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  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461
    BobaFett said:

    Who are these "rip-off energy companies" that Labour's PPB mentions?

    Or are they just denigrating a massively important sector?

    Just because they are important doesn't mean they aren't ripping us off. Bit of a logic fail there JJ.
    Even the govt is worried - they have launched a probe after arguing that they, erm, weren't ripping us off, now they apparently suspect they are.....
    Just because you don't like them and - shock, horror - they involve large sums, does not mean they're ripping us off.

    There's a difference between launching a probe and knowing guilt. You've presumed guilt.

    Tell me, if the probe clears them, would you believe the result?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    MikeK said:

    Scott_P said:

    @GdnPolitics: Ukip member in election broadcast suspended over racist tweets http://t.co/162Nuhh3WE

    Yeah! One flew over the cuckoos nest. I'm glad that Andre Lampitt has been sacked. Now done swiftly, but it has done some damage to UKIP I'm afraid; if only to let the MSM have a field day with his deranged statements.
    MikeK said:

    Scott_P said:

    @GdnPolitics: Ukip member in election broadcast suspended over racist tweets http://t.co/162Nuhh3WE

    Yeah! One flew over the cuckoos nest. I'm glad that Andre Lampitt has been sacked. Now done swiftly, but it has done some damage to UKIP I'm afraid; if only to let the MSM have a field day with his deranged statements.
    MikeK said:

    Scott_P said:

    @GdnPolitics: Ukip member in election broadcast suspended over racist tweets http://t.co/162Nuhh3WE

    Yeah! One flew over the cuckoos nest. I'm glad that Andre Lampitt has been sacked. Now done swiftly, but it has done some damage to UKIP I'm afraid; if only to let the MSM have a field day with his deranged statements.
    Is anybody keeping a running total of how many UKIP candidates have been sacked in the run-up to May 22?

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    MikeK said:


    He may well be, but he will be stripped of his UKIP party label. If he does run it will be as an independent

    If he appears at all, it will be under the UKIP banner. He may no longer be a member
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    Who are these "rip-off energy companies" that Labour's PPB mentions?

    Or are they just denigrating a massively important sector?

    Just because they are important doesn't mean they aren't ripping us off. Bit of a logic fail there JJ.
    Even the govt is worried - they have launched a probe after arguing that they, erm, weren't ripping us off, now they apparently suspect they are.....
    Just because you don't like them and - shock, horror - they involve large sums, does not mean they're ripping us off.

    There's a difference between launching a probe and knowing guilt. You've presumed guilt.

    Tell me, if the probe clears them, would you believe the result?
    I was merely pointing out your logic fail JJ....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tnewtondunn: "Lord Oakeshott doesn't speak for anyone but himself," says Lib Dem Deputy Leader @malcolmbruce. Not even for Vince?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @RichardNavabi

    Shows what a good union the doctors, lawyers, etc, have?
    Of course you don't think of them as "unions" do you? Only the lower class have those.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Privatise the monarchy while we are at it.
    And all castles.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    BobaFett said:

    This Zimbabwean nutter story won't amount to much - think Ukip will learn from it - but every party has been afflicted by associations at times.

    Indeed. Labour's association with a Mr. Blair being a case in point.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited April 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    Shows what a good union the doctors, lawyers, etc, have?
    Of course you don't think of them as "unions" do you? Only the lower class have those.

    I most certainly do think of them as 'unions', and extremely effective ones they are too at protecting their vested interests.

