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A reminder on how Andy Burnham performed in his two previous leadership campaigns

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  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,132

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/2068370042018767262

    POLL: ICE has been abused by the Fake News Media at levels never seen before. They are Great Patriots who work hard, and do a fantastic job in a very hostile environment. Much of this hostility is caused by the Dumocrats and the Fake News. The concept I have had for quite some time — A strong feeling that the name of these Patriots, “ICE,” should be changed to, “NICE,” in that it will totally discombobulate Crooked, Dishonest, and Unpatriotic Reporters and Journalists. For them to say, “We went to a NICE Facility today,” as opposed to “ICE” or, “NICE Agents have deported a Violent Drug Dealer,” they won’t be able to handle it, they will go totally crazy! All it means is adding an “N” (“National”) to “ICE (“Immigration and Customs Enforcement”) — A much more prestigious name. Everyone loves it, but I have been told by the legendary Tom Homan that the Agents do not love it as much as the other population. Who thinks that we should add an “N” to change the name of “ICE” to “NICE?”
     
    Thank you for your attention to this matter! President DJT

    I'm feeling generous. So I won't just award President Trump an N for himself for his incredible public service. I'll also award him a C, T and U too.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,138
    viewcode said:

    Profile of Rupert Lowe on Radio 4 at 7pm for 15mins.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xzmn

    That long? You would have thought a couple of words would do.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,132
    DavidL said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    JD Vance: "My understanding talking to Steve and Jared this morning is that things are going well ... the United States has all the cards. The straits are now open."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2068341814889721881

    Still have failed to recognise the power of a strait. No wonder their boss lost so much with casinos.
    Indeed Iran may be very different and hostile but at the end of the day she is a powerful state within the region. It was folly to poker.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,411
    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Not looking forward to 37 degrees on Wednesday without AC.

    Move to Scotland. Forecast here for Wednesday is 19C and overcast :)
    No wonder they just voted for more oil drilling.
    It has been an unseasonably cold and rainy (plus sleet a few times) spring and summer in Scotland.
    Cold yes, because it's Scotland. Unseasonably so, sadly not. Warmer than average

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/api/assets/file/SeasonalAssessment-Spring26pdf?prefix=assets&prefix=assets
    Colder than last year.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,534

    Burnham will govern from the centre right on immigration IMHO

    I'm gonna be honest I think no one really knows what he will be like. There has been a lot of projection so far. He is someone who has been in many labour groups over the years. What does the real AB actually think?
    From 1945 to today all UK governments have governed within a fairly fixed frame of social democracy. That this should remain the case is completely uncontested outside the powerless but loud extremes of left and right. I don't think there is the tiniest chance of Burnham changing that.

    Within that frame there are big issues of course, of which perhaps the largest are competence at running things, assimilation and borders and migration, communication of a national narrative vision with a bit of hope and uplift, international relationships, and how to pay for the requirements of a modern social democratic state.

    If Burnham addressed all those quite well, without bothering about complex beliefs of any sort or tinkering sorts of change, he would be the best PM for some time. Don't hold your breath.

    outside rhetoric for the faithful, left, right and all that won't enter into it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,093
    edited 5:46PM

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    JD Vance: "My understanding talking to Steve and Jared this morning is that things are going well ... the United States has all the cards. The straits are now open."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2068341814889721881

    It should be renamed Schrödinger's Strait as it is similtaneously open and closed.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,907

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/2068370042018767262

    POLL: ICE has been abused by the Fake News Media at levels never seen before. They are Great Patriots who work hard, and do a fantastic job in a very hostile environment. Much of this hostility is caused by the Dumocrats and the Fake News. The concept I have had for quite some time — A strong feeling that the name of these Patriots, “ICE,” should be changed to, “NICE,” in that it will totally discombobulate Crooked, Dishonest, and Unpatriotic Reporters and Journalists. For them to say, “We went to a NICE Facility today,” as opposed to “ICE” or, “NICE Agents have deported a Violent Drug Dealer,” they won’t be able to handle it, they will go totally crazy! All it means is adding an “N” (“National”) to “ICE (“Immigration and Customs Enforcement”) — A much more prestigious name. Everyone loves it, but I have been told by the legendary Tom Homan that the Agents do not love it as much as the other population. Who thinks that we should add an “N” to change the name of “ICE” to “NICE?”
     
