Firefighers, teachers, train drivers and council staffs all planning strikes - time for some further anti- strike legislation to protect the real economy from these dangerous wreckers ?
What legislation would you like to see?
Majority of all staff must vote for a strike.
Head teachers can be provided info on what union a teacher belongs to before they employ them.
Refunds from the school/council if services are not provided.
Refunds from train companies to season ticket holders if trains cancelled due to strikes.
So you want compulsory voting for strike ballots?
No - can't be bovvered to vote = no strike.
What about those who can't be bovvered to vote in a GE? No government?
Not voting in a GE isn't denying services to the population at large.
We voted for a govt that was proposing austerity - we got it . Why wont firefighters accept that democratic mandate ?
More to the point, why should they accept it? Firefighters Unions don't exist to find justice and order in a situation, they exist to advance the cause of their members. It isn't their job to accept others are right. When we next vote in a left-wing government you won't find the wealthy just accepting that taxes will be raised so income distribution can occur.
Firefighers, teachers, train drivers and council staffs all planning strikes - time for some further anti- strike legislation to protect the real economy from these dangerous wreckers ?
What legislation would you like to see?
Majority of all staff must vote for a strike.
Head teachers can be provided info on what union a teacher belongs to before they employ them.
Refunds from the school/council if services are not provided.
Refunds from train companies to season ticket holders if trains cancelled due to strikes.
So you want compulsory voting for strike ballots?
No - can't be bovvered to vote = no strike.
What about those who can't be bovvered to vote in a GE? No government?
Not voting in a GE isn't denying services to the population at large.
We voted for a govt that was proposing austerity - we got it . Why wont firefighters accept that democratic mandate ?
But only 36% of the electorate voted for the Conservative party, of the public who could be bovvered, how's that a democratic mandate?
Firefighers, teachers, train drivers and council staffs all planning strikes - time for some further anti- strike legislation to protect the real economy from these dangerous wreckers ?
What legislation would you like to see?
Majority of all staff must vote for a strike.
Head teachers can be provided info on what union a teacher belongs to before they employ them.
Refunds from the school/council if services are not provided.
Refunds from train companies to season ticket holders if trains cancelled due to strikes.
So you want compulsory voting for strike ballots?
No - can't be bovvered to vote = no strike.
What about those who can't be bovvered to vote in a GE? No government?
Not voting in a GE isn't denying services to the population at large.
We voted for a govt that was proposing austerity - we got it . Why wont firefighters accept that democratic mandate ?
But only 36% of the electorate voted for the Conservative party, of the public who could be bovvered, how's that a democratic mandate?
Hence there's a Coalition.
if lefties don't like my new strike laws they can always move to France..
More to the point, why should they accept it? Firefighters Unions don't exist to find justice and order in a situation, they exist to advance the cause of their members. It isn't their job to accept others are right. When we next vote in a left-wing government you won't find the wealthy just accepting that taxes will be raised so income distribution can occur.
Correct they will be leaving for Switzerland.
There's this odd theory around that Switzerland is all low-tax. I paid more tax when I worked there than I do now. It's true that some of the inland cantons with relatively few outgoings do have very low tax, but not the cantons where most people work. And unlike us they have a wealth tax too...
@rcs1000@socrates Matthew Partridge was a good contributor imo. I don't think he was actually all that far off with his Lieberman as VP tip - I think people involved have subsequently said McCain was quite close to picking him before they went for Palin.
There was no chance in hell Lieberman would ever get through the RNC. When was the last time the party allowed a pro-life candidate, let alone a Democrat?
Possibly, but Steve Schmidt (McCain's campaign director IIRC) said in 2012 that Lieberman was his (McCain's) 1st choice and he almost announced it before the news leaked and there was a public backlash from the party. So suggesting he would pick him wasn't exactly madness.
I don't think he almost announced it. I know McCain liked the guy and would have wanted to pick him, but it was clearly never going to work in practice. McCain didn't announce it because he knew it wouldn't fly. Both candidates also need to be nominated by the convention. If McCain had picked Lieberman, not only would Lieberman not have been picked, but McCain's nomination might have been in danger.
PP are offering 25/1 that a cornish pasty is thrown at any party leader before the GE. Surely it wouldn't be that hard to find one and throw a pasty at them?
Firefighers, teachers, train drivers and council staffs all planning strikes - time for some further anti- strike legislation to protect the real economy from these dangerous wreckers ?
