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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Time to make a call. The value bet in Newark is 3-1 that it

SystemSystem Posts: 11,703
edited May 2014 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Time to make a call. The value bet in Newark is 3-1 that it will be Labour

We now have a by-election date, June 5th, the declaration by Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, that he won’t be his party’s candidate and the launching of Newark markets by the main political bookmakers.

Read the full story here


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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    First!
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Also the reason for the by-election is unhelpful for the Tories - not much of a "sympathy vote" out there....
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2014
    If Ed can cap the increase in UKIP votes; freeze Tory votes until after the bye election; and, require postal voters to enter into a three year Labour voting contract, then Labour certainly stand a chance.

    It might lead to a fairer and more disciplined electoral market and solve the cost of voting crisis too.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2014
    Labour will come third in Newark IMO. I would bet on it if it were possible. Labour voters in particular will be less likely to trudge to the polling stations for a second time in as many weeks.

    "Given that Labour will probably mount the best ground campaign"

    Why? They have very little support outside the town of Newark itself.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Newark & Sherwood, 2004 Euro elections:

    Con: 10.803
    UKIP: 9,488
    Lab: 7,601
    LD: 4,543
    Green: 1,953
    BNP: 1,914

    http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp2004/rp04-050.pdf
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    No Betfair prices yet on Newark??

    I agree wih Mike. When I looked at those Newark prices yesterday, LAB was the stand-out value bet.

    Regarding the previous thread (Caol and Mallaig by-election), I was once the SNP candidate in Mallaig, in the dim and distant past. Terrific area that: Morar, Arisaig, Glenfinnan, the Small Isles (Rum, Eigg and Muck). What fun I had canvassing! I must have knocked most doors in the area, although to my shame I never made it to Knoydart.

    Caol (a suburb of Fort William) used to be rock-solid Labour back then, so I am amazed that they failed to put up a candidate (not enough local members left?); Mallaig, a fishing port, was good SNP territory. The smaller villages and countryside was the usual Highland mix of Lib Dem, SNP, Ind and Con.

    But that was all far too long ago to be relevant now. Things have changed quite radically now. My parents still live nearby and by all accounts it is now pretty much impossible to find anybody who will openly admit to being a Lib Dem. But an awful lot are still intending to vote for Charlie Kennedy ;) He profiles himself on the ground as if he were an IND. Other, weaker, Lib Dem candidates might like to take note. Hint, hint Danny.

    Finally, I note that Mike's withdrawal from the INDYREF market yesterday has had no effect on the prices. Still:

    Yes 4/11 (various)
    No 9/4 (various)

    UK GE watchers may like to note that money has been going on LAB in Dundee East (now 11/4) and on the SNP in Edinburgh North & Leith (now 40/1, which is still outstanding value IMHO).
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T:

    "Men fear ridicule over ordering wine

    British men enjoy drinking wine at home but avoid ordering it in a pub in case their friends make fun of them, a recent survey has claimed."


    http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2014/05/men-fear-ridicule-over-ordering-wine/
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Labour need a 15.8% swing. 3/1 looks poor value to me, even with the Tories' poor track record in by-elections.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Today's YouGov: 33/36/10/14

    The LD 2010 split is: Cons: 11; LAB: 31; LD: 33; UKIP: 16; Green: 6

    Last four Labour VI: 36,37,37,37 - a new lower trend?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited May 2014
    Quite right too! Wine in pubs is generally poor and real men drink Real Ale.

    Have fun tonight as Dirty Dicks. I am working :-(


    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "Men fear ridicule over ordering wine

    British men enjoy drinking wine at home but avoid ordering it in a pub in case their friends make fun of them, a recent survey has claimed."


    http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2014/05/men-fear-ridicule-over-ordering-wine/

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    antifrank said:

    Labour need a 15.8% swing. 3/1 looks poor value to me, even with the Tories' poor track record in by-elections.

    Especially given that the Labour candidate is still wearing nappies. I accept the Tory is not much older but he has at least started potty training.

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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    antifrank said:

    Labour need a 15.8% swing. 3/1 looks poor value to me, even with the Tories' poor track record in by-elections.

    The Tories track record isn't quite as poor recently as Mike implies. While it's true that the Blues haven't held a seat in government for 25 years, there's only been one such opportunity to do so in the last 17. Prior to Eastleigh, the Lib Dems (and predecessors) hadn't held a seat in government, excluding stand-asides, for at least three-quarters of a century.
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,548
    Labour looks a speculative punt in Newark to me; do they have any organisation across the rural parts of the constituency? Is Ed's promise to cap rents going to sweep him to victory here? I'd look for value on low turnout instead; 2 weeks after Euros and dubious reason for by-elex.

