Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This morning’s YouGov should ease some of the Tory jitters

SystemSystem Posts: 11,916
edited May 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This morning’s YouGov should ease some of the Tory jitters


The changes in today’s YouGov are all within the margin of error – even so they will be enough to relieve some of the pressure on the blue team.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Time was it would have been the other way round - UKIP up in an opinion poll but failing to make headway in a real election. A better night for UKIP than the Conservatives then.
  • Options
    Fat_SteveFat_Steve Posts: 361
    Ease Tory jitters?
    Perhaps this too
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/may/09/labour-election-victory-2015-distant-prospect

    "In an article for Progress, the New Labour pressure group, the YouGov president, Peter Kellner, describes the polling as "profoundly troubling" for Labour, saying that despite the unpopularity of the government, Labour has uncomfortably small leads and has been unable to generate wide public enthusiasm."

    It seems that 2015 has 2 main outcomes
    - A Tory or current coalition govt continues in some form
    OR
    - Ed Milliband is Prime Minister

    Both are impossible, but one must happen.
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Fat_Steve said:

    It seems that 2015 has 2 main outcomes
    - A Tory or current coalition govt continues in some form
    OR
    - Ed Milliband is Prime Minister

    Both are impossible, but one must happen.

    It is 2015. The Conservatives and Lib Dems have both lost seats and votes, but Labour are short of an overall majority, only twenty seats ahead of the Conservatives and behind the Conservatives in vote share. The Lib Dems retain enough seats to form a government with either party.

    You are Nick Clegg. The most unpopular of the party leaders. What do you do?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 40,322
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    Hospitals leader: NHS reorganisation 'coming home to roost' in A&E failure

    The organisation representing English hospitals has said the government’s NHS reorganisation is in part to blame for the failure to maintain low accident and emergency waiting times.


    http://www.hsj.co.uk/news/acute-care/hospitals-leader-nhs-reorganisation-coming-home-to-roost-in-ae-failure/5058432.article?blocktitle=Headlines&contentID=7838

    The liar who used his family to make personal promises, and broke them as soon as he could

    I don't subscribe to HSJ: the header says 'in part'.

    Does the article say what the other parts are?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    tim said:

    Hospitals leader: NHS reorganisation 'coming home to roost' in A&E failure

    The growth in attendance at A&E predates the NHS reforms and has been linked to the decline in GP out of hours service - thanks to the contracts negotiated by the previous government. This wasn't the first time Labour "stuffed their mouths with gold"

    If its Cameron's fault - why have waiting times in Scotland trebled?

    The number of patients left "languishing" in hospital A&E units has more than trebled in some parts of Scotland, according to Labour.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-22472386
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tim said:

    Hospitals leader: NHS reorganisation 'coming home to roost' in A&E failure

    The organisation representing English hospitals has said the government’s NHS reorganisation is in part to blame for the failure to maintain low accident and emergency waiting times.


    http://www.hsj.co.uk/news/acute-care/hospitals-leader-nhs-reorganisation-coming-home-to-roost-in-ae-failure/5058432.article?blocktitle=Headlines&contentID=7838

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH2EmVGowCk

    The liar who used his family to make personal promises, and broke them as soon as he could

    And yet Labour has not pledged to undo any of the changes. Why is that?

    It is rather simplistic to blame the increase in waiting times in A and E departments on a reorganisation that came into effect a month ago.

    For example: One reason that it is very hard to recruit doctors to A and E departments, so they are understaffed or run by expensive locums, is the disastrous reorganisation of medical training that took place under Patrica Hewitt. When this combined with the near similtaneous ban on visas for Doctors from India the writing was on the wall.

    There are many other factors some new and some going back decades. Remember that a dysfunctional A and E dept featured heavily in the investigation of Labours Stafford scandal.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics

    PM EU-turns on himself

    "DAVID Cameron is ready to vote against his OWN Queen’s Speech over the issue of an EU referendum.
    Downing Street figures last night revealed the PM will join Tory Euro rebels in a planned protest vote next week.


    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4921750/PM-EU-turns-on-himself.html#ixzz2SrsMVePx




    Very droll. Is that a Daily Mash satire or what?

    It certainy can't be f***ing real or Cammie just made John Major look like a political colossus in dealing with tory splits and Cammie is going to be a complete laughing stock.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    If Clegg were to kingmake the drag on the ticket Miliband he go down in history as popular as somewhere between Saville and Shipman.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tim said:

    @carlotta

    The contract from 2004 has led to a million rise suddenly last year?


    Primarily the rise is old people presenting at A&E due to stripping away of council support services.
    Everyone knew this would happen, it's the classic "saving that increases spending"

    Internally the issue is much more complex


    http://www.hsj.co.uk/news/hsj-live/hsj-live-952013-row-grows-over-ae-performance/5058409.article?blocktitle=HSJ-Live&contentID=9222


    Politicallly of course Cameron promised on his family not to reorganise, he will never be trusted again on the NHS.
    Politically,he decided to break it, he owns it.

    Tim, you have not answered my question. Has Labour planned to change any of the Lansley bill?

    You are already shifting ground to cuts in council services. Is Labour planning to reverse these? If so how is this funded?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited May 2013
    @tim - from your link:

    "They are: “Rising numbers of patients presenting to emergency departments. Reasons for this include particular pressures due to inadequate social care beds, a frail elderly population with multiple co-morbidities and challenges with out of hours services.

    Why have Scottish A&E wait times trebled? Health is devolved - so nowt to do with Cameron.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Good morning.
    I'd like to point out that the average of the three elections last night - where Ukip was standing - was a hefty 26.34%. One win and two seconds, a sign of UKIP's progress is the keeping up of momentum.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,309
    Good morning, everyone.

