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Andy Burnham’s manifesto destiny – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,533
    This is one of the things about manufacturing: record profits only come to those who stay in the game.

    Korean media reported that Kim Yong-kwan, President and Head of Business Strategy at Samsung Electronics’ Device Solutions division, said during a DS division management town hall meeting on July 3 that this year’s operating profit is expected to be in line with market consensus.

    Korean brokerages estimate Samsung’s operating profit this year at around KRW 300 trillion, or roughly USD 200 billion.

    In particular, Kim reportedly said, “This year’s profit alone will exceed the cumulative profit generated over the 40 years since Samsung entered the semiconductor business.”

    https://x.com/jukan05/status/2073965646799593763
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,314

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    LOL. For someone who is supposed to be well travelled you have a particularly narrow view of the world. Taking the piss out of your neighbours is ingrained into every country I have ever lived or worked in - close to 30 at last count. And yes it is turned into a world view in all those countries as well. It is certainly not something to rant about, nor is it 'offensive'.

    You need to grow a sense of humour.
    That is the standard response to any criticism of what the English deem to be the virtue beyond all virtues "a good sense of humour".

    It is because I am indeed pretty well traveled and am also reasonably multi lingual, that I notice, time after time, the fact that your "sense of humour" many cultures just find irritating. More to the point, the jokes are mostly in-jokes that are just not recognized away from the UK cultural space, so the response is not a gentle chuckle, it is bafflement- a bit like an embarrassing uncle at Christmas. The other problem is that the joke is usually the first and only thing that comes to mind when dealing with foreigners. I was in London at a conference on Friday and two English speakers hijacked an entire session cracking exactly these kinds of jokes about history.

    The subject was future developments in technology. The majority non English audience just viewed the whole thing with a mild disbelief.
    You know why the sun didn't set on the British Empire?

    God didn't trust the British in the dark!
    I though the traditional version was that "God was afraid of what the British would get up to in the dark"?

    The French surrender thing dates to 1940 - when the French Government folded like damp cardboard.
    Because the Perfidious Brits ran away? :lol:
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,949
    edited 10:04AM

    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    MelonB said:

    IanB2 said:

    MelonB said:

    I didn’t watch the match, which means I’m fresh as a daisy this morning. But those that did, please explain why this was such a great performance? The stats look abject.

    34% possession, 262 passes to Mexico’s 465, 2 corners their 12… sounds awful, like a typical old style England performance. Backs to the wall, can’t keep possession, can’t pass the ball l, just boot it upfield. Spend the whole time in our own box. Oh and we got someone sent off.

    I’ve watched enough of those sorts of embarrassing games in my time. Usually people mutter afterwards about how lucky we were, what a poor performance. Yet you were all impressed. What gives?

    Pretty much every player did well (you can make a case against Saka and the guy who was sent off, but the rest all did their job), two great goals from play, some outstanding saves from Pickford, and few glaring mistakes despite having the crowd and at times the referee against us. Add tons of excitement and drama and the nerve-wracking wait for the final whistle and you have a perfect match, at least as entertainment.
    Thanks. Was an interesting phenomenon to wake to such universal praise for the team.

    The priority for the footballing world now is for Belgium to boot the USA out of the competition in as emphatic a way as possible. It’s striking how American commenters, from all sides of politics, simply don’t notice the foul stench of what Trump and Infantino cooked up over the weekend. They do not get it.
    The US commentary seems to be either 'nothing to see here', or 'everyone knows FIFA has been corrupt since forever; nothing to see here'.
    That's the thing about corruption, if you don't crack down on it it spreads ever further and eventually becomes the norm. Then you end up living in a society where police stop motorists for bribes to let them go, every business transaction has someone on the take, getting any official to do their job requires some sort of favour or payment to grease the wheels. America will end up operating like Russia much faster than many of them think, and they may already have passed the point of no return.
    Like New York construction used to be? Or is that just hackneyed mafia movie hokum?
    New York construction is still not clean - things like shadow jobs etc.

    But it is much better than it was. Organised crime literally ran stuff like the concrete industry until Giuliani & Co. busted the 5 families.
    And are there any famous American presidents who earned their spurs in that New York property development system? Who live and breathe intimidation, favours and pay-offs, and do not understand this is not normal?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,957
    https://x.com/martynziegler/status/2074064259474915347

    @martynziegler
    UEFA calls FIFA decision on Balogun suspension "unprecedented, incomprehensible and unjustifiable"



    https://x.com/TheAthleticFC/status/2074024394171580587

    @TheAthleticFC
    Belgium has been granted the right to appeal against FIFA’s decision to suspend the one-game ban handed to Folarin Balogun, less than 24 hours out from the team’s round of 16 game against the United States.

    Sources have now told The Athletic the Belgian federation has formally written to FIFA to appeal the matter, and the right to appeal has been granted.

    Both U.S. Soccer and the Belgian federation were asked to make submissions by 5am PST on Monday morning, which has exasperated the Belgians who have not received the decision by FIFA to review, as it is not made public.

    A member of the FIFA appeals committee – who does not represent a federation in either UEFA or CONCACAF, so as to avoid any potential conflict of interest – has been selected to hear the case.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,236
    edited 10:07AM
    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    Self deprecating humour used to be a British speciality and we were very good at it but unfortunately it's now turned into the vulgar and tedious right wing guff that we see on here daily
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,735

    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    MelonB said:

    IanB2 said:

    MelonB said:

    I didn’t watch the match, which means I’m fresh as a daisy this morning. But those that did, please explain why this was such a great performance? The stats look abject.

    34% possession, 262 passes to Mexico’s 465, 2 corners their 12… sounds awful, like a typical old style England performance. Backs to the wall, can’t keep possession, can’t pass the ball l, just boot it upfield. Spend the whole time in our own box. Oh and we got someone sent off.

    I’ve watched enough of those sorts of embarrassing games in my time. Usually people mutter afterwards about how lucky we were, what a poor performance. Yet you were all impressed. What gives?