    Coalition squabble on knives caught my eye. Looks like one where it's in both parties interests to disagree publically, but adds to perception that Grayling is struggling. His savings don't seem as well thought out as some colleagues (just expect same outputs for less money, or the outcry over parcel restrictions) and he seems particularly weak at working in the constraints of coalition - there must be plenty he can offer e.g. on drugs policy reviews to get things like this through. Might Grayling be looking over his shoulder come the reshuffle?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387
    I personally think the Labour vote is more likely to get squeezed by UKIP on the basis that they are more likely to beat the tory. Labour coming through the middle is possible, I suppose but very unlikely in my view.

    A lot will depend on whether UKIP do as well as anticipated in the Euros and whether they can find a candidate half as attractive to tory voters as they did in Eastleigh.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2014
    Just checked the 15 previous GB by-elections this Parliament so far: in none of them did Labour get a swing big enough to win Newark, and their lead in the polls was larger for most of that time than it is now:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Kingdom_by-elections_(1979–present)
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Newark voters warm to Ukip message despite cold shoulder from Farage

    Ukip's leader will not stand in byelection but his party is seen as tempting alternative for many in Nottinghamshire market town"

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/30/newark-voters-warm-ukip-cold-shoulder-farage
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Comparison of the 2010 UKIP vote in Eastleigh and Newark:

    Eastleigh: 1,933 (3.6%)
    Newark: 1,954 (3.8%)
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I'd forgotten about this 2007 spat between Patrick Mercer and David Cameron. Interesting that some people in Newark are still talking about it according to the previous Guardian link:

    "The Conservative homeland security spokesman, Patrick Mercer, today stepped down after saying that being called a "black bastard" was part-and-parcel of life in the armed forces.
    The party leader, David Cameron, said the remarks by the MP for Newark and Retford were "totally unacceptable".

    Mr Mercer becomes the first frontbench resignation of Mr Cameron's 15-month reign as leader. In an interview with Times Online he said it was "the way it is" a black soldier would be called a "black bastard", and that some "idle and useless" ethnic minority soldiers "used racism as cover for their misdemeanours"."


    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/mar/08/conservatives.military
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,458
    AndyJS said:

    I'd forgotten about this 2007 spat between Patrick Mercer and David Cameron. Interesting that some people in Newark are still talking about it according to the previous Guardian link:

    "The Conservative homeland security spokesman, Patrick Mercer, today stepped down after saying that being called a "black bastard" was part-and-parcel of life in the armed forces.
    The party leader, David Cameron, said the remarks by the MP for Newark and Retford were "totally unacceptable".

    Mr Mercer becomes the first frontbench resignation of Mr Cameron's 15-month reign as leader. In an interview with Times Online he said it was "the way it is" a black soldier would be called a "black bastard", and that some "idle and useless" ethnic minority soldiers "used racism as cover for their misdemeanours"."


    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/mar/08/conservatives.military

    Mercer is not a nice person and also is clearly not particularly bright either.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    OT

    Scotland would likely hold a lower credit rating than the rest of the UK immediately after independence, according to the ratings agency Moody's.

    The agency predicted an independent Scotland would hold an investment-grade A rating - below the UK's current Aa1.

    But it said Scotland could achieve a higher credit rating over time.

    Independence would be unlikely to affect the credit rating of the remainder of the UK, it said.

    The Moody's report said an independent Scotland's credit profile would "almost certainly be consistent with an investment grade rating".

    It added: "While there are significant uncertainties associated with Scottish arrangements post-independence, an 'A' rating is perhaps the most likely at the outset, but with risks tilted to the downside.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27247870
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    steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    Labour very unlikely to win Newark IMO. They are more likely to finish 3rd and if so it will kick start a fresh round of comment about whether ED is up to it. This by-election is as likely to be difficult for Ed as Dave,
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,128
    AndyJS said:

    Labour will come third in Newark IMO. I would bet on it if it were possible. Labour voters in particular will be less likely to trudge to the polling stations for a second time in as many weeks.

    "Given that Labour will probably mount the best ground campaign"

    Why? They have very little support outside the town of Newark itself.

    antifrank said:

    Labour need a 15.8% swing. 3/1 looks poor value to me, even with the Tories' poor track record in by-elections.

    Agree and agree.

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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    The only relevant previous by election is the CON defence of Corby where there was a 12.7% CON to LAB swing. That took place before the big surge in Ukip support. Also there were far fewer 2010 LDs to squeeze.

    The ANTI-CON vote will coalesce behind LAB and the LDs will lose their deposit.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,233
    AndyJS said:

    Labour will come third in Newark IMO. I would bet on it if it were possible. Labour voters in particular will be less likely to trudge to the polling stations for a second time in as many weeks.

    "Given that Labour will probably mount the best ground campaign"

    Why? They have very little support outside the town of Newark itself.

    If there's a scent of blood in the air, the Labour vote will turn out. If there isn't then maybe not. The interesting thing will be how many think it might be funny to give Cameron a kicking through a vote for the Kippers.

