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Another potential exciting by-election? – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,344
    edited 7:27PM
    The ban about talking about the grooming gangs is still in place.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,694
    edited 7:24PM
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I take very little interest in football - this evening's racing at Epsom is much more to my taste.

    Having reviewed the permutations, it seems to me for England to win the World Cup we will likely need to beat Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and France - to be fair, if we can do that, we will deserve to lift the Jules Rimet trophy.

    We certainly would and we are not going to. Argentina will win it and are value. France, not so much. Spain might be value too.
    Of course we can win it. Mexico aren't a particularly good team. Brazil are no more than solid. Argentina are a one man band. France are flat track bullies.
    I watched France last night. The forward line of Mbappe, Barcola, Olise and Dembele played possibly the most glorious attacking football I've seen in my long life. Okay, it was only Sweden, but they looked capable of slicing through any side like butter.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,230

    The ban about talking about the grooming gangs is still off limits.

    The ban is off limits???

    #confused
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,306
    edited 7:27PM

    England not doing well in the cricket either.

    Looks like the weather is going to save them there. Yes, match abandoned.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,344

    The ban about talking about the grooming gangs is still off limits.

    The ban is off limits???

    #confused
    See my edit
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,695
    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    But it IS the left's fault. Look at me. I've just been made a smidgeon more jingoistic by a woman who abhors the England flag. Repeat thousands of times over.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,866
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I take very little interest in football - this evening's racing at Epsom is much more to my taste.

    Having reviewed the permutations, it seems to me for England to win the World Cup we will likely need to beat Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and France - to be fair, if we can do that, we will deserve to lift the Jules Rimet trophy.

    We certainly would and we are not going to. Argentina will win it and are value. France, not so much. Spain might be value too.
    Of course we can win it. Mexico aren't a particularly good team. Brazil are no more than solid. Argentina are a one man band. France are flat track bullies.
    But USA have home advantage.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,233

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    If I flew an England flag in my garden most people would assume I was a Reform/Tommy 10 names supporter.

    Therein lies the problem and I think it explains why I have seen so few England flags on cars this world cup - a decade ago they would be everywhere during an international tournament.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,695
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    We'll give all we've got to give for the folks back home.

    Best ever England football song. You can stick your Baddiel Lightening Seeds and your New Order Barnes rap up your arse.

    Going to play it right now in fact.
    Love's got the world in motion
    and I can't believe it's true!
    Going to play them all - still wearing my England shirt which sort of counts as a flag imo.

    Hope I'm not peaking too early. That was only a last 32 game against the Democratic Republic of Congo.
    Very big country, the DRC. When was the last time England beat a country that large? Not to be snizzled at.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,230

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    We'll give all we've got to give for the folks back home.

    Best ever England football song. You can stick your Baddiel Lightening Seeds and your New Order Barnes rap up your arse.

    Going to play it right now in fact.
    Love's got the world in motion
    and I can't believe it's true!
    Mancunian band for our Mancunian PM!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,232

    kinabalu said:

    So, just so I know, all this nonsense about we're now bound to lose to Mexico ... is this the PB cricket etiquette being rolled out for football now?

    It's worth a shot...
    Thought so. I'll bear it in mind.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,932

    The ban about talking about the grooming gangs is still in place.

    Sorry - think this may be about me. I had genuinely forgotten about the ban and was just passing on Manc mayor news.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,232

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I take very little interest in football - this evening's racing at Epsom is much more to my taste.

    Having reviewed the permutations, it seems to me for England to win the World Cup we will likely need to beat Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and France - to be fair, if we can do that, we will deserve to lift the Jules Rimet trophy.

    We certainly would and we are not going to. Argentina will win it and are value. France, not so much. Spain might be value too.
    Of course we can win it. Mexico aren't a particularly good team. Brazil are no more than solid. Argentina are a one man band. France are flat track bullies.
    I watched France last night. The forward line of Mbappe, Barcola, Olise and Dembele played possibly the most glorious attacking football I've seen in my long life. Okay, it was only Sweden, but they looked capable of slicing through any side like butter.
    Yes I saw it too. Could have been 7. But we are miles better than Sweden.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,695
    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,306

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I take very little interest in football - this evening's racing at Epsom is much more to my taste.

    Having reviewed the permutations, it seems to me for England to win the World Cup we will likely need to beat Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and France - to be fair, if we can do that, we will deserve to lift the Jules Rimet trophy.

    We certainly would and we are not going to. Argentina will win it and are value. France, not so much. Spain might be value too.
    Of course we can win it. Mexico aren't a particularly good team. Brazil are no more than solid. Argentina are a one man band. France are flat track bullies.
    I watched France last night. The forward line of Mbappe, Barcola, Olise and Dembele played possibly the most glorious attacking football I've seen in my long life. Okay, it was only Sweden, but they looked capable of slicing through any side like butter.
    They were superb. On another night they could have had 7.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,232
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    We'll give all we've got to give for the folks back home.

    Best ever England football song. You can stick your Baddiel Lightening Seeds and your New Order Barnes rap up your arse.

    Going to play it right now in fact.
    Love's got the world in motion
    and I can't believe it's true!
    Going to play them all - still wearing my England shirt which sort of counts as a flag imo.

    Hope I'm not peaking too early. That was only a last 32 game against the Democratic Republic of Congo.
    Very big country, the DRC. When was the last time England beat a country that large? Not to be snizzled at.
    No easy games in international football.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,344

    The ban about talking about the grooming gangs is still in place.

    Sorry - think this may be about me. I had genuinely forgotten about the ban and was just passing on Manc mayor news.

    It's more aimed at the repeat offenders.

    I am in the process of allowing discussions of this topic because somebody suggested a decent idea.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,230
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    We'll give all we've got to give for the folks back home.

    Best ever England football song. You can stick your Baddiel Lightening Seeds and your New Order Barnes rap up your arse.

    Going to play it right now in fact.
    Love's got the world in motion
    and I can't believe it's true!
    Going to play them all - still wearing my England shirt which sort of counts as a flag imo.