    In this particular case, however, it wasn't the effectiveness of the doctors' union, it was absolute crass incompetence by a profligate Labour government completely uninterested in value for money. That's not surprising, because they we so keen to boast about how much extra money they were 'investing' in the health service:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6314301.stm

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    G4S had a few....miscalculations, but they are back on the bidding list because....
    Hmmmm, ....Why are they back on the list?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    Scott_P said:

    @GdnPolitics: Ukip member in election broadcast suspended over racist tweets http://t.co/162Nuhh3WE

    Yeah! One flew over the cuckoos nest. I'm glad that Andre Lampitt has been sacked. Now done swiftly, but it has done some damage to UKIP I'm afraid; if only to let the MSM have a field day with his deranged statements.
    MikeK said:

    Scott_P said:

    @GdnPolitics: Ukip member in election broadcast suspended over racist tweets http://t.co/162Nuhh3WE

    Yeah! One flew over the cuckoos nest. I'm glad that Andre Lampitt has been sacked. Now done swiftly, but it has done some damage to UKIP I'm afraid; if only to let the MSM have a field day with his deranged statements.
    MikeK said:

    Scott_P said:

    @GdnPolitics: Ukip member in election broadcast suspended over racist tweets http://t.co/162Nuhh3WE

    Yeah! One flew over the cuckoos nest. I'm glad that Andre Lampitt has been sacked. Now done swiftly, but it has done some damage to UKIP I'm afraid; if only to let the MSM have a field day with his deranged statements.
    Is anybody keeping a running total of how many UKIP candidates have been sacked in the run-up to May 22?
    Is anybody keeping a running total of how many L/Dem candidates have been sacked in the run-up to May 22?


  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    So last night's thread alleging a hideous error at the start of UKIP's PEB was right...
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    This Zimbabwean nutter story won't amount to much - think Ukip will learn from it - but every party has been afflicted by associations at times.

    Indeed. Labour's association with a Mr. Blair being a case in point.

    Indeed!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn

    UKIP election broadcast star @AndreLampitt – who wants all Africans to “kill themselves off” – is also a council candidate in Merton...

    David just beat Goliath
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    BobaFett said:

    This Zimbabwean nutter story won't amount to much - think Ukip will learn from it - but every party has been afflicted by associations at times.

    Indeed. Labour's association with a Mr. Blair being a case in point.

    And the Lib Dems association with David Ward and Jenny Tonge.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Scott_P said:

    So last night's thread alleging a hideous error at the start of UKIP's PEB was right...

    Where has Sam gone?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Blue arrows on the Daily Mail's site flocking to Lampitt's defence...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    MikeK said:

    Scott_P said:

    @GdnPolitics: Ukip member in election broadcast suspended over racist tweets http://t.co/162Nuhh3WE

    Yeah! One flew over the cuckoos nest. I'm glad that Andre Lampitt has been sacked. Now done swiftly, but it has done some damage to UKIP I'm afraid; if only to let the MSM have a field day with his deranged statements.
    MikeK said:

    Scott_P said:

    @GdnPolitics: Ukip member in election broadcast suspended over racist tweets http://t.co/162Nuhh3WE

    Yeah! One flew over the cuckoos nest. I'm glad that Andre Lampitt has been sacked. Now done swiftly, but it has done some damage to UKIP I'm afraid; if only to let the MSM have a field day with his deranged statements.
    MikeK said:

    Scott_P said:

    @GdnPolitics: Ukip member in election broadcast suspended over racist tweets http://t.co/162Nuhh3WE

    Yeah! One flew over the cuckoos nest. I'm glad that Andre Lampitt has been sacked. Now done swiftly, but it has done some damage to UKIP I'm afraid; if only to let the MSM have a field day with his deranged statements.
    Is anybody keeping a running total of how many UKIP candidates have been sacked in the run-up to May 22?

    These amateurs who don't check things out properly before publishing eh Mike?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited April 2014
    taffys said:

    Blue arrows on the Daily Mail's site flocking to Lampitt's defence...

    This is proving a very amusing story. Not only the bonkers tweets themselves (I particularly enjoyed the irony of someone born and brought up in Zimbabwe accusing Ed M of not being British), but, perhaps even better, the nutters now rapidly infesting the Mail's comments, such as this gem (amongst the 'best rated'):

    YAZ DAVID, ISLE OF SHEPPEY, United Kingdom, 29 minutes ago: What a co-incidence that this story breaks so close to the EU Elections. No points for guessing which of the Lib-Lab-Cons planted this idiot into our Party
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Freggles said:

    Scott_P said:

    So last night's thread alleging a hideous error at the start of UKIP's PEB was right...