    The unfortunate person here is Jenrick, who has gone from the prospect of a nice easy election campaign in a safe seat to a 3-way catfight.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,128
    AveryLP said:


    Good morning Avery.

    I hope you noticed my comment on the previous thread outlining the Osborne manufacturing recessions.

    Although I fear it will bring further accusations about my statistical rigour from Charles I do think it explains why the Field Marshal and myself are less enamored with Osborne than estate agents and retailers of imported tat are.

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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    AndyJS said:

    Labour will come third in Newark IMO. I would bet on it if it were possible. Labour voters in particular will be less likely to trudge to the polling stations for a second time in as many weeks.

    "Given that Labour will probably mount the best ground campaign"

    Why? They have very little support outside the town of Newark itself.

    If there's a scent of blood in the air, the Labour vote will turn out. If there isn't then maybe not. The interesting thing will be how many think it might be funny to give Cameron a kicking through a vote for the Kippers.

    The unfortunate person here is Jenrick, who has gone from the prospect of a nice easy election campaign in a safe seat to a 3-way catfight.
    Hardly. He was selected in circumstances where a by-election was likely.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,624
    This is seat is a no bet for me. The odds look poor all round.

    For what it's worth I suspect a narrow Tory hold. Labour won't come close. The seat is just the sort where Ed Miliband's Labour repels.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The sad story of former Newark MP Fiona Jones:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/06/gender.politics
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    The only relevant previous by election is the CON defence of Corby where there was a 12.7% CON to LAB swing. That took place before the big surge in Ukip support. Also there were far fewer 2010 LDs to squeeze.

    The ANTI-CON vote will coalesce behind LAB and the LDs will lose their deposit.

    Corby is geographically south of Newark but politically far to the north. And Labour was then routinely tallying 10 point leads with YouGov.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2014
    The average Labour lead in the polls was 2 to 3 times larger at the time of the Corby by-election compared to now, when Labour got a 12.7% swing.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#2012

    Also, Corby is a former steel town full of Scottish immigrants. Newark is a very traditional English market-town.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,458

    The only relevant previous by election is the CON defence of Corby where there was a 12.7% CON to LAB swing. That took place before the big surge in Ukip support. Also there were far fewer 2010 LDs to squeeze.

    The ANTI-CON vote will coalesce behind LAB and the LDs will lose their deposit.

    Not sure Corby is really all that relevant as it was an obvious marginal. Newark has been substantially Conservative since 1983. Labour gained the seat in exceptional circumstances of 1997. Obviously by-elections tend to be swingier than general elections and so nothing can be taken for granted but I anticipate a narrow Tory hold and a toss-up for second between Labour and UKIP.
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Today's crossover watch

    AveryLP, 25 December. Status - failed.
    Stark Dawning, 1 May. Status - failed.
    Fitalass, 5 May. Status - pending.
    Rod Crosby, 31 May. Status - pending.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967
    We can assume that the Conservatives and UKIP will poll 60%+ between them. That vote would have to be pretty evenly divided for Labour to win.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T:

    10 years since bells on bikes were made compulsory once again, which they were before 1983:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3667513.stm
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited May 2014
    "The ANTI-CON vote will coalesce behind LAB and the LDs will lose their deposit."

    Is there a market on 'lost deposits' ?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    edited May 2014
    I've taken 8-11 on the Conservatives here.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sean_F said:

    We can assume that the Conservatives and UKIP will poll 60%+ between them. That vote would have to be pretty evenly divided for Labour to win.

    That's a very neat way of looking at it.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    AndyJS said:

    The sad story of former Newark MP Fiona Jones:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/06/gender.politics

    What that doesn't mention is that Jones only won the Labour nomination because she misrepresented her policy position as the selection. The candidate who finished second behind her was Nick Palmer.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    If CON loses Newark then surely Cameron is in jeopardy.

    But they held on in all the seats (Save 1 independent) in the last set of locals.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,458
    Sean_F said:

    We can assume that the Conservatives and UKIP will poll 60%+ between them. That vote would have to be pretty evenly divided for Labour to win.

    Plus by-elections often attract far more candidates all taking a few percent which would make the task harder. The fewest candidates was 7 at the most recent Wythenshawe by-election but from memory Eastleigh attracted 14.

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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    AveryLP said:


    Good morning Avery.

    I hope you noticed my comment on the previous thread outlining the Osborne manufacturing recessions.

    Although I fear it will bring further accusations about my statistical rigour from Charles I do think it explains why the Field Marshal and myself are less enamored with Osborne than estate agents and retailers of imported tat are.

    In a grim way your post amused me. Osborne just has the usual quick fix approach of his predecessors and hopes that shuffling number round a balance sheet will substitute for actually doing some hard graft.

