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Nigel Farage hasn’t wargamed his by-election very well – politicalbetting.com

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  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,982
    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Ed Davey's example is an exact equivalent that did lead to a one match ban for the players involved so NOT doing the same with the a Argentinian players would be two-tier. FIFA isn't consistent about anything so won't happen of course, but to the extent anyone cares about principle, they should do this.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,166
    Jacks takes one up the arse, as the saying goes.

    At least it didn't hit his bails.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,166
    That will teach me to think that Jacks was playing sensibly and just as required.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,513
    Taz said:

    Jesus, is there no end to the grift

    “ 🚨BREAKING

    President Donald Trump will sell Wall Street faster access to his Truth Social posts”

    https://x.com/insiderwave_/status/2077831824844157417?s=61

    He is, quite literally, having a laugh. Not just at 'libtards' but also, in fact especially, at all the people who voted for him. I guess some of them, those with a few braincells not washed by the cult, have by now come to realise this. I really hope so anyway. Otherwise, bye bye Miss America Pie.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,861
    edited 7:25PM
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    What is wrong with Vance ?
    This is just bizarre.

    Vance muses on Joe Biden eating ice cream:

    "His staff would get him to eat ice cream in just the most suggestive way possible..."

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/2077463262858244361

    In the immortal words of Stuart:

    Everyone has a different theory.

    Personally, I think he's just a coward.
    https://x.com/HunterBiden/status/2077792741199626568
    "I don’t even know what to say anymore. Couches and now this."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,166
    Nigelb said:



    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    What is wrong with Vance ?
    This is just bizarre.

    Vance muses on Joe Biden eating ice cream:

    "His staff would get him to eat ice cream in just the most suggestive way possible..."

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/2077463262858244361

    In the immortal words of Stuart:

    Everyone has a different theory.

    Personally, I think he's just a coward.
    https://x.com/HunterBiden/status/2077792741199626568
    "I don’t even know what to say anymore. Couches and now this."
    Nothing can cushion the impact.

    The worst thing about Trump's extraordinary disasters from whatever it is he is suffering from are that we're at the stage where it would be better for everyone if Vance took over.

    That's how bad things are.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,982
    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2077742798866964837

    Sky News @SkyNews
    Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey has called on FIFA to ban the six Argentine players who celebrated with the "Falklands are Argentine" banner from playing in Sunday's final.

    Ed Davey has told Sky News he has written to the president Gianni Infantino.

    A ridiculous overreaction.
    Ed Davey's example is an exact equivalent that did lead to a one match ban for the players involved so NOT doing the same with the a Argentinian players would be two-tier. FIFA isn't consistent about anything so won't happen of course, but to the extent anyone cares about principle, they should do this.
    Admittedly by UEFA, not FIFA, but the event took place outside the stadium, so arguably the Argentinian incident is worse.

    Spain captain Alvaro Morata and team-mate Rodri have been banned for one game by Uefa after they chanted "Gibraltar is Spanish" during their side's Euro 2024 victory celebrations.

    The Gibraltar Football Association (GFA) made an official complaint about the celebrations to European football's governing body before the pair were charged.

    Uefa has now suspended Morata and Rodri "for failing to comply with the general principles of conduct, for violating the basic rules of decent conduct, for using sporting events for manifestations of a non-sporting nature and for bringing the sport of football, and Uefa in particular, into disrepute".

    They are banned for Spain's next game, which is against Serbia on Thursday, 5 September
    .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c8xle8e7ngno
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,166
    edited 7:32PM
    Because this is really important stuff, unlike sacking the entirety of the Treasury or enacting proper reforms of the education system;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgvwxygpv2o

    I can also deduce from this that none of them have any idea what most marriages are actually like:

    But ceremonies deemed to be "gimmicks" that risk trivialising the legal act of marriage would not be allowed under what the government calls a "dignity framework".
    Activities "such as skydiving, white-water rafting, rollercoasters or other amusement rides" would "fall short of the standard," it says in a consultation setting out the plans, external.
    But it adds: "This would not preclude the inclusion of light-hearted elements such as a reading from Shakespeare, a sing-along to Sweet Caroline or other similar contributions, so long as these remain within the bounds of dignity and do not amount to excessive or inappropriate displays."
    The proposals also say food and drink, including alcohol, should not be "casually/recreationally consumed during the ceremony".


    Speaking as an organist who attends a lot of them, that's all marriages scuppered straight away. They already have ridiculous readings and music and most of the guests are hammered all the time and necking it as they go.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,574
    ydoethur said:

    Because this is really important stuff, unlike sacking the entirety of the Treasury or enacting proper reforms of the education system;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgvwxygpv2o

    I can also deduce from this that none of them have any idea what most marriages are actually like:

    But ceremonies deemed to be "gimmicks" that risk trivialising the legal act of marriage would not be allowed under what the government calls a "dignity framework".
    Activities "such as skydiving, white-water rafting, rollercoasters or other amusement rides" would "fall short of the standard," it says in a consultation setting out the plans, external.
    But it adds: "This would not preclude the inclusion of light-hearted elements such as a reading from Shakespeare, a sing-along to Sweet Caroline or other similar contributions, so long as these remain within the bounds of dignity and do not amount to excessive or inappropriate displays."
    The proposals also say food and drink, including alcohol, should not be "casually/recreationally consumed during the ceremony".


    Speaking as an organist who attends a lot of them, that's all marriages scuppered straight away. They already have ridiculous readings and music and most of the guests are hammered all the time and necking it as they go.

