Of course it was a harmless figure of speech, a metaphor which people would not have thought amiss for centuries past until very recently. But we live in the days of Newspeak, Mr Nabavi, and to use a metaphor or even simile that contains a word that the wimmin deem offensive is beyond the pale.
Very true, Mr Llama - but are you sure that 'beyond the pale' is still OK?
It ought to be, Mr. N, but I suppose some thick idiot will kick up a fuss at some stage. I once got into dreadful trouble at a meeting (in the public sector) for using the expression "the bitter end" - they said it was an expression used in slavery and therefore to utter it showed I was a racist - God's honest truth.
So on reflection perhaps using the expression "beyond the pale" is probably not wise, best perhaps to say, "Double-plus ungood" or become a prole; in which case one can say what one likes, drink cheap gin, look at government funded porn and shag oneself stupid (always thought Orwell missed something in his vision of the future).
And if he won’t, then the party should remove the whip - because that’s what we’d be calling for if a Tory did likewise. And this is no time – and no issue – for double standards.
Of course it was a harmless figure of speech, a metaphor which people would not have thought amiss for centuries past until very recently. But we live in the days of Newspeak, Mr Nabavi, and to use a metaphor or even simile that contains a word that the wimmin deem offensive is beyond the pale.
Very true, Mr Llama - but are you sure that 'beyond the pale' is still OK?
It's probably safe, as I would imagine very few are aware of the origins of the phrase enough to get offended, though it could happen. Still, it's not that common a prhase, if not exactly rare, so probably won't come up.
My favourite stories of people getting in trouble for using supposedly offensive phrases, if true, has to be ones involving the word niggardly, a word probably destined to die out in speech long before print due to its unfortunate phonetics.
It ought to be, Mr. N, but I suppose some thick idiot will kick up a fuss at some stage. I once got into dreadful trouble at a meeting (in the public sector) for using the expression "the bitter end" - they said it was an expression used in slavery and therefore to utter it showed I was a racist - God's honest truth.
LOL! That is brilliant!
Are you sure it wasn't a spoof - a competition to see who could invent the most ludicrously absurd example of PC nonsense and be taken seriously?
Prices for Con in Newark all contracting,the 2-7 on Betfair is approaching the true price so the 4-9 generally available by the books still represents value.
Does anybody still think CON won;t do it?
I still think UKIP have a good chance in Newark.
I think it depends on whether that Lab thing about soft-pedaling in Newark was true or spin. If it was spin because their vote had evaporated then strange things could be happening.
Precisely. It's possible old-fashioned Labour voters in Newark could vote for UKIP in large numbers in order to defeat the Tories. They'll never get a chance again. The Tories will easily win the seat at the general election.
Precisely. It's possible old-fashioned Labour voters in Newark could vote for UKIP in large numbers in order to defeat the Tories. They'll never get a chance again. The Tories will easily win the seat at the general election.
It ought to be, Mr. N, but I suppose some thick idiot will kick up a fuss at some stage. I once got into dreadful trouble at a meeting (in the public sector) for using the expression "the bitter end" - they said it was an expression used in slavery and therefore to utter it showed I was a racist - God's honest truth.
LOL! That is brilliant!
Are you sure it wasn't a spoof - a competition to see who could invent the most ludicrously absurd example of PC nonsense and be taken seriously?
Could have been Mr. N., but in the circumstances I doubt it. The charge was led by a woman who was, in today's terms, paid about £100k and she was backed by a pack of wimmin on £50k plus. All of them as ignorant as pigs and all been on the same diversity management courses where some even more ignorant fool had been packing their heads full of rubbish.
As someone whos wife died 18 months ago. I would just like to say I really dislike the expression that "X" has "passed". Passed what, GO? collect £200??? These euphemisms are all very current, but they don't help one iota., It wont be long before someone suggests teachers should be called by their first name..
Totally off topic, HurstLlama, but I caught your post yesterday mentioning Brute and a Thomas as well. Have you acquired another cat recently, and if so, how did Brute take to the new addition?
It ought to be, Mr. N, but I suppose some thick idiot will kick up a fuss at some stage. I once got into dreadful trouble at a meeting (in the public sector) for using the expression "the bitter end" - they said it was an expression used in slavery and therefore to utter it showed I was a racist - God's honest truth.
LOL! That is brilliant!
Are you sure it wasn't a spoof - a competition to see who could invent the most ludicrously absurd example of PC nonsense and be taken seriously?
Could have been Mr. N., but in the circumstances I doubt it. The charge was led by a woman who was, in today's terms, paid about £100k and she was backed by a pack of wimmin on £50k plus. All of them as ignorant as pigs and all been on the same diversity management courses where some even more ignorant fool had been packing their heads full of rubbish.
Of course it was a harmless figure of speech, a metaphor which people would not have thought amiss for centuries past until very recently. But we live in the days of Newspeak, Mr Nabavi, and to use a metaphor or even simile that contains a word that the wimmin deem offensive is beyond the pale.
Very true, Mr Llama - but are you sure that 'beyond the pale' is still OK?
It's probably safe, as I would imagine very few are aware of the origins of the phrase enough to get offended, though it could happen. Still, it's not that common a prhase, if not exactly rare, so probably won't come up.
My favourite stories of people getting in trouble for using supposedly offensive phrases, if true, has to be ones involving the word niggardly, a word probably destined to die out in speech long before print due to its unfortunate phonetics.
Those who are aware of its origins are the least likely to be offended, surely. Pale as in palisade or boundary. It's those who object to ordering black coffee (or is that a myth?) who are likely to be up in arms.
Of course it was a harmless figure of speech, a metaphor which people would not have thought amiss for centuries past until very recently. But we live in the days of Newspeak, Mr Nabavi, and to use a metaphor or even simile that contains a word that the wimmin deem offensive is beyond the pale.
