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  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @FalseFlag

    Accusations of "historical ethnic prejudice" coming from the person that continues to refer to Nuland by her family's historical Jewish name? My only preference is for liberal democracies, rather than unpleasant militant autocracies like Putin's. Your prejudice, however, is very apparent.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Pagan, it's my second, the first is ongoing, and I'm Russia in both.

    Mr. Llama, that's not very patriotic.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I've decided I won't be voting either Con or Lab (or BNP) in the Euro elections, but all other options are open.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    German media reporting 400 US Mercenaries have been hired and are active in the Ukraine. Following on from German media exposes on the snipers at Maidan and that the CIA are 'advising' the Kiev government looks like the German US split on events there are getting serious. Already angered China, and now Germany getting pissed.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-11/400-blackwater-mercs-deployed-ukraine-against-separatists-german-press-reports

    Reports coming in of another massacre, this time in Krasnoarmeisk.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,593
    Charles said:

    Next said:

    JackW said:

    A small consideration for the PB community but I'm minded to the view that :

    Ed Miliband will never be Prime Minister.

    Similar comments were made about Mrs T in the late seventies.

    The question of who has the greater intellectual self-confidence can only be determined by head-to-head debates,which Cameron is so determined to avoid.The answer is that Cameron suffers from Lack of Moral Fibre.

    Which officer would you trust if you were in the trenches about to go over the top?Young Miliband would lead his troops over the top and take the first bullet.Cameron,on the other hand,strikes me as the sort who would remain in the trenches,snivelling,with his head in his hands complaining of PTSD and crying out for nanny.

    You mean the Cameron who had the guts to give his speech without notes in 2005 to electrify his leadership campaign.

    Compared to the Miliband who stabbed his own brother in the back to win his?

    These references to Miliband stabbing his brother in the back drive me crazy.

    David Miliband had his chance to run for the leadership in 2007 and ducked it - thus proving that he didn't have what it takes. He could have made bids in 2008 and 2008 but no - like Brown before him he wanted it gift wrapped on a plate. Pathetic.

    Ed had the bottle to take him on and Labour got the better brother.





    If the situation was simply that Ed ran against David in the leadership campaign then fair play to him. I don't think, however, that would explain the bitterness that David clearly feels. This means that there are two possible explanations:

    (a) David Miliband is unbelievable arrogant and believed the leadership was his by right. Possible, certainly, but seems unlikely given that the anger is clearly festering.

    (b) There was a story that I heard which was that Ed Miliband actively persuaded his brother not to stand against Brown. *IF* this was true and *IF* his motive was that he (Ed) would have the opportunity to become PM - which he probably would never have if his brother was leader of the Labour Party - then this would explain the bitterness.

    I have no way of knowing whether (b) is true or not. *IF* it is, then it would explain a lot of things - and Ed Miliband would absolutely deserve his reputation as a backstabber.
    I think the main beef D.Miliband (and/or his supporters) had with the E.Miliband leadership campaign was the shameless playing of the "Iraq" card.
    Because Ed didn't become an MP until 2005, he could truthfully say he never voted for the invasion of Iraq in 2003.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    When will the Ukraine "referendum" results be announced?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    To combine today's two threads.

    Tories voted against AV because AV isn't PR, and AV is the system that allowed Ed Miliband to become leader, and he's crap.

    AV = Ed Miliband
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    AndyJS said:

    When will the Ukraine "referendum" results be announced?

    Direct from ITAR-TASS:

    DONETSK, May 11, /ITAR-TASS/. Voting at the self-determination referendum in Ukraine’s eastern Donetsk region is finished with all balloting stations closed, Boris Litvinov, a coordinator of the central election commission of the Donetsk People’s Republic and a co-chairman of presidium of the Donetsk People’s Republic, told Itar-Tass late on Sunday, adding that the turnout had exceeded 70 percent.

    “According to preliminary data, the turnout was 71.4 percent,” he said.

    Problems emerged in Mariupol and Krasnoarmeisl,” Litvinov noted. “Due to security considerations, polling stations in Mariupol were closed at 17:00 local time (18:00 Moscow time), and at 16:00 local time (17:00 Moscow time) - in Krasnoarmeisk.”

    “The referendum results will be made public within two days,” he said, adding that preliminary results would be available overnight to Monday.

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    AndyJS said:

    When will the Ukraine "referendum" results be announced?

