very open about it - so I went into 20 minutes of abuse thrown at me. But there's nothing he said that he hasn't said before or hasn't been said by others in the last few week"
Read more at http://www.sevenoakschronicle.co.uk/EXCLUSIVE-Ukip-leader-Nigel-Farage-says-regrets/story-21107639-detail/story.html#xTucK5hmMiMG8tvc.99
You see I struggle with this kind of thing isam. You are saying this has been a huge issue for 45 years that hasn't been dealt with. What I therefore find bizarre is that in all that time nobody set up a political party to deal with it, or that parties that purported to deal with it or listen to this concern attracted such little support. Because ultimately you tend to come to the conclusion that when given the option to act voters don't bother and that there is little more to this than the opportunity for a good British whinge.
I'm not saying that UKIP and Farage represent the interests of those groups either. But they have managed to find a way to connect with the anger and fear of many of them. It doesn't matter to white working class voters that non-immigration UKIP policies would screw them. Or country set ex Tories being told to not vote Farage or get Milliband - not the issue that concerns them.
I watched the classic move Network last night. "I'm mad as he'll, and I'm not going to take this any more" could almost be tailor made for the mindset of most Ukip voters. BlairCleggCameron types don't want to accept that they make anyone mad, so mentioning this REALLY makes them mad so they start shooting the messenger. Ukip will not go away will not fade or go back home to big parties or anything the big 3 want until the big three start to speak to these voters.