    Thank you for your attention to this matter! President DJT

    NURSE!!!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,966

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/2068370042018767262

    POLL: ICE has been abused by the Fake News Media at levels never seen before. They are Great Patriots who work hard, and do a fantastic job in a very hostile environment. Much of this hostility is caused by the Dumocrats and the Fake News. The concept I have had for quite some time — A strong feeling that the name of these Patriots, “ICE,” should be changed to, “NICE,” in that it will totally discombobulate Crooked, Dishonest, and Unpatriotic Reporters and Journalists. For them to say, “We went to a NICE Facility today,” as opposed to “ICE” or, “NICE Agents have deported a Violent Drug Dealer,” they won’t be able to handle it, they will go totally crazy! All it means is adding an “N” (“National”) to “ICE (“Immigration and Customs Enforcement”) — A much more prestigious name. Everyone loves it, but I have been told by the legendary Tom Homan that the Agents do not love it as much as the other population. Who thinks that we should add an “N” to change the name of “ICE” to “NICE?”
     
    Thank you for your attention to this matter! President DJT

    He's much better at the inane needle than he is at economics or geopolitics, I'll give him that.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,344
    viewcode said:

    MelonB said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    JD Vance: "My understanding talking to Steve and Jared this morning is that things are going well ... the United States has all the cards. The straits are now open."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2068341814889721881

    "We have all the cards" has famously always reassured the markets.
    I just worked it out. You are the second prototype and the ninth prototype (Melon-I) became PM of italy
    I've had a joke of that ilk lined up for months awaiting a suitable occasion to deploy (I was likely to go a seventh daughter route, I think). My fault I left it, Viewcode actually got the comment in and I concede to him happy that it has got an airing.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,093

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Not looking forward to 37 degrees on Wednesday without AC.

    Move to Scotland. Forecast here for Wednesday is 19C and overcast :)
    No wonder they just voted for more oil drilling.
    It has been an unseasonably cold and rainy (plus sleet a few times) spring and summer in Scotland.
    Cold yes, because it's Scotland. Unseasonably so, sadly not. Warmer than average

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/api/assets/file/SeasonalAssessment-Spring26pdf?prefix=assets&prefix=assets
    Colder than last year.
    The North Atlantic "Cold Blob":

    https://edition.cnn.com/2026/06/12/climate/cold-blob-atlantic-amoc-ocean-circulation

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,161

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Not looking forward to 37 degrees on Wednesday without AC.

    Move to Scotland. Forecast here for Wednesday is 19C and overcast :)
    No wonder they just voted for more oil drilling.
    It has been an unseasonably cold and rainy (plus sleet a few times) spring and summer in Scotland.
    Cold yes, because it's Scotland. Unseasonably so, sadly not. Warmer than average

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/api/assets/file/SeasonalAssessment-Spring26pdf?prefix=assets&prefix=assets
    Colder than last year.
    We were able to sit outside today. It’s only the second time this year. Talking to friends and neighbours, we have all still had to put the heating on recently. Global warming, Malc’s arse!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,132
    Pro_Rata said:

    viewcode said:

    MelonB said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    JD Vance: "My understanding talking to Steve and Jared this morning is that things are going well ... the United States has all the cards. The straits are now open."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2068341814889721881

    "We have all the cards" has famously always reassured the markets.
    I just worked it out. You are the second prototype and the ninth prototype (Melon-I) became PM of italy
    I've had a joke of that ilk lined up for months awaiting a suitable occasion to deploy (I was likely to go a seventh daughter route, I think). My fault I left it, Viewcode actually got the comment in and I concede to him happy that it has got an airing.
    Now I'm very confused. Which one of you had JokeA and which one JokeB?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,966
    Foxy said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    JD Vance: "My understanding talking to Steve and Jared this morning is that things are going well ... the United States has all the cards. The straits are now open."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2068341814889721881

    It should be renamed Schrödinger's Strait as it is similtaneosly open and closed.
    I think the endstate will be that they are open in Trump's mind and closed everywhere else.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,161
    Foxy said:

    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Not looking forward to 37 degrees on Wednesday without AC.

    Move to Scotland. Forecast here for Wednesday is 19C and overcast :)
    No wonder they just voted for more oil drilling.
    It has been an unseasonably cold and rainy (plus sleet a few times) spring and summer in Scotland.
    Cold yes, because it's Scotland. Unseasonably so, sadly not. Warmer than average

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/api/assets/file/SeasonalAssessment-Spring26pdf?prefix=assets&prefix=assets
    Colder than last year.
    The North Atlantic "Cold Blob":

    https://edition.cnn.com/2026/06/12/climate/cold-blob-atlantic-amoc-ocean-circulation

    Cold blob? That’s the Scottish Civil Service!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,984
    I have just worked out that my phone can be used as a radio. I'm trying to snooze through the heat whilst listening to Radio 4. It's oddly pleasant.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,344

    Pro_Rata said:

    viewcode said:

    MelonB said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    JD Vance: "My understanding talking to Steve and Jared this morning is that things are going well ... the United States has all the cards. The straits are now open."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2068341814889721881

    "We have all the cards" has famously always reassured the markets.
    I just worked it out. You are the second prototype and the ninth prototype (Melon-I) became PM of italy
    I've had a joke of that ilk lined up for months awaiting a suitable occasion to deploy (I was likely to go a seventh daughter route, I think). My fault I left it, Viewcode actually got the comment in and I concede to him happy that it has got an airing.
    Now I'm very confused. Which one of you had JokeA and which one JokeB?
    And which is the JokeR?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,907
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    JD Vance: "My understanding talking to Steve and Jared this morning is that things are going well ... the United States has all the cards. The straits are now open."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2068341814889721881

    It should be renamed Schrödinger's Strait as it is similtaneosly open and closed.
    I think the endstate will be that they are open in Trump's mind and closed everywhere else.
    He will try to collapse the wavefunction by bombing the shit out of....something.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,403
    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,093
    Sweden knocking on the door, but it ain't opening.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,411
    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    I am feeling moderately optimistic about La Burnham. I think he'll try to be genuinely popular, and I'd like to believe that means giving the shaft to some of the old regime's worst authoritarian and ecoloony policies. That could be misplaced optimism, but hey.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,041
    Brixian59 said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Excellent article by Charles Moore in the Telegraph on why Labour should not give Burnham a coronation

    "A Burnham coup would be disastrous for Labour – and the country" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/19/burnham-coup-would-be-disastrous-for-labour-and-country/

    He is right. It's the summer months so they have the space to do a proper debate. If he was smart Starmer would do what Michael Howard did: arrange a proper debate between the candidate. That resulted in David Cameron and six years of Conservative or adjacent government.

    But Starmer is not smart and will not do that.
    What the feck does the Telegraph know about the Labour Party

    It's got feck all yo do with them.
    Opponents can sometimes have a better insight by virtue of seeing things from outside.

    I doubt it here though.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,403

    So glad I’ve got AC in my flat, go London!

    How much did it cost to install?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,297
    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    Profile of Rupert Lowe on Radio 4 at 7pm for 15mins.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xzmn

    That long? You would have thought a couple of words would do.
    They are not allowed to use those words on Radio 4
  • Andy_JS said:

    So glad I’ve got AC in my flat, go London!

    How much did it cost to install?
    Zero
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,041
    viewcode said:

    Profile of Rupert Lowe on Radio 4 at 7pm for 15mins.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xzmn

    That's a lot of time to say 'racist'. But there is a bit more about him i guess.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,403
    viewcode said:

    I have just worked out that my phone can be used as a radio. I'm trying to snooze through the heat whilst listening to Radio 4. It's oddly pleasant.

    Why has it taken you 15 years to work that out, lol.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,099

    Andy Burnham is going to be a left-wing nightmare.

    There are some on here that would have classed Oswald Mosley as a left wing nightmare.
    Relative to their (current) viewpoints Oswald was a left wing hippy.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,966
    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    He'd surely love to but it's against the rules. And that's a problem for him. The 'outsider' vibe is electoral gold and it could be seriously damaged by a neat suit and tie. I'd be advising him to wear it only in the chamber. Perhaps even make a point of looking uncomfortable in it, like a loveable rogue in the dock.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,949
    Did Burnham stand against Corbyn?

    He’s such a nonentity that no one would remember

    And he’s now the new white male Labour needs as leader
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,041
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    He'd surely love to but it's against the rules. And that's a problem for him. The 'outsider' vibe is electoral gold and it could be seriously damaged by a neat suit and tie. I'd be advising him to wear it only in the chamber. Perhaps even make a point of looking uncomfortable in it, like a loveable rogue in the dock.
    There isn't a rule about ties (though people think there is), but formailty yes.

    Accomodations can be made, as for Jared O'Mara during his brief moments in parliament between his criminal activity.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,161
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    He'd surely love to but it's against the rules. And that's a problem for him. The 'outsider' vibe is electoral gold and it could be seriously damaged by a neat suit and tie. I'd be advising him to wear it only in the chamber. Perhaps even make a point of looking uncomfortable in it, like a loveable rogue in the dock.
    He should wear the black t-shirt and jacket and dare the Speaker to tell him to change. I feel sorry for politicians having to wear suits and ties. They would seem more human dressed more casually.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,634
    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Entirely off thread, but I'm having a lovely day. My daughter and I are cycling coast to coast in aid of her trip nezt year to do voluntary work in Cambodia. 50 miles today, 50 milea tomorrow. The weather is being implausibly kind and the North of England ia beautiful. There is much of Northern Cumbria which is new to me - Silloth is surprisingly impressive with its views over the Solway - and, in the sunshine, the lanes and small villages between the Lake District and the Solway are gorgeous, with wide views to Scotland, the Pennines and the Cumbrian Fells. I particularly enjoyed the band of sandstone villages south of Carlisle.
    We are now in Haltwhistle, opposite the Centre of Britain hotel and just down the street from the Centre of Britain launderette. Haltwhistle is full of exuberant teenagers, presumably revelling in GCSEs and A Levels being over and the joy of being young and free and at large in the summer.