    I read somewhere it would take a few days but I'd guess it will be sooner that that for momentum reasons.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Austria for a change. I have never won with Austria....

    Incidentally, the latest PB Diplomacy game is up and running.

    I'm Russia, again. Still, I do quite like the Winter Palace.

    Dang, I have got England. I hate playing England.
    Want to swap!?!
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Another excellent call, many thanks
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    To combine today's two threads.

    Tories voted against AV because AV isn't PR, and AV is the system that allowed Ed Miliband to become leader, and he's crap.

    AV = Ed Miliband

    Tories instead opted for the only system which would deliver a majority Labour government. They even financed the campaign and stuffed their partners in the process.

    I wonder how Labour will send the Thank You message. Probably, they wouldn't bother.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Freggles, you've got the chance to re-establish the Roman Empire!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. England, you're very kind.

    I feel a bit flukey. I forgot that Vettel's penalty would push the Force Indias up to 10th and 11th on the grid. I suspect Ladbrokes forgot too.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Alex Salmond fails to apologise for Putin praise in letter to Ukranian expats http://t.co/Lz34Udi4GT

    More lying by Tory supporter who tried

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: Today's loony SNP MSP: http://t.co/aUV4xUcCfq

    desperate even by your very low standards, do you get out at all.
    Do you agree that when you denigrate Scotland's FM you denigrate Scotland?

    When it is blatant lies and you are a lying Tory nomark , yes. Only a cretin would read that article and come to the conclusion that Alex Salmond praised Putin. The fact that Scott lies constantly when knowing the truth and that you try to support his lies says a lot about Tories.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Labour appears to be in the same position the Conservatives were in around 2005 - Good policies but the people presenting them were about as popular as a cup of sick.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    If only more interviewers were like Brillo.

    http://order-order.com/2014/05/11/watch-dougie-alexander-gets-brutally-brillod/

    He managed to tear Dougie apart without resorting to constant interrupting ala Today program on R4. Simply did his homework and asked the right questions that showed up the flaws / inconsistencies. That I believe is what it should be about, holding politicians to account.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    Mr. England, you're very kind.

    I feel a bit flukey. I forgot that Vettel's penalty would push the Force Indias up to 10th and 11th on the grid. I suspect Ladbrokes forgot too.

    Was a cracking race.

    Lewis' ability to hold on may turn out to be as pivotal as Caesar's victory at The Battle of Munda
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Ashley Cole left out of England's world cup squad.

    Courageous decision by Roy.

    Also, Manchester United big 27m for Luke Shaw.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    Only a cretin would read that article and come to the conclusion that Alex Salmond praised Putin.

    So this isn't praise for Putin?
    Alex Salmond has revealed his admiration for "certain aspects" of Vladimir Putin's leadership and praised the way Russia's national pride has been restored.
    FFS.

    No criticism of the Sainted Eck will be tolerated. The Nats are getting truly scary.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10792044/Alex-Salmond-I-admire-certain-aspects-of-Vladimir-Putins-leadership.html
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Eagles, don't get over-excited, Spain's hard for overtaking and Vettel did the exact same thing to Hamilton in 2011.

    Mr. Urquhart, cheers for that link. Neil should be the election coverage anchor. Best political TV journalist in the country.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Ashley Cole left out of England's world cup squad.

    Courageous decision by Roy.

    Also, Manchester United big 27m for Luke Shaw.

    Lot of money for a left back, though he could well develop into another Bale.

    Madness to leave Cole behind, neither Baines or Shaw are particularly good defenders. If you were to ask Ronaldo which one he'd least like to play against it would definitely be Cole.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    Charles said:



    Charles

    Please would you explain why you think:

    1) Cameron announcing demands beforehand is bad negotiation

    2) Cameron saying beforehand that he will support remaining in the EU under any circumstances is good negotiation

    I'm sure that such an experienced negotiator as yourself should be able to explain why these two statements aren't contradictory.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited May 2014

    Ashley Cole left out of England's world cup squad.

    Courageous decision by Roy.

    Also, Manchester United big 27m for Luke Shaw.

    Didn't the Daily Mail have the leaked squad in it entirety this morning? They definitely stated it was Shaw and not Cole going.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited May 2014
    Sebastian Payne at the Coffee House Blog - Nigel Farage ties himself in knots over Ukip manifesto — again
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:



    Charles

    Please would you explain why you think:

    1) Cameron announcing demands beforehand is bad negotiation

    2) Cameron saying beforehand that he will support remaining in the EU under any circumstances is good negotiation

    I'm sure that such an experienced negotiator as yourself should be able to explain why these two statements aren't contradictory.