Very true, Mr Llama - but are you sure that 'beyond the pale' is still OK?
It ought to be, Mr. N, but I suppose some thick idiot will kick up a fuss at some stage. I once got into dreadful trouble at a meeting (in the public sector) for using the expression "the bitter end" - they said it was an expression used in slavery and therefore to utter it showed I was a racist - God's honest truth.
So on reflection perhaps using the expression "beyond the pale" is probably not wise, best perhaps to say, "Double-plus ungood" or become a prole; in which case one can say what one likes, drink cheap gin, look at government funded porn and shag oneself stupid (always thought Orwell missed something in his vision of the future).
Mr Hurst as "beyond the pale" is from Ireland I fail to see how it could be an issue. "beyond the pale" dates back to the 14th century, when the part of Ireland that was under English rule was delineated by a boundary made of such stakes or fences, and known as the English Pale. To travel outside of that boundary, beyond the pale, was to leave behind all the rules and institutions of English society, which the English modestly considered synonymous with civilization itself.
Of course it was a harmless figure of speech, a metaphor which people would not have thought amiss for centuries past until very recently. But we live in the days of Newspeak, Mr Nabavi, and to use a metaphor or even simile that contains a word that the wimmin deem offensive is beyond the pale.
Very true, Mr Llama - but are you sure that 'beyond the pale' is still OK?
It ought to be, Mr. N, but I suppose some thick idiot will kick up a fuss at some stage. I once got into dreadful trouble at a meeting (in the public sector) for using the expression "the bitter end" - they said it was an expression used in slavery and therefore to utter it showed I was a racist - God's honest truth.
So on reflection perhaps using the expression "beyond the pale" is probably not wise, best perhaps to say, "Double-plus ungood" or become a prole; in which case one can say what one likes, drink cheap gin, look at government funded porn and shag oneself stupid (always thought Orwell missed something in his vision of the future).
Mr Hurst as "beyond the pale" is from Ireland I fail to see how it could be an issue. "beyond the pale" dates back to the 14th century, when the part of Ireland that was under English rule was delineated by a boundary made of such stakes or fences, and known as the English Pale. To travel outside of that boundary, beyond the pale, was to leave behind all the rules and institutions of English society, which the English modestly considered synonymous with civilization itself.
No quite MrG. pale is a generic term for a place within a law or jurisdiction, the Irish one being being the best known in the UK but there are others dotted around the world.
The front door of any hotel in Cumbernauld for instance would also fit.
And if he won’t, then the party should remove the whip - because that’s what we’d be calling for if a Tory did likewise. And this is no time – and no issue – for double standards.
Looking at the net satisfaction with the government figure of -22% it strikes me that it's a bit harsh. They've presided in a difficult time, and haven't made too awful a fist of it. I personally believe they've done quite well, but that's obviously a political view.
I wonder what a similar figure might have been in the 70s? Brown? Surely these values would have been way lower, or just -100% with Brown. If they weren't then I think it's clear that people aren't answering the question as asked.
Also if I think Clegg is terrible, and I also hate the LDs should I say satisfied?
A spectatorial feast ahead if Ed slips more. Odd how the machinations of the opposition's political machine are more fun than those of the party you support. (The Tories internal politics always fill me with dismay.)
As the woman in the picture is drinking a glass of sparkling wine, I suspect that she is not a practicing Muslim. More likely Hindu or Sikh. Or Christian, as there are millions of Indian Christians, particularly in Goa and Kerala.
I must say that Greens on 8% is a bit terrifying - I was happy when Lucas won because I thought a multi-party parliament would be good for democracy - But she's causing havoc.
While I have nothing but respect for the resident Greens on here (Neil and perhaps EiT), they are the party I detest beyond all else. To me, they are the anti-progress party. I would cast an anti-Green vote if I were in Brighton - and would be happy voting Con, Lib, Lab or UKIP to stop them. (I would not vote BNP. If it were a straight BNP vs Green fight then I might consider voting Green.)
Of course it was a harmless figure of speech, a metaphor which people would not have thought amiss for centuries past until very recently. But we live in the days of Newspeak, Mr Nabavi, and to use a metaphor or even simile that contains a word that the wimmin deem offensive is beyond the pale.
Very true, Mr Llama - but are you sure that 'beyond the pale' is still OK?
It ought to be, Mr. N, but I suppose some thick idiot will kick up a fuss at some stage. I once got into dreadful trouble at a meeting (in the public sector) for using the expression "the bitter end" - they said it was an expression used in slavery and therefore to utter it showed I was a racist - God's honest truth.
So on reflection perhaps using the expression "beyond the pale" is probably not wise, best perhaps to say, "Double-plus ungood" or become a prole; in which case one can say what one likes, drink cheap gin, look at government funded porn and shag oneself stupid (always thought Orwell missed something in his vision of the future).
Mr Hurst as "beyond the pale" is from Ireland I fail to see how it could be an issue. "beyond the pale" dates back to the 14th century, when the part of Ireland that was under English rule was delineated by a boundary made of such stakes or fences, and known as the English Pale. To travel outside of that boundary, beyond the pale, was to leave behind all the rules and institutions of English society, which the English modestly considered synonymous with civilization itself.
No quite MrG. pale is a generic term for a place within a law or jurisdiction, the Irish one being being the best known in the UK but there are others dotted around the world.
The front door of any hotel in Cumbernauld for instance would also fit.
I thought the etymology of "beyond the pale" was to do with the Russian Pale of Settlement where Jews were allowed to live. A jew who was outside that area was beyond the pale.
As the woman in the picture is drinking a glass of sparkling wine, I suspect that she is not a practicing Muslim. More likely Hindu or Sikh. Or Christian, as there are millions of Indian Christians, particularly in Goa and Kerala.
