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  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Hurst

    Manchester hasn't been in Lancs since the early 70s...
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TGOHF & BobaFettt

    EUgonics?
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,141

    Mr. Gin, after the prequels I'm not confident the sequels will be good.

    Mr. Eagles, cretinous Labour and the politically correct bullshit of the Coalition (regarding Cornwall) has led us to this. An English Parliament would help to see off Yorkshire and other limp-wristed assemblies before they get a head of steam.

    But that would mean answering the West Lothian Question and giving the English a fair deal by choice instead of necessity.

    I really would like to see a thread headed by an article by an expert on Westminster as to whether the WLQ actually exists to any great degree outside the fevered imaginations of some of us - bearing in mind that anything with Barnett consequentials cannot, as a matter of principle, invoke Mr Dalyell's anathema (but at least he was honest in advocating total union as the only logical option to Scottish independence, as well as being a fine backbencher and columnist for New Scientist). Nor should it be allowed to count funding, such as the Olympics, deliberately directed at London but excluded from the Barnett system without just reason (as they have been trying to do with the London sewerage, Balzalgette for the 21st century).

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,948
    edited April 2014
    I've always considered Smoggieland aka Middlesbrough to be the armpit of the world, a recent visit to Portsmouth had made me re-evaluate my opinion of Middlesbrough.

    It is so bad, they should consider renaming it Hannibal Town.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Apparently today's GDP figures mean that excluding NS oil, we are above pre 2008 crisis levels.

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,805
    isam said:


    Except...

    I do always answer the questions, and I do understand it, clear as crystal.

    It is you who is acting strangely as you repeatedly ask questions of me, when the official policy would be just as easy to find, then argue constantly when you don't like my answers.

    You've never been able to show where I have argued inconsistently on immigration, yet you say the answers are irrelevant, incomplete, or whatever.

    You also do act like a patronising, smart arse.

    "Knowledge is good" etc, Jesus

    You've never asked me to show you, but for the record your answers on this matter seem, to me, often irrelevant and always incomplete. I don't believe I've ever accused you of them being inconsistent.

    As for being a patronising smart-arse. I'm sorry if you feel that. Others may agree or differ. But I might suggest, again, that it reflects on you rather than myself.

    And knowledge is good. Although I'm not sure what Jesus has to do with it ...
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2014
    ESI: Today's Good News - Part I

    The European Commission publish a regular survey of business and consumer confidence which they compile into an aggregate "Economic Sentiment Indicator" (ESI).

    The current edition has just been published and shows the UK recording its highest ever ESI since records began in 1990.

    Those PBers doubting that the economic recovery in the UK is being felt in either in the business sector or by consumers and households would do well to review the very comprehensive ESI results which can be downloaded from http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/db_indicators/surveys/index_en.htm

    Care should be taken not just to read the current figures but to look at the trend over the past 12 months.

    Here is a yellow box which compares the current UK ESI to its long term minimum and maximum recordings.
    +===========================================================+
    |European Commission: Economic Sentiment Indicator |
    |Indicators of confidence and economic sentiment (s.a.) |
    |-----------------------------------------------------------|
    | |Current| ----------Since 1990-----------|
    | | 2014 | Min. | Ave.| Max. |
    |UK | Apr | Date Value| | Date Value|
    |------------------|------ |------------|------|------------|
    | 1. Industry | 8.0 | 03-09 -49.0| -10.0| 11-13 11.3|
    | 2. Services | 29.9 | 03-09 -57.4| 3.2| 10-97 36.1|
    | 3. Consumer | 5.7 | 01-09 -35.2| -9.7| 10-97 7.1|
    | 4. Retail trade | 20.6 | 01-09 -47.1| 0.4| 02-14 24.5|
    | 5. Construction | -11.1 | 06-91 -79.3| -22.7| 10-07 5.5|
    |------------------|------ |------------|------|------------|
    |= 6. ESI | 119.5 | 03-09 64.1| 100.0| 04-14 119.5|
    +===========================================================+
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    BobaFett said:

    @JJ in the last few years I have voted Liberal and Green.

    You now vote Tory. Ergo you are now a Tory.

    I'd love to know what other definition you have for a Tory, other than someone who actively votes Tory and supports the Conservative Party.

