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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON fights back against UKIP with what’s been hugely effect

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited April 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON fights back against UKIP with what’s been hugely effective voter mobilisation strategy in the US

This morning Tory chairman, Grant Shapps, sent me the above email with an invitation to take part in a conference call with the Prime Minister tonight. Although the text doesn’t say it specifically there’s a suggestion that I could be in dialogue with Mr. Cameron.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Interesting, Messina effect?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited April 2014
    I see your email from Grant Shapps and raise you the invite Dave sent me on Thursday
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,963
    A great strategy - far more modern than people like me tramping the streets with leaflets or door knocking. However, if the target market is Tory defectees to UKIP - and their dislike of Cameron seems to be the theme that consistently comes out of this group- would having Cameron talk to them do any good?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    But why call in - why not stream on the interweb ?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    I think the Euros are hard to read. At a push I'd guess UKIP will get the largest vote share, with Labour a little behind them, and the Tories in third place.

    However, what is clear is that UKIP has built up massive expectations. Anything less than first place will look like a disappointment, and first place is already 'in the price'.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Does IOS approve of the algorithm used to select people to dial in to the teleconference?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited April 2014
    The Prime Minister hasn't emailed me.

    I am, however, apparently in a syndicate combination perm (576 variations) for the Scoop 6 bonus !
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Yes, I've had one too - they seem to have gone for every email address they could find rather than targeting UKIP (I doubt if I'm on any UKIP-leaning lists). It'll be fun to hear how it turns out.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    RochdalePioneers said:

    A great strategy - far more modern than people like me tramping the streets with leaflets or door knocking. However, if the target market is Tory defectees to UKIP - and their dislike of Cameron seems to be the theme that consistently comes out of this group- would having Cameron talk to them do any good?

    They don't all dislike him. And it's about partly that extra couple percent now and maintaining contact for a years time when it really matters
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    *Checks emails*

    Nope, nothing from the Conservative Party. So who gets invited to these on-line meetings? How can they affect the voting intention of people that aren't invited?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,054
    Wow. Mega win for the Chancellor, Pfizer to move its HQ to the UK after purchasing/merging with AsteaZeneca. That's got to hurt for the US. Losing a high profile company to the UK like that is dangerous for them. It is time for the US to remove their tax claims on global and non-US profits for US based companies.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I think the Euros are hard to read. At a push I'd guess UKIP will get the largest vote share, with Labour a little behind them, and the Tories in third place.

    However, what is clear is that UKIP has built up massive expectations. Anything less than first place will look like a disappointment, and first place is already 'in the price'.

    31/26/24 UKIP/Lab/Con

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,054
    TGOHF said:

    But why call in - why not stream on the interweb ?

    Old people.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    HurstLlama said:

    *Checks emails*

    Nope, nothing from the Conservative Party. So who gets invited to these on-line meetings? How can they affect the voting intention of people that aren't invited?

    Looks like the algorithms have worked well.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting, Messina effect?

    If they send out an email from David Cameron with the subject line "Hey", that'll be based on the Obama campaign data.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    NickPalmer said:

    Yes, I've had one too - they seem to have gone for every email address they could find rather than targeting UKIP (I doubt if I'm on any UKIP-leaning lists). It'll be fun to hear how it turns out.

    I somehow got on a Lib Dem email distribution list but they removed me after I responded to one of their spam efforts in a particularly forthright manner.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    dyedwoolie said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I think the Euros are hard to read. At a push I'd guess UKIP will get the largest vote share, with Labour a little behind them, and the Tories in third place.

    However, what is clear is that UKIP has built up massive expectations. Anything less than first place will look like a disappointment, and first place is already 'in the price'.

    31/26/24 UKIP/Lab/Con

    I'd guess UKIP a bit lower and Labour a bit higher, but I don't have great confidence in that guess.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Matthew Goodwin ‏@GoodwinMJ 50m

    Daily Politics panel reflecting everything wrong with #Ukip debate. Four mainstream voices ganging up on populist outsider #bbcdp
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    MaxPB said:

    Wow. Mega win for the Chancellor, Pfizer to move its HQ to the UK after purchasing/merging with AsteaZeneca. That's got to hurt for the US. Losing a high profile company to the UK like that is dangerous for them. It is time for the US to remove their tax claims on global and non-US profits for US based companies.

    Granted PR-wise it matters less, but the actual takeover is far from complete.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    That's got to hurt for the US.

    Not to mention the US based employees.

    SELL your huge US mansion with acres, swimming pool and treble garage.

    BUY A two bedroom apartment in Acton.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    So this email effort has targetted OGH, a nailed on Lib Dem and Mr Palmer who rumour has it tends to vote Labour....
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Grandiose said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow. Mega win for the Chancellor, Pfizer to move its HQ to the UK after purchasing/merging with AsteaZeneca. That's got to hurt for the US. Losing a high profile company to the UK like that is dangerous for them. It is time for the US to remove their tax claims on global and non-US profits for US based companies.

    Granted PR-wise it matters less, but the actual takeover is far from complete.
    I think if we have got to where we are the only uncertainty is the price.