    All downhill from here. Except for the absolute bastard of a climb up to the Stanegate tomorrow morning to avoid the A69.

    Here are our bikes at Silloth, dipping their wheels in the Irish Sea (sort of - it seemed above and beyond the call of duty to pilot them all the way out to the waterline given the tide, and they needed to be rescued from sinking into the wet sand shortly after this.
    (It would have been a poor start to the adventure to lose our bikes to quicksand.)

    Not far from my home patch where I have been for 35 years. A few miles from your photo there used, incredibly, to be a railway bridge across the Solway linking remote England to remote Scotland. An old friend of mine, who died in this century aged 101, was on that railway journey over the Solway on the day it closed to passengers in 1920.

    I saw that on an old map the other day and was marvelling that there was ever a business case for that! People from Annan must have really, really wanted to go to Silloth. Incredible that you know someone who used it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,966

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    I am feeling moderately optimistic about La Burnham. I think he'll try to be genuinely popular, and I'd like to believe that means giving the shaft to some of the old regime's worst authoritarian and ecoloony policies. That could be misplaced optimism, but hey.
    Happy for you to feel that. You have to take it where you can in life. However I doubt he'll be doing anything you approve of and lots that you don't. Something will have gone badly awry otherwise.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,410

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/2068370042018767262

    POLL: ICE has been abused by the Fake News Media at levels never seen before. They are Great Patriots who work hard, and do a fantastic job in a very hostile environment. Much of this hostility is caused by the Dumocrats and the Fake News. The concept I have had for quite some time — A strong feeling that the name of these Patriots, “ICE,” should be changed to, “NICE,” in that it will totally discombobulate Crooked, Dishonest, and Unpatriotic Reporters and Journalists. For them to say, “We went to a NICE Facility today,” as opposed to “ICE” or, “NICE Agents have deported a Violent Drug Dealer,” they won’t be able to handle it, they will go totally crazy! All it means is adding an “N” (“National”) to “ICE (“Immigration and Customs Enforcement”) — A much more prestigious name. Everyone loves it, but I have been told by the legendary Tom Homan that the Agents do not love it as much as the other population. Who thinks that we should add an “N” to change the name of “ICE” to “NICE?”
     
    Thank you for your attention to this matter! President DJT

    The national institute for health and care excellence might take him to court and sue for fifty million thousand trillion dollars.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,093
    edited 6:09PM
    Dutch have clinical finishers. 3 nil.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,966

    Did Burnham stand against Corbyn?

    He’s such a nonentity that no one would remember

    And he’s now the new white male Labour needs as leader

    Quite a result in Makerfield for a nonentity.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,041
    edited 6:17PM

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    He'd surely love to but it's against the rules. And that's a problem for him. The 'outsider' vibe is electoral gold and it could be seriously damaged by a neat suit and tie. I'd be advising him to wear it only in the chamber. Perhaps even make a point of looking uncomfortable in it, like a loveable rogue in the dock.
    He should wear the black t-shirt and jacket and dare the Speaker to tell him to change. I feel sorry for politicians having to wear suits and ties. They would seem more human dressed more casually.
    I think formal occasions deserve a level of formality. I don't think people would feel more kindly towards them if in shorts amd a t shirt.

    But then i am perfectly comfortable in a suit, i don't understand the idea they are not.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,949
    kinabalu said:

    Did Burnham stand against Corbyn?

    He’s such a nonentity that no one would remember

    And he’s now the new white male Labour needs as leader

    Quite a result in Makerfield for a nonentity.
    The anti-Starmer vote played at least a small part
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,093

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    He'd surely love to but it's against the rules. And that's a problem for him. The 'outsider' vibe is electoral gold and it could be seriously damaged by a neat suit and tie. I'd be advising him to wear it only in the chamber. Perhaps even make a point of looking uncomfortable in it, like a loveable rogue in the dock.
    He should wear the black t-shirt and jacket and dare the Speaker to tell him to change. I feel sorry for politicians having to wear suits and ties. They would seem more human dressed more casually.
    One thing that has always struck me about how uncomfortable Starmer appears in his suit, yet nearly always wears one, even when "smart casual" would be fine.