    Do the PB Lefties endlessly refuse to be called Labourites? It would be perverse if they did, given they vote Labour.

    I'm a PB Leftie and I've only ever voted Labour once, in a council by-election when the only other candidate was Tory.

    The main reason for objecting against this sort of lazy labelling is that people go from the label to a further accusation which does not fit the individual. For example: You vote Tory, ergo you are a Tory, therefore you are in favour of eating babies. Why do you want to eat babies?!?

    We all know that only some Tories want to eat babies, not all of them.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,805

    I've always considered Smoggieland aka Middlesbrough to be the armpit of the world, a recent visit to Portsmouth had made me re-evaluate my opinion of Middlesbrough.

    It is so bad, they should consider renaming it Hannibal Town.

    How dare you! We chose to get married in Portsmouth.

    Oh, hang on ...
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @BobaFett

    I vote labour....though I am a certifiable commie b*stard?
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:


    Except...

    I do always answer the questions, and I do understand it, clear as crystal.

    It is you who is acting strangely as you repeatedly ask questions of me, when the official policy would be just as easy to find, then argue constantly when you don't like my answers.

    You've never been able to show where I have argued inconsistently on immigration, yet you say the answers are irrelevant, incomplete, or whatever.

    You also do act like a patronising, smart arse.

    "Knowledge is good" etc, Jesus

    You've never asked me to show you, but for the record your answers on this matter seem, to me, often irrelevant and always incomplete. I don't believe I've ever accused you of them being inconsistent.

    As for being a patronising smart-arse. I'm sorry if you feel that. Others may agree or differ. But I might suggest, again, that it reflects on you rather than myself.

    And knowledge is good. Although I'm not sure what Jesus has to do with it ...
    My life, what on earth am I doing conversing with people like you?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,162
    Mr. Carnyx, we know it does because of the idiocy of letting MPs for Scottish constituency vote on tuition fees which don't affect them. There's no accountability in such a system.

    Mr. Me, quite so. The Bishop of Bath and Wells was a notorious Conservative.
  • Options

    I've always considered Smoggieland aka Middlesbrough to be the armpit of the world, a recent visit to Portsmouth had made me re-evaluate my opinion of Middlesbrough.

    It is so bad, they should consider renaming it Hannibal Town.

    How dare you! We chose to get married in Portsmouth.

    Oh, hang on ...
    My Southampton residing friends often remind me of this (from 2003 during the liberation of Iraq)

    Umm Qasr is a town similar to Southampton”, UK Defence Minister Geoff Hoon told the House of Commons yesterday.

    “He’s either never been to Southampton, or he’s never been to Umm Qasr”, said one British soldier, informed of this while on patrol in Umm Qasr. Another added: “There’s no beer, no prostitutes, and people are shooting at us. It’s more like Portsmouth.”

    http://www.samizdata.net/2003/03/more-like-portsmouth/
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2014
    ESI: Today's Good News - Part II

    Here are a couple of yellow boxes going back over the previous twelve months of surveys.

    This shows a steady rise in measured confidence over the past year. In May of last year four out of the five sectors recorded a negative reading and the aggregate indicator was below its long term average.

    Just twelve months later, four of the sectors are recording positive figures with the aggregate at a twenty five year high. Only Construction remains negative.
    +===========================================================+
    |European Commission: Economic Sentiment Indicator |
    |Indicators of confidence and economic sentiment (s.a.) |
    |-----------------------------------------------------------|
    | | ---------------2013----------------- |
    | UK | May Jun Jul | Aug Sep Oct |
    | ------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
    | 1. Industry | -7.8 -11.4 -4.4 | 0.3 9.6 2.3 |
    | 2. Services | -7.5 1.8 4.7 | 10.5 14.0 29.4 |
    | 3. Consumer | -17.5 -15.5 -6.9 | -3.5 -1.0 -2.1 |
    | 4. Retail trade | 0.2 0.1 13.9 | 23.8 24.4 22.2 |
    | 5. Construction | -27.1 -24.8 -24.1 | -16.1 -19.1 -14.6 |
    | ------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
    | = 6. ESI | 97.7 97.5 104.6 | 108.5 115.1 114.8 |
    +===========================================================+
    +===========================================================+
    |European Commission: Economic Sentiment Indicator |
    |Indicators of confidence and economic sentiment (s.a.) |
    |-----------------------------------------------------------|
    | | ---2013-- | ---------2014---------- |
    | UK | Nov Dec | Jan | Feb Mar Apr |
    | ------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
    | 1. Industry | 11.3 8.8 5.9 | 6.0 1.3 8.0 |
    | 2. Services | 21.0 23.9 23.2 | 27.1 22.3 29.9 |
    | 3. Consumer | -2.9 -3.3 1.0 | 2.0 3.3 5.7 |
    | 4. Retail trade | -3.2 7.6 19.4 | 24.5 7.9 20.6 |
    | 5. Construction | -9.6 -17.8 -4.6 | -11.3 -9.5 -11.1 |
    | ------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
    | = 6. ESI | 115.0 114.9 115.9 | 116.9 112.8 119.5 |
    +===========================================================+
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,672
    Carnyx said:



    You might not end up in the creeks of the Tees estuary if you typed the correctly spelt name into your satnav ... it does have a fine book about it, 'At the works' by Lady Bell ...

    Why "Middlesborough" doesn't autocorrect is a bit of a mystery. Not even the autocorrect wants to go there.... Anyway, its own silly fault for their football club being "Boro".

    Unlike most, I actually have happy memories of going to Middlesbrough, but only because of it hosting Glaucous-winged Gull and Lesser-crested Tern. I have similar ecstatic memories of Hartlepool and South Shields too.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,162
    edited April 2014
    Mr. Isam, you could choose to unwind by enjoying a politically incorrect comedy entitled Sir Edric's Temple. I hear it gets rave reviews.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, that's rather good.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    AveryLP said:


    | |Current| ----------Since 1990-----------|
    | | 2014 | Min. | Ave.| Max. |
    |UK | Apr | Date Value| | Date Value|
    |------------------|------ |------------|------|------------|
    | 5. Construction | -11.1 | 06-91 -79.3| -22.7| 10-07 5.5|

    That isn't a particularly good precedent, ALP.
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    From 2007, Boris once again is brilliantly accurate

    Boris Johnson claimed Portsmouth was "too full of drugs, obesity, underachievement and Labour MPs.’’

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1547546/Now-Johnson-upsets-Portsmouth.html
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,805
    BobaFett said:

    @JJ in the last few years I have voted Liberal and Green.

    You now vote Tory. Ergo you are now a Tory.

    I'd love to know what other definition you have for a Tory, other than someone who actively votes Tory and supports the Conservative Party.

    Do the PB Lefties endlessly refuse to be called Labourites? It would be perverse if they did, given they vote Labour.

    How do you know "I know vote Tory'? My last vote at (I think) the locals was Green, because he was the best of a bad bunch of candidates.

    My local MP is Lansley, and I've said many times that I'd prefer not to vote for him - he's not a good constituency MP IMHO. Besides, I generally vote for a candidate, not a party, although due to dire election literature that's often difficult.

    The chances are I won't vote Conservative in 2015. I've no idea how I'm going to vote next month.

    Not everyone is tribal.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,805
    isam said:

    isam said:


    Except...

    I do always answer the questions, and I do understand it, clear as crystal.

    It is you who is acting strangely as you repeatedly ask questions of me, when the official policy would be just as easy to find, then argue constantly when you don't like my answers.

    You've never been able to show where I have argued inconsistently on immigration, yet you say the answers are irrelevant, incomplete, or whatever.

    You also do act like a patronising, smart arse.

    "Knowledge is good" etc, Jesus

    You've never asked me to show you, but for the record your answers on this matter seem, to me, often irrelevant and always incomplete. I don't believe I've ever accused you of them being inconsistent.

    As for being a patronising smart-arse. I'm sorry if you feel that. Others may agree or differ. But I might suggest, again, that it reflects on you rather than myself.

    And knowledge is good. Although I'm not sure what Jesus has to do with it ...
    My life, what on earth am I doing conversing with people like you?
    I don't know. You know where the door is ...
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I haven't seen a kipper burn so fast since I visited my Auntie Morag in Arbroath.

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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,412

    GIN1138 said:



    I read Boris was looking for a London Seat?

    Boris will get what he is bloody given, and like it or lump it....