It is political dirty tricks to portray the crazies in any party as representative of that entire party, and it is indeed overtly negative, but it is at least taking things actual people have said or written, whereas the Labour PEB which drew such derision was just a rather pathetic skit portraying make believe statements as fact.
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
It's Con minority at 8/1 that looks the value. I really can't see the LDs going for coalition with the Tories again, it would just be too damaging to their attempted "honest broker" positioning. Labour might not want a coalition with the LD's if sufficiently close to 326 but could easily be tempted otherwise (they'd need to to get Cam out).
It's not clear how PP will pay out in the event of more unusual coalitions; I'd hope to be paid on Con minority if it was, say, Con+UUP.
As the woman in the picture is drinking a glass of sparkling wine, I suspect that she is not a practicing Muslim. More likely Hindu or Sikh. Or Christian, as there are millions of Indian Christians, particularly in Goa and Kerala.
The woman in the picture, his wife, is Sri Lankan.
But whats race got to do with it? He has criticised a religion. He is obviously not racist, as he has married a woman from the race that most muslims are (I assume)
The story is wrong as well. He has actually objected to a corner shop that is being used as a mosque without the necessary permission. Apparently non Muslims/people in the wrong dress are not allowed on the premises even though it is legally just a shop,, not a place of worship
As the woman in the picture is drinking a glass of sparkling wine, I suspect that she is not a practicing Muslim. More likely Hindu or Sikh. Or Christian, as there are millions of Indian Christians, particularly in Goa and Kerala.
The woman in the picture, his wife, is Sri Lankan.
But whats race got to do with it? He has criticised a religion. He is obviously not racist, as he has married a woman from the race that most muslims are (I assume)
The story is wrong as well. He has actually objected to a corner shop that is being used as a mosque without the necessary permission. Apparently non Muslims/people in the wrong dress are not allowed on the premises even though it is legally just a shop,, not a place of worship
Of course it was a harmless figure of speech, a metaphor which people would not have thought amiss for centuries past until very recently. But we live in the days of Newspeak, Mr Nabavi, and to use a metaphor or even simile that contains a word that the wimmin deem offensive is beyond the pale.
Very true, Mr Llama - but are you sure that 'beyond the pale' is still OK?
It ought to be, Mr. N, but I suppose some thick idiot will kick up a fuss at some stage. I once got into dreadful trouble at a meeting (in the public sector) for using the expression "the bitter end" - they said it was an expression used in slavery and therefore to utter it showed I was a racist - God's honest truth.
So on reflection perhaps using the expression "beyond the pale" is probably not wise, best perhaps to say, "Double-plus ungood" or become a prole; in which case one can say what one likes, drink cheap gin, look at government funded porn and shag oneself stupid (always thought Orwell missed something in his vision of the future).
Mr Hurst as "beyond the pale" is from Ireland I fail to see how it could be an issue. "beyond the pale" dates back to the 14th century, when the part of Ireland that was under English rule was delineated by a boundary made of such stakes or fences, and known as the English Pale. To travel outside of that boundary, beyond the pale, was to leave behind all the rules and institutions of English society, which the English modestly considered synonymous with civilization itself.
No quite MrG. pale is a generic term for a place within a law or jurisdiction, the Irish one being being the best known in the UK but there are others dotted around the world.
The front door of any hotel in Cumbernauld for instance would also fit.
I thought the etymology of "beyond the pale" was to do with the Russian Pale of Settlement where Jews were allowed to live. A jew who was outside that area was beyond the pale.
Of course it was a harmless figure of speech, a metaphor which people would not have thought amiss for centuries past until very recently. But we live in the days of Newspeak, Mr Nabavi, and to use a metaphor or even simile that contains a word that the wimmin deem offensive is beyond the pale.
Very true, Mr Llama - but are you sure that 'beyond the pale' is still OK?
It ought to be, Mr. N, but I suppose some thick idiot will kick up a fuss at some stage. I once got into dreadful trouble at a meeting (in the public sector) for using the expression "the bitter end" - they said it was an expression used in slavery and therefore to utter it showed I was a racist - God's honest truth.
So on reflection perhaps using the expression "beyond the pale" is probably not wise, best perhaps to say, "Double-plus ungood" or become a prole; in which case one can say what one likes, drink cheap gin, look at government funded porn and shag oneself stupid (always thought Orwell missed something in his vision of the future).
Mr Hurst as "beyond the pale" is from Ireland I fail to see how it could be an issue. "beyond the pale" dates back to the 14th century, when the part of Ireland that was under English rule was delineated by a boundary made of such stakes or fences, and known as the English Pale. To travel outside of that boundary, beyond the pale, was to leave behind all the rules and institutions of English society, which the English modestly considered synonymous with civilization itself.
No quite MrG. pale is a generic term for a place within a law or jurisdiction, the Irish one being being the best known in the UK but there are others dotted around the world.
The front door of any hotel in Cumbernauld for instance would also fit.
I thought the etymology of "beyond the pale" was to do with the Russian Pale of Settlement where Jews were allowed to live. A jew who was outside that area was beyond the pale.
Indeed. E Europe also had it's share of Pales. But the Dublin Pale is probably the best known in the British Isles.
It is political dirty tricks to portray the crazies in any party as representative of that entire party, and it is indeed overtly negative, but it is at least taking things actual people have said or written, whereas the Labour PEB which drew such derision was just a rather pathetic skit portraying make believe statements as fact.
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
The bloke at the end has never even been a member of UKIp
It is political dirty tricks to portray the crazies in any party as representative of that entire party, and it is indeed overtly negative, but it is at least taking things actual people have said or written, whereas the Labour PEB which drew such derision was just a rather pathetic skit portraying make believe statements as fact.
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
It also seems to assume LD voters are dumb. Vote LD to stop UKIP winning? Not going to happen. 'Vote LD to keep some of us on the gravy train', is more like it.
