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A reminder on how Andy Burnham performed in his two previous leadership campaigns

SystemSystem Posts: 13,203
edited 7:52AM in General
A reminder on how Andy Burnham performed in his two previous leadership campaigns– politicalbetting.com

To have polled a mere 8.7% in the first round in 2010 looks very bad considering he was up against the Miliband brothers, Ed Balls, and Diane Abbott, the latter was the only person he finished ahead of.

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Comments

  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,379
    No doubt that'll mean he'll want a coronation, whatever he or is team leaks to the press.

    He'll get to be a PM, but would have even less of a mandate than if he'd fought a leadership election.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,501
    edited 7:58AM
    Second
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,038
    Will Andy crash and Burnham?

    #TSEpuns
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,512
    It does look bad, but maybe the people it looks bad for are the present alternative candidates to Mr Burnham.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,200
    Doubt they need to be that great. Winning 55% of the vote in an area Reform won every single council seat speaks for itself tbh.
    This phase is about as easy as it gets in politics being up against a very unpopular PM (Starmer) and the only man who would lose to him in an internal Lab contest (Streeting)
    The only way he could not make it happen is by bottling actually challenging somehow which I think looks unlikely...
    Once he is in No 10, that is much tougher than this bit
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,167
    Burnham is now clearly the leftwing candidate in any Labour leadership election now against Starmer and New Labour Streeting. Whereas he wasn’t in 2015 with Corbyn taking that role nor in 2010 when Ed Miliband and Abbott were the leftist candidates and he wasn’t in still relatively New Labour.

    Burnham might take some encouragement from Ronald Reagan who was beaten by Nixon in the 1968 Republican primaries and narrowly by Ford in the 1976 Republican primaries. As we all remember though Reagan won the 1980 Republican primaries and then the 1980 and 1984 presidential elections
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,167
    edited 8:02AM
    Burnham is now clearly the leftwing candidate in any Labour leadership election against Starmer and New Labour Streeting. Whereas he wasn’t in 2015 with Corbyn taking that role nor in 2010 when Ed Miliband and Abbott were the leftist candidates and he was still relatively New Labour.

    Burnham might take some encouragement from Ronald Reagan who was beaten by Nixon in the 1968 Republican primaries and narrowly by Ford in the 1976 Republican primaries. As we all remember though Reagan won the 1980 Republican primaries and then the 1980 and 1984 presidential elections. Biden also ran for the Democrats nomination in 1988 and 2008 losing to Dukakis and Obama before finally winning in 2020 the nomination and presidential election
  • eekeek Posts: 34,096
    edited 7:59AM
    Fishing said:

    No doubt that'll mean he'll want a coronation, whatever he or is team leaks to the press.

    He'll get to be a PM, but would have even less of a mandate than if he'd fought a leadership election.

    If you have a leadership election the membership and unions get a (big) say and the most left wing candidate will win by promising a set of policies to win their votes

    And to see how that plays out go and look at Liz Truss

    PMs should be elected by MPs - if MPs think Andy Burnham is that best option we should leave them to it
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,660
    He lost to the Jezaster.

    Nuff said.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,942
    FPT

    The header should read "The Cabinet is Revolting".

    Organisations are singular.

    It is a group of people, so 'are revolting' is correct.

    One of humanity's great wordsmiths agrees with me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk47saogI8o
  • eekeek Posts: 34,096
    ydoethur said:

    He lost to the Jezaster.

    Nuff said.

    He lost to the Jezaster because Labour was still navel gazing
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,660

    FPT

    The header should read "The Cabinet is Revolting".

    Organisations are singular.

    It is a group of people, so 'are revolting' is correct.

    One of humanity's great wordsmiths agrees with me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk47saogI8o
    And this organisation, as noted before, is anything but singular.

    When was the last time we had a vaguely competent Cabinet?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,139
    edited 8:04AM
    I am not sure any of this counts as a hill of beans. He has subsequently enjoyed a reasonable reputation as Manchester Mayor.

    I consider him to be a conniving Johnsonesque shite, but he's only up against Starmer who can sell a six nil win as a crushing defeat.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,660
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    He lost to the Jezaster.

    Nuff said.

    He lost to the Jezaster because Labour was still navel gazing
    Well, it's a good job they're not doing that any more. Like, say, grabbing a random person with at best an indifferent track record in national electoral politics and government and saying he might turn things round.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,715
    DougSeal said:

    As someone mentioned yesterday, there are a large number of people on here praising the improvement shown by the Leader of the Opposition in the last year. 9 years out of Westminster and all that has gone on since 2017 will have changed Burnham also. For better or worse.

    One slightly interesting fear from some on the Labour side, is that he will just turn back into the MP he used to be.

    They need until about 2034 - ten years in power - imo, to see if they can make it work.

    By which token, his theme song needs to be "When I'm 64."
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,440
    edited 8:07AM
    Looking at the graph, Burnham is more than doubling his vote share every five years, so he should have no problem by now...
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,512
    I see the EU has voted to deport illegal migrants. Be interesting to see whether that will affect polling on rejoining.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,033
    Fishing said:

    No doubt that'll mean he'll want a coronation, whatever he or is team leaks to the press.

    He'll get to be a PM, but would have even less of a mandate than if he'd fought a leadership election.

    The mandate would be precisely the same and matter very little. I don't buy for a second that internal or external perception or acceptance of political plans at a later date would alter as someone goes 'but at least there was a leadership contest so he has a mandate'.

    If he does alright no one will care. If he does badly the lack of a contest will just provide a figleaf for internal opponents to claim they could have spotted the pitfalls and members to pretend they mighr not have voted him in.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,167
    edited 8:08AM
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    He lost to the Jezaster.

    Nuff said.

    He lost to the Jezaster because Labour was still navel gazing
    If they pick tax and spend Burnham over more centrist Starmer and New Labour Streeting, ideologically Labour will be back to navel gazing but with a more telegenic leader not quite as hard left as Corbyn yet one who tells still Labour members what they want to hear.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,062
    Here's a curious thing.