    Interesting insight to how Conservative selection processes work!
    GIN1138 said:

    "This morning I’m off to London for a session with Professors Curtice, Rallings and Thrasher on this year’s local elections. Hopefully we’ll get the first projections of seat losses and gains. The event is organised the Political Studies Association. I’ll be reporting later."

    Looking forward to this. EU elections are getting all the attention, but are very insignificant - Local elections could be much more important...

    Mike will no doubt give much more detail, but from memory he tweeted earlier that they expected 500 Labour gains based on a 3-point lead in recent council elections, but the figure for UKIP gains was ???. Consider this a taster!
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2014
    ESI: Today's Good News - Part III

    And so we can all compare the UK to the EU, here are the same figures for the Eurozone Area (EA).

    First up the comparison of this month with historical highs and lows.
    +===========================================================+
    |European Commission: Economic Sentiment Indicator |
    |Indicators of confidence and economic sentiment (s.a.) |
    |-----------------------------------------------------------|
    | |Current| ----------Since 1990-----------|
    | | 2014 | Min. | Ave.| Max. |
    |EA | Apr | Date Value| | Date Value|
    |------------------|------ |------------|------|------------|
    | 1. Industry | -3.6 | 03-09 -38.1| -6.9| 04-07 7.9|
    | 2. Services | 3.5 | 03-09 -26.1| 9.1| 08-98 35.4|
    | 3. Consumer | -8.6 | 03-09 -34.3| -13.2| 05-00 2.4|
    | 4. Retail trade | -2.6 | 01-93 -24.8| -9.2| 06-90 5.2|
    | 5. Construction | -30.3 | 09-93 -46.0| -18.2| 02-90 6.0|
    |------------------|-------|------------|------|------------|
    |= 6. ESI | 102.0 | 03-09 70.1| 100.0| 05-00 118.6|
    |------------------|-------|------------|------|------------|
    | 7. Financial S. | 10.9 | 01-09 -21.8| 11.1| 04-06 42.6|
    +===========================================================+
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Boris Johnson claimed Portsmouth was "too full of drugs, obesity, underachievement and Labour MPs.’’

    The last of those at least has since been fixed.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2014
    ESI: Today's Good News - Part IV

    And now the Eurozone Area (EA) figures for the past twelve months.

    Note a new sector, Financial Services, has been introduced. It is published only for the aggregate EU and EA figures and not for individual countries. It does not yet contribute to the calculation of the headline ESI.
    +===========================================================+
    |European Commission: Economic Sentiment Indicator |
    |Indicators of confidence and economic sentiment (s.a.) |
    |-----------------------------------------------------------|
    | | ---------------2013----------------- |
    | EA | May Jun Jul | Aug Sep Oct |
    | ------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
    | 1. Industry | -13.0 -11.2 -10.6 | -7.8 -6.6 -5.0 |
    | 2. Services | -9.2 -9.5 -7.7 | -5.1 -3.2 -3.6 |
    | 3. Consumer | -21.7 -18.7 -17.3 | -15.5 -14.8 -14.4 |
    | 4. Retail trade | -16.7 -14.5 -13.9 | -10.5 -6.8 -7.7 |
    | 5. Construction | -32.5 -31.2 -32.1 | -32.6 -28.3 -29.1 |
    |-------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
    | = 6. ESI | 89.8 91.7 92.9 | 95.7 97.3 98.1 |
    |-------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
    | 7. Financial S. | -2.1 -1.4 1.7 | 5.2 11.3 8.6 |
    +===========================================================+
    +===========================================================+
    |European Commission: Economic Sentiment Indicator |
    |Indicators of confidence and economic sentiment (s.a.) |
    |-----------------------------------------------------------|
    | | ---2013-- | ---------2014---------- |
    | EA | Nov Dec | Jan | Feb Mar Apr |
    | ------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
    | 1. Industry | -3.9 -3.4 -3.8 | -3.5 -3.3 -3.6 |
    | 2. Services | -0.8 0.4 2.4 | 3.3 4.5 3.5 |
    | 3. Consumer | -15.3 -13.5 -11.7 | -12.7 -9.3 -8.6 |
    | 4. Retail trade | -7.7 -5.0 -3.4 | -3.0 -2.5 -2.6 |
    | 5. Construction | -30.4 -26.4 -29.8 | -28.5 -28.7 -30.3 |
    | ------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
    | = 6. ESI | 98.8 100.4 101.0 | 101.2 102.5 102.0 |
    |-------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
    | 7. Financial S. | 4.9 6.9 11.0 | 8.5 2.8 10.9 |
    +===========================================================+
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:


    Except...

