Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The April PB polling average: UKIP soar, coalition parties

13

Comments

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited May 2014

    RodCrosby said:

    Carnyx said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Here are six cities in the UK. Which ones are the best to live in, according to their own residents? The results may surprise you.

    Belfast
    Cardiff
    Glasgow
    London
    Manchester
    Newcastle

    Spoiler: London came in last place.

    They missed out the best UK city (well certainly the best English) of course!

    Most coastline and beaches, most golf courses, most and best public parks, two international airports close by, vibrant cultural scene, world-class architecture and public art, superior road and rail networks, three national parks within an hour or so's drive, and so on and so forth...
    Liverpool?

    Aye, the Pool of Life...
    Very disappointed with you Mr Crosby - why have you not posted any more of Liverpool's architectural delights? like this one:

    https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5163/5381897419_cfedb08277.jpg
    Oh I could fill the thread with such...
    The UK's oldest arts centre and the oldest extant building in Liverpool city centre. Wren style, 1717... Bombed and rebuilt 1950.

    I have fond memories, as I sat my fiddle grades there...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Apparently Clifford would have faced a life sentence if he had committed his crimes since 2003.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited May 2014
    Carnyx said:

    antifrank said:

    Carnyx said:

    antifrank said:



    The last newspaper to be issued with a fatwa over cartoons had supposedly published offensive cartoons of Mohammed. I'm not sure that even Alex Salmond would place himself in that company, nor should you regard it as a comfortable precedent.

    It's not as if Mr Salmond is trying to close down the debate - he is just wanting a fair one. DC Thomson are well known to have a unionist editorial policy and one might be forgiven for thinking it germane to the fact that even when the cartoon overtly tried to show the jury of public opinion, which should by definition be fair and balanced court, it still couldn't resist the temptation to mess it up. Even the Eye dimly realised that there was something odd about not portraying Mr Salmond as the opposing advocate.

    I am all in favour of robust debate, and a single cartoon is, to put it, merely an anecdote rather than evidence, but it is a good example of a wider pattern of the general failure of the Scottish media (with a few exceptions) to make any serious attempt at balance by giving the anti-indy side and its main members as much of a scrutiny as they are doing to the pro-indy side (and it's no argument to say that this is inevitable as No is the status quo, because we all know things are going to change whatever happens). It's the media's loss as I now buy half the newspapers I used to.

    What is fascinating is how some of the same issues are arising over the otherwise very different UKIP and the discussions sometimes uncannily similar to what we saw months ago about Scotland. The PBer who said that indyref woudl be a dry run for Brexit had a point.
    Oh come on. As Enoch Powell said, politicians who complain about the media are like sailors complaining about the sea. Thin-skinned politicians in positions of power who seek to use that power to control inferred criticism of themselves (no matter how indirect) deserve all the abuse that they get. Throwing a tantrum because a cartoon doesn't show Alex Salmond in exactly the way that the SNP would like is not just childish, it's indicative of a fundamental intolerance of different points of view.
    Powell as right, and normally I'd have ignored it. But I did think the cartoon was fundamentally intolerant of a different point of view in itself. Withdrawing the next two or three promised exsclusives is hardly a fatwa or a tantrum - it's the everyday horsetrading.

    We saw it with Salmond's gauleiter attack on the BBC when they refused to employ him as a rugby union pundit. Then we had the call for Marr to suffer "consequences" for disagreeing with the FM. Now we have this cartoon fatwa. We're seeing what the future holds for a free press in an SNP controlled Scotland.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    Meanwhile Julian Assange is still in the embassy - just saying ;)

    If I were Assange, I would be waiting for the next London-wide riots and then try to escape while the police are otherwise occupied.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    Radio 4's More or Less program's has just done an analysis of UKIPs (and to a lesser extent Clegg's) percentages of the number of UK laws originating in Brussels. It was quite interesting, and sadly Nuttall didn't really come out if it to well, to me at least.

    It'll be up on the BBC site soon to listen to.

    More here:
    https://fullfact.org/europe/eu_make_uk_law-29587
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I see Populus say that people feel they have "more to fear from the conduct of big business than the actions of trade unions", by a margin of 49-13. Those who feel strongly agree by 21 to 4. (I'm not sure I agree with either generalisation, bu it's an interesting indication of mood.)

    http://populusltd.cmail3.com/t/ViewEmail/r/A8F49EFC5E4273212540EF23F30FEDED/2310BFDBA32787670B3A73003FEB3522

    Or that people realise that - outside of public services - the unions don't have the ability to throw their weight around.

    I would imagine if you looked at London at the moment, there would be lots of people very annoyed by the unions
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Here are six cities in the UK. Which ones are the best to live in, according to their own residents? The results may surprise you.

    Belfast
    Cardiff
    Glasgow
    London
    Manchester
    Newcastle

    Spoiler: London came in last place.

    http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2014/03/10/which-european-cities-are-the-most-satisfying-to-live-in/

    But note that even the best UK city came miles down the list. The top places went to:

    1. Aalborg, Denmark
    2. Hamburg, Germany
    3. Zurich, Switzerland

    But it's different people doing the assessment for different cities. I've worked in international companies and on firm-wide surveys the British are always more negative than most other nations. Plus London is a more transitory place, meaning there's less "city pride" identity among its residents, relative to places like Newcastle.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Socrates said:

    Here are six cities in the UK. Which ones are the best to live in, according to their own residents? The results may surprise you.

    Belfast
    Cardiff
    Glasgow
    London
    Manchester
    Newcastle

    Spoiler: London came in last place.

    http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2014/03/10/which-european-cities-are-the-most-satisfying-to-live-in/

    But note that even the best UK city came miles down the list. The top places went to:

    1. Aalborg, Denmark
    2. Hamburg, Germany
    3. Zurich, Switzerland

    But it's different people doing the assessment for different cities. I've worked in international companies and on firm-wide surveys the British are always more negative than most other nations. Plus London is a more transitory place, meaning there's less "city pride" identity among its residents, relative to places like Newcastle.
    Oh my life

    Who gave you the worm-can opener?!
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Pulpstar said:

    Wtf inspires someone these days to have nine bloody kids ?

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/472422/Cheryl-Prudham-Mother-of-nine-on-38-000-benefits-pregnant-again-with-twins

    Has she not heard of the pill !

    A welfare net that rewards such things?

    I actually have a fair amount of sympathy for a working couple on low incomes who have one child knowing they'll need taxpayer support to do it. But more than that.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2014
    Why is Birmingham missing from the list of best cities to live in? I'm bemused.

    Venice of the North.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Carnyx said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Here are six cities in the UK. Which ones are the best to live in, according to their own residents? The results may surprise you.

    Belfast
    Cardiff
    Glasgow
    London
    Manchester
    Newcastle

    Spoiler: London came in last place.

    They missed out the best UK city (well certainly the best English) of course!

    Most coastline and beaches, most golf courses, most and best public parks, two international airports close by, vibrant cultural scene, world-class architecture and public art, superior road and rail networks, three national parks within an hour or so's drive, and so on and so forth...
    Liverpool?

    Aye, the Pool of Life...
    Very disappointed with you Mr Crosby - why have you not posted any more of Liverpool's architectural delights? like this one:

    https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5163/5381897419_cfedb08277.jpg
    Oh I could fill the thread with such...
    The UK's oldest arts centre and the oldest extant building in Liverpool city centre. Wren style, 1717... Bombed and rebuilt 1950.

    I have fond memories, as I sat my fiddle grades there...
    Charming anecdote - if you ever find yourself wondering around the city this summer with a camera in your hand, take a few snaps for PBc. I'm sure I was not the only one to greatly appreciate them.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    antifrank said:

    Carnyx said:

    antifrank said:

    Carnyx said:

    antifrank said:



    The last newspaper to be issued with a fatwa over cartoons had supposedly published offensive cartoons of Mohammed. I'm not sure that even Alex Salmond would place himself in that company, nor should you regard it as a comfortable precedent.