    Just listening to the 9am news on BBC London. Proper bulletin, none of your "up to date in fifteen seconds" nonsense.

    Mentions of the Prime Minister being about to be deposed by his party? Not a sausage.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,530
    Not convinced. In 2010 Burnham was up against two people either of whom could have been the outstanding leader they have not had, Balls and Miliband D. No-one else should have got any votes at all.

    2015 was another story. None of the candidates were the right combination of willing, able, sane, grown up, experienced enough with proven top leadership capacity. It was, looking back, a disastrous exercise in bonkersness whose malign legacy is still with us.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,651
    Andy Burnham is a Cambridge man, and so is Wes Streeting, and indeed Diane Abbott. So one way or another...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,660
    edited 8:13AM
    This train crash is incomprehensible as well as tragic. That should just not have happened.

    It must be some kind of weird signalling error, but it's hard to see what it could have been.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,942
    Taking back control...

    Jacinda Ardern: ‘New Zealand will become a republic in my lifetime’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/australasia/article/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-interview-kkppf03f9
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,660

    Andy Burnham is a Cambridge man, and so is Wes Streeting, and indeed Diane Abbott. So one way or another...

    Diane Abbott is not a Cambridge man. Judges have ruled that is not possible.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,167
    One Reform MP sums up the Makerfield result, ‘we were either too racist or not racist enough’

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/19/reform-uk-weaknesses-makerfield-nigel-farage-labour
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,600
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    He lost to the Jezaster.

    Nuff said.

    He lost to the Jezaster because Labour was still navel gazing
    He lost because he ran a shite campaign, and offered nothing to enthuse the membership.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,530

    Here's a curious thing.

    Just listening to the 9am news on BBC London. Proper bulletin, none of your "up to date in fifteen seconds" nonsense.

    Mentions of the Prime Minister being about to be deposed by his party? Not a sausage.

    Plenty of it on R4 Today 7am-9am just now.

    Of course 'News' proper is what has happened, not what is going to happen, so neither the deposition nor Brazil beating Scotland is, at this moment 'News'. And in general 'News' proper isn't what someone has said, it is what has occurred.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,033
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    The header should read "The Cabinet is Revolting".

    Organisations are singular.

    It is a group of people, so 'are revolting' is correct.

    One of humanity's great wordsmiths agrees with me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk47saogI8o
    And this organisation, as noted before, is anything but singular.

    When was the last time we had a vaguely competent Cabinet?
    I don't know how to judge the overall competence of ministers.

    There's poor media performance of course, but they might be strong elsewhere. Sometimes the decisions taken might indicate, but not always if we don't hear about what alternatives there were, or we dislike the choice but it was executed effectively. Sluggish delivery might be a sign, but when is it their fault for not wrangling Whitehall and when is it reasonable? Is the failure the fault of the Treasury, the classic ruiner, or should a competent minister deliver despite that?

    We mostly go by vibes.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,139
    edited 8:16AM
    ydoethur said:

    Andy Burnham is a Cambridge man, and so is Wes Streeting, and indeed Diane Abbott. So one way or another...

    Diane Abbott is not a Cambridge man. Judges have ruled that is not possible.
    Crap A levels?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,651
    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    No doubt that'll mean he'll want a coronation, whatever he or is team leaks to the press.

    He'll get to be a PM, but would have even less of a mandate than if he'd fought a leadership election.

    The mandate would be precisely the same and matter very little. I don't buy for a second that internal or external perception or acceptance of political plans at a later date would alter as someone goes 'but at least there was a leadership contest so he has a mandate'.

    If he does alright no one will care. If he does badly the lack of a contest will just provide a figleaf for internal opponents to claim they could have spotted the pitfalls and members to pretend they mighr not have voted him in.
    The last Prime Minister to bang on about how a party election provided a mandate was Liz Truss. Labour has a mandate; Burnham personally should not claim one on the basis of 25,000 Mancs.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,660
    edited 8:17AM
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    The header should read "The Cabinet is Revolting".

    Organisations are singular.

    It is a group of people, so 'are revolting' is correct.

    One of humanity's great wordsmiths agrees with me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk47saogI8o
    And this organisation, as noted before, is anything but singular.

    When was the last time we had a vaguely competent Cabinet?
    I don't know how to judge the overall competence of ministers.

    There's poor media performance of course, but they might be strong elsewhere. Sometimes the decisions taken might indicate, but not always if we don't hear about what alternatives there were, or we dislike the choice but it was executed effectively. Sluggish delivery might be a sign, but when is it their fault for not wrangling Whitehall and when is it reasonable? Is the failure the fault of the Treasury, the classic ruiner, or should a competent minister deliver despite that?

    We mostly go by vibes.
    Bridget Phillipson is Michael Gove with extra smugness and much worse manners.

    Ed Miliband has several of the right ideas although he is a bit hit and miss on others.

    Mahmood is just a muppet.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,660



    ydoethur said:

    Andy Burnham is a Cambridge man, and so is Wes Streeting, and indeed Diane Abbott. So one way or another...

    Diane Abbott is not a Cambridge man. Judges have ruled that is not possible.
    Crap A levels?
    I'm sure many judges do, given how silly many of them are.

    But I was thinking more that she's a woman...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,062
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    He lost to the Jezaster.

    Nuff said.

    He lost to the Jezaster because Labour was still navel gazing
    If they pick tax and spend Burnham over more centrist Starmer and New Labour Streeting, ideologically Labour will be back to navel gazing but with a more telegenic leader not quite as hard left as Corbyn yet one who tells still Labour members what they want to hear.
    Harsh on Burnham- he doesn't just tell Labour members what they want to hear, he tells everyone what they want to hear. Just like another big city Mayor who returned to Westminster.