    1) Because (a) as soon as you create "red lines" the people on the other side of the table will pocket any implied concessions and then move on to other areas and (b) because the diversity of views in the country will lead to lots of people commenting on it, chipping in, debating and undermining the PM's negotiating position. You may not like him, or have voted for him, but he is the country's representative in this matter and "noises off" will weaken his ability to get the best deal available

    2) It's positioning: he's presenting himself as a good guy under pressure from "unreasonable" principals (the voters). He's encouraging the people on the other side to help him out of a tough spot, while also laying up the last minute play "I can accept this, but it's going to be voted down. Give me a little more and I think I can sell it to my bosses"
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Matthew Goodwin ‏@GoodwinMJ 34m

    How those who intend to vote #UKIP at 2015 GE say they voted at 2010 GE (based on @Survation data) --> pic.twitter.com/cmoabLEMNa

    twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/465592743394574336
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565

    Austria for a change. I have never won with Austria....

    Grow a beard and you'll be fine.

    Hope everyone else who is fighting campaigns on the doorsteps are still going strong...10 days to go.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    Ashley Cole left out of England's world cup squad.

    Courageous decision by Roy.

    Also, Manchester United big 27m for Luke Shaw.

    Didn't the Daily Mail have the leaked squad in it entirety this morning? They definitely stated it was Shaw and not Cole going.
    Not seen the Daily Mail.

    I'm not sure why I'm even talking about football, hate the sodding sport.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    TSE the other day noted the rapid turnaround in Scotland when voters decided they decisively preferred Salmond. But the positin is rather different here:

    -Although Cameroin is much better known and reasonably respected, he doesn't really have much of a fan club which switches votes just because he's wonderful. None of the main party leaders do (arguably Boris does). Being mildly preferred just isn't enough to overcome the dislike felt for the Conservative Party.

    - The comparison is now pretty long-standing - people have reached a view on who they prefer, and it's priced in to current voting intentions.

    Some Tory strategists think that an intensive anti-Miliband campaign will swing lots of votes in the final weeks. The problem is that it sits uneasily with the positive "Things are getting better" message - "Things are getting better and the Opposition leader is a swine" doesn't scan well.

    Incidentally, I was on DM's team, and know some people (not David himself) who were very angry about the result, but I've not heard the story that Charles suggests. I think that David just felt sod it, I'll do something else. There doesn't seem to me arrogant - it's more sensible than hanging around like Ted Heath having every frown interpreted by the press as simmering revolt.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Charles said:

    Next said:

    JackW said:

    A small consideration for the PB community but I'm minded to the view that :

    Ed Miliband will never be Prime Minister.

    Similar comments were made about Mrs T in the late seventies.

    The question of who has the greater intellectual self-confidence can only be determined by head-to-head debates,which Cameron is so determined to avoid.The answer is that Cameron suffers from Lack of Moral Fibre.



    You mean the Cameron who had the guts to give his speech without notes in 2005 to electrify his leadership campaign.

    Compared to the Miliband who stabbed his own brother in the back to win his?

    These references to Miliband stabbing his brother in the back drive me crazy.

    David Miliband had his chance to run for the leadership in 2007 and ducked it - thus proving that he didn't have what it takes. He could have made bids in 2008 and 2008 but no - like Brown before him he wanted it gift wrapped on a plate. Pathetic.

    Ed had the bottle to take him on and Labour got the better brother.





    If the situation was simply that Ed ran against David in the leadership campaign then fair play to him. I don't think, however, that would explain the bitterness that David clearly feels. This means that there are two possible explanations:

    (a) David Miliband is unbelievable arrogant and believed the leadership was his by right. Possible, certainly, but seems unlikely given that the anger is clearly festering.

    (b) There was a story that I heard which was that Ed Miliband actively persuaded his brother not to stand against Brown. *IF* this was true and *IF* his motive was that he (Ed) would have the opportunity to become PM - which he probably would never have if his brother was leader of the Labour Party - then this would explain the bitterness.