    First practice is in just over an hour and 20 minutes. Whilst I won't be able to watch all of it I do hope to catch a bit.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "On the broader issues, it is all very well for independence supporters to dismiss Better Together attacks as “scaremongering”. But some answers are required beyond the bland assertions that may satisfy the converted, but do nothing to convince the undecided who want to cast a vote based on something other than blind faith........

    In a way, the SNP has become a victim of its own success in that the unlikely majority achieved in 2011 made a vote, for which they are not quite ready for, inevitable. As Scotland careers towards its most important date in 300 years, there is a feeling that the Yes campaign has failed to do its homework."

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/tom-peterkin-snp-may-be-victims-of-own-success-1-2925541
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,815
    I haven't had time to look but I assume that Avery was using yesturday's industrial production numbers as a masturbatory aid ?

    They do make a nice comparison to a generation ago:

    Industial production (2009 = 100)

    March 1988 98.6
    March 2013 98.5

    Not much change there but here's something which has changed:

    Retail sales (2009 = 100)

    March 1988 56.5
    March 2013 103.0

    So how have we managed to fund that rise in consumption ?

    Government debt

    March 1988 £167.4bn (and falling)
    March 2013 £1,185.8bn (and rising)

    So over a trillion quid more on the state debt and add on another trillion quid more in houshold debt.

    And the Cameron fan club think a bit of growth will sort out our problems.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    Cast Iron comedy from the incompetent fop.
    John Pagett UKIP. ‏@saynotoeu

    http://bit.ly/10exf3s Rattled Cameron gives MPs free vote on Europe: Tory ministers could vote against their own Queen's ... #MailOnline
    It gets better.
    If this is real Cammie just took John Major's underpants of power and put them on his head.
    Matthew Greenall ‏@mngreenall

    Hang on -Cameron is saying he will vote with the motion regretting that something was not in the Queen's Speech that he wrote?
    But lest you think Cammie is a panicking idiot utterly clueless about how to tackle tory splits
    Dave Camoron ‏@EtonOldBoys

    'We can't just leave' David Cameron attacks Tory 'pessimists' who want Britain to leave EU just rejoice at that news http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/398264/We-can-t-just-leave-David-Cameron-attacks-Tory-pessimists-who-want-Britain-to-quit-EU
    If all that doesn't stop the tories banging on about Europe, then what will?

    *tears of laughter etc.*

  • Options
    wow - one insignificant YG poll, according to tim, and he and pork posting again like a pair of demented ferrets - any casual neutral observer might think they wuz rattled!
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,309
    One of the things I try to crack down on when writing is repetition of uncommon words or phrases. (Originally Journey to Altmortis had brows 'furrowing' far too often, for example). It's tedious, suggests a limited vocabulary/imagination and more varied use of language offers the opportunity for differing and interesting writing.

    I understand why politicians don't do this. Any slight divergence in language could be considered splitting from the party line (even if this isn't the case, the media seem more interested in splits and manufacturing them than anything else). In addition, the public pay very little attention. Getting a line and then hammering it home at every opportunity is one way to make it sink in (tractor stats from Brown worked, to an extent).

    But that does mean we end up with a very narrow sort of political 'debate', which is a shame.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    MikeK said:

    Good morning.
    I'd like to point out that the average of the three elections last night - where Ukip was standing - was a hefty 26.34%. One win and two seconds, a sign of UKIP's progress is the keeping up of momentum.

    This being the win.
    UKIP Bedfordshire ‏@UKIP_Bedford 8h

    Here are those details regarding town council win. @UKIP gain Cliftonville East on Thanet with 699 votes. Con 526 Lab 352 Ind 112 LD 32.
    Two tory MPs in Thanet isn't there?

  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Rage against the dying of the light...

    @pollytoynbee: RT @commentisfree: Labour must stand firm: no to a referendum on Europe | Polly Toynbee http://gu.com/p/3fm4x/tf (@pollytoynbee)
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 19,485
    edited May 2013
    I see Tim's bete noir is continuing to put the interests of his constituents first

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4921619/MP-sued-by-watchdog-for-54000-home-profit.htmi

    Edit. Sorry the link doesn't seem to work. It's the Sun's story about Stuart Jackson trying to make some dosh out of his second home.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Scott_P said:

    Rage against the dying of the light...

    @pollytoynbee: RT @commentisfree: Labour must stand firm: no to a referendum on Europe | Polly Toynbee http://gu.com/p/3fm4x/tf (@pollytoynbee)

    Polly has picked up Kellner 's referendum paradox and spells it out clearly:

    "Here's the dangerous paradox: if Labour bends under pressure and agrees to a 2017 in/out referendum, Britain will leave the EU. After losing an election, the Tories under a Europhobe leader will fight for "out" with all the might of their stampeding press: a mid-term Labour government advocating "in" would be at its weakest. The irony is that if Cameron won the next election, he might be strong enough to pull off a "yes" vote. That's why, for the sake of the country as well as for its own reputation, Labour sticks to its "no referendum" policy. Ed Miliband does not want to be the prime minister to take Britain out of Europe into the wilderness."

    Her advice for Ed is to say "If you want an EU referendum - vote Tory"

    Not sure I see Ed running with that one....
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2013
    @pollytoynbee: RT @commentisfree: Labour must stand firm: no to a referendum on Europe | Polly Toynbee http://gu.com/p/3fm4x/tf (@pollytoynbee)


    I love the way our prosecco socialist diva from Tuscany wants to deny democratic choice to the plebs
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tim said:
    So Andy Burnham is in favour of motherhood, apple pie and community services. He will have no top down organisation but will repeal the HSC bill of last year.