    It's a brilliant technique to get elected, and it doesn't matter if you're elected to a role that has few tradeoffs to manage. Prime Minister isn't one of those roles- certainly not in a time without easy abundant economic growth.

    Not so much "will the real Andy Burnham please stand up?" as "is there a real Andy Burnham to stand up?" Maybe it will be fine, but I'm not optimistic.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,139

    Here's a curious thing.

    Just listening to the 9am news on BBC London. Proper bulletin, none of your "up to date in fifteen seconds" nonsense.

    Mentions of the Prime Minister being about to be deposed by his party? Not a sausage.

    A hostage to fortune?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,033

    Taking back control...

    Jacinda Ardern: ‘New Zealand will become a republic in my lifetime’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/australasia/article/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-interview-kkppf03f9

    Yes, probably they will. More surprising is places like Jamaica which seem to have had political unanimity on the question for decades but still haven't gotten round to it.

    It doesn't take long to do even where referendums are required so not sure what the hold up is.

    Canada will be last, due to generally being unconcerned.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,139
    ydoethur said:



    ydoethur said:

    Andy Burnham is a Cambridge man, and so is Wes Streeting, and indeed Diane Abbott. So one way or another...

    Diane Abbott is not a Cambridge man. Judges have ruled that is not possible.
    Crap A levels?
    I'm sure many judges do, given how silly many of them are.

    But I was thinking more that she's a woman...
    Perhaps I should have added a crying with laughter emoji.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,600
    edited 8:24AM
    Members of the cabinet are...

    The cabinet is...

    SR style guide, super-pedantic edition.


    (I spend too much time at work making this correction in my colleagues' reports.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,660

    ydoethur said:



    ydoethur said:

    Andy Burnham is a Cambridge man, and so is Wes Streeting, and indeed Diane Abbott. So one way or another...

    Diane Abbott is not a Cambridge man. Judges have ruled that is not possible.
    Crap A levels?
    I'm sure many judges do, given how silly many of them are.

    But I was thinking more that she's a woman...
    Perhaps I should have added a crying with laughter emoji.
    :facepalm:
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,942
    edited 8:26AM
    One thing I will say in Andy Burnham's favour.

    Tuesday is the tenth anniversary of the United Kingdom voting to put economic sanctions on itself and I had planned to do several threads on Brexit but now I'll be doing lots of threads on Starmer being ousted/the Labour leadership contest instead.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,157

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    No doubt that'll mean he'll want a coronation, whatever he or is team leaks to the press.

    He'll get to be a PM, but would have even less of a mandate than if he'd fought a leadership election.

    The mandate would be precisely the same and matter very little. I don't buy for a second that internal or external perception or acceptance of political plans at a later date would alter as someone goes 'but at least there was a leadership contest so he has a mandate'.

    If he does alright no one will care. If he does badly the lack of a contest will just provide a figleaf for internal opponents to claim they could have spotted the pitfalls and members to pretend they mighr not have voted him in.
    The last Prime Minister to bang on about how a party election provided a mandate was Liz Truss. Labour has a mandate; Burnham personally should not claim one on the basis of 25,000 Mancs.
    One Manc is worth more than 25,000 North Londoners.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,660

    One thing I will say in Andy Burnham's favour.

    Tuesday is the tenth anniversary of the United Kingdom voting to put economic sanctions on itself and I had planned to do several threads on Brexit but now I'll be doing lots of threads on Starmer being ousted/the Labour leadership contest.

    It's conducted under some weird and not very effective system, isn't it?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,600

    One thing I will say in Andy Burnham's favour.

    Tuesday is the tenth anniversary of the United Kingdom voting to put economic sanctions on itself and I had planned to do several threads on Brexit but now I'll be doing lots of threads on Starmer being ousted/the Labour leadership contest instead.

    Hopefully you will highlight that if it goes to a membership ballot, we'll be using AV.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,139
    I have just been reading several articles in the Telegraph and blimey, this Burnham by election win has started a wildfire which has consumed the nation. Are we all dead and have gone to Heaven? I suppose not because Kemi would be Prime Minister of Heaven.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,405

    One thing I will say in Andy Burnham's favour.

    Tuesday is the tenth anniversary of the United Kingdom voting to put economic sanctions on itself and I had planned to do several threads on Brexit but now I'll be doing lots of threads on Starmer being ousted/the Labour leadership contest instead.

    For this relief much thanks.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,660

    One thing I will say in Andy Burnham's favour.

    Tuesday is the tenth anniversary of the United Kingdom voting to put economic sanctions on itself and I had planned to do several threads on Brexit but now I'll be doing lots of threads on Starmer being ousted/the Labour leadership contest instead.

    For this relief much thanks.
    Birnam's in a different play.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,942
    edited 8:29AM
    ydoethur said:

    One thing I will say in Andy Burnham's favour.

    Tuesday is the tenth anniversary of the United Kingdom voting to put economic sanctions on itself and I had planned to do several threads on Brexit but now I'll be doing lots of threads on Starmer being ousted/the Labour leadership contest.

    It's conducted under some weird and not very effective system, isn't it?
    No.

    I am doing a thread on PM Andy Burnham is the James Rew of politics.

    Lots of hype but didn't deliver on the big stage.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,097
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    The header should read "The Cabinet is Revolting".

    Organisations are singular.

    It is a group of people, so 'are revolting' is correct.

    One of humanity's great wordsmiths agrees with me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk47saogI8o
    And this organisation, as noted before, is anything but singular.

    When was the last time we had a vaguely competent Cabinet?
    Quite.
    Considering their predecessors, this cabinet isn't even singularly useless.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,660

    ydoethur said:

    One thing I will say in Andy Burnham's favour.

    Tuesday is the tenth anniversary of the United Kingdom voting to put economic sanctions on itself and I had planned to do several threads on Brexit but now I'll be doing lots of threads on Starmer being ousted/the Labour leadership contest.

