Worth re-posting -Martin Kettle from earlier this week:
If a yes victory is declared, how will the British Labour party, meeting for its party conference on the following day in Manchester, react? By promptly agreeing to expedite Scotland's departure? Dream on. A yes vote would explode into the UK party conference season. All the main parties would be destabilised in major ways.
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
All this talk of the country 'ceasing to exist' is rather over-egging the pudding - it makes it sound like the entire country will be wiped out in some form of holocaust.
If you were to ask me what country I belong to, it would be English first, British second. Does anyone answer with 'UK'?
F1: not a classic, it must be said. Three week break to the European part of the calendar, so I'll probably add a bit of a look ahead to the end of my post-race piece.
personally I would like Scotland to vote no - but by tiny margin. As that means there will be massive pressure to give Devomax to Scotland AND Wales, and there would be another vote within a few years and yes will win.
BTW, I agree that Clegg and Ed should also resign. The Yes vote will mark a collective failure and will require new leaders with new outlooks. So much is going to change politically and constitutionally over the next five years. It's going to be fascinating, even if it's a shame it's come to this.
The "shy no" thing seems plausible. In a online conversation today I had a Scottish friend refuse to make a comment on the referendum and his views. Stated he'd seem people slaughtered and abused for doing so.
The general perception was of a very divided nation. Very sad.
LOL, they were not shy when it was 70% NO, why suddenly turn shy, bollocks more like.
F1: not a classic, it must be said. Three week break to the European part of the calendar, so I'll probably add a bit of a look ahead to the end of my post-race piece.
Only a Yorkshireman would put that county first. Everyone else - whether English, Welsh or even Scottish - would put a superb, world-beating county first - Derbyshire!
F1: I agree, it didn't sound a classic. But it will be interesting to see how the Red Bull situation is resolved. I only listened on the radio, but it seems that Vettel ignore team orders. Red Bull need to decide if they are a two-driver team or a one-driver team...
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Why would England wish to remain in any kind of political union with Wales and Northern Ireland in the event of a Yes?
In the event of a yes vote, would it not be more appropriate to rename the remainder The Divided Kingdom? (given we would be separate but sharing the same monarch)
I have mixed feelings on Vettel. On an identical strategy it's arguable that he has every right to say "If he's faster, let him pass me" or the pithier "Tough luck".
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Why would England wish to remain in any kind of political union with Wales and Northern Ireland in the event of a Yes?
Because they don't care much either way and the Welsh and Northern Irish haven't asked to leave?
Good morning all. I have been telling you for months that Scotland is heading for a YES vote so if you haven't got on the better odds when they were available, hard luck.
No matter where I go or the sort of company I find myself in, the IndyRef is the number one topic of conversation after the weather. I don't think there are "shy NOs", quite the opposite, it is the NOs who are speaking out. However they are rapidly becoming drowned out.
Since the CBI came out for NO 48hrs ago, 3 of its leading members have resigned. If YES wins, CBI Scotland may as well close down. Eck much prefers SCDI anyway.
Easterross you can add Visit Scotland and Scottish Enterprise to those 3 and I expect all the universities will follow suit soon at a minimum. That clown McMillan using the CBI for his own prejudice is madness, if I had a company in the CBI , I would be out pronto before my business was damaged. Business interfering in politics is madness, at worst you are likely to lose half your business as you are certain to upset people.
All this talk of the country 'ceasing to exist' is rather over-egging the pudding - it makes it sound like the entire country will be wiped out in some form of holocaust.
If you were to ask me what country I belong to, it would be English first, British second. Does anyone answer with 'UK'?
People need to get a little perspective on this.
I'm British first, English second. But I have for a long time been a staunch unionist, so there may be a feedback effect there.
This morning's polling also throws up an interesting scenario.......Yes narrowly lose in September, despite the polls putting them ahead - we know now why that might happen (Holyrood 2011 weighting vs GE 2010 and spiral of silence) - who to blame? Step forward English born voters......
LOL, from boasting that it was a foregone conclusion unionists are now clutching at straws , hoping that people born in England will save them from ignomy.
F1: working on the post-race piece. Might have actually found something quite interesting (not a news scoop or anything, more of an observable pattern).
If Cameron were to resign in the event of a Scottish Indy "Yes" vote, which I very much doubt, then surely his most obvious and least contentious successor as caretaker PM until next year's General Election would be William Hague, available at stand-out odds of 33/1 from Spreadex compared with 20/1 and 25/1 elsewhere.