    Hope I'm not peaking too early. That was only a last 32 game against the Democratic Republic of Congo.
    Very big country, the DRC. When was the last time England beat a country that large? Not to be snizzled at.
    Mbutu, King Leopold, your boys took a hell of a beating!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,695
    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She's wrong. The flag is fine for England games. Either wave or wear or display.
    I wish we as a nation weren't so embarrassed about our flags. Go to, say, Greece, and their flags are everywhere. I would argue that it's only in any way a far right thing because the polite classes so firmly disavow it. Though I concede cause and effect goes both ways here. But I wish it weren't so. The flag is everyone's.
    The issue is we have 2 flags. The Union flag, which is iconic, uncontroversial and rather like the stars and stripes in its crossover into fashion (go to France and be bemused and delighted by the Union flag cushions you see in people's homes); and the St George cross which has for decades been associated first with England football hooliganism abroad during tournaments, and more recently with some of the same people doing far right marches. For better of worse it's got itself associations not dissimilar to the Serbian or confederate flags.

    That's why world cups and Euros are such a great opportunity to reclaim it. After all it's just a red cross on a white background.

    I think we should make it cooler by redesigning as an offset, Nordic style cross.
    Have you ever seen the Peter Savill design fir a flag for the North West of England? I rather like it:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_flag_of_North_West_England
    Ooh, inverting the Nordic shape. I like it.
    Also basically the North Western bit of the England flag.
    The idea is only good the first time though. If the East Midlands just did the centre right bit if the flag it would start to look a little unoriginal.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,851

    On the topic:

    Fraser Nelson
    @FraserNelson

    NEW: The Times has established that Nigel Farage and his partner own at least five homes spanning Surrey, Essex and Kent.

    All but one were bought with cash since 2000. Farage described himself as "skint" in 2017.

    Well, he certainly monetised his 21 years as an MEP. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,232
    edited 7:39PM
    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    Yes but I don't want to be cherishing the flag all day every day just to reclaim it. I'd rather the far right toned it down a bit and kept it in their trousers (except when there's an England game).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,230
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    We'll give all we've got to give for the folks back home.

    Best ever England football song. You can stick your Baddiel Lightening Seeds and your New Order Barnes rap up your arse.

    Going to play it right now in fact.
    Love's got the world in motion
    and I can't believe it's true!
    Going to play them all - still wearing my England shirt which sort of counts as a flag imo.

    Hope I'm not peaking too early. That was only a last 32 game against the Democratic Republic of Congo.
    Very big country, the DRC. When was the last time England beat a country that large? Not to be snizzled at.
    Mbutu, King Leopold, your boys took a hell of a beating!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,344
    edited 7:42PM
    The £5 million is the gift that keeps on giving for Farage's opponents.

    Reform donor’s fuel company linked to Russia-supplied refinery

    Christopher Harborne’s AML Global has contracts to supply aircraft fuel produced by an Indian refinery that regularly receives Russian crude oil


    Reform UK’s biggest donor owns a company contracted to supply fuel to aircraft from refineries that make extensive use of Russian oil, The Times can reveal.

    The billionaire Christopher Harborne, 63, has interests varying from the cryptocurrency company Tether to the private jet-leasing firm Sherriff Global. He is also the owner of AML Global, a fuel supplier.

    The British-Thai businessman has donated £15 million to Reform since last year, and gave Nigel Farage, the party’s leader, a gift of £5 million shortly before he became an MP in 2024.

    This donation is being investigated by the parliamentary commissioner for standards over concerns it should have been declared on his register of interests. A Reform UK spokesperson said to their knowledge, none of the £5 million gift from Farage was drawn from AML dividends.

    The gift attracted further political controversy in May after comments from John Healey, then the defence secretary, who in a letter to Farage sought assurances that none of the profits of the £5 million were “derived from transactions with Russian state-linked energy companies”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-uk-donor-christopher-harborne-8t2z8ptbr
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,222
    MelonB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    There is hardly any far-right in this country, probably less than almost any other country.
    Levels of racism are, consistently based on surveys, lower in the UK than most other places. Likewise levels of intolerance in other areas such as sexuality and gender. But sadly, through the mafia tactics I mentioned earlier and through the active promotion of far right views by an unholy alliance of Russian troll farms, the Trump administration and Elon Musk, the days of "hardly any" are long gone.
    You missed the baleful influence of our print media.
  • CharlieSharkCharlieShark Posts: 484
    Another recently elected Reform councillor calls it a day:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3eywy8lnpno
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,964
    I don't like the man at all but is there really much of a Reform without Farage at the head of it? A bunch of randos and some Tory defectors you might vaguely remember?
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,050
    Cry God for Harry


  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,222

    The £5 million is the gift that keeps on giving for Farage's opponents.

    Reform donor’s fuel company linked to Russia-supplied refinery

    Christopher Harborne’s AML Global has contracts to supply aircraft fuel produced by an Indian refinery that regularly receives Russian crude oil


    Reform UK’s biggest donor owns a company contracted to supply fuel to aircraft from refineries that make extensive use of Russian oil, The Times can reveal.

    The billionaire Christopher Harborne, 63, has interests varying from the cryptocurrency company Tether to the private jet-leasing firm Sherriff Global. He is also the owner of AML Global, a fuel supplier.

    The British-Thai businessman has donated £15 million to Reform since last year, and gave Nigel Farage, the party’s leader, a gift of £5 million shortly before he became an MP in 2024.

    This donationbomb is being investigated by the parliamentary commissioner for standards over concerns it should have been declared on his register of interests. A Reform UK spokesperson said to their knowledge, none of the £5 million gift from Farage was drawn from AML dividends.

    The gift attracted further political controversy in May after comments from John Healey, then the defence secretary, who in a letter to Farage sought assurances that none of the profits of the £5 million were “derived from transactions with Russian state-linked energy companies”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-uk-donor-christopher-harborne-8t2z8ptbr

    Keep going Ukraine! When you bomb Russian refineries you could also help starve Farage of funds.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,731
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    We'll give all we've got to give for the folks back home.

    Best ever England football song. You can stick your Baddiel Lightening Seeds and your New Order Barnes rap up your arse.

    Going to play it right now in fact.
    Love's got the world in motion
    and I can't believe it's true!
    Going to play them all - still wearing my England shirt which sort of counts as a flag imo.

    Hope I'm not peaking too early. That was only a last 32 game against the Democratic Republic of Congo.
    Very big country, the DRC. When was the last time England beat a country that large? Not to be snizzled at.
    I have seen KInshasa - across the 5-mile wide Congo River from Brazzaville.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,521
    edited 7:52PM
    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    She isn’t intimidated by it. She's using her disdain for it as an opportunity to illicit affirmation of her vapid left wing political sympathies from her peers.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,521
    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,344
    Russian spies considered Mandelson a ‘privileged contact’

    Claims contained in former MI6 agent’s dossier denied by sources close to disgraced peer


    A secret dossier compiled by a former MI6 agent claims that Lord Mandelson was considered a “privileged contact” by Russian intelligence.