    I do always answer the questions, and I do understand it, clear as crystal.

    It is you who is acting strangely as you repeatedly ask questions of me, when the official policy would be just as easy to find, then argue constantly when you don't like my answers.

    You've never been able to show where I have argued inconsistently on immigration, yet you say the answers are irrelevant, incomplete, or whatever.

    You also do act like a patronising, smart arse.

    "Knowledge is good" etc, Jesus

    You've never asked me to show you, but for the record your answers on this matter seem, to me, often irrelevant and always incomplete. I don't believe I've ever accused you of them being inconsistent.

    As for being a patronising smart-arse. I'm sorry if you feel that. Others may agree or differ. But I might suggest, again, that it reflects on you rather than myself.

    And knowledge is good. Although I'm not sure what Jesus has to do with it ...
    My life, what on earth am I doing conversing with people like you?
    I don't know. You know where the door is ...
    Re read your posts over the last hour or so and have a think whether you might come over as a bit of a smart arse.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Goddam! The yellow diarrhoea has struck PB again.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,928
    edited April 2014
    And as a final final note about the Kippers, it is hugely early days if they are serious about graduating from being a protest group to being a political force. We have just seen the LDs get a shellacking as they passed a critical milestone as a party and are now at a key juncture whereat they need to define themselves and what they are for in order to maintain a constituency.

    UKIP are of course well off that but that's not to say they won't craft a rounded political philosophy in the years ahead. If they are playing the long game, and that is surely the plan, then all the policies and stuff will follow.

    My $0.02 is sceptical because I can't see NFarage at the helm of what will have to be a watered-down version of today's party. But it is all to play for and there is no need for NFarage to be the leader of the fifth or sixth generation and iteration of the party in future.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,805

    I've always considered Smoggieland aka Middlesbrough to be the armpit of the world, a recent visit to Portsmouth had made me re-evaluate my opinion of Middlesbrough.

    It is so bad, they should consider renaming it Hannibal Town.

    How dare you! We chose to get married in Portsmouth.

    Oh, hang on ...
    My Southampton residing friends often remind me of this (from 2003 during the liberation of Iraq)

    Umm Qasr is a town similar to Southampton”, UK Defence Minister Geoff Hoon told the House of Commons yesterday.

    “He’s either never been to Southampton, or he’s never been to Umm Qasr”, said one British soldier, informed of this while on patrol in Umm Qasr. Another added: “There’s no beer, no prostitutes, and people are shooting at us. It’s more like Portsmouth.”

    http://www.samizdata.net/2003/03/more-like-portsmouth/
    I love Southampton. If our work allowed I'd like to live down there again. Mind you, we were more Romsey than Southampton...

    Portsmouth is a bit odd. The coastal areas are pleasant; the walk past Southsea and Old Portsmouth can be very pretty. But go inland and parts are awful.

    However Middlesborough's much worse. There's a path from the football stadium towards the sea at Redcar that runs for miles between a steelworks and a chemical plant. The path is waterlogged, the entire place stinks of chemicals, and you feared that if your boot slipped into the water it would dissolve. The worst stretch of path in 6,200 miles.

    And it is part of a named trail, the Teesdale Way. It's a hideous walk, the only upside being the fantastic Transporter Bridge. And who wouldn't want a fast way out of Middlesbrough?

    http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=24276.0
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    My local MP is Lansley...
    The chances are I won't vote Conservative in 2015...

    I can say with certainty that if you are still in Lansley's constituency come 2015 it won't matter which way you vote. I don't know whether that makes the choice easier for you or not.

  • Options
    New thread.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    BobaFett said:

    @Hurst

    Manchester hasn't been in Lancs since the early 70s...

    Of course Manchester is in Lancashire. I can look at a map, there is a blob sort of top left labelled Lancashire, in that blob is Manchester. You might just as well argue that Brighton is not in Sussex. The fact that that bloody fool Heath mucked about with local government forty years ago does not change reality.