    Or perhaps the EU will step in and try and block it - that would be interesting.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    dyedwoolie said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I think the Euros are hard to read. At a push I'd guess UKIP will get the largest vote share, with Labour a little behind them, and the Tories in third place.

    However, what is clear is that UKIP has built up massive expectations. Anything less than first place will look like a disappointment, and first place is already 'in the price'.

    31/26/24 UKIP/Lab/Con

    I'd guess UKIP a bit lower and Labour a bit higher, but I don't have great confidence in that guess.
    ICM have UKIP on 20%
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    HurstLlama said:

    *Checks emails*

    Nope, nothing from the Conservative Party. So who gets invited to these on-line meetings? How can they affect the voting intention of people that aren't invited?

    Click the link below and you can speak to Dave, and you can tell him what a splendid job he is doing.

    https://registration.broadnet.us/registration/event_registration.php?pid=524&fbs=_teleforum&sig=891f95ed202a85971bae474349cd9588e2f4c8ea101572ccf1e43031ce4fe48e
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    HurstLlama said:

    *Checks emails*

    Nope, nothing from the Conservative Party. So who gets invited to these on-line meetings? How can they affect the voting intention of people that aren't invited?

    I had one towards the end of last week.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited April 2014
    I would take part in this, but unfortunately I will be on the 18:20 train from Manchester Pic to Dore.

    Grant/Dave, if you're reading (and we know you do), could reschedule this back an hour for me?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    edited April 2014
    I've not had one either. Definetly not going to vote Tory now!

    Pfizer, not so long ago, moved their main research place, and, IIRC Head Office, out of UK. It was at Sandwich.

    Presume the move was because we're in the EU?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    MaxPB said:

    Wow. Mega win for the Chancellor, Pfizer to move its HQ to the UK after purchasing/merging with AsteaZeneca. That's got to hurt for the US. Losing a high profile company to the UK like that is dangerous for them. It is time for the US to remove their tax claims on global and non-US profits for US based companies.

    I would have thought US tax policy was best set on whether the additional income they get from global and non-US profits is worth more than the US-based profits they lose by having that policy in place.

    Far too many people think that policy should be changed just because a negative effect occurs, when the negative effect should always be compared to the positive effect.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    OGH - do you have an inkling as to who the other participants may be and the numbers involved ? - cheers in advance.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I think the Euros are hard to read. At a push I'd guess UKIP will get the largest vote share, with Labour a little behind them, and the Tories in third place.

    However, what is clear is that UKIP has built up massive expectations. Anything less than first place will look like a disappointment, and first place is already 'in the price'.

    The result will be primarily compared to the result last time, whatever the expectations. The difference from the expectations may be the caveat, however.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    HurstLlama said:

    *Checks emails*

    Nope, nothing from the Conservative Party. So who gets invited to these on-line meetings? How can they affect the voting intention of people that aren't invited?

    Looks like the algorithms have worked well.
    I'd say so Mr. N.. We know that OGH and Nick Palmer have been invited and, with due respect to both chaps, hell will freeze over before either will vote Conservative. I am not sure how this can be seen as a "hugely effective voter mobilisation strategy"
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I would take part in this, but unfortunately I will be on the 18:20 train from Manchester Pic to Dore.

    Grant/Dave, if you're reading (and we know you do), could reschedule this back an hour for me?

    Sadly I'll be cooking. Why don't those evil Conservatives consider those whose feminist wives cruelly force them to cook meals? How am I supposed to listen to Dave as I create a spinach and feta pie? How can I concentrate on fulfilling my wife's every desire with Dave droning on in the background?

    Besides, I'll miss the Archers ...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    HurstLlama said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    HurstLlama said:

    *Checks emails*

    Nope, nothing from the Conservative Party. So who gets invited to these on-line meetings? How can they affect the voting intention of people that aren't invited?

    Looks like the algorithms have worked well.
    I'd say so Mr. N.. We know that OGH and Nick Palmer have been invited and, with due respect to both chaps, hell will freeze over before either will vote Conservative. I am not sure how this can be seen as a "hugely effective voter mobilisation strategy"
    It's mobilising the opposition. Quite effective in its own way . ;-)
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    SimonStClare said:

    OGH - do you have an inkling as to who the other participants may be and the numbers involved ? - cheers in advance.

    Unfortunately Grant didn't let me know
    Socrates said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I think the Euros are hard to read. At a push I'd guess UKIP will get the largest vote share, with Labour a little behind them, and the Tories in third place.

    However, what is clear is that UKIP has built up massive expectations. Anything less than first place will look like a disappointment, and first place is already 'in the price'.

    The result will be primarily compared to the result last time, whatever the expectations. The difference from the expectations may be the caveat, however.
    The expectation that Farage & co have built up is that they will win. Anything less is failure. Poll findings like the YouGov one only add to the pressure.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    HurstLlama said:

    *Checks emails*

    Nope, nothing from the Conservative Party. So who gets invited to these on-line meetings? How can they affect the voting intention of people that aren't invited?