    It’s all about the legacy now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,166
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Because this is really important stuff, unlike sacking the entirety of the Treasury or enacting proper reforms of the education system;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgvwxygpv2o

    I can also deduce from this that none of them have any idea what most marriages are actually like:

    But ceremonies deemed to be "gimmicks" that risk trivialising the legal act of marriage would not be allowed under what the government calls a "dignity framework".
    Activities "such as skydiving, white-water rafting, rollercoasters or other amusement rides" would "fall short of the standard," it says in a consultation setting out the plans, external.
    But it adds: "This would not preclude the inclusion of light-hearted elements such as a reading from Shakespeare, a sing-along to Sweet Caroline or other similar contributions, so long as these remain within the bounds of dignity and do not amount to excessive or inappropriate displays."
    The proposals also say food and drink, including alcohol, should not be "casually/recreationally consumed during the ceremony".


    Speaking as an organist who attends a lot of them, that's all marriages scuppered straight away. They already have ridiculous readings and music and most of the guests are hammered all the time and necking it as they go.

    It’s all about the legacy now.
    That would be reform of funerals.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,567
    ...
    ydoethur said:

    Because this is really important stuff, unlike sacking the entirety of the Treasury or enacting proper reforms of the education system;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgvwxygpv2o

    I can also deduce from this that none of them have any idea what most marriages are actually like:

    But ceremonies deemed to be "gimmicks" that risk trivialising the legal act of marriage would not be allowed under what the government calls a "dignity framework".
    Activities "such as skydiving, white-water rafting, rollercoasters or other amusement rides" would "fall short of the standard," it says in a consultation setting out the plans, external.
    But it adds: "This would not preclude the inclusion of light-hearted elements such as a reading from Shakespeare, a sing-along to Sweet Caroline or other similar contributions, so long as these remain within the bounds of dignity and do not amount to excessive or inappropriate displays."
    The proposals also say food and drink, including alcohol, should not be "casually/recreationally consumed during the ceremony".


    Speaking as an organist who attends a lot of them, that's all marriages scuppered straight away. They already have ridiculous readings and music and most of the guests are hammered all the time and necking it as they go.

    Being married by an Elvis impersonator in Vegas is classy enough for my next throw of the dice if Trump can celebrate 250 years of US independence with a cage fight on the Whitehouse lawn.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,166
    edited 7:47PM
    When Joe Root retires at the end of next summer, we are so epically fucked.

    99 not out was the equivalent of about 150 given the brainlessness of the rest of the lineup.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,381
    ydoethur said:

    Because this is really important stuff, unlike sacking the entirety of the Treasury or enacting proper reforms of the education system;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgvwxygpv2o

    I can also deduce from this that none of them have any idea what most marriages are actually like:

    But ceremonies deemed to be "gimmicks" that risk trivialising the legal act of marriage would not be allowed under what the government calls a "dignity framework".
    Activities "such as skydiving, white-water rafting, rollercoasters or other amusement rides" would "fall short of the standard," it says in a consultation setting out the plans, external.
    But it adds: "This would not preclude the inclusion of light-hearted elements such as a reading from Shakespeare, a sing-along to Sweet Caroline or other similar contributions, so long as these remain within the bounds of dignity and do not amount to excessive or inappropriate displays."
    The proposals also say food and drink, including alcohol, should not be "casually/recreationally consumed during the ceremony".


    Speaking as an organist who attends a lot of them, that's all marriages scuppered straight away. They already have ridiculous readings and music and most of the guests are hammered all the time and necking it as they go.

    Sigh

    Sacking the entire Treasury would be stupid.

    Who would crew the first manned landing on Saturn?

    (DfE does the first manned landing on the Sun. Parliament the first manned landing on Uranus)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,166

    ydoethur said:

    Because this is really important stuff, unlike sacking the entirety of the Treasury or enacting proper reforms of the education system;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgvwxygpv2o

    I can also deduce from this that none of them have any idea what most marriages are actually like:

    But ceremonies deemed to be "gimmicks" that risk trivialising the legal act of marriage would not be allowed under what the government calls a "dignity framework".
    Activities "such as skydiving, white-water rafting, rollercoasters or other amusement rides" would "fall short of the standard," it says in a consultation setting out the plans, external.
    But it adds: "This would not preclude the inclusion of light-hearted elements such as a reading from Shakespeare, a sing-along to Sweet Caroline or other similar contributions, so long as these remain within the bounds of dignity and do not amount to excessive or inappropriate displays."
    The proposals also say food and drink, including alcohol, should not be "casually/recreationally consumed during the ceremony".


    Speaking as an organist who attends a lot of them, that's all marriages scuppered straight away. They already have ridiculous readings and music and most of the guests are hammered all the time and necking it as they go.

    Sigh

    Sacking the entire Treasury would be stupid.

    Who would crew the first manned landing on Saturn?

    (DfE does the first manned landing on the Sun. Parliament the first manned landing on Uranus)
    Excuse me!

    I have no wish to have a bunch of MPs land on my anus!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,129
    Now I have a machine gun, ho ho ho.