This morning's polling also throws up an interesting scenario.......Yes narrowly lose in September, despite the polls putting them ahead - we know now why that might happen (Holyrood 2011 weighting vs GE 2010 and spiral of silence) - who to blame? Step forward English born voters......
LOL, from boasting that it was a foregone conclusion unionists are now clutching at straws , hoping that people born in England will save them from ignomy.
No, I'm reading the polls and thinking ahead - If you are looking for a boaster, go hunt out a mirror.....
I work with lots of French and have discussed Scottish independence with them and they are really looking forward to it. I also discussed possibility of Breton independence and they said it could never happen because French government would simply not allow it, but they are a little more worried about Catalan situation because of knock on effects
Why are french people looking forward to Scottish independence?
All this talk of the country 'ceasing to exist' is rather over-egging the pudding - it makes it sound like the entire country will be wiped out in some form of holocaust.
If you were to ask me what country I belong to, it would be English first, British second. Does anyone answer with 'UK'?
People need to get a little perspective on this.
I'm British first, English second. But I have for a long time been a staunch unionist, so there may be a feedback effect there.
69% of the residents of England would describe themselves as some combination of English and British (the most common being 'equally both').
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
What's this "we" BobaFett ?
This is a Labour screw up
1. 20 years of driving a wedge between England and Scotland in the 80s and 90s 2. Botched devolution 3. Can't get their voters on side for the big day.
face up to it Labour's committing suicide by default.
The new direction may well slow down the posting rate.
" I thought the striking thing about yesterday's Eastleigh poll, was the similarity to the national polls. Swing voters (since the by-election) moved between Con/Lab/UKIP, but only away from the LDs.
It would be interesting to see the question asked in Eastleigh, there can be differences in responses between questions asked about the general election in general, and how people would vote in this constituency in particular......
Q1. Could I confirm that you live in the ward of [Y] ? Q2. On a scale of 0-10, how likely do you think you will be to vote in the next general election in May 2015, where 10 is definitely will vote and 0 is definitely won't vote?
Q3. If that general election were to be held tomorrow, which party do you think you would be most likely to vote for in your Eastleigh constituency?
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
face up to it Labour's committing suicide by default.
But Cameron has got to fix it, its his fault and of course he has to resign.......
@Morris_Dancer You miss the point, the full title would be the Divided Kingdom of Britain. We seem to be voting for independence, but keeping almost all the institutions, customs, and currency. If it were up to me, independence would be a radical change rather than a vanity project
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
face up to it Labour's committing suicide by default.
But Cameron has got to fix it, its his fault and of course he has to resign.......
It's a problem to Cameron because it's his watch, but he didn't create it and is badly placed to fix it. The person doing the resigning should be Miliband since he should be the front line general and yet his troops ain't performing.
The new direction may well slow down the posting rate.
" I thought the striking thing about yesterday's Eastleigh poll, was the similarity to the national polls. Swing voters (since the by-election) moved between Con/Lab/UKIP, but only away from the LDs.
It would be interesting to see the question asked in Eastleigh, there can be differences in responses between questions asked about the general election in general, and how people would vote in this constituency in particular......
Q1. Could I confirm that you live in the ward of [Y] ? Q2. On a scale of 0-10, how likely do you think you will be to vote in the next general election in May 2015, where 10 is definitely will vote and 0 is definitely won't vote?
Q3. If that general election were to be held tomorrow, which party do you think you would be most likely to vote for in your Eastleigh constituency?
Mr. Smarmeron, that does seem to be the rather confusing proposition (I can see the argument for independence, but leaving the UK and trying to keep the pound is just weird).
PS There is no question that Cameron will have to resign after a YES. It'll be like losing a general election times a hundred. He will have lost a third of his nation's territory.
How much more resignable does it get?
And of course he should carry the political can, because he could have offered Devomax, and secured Scotland within the union, but he didn't, because he is a flailing cretin.
I utterly disagree with all of that. ;-)
Disagree all you like, it is the case. Benedict Brogan wasn't lying in his article. Cameron will resign.
Brogan is a useful idiot for some of the anti-Camerons, join him if you wish.
The idea that less than 4% of the UK electorate get to change the PM for the rest of us is for the birds.....
, no PM could survive the break-up of his country
Lloyd George didn't resign over the separation of Ireland. Any examples that support, rather than refute your case?