    It's conducted under some weird and not very effective system, isn't it?
    No.

    I am doing a thread on PM Andy Burnham is the James Rew of politics.

    Lots of hype but didn't deliver on the big stage.
    I think there are going to have to be further drops over this.

    Starting with Key.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,942

    One thing I will say in Andy Burnham's favour.

    Tuesday is the tenth anniversary of the United Kingdom voting to put economic sanctions on itself and I had planned to do several threads on Brexit but now I'll be doing lots of threads on Starmer being ousted/the Labour leadership contest instead.

    Hopefully you will highlight that if it goes to a membership ballot, we'll be using AV.
    I have two AV threads lined up for the next few days.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,412
    ydoethur said:

    This train crash is incomprehensible as well as tragic. That should just not have happened.

    It must be some kind of weird signalling error, but it's hard to see what it could have been.

    The speed question is a bit unnerving - apparently (rumour) it was only doing about 10mph, which is roughly equivalent to falling flat on your face from standing. Most people would come out of that sort of collision with minor injuries, but across hundreds of passengers you’ll have a few concussions, broken arms etc etc. and the cab is still flattened, very sadly.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,139

    One thing I will say in Andy Burnham's favour.

    Tuesday is the tenth anniversary of the United Kingdom voting to put economic sanctions on itself and I had planned to do several threads on Brexit but now I'll be doing lots of threads on Starmer being ousted/the Labour leadership contest instead.

    Didn't we recently have a very well written series of guest headers explaining how well Brexit has gone? So I believe therefore, Brexit has probably been more than covered.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,530
    kle4 said:

    Taking back control...

    Jacinda Ardern: ‘New Zealand will become a republic in my lifetime’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/australasia/article/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-interview-kkppf03f9

    Yes, probably they will. More surprising is places like Jamaica which seem to have had political unanimity on the question for decades but still haven't gotten round to it.

    It doesn't take long to do even where referendums are required so not sure what the hold up is.

    Canada will be last, due to generally being unconcerned.
    Some things just hang around for ever. Trollope's political novels (c 1860s) have lots of references to two issues: decimalisation of the currency and disestablishment of the Church of England. The first, younger readers will be interested to learn, happened in 1971, (a tube of Smarties went from 7d to 3p) and the second has never happened and isn't much on anyone's agenda.

    Reason for hanging on to our monarchy in abroadland? The political capital expended. Even if 10% of the population are royalists, that can turn elections. So you generally leave it to the next lot. Eg Corbyn publicly declared he had no intention of abolishing the monarchy.

  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,846
    Surely the only topic we should be discussing this morning is red cards for mouth covering?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,696
    kle4 said:

    Taking back control...

    Jacinda Ardern: ‘New Zealand will become a republic in my lifetime’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/australasia/article/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-interview-kkppf03f9

    Yes, probably they will. More surprising is places like Jamaica which seem to have had political unanimity on the question for decades but still haven't gotten round to it.

    It doesn't take long to do even where referendums are required so not sure what the hold up is.

    Canada will be last, due to generally being unconcerned.
    I don't think the monarchist bootlickers will be too arsed about Jamaica (too not white) or New Zealand (too unimportant). It's Australia and/or Canada that will sting.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,167
    edited 8:36AM
    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Taking back control...

    Jacinda Ardern: ‘New Zealand will become a republic in my lifetime’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/australasia/article/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-interview-kkppf03f9

    Yes, probably they will. More surprising is places like Jamaica which seem to have had political unanimity on the question for decades but still haven't gotten round to it.

    It doesn't take long to do even where referendums are required so not sure what the hold up is.

    Canada will be last, due to generally being unconcerned.
    Some things just hang around for ever. Trollope's political novels (c 1860s) have lots of references to two issues: decimalisation of the currency and disestablishment of the Church of England. The first, younger readers will be interested to learn, happened in 1971, (a tube of Smarties went from 7d to 3p) and the second has never happened and isn't much on anyone's agenda.

    Reason for hanging on to our monarchy in abroadland? The political capital expended. Even if 10% of the population are royalists, that can turn elections. So you generally leave it to the next lot. Eg Corbyn publicly declared he had no intention of abolishing the monarchy.

    Corbyn was privately a republican but sensible enough not to put it in his manifestos. Only 24% for a republic on the latest Yougov poll this year which is 8% less than even the 32% Corbyn Labour got in 2019 when it lost to Boris and the Conservatives by a landslide

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54571-royal-family-favourability-trackers-april-2026
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,660
    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:

    Taking back control...

    Jacinda Ardern: ‘New Zealand will become a republic in my lifetime’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/australasia/article/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-interview-kkppf03f9

    Yes, probably they will. More surprising is places like Jamaica which seem to have had political unanimity on the question for decades but still haven't gotten round to it.

    It doesn't take long to do even where referendums are required so not sure what the hold up is.

    Canada will be last, due to generally being unconcerned.
    I don't think the monarchist bootlickers will be too arsed about Jamaica (too not white) or New Zealand (too unimportant). It's Australia and/or Canada that will sting.
    Australia is the weird one because they've never quite got round to it despite that referendum (which was basically an act of sabotage by John Howard).

    I sometimes wonder if memories of the Dismissal were still a bit raw.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,514
    algarkirk said:

    Here's a curious thing.

    Just listening to the 9am news on BBC London. Proper bulletin, none of your "up to date in fifteen seconds" nonsense.

    Mentions of the Prime Minister being about to be deposed by his party? Not a sausage.

    Plenty of it on R4 Today 7am-9am just now.

    Of course 'News' proper is what has happened, not what is going to happen, so neither the deposition nor Brazil beating Scotland is, at this moment 'News'. And in general 'News' proper isn't what someone has said, it is what has occurred.

    There is also rather a lot of proper news at the moment, so there isn't the need to fill a fixed-length news bulletin with a hypothetical.