    As an aside what branch of manufacturing do you work in ?
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,458
    BobaFett said:
    They really haven't.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,367
    Labour has a fairly active membership in the rural areas though Newark branch is the largest by a good margin. A factor that Mike doesn't mention is the proximity to the Nottingham Labour fortress - they have dozens of members who go canvassing anywhere (the 'Tiger Squad') and they're already hard at work. That was IMO one reason why Labour did well in the Wythenshawe near Manchester a few months back - having a lot of nearby active members helps. That said, I think winning is a stretch.

    I knew Fiona Jones pretty well but had no idea about the alcoholism. She was bubbly and courageous to the point of carefree recklessness - I always liked the story of her going to a meeting of farmers demanding more subsidies and saying "If I didn't vote to increase subsidies for single mothers I'm certainly not going to vote to increase subsidies for you'). The story linked below is a bit misleading as Gill Dawn had no chance of winning - it was a two-horse race with me. But FJ became obsessed with what she saw as police victimisation in the disqualification saga (it hinged on whether advance phone canvassing counts as election expenses) and when she lost she struggled to find another job, since as a journalist she was seen as damaged by the endless law case. It was a really sad business.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Financier said:

    OT

    Scotland would likely hold a lower credit rating than the rest of the UK immediately after independence, according to the ratings agency Moody's.

    The Scotsman has a vivid way of putting it:

    Scotland’s credit ‘will be on par with Botswana’

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scotland-s-credit-will-be-on-par-with-botswana-1-3396159
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    MaxUMaxU Posts: 87
    Sean_F said:

    We can assume that the Conservatives and UKIP will poll 60%+ between them. That vote would have to be pretty evenly divided for Labour to win.

    That's interesting because it assumes the total right wing might actually have gone up (from 55ish% to 60+5. Not surprising I suppose and borne out by the opinion polls (which also show the total going up). It is just such a shame that the antagonism between the two parties and the two party leaders) on the right is now at such a pitch that it is now hard to see them ever cooperating, let alone at the next election.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,713
    "Scotsman uses negative stereotype of Africa to make cheap political point"

    Institutional racism in the press?
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    Mein Führer...Steiner
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Having heard the mumbled word in Eeny meeny miney mo on 5live this AM I think he will be fine, particularly in view of his apology. Topgear is the BBCs top selling show. They are not going to get rid of the star, even if he is a git.
    ToryJim said:

    BobaFett said:
    They really haven't.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Arguably the Botswana economy is the worlds most successful in terms of economic growth since independence in 1965, both in terms of rate and consistency. Salmond should dream of such a strong economy!

    "Scotsman uses negative stereotype of Africa to make cheap political point"

    Institutional racism in the press?

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    BobaFett said:
    Assuming his account is accurate, I have some sympathy in that I can see how it could have occurred accidentally (typical well known rhyme, thinking "I mustn't say N, I mustn't say N... oops, damn I said N")

    As an aside, I thought Clarkson owned Top Gear - so I doubt the Beeb will sack him.


    Ordinarily I don't respond to newspaper allegations but on this occasion I feel I must make an exception. A couple of years ago I recorded an item for Top Gear in which I quote the rhyme "eeny, meeny, miny, moe". Of course, I was well aware that in the best-known version of this rhyme there is a racist expression that I was extremely keen to avoid. The full rushes show that I did three takes. In two, I mumbled where the offensive word would normally occur and in the third I replaced it altogether with the word teacher. Now when I viewed this footage several weeks later I realised that in one of the mumbled versions if you listen very carefully with the sound turned right up it did appear that I'd actually used the word I was trying to obscure. I was mortified by this, horrified. It is a word I loathe and I did everything in my power to make sure that that version did not appear in the programme that was transmitted.

    "I have here the note that was sent at the time to the production office and it says: 'I didn't use the N-word here but I've just listened through my headphones and it sounds like I did. Is there another take that we could use?'

    "Please be assured I did everything in my power to not use that word, as I'm sitting here begging your forgiveness for the fact my efforts obviously weren't quite good enough, thank you."
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Charles said:

    BobaFett said:
    Assuming his account is accurate, I have some sympathy in that I can see how it could have occurred accidentally (typical well known rhyme, thinking "I mustn't say N, I mustn't say N... oops, damn I said N")
    As it appears clear he was trying Not to use the N word, I suspect the Outrage bus will find another target and move on.....

    I remember in the 1980s the surprise in a UK business meeting at the offence taken by an American at the "in a wood pile" expression....

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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    How about suing the BBC for all the times it screened the Dambusters..it has allowed Guy Gibson to call his dog by the offensive word a hundred times or more.. Call in the lawyers....
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067
    Financier said:

    OT

    Scotland would likely hold a lower credit rating than the rest of the UK immediately after independence, according to the ratings agency Moody's.

    The agency predicted an independent Scotland would hold an investment-grade A rating - below the UK's current Aa1.

    But it said Scotland could achieve a higher credit rating over time.

    Independence would be unlikely to affect the credit rating of the remainder of the UK, it said.