    It's not as if Mr Salmond is trying to close down the debate - he is just wanting a fair one. DC Thomson are well known to have a unionist editorial policy and one might be forgiven for thinking it germane to the fact that even when the cartoon overtly tried to show the jury of public opinion, which should by definition be fair and balanced court, it still couldn't resist the temptation to mess it up. Even the Eye dimly realised that there was something odd about not portraying Mr Salmond as the opposing advocate.

    What is fascinating is how some of the same issues are arising over the otherwise very different UKIP and the discussions sometimes uncannily similar to what we saw months ago about Scotland. The PBer who said that indyref woudl be a dry run for Brexit had a point.
    Oh come on. As Enoch Powell said, politicians who complain about the media are like sailors complaining about the sea. Thin-skinned politicians in positions of power who seek to use that power to control inferred criticism of themselves (no matter how indirect) deserve all the abuse that they get. Throwing a tantrum because a cartoon doesn't show Alex Salmond in exactly the way that the SNP would like is not just childish, it's indicative of a fundamental intolerance of different points of view.
    Powell as right, and normally I'd have ignored it. But I did think the cartoon was fundamentally intolerant of a different point of view in itself. Withdrawing the next two or three promised exsclusives is hardly a fatwa or a tantrum - it's the everyday horsetrading.

    We'll have to disagree. The cartoon to me is anodyne to the point of being uninteresting. If the SNP thinks that is sufficient to justify a withdrawal of engagement, to me it shows a fundamental hostility to pluralism in the media.
    I suspect what really narked Salmond's Press secretary was that DC Thomson got a good old fashioned scoop - Eck and the Digger's secret meeting.

    But withdrawing co-operation from the Beano is a bit excessive....
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited May 2014
    AndyJS said:

    Apparently Clifford would have faced a life sentence if he had committed his crimes since 2003.

    Dubious. Some of the offences would have been charged as rape contrary to s. 1 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003. The maximum sentence for that offence is of course life imprisonment, but there are very strict criteria for the imposition of discretionary life sentences. It is doubtful that they were met in his case, notwithstanding the seriousness of the offending. In particular, His Honour Judge Leonard QC accepted that the defendant no longer represented a threat to women. The best place to start for the current law on non-mandatory life sentences is the recent judgments of the Court of Appeal in Saunders [2013] EWCA Crim 1027 and Burinskas [2014] EWCA Crim 334 .
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Charles said:



    I would imagine if you looked at London at the moment, there would be lots of people very annoyed by the unions

    There was a poll on that fairly recently - can't remember the details, but it distributed the blame for the dispute between unions and management more evenly than you might expect, with loads of don't knows and "both". The people I talk to don't really bother to think about who's to blame, they just treat the dispute like bad weather, as something that happens sometimes. I complained to TfL about mixing in tiresome Why We Are Right propaganda with their useful commuter updates. (No reply.)

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    isam said:

    Socrates said:

    Here are six cities in the UK. Which ones are the best to live in, according to their own residents? The results may surprise you.

    Belfast
    Cardiff
    Glasgow
    London
    Manchester
    Newcastle

    Spoiler: London came in last place.

    http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2014/03/10/which-european-cities-are-the-most-satisfying-to-live-in/

    But note that even the best UK city came miles down the list. The top places went to:

    1. Aalborg, Denmark
    2. Hamburg, Germany
    3. Zurich, Switzerland

    But it's different people doing the assessment for different cities. I've worked in international companies and on firm-wide surveys the British are always more negative than most other nations. Plus London is a more transitory place, meaning there's less "city pride" identity among its residents, relative to places like Newcastle.
    Oh my life

    Who gave you the worm-can opener?!
    I was surprised nobody discussed the political affiliation the other day of the cockney taxi driver (?) in Viz ...

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Charles said:



    I would imagine if you looked at London at the moment, there would be lots of people very annoyed by the unions

    There was a poll on that fairly recently - can't remember the details, but it distributed the blame for the dispute between unions and management more evenly than you might expect, with loads of don't knows and "both". The people I talk to don't really bother to think about who's to blame, they just treat the dispute like bad weather, as something that happens sometimes. I complained to TfL about mixing in tiresome Why We Are Right propaganda with their useful commuter updates. (No reply.)

    Everyone you listen to seems to be very unbothered by everything. Maybe you should find out what people are passionate about?
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    I like Buzzfeed,no reverence,no deference and Mike Smithson gets quoted.This is about the LibDems.
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jonstone/most-people-who-voted-lib-dem-last-time-regret-it-theyre-als
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2014
    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    Socrates said:

    Here are six cities in the UK. Which ones are the best to live in, according to their own residents? The results may surprise you.

    Belfast
    Cardiff
    Glasgow
    London
    Manchester
    Newcastle

    Spoiler: London came in last place.

    http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2014/03/10/which-european-cities-are-the-most-satisfying-to-live-in/

    But note that even the best UK city came miles down the list. The top places went to:

    1. Aalborg, Denmark
    2. Hamburg, Germany
    3. Zurich, Switzerland

    But it's different people doing the assessment for different cities. I've worked in international companies and on firm-wide surveys the British are always more negative than most other nations. Plus London is a more transitory place, meaning there's less "city pride" identity among its residents, relative to places like Newcastle.
    Oh my life

    Who gave you the worm-can opener?!
    I was surprised nobody discussed the political affiliation the other day of the cockney taxi driver (?) in Viz ...

    I thought that would be UKIP actually!

    or the BNP I guess

    EDIT* Prob BNP
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Ed miliband breezed into Tart on Gloucester Road Bristol. My wife didn't notice the great man's arrival. There is a story on Guido about Ed buying a coffee and nothing for his12 minders. Enjoy your drinks tonight.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Charles said:

    I see Populus say that people feel they have "more to fear from the conduct of big business than the actions of trade unions", by a margin of 49-13. Those who feel strongly agree by 21 to 4. (I'm not sure I agree with either generalisation, bu it's an interesting indication of mood.)

    http://populusltd.cmail3.com/t/ViewEmail/r/A8F49EFC5E4273212540EF23F30FEDED/2310BFDBA32787670B3A73003FEB3522

    Or that people realise that - outside of public services - the unions don't have the ability to throw their weight around.

    I would imagine if you looked at London at the moment, there would be lots of people very annoyed by the unions
    There are also lots of people who support the union's case and are peed off with TfL.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Carnyx said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Here are six cities in the UK. Which ones are the best to live in, according to their own residents? The results may surprise you.

    Belfast
    Cardiff
    Glasgow
    London
    Manchester
    Newcastle

    Spoiler: London came in last place.

    They missed out the best UK city (well certainly the best English) of course!

    Most coastline and beaches, most golf courses, most and best public parks, two international airports close by, vibrant cultural scene, world-class architecture and public art, superior road and rail networks, three national parks within an hour or so's drive, and so on and so forth...
    Liverpool?

    Aye, the Pool of Life...
    Very disappointed with you Mr Crosby - why have you not posted any more of Liverpool's architectural delights? like this one:

    https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5163/5381897419_cfedb08277.jpg
    Oh I could fill the thread with such...
    The UK's oldest arts centre and the oldest extant building in Liverpool city centre. Wren style, 1717... Bombed and rebuilt 1950.

    I have fond memories, as I sat my fiddle grades there...
    Charming anecdote - if you ever find yourself wondering around the city this summer with a camera in your hand, take a few snaps for PBc. I'm sure I was not the only one to greatly appreciate them.
    I'm no great photographer, alas, although I have contributed a few, and mostly text to...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_of_Liverpool
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_art_in_Liverpool
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parks_and_open_spaces_in_Liverpool
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2014
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    Off-topic, but interesting (at least to Geeks):

    Some clever boffins claim to have made jet fuel from sunlight and air (or at least CO2 and H2O):
    http://www.gizmag.com/sunlight-carbon-dioxide-jet-fuel/31872/
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    edited May 2014
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx, that truth will not diminish Carlotta's glee at a smear of Alex Salmond.