What legislation would you like to see?
Majority of all staff must vote for a strike.
Head teachers can be provided info on what union a teacher belongs to before they employ them.
Refunds from the school/council if services are not provided.
Refunds from train companies to season ticket holders if trains cancelled due to strikes.
So you want compulsory voting for strike ballots?
No - can't be bovvered to vote = no strike.
What about those who can't be bovvered to vote in a GE? No government?
Not voting in a GE isn't denying services to the population at large.
We voted for a govt that was proposing austerity - we got it . Why wont firefighters accept that democratic mandate ?
But only 36% of the electorate voted for the Conservative party, of the public who could be bovvered, how's that a democratic mandate?
Hence there's a Coalition.
But most people who could be arsed to vote, didn't vote for the Tories, or the LDs. Only 65% turnout. Now, thats the system we've got, so thats how it is. Why should union members not be allowed to use a similar system, if it's good enough to vote in a government?
Firefighers, teachers, train drivers and council staffs all planning strikes - time for some further anti- strike legislation to protect the real economy from these dangerous wreckers ?
What legislation would you like to see?
Majority of all staff must vote for a strike.
Head teachers can be provided info on what union a teacher belongs to before they employ them.
Refunds from the school/council if services are not provided.
Refunds from train companies to season ticket holders if trains cancelled due to strikes.
So you want compulsory voting for strike ballots?
No - can't be bovvered to vote = no strike.
What about those who can't be bovvered to vote in a GE? No government?
Not voting in a GE isn't denying services to the population at large.
We voted for a govt that was proposing austerity - we got it . Why wont firefighters accept that democratic mandate ?
But only 36% of the electorate voted for the Conservative party, of the public who could be bovvered, how's that a democratic mandate?
Hence there's a Coalition.
if lefties don't like my new strike laws they can always move to France..
There's this odd theory around that Switzerland is all low-tax. I paid more tax when I worked there than I do now. It's true that some of the inland cantons with relatively few outgoings do have very low tax, but not the cantons where most people work. And unlike us they have a wealth tax too...
Total tax raised as a percentage of GDP is around 30% in Switzerland, which is substantially less than here in the UK (around 39%, 2012 figures). And of course they don't have our huge deficit, which is just deferred taxation.
What's more, they seem to be able to provide rather better public services for less money, although of course they had the advantage of being free of Gordon Brown's influence.
Have been off for a bit. Reviewing the thread what leaps out is Mr. Charles comments. Not only does he know what a jar of instant coffee costs but he admits to drinking the muck and, indirectly, cleaning his own shoes. What is the point of a trickle-down economy if the nobs don't employ people?
Mr. Charles, did your grandfather or great grandfather clean their own footwear? Did they carry their own bags? Noblesse Oblige, after all.
P.S. I used to keep shoe cleaning kit in the left bottom drawer of my desk, long with with glasses, an ash-tray and two bottles of whisky (something decent for when the nobs came to call and Famous Grouse for the lower orders).
UKIP need to get serious about some of these things. The sort of person who describes themselves as "born British in Rhodesia" is obviously the sort of person that might raise a red flag about their views on race.
Refunds from train companies to season ticket holders if trains cancelled due to strikes.
Why on earth should a company, which is the victim of a conspiracy in restraint of trade, be punished for the fact? That idea would only be viable if unions were made liable in tort for their acts and omissions to act, which is a respectable position, but one which you are not advocating.
Was the basis of the Taff Vale judgment iirc. (Then the Labour movement really started organising and the next Liberal government passed a law overturning it).
Shadsy still has Rahman at 6/4 to win in Tower Hamlets...
Are you sure that's value? I've looked at it in the past, and I wasn't convinced. But I don't have local knowledge.
He got over 50% of the 1st preferences last time...
Many of the Tory / Lib Dem / Green votes will fail to transfer to Labour because it's only SV rather than AV. I cant see why he isnt favourite.
Well, there's been a fair wodge of shenanigans since he was elected in 2010. From afar it's a bit hard to assess whether that will help him or hinder him, but what gave me pause was the demographics. Bangladeshis make up 30% of the population, which is obviously a substantial minority, but it is still a minority. I can see Rahman getting a good chunk of the Bangladeshi vote, but I can also see his record putting off a good chunk of the rest. In addition, he was greatly helped last time by Labour making such a mess of the selection; I'd imagine (although I admit I don't know this to be the case) that they've got themselves better organised now.
