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Nigel Farage hasn’t wargamed his by-election very well – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,253
edited 3:10PM in General
Nigel Farage hasn’t wargamed his by-election very well – politicalbetting.com

3 in 4 Brits (74%) state that the parliamentary standards commissioner should be investigating whether Nigel Farage leader broke parliamentary rules ?73% say investigation should continue even if Farage wins the Clacton by-election ? https://tinyurl.com/5n8er7mc

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 34,560
    Do the other 27% think (as I do) that Parliament should be continuing to investigate the behaviour of MPs even when they are delaying said scrutiny by creating a pointless by-election...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,381
    Is anyone doing a poll for Clacton itself?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,332
    Sir Sadiq Khan has been made a peer by Sir Keir Starmer.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,756
    eek said:

    Do the other 27% think (as I do) that Parliament should be continuing to investigate the behaviour of MPs even when they are delaying said scrutiny by creating a pointless by-election...

    Public backing for parliamentary standards investigation

    · 16% think Nigel Farage is right to resign as an MP and stand for re-election to parliament in the resulting by-election. 16% think he should have continued as an MP. 54% think he should resign and leave parliament.

    · 74% state the standards commissioner should be investigating whether Mr. Farage broke rules by failing to declare a £5m gift received from a Reform UK donor before his election.

    · 73% of the public believe the investigation should continue even if Farage wins the upcoming by-election, compared to 15% who think it should not continue in these circumstances.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,381
    "· 16% think Nigel Farage is right to resign as an MP and stand for re-election to parliament in the resulting by-election. 16% think he should have continued as an MP. 54% think he should resign and leave parliament."

    What percentage think that he should resign, leave parliament and conduct the first manned landing on Uranus?
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,574
    I thought all the Visa management/sponsorship stuff had been clamped down on and now it was just high skilled people via regular channels.

    “ Visa sponsor opportunity at a PREMIER location. 🛬

    JVR Stores — a Premier shop in Cwmavon, Port Talbot — is now a licensed UK "Skilled Worker" visa sponsor, added to the Home Office register last month.

    (Home Office register; Companies House 10442538)

    Link in the comments 👇”

    https://x.com/based_data_uk/status/2077641755994800414?s=61
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,336
    Can the Standards committee not carry on if Nige isn't an MP or something. Is that some rule they have created for themselves ? Why not just plough on.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,861
    His political success over the years, as an outsider not subject to the scrutiny that conventional politicians attract, presumably blinded him to the obvious - that once elected to Parliament, he's just another politician subject to the same political gravity as the rest of them ?

    Or he's just an overweeningly arrogant chuff like his idol Trump.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,332
    Taz said:

    I thought all the Visa management/sponsorship stuff had been clamped down on and now it was just high skilled people via regular channels.

    “ Visa sponsor opportunity at a PREMIER location. 🛬

    JVR Stores — a Premier shop in Cwmavon, Port Talbot — is now a licensed UK "Skilled Worker" visa sponsor, added to the Home Office register last month.

    (Home Office register; Companies House 10442538)

    Link in the comments 👇”

    https://x.com/based_data_uk/status/2077641755994800414?s=61

    Do the Home Office not do any checks?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,861
    I presume even Dura disapproves of this ?
    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/2077714480461476019
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,919

    Is anyone doing a poll for Clacton itself?

    We need a Klacton Klaxon...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,381
    Pulpstar said:

    Can the Standards committee not carry on if Nige isn't an MP or something. Is that some rule they have created for themselves ? Why not just plough on.

    Especially since Parliament is sovereign and a majority of MPs would vote for that - certainly in the face of the publicity that voting against Resignation To Escape Investigation In The Style of The Police Farce would engender.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,336

    Taz said:

    I thought all the Visa management/sponsorship stuff had been clamped down on and now it was just high skilled people via regular channels.

    “ Visa sponsor opportunity at a PREMIER location. 🛬

    JVR Stores — a Premier shop in Cwmavon, Port Talbot — is now a licensed UK "Skilled Worker" visa sponsor, added to the Home Office register last month.

    (Home Office register; Companies House 10442538)

    Link in the comments 👇”

    https://x.com/based_data_uk/status/2077641755994800414?s=61

    Do the Home Office not do any checks?
    Shortage of Turkish barbers.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,176

    Sir Sadiq Khan has been made a peer by Sir Keir Starmer.

    Starmer's FU to the Manchester Mayor?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,681
    Taz said:

    I thought all the Visa management/sponsorship stuff had been clamped down on and now it was just high skilled people via regular channels.

    “ Visa sponsor opportunity at a PREMIER location. 🛬

    JVR Stores — a Premier shop in Cwmavon, Port Talbot — is now a licensed UK "Skilled Worker" visa sponsor, added to the Home Office register last month.

    (Home Office register; Companies House 10442538)

    Link in the comments 👇”

    https://x.com/based_data_uk/status/2077641755994800414?s=61

    Franchises are a weak link. The central office does the paperwork, or provides instructions... If the shop were independent, they never would.

    Reportedly more than 50% of Dominoes Pizza franchises have at least one worker on a skilled worked visa.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,336
    carnforth said:

    Taz said:

    I thought all the Visa management/sponsorship stuff had been clamped down on and now it was just high skilled people via regular channels.