    Nor Nats humourlessness when St Eck is made fun of.....
    antifrank said:

    The last newspaper to be issued with a fatwa over cartoons had supposedly published offensive cartoons of Mohammed. I'm not sure that even Alex Salmond would place himself in that company, nor should you regard it as a comfortable precedent.

    Thou shalt make no graven image.......
    malcolmg said:

    Or the reality is that he went with his bias

    So you approve of the Fatwah against DC Thomson?

    What fatwa? All he did was to threaten the withdrawal of the usual horse trading of exclusive stories. Unless you think that the other leaders (none democratically elected as such, unlike Mr S, in terms of a majority party in their assemblies) don't do that?

    Actually, I'm not a Nat and I'm not an uncritical supporter of Mr Salmond, and Steve Bell and Martin Rowson are my favourite political cartoonists (both did certain very good cartoons on indy last year). And my beliefs are my own, though I would also remind you that "by their fruits ye shall know them". But I did think that you were uncritical in bringing such a cartoon to our attention without suitable comment.

    The relevance of all this to the thread is that the strategy of personal attack on Mr Salmond is not only puerle and undemocratic but also counterproductive because it also does down the people who think he does a better job than anyone else and so on and so forth. And who would like their concerns addressed. This is exactly what is happening with the personal attacks on Mr Farage.
    Steve Bell used to be really sharp. These days he's about as "alternative" as Adrian Edmundson
    As a matter of interest, when would you say the change happened?
    Mid 90s when he got with the New Labour project.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Carnyx said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Here are six cities in the UK. Which ones are the best to live in, according to their own residents? The results may surprise you.

    Belfast
    Cardiff
    Glasgow
    London
    Manchester
    Newcastle

    Spoiler: London came in last place.

    They missed out the best UK city (well certainly the best English) of course!

    Most coastline and beaches, most golf courses, most and best public parks, two international airports close by, vibrant cultural scene, world-class architecture and public art, superior road and rail networks, three national parks within an hour or so's drive, and so on and so forth...
    Liverpool?

    Aye, the Pool of Life...
    Very disappointed with you Mr Crosby - why have you not posted any more of Liverpool's architectural delights? like this one:

    https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5163/5381897419_cfedb08277.jpg
    Oh I could fill the thread with such...
    The UK's oldest arts centre and the oldest extant building in Liverpool city centre. Wren style, 1717... Bombed and rebuilt 1950.

    I have fond memories, as I sat my fiddle grades there...
    Charming anecdote - if you ever find yourself wondering around the city this summer with a camera in your hand, take a few snaps for PBc. I'm sure I was not the only one to greatly appreciate them.
    I'm no great photographer, alas, although I have contributed a few, and mostly text to...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_of_Liverpool
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_art_in_Liverpool
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parks_and_open_spaces_in_Liverpool
    Who wrote the Buildings of Liverpool, I ought to get a copy. Used to have a paperback Know your Liverpool. Was a locally produced guide by a WEA lecturer.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    I like Buzzfeed,no reverence,no deference and Mike Smithson gets quoted.This is about the LibDems.
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jonstone/most-people-who-voted-lib-dem-last-time-regret-it-theyre-als

    That's actually a remarkably useful and well researched piece on the Red Liberals there - the Smithson effect perhaps? ;-)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    AndyJS said:
    Oh say it isn't so
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    @RodCrosby – many thanks for the links - the Carters working horse bronze is superb.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    The only city that sings to me is Bristol. Fantastic place.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337



    Steve Bell used to be really sharp. These days he's about as "alternative" as Adrian Edmundson

    As a matter of interest, when would you say the change happened?


    Mid 90s when he got with the New Labour project.

    Thanks - that's an interesting assessment. Surprises me a bit as he doesn't come over as a fan of Mr Blair.

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Off-topic, but interesting (at least to Geeks):

    Some clever boffins claim to have made jet fuel from sunlight and air (or at least CO2 and H2O):
    http://www.gizmag.com/sunlight-carbon-dioxide-jet-fuel/31872/

    It would be interesting to know what efficiency they claim for sunlight to kerosene. The chemistry is well known to create methane with electricity (from solar or other renewables), H2O and CO2, but the main problem is the efficiencies currently achievable don't make it economic (though people are working on improving these efficiencies for use as grid storage).
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    The only city that sings to me is Bristol. Fantastic place.

    There was a piece on Radio 4 the other day about the amazing Jamaican food to be had at Glen's Kitchen, which is tucked away in a corner of the car park of the Malcolm X Centre:

    http://www.bristol-culture.com/2013/04/30/glens-kitchen/

    Maybe that wasn't what you had in mind though.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx, that truth will not diminish Carlotta's glee at a smear of Alex Salmond.

    Nor Nats humourlessness when St Eck is made fun of.....
    antifrank said:

    The last newspaper to be issued with a fatwa over cartoons had supposedly published offensive cartoons of Mohammed. I'm not sure that even Alex Salmond would place himself in that company, nor should you regard it as a comfortable precedent.

    Thou shalt make no graven image.......
    malcolmg said:

    Or the reality is that he went with his bias

    So you approve of the Fatwah against DC Thomson?

    What fatwa? All he did was to threaten the withdrawal of the usual horse trading of exclusive stories. Unless you think that the other leaders (none democratically elected as such, unlike Mr S, in terms of a majority party in their assemblies) don't do that?

    Actually, I'm not a Nat and I'm not an uncritical supporter of Mr Salmond, and Steve Bell and Martin Rowson are my favourite political cartoonists (both did certain very good cartoons on indy last year). And my beliefs are my own, though I would also remind you that "by their fruits ye shall know them". But I did think that you were uncritical in bringing such a cartoon to our attention without suitable comment.

    The relevance of all this to the thread is that the strategy of personal attack on Mr Salmond is not only puerle and undemocratic but also counterproductive because it also does down the people who think he does a better job than anyone else and so on and so forth. And who would like their concerns addressed. This is exactly what is happening with the personal attacks on Mr Farage.
    Steve Bell used to be really sharp. These days he's about as "alternative" as Adrian Edmundson
    As a matter of interest, when would you say the change happened?
    Mid 90s when he got with the New Labour project.

    Steve Bell New Labour? Naah.

  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited May 2014
    isam said:

    Oh say it isn't so

    If it keeps Sir Nigel Sweeney in work... Stuart Hall is back on trial at Preston before Turner J on Tuesday as well. We may also get a costs judgment in Huhne and Pryce.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Socrates said:

    Here are six cities in the UK. Which ones are the best to live in, according to their own residents? The results may surprise you.

    Belfast
    Cardiff
    Glasgow
    London
    Manchester
    Newcastle

    Spoiler: London came in last place.

    http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2014/03/10/which-european-cities-are-the-most-satisfying-to-live-in/

    But note that even the best UK city came miles down the list. The top places went to:

    1. Aalborg, Denmark
    2. Hamburg, Germany
    3. Zurich, Switzerland

    But it's different people doing the assessment for different cities. I've worked in international companies and on firm-wide surveys the British are always more negative than most other nations. Plus London is a more transitory place, meaning there's less "city pride" identity among its residents, relative to places like Newcastle.
    Second to Belfast.... Not bad, not bad.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    dr_spyn said:

    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Carnyx said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Here are six cities in the UK. Which ones are the best to live in, according to their own residents? The results may surprise you.

    Belfast
    Cardiff
    Glasgow
    London
    Manchester
    Newcastle

    Spoiler: London came in last place.

    They missed out the best UK city (well certainly the best English) of course!

    Most coastline and beaches, most golf courses, most and best public parks, two international airports close by, vibrant cultural scene, world-class architecture and public art, superior road and rail networks, three national parks within an hour or so's drive, and so on and so forth...
    Liverpool?