    It's a Christmas film.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,567

    HYUFD said:

    Farage may hope he wins by a big enough majority in Clacton to avoid a recall by election

    That's what he set out to do. I can't see Labour and the Tories blindsided by that one.
    To be cynical, would Labour want to risk the Conservatives winning a re-run in Clacton?
    In that case surely the Tories can muster 10% of vexed Clacton voters.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,453

    tlg86 said:

    This is bad:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/collision-between-a-train-and-a-car-at-hoghton-level-crossing

    At around 08:48 on 25 June 2026, the 07:51 Northern passenger service from Colne to Preston struck a car on Hoghton automatic half-barrier level crossing, which is situated between Preston and Blackburn. The driver of the car was fatally injured in the accident and a child who was a passenger in the car was also seriously injured. No injuries were caused to anyone on the train.

    The evidence available to RAIB shows that the train had passed a green (proceed) signal as it approached the crossing. RAIB’s preliminary examination also found that the road traffic lights and audible alarm at the crossing had not been activated, and that the half-barriers were raised.

    It's quite concerning level crossing safety signals can actually fail in such way. I would have expected the system to keep the lights at red unless it had an indication the barrier and alarms had been triggered.
    Automatic half barrier crossings don't interlock with the signals like that; full barrier crossings do. The reasoning generally given is that to interlock with the signals you need to close the barriers a lot longer before the train arrives, and drivers tend not to like that. But Wikipedia tells me they are now gradually phasing them out in favour of full barrier crossings.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,835
    ydoethur said:

    When Joe Root retires at the end of next summer, we are so epically fucked.

    99 not out was the equivalent of about 150 given the brainlessness of the rest of the lineup.

    You think he's gone after the ashes?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,331

    HYUFD said:

    Farage may hope he wins by a big enough majority in Clacton to avoid a recall by election

    That's what he set out to do. I can't see Labour and the Tories blindsided by that one.
    To be cynical, would Labour want to risk the Conservatives winning a re-run in Clacton?
    In that case surely the Tories can muster 10% of vexed Clacton voters.
    Unlikely, since its 10% of the electorate and not 10% of voters.

    Would probably require multiple parties voters to sign up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,166

    ydoethur said:

    When Joe Root retires at the end of next summer, we are so epically fucked.

    99 not out was the equivalent of about 150 given the brainlessness of the rest of the lineup.

    You think he's gone after the ashes?
    To put it another way, I will be very pleasantly surprised if he isn't.

    Unless he retires before, of course.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,835
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    When Joe Root retires at the end of next summer, we are so epically fucked.

    99 not out was the equivalent of about 150 given the brainlessness of the rest of the lineup.

    You think he's gone after the ashes?
    To put it another way, I will be very pleasantly surprised if he isn't.

    Unless he retires before, of course.
    I think he still has the hunger for runs and is clearly still good enough. It may come suddenly I guess. Hope he has years left yet.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,778
    ydoethur said:

    Because this is really important stuff, unlike sacking the entirety of the Treasury or enacting proper reforms of the education system;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgvwxygpv2o

    I can also deduce from this that none of them have any idea what most marriages are actually like:

    But ceremonies deemed to be "gimmicks" that risk trivialising the legal act of marriage would not be allowed under what the government calls a "dignity framework".
    Activities "such as skydiving, white-water rafting, rollercoasters or other amusement rides" would "fall short of the standard," it says in a consultation setting out the plans, external.
    But it adds: "This would not preclude the inclusion of light-hearted elements such as a reading from Shakespeare, a sing-along to Sweet Caroline or other similar contributions, so long as these remain within the bounds of dignity and do not amount to excessive or inappropriate displays."
    The proposals also say food and drink, including alcohol, should not be "casually/recreationally consumed during the ceremony".


    Speaking as an organist who attends a lot of them, that's all marriages scuppered straight away. They already have ridiculous readings and music and most of the guests are hammered all the time and necking it as they go.

    This is Starmerism all over. An update to procedures which nobody was clamouring for.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,028
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    Because this is really important stuff, unlike sacking the entirety of the Treasury or enacting proper reforms of the education system;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgvwxygpv2o

    I can also deduce from this that none of them have any idea what most marriages are actually like:

    But ceremonies deemed to be "gimmicks" that risk trivialising the legal act of marriage would not be allowed under what the government calls a "dignity framework".
    Activities "such as skydiving, white-water rafting, rollercoasters or other amusement rides" would "fall short of the standard," it says in a consultation setting out the plans, external.
    But it adds: "This would not preclude the inclusion of light-hearted elements such as a reading from Shakespeare, a sing-along to Sweet Caroline or other similar contributions, so long as these remain within the bounds of dignity and do not amount to excessive or inappropriate displays."
    The proposals also say food and drink, including alcohol, should not be "casually/recreationally consumed during the ceremony".


    Speaking as an organist who attends a lot of them, that's all marriages scuppered straight away. They already have ridiculous readings and music and most of the guests are hammered all the time and necking it as they go.

    This is Starmerism all over. An update to procedures which nobody was clamouring for.
    I'm not sure what all the flapping is about, other than the normal Pavlovian desire to have a go at SKS.

    Mr Cameron introduced Equal Marriage in 2013, soon after the GFC.

    This is more or less following what Scotland did already, and will have the advantage of more options - including lower cost - weddings being available to those who want or need them.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,770
    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,574

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,425
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    1. Saving money
    2. Cutting costs
    3. Rinse and repeat...

    Whether money is actually ever saved is another matter, but the bean counters say 'economies of scale'.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,567
    edited 9:03PM

    HYUFD said:

    Farage may hope he wins by a big enough majority in Clacton to avoid a recall by election

    That's what he set out to do. I can't see Labour and the Tories blindsided by that one.
    To be cynical, would Labour want to risk the Conservatives winning a re-run in Clacton?
    In that case surely the Tories can muster 10% of vexed Clacton voters.
    Unlikely, since its 10% of the electorate and not 10% of voters.