    Burnham always looks comfortable in his clothes, whether t-shirt or suit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,093
    Dutch scoring for fun now. 4 nil.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,045
    Foxy said:

    Dutch have clinical finishers. 3 nil.

    4-0 what's up with Sweden?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,938
    kinabalu said:

    Did Burnham stand against Corbyn?

    He’s such a nonentity that no one would remember

    And he’s now the new white male Labour needs as leader

    Quite a result in Makerfield for a nonentity.
    He won't last, this Burnham chap.

    Unfortunately the vote for him and the weird fawning of the PLP will have bolstered his confidence. Still, we won't be troubled by Labour governments much in the future.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,665
    DavidL said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    JD Vance: "My understanding talking to Steve and Jared this morning is that things are going well ... the United States has all the cards. The straits are now open."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2068341814889721881

    Still have failed to recognise the power of a strait. No wonder their boss lost so much with casinos.
    He’s royally flushed with success.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,906
    When I placed my bet on Scotland getting knocked out, I didn't have Group F on the radar as one that Scotland might finish above.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,124

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    He'd surely love to but it's against the rules. And that's a problem for him. The 'outsider' vibe is electoral gold and it could be seriously damaged by a neat suit and tie. I'd be advising him to wear it only in the chamber. Perhaps even make a point of looking uncomfortable in it, like a loveable rogue in the dock.
    He should wear the black t-shirt and jacket and dare the Speaker to tell him to change. I feel sorry for politicians having to wear suits and ties. They would seem more human dressed more casually.
    He could make it a point about sexism and get all the female Labour MPs to dress the same way in solidarity.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,045
    That's better - 4-1.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,032
    Great fun game to watch.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,403
    Netherlands 4
    Sweden 1
    59 mins
  • eekeek Posts: 34,099
    edited 6:21PM
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Did Burnham stand against Corbyn?

    He’s such a nonentity that no one would remember

    And he’s now the new white male Labour needs as leader

    Quite a result in Makerfield for a nonentity.
    He won't last, this Burnham chap.

    Unfortunately the vote for him and the weird fawning of the PLP will have bolstered his confidence. Still, we won't be troubled by Labour governments much in the future.
    So we go Reform in 2029, Green in 2033?

    Let's hope not...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,534
    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Entirely off thread, but I'm having a lovely day. My daughter and I are cycling coast to coast in aid of her trip nezt year to do voluntary work in Cambodia. 50 miles today, 50 milea tomorrow. The weather is being implausibly kind and the North of England ia beautiful. There is much of Northern Cumbria which is new to me - Silloth is surprisingly impressive with its views over the Solway - and, in the sunshine, the lanes and small villages between the Lake District and the Solway are gorgeous, with wide views to Scotland, the Pennines and the Cumbrian Fells. I particularly enjoyed the band of sandstone villages south of Carlisle.
    We are now in Haltwhistle, opposite the Centre of Britain hotel and just down the street from the Centre of Britain launderette. Haltwhistle is full of exuberant teenagers, presumably revelling in GCSEs and A Levels being over and the joy of being young and free and at large in the summer.

    All downhill from here. Except for the absolute bastard of a climb up to the Stanegate tomorrow morning to avoid the A69.

    Here are our bikes at Silloth, dipping their wheels in the Irish Sea (sort of - it seemed above and beyond the call of duty to pilot them all the way out to the waterline given the tide, and they needed to be rescued from sinking into the wet sand shortly after this.
    (It would have been a poor start to the adventure to lose our bikes to quicksand.)

    Not far from my home patch where I have been for 35 years. A few miles from your photo there used, incredibly, to be a railway bridge across the Solway linking remote England to remote Scotland. An old friend of mine, who died in this century aged 101, was on that railway journey over the Solway on the day it closed to passengers in 1920.

    I saw that on an old map the other day and was marvelling that there was ever a business case for that! People from Annan must have really, really wanted to go to Silloth. Incredible that you know someone who used it.
    It never made money! IIRC the main purpose was the transport of iron ore/coal, and I think it remained open for goods for a time after closure for passengers. The bridge itself - the footings can still be seen on both sides - remained until being damaged by ice floes in the 1930s and then taken down. I have often heard stories from older Cumberland people of Scots walking the bridge to drink on Sundays. My late father in law, b 1922, remembered well the bridge still in place.

    The track of the line passes very obviously right through Annan, desolately fenced in. It ought to be but isn't a wonderful footpath. Worth a trip for fans of obscure bits of railway history, as are the footings at Bowness. The book on it is Sinton, 'Solway Junction Railway'.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,952
    tlg86 said:

    When I placed my bet on Scotland getting knocked out, I didn't have Group F on the radar as one that Scotland might finish above.