    The Moody's report said an independent Scotland's credit profile would "almost certainly be consistent with an investment grade rating".

    It added: "While there are significant uncertainties associated with Scottish arrangements post-independence, an 'A' rating is perhaps the most likely at the outset, but with risks tilted to the downside.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27247870

    Yawn, it will have similar rating to japan and China , big deal.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067

    "Scotsman uses negative stereotype of Africa to make cheap political point"

    Institutional racism in the press?

    Yes and the tories love it as we see from above , their glee is unbounded. Wonder why they chose that particular one if not just racism. Shameful and the sooner the Scotsman folds the better.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Good morning, everyone.

    Betfair's gone a sort of yellow-orange vomit hue. I dislike it.
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Charles said:

    BobaFett said:
    Assuming his account is accurate, I have some sympathy in that I can see how it could have occurred accidentally (typical well known rhyme, thinking "I mustn't say N, I mustn't say N... oops, damn I said N")

    As an aside, I thought Clarkson owned Top Gear - so I doubt the Beeb will sack him.


    Ordinarily I don't respond to newspaper allegations but on this occasion I feel I must make an exception. A couple of years ago I recorded an item for Top Gear in which I quote the rhyme "eeny, meeny, miny, moe". Of course, I was well aware that in the best-known version of this rhyme there is a racist expression that I was extremely keen to avoid. The full rushes show that I did three takes. In two, I mumbled where the offensive word would normally occur and in the third I replaced it altogether with the word teacher. Now when I viewed this footage several weeks later I realised that in one of the mumbled versions if you listen very carefully with the sound turned right up it did appear that I'd actually used the word I was trying to obscure. I was mortified by this, horrified. It is a word I loathe and I did everything in my power to make sure that that version did not appear in the programme that was transmitted.

    "I have here the note that was sent at the time to the production office and it says: 'I didn't use the N-word here but I've just listened through my headphones and it sounds like I did. Is there another take that we could use?'

    "Please be assured I did everything in my power to not use that word, as I'm sitting here begging your forgiveness for the fact my efforts obviously weren't quite good enough, thank you."
    I have a degree of sympathy for him - he was clearly not meaning to use the word, and he's no racist.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    More disgusting IMO was the "slope" comment in particular by Richard Hammond who appeared to be sucking up to Clarkson in the way he might to the cool guy at school which in many ways is worse than Clarkson's original comment.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    malcolmg said:

    "Scotsman uses negative stereotype of Africa to make cheap political point"

    Institutional racism in the press?

    the sooner the Scotsman folds the better.
    Nationalist calling for Scots to lose their jobs shocker!

    Do you prefer the horse's mouth?

    An assessment of an independent Scotland on those issuers registered in Scotland covers three broad factors: (1) the impact of redenomination on outstanding debts in a new currency, given Moody's expectation that the UK authorities would likely persist in their refusal to tolerate a currency union with an independent Scotland; (2) the constraints on borrower creditworthiness coming from an independent Scotland's credit profile; and (3) any impact the economic and financial environment in an independent Scotland might have on borrower on creditworthiness.

    https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-Scottish-independence-unlikely-to-have-rating-implications-for-UK--PR_298421
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    TOPPING said:

    More disgusting IMO was the "slope" comment in particular by Richard Hammond who appeared to be sucking up to Clarkson in the way he might to the cool guy at school which in many ways is worse than Clarkson's original comment.

    Didn't hear that comment but regardless Hammond comes across as an obsequious brown-nose, whether that's merely his TV portrayal (the show is a vehicle for JC) or his true self I don't know.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Mr. Topping, I heard about the slope comment, but I've never before heard the term used as a derogatory one (or anything to do with a particular race).
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    Mr. Topping, I heard about the slope comment, but I've never before heard the term used as a derogatory one (or anything to do with a particular race).

    Not me. Apparently it's a racial epithet in Australia.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    Mr. Topping, I heard about the slope comment, but I've never before heard the term used as a derogatory one (or anything to do with a particular race).

    Quite common derogatory slang no idea etymology.
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Morris. Forgive the typo

    Not me = nor me.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    BobaFett said:
    Silly Jezza. Getting caught out trying to be a clever dick. Angling for the "Oh Jeremy, you're so naughty doing that" reaction from his acolytes. And then he messed it up. Not racist, just a tedious twat.

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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    that bigoted woman...
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970

    AndyJS said:

    Labour will come third in Newark IMO. I would bet on it if it were possible. Labour voters in particular will be less likely to trudge to the polling stations for a second time in as many weeks.

    "Given that Labour will probably mount the best ground campaign"

    Why? They have very little support outside the town of Newark itself.

    If there's a scent of blood in the air, the Labour vote will turn out. If there isn't then maybe not. The interesting thing will be how many think it might be funny to give Cameron a kicking through a vote for the Kippers.