    I am prepared to apologise to Mr. Eagles, though. I missed the fact that he had left the Land of Mordor for his native Yorkshire. He used to post on how great was living in Manchester City centre, he obviously saw the light eventually. Mind you, if he has gone back to Sheffield one might reasonably question his sanity.

    P.S. Mrs Llama has this morning decreed that we are to have a holiday in Yorkshire as she has never been there. It is to be a motoring holiday and I am to plan the route. She is in for an eye opener.

  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:


    | |Current| ----------Since 1990-----------|
    | | 2014 | Min. | Ave.| Max. |
    |UK | Apr | Date Value| | Date Value|
    |------------------|------ |------------|------|------------|
    | 5. Construction | -11.1 | 06-91 -79.3| -22.7| 10-07 5.5|

    That isn't a particularly good precedent, ALP.
    Is the problem with the format, data or source?

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,805

    My local MP is Lansley...
    The chances are I won't vote Conservative in 2015...

    I can say with certainty that if you are still in Lansley's constituency come 2015 it won't matter which way you vote. I don't know whether that makes the choice easier for you or not.

    Ah wow, thanks. Then it'll depend who replaces him. Hopefully it'll be someone who actually sticks his nose within the constituency once in a while ...
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,141

    Mr. Carnyx, we know it does because of the idiocy of letting MPs for Scottish constituency vote on tuition fees which don't affect them. There's no accountability in such a system.

    Mr. Me, quite so. The Bishop of Bath and Wells was a notorious Conservative.

    But surely it has Barnett consequentials? I can't see how it doesn't, as it would have led to a cut in the budget, at least for that item. Though the more I think about it perhaps the Scots should be getting more money not less, given the Willetts scheme ...
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,805
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:


    Except...

    I do always answer the questions, and I do understand it, clear as crystal.

    It is you who is acting strangely as you repeatedly ask questions of me, when the official policy would be just as easy to find, then argue constantly when you don't like my answers.

    You've never been able to show where I have argued inconsistently on immigration, yet you say the answers are irrelevant, incomplete, or whatever.

    You also do act like a patronising, smart arse.

    "Knowledge is good" etc, Jesus

    You've never asked me to show you, but for the record your answers on this matter seem, to me, often irrelevant and always incomplete. I don't believe I've ever accused you of them being inconsistent.

    As for being a patronising smart-arse. I'm sorry if you feel that. Others may agree or differ. But I might suggest, again, that it reflects on you rather than myself.

    And knowledge is good. Although I'm not sure what Jesus has to do with it ...
    My life, what on earth am I doing conversing with people like you?
    I don't know. You know where the door is ...
    Re read your posts over the last hour or so and have a think whether you might come over as a bit of a smart arse.
    Why? Because I'm challenging you?

    And perhaps you should take your own advice, and wonder how your posts may appear to others. Without wanting to sound like a smart-arse, it's very difficult to get intonation across on the Internet, and meanings can often get lost or confused.

    We've had run-ins in the past, and I welcomed you back after you were away for a while. I've also agreed with you on some things (you even mentioned me for doing so a few nights ago). If I manage to make it to the meet then I'll buy you a drink as a peace offering, okay?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:


    Except...

    I do always answer the questions, and I do understand it, clear as crystal.

    It is you who is acting strangely as you repeatedly ask questions of me, when the official policy would be just as easy to find, then argue constantly when you don't like my answers.

    You've never been able to show where I have argued inconsistently on immigration, yet you say the answers are irrelevant, incomplete, or whatever.

    You also do act like a patronising, smart arse.

    "Knowledge is good" etc, Jesus

    You've never asked me to show you, but for the record your answers on this matter seem, to me, often irrelevant and always incomplete. I don't believe I've ever accused you of them being inconsistent.

    As for being a patronising smart-arse. I'm sorry if you feel that. Others may agree or differ. But I might suggest, again, that it reflects on you rather than myself.

    And knowledge is good. Although I'm not sure what Jesus has to do with it ...
    My life, what on earth am I doing conversing with people like you?
    I don't know. You know where the door is ...
    Re read your posts over the last hour or so and have a think whether you might come over as a bit of a smart arse.
    Why? Because I'm challenging you?

    And perhaps you should take your own advice, and wonder how your posts may appear to others. Without wanting to sound like a smart-arse, it's very difficult to get intonation across on the Internet, and meanings can often get lost or confused.