    About 2 hours ago I got a push notification saying Sweden were looking to seal qualification for the knockout stages.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,045

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    He'd surely love to but it's against the rules. And that's a problem for him. The 'outsider' vibe is electoral gold and it could be seriously damaged by a neat suit and tie. I'd be advising him to wear it only in the chamber. Perhaps even make a point of looking uncomfortable in it, like a loveable rogue in the dock.
    He should wear the black t-shirt and jacket and dare the Speaker to tell him to change. I feel sorry for politicians having to wear suits and ties. They would seem more human dressed more casually.
    He could make it a point about sexism and get all the female Labour MPs to dress the same way in solidarity.
    Burqas???
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,665
    I thought for a moment that Labour had decided on an exceptionally dramatic way to rid themselves of Starmer.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,716
    Barnesian said:

    Starmer has three important international Summit meetings coming up.

    1. NATO on 8th July in Ankara
    2. EU on 22nd July in Brussels
    3. G20 on 15th Dec in Miami.
    I suspect that Burnham will agree to Starmer remaining PM to attend the first two, but will want to introduce himself on the world stage at the G20 in December.
    I think that could be a bad idea. It will reduce Burnham's time to the next election by about 20% compared to say July. I quite like the idea of SKS as Foreign Minister, with them going to 22nd July EU in tandem.

    I think he needs to hit the ground running, and I think he is better prepared than Mr Starmer was; though I'm not sure how much better that is.

    I'd even suggest that a midsummer period in Parliament - as in 2024 - would be a good idea if it is possible.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,952
    ydoethur said:

    I thought for a moment that Labour had decided on an exceptionally dramatic way to rid themselves of Starmer.
    As if I would ever resort to clickbait.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,093
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    He'd surely love to but it's against the rules. And that's a problem for him. The 'outsider' vibe is electoral gold and it could be seriously damaged by a neat suit and tie. I'd be advising him to wear it only in the chamber. Perhaps even make a point of looking uncomfortable in it, like a loveable rogue in the dock.
    He should wear the black t-shirt and jacket and dare the Speaker to tell him to change. I feel sorry for politicians having to wear suits and ties. They would seem more human dressed more casually.
    I think formal occasions deserve a level of formality. I don't think people would feel more kindly towards them if in shorts amd a t shirt.

    But then i am perfectly comfortable in a suit, i don't understand the idea they are not.
    Burnham has good taste in suits, and appreciates both quality and a bargain.

    https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/andy-burnham-mayor-greater-manchester-armani-suit
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 2,009
    Lord Falcolner on BBC news effectively saying Starmer’s position as PM is untenable.

    The big question. Will Lord Falcolner resign?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,952
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    He'd surely love to but it's against the rules. And that's a problem for him. The 'outsider' vibe is electoral gold and it could be seriously damaged by a neat suit and tie. I'd be advising him to wear it only in the chamber. Perhaps even make a point of looking uncomfortable in it, like a loveable rogue in the dock.
    He should wear the black t-shirt and jacket and dare the Speaker to tell him to change. I feel sorry for politicians having to wear suits and ties. They would seem more human dressed more casually.
    I think formal occasions deserve a level of formality. I don't think people would feel more kindly towards them if in shorts amd a t shirt.

    But then i am perfectly comfortable in a suit, i don't understand the idea they are not.
    Which is why I own 3 morning suits.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,045

    Did Burnham stand against Corbyn?

    He’s such a nonentity that no one would remember

    And he’s now the new white male Labour needs as leader

    Yes he did stand, and lost heavily!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,041
    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    Starmer has three important international Summit meetings coming up.

    1. NATO on 8th July in Ankara
    2. EU on 22nd July in Brussels
    3. G20 on 15th Dec in Miami.
    I suspect that Burnham will agree to Starmer remaining PM to attend the first two, but will want to introduce himself on the world stage at the G20 in December.
    I think that could be a bad idea. It will reduce Burnham's time to the next election by about 20% compared to say July. I quite like the idea of SKS as Foreign Minister, with them going to 22nd July EU in tandem.

    I think he needs to hit the ground running, and I think he is better prepared than Mr Starmer was; though I'm not sure how much better that is.

    I'd even suggest that a midsummer period in Parliament - as in 2024 - would be a good idea if it is possible.
    A summer schmoozing with MPs and planning big announcements at Conference.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,098
    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    The fact there has been virtually no change in Makerfield between 2024 and now suggests that it isn’t Labour that’s the problem, it’s Keir Starmer.