    “ Visa sponsor opportunity at a PREMIER location. 🛬

    JVR Stores — a Premier shop in Cwmavon, Port Talbot — is now a licensed UK "Skilled Worker" visa sponsor, added to the Home Office register last month.

    (Home Office register; Companies House 10442538)

    Link in the comments 👇”

    https://x.com/based_data_uk/status/2077641755994800414?s=61

    Franchises are a weak link. The central office does the paperwork, or provides instructions... If the shop were independent, they never would.

    Reportedly more than 50% of Dominoes Pizza franchises have at least one worker on a skilled worked visa.
    Hold on you're saying somewhere is a 'weak link' in the system because someone is capable of reading and filling in a gov't document ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,919

    "· 16% think Nigel Farage is right to resign as an MP and stand for re-election to parliament in the resulting by-election. 16% think he should have continued as an MP. 54% think he should resign and leave parliament."

    What percentage think that he should resign, leave parliament and conduct the first manned landing on Uranus?

    I hope the 54% vote that way in Clacton.

    Cheerio, cheerio, cheerio.....
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,681
    Pulpstar said:

    carnforth said:

    Taz said:

    I thought all the Visa management/sponsorship stuff had been clamped down on and now it was just high skilled people via regular channels.

    “ Visa sponsor opportunity at a PREMIER location. 🛬

    JVR Stores — a Premier shop in Cwmavon, Port Talbot — is now a licensed UK "Skilled Worker" visa sponsor, added to the Home Office register last month.

    (Home Office register; Companies House 10442538)

    Link in the comments 👇”

    https://x.com/based_data_uk/status/2077641755994800414?s=61

    Franchises are a weak link. The central office does the paperwork, or provides instructions... If the shop were independent, they never would.

    Reportedly more than 50% of Dominoes Pizza franchises have at least one worker on a skilled worked visa.
    Hold on you're saying somewhere is a 'weak link' in the system because someone is capable of reading and filling in a gov't document ?
    It's a real barrier. It shouldn't be - we should have strong rules and low barriers. But we have weak rules and high barriers, it seems.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,176
    Nigelb said:

    Sir Sadiq Khan has been made a peer by Sir Keir Starmer.

    Starmer's FU to the Manchester Mayor?
    Well it would be a bit awkward had he elevated Burnham to the peerage.
    Any other names yet? Starmer's wife's hairdresser or scion of the KGB?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,166

    Nigelb said:

    Sir Sadiq Khan has been made a peer by Sir Keir Starmer.

    Starmer's FU to the Manchester Mayor?
    Well it would be a bit awkward had he elevated Burnham to the peerage.
    Any other names yet? Starmer's wife's hairdresser or scion of the KGB?
    Some bloke I bumped into in the mess the other night called Bernard.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,756
    A bra walks into a bar and asks for a beer.

    The bartender says “I can’t serve you, you’re off your tits”.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,370
    carnforth said:

    Pulpstar said:

    carnforth said:

    Taz said:

    I thought all the Visa management/sponsorship stuff had been clamped down on and now it was just high skilled people via regular channels.

    “ Visa sponsor opportunity at a PREMIER location. 🛬

    JVR Stores — a Premier shop in Cwmavon, Port Talbot — is now a licensed UK "Skilled Worker" visa sponsor, added to the Home Office register last month.

    (Home Office register; Companies House 10442538)

    Link in the comments 👇”

    https://x.com/based_data_uk/status/2077641755994800414?s=61

    Franchises are a weak link. The central office does the paperwork, or provides instructions... If the shop were independent, they never would.

    Reportedly more than 50% of Dominoes Pizza franchises have at least one worker on a skilled worked visa.
    Hold on you're saying somewhere is a 'weak link' in the system because someone is capable of reading and filling in a gov't document ?
    It's a real barrier. It shouldn't be - we should have strong rules and low barriers. But we have weak rules and high barriers, it seems.
    Pretty much anyone in the behaviour management business will tell you- simple and charitable rules that you have the means to enforce are much better than strict rules on paper which the enforcement system can't back up.

    And by the time you are reduced to making implausibly terrible threats, it's already too late.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,332
    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,166

    Taz said:

    I thought all the Visa management/sponsorship stuff had been clamped down on and now it was just high skilled people via regular channels.

    “ Visa sponsor opportunity at a PREMIER location. 🛬

    JVR Stores — a Premier shop in Cwmavon, Port Talbot — is now a licensed UK "Skilled Worker" visa sponsor, added to the Home Office register last month.

    (Home Office register; Companies House 10442538)

    Link in the comments 👇”

    https://x.com/based_data_uk/status/2077641755994800414?s=61

    Do the Home Office not do any checks?
    Certainly not.

    As good British people they use cheques.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,370
    On topic, who are the 14 percent of the survey who think that Farage shouldn't even be investigated?

    Unfortunately for Nigel's little caper, that figure barely moves if he wins.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,236
    How do you make a movie about modern-day politics without having ten tons of poo flung at you by culture warriors?

    Paul Greengrass has made a film about the Peasants' Revolt of 1381. Doctor Who alumnus Andrew Garfield is Wat Tyler. It's called "The Uprising" and here's the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVkrhHebz1Q

    "Hey guys, what date can we issue this on to *really* drive the point home? How about September 11, Paul? Sorted!"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,166

    A bra walks into a bar and asks for a beer.

    The bartender says “I can’t serve you, you’re off your tits”.