    My mum got one of those. She's on the Conservatives.com junk mail list, and lives in an area with local elections this year.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Got one last week from Dave but I worry. He sent it at nearly one o'clock in the morning. The man needs sleep for heaven's sake; he has a country to run.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    So we send UKIP leaflets back to their freepost address, we register for the Con conference call with the number of the Australian speaking clock, what's the appropriate etiquette for communicating with Lib and Lab?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    He asked me to listen to him but it is my daughter's birthday so, sorry Dave, too busy.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    edmundintokyo said:

    So we send UKIP leaflets back to their freepost address, we register for the Con conference call with the number of the Australian speaking clock, what's the appropriate etiquette for communicating with Lib and Lab?

    I get emails from those nice people at Labour as well. Their approach seems to be ask questions with a big button below it, which leads to a set-piece page. They used to have two buttons, one for agreement and disagreement, and it was always fun to click on the 'disagree' button.

    It's particularly cr@p as it pretends to want to hear your opinion, but then argues with you if you pick the 'wrong' one.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    DavidL said:

    He asked me to listen to him but it is my daughter's birthday so, sorry Dave, too busy.

    If they're doing the Big Data thing right he'll just be calling to say Happy Birthday to her.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    FPT

    JosiasJessop asked:

    "Which reports on probable costs, may I ask?"

    The Chairman of HS2 for a start who on March 16th said that the current cost estimate for HS2 is £50.1 billion.

    He was of course being a bit disingenuous as that was £50.1 billion at 2011 prices, not taking into account inflation.

    So since the head of the whole project apparently agrees with me I think the 'upwards of £50 billion' comment I made which you objected to is not unreasonable.

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @JosiasJessop

    " How am I supposed to listen to Dave as I create a spinach and feta pie?"

    Sorry, but I read that and immediatley thought of this song:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGFpVN2xwXU

    Apologies, Mr. J, but feta and spinach pie, what's wrong with bangers and mash.

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    HurstLlama said:

    *Checks emails*

    Nope, nothing from the Conservative Party. So who gets invited to these on-line meetings? How can they affect the voting intention of people that aren't invited?

    The only logical explanation I can think of for Cameron is he's in the grip of a Lab supporting Svengali figure so maybe the email list was LibLab supporters so they could gather in rooms with it on speaker phone and have a laugh.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    @MikeSmithson Have you received the other e-mail, you know the one from Michael Green ?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2014
    edmundintokyo said:

    what's the appropriate etiquette for communicating with Lib?

    A seance?

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    HurstLlama said:

    @JosiasJessop

    " How am I supposed to listen to Dave as I create a spinach and feta pie?"

    Sorry, but I read that and immediatley thought of this song:

    (snip)

    Apologies, Mr. J, but feta and spinach pie, what's wrong with bangers and mash.

    Mrs J was a vegetarian when I met her. I've managed to convert her to a pescetarian (mainly because she was ill), but I doubt I'll ever get her to convert to bangers and mash!

    She'll make them for me, though. And Turkish meatballs. Yum!
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Dave doesn't love me...no invite.. *sniff*
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    MaxPB said:

    Wow. Mega win for the Chancellor, Pfizer to move its HQ to the UK after purchasing/merging with AsteaZeneca. That's got to hurt for the US. Losing a high profile company to the UK like that is dangerous for them. It is time for the US to remove their tax claims on global and non-US profits for US based companies.

    It's the 1980's all over again - booming Britain - ironic that the SNP want to leave just as the good times are back.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    FPT

    JosiasJessop asked:

    "Which reports on probable costs, may I ask?"

    The Chairman of HS2 for a start who on March 16th said that the current cost estimate for HS2 is £50.1 billion.

    He was of course being a bit disingenuous as that was £50.1 billion at 2011 prices, not taking into account inflation.

    So since the head of the whole project apparently agrees with me I think the 'upwards of £50 billion' comment I made which you objected to is not unreasonable.

    1) That includes all the contingency and the train costs. I.e. the worst possible case. I'm still confident it could be done for around, or even under, £35 billion, not including train costs.

    2) AIUI, inflation is rarely (never?) included in such project costs. Why do you include it for this one?

    3) You said 'upwards of'. Given the vast contingency priced of £14.4 bn priced into the total scheme cost of £42.6bn, why do you think it's reasonable to add more?

    Now, which reports have you read?
  • pinball13pinball13 Posts: 83
    Is everyone washing their hair? Or is anyone here going to register, with their own phone number? I wasn't even invited.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    pinball13 said:

    Is everyone washing their hair? Or is anyone here going to register, with their own phone number? I wasn't even invited.

    In the immortal words of Peter Cook: "I fear I will be watching television that night."
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    One phone call and Mike is already softening !
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    TGOHF said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow. Mega win for the Chancellor, Pfizer to move its HQ to the UK after purchasing/merging with AsteaZeneca. That's got to hurt for the US. Losing a high profile company to the UK like that is dangerous for them. It is time for the US to remove their tax claims on global and non-US profits for US based companies.