    According to the leaked report, codenamed Project Fish, Moscow spymasters regarded the disgraced peer as “one of the most significant RIS [Russian intelligence services] achievements in manipulating UK politics” over the past 30 years.

    The dossier, compiled by Christopher Steele, a former head of MI6’s Russia desk, alleges that Lord Mandelson was first contacted by the KGB shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    Mr Steele came to public attention as the author of a highly controversial and contested report about Donald Trump. It has now emerged that he also compiled a report on British political figures targeted by Russian spies.

    As well as Lord Mandelson, Project Fish alleges that the Kremlin built up files on Boris Johnson, Mr Johnson’s former adviser Dominic Cummings, Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn, among others.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/01/lord-mandelson-privileged-contact-russian-spies/
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,465
    Taz said:

    Cry God for Harry


    The Scots'll love that.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,964
    carnforth said:

    Taz said:

    Cry God for Harry


    The Scots'll love that.
    Looks like snow, some heatwave.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,050

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    She isn’t intimidated by it. She's using her disdain for it as an opportunity to illicit affirmation of her vapid left wing political sympathies from her peers.
    Elicit
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,731

    Russian spies considered Mandelson a ‘privileged contact’

    Claims contained in former MI6 agent’s dossier denied by sources close to disgraced peer


    A secret dossier compiled by a former MI6 agent claims that Lord Mandelson was considered a “privileged contact” by Russian intelligence.

    According to the leaked report, codenamed Project Fish, Moscow spymasters regarded the disgraced peer as “one of the most significant RIS [Russian intelligence services] achievements in manipulating UK politics” over the past 30 years.

    The dossier, compiled by Christopher Steele, a former head of MI6’s Russia desk, alleges that Lord Mandelson was first contacted by the KGB shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    Mr Steele came to public attention as the author of a highly controversial and contested report about Donald Trump. It has now emerged that he also compiled a report on British political figures targeted by Russian spies.

    As well as Lord Mandelson, Project Fish alleges that the Kremlin built up files on Boris Johnson, Mr Johnson’s former adviser Dominic Cummings, Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn, among others.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/01/lord-mandelson-privileged-contact-russian-spies/

    To be fair, The Kremlin would be doing a shit job if it didn't compile a file on each of them.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,786
    I suppose it's fortunate Kane's first name is Harry as we can get all Agincourt about it.

    Were his first time to be Cuthbert, Percival or Nathaniel it might be more difficult.

    Anyroadup, on to more serious matters and I'm musing on housing.

    Even in downtown East London, the market has faltered with a glut of property now on possibly because of changes to renting and landlords. The property glut means there are a lot of older houses which can't be sold, there are a lot of newer flats which aren't moving and there's no incentive to start any new construction projects.

    It all sounds like a classic series of short term poorly thought through nonsense - build a lot of new property which no one can afford to meet a demand which doesn't exist and then change the renting rules to bring even more property on the market forgetting that for many people their property isn't just their only asset, it's their pension but apparently we just have to build whatever the costs and the consequences.

    Meanwhile, most housing remains out of reach of those who really need it. Perhaps developers should take a haircut, sell to the local council and let them put those on the housing waiting list in the new builds (or asylum seekers, it all seems to be the same).

    I'd be interested to see how Burnham responds to this.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,786

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    We'll give all we've got to give for the folks back home.

    Best ever England football song. You can stick your Baddiel Lightening Seeds and your New Order Barnes rap up your arse.

    Going to play it right now in fact.
    Love's got the world in motion
    and I can't believe it's true!
    Going to play them all - still wearing my England shirt which sort of counts as a flag imo.

    Hope I'm not peaking too early. That was only a last 32 game against the Democratic Republic of Congo.
    Very big country, the DRC. When was the last time England beat a country that large? Not to be snizzled at.
    I have seen KInshasa - across the 5-mile wide Congo River from Brazzaville.
    The army of Laurent Kabila crossed it in 1997 from the Rwandan border to KInshasa where they overhrew Mobutu who was a tyrant but he was our tyrant during the Cold War.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,288

    Russian spies considered Mandelson a ‘privileged contact’

    Claims contained in former MI6 agent’s dossier denied by sources close to disgraced peer


    A secret dossier compiled by a former MI6 agent claims that Lord Mandelson was considered a “privileged contact” by Russian intelligence.

    According to the leaked report, codenamed Project Fish, Moscow spymasters regarded the disgraced peer as “one of the most significant RIS [Russian intelligence services] achievements in manipulating UK politics” over the past 30 years.

    The dossier, compiled by Christopher Steele, a former head of MI6’s Russia desk, alleges that Lord Mandelson was first contacted by the KGB shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    Mr Steele came to public attention as the author of a highly controversial and contested report about Donald Trump. It has now emerged that he also compiled a report on British political figures targeted by Russian spies.

    As well as Lord Mandelson, Project Fish alleges that the Kremlin built up files on Boris Johnson, Mr Johnson’s former adviser Dominic Cummings, Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn, among others.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/01/lord-mandelson-privileged-contact-russian-spies/

    Exactly what I was saying earlier. Buying a few tanks is no substitute for exposing and countering Russian subversion of our politics.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,232

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    She isn’t intimidated by it. She's using her disdain for it as an opportunity to illicit affirmation of her vapid left wing political sympathies from her peers.
    Oh you were there too then?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,465
    Foxy said:

    Russian spies considered Mandelson a ‘privileged contact’

    Claims contained in former MI6 agent’s dossier denied by sources close to disgraced peer


    A secret dossier compiled by a former MI6 agent claims that Lord Mandelson was considered a “privileged contact” by Russian intelligence.

    According to the leaked report, codenamed Project Fish, Moscow spymasters regarded the disgraced peer as “one of the most significant RIS [Russian intelligence services] achievements in manipulating UK politics” over the past 30 years.

    The dossier, compiled by Christopher Steele, a former head of MI6’s Russia desk, alleges that Lord Mandelson was first contacted by the KGB shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    Mr Steele came to public attention as the author of a highly controversial and contested report about Donald Trump. It has now emerged that he also compiled a report on British political figures targeted by Russian spies.