    Aye, the Pool of Life...
    Very disappointed with you Mr Crosby - why have you not posted any more of Liverpool's architectural delights? like this one:

    https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5163/5381897419_cfedb08277.jpg
    Oh I could fill the thread with such...
    The UK's oldest arts centre and the oldest extant building in Liverpool city centre. Wren style, 1717... Bombed and rebuilt 1950.

    I have fond memories, as I sat my fiddle grades there...
    Charming anecdote - if you ever find yourself wondering around the city this summer with a camera in your hand, take a few snaps for PBc. I'm sure I was not the only one to greatly appreciate them.
    I'm no great photographer, alas, although I have contributed a few, and mostly text to...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_of_Liverpool
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_art_in_Liverpool
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parks_and_open_spaces_in_Liverpool
    Who wrote the Buildings of Liverpool, I ought to get a copy. Used to have a paperback Know your Liverpool. Was a locally produced guide by a WEA lecturer.
    If you're talking about the Pevsner Architectural Guides, the Liverpool one was updated by Joseph Sharples in 2004. A beautiful book.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Liverpool-Pevsner-Architectural-Guides-City/dp/0300102585
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Tonight's Any Questions is being broadcast from Bristol.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    edited May 2014
    Carnyx said:



    Steve Bell used to be really sharp. These days he's about as "alternative" as Adrian Edmundson

    As a matter of interest, when would you say the change happened?
    Mid 90s when he got with the New Labour project.

    Thanks - that's an interesting assessment. Surprises me a bit as he doesn't come over as a fan of Mr Blair.



    Not post iraq, but he just didn't have the bile for attacking a Labour govt as he did Thatcher and Major. It wasn't just him most the alternative comedians suddenly had to take stock of how vacuuous their routines were with no Tories to attack. They had become as stale as mother-in-law jokes.

    I do laugh as Edmundson has evolved in to Jack Hargreaves and Jennifer Saunders is like a WI grandee.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    isam said:

    Charles said:



    I would imagine if you looked at London at the moment, there would be lots of people very annoyed by the unions

    There was a poll on that fairly recently - can't remember the details, but it distributed the blame for the dispute between unions and management more evenly than you might expect, with loads of don't knows and "both". The people I talk to don't really bother to think about who's to blame, they just treat the dispute like bad weather, as something that happens sometimes. I complained to TfL about mixing in tiresome Why We Are Right propaganda with their useful commuter updates. (No reply.)

    Everyone you listen to seems to be very unbothered by everything. Maybe you should find out what people are passionate about?
    Quite. It's Nick being subject to confirmation bias. He (a) remembers specific people who tell him who aren't bothered more (b) subconsciously filters those who do have concerns as not being bothered when it doesn't conform with his preset opinions.

    It's basically code for: there are people who disagree with me but they can be safely ignored because they aren't as interested in politics as I am and aren't reaching the right conclusions
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx, that truth will not diminish Carlotta's glee at a smear of Alex Salmond.

    Nor Nats humourlessness when St Eck is made fun of.....
    antifrank said:

    The last newspaper to be issued with a fatwa over cartoons had supposedly published offensive cartoons of Mohammed. I'm not sure that even Alex Salmond would place himself in that company, nor should you regard it as a comfortable precedent.

    Thou shalt make no graven image.......
    malcolmg said:

    Or the reality is that he went with his bias

    So you approve of the Fatwah against DC Thomson?

    What fatwa? All he did was to threaten the withdrawal of the usual horse trading of exclusive stories. Unless you think that the other leaders (none democratically elected as such, unlike Mr S, in terms of a majority party in their assemblies) don't do that?

    Actually, I'm not a Nat and I'm not an uncritical supporter of Mr Salmond, and Steve Bell and Martin Rowson are my favourite political cartoonists (both did certain very good cartoons on indy last year). And my beliefs are my own, though I would also remind you that "by their fruits ye shall know them". But I did think that you were uncritical in bringing such a cartoon to our attention without suitable comment.

    The relevance of all this to the thread is that the strategy of personal attack on Mr Salmond is not only puerle and undemocratic but also counterproductive because it also does down the people who think he does a better job than anyone else and so on and so forth. And who would like their concerns addressed. This is exactly what is happening with the personal attacks on Mr Farage.
    Steve Bell used to be really sharp. These days he's about as "alternative" as Adrian Edmundson
    As a matter of interest, when would you say the change happened?
    Mid 90s when he got with the New Labour project.

    Steve Bell New Labour? Naah.

    Steve Bell still as sharp ? Naaah
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Carnyx said:



    Steve Bell used to be really sharp. These days he's about as "alternative" as Adrian Edmundson

    As a matter of interest, when would you say the change happened?
    Mid 90s when he got with the New Labour project.
    Thanks - that's an interesting assessment. Surprises me a bit as he doesn't come over as a fan of Mr Blair.



    Not post iraq, but he just didn't have the bile for attacking a Labour govt as he did Thatcher and Major. It wasn't just him most the alternative comedians suddenly had to take stock of how vacuuous their routines were with no Tories to attack. They had become as stale as mother-in-law jokes.

    I do laugh as Edmundson has evolved in to Jack Hargreaves and Jennifer Saunders is like a WI grandee.

    & were parodied themselves

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSuMSu20avs
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    mark butcher ‏@markbutcher72 5m
    Just watched the Clarkson video - I've never been so offended in my entire life.. Grow up people.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx, that truth will not diminish Carlotta's glee at a smear of Alex Salmond.

    Nor Nats humourlessness when St Eck is made fun of.....
    antifrank said:

    The last newspaper to be issued with a fatwa over cartoons had supposedly published offensive cartoons of Mohammed. I'm not sure that even Alex Salmond would place himself in that company, nor should you regard it as a comfortable precedent.

    Thou shalt make no graven image.......
    malcolmg said:

    Or the reality is that he went with his bias

    So you approve of the Fatwah against DC Thomson?

    What fatwa? All he did was to threaten the withdrawal of the usual horse trading of exclusive stories. Unless you think that the other leaders (none democratically elected as such, unlike Mr S, in terms of a majority party in their assemblies) don't do that?

    Actually, I'm not a Nat and I'm not an uncritical supporter of Mr Salmond, and Steve Bell and Martin Rowson are my favourite political cartoonists (both did certain very good cartoons on indy last year). And my beliefs are my own, though I would also remind you that "by their fruits ye shall know them". But I did think that you were uncritical in bringing such a cartoon to our attention without suitable comment.

    The relevance of all this to the thread is that the strategy of personal attack on Mr Salmond is not only puerle and undemocratic but also counterproductive because it also does down the people who think he does a better job than anyone else and so on and so forth. And who would like their concerns addressed. This is exactly what is happening with the personal attacks on Mr Farage.
    Steve Bell used to be really sharp. These days he's about as "alternative" as Adrian Edmundson
    As a matter of interest, when would you say the change happened?
    Mid 90s when he got with the New Labour project.

    Steve Bell New Labour? Naah.

    Steve Bell still as sharp ? Naaah

    Never my cup of tea. Too much vitriol for absolutely everything.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Charles said:



    I would imagine if you looked at London at the moment, there would be lots of people very annoyed by the unions

    There was a poll on that fairly recently - can't remember the details, but it distributed the blame for the dispute between unions and management more evenly than you might expect, with loads of don't knows and "both". The people I talk to don't really bother to think about who's to blame, they just treat the dispute like bad weather, as something that happens sometimes. I complained to TfL about mixing in tiresome Why We Are Right propaganda with their useful commuter updates. (No reply.)

    Everyone you listen to seems to be very unbothered by everything. Maybe you should find out what people are passionate about?
    Quite. It's Nick being subject to confirmation bias. He (a) remembers specific people who tell him who aren't bothered more (b) subconsciously filters those who do have concerns as not being bothered when it doesn't conform with his preset opinions.