    Where has Sam gone?
    Never gone away. Whats up?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    Peston says the UK govt is making no contingency planning for a SIndy 'yes':

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27145821

    'As for RBS, it might find borrowing became quite a lot more expensive, and it might even see withdrawals by risk-averse creditors.'

    Eck won't have a problem bailing it out, will he?
    If Scotland votes for independence, it is inevitable that RBS Group PLC becomes a rUK company headquartered in London, and there will be a subsidiary, based in Scotland, called RBS Scotland or equivalent, which operated the (much smaller) Scottish business,
  • I honestly believe that there are some things that should be a service, government run, not for profit. Police, Fire, Armed Forces, and some aspects of the NHS are the ones I'd want kept in state control. I'm just not sure how you can offer the best service trying to make money out of those emergency services.

    But state control is not synonymous with directly state-run by state-employed staff.

    For some bizarre reason no-one, even amongst the most leftie lefties, ever seems to worry about the fact that our GP service is 100% outsourced to private providers, run for profit. If GP surgeries, why not hospitals or fire stations? There may be practical reasons, of course, but the objections are almost always ideological. We should be able to have a sensible debate about the best way to organise things without all that nonsense about 'dismantling the NHS' or 'dismantling the fire service', any more than we've 'dismantled' the GP service (or rather, Attlee never mantled it!)
    The trouble is, Richard, the companies that want to run the Fire Service are the ones that couldn't run the Olympics, or the Prison Service, or LFB's fire engines. There's just no confidence in them offering a better service for a cheaper price.
    Sure, it'd start out cheaper. My Brigade cost 37 million last year, mostly in wages, and that is getting cut by at least 5 million over the next few years. How can a private company offer the same service for that, whilst making profit for share holders?
    Where's the extra cash coming from? The council tax can't be increased without a referendum, and we've been told that will cost us a million. They might say, Ok, we'll do it for 40 mill a year, for 5 years, but they won't invest in the infrastructure, they'll keep trucks longer, skimp on training, run equipment down. Then, when their contract is up, what then? Who pays for the reinvestment?
    The Fire Service doesn't make any profit, it's a drain on resources. I think that's why things like the prison service suffer when certain companies get involved. I know it's quite a blinkered view on my part, but I just can't see it benefiting the end user, poor Joe Bloggs when he wants his chip pan putting out.
    Finally, I'm prepared to take a bit of risk for the county, it's people, it's history, it's buildings. I can't say I'd be willing to take that risk for G4S, or AssetCo or Falke. I realise its a fairly naive mindset, but its one shared by most firemen.
  • There were squillions of Kippers in Manchester earlier on, they even tried to get me to sign up.

    If only the Andre Lampitt story had broken earlier, I'd have had so much. fun

    I'm also glad all those UKIP background checkes have worked wonders.
  • What a story! Bloke clearly has issues.

    Ex-KKK leader behind Kansas Jewish center killings paid for sex with black man dressed as woman: report

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ex-kkk-leader-behind-kansas-killings-paid-sex-black-man-dressed-woman-report-article-1.1767662#ixzz2zpOP7ogF
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    YAZ DAVID, ISLE OF SHEPPEY, United Kingdom, 29 minutes ago: What a co-incidence that this story breaks so close to the EU Elections. No points for guessing which of the Lib-Lab-Cons planted this idiot into our Party

    My favourite was...

    Is nobody entitled to express an opinion?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade.
    Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies.
    What could possibly go wrong?

    You want to privatise BA ? BT ? Vodaphone ? Pfizer ?