Shadsy still has Rahman at 6/4 to win in Tower Hamlets...
Are you sure that's value? I've looked at it in the past, and I wasn't convinced. But I don't have local knowledge.
He got over 50% of the 1st preferences last time...
Many of the Tory / Lib Dem / Green votes will fail to transfer to Labour because it's only SV rather than AV. I cant see why he isnt favourite.
Well, there's been a fair wodge of shenanigans since he was elected in 2010. From afar it's a bit hard to assess whether that will help him or hinder him, but what gave me pause was the demographics. Bangladeshis make up 30% of the population, which is obviously a substantial minority, but it is still a minority. I can see Rahman getting a good chunk of the Bangladeshi vote, but I can also see his record putting off a good chunk of the rest. In addition, he was greatly helped last time by Labour making such a mess of the selection; I'd imagine (although I admit I don't know this to be the case) that they've got themselves better organised now.
He can lose quite a few votes and still win. Essentially this is a 2 horse race also - 6/4 seems fair value to me.
Well, there's been a fair wodge of shenanigans since he was elected in 2010.
There have but none of it will have greatly surprised many people who voted for him last time. I think Labour will get much closer than last time but he had twice as many votes as them last time!
Firefighers, teachers, train drivers and council staffs all planning strikes - time for some further anti- strike legislation to protect the real economy from these dangerous wreckers ?
What legislation would you like to see?
Majority of all staff must vote for a strike.
Head teachers can be provided info on what union a teacher belongs to before they employ them.
Refunds from the school/council if services are not provided.
Refunds from train companies to season ticket holders if trains cancelled due to strikes.
So you want compulsory voting for strike ballots?
No - can't be bovvered to vote = no strike.
What about those who can't be bovvered to vote in a GE? No government?
Not voting in a GE isn't denying services to the population at large.
We voted for a govt that was proposing austerity - we got it . Why wont firefighters accept that democratic mandate ?
But only 36% of the electorate voted for the Conservative party, of the public who could be bovvered, how's that a democratic mandate?
Via passive acceptance. The overall vote share actually went up , even if it is far too low, but the largest group of people voted for austerity (and then promptly hated any attempts to impose it, so it hasn't been as much as promised). People who did not want that but did not care enough to vote for anyone speaking out against austerity signalled their acceptance of that as an outcome, so they have a mandate to pursue such an agenda, and those who passively let it happen despite not liking it in 2010 will have to take the trouble to correct that error next time.
It does cause problems, low total vote share, during union discussion though, it is true.
Firefighers, teachers, train drivers and council staffs all planning strikes - time for some further anti- strike legislation to protect the real economy from these dangerous wreckers ?
What legislation would you like to see?
Majority of all staff must vote for a strike.
Head teachers can be provided info on what union a teacher belongs to before they employ them.
Refunds from the school/council if services are not provided.
Refunds from train companies to season ticket holders if trains cancelled due to strikes.
So you want compulsory voting for strike ballots?
No - can't be bovvered to vote = no strike.
What about those who can't be bovvered to vote in a GE? No government?
Not voting in a GE isn't denying services to the population at large.
We voted for a govt that was proposing austerity - we got it . Why wont firefighters accept that democratic mandate ?
But only 36% of the electorate voted for the Conservative party, of the public who could be bovvered, how's that a democratic mandate?
Hence there's a Coalition.
But most people who could be arsed to vote, didn't vote for the Tories, or the LDs. Only 65% turnout. Now, thats the system we've got, so thats how it is. Why should union members not be allowed to use a similar system, if it's good enough to vote in a government?
Mr. Stopper, You wouldn't countenance the idea that the Fire Service should give up its right to strike? The plod did in 1919 and haven't been half as badly fecked-over as firemen.
PP are offering 25/1 that a cornish pasty is thrown at any party leader before the GE. Surely it wouldn't be that hard to find one and throw a pasty at them?
Definition of Party? Some minor party leader might well be willing to accept such a fate as a good investment of party funds?
PP are offering 25/1 that a cornish pasty is thrown at any party leader before the GE. Surely it wouldn't be that hard to find one and throw a pasty at them?
Definition of Party? Some minor party leader might well be willing to accept such a fate as a good investment of party funds?