    Pretty much every player did well (you can make a case against Saka and the guy who was sent off, but the rest all did their job), two great goals from play, some outstanding saves from Pickford, and few glaring mistakes despite having the crowd and at times the referee against us. Add tons of excitement and drama and the nerve-wracking wait for the final whistle and you have a perfect match, at least as entertainment.
    Thanks. Was an interesting phenomenon to wake to such universal praise for the team.

    The priority for the footballing world now is for Belgium to boot the USA out of the competition in as emphatic a way as possible. It’s striking how American commenters, from all sides of politics, simply don’t notice the foul stench of what Trump and Infantino cooked up over the weekend. They do not get it.
    The US commentary seems to be either 'nothing to see here', or 'everyone knows FIFA has been corrupt since forever; nothing to see here'.
    That's the thing about corruption, if you don't crack down on it it spreads ever further and eventually becomes the norm. Then you end up living in a society where police stop motorists for bribes to let them go, every business transaction has someone on the take, getting any official to do their job requires some sort of favour or payment to grease the wheels. America will end up operating like Russia much faster than many of them think, and they may already have passed the point of no return.
    Like New York construction used to be? Or is that just hackneyed mafia movie hokum?
    New York construction is still not clean - things like shadow jobs etc.

    But it is much better than it was. Organised crime literally ran stuff like the concrete industry until Giuliani & Co. busted the 5 families.
    And then, sadly, Guiliani went quite mad.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,949

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    LOL. For someone who is supposed to be well travelled you have a particularly narrow view of the world. Taking the piss out of your neighbours is ingrained into every country I have ever lived or worked in - close to 30 at last count. And yes it is turned into a world view in all those countries as well. It is certainly not something to rant about, nor is it 'offensive'.

    You need to grow a sense of humour.
    That is the standard response to any criticism of what the English deem to be the virtue beyond all virtues "a good sense of humour".

    It is because I am indeed pretty well traveled and am also reasonably multi lingual, that I notice, time after time, the fact that your "sense of humour" many cultures just find irritating. More to the point, the jokes are mostly in-jokes that are just not recognized away from the UK cultural space, so the response is not a gentle chuckle, it is bafflement- a bit like an embarrassing uncle at Christmas. The other problem is that the joke is usually the first and only thing that comes to mind when dealing with foreigners. I was in London at a conference on Friday and two English speakers hijacked an entire session cracking exactly these kinds of jokes about history.

    The subject was future developments in technology. The majority non English audience just viewed the whole thing with a mild disbelief.
    You know why the sun didn't set on the British Empire?

    God didn't trust the British in the dark!
    I though the traditional version was that "God was afraid of what the British would get up to in the dark"?

    The French surrender thing dates to 1940 - when the French Government folded like damp cardboard. The contrast to WWI etc was very marked and sparked things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collapse_of_the_Third_Republic - which took the line that it was down to corruption and infiltration of institutions by rich, foreign influenced individuals who wanted to bring down democracy.
    Cheese-eating surrender monkeys comes from a single episode of The Simpsons and was most likely intended as just a joke rather than serious historical commentary.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P-YjEchcng

    Though of course the fall of France in less time than a Liz Truss premiership did take everyone (including the Germans) by surprise.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,601

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    LOL. For someone who is supposed to be well travelled you have a particularly narrow view of the world. Taking the piss out of your neighbours is ingrained into every country I have ever lived or worked in - close to 30 at last count. And yes it is turned into a world view in all those countries as well. It is certainly not something to rant about, nor is it 'offensive'.

    You need to grow a sense of humour.
    That is the standard response to any criticism of what the English deem to be the virtue beyond all virtues "a good sense of humour".

    It is because I am indeed pretty well traveled and am also reasonably multi lingual, that I notice, time after time, the fact that your "sense of humour" many cultures just find irritating. More to the point, the jokes are mostly in-jokes that are just not recognized away from the UK cultural space, so the response is not a gentle chuckle, it is bafflement- a bit like an embarrassing uncle at Christmas. The other problem is that the joke is usually the first and only thing that comes to mind when dealing with foreigners. I was in London at a conference on Friday and two English speakers hijacked an entire session cracking exactly these kinds of jokes about history.

    The subject was future developments in technology. The majority non English audience just viewed the whole thing with a mild disbelief.
    You know why the sun didn't set on the British Empire?

    God didn't trust the British in the dark!
    I though the traditional version was that "God was afraid of what the British would get up to in the dark"?

    The French surrender thing dates to 1940 - when the French Government folded like damp cardboard. The contrast to WWI etc was very marked and sparked things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collapse_of_the_Third_Republic - which took the line that it was down to corruption and infiltration of institutions by rich, foreign influenced individuals who wanted to bring down democracy.

    Where were the French Communists in 1940? I know the British party was anti-war or at least pro-neutral until Hitler invaded the Soviet Union. I also seem to recall that the French Communists were an important part of the Resistance, in some areas at least.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,533
    .

    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    MelonB said:

    IanB2 said:

    MelonB said:

    I didn’t watch the match, which means I’m fresh as a daisy this morning. But those that did, please explain why this was such a great performance? The stats look abject.

    34% possession, 262 passes to Mexico’s 465, 2 corners their 12… sounds awful, like a typical old style England performance. Backs to the wall, can’t keep possession, can’t pass the ball l, just boot it upfield. Spend the whole time in our own box. Oh and we got someone sent off.

    I’ve watched enough of those sorts of embarrassing games in my time. Usually people mutter afterwards about how lucky we were, what a poor performance. Yet you were all impressed. What gives?

    Pretty much every player did well (you can make a case against Saka and the guy who was sent off, but the rest all did their job), two great goals from play, some outstanding saves from Pickford, and few glaring mistakes despite having the crowd and at times the referee against us. Add tons of excitement and drama and the nerve-wracking wait for the final whistle and you have a perfect match, at least as entertainment.
    Thanks. Was an interesting phenomenon to wake to such universal praise for the team.