    It's the 1980's all over again - booming Britain - ironic that the SNP want to leave just as the good times are back.
    Dream on, as said by Mr Brooke earlier , remember Cadbury's. Stick a brass plate in London and move all other real jobs out , big win for UK.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    FPT
    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Blog: Alex Salmond admires Putin: one more way in which he's the Scottish Nigel Farage http://t.co/nBBmA5Q2TN

    I see the writer is as big a liar as you Scott, though he at least writes his own lies. I see he gets lots of support in the comments from every party viewpoint and country in the UK on the crapness of his article and how dire it is.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    edmundintokyo said:

    DavidL said:

    He asked me to listen to him but it is my daughter's birthday so, sorry Dave, too busy.

    If they're doing the Big Data thing right he'll just be calling to say Happy Birthday to her.
    Well that would have been nice. But I understand he wants to talk about the EU. For half an hour. I mean, as one of my children once said to me when asked if they needed to discuss sex education any more: "it's just not that interesting."

    Interesting and innovative idea though.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    And yet – and here we discover an illuminating difference in standard – it remains the case that the SNP find Britain’s aspirations to “Great Power” status both ridiculous and distasteful. The UK clings to faded imperial “glory” and looks absurd. It should face reality and accept the world has changed. The world has moved on and so should Britain. Come in Colonel Blimp, your time was up long ago.

    Fine. If that’s the sort of thing you like it’s the sort of thing you like. But Putin’s policy – both domestic and abroad – is designed to reassert Russia’s place as a Great Power. The collapse of the Soviet Union – that is, of Russia’s internal empire – was a calamity and if the USSR cannot be revived Russian pride can and Putin’s Eurasian Union, the next best thing to the USSR, will have to do what it can to compensate for that tragedy [sic].
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/04/alex-salmonds-strange-but-revealing-admiration-for-vladimir-putin/
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    JosiasJessop said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    FPT

    JosiasJessop asked:

    "Which reports on probable costs, may I ask?"

    The Chairman of HS2 for a start who on March 16th said that the current cost estimate for HS2 is £50.1 billion.

    He was of course being a bit disingenuous as that was £50.1 billion at 2011 prices, not taking into account inflation.

    So since the head of the whole project apparently agrees with me I think the 'upwards of £50 billion' comment I made which you objected to is not unreasonable.

    1) That includes all the contingency and the train costs. I.e. the worst possible case. I'm still confident it could be done for around, or even under, £35 billion, not including train costs.

    2) AIUI, inflation is rarely (never?) included in such project costs. Why do you include it for this one?

    3) You said 'upwards of'. Given the vast contingency priced of £14.4 bn priced into the total scheme cost of £42.6bn, why do you think it's reasonable to add more?

    Now, which reports have you read?
    So you don't believe the report by the Institute of Economic Affairs and you don't believe the report by the Chairman of the whole project. I am struggling to know what you would believe if you can so easily disregard those two reports.

    Of course you are also aware that the only way Higgins was able to keep the costs at around £50 billion was by reducing the scope of the project so clearly the contingency fund already looks to be under threat.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    @Scott_P - as long as Salmond does not ride a horse bare chested......
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    FPT

    JosiasJessop asked:

    "Which reports on probable costs, may I ask?"

    The Chairman of HS2 for a start who on March 16th said that the current cost estimate for HS2 is £50.1 billion.

    He was of course being a bit disingenuous as that was £50.1 billion at 2011 prices, not taking into account inflation.

    So since the head of the whole project apparently agrees with me I think the 'upwards of £50 billion' comment I made which you objected to is not unreasonable.

    1) That includes all the contingency and the train costs. I.e. the worst possible case. I'm still confident it could be done for around, or even under, £35 billion, not including train costs.

    2) AIUI, inflation is rarely (never?) included in such project costs. Why do you include it for this one?

    3) You said 'upwards of'. Given the vast contingency priced of £14.4 bn priced into the total scheme cost of £42.6bn, why do you think it's reasonable to add more?

    Now, which reports have you read?
    So you don't believe the report by the Institute of Economic Affairs and you don't believe the report by the Chairman of the whole project. I am struggling to know what you would believe if you can so easily disregard those two reports.

    Of course you are also aware that the only way Higgins was able to keep the costs at around £50 billion was by reducing the scope of the project so clearly the contingency fund already looks to be under threat.

    If you believe the IEA report then there's no hope. It included Crossrail 2, ffs. Please explain why that is valid and, if you think it is, why such 'additions' should not be added to other infrastructure projects. Including ones you may favour.

    I've explained the costings and contingency values.

    Have you read any other report aside from the IEA one?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    edited April 2014
    Scott_P said:

    And yet – and here we discover an illuminating difference in standard – it remains the case that the SNP find Britain’s aspirations to “Great Power” status both ridiculous and distasteful. The UK clings to faded imperial “glory” and looks absurd. It should face reality and accept the world has changed. The world has moved on and so should Britain. Come in Colonel Blimp, your time was up long ago.