Three years ago you could not have said the same about the break up of Britain.
John Major warned precisely about this when Labour "killed independence stone dead" with devolution. The recent poll showed the English think the Scottish Parliament has made Scottish independence more likely. And for this a Conservative Prime Minister should resign?
It's not a question of *should* Carlotta (even if I think he should because he screwed up Devomax), it's a question of raw politics. He will be the PM who presided over the break-up of a 300 year old country.
You can't shrug that off. It would be literally the biggest catastrophe in Britain's history, outside wartime. It would make Suez look like losing a by-election. And remember that Eden resigned after Suez.
The moral, emotional and political pressure to resign would be irresistible.
Sean , your usual bubble think. It is not a 300 year old country, it is a union of TWO countries. Typical London thinking that Scotland is just a region.
LOL, they were not shy when it was 70% NO, why suddenly turn shy, bollocks more like.
In this instance I don't know; the topic never came up. however in this instance when I asked his opinion he refused to give it, but I'm sure he's a unionist.
I've not lived in Scotland for 9 years, so my read of the situation may be somewhat off, but I don't think so.
Q1 How long before Cameron is asked the direct question at PMQs? ...... It's one he surely couldn't dodge.
Q2 If he were to confirm his intention to resign in the event of a "Yes" vote, how many tens of thousands of Scottish Indy votes would this add to their tally overnight?
Q3 If, say, Hague were to succeed Cameron as caretaker PM, how would this impact on the Tories' chances of winning the May 2015 General Election?
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
No way will they get their heads out of the trough, they will need to be dragged kicking and screaming. The turnip Darling has had the donkey tail pinned on him so he can take the blame.
@Morris_Dancer A lot of it is weird. I am in the no camp but only just, as there are a lot of benefits an independent Scotland could offer. Over the years though, the SNP has never proposed them*, and instead relied on waving a flag while the no camp have been equally "one eyed"
* to be fair to the SNP, they have proposed lots, just never explained how it would actually work
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Of course you will need something to keep up the charade that you are important.
In the event of a yes vote, would it not be more appropriate to rename the remainder The Divided Kingdom? (given we would be separate but sharing the same monarch)
Lizzie will need to take her proper title of Elizabeth I Queen of Scots............... LOL
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Of course you will need something to keep up the charade that you are important.
Sheesh malc from the people who say they'll sit at top tables everywhere that's a keeper.
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Why would England wish to remain in any kind of political union with Wales and Northern Ireland in the event of a Yes?
Because they don't care much either way and the Welsh and Northern Irish haven't asked to leave?
They don't care much at the moment. My guess is that this will change. The Yes vote will kick-start a big discussion about the future direction of all parts of these islands. And Wales and Northern Ireland are very vulnerable. There may be some debate about how much Scotland contributes to the exchequer. There's no question about the Welsh and the Northern Irish. They are net takers. As a redistributionist I personally have no problem with this, but I find it hard to believe that at least some English politicians will not want to raise this and that it will resonate (they don't like us, why should we support them?). .
This morning's polling also throws up an interesting scenario.......Yes narrowly lose in September, despite the polls putting them ahead - we know now why that might happen (Holyrood 2011 weighting vs GE 2010 and spiral of silence) - who to blame? Step forward English born voters......
LOL, from boasting that it was a foregone conclusion unionists are now clutching at straws , hoping that people born in England will save them from ignomy.
No, I'm reading the polls and thinking ahead - If you are looking for a boaster, go hunt out a mirror.....
OOOOOH not so chirpy today , bad news fro NO upsets you
I work with lots of French and have discussed Scottish independence with them and they are really looking forward to it. I also discussed possibility of Breton independence and they said it could never happen because French government would simply not allow it, but they are a little more worried about Catalan situation because of knock on effects
Why are french people looking forward to Scottish independence?
Q1 How long before Cameron is asked the direct question at PMQs? ...... It's one he surely couldn't dodge.
Q2 If he were to confirm his intention to resign in the event of a "Yes" vote, how many tens of thousands of Scottish Indy votes would this add to their tally overnight?
Q3 If, say, Hague were to succeed Cameron as caretaker PM, how would this impact on the Tories' chances of winning the May 2015 General Election?
1. He'll say he does not expect Scotland to vote Yes so it is not an issue.
It is quite possible to have multiple identities and get on in life as the Chairman of the Tory party has clearly shown.Such is part of life's rich tapestry.