Fair point, it technically says "any party leader". I suspect they mean at least the top 3 though. It does have to be "thrown in protest" to count, but shouting 'Freedom for Cornwall' a few times should get the newspaper coverage to say it was.
It beggars belief that his twitter account wasn't gone through with a fine toothcomb doesn't it? Pretty poor from the Kippers I'd say
Nah, they are going to be caught out like this a lot simply because they have thousands of candidates and nowhere near enough resources to vet them all. It happened last year and it will happen again. I doubt it shifts many votes.
It beggars belief that his twitter account wasn't gone through with a fine toothcomb doesn't it? Pretty poor from the Kippers I'd say
Nah, they are going to be caught out like this a lot simply because they have thousands of candidates and nowhere near enough resources to vet them all. It happened last year and it will happen again. I doubt it shifts many votes.
There were only about 12 people in that advert though.
Most of them I recognise as UKIP media/candidates so obv theyre ok
But, without wanting to sound to stereotypical, if you've got a white Rhodesian moaning about immigration, best to check out his twitterfeed before you stick him in an advert
Firefighers, teachers, train drivers and council staffs all planning strikes - time for some further anti- strike legislation to protect the real economy from these dangerous wreckers ?
What legislation would you like to see?
Majority of all staff must vote for a strike.
Head teachers can be provided info on what union a teacher belongs to before they employ them.
Refunds from the school/council if services are not provided.
Refunds from train companies to season ticket holders if trains cancelled due to strikes.
So you want compulsory voting for strike ballots?
No - can't be bovvered to vote = no strike.
What about those who can't be bovvered to vote in a GE? No government?
Not voting in a GE isn't denying services to the population at large.
We voted for a govt that was proposing austerity - we got it . Why wont firefighters accept that democratic mandate ?
But only 36% of the electorate voted for the Conservative party, of the public who could be bovvered, how's that a democratic mandate?
Hence there's a Coalition.
But most people who could be arsed to vote, didn't vote for the Tories, or the LDs. Only 65% turnout. Now, thats the system we've got, so thats how it is. Why should union members not be allowed to use a similar system, if it's good enough to vote in a government?
Mr. Stopper, You wouldn't countenance the idea that the Fire Service should give up its right to strike? The plod did in 1919 and haven't been half as badly fecked-over as firemen.
Firefighers, teachers, train drivers and council staffs all planning strikes - time for some further anti- strike legislation to protect the real economy from these dangerous wreckers ?
What legislation would you like to see?
Majority of all staff must vote for a strike.
Head teachers can be provided info on what union a teacher belongs to before they employ them.
Refunds from the school/council if services are not provided.
Refunds from train companies to season ticket holders if trains cancelled due to strikes.
So you want compulsory voting for strike ballots?
No - can't be bovvered to vote = no strike.
What about those who can't be bovvered to vote in a GE? No government?
Not voting in a GE isn't denying services to the population at large.
We voted for a govt that was proposing austerity - we got it . Why wont firefighters accept that democratic mandate ?
But only 36% of the electorate voted for the Conservative party, of the public who could be bovvered, how's that a democratic mandate?
Via passive acceptance. The overall vote share actually went up , even if it is far too low, but the largest group of people voted for austerity (and then promptly hated any attempts to impose it, so it hasn't been as much as promised). People who did not want that but did not care enough to vote for anyone speaking out against austerity signalled their acceptance of that as an outcome, so they have a mandate to pursue such an agenda, and those who passively let it happen despite not liking it in 2010 will have to take the trouble to correct that error next time.
It does cause problems, low total vote share, during union discussion though, it is true.
There's no denying that, but if you can't be arsed to put a cross in one of two boxes, on something as important as strike action and then pop it in a prepaid envelope, you can't really whine if there's a result you don't like. It's even easier than voting in a GE!
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
It's not far off to be honest. Started under Labour, so don't get on your high horse just yet.
The leader of the Labour Party is a non person, voters pass him by in the street, they fail to recognise him or understand his message. Perhaps dogs fail to bark when he halts by them in the street. If he was such an asset a fleeting glimpse or mention might carry the undecided into his camp.
Perhaps Labour have finally realised that the elected the wrong Miliband, and that he is a toxic asset. Imagine the fuss Labour would make if Clegg/Cameron/Salmond/Farage was not shown or spoken about in a PPB. Essentially they have given up gilding the lily.
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
It's not far off to be honest. Started under Labour, so don't get on your high horse just yet.