    It's basically code for: there are people who disagree with me but they can be safely ignored because they aren't as interested in politics as I am and aren't reaching the right conclusions
    I suppose if you listen to what people are angry about and act on it (or at least try) you get labelled some kind of "ist"

    "Populist" probably the worst of all of them!


  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    isam said:

    Charles said:



    I would imagine if you looked at London at the moment, there would be lots of people very annoyed by the unions

    There was a poll on that fairly recently - can't remember the details, but it distributed the blame for the dispute between unions and management more evenly than you might expect, with loads of don't knows and "both". The people I talk to don't really bother to think about who's to blame, they just treat the dispute like bad weather, as something that happens sometimes. I complained to TfL about mixing in tiresome Why We Are Right propaganda with their useful commuter updates. (No reply.)

    Everyone you listen to seems to be very unbothered by everything. Maybe you should find out what people are passionate about?
    Quite. It's Nick being subject to confirmation bias. He (a) remembers specific people who tell him who aren't bothered more (b) subconsciously filters those who do have concerns as not being bothered when it doesn't conform with his preset opinions.

    It's basically code for: there are people who disagree with me but they can be safely ignored because they aren't as interested in politics as I am and aren't reaching the right conclusions

    The lack of self-knowledge in that post is wonderful!

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx, that truth will not diminish Carlotta's glee at a smear of Alex Salmond.

    Nor Nats humourlessness when St Eck is made fun of.....
    antifrank said:

    The last newspaper to be issued with a fatwa over cartoons had supposedly published offensive cartoons of Mohammed. I'm not sure that even Alex Salmond would place himself in that company, nor should you regard it as a comfortable precedent.

    Thou shalt make no graven image.......
    malcolmg said:

    Or the reality is that he went with his bias

    So you approve of the Fatwah against DC Thomson?

    What fatwa? All he did was to threaten the withdrawal of the usual horse trading of exclusive stories. Unless you think that the other leaders (none democratically elected as such, unlike Mr S, in terms of a majority party in their assemblies) don't do that?

    Actually, I'm not a Nat and I'm not an uncritical supporter of Mr Salmond, and Steve Bell and Martin Rowson are my favourite political cartoonists (both did certain very good cartoons on indy last year). And my beliefs are my own, though I would also remind you that "by their fruits ye shall know them". But I did think that you were uncritical in bringing such a cartoon to our attention without suitable comment.

    The relevance of all this to the thread is that the strategy of personal attack on Mr Salmond is not only puerle and undemocratic but also counterproductive because it also does down the people who think he does a better job than anyone else and so on and so forth. And who would like their concerns addressed. This is exactly what is happening with the personal attacks on Mr Farage.
    Steve Bell used to be really sharp. These days he's about as "alternative" as Adrian Edmundson
    As a matter of interest, when would you say the change happened?
    Mid 90s when he got with the New Labour project.

    Steve Bell New Labour? Naah.

    Steve Bell still as sharp ? Naaah

    Never my cup of tea. Too much vitriol for absolutely everything.

    I really enjoyed SBs early material some of it was lol stuff and even as a rightie you could get the joke and see the point.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    An interesting evening to be gathering at DD's for a drink - much to discuss. Sadly I can't be there (I've a diamond heist to deliver....) but have a grand evening all.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx, that truth will not diminish Carlotta's glee at a smear of Alex Salmond.

    Nor Nats humourlessness when St Eck is made fun of.....
    antifrank said:

    The last newspaper to be issued with a fatwa over cartoons had supposedly published offensive cartoons of Mohammed. I'm not sure that even Alex Salmond would place himself in that company, nor should you regard it as a comfortable precedent.

    Thou shalt make no graven image.......
    malcolmg said:

    Or the reality is that he went with his bias

    So you approve of the Fatwah against DC Thomson?

    What fatwa? All he did was to threaten the withdrawal of the usual horse trading of exclusive stories. Unless you think that the other leaders (none democratically elected as such, unlike Mr S, in terms of a majority party in their assemblies) don't do that?

    Actually, I'm not a Nat and I'm not an uncritical supporter of Mr Salmond, and Steve Bell and Martin Rowson are my favourite political cartoonists (both did certain very good cartoons on indy last year). And my beliefs are my own, though I would also remind you that "by their fruits ye shall know them". But I did think that you were uncritical in bringing such a cartoon to our attention without suitable comment.

    The relevance of all this to the thread is that the strategy of personal attack on Mr Salmond is not only puerle and undemocratic but also counterproductive because it also does down the people who think he does a better job than anyone else and so on and so forth. And who would like their concerns addressed. This is exactly what is happening with the personal attacks on Mr Farage.
    Steve Bell used to be really sharp. These days he's about as "alternative" as Adrian Edmundson
    As a matter of interest, when would you say the change happened?
    Mid 90s when he got with the New Labour project.

    Steve Bell New Labour? Naah.

    Steve Bell still as sharp ? Naaah

    Never my cup of tea. Too much vitriol for absolutely everything.

    Today's cartoon is spot on about the Miliband rent reforms in my opinion, marred only by his continuing obsession of drawing Cameron as wearing a condom - I really think that Steve Bell has found Cameron far too anodyne in comparison to previous PMs to really get his teeth into him.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564

    isam said:



    Everyone you listen to seems to be very unbothered by everything. Maybe you should find out what people are passionate about?

    Quite. It's Nick being subject to confirmation bias. He (a) remembers specific people who tell him who aren't bothered more (b) subconsciously filters those who do have concerns as not being bothered when it doesn't conform with his preset opinions.

    It's basically code for: there are people who disagree with me but they can be safely ignored because they aren't as interested in politics as I am and aren't reaching the right conclusions
    I'm not sure how you arrive at a survey of people who I talk to? Anecdotal evidence is always dodgy, but speculating on what people feel who someone else has talked to reaches a new level of dodginess.

    That said, it's generally true that most people who I know, especially in London, seem difficult to get worked up - they take the rough with the smooth. I'd have said it's a fairly general British characteristic (different from, say, Greece), but perhaps that's generalising too much?

    Anyway, if you're saying the only reliable data is scientific polling, you're right.

  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    BobaFett said:

    I like Buzzfeed,no reverence,no deference and Mike Smithson gets quoted.This is about the LibDems.
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jonstone/most-people-who-voted-lib-dem-last-time-regret-it-theyre-als

    That's actually a remarkably useful and well researched piece on the Red Liberals there - the Smithson effect perhaps? ;-)
    Possibly a move to get up the most influential of the over 50s list on twitter.I think next year's rankings merit a betting market.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Do they serve food at Dirty Dicks?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited May 2014
    re. Liverpool

    Of Time and the City, and in fact everything by Terence Davies, is majestic.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx, that truth will not diminish Carlotta's glee at a smear of Alex Salmond.

    Nor Nats humourlessness when St Eck is made fun of.....
    antifrank said:

    The last newspaper to be issued with a fatwa over cartoons had supposedly published offensive cartoons of Mohammed. I'm not sure that even Alex Salmond would place himself in that company, nor should you regard it as a comfortable precedent.

    Thou shalt make no graven image.......
    malcolmg said:

    Or the reality is that he went with his bias

    So you approve of the Fatwah against DC Thomson?

    The relevance of all this to the thread is that the strategy of personal attack on Mr Salmond is not only puerle and undemocratic but also counterproductive because it also does down the people who think he does a better job than anyone else and so on and so forth. And who would like their concerns addressed. This is exactly what is happening with the personal attacks on Mr Farage.
    Steve Bell used to be really sharp. These days he's about as "alternative" as Adrian Edmundson
    As a matter of interest, when would you say the change happened?
    Mid 90s when he got with the New Labour project.

    Steve Bell New Labour? Naah.

    Steve Bell still as sharp ? Naaah

    Never my cup of tea. Too much vitriol for absolutely everything.