    Was there a strap line?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,919
    ydoethur said:

    A bra walks into a bar and asks for a beer.

    The bartender says “I can’t serve you, you’re off your tits”.

    Was there a strap line?
    Was it a sports bar?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,425

    Sir Sadiq Khan has been made a peer by Sir Keir Starmer.

    Outrageous! I mean, what has Khan done compared to say Charlotte Owen whom Johnson gave a peerage to?
  • eekeek Posts: 34,560
    edited 3:45PM

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Provided the Employer NI is paid HMRC don't seem to be that bothered in checking the details...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,861

    A bra walks into a bar and asks for a beer.

    The bartender says

    "Only one cup ?"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,381
    eek said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Provided the Employer NI is paid HMRC don't seem to be that bothered in checking the details...
    They don't even do that check.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,216
    Nigelb said:

    I presume even Dura disapproves of this ?
    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/2077714480461476019

    Bread and flying circuses.

    The beach parties seem rather ungrateful.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,425

    Sir Sadiq Khan has been made a peer by Sir Keir Starmer.

    Starmer's FU to the Manchester Mayor?
    Tbf, it would be a far more obvious FU if he made the (former) Manchester Mayor a peer!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,847
    Pulpstar said:

    Can the Standards committee not carry on if Nige isn't an MP or something. Is that some rule they have created for themselves ? Why not just plough on.

    They can't because he is not an MP. As he is not an MP there are no sanctions. So if they determined the matter while not an MP and then he becomes one again he could claim that the matter has already been adjudicated (res judicata) and it is contrary to natural justice for him to face the same accusation twice.

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,425
    Nigelb said:

    A bra walks into a bar and asks for a beer.

    The bartender says

    "Only one cup ?"
    Look out, the glass is a bit wet, don't make yourself sloggi.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,770
    Pulpstar said:

    Can the Standards committee not carry on if Nige isn't an MP or something. Is that some rule they have created for themselves ? Why not just plough on.

    They are not allowed to continue the investigation if he is not a sitting MP. However the investigation is only suspended. If he is reelected it restarts where it left off.
  • novanova Posts: 962

    On topic, who are the 14 percent of the survey who think that Farage shouldn't even be investigated?

    Unfortunately for Nigel's little caper, that figure barely moves if he wins.

    Five minutes on Facebook or X and you'll find them. Plenty believe that it's an "establishment" stitch up, with a panel that is picked by/contains supporters of Labour and the Tories who are going after Nigel because he's an outsider.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,354
    edited 4:02PM
    OT - betting tip for Derry City v CSKA Sofia in Europa league tonight. CSKA starting goalkeeper and experienced midfielder (16 and 58 caps for Belarus respectively) both refused visas ahead of tonight’s match. I put a cheeky tenner on Derry and BTTS at 5/1 but DYOR. Derry win is trending on Ladbrokes.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,847
    The figures in the polling can be looked at more or less as a proxy for the % of people who are currently Reform adjacent. Under 30%. So long as it remains there and doesn't return to 34% or so, the important figure remains the 65%+ who are not in favour of Reform, and how determined they are to vote tactically to keep him out. Once Kemi does her sums and stops and thinks she will realise that despite appearances it is essential that she isolates and distances herself from the far right.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,681

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,328
    carnforth said:

    Taz said:

    I thought all the Visa management/sponsorship stuff had been clamped down on and now it was just high skilled people via regular channels.

    “ Visa sponsor opportunity at a PREMIER location. 🛬

    JVR Stores — a Premier shop in Cwmavon, Port Talbot — is now a licensed UK "Skilled Worker" visa sponsor, added to the Home Office register last month.

    (Home Office register; Companies House 10442538)

    Link in the comments 👇”

    https://x.com/based_data_uk/status/2077641755994800414?s=61

    Franchises are a weak link. The central office does the paperwork, or provides instructions... If the shop were independent, they never would.

    Reportedly more than 50% of Dominoes Pizza franchises have at least one worker on a skilled worked visa.
    So long as the employee is getting paid more than the earnings threshold then I don't see a problem with that.

    If they're not, then that is broken and needs fixing.

    And someone mentioned last time we discussed this a scam where people theoretically get paid but then two-thirds of the money is returned to the employer in fees and deductions so they aren't really - I find it hard to believe that's happening with any name brand like Domino's as if it were it would be headline news and I've never seen anything on that.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,328
    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,968
    edited 4:10PM
    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    Also discourages investment in local upskilling.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,370
    nova said:

    On topic, who are the 14 percent of the survey who think that Farage shouldn't even be investigated?

    Unfortunately for Nigel's little caper, that figure barely moves if he wins.

    Five minutes on Facebook or X and you'll find them. Plenty believe that it's an "establishment" stitch up, with a panel that is picked by/contains supporters of Labour and the Tories who are going after Nigel because he's an outsider.
    Good point. Thing 1 is currently abroad doing a school music tour, which is being relayed to families via a private Facebook group.

    It's a marvel to live in a time when that's technically possible, but the terrifying sludge you get surrounding it, just by logging on...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,216

    Nigelb said:

    I presume even Dura disapproves of this ?
    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/2077714480461476019

    Bread and flying circuses.

    The beach parties seem rather ungrateful.
    This appears to be the actual SoW (Sot of War). Since like all his buddies he doesn’t have a satirical bone in his body, I assume he means it.