    As well as Lord Mandelson, Project Fish alleges that the Kremlin built up files on Boris Johnson, Mr Johnson’s former adviser Dominic Cummings, Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn, among others.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/01/lord-mandelson-privileged-contact-russian-spies/

    Exactly what I was saying earlier. Buying a few tanks is no substitute for exposing and countering Russian subversion of our politics.
    So the Remain campaign was infiltrated by Russians? I knew it! :smile:
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,710

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
    It is a dirge. And it isn't even an English anthem. Get rid.

    Vindaloo would fire up the lads.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,290

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
    It is a dirge. And it isn't even an English anthem. Get rid.

    Vindaloo would fire up the lads.
    Wonderwall would do. Fits with the Manchesterisation of everything. Maybe change the name to Wonderball.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,933
    DavidL said:

    nico67 said:

    Rashford and Madueke need to be subbed .

    Madueke should never have even been on the plane. He’s been shocking in every game.
    Nonsense. He’s been pretty decent for England so far having won the pen in the first game and set up a great chance in the first half tonight. He’s not as good as Saka (very few are), but he’s a decent back up.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,364
    Taz said:

    Cry God for Harry


    What is going on in that image? Why is Scotland the colour of the England flag. Indeed, it's kind of merging into the England flag. And why is Wales enveloped in shadow?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,660

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
    It is a dirge. And it isn't even an English anthem. Get rid.

    Vindaloo would fire up the lads.
    True story. I was in New Zealand for the 1998 world cup. Completely missed 'vindaloo'. It obviously never reached the land of Crowded House. I did give blood immediately after watching England honour on penalties yet again... I pity whoever revived that bag of blood and a serving of existential angst.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,178

    Taz said:

    Cry God for Harry


    What is going on in that image? Why is Scotland the colour of the England flag. Indeed, it's kind of merging into the England flag. And why is Wales enveloped in shadow?
    That’s just how it is
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,605
    Belgium to win 2-1 is my prediction.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,125
    Interesting takes on the recent defence plan

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC8Lpw87uME
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyMC9IjZmPo

    [TLDR: it's imaginative, and if properly funded and nurtured it could work, but it won't be.]
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,964

    Taz said:

    Cry God for Harry


    What is going on in that image? Why is Scotland the colour of the England flag. Indeed, it's kind of merging into the England flag. And why is Wales enveloped in shadow?
    Looks like Age of Empires crossed with the old weather map in the docks from This Morning.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,322
    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Russian spies considered Mandelson a ‘privileged contact’

    Claims contained in former MI6 agent’s dossier denied by sources close to disgraced peer


    A secret dossier compiled by a former MI6 agent claims that Lord Mandelson was considered a “privileged contact” by Russian intelligence.

    According to the leaked report, codenamed Project Fish, Moscow spymasters regarded the disgraced peer as “one of the most significant RIS [Russian intelligence services] achievements in manipulating UK politics” over the past 30 years.

    The dossier, compiled by Christopher Steele, a former head of MI6’s Russia desk, alleges that Lord Mandelson was first contacted by the KGB shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    Mr Steele came to public attention as the author of a highly controversial and contested report about Donald Trump. It has now emerged that he also compiled a report on British political figures targeted by Russian spies.

    As well as Lord Mandelson, Project Fish alleges that the Kremlin built up files on Boris Johnson, Mr Johnson’s former adviser Dominic Cummings, Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn, among others.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/01/lord-mandelson-privileged-contact-russian-spies/

    Exactly what I was saying earlier. Buying a few tanks is no substitute for exposing and countering Russian subversion of our politics.
    So the Remain campaign was infiltrated by Russians? I knew it! :smile:
    They were so inept they might as well have been.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,325

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
    It is a dirge. And it isn't even an English anthem. Get rid.

    Vindaloo would fire up the lads.
    Wonderwall would do. Fits with the Manchesterisation of everything. Maybe change the name to Wonderball.
    Blue Monday

    My New Order live memories are scarred by a woman nearby constantly shouting "play World in Motion"
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,866

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
    It is a dirge. And it isn't even an English anthem. Get rid.

    Vindaloo would fire up the lads.
    God save … is awful. And in ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ we have a tune to hand that would trump the Marseillaise, and written by our greatest composer to boot. Use it ffs.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,465

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Russian spies considered Mandelson a ‘privileged contact’

    Claims contained in former MI6 agent’s dossier denied by sources close to disgraced peer


    A secret dossier compiled by a former MI6 agent claims that Lord Mandelson was considered a “privileged contact” by Russian intelligence.

    According to the leaked report, codenamed Project Fish, Moscow spymasters regarded the disgraced peer as “one of the most significant RIS [Russian intelligence services] achievements in manipulating UK politics” over the past 30 years.

    The dossier, compiled by Christopher Steele, a former head of MI6’s Russia desk, alleges that Lord Mandelson was first contacted by the KGB shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    Mr Steele came to public attention as the author of a highly controversial and contested report about Donald Trump. It has now emerged that he also compiled a report on British political figures targeted by Russian spies.

    As well as Lord Mandelson, Project Fish alleges that the Kremlin built up files on Boris Johnson, Mr Johnson’s former adviser Dominic Cummings, Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn, among others.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/01/lord-mandelson-privileged-contact-russian-spies/

    Exactly what I was saying earlier. Buying a few tanks is no substitute for exposing and countering Russian subversion of our politics.
    So the Remain campaign was infiltrated by Russians? I knew it! :smile:
    They were so inept they might as well have been.
    Hiring Jack Straw's pot-smoking idiot son to run it may have been a mistake. Mandelson might have won it...
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,096

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
    It is a dirge. And it isn't even an English anthem. Get rid.

    Vindaloo would fire up the lads.
    God save … is awful. And in ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ we have a tune to hand that would trump the Marseillaise, and written by our greatest composer to boot. Use it ffs.
    Infinitely better, agreed.

    I have always felt Don't Stop Me Now would be a good anthem.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,686
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Russian spies considered Mandelson a ‘privileged contact’

    Claims contained in former MI6 agent’s dossier denied by sources close to disgraced peer


    A secret dossier compiled by a former MI6 agent claims that Lord Mandelson was considered a “privileged contact” by Russian intelligence.

    According to the leaked report, codenamed Project Fish, Moscow spymasters regarded the disgraced peer as “one of the most significant RIS [Russian intelligence services] achievements in manipulating UK politics” over the past 30 years.