    Lansleys reorganisation does put both community services and commissioning of hospital services together in the CCGs and did move public health to county hall. Yet it seems to need repeal? Makes no sense at all.

    I am oft to hear Burnham speak (amongst many others) at the national commissioning meeting in London in June. It will be interesting to hear if his ideas are less vacuous by then. As a former Health Minister he should not be so clueless, though the evidence of Stafford points in the other direction.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Her advice for Ed is to say "If you want an EU referendum - vote Tory"

    Not sure I see Ed running with that one....

    And all the Labour voters who ticked UKIP last week are going to come running back for No Referendum, Ever...

  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JohnRentoul: A Spending Cut From Labour: very droll from Guido http://order-order.com/2013/05/10/at-last-a-spending-cut-from-labour/
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 40,322
    Roger said:

    I see Tim's bete noir is continuing to put the interests of his constituents first

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4921619/MP-sued-by-watchdog-for-54000-home-profit.htm

    Edit. Sorry the link doesn't seem to work. It's the Sun's story about Stuart Jackson trying to make some dosh out of his second home.

    Add an 'l' to the end of htm, i.e.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4921619/MP-sued-by-watchdog-for-54000-home-profit.html

    Jackson must believe he has fairly good grounds against IPSA. Perhaps he does, perhaps he's just an ass trying to tough it out. We don't know, and the court case should show.

    Remember, IPSA doesn't exactly have a good track record. A mistake might have been made, or it might have been a case of when valuations were made.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Polly nails it for once - drag on ticket rEd and Clegg leading an in referendum under a Lib/Lab coalition would lose.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    "Here's the dangerous paradox: if Labour bends under pressure and agrees to a 2017 in/out referendum, Britain will leave the EU"

    Poor old Polly. As clueless about what Cammie's Cast Iron pledge actually involves as the inept PBtory spinners.

    Cammie has only pledged an IN/OUT referendum after renegotiation on a treaty that just isn't going to happen. It's as conditional a cast iron pledge as Lisbon was. Cammie made it crystal clear that an IN/OUT referendum without renegotiation and a new deal was a "false choice".

    That's why he's lining up the absurd referendum on a referendum or "mandate referendum" as the fall back for when he has to bottle his pledge. He would say in 2017 that no treaty means no renegotiations and no "false choice" of IN/OUT if he won. To keep his backbenchers onside he then says he needs the mandate referendum to send a message to Europe. That way gullible tory Eurosceptics still get a referendum on the EU even if it is meaningless.

    For those who appear to have missed the obvious (as usual) the dawning realisation that they've been taken for chumps by Cammie yet again is why the tory party is currently reliving the Jonh Major years of unity over Europe.
    Daily Telegraph News ‏@TelegraphNews

    Michael Portillo says Britain should quit the EU and that Cameron's promise of a referendum is an 'insincere ploy' http://soa.li/OlB5ajl
    The irony is of course that Kipper voters will never believe Cammie anyway and are voting on more than just Europe.
  • Options
    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    That was fun! A nice twitter flame war to start the morning off really blows the cobwebs away.

    The latest YouGov shows that no one should get carried away with daily movements (although record peaks and troughs are of passing interest). It's the trend that matters and overall comparison to other surveys.

    This tells us that Labour's lead is smaller than it was last year, that Ukip have added support in the last few weeks and that both Tory and Labour shares are down because of this. Oh, and the Lib Dems are screwed.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,085
    Mick_Pork said:

    "Here's the dangerous paradox: if Labour bends under pressure and agrees to a 2017 in/out referendum, Britain will leave the EU"

    Poor old Polly. As clueless about what Cammie's Cast Iron pledge actually involves as the inept PBtory spinners.

    Cammie has only pledged an IN/OUT referendum after renegotiation on a treaty that just isn't going to happen. It's as conditional a cast iron pledge as Lisbon was. Cammie made it crystal clear that an IN/OUT referendum without renegotiation and a new deal was a "false choice".

    That's why he's lining up the absurd referendum on a referendum or "mandate referendum" as the fall back for when he has to bottle his pledge. He would say in 2017 that no treaty means no renegotiations and no "false choice" of IN/OUT if he won. To keep his backbenchers onside he then says he needs the mandate referendum to send a message to Europe. That way gullible tory Eurosceptics still get a referendum on the EU even if it is meaningless.

    For those who appear to have missed the obvious (as usual) the dawning realisation that they've been taken for chumps by Cammie yet again is why the tory party is currently reliving the Jonh Major years of unity over Europe.

    Daily Telegraph News ‏@TelegraphNews

    Michael Portillo says Britain should quit the EU and that Cameron's promise of a referendum is an 'insincere ploy' http://soa.li/OlB5ajl
    The irony is of course that Kipper voters will never believe Cammie anyway and are voting on more than just Europe.


    Mick

    do you think there should be an IN/OUT referendum on Europe?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:

    Polly nails it for once - drag on ticket rEd

    Nobody can be surprised at the finding that Ed is a major drag on the ticket.

    He couldn't even get Labour MPs and Party members to vote for him.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ed is just a drag.

    Kinnock with hair.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,309
    F1: it's raining in Spain. Not sure how long it'll last, but that might bugger up practice and make assessing the upgraded cars a bit trickier.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:

    Ed is just a drag.

    Kinnock with hair.

    That is not very flattering to Neil Kinnock
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    TOPPING said:


    Mick

    do you think there should be an IN/OUT referendum on Europe?