    The priority for the footballing world now is for Belgium to boot the USA out of the competition in as emphatic a way as possible. It’s striking how American commenters, from all sides of politics, simply don’t notice the foul stench of what Trump and Infantino cooked up over the weekend. They do not get it.
    The US commentary seems to be either 'nothing to see here', or 'everyone knows FIFA has been corrupt since forever; nothing to see here'.
    That's the thing about corruption, if you don't crack down on it it spreads ever further and eventually becomes the norm. Then you end up living in a society where police stop motorists for bribes to let them go, every business transaction has someone on the take, getting any official to do their job requires some sort of favour or payment to grease the wheels. America will end up operating like Russia much faster than many of them think, and they may already have passed the point of no return.
    Like New York construction used to be? Or is that just hackneyed mafia movie hokum?
    New York construction is still not clean - things like shadow jobs etc.

    But it is much better than it was. Organised crime literally ran stuff like the concrete industry until Giuliani & Co. busted the 5 families.
    And are there any famous American presidents who earned their spurs in that New York property development system? Who live and breathe intimidation, favours and pay-offs, and do not understand this is not normal?
    I'm drawing a blank.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,957
    Roger said:

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    Self deprecating humour used to be a British speciality and we were very good at it but unfortunately it's now turned into the vulgar and tedious right wing guff that we see on here daily
    Sandy being described as right wing says it all about you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,533

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    LOL. For someone who is supposed to be well travelled you have a particularly narrow view of the world. Taking the piss out of your neighbours is ingrained into every country I have ever lived or worked in - close to 30 at last count. And yes it is turned into a world view in all those countries as well. It is certainly not something to rant about, nor is it 'offensive'.

    You need to grow a sense of humour.
    That is the standard response to any criticism of what the English deem to be the virtue beyond all virtues "a good sense of humour".

    It is because I am indeed pretty well traveled and am also reasonably multi lingual, that I notice, time after time, the fact that your "sense of humour" many cultures just find irritating. More to the point, the jokes are mostly in-jokes that are just not recognized away from the UK cultural space, so the response is not a gentle chuckle, it is bafflement- a bit like an embarrassing uncle at Christmas. The other problem is that the joke is usually the first and only thing that comes to mind when dealing with foreigners. I was in London at a conference on Friday and two English speakers hijacked an entire session cracking exactly these kinds of jokes about history.

    The subject was future developments in technology. The majority non English audience just viewed the whole thing with a mild disbelief.
    You know why the sun didn't set on the British Empire?

    God didn't trust the British in the dark!
    I though the traditional version was that "God was afraid of what the British would get up to in the dark"?

    The French surrender thing dates to 1940 - when the French Government folded like damp cardboard. The contrast to WWI etc was very marked and sparked things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collapse_of_the_Third_Republic - which took the line that it was down to corruption and infiltration of institutions by rich, foreign influenced individuals who wanted to bring down democracy.

    Where were the French Communists in 1940? I know the British party was anti-war or at least pro-neutral until Hitler invaded the Soviet Union. I also seem to recall that the French Communists were an important part of the Resistance, in some areas at least.
    It didn't start off like that.
    They followed Moscow's lead.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_French_Communist_Party#The_Popular_Front_(1934–1939)
    Germany and the Soviet Union signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact in August 1939, forming neutrality between both ideological rivals. The non-aggression pact between the Nazis and Moscow dismayed many French communists, a number of whom rejected the pact. A fifth of the PCF's caucus left the party, forming a dissident parliamentary group.

    Shortly after France entered World War II in September 1939, the PCF was declared a proscribed organisation by Édouard Daladier's government. At first the PCF reaffirmed its commitment to national defense, but after the Comintern addressed French Communists by declaring the war to be 'imperialist', the party changed its stance. PCF parliamentarians signed a letter calling for peace and viewed Hitler's forthcoming peace proposals favourably. The Comintern ordered the PCF leadership to flee to Belgium, while Maurice Thorez, on Georgi Dimitrov's orders, deserted the army and fled to Moscow in order to escape prosecution. The PCF became a clandestine organization, at first rather disorganized.[9] In France, the government dissolved all Communist-led local administrations, cracked down on communist trade unionists and targeted the L'Humanité newspaper.[10] The government decreed that any communist propaganda, assimilated to Nazi propaganda, would be punished by the death penalty. After Communist Party was dissolved by the government, the Communist group in the Chamber was replaced by the French Workers' and Peasants' Group, whose president was Arthur Ramette and whose general secretary was Florimond Bonte.

    Domestically, the PCF led anti-war actions, but although the party published pacifist propaganda for soldiers they stopped short of inciting desertion. The role of the PCF in alleged sabotage operations, against armaments plants, has been a point of debate among historians. In 1951, A. Rossi listed a number of sabotage operations initiated by the PCF against armaments factories throughout France,[11] but later historians have downplayed the PCF's role in any such actions, stating that they were isolated cases...


    (Thorez was known as the "French Stalin" I believe.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,275
    edited 10:24AM
    I think Belgium's best chance is probably if a CONMEBOL official gets the hearing tbh.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,275
    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/martynziegler/status/2074064259474915347

    @martynziegler
    UEFA calls FIFA decision on Balogun suspension "unprecedented, incomprehensible and unjustifiable"



    https://x.com/TheAthleticFC/status/2074024394171580587

    @TheAthleticFC
    Belgium has been granted the right to appeal against FIFA’s decision to suspend the one-game ban handed to Folarin Balogun, less than 24 hours out from the team’s round of 16 game against the United States.

    Sources have now told The Athletic the Belgian federation has formally written to FIFA to appeal the matter, and the right to appeal has been granted.

    Both U.S. Soccer and the Belgian federation were asked to make submissions by 5am PST on Monday morning, which has exasperated the Belgians who have not received the decision by FIFA to review, as it is not made public.

    A member of the FIFA appeals committee – who does not represent a federation in either UEFA or CONCACAF, so as to avoid any potential conflict of interest – has been selected to hear the case.

    Could be a truly amazing world cup, worth it's weight in gold for whichever AFC, AFCON or CONMEBOL official gets the hearing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,601
    Nigelb said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    LOL. For someone who is supposed to be well travelled you have a particularly narrow view of the world. Taking the piss out of your neighbours is ingrained into every country I have ever lived or worked in - close to 30 at last count. And yes it is turned into a world view in all those countries as well. It is certainly not something to rant about, nor is it 'offensive'.

    You need to grow a sense of humour.
    That is the standard response to any criticism of what the English deem to be the virtue beyond all virtues "a good sense of humour".