    The underlying problem is the country wants changes that are 1) too expensive for our budget and/or 2) implausible. So any candidate representing the status quo is going to lose to a change candidate for the next decade at least. Policies, values etc are not that important, if we had a Conservative or Reform govt they would be extremely unpopular too.

    Burnham has gone too early - he should have taken over in 2027 and portrayed himself as a change candidate in 2028. It will be very difficult to portray himself as a change candidate when he has been there for a couple of years.
    I think Starmer would have worked as a change candidate were it not for winter fuel. Everything that came after was downhill but that was the initial destructive act. I supported the policy but it was utterly toxic against the new Labour coalition as to be fair many Labour MPs said at the time.

    Mandelson would have been easily survivable by somebody with more popularity.

    From a party POV, he should have made benefit reform a confidence issue and then quit then if it hadn’t passed. Letting that go just gave the PLP the magic money tree. Burnham will have to grapple with that too but he will start with goodwill.
    Surely the point of the Labour Party is to attempt to solve national problems with policies that match the culture of the Labour Party?

    The WFA cut seemed like an attempt of cod-Thatcherism. No Labour MP went into politics to cheer cutting benefits.

    You want to reduce the welfare bill, but are a Labour PM? What do Labour MPs like? Benefits targeted to the poorest, perhaps?

    So announce all the old age extras are going in a blender. The result will be means tests/taxed, so as to target the poorest pensioners.

    Then you sell that to the MPs as a reform that makes the poor better off, while being fiscally prudent.
    No labour MP went into parliament wanting to make a difficult decision. They want to open fetes, garden centres, shops, and do lots of feel good social work while not upsetting anyone.
    Taz, and make plenty of cash, expenses, second houses. A lucrative business for useless donkeys.
    I saw recently that Glenys Kinnock's estate was valued at about £1.5million. Now she was an MEP for 15 years rather than an MP. But given that she was a teacher before entering politics, it is hard to see how she could have amassed such a fortune.

    Politics is clearly about money for the politicians.
    Have you seen the price of houses these days?
    In the Kinnocks Wales?
    We have several homes by us in the 1 million region with one seafront home within 400 yards being fully restored and going on the market for 3 million

    From *2011* and it wasn't even a home.

    Abersoch home to UK's most expensive mobile home at £550K

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/northwestwales/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9358000/9358303.stm
    We used to go to Abersoch on holiday as kids, as it was a cheap beach holiday.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,093
    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    Starmer has three important international Summit meetings coming up.

    1. NATO on 8th July in Ankara
    2. EU on 22nd July in Brussels
    3. G20 on 15th Dec in Miami.
    I suspect that Burnham will agree to Starmer remaining PM to attend the first two, but will want to introduce himself on the world stage at the G20 in December.
    I think that could be a bad idea. It will reduce Burnham's time to the next election by about 20% compared to say July. I quite like the idea of SKS as Foreign Minister, with them going to 22nd July EU in tandem.

    I think he needs to hit the ground running, and I think he is better prepared than Mr Starmer was; though I'm not sure how much better that is.

    I'd even suggest that a midsummer period in Parliament - as in 2024 - would be a good idea if it is possible.
    A summer schmoozing with MPs and planning big announcements at Conference.
    The new Cabinet needs some time in post so that there can be a proper relaunch at Conference.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,093

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    He'd surely love to but it's against the rules. And that's a problem for him. The 'outsider' vibe is electoral gold and it could be seriously damaged by a neat suit and tie. I'd be advising him to wear it only in the chamber. Perhaps even make a point of looking uncomfortable in it, like a loveable rogue in the dock.
    He should wear the black t-shirt and jacket and dare the Speaker to tell him to change. I feel sorry for politicians having to wear suits and ties. They would seem more human dressed more casually.
    I think formal occasions deserve a level of formality. I don't think people would feel more kindly towards them if in shorts amd a t shirt.

    But then i am perfectly comfortable in a suit, i don't understand the idea they are not.
    Which is why I own 3 morning suits.
    I always wore a decent suit when seeing private patients. Customers need to see what they are paying for.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,124
    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2068391602477834261

    Andy Burnham is plotting to trigger a “tsunami” of ministerial resignations to try to force Sir Keir Starmer out of No10 if he refuses to quit.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,952
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    He'd surely love to but it's against the rules. And that's a problem for him. The 'outsider' vibe is electoral gold and it could be seriously damaged by a neat suit and tie. I'd be advising him to wear it only in the chamber. Perhaps even make a point of looking uncomfortable in it, like a loveable rogue in the dock.
    He should wear the black t-shirt and jacket and dare the Speaker to tell him to change. I feel sorry for politicians having to wear suits and ties. They would seem more human dressed more casually.
    I think formal occasions deserve a level of formality. I don't think people would feel more kindly towards them if in shorts amd a t shirt.