    A pipe bomb was discovered in Bandon earlier in the week, and that didn't made the national broadcast news here, only being covered by the local newspaper, and later picked up by one national newspaper, to give an example.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,139
    ydoethur said:

    One thing I will say in Andy Burnham's favour.

    Tuesday is the tenth anniversary of the United Kingdom voting to put economic sanctions on itself and I had planned to do several threads on Brexit but now I'll be doing lots of threads on Starmer being ousted/the Labour leadership contest.

    It's conducted under some weird and not very effective system, isn't it?
    A trouser leg rolled up the ankle, an open shirt with breast exposed and a noose around the neck. Or so I have heard.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,167
    edited 8:42AM

    Taking back control...

    Jacinda Ardern: ‘New Zealand will become a republic in my lifetime’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/australasia/article/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-interview-kkppf03f9

    So she says but she never pushed it as PM for a reason nor are the current NZ PM or LOTO

    Plenty of New Zealand polls for keeping a constitutional monarch over a politician head of state too

    https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/10/22/nz-citizens-keen-to-stay-wedded-to-the-monarchy/
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,412
    There was also an extremely nasty incident in Edinburgh last night, involving someone allegedly mowing down delivery cyclists and running about with a big knife.

    Baffled as to why it’s not got into the news yet (other than our local press). I suspect there would be a different reaction if the ethnicities were reversed, and I’ll be keeping a close eye on how the Crown Office approach it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,125

    Surely the only topic we should be discussing this morning is red cards for mouth covering?

    Bloody hell, I didn't know TSE could see I was doing that whilst typing away!
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,298
    ydoethur said:

    This train crash is incomprehensible as well as tragic. That should just not have happened.

    It must be some kind of weird signalling error, but it's hard to see what it could have been.

    Informed sources are suggesting a SPAD, potentially a result of the 360 driver expecting the signals to go a particular way based on prior behaviour, and the 810 unexpectedly stopping in the next section confounding that.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,696
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:

    Taking back control...

    Jacinda Ardern: ‘New Zealand will become a republic in my lifetime’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/australasia/article/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-interview-kkppf03f9

    Yes, probably they will. More surprising is places like Jamaica which seem to have had political unanimity on the question for decades but still haven't gotten round to it.

    It doesn't take long to do even where referendums are required so not sure what the hold up is.

    Canada will be last, due to generally being unconcerned.
    I don't think the monarchist bootlickers will be too arsed about Jamaica (too not white) or New Zealand (too unimportant). It's Australia and/or Canada that will sting.
    Australia is the weird one because they've never quite got round to it despite that referendum (which was basically an act of sabotage by John Howard).

    I sometimes wonder if memories of the Dismissal were still a bit raw.
    I read somewhere (can't remember where, maybe New Republic having one of their occasional spasms where they become interested in matters outside the USA) that the individual states have legislative links to the British monarchy. Therefore the most likely route to an Australian republic will be a UDI by a single state (Victoria?) severing their links and that will cause the dam to break.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,139
    edited 8:47AM
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:



    ydoethur said:

    Andy Burnham is a Cambridge man, and so is Wes Streeting, and indeed Diane Abbott. So one way or another...

    Diane Abbott is not a Cambridge man. Judges have ruled that is not possible.
    Crap A levels?
    I'm sure many judges do, given how silly many of them are.

    But I was thinking more that she's a woman...
    Perhaps I should have added a crying with laughter emoji.
    :facepalm:
    I am thinking of jacking this PB comedy caper in. It someone posts "Kemi Badenoch is the greatest LOTO since Margaret Thatcher" they get thirty likes. I come up with biting satire and not a single like. Is their comedy really so much better?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,514

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    He lost to the Jezaster.

    Nuff said.

    He lost to the Jezaster because Labour was still navel gazing
    If they pick tax and spend Burnham over more centrist Starmer and New Labour Streeting, ideologically Labour will be back to navel gazing but with a more telegenic leader not quite as hard left as Corbyn yet one who tells still Labour members what they want to hear.
    Harsh on Burnham- he doesn't just tell Labour members what they want to hear, he tells everyone what they want to hear. Just like another big city Mayor who returned to Westminster.

    It's a brilliant technique to get elected, and it doesn't matter if you're elected to a role that has few tradeoffs to manage. Prime Minister isn't one of those roles- certainly not in a time without easy abundant economic growth.

    Not so much "will the real Andy Burnham please stand up?" as "is there a real Andy Burnham to stand up?" Maybe it will be fine, but I'm not optimistic.
    I think I'm by nature optimistic - there are ways in which it could go right, just as I thought Johnson's record in London showed there was a chance he could make a success of being PM.

    I'm not confident in the chances of success.

    Eight now though I will take a 5% chance of success with Burnham over a zero percent chance with the incumbent albatross.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,959
    HYUFD said:

    Burnham is now clearly the leftwing candidate in any Labour leadership election now against Starmer and New Labour Streeting. Whereas he wasn’t in 2015 with Corbyn taking that role nor in 2010 when Ed Miliband and Abbott were the leftist candidates and he wasn’t in still relatively New Labour.

    Burnham might take some encouragement from Ronald Reagan who was beaten by Nixon in the 1968 Republican primaries and narrowly by Ford in the 1976 Republican primaries. As we all remember though Reagan won the 1980 Republican primaries and then the 1980 and 1984 presidential elections

    An apt comparison. Reagan acquired the profile and chops required to win the highest national office by way of the California governorship. Burnham has done exactly this via the Greater Manchester mayoralty.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,676
    Whitehouse responds to Telegraph story that Trump's inner circle have discussed ditching the iran peace deal as soon as the mid-terms are out of the way.

    "The White House denied the claims, insisting Mr Trump “always operates in good faith and honours his commitments”."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2026/06/20/trump-considering-tearing-up-iran-deal-midterms/
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,140
    HYUFD said:

    Taking back control...