    It is because I am indeed pretty well traveled and am also reasonably multi lingual, that I notice, time after time, the fact that your "sense of humour" many cultures just find irritating. More to the point, the jokes are mostly in-jokes that are just not recognized away from the UK cultural space, so the response is not a gentle chuckle, it is bafflement- a bit like an embarrassing uncle at Christmas. The other problem is that the joke is usually the first and only thing that comes to mind when dealing with foreigners. I was in London at a conference on Friday and two English speakers hijacked an entire session cracking exactly these kinds of jokes about history.

    The subject was future developments in technology. The majority non English audience just viewed the whole thing with a mild disbelief.
    You know why the sun didn't set on the British Empire?

    God didn't trust the British in the dark!
    I though the traditional version was that "God was afraid of what the British would get up to in the dark"?

    The French surrender thing dates to 1940 - when the French Government folded like damp cardboard. The contrast to WWI etc was very marked and sparked things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collapse_of_the_Third_Republic - which took the line that it was down to corruption and infiltration of institutions by rich, foreign influenced individuals who wanted to bring down democracy.

    Where were the French Communists in 1940? I know the British party was anti-war or at least pro-neutral until Hitler invaded the Soviet Union. I also seem to recall that the French Communists were an important part of the Resistance, in some areas at least.
    It didn't start off like that.
    They followed Moscow's lead.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_French_Communist_Party#The_Popular_Front_(1934–1939)
    Germany and the Soviet Union signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact in August 1939, forming neutrality between both ideological rivals. The non-aggression pact between the Nazis and Moscow dismayed many French communists, a number of whom rejected the pact. A fifth of the PCF's caucus left the party, forming a dissident parliamentary group.

    Shortly after France entered World War II in September 1939, the PCF was declared a proscribed organisation by Édouard Daladier's government. At first the PCF reaffirmed its commitment to national defense, but after the Comintern addressed French Communists by declaring the war to be 'imperialist', the party changed its stance. PCF parliamentarians signed a letter calling for peace and viewed Hitler's forthcoming peace proposals favourably. The Comintern ordered the PCF leadership to flee to Belgium, while Maurice Thorez, on Georgi Dimitrov's orders, deserted the army and fled to Moscow in order to escape prosecution. The PCF became a clandestine organization, at first rather disorganized.[9] In France, the government dissolved all Communist-led local administrations, cracked down on communist trade unionists and targeted the L'Humanité newspaper.[10] The government decreed that any communist propaganda, assimilated to Nazi propaganda, would be punished by the death penalty. After Communist Party was dissolved by the government, the Communist group in the Chamber was replaced by the French Workers' and Peasants' Group, whose president was Arthur Ramette and whose general secretary was Florimond Bonte.

    Domestically, the PCF led anti-war actions, but although the party published pacifist propaganda for soldiers they stopped short of inciting desertion. The role of the PCF in alleged sabotage operations, against armaments plants, has been a point of debate among historians. In 1951, A. Rossi listed a number of sabotage operations initiated by the PCF against armaments factories throughout France,[11] but later historians have downplayed the PCF's role in any such actions, stating that they were isolated cases...


    (Thorez was known as the "French Stalin" I believe.)
    Merci beaucoup!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,149

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    LOL. For someone who is supposed to be well travelled you have a particularly narrow view of the world. Taking the piss out of your neighbours is ingrained into every country I have ever lived or worked in - close to 30 at last count. And yes it is turned into a world view in all those countries as well. It is certainly not something to rant about, nor is it 'offensive'.

    You need to grow a sense of humour.
    That is the standard response to any criticism of what the English deem to be the virtue beyond all virtues "a good sense of humour".

    It is because I am indeed pretty well traveled and am also reasonably multi lingual, that I notice, time after time, the fact that your "sense of humour" many cultures just find irritating. More to the point, the jokes are mostly in-jokes that are just not recognized away from the UK cultural space, so the response is not a gentle chuckle, it is bafflement- a bit like an embarrassing uncle at Christmas. The other problem is that the joke is usually the first and only thing that comes to mind when dealing with foreigners. I was in London at a conference on Friday and two English speakers hijacked an entire session cracking exactly these kinds of jokes about history.

    The subject was future developments in technology. The majority non English audience just viewed the whole thing with a mild disbelief.
    You know why the sun didn't set on the British Empire?

    God didn't trust the British in the dark!
    I though the traditional version was that "God was afraid of what the British would get up to in the dark"?

    The French surrender thing dates to 1940 - when the French Government folded like damp cardboard. The contrast to WWI etc was very marked and sparked things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collapse_of_the_Third_Republic - which took the line that it was down to corruption and infiltration of institutions by rich, foreign influenced individuals who wanted to bring down democracy.

    Where were the French Communists in 1940? I know the British party was anti-war or at least pro-neutral until Hitler invaded the Soviet Union. I also seem to recall that the French Communists were an important part of the Resistance, in some areas at least.
    The Comintern line in 1940 was that the war with Germany was a Capitalist war and that The Workers should obstruct/avoid it. Remember that the USSR had just signed the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact and Comintern was literally run from Moscow.

    My grandfather (along with a number of others), in the Glasgow shipyards, had some disagreements* with the Communists - who were doing wild cat strikes/go slows.

    Much the same pertained to France

    All that vanished on 22nd June 1941, strangely.

    *Some were a rather free and frank exchange of views.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,533
    edited 10:27AM
    Thoughts and prayers for our determined carnivores.

    Reduced meat and dairy consumption improves health, environmental and most nutritional outcomes without increasing diet costs among Scottish adults
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-026-01384-3

    But there is nuance.