I am entirely dismounted from any horse. Odd response given I am not responsible for the acts of the Blair government...
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
It's not far off to be honest. Started under Labour, so don't get on your high horse just yet.
Talking of the Fire Service, have we forgotten Labour's 'Firecontrol' scheme?
There's at least £0.5 billion that could have been 'invested' in firemen.
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
It's not far off to be honest. Started under Labour, so don't get on your high horse just yet.
I am entirely dismounted from any horse. Odd response given I am not responsible for the acts of the Blair government...
You were trying to suggest that Fire Service privatisation was a PB Tory thing. I was merely pointing out that the Tories might only be finishing what your preferred party started. Now, if you might be implying that Milliband would put a stop to it........
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
It's not far off to be honest. Started under Labour, so don't get on your high horse just yet.
Talking of the Fire Service, have we forgotten Labour's 'Firecontrol' scheme?
There's at least £0.5 billion that could have gone towards salary increases for firemen.
David Willetts pisses that much away every fortnight. And still no-one asks questions.
Craig Woodhouse @craigawoodhouse 52s Interesting PPB by Labour on ITV just now. No sign or mention of Ed Miliband.
Does every PPB feature the party leader? Hmm.
No - particularly when your leader is a weirdo.
Have you ever met him?
Can you only judge someone if you have met them - is listening to them speaking on tv not enough ?
No. Personality is buried by TV. Both Dave and Ed are very different in person, as are many people. I am always surprised that people don't realise this.
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
You want to privatise BA ? BT ? Vodaphone ? Pfizer ?
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
It's not far off to be honest. Started under Labour, so don't get on your high horse just yet.
I am entirely dismounted from any horse. Odd response given I am not responsible for the acts of the Blair government...
You were trying to suggest that Fire Service privatisation was a PB Tory thing. I was merely pointing out that the Tories might only be finishing what your preferred party started. Now, if you might be implying that Milliband would put a stop to it........
No. I said that they advocated it - which at least one did. I don't. It should be a state service, a public service not a business.
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
It's not far off to be honest. Started under Labour, so don't get on your high horse just yet.
Talking of the Fire Service, have we forgotten Labour's 'Firecontrol' scheme?
There's at least £0.5 billion that could have gone towards salary increases for firemen.
Still empty, gathering dust and with leaking roofs and windows. We dont want the money in increased salary, but they could have spent some of the money on better radios, improving training facilities, and a decent non fire search and rescue capability. Still, Prescott did ok out of it.
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
It's not far off to be honest. Started under Labour, so don't get on your high horse just yet.
I am entirely dismounted from any horse. Odd response given I am not responsible for the acts of the Blair government...
You were trying to suggest that Fire Service privatisation was a PB Tory thing. I was merely pointing out that the Tories might only be finishing what your preferred party started. Now, if you might be implying that Milliband would put a stop to it........
No. I said that they advocated it - which at least one did. I don't. It should be a state service, a public service not a business.
Why ? The guy who stops my house blowing up by servicing my boiler isn't a state employee - he's a ** GASP ** profit making sole trader !!
The motorways around our town are maintained by a private company - a valuable public service.
The telephone lines to call the fire brigade are run by ** GASP ** a profit making corporation !!
Star of Ukip advert suspended for calling Miliband 'not British', attacking 'evil' Islam and saying Africans should 'kill themselves'
Zimbabwean decorator Andre Lampitt posed in a builder's hard hat to complain that ‘lads from Eastern Europe’ were undercutting him.
But in a string of shocking posts on Twitter, the Ukip member claimed Ed Miliband is ‘not British’, condemned Islam as ‘evil’, branded the Prophet Mohammed a paedophile and said he wanted Africans to ‘kill themselves off’.
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
You want to privatise BA ? BT ? Vodaphone ? Pfizer ?
Cathy Newman @cathynewman · +++BREAKING...Lib Dem peer tells #c4news party should withdraw from coalition straight after euro elections. Watch interview shortly
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
You want to privatise BA ? BT ? Vodaphone ? Pfizer ?
Aren't they already privatised?
Yes - and booming because of it and providing a far better service than when they weren't
Star of Ukip advert suspended for calling Miliband 'not British', attacking 'evil' Islam and saying Africans should 'kill themselves'
Zimbabwean decorator Andre Lampitt posed in a builder's hard hat to complain that ‘lads from Eastern Europe’ were undercutting him.