    Jacinda Ardern: ‘New Zealand will become a republic in my lifetime’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/australasia/article/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-interview-kkppf03f9

    So she says but she never pushed it as PM for a reason nor are the current NZ PM or LOTO

    Plenty of New Zealand polls for keeping a constitutional monarch over a politician head of state too

    https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/10/22/nz-citizens-keen-to-stay-wedded-to-the-monarchy/
    She's probably predicting rather than proposing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,405
    Reflecting on the Makerfield byelection result, I think (as I said) that Burnham was the favourite going in, and never really looked troubled.

    Reform would always have struggled, but I think could have performed better if they had developed an effective counternarrative against Burnham, beyond their charge that he was using Makerfield as a stepping stone. That was clearly believed by a lot of people, but it couldn't really go anywhere. I felt where Burnham was weakest was at the point of WASPI - it was an embarrassing f U-turn in real time. But for whatever reason it didn't seem that this was capitalised on.

    They also had a problem with the plumber, who I don't think was a terrible candidate, but was undoubtedly damaged, particularly by the Vorderman letter to the women of Makerfield. The letter was an utterly cynical piece of confected outrage, and I think in response I would have issued an utterly cynical confected apology, and gone the 'bad boy forgiven' route. I also might have been tempted to put Kenyon up for an interrogation with someone like Kuensberg so the public could see him sweat it out. High risk, but I think many women might have seen it and ended up with some sneaking sympathy. His line would have been - 'sorry, regret my comments, however do we want a society where the only people who are allowed to hold office are people who have never said anything regrettable on social media?'.

    Even with all that, I think Reform's best result would have been to be 'robbed' by Restore. That would have fit their narrative nicely. Sadly they just missed out.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,033

    Whitehouse responds to Telegraph story that Trump's inner circle have discussed ditching the iran peace deal as soon as the mid-terms are out of the way.

    "The White House denied the claims, insisting Mr Trump “always operates in good faith and honours his commitments”."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2026/06/20/trump-considering-tearing-up-iran-deal-midterms/

    Now that is good comedy.
  • JSpringJSpring Posts: 119
    Ken Clarke's record across three leadership elections was hardly any better.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,512
    HYUFD said:

    One Reform MP sums up the Makerfield result, ‘we were either too racist or not racist enough’

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/19/reform-uk-weaknesses-makerfield-nigel-farage-labour

    Or the question being asked was not about racism but about who should be PM.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,139
    JSpring said:

    Ken Clarke's record across three leadership elections was hardly any better.

    And he never became PM either.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,412

    One thing I will say in Andy Burnham's favour.

    Tuesday is the tenth anniversary of the United Kingdom voting to put economic sanctions on itself and I had planned to do several threads on Brexit but now I'll be doing lots of threads on Starmer being ousted/the Labour leadership contest instead.

    Didn't we recently have a very well written series of guest headers explaining how well Brexit has gone? So I believe therefore, Brexit has probably been more than covered.
    Those headers probably need to be countered BBC style with something that represents the wide consensus across economists that it hasn’t, actually, been a brilliant success.

    It’s moot though for a betting site. Public opinion continues to move firmly against it, which is what matters in this context. The contrast with SINDY is really interesting, where we are in stasis.
  • AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    One Reform MP sums up the Makerfield result, ‘we were either too racist or not racist enough’

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/19/reform-uk-weaknesses-makerfield-nigel-farage-labour

    Or the question being asked was not about racism but about who should be PM.
    Reform needs to stop choosing terrible candidates.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,405
    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    One Reform MP sums up the Makerfield result, ‘we were either too racist or not racist enough’

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/19/reform-uk-weaknesses-makerfield-nigel-farage-labour

    Or the question being asked was not about racism but about who should be PM.
    Yes. I cannot really see that Reform have done especially badly, given that their entire schtick in recent months has been 'Get Starmer Out', but every voter in the by-election knew that the quickest way to do that was to elect Burnham.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,514
    Eabhal said:

    There was also an extremely nasty incident in Edinburgh last night, involving someone allegedly mowing down delivery cyclists and running about with a big knife.

    Baffled as to why it’s not got into the news yet (other than our local press). I suspect there would be a different reaction if the ethnicities were reversed, and I’ll be keeping a close eye on how the Crown Office approach it.

    Looks like the Bandon pipe bomb was far right terror too. The house the pipe bomb was found outside of was is said to be that of a couple involved in developing accommodation for asylum seekers.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,140
    edited 9:01AM
    Starmer has three important international Summit meetings coming up.
    1. NATO on 8th July in Ankara
    2. EU on 22nd July in Brussels
    3. G20 on 15th Dec in Miami.
    I suspect that Burnham will agree to Starmer remaining PM to attend the first two, but will want to introduce himself on the world stage at the G20 in December.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,425
    Eabhal said:

    One thing I will say in Andy Burnham's favour.

    Tuesday is the tenth anniversary of the United Kingdom voting to put economic sanctions on itself and I had planned to do several threads on Brexit but now I'll be doing lots of threads on Starmer being ousted/the Labour leadership contest instead.

    Didn't we recently have a very well written series of guest headers explaining how well Brexit has gone? So I believe therefore, Brexit has probably been more than covered.
    Those headers probably need to be countered BBC style with something that represents the wide consensus across economists that it hasn’t, actually, been a brilliant success.

    It’s moot though for a betting site. Public opinion continues to move firmly against it, which is what matters in this context. The contrast with SINDY is really interesting, where we are in stasis.
    I don’t recall that as the thrust of the argument. It was more that those who claimed it was a disaster were overstating their case, and used data to show this. If you want to show the opposite I’d love to read it.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,512

    ydoethur said:

    This train crash is incomprehensible as well as tragic. That should just not have happened.

    It must be some kind of weird signalling error, but it's hard to see what it could have been.