    Fine. If that’s the sort of thing you like it’s the sort of thing you like. But Putin’s policy – both domestic and abroad – is designed to reassert Russia’s place as a Great Power. The collapse of the Soviet Union – that is, of Russia’s internal empire – was a calamity and if the USSR cannot be revived Russian pride can and Putin’s Eurasian Union, the next best thing to the USSR, will have to do what it can to compensate for that tragedy [sic].
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/04/alex-salmonds-strange-but-revealing-admiration-for-vladimir-putin/

    How desperate can you loonies get

    PS , even given it is by Massie who is excellent and is actually a very good review of the topic. He gives an intelligent viewpoint and is nothing like the rabid dog stuff that most of the unionists post. He is one Tory I really like , unfortunately not enough to balance the normal turnips like Scott.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    CarlottaVance said:

    @Scott_P - as long as Salmond does not ride a horse bare chested......

    Carlotta, admit it you are secretly wishing he would
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Interesting contrast: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10792923/Francois-Hollandes-intervention-in-Alstom-takeover-is-de-rigueur-in-France.html

    France are desperately trying to stop the Americans from taking over Alstom and looking for help from the Germans instead.

    Is it any wonder that the UK is the largest recipient of foreign investment in the EU?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    And yet – and here we discover an illuminating difference in standard – it remains the case that the SNP find Britain’s aspirations to “Great Power” status both ridiculous and distasteful. The UK clings to faded imperial “glory” and looks absurd. It should face reality and accept the world has changed. The world has moved on and so should Britain. Come in Colonel Blimp, your time was up long ago.

    Fine. If that’s the sort of thing you like it’s the sort of thing you like. But Putin’s policy – both domestic and abroad – is designed to reassert Russia’s place as a Great Power. The collapse of the Soviet Union – that is, of Russia’s internal empire – was a calamity and if the USSR cannot be revived Russian pride can and Putin’s Eurasian Union, the next best thing to the USSR, will have to do what it can to compensate for that tragedy [sic].
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/04/alex-salmonds-strange-but-revealing-admiration-for-vladimir-putin/
    How desperate can you loonies getIt's not just the two leaders. The activists of both parties also adopt an eerily similar tone of voice on the internet: that of the school bully, sarcastic, turned on by cruelty, and always, always playing for their gallery.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Clifford guilty on all 4 of the seven counts read so far....
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Clifford, the dirty old man
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    James Forsyth tweets: At Ukip SE launch, Diane James says 'local manipulation of the postal vote' cost her victory in the Eastleigh by-election. Big accusation
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    Councillor suspended from Lib Dems in Cambridge pending investigation:

    http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Colin-Rosenstiel-suspended-from-Lib-Dem-group-on-Cambridge-City-Council-over-child-assault-charge-but-will-still-be-on-ballot-paper-for-party-in-Mays-elections-20140428060245.htm
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @DavidL
    "Is it any wonder that the UK is the largest recipient of foreign investment in the EU? "

    "UK 'a tax haven for multinationals'"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27187398

    Nope, and with our handy links to other "tax havens" in the Caribbean, and a casual attitude to various "schemes", London will soon be the Chicago of the north.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    JosiasJessop said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    FPT

    JosiasJessop asked:

    "Which reports on probable costs, may I ask?"

    The Chairman of HS2 for a start who on March 16th said that the current cost estimate for HS2 is £50.1 billion.

    He was of course being a bit disingenuous as that was £50.1 billion at 2011 prices, not taking into account inflation.

    So since the head of the whole project apparently agrees with me I think the 'upwards of £50 billion' comment I made which you objected to is not unreasonable.

    1) That includes all the contingency and the train costs. I.e. the worst possible case. I'm still confident it could be done for around, or even under, £35 billion, not including train costs.

    2) AIUI, inflation is rarely (never?) included in such project costs. Why do you include it for this one?

    3) You said 'upwards of'. Given the vast contingency priced of £14.4 bn priced into the total scheme cost of £42.6bn, why do you think it's reasonable to add more?

    Now, which reports have you read?
    So you don't believe the report by the Institute of Economic Affairs and you don't believe the report by the Chairman of the whole project. I am struggling to know what you would believe if you can so easily disregard those two reports.

    Of course you are also aware that the only way Higgins was able to keep the costs at around £50 billion was by reducing the scope of the project so clearly the contingency fund already looks to be under threat.

    If you believe the IEA report then there's no hope. It included Crossrail 2, ffs. Please explain why that is valid and, if you think it is, why such 'additions' should not be added to other infrastructure projects. Including ones you may favour.

    I've explained the costings and contingency values.

    Have you read any other report aside from the IEA one?
    Which IEA report the one from 2011, the one from last September or the one from today? I have read all three.

    And yes I also read the cost/benefits report by the KPMG which is so partial and laughable in its assumptions of the benefits as to be utterly useless. And it was comprehensively trashed as such when it came out.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    CarlottaVance said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    And yet – and here we discover an illuminating difference in standard – it remains the case that the SNP find Britain’s aspirations to “Great Power” status both ridiculous and distasteful. The UK clings to faded imperial “glory” and looks absurd. It should face reality and accept the world has changed. The world has moved on and so should Britain. Come in Colonel Blimp, your time was up long ago.