    I think little Ed doesn't have that much to lose by matching Cammie's IN/OUT pledge since it's essentially harmless and very easily strung out indefinitely. He keeps the focus on UKIP and tory splits if he does so but he'll never sound remotely convincing posturing on the issue. He would of course also take a hit when it transpired that no renegotiations and thus IN/OUT referendum were forthcoming but the calculation by him and Cammie is that by then UKIP will have burnt out enough to take the heat out of it. Cammie doesn't have the luxury of completely ignoring UKIP and his backbenches which is why the mandate referendum is being talked about as a back up.

    I have an actual referendum to fight thanks. It is of more consequence than tory splits.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Mick_Pork said:

    I have an actual referendum to fight thanks.

    Your side are losing. Maybe you should stop "helping"
    Mick_Pork said:

    It is of more consequence than tory splits.

    No. it really isn't. When Eck gets his bahookie handed to him by the Scottish electorate life will go on
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,085
    edited May 2013
    Mick_Pork said:

    TOPPING said:


    Mick

    do you think there should be an IN/OUT referendum on Europe?

    I think little Ed doesn't have that much to lose by matching Cammie's IN/OUT pledge since it's essentially harmless and very easily strung out indefinitely. He keeps the focus on UKIP and tory splits if he does so but he'll never sound remotely convincing posturing on the issue. He would of course also take a hit when it transpired that no renegotiations and thus IN/OUT referendum were forthcoming but the calculation by him and Cammie is that by then UKIP will have burnt out enough to take the heat out of it. Cammie doesn't have the luxury of completely ignoring UKIP and his backbenches which is why the mandate referendum is being talked about as a back up.

    I have an actual referendum to fight thanks. It is of more consequence than tory splits.
    yeah yeah I get that but personally - you - for the UK (whatever it constitutes at that time) - are you in favour of an IN/OUT referendum on the EU?
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    Scott_P said:

    Maybe you should stop "helping"

    You'd like that wouldn't you? Maybe you should stop whining? About as likely to happen as your predicted scottish tory surge.
    Mick_Pork said:

    It is of more consequence than tory splits.

    Scott_P said:

    No. it really isn't.

    Yes, it really is. It's real and it's of huge consequence.
    Tory splits are neither new or very surprising given their obvious panic over the kippers.

    Cammie can string along gullible Eurosceptic MPs with yet more empty posturing because he knows they just don't have the balls to remove him. It still won't stop them banging on about it though.

  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    More brilliant news for the SNP in the Times
    More than half of Scots think the Trident nuclear deterrent should be replaced rather than scrapped, according to a new poll which seriously undermines claims that Scotland is staunchly anti-nuclear.

    The research also confounds repeated claims by Scottish politicians, including Alex Salmond, the First Minister, that voters are overwhelmingly against basing the deterrent in Scottish waters, with 43 per cent of voters maintaining it should not be moved.

    The First Minister has said that an independent Scotland would enshrine a ban on nuclear weapons in Scotland in a written constitution but the opinion poll, published today, shows that the most popular option is for them to be kept in Scotland.
  • Options
    MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    So Tory backbenchers are (with apparent acquiescence from Conservative ministers) by-passing the Queen's Speech and introducing an EU referendum bill. 2 fingers up to Clegg? Or does Cameron have any choice in the matter?
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246
    Off topic...

    Are leaders' nicknames proportional to how much they get under the skin of their opponents? So far today we have...

    Wee Eck
    Little Ed, drag on the ticket or rED
    Call me Dave, Cammie, the Fop, Cameron@EtonOldBoys

    and

    Nick Clegg.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 40,322
    Scott_P said:

    More brilliant news for the SNP in the Times

    More than half of Scots think the Trident nuclear deterrent should be replaced rather than scrapped, according to a new poll which seriously undermines claims that Scotland is staunchly anti-nuclear.

    The research also confounds repeated claims by Scottish politicians, including Alex Salmond, the First Minister, that voters are overwhelmingly against basing the deterrent in Scottish waters, with 43 per cent of voters maintaining it should not be moved.

    The First Minister has said that an independent Scotland would enshrine a ban on nuclear weapons in Scotland in a written constitution but the opinion poll, published today, shows that the most popular option is for them to be kept in Scotland.
    That is because, despite some noisy elements, the Scottish public are mostly sensible.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    the Scottish public are mostly sensible.

    Which is why the separatists are DOOMED!
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    Jonathan said:

    and

    Nick Clegg.

    You mean calamity Clegg? Huhne got that one right at least. ;)

    Last nights informative locals article contained this about the effects of last weeks local elections.

    " the Liberal Democrats see thirty three years of local election advances wiped out (14% national projected vote share, only 1% higher than their tally in 1980)"

    It helps explain why Clegg suddenly decided to get uppity over childcare reforms because his base cannot have failed to notice that the spin about last weeks locals from Clegg (about how he was "back in the saddle") was somewhat at variance with the reality.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246
    Mick_Pork said:

    Jonathan said:

    and

    Nick Clegg.

    You mean calamity Clegg? Huhne got that one right at least. ;)

    Last nights informative locals article contained this about the effects of last weeks local elections.

    " the Liberal Democrats see thirty three years of local election advances wiped out (14% national projected vote share, only 1% higher than their tally in 1980)"

    It helps explain why Clegg suddenly decided to get uppity over childcare reforms because his base cannot have failed to notice that the spin about last weeks locals from Clegg (about how he was "back in the saddle") was somewhat at variance with the reality.
    Huhne clearly saw Clegg as a big threat, hence the nickname. But in hindsight he should probably have focussed his attention closer to home. Perhaps investing in a mirror.

  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Millsy said:

    So Tory backbenchers are (with apparent acquiescence from Conservative ministers) by-passing the Queen's Speech and introducing an EU referendum bill. 2 fingers up to Clegg? Or does Cameron have any choice in the matter?