    Methionine-supplemented longevity diet increases growth hormone, GLP-1, and FGF21; reduces frailty; and promotes healthspan
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1550413126002251?via=ihub
    Southern European countries have some of the highest life expectancies in the world, yet they display relatively high frailty. We examined different diets to identify compositions that promote both healthspan and strength in mice. The western and ketogenic diets increased fat mass and frailty and increased either cholesterol or insulin resistance, whereas a low-protein longevity diet, modeling the traditional Mediterranean and Okinawan diets but supplemented with methionine (LDMM), reduced fat mass and frailty while improving cardiometabolic markers. LDMM reduced insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-1 while increasing growth hormone, GLP-1, and fibroblast growth factor (FGF)21, which was required for fat loss and insulin sensitivity. Bimonthly cycles of a 4-day fasting-mimicking diet instead improved metabolic markers. A cross-sectional analysis of epidemiological data from over 200,000 men and women indicates that those with the highest animal protein intake tended to have a healthier lifestyle but had approximately double the prevalence of type 2 diabetes compared with those in the lowest intake group. These findings indicate that mostly plant-based low-amino-acid diets have the most potent effects on healthspan but require moderate methionine intake to minimize frailty...

    (Tofu, for example, contains methionine, but you'd have to eat nearly a kilo of it to reach the RDA.)
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,824

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    LOL. For someone who is supposed to be well travelled you have a particularly narrow view of the world. Taking the piss out of your neighbours is ingrained into every country I have ever lived or worked in - close to 30 at last count. And yes it is turned into a world view in all those countries as well. It is certainly not something to rant about, nor is it 'offensive'.

    You need to grow a sense of humour.
    That is the standard response to any criticism of what the English deem to be the virtue beyond all virtues "a good sense of humour".

    It is because I am indeed pretty well traveled and am also reasonably multi lingual, that I notice, time after time, the fact that your "sense of humour" many cultures just find irritating. More to the point, the jokes are mostly in-jokes that are just not recognized away from the UK cultural space, so the response is not a gentle chuckle, it is bafflement- a bit like an embarrassing uncle at Christmas. The other problem is that the joke is usually the first and only thing that comes to mind when dealing with foreigners. I was in London at a conference on Friday and two English speakers hijacked an entire session cracking exactly these kinds of jokes about history.

    The subject was future developments in technology. The majority non English audience just viewed the whole thing with a mild disbelief.
    You know why the sun didn't set on the British Empire?

    God didn't trust the British in the dark!
    I though the traditional version was that "God was afraid of what the British would get up to in the dark"?

    The French surrender thing dates to 1940 - when the French Government folded like damp cardboard. The contrast to WWI etc was very marked and sparked things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collapse_of_the_Third_Republic - which took the line that it was down to corruption and infiltration of institutions by rich, foreign influenced individuals who wanted to bring down democracy.
    Cheese-eating surrender monkeys comes from a single episode of The Simpsons and was most likely intended as just a joke rather than serious historical commentary.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P-YjEchcng

    Though of course the fall of France in less time than a Liz Truss premiership did take everyone (including the Germans) by surprise.
    It's also worth noting that the episode in question aired halfway through Clinton's first term - way before Bush's Iraq kerfuffles.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,149
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/martynziegler/status/2074064259474915347

    @martynziegler
    UEFA calls FIFA decision on Balogun suspension "unprecedented, incomprehensible and unjustifiable"



    https://x.com/TheAthleticFC/status/2074024394171580587

    @TheAthleticFC
    Belgium has been granted the right to appeal against FIFA’s decision to suspend the one-game ban handed to Folarin Balogun, less than 24 hours out from the team’s round of 16 game against the United States.

    Sources have now told The Athletic the Belgian federation has formally written to FIFA to appeal the matter, and the right to appeal has been granted.

    Both U.S. Soccer and the Belgian federation were asked to make submissions by 5am PST on Monday morning, which has exasperated the Belgians who have not received the decision by FIFA to review, as it is not made public.

    A member of the FIFA appeals committee – who does not represent a federation in either UEFA or CONCACAF, so as to avoid any potential conflict of interest – has been selected to hear the case.

    Could be a truly amazing world cup, worth it's weight in gold for whichever AFC, AFCON or CONMEBOL official gets the hearing.
    Diamond encrusted platinum, Shirley?

    Solid gold would be too cheap and too tasteful.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,533

    Nigelb said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    LOL. For someone who is supposed to be well travelled you have a particularly narrow view of the world. Taking the piss out of your neighbours is ingrained into every country I have ever lived or worked in - close to 30 at last count. And yes it is turned into a world view in all those countries as well. It is certainly not something to rant about, nor is it 'offensive'.

    You need to grow a sense of humour.
    That is the standard response to any criticism of what the English deem to be the virtue beyond all virtues "a good sense of humour".

    It is because I am indeed pretty well traveled and am also reasonably multi lingual, that I notice, time after time, the fact that your "sense of humour" many cultures just find irritating. More to the point, the jokes are mostly in-jokes that are just not recognized away from the UK cultural space, so the response is not a gentle chuckle, it is bafflement- a bit like an embarrassing uncle at Christmas. The other problem is that the joke is usually the first and only thing that comes to mind when dealing with foreigners. I was in London at a conference on Friday and two English speakers hijacked an entire session cracking exactly these kinds of jokes about history.

    The subject was future developments in technology. The majority non English audience just viewed the whole thing with a mild disbelief.
    You know why the sun didn't set on the British Empire?

    God didn't trust the British in the dark!
    I though the traditional version was that "God was afraid of what the British would get up to in the dark"?

    The French surrender thing dates to 1940 - when the French Government folded like damp cardboard. The contrast to WWI etc was very marked and sparked things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collapse_of_the_Third_Republic - which took the line that it was down to corruption and infiltration of institutions by rich, foreign influenced individuals who wanted to bring down democracy.

    Where were the French Communists in 1940? I know the British party was anti-war or at least pro-neutral until Hitler invaded the Soviet Union. I also seem to recall that the French Communists were an important part of the Resistance, in some areas at least.
    It didn't start off like that.
    They followed Moscow's lead.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_French_Communist_Party#The_Popular_Front_(1934–1939)
    Germany and the Soviet Union signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact in August 1939, forming neutrality between both ideological rivals. The non-aggression pact between the Nazis and Moscow dismayed many French communists, a number of whom rejected the pact. A fifth of the PCF's caucus left the party, forming a dissident parliamentary group.