    Fine. If that’s the sort of thing you like it’s the sort of thing you like. But Putin’s policy – both domestic and abroad – is designed to reassert Russia’s place as a Great Power. The collapse of the Soviet Union – that is, of Russia’s internal empire – was a calamity and if the USSR cannot be revived Russian pride can and Putin’s Eurasian Union, the next best thing to the USSR, will have to do what it can to compensate for that tragedy [sic].
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/04/alex-salmonds-strange-but-revealing-admiration-for-vladimir-putin/
    How desperate can you loonies get
    It's not just the two leaders. The activists of both parties also adopt an eerily similar tone of voice on the internet: that of the school bully, sarcastic, turned on by cruelty, and always, always playing for their gallery.


    Hopefully you do not think I am an activist rather than just Mr Angry.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    dyedwoolie said:

    Clifford, the dirty old man

    Guilty of 8 charges of indecent assault, including some against 15 year old girl, not guilty on two, no verdict on 11th charge.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    FPT

    JosiasJessop asked:

    "Which reports on probable costs, may I ask?"

    The Chairman of HS2 for a start who on March 16th said that the current cost estimate for HS2 is £50.1 billion.

    He was of course being a bit disingenuous as that was £50.1 billion at 2011 prices, not taking into account inflation.

    So since the head of the whole project apparently agrees with me I think the 'upwards of £50 billion' comment I made which you objected to is not unreasonable.

    1) That includes all the contingency and the train costs. I.e. the worst possible case. I'm still confident it could be done for around, or even under, £35 billion, not including train costs.

    2) AIUI, inflation is rarely (never?) included in such project costs. Why do you include it for this one?

    3) You said 'upwards of'. Given the vast contingency priced of £14.4 bn priced into the total scheme cost of £42.6bn, why do you think it's reasonable to add more?

    Now, which reports have you read?
    So you don't believe the report by the Institute of Economic Affairs and you don't believe the report by the Chairman of the whole project. I am struggling to know what you would believe if you can so easily disregard those two reports.

    Of course you are also aware that the only way Higgins was able to keep the costs at around £50 billion was by reducing the scope of the project so clearly the contingency fund already looks to be under threat.

    If you believe the IEA report then there's no hope. It included Crossrail 2, ffs. Please explain why that is valid and, if you think it is, why such 'additions' should not be added to other infrastructure projects. Including ones you may favour.

    I've explained the costings and contingency values.

    Have you read any other report aside from the IEA one?
    Which IEA report the one from 2011, the one from last September or the one from today? I have read all three.

    And yes I also read the cost/benefits report by the KPMG which is so partial and laughable in its assumptions of the benefits as to be utterly useless. And it was comprehensively trashed as such when it came out.
    All three IEA reports are problematic. The £80 billion one being laughably so. Do you at least admit that?

    Are you also aware that there may be a cost to not doing anything?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL
    "Is it any wonder that the UK is the largest recipient of foreign investment in the EU? "

    "UK 'a tax haven for multinationals'"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27187398

    Nope, and with our handy links to other "tax havens" in the Caribbean, and a casual attitude to various "schemes", London will soon be the Chicago of the north.

    Biggest laundromat in the world, what a claim to fame.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    It's 'have a go at Salmond' day (for a change):

    Now it's the Left's turn:

    Scottish first minister Alex Salmond likes to portray himself as a champion of equality. Commenting on the recent promotion of two women to ministerial posts in the Scottish government, Salmond said the promotions “underline our [the SNP's] commitment to equality, to pensions and to helping the young people of Scotland into the workplace”.
    Salmond also likes to posit the SNP as a kind of left-wing alternative to Labour north of the border.

    Strange, then, to find the SNP leader cosying up to the ultra-conservative Russian leader Vladimir Putin and working alongside a man who led a campaign to keep Section 28, the homophobic piece of Tory legislation which forbade councils from “promoting homosexuality”.

    http://www.leftfootforward.org/2014/04/alex-salmond-champion-of-equality-not/
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    CarlottaVance said:

    dyedwoolie said:

    Clifford, the dirty old man

    Guilty of 8 charges of indecent assault, including some against 15 year old girl, not guilty on two, no verdict on 11th charge.

    Good. Repugnant old ambulance chaser. Always enjoyable seeing people like him banged up.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    dyedwoolie said:

    Clifford, the dirty old man

    Is there anyone Max can call upon to spin this to the media as ‘a career enhancing moment’ - Or is this a case of ’physician heal thy self’
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2014
    Salmond a la Putin:

    Twitter.com/alexmassie/status/460769318343417858/photo/1
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Putin on his way to meet Alex after independence.
    http://tinyurl.com/lngfkob
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    edited April 2014
    CarlottaVance said:

    Salmond a la Putin:

    twitter.com/alexmassie/status/460769318343417858/photo/1

    LOL
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    SimonStClare said:

    dyedwoolie said:

    Clifford, the dirty old man

    Is there anyone Max can call upon to spin this to the media as ‘a career enhancing moment’ - Or is this a case of ’physician heal thy self’
    There's that Clarence bloke the McCanns used, but I doubt he's want to be associated with a sex pest
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    That's to say, he definitely wouldnt
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    dyedwoolie said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    dyedwoolie said:

    Clifford, the dirty old man

    Guilty of 8 charges of indecent assault, including some against 15 year old girl, not guilty on two, no verdict on 11th charge.