As someone whos wife died 18 months ago. I would just like to say I really dislike the expression that "X" has "passed". Passed what, GO? collect £200??? These euphemisms are all very current, but they don't help one iota., It wont be long before someone suggests teachers should be called by their first name..
"Passed" is horrible. "Died" is surely the phrase to use, or "Deceased" where the context is a reference. I quite like euphemisms when it chips in something about that person. "Omnium, sadly posted his last daft comment" for example would I think be preferable (in my undeceased eyes) to "Omnium died".
It is political dirty tricks to portray the crazies in any party as representative of that entire party, and it is indeed overtly negative, but it is at least taking things actual people have said or written, whereas the Labour PEB which drew such derision was just a rather pathetic skit portraying make believe statements as fact.
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
The bloke at the end has never even been a member of UKIp
As the woman in the picture is drinking a glass of sparkling wine, I suspect that she is not a practicing Muslim. More likely Hindu or Sikh. Or Christian, as there are millions of Indian Christians, particularly in Goa and Kerala.
The woman in the picture, his wife, is Sri Lankan.
But whats race got to do with it? He has criticised a religion. He is obviously not racist, as he has married a woman from the race that most muslims are (I assume)
The story is wrong as well. He has actually objected to a corner shop that is being used as a mosque without the necessary permission. Apparently non Muslims/people in the wrong dress are not allowed on the premises even though it is legally just a shop,, not a place of worship
Totally off topic, HurstLlama, but I caught your post yesterday mentioning Brute and a Thomas as well. Have you acquired another cat recently, and if so, how did Brute take to the new addition?
Ah, Mrs Lass, you hit on a touchy subject, at least as far as The Brute is concerned. He is getting on (17) and we thought it would be a good idea to get a young cat who would help him through his old age (young and old cats living together do that apparently) and would still be there when the Brute, inevitably, moves on. Good for him and good for us, you see.
As you may know, Herself is much involved in a local cat charity which is always seeking homes for cats that it has rescued. Obviously that was were we would look for our new companion cat, I left it to Herself to chose. She came home with Thomas, a really handsome black and white cat, who is about 17 years old.
Mrs Llama totally lost the plot and on top of that the two cats detest each other, can't stand even being in the same room unless food is on offer. Fortunately, because of my propensity to snore, I am seldom allowed in the marriage bed and that means that both moggies have someone to cuddle up to at night.
It is political dirty tricks to portray the crazies in any party as representative of that entire party, and it is indeed overtly negative, but it is at least taking things actual people have said or written, whereas the Labour PEB which drew such derision was just a rather pathetic skit portraying make believe statements as fact.
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
The bloke at the end has never even been a member of UKIp
Whilst amusing to titter at Labour's polling decline, it's quite surprising. Nothing special has really happened, so why have they had (at least temporarily) a drop in the polls?
It is political dirty tricks to portray the crazies in any party as representative of that entire party, and it is indeed overtly negative, but it is at least taking things actual people have said or written, whereas the Labour PEB which drew such derision was just a rather pathetic skit portraying make believe statements as fact.
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
The bloke at the end has never even been a member of UKIp
Perhaps you could strut and wear jackboots when you deliver leaflets. if nothing else it will keep half of PB happy.
It is human nature to feel more comfortable when there are heroes and villains... The left seem to be desperate for UKIP to be the villain so they can feel good about themselves, fair enough.
They are the ones sending shit through the post, bricking windows, storming meetings, shouting at pensioners, calling ethnic minorities "fakes", saying indians are traitors to their skin colour for supporting UKIP.
And the ones that arent saying it arent condemning it. Thats all it takes to stir up trouble
Whilst the number of religions is >0 then people will do this. I'm not entirely sure whether your post is suggesting that this is to be expected or is a terrible thing.
So tick for the government. Actually though some mild positives have wandered out of the economic stats, and all sorts of peripheral stuff like fears of a housing boom etc.
Perhaps too the 'devil you know' factor is at work.
Whilst amusing to titter at Labour's polling decline, it's quite surprising. Nothing special has really happened, so why have they had (at least temporarily) a drop in the polls?
The surprisingly thing is that it hasn't happened earlier. EdM has always been an unattractive proposition with a head full of expired leftist garbage.
8-1 on a Tory minority ain't bad IMO, though there's a lot of volatile weird polling about at present. The Euros are affecting GE VI at present to Labour's/Lib Dem's detriment as a) the Greens get a bit of publicity b) Labour have sod all to say about Europe because they are content enough with the status quo, whereas the Lib/UKIP/ Con are far more fired up by their versions of " more in", " out" and " out/ Euro Devo Max".
I suspect Labour will pick up a bit when the Euros are over and we can't read too much till post Sep 18th and the Indy Ref.
@ rsc 1000
I too have no intention of returning to an Iron Age mud hut and would vote for Karl Marx to keep the Greens out. Frack like hell and hand out condoms say I. Fewer people makes everything more sustainable.
It is political dirty tricks to portray the crazies in any party as representative of that entire party, and it is indeed overtly negative, but it is at least taking things actual people have said or written, whereas the Labour PEB which drew such derision was just a rather pathetic skit portraying make believe statements as fact.
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
The bloke at the end has never even been a member of UKIp
Perhaps you could strut and wear jackboots when you deliver leaflets. if nothing else it will keep half of PB happy.
It is human nature to feel more comfortable when there are heroes and villains... The left seem to be desperate for UKIP to be the villain so they can feel good about themselves, fair enough.
They are the ones sending shit through the post, bricking windows, storming meetings, shouting at pensioners, calling ethnic minorities "fakes", saying indians are traitors to their skin colour for supporting UKIP.
And the ones that arent saying it arent condemning it. Thats all it takes to stir up trouble
Still, whatever makes them happy
I am perfectly happy to condemn all the incidents that you mention. Are you happy to condemn this fellows rant against Muslims?