    The flyovers will continue until morale improves.

    https://x.com/petehegseth/status/2077747620500439435?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,681

    carnforth said:

    Taz said:

    I thought all the Visa management/sponsorship stuff had been clamped down on and now it was just high skilled people via regular channels.

    “ Visa sponsor opportunity at a PREMIER location. 🛬

    JVR Stores — a Premier shop in Cwmavon, Port Talbot — is now a licensed UK "Skilled Worker" visa sponsor, added to the Home Office register last month.

    (Home Office register; Companies House 10442538)

    Link in the comments 👇”

    https://x.com/based_data_uk/status/2077641755994800414?s=61

    Franchises are a weak link. The central office does the paperwork, or provides instructions... If the shop were independent, they never would.

    Reportedly more than 50% of Dominoes Pizza franchises have at least one worker on a skilled worked visa.
    So long as the employee is getting paid more than the earnings threshold then I don't see a problem with that.

    If they're not, then that is broken and needs fixing.

    And someone mentioned last time we discussed this a scam where people theoretically get paid but then two-thirds of the money is returned to the employer in fees and deductions so they aren't really - I find it hard to believe that's happening with any name brand like Domino's as if it were it would be headline news and I've never seen anything on that.
    It's a question of whether it's the main theshold or the shortage occupation threshold.

    I think you're right that the scam deductions stuff is probably not happening at dominos. Although, in a franchise, the payroll is i think done locally not at central office.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,681
    Pro_Rata said:

    Nigelb said:

    A bra walks into a bar and asks for a beer.

    The bartender says

    "Only one cup ?"
    Look out, the glass is a bit wet, don't make yourself sloggi.
    Niche.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 28,053
    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,675

    eek said:

    Do the other 27% think (as I do) that Parliament should be continuing to investigate the behaviour of MPs even when they are delaying said scrutiny by creating a pointless by-election...

    Public backing for parliamentary standards investigation

    · 16% think Nigel Farage is right to resign as an MP and stand for re-election to parliament in the resulting by-election. 16% think he should have continued as an MP. 54% think he should resign and leave parliament.

    · 74% state the standards commissioner should be investigating whether Mr. Farage broke rules by failing to declare a £5m gift received from a Reform UK donor before his election.

    · 73% of the public believe the investigation should continue even if Farage wins the upcoming by-election, compared to 15% who think it should not continue in these circumstances.
    So... roughly half of Reform voters are backing him whatever, the other half have some reservations, and anyone not voting Reform hate his guts?
  • eekeek Posts: 34,560
    Matthew McGregor has been appointed as Director of Political Strategy for Andy Burnham in no10.

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2077775219909906912?s=20

    So someone who understands how politics really works is going to be by Andy's side..
  • RobDRobD Posts: 61,182
    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,416
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Taz said:

    I thought all the Visa management/sponsorship stuff had been clamped down on and now it was just high skilled people via regular channels.

    “ Visa sponsor opportunity at a PREMIER location. 🛬

    JVR Stores — a Premier shop in Cwmavon, Port Talbot — is now a licensed UK "Skilled Worker" visa sponsor, added to the Home Office register last month.

    (Home Office register; Companies House 10442538)

    Link in the comments 👇”

    https://x.com/based_data_uk/status/2077641755994800414?s=61

    Franchises are a weak link. The central office does the paperwork, or provides instructions... If the shop were independent, they never would.

    Reportedly more than 50% of Dominoes Pizza franchises have at least one worker on a skilled worked visa.
    So long as the employee is getting paid more than the earnings threshold then I don't see a problem with that.

    If they're not, then that is broken and needs fixing.

    And someone mentioned last time we discussed this a scam where people theoretically get paid but then two-thirds of the money is returned to the employer in fees and deductions so they aren't really - I find it hard to believe that's happening with any name brand like Domino's as if it were it would be headline news and I've never seen anything on that.
    It's a question of whether it's the main theshold or the shortage occupation threshold.

    I think you're right that the scam deductions stuff is probably not happening at dominos. Although, in a franchise, the payroll is i think done locally not at central office.
    Franchise operations vary wildly. Domino's may run some franchises themselves (as I understand McDonald's do), some franchises are held by quite large chains who may franchise from a range of brand-owners. Others are one-shop operations.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,681
    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Could be worse. Some people have called for the visas of those Argentinian players working in the UK to be revoked...

    Ed appears to be attention-seeking here.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,915
    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Job done - it got him on Sky.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,675

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,321
    Pro_Rata said:

    Sir Sadiq Khan has been made a peer by Sir Keir Starmer.

    Starmer's FU to the Manchester Mayor?
    Tbf, it would be a far more obvious FU if he made the (former) Manchester Mayor a peer!
    Starmer doesn't have the power to require anyone to become a peer. Burnham could refuse the offer of a peerage. And that would be a FU to Starmer.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,574

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    Yes, shortages of people to flip burgers or work in Dominos would really hold the nation back.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,381

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    The problem is that if you, in effect, give employers the ability to create work visas, you are handing them the ability to create something worth north of 15,000 pounds at time. Some go for much more.

    Not legally worth that - selling them is illegal - but that is the market price. And you can blur the edges with processing fees and expenses.