    Good. Repugnant old ambulance chaser. Always enjoyable seeing people like him banged up.
    I'm sure the CPS is heaving a sigh of relief - if another high profile 'celebrity' trial had resulted in acquittal they would have faced more pressure 'not to rock the boat'.....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited April 2014
    CarlottaVance said:

    It's 'have a go at Salmond' day (for a change):

    Now it's the Left's turn:

    Scottish first minister Alex Salmond likes to portray himself as a champion of equality. Commenting on the recent promotion of two women to ministerial posts in the Scottish government, Salmond said the promotions “underline our [the SNP's] commitment to equality, to pensions and to helping the young people of Scotland into the workplace”.
    Salmond also likes to posit the SNP as a kind of left-wing alternative to Labour north of the border.

    Strange, then, to find the SNP leader cosying up to the ultra-conservative Russian leader Vladimir Putin and working alongside a man who led a campaign to keep Section 28, the homophobic piece of Tory legislation which forbade councils from “promoting homosexuality”.

    http://www.leftfootforward.org/2014/04/alex-salmond-champion-of-equality-not/

    Typical idiotic left. Have they not cottoned on to the fact (cf UKIP) that the more "the establishment" criticises mavericks the more support hardens?

    For Scotland I have no idea of the outcome of the vote, as a conservative Conservative I would vote for the status quo and therefore project my own feelings onto the indyref in thinking No will edge it, but I am not an 18-30yr old Scottish patriot who might very much enjoy the thrill of voting "Yes".
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    CarlottaVance said:

    dyedwoolie said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    dyedwoolie said:

    Clifford, the dirty old man

    Guilty of 8 charges of indecent assault, including some against 15 year old girl, not guilty on two, no verdict on 11th charge.

    Good. Repugnant old ambulance chaser. Always enjoyable seeing people like him banged up.
    I'm sure the CPS is heaving a sigh of relief - if another high profile 'celebrity' trial had resulted in acquittal they would have faced more pressure 'not to rock the boat'.....
    Quite, good to see Evansgate hasn't stopped actual perverts from being done
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    And yet – and here we discover an illuminating difference in standard – it remains the case that the SNP find Britain’s aspirations to “Great Power” status both ridiculous and distasteful. The UK clings to faded imperial “glory” and looks absurd. It should face reality and accept the world has changed. The world has moved on and so should Britain. Come in Colonel Blimp, your time was up long ago.

    Fine. If that’s the sort of thing you like it’s the sort of thing you like. But Putin’s policy – both domestic and abroad – is designed to reassert Russia’s place as a Great Power. The collapse of the Soviet Union – that is, of Russia’s internal empire – was a calamity and if the USSR cannot be revived Russian pride can and Putin’s Eurasian Union, the next best thing to the USSR, will have to do what it can to compensate for that tragedy [sic].
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/04/alex-salmonds-strange-but-revealing-admiration-for-vladimir-putin/
    How desperate can you loonies get
    It's not just the two leaders. The activists of both parties also adopt an eerily similar tone of voice on the internet: that of the school bully, sarcastic, turned on by cruelty, and always, always playing for their gallery.
    Hopefully you do not think I am an activist rather than just Mr Angry.Mr Angry suits you to a tee.....and it also appears to be a requirement for (many) activists!

  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Are you fit to be British? Take the Ukip test.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/04/are-you-fit-to-be-british-take-the-ukip-test/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=are-you-fit-to-be-british-take-the-ukip-test&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Clifford LOL !
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    "In a low turnout election like the Euros the Tories can really enhance their position by getting their more marginal voters to turnout"

    Isn't this more likely to cause problems for the LDs in the local elections, than UKIP in the EU Parliament ones?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    edited April 2014
    CarlottaVance said:

    Salmond a la Putin:

    Twitter.com/alexmassie/status/460769318343417858/photo/1

    Be a lot cheaper for Holyrood to get him a horse than have to meet his taxi expenses....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Salmond a la Putin:

    twitter.com/alexmassie/status/460769318343417858/photo/1

    LOL
    There's more:

    www.twitter.com/GeneralBoles/status/460769602025177088/photo/1
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited April 2014
    Good afternoon.

    I don't know what was written earlier, but if Mike Smithson, "On the face of it this is quite appealing and my guess is that it will get a good response rate," thinks that he will get a chance to speak to Cammo personally, then he is more of a fantasist than many of us.

    Cammo would have to be on the phone 24 hrs a day, without food or sleep, to speak to just 144 people a day, for just 10 minutes.