    Aren't they already privatised?
    Yes - and booming because of it and providing a far better service than when they weren't
    If privatisation is such a panacea why not privatise all roads, the police, the army, navy and Air Force? And all schools?
    Privatise the Police? Heaven forfend. Labour just privatised their top tier - ACPO is a private limited company, which is in part funded by making charges for access to data collected by by public bodies. Anyone want to try an justify that one?

    Oh, on the subject of ACPO, is its chairman a police officer? If so who gives him a warrant card? If not how can he ponce about in a police uniform without committing a criminal offence?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited April 2014
    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade.
    Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies.
    What could possibly go wrong?

    You want to privatise BA ? BT ? Vodaphone ? Pfizer ?

    Aren't they already privatised?
    Yes - and booming because of it and providing a far better service than when they weren't
    If privatisation is such a panacea why not privatise all roads, the police, the army, navy and Air Force? And all schools?
    Great chunks are the armed forces are already outsourced. Comms, air bridges, in flight refuelling, logistics, etc etc Seems to work for the Yanks too.

    Oh, and all those suspiciously Russian looking unbadged soldiers in Ukraine? Rumour has it they're private contractors. (Vnevedomstvenaya Okhrana).
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I'm also glad all those UKIP background checkes have worked wonders.

    The people in the background are czechs? bloody knew it...first our jobs, now our backgrounds!!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Sure, it'd start out cheaper. My Brigade cost 37 million last year, mostly in wages, and that is getting cut by at least 5 million over the next few years. How can a private company offer the same service for that, whilst making profit for share holders?

    That's always the argument, and it's false. Outsourcing has, in many cases, saved a lot of money; it's not a zero-sum game. Look at council refuse collections for lots of good examples - people said exactly the same about those.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily advocating that the fire service should be run in that way; there may well be special features of the fire service which make it private provision less appropriate, and I take the points you make in that respect. All I'm saying is that it is (or should be) a practical question, not an ideological one. Whatever works best.

    And, applying that logic, I'm quite certain that we should (for example) be using private hospitals more; there, the evidence is pretty unassailable.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    David Cameron is apparently doing a town hall style conference call on Monday, to sell the Conservatives EU Election campaign message to supporters.

    I've heard of these in USA elections before, but this is the first time I've come across them being used in the UK.

    Is this new, or am I just out of date?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    There were squillions of Kippers in Manchester earlier on, they even tried to get me to sign up.

    If only the Andre Lampitt story had broken earlier, I'd have had so much. fun

    I'm also glad all those UKIP background checkes have worked wonders.

    Come, come TSE, there are plenty of nutters to go round and the Tories, Labour and L/Dems. have had and still have some beauties in their ranks.

    The only difference to UKIP is that the MSM very seldom mentions their peccadillos.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2014
    Were those Twitter comments really made by Andre Lampitt? Seem like just the sort of comments a hacker would write.
  • MikeK said:

    There were squillions of Kippers in Manchester earlier on, they even tried to get me to sign up.

    If only the Andre Lampitt story had broken earlier, I'd have had so much. fun

    I'm also glad all those UKIP background checkes have worked wonders.

    Come, come TSE, there are plenty of nutters to go round and the Tories, Labour and L/Dems. have had and still have some beauties in their ranks.

    The only difference to UKIP is that the MSM very seldom mentions their peccadillos.
    I know, but every time a story like this comes out, it makes me smile because people will think "Turns out Dave was right"
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    I honestly believe that there are some things that should be a service, government run, not for profit. Police, Fire, Armed Forces, and some aspects of the NHS are the ones I'd want kept in state control. I'm just not sure how you can offer the best service trying to make money out of those emergency services.

    But state control is not synonymous with directly state-run by state-employed staff.