    A classic scam is that fees etc are paid to an offshore company, by the applicant. So the legal and financial system here only sees nominal fees being paid. Meanwhile, tens of thousands have been sent to a bank in Dubai etc.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,381
    Taz said:

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    Yes, shortages of people to flip burgers or work in Dominos would really hold the nation back.
    Especially since there and so many people who can't find work.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,593
    Nigel saw all and prepared for all, and everyone fell for his trap.

    Also - and somehow simultaneously - other parties not taking part is a disgrace and Count Binface is an Establishment plant, so how dare anyone mock the great Nige?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,520
    carnforth said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Could be worse. Some people have called for the visas of those Argentinian players working in the UK to be revoked...

    Ed appears to be attention-seeking here.
    Yeah, fans should give them stick when they next play but nothing more than that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,593
    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 28,053
    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Could be worse. Some people have called for the visas of those Argentinian players working in the UK to be revoked...

    Ed appears to be attention-seeking here.
    Yeah, fans should give them stick when they next play but nothing more than that.
    Seen a few Spurs fans on X wanting Romero gone.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,416
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
    Isn't a one-match ban just what happens if you get sent off? Doesn't sound terribly disproportionate to me.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,681
    edited 4:41PM

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    You missed the possibility that the pool of prospective employees may increase if the wage increases. As would happen with a corner shop manager or petrol station manager.

    Now, it wouldn't happen with a job requiring formal qualifications, of course.

    But who are we kidding when we pretend running a corner shop is a skilled occupation? I could do it with two weeks' on-the-job initiation, and so could you. Skilled my arse.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,581
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
    There are Cunning Stunts, and stunning xxxxs, but at least his request hasn't cost the taxpayer £340000. The Argentinian team have form for doing this and only doing token things won't change anything. The Argentinian team were a bunch of fouling thugs, and the USA referee was useless. I wonder if the infant will be the same.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 28,053
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
    It's a tough one for FIFA. If it's a token punishment, then it's open season going forward. The nearest comparison for FIFA (Rodri and Morata were done by UEFA) is Xhaka and Shaqiri in 2018:

    https://sports.yahoo.com/swiss-players-avoid-suspensions-provocative-world-cup-celebrations-serbia-fined-172446719.html

    FIFA warned the three Swiss players, but ruled they hadn’t violated article 54 of the disciplinary code – “provoking the general public” – which would have called for a two-game suspension. Instead, they fined the players in accordance with article 57, finding them guilty of “offensive gestures or language.”

    I'd suggest that what the Argentina players did last night was far worse than what Xhaka and Shaqiri did in 2018.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,930
    FPT

    No to any more restrictions on fireworks.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,877
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
    It's a tough one for FIFA. If it's a token punishment, then it's open season going forward. The nearest comparison for FIFA (Rodri and Morata were done by UEFA) is Xhaka and Shaqiri in 2018:

    https://sports.yahoo.com/swiss-players-avoid-suspensions-provocative-world-cup-celebrations-serbia-fined-172446719.html

    FIFA warned the three Swiss players, but ruled they hadn’t violated article 54 of the disciplinary code – “provoking the general public” – which would have called for a two-game suspension. Instead, they fined the players in accordance with article 57, finding them guilty of “offensive gestures or language.”

    I'd suggest that what the Argentina players did last night was far worse than what Xhaka and Shaqiri did in 2018.
    98% of the Globe would probably not be offended in the least

    What they Gonna do when Spanish players unfurl the Free Palestine banners during their victory lap a cause most of the Globe supports, award the World Cup to the USA?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 61,182
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    No to any more restrictions on fireworks.

    So people should not be obnoxious with their phones in public places, but can be as obnoxious as they want with fireworks?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,514
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    No to any more restrictions on fireworks.

    Hope you have plenty of earplugs!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 61,182

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
    It's a tough one for FIFA. If it's a token punishment, then it's open season going forward. The nearest comparison for FIFA (Rodri and Morata were done by UEFA) is Xhaka and Shaqiri in 2018:

    https://sports.yahoo.com/swiss-players-avoid-suspensions-provocative-world-cup-celebrations-serbia-fined-172446719.html

    FIFA warned the three Swiss players, but ruled they hadn’t violated article 54 of the disciplinary code – “provoking the general public” – which would have called for a two-game suspension. Instead, they fined the players in accordance with article 57, finding them guilty of “offensive gestures or language.”

    I'd suggest that what the Argentina players did last night was far worse than what Xhaka and Shaqiri did in 2018.
    98% of the Globe would probably not be offended in the least

    What they Gonna do when Spanish players unfurl the Free Palestine banners during their victory lap a cause most of the Globe supports, award the World Cup to the USA?
    Yeah, I doubt anyone was offended at all. It just made the Argentine players look ridiculous.
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 289

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.

    I think the issue now in low-paid work is the quality gap. There is no shortage of people to fill positions, but a shortage of good, committed staff in it for the long-term.

    This is particularly evident in the care sector, where there are a few really dedicated professionals who are brilliant at their job *and* a larger number of minimally-skilled, minimally-committed people who will probably quit within a year. Often notionally doing the same role at the same pay grade.

    The ideal solution would be to pay the good ones a lot more than the bad ones, to retain and incentivise talent now, and to attract good candidates to the sector in the medium to long term. But for various reasons, most of them the fault of government policy and employment law, this doesn't happen and is unlikely to change any time soon.