    We've had run-ins in the past, and I welcomed you back after you were away for a while. I've also agreed with you on some things (you even mentioned me for doing so a few nights ago). If I manage to make it to the meet then I'll buy you a drink as a peace offering, okay?
    You've never pointed out where I am wrong on immigration other than to say you don't necessarily agree with it.

    I realise that it is difficult to read intonation on the internet, and yes if we are both there on Friday maybe it will be easier to discuss over a drink
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,805
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:


    Except...

    I do always answer the questions, and I do understand it, clear as crystal.

    It is you who is acting strangely as you repeatedly ask questions of me, when the official policy would be just as easy to find, then argue constantly when you don't like my answers.

    You've never been able to show where I have argued inconsistently on immigration, yet you say the answers are irrelevant, incomplete, or whatever.

    You also do act like a patronising, smart arse.

    "Knowledge is good" etc, Jesus

    You've never asked me to show you, but for the record your answers on this matter seem, to me, often irrelevant and always incomplete. I don't believe I've ever accused you of them being inconsistent.

    As for being a patronising smart-arse. I'm sorry if you feel that. Others may agree or differ. But I might suggest, again, that it reflects on you rather than myself.

    And knowledge is good. Although I'm not sure what Jesus has to do with it ...
    My life, what on earth am I doing conversing with people like you?
    I don't know. You know where the door is ...
    Re read your posts over the last hour or so and have a think whether you might come over as a bit of a smart arse.
    Why? Because I'm challenging you?

    And perhaps you should take your own advice, and wonder how your posts may appear to others. Without wanting to sound like a smart-arse, it's very difficult to get intonation across on the Internet, and meanings can often get lost or confused.

    We've had run-ins in the past, and I welcomed you back after you were away for a while. I've also agreed with you on some things (you even mentioned me for doing so a few nights ago). If I manage to make it to the meet then I'll buy you a drink as a peace offering, okay?
    You've never pointed out where I am wrong on immigration other than to say you don't necessarily agree with it.

    I realise that it is difficult to read intonation on the internet, and yes if we are both there on Friday maybe it will be easier to discuss over a drink
    Sam, I've PM'ed you.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Good early Evening. OMG! more bloody yellow poxes/boxes.

    Meanwhile this for your edification:
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/douglas-murray/2014/04/are-you-fit-to-be-a-liberal-democrat-a-response-to-nick-cohen/

    Also Helmers rebuttal of the SUN's accusations against him.
    HELMER Roger OFFICE

    09:29 (7 hours ago)
    HELMER

    The Sun: False and defamatory

    I was deeply shocked today by today’s report, and editorial piece, in the Sun. It claimed that I had said “It’s fine to despise gay people”, that “being gay is a mental health issue”, and that I had suggested that “homophobia is OK”. None of these propositions is true, or remotely relates to my views.

    I was phoned (as I was driving, and concentrating, at least in part, on the traffic) by the Sun’s deputy political editor Steve Hawkes, who asked about my views on homosexuality.

    In the course of a short conversation, I simply made the point that people were entitled to their personal preferences. It is morally acceptable to prefer heterosexuality over homosexuality, or vice versa. Most of us prefer one or the other. So let’s look at the Sun’s claims:

    “It’s OK to despise gay people”: How the Sun gets from “It’s OK to have personal preferences” to “It’s OK to despise gay people”, I’m not sure.

    “Being gay is a mental condition”. In about thirty seconds I was able to identify two blog posts in my extensive blog archive in which I make the point explicitly that homosexuality is not a disease.

    “Homophobia is OK”. As a technical linguistic point, I have questioned the use of the term “phobia” in this context, since it has a specific meaning in psychiatry which does not (it seems to me) apply in this case. But I have also written very clearly (and in the same piece) that prejudice, hostility and violence against homosexuals are wrong, and totally unacceptable.

    UKIP supporters will recognise the principle at work here: the mainstream media are engaged in a feeding frenzy against UKIP, and are prepared to twist the facts to suit their agenda. It seems that prejudice and hostility are alive and well at the Sun. This journalist’s boss is (I assume) the Sun’s Political Editor Tom Newton Dunn, the son of Bill Newton Dunn, the Lib-Dem MEP whose seat is under threat in the East Midlands.