    For some bizarre reason no-one, even amongst the most leftie lefties, ever seems to worry about the fact that our GP service is 100% outsourced to private providers, run for profit. If GP surgeries, why not hospitals or fire stations? There may be practical reasons, of course, but the objections are almost always ideological. We should be able to have a sensible debate about the best way to organise things without all that nonsense about 'dismantling the NHS' or 'dismantling the fire service', any more than we've 'dismantled' the GP service (or rather, Attlee never mantled it!)
    The trouble is, Richard, the companies that want to run the Fire Service are the ones that couldn't run the Olympics, or the Prison Service, or LFB's fire engines. There's just no confidence in them offering a better service for a cheaper price.
    Sure, it'd start out cheaper. My Brigade cost 37 million last year, mostly in wages, and that is getting cut by at least 5 million over the next few years. How can a private company offer the same service for that, whilst making profit for share holders?
    Where's the extra cash coming from? The council tax can't be increased without a referendum, and we've been told that will cost us a million. They might say, Ok, we'll do it for 40 mill a year, for 5 years, but they won't invest in the infrastructure, they'll keep trucks longer, skimp on training, run equipment down. Then, when their contract is up, what then? Who pays for the reinvestment?
    The Fire Service doesn't make any profit, it's a drain on resources. I think that's why things like the prison service suffer when certain companies get involved. I know it's quite a blinkered view on my part, but I just can't see it benefiting the end user, poor Joe Bloggs when he wants his chip pan putting out.
    Finally, I'm prepared to take a bit of risk for the county, it's people, it's history, it's buildings. I can't say I'd be willing to take that risk for G4S, or AssetCo or Falke. I realise its a fairly naive mindset, but its one shared by most firemen.
    Previously, you've posted that Fire HQ is stuffed to the gills with admin staff and desk warriors - there's money that can be saved, and reallocated.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "... I'm prepared to take a bit of risk for the county, it's people, it's history, it's buildings. I can't say I'd be willing to take that risk for G4S, or AssetCo or Falke...."

    That's a message you need to keep pushing, Mr. Stopper. Unfortunately, in my fairly recent experience a lot of senior fire and rescue people, those that inhabit those nice new HQ buildings, have spent the last decade or so minimising the risk part of your job. Putting out fires, rescuing people and those ruffty-tuffty parts is now "a small part of what we do". If your service leaders are going about saying some asthmatic bint who couldn't climb a flight of stairs much less carry a 12 stone man down a ladder is an equally valued and valuable member of the Fire and Rescue service then you can't complain when G4S puts in a bid to run the service.
  • Sure, it'd start out cheaper. My Brigade cost 37 million last year, mostly in wages, and that is getting cut by at least 5 million over the next few years. How can a private company offer the same service for that, whilst making profit for share holders?

    That's always the argument, and it's false. Outsourcing has, in many cases, saved a lot of money; it's not a zero-sum game. Look at council refuse collections for lots of good examples - people said exactly the same about those.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily advocating that the fire service should be run in that way; there may well be special features of the fire service which make it private provision less appropriate, and I take the points you make in that respect. All I'm saying is that it is (or should be) a practical question, not an ideological one. Whatever works best.

    And, applying that logic, I'm quite certain that we should (for example) be using private hospitals more; there, the evidence is pretty unassailable.
    I can't argue about bin collections. There's money to be made in recycling, and you can tie that in with council collections. Likewise private hospitals, I have good experience of nhs operations in a private bed.
    I'm obviously biased, but I genuinely can't see how you can make sufficient money out of what I do, on the available funding, delivering what is, frankly, "The Finest Fire Service in the Country, and therefore, The World "(cf my CFO!)
    That's not to say that things shouldn't be done differently. Why we need 44 different FR Services, with different trucks, equipment, clothing and suchlike is barmy.

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Congratulations to

    Cllr Thomas Fearns
    http://councillors.knowsley.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=109&StyleType=standard&StyleSize=none

    Cllr Veronica McNeill
    http://councillors.knowsley.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=172&StyleType=standard&StyleSize=none

    elected unopposed in Knowsley. Such a brilliant campaign for them.....
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The Tories' increasingly poor setup in Eastleigh is illustrated by the fact that they're only contesting 13 out of 15 wards in the local elections, whereas LDs, Lab and UKIP are each contesting all 15:

    http://www.vote-2012.proboards.com/post/153327/thread
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade.
    Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies.
    What could possibly go wrong?