    Today's cartoon is spot on about the Miliband rent reforms in my opinion, marred only by his continuing obsession of drawing Cameron as wearing a condom - I really think that Steve Bell has found Cameron far too anodyne in comparison to previous PMs to really get his teeth into him.
    I've never found Bell that funny - nowhere near as good as Scarfe. Take his latest effort on Mel Smith Salmond:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2014/apr/28/alex-salmond-scottish-independence-european-union-steve-bell
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    RodCrosby said:

    dr_spyn said:

    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Carnyx said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Here are six cities in the UK. Which ones are the best to live in, according to their own residents? The results may surprise you.

    Belfast
    Cardiff
    Glasgow
    London
    Manchester
    Newcastle

    Spoiler: London came in last place.

    They missed out the best UK city (well certainly the best English) of course!

    Most coastline and beaches, most golf courses, most and best public parks, two international airports close by, vibrant cultural scene, world-class architecture and public art, superior road and rail networks, three national parks within an hour or so's drive, and so on and so forth...
    Liverpool?

    Aye, the Pool of Life...
    Very disappointed with you Mr Crosby - why have you not posted any more of Liverpool's architectural delights? like this one:

    https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5163/5381897419_cfedb08277.jpg
    Oh I could fill the thread with such...
    The UK's oldest arts centre and the oldest extant building in Liverpool city centre. Wren style, 1717... Bombed and rebuilt 1950.

    I have fond memories, as I sat my fiddle grades there...
    Charming anecdote - if you ever find yourself wondering around the city this summer with a camera in your hand, take a few snaps for PBc. I'm sure I was not the only one to greatly appreciate them.
    I'm no great photographer, alas, although I have contributed a few, and mostly text to...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_of_Liverpool
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_art_in_Liverpool
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parks_and_open_spaces_in_Liverpool
    Who wrote the Buildings of Liverpool, I ought to get a copy. Used to have a paperback Know your Liverpool. Was a locally produced guide by a WEA lecturer.
    If you're talking about the Pevsner Architectural Guides, the Liverpool one was updated by Joseph Sharples in 2004. A beautiful book.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Liverpool-Pevsner-Architectural-Guides-City/dp/0300102585
    Thanks Rod - will look out for it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693

    isam said:

    Charles said:



    I would imagine if you looked at London at the moment, there would be lots of people very annoyed by the unions

    There was a poll on that fairly recently - can't remember the details, but it distributed the blame for the dispute between unions and management more evenly than you might expect, with loads of don't knows and "both". The people I talk to don't really bother to think about who's to blame, they just treat the dispute like bad weather, as something that happens sometimes. I complained to TfL about mixing in tiresome Why We Are Right propaganda with their useful commuter updates. (No reply.)

    Everyone you listen to seems to be very unbothered by everything. Maybe you should find out what people are passionate about?
    Quite. It's Nick being subject to confirmation bias. He (a) remembers specific people who tell him who aren't bothered more (b) subconsciously filters those who do have concerns as not being bothered when it doesn't conform with his preset opinions.

    It's basically code for: there are people who disagree with me but they can be safely ignored because they aren't as interested in politics as I am and aren't reaching the right conclusions

    The lack of self-knowledge in that post is wonderful!

    Not at all. I am well aware of my propensity for confirmation bias. I just agree with Isam that we hear Nick saying the people he talks to are not very bothered a little too often about a few too many issues.

    I'm suggesting he checks himself, and his analysis, a bit more. It's becoming a theme.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    AndyJS said:

    The only city that sings to me is Bristol. Fantastic place.

    There was a piece on Radio 4 the other day about the amazing Jamaican food to be had at Glen's Kitchen, which is tucked away in a corner of the car park of the Malcolm X Centre:

    http://www.bristol-culture.com/2013/04/30/glens-kitchen/

    Maybe that wasn't what you had in mind though.
    AndyJS - I did post a long response to this (listing Bristol's greatness) but lost it in the ether! But I agree, the music , cultural and eateries in Bristol are fantastic. As is the Corrie Tap!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    AndyJS said:

    Do they serve food at Dirty Dicks?

    Indeed they do

    http://www.dirtydicks.co.uk/our-menus.php
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited May 2014
    For those seeking more info and some gorgeous photos of Liverpool and area, with recommended walks, I highly recommend the excellent...
    http://www.allertonoak.com/merseySights/merseySightsHome.html
  • Gerry Adams will be out in less than two hours unless Her Honour Judge Philpott QC grants a custody extension to the Police Service of Northern Ireland.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam said:

    AndyJS said:

    Do they serve food at Dirty Dicks?

    Indeed they do

    http://www.dirtydicks.co.uk/our-menus.php
    I shall be going along in about half an hour just to pop my head around the door. I look forward to meeting some of the clan there shortly.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949
    Not impressed by David Mellor's "rot in hell" comment re. Max Clifford. That sort of language ought to be left of the tabloids IMO.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949
    RodCrosby said:

    For those seeking more info and some gorgeous photos of Liverpool and area, with recommended walks, I highly recommend the excellent...
    http://www.allertonoak.com/merseySights/merseySightsHome.html

    I keep intending to get round to staying in the hotel situated in the old airport in Liverpool which I think you mentioned about three years ago.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    isam said:

    AndyJS said:

    Do they serve food at Dirty Dicks?

    Indeed they do

    http://www.dirtydicks.co.uk/our-menus.php
    I can't make DDs tonight. However, I hope those who do go will have a good natter and a good time.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949

    Gerry Adams will be out in less than two hours unless Her Honour Judge Philpott QC grants a custody extension to the Police Service of Northern Ireland.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me the odd thing is not why Adams has been arrested now but why he was never arrested at any time in the previous 40 years.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Enjoy your evening everyone.I dislike alcohol and London in equal measure so give my apologies for absence.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited May 2014
    Andy_JS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    For those seeking more info and some gorgeous photos of Liverpool and area, with recommended walks, I highly recommend the excellent...
    http://www.allertonoak.com/merseySights/merseySightsHome.html

    I keep intending to get round to staying in the hotel situated in the old airport in Liverpool which I think you mentioned about three years ago.
    It's a bit out of the way from the city centre (20 mins), but a remarkable edifice, described by Sharples as "still the most coherent example of the first-generation airports remaining in Europe"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowne_Plaza_Liverpool_John_Lennon_Airport_Hotel
    Straight out of Poirot...
    http://www.crowne-plaza-liverpool.co.uk/gallery/
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    The comments on Guido make me shudder. Horrible stuff from horrible people
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Heard on BBC that 100 British troops have landed in Estonia. Can't that damn Cammo just lead our soldiers away from the fire, instead of towards it?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949
    edited May 2014
    MikeK said:

    Heard on BBC that 100 British troops have landed in Estonia. Can't that damn Cammo just lead our soldiers away from the fire, instead of towards it?

    Unbelievable if true. 28th June is approaching - maybe that's it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    edited May 2014
    MikeK said:

    Heard on BBC that 100 British troops have landed in Estonia. Can't that damn Cammo just lead our soldiers away from the fire, instead of towards it?

    Estonia's in NATO.

    Maybe you do not want to protect our allies, or even give the impression of protecting them. I do.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Gerry Adams will be out in less than two hours unless Her Honour Judge Philpott QC grants a custody extension to the Police Service of Northern Ireland.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me the odd thing is not why Adams has been arrested now but why he was never arrested at any time in the previous 40 years.
    Wasn't he interned in the 1970s? Since then I imagine a lack of evidence and/or political expediency has kept him out?

    The pub grub in Dirty Dick's is pretty good.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Andy_JS said:

    MikeK said:

    Heard on BBC that 100 British troops have landed in Estonia. Can't that damn Cammo just lead our soldiers away from the fire, instead of towards it?