    Would probably require multiple parties voters to sign up.
    I didn't specify 10% of Conservative voters or even voters. If the Conservatives have a hope of overturning Farage I am suggesting they have the wherewithal to rally enough angry voters to recall the MP again.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,331
    ydoethur said:

    Because this is really important stuff, unlike sacking the entirety of the Treasury or enacting proper reforms of the education system;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgvwxygpv2o

    I can also deduce from this that none of them have any idea what most marriages are actually like:

    But ceremonies deemed to be "gimmicks" that risk trivialising the legal act of marriage would not be allowed under what the government calls a "dignity framework".
    Activities "such as skydiving, white-water rafting, rollercoasters or other amusement rides" would "fall short of the standard," it says in a consultation setting out the plans, external.
    But it adds: "This would not preclude the inclusion of light-hearted elements such as a reading from Shakespeare, a sing-along to Sweet Caroline or other similar contributions, so long as these remain within the bounds of dignity and do not amount to excessive or inappropriate displays."
    The proposals also say food and drink, including alcohol, should not be "casually/recreationally consumed during the ceremony".


    Speaking as an organist who attends a lot of them, that's all marriages scuppered straight away. They already have ridiculous readings and music and most of the guests are hammered all the time and necking it as they go.

    Besides the odd definition of light hearted and the dignity restrictions, the overall direction of travel there is a rare good one.

    It is a liberalisation which should generally be welcomed. Wedding venues are incredibly expensive and if a liberalisation can give people more choice and potentially save thousands, what's not to like?

    I know many pubs etc with marquees that already host receptions but are forbidden from having the ceremony as not licensed for that. If this allows them to offer that, and people want that, then that should be welcomed.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,770
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    Sadly I do suspect a lot of gerrymandering.

    And of course the changes will ensure that rural areas are dominated by the adjacent urban areas so making things like new building developments easier.

    They will do almost nothing to save costs. There will be a few very senior managerial jobs that will go but because of the TUPE rules they cannot use the reorganisation as an excuse for layoffs, nor can they change pay and conditions. And given that they will still need to use existing district and county council offices because they still need to do all the jobs that are currently being done and need the office spce for that, there will be little or no real-estate savings.

    This is all being driven entirely by political considerations and is a centralising rather than decentralising move. A real retrograde step.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,599
    HYUFD said:

    Farage may hope he wins by a big enough majority in Clacton to avoid a recall by election

    Given you only need 10%, there's very little chance a win of even 90% on low turnout prevents a recall. Every recall petition bar the first has easily succeeded.

    From an opposition standpoint you'd still push hard, since it forces him to do it over again, and why not take the chance that some of his support might have fallen away? Even if most stuck with him (as it probably would) at least some wouldn't).
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,770

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    1. Saving money
    2. Cutting costs
    3. Rinse and repeat...

    Whether money is actually ever saved is another matter, but the bean counters say 'economies of scale'.
    When have the bean counters ever been right?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,331

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    Sadly I do suspect a lot of gerrymandering.

    And of course the changes will ensure that rural areas are dominated by the adjacent urban areas so making things like new building developments easier.

    They will do almost nothing to save costs. There will be a few very senior managerial jobs that will go but because of the TUPE rules they cannot use the reorganisation as an excuse for layoffs, nor can they change pay and conditions. And given that they will still need to use existing district and county council offices because they still need to do all the jobs that are currently being done and need the office spce for that, there will be little or no real-estate savings.

    This is all being driven entirely by political considerations and is a centralising rather than decentralising move. A real retrograde step.
    Given we desperately need developments and that you (rightly) welcome migration which means we need even more developments, then why are you saying it will make new developments easier as if it is a bad thing?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,371
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    Mostly planning, I reckon.

    There are lots of cities that want to expand, know about expansion, but can't really because they have built out to where the city limit was put in 1974 or whenever. Go over the boundary and you have a different council whose priorities are often about green belts, strategic gaps and not being absorbed by that ghastly metropolis. Democratic will of the people, innit?

    It doesn't have to be that way- South Cambridgeshire has broadly accepted that it has a role taking people as part of the Cambridge co-prosperity sphere, because Cambridge City's boundaries are insane (they exclude the nicest Cambridge college, for example). But most of the councils for surrounding districts see it as their duty to be as dog-in-the-manger as possible.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,599

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    Sadly I do suspect a lot of gerrymandering.

    And of course the changes will ensure that rural areas are dominated by the adjacent urban areas so making things like new building developments easier.

    They will do almost nothing to save costs. There will be a few very senior managerial jobs that will go but because of the TUPE rules they cannot use the reorganisation as an excuse for layoffs, nor can they change pay and conditions. And given that they will still need to use existing district and county council offices because they still need to do all the jobs that are currently being done and need the office spce for that, there will be little or no real-estate savings.

    This is all being driven entirely by political considerations and is a centralising rather than decentralising move. A real retrograde step.
    I don't think centralisation is always bad and decentralising always good. I think that is often the case, so it gets treated like it is universal, with the result that sometimes people centralise but have to pretend they are not.

    I think the principle behind the drive towards unitarisation is a good one particularly given the very limited resources for local government. I don't think districts and county councils are necessary or particularly effective. Existing unitaries show that things like real estate savings and managerial reductions will likely come over time.