    The dossier, compiled by Christopher Steele, a former head of MI6’s Russia desk, alleges that Lord Mandelson was first contacted by the KGB shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    Mr Steele came to public attention as the author of a highly controversial and contested report about Donald Trump. It has now emerged that he also compiled a report on British political figures targeted by Russian spies.

    As well as Lord Mandelson, Project Fish alleges that the Kremlin built up files on Boris Johnson, Mr Johnson’s former adviser Dominic Cummings, Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn, among others.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/01/lord-mandelson-privileged-contact-russian-spies/

    Exactly what I was saying earlier. Buying a few tanks is no substitute for exposing and countering Russian subversion of our politics.
    So the Remain campaign was infiltrated by Russians? I knew it! :smile:
    They were so inept they might as well have been.
    Hiring Jack Straw's pot-smoking idiot son to run it may have been a mistake. Mandelson might have won it...
    Technically, there is no evidence he was smoking pot.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,288

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Russian spies considered Mandelson a ‘privileged contact’

    Claims contained in former MI6 agent’s dossier denied by sources close to disgraced peer


    A secret dossier compiled by a former MI6 agent claims that Lord Mandelson was considered a “privileged contact” by Russian intelligence.

    According to the leaked report, codenamed Project Fish, Moscow spymasters regarded the disgraced peer as “one of the most significant RIS [Russian intelligence services] achievements in manipulating UK politics” over the past 30 years.

    The dossier, compiled by Christopher Steele, a former head of MI6’s Russia desk, alleges that Lord Mandelson was first contacted by the KGB shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    Mr Steele came to public attention as the author of a highly controversial and contested report about Donald Trump. It has now emerged that he also compiled a report on British political figures targeted by Russian spies.

    As well as Lord Mandelson, Project Fish alleges that the Kremlin built up files on Boris Johnson, Mr Johnson’s former adviser Dominic Cummings, Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn, among others.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/01/lord-mandelson-privileged-contact-russian-spies/

    Exactly what I was saying earlier. Buying a few tanks is no substitute for exposing and countering Russian subversion of our politics.
    So the Remain campaign was infiltrated by Russians? I knew it! :smile:
    They were so inept they might as well have been.
    The Russian aim with their troll farms, and political subversion which goes way beyond compiling files, involves stirring up antagonism on both sides, so yes, I expect so, but Putin was dancing as we commited our biggest foreign policy error since Suez. He only topped Brexit by getting his useful idiot as POTUS.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,226
    I defend God Save the King as an anthem at sport events (though it is often sung too slowly) because it is very easy to sing it clearly and loudly. There are better anthems which are also singable, but some of the catchier ones are a bit too fast paced to get a massive crowd to sing coherently.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,686
    I had no idea that Keith Allen was the genius behind Vindaloo until today.

    Thank you PB.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,465
    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Russian spies considered Mandelson a ‘privileged contact’

    Claims contained in former MI6 agent’s dossier denied by sources close to disgraced peer


    A secret dossier compiled by a former MI6 agent claims that Lord Mandelson was considered a “privileged contact” by Russian intelligence.

    According to the leaked report, codenamed Project Fish, Moscow spymasters regarded the disgraced peer as “one of the most significant RIS [Russian intelligence services] achievements in manipulating UK politics” over the past 30 years.

    The dossier, compiled by Christopher Steele, a former head of MI6’s Russia desk, alleges that Lord Mandelson was first contacted by the KGB shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    Mr Steele came to public attention as the author of a highly controversial and contested report about Donald Trump. It has now emerged that he also compiled a report on British political figures targeted by Russian spies.

    As well as Lord Mandelson, Project Fish alleges that the Kremlin built up files on Boris Johnson, Mr Johnson’s former adviser Dominic Cummings, Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn, among others.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/01/lord-mandelson-privileged-contact-russian-spies/

    Exactly what I was saying earlier. Buying a few tanks is no substitute for exposing and countering Russian subversion of our politics.
    So the Remain campaign was infiltrated by Russians? I knew it! :smile:
    They were so inept they might as well have been.
    Hiring Jack Straw's pot-smoking idiot son to run it may have been a mistake. Mandelson might have won it...
    Technically, there is no evidence he was smoking pot.
    Ah sorry, pot dealing. More serious, but easier on the noggin.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,686

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
    It is a dirge. And it isn't even an English anthem. Get rid.

    Vindaloo would fire up the lads.
    God save … is awful. And in ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ we have a tune to hand that would trump the Marseillaise, and written by our greatest composer to boot. Use it ffs.
    Land of Hope and Glory is better than God Save the [Monarch].

    Jerusalem, like The Star Spangled Banner, is basically impossible to sing.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,465
    Will Straw CBE, as it turns out.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,686
    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico67 said:

    Rashford and Madueke need to be subbed .

    Madueke should never have even been on the plane. He’s been shocking in every game.
    Nonsense. He’s been pretty decent for England so far having won the pen in the first game and set up a great chance in the first half tonight. He’s not as good as Saka (very few are), but he’s a decent back up.
    Why do we only bring on Saka at the end? He plays the full 90 for Arsenal, no?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,933
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico67 said:

    Rashford and Madueke need to be subbed .

    Madueke should never have even been on the plane. He’s been shocking in every game.
    Nonsense. He’s been pretty decent for England so far having won the pen in the first game and set up a great chance in the first half tonight. He’s not as good as Saka (very few are), but he’s a decent back up.
    Why do we only bring on Saka at the end? He plays the full 90 for Arsenal, no?
    He’s suffering from tendinitis. He’s struggling. To play for more than hour. Hopefully he’ll get over it soon…
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,465
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c33yjk0ldkdo

    "Ukrainian charged in Germany over Nord Stream blasts"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,686
    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    One of @Richard_Tyndall's favourite bands is Show of Hands, whose song Roots makes exactly that point:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azftD1p3MDc&list=RDazftD1p3MDc&start_radio=1
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,686
    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    nico67 said:

    Rashford and Madueke need to be subbed .

    Madueke should never have even been on the plane. He’s been shocking in every game.
    Nonsense. He’s been pretty decent for England so far having won the pen in the first game and set up a great chance in the first half tonight. He’s not as good as Saka (very few are), but he’s a decent back up.
    Why do we only bring on Saka at the end? He plays the full 90 for Arsenal, no?
    He’s suffering from tendinitis. He’s struggling. To play for more than hour. Hopefully he’ll get over it soon…
    England is much stronger when he's on the pitch.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,866
    rcs1000 said:

    I had no idea that Keith Allen was the genius behind Vindaloo until today.