    I have no way of knowing whether (b) is true or not. *IF* it is, then it would explain a lot of things - and Ed Miliband would absolutely deserve his reputation as a backstabber.
    I think the main beef D.Miliband (and/or his supporters) had with the E.Miliband leadership campaign was the shameless playing of the "Iraq" card.
    Because Ed didn't become an MP until 2005, he could truthfully say he never voted for the invasion of Iraq in 2003.
    Blaming his brother for talking him out of standing shows how weak David Miliband is

    You have to take responsibility for your decisions and that includes who you let influence those decisions

    More or less everything is your own fault in my opinion, don't blame others
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    Charles said:



    Charles

    Please would you explain why you think:

    1) Cameron announcing demands beforehand is bad negotiation

    2) Cameron saying beforehand that he will support remaining in the EU under any circumstances is good negotiation

    I'm sure that such an experienced negotiator as yourself should be able to explain why these two statements aren't contradictory.

    1. Cameron has to say something because people in the UK want to hear what he proposes to do. To say nothing would get the kippers saying "oh, we don't know what he will negotiate". However if you listened to him on Marr today he did not give all details. Much of the detail will be discussed with allies in the EU and it could never remain completely secret.

    2. Cameron did not actually say that he would support staying in EU in any circumstance. He certainly wants to particularly if he gets his way in negotiations. But the nation will have a say for the first time in decades. Something which the kippers can't deliver.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Ashley Cole left out of England's world cup squad.

    Courageous decision by Roy.

    Also, Manchester United big 27m for Luke Shaw.

    Lot of money for a left back, though he could well develop into another Bale.

    Madness to leave Cole behind, neither Baines or Shaw are particularly good defenders. If you were to ask Ronaldo which one he'd least like to play against it would definitely be Cole.
    Ashley cole is the worlds best left sided defender

    Crazy to leave him out unless you also leave out Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney

    I would have nothing against hodgson taking an u23 squad to brazil and jettisoning the old guard

    But if he is picking a squad on merit, Cole should be in it, and as an Arsenal fan I can't stand him
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited May 2014

    TSE the other day noted the rapid turnaround in Scotland when voters decided they decisively preferred Salmond. But the positin is rather different here:

    -Although Cameroin is much better known and reasonably respected, he doesn't really have much of a fan club which switches votes just because he's wonderful. None of the main party leaders do (arguably Boris does). Being mildly preferred just isn't enough to overcome the dislike felt for the Conservative Party.

    - The comparison is now pretty long-standing - people have reached a view on who they prefer, and it's priced in to current voting intentions.

    Some Tory strategists think that an intensive anti-Miliband campaign will swing lots of votes in the final weeks. The problem is that it sits uneasily with the positive "Things are getting better" message - "Things are getting better and the Opposition leader is a swine" doesn't scan well.

    Incidentally, I was on DM's team, and know some people (not David himself) who were very angry about the result, but I've not heard the story that Charles suggests. I think that David just felt sod it, I'll do something else. There doesn't seem to me arrogant - it's more sensible than hanging around like Ted Heath having every frown interpreted by the press as simmering revolt.

    Yet Ed is more disliked than the Tory Party.

    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2543/Like-Him-Like-His-Party.aspx?view=wide
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    Only a cretin would read that article and come to the conclusion that Alex Salmond praised Putin.

    So this isn't praise for Putin?
    Alex Salmond has revealed his admiration for "certain aspects" of Vladimir Putin's leadership and praised the way Russia's national pride has been restored.
    FFS.

    No criticism of the Sainted Eck will be tolerated. The Nats are getting truly scary.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10792044/Alex-Salmond-I-admire-certain-aspects-of-Vladimir-Putins-leadership.html

    I'm not terribly sure what the issue is with whether he praised him or not. Most of the public are pretty worried about Russia vs 'the West', but it's a big mistake to assume that they are convinced by Putin's bogeyman persona as portrayed in the MSM. Praising certain aspects of Hitler's leadership maybe. Putin not so much.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    isam said:

    Ashley Cole left out of England's world cup squad.

    Courageous decision by Roy.

    Also, Manchester United big 27m for Luke Shaw.

    Lot of money for a left back, though he could well develop into another Bale.