    Shortly after France entered World War II in September 1939, the PCF was declared a proscribed organisation by Édouard Daladier's government. At first the PCF reaffirmed its commitment to national defense, but after the Comintern addressed French Communists by declaring the war to be 'imperialist', the party changed its stance. PCF parliamentarians signed a letter calling for peace and viewed Hitler's forthcoming peace proposals favourably. The Comintern ordered the PCF leadership to flee to Belgium, while Maurice Thorez, on Georgi Dimitrov's orders, deserted the army and fled to Moscow in order to escape prosecution. The PCF became a clandestine organization, at first rather disorganized.[9] In France, the government dissolved all Communist-led local administrations, cracked down on communist trade unionists and targeted the L'Humanité newspaper.[10] The government decreed that any communist propaganda, assimilated to Nazi propaganda, would be punished by the death penalty. After Communist Party was dissolved by the government, the Communist group in the Chamber was replaced by the French Workers' and Peasants' Group, whose president was Arthur Ramette and whose general secretary was Florimond Bonte.

    Domestically, the PCF led anti-war actions, but although the party published pacifist propaganda for soldiers they stopped short of inciting desertion. The role of the PCF in alleged sabotage operations, against armaments plants, has been a point of debate among historians. In 1951, A. Rossi listed a number of sabotage operations initiated by the PCF against armaments factories throughout France,[11] but later historians have downplayed the PCF's role in any such actions, stating that they were isolated cases...


    (Thorez was known as the "French Stalin" I believe.)
    Merci beaucoup!
    De rien.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,642
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/martynziegler/status/2074064259474915347

    @martynziegler
    UEFA calls FIFA decision on Balogun suspension "unprecedented, incomprehensible and unjustifiable"



    https://x.com/TheAthleticFC/status/2074024394171580587

    @TheAthleticFC
    Belgium has been granted the right to appeal against FIFA’s decision to suspend the one-game ban handed to Folarin Balogun, less than 24 hours out from the team’s round of 16 game against the United States.

    Sources have now told The Athletic the Belgian federation has formally written to FIFA to appeal the matter, and the right to appeal has been granted.

    Both U.S. Soccer and the Belgian federation were asked to make submissions by 5am PST on Monday morning, which has exasperated the Belgians who have not received the decision by FIFA to review, as it is not made public.

    A member of the FIFA appeals committee – who does not represent a federation in either UEFA or CONCACAF, so as to avoid any potential conflict of interest – has been selected to hear the case.

    Could be a truly amazing world cup, worth it's weight in gold for whichever AFC, AFCON or CONMEBOL official gets the hearing.
    The only person in all this that I feel sorry for is Balogun himself.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,957
    This is a very good point.

    https://x.com/AdamCrafton_/status/2074079888433099083

    @AdamCrafton_
    Something FIFA appear to have completely underestimated when signing off Balogun decision is the current U.S. administration will always prioritize claiming credit over how something is seen optically, and if (in their eyes) it winds up buttoned-up Europeans, then even better.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,403
    edited 10:43AM

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    LOL. For someone who is supposed to be well travelled you have a particularly narrow view of the world. Taking the piss out of your neighbours is ingrained into every country I have ever lived or worked in - close to 30 at last count. And yes it is turned into a world view in all those countries as well. It is certainly not something to rant about, nor is it 'offensive'.

    You need to grow a sense of humour.
    That is the standard response to any criticism of what the English deem to be the virtue beyond all virtues "a good sense of humour".

    It is because I am indeed pretty well traveled and am also reasonably multi lingual, that I notice, time after time, the fact that your "sense of humour" many cultures just find irritating. More to the point, the jokes are mostly in-jokes that are just not recognized away from the UK cultural space, so the response is not a gentle chuckle, it is bafflement- a bit like an embarrassing uncle at Christmas. The other problem is that the joke is usually the first and only thing that comes to mind when dealing with foreigners. I was in London at a conference on Friday and two English speakers hijacked an entire session cracking exactly these kinds of jokes about history.

    The subject was future developments in technology. The majority non English audience just viewed the whole thing with a mild disbelief.
    You know why the sun didn't set on the British Empire?

    God didn't trust the British in the dark!
    I though the traditional version was that "God was afraid of what the British would get up to in the dark"?

    The French surrender thing dates to 1940 - when the French Government folded like damp cardboard. The contrast to WWI etc was very marked and sparked things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collapse_of_the_Third_Republic - which took the line that it was down to corruption and infiltration of institutions by rich, foreign influenced individuals who wanted to bring down democracy.
    I'm not sure that's entirely right as the French folded up just as badly and almost as quickly in 1870.

    Also in 1898 over Fashoda without a shot being fired (and Charles de Gaulle never forgave the English for that).

    And France's bizarre abandonment of NATO's military structure in 1966 during the Cold War.

    World War I was the exception.

    But yes 1940 was a particularly spectacular example of a nation collapsing before one it actually outgunned in some ways.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,314
    Fishing said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    LOL. For someone who is supposed to be well travelled you have a particularly narrow view of the world. Taking the piss out of your neighbours is ingrained into every country I have ever lived or worked in - close to 30 at last count. And yes it is turned into a world view in all those countries as well. It is certainly not something to rant about, nor is it 'offensive'.

    You need to grow a sense of humour.
    That is the standard response to any criticism of what the English deem to be the virtue beyond all virtues "a good sense of humour".

    It is because I am indeed pretty well traveled and am also reasonably multi lingual, that I notice, time after time, the fact that your "sense of humour" many cultures just find irritating. More to the point, the jokes are mostly in-jokes that are just not recognized away from the UK cultural space, so the response is not a gentle chuckle, it is bafflement- a bit like an embarrassing uncle at Christmas. The other problem is that the joke is usually the first and only thing that comes to mind when dealing with foreigners. I was in London at a conference on Friday and two English speakers hijacked an entire session cracking exactly these kinds of jokes about history.

    The subject was future developments in technology. The majority non English audience just viewed the whole thing with a mild disbelief.
    You know why the sun didn't set on the British Empire?

    God didn't trust the British in the dark!
    I though the traditional version was that "God was afraid of what the British would get up to in the dark"?

    The French surrender thing dates to 1940 - when the French Government folded like damp cardboard. The contrast to WWI etc was very marked and sparked things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collapse_of_the_Third_Republic - which took the line that it was down to corruption and infiltration of institutions by rich, foreign influenced individuals who wanted to bring down democracy.
    I'm not sure that's entirely right as the French folded up just as badly and almost as quickly in 1870.