    Thank you PB.

    He also features in the World in Motion video.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,932
    dixiedean said:

    On the topic:

    Fraser Nelson
    @FraserNelson

    NEW: The Times has established that Nigel Farage and his partner own at least five homes spanning Surrey, Essex and Kent.

    All but one were bought with cash since 2000. Farage described himself as "skint" in 2017.

    Tbf.
    Buy 5 houses with cash and most of us would be short of a bob.
    The grifting will be what gets Nige in the end.

    Brits don't like this kind of shit.

    I don't see him making the next election to be honest.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,096
    carnforth said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c33yjk0ldkdo

    "Ukrainian charged in Germany over Nord Stream blasts"

    Absolutely disgusting that Germany could charge a Ukrainian for defending their homeland during an invasion.

    Shame on Merkel et al for approving NordSteam and shame on Germany today for this.

    Whoever blew it up should be feted as a hero.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,686

    carnforth said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c33yjk0ldkdo

    "Ukrainian charged in Germany over Nord Stream blasts"

    Absolutely disgusting that Germany could charge a Ukrainian for defending their homeland during an invasion.

    Shame on Merkel et al for approving NordSteam and shame on Germany today for this.

    Whoever blew it up should be feted as a hero.
    The NY Times also needs to take its share of the blame: they revealed his name, resulting in his arrest.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,096
    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c33yjk0ldkdo

    "Ukrainian charged in Germany over Nord Stream blasts"

    Absolutely disgusting that Germany could charge a Ukrainian for defending their homeland during an invasion.

    Shame on Merkel et al for approving NordSteam and shame on Germany today for this.

    Whoever blew it up should be feted as a hero.
    The NY Times also needs to take its share of the blame: they revealed his name, resulting in his arrest.
    Should be given an honour and a medal, not an arrest.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,288
    stodge said:

    I suppose it's fortunate Kane's first name is Harry as we can get all Agincourt about it.

    Were his first time to be Cuthbert, Percival or Nathaniel it might be more difficult.

    Anyroadup, on to more serious matters and I'm musing on housing.

    Even in downtown East London, the market has faltered with a glut of property now on possibly because of changes to renting and landlords. The property glut means there are a lot of older houses which can't be sold, there are a lot of newer flats which aren't moving and there's no incentive to start any new construction projects.

    It all sounds like a classic series of short term poorly thought through nonsense - build a lot of new property which no one can afford to meet a demand which doesn't exist and then change the renting rules to bring even more property on the market forgetting that for many people their property isn't just their only asset, it's their pension but apparently we just have to build whatever the costs and the consequences.

    Meanwhile, most housing remains out of reach of those who really need it. Perhaps developers should take a haircut, sell to the local council and let them put those on the housing waiting list in the new builds (or asylum seekers, it all seems to be the same).

    I'd be interested to see how Burnham responds to this.

    On the other hand one of my nursing colleagues is cock a hoop. The new act has caused her landlord to sell up, and after 18 years she is finally going to own her own house.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,686
    edited 8:50PM

    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c33yjk0ldkdo

    "Ukrainian charged in Germany over Nord Stream blasts"

    Absolutely disgusting that Germany could charge a Ukrainian for defending their homeland during an invasion.

    Shame on Merkel et al for approving NordSteam and shame on Germany today for this.

    Whoever blew it up should be feted as a hero.
    The NY Times also needs to take its share of the blame: they revealed his name, resulting in his arrest.
    Should be given an honour and a medal, not an arrest.
    I agree. I am fairly sure however that the gentleman in question would have preferred to remain anonymous until after the war was over. Especially given the Russian habit of assasinating Ukrainians.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,686
    stodge said:

    I suppose it's fortunate Kane's first name is Harry as we can get all Agincourt about it.

    Were his first time to be Cuthbert, Percival or Nathaniel it might be more difficult.

    Anyroadup, on to more serious matters and I'm musing on housing.

    Even in downtown East London, the market has faltered with a glut of property now on possibly because of changes to renting and landlords. The property glut means there are a lot of older houses which can't be sold, there are a lot of newer flats which aren't moving and there's no incentive to start any new construction projects.

    It all sounds like a classic series of short term poorly thought through nonsense - build a lot of new property which no one can afford to meet a demand which doesn't exist and then change the renting rules to bring even more property on the market forgetting that for many people their property isn't just their only asset, it's their pension but apparently we just have to build whatever the costs and the consequences.

    Meanwhile, most housing remains out of reach of those who really need it. Perhaps developers should take a haircut, sell to the local council and let them put those on the housing waiting list in the new builds (or asylum seekers, it all seems to be the same).

    I'd be interested to see how Burnham responds to this.

    I like the way that his name sounds almost exactly like Hurricane.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,325
    Why are Belgium playing in my mum's Dash tracksuit?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,835
    Dopermean said:

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
    It is a dirge. And it isn't even an English anthem. Get rid.

    Vindaloo would fire up the lads.
    Wonderwall would do. Fits with the Manchesterisation of everything. Maybe change the name to Wonderball.
    Blue Monday

    My New Order live memories are scarred by a woman nearby constantly shouting "play World in Motion"
    Was at Finsbury Park for A Certain Ratio, Railway Children and Happy Mondays. When New Order came on the stage gave way.
    Most were too wasted to notice.
    They came back on to play Blue Monday.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,434
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
    It is a dirge. And it isn't even an English anthem. Get rid.

    Vindaloo would fire up the lads.
    God save … is awful. And in ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ we have a tune to hand that would trump the Marseillaise, and written by our greatest composer to boot. Use it ffs.
    Land of Hope and Glory is better than God Save the [Monarch].

    Jerusalem, like The Star Spangled Banner, is basically impossible to sing.
    Both are well within my vocal range.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,835

    stodge said:

    I suppose it's fortunate Kane's first name is Harry as we can get all Agincourt about it.

    Were his first time to be Cuthbert, Percival or Nathaniel it might be more difficult.

    Anyroadup, on to more serious matters and I'm musing on housing.

    Even in downtown East London, the market has faltered with a glut of property now on possibly because of changes to renting and landlords. The property glut means there are a lot of older houses which can't be sold, there are a lot of newer flats which aren't moving and there's no incentive to start any new construction projects.