    One answer would be to lower the minimum wage, while simultaneously encouraging the expansion of a performance-related bonus culture amongst lower-paid jobs, ideally structured so it can be paid monthly. I once heard George Osborne talking along these lines (years ago, probably in opposition and prior to the crash) but it never got anywhere near policy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,919
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    No to any more restrictions on fireworks.

    So people should not be obnoxious with their phones in public places, but can be as obnoxious as they want with fireworks?
    A friend lived about four doors down from a Hell's Angels house in Reading. They used to go in for SERIOUS fireworks. Bits of metal would rain down on neighbouring roofs. (I think they were military grade....)

    Good luck enforcing against them.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,160

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
    There are Cunning Stunts, and stunning xxxxs, but at least his request hasn't cost the taxpayer £340000. The Argentinian team have form for doing this and only doing token things won't change anything. The Argentinian team were a bunch of fouling thugs, and the USA referee was useless. I wonder if the infant will be the same.
    Usual sour grapes from losers I see. The most important virtue in life is humility. Something the English lack sadly…
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,514
    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
    There are Cunning Stunts, and stunning xxxxs, but at least his request hasn't cost the taxpayer £340000. The Argentinian team have form for doing this and only doing token things won't change anything. The Argentinian team were a bunch of fouling thugs, and the USA referee was useless. I wonder if the infant will be the same.
    Usual sour grapes from losers I see. The most important virtue in life is humility. Something the English lack sadly…
    We won in 1982, the Falklands were liberated from Argentine occupation.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,514

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
    It's a tough one for FIFA. If it's a token punishment, then it's open season going forward. The nearest comparison for FIFA (Rodri and Morata were done by UEFA) is Xhaka and Shaqiri in 2018:

    https://sports.yahoo.com/swiss-players-avoid-suspensions-provocative-world-cup-celebrations-serbia-fined-172446719.html

    FIFA warned the three Swiss players, but ruled they hadn’t violated article 54 of the disciplinary code – “provoking the general public” – which would have called for a two-game suspension. Instead, they fined the players in accordance with article 57, finding them guilty of “offensive gestures or language.”

    I'd suggest that what the Argentina players did last night was far worse than what Xhaka and Shaqiri did in 2018.
    98% of the Globe would probably not be offended in the least

    What they Gonna do when Spanish players unfurl the Free Palestine banners during their victory lap a cause most of the Globe supports, award the World Cup to the USA?
    And how are you guys going to go about Freeing Palestine?
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 658

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    No to any more restrictions on fireworks.

    So people should not be obnoxious with their phones in public places, but can be as obnoxious as they want with fireworks?
    A friend lived about four doors down from a Hell's Angels house in Reading. They used to go in for SERIOUS fireworks. Bits of metal would rain down on neighbouring roofs. (I think they were military grade....)

    Good luck enforcing against them.
    I know the house well! I don't know about the fireworks, but my friends over the road say they are very good neighbours. Very quiet, as a rule - but there was a big Hell's Angels funeral there recently which attracted hundreds of (ageing and elderly) men on very large motorbikes.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,877

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
    It's a tough one for FIFA. If it's a token punishment, then it's open season going forward. The nearest comparison for FIFA (Rodri and Morata were done by UEFA) is Xhaka and Shaqiri in 2018:

    https://sports.yahoo.com/swiss-players-avoid-suspensions-provocative-world-cup-celebrations-serbia-fined-172446719.html

    FIFA warned the three Swiss players, but ruled they hadn’t violated article 54 of the disciplinary code – “provoking the general public” – which would have called for a two-game suspension. Instead, they fined the players in accordance with article 57, finding them guilty of “offensive gestures or language.”

    I'd suggest that what the Argentina players did last night was far worse than what Xhaka and Shaqiri did in 2018.
    98% of the Globe would probably not be offended in the least

    What they Gonna do when Spanish players unfurl the Free Palestine banners during their victory lap a cause most of the Globe supports, award the World Cup to the USA?
    And how are you guys going to go about Freeing Palestine?
    There will be a Free Palestine in your life time (not mine) Israel has fooked it with their Genocidal actions
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 658

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
    There are Cunning Stunts, and stunning xxxxs, but at least his request hasn't cost the taxpayer £340000. The Argentinian team have form for doing this and only doing token things won't change anything. The Argentinian team were a bunch of fouling thugs, and the USA referee was useless. I wonder if the infant will be the same.
    Tim Farron, Lib Dem MP and Blackburn Rovers season ticket holder, referred to the Argentinians as "skillful Paraguayans". Harsh, but accurate.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,328
    edited 5:04PM

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    No, I absolutely do understand the different stakeholders involved and the Government should stay out the way and not mandate anything or take control of anything.

    If there's a shortage then pay a decent wage that fills the shortage. If the wage paid is above the threshold then a visa can be applied for if needed. If the wage is below threshold then the firm has at least three options they can do - (1) innovate and improve productivity so that the role is no longer required, (2) raise wages to the point the vacancy is filled, (3) raise wages to the point that a visa can be applied for.

    There is no need to have shortage visas at a lower wage than the threshold.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,675
    Taz said:

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    Yes, shortages of people to flip burgers or work in Dominos would really hold the nation back.

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    The problem is that if you, in effect, give employers the ability to create work visas, you are handing them the ability to create something worth north of 15,000 pounds at time. Some go for much more.