    Also in 1898 over Fashoda without a shot being fired (and Charles de Gaulle never forgave the English for that).

    World War I was the exception.

    But yes 1940 was a particularly spectacular example of a nation collapsing before one it actually outgunned in some ways.
    Brits ran away, leaving the French to their fate...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,442
    Well done England on their excellent win over Mexico last night
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,442
    'ANDY Burnham has rejected a second Scottish independence referendum if he becomes prime minister. Burnham told MPs that he is "not willing to consider" a second vote, despite his support for further devolution.

    The former Greater Manchester Mayor made the comments during a meeting with Scottish Labour MPs last week, the Mail on Sunday reports.'

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/26253826.andy-burnham-rejects-second-scottish-independence-referendum/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,149
    edited 10:46AM
    Fishing said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    LOL. For someone who is supposed to be well travelled you have a particularly narrow view of the world. Taking the piss out of your neighbours is ingrained into every country I have ever lived or worked in - close to 30 at last count. And yes it is turned into a world view in all those countries as well. It is certainly not something to rant about, nor is it 'offensive'.

    You need to grow a sense of humour.
    That is the standard response to any criticism of what the English deem to be the virtue beyond all virtues "a good sense of humour".

    It is because I am indeed pretty well traveled and am also reasonably multi lingual, that I notice, time after time, the fact that your "sense of humour" many cultures just find irritating. More to the point, the jokes are mostly in-jokes that are just not recognized away from the UK cultural space, so the response is not a gentle chuckle, it is bafflement- a bit like an embarrassing uncle at Christmas. The other problem is that the joke is usually the first and only thing that comes to mind when dealing with foreigners. I was in London at a conference on Friday and two English speakers hijacked an entire session cracking exactly these kinds of jokes about history.

    The subject was future developments in technology. The majority non English audience just viewed the whole thing with a mild disbelief.
    You know why the sun didn't set on the British Empire?

    God didn't trust the British in the dark!
    I though the traditional version was that "God was afraid of what the British would get up to in the dark"?

    The French surrender thing dates to 1940 - when the French Government folded like damp cardboard. The contrast to WWI etc was very marked and sparked things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collapse_of_the_Third_Republic - which took the line that it was down to corruption and infiltration of institutions by rich, foreign influenced individuals who wanted to bring down democracy.
    I'm not sure that's entirely right as the French folded up just as badly and almost as quickly in 1870.

    Also in 1898 over Fashoda without a shot being fired (and Charles de Gaulle never forgave the English for that).

    And France's bizarre abandonment of NATO's military structure in 1966 during the Cold War.

    World War I was the exception.

    But yes 1940 was a particularly spectacular example of a nation collapsing before one it actually outgunned in some ways.
    The French fought hard in 1870 - just were over matched. See the Siege of Paris, and the many executions of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francs-tireurs

    Fashoda was part of the pivot towards a UK/France alliance that prevented the Germans steamrollering France in WWI.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,888
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    MelonB said:

    IanB2 said:

    MelonB said:

    I didn’t watch the match, which means I’m fresh as a daisy this morning. But those that did, please explain why this was such a great performance? The stats look abject.

    34% possession, 262 passes to Mexico’s 465, 2 corners their 12… sounds awful, like a typical old style England performance. Backs to the wall, can’t keep possession, can’t pass the ball l, just boot it upfield. Spend the whole time in our own box. Oh and we got someone sent off.

    I’ve watched enough of those sorts of embarrassing games in my time. Usually people mutter afterwards about how lucky we were, what a poor performance. Yet you were all impressed. What gives?

    Pretty much every player did well (you can make a case against Saka and the guy who was sent off, but the rest all did their job), two great goals from play, some outstanding saves from Pickford, and few glaring mistakes despite having the crowd and at times the referee against us. Add tons of excitement and drama and the nerve-wracking wait for the final whistle and you have a perfect match, at least as entertainment.
    Thanks. Was an interesting phenomenon to wake to such universal praise for the team.

    The priority for the footballing world now is for Belgium to boot the USA out of the competition in as emphatic a way as possible. It’s striking how American commenters, from all sides of politics, simply don’t notice the foul stench of what Trump and Infantino cooked up over the weekend. They do not get it.
    The US commentary seems to be either 'nothing to see here', or 'everyone knows FIFA has been corrupt since forever; nothing to see here'.
    That's the thing about corruption, if you don't crack down on it it spreads ever further and eventually becomes the norm. Then you end up living in a society where police stop motorists for bribes to let them go, every business transaction has someone on the take, getting any official to do their job requires some sort of favour or payment to grease the wheels. America will end up operating like Russia much faster than many of them think, and they may already have passed the point of no return.
    Why do you say "will"?

    Even Trump's published disclosure report showed him making $2bn+ in the last year, riddled with obvious corruption / illegality.

    He's going to be dependent on getting a pardon.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2026/06/30/trump-financial-disclosure-released.html
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,275
    tlg86 said:

    This is a very good point.

    https://x.com/AdamCrafton_/status/2074079888433099083

    @AdamCrafton_
    Something FIFA appear to have completely underestimated when signing off Balogun decision is the current U.S. administration will always prioritize claiming credit over how something is seen optically, and if (in their eyes) it winds up buttoned-up Europeans, then even better.

    UEFA's statement is a strong one, but it is the only serious opposition to Infantino within FIFA. My guess is the decision will be upheld, Infantino is wildly popular with the smaller nations - which is why I think a CONMEBOL offers some, not much, but some hope of applying the correct decision. Belgium might as well not turn up if there is an AFCON or AFC official there.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,489

    NEW THREAD

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,339
    edited 10:57AM
    MattW said:

    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    MelonB said:

    IanB2 said:

    MelonB said:

    I didn’t watch the match, which means I’m fresh as a daisy this morning. But those that did, please explain why this was such a great performance? The stats look abject.

    34% possession, 262 passes to Mexico’s 465, 2 corners their 12… sounds awful, like a typical old style England performance. Backs to the wall, can’t keep possession, can’t pass the ball l, just boot it upfield. Spend the whole time in our own box. Oh and we got someone sent off.