Of course it was a harmless figure of speech, a metaphor which people would not have thought amiss for centuries past until very recently. But we live in the days of Newspeak, Mr Nabavi, and to use a metaphor or even simile that contains a word that the wimmin deem offensive is beyond the pale.
Very true, Mr Llama - but are you sure that 'beyond the pale' is still OK?
It ought to be, Mr. N, but I suppose some thick idiot will kick up a fuss at some stage. I once got into dreadful trouble at a meeting (in the public sector) for using the expression "the bitter end" - they said it was an expression used in slavery and therefore to utter it showed I was a racist - God's honest truth.
So on reflection perhaps using the expression "beyond the pale" is probably not wise, best perhaps to say, "Double-plus ungood" or become a prole; in which case one can say what one likes, drink cheap gin, look at government funded porn and shag oneself stupid (always thought Orwell missed something in his vision of the future).
I have a horrible feeling that I pressed the Off Tpic button by mistake, having been thrown off by Vanilla ... my apologies to you, Mr Llama, if so.
As some small compensation I am quite sure that 'bitter end' is specifically a nautical term, referring to the end of the hawser or anchor cable opposite from that which is actually bent to the anchor. The cable - or at least some of it - is fastened to the bitts, upright members in the ship's structure on the forecastle. If the cable runs out so far as to leave the ends alone fastened to the bitts, as it might be when veering out cable in a storm in an anchorage, or trying to avoid being run on a lee shore, then one is in trouble ...
It is political dirty tricks to portray the crazies in any party as representative of that entire party, and it is indeed overtly negative, but it is at least taking things actual people have said or written, whereas the Labour PEB which drew such derision was just a rather pathetic skit portraying make believe statements as fact.
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
Indeed. It would be unfair, for example, to portray Mike Hancock or Chris Huhne as representative of all Lib Dems.
It is political dirty tricks to portray the crazies in any party as representative of that entire party, and it is indeed overtly negative, but it is at least taking things actual people have said or written, whereas the Labour PEB which drew such derision was just a rather pathetic skit portraying make believe statements as fact.
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
Indeed. It would be unfair, for example, to portray Mike Hancock or Chris Huhne as representative of all Lib Dems.
Or Cyril Smith, or Jeremy Thorpe, or Charles Kennedy...
Nope Short for Bloomberg. I have access to a terminal. I don;t like posting their stuff because they are very jealous of their content (Bloombergs are v expensive!!).
The report cites 'government officials who asked not to be named'
Nope Short for Bloomberg. I have access to a terminal. I don;t like posting their stuff because they are very jealous of their content (Bloombergs are v expensive!!).
Thank you. Will have to see it when it filters into the mainstream, I guess.
Predictably John Swinney has popped up to pretend that he really means "yes". Clearly when Scotland votes no they're going to pretend that the citizens really mean yes.
Predictably John Swinney has popped up to pretend that he really means "yes". Clearly when Scotland votes no they're going to pretend that the citizens really mean yes.
I thought Swinney wanted a currency union with Europe,
"The Scottish National Party yesterday launched its manifesto for the European elections and said Britain's reluctance to join the Euro was holding back Scotland. John Swinney, the SNP leader, claimed Scotland was ready to pass the five economic tests set by Gordon Brown, the Chancellor, for joining the single currency. Mr Swinney said the Scottish economy and exports would benefit from the European interest rates regime. "Scotland is being held back by not joining the single currency. Obviously such a decision could only be taken in a referendum. But we could take a positive decision that would give Scotland the type of financial framework that would allow us to prosper.""
Sure. All parties have a few skeletons in their closets.
UKIP though pretends to be different. Its current leader is a public school educated city trader, its previous leader was an old Etonian Lord (Incidentally, prior to UKIP what was the last party to be led by a member of the House of Lords?)
All fine and dandy, but pretending to be the natural party of working class Britain is a bit of a stretch.
I have a small sum on the Ladbrokes trifactor UKIP/Con/Labour at 16/1, so would be happy for them to come top in the Euros. I expect them to do less well in the Councils.
It is political dirty tricks to portray the crazies in any party as representative of that entire party, and it is indeed overtly negative, but it is at least taking things actual people have said or written, whereas the Labour PEB which drew such derision was just a rather pathetic skit portraying make believe statements as fact.
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
Indeed. It would be unfair, for example, to portray Mike Hancock or Chris Huhne as representative of all Lib Dems.
Or Cyril Smith, or Jeremy Thorpe, or Charles Kennedy...
Of course it was a harmless figure of speech, a metaphor which people would not have thought amiss for centuries past until very recently. But we live in the days of Newspeak, Mr Nabavi, and to use a metaphor or even simile that contains a word that the wimmin deem offensive is beyond the pale.
Very true, Mr Llama - but are you sure that 'beyond the pale' is still OK?
It ought to be, Mr. N, but I suppose some thick idiot will kick up a fuss at some stage. I once got into dreadful trouble at a meeting (in the public sector) for using the expression "the bitter end" - they said it was an expression used in slavery and therefore to utter it showed I was a racist - God's honest truth.
So on reflection perhaps using the expression "beyond the pale" is probably not wise, best perhaps to say, "Double-plus ungood" or become a prole; in which case one can say what one likes, drink cheap gin, look at government funded porn and shag oneself stupid (always thought Orwell missed something in his vision of the future).
I have a horrible feeling that I pressed the Off Tpic button by mistake, having been thrown off by Vanilla ... my apologies to you, Mr Llama, if so.
As some small compensation I am quite sure that 'bitter end' is specifically a nautical term, referring to the end of the hawser or anchor cable opposite from that which is actually bent to the anchor. The cable - or at least some of it - is fastened to the bitts, upright members in the ship's structure on the forecastle. If the cable runs out so far as to leave the ends alone fastened to the bitts, as it might be when veering out cable in a storm in an anchorage, or trying to avoid being run on a lee shore, then one is in trouble ...