    Not legally worth that - selling them is illegal - but that is the market price. And you can blur the edges with processing fees and expenses.

    A classic scam is that fees etc are paid to an offshore company, by the applicant. So the legal and financial system here only sees nominal fees being paid. Meanwhile, tens of thousands have been sent to a bank in Dubai etc.
    I’m not saying the system has been applied well. I was just discussing the concept.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,514

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
    It's a tough one for FIFA. If it's a token punishment, then it's open season going forward. The nearest comparison for FIFA (Rodri and Morata were done by UEFA) is Xhaka and Shaqiri in 2018:

    https://sports.yahoo.com/swiss-players-avoid-suspensions-provocative-world-cup-celebrations-serbia-fined-172446719.html

    FIFA warned the three Swiss players, but ruled they hadn’t violated article 54 of the disciplinary code – “provoking the general public” – which would have called for a two-game suspension. Instead, they fined the players in accordance with article 57, finding them guilty of “offensive gestures or language.”

    I'd suggest that what the Argentina players did last night was far worse than what Xhaka and Shaqiri did in 2018.
    98% of the Globe would probably not be offended in the least

    What they Gonna do when Spanish players unfurl the Free Palestine banners during their victory lap a cause most of the Globe supports, award the World Cup to the USA?
    And how are you guys going to go about Freeing Palestine?
    There will be a Free Palestine in your life time (not mine) Israel has fooked it with their Genocidal actions
    How will that come about?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,593
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
    It's a tough one for FIFA. If it's a token punishment, then it's open season going forward. The nearest comparison for FIFA (Rodri and Morata were done by UEFA) is Xhaka and Shaqiri in 2018:

    https://sports.yahoo.com/swiss-players-avoid-suspensions-provocative-world-cup-celebrations-serbia-fined-172446719.html

    FIFA warned the three Swiss players, but ruled they hadn’t violated article 54 of the disciplinary code – “provoking the general public” – which would have called for a two-game suspension. Instead, they fined the players in accordance with article 57, finding them guilty of “offensive gestures or language.”

    I'd suggest that what the Argentina players did last night was far worse than what Xhaka and Shaqiri did in 2018.
    Makes sense, but no way they take a harsh response with a final on the line.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,513
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    No to any more restrictions on fireworks.

    Fair enough but they are becoming a pain. It used to be special occasions but now it's a rare week that passes without them going off somewhere close. Becomes boring if it's happening all the time and it frightens the cat.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,574

    Taz said:

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    Yes, shortages of people to flip burgers or work in Dominos would really hold the nation back.

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    The problem is that if you, in effect, give employers the ability to create work visas, you are handing them the ability to create something worth north of 15,000 pounds at time. Some go for much more.

    Not legally worth that - selling them is illegal - but that is the market price. And you can blur the edges with processing fees and expenses.

    A classic scam is that fees etc are paid to an offshore company, by the applicant. So the legal and financial system here only sees nominal fees being paid. Meanwhile, tens of thousands have been sent to a bank in Dubai etc.
    I’m not saying the system has been applied well. I was just discussing the concept.
    We all get the concept and most people fully support targetted migration of skilled migrants to fill ,key skills gaps.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,533
    Brook (England) goes.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,675
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    Yes, shortages of people to flip burgers or work in Dominos would really hold the nation back.

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    The problem is that if you, in effect, give employers the ability to create work visas, you are handing them the ability to create something worth north of 15,000 pounds at time. Some go for much more.

    Not legally worth that - selling them is illegal - but that is the market price. And you can blur the edges with processing fees and expenses.

    A classic scam is that fees etc are paid to an offshore company, by the applicant. So the legal and financial system here only sees nominal fees being paid. Meanwhile, tens of thousands have been sent to a bank in Dubai etc.
    I’m not saying the system has been applied well. I was just discussing the concept.
    We all get the concept and most people fully support targetted migration of skilled migrants to fill ,key skills gaps.
    You do, but @BartholomewRoberts doesn't and I was replying to him.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,328
    edited 5:11PM

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    Yes, shortages of people to flip burgers or work in Dominos would really hold the nation back.

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    The problem is that if you, in effect, give employers the ability to create work visas, you are handing them the ability to create something worth north of 15,000 pounds at time. Some go for much more.

    Not legally worth that - selling them is illegal - but that is the market price. And you can blur the edges with processing fees and expenses.

    A classic scam is that fees etc are paid to an offshore company, by the applicant. So the legal and financial system here only sees nominal fees being paid. Meanwhile, tens of thousands have been sent to a bank in Dubai etc.
    I’m not saying the system has been applied well. I was just discussing the concept.
    We all get the concept and most people fully support targetted migration of skilled migrants to fill ,key skills gaps.
    You do, but @BartholomewRoberts doesn't and I was replying to him.
    I absolutely do get the concept.

    Skilled gaps should be above the income threshold though in my view.

    If its a genuine skill, then it should be valued as such, and paid accordingly which puts it above the threshold.