    It is a bit bizarre, but it sounds like that with a free vote for Tories you would think there would be enough pro-EU Tories to vote with the Lib Dems and most of Labour to defeat the amendment.

    Cameron therefore gets to reassure his backbenchers that he is with them, but it's just because he is in Coalition that they can't have what they want. Thus if they want a referendum they need to redouble their efforts to win a Tory majority.

    I actually prefer having these disagreements out in the open, and tested with votes in Parliament, rather than hidden behind party discipline.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013

    That is because, despite some noisy elements, the Scottish public are mostly sensible.

    Haven't read all the details, options and wording the poll, have you? Or who commissioned it.
    Or indeed all the the other polling that contradicts it.

    *chuckles*

    Do you know what SLAB and Lamont's position on Trident is?
    When you find out ask yourself why that is?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Gordon Brown's toxic legacy continues

    @SamCoatesTimes: Co-op bank in trouble - Moody's downgrades heavily, suggests it might need taxpayer support. Its troubles stem from Britannia takeover
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    tim said:

    The Tory UKIP problem neatly outlined

    Nick Faith crunches the numbers to explore the UKIP effect in marginal seats

    Nick Faith is Director of Communications at Policy Exchange.

    Ukip: More than a marginal problem for the Tories


    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thinktankcentral/2013/05/from-nickfaith82-.html

    The conclusion, that Cameron should become a competent leader is correct,but unlikely.

    Intersting data. Worth a thread possibly.

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 40,322
    tim said:

    London Mayor Boris Johnson today defended his proposal for a new hub airport in the Thames Estuary east of London, after an influential House of Commons committee said the idea should be ditched in favour of a third runway at Heathrow.

    In a report published today, the Commons Transport Committee said that the "Boris Island" option would be hugely expensive, could harm estuary wildlife and would also mean the closure of Heathrow.

    Instead, the MPs said that an extra runway at Heathrow was necessary and also suggested that a fourth might have merit if the two new runways were located to the west of the current site. The current two-runway airport was "not adequate for the needs of the UK" and expansion of Heathrow was "long overdue", they said


    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/mayor-defends-boris-island-thames-estuary-airport-plan-8610388.html

    Boris really should stop making a fool of himself over this.
    Let Dave the Ditherer take the blame for the delay.

    He isn't making a fool of himself; he's right.

    It seems from radio interviews, that one of the problems mentioned by the MPs was the cost of getting the transport infrastructure to the site.

    I'd be interested to know if they factored in the £16 billion we are spending on Crossrail, part of whose aim is to improve transport to Heathrow. No-one blinks an eye at that.

    We can do an island airport. It solves many problems, and we have the technology and know-how. British firms largely built Hong Kong International Airport, and the new London Gateway port, just a short distance from several of the proposed island site, is reclaiming a vast area from the estuary.

    http://www.londongateway.com/

    A third or even fourth runway at Heathrow have their own problems, and will be massively costly as well. Whichever approach we take, we are talking of many, many billions.
  • Options
    ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    Jonathan said:

    Off topic...

    Are leaders' nicknames proportional to how much they get under the skin of their opponents? So far today we have...

    Wee Eck
    Little Ed, drag on the ticket or rED
    Call me Dave, Cammie, the Fop, Cameron@EtonOldBoys

    and

    Nick Clegg.

    perhaps folk just feel that Nick Clegg is an insult in its own right. Calling someone a complete and utter Clegghead has a certain ring to it :)

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    BenM said:

    The latest YouGov shows that no one should get carried away with daily movements (although record peaks and troughs are of passing interest). It's the trend that matters and overall comparison to other surveys.

    This tells us that Labour's lead is smaller than it was last year, that Ukip have added support in the last few weeks and that both Tory and Labour shares are down because of this. Oh, and the Lib Dems are screwed.

    Exactly.

    Even yesterday's YouGov of 17 was only just (0.07%) outside an MOE central position of 12 - everything else is still within MOE - though the trends you have noted do appear to be entrenching. Where we are a month from now - who knows? Let alone a year - or at the GE, in two.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Mick_Pork said:

    That is because, despite some noisy elements, the Scottish public are mostly sensible.

    Or indeed all the the other polling that contradicts it
    Which you of course posted to back up your point.......
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 40,322
    Mick_Pork said:

    That is because, despite some noisy elements, the Scottish public are mostly sensible.

    Haven't read all the details, options and wording the poll, have you? Or who commissioned it.
    Or indeed all the the other polling that contradicts it.

    *chuckles*

    Do you know what SLAB and Lamont's position on Trident is?
    When you find out ask yourself why that is?
    So you are saying that the Scottish public are not mostly sensible?

    It's a strange viewpoint for the SNP to take.

    ;-)
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013

    Huhne clearly saw Clegg as a big threat, hence the nickname.

    Here's a curious fact. Huhne actually won the leadership but for the intervention of someone who's name might ring a bell.

    "It was he who manoeuvred young Nick Clegg into the safe seat of Sheffield Hallam and, as returning officer in 2007, determined that a batch of late postal votes, that would have handed the leadership to his rival Chris Huhne, were not accepted."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/lord-rennard-a-prominent-and-powerful-rasputin-figure-who-ruled-the-lib-dem-machine-8508671.html

    Cleary they were rivals. Equally clearly Huhne was the author of his own spectacular downfall.
    That doesn't stop Huhne being right about Clegg however. The lib dems are in deep, deep trouble. Clegg having a nice ministerial car hardly abdicates him from the responsibilty for it.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,025
    Scott_P said:

    More brilliant news for the SNP in the Times

    More than half of Scots think the Trident nuclear deterrent should be replaced rather than scrapped, according to a new poll which seriously undermines claims that Scotland is staunchly anti-nuclear.