    But then i am perfectly comfortable in a suit, i don't understand the idea they are not.
    Which is why I own 3 morning suits.
    I always wore a decent suit when seeing private patients. Customers need to see what they are paying for.
    I am even more extravagant when it comes to suits than my shoes.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,682
    ‘Within 10 mins, Andy had nicked it’: illustrator on his ubiquitous image of Andy Burnham

    With its light scowl and dark attire, Stanley Chow’s creation has become visual shorthand for the politician’s anti-establishment sentiment


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jun/20/stanley-chow-andy-burnham-illustration
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,403
    "Take our phones too! Let’s add adults to the social media ban
    Claer Barrett" (£)

    https://www.ft.com/
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,410
    Burnham is going to need to hit the ground running on the policy front (at least the policy announcement front - it's the vibes that matter). It needs to be a deluge not a flurry. Flood the zone. His biggest risk is being seen as a damp squib.

    Johnson and Cummings realised that and it bought them a couple of years' honeymoon. The 2010 coalition did too. And of course Trump is the master, though his pottier policies are so potty it's catching up with him.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,943

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/2068370042018767262

    POLL: ICE has been abused by the Fake News Media at levels never seen before. They are Great Patriots who work hard, and do a fantastic job in a very hostile environment. Much of this hostility is caused by the Dumocrats and the Fake News. The concept I have had for quite some time — A strong feeling that the name of these Patriots, “ICE,” should be changed to, “NICE,” in that it will totally discombobulate Crooked, Dishonest, and Unpatriotic Reporters and Journalists. For them to say, “We went to a NICE Facility today,” as opposed to “ICE” or, “NICE Agents have deported a Violent Drug Dealer,” they won’t be able to handle it, they will go totally crazy! All it means is adding an “N” (“National”) to “ICE (“Immigration and Customs Enforcement”) — A much more prestigious name. Everyone loves it, but I have been told by the legendary Tom Homan that the Agents do not love it as much as the other population. Who thinks that we should add an “N” to change the name of “ICE” to “NICE?”
     
    Thank you for your attention to this matter! President DJT

    I'm feeling generous. So I won't just award President Trump an N for himself for his incredible public service. I'll also award him a C, T and U too.
    He lacks the depth and warmth.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,943

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    He'd surely love to but it's against the rules. And that's a problem for him. The 'outsider' vibe is electoral gold and it could be seriously damaged by a neat suit and tie. I'd be advising him to wear it only in the chamber. Perhaps even make a point of looking uncomfortable in it, like a loveable rogue in the dock.
    He should wear the black t-shirt and jacket and dare the Speaker to tell him to change. I feel sorry for politicians having to wear suits and ties. They would seem more human dressed more casually.
    Or they could change the rules.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,045

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Andy Burnham is going to turn up in the HoC wearing his famous black t-shirt and black jacket.

    He'd surely love to but it's against the rules. And that's a problem for him. The 'outsider' vibe is electoral gold and it could be seriously damaged by a neat suit and tie. I'd be advising him to wear it only in the chamber. Perhaps even make a point of looking uncomfortable in it, like a loveable rogue in the dock.
    He should wear the black t-shirt and jacket and dare the Speaker to tell him to change. I feel sorry for politicians having to wear suits and ties. They would seem more human dressed more casually.
    I think formal occasions deserve a level of formality. I don't think people would feel more kindly towards them if in shorts amd a t shirt.

    But then i am perfectly comfortable in a suit, i don't understand the idea they are not.
    Which is why I own 3 morning suits.
    I always wore a decent suit when seeing private patients. Customers need to see what they are paying for.
    I am even more extravagant when it comes to suits than my shoes.
    That's because you have more money than sense?
  • Starmer resigns next week, Burnham PM by end of June?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,045

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2068391602477834261

    Andy Burnham is plotting to trigger a “tsunami” of ministerial resignations to try to force Sir Keir Starmer out of No10 if he refuses to quit.

    His equivalent of the Strait of Hormuz?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,952

    NEW THREAD

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,943
    edited 6:48PM
    ...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,984
    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    I have just worked out that my phone can be used as a radio. I'm trying to snooze through the heat whilst listening to Radio 4. It's oddly pleasant.

    Why has it taken you 15 years to work that out, lol.
    I used to read books instead of listen. It wasn't until listening to YouTube on earphones whilst working that I realised I could do both. Since I now have a tablet, there was never any need to use my phone for listening. But when my wifi went down on Makerfield election night, the need for a non-wifi-based medium became pressing, so I checked my phone and laptops to see if they had a radio. The phone did, and that's how it started.
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