    It all sounds like a classic series of short term poorly thought through nonsense - build a lot of new property which no one can afford to meet a demand which doesn't exist and then change the renting rules to bring even more property on the market forgetting that for many people their property isn't just their only asset, it's their pension but apparently we just have to build whatever the costs and the consequences.

    Meanwhile, most housing remains out of reach of those who really need it. Perhaps developers should take a haircut, sell to the local council and let them put those on the housing waiting list in the new builds (or asylum seekers, it all seems to be the same).

    I'd be interested to see how Burnham responds to this.

    A house is a house, not a pension and all investments can go down as well as up.

    If someone lives in a house and it ends up worth less than what they paid for it, that is no big deal. They have still lived in the house and got the benefit of that.

    The market would be much more sane if property were something to be depreciated than expecting telephone number unearned gains for your "pension".
    Indeed. A fall in London House prices and BTL taking a haircut.
    What's not to like?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,932
    dixiedean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
    It is a dirge. And it isn't even an English anthem. Get rid.

    Vindaloo would fire up the lads.
    Wonderwall would do. Fits with the Manchesterisation of everything. Maybe change the name to Wonderball.
    Blue Monday

    My New Order live memories are scarred by a woman nearby constantly shouting "play World in Motion"
    Was at Finsbury Park for A Certain Ratio, Railway Children and Happy Mondays. When New Order came on the stage gave way.
    Most were too wasted to notice.
    They came back on to play Blue Monday.
    Railway Children.

    Wow, there's a forgotten name from the 1990s.

    Every beat of my heart - on my car C90 player every day to work in v early 90s
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,835
    edited 9:01PM

    rcs1000 said:

    I had no idea that Keith Allen was the genius behind Vindaloo until today.

    Thank you PB.

    He also features in the World in Motion video.
    Danced with the Happy Mondays too.
    Presumably when Bez was too wasted or in custody.
    Or both.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,835

    dixiedean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
    It is a dirge. And it isn't even an English anthem. Get rid.

    Vindaloo would fire up the lads.
    Wonderwall would do. Fits with the Manchesterisation of everything. Maybe change the name to Wonderball.
    Blue Monday

    My New Order live memories are scarred by a woman nearby constantly shouting "play World in Motion"
    Was at Finsbury Park for A Certain Ratio, Railway Children and Happy Mondays. When New Order came on the stage gave way.
    Most were too wasted to notice.
    They came back on to play Blue Monday.
    Railway Children.

    Wow, there's a forgotten name from the 1990s.

    Every beat of my heart - on my car C90 player every day to work in v early 90s
    Wigan band.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,206
    edited 9:02PM

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
    It is a dirge. And it isn't even an English anthem. Get rid.

    Vindaloo would fire up the lads.
    For the first england game, my lad asked me to sing the anthem. I sneakily changed 'gracious king' to 'Harry Kane'. He asked me afterwards whether those were really the words. Decent basis for an English anthem if we jazz the tune up a bit.

    "Send him some crosses in, looping and dangerous, long ball's ok for us, God save our Kane"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,434
    Just to give everyone nightmares tonight...

    Trump: I see my two beautiful sons sitting there. I think I'm going to give one medal of honor to myself, one to them, and we'll have a threesome.
    https://x.com/HQNewsNow/status/2072414977965564264
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,096
    Nigelb said:

    Just to give everyone nightmares tonight...

    Trump: I see my two beautiful sons sitting there. I think I'm going to give one medal of honor to myself, one to them, and we'll have a threesome.
    https://x.com/HQNewsNow/status/2072414977965564264

    At least he's not talking about how attracted he is to his daughter this time ...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,605
    Andy_JS said:

    Belgium to win 2-1 is my prediction.

    Sticking with this prediction.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,932
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    My history's a little hazy, Cassius, but didn't thr BNP and NF use the Union flag and NOT the St George's cross?
    They did, but back then they had little or no influence over politics. Things change.

    I am quite keen on the cross of St George. Cross flags look good (offset is better). But it's impossible to deny the connotations the flag now has, just as it's impossible to ignore the undercurrents when you see a Palestine flag. Political semiotics.

    If a school mum is intimidated by it, isn't that a problem we need to address, rather than dismiss?
    We should address it by reasonable people reclaiming the imagery. It can only become a shibboleth of the far right if everyone else abandons it. They can have their crappy swastikas, akd they can argue with the far left over the clenched fist. But the flag is mine and yours and kinabalu's. We should cherish it as people in other nations cherish theirs. We may have a crappy national anthem but our flag is actually quite good.
    The national anthem is fine. Upper tier in world terms.
    It is a dirge. And it isn't even an English anthem. Get rid.

    Vindaloo would fire up the lads.
    Wonderwall would do. Fits with the Manchesterisation of everything. Maybe change the name to Wonderball.
    Blue Monday

    My New Order live memories are scarred by a woman nearby constantly shouting "play World in Motion"
    Was at Finsbury Park for A Certain Ratio, Railway Children and Happy Mondays. When New Order came on the stage gave way.
    Most were too wasted to notice.
    They came back on to play Blue Monday.
    Railway Children.

    Wow, there's a forgotten name from the 1990s.

    Every beat of my heart - on my car C90 player every day to work in v early 90s
    Wigan band.
    Cue Andy Burnham?
  • TresTres Posts: 3,727

    Until Farage has an answer to why the took the £5m, his reputation is down the crapper. He hasn't found one yet. His tone to "friends" suggests he doesn't see one that will convince.

    It is almost impossible to underestimate the impact of Farage being effectively out of UK politics by the next election.

    Personally, I find the answer that he took £5m in return for swaying political policy in favour of the giver very convincing.
    The donor should have called himself a trade union
    Which would still have to be declared.....but good attempt at pithy whataboutery.
    and why not ? Its not as if our politicians dont like money. Labour get bribed by the unions and occasionally business. The Tories take big dollops of cash. It's not as if this comes without strings attached.
    The distinction is that Labour and the Tories declare those donations, Farage keeps on coming up with different excuses about what the money was for, as I noted yesterday

    Finally the most damaging of all is the £5 million donation from Christopher Harbone, Nigel Farage’s explanations keep on changing and are as credible as philandering husband trying to explain to his wife why another woman’s thong ended up in his overnight bag.