That, my dear old Carnyx, is the point. You know its a very old maritime expression, I know it is too. It appears in Shakespeare and thus written a century or more before the slave trade took off. However, some ignorant fool, who was no doubt being paid serious money to run his diversity management courses, had told these ignorant wimmin that it was an expression used in slavery. Said wimmin, who lets not forget were all being paid very serious money by the taxpayer as managers of an important public service, were then happy to label someone as racist for no other reason than that person used a harmless and very old nautical expression.
Ahh, we have had the same dilemma, we have always had two cats since I used to foster for the cat protection league before our lads came along. Its now a few years since we lost Leo the Persian, and we have been keen for a while now to adopt another kitty. But Jasper never really took to Leo, and he still barely tolerates the dog after nearly 10 years. He will quite often ignore his own bed and kip in the dog's one just to wind her up! Leo and Holly on the other hand, got on so well that Leo would sleep with her when she was a puppy to keep her company!
Jasper is now 14, and has finally in his old age become quite an affectionate wee soul who does like being the only cat in the house. I had wondered about the idea of getting a young female, but like Mrs HurstLlama, I find myself drawn to the less popular elderly cats needing a home when I have visited the local rescue centre. I suspect that despite their collective age, Brute and Thomas are going to give you some entertaining moments as they learn to live with each other.
Totally off topic, HurstLlama, but I caught your post yesterday mentioning Brute and a Thomas as well. Have you acquired another cat recently, and if so, how did Brute take to the new addition?
Ah, Mrs Lass, you hit on a touchy subject, at least as far as The Brute is concerned. He is getting on (17) and we thought it would be a good idea to get a young cat who would help him through his old age (young and old cats living together do that apparently) and would still be there when the Brute, inevitably, moves on. Good for him and good for us, you see.
As you may know, Herself is much involved in a local cat charity which is always seeking homes for cats that it has rescued. Obviously that was were we would look for our new companion cat, I left it to Herself to chose. She came home with Thomas, a really handsome black and white cat, who is about 17 years old.
Mrs Llama totally lost the plot and on top of that the two cats detest each other, can't stand even being in the same room unless food is on offer. Fortunately, because of my propensity to snore, I am seldom allowed in the marriage bed and that means that both moggies have someone to cuddle up to at night.
Sure. All parties have a few skeletons in their closets.
UKIP though pretends to be different. Its current leader is a public school educated city trader, its previous leader was an old Etonian Lord (Incidentally, prior to UKIP what was the last party to be led by a member of the House of Lords?)
Conservatives with Douglas-Home? Iirc he was Tory leader and Prime Minister first, then resigned as a Lord and did a by-election etc.
"I suspect that despite their collective age, Brute and Thomas are going to give you some entertaining moments as they learn to live with each other."
They do, Mrs Lass, they do. Watching The Brute, whose real name is Samson, by the way, and Thomas in the garden pretending to ignore each other yet both desperately anxious to find out what the other one is up to is great entertainment. I also love the way all animosity is forgotten at meal times. They wait patiently together whilst it is prepared then, bowls side by side, only a few inches, apart they just get down to it before stalking off in opposite directions - before sneaking back a bit later to see what the other has left.
However, all that said, I don't recommend getting another boy cat of about the same age for Jasper. Maybe an older lady cat might do, but its asking a lot of an old moggie to have his life changed.
Predictably John Swinney has popped up to pretend that he really means "yes". Clearly when Scotland votes no they're going to pretend that the citizens really mean yes.
The version in the FT is better
Scottish banks would be stopped from printing sterling banknotes and Scots would need to hold on to pound currency that crossed the border if the country continued to use sterling after declaring independence, George Osborne has said.
The chancellor told the cross-party Scottish affairs committee on Wednesday that if Scots wanted to continue using the pound, they would do so without the authority of the Bank of England. Mr Osborne said this would mean Scotland could no longer mint its own distinctive pound banknotes. as it does today, Scots would also have to hold enough currency to run their economy.
It is political dirty tricks to portray the crazies in any party as representative of that entire party, and it is indeed overtly negative, but it is at least taking things actual people have said or written, whereas the Labour PEB which drew such derision was just a rather pathetic skit portraying make believe statements as fact.
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
Indeed. It would be unfair, for example, to portray Mike Hancock or Chris Huhne as representative of all Lib Dems.
Or Cyril Smith, or Jeremy Thorpe, or Charles Kennedy...
If only Charles Kennedy WAS reflective of all Lib Dems. Sadly the Party has been taken over by unscrupulous careerists like Clegg and Laws. I wonder whether there is a strong enough base to the party that has the will to move on from this rather grubby period in their history.
It is political dirty tricks to portray the crazies in any party as representative of that entire party, and it is indeed overtly negative, but it is at least taking things actual people have said or written, whereas the Labour PEB which drew such derision was just a rather pathetic skit portraying make believe statements as fact.
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
Indeed. It would be unfair, for example, to portray Mike Hancock or Chris Huhne as representative of all Lib Dems.
Or Cyril Smith, or Jeremy Thorpe, or Charles Kennedy...
If only Charles Kennedy WAS reflective of all Lib Dems. Sadly the Party has been taken over by unscrupulous careerists like Clegg and Laws. I wonder whether there is a strong enough base to the party that has the will to move on from this rather grubby period in their history.
That grubby period? You mean that period for the first time in nearly a century the Liberals and their successor parties were part of a peacetime government?
Predictably John Swinney has popped up to pretend that he really means "yes". Clearly when Scotland votes no they're going to pretend that the citizens really mean yes.
The version in the FT is better
Scottish banks would be stopped from printing sterling banknotes and Scots would need to hold on to pound currency that crossed the border if the country continued to use sterling after declaring independence, George Osborne has said.