    Madness to leave Cole behind, neither Baines or Shaw are particularly good defenders. If you were to ask Ronaldo which one he'd least like to play against it would definitely be Cole.
    Ashley cole is the worlds best left sided defender

    Crazy to leave him out unless you also leave out Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney

    I would have nothing against hodgson taking an u23 squad to brazil and jettisoning the old guard

    But if he is picking a squad on merit, Cole should be in it, and as an Arsenal fan I can't stand him
    I' m a Chelsea fan and much as he has been brilliant for us Lampard should not be going, he is over the top these days. However Terry is by far our best centre back.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    perdix said:

    Charles said:



    Charles

    Please would you explain why you think:

    1) Cameron announcing demands beforehand is bad negotiation

    2) Cameron saying beforehand that he will support remaining in the EU under any circumstances is good negotiation

    I'm sure that such an experienced negotiator as yourself should be able to explain why these two statements aren't contradictory.

    1. Cameron has to say something because people in the UK want to hear what he proposes to do. To say nothing would get the kippers saying "oh, we don't know what he will negotiate". However if you listened to him on Marr today he did not give all details. Much of the detail will be discussed with allies in the EU and it could never remain completely secret.

    2. Cameron did not actually say that he would support staying in EU in any circumstance. He certainly wants to particularly if he gets his way in negotiations. But the nation will have a say for the first time in decades. Something which the kippers can't deliver.

    On (1) I suspect that he'll say something nearer the time, although there are some broad hints emerging. But it will be a statement of principles - and once the ground is prepared - rather than the detail his opponents are demanding

    (2) I don't recall what he said. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the kind of false memory the Kippers have of Lisbon

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Negotiations are inherently different when it is a one off discussion or whether it is part of a long term relationship. In the EU or out of it we are in a long term relationship with the EU.

    So being the broker between the existing EU order and the desires of the British public is a reasonable position to be in. If the negotiations go nowhere then the referendum will be on Brexit. If they go well then a Euro-devo-max would be an option, and the polling suggests that this is the most popular option. Devo-max needs to be agreed as a framework before it appears on the ballot.

    International organizations are of mutual benefit. Imagine how the Baltic's and Poland would feel with current events if not in the EU family or NATO. For all their faults these organizations have immensely helped the cause of peace and unity in Europe.

    Charles said:



    Charles

    Please would you explain why you think:

    1) Cameron announcing demands beforehand is bad negotiation

    2) Cameron saying beforehand that he will support remaining in the EU under any circumstances is good negotiation

    I'm sure that such an experienced negotiator as yourself should be able to explain why these two statements aren't contradictory.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Ashley Cole left out of England's world cup squad.

    Courageous decision by Roy.

    Also, Manchester United big 27m for Luke Shaw.

    Lot of money for a left back, though he could well develop into another Bale.

    Madness to leave Cole behind, neither Baines or Shaw are particularly good defenders. If you were to ask Ronaldo which one he'd least like to play against it would definitely be Cole.
    Ashley cole is the worlds best left sided defender

    Crazy to leave him out unless you also leave out Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney

    I would have nothing against hodgson taking an u23 squad to brazil and jettisoning the old guard

    But if he is picking a squad on merit, Cole should be in it, and as an Arsenal fan I can't stand him
    I' m a Chelsea fan and much as he has been brilliant for us Lampard should not be going, he is over the top these days. However Terry is by far our best centre back.

    isam said:

    Ashley Cole left out of England's world cup squad.

    Courageous decision by Roy.

    Also, Manchester United big 27m for Luke Shaw.

    Lot of money for a left back, though he could well develop into another Bale.

    Madness to leave Cole behind, neither Baines or Shaw are particularly good defenders. If you were to ask Ronaldo which one he'd least like to play against it would definitely be Cole.
    Ashley cole is the worlds best left sided defender

    Crazy to leave him out unless you also leave out Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney

    I would have nothing against hodgson taking an u23 squad to brazil and jettisoning the old guard

    But if he is picking a squad on merit, Cole should be in it, and as an Arsenal fan I can't stand him
    I' m a Chelsea fan and much as he has been brilliant for us Lampard should not be going, he is over the top these days. However Terry is by far our best centre back.
    Agree about Terry as well. Our best two defenders won't be at the World Cup

    If the Arsenal had kept Cole and signed Terry we would have ruled the prem the last ten years
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The campaign for Scottish independence is being funded almost solely by two lottery winners, and has received far fewer small donations than the No campaign.