    Unbelievable if true. 28th June is approaching - maybe that's it.
    Believe it! But what's happening on 28th June? And do not tell me that it's a repeat of 1914.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    I wonder how many hours of footage some lefty nerd went through to find something on Clarkson. Free speech and the left, never been bedfellows.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited May 2014
    Andy_JS said:

    Gerry Adams will be out in less than two hours unless Her Honour Judge Philpott QC grants a custody extension to the Police Service of Northern Ireland.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me the odd thing is not why Adams has been arrested now but why he was never arrested at any time in the previous 40 years.
    Ah, well, its all down to Freedom of Information laws, those in the USA that is. Some PIRA people gave taped interviews about their former activities to a research group at a college in Boston, Mass. They did so in the expectation that their confessions would never be released while they were still alive, nobody told them about Freedom of Information. Ooops. Following a court case a few months ago at least some of the tapes have been released and the PSNI, probably to the embarrassment of some of its senior members, now have to do something about this new information.

    I doubt anything will ever come to court as a result, though.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    BobaFett said:

    Charles said:

    I see Populus say that people feel they have "more to fear from the conduct of big business than the actions of trade unions", by a margin of 49-13. Those who feel strongly agree by 21 to 4. (I'm not sure I agree with either generalisation, bu it's an interesting indication of mood.)

    http://populusltd.cmail3.com/t/ViewEmail/r/A8F49EFC5E4273212540EF23F30FEDED/2310BFDBA32787670B3A73003FEB3522

    Or that people realise that - outside of public services - the unions don't have the ability to throw their weight around.

    I would imagine if you looked at London at the moment, there would be lots of people very annoyed by the unions
    There are also lots of people who support the union's case and are peed off with TfL.
    Do enlighten us. What is the union's case?
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Re: Adams arrest.

    The other night I said twice that the police hadn't arrested Gerry for fun. There was plenty to discuss, there still is. My understanding, without detail, is that the critical factor here is not just something from one of the dead, but something from one of the living that may tilt the balance for a charge. The cops know they really need to be right.

    There is, however, a slight panic creeping in amongst some down at Connolly House. Downing Street is standing firm as of lunchtime today.

    Late last night I posted a mocking prediction of what would happen if Adams was kept for another day. Sadly, and all too clear an indication that this city is in my blood, the prediction that a mural of a smiling Gerry would appear in Belfast...its been painted already.....
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Andy_JS said:

    Not impressed by David Mellor's "rot in hell" comment re. Max Clifford. That sort of language ought to be left of the tabloids IMO.

    cobblers... Ghastly as Mellor is, he has real reason to be pissed off by Clifford's antics.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    John Curtice on the latest Indy Yougov:

    'Meanwhile the Better Together campaign has to consider how best to respond to the fact that its more negative messages do not appear to have the traction they might have anticipated. The latest poll confirms that the campaign’s claims about currency and Europe are widely disbelieved. As many as 45% think that an independent Scotland would be able to use the pound as a currency union while only 38% think it would not. Equally, 46% believe that Scotland would remain a member of the EU while just 34% do not.

    Revealingly in both cases No supporters appear less likely to be convinced of their own side’s argument than Yes voters are of the Scottish Government’s counter claims. That suggests the emergence of a credibility problem – and that is something the No side cannot afford to allow to take hold.'

    http://tinyurl.com/q4oldph

    Unsurprisingly not a mention of these findings by Bettertogether and the Daily 'Support for the Union soars to 58%' Mail.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Andy_JS said:

    Not impressed by David Mellor's "rot in hell" comment re. Max Clifford. That sort of language ought to be left of the tabloids IMO.


    cobblers... Ghastly as Mellor is, he has real reason to be pissed off by Clifford's antics.
    Totally agree, Mellor is horrible but the lies Clifford made up just to make the story worth more money were despicable.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Andy_JS said:

    Not impressed by David Mellor's "rot in hell" comment re. Max Clifford. That sort of language ought to be left of the tabloids IMO.

    cobblers... Ghastly as Mellor is, he has real reason to be pissed off by Clifford's antics.
    Did Clifford force him to slip De Sancha a length of pipe?

    Thought not.

    He's only got himself to blame.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Y0kel said:

    Re: Adams arrest.

    The other night I said twice that the police hadn't arrested Gerry for fun. There was plenty to discuss, there still is. My understanding, without detail, is that the critical factor here is not just something from one of the dead, but something from one of the living that may tilt the balance for a charge. The cops know they really need to be right.

    There is, however, a slight panic creeping in amongst some down at Connolly House. Downing Street is standing firm as of lunchtime today.

    Late last night I posted a mocking prediction of what would happen if Adams was kept for another day. Sadly, and all too clear an indication that this city is in my blood, the prediction that a mural of a smiling Gerry would appear in Belfast...its been painted already.....

    So what's the game plan?

    Adams was in the IRA? Actually so what?

    He is a peacemaker at least in the eyes of the people who just want to make the violence stop (and I appreciate that violence is ongoing). At some point there has to be T&R so is the plan for him to come out with the Truth? Too late surely.

    So bang him up for a murder 10, 20, 42 years ago? Is that it?

    I felt revolted when I read the details of this latest murder but surely at some point it has to stop?
  • The County Court Judge, Her Honour Judge Philpott QC, has granted the PSNI a 48 hour extension to detain and to question Adams.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Up to 38 dead in Odessa as the unelected Kiev puppet regime orders attack helicopters, tanks and artillery to assault a city in their own country unoccupied but for protesters. Who would have thought overthrowing the democratically elected government would have led to this? Except for anyone with the remotest knowledge of the region. Lines have been crossed and civil war looks inevitable, thanks to Russia Crimeans will be safe.

    Extraordinary events our government have conspired in occurring, disgrace abounding.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    The County Court Judge, Her Honour Judge Philpott QC, has granted the PSNI a 48 hour extension to detain and to question Adams.

    Mr Town, was the granting of the 48 hour extension to be expected or an unusual precedent considering the circumstances?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited May 2014
    That gets to the heart of Ed's biggest problem. It's not just that he's geeky and boring, it's that on top of that he usually comes across as fake and insincere, with his attempts at "statesmanlike" poses and clinging to stupid soundbites using the same slogans over and over again. If he was just more relaxed, was himself, and gave straightforward answers to questions then he'd get further imo.

    I feel like most voters think being boring is a forgiveable sin in itself, but it's when you combine that with the worst habits of more charismatic politicians (by being robotic and insincere) that it becomes very off-putting. Brown certainly found that out, lest we forget he was actually very popular when he was seen as merely boring, it was only when he got a reputation as dishonest (started by the "election that never was" fiasco) in addition to his "boring-ness" that he became toxic.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    TOPPING said:

    Y0kel said:

    Re: Adams arrest.

    The other night I said twice that the police hadn't arrested Gerry for fun. There was plenty to discuss, there still is. My understanding, without detail, is that the critical factor here is not just something from one of the dead, but something from one of the living that may tilt the balance for a charge. The cops know they really need to be right.

    There is, however, a slight panic creeping in amongst some down at Connolly House. Downing Street is standing firm as of lunchtime today.

    Late last night I posted a mocking prediction of what would happen if Adams was kept for another day. Sadly, and all too clear an indication that this city is in my blood, the prediction that a mural of a smiling Gerry would appear in Belfast...its been painted already.....

    So what's the game plan?

    Adams was in the IRA? Actually so what?

    He is a peacemaker at least in the eyes of the people who just want to make the violence stop (and I appreciate that violence is ongoing). At some point there has to be T&R so is the plan for him to come out with the Truth? Too late surely.

    So bang him up for a murder 10, 20, 42 years ago? Is that it?

    I felt revolted when I read the details of this latest murder but surely at some point it has to stop?

    Yes, thats about it. Its not going to be easy. For the politicos who like to define things for the purpose of amnesty. Killing a squaddie or whatever, murder but a conflict killing, terrorists killing other terrorists? Murder but a 'conflict killing'. Squaddie shoots non-combatant with live ammunition, murder but maybe a 'conflict killing'. Probably all get awayable with in the world of grey areas.