    It's a load of phony bollocks and OGH has fallen for it. I'm sure many will fall for it; at first. Only to be doubly disappointed and let down when the truth perculates through their befuddled minds. Oh joy! :D

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    CarlottaVance said:

    malcolmg said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    And yet – and here we discover an illuminating difference in standard – it remains the case that the SNP find Britain’s aspirations to “Great Power” status both ridiculous and distasteful. The UK clings to faded imperial “glory” and looks absurd. It should face reality and accept the world has changed. The world has moved on and so should Britain. Come in Colonel Blimp, your time was up long ago.

    Fine. If that’s the sort of thing you like it’s the sort of thing you like. But Putin’s policy – both domestic and abroad – is designed to reassert Russia’s place as a Great Power. The collapse of the Soviet Union – that is, of Russia’s internal empire – was a calamity and if the USSR cannot be revived Russian pride can and Putin’s Eurasian Union, the next best thing to the USSR, will have to do what it can to compensate for that tragedy [sic].
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/04/alex-salmonds-strange-but-revealing-admiration-for-vladimir-putin/
    How desperate can you loonies get
    It's not just the two leaders. The activists of both parties also adopt an eerily similar tone of voice on the internet: that of the school bully, sarcastic, turned on by cruelty, and always, always playing for their gallery.
    Hopefully you do not think I am an activist rather than just Mr Angry.
    Mr Angry suits you to a tee.....and it also appears to be a requirement for (many) activists!



    In real life I am a big pussycat, it is just a bit of fun so do not take me seriously , unless I am being nice.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Pulpstar said:

    Clifford LOL !

    Clifford was granted conditional bail but told by the judge that that should not be taken as an indication of the sentence that will be passed on Friday.

    Heavy hint that it will be custodial?

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/28/max-clifford-guilty-indecent-assault-teenage-girls
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited April 2014
    @MikeK – I take it from your petulant response you were also not invited ; )
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    CarlottaVance said:

    malcolmg said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Salmond a la Putin:

    twitter.com/alexmassie/status/460769318343417858/photo/1

    LOL
    There's more:

    www.twitter.com/GeneralBoles/status/460769602025177088/photo/1
    I do like Massie, intelligent and has a good sense of humour , not up himself as much as the majority of the dullard journalists who think they are great but are in fact cretins.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    I fear he has a point:

    If Ed Miliband is the Union’s saviour then the Union is doomed
    With apologies to John Rentoul, Can Ed Miliband save the Union? is a question to which the answer is God help us all.

    I admit to a blind spot vis a vis the Labour leader: Looks like Gussie Fink-Nottle, thinks like a Marxist Madeline Bassett. Clever enough in a droopy kind of way but, ultimately, a gawd-help-us kind of fellow.

    I wasn’t very impressed last time Mr Miliband came to Scotland and so I wasn’t inclined to be impressed by his most recent trip to Glasgow. Which is dandy because I wasn’t.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/04/if-ed-miliband-is-the-unions-saviour-then-the-union-is-doomed/
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    volcanopete said:

    Are you fit to be British? Take the Ukip test.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/04/are-you-fit-to-be-british-take-the-ukip-test/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=are-you-fit-to-be-british-take-the-ukip-test&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    One thing is true in all the above, and that is Nick Cohen has gone a trifle crazy and is frothing at the mouth like one infected with Rabies. Ah, I see now! Old Nick has been bitten by UKIP. LOL
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    MikeK said:

    Good afternoon.

    I don't know what was written earlier, but if Mike Smithson, "On the face of it this is quite appealing and my guess is that it will get a good response rate," thinks that he will get a chance to speak to Cammo personally, then he is more of a fantasist than many of us.

    Cammo would have to be on the phone 24 hrs a day, without food or sleep, to speak to just 144 people a day, for just 10 minutes.

    It's a load of phony bollocks and OGH has fallen for it. I'm sure many will fall for it; at first. Only to be doubly disappointed and let down when the truth perculates through their befuddled minds. Oh joy! :D

    Yeah, like all those people that go to QT and don't get to ask a question, they all flock to UKIP in disgust
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,054
    MikeK said:

    Good afternoon.

    I don't know what was written earlier, but if Mike Smithson, "On the face of it this is quite appealing and my guess is that it will get a good response rate," thinks that he will get a chance to speak to Cammo personally, then he is more of a fantasist than many of us.

    Cammo would have to be on the phone 24 hrs a day, without food or sleep, to speak to just 144 people a day, for just 10 minutes.

    It's a load of phony bollocks and OGH has fallen for it. I'm sure many will fall for it; at first. Only to be doubly disappointed and let down when the truth perculates through their befuddled minds. Oh joy! :D

    I guess you've never heard of conference calling before...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    malcolmg said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Salmond a la Putin:

    twitter.com/alexmassie/status/460769318343417858/photo/1

    LOL
    There's more:

    www.twitter.com/GeneralBoles/status/460769602025177088/photo/1
    I do like Massie, intelligent and has a good sense of humour , not up himself as much as the majority of the dullard journalists who think they are great but are in fact cretins.
    You'll probably like the article I've just linked to then!

This discussion has been closed.