    Yes Scotland finally revealed its accounts following months of sustained pressure and speculation that it was struggling to secure financial support. They show that Colin and Chris Weir, who won £161 million in a Euromillions draw, have donated £2.5 million since April last year, on top of another £1  million previously. It means that the couple, from Ayrshire, have supplied the campaign with almost 80 per cent of its cash.

    The books also show that Yes Scotland is struggling to secure as many small donations as might be expected, given its perceived strong grassroots support.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4086555.ece
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    But not by Labour voters. It doesn't give the Tories any extra votes if they dislike the other side, and in a 3-4 party system you don't need anything like 50%.

    I think the Tory vote is pretty solid too, by the way, bar the UKIP seepage. Their problem is the mass departure of LibDems to Labour.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Very telling :


    "Michel Sapin, his finance minister, is quite frank about the relationship between austerity and growth: ‘One does not go without the other… Without the control of our public spending, there can be no sustainable recovery.’ The new Prime Minister, Manuel Valls, has declared that he owes ‘the French people the truth’. Namely, ‘We must break the train of debt that, progressively and stealthily, is tying our hands.’
    fitalass said:
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939

    RobD said:

    Oh, and if it helps massage the egos of our northern brethren, they are perfectly welcome to keep the existing British Pound, and the rest of the UK can establish a new currency, which we could take as an opportunity to knock a zero off the end, so that 1 New English Pound (NEP) was equal in value to £10.

    Would be quite nice to bring the price of a pint down to 30p! Can't think of anything that costs <10p nowadays so why not ;-)</p>
    A few years back, Turkey changed from the Old Turkish Lira to the New Turkish Lira by knocking six noughts off the end of their currency ...

    If you think we've got problems with our exchange rate, then you should read the following:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_lira
    A great shame, as I would have enjoyed telling someone "you look like a million lira".

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    Charles said:

    perdix said:

    Charles said:



    Charles

    Please would you explain why you think:

    1) Cameron announcing demands beforehand is bad negotiation

    2) Cameron saying beforehand that he will support remaining in the EU under any circumstances is good negotiation

    I'm sure that such an experienced negotiator as yourself should be able to explain why these two statements aren't contradictory.

    1. Cameron has to say something because people in the UK want to hear what he proposes to do. To say nothing would get the kippers saying "oh, we don't know what he will negotiate". However if you listened to him on Marr today he did not give all details. Much of the detail will be discussed with allies in the EU and it could never remain completely secret.

    2. Cameron did not actually say that he would support staying in EU in any circumstance. He certainly wants to particularly if he gets his way in negotiations. But the nation will have a say for the first time in decades. Something which the kippers can't deliver.

    (2) I don't recall what he said. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the kind of false memory the Kippers have of Lisbon

    Its a false memory you seem to share:

    " That's also why Cameron has said that he would argue to stay in. He's posing as the reasonable guy, who wants to do a deal, but you (the other EU countries) have to help him convince his boss. "

    Now please explain why that's not a negotiating blunder. Surely it would be more effective not to have already revealed that he would advocate an IN vote ? He could then use the uncertainty to get a better deal by keeping the threat of advocating OUT in a referendum.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    But not by Labour voters. It doesn't give the Tories any extra votes if they dislike the other side, and in a 3-4 party system you don't need anything like 50%.

    I think the Tory vote is pretty solid too, by the way, bar the UKIP seepage. Their problem is the mass departure of LibDems to Labour.

    EdM is liked by Labour voters and by the Red Liberals. Who gives a toss about the others ?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Ashley Cole left out of England's world cup squad.

    Courageous decision by Roy.

    Also, Manchester United big 27m for Luke Shaw.

    Lot of money for a left back, though he could well develop into another Bale.

    Madness to leave Cole behind, neither Baines or Shaw are particularly good defenders. If you were to ask Ronaldo which one he'd least like to play against it would definitely be Cole.
    Ashley cole is the worlds best left sided defender

    Crazy to leave him out unless you also leave out Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney

    I would have nothing against hodgson taking an u23 squad to brazil and jettisoning the old guard

    But if he is picking a squad on merit, Cole should be in it, and as an Arsenal fan I can't stand him
    I' m a Chelsea fan and much as he has been brilliant for us Lampard should not be going, he is over the top these days. However Terry is by far our best centre back.

    isam said:

    Ashley Cole left out of England's world cup squad.

    Courageous decision by Roy.

    Also, Manchester United big 27m for Luke Shaw.

    Lot of money for a left back, though he could well develop into another Bale.