    The unfortunate person here is Jenrick, who has gone from the prospect of a nice easy election campaign in a safe seat to a 3-way catfight.

    If he gets through it, though (and he should really), he's there for life. A majority of 1 will do.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Really, Mr. Topping? Maybe it hasn't reached the pure and unsullied land of Yorkshire.

    Mr. Fett, that reminds me of the Americans kicking up a fuss about some KFC ads. West Indies were playing in Australia, and KFC (I think) ran some ads where an obnoxiously chirpy Aussie got on-side with West Indies fans by sharing his KFC lunch with them.

    Apparently there's a negative racial view in America of African-Americans eating KFC chicken (no idea why). So, some over there kicked up a fuss about an advert not shown, so far as I know, on US TV and which didn't involve any Americans. The ads got pulled.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Mr. Observer, if being tedious were a criminal offence Ed Balls would've been in prison all his life.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    I think the UKIP price is now correct at 9-2; 2-1 was ludicrously short, though sadly noone took up my lay offer of 11-4 here :(
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,367

    AndyJS said:

    The sad story of former Newark MP Fiona Jones:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/06/gender.politics

    What that doesn't mention is that Jones only won the Labour nomination because she misrepresented her policy position as the selection. The candidate who finished second behind her was Nick Palmer.
    Not sure what David is referring to here - I didn't have any complaints about her statement of policies or any other aspect of her campaign. I won all the branches except Newark town, maybe because my polite manners possibly made me the candidate more likely to attract old-fashioned rural voters, but Newark was overwhelmingly pro-Fiona on the very accurate basis that she was at least more local than I was (I'd never seen a mushy pea in my life). She was also, I heard, the more charismatic speaker on the night. Fair enough result, I thought. The hostile stuff came from briefings by the hopelessly third-placed candidate.

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    BobaFett said:

    Mr. Topping, I heard about the slope comment, but I've never before heard the term used as a derogatory one (or anything to do with a particular race).

    Not me. Apparently it's a racial epithet in Australia.

    And the US.

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970

    Mr. Observer, if being tedious were a criminal offence Ed Balls would've been in prison all his life.

    The prisons would certainly be a lot fuller than they are now. I can think of a few PBers who would be doing life!

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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,910
    edited May 2014

    malcolmg said:

    "Scotsman uses negative stereotype of Africa to make cheap political point"

    Institutional racism in the press?

    the sooner the Scotsman folds the better.
    Nationalist calling for Scots to lose their jobs shocker!

    Do you prefer the horse's mouth?

    An assessment of an independent Scotland on those issuers registered in Scotland covers three broad factors: (1) the impact of redenomination on outstanding debts in a new currency, given Moody's expectation that the UK authorities would likely persist in their refusal to tolerate a currency union with an independent Scotland; (2) the constraints on borrower creditworthiness coming from an independent Scotland's credit profile; and (3) any impact the economic and financial environment in an independent Scotland might have on borrower on creditworthiness.

    https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-Scottish-independence-unlikely-to-have-rating-implications-for-UK--PR_298421
    Malcolm, I am sure, and I would happily pay for a decent newspaper which actually gave balanced coverage - thus creating jobs.

    Re the Scotsman, you'll no doubt remember, now that I remind you, that most of the jobs have already gone [edited] with circulation falls and staff cuts.

    All newspapers have been going downhill but the Scotsman has been losing far more than most much of the time when compared with e.g. the Herald or the Graun. One factor must be the extraordinarily unbalanced politics coverage (though photoshopping swastikas onto photo of chaps with saltire flags in the Sunday edition was a low point).


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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067
    edited May 2014

    malcolmg said:

    "Scotsman uses negative stereotype of Africa to make cheap political point"

    Institutional racism in the press?

    the sooner the Scotsman folds the better.
    Nationalist calling for Scots to lose their jobs shocker!

    Do you prefer the horse's mouth?

    An assessment of an independent Scotland on those issuers registered in Scotland covers three broad factors: (1) the impact of redenomination on outstanding debts in a new currency, given Moody's expectation that the UK authorities would likely persist in their refusal to tolerate a currency union with an independent Scotland; (2) the constraints on borrower creditworthiness coming from an independent Scotland's credit profile; and (3) any impact the economic and financial environment in an independent Scotland might have on borrower on creditworthiness.

    https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-Scottish-independence-unlikely-to-have-rating-implications-for-UK--PR_298421
    I have read the original , it is just the usual guff that no normal human being gives a toss about. If you asked 1000 people on the street about Moody's opinion it would be universal opinion that it is just self interested bollocks and of no interest.
    I see you avoid the fact that the Scotsman tries to make it something it is not by trying to be smart and mocking an African country by trying to imply Botswana is a joke.As Charles points out it shows they have no journalists , some ignoramus just thought "let's compare them to Africa " that will make it look bad. This is the reason they are almost readerless and will be gone in the near future, they do not have a clue.