The chancellor told the cross-party Scottish affairs committee on Wednesday that if Scots wanted to continue using the pound, they would do so without the authority of the Bank of England. Mr Osborne said this would mean Scotland could no longer mint its own distinctive pound banknotes. as it does today, Scots would also have to hold enough currency to run their economy.
While having made some mistakes (all parties do, and particularly ones that have been out of government a long time) generally I am happy with the LD ministers and their role in government. Cable has been a waste of space, but the remainder have performed well.
In the short term I expect the party to suffer, but in the longer term this will be recognised as a very competent government. The prospect of either Labour or Tory majority government red in tooth and claw is not a pleasant prospect.
It is political dirty tricks to portray the crazies in any party as representative of that entire party, and it is indeed overtly negative, but it is at least taking things actual people have said or written, whereas the Labour PEB which drew such derision was just a rather pathetic skit portraying make believe statements as fact.
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
Indeed. It would be unfair, for example, to portray Mike Hancock or Chris Huhne as representative of all Lib Dems.
Or Cyril Smith, or Jeremy Thorpe, or Charles Kennedy...
If only Charles Kennedy WAS reflective of all Lib Dems. Sadly the Party has been taken over by unscrupulous careerists like Clegg and Laws. I wonder whether there is a strong enough base to the party that has the will to move on from this rather grubby period in their history.
At the moment, that deposit allows them to print. Osborne is saying they won't be allowed to print. If someone wants to use a note in Scotland, it has to be one that is already there.
Comments
So on reflection perhaps using the expression "beyond the pale" is probably not wise, best perhaps to say, "Double-plus ungood" or become a prole; in which case one can say what one likes, drink cheap gin, look at government funded porn and shag oneself stupid (always thought Orwell missed something in his vision of the future).
'“Shut up Menschkin.A good wife doesn’t disagree with her master in public and a good little girl doesn’t lie about why shequit politics”.'
My favourite stories of people getting in trouble for using supposedly offensive phrases, if true, has to be ones involving the word niggardly, a word probably destined to die out in speech long before print due to its unfortunate phonetics.
"Hi Brian want a lift in the morning?"
He got back a text saying "wtf???"
What do you think "Brian" was auto corrected to?
Are you sure it wasn't a spoof - a competition to see who could invent the most ludicrously absurd example of PC nonsense and be taken seriously?
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/m62-chicken-crash-memorial-birds-7120414
Suggests 'No' are about to crack....and offer more goodies (extra tax powers, maybe even overseas embassies...).
http://www.libdems.org.uk/ask_yourself_a_question#
These euphemisms are all very current, but they don't help one iota.,
It wont be long before someone suggests teachers should be called by their first name..
Generally these mergers mark the peak of a boom, and just destroy value.
Fred the Shred may be able to elaborate....
http://www.titanictown.plus.com/L&N.PNG
Karl Turner MP@KarlTurnerMP·May 3
Just got in to find #UKIP crap on the door mat. It's off back #Freepost #VoteLabour pic.twitter.com/WM48FDnf6i
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/05/forget-coalition-lib-dems-labour-tempted-minority-government
Weren't they crying about Labours negative PPB last week?
Oh well, maybe it'll be 33rd time lucky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZW4R7tut2o
"beyond the pale" dates back to the 14th century, when the part of Ireland that was under English rule was delineated by a boundary made of such stakes or fences, and known as the English Pale. To travel outside of that boundary, beyond the pale, was to leave behind all the rules and institutions of English society, which the English modestly considered synonymous with civilization itself.
http://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/race_row_erupts_after_brent_ukip_candidate_slates_muslims_in_ranting_email_1_3600791
The front door of any hotel in Cumbernauld for instance would also fit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcJs4qJPQ_M
I wonder what a similar figure might have been in the 70s? Brown? Surely these values would have been way lower, or just -100% with Brown. If they weren't then I think it's clear that people aren't answering the question as asked.
Also if I think Clegg is terrible, and I also hate the LDs should I say satisfied?
A spectatorial feast ahead if Ed slips more. Odd how the machinations of the opposition's political machine are more fun than those of the party you support. (The Tories internal politics always fill me with dismay.)
Neither is positive, which is unfortunate, but in terms of standard political dealing one was a little more over the line than the other in terms of presenting a very partisan view as 'fact', hence the Labour one drawing mroe criticism than a standard negative ad I suspect. If they'd spliced in actual footage of some Tory cllr saying something offensive or stupid, it would still have been condemned by Tories, but it would have been par for the course.
It's not clear how PP will pay out in the event of more unusual coalitions; I'd hope to be paid on Con minority if it was, say, Con+UUP.
But whats race got to do with it? He has criticised a religion. He is obviously not racist, as he has married a woman from the race that most muslims are (I assume)
The story is wrong as well. He has actually objected to a corner shop that is being used as a mosque without the necessary permission. Apparently non Muslims/people in the wrong dress are not allowed on the premises even though it is legally just a shop,, not a place of worship
I have never accused UKIP of being a racist party, but it certainly contains elements who express themselves in a very culturally intolerant manner.
http://stoneofdestiny.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/mapbeyondthepale.jpg
Maybe UKIP should respond with a video of this
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/douglas-murray/2014/04/are-you-fit-to-be-a-liberal-democrat-a-response-to-nick-cohen/
PS Sorry about your good lady.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/13/guardian-bully-tactics-against-ukip-councillor
SuperPussy to the rescue !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9MrA3sHqlo
As you may know, Herself is much involved in a local cat charity which is always seeking homes for cats that it has rescued. Obviously that was were we would look for our new companion cat, I left it to Herself to chose. She came home with Thomas, a really handsome black and white cat, who is about 17 years old.