    Madness to leave Cole behind, neither Baines or Shaw are particularly good defenders. If you were to ask Ronaldo which one he'd least like to play against it would definitely be Cole.
    Ashley cole is the worlds best left sided defender

    Crazy to leave him out unless you also leave out Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney

    I would have nothing against hodgson taking an u23 squad to brazil and jettisoning the old guard

    But if he is picking a squad on merit, Cole should be in it, and as an Arsenal fan I can't stand him
    I' m a Chelsea fan and much as he has been brilliant for us Lampard should not be going, he is over the top these days. However Terry is by far our best centre back.
    Agree about Terry as well. Our best two defenders won't be at the World Cup

    If the Arsenal had kept Cole and signed Terry we would have ruled the prem the last ten years
    Arsenal tapped up Gallas and Terry in 2002/3, a year later after Abramovich turned up Chelsea fans were at Highbury singing shall we buy a ground for you,

    Terry is the best English natural leader since Adams and we need that type in Brazil.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Andy Burnham came up with a policy for the blank sheet of paper, but it seems to have been interpreted as positioning for a leadership bid:

    http://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2014/mar/07/labour-health-policy-social-care

    To me it sounds an excellent plan to integrate care, remove some of the AQP provisions of the Lansley bill that would lead to privatization and put some democratic local legitimacy into the NHS. I am sorry that Ed Milliband would not back it.

    But not by Labour voters. It doesn't give the Tories any extra votes if they dislike the other side, and in a 3-4 party system you don't need anything like 50%.

    I think the Tory vote is pretty solid too, by the way, bar the UKIP seepage. Their problem is the mass departure of LibDems to Labour.

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    "we won't let it rest there"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    surbiton said:

    But not by Labour voters. It doesn't give the Tories any extra votes if they dislike the other side, and in a 3-4 party system you don't need anything like 50%.

    I think the Tory vote is pretty solid too, by the way, bar the UKIP seepage. Their problem is the mass departure of LibDems to Labour.

    EdM is liked by Labour voters and by the Red Liberals. Who gives a toss about the others ?
    What happened to One Nation Labour?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    More polls here than anyone could ask for:
    http://www.europeanvoice.com/page/european-elections-2014-the-polls-european-voice/4014.aspx
    FN may win in France; Greens doing well in most places, otherwise quite varied.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited May 2014

    Matthew Goodwin ‏@GoodwinMJ 34m

    How those who intend to vote #UKIP at 2015 GE say they voted at 2010 GE (based on @Survation data) --> pic.twitter.com/cmoabLEMNa

    twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/465592743394574336

    So UKIP are taking more votes from the LDs than the Conservatives? Now that is unexpected.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited May 2014
    Britain will not stop EU migrants coming here to work, says Cameron

    Prime Minister says EU rules allowing people to move freely between countries are “important” and will remain in place, despite controversy over the immigration they allow

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10823753/Britain-will-not-stop-EU-migrants-coming-here-to-work-says-Cameron.html

    That isn't going to get the UKIP vote heading back to the Tories.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Another centre-left party running at about 33-35% in the polls is the Swedish Social Democratic Party. The election is 4 days before the Scottish referendum:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_general_election,_2014#Poll_results
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited May 2014
    UKIP at 11-2 with Paddy in Newark. I just can't see it going anything other than true blue myself though.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564

    Matthew Goodwin ‏@GoodwinMJ 34m

    How those who intend to vote #UKIP at 2015 GE say they voted at 2010 GE (based on @Survation data) --> pic.twitter.com/cmoabLEMNa

    twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/465592743394574336

    So UKIP are taking more votes from the LDs than the Conservatives? Now that is unexpected.
    I've met a few of them on doorsteps. They are mostly protest voters, keen to show the established parties what they think of them. The LDs used to be a natural repository for that; now, obviously not. These voters are mostly uninterested in fine points of policy and just want to create a stir, so the fact that the two parties disagree on everything is irrelevant.

    The more ideological anti-establishment LDs are going Green.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2014
    Pulpstar said:

    UKIP at 11-2 with Paddy in Newark. I just can't see it going anything other than true blue myself though.