Mr. Smarmeron, that does seem to be the rather confusing proposition (I can see the argument for independence, but leaving the UK and trying to keep the pound is just weird).
I work with lots of French and have discussed Scottish independence with them and they are really looking forward to it. I also discussed possibility of Breton independence and they said it could never happen because French government would simply not allow it, but they are a little more worried about Catalan situation because of knock on effects
Why are french people looking forward to Scottish independence?
Because they like us.
ROFL, the one set of people who we can rely on to screw IndyScots on application to the EU are the french. With Spaniards out for you for their own reasons you'll be roasted like a bimbo at a Permier League piss up.
LOL, they were not shy when it was 70% NO, why suddenly turn shy, bollocks more like.
In this instance I don't know; the topic never came up. however in this instance when I asked his opinion he refused to give it, but I'm sure he's a unionist.
I've not lived in Scotland for 9 years, so my read of the situation may be somewhat off, but I don't think so.
Probably can see the writing on the wall, will be a good few back peddling as they see defeat become ever more likely. Wonder when labour MSP's and MP's will start for the lifeboats.
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Of course you will need something to keep up the charade that you are important.
Sheesh malc from the people who say they'll sit at top tables everywhere that's a keeper.
iScots are less important than Slovakia.
Alan, we do not need to be seen to be important by others, that is the difference. We will be happy with being ourselves.
Because after independence, it is no longer "our" currency, it is the Bank of Englands currency that we will be using as a convenience and in lieu of any other ideas.
I work with lots of French and have discussed Scottish independence with them and they are really looking forward to it. I also discussed possibility of Breton independence and they said it could never happen because French government would simply not allow it, but they are a little more worried about Catalan situation because of knock on effects
Why are french people looking forward to Scottish independence?
Because they like us.
ROFL, the one set of people who we can rely on to screw IndyScots on application to the EU are the french. With Spaniards out for you for their own reasons you'll be roasted like a bimbo at a Permier League piss up.
Alan, You have no faith in mankind, those dastardly foreigners will vote with their wallets and to kick England in the bollocks, that is why it will be easy to remain in the EU for Scotland. Toecaps are being polished as we debate.
F1: incidentally, the 'early tips' I'm trying out (Hulkenberg top 6, Hulkenberg top 3 without Mercedes) half came off, and was down a pound or two. I'll perhaps try them for Spain and Monaco, and then either make it regular or just cease and desist.
Pretty happy with how the season's going thus far, particularly compared with last season.
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Of course you will need something to keep up the charade that you are important.
Sheesh malc from the people who say they'll sit at top tables everywhere that's a keeper.
iScots are less important than Slovakia.
Alan, we do not need to be seen to be important by others, that is the difference. We will be happy with being ourselves.
Then why did we have 2 years of Nats baaaing top table on PB ?
Because after independence, it is no longer "our" currency, it is the Bank of Englands currency that we will be using as a convenience and in lieu of any other ideas.
Doh, is that the same Bank of England that we are part owners of then.
Mr. G, that's a deranged comment. Why would the home of whisky want to drink (in an alcoholic sense) anything else?
Also, on 'kicking England in the bollocks', not sure that's necessarily the best way to stay on good terms with your biggest bilateral trading partner (if Yes wins) and the people with whom you'll be negotiating *and* asking for a currency union.
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Of course you will need something to keep up the charade that you are important.
Sheesh malc from the people who say they'll sit at top tables everywhere that's a keeper.
iScots are less important than Slovakia.
Alan, we do not need to be seen to be important by others, that is the difference. We will be happy with being ourselves.
Then why did we have 2 years of Nats baaaing top table on PB ?
Alan, you are getting mixed up , that is the unionists, they claim we are at the top table in spirit if not in body , because they are there. I am tempted to do a Carlotta and demand you produce a link for your perfidious accusation that Eck would be so crass as to want to be at a top table.
Mr. G, that's a deranged comment. Why would the home of whisky want to drink (in an alcoholic sense) anything else?
Also, on 'kicking England in the bollocks', not sure that's necessarily the best way to stay on good terms with your biggest bilateral trading partner (if Yes wins) and the people with whom you'll be negotiating *and* asking for a currency union.
MD I was talking about the "dastardly foreigners", I am only relaying what they would wish to do not implying that we would hold you down to help them achieve their goal.
PS: on your other point , whilst I enjoy whisky , I also am partial to a nice glass of wine, so not as deranged as you would imagine. If