    PS, given their output and ownership , I doubt many Scottish people will lose jobs when they fold. They are just an empty shell in Edinburgh nowadays.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Diplomacy - still 3 places up for grabs in PB 2014 Mk3, passwords is catsandkittens, I think [Mr. Llama set it up].
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    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    Newark odds look about right to me , think the tories will hold on especially as I am going to volunteer my services to the cause, bravely crossing over the border from Rushcliffe to help!
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583
    @PopulusPolls: New Populus VI: Lab 35 (=); Cons 34 (+2); LD 9 (-1); UKIP 14 (-1); Oth 8 (=) Tables http://t.co/AfO93RcT2I
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited May 2014
    @Charles - As an aside, I thought Clarkson owned Top Gear - so I doubt the Beeb will sack him.

    The production company ‘Bedder 6’ the makers of ‘Top-Gear’ was set up by Clarkson, in conjunction with TG producer Andy Wilman, Last year however, BBC Worldwide bought out their 50% controlling stake in the company – Clarkson made a reported £8.4m on the deal.

    [edit] irrespective of that, Clarkson is going no where.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001

    Diplomacy - still 3 places up for grabs in PB 2014 Mk3, passwords is catsandkittens, I think [Mr. Llama set it up].

    Hopefully I will fare better in this one !

    And not get Italy ;)
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    MaxU said:

    Sean_F said:

    We can assume that the Conservatives and UKIP will poll 60%+ between them. That vote would have to be pretty evenly divided for Labour to win.

    That's interesting because it assumes the total right wing might actually have gone up (from 55ish% to 60+5. Not surprising I suppose and borne out by the opinion polls (which also show the total going up). It is just such a shame that the antagonism between the two parties and the two party leaders) on the right is now at such a pitch that it is now hard to see them ever cooperating, let alone at the next election.
    It is as big a mistake to add the UKIP and Tory vote and assume an interchangeable right-of-centre bock as it is to add the Labour and Lib Dem share and assume a monolithic centre-left, anti-Tory block. There is a reason the voters have already chosen to split between the two pairs, particularly so in the case of the smaller ones.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    I'm now backing all 3 major parties in forthcoming elections.

    UKIP in the Euros,
    Labour in the London Region Euros
    Conservatives in Newark By-Election.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited May 2014

    BobaFett said:
    Silly Jezza. Getting caught out trying to be a clever dick. Angling for the "Oh Jeremy, you're so naughty doing that" reaction from his acolytes. And then he messed it up. Not racist, just a tedious twat.

    Can't stand Clarkson or Top Gear myself, but I watched the video yesterday about 10 times, knowing what I was listening out for, and still didn't really hear it.

    Surely there has to be some distinction between saying a racist word and intending to be hurtful by way of racism? This kind of thing being front page news is an insult to genuine victims of racial hatred, prejudice and abuse

    I don't know whether Clarkson is racist or not, but even if he had said the "N" word whilst saying the rhyme, given the situation it wouldn't have meant he meant any racial offence in my book.

    Either way, it was a typically unfunny Top Gear scene
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    AndyJS said:

    The sad story of former Newark MP Fiona Jones:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/06/gender.politics

    What that doesn't mention is that Jones only won the Labour nomination because she misrepresented her policy position as the selection. The candidate who finished second behind her was Nick Palmer.
    Not sure what David is referring to here - I didn't have any complaints about her statement of policies or any other aspect of her campaign. I won all the branches except Newark town, maybe because my polite manners possibly made me the candidate more likely to attract old-fashioned rural voters, but Newark was overwhelmingly pro-Fiona on the very accurate basis that she was at least more local than I was (I'd never seen a mushy pea in my life). She was also, I heard, the more charismatic speaker on the night. Fair enough result, I thought. The hostile stuff came from briefings by the hopelessly third-placed candidate.

    I was going off her Wikipedia page so the usual caveats apply. It said that she portrayed herself as a traditional left-winger at the selection then immediately reincarnated as New Labour Blairite once she'd secured it. The inference was that she may not have won had she been openly Blairite at the selection, leading to a whole different (well, marginally different) career for your good self.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    By the way I've received 3 leaflets for the Euros so far:

    An independence from Europe
    BNP
    UKIP
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    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    edited May 2014

    @Charles - As an aside, I thought Clarkson owned Top Gear - so I doubt the Beeb will sack him.

    The production company ‘Bedder 6’ the makers of ‘Top-Gear’ was set up by Clarkson, in conjunction with TG producer Andy Wilman, Last year however, BBC Worldwide bought out their 50% controlling stake in the company – Clarkson made a reported £8.4m on the deal.

    On that nursery rhyme , my daughter came home one day and recited it substituting the BAD WORD for some innocent one. Having not heard the evil version since schooldays I thought maybe the rhyme always was a pleasant one and I just went to an especially racist school (quite plausible in the area and time I did!) who corrupted it.