    Now, some of the choices for the reorganisations are certainly questionable to say the least, so some of the areas as proposed are not ideal, but the way divisions are pulled together by the LGBCE (now or in a later review) makes political gerrymandering a lot harder than people think, as they do not just follow what the local councils or a party tells them - they often the local council suggestion as a starting point, since they have the most resources to suggest an all-council proposal, but local comments can change things a lot.

    I made a public comment on one in my area, and it was cited as reason to make a fairly significant set of changes against even the wishes of the councillor who represented that area.

    It's very peculiar that the final call has been dropped now, but my contacts in this area tell me it's because Steve Reed is an arse.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,582

    HYUFD said:

    Farage may hope he wins by a big enough majority in Clacton to avoid a recall by election

    That's what he set out to do. I can't see Labour and the Tories blindsided by that one.
    To be cynical, would Labour want to risk the Conservatives winning a re-run in Clacton?
    In that case surely the Tories can muster 10% of vexed Clacton voters.
    Unlikely, since its 10% of the electorate and not 10% of voters.

    Would probably require multiple parties voters to sign up.
    I didn't specify 10% of Conservative voters or even voters. If the Conservatives have a hope of overturning Farage I am suggesting they have the wherewithal to rally enough angry voters to recall the MP again.
    I'm sure the likes of 3 parties can pull together 8000 votes for a recall
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,567

    HYUFD said:

    Farage may hope he wins by a big enough majority in Clacton to avoid a recall by election

    That's what he set out to do. I can't see Labour and the Tories blindsided by that one.
    To be cynical, would Labour want to risk the Conservatives winning a re-run in Clacton?
    In that case surely the Tories can muster 10% of vexed Clacton voters.
    Unlikely, since its 10% of the electorate and not 10% of voters.

    Would probably require multiple parties voters to sign up.
    8000 voters doesn't seem a big ask to recall a divisive figure like Farage.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,599
    edited 9:14PM

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    Sadly I do suspect a lot of gerrymandering.

    And of course the changes will ensure that rural areas are dominated by the adjacent urban areas so making things like new building developments easier.

    They will do almost nothing to save costs. There will be a few very senior managerial jobs that will go but because of the TUPE rules they cannot use the reorganisation as an excuse for layoffs, nor can they change pay and conditions. And given that they will still need to use existing district and county council offices because they still need to do all the jobs that are currently being done and need the office spce for that, there will be little or no real-estate savings.

    This is all being driven entirely by political considerations and is a centralising rather than decentralising move. A real retrograde step.
    Given we desperately need developments and that you (rightly) welcome migration which means we need even more developments, then why are you saying it will make new developments easier as if it is a bad thing?
    And even if it is, facilitating that would be an entirely legitimate political choice for government to make. Something being 'political' does not automatically mean it is bad, unless people mean it narrowly to mean 'party political' to advantage one side in electoral terms.

    Which is a potential accusation, but administrative boundaries being driven by political considerations is pretty normal - the criteria for setting them are done by politicians for a start, and you have criteria like community but also electoral equality (for wards) that end up conflicting, and no matter how you do it the reality of where people live don't fit perfectly in that.

    Are these proposals borked? Possibly, in some areas (Devon looks a mess to me). But having a political drive to reduce the number of councils, and possibly to make development easier (I don't think it will be that easier, but whatever)? Legitimate.

    And people don't even care about their local council until it is changed. I've known people who still think they live in a district council which was abolished nearly 20 years ago.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,331
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    Sadly I do suspect a lot of gerrymandering.

    And of course the changes will ensure that rural areas are dominated by the adjacent urban areas so making things like new building developments easier.

    They will do almost nothing to save costs. There will be a few very senior managerial jobs that will go but because of the TUPE rules they cannot use the reorganisation as an excuse for layoffs, nor can they change pay and conditions. And given that they will still need to use existing district and county council offices because they still need to do all the jobs that are currently being done and need the office spce for that, there will be little or no real-estate savings.

    This is all being driven entirely by political considerations and is a centralising rather than decentralising move. A real retrograde step.
    I don't think centralisation is always bad and decentralising always good. I think that is often the case, so it gets treated like it is universal, with the result that sometimes people centralise but have to pretend they are not.

    I think the principle behind the drive towards unitarisation is a good one particularly given the very limited resources for local government. I don't think districts and county councils are necessary or particularly effective. Existing unitaries show that things like real estate savings and managerial reductions will likely come over time.

    Now, some of the choices for the reorganisations are certainly questionable to say the least, so some of the areas as proposed are not ideal, but the way divisions are pulled together by the LGBCE (now or in a later review) makes political gerrymandering a lot harder than people think, as they do not just follow what the local councils or a party tells them - they often the local council suggestion as a starting point, since they have the most resources to suggest an all-council proposal, but local comments can change things a lot.

    I made a public comment on one in my area, and it was cited as reason to make a fairly significant set of changes against even the wishes of the councillor who represented that area.

    It's very peculiar that the final call has been dropped now, but my contacts in this area tell me it's because Steve Reed is an arse.
    One area I gree with Richard is that gerrymandering seems to be the primary concern with some of these boundaries.

    Eg in Lancashire why on earth twin Preston with Lancaster when it takes a half hour on the M6 to get between them? Whereas Preston and South Ribble and Chorley form one contiguous urban development with a river down the middle but will now be separate Councils?

    It could not possibly be because Preston and Lancaster more solidly vote Labour while South Ribble and Chorley can often vote Tory? No, couldn't possibly be that ...