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2026/06/30/are-john-rentoul-and-dan-hodges-right/
    Oh how lawyerly, You defend the rules but excuse the principle, All our parties take money and all of them try to get as much of it as possible, and there isnt a single politcal party which hasnt stretched the rules beyond breaking and got away with it.

    This is simply political humbug to nail Farage for something the rest of them do anyway,

    Have some effing policies to attack the man not this dross.
    Rachel Reeves has really driven you doolally hasn't she?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,932

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar
    ·
    4h
    JD Vance to the troops: "The president will ask you to go to war -- yes"

    He'll tell you exactly what you are going to war for and that is what you should expect"


    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2072362829810749789



    Narrator: Trump and Rubio changed the war aims in Iran on a daily basis and we still have no idea what the original idea was.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,344
    Is this a good time to mention I tipped Senegal to win the World Cup in the PB predictions competition?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,288
    Cracking second Senegal goal.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 1,163
    stodge said:

    I suppose it's fortunate Kane's first name is Harry as we can get all Agincourt about it.

    Were his first time to be Cuthbert, Percival or Nathaniel it might be more difficult.

    Anyroadup, on to more serious matters and I'm musing on housing.

    Even in downtown East London, the market has faltered with a glut of property now on possibly because of changes to renting and landlords. The property glut means there are a lot of older houses which can't be sold, there are a lot of newer flats which aren't moving and there's no incentive to start any new construction projects.

    It all sounds like a classic series of short term poorly thought through nonsense - build a lot of new property which no one can afford to meet a demand which doesn't exist and then change the renting rules to bring even more property on the market forgetting that for many people their property isn't just their only asset, it's their pension but apparently we just have to build whatever the costs and the consequences.

    Meanwhile, most housing remains out of reach of those who really need it. Perhaps developers should take a haircut, sell to the local council and let them put those on the housing waiting list in the new builds (or asylum seekers, it all seems to be the same).

    I'd be interested to see how Burnham responds to this.

    Interesting. I drove along the A13 for the first time in a long time (and used the Woolwich Free Ferry!) and I was struck by how many large new build developments I could see in Barking and Dagenham as well as more your way, and in Woolwich l. I wonder if too many similar properties have come on the market at once for local demand?

    Certainly property is still selling here in Havering, the For Sale boards seem to move to Sold pretty quickly. I suspect the prices are flat to drifting down slightly depending which year of the last few you compare against .
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,288
    edited 9:19PM

    Is this a good time to mention I tipped Senegal to win the World Cup in the PB predictions competition?

    Probably playing USA in the next round, could easily put the host out.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,727
    edited 9:21PM
    Cookie said:

    MelonB said:

    Cookie said:

    I couldn't get invested in England playing football before today. But I picked my daughter up earlier from a friend of hers whose mother said she couldn't stand watching England play because of all the flags. When I looked less than instantly comprehending, she elaborated that they're probably all Reform voters.
    This struck me as such an arse-clenchingly sub-Comment-is-Free everything-is-racist view that I have now become quite keen on England staying in this thing a bit longer.
    I mean - ours aren't the only fans whi have flags, surely?

    She has it completely bottom about face. A World Cup run will bring people of all races together.
    The more people like her despise the England flag the more the right will try to claim it. It's pathetic. Just like Emily Thornberry. For years pubs could get an extension for St Patrick's but not St George's. Too many despise the English identity.
    Always the same story: FRITLF, the far right is the left's fault.

    Why does this narrative only go one way? Why are the offhand comments of a lefty at the school gate such a trigger, yet the thuggish behaviour of extremists on the right isn't going to create a terrifying backlash?

    Why the double standards? Tommy and friends behave how they want and we need to respect them and avoid provocation; but lefty woman sounds off about flags and she's going to reap the whirlwind.

    This is what the far right does: rule by fear. Don't provoke them. Ooh no. Or else.
    But it IS the left's fault. Look at me. I've just been made a smidgeon more jingoistic by a woman who abhors the England flag. Repeat thousands of times over.
    'always someone else's fault'

    you have agency
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,325
    Foxy said:

    Cracking second Senegal goal.

    ITV's streaming platform is shite, I'd have to watch 15 ad breaks to go back 2 minutes and watch that...

  • PJHPJH Posts: 1,163

    dixiedean said:

    On the topic:

    Fraser Nelson
    @FraserNelson

    NEW: The Times has established that Nigel Farage and his partner own at least five homes spanning Surrey, Essex and Kent.

    All but one were bought with cash since 2000. Farage described himself as "skint" in 2017.

    Tbf.
    Buy 5 houses with cash and most of us would be short of a bob.
    The grifting will be what gets Nige in the end.

    Brits don't like this kind of shit.

    I don't see him making the next election to be honest.
    I wonder if the reason Farage is surprised about the reaction to his £5m bung, is that, to him, genuinely, it isn't a lot of money, and as a former Public School City Broker he has never moved in circles where it is.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,288
    PJH said:

    dixiedean said:

    On the topic:

    Fraser Nelson
    @FraserNelson

    NEW: The Times has established that Nigel Farage and his partner own at least five homes spanning Surrey, Essex and Kent.

    All but one were bought with cash since 2000. Farage described himself as "skint" in 2017.

    Tbf.
    Buy 5 houses with cash and most of us would be short of a bob.
    The grifting will be what gets Nige in the end.

    Brits don't like this kind of shit.

    I don't see him making the next election to be honest.
    I wonder if the reason Farage is surprised about the reaction to his £5m bung, is that, to him, genuinely, it isn't a lot of money, and as a former Public School City Broker he has never moved in circles where it is.
    Not declaring it was pretty stupid.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,932
    PJH said:

    dixiedean said:

    On the topic:

    Fraser Nelson
    @FraserNelson

    NEW: The Times has established that Nigel Farage and his partner own at least five homes spanning Surrey, Essex and Kent.

    All but one were bought with cash since 2000. Farage described himself as "skint" in 2017.

    Tbf.
    Buy 5 houses with cash and most of us would be short of a bob.
    The grifting will be what gets Nige in the end.

    Brits don't like this kind of shit.

    I don't see him making the next election to be honest.
    I wonder if the reason Farage is surprised about the reaction to his £5m bung, is that, to him, genuinely, it isn't a lot of money, and as a former Public School City Broker he has never moved in circles where it is.
    Maybe - but this guy is supposedly the horse whisper of the white working class van man and there is no way this kind of grifting shit and trying to hide it would go down well in any local wetherspoons.

    He's losing his touch imho.



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