    If its below the threshold, then how seriously is the firm valuing the skill? "Willing to work for peanuts" is not a skill.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,877

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Yes, it was a ridiculous political stunt, but whilst I expect any 'punishment' to be utterly token, banning them from playing would be entirely disproportionate.
    It's a tough one for FIFA. If it's a token punishment, then it's open season going forward. The nearest comparison for FIFA (Rodri and Morata were done by UEFA) is Xhaka and Shaqiri in 2018:

    https://sports.yahoo.com/swiss-players-avoid-suspensions-provocative-world-cup-celebrations-serbia-fined-172446719.html

    FIFA warned the three Swiss players, but ruled they hadn’t violated article 54 of the disciplinary code – “provoking the general public” – which would have called for a two-game suspension. Instead, they fined the players in accordance with article 57, finding them guilty of “offensive gestures or language.”

    I'd suggest that what the Argentina players did last night was far worse than what Xhaka and Shaqiri did in 2018.
    98% of the Globe would probably not be offended in the least

    What they Gonna do when Spanish players unfurl the Free Palestine banners during their victory lap a cause most of the Globe supports, award the World Cup to the USA?
    And how are you guys going to go about Freeing Palestine?
    There will be a Free Palestine in your life time (not mine) Israel has fooked it with their Genocidal actions
    How will that come about?
    Not by Genocide of Israelis
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,574

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    No, I absolutely do understand the different stakeholders involved and the Government should stay out the way and not mandate anything or take control of anything.

    If there's a shortage then pay a decent wage that fills the shortage. If the wage paid is above the threshold then a visa can be applied for if needed. If the wage is below threshold then the firm has at least three options they can do - (1) innovate and improve productivity so that the role is no longer required, (2) raise wages to the point the vacancy is filled, (3) raise wages to the point that a visa can be applied for.

    There is no need to have shortage visas at a lower wage than the threshold.
    These are the Boriswavers who Labour MPs are demanding get ILR after five years, as it’s unBritish to change it, with the full access to the benefits available and everything else the state can provide.

    Shabana Mahmood was right to try to push back five years.

    Burnham is folding on this.

    I have no doubt this is the system working as intended.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 13,046
    June Sarpong in the Lords. (no observation was available at the time of posting)
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,574
    Omnium said:

    June Sarpong in the Lords. (no observation was available at the time of posting)

    Well deserved, I’m sure.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,847
    Evening all :)

    When I used to commute to work, I would avidly read City AM which was edited by Allister Heath before he went mad.

    Heath pointed out many of the subsequent failings of Osbornomics including keeping QE going for far too long as a form of financial methodone for the City.

    I've had the opportunity to re-acquaint and the City Editor seems to be one Simon Hunt. He was fulsome in his praise for Kemi Badenoch earlier in the week after she presented an outline of the proposed City and Business policy.

    Today, after once again slamming the Triple Lock and we all know there's the economic argument and the political argument at work, he also contributed a fascinating article in support of Land Value Taxation. I really hope someone in Sir Ed Davey's team reads this and runs with it - LVT has been a Liberal policy for decades and Hunt sets out a strong argument in favour.

    https://www.cityam.com/we-should-all-get-behind-this-wealth-tax/

    LVT would replace BOTH stamp duty AND Council Tax. Yes, there will be winners and losers and the losers will shout loudest (as they always do) but there are strong arguments in favour of this approach.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,930
    So Khan is going to be London mayor and a member of the Lords at the same time?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,381

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    Yes, shortages of people to flip burgers or work in Dominos would really hold the nation back.

    carnforth said:

    I think I am right in remembering you need to earn £42k a year for a skilled worker visa. I never knew working in corner shop and pizza takeaways paid so well.....

    Unless it's a shortage occupation. Labour cracked down on some of this, but the definition is still oddly wide.

    The idea that raising wages might assuage the shortages is, apparently, anathema.
    The whole concept of shortage occupations should be scrapped. If its a shortage occupation, then lift the wages so the shortage is filled - and if its lifted to the point that the minimum earnings threshold is reached then a visa can be applied for that way.
    You don't seem to understand the different stakeholders involved. Wages are up to individual employers and businesses. The Government is looking out for the country as a whole.

    If there are shortages that will damage the country's economy what should the govt do? Take control of businesses and make them raise wages? That would be crazy. But what the govt can do is temporarily increase the pool of prospective employees through varying the immigration rules.
    The problem is that if you, in effect, give employers the ability to create work visas, you are handing them the ability to create something worth north of 15,000 pounds at time. Some go for much more.

    Not legally worth that - selling them is illegal - but that is the market price. And you can blur the edges with processing fees and expenses.

    A classic scam is that fees etc are paid to an offshore company, by the applicant. So the legal and financial system here only sees nominal fees being paid. Meanwhile, tens of thousands have been sent to a bank in Dubai etc.
    I’m not saying the system has been applied well. I was just discussing the concept.
    We all get the concept and most people fully support targetted migration of skilled migrants to fill ,key skills gaps.
    You do, but @BartholomewRoberts doesn't and I was replying to him.
    I absolutely do get the concept.

    Skilled gaps should be above the income threshold though in my view.

    If its a genuine skill, then it should be valued as such, and paid accordingly which puts it above the threshold.

    If its below the threshold, then how seriously is the firm valuing the skill? "Willing to work for peanuts" is not a skill.
    What is wrong with importing cheap labour, extorting them of vast sums of money and (often) reducing them to debt peons?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,675
    Andy_JS said:

    So Khan is going to be London mayor and a member of the Lords at the same time?

    Well, Nigel Farage holds down multiple jobs while being an MP, so why can’t Khan hold down two related jobs?
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