    I’ve watched enough of those sorts of embarrassing games in my time. Usually people mutter afterwards about how lucky we were, what a poor performance. Yet you were all impressed. What gives?

    Pretty much every player did well (you can make a case against Saka and the guy who was sent off, but the rest all did their job), two great goals from play, some outstanding saves from Pickford, and few glaring mistakes despite having the crowd and at times the referee against us. Add tons of excitement and drama and the nerve-wracking wait for the final whistle and you have a perfect match, at least as entertainment.
    Thanks. Was an interesting phenomenon to wake to such universal praise for the team.

    The priority for the footballing world now is for Belgium to boot the USA out of the competition in as emphatic a way as possible. It’s striking how American commenters, from all sides of politics, simply don’t notice the foul stench of what Trump and Infantino cooked up over the weekend. They do not get it.
    The US commentary seems to be either 'nothing to see here', or 'everyone knows FIFA has been corrupt since forever; nothing to see here'.
    That's the thing about corruption, if you don't crack down on it it spreads ever further and eventually becomes the norm. Then you end up living in a society where police stop motorists for bribes to let them go, every business transaction has someone on the take, getting any official to do their job requires some sort of favour or payment to grease the wheels. America will end up operating like Russia much faster than many of them think, and they may already have passed the point of no return.
    Why do you say "will"?

    Even Trump's published disclosure report showed him making $2bn+ in the last year, riddled with obvious corruption / illegality.

    He's going to be dependent on getting a pardon.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2026/06/30/trump-financial-disclosure-released.html
    Trump has no moral edge over Putin whatsoever. It's only the (weakened but still present) US checks and balances that prevent him doing (insert whatever absolute horror takes your fancy).
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,558
    edited 11:06AM
    Roger said:

    Battlebus said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    This is the greatest World Cup performance by England in my lifetime.

    This is the first time we've ever beaten a host nation.

    I have just watched the highlights. Sensational performance. Bring on the Vikings!
    From the highlights package Bellingham was simply sensational. 2 good goals and an incredible goal saving tackle in his own penalty box.
    Agree that Bellingham is having a good WC but noticed that Harry gets all the attention.
    He's easier to parody
    Kane is great at what he does = score goals and he's a very good Captain.

    Bellingham is still only 22. He's the complete midfield player, a 10 who can score goals, an 8 who can sit and dictate play and a 4 who can sit in the hole and charge forwards if needed. Thats why he's no 22 for his Clubs 4+8+10 (that's a true story)

    His best moment last night wasn't 2 goals, wasn't an incredible sequence ofplay overshadowed by the sending off, it was the running back and saving an almost certain goal at 2-1. That's what defines the "complete" player.

    I'm convinced he could become, in a more adanced and midfield role the player that Duncan Edwards tragically never had the chance to become in a more midfield / defensive role.

    That would make him on a par with Edwards - the greatest England player ever imho

    Of course Southern based player like Kane hog the media, Bellingham is from the precise same Metropolitan Borough as Edwards, has the local accent which toff media hates!

    Never begrudge Kane the plaudits though, he's the current talisman, Bellingham the heir apparent!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,058
    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hattifattener.bsky.social‬

    As in 1066 England will prevail against the Norwegians before tragically losing to the French a couple of weeks later.

    Normans*. After 1066, the king of France did not become king of England.
    Yeah, although weren’t the Normans ex-pat Norwegians really?

    Bloody ex-pats!

    (With apologies to @Sandpit !)
    Speaking French, living in France, adopting French names. Sounds like they assimilated well. What more do you want?
    To be truly French they would have landed at Hastings and surrendered.
    This American inspired meme of "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is increasingly irritating.

    For example, you know that 100 years war? You're taught about Crecy and Agincourt, which were temporary victories... You are taught about burning Joan of Arc...who, in the English mind was a cheat for being a woman. You are not taught about Castillon- the final battle of the war.... A decisive and complete French victory. Sure denigrating the French is a joke, but as I see more often when I am in the UK, you believe the amusing memes are true.

    And its not just the French, where the joke is not the reality, and the way that the English turn their jokes and memes into a world view just makes them look unserious and borderline offensive. Fine when you rule the waves, but when you need partnerships it becomes a liability. Funny foreigners is part of the root of Brexit and is increasingly why even the friends of the UK just want to get past the inevitable silliness and start to talk like adults.

    FFS UK, GROW UP!
    You are quite right.

    The French would never do this and name major railway stations after famous military victories, or raise a triumphant arch dedicated to remembering them either.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,565
    ...
    Roger said:

    Looks like Labour have chosen a lucky general!

    Has Farage ever looked shabbier?

    Farage is Labour's new general?
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,148
    Brixian59 said:

    Roger said:

    Battlebus said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    This is the greatest World Cup performance by England in my lifetime.

    This is the first time we've ever beaten a host nation.

    I have just watched the highlights. Sensational performance. Bring on the Vikings!
    From the highlights package Bellingham was simply sensational. 2 good goals and an incredible goal saving tackle in his own penalty box.
    Agree that Bellingham is having a good WC but noticed that Harry gets all the attention.
    He's easier to parody
    Kane is great at what he does = score goals and he's a very good Captain.

    Bellingham is still only 22. He's the complete midfield player, a 10 who can score goals, an 8 who can sit and dictate play and a 4 who can sit in the hole and charge forwards if needed. Thats why he's no 22 for his Clubs 4+8+10 (that's a true story)

    His best moment last night wasn't 2 goals, wasn't an incredible sequence ofplay overshadowed by the sending off, it was the running back and saving an almost certain goal at 2-1. That's what defines the "complete" player.

    I'm convinced he could become, in a more adanced and midfield role the player that Duncan Edwards tragically never had the chance to become in a more midfield / defensive role.

    That would make him on a par with Edwards - the greatest England player ever imho

    Of course Southern based player like Kane hog the media, Bellingham is from the precise same Metropolitan Borough as Edwards, has the local accent which toff media hates!

    Never begrudge Kane the plaudits though, he's the current talisman, Bellingham the heir apparent!
    Yeah. Jude is not a Brummie, he’s from Stourbridge. A rather nice part of the world.
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