But in a string of shocking posts on Twitter, the Ukip member claimed Ed Miliband is ‘not British’, condemned Islam as ‘evil’, branded the Prophet Mohammed a paedophile and said he wanted Africans to ‘kill themselves off’.
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
It's not far off to be honest. Started under Labour, so don't get on your high horse just yet.
I am entirely dismounted from any horse. Odd response given I am not responsible for the acts of the Blair government...
You were trying to suggest that Fire Service privatisation was a PB Tory thing. I was merely pointing out that the Tories might only be finishing what your preferred party started. Now, if you might be implying that Milliband would put a stop to it........
No. I said that they advocated it - which at least one did. I don't. It should be a state service, a public service not a business.
Why ? The guy who stops my house blowing up by servicing my boiler isn't a state employee - he's a ** GASP ** profit making sole trader !!
The motorways around our town are maintained by a private company - a valuable public service.
The telephone lines to call the fire brigade are run by ** GASP ** a profit making corporation !!
We demand state run telephones now !
I honestly believe that there are some things that should be a service, government run, not for profit. Police, Fire, Armed Forces, and some aspects of the NHS are the ones I'd want kept in state control. I'm just not sure how you can offer the best service trying to make money out of those emergency services.
So Farage, like Clegg, wants an unseemly scrap on the middle ground.This isn't news. The major parties have avoided really debating their merits in the simplest terms for years, and if you want to shake things up then that's the place to start..
James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers · Maaaathew? RT "@cathynewman BREAKING Lib Dem peer tells #c4news party should withdraw from coalition straight after euro elections"
I honestly believe that there are some things that should be a service, government run, not for profit. Police, Fire, Armed Forces, and some aspects of the NHS are the ones I'd want kept in state control. I'm just not sure how you can offer the best service trying to make money out of those emergency services.
But state control is not synonymous with directly state-run by state-employed staff.
For some bizarre reason no-one, even amongst the most leftie lefties, ever seems to worry about the fact that our GP service is 100% outsourced to private providers, run for profit. If GP surgeries, why not hospitals or fire stations? There may be practical reasons, of course, but the objections are almost always ideological. We should be able to have a sensible debate about the best way to organise things without all that nonsense about 'dismantling the NHS' or 'dismantling the fire service', any more than we've 'dismantled' the GP service (or rather, Attlee never mantled it!)
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
It's not far off to be honest. Started under Labour, so don't get on your high horse just yet.
I am entirely dismounted from any horse. Odd response given I am not responsible for the acts of the Blair government...
You were trying to suggest that Fire Service privatisation was a PB Tory thing. I was merely pointing out that the Tories might only be finishing what your preferred party started. Now, if you might be implying that Milliband would put a stop to it........
No. I said that they advocated it - which at least one did. I don't. It should be a state service, a public service not a business.
Why ? The guy who stops my house blowing up by servicing my boiler isn't a state employee - he's a ** GASP ** profit making sole trader !!
The motorways around our town are maintained by a private company - a valuable public service.
The telephone lines to call the fire brigade are run by ** GASP ** a profit making corporation !!
We demand state run telephones now !
I honestly believe that there are some things that should be a service, government run, not for profit. Police, Fire, Armed Forces, and some aspects of the NHS are the ones I'd want kept in state control. I'm just not sure how you can offer the best service trying to make money out of those emergency services.
Indeed. But they know better. Just ask them about Railtrack's long history of profit-motivated success and glory.
Yeah! One flew over the cuckoos nest. I'm glad that Andre Lampitt has been sacked. Now done swiftly, but it has done some damage to UKIP I'm afraid; if only to let the MSM have a field day with his deranged statements.
James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers · Maaaathew? RT "@cathynewman BREAKING Lib Dem peer tells #c4news party should withdraw from coalition straight after euro elections"
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
It's not far off to be honest. Started under Labour, so don't get on your high horse just yet.
I am entirely dismounted from any horse. Odd response given I am not responsible for the acts of the Blair government...
You were trying to suggest that Fire Service privatisation was a PB Tory thing. I was merely pointing out that the Tories might only be finishing what your preferred party started. Now, if you might be implying that Milliband would put a stop to it........
No. I said that they advocated it - which at least one did. I don't. It should be a state service, a public service not a business.