    The research also confounds repeated claims by Scottish politicians, including Alex Salmond, the First Minister, that voters are overwhelmingly against basing the deterrent in Scottish waters, with 43 per cent of voters maintaining it should not be moved.

    The First Minister has said that an independent Scotland would enshrine a ban on nuclear weapons in Scotland in a written constitution but the opinion poll, published today, shows that the most popular option is for them to be kept in Scotland.
    Same poll:

    'While a majority approves Trident’s replacement, 48 percent of respondents said they are in principle opposed to the U.K. having nuclear weapons, with 37 percent in support.'

    Scottish Tories, converting eggs into hypothetical chickens since time immemorial.

  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    tim said:

    Definitely worth a thread.
    The Tories appointment of Lynton Crosby to run a "Boost-UKIP" strategy looks stranger by the day.

    It is possible to run more than one strategy across different areas but that data does point out the futility of trying to run more than one in the same area.
  • Options
    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Scott_P said:

    The research also confounds repeated claims by Scottish politicians, including Alex Salmond, the First Minister, that voters are overwhelmingly against basing the deterrent in Scottish waters, with 43 per cent of voters maintaining it should not be moved.

    Count-down to the next mega U-turn....

    How long before Salmond is laying into the UK government for depriving Scotland of its birthright by not bringing Trident on stream faster?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 40,322
    tim said:

    @Josias.

    Boris Island will never happen,was never going to happen, and the expansion of Heathrow is inevitable.

    Maybe Boris should start telling Londoners what happens to their jobs when he closes Heathrow.

    It's more likely that Gatwick (or possibly Stansted) will close, and Heathrow takes over that role as a reduced-size airport. And in the unlikely event it does close, thousands of acres of prime brownfield land will be available for development.

    If we get a fourth runway and sixth terminal at Heathrow, how long before that too is full? 15 years? 20 years? We'll just be having the same arguments continually for the next hundred years.

    A Thames airport may not happen. But it should.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Scott_P said:

    Gordon Brown's toxic legacy continues

    @SamCoatesTimes: Co-op bank in trouble - Moody's downgrades heavily, suggests it might need taxpayer support. Its troubles stem from Britannia takeover

    I wonder if that was another more plausible reason why the Lloyds branches takeover didn't happen at the last minute...
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Theuniondivvie

    And which impartial organisation responded to the poll?
    Arthur West, chairman of Scottish CND, said: “It certainly flies in the face of polls, and also the public work, that we do, where we are picking up a clear message of opposition to Trident replacement.
    Actually the SNP go one better. On what basis do the SNP claim there is no support for nuclear weapons in Scotland?
    An SNP spokeswoman said: “We are extremely confident that a majority of people in Scotland want to get rid of Trident nuclear weapons — in line with the recent overwhelming vote in the Scottish Parliament.
    We voted for it. The people must want it.

    The SNP, making it up as they go along...
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    tim said:


    Boris Island will never happen,was never going to happen

    Any yet I distinctly remember the Boris groupies getting overexcited about it on here when that was pointed out to them.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,438
    Back from DC (where I was royally hosted by TimT) - noticed Mike's post on the last thread about his polling day picture. I think this one is even better:

    http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/

    (you may need to let the picture scroll round to it).
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @SkyNewsBreak: Radical cleric Abu Qatada says he will voluntarily return to Jordan if Jordan ratifies a treaty with UK guaranteeing he will not be tortured
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Back from DC (where I was royally hosted by TimT) - noticed Mike's post on the last thread about his polling day picture. I think this one is even better:

    http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/

    (you may need to let the picture scroll round to it).

    Shed man? It is better. He should use that for next thursday if possible.
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    tim said:

    @Josias.

    Boris Island will never happen,was never going to happen, and the expansion of Heathrow is inevitable.

    Maybe Boris should start telling Londoners what happens to their jobs when he closes Heathrow.

    They're replaced by other jobs in a booming city?

    You're one of the first people to say we need more housing in London. The closure of Heathrow would create a huge area where we could meet the capital's housing needs.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Theresa May succeeds where the endless succession of useless Labour Home Secretaries failed?

    Unlucky
  • Options
    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    tim said:

    Abu Qatada scuppers the Tory ECHR posturing.
    Unlucky.

    Abu Qatada recognises Theresa May is serious. Hardly unlucky..

  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758



    So how have we managed to fund that rise in consumption ?

    Government debt

    March 1988 £167.4bn (and falling)
    March 2013 £1,185.8bn (and rising)

    So over a trillion quid more on the state debt and add on another trillion quid more in houshold debt.

    And the Cameron fan club think a bit of growth will sort out our problems.

    To be fair, the Tories have been willing to sacrifice growth (although it is almost ok - about 1.3% p.a. - if you strip out oil & gas) to reduce the deficit. Perhaps they could have been bolder, but they have managed to bring down the deficit without plunging the economy into recession.

    It's the two Eds who want to increase growth by borrowing more. They're the guy you should be gunning for.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    tim said:

    @MickPork

    Dave should vote against the Queens Speech on the EU Referendum and then vote for and against the Gay Marriage Bill.

    All he needs do is then proclaim 'we can't just leave the EU' while labeling those who think so pessimists (step up from fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists admittedly) and we have another fop triumph on our hands.

    An EU split triumph of John Major like proportions.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Lord Ashcroft on polling on nuclear weapons in Scotland:

    "As I never tire of pointing out, it is always worth looking twice at any survey that seems to show that the public support the agenda of whoever commissioned it. Perhaps not at all surprisingly, a recent poll about nuclear weapons conducted in Scotland for CND is a case in point......