    Beating, torturing, killing a civilian mother of 10. Murder.

    Lets put it this way if I kill someone who killed friends and associates in NI, would I get an amnesty? I mean its directly related to the conflict right? I'd do 2 years if thats all I was risking getting for taking a swathe of them out. But I wouldn't. Why should they?

    Let the law take its course.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    FalseFlag said:

    Up to 38 dead in Odessa as the unelected Kiev puppet regime orders attack helicopters, tanks and artillery to assault a city in their own country unoccupied but for protesters. Who would have thought overthrowing the democratically elected government would have led to this? Except for anyone with the remotest knowledge of the region. Lines have been crossed and civil war looks inevitable, thanks to Russia Crimeans will be safe.

    Extraordinary events our government have conspired in occurring, disgrace abounding.

    Looks like civil war in the east of Ukraine.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Y0kel said:

    Off topic:
    Murals of support will be painted in Belfast of a smiling Gerry with barbed wire and shadowy figures behind him.


    http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74611000/jpg/_74611730_mural.jpg
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    FalseFlag said:

    Up to 38 dead in Odessa as the unelected Kiev puppet regime orders attack helicopters, tanks and artillery to assault a city in their own country unoccupied but for protesters. Who would have thought overthrowing the democratically elected government would have led to this? Except for anyone with the remotest knowledge of the region. Lines have been crossed and civil war looks inevitable, thanks to Russia Crimeans will be safe.

    Extraordinary events our government have conspired in occurring, disgrace abounding.

    Using the word "unelected" to describe the current Ukraine government is inaccurate: it was elected by the legislature. This makes it as elected as, say, the Brown, Callaghan, Cameron and first Major administrations. We don't elect governments in the UK: we elect the legislature.

    Using the word "puppet" is similarly inaccurate. "Regime" is simply emotive..

    Describing the city as "unoccupied but for protestors" neglects to mention that the protestors in question are armed with surface-to-air missiles. The use of SAMs implies a step change: they were not widely used in Northern Ireland nor Iraq nor Afghanistan (2002-date), but they were widely used in the Yugoslavian wars and Afghanistan (1979-1989), to great effect. SAMs are not used by amateur protestors but by (para)militaries: they are not as easy to acquire or afford as, say, Kalashnikovs.

    The armament of their accompanying "little green men" is also noteworthy. M27s have been spotted, which isn't really what you'd expect from cashstrapped amateurs.

    In short the protestors are not self-organising amateurs with ad-hoc weaponry, but are equipped and accompanied by advisors. The word "protestors" is not used to describe such people. You'll need a word like "insurgents"
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    From a post of mine back on April 26th.

    'There are rumours of a Russian no-fly over Eastern Ukraine being on the agenda. Whether this is via Russian airpower or creating a SAM screen, the air mobility of the Ukrainian forces has posed a problem for the the insurgents on the ground.'
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    Y0kel said:

    From a post of mine back on April 26th.

    'There are rumours of a Russian no-fly over Eastern Ukraine being on the agenda. Whether this is via Russian airpower or creating a SAM screen, the air mobility of the Ukrainian forces has posed a problem for the the insurgents on the ground.'

    Thank you.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    @viewcode

    What you say strikes me as informed.

    Unfortunately.

    Ah, but hopefully this won't spread. After all we moderns are wiser than previous generations. Aren't we?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Toms

    Of course we are. We had the war to end all wars after all?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    MikeK said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MikeK said:

    Heard on BBC that 100 British troops have landed in Estonia. Can't that damn Cammo just lead our soldiers away from the fire, instead of towards it?

    Unbelievable if true. 28th June is approaching - maybe that's it.
    Believe it! But what's happening on 28th June? And do not tell me that it's a repeat of 1914.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_referendum,_1992
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Y0kel said:

    TOPPING said:

    Y0kel said:

    Re: Adams arrest.

    The other night I said twice that the police hadn't arrested Gerry for fun. There was plenty to discuss, there still is. My understanding, without detail, is that the critical factor here is not just something from one of the dead, but something from one of the living that may tilt the balance for a charge. The cops know they really need to be right.

    There is, however, a slight panic creeping in amongst some down at Connolly House. Downing Street is standing firm as of lunchtime today.

    Late last night I posted a mocking prediction of what would happen if Adams was kept for another day. Sadly, and all too clear an indication that this city is in my blood, the prediction that a mural of a smiling Gerry would appear in Belfast...its been painted already.....

    So what's the game plan?

    Adams was in the IRA? Actually so what?

    He is a peacemaker at least in the eyes of the people who just want to make the violence stop (and I appreciate that violence is ongoing). At some point there has to be T&R so is the plan for him to come out with the Truth? Too late surely.

    So bang him up for a murder 10, 20, 42 years ago? Is that it?

    I felt revolted when I read the details of this latest murder but surely at some point it has to stop?

    Yes, thats about it. Its not going to be easy. For the politicos who like to define things for the purpose of amnesty. Killing a squaddie or whatever, murder but a conflict killing, terrorists killing other terrorists? Murder but a 'conflict killing'. Squaddie shoots non-combatant with live ammunition, murder but maybe a 'conflict killing'. Probably all get awayable with in the world of grey areas.

    Beating, torturing, killing a civilian mother of 10. Murder.

    Lets put it this way if I kill someone who killed friends and associates in NI, would I get an amnesty? I mean its directly related to the conflict right? I'd do 2 years if thats all I was risking getting for taking a swathe of them out. But I wouldn't. Why should they?

    Let the law take its course.
    There's quite a nuance about that, though. Of course I agree but we have a situation whereby we need to move on and to distinguish between any number of different "murders" surely makes the complexity formidable.

    The family is suffering terribly and I have absolute sympathy but to start drawing lines between any number of "atrocities" surely gets us nowhere.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    Toms said:

    Ah, but hopefully this won't spread. After all we moderns are wiser than previous generations. Aren't we?

    Naah. We just make the same mistakes faster...:-)

  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    TOPPING said:

    Y0kel said:

    TOPPING said:

    Y0kel said:

    Re: Adams arrest.

    So what's the game plan?

    Adams was in the IRA? Actually so what?

    He is a peacemaker at least in the eyes of the people who just want to make the violence stop (and I appreciate that violence is ongoing). At some point there has to be T&R so is the plan for him to come out with the Truth? Too late surely.

    So bang him up for a murder 10, 20, 42 years ago? Is that it?

    I felt revolted when I read the details of this latest murder but surely at some point it has to stop?

    Yes, thats about it. Its not going to be easy. For the politicos who like to define things for the purpose of amnesty. Killing a squaddie or whatever, murder but a conflict killing, terrorists killing other terrorists? Murder but a 'conflict killing'. Squaddie shoots non-combatant with live ammunition, murder but maybe a 'conflict killing'. Probably all get awayable with in the world of grey areas.

    Beating, torturing, killing a civilian mother of 10. Murder.

    Lets put it this way if I kill someone who killed friends and associates in NI, would I get an amnesty? I mean its directly related to the conflict right? I'd do 2 years if thats all I was risking getting for taking a swathe of them out. But I wouldn't. Why should they?

    Let the law take its course.
    There's quite a nuance about that, though. Of course I agree but we have a situation whereby we need to move on and to distinguish between any number of different "murders" surely makes the complexity formidable.

    The family is suffering terribly and I have absolute sympathy but to start drawing lines between any number of "atrocities" surely gets us nowhere.
    The prime architects of the hierarchy of victims concept are Sinn Fein and they are not prepared to let that one go in a hurry. It goes against their self righteous victim mentality.

    Ukraine: Rumour that the insurgent Mayor of Sloviansk, one of the cockpit towns of the insurgent effort and the guy who ordered the holding of the foreign observers, is dead.

    Definitely needs double confirming
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    We are on the first floor tight at the back

    Freudian slip? :-)
This discussion has been closed.