    Don't you think we need to wait for the Euro election result? If UKIP get 33% in the Euros they'd probably be on about 40% in Newark. Rural Notts will almost certainly be better than average for the party.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Matthew Goodwin ‏@GoodwinMJ 34m

    How those who intend to vote #UKIP at 2015 GE say they voted at 2010 GE (based on @Survation data) --> pic.twitter.com/cmoabLEMNa

    twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/465592743394574336

    So UKIP are taking more votes from the LDs than the Conservatives? Now that is unexpected.
    It is if one thinks of LD supporters living in metropolitan areas. But of course a lot of them live in places like rural Devon, Cornwall, Somerset, and many are actually quite Eurosceptic.
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    I can't think of what I should write;
    It just seems unreal or trite.
    On Limerick Day
    (Which happens today)

    I just don't know whether it's right.

    Twenty years have already gone by
    Since John Smith said his final goodbye.
    We still mourn his passing
    With memories lasting
    'Twas too early for any to die.

    I'm normal, I am not insane;
    But others are just such a pain:
    They're often quite mad,
    Or crazy, or bad;
    At least I am normal: that's plain.

    In Ukraine it's all very sad
    As people get more and more mad
    All over Lugansk
    And in Sloviansk
    It all looks increasingly bad.

    In other strange lands far away
    Where peasants chew grass & make hay
    Live peculiar bumpkins
    Who only eat pumpkins;
    Make sure we keep them at bay!
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    The way things are developing in eastern Ukraine reminds me of the manoeuvrings of the Serbs within Croatia (Krajina) just before the civil war there.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Morning all,

    While I wait for my 7'0 clock start time for Today programme I shall give a brief weekend review-

    Lewis did well.

    Dana International was more fanciable.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    I may be turning into an old fuddy duddy but I still prefer women without beards.

    According to the ST yesterday the BoE is going to increase its growth forecast again this week to 3.5% and implicitly suggest that the first interest rate rises will be in Q1 of 2015. This is the longest run of increases in growth forecasts since 1997. I still think that Q4 of this year for the first modest rise is more likely and politically easier as well.

    Many economists seem to have assumed that the UK economy would slow down a bit in the second half of this year. It appears the Bank does not agree. We will also get yet more good news on unemployment this week as well.

    Is it really conceivable that the great British public will throw out a government which has produced such stunning results in time for the election and bring back those responsible for the mess? As the economic results move from good to excellent surely some credit will accrue? There is not a lot of evidence of this so far but the Labour vote is starting to soften which gives some hope.

  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Morning all and on SKY News they have an "exclusive Euro poll" which is giving the numbers
    UKIP 31, Labour 25, Tories 23, LibDems 9. Is this a poll we have already seen elsewhere and if not can TSE/OGH find out about it?
    Supposedly done by YouGov

    There must be a fairly strong possibility of Labour being 3rd next week.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    Only a cretin would read that article and come to the conclusion that Alex Salmond praised Putin.

    So this isn't praise for Putin?
    Alex Salmond has revealed his admiration for "certain aspects" of Vladimir Putin's leadership and praised the way Russia's national pride has been restored.
    FFS.

    No criticism of the Sainted Eck will be tolerated. The Nats are getting truly scary.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10792044/Alex-Salmond-I-admire-certain-aspects-of-Vladimir-Putins-leadership.html

    Scott, you really are thick. I admire certain aspects of your posting , ie constantly posting other people's twits, however I think you are a real plonker.

    Can your pea brain take that in and realise that I am not really praising you there.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The row over Alex Salmond’s praise of Vladimir Putin erupted again last night when his efforts to address criticism from Ukrainians in Scotland were condemned.

    The body which represents the Ukranian diaspora in Scotland had written to the first minister demanding an apology for his statement in an interview that he admired “certain aspects” of the Russian president. Yesterday, the organisation revealed it had received a response but it was a “standard, somewhat tardy explanation strewn with party political rhetoric” and did not offer the public apology requested.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4087171.ece
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Morning all and on SKY News they have an "exclusive Euro poll" which is giving the numbers
    UKIP 31, Labour 25, Tories 23, LibDems 9. Is this a poll we have already seen elsewhere and if not can TSE/OGH find out about it?
    Supposedly done by YouGov

    There must be a fairly strong possibility of Labour being 3rd next week.

    Details of SkyNews YouGov Euros poll here

    http://news.sky.com/story/1259558/ukip-set-for-comfortable-win-in-euro-elections

    There's also said to be an Opinium Euros poll for Mail - has anybody got a link?
This discussion has been closed.