    You want to privatise BA ? BT ? Vodaphone ? Pfizer ?

    Aren't they already privatised?
    Yes - and booming because of it and providing a far better service than when they weren't
    If privatisation is such a panacea why not privatise all roads, the police, the army, navy and Air Force? And all schools?
    Most roads are - mr Gove is doing a great job in privatising schools started under Labour - academies and free schools.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Sure, it'd start out cheaper. My Brigade cost 37 million last year, mostly in wages, and that is getting cut by at least 5 million over the next few years. How can a private company offer the same service for that, whilst making profit for share holders?

    That's always the argument, and it's false. Outsourcing has, in many cases, saved a lot of money; it's not a zero-sum game. Look at council refuse collections for lots of good examples - people said exactly the same about those.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily advocating that the fire service should be run in that way; there may well be special features of the fire service which make it private provision less appropriate, and I take the points you make in that respect. All I'm saying is that it is (or should be) a practical question, not an ideological one. Whatever works best.

    And, applying that logic, I'm quite certain that we should (for example) be using private hospitals more; there, the evidence is pretty unassailable.
    I can't argue about bin collections. There's money to be made in recycling, and you can tie that in with council collections. Likewise private hospitals, I have good experience of nhs operations in a private bed.
    I'm obviously biased, but I genuinely can't see how you can make sufficient money out of what I do, on the available funding, delivering what is, frankly, "The Finest Fire Service in the Country, and therefore, The World "(cf my CFO!)
    That's not to say that things shouldn't be done differently. Why we need 44 different FR Services, with different trucks, equipment, clothing and suchlike is barmy.

    Your last point, is an excellent one.

    As to why there are still 44 brigades, well, power, fiefdoms, petty empire building and squabbling are probably as good a reason as any. If the service can't sort itself out, someone else should. They've had long enough.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Sure, it'd start out cheaper. My Brigade cost 37 million last year, mostly in wages, and that is getting cut by at least 5 million over the next few years. How can a private company offer the same service for that, whilst making profit for share holders?

    That's always the argument, and it's false. Outsourcing has, in many cases, saved a lot of money; it's not a zero-sum game. Look at council refuse collections for lots of good examples - people said exactly the same about those.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily advocating that the fire service should be run in that way; there may well be special features of the fire service which make it private provision less appropriate, and I take the points you make in that respect. All I'm saying is that it is (or should be) a practical question, not an ideological one. Whatever works best.

    And, applying that logic, I'm quite certain that we should (for example) be using private hospitals more; there, the evidence is pretty unassailable.
    I can't argue about bin collections. There's money to be made in recycling, and you can tie that in with council collections. Likewise private hospitals, I have good experience of nhs operations in a private bed.
    I'm obviously biased, but I genuinely can't see how you can make sufficient money out of what I do, on the available funding, delivering what is, frankly, "The Finest Fire Service in the Country, and therefore, The World "(cf my CFO!)
    That's not to say that things shouldn't be done differently. Why we need 44 different FR Services, with different trucks, equipment, clothing and suchlike is barmy.

    Your last point, is an excellent one.

    As to why there are still 44 brigades, well, power, fiefdoms, petty empire building and squabbling are probably as good a reason as any. If the service can't sort itself out, someone else should. They've had long enough.
    Just because there are problems with public ownership doesn't mean private ownership will be better, it would have its own problems. Not everything imperfect can be improved in the real world, sadly.
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited April 2014

    It is, but they do jobs that the government deem essential. Community Fire Safety, data collection, HR, health and safety, equality and diversity. Some of those departments actually make money selling their services.
    It's frontline firemen that get in the way of all that, running around, actually doing fire and rescue! You need to tell the government they can unstuff those gills, they ain't listening to us.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Strange how some posters seem to think we practice jus soli. In fact most countries practice jus sanguinis, and with very good reason.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    edited April 2014

    David Cameron is apparently doing a town hall style conference call on Monday, to sell the Conservatives EU Election campaign message to supporters.

    I've heard of these in USA elections before, but this is the first time I've come across them being used in the UK.

    Is this new, or am I just out of date?

    Hmm, not sure about conference call specifically.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Stopper, stop being so selfish. It's vital that we ensure that the fire brigade has sufficient diversity and embraces ethnic minorities. I hope you have the requisite number of Cornishmen on your crew.

    It's staggering how much fat can be cut from some things, and how sometimes (often?) that just doesn't happen.

    £120,000 of taxpayer money thrown towards Cornwall. Not for infrastructure, but for the Cornish language.

    "In March this year, Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg announced the government would be investing £120,000 into the Cornish Language Partnership to promote and develop the language."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-27132035

    A deficit of over £100bn, the debt over a trillion pounds and we're frittering away money on this nonsense.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    congratulations also to Cllr Timothy Hallchurch MBE elected unopposed in Cherwell. Another hard fought campaign

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    EU Parliament nominations.

    http://ukgeneralelection2015.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/statement-of-parties-nominated-for-uk.html

    London includes a "National Liberal Party - true liberalism"

    http://londoneuroelections.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/StatementOfPersonsNominatedFinal.pdf

    There's also a "Harmony Party" on a lot of the regions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    edited April 2014
    Yvette Cooper and team pose for a 'Better Together' campaign photo, apparently she was born in Inverness

    twitter.com/johnerskine/status/459336538049220608/photo/1
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: If Ukip are so outraged at Andre Lampitt, why is the PPB featuring him still sitting on the front of their website.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade.
    Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies.
    What could possibly go wrong?

    You want to privatise BA ? BT ? Vodaphone ? Pfizer ?

    Aren't they already privatised?
    Yes - and booming because of it and providing a far better service than when they weren't
    If privatisation is such a panacea why not privatise all roads, the police, the army, navy and Air Force? And all schools?
    Most roads are - mr Gove is doing a great job in privatising schools started under Labour - academies and free schools.
    Serious point: surely contracting out maintenance is not the same thing as privatization. Up here in Scotland BEAR don't send me a bill or charge me a toll for me to drive along a trunk road.

  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: If Ukip are so outraged at Andre Lampitt, why is the PPB featuring him still sitting on the front of their website.

    Because no one except the establishment cares.

    Still, its a first to see the establishment and their media attack dogs going after a refugee, bu then he is actually from this country and is genuinely had to flee for his life.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Carnyx said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade.
    Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies.
    What could possibly go wrong?

    You want to privatise BA ? BT ? Vodaphone ? Pfizer ?

    Aren't they already privatised?
    Yes - and booming because of it and providing a far better service than when they weren't
    If privatisation is such a panacea why not privatise all roads, the police, the army, navy and Air Force? And all schools?
    Most roads are - mr Gove is doing a great job in privatising schools started under Labour - academies and free schools.
    Serious point: surely contracting out maintenance is not the same thing as privatization. Up here in Scotland BEAR don't send me a bill or charge me a toll for me to drive along a trunk road.

    According to Boba only a state employee can maintain a highway - it was set down by the Tolpuddle Martyrs and Marx or something.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Paging Tim B

    @DaleJr: “@S3Dobbins3: @DaleJr if@ Jerry Jones sponsored you with a Cowboys car would you drive it?” I'd advise Mr H. against doing that deal.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: If Ukip are so outraged at Andre Lampitt, why is the PPB featuring him still sitting on the front of their website.

    Because its not what he said in the video that's outrageous?
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,080
    Re. fire service. It is not widely known that the original fire brigades were run by the insurance companies. You can see the logic: put out the fires quickly and we have fewer claims. How about Aviva running them?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Carnyx said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade.
    Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies.
    What could possibly go wrong?

    You want to privatise BA ? BT ? Vodaphone ? Pfizer ?

    Aren't they already privatised?
    Yes - and booming because of it and providing a far better service than when they weren't
    If privatisation is such a panacea why not privatise all roads, the police, the army, navy and Air Force? And all schools?
    Most roads are - mr Gove is doing a great job in privatising schools started under Labour - academies and free schools.
    Serious point: surely contracting out maintenance is not the same thing as privatization. Up here in Scotland BEAR don't send me a bill or charge me a toll for me to drive along a trunk road.

    Contracting out is not the same thing as privatisation. There are lots of people who will tell you that it is and that it is wrong an probably evil. However, they are normally the same people that will tell you that leaving patients to die of thirst whilst in a bed of their own poo was just unfortunate but lessons have been learned. So I shouldn't listen to them if I were you.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,586
    TGOHF said:



    Most roads are - mr Gove is doing a great job in privatising schools started under Labour - academies and free schools.

    Strangely that's not how it works. Academies are really bringing schools directly under DoE control. Previously if the DoE didn't like something they had to go via the local authority to remove the head and governors now they can directly deal with the school.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    new thread
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    Concerning the fire service


    There is of course a third way avoiding either the incompetence of both government control and the penny pinching need for profit of private.

    I offer as an example the RNLI which I think I believe I am safe in saying do an excellent job as a volunteer service funded by charity. Indeed while they receive it is true some government funding it amounts to less than 2% of their budget.

    Hands up who believes the RNLI would be better run by the government or private companies?

    Anyone?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    David Cameron is apparently doing a town hall style conference call on Monday, to sell the Conservatives EU Election campaign message to supporters.

    I've heard of these in USA elections before, but this is the first time I've come across them being used in the UK.

    Is this new, or am I just out of date?

    He's sent me a couple of nice emails asking if I'm free to join ;-)

    Almost tempted, but think I'm on a flight...
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Have we privatised the air that we breathe yet? ;-)

    I walked past a cemetery earlier. Looked like there was room for a pay kiosk as you walked in...
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    rcs1000 said:

    Peston says the UK govt is making no contingency planning for a SIndy 'yes':

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27145821

    'As for RBS, it might find borrowing became quite a lot more expensive, and it might even see withdrawals by risk-averse creditors.'

    Eck won't have a problem bailing it out, will he?
    If Scotland votes for independence, it is inevitable that RBS Group PLC becomes a rUK company headquartered in London, and there will be a subsidiary, based in Scotland, called RBS Scotland or equivalent, which operated the (much smaller) Scottish business,
    Privatise Scotland.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    Who are these "rip-off energy companies" that Labour's PPB mentions?

    Or are they just denigrating a massively important sector?

    Just because they are important doesn't mean they aren't ripping us off. Bit of a logic fail there JJ.
    Even the govt is worried - they have launched a probe after arguing that they, erm, weren't ripping us off, now they apparently suspect they are.....
    Just because you don't like them and - shock, horror - they involve large sums, does not mean they're ripping us off.

    There's a difference between launching a probe and knowing guilt. You've presumed guilt.

    Tell me, if the probe clears them, would you believe the result?
    I was merely pointing out your logic fail JJ....
    No logic fail at all. Innocent until proven guilty and all that, instead of presuming guilt.

    So perhaps you should answer the question: if the probe clears them, would you believe the result?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    That's going to annoy some people more than the killings.

    What a story! Bloke clearly has issues.

    Ex-KKK leader behind Kansas Jewish center killings paid for sex with black man dressed as woman: report

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ex-kkk-leader-behind-kansas-killings-paid-sex-black-man-dressed-woman-report-article-1.1767662#ixzz2zpOP7ogF

This discussion has been closed.