    The same almost happened with Warrington and Cheshire, lots of arguments about how it should be arranged and whether the town should be in Merseyside's development with much of the arguments based on partisan politics.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,599

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    1. Saving money
    2. Cutting costs
    3. Rinse and repeat...

    Whether money is actually ever saved is another matter, but the bean counters say 'economies of scale'.
    When have the bean counters ever been right?
    My council, perhaps to justify it's own existence, has said unitarisation enabled saving money and cutting costs which was essential, and unlikely to happen without it. It was done against the wishes of most of the preceding councils and the policy of the Leader's own national party at the time, but they must have changed their tune as they put her in the Lords several years later.

    It's not the cure to all ills, and can be done in a hamfisted way, but this is an area I support the motive of the government at least.

    I'm sure there will be some legal challenges, but on its face that sounds hard to succeed - there are criteria for areas the minister will suppose to have followed, but I'm sure the language was loose around essentially making judgement calls, so it would be easy to defend as reasonable even if everyone hates it.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,570
    edited 9:19PM

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    1. Saving money
    2. Cutting costs
    3. Rinse and repeat...

    Whether money is actually ever saved is another matter, but the bean counters say 'economies of scale'.
    When have the bean counters ever been right?
    Presumably when there’s been a load of beans that needed counting.

    “How many beans do you make that, Dave?”
    “Three thousand, four hundred and fifty two, Alan”
    “Nice one, thanks. That’s quite a lot of beans”
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,599

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    Sadly I do suspect a lot of gerrymandering.

    And of course the changes will ensure that rural areas are dominated by the adjacent urban areas so making things like new building developments easier.

    They will do almost nothing to save costs. There will be a few very senior managerial jobs that will go but because of the TUPE rules they cannot use the reorganisation as an excuse for layoffs, nor can they change pay and conditions. And given that they will still need to use existing district and county council offices because they still need to do all the jobs that are currently being done and need the office spce for that, there will be little or no real-estate savings.

    This is all being driven entirely by political considerations and is a centralising rather than decentralising move. A real retrograde step.
    I don't think centralisation is always bad and decentralising always good. I think that is often the case, so it gets treated like it is universal, with the result that sometimes people centralise but have to pretend they are not.

    I think the principle behind the drive towards unitarisation is a good one particularly given the very limited resources for local government. I don't think districts and county councils are necessary or particularly effective. Existing unitaries show that things like real estate savings and managerial reductions will likely come over time.

    Now, some of the choices for the reorganisations are certainly questionable to say the least, so some of the areas as proposed are not ideal, but the way divisions are pulled together by the LGBCE (now or in a later review) makes political gerrymandering a lot harder than people think, as they do not just follow what the local councils or a party tells them - they often the local council suggestion as a starting point, since they have the most resources to suggest an all-council proposal, but local comments can change things a lot.

    I made a public comment on one in my area, and it was cited as reason to make a fairly significant set of changes against even the wishes of the councillor who represented that area.

    It's very peculiar that the final call has been dropped now, but my contacts in this area tell me it's because Steve Reed is an arse.
    One area I gree with Richard is that gerrymandering seems to be the primary concern with some of these boundaries.

    Eg in Lancashire why on earth twin Preston with Lancaster when it takes a half hour on the M6 to get between them? Whereas Preston and South Ribble and Chorley form one contiguous urban development with a river down the middle but will now be separate Councils?

    It could not possibly be because Preston and Lancaster more solidly vote Labour while South Ribble and Chorley can often vote Tory? No, couldn't possibly be that ...

    The same almost happened with Warrington and Cheshire, lots of arguments about how it should be arranged and whether the town should be in Merseyside's development with much of the arguments based on partisan politics.
    I think it's fair to be suspicious of it, but gerrymandering is not as simple as politicians think as areas change over time anyway, and the individual parts really are heavily influenced by public comments. So I suspect any advantage gained would be fleeting.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,599

    ydoethur said:

    When Joe Root retires at the end of next summer, we are so epically fucked.

    99 not out was the equivalent of about 150 given the brainlessness of the rest of the lineup.

    You think he's gone after the ashes?
    He's not going until he breaks Tendulkar's record.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,331

    HYUFD said:

    Farage may hope he wins by a big enough majority in Clacton to avoid a recall by election

    That's what he set out to do. I can't see Labour and the Tories blindsided by that one.
    To be cynical, would Labour want to risk the Conservatives winning a re-run in Clacton?
    In that case surely the Tories can muster 10% of vexed Clacton voters.
    Unlikely, since its 10% of the electorate and not 10% of voters.

    Would probably require multiple parties voters to sign up.
    I didn't specify 10% of Conservative voters or even voters. If the Conservatives have a hope of overturning Farage I am suggesting they have the wherewithal to rally enough angry voters to recall the MP again.
    I'm sure the likes of 3 parties can pull together 8000 votes for a recall
    Me too, but I was responding to a scenario where Labour were opposing a recall and only 1 party was supporting it.

    10% of the electorate will require more than just one parties voters to sign up realistically. Which will probably not be an issue given how divisive Farage is.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 25,010
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    When Joe Root retires at the end of next summer, we are so epically fucked.

    99 not out was the equivalent of about 150 given the brainlessness of the rest of the lineup.

    You think he's gone after the ashes?
    He's not going until he breaks Tendulkar's record.
    Presumably he'll retire from ODIs after the next one-day works cup, which I think is next year.