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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,406

    MikeK said:

    Bill Etheridge ‏@milroy666 23h
    Ex nazi in the Labour Party ? http://m.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/local/former-nazi-wins-a-labour-council-seat-1-3826439

    Now if this had been a UKIP councillor, the shrieks from the Labour party would have waken the dead. Who are the hypocrites now?

    I'm not a Labourite (although I daresay someone'll chuck me in that category - I've been placed everywhere else), but I think that's unfair.

    1) She has been open about her past - she hasn't hidden it.
    2) She openly regrets it and has moved on.
    3) It was over thirty years ago.
    4) There are apparently no legal proceedings outstanding for either her political activity or her animal rights stupidity.

    I've told a story in the past about an acquaintance who'd been a neo-Nazi in the 1980s. I became friends with him before I discovered, but I decided to treat him like anyone else. I never heard or saw anything remotely off with him, and he behaved politely and friendly towards my gfs, including foreign ones. To be frank he was a bit slow, and definitely seemed to fit into the 'brainwashed' category.

    He just wanted somewhere he'd fit in and be accepted, so he went from a neo-Nazi group to railway preservation. I suppose that's an improvement ... ;-)
    Mike's point is perfectly valid though. If this had been a UKIP councillor there would have been hell to pay. This is not a case of attacking the person who made an unfortunate and stupid choice in a previous life but about the hypocrisy of the other parties regarding UKIP.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,406
    test
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,406

    MikeK said:

    Bill Etheridge ‏@milroy666 23h
    Ex nazi in the Labour Party ? http://m.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/local/former-nazi-wins-a-labour-council-seat-1-3826439

    Now if this had been a UKIP councillor, the shrieks from the Labour party would have waken the dead. Who are the hypocrites now?

    I'm not a Labourite (although I daresay someone'll chuck me in that category - I've been placed everywhere else), but I think that's unfair.

    1) She has been open about her past - she hasn't hidden it.
    2) She openly regrets it and has moved on.
    3) It was over thirty years ago.
    4) There are apparently no legal proceedings outstanding for either her political activity or her animal rights stupidity.

    I've told a story in the past about an acquaintance who'd been a neo-Nazi in the 1980s. I became friends with him before I discovered, but I decided to treat him like anyone else. I never heard or saw anything remotely off with him, and he behaved politely and friendly towards my gfs, including foreign ones. To be frank he was a bit slow, and definitely seemed to fit into the 'brainwashed' category.

    He just wanted somewhere he'd fit in and be accepted, so he went from a neo-Nazi group to railway preservation. I suppose that's an improvement ... ;-)
    This is not about the individual, it is about the reaction that would have been elicited if this councillor had been a UKIP member. Personally I think people can and should be able to put their past behind them eventually but I am sure that the other parties would have been all over this if it had been a UKIP councillor. Utter hypocrisy.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,406
    test
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,406

    MikeK said:

    Bill Etheridge ‏@milroy666 23h
    Ex nazi in the Labour Party ? http://m.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/local/former-nazi-wins-a-labour-council-seat-1-3826439

    Now if this had been a UKIP councillor, the shrieks from the Labour party would have waken the dead. Who are the hypocrites now?

    I'm not a Labourite (although I daresay someone'll chuck me in that category - I've been placed everywhere else), but I think that's unfair.

    1) She has been open about her past - she hasn't hidden it.
    2) She openly regrets it and has moved on.
    3) It was over thirty years ago.
    4) There are apparently no legal proceedings outstanding for either her political activity or her animal rights stupidity.

    I've told a story in the past about an acquaintance who'd been a neo-Nazi in the 1980s. I became friends with him before I discovered, but I decided to treat him like anyone else. I never heard or saw anything remotely off with him, and he behaved politely and friendly towards my gfs, including foreign ones. To be frank he was a bit slow, and definitely seemed to fit into the 'brainwashed' category.

    He just wanted somewhere he'd fit in and be accepted, so he went from a neo-Nazi group to railway preservation. I suppose that's an improvement ... ;-)
    This is not about the individual, it is about the reaction that would have been elicited if this councillor had been a UKIP member. Personally I think people can and should be able to put their past behind them eventually but I am sure that the other parties would have been all over this if it had been a UKIP councillor. Utter hypocrisy.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,406
    test
This discussion has been closed.