Mrs Llama totally lost the plot and on top of that the two cats detest each other, can't stand even being in the same room unless food is on offer. Fortunately, because of my propensity to snore, I am seldom allowed in the marriage bed and that means that both moggies have someone to cuddle up to at night.
Whilst amusing to titter at Labour's polling decline, it's quite surprising. Nothing special has really happened, so why have they had (at least temporarily) a drop in the polls?
They are the ones sending shit through the post, bricking windows, storming meetings, shouting at pensioners, calling ethnic minorities "fakes", saying indians are traitors to their skin colour for supporting UKIP.
And the ones that arent saying it arent condemning it. Thats all it takes to stir up trouble
Still, whatever makes them happy
Perhaps too the 'devil you know' factor is at work.
Con 4/7 (PP, Lad) (from 8/11)
Lab 6/4 (Lad)
LD 33/1
UKIP 50/1
BNP 100/1
Grn 200/1
"kin ell"
Missing a "k" to link in the middle ?
8-1 on a Tory minority ain't bad IMO, though there's a lot of volatile weird polling about at present. The Euros are affecting GE VI at present to Labour's/Lib Dem's detriment as a) the Greens get a bit of publicity b) Labour have sod all to say about Europe because they are content enough with the status quo, whereas the Lib/UKIP/ Con are far more fired up by their versions of " more in", " out" and " out/ Euro Devo Max".
I suspect Labour will pick up a bit when the Euros are over and we can't read too much till post Sep 18th and the Indy Ref.
@ rsc 1000
I too have no intention of returning to an Iron Age mud hut and would vote for Karl Marx to keep the Greens out. Frack like hell and hand out condoms say I. Fewer people makes everything more sustainable.
Lab 5/6 (PP)
Con 11/10 (Lad)
UKIP 200/1
LD 250/1
http://vote.research.yale.edu//samplemiser.html
You could write to this guy, and beg him to bring it back. Tell him we need it for our general election in 2015!
https://sites.google.com/site/donaldpgreen/home
I guess he's took it with him, moving from Yale to Columbia... ;-)
As some small compensation I am quite sure that 'bitter end' is specifically a nautical term, referring to the end of the hawser or anchor cable opposite from that which is actually bent to the anchor. The cable - or at least some of it - is fastened to the bitts, upright members in the ship's structure on the forecastle. If the cable runs out so far as to leave the ends alone fastened to the bitts, as it might be when veering out cable in a storm in an anchorage, or trying to avoid being run on a lee shore, then one is in trouble ...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/14/us-italy-berlusconi-idUSBREA4D07320140514
Would appreciate a link. Thanks.
Nope Short for Bloomberg. I have access to a terminal. I don;t like posting their stuff because they are very jealous of their content (Bloombergs are v expensive!!).
The report cites 'government officials who asked not to be named'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27405129
Predictably John Swinney has popped up to pretend that he really means "yes". Clearly when Scotland votes no they're going to pretend that the citizens really mean yes.
"The Scottish National Party yesterday launched its manifesto for the European elections and said Britain's reluctance to join the Euro was holding back Scotland.
John Swinney, the SNP leader, claimed Scotland was ready to pass the five economic tests set by Gordon Brown, the Chancellor, for joining the single currency.
Mr Swinney said the Scottish economy and exports would benefit from the European interest rates regime.
"Scotland is being held back by not joining the single currency. Obviously such a decision could only be taken in a referendum. But we could take a positive decision that would give Scotland the type of financial framework that would allow us to prosper.""
twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/466603384792174593
http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/05/exposed-how-the-lib-dems-are-still-backing-suspended-mike-hancock/
UKIP though pretends to be different. Its current leader is a public school educated city trader, its previous leader was an old Etonian Lord (Incidentally, prior to UKIP what was the last party to be led by a member of the House of Lords?)
All fine and dandy, but pretending to be the natural party of working class Britain is a bit of a stretch.
I have a small sum on the Ladbrokes trifactor UKIP/Con/Labour at 16/1, so would be happy for them to come top in the Euros. I expect them to do less well in the Councils.
Jasper is now 14, and has finally in his old age become quite an affectionate wee soul who does like being the only cat in the house. I had wondered about the idea of getting a young female, but like Mrs HurstLlama, I find myself drawn to the less popular elderly cats needing a home when I have visited the local rescue centre. I suspect that despite their collective age, Brute and Thomas are going to give you some entertaining moments as they learn to live with each other.
Conservatives with Douglas-Home? Iirc he was Tory leader and Prime Minister first, then resigned as a Lord and did a by-election etc.
"I suspect that despite their collective age, Brute and Thomas are going to give you some entertaining moments as they learn to live with each other."
They do, Mrs Lass, they do. Watching The Brute, whose real name is Samson, by the way, and Thomas in the garden pretending to ignore each other yet both desperately anxious to find out what the other one is up to is great entertainment. I also love the way all animosity is forgotten at meal times. They wait patiently together whilst it is prepared then, bowls side by side, only a few inches, apart they just get down to it before stalking off in opposite directions - before sneaking back a bit later to see what the other has left.
However, all that said, I don't recommend getting another boy cat of about the same age for Jasper. Maybe an older lady cat might do, but its asking a lot of an old moggie to have his life changed.
@BobaFett
Filipino/Filipina
Latino/Latina
Jew/Jewess
Mister/Mistress
Debutant/Debutante
Lion/Lioness
Tiger/Tigress
Wolf/She-wolf
I thought the Scottish banks already had to do that:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21145103
While having made some mistakes (all parties do, and particularly ones that have been out of government a long time) generally I am happy with the LD ministers and their role in government. Cable has been a waste of space, but the remainder have performed well.
In the short term I expect the party to suffer, but in the longer term this will be recognised as a very competent government. The prospect of either Labour or Tory majority government red in tooth and claw is not a pleasant prospect.