    Informed sources are suggesting a SPAD, potentially a result of the 360 driver expecting the signals to go a particular way based on prior behaviour, and the 810 unexpectedly stopping in the next section confounding that.
    And apparently the driver died, so .....
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,412
    edited 9:04AM

    Reflecting on the Makerfield byelection result, I think (as I said) that Burnham was the favourite going in, and never really looked troubled.

    Reform would always have struggled, but I think could have performed better if they had developed an effective counternarrative against Burnham, beyond their charge that he was using Makerfield as a stepping stone. That was clearly believed by a lot of people, but it couldn't really go anywhere. I felt where Burnham was weakest was at the point of WASPI - it was an embarrassing f U-turn in real time. But for whatever reason it didn't seem that this was capitalised on.

    They also had a problem with the plumber, who I don't think was a terrible candidate, but was undoubtedly damaged, particularly by the Vorderman letter to the women of Makerfield. The letter was an utterly cynical piece of confected outrage, and I think in response I would have issued an utterly cynical confected apology, and gone the 'bad boy forgiven' route. I also might have been tempted to put Kenyon up for an interrogation with someone like Kuensberg so the public could see him sweat it out. High risk, but I think many women might have seen it and ended up with some sneaking sympathy. His line would have been - 'sorry, regret my comments, however do we want a society where the only people who are allowed to hold office are people who have never said anything regrettable on social media?'.

    Even with all that, I think Reform's best result would have been to be 'robbed' by Restore. That would have fit their narrative nicely. Sadly they just missed out.

    On your last point - I appreciate the short term benefit of that (consolidate the hard-right vote) - but isn’t that an extremely limited strategy?

    Having a big argument with Lowe about split votes and precisely how many pogroms to conduct isn’t going to put Farage into No 10. At least this time they aren’t blaming “family voting”, which suggests they’ve learnt the lesson from last time.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,530
    HYUFD said:

    Burnham is now clearly the leftwing candidate in any Labour leadership election against Starmer and New Labour Streeting. Whereas he wasn’t in 2015 with Corbyn taking that role nor in 2010 when Ed Miliband and Abbott were the leftist candidates and he was still relatively New Labour.

    Burnham might take some encouragement from Ronald Reagan who was beaten by Nixon in the 1968 Republican primaries and narrowly by Ford in the 1976 Republican primaries. As we all remember though Reagan won the 1980 Republican primaries and then the 1980 and 1984 presidential elections. Biden also ran for the Democrats nomination in 1988 and 2008 losing to Dukakis and Obama before finally winning in 2020 the nomination and presidential election

    In this particular context what would 'leftwing' mean? Does it mean significantly more than having a particular rhetoric about how you talk politics? How does it relate policy and practicewise to: private enterprise, debt to GDP ratios, deficit, benefits, growth, NATO, overall tax levels, interest rates, migration, student loans, and so on? Unless it means different from Starmer, Tories, LDs, etc in ways that can be articulated, how are we to evaluate?

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,405
    On topic, if Labour go through all this, and still somehow keep Starmer, they are even stupider than they look. It just won't happen.
  • https://x.com/steveakehurst/status/2067886648424116671

    What attracted voters to Burnham? Among voters overall, his strongest card was the chance to replace Starmer.

    But among his coalition, strikingly, it was his *platform on taking back control of public essentials*.

    Really interesting thread here but overall Brexit was irrelevant as all parties seemed to work out pretty quickly (except Matt Goodwin).

    Burnham can plausibly get 33% of the vote again in a GE.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,514

    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    One Reform MP sums up the Makerfield result, ‘we were either too racist or not racist enough’

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/19/reform-uk-weaknesses-makerfield-nigel-farage-labour

    Or the question being asked was not about racism but about who should be PM.
    Yes. I cannot really see that Reform have done especially badly, given that their entire schtick in recent months has been 'Get Starmer Out', but every voter in the by-election knew that the quickest way to do that was to elect Burnham.
    What do you think a good result for Reform would be in the Greater Manchester Mayoral election? What would be lacklustre?

    It's easy for people to rationalise poor results after the event, so it might be more instructive to set a yardstick beforehand.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,125
    Barnesian said:

    Starmer has three important international Summit meetings coming up.

    1. NATO on 8th July in Ankara
    2. EU on 22nd July in Brussels
    3. G20 on 15th Dec in Miami.
    I suspect that Burnham will agree to Starmer remaining PM to attend the first two, but will want to introduce himself on the world stage at the G20 in December.
    Well that would be very annoying. Some of us still have positions on Starmer to go in 2027!
  • Eabhal said:

    Reflecting on the Makerfield byelection result, I think (as I said) that Burnham was the favourite going in, and never really looked troubled.

    Reform would always have struggled, but I think could have performed better if they had developed an effective counternarrative against Burnham, beyond their charge that he was using Makerfield as a stepping stone. That was clearly believed by a lot of people, but it couldn't really go anywhere. I felt where Burnham was weakest was at the point of WASPI - it was an embarrassing f U-turn in real time. But for whatever reason it didn't seem that this was capitalised on.

    They also had a problem with the plumber, who I don't think was a terrible candidate, but was undoubtedly damaged, particularly by the Vorderman letter to the women of Makerfield. The letter was an utterly cynical piece of confected outrage, and I think in response I would have issued an utterly cynical confected apology, and gone the 'bad boy forgiven' route. I also might have been tempted to put Kenyon up for an interrogation with someone like Kuensberg so the public could see him sweat it out. High risk, but I think many women might have seen it and ended up with some sneaking sympathy. His line would have been - 'sorry, regret my comments, however do we want a society where the only people who are allowed to hold office are people who have never said anything regrettable on social media?'.

    Even with all that, I think Reform's best result would have been to be 'robbed' by Restore. That would have fit their narrative nicely. Sadly they just missed out.

    On your last point - I appreciate the short term benefit of that (consolidate the hard-right vote) - but isn’t that an extremely limited strategy?