    As we know from their attempt to rig the referendum question, the SNP has form on this sort of thing. Trying to show that people think what you want them to think is not the same thing as trying to find out what they really do think. I am more interested in the latter – so last week I asked what people in Scotland really do think about Trident. Here is what I found."


    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2013/05/from-lordashcroft-embargoed-until-friday-10th-may.html
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    tim said:

    @Socrates.

    Boris Island is on the wrong side of London, full stop.

    Surely the wrong side of London is south of the city. Seems to me that Stansted is the best place to expand.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Has some fool posted that Qatada jumping before being pushed is a "disaster for Cameron" ?

  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited May 2013
    Scott_P said:

    @Theuniondivvie

    And which impartial organisation responded to the poll?

    Arthur West, chairman of Scottish CND, said: “It certainly flies in the face of polls, and also the public work, that we do, where we are picking up a clear message of opposition to Trident replacement.
    Actually the SNP go one better. On what basis do the SNP claim there is no support for nuclear weapons in Scotland?
    An SNP spokeswoman said: “We are extremely confident that a majority of people in Scotland want to get rid of Trident nuclear weapons — in line with the recent overwhelming vote in the Scottish Parliament.
    We voted for it. The people must want it.

    The SNP, making it up as they go along...

    The SNP's tragedy is in believing that it alone represents the essense of Scotland while in truth it merely represents a shower of third-rate politicians , chancers and malcontents.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Roger said:

    I see Tim's bete noir is continuing to put the interests of his constituents first

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4921619/MP-sued-by-watchdog-for-54000-home-profit.htmi

    Edit. Sorry the link doesn't seem to work. It's the Sun's story about Stuart Jackson trying to make some dosh out of his second home.

    I haven't read this story specifically, but the whole situation does seem very odd.

    AFAIK, there was a clear agreement: you could continue to receive mortgage interest payments for a transitional period and in return you agreed to give up a percentage of the increase in the value of the property for that period.

    Stuart Jackson is (a) disagreeing with the valuation of the property in 2010 [baseline] and 2012 [end of transitional period] and (b) complaining that he is having to pay more in the cap gains share that he received in interest contributions.

    (b) is tough luck: you made an investment, it didn't work out. (a) I can see why there might be a dispute, but why couldn't it have been resolved? Seems very odd it needs to go to law.

    I suspect that Mr. Jackson is a greedy little sod trying to rip off the public
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013

    Lord Ashcroft on polling on nuclear weapons in Scotland:

    As we know from their attempt to rig the referendum question, the SNP has form on this sort of thing.

    Unspoofable and strangely clueless about what SLAB and Lamont's postion on trident is since the tory spinner treats almost all scottish labour's press releases and witterings as fact.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,025
    Scott_P said:

    @Theuniondivvie

    Actually the SNP go one better. On what basis do the SNP claim there is no support for nuclear weapons in Scotland?

    An SNP spokeswoman said: “We are extremely confident that a majority of people in Scotland want to get rid of Trident nuclear weapons — in line with the recent overwhelming vote in the Scottish Parliament.

    This basis?

    'While a majority approves Trident’s replacement, 48 percent of respondents said they are in principle opposed to the U.K. having nuclear weapons, with 37 percent in support.'

    I know in Torynincompoopworld 37% represents an overwhelming (and unattainable) electoral mandate, but 48% trumps it.
  • Options
    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Charles said:


    (b) is tough luck: you made an investment, it didn't work out.

    Except that it isn't how it works. The MPs get to take any losses and IPSA gets any gains, even paper gains which are not realised.

    It's a completely absurd system. They should start again and design something sensible.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    This Co Op bank being in trouble story is growing.

    Perhaps they should call in some of their debts ??
  • Options
    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    tim said:

    I'm pleased to have Qatada helping my betting position.

    Perhaps he's on as well.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Charles said:

    I suspect that Mr. Jackson is a greedy little sod trying to rip off the public

    I suspect IPSA was essentialy toothless public relations from the start and this is yet more attempts to cosh them into complete submission.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,025
    edited May 2013


    The SNP's tragedy is in believing that it alone represents the essense of Scotland while in truth it merely represents a shower of third-rate politicians , chancers and malcontents.

    UKIP's tragedy is in believing that it alone represents the essense (sic) of Britain (sic) while in truth it merely represents a shower of third-rate politicians, chancers and malcontents.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    In the interests of balance, does our host also have a Scottish poll to report showing that the independence campaign has closed the gap a little?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    tim said:

    @Socrates.Boris Island is on the wrong side of London, full stop.

    Depends on what you mean by the "wrong"side.

    If one of your objectives is to reduce noise pollution it is on the "right side" ~ 70% of approaches into Heathrow are westerly - over the city of London. Moving the airport to East of London would have these approaches over the sea.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:


    (b) is tough luck: you made an investment, it didn't work out.

    Except that it isn't how it works. The MPs get to take any losses and IPSA gets any gains, even paper gains which are not realised.

    It's a completely absurd system. They should start again and design something sensible.
    This was a transitional arrangement for only 2 years: they didn't have to opt in. They could have chosen to stop receiving interest payments at all - this was set up for those people who whinged.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Mick_Pork said:

    Charles said:

    I suspect that Mr. Jackson is a greedy little sod trying to rip off the public

    I suspect IPSA was essentialy toothless public relations from the start and this is yet more attempts to cosh them into complete submission.
    Possibly. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to develop a simple system for expenses - give them all a credit card that is paid centrally which they need to use for expenses for a start and then you have complete visibility. Housing costs: just pay the cost of a reasonable hotel in central London ever night they need to be there. (It may make more sense for the parliamentary estate to commission a hotel company to develop & run a block for them).
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    tim said:

    @Socrates.