    How long he'll keep going in Tests I don't know.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,371
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    Sadly I do suspect a lot of gerrymandering.

    And of course the changes will ensure that rural areas are dominated by the adjacent urban areas so making things like new building developments easier.

    They will do almost nothing to save costs. There will be a few very senior managerial jobs that will go but because of the TUPE rules they cannot use the reorganisation as an excuse for layoffs, nor can they change pay and conditions. And given that they will still need to use existing district and county council offices because they still need to do all the jobs that are currently being done and need the office spce for that, there will be little or no real-estate savings.

    This is all being driven entirely by political considerations and is a centralising rather than decentralising move. A real retrograde step.
    I don't think centralisation is always bad and decentralising always good. I think that is often the case, so it gets treated like it is universal, with the result that sometimes people centralise but have to pretend they are not.

    I think the principle behind the drive towards unitarisation is a good one particularly given the very limited resources for local government. I don't think districts and county councils are necessary or particularly effective. Existing unitaries show that things like real estate savings and managerial reductions will likely come over time.

    Now, some of the choices for the reorganisations are certainly questionable to say the least, so some of the areas as proposed are not ideal, but the way divisions are pulled together by the LGBCE (now or in a later review) makes political gerrymandering a lot harder than people think, as they do not just follow what the local councils or a party tells them - they often the local council suggestion as a starting point, since they have the most resources to suggest an all-council proposal, but local comments can change things a lot.

    I made a public comment on one in my area, and it was cited as reason to make a fairly significant set of changes against even the wishes of the councillor who represented that area.

    It's very peculiar that the final call has been dropped now, but my contacts in this area tell me it's because Steve Reed is an arse.
    Could be about clearing the decks before Burnham's Great Reshuffle- allow the programme to slip much more and the May 2027 elections start to look precarious.

    The other fun game (if you like that sort of fun game) is to compare what's coming out to the Redcliffe-Maud map of nearly 60 years ago. It looks like we're ending up with somewhat smaller units, and better respect for counties, but the logic is similar.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcliffe-Maud_Report#/media/File:RedcliffeMaudReportMap1969.png
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,599

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    Sadly I do suspect a lot of gerrymandering.

    And of course the changes will ensure that rural areas are dominated by the adjacent urban areas so making things like new building developments easier.

    They will do almost nothing to save costs. There will be a few very senior managerial jobs that will go but because of the TUPE rules they cannot use the reorganisation as an excuse for layoffs, nor can they change pay and conditions. And given that they will still need to use existing district and county council offices because they still need to do all the jobs that are currently being done and need the office spce for that, there will be little or no real-estate savings.

    This is all being driven entirely by political considerations and is a centralising rather than decentralising move. A real retrograde step.
    I don't think centralisation is always bad and decentralising always good. I think that is often the case, so it gets treated like it is universal, with the result that sometimes people centralise but have to pretend they are not.

    I think the principle behind the drive towards unitarisation is a good one particularly given the very limited resources for local government. I don't think districts and county councils are necessary or particularly effective. Existing unitaries show that things like real estate savings and managerial reductions will likely come over time.

    Now, some of the choices for the reorganisations are certainly questionable to say the least, so some of the areas as proposed are not ideal, but the way divisions are pulled together by the LGBCE (now or in a later review) makes political gerrymandering a lot harder than people think, as they do not just follow what the local councils or a party tells them - they often the local council suggestion as a starting point, since they have the most resources to suggest an all-council proposal, but local comments can change things a lot.

    I made a public comment on one in my area, and it was cited as reason to make a fairly significant set of changes against even the wishes of the councillor who represented that area.

    It's very peculiar that the final call has been dropped now, but my contacts in this area tell me it's because Steve Reed is an arse.
    Could be about clearing the decks before Burnham's Great Reshuffle- allow the programme to slip much more and the May 2027 elections start to look precarious.

    The other fun game (if you like that sort of fun game) is to compare what's coming out to the Redcliffe-Maud map of nearly 60 years ago. It looks like we're ending up with somewhat smaller units, and better respect for counties, but the logic is similar.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcliffe-Maud_Report#/media/File:RedcliffeMaudReportMap1969.png
    I like it. Aesthetically at least.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,570
    edited 9:35PM

    HYUFD said:

    Farage may hope he wins by a big enough majority in Clacton to avoid a recall by election

    That's what he set out to do. I can't see Labour and the Tories blindsided by that one.
    To be cynical, would Labour want to risk the Conservatives winning a re-run in Clacton?
    In that case surely the Tories can muster 10% of vexed Clacton voters.
    Unlikely, since its 10% of the electorate and not 10% of voters.

    Would probably require multiple parties voters to sign up.
    I didn't specify 10% of Conservative voters or even voters. If the Conservatives have a hope of overturning Farage I am suggesting they have the wherewithal to rally enough angry voters to recall the MP again.
    I'm sure the likes of 3 parties can pull together 8000 votes for a recall
    Me too, but I was responding to a scenario where Labour were opposing a recall and only 1 party was supporting it.

    10% of the electorate will require more than just one parties voters to sign up realistically. Which will probably not be an issue given how divisive Farage is.
    When Farage wins the by-election against Binface the other parties can still come away with a win, because they can berate him for wasting taxpayers’ money on a stunt.

    When Farage gets recalled and faces a second by-election, which he will also win even if more narrowly, then it gives him a perfect way back to credibility. He can now point the wasting taxpayers money at the other parties (even if in reality it’s 10% of his electorate) and will start to look invincible. “The establishment tried to bring me down twice but the good people of Clacton weren’t fooled”.