    Glad ,in a way, to see from the Clarkson debacle that it was not the school but 1970's Britain in general that was very naughty
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    Max Clifford's posing and preening in front of the pack of photographers is a bit weird. The man has confidence, I'll grant him that.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think I will pass this one. I have enjoyed our Turco-Italian banter.

    Pulpstar said:

    Diplomacy - still 3 places up for grabs in PB 2014 Mk3, passwords is catsandkittens, I think [Mr. Llama set it up].

    Hopefully I will fare better in this one !

    And not get Italy ;)
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited May 2014
    My initial guess at %s in Newark would be (disregarding others)

    Con 35
    UKIP 29
    Labour 23
    LD 13


    I would guess though that if Mercer was a popular MP with constituents that would work against the Conservatives

    Would take UKIP over Labour for 2nd though

    Friendly £20 at Evens @MikeSmithson‌ ? You have a £20 note of mine anyway so I have paid on


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    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    Pulpstar said:

    By the way I've received 3 leaflets for the Euros so far:

    An independence from Europe
    BNP
    UKIP

    Nicely arranged in alphabetical order as it will be on the ballot paper . Those pesky 'an independence frrm Europe ' people!!
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067

    @Charles - As an aside, I thought Clarkson owned Top Gear - so I doubt the Beeb will sack him.

    The production company ‘Bedder 6’ the makers of ‘Top-Gear’ was set up by Clarkson, in conjunction with TG producer Andy Wilman, Last year however, BBC Worldwide bought out their 50% controlling stake in the company – Clarkson made a reported £8.4m on the deal.

    [edit] irrespective of that, Clarkson is going no where.

    Unfortunately , he is a useless boring tw*t
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    LennonLennon Posts: 1,736
    edited May 2014
    isam said:

    My initial guess at %s in Newark would be (disregarding others)

    Con 35
    UKIP 29
    Labour 23
    LD 13

    I would guess though that if Mercer was a popular MP with constituents that would work against the Conservatives

    Would take UKIP over Labour for 2nd though

    Friendly £20 at Evens @MikeSmithson‌ ? You have a £20 note of mine anyway so I have paid on

    I struggle to see the LD's getting half of that... I would fully expect them to be in losing deposit territory again.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,713
    I think "Catch a 'Kipper by the toe" has a certain ring to it.

    Anyway, did anyone else use the "my mother and your mother were washing some clothes..." rhyme to pick who was 'it'?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    "Scotsman uses negative stereotype of Africa to make cheap political point"

    Institutional racism in the press?

    the sooner the Scotsman folds the better.
    Nationalist calling for Scots to lose their jobs shocker!

    Do you prefer the horse's mouth?

    An assessment of an independent Scotland on those issuers registered in Scotland covers three broad factors: (1) the impact of redenomination on outstanding debts in a new currency, given Moody's expectation that the UK authorities would likely persist in their refusal to tolerate a currency union with an independent Scotland; (2) the constraints on borrower creditworthiness coming from an independent Scotland's credit profile; and (3) any impact the economic and financial environment in an independent Scotland might have on borrower on creditworthiness.

    https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-Scottish-independence-unlikely-to-have-rating-implications-for-UK--PR_298421
    I have read the original , it is just the usual guff that no normal human being gives a toss about. If you asked 1000 people on the street about Moody's opinion it would be universal opinion that it is just self interested bollocks and of no interest.
    I see you avoid the fact that the Scotsman tries to make it something it is not by trying to be smart and mocking an African country by trying to imply Botswana is a joke.As Charles points out it shows they have no journalists , some ignoramus just thought "let's compare them to Africa " that will make it look bad. This is the reason they are almost readerless and will be gone in the near future, they do not have a clue.

    PS, given their output and ownership , I doubt many Scottish people will lose jobs when they fold. They are just an empty shell in Edinburgh nowadays.
    I didn't comment actually, but am glad that you regard me as the fount of all wisdom ;-)

    In any event I regard S&P more highly than Moody's
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited May 2014
    Lennon said:

    isam said:

    My initial guess at %s in Newark would be (disregarding others)

    Con 35
    UKIP 29
    Labour 23
    LD 13

    I would guess though that if Mercer was a popular MP with constituents that would work against the Conservatives

    Would take UKIP over Labour for 2nd though

    Friendly £20 at Evens @MikeSmithson‌ ? You have a £20 note of mine anyway so I have paid on

    I struggle to see the LD's getting half of that... I would fully expect them to be in losing deposit territory again.
    Ok thanks, I'll lazily bung that onto Labour and UKIP!

    Con 35
    UKIP 31
    Labour 28
    LD 6
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387
    Brilliant song about prejudice (and that word (or not)) by Tim Minchin:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387

    Good morning, everyone.

    Betfair's gone a sort of yellow-orange vomit hue. I dislike it.

    What on earth do you eat on a night out?

This discussion has been closed.