    Boris Island is on the wrong side of London, full stop.

    In a country the size of a postage stamp, there is no wrong side of anywhere. Just some infrastructure to build.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    This is a nice find for those who think still inexplicably think that a Cast Iron Referendum Pledge cannot be spun and postured on from the start then renaged on when convenient.
    Paul Perrin ‏@pperrin

    @Thomas_Brett @offasreturnII Cameron *CHOSE* not to have a referndum http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/3097376/Conservatives-could-hold-Lisbon-Treaty-referendum-after-ratification.html … originally having given cast-iron guarantee

    Conservatives could hold Lisbon Treaty referendum after ratification...

    A Conservative government could hold a referendum on the European Union's Lisbon Treaty even if it has already been ratified, William Hague has said.
    Bit of a blow for the Cameroon spinners that one.
    I wonder how Hague feels about Portillo and chums coming out for OUT. Bit of sympathy perhaps?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 40,322
    tim said:

    @Socrates.

    Boris Island is on the wrong side of London, full stop.

    What a carefully thought-out and insightful contribution. Shame it's rubbish.

    Currently, to get to Heathrow from the west (e.g. Bath) by rail, you need to go into the centre of London, and then come out west again, either using the uber-expensive Heathrow express or the slow and languorous tube.

    This will improve when the uber-expensive Crossrail is built, but not much.

    Heathrow Express takes 21 minutes from Paddington to LHR, at vast expense. You should be able to get from the centre of London to a new Boris island in not much more than that.
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited May 2013


    The SNP's tragedy is in believing that it alone represents the essense of Scotland while in truth it merely represents a shower of third-rate politicians , chancers and malcontents.

    UKIP's tragedy is in believing that it alone represents the essense (sic) of Britain (sic) while in truth it merely represents a shower of third-rate politicians, chancers and malcontents.

    ThEUniondivvie doesn't like UKIP because he doesn't like the UK and independence , he prefers the EU and dependency on the whims of the Germans. Just like the founders of the SNP. Plus ça change plus c'est la même chose .

  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,748
    Bad news about the co-op bank, but it shows the problems any small 'regional' proper banks might well have in the future...
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    Charles said:

    Possibly. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to develop a simple system for expenses

    MPs aren't angry at IPSA because of complexity. They are angry at the imposition it represents. They want it complex and impenetrable. The less transparent the better. There have been fairly reasonable solutions including some of the ones you highlight made before and they were scoffed at.

    I say let IDS devise some form of universal benefit system for MPs and put them on the same hugely complex IT system being proposed for that. That'll teach them. ;)

  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    while in truth it merely represents a shower of third-rate politicians, chancers and malcontents.

    Be fair.
    They don't actually have any MPs. Even Galloway managed to turn a protest vote into that. ;)
  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Plato said:

    Scott_P said:

    Gordon Brown's toxic legacy continues

    @SamCoatesTimes: Co-op bank in trouble - Moody's downgrades heavily, suggests it might need taxpayer support. Its troubles stem from Britannia takeover

    I wonder if that was another more plausible reason why the Lloyds branches takeover didn't happen at the last minute...
    Isn't the Co-op the bankers to the Labour Party? Are they worried they won't get their money back?

  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,025


    ThEUniondivvie doesn't like UKIP because he doesn't like the UK and independence , he prefers the EU and dependency on the whims of the Germans. Just like the founders of the SNP.

    You've run out of original barbs pretty early today. You're getting past it, Monica.

    Did you see the Yougov polling on Wednesday night? Amusingly on the Scottish cross breaks UKIP got 0%, so it appears I am at one with my country in my opinion of UKIP.
  • Options
    Gerry_ManderGerry_Mander Posts: 621
    perdix said:

    Plato said:

    Scott_P said:

    Gordon Brown's toxic legacy continues

    @SamCoatesTimes: Co-op bank in trouble - Moody's downgrades heavily, suggests it might need taxpayer support. Its troubles stem from Britannia takeover

    I wonder if that was another more plausible reason why the Lloyds branches takeover didn't happen at the last minute...
    Isn't the Co-op the bankers to the Labour Party? Are they worried they won't get their money back?

    Do they have any money? Perhaps the Labour party have an overdraft?
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited May 2013
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    perdix said:

    Plato said:

    Scott_P said:

    Gordon Brown's toxic legacy continues

    @SamCoatesTimes: Co-op bank in trouble - Moody's downgrades heavily, suggests it might need taxpayer support. Its troubles stem from Britannia takeover

    I wonder if that was another more plausible reason why the Lloyds branches takeover didn't happen at the last minute...
    Isn't the Co-op the bankers to the Labour Party? Are they worried they won't get their money back?

    Do they have any money? Perhaps the Labour party have an overdraft?
    Hopefully the Co-Op will be broken up into a good and bad bank and the bad bit zombied off and the good bit sold.

    Can't see Labour getting that sort of overdraft from another bank at the same terms - looks like the Union subs will be going up comrades - happy days.
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792


    ThEUniondivvie doesn't like UKIP because he doesn't like the UK and independence , he prefers the EU and dependency on the whims of the Germans. Just like the founders of the SNP.

    You've run out of original barbs pretty early today. You're getting past it, Monica.

    Did you see the Yougov polling on Wednesday night? Amusingly on the Scottish cross breaks UKIP got 0%, so it appears I am at one with my country in my opinion of UKIP.

    It'll be interesting to see how UKIP do in Donside.

This discussion has been closed.