    The only potential beneficiary of a recall election is the conservatives, if they get very lucky and have the support of other parties. If you’re Labour or the Lib Dems, why would you go along with this? Worst case you bolster Reform. Best case you give the Tories a way back. And you probably end up with the election, if not of Farage, then of a Tory on the far, Reform-adjacent nationalist wing of that party.

    I suppose for the Lib Dems that possibly makes some sense, given their strategy to further toxify the Tory brand. But not for Labour.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,331

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire to become a single unitary.

    That is bad news for the Forest and Stroud, possibly Gloucester itself, as the county council will be dominated by rich Fukkers from Tewkesbury and the Cotswolds who will be totally unscrupulous about redirecting all the money to where it will benefit their voters rather than where it's actually needed.

    The whole plan for the country is a f##king shambles. Pointless and costly reorganisations which will do nothing to improve local democracy or performance. Indeed I expect services to be far worse and cost far more as a result.
    I’d be fascinated by the thought processes behind these re-organisations.
    Sadly I do suspect a lot of gerrymandering.

    And of course the changes will ensure that rural areas are dominated by the adjacent urban areas so making things like new building developments easier.

    They will do almost nothing to save costs. There will be a few very senior managerial jobs that will go but because of the TUPE rules they cannot use the reorganisation as an excuse for layoffs, nor can they change pay and conditions. And given that they will still need to use existing district and county council offices because they still need to do all the jobs that are currently being done and need the office spce for that, there will be little or no real-estate savings.

    This is all being driven entirely by political considerations and is a centralising rather than decentralising move. A real retrograde step.
    I don't think centralisation is always bad and decentralising always good. I think that is often the case, so it gets treated like it is universal, with the result that sometimes people centralise but have to pretend they are not.

    I think the principle behind the drive towards unitarisation is a good one particularly given the very limited resources for local government. I don't think districts and county councils are necessary or particularly effective. Existing unitaries show that things like real estate savings and managerial reductions will likely come over time.

    Now, some of the choices for the reorganisations are certainly questionable to say the least, so some of the areas as proposed are not ideal, but the way divisions are pulled together by the LGBCE (now or in a later review) makes political gerrymandering a lot harder than people think, as they do not just follow what the local councils or a party tells them - they often the local council suggestion as a starting point, since they have the most resources to suggest an all-council proposal, but local comments can change things a lot.

    I made a public comment on one in my area, and it was cited as reason to make a fairly significant set of changes against even the wishes of the councillor who represented that area.

    It's very peculiar that the final call has been dropped now, but my contacts in this area tell me it's because Steve Reed is an arse.
    Could be about clearing the decks before Burnham's Great Reshuffle- allow the programme to slip much more and the May 2027 elections start to look precarious.

    The other fun game (if you like that sort of fun game) is to compare what's coming out to the Redcliffe-Maud map of nearly 60 years ago. It looks like we're ending up with somewhat smaller units, and better respect for counties, but the logic is similar.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcliffe-Maud_Report#/media/File:RedcliffeMaudReportMap1969.png
    Cheshire/Merseyside/GM looks quite different but they've kind of been done in past years anyway.

    Lancashire looks almost the same, except the RedcliffeMaud one twins Preston with Leyland [South Ribble] and Chorley, which as I said before is a contiguous urban development (even more now than it was 60 years ago) while today's proposal separates them and twins Preston with Lancaster, with which it has nothing other than party affiliation in common.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,253
    Looks like another evening ahead of 'America has totally lost its mind'.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,253
    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...


    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford

    Exclusive:

    Andy Burnham is facing a revolt from his core support on the Labour left over his plans to appoint Shabana Mahmood over Ed Miliband as chancellor amid claims that she lacks an economic vision and is too divisive for the role

    Burnham is expected to confirm Mahmood, the home secretary, as his chancellor on Monday after being warned that Miliband risks becoming a lightning rod for criticism of the government

    However, Mahmood, who is on the right of the Labour Party, has never held an economic position in government and has said relatively little about her fiscal views in the past. Her hardline immigration reforms have proved particularly contentious on the left

    A senior ally of Burnham said: “Shabana has no sense of the economics. It’s just not something she’s ever spoken about. She’s not collaborative. It’s not clear how she would drive the machine.”


    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2077860858437288181
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,253
    The King of the North has not even kissed hands and already Labour is splitting over whether a radical like Ed M should be CoE or a continuity Starmer/Reeves figure like Mahmoud.

    FFS.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,416
    edited 9:57PM

    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...


    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford

    Exclusive:

    Andy Burnham is facing a revolt from his core support on the Labour left over his plans to appoint Shabana Mahmood over Ed Miliband as chancellor amid claims that she lacks an economic vision and is too divisive for the role

    Burnham is expected to confirm Mahmood, the home secretary, as his chancellor on Monday after being warned that Miliband risks becoming a lightning rod for criticism of the government

    However, Mahmood, who is on the right of the Labour Party, has never held an economic position in government and has said relatively little about her fiscal views in the past. Her hardline immigration reforms have proved particularly contentious on the left

    A senior ally of Burnham said: “Shabana has no sense of the economics. It’s just not something she’s ever spoken about. She’s not collaborative. It’s not clear how she would drive the machine.”

    I'd rather somebody who has no idea how to drive than someone who would drive us off a cliff.

    A dismal choice, but what we face with the current government, over and over again.

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