    Having a big argument with Lowe about split votes and precisely how many pogroms to conduct isn’t going to put Farage into No 10. At least this time they aren’t blaming “family voting”, which suggests they’ve learnt the lesson from last time.
    The more they get into a fight with Restore the more like a fringe party they look.

    This is the absolute worst time to be doing this with Burnham on the charge.
  • Burnham seems to have a very popular idea that speaks to cost of living concerns when it comes to public “control” of utilities. He’s so far communicated this very well as a direct link to all voters across his coalition. Smart politics.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,942
    JSpring said:

    Ken Clarke's record across three leadership elections was hardly any better.

    He won the first round in 1997 and the final round in 2001 with the MPs.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,139
    Eabhal said:

    One thing I will say in Andy Burnham's favour.

    Tuesday is the tenth anniversary of the United Kingdom voting to put economic sanctions on itself and I had planned to do several threads on Brexit but now I'll be doing lots of threads on Starmer being ousted/the Labour leadership contest instead.

    Didn't we recently have a very well written series of guest headers explaining how well Brexit has gone? So I believe therefore, Brexit has probably been more than covered.
    Those headers probably need to be countered BBC style with something that represents the wide consensus across economists that it hasn’t, actually, been a brilliant success.

    It’s moot though for a betting site. Public opinion continues to move firmly against it, which is what matters in this context. The contrast with SINDY is really interesting, where we are in stasis.
    Reminding one of when the BBC selected Andrea Leadsom to put Pascal Lamy to the sword.🤣
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,140
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Burnham is now clearly the leftwing candidate in any Labour leadership election against Starmer and New Labour Streeting. Whereas he wasn’t in 2015 with Corbyn taking that role nor in 2010 when Ed Miliband and Abbott were the leftist candidates and he was still relatively New Labour.

    Burnham might take some encouragement from Ronald Reagan who was beaten by Nixon in the 1968 Republican primaries and narrowly by Ford in the 1976 Republican primaries. As we all remember though Reagan won the 1980 Republican primaries and then the 1980 and 1984 presidential elections. Biden also ran for the Democrats nomination in 1988 and 2008 losing to Dukakis and Obama before finally winning in 2020 the nomination and presidential election

    In this particular context what would 'leftwing' mean? Does it mean significantly more than having a particular rhetoric about how you talk politics? How does it relate policy and practicewise to: private enterprise, debt to GDP ratios, deficit, benefits, growth, NATO, overall tax levels, interest rates, migration, student loans, and so on? Unless it means different from Starmer, Tories, LDs, etc in ways that can be articulated, how are we to evaluate?

    I think it is Burnham's willingness to take strategic monopolies such as Thames Water into public ownership.
    Starmer is very reluctant because it looks too left wing, even though it is very popular with electors.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,875

    Eabhal said:

    There was also an extremely nasty incident in Edinburgh last night, involving someone allegedly mowing down delivery cyclists and running about with a big knife.

    Baffled as to why it’s not got into the news yet (other than our local press). I suspect there would be a different reaction if the ethnicities were reversed, and I’ll be keeping a close eye on how the Crown Office approach it.

    Looks like the Bandon pipe bomb was far right terror too. The house the pipe bomb was found outside of was is said to be that of a couple involved in developing accommodation for asylum seekers.
    Don’t be so negative.

    The Peace Process is spreading by example.

    Isn’t it great when successful cultural practices are taken up by others?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,512
    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:

    Taking back control...

    Jacinda Ardern: ‘New Zealand will become a republic in my lifetime’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/australasia/article/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-interview-kkppf03f9

    Yes, probably they will. More surprising is places like Jamaica which seem to have had political unanimity on the question for decades but still haven't gotten round to it.

    It doesn't take long to do even where referendums are required so not sure what the hold up is.

    Canada will be last, due to generally being unconcerned.
    I don't think the monarchist bootlickers will be too arsed about Jamaica (too not white) or New Zealand (too unimportant). It's Australia and/or Canada that will sting.
    I don't see why any of them should 'sting'. There are good arguments (IMHO) for a constitutional monarchy, and I can see why nation states with a historical connection to an overseas monarch would prefer to keep that. But it's clearly quite odd to have an overseas head of state, so withdrawing from the arrangement shouldn't cause any hard feelings on either side.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,167
    Eabhal said:

    There was also an extremely nasty incident in Edinburgh last night, involving someone allegedly mowing down delivery cyclists and running about with a big knife.

    Baffled as to why it’s not got into the news yet (other than our local press). I suspect there would be a different reaction if the ethnicities were reversed, and I’ll be keeping a close eye on how the Crown Office approach it.

    Just checked the EEN website, bloody hell, I used to live on Duke Street. Even though that part of Leith was less than gentrified then, it was super safe at any time of the day or night.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,514

    HYUFD said:

    Taking back control...

    Jacinda Ardern: ‘New Zealand will become a republic in my lifetime’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/australasia/article/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-interview-kkppf03f9

    So she says but she never pushed it as PM for a reason nor are the current NZ PM or LOTO

    Plenty of New Zealand polls for keeping a constitutional monarch over a politician head of state too

    https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/10/22/nz-citizens-keen-to-stay-wedded-to-the-monarchy/
    Why anyone would want a professional politician with all the grubbiness and politics that causes (look at burnham and his bothering of an electorate to gain personal power) over a constitutional monarch is beyond me
    People in Ireland are genuinely delighted with their new President and her ball-playing skills, and when you have a President with extremely limited constitutional power, as in Ireland, it isn't really that contentious.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,140

    Barnesian said:

    Starmer has three important international Summit meetings coming up.

    1. NATO on 8th July in Ankara
    2. EU on 22nd July in Brussels
    3. G20 on 15th Dec in Miami.
    I suspect that Burnham will agree to Starmer remaining PM to attend the first two, but will want to introduce himself on the world stage at the G20 in December.
    Well that would be very annoying. Some of us still have positions on Starmer to go in 2027!
    That includes me!
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