Why ? The guy who stops my house blowing up by servicing my boiler isn't a state employee - he's a ** GASP ** profit making sole trader !!
The motorways around our town are maintained by a private company - a valuable public service.
The telephone lines to call the fire brigade are run by ** GASP ** a profit making corporation !!
We demand state run telephones now !
I honestly believe that there are some things that should be a service, government run, not for profit. Police, Fire, Armed Forces, and some aspects of the NHS are the ones I'd want kept in state control. I'm just not sure how you can offer the best service trying to make money out of those emergency services.
I generally agree. The profit argument usually comes from running the system more efficiently. Sometimes this can be done; at others it cannot.
There are some things I would not want to see in the private sector; fire and police are two. However, that does not mean that they cannot work in partnership with the private sector on various things. But that road can get very complex...
Who are these "rip-off energy companies" that Labour's PPB mentions?
Or are they just denigrating a massively important sector?
Just because they are important doesn't mean they aren't ripping us off. Bit of a logic fail there JJ. Even the govt is worried - they have launched a probe after arguing that they, erm, weren't ripping us off, now they apparently suspect they are.....
Craig Woodhouse @craigawoodhouse 52s Interesting PPB by Labour on ITV just now. No sign or mention of Ed Miliband.
Does every PPB feature the party leader? Hmm.
Most, yes. Even if it is just a wrap up at the end.
Most. Not all. Some, then...
I haven't done an analysis. But I suspect the vast majorty of the big 3 parties include their leaders in their PPBs. After all they are aspiring PMs, and it wouldn't be right to deny the voters the chance to make an assessment would it?
Today's PB Tory wisdom: privatise the Fire Brigade. Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies. What could possibly go wrong?
You want to privatise BA ? BT ? Vodaphone ? Pfizer ?
Aren't they already privatised?
Yes - and booming because of it and providing a far better service than when they weren't
If privatisation is such a panacea why not privatise all roads, the police, the army, navy and Air Force? And all schools?
Craig Woodhouse @craigawoodhouse 52s Interesting PPB by Labour on ITV just now. No sign or mention of Ed Miliband.
Does every PPB feature the party leader? Hmm.
Most, yes. Even if it is just a wrap up at the end.
Most. Not all. Some, then...
I haven't done an analysis. But I suspect the vast majorty of the big 3 parties include their leaders in their PPBs. After all they are aspiring PMs, and it wouldn't be right to deny the voters the chance to make an assessment would it?
Well they aren't, because this is just one PPB of many!*
Comments
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10785963/Ukip-posterboy-suspended-after-claiming-Miliband-not-British.html
"Andre Lampitt, star of Ukip party broadcast, described Islam as evil and said Ed Miliband is "not British""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP
What's more, they seem to be able to provide rather better public services for less money, although of course they had the advantage of being free of Gordon Brown's influence.
Vote Conservative, you know it makes nonsense.
At least one poster here could agree with one of his views!
Mr. Charles, did your grandfather or great grandfather clean their own footwear? Did they carry their own bags? Noblesse Oblige, after all.
P.S. I used to keep shoe cleaning kit in the left bottom drawer of my desk, long with with glasses, an ash-tray and two bottles of whisky (something decent for when the nobs came to call and Famous Grouse for the lower orders).
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/poll-ukip-course-five-assembly-7029092
Divide and conquer is the way with unions. Raise the salaries of front line firemen and slash the pay of the back office people
Back office people strike for a few days. So f8cking what??
When he came from Rhodesia, do you think he took a British job?
Many of the Tory / Lib Dem / Green votes will fail to transfer to Labour because it's only SV rather than AV. I cant see why he isnt favourite.
No change in UKIP VI score from YouGov but 12-13% shift in the market
UKIP were polling 14% on 30/04/13 and 14% yesterday with YouGov
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2
UKIP to poll 10-15%
This time last year 4/1 now 2/1 (20% to 33.3%)
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/ukip-vote-percentage/bet-history/10-15-pp/today
UKIP to poll 0-5%
This time last year 9/4 now 9/2 (30.7% to 18.18%)
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/ukip-vote-percentage/bet-history/0-5-pp/today
No service then the contract isn't renewed.
If firefighter inc want to have a John Lewis type arrangement then go for it.
At least then the govt of the day could get some value for money.
And I wouldn't have thought being linked to "Islamic Forum of Europe" would be a hindrance in Tower Hamlets
£20 on.
Is that a gun in your pants, or are you just glad to see me?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/24/tennesse_penal_introduction/
He was right about Enoch and wrong on everything else by the look of it
I wonder what the next thread will be about!
We're all in it together!
;-)
It does cause problems, low total vote share, during union discussion though, it is true.
It beggars belief that his twitter account wasn't gone through with a fine toothcomb doesn't it? Pretty poor from the Kippers I'd say
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/other-politics/UK-Politics-Specials
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27145821
Most of them I recognise as UKIP media/candidates so obv theyre ok
But, without wanting to sound to stereotypical, if you've got a white Rhodesian moaning about immigration, best to check out his twitterfeed before you stick him in an advert
Craig Woodhouse @craigawoodhouse 52s
Interesting PPB by Labour on ITV just now. No sign or mention of Ed Miliband.
Eck won't have a problem bailing it out, will he?
Just 5 people in the Ukip PPB.
Creating a profit incentive in an emergency service. Get some cost efficiencies.
What could possibly go wrong?
http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/04/ukip-spoiler-party-rips-off-octopus-election-broadcast-from-2005/
Perhaps Labour have finally realised that the elected the wrong Miliband, and that he is a toxic asset. Imagine the fuss Labour would make if Clegg/Cameron/Salmond/Farage was not shown or spoken about in a PPB. Essentially they have given up gilding the lily.
Most, not a Most. Not all.
Some, then...
There's at least £0.5 billion that could have been 'invested' in firemen.
David Willetts pisses that much away every fortnight. And still no-one asks questions.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jennymccartney/100268950/in-their-efforts-to-make-tuition-fees-fairer-the-coalition-has-created-a-financial-mess/
No. Personality is buried by TV.
Both Dave and Ed are very different in person, as are many people.
I am always surprised that people don't realise this.
Or are they just denigrating a massively important sector?
It's quite common for PPBs to feature no politicians at all.
I don't. It should be a state service, a public service not a business.
Why ? The guy who stops my house blowing up by servicing my boiler isn't a state employee - he's a ** GASP ** profit making sole trader !!
The motorways around our town are maintained by a private company - a valuable public service.
The telephone lines to call the fire brigade are run by ** GASP ** a profit making corporation !!
We demand state run telephones now !
Zimbabwean decorator Andre Lampitt posed in a builder's hard hat to complain that ‘lads from Eastern Europe’ were undercutting him.
But in a string of shocking posts on Twitter, the Ukip member claimed Ed Miliband is ‘not British’, condemned Islam as ‘evil’, branded the Prophet Mohammed a paedophile and said he wanted Africans to ‘kill themselves off’.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2612361/Star-Ukip-advert-suspended-calling-Miliband-not-British-attacking-evil-Islam-saying-Africans-kill-themselves.html
Privatise the army, then if the b8ggers don't turn up , dock their pay instead of shooting them
+++BREAKING...Lib Dem peer tells #c4news party should withdraw from coalition straight after euro elections. Watch interview shortly
@oflynndirector: So which other Lab MPs would like to publicly back Mike Gapes's view that UKIP posters are "racist"?
James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers ·
Maaaathew? RT "@cathynewman BREAKING Lib Dem peer tells #c4news party should withdraw from coalition straight after euro elections"
Cathy Newman @cathynewman ·
@jameschappers how did you guess?!?
lol
UKIP election broadcast star @AndreLampitt – who wants all Africans to “kill themselves off” – is also a council candidate in Merton...
For some bizarre reason no-one, even amongst the most leftie lefties, ever seems to worry about the fact that our GP service is 100% outsourced to private providers, run for profit. If GP surgeries, why not hospitals or fire stations? There may be practical reasons, of course, but the objections are almost always ideological. We should be able to have a sensible debate about the best way to organise things without all that nonsense about 'dismantling the NHS' or 'dismantling the fire service', any more than we've 'dismantled' the GP service (or rather, Attlee never mantled it!)
The party is screwed. They may as well have a gamble.
There are some things I would not want to see in the private sector; fire and police are two. However, that does not mean that they cannot work in partnership with the private sector on various things. But that road can get very complex...
;-)
Even the govt is worried - they have launched a probe after arguing that they, erm, weren't ripping us off, now they apparently suspect they are.....
As was said at the time of the NHS creation, they had to stuff their (GP's) mouths with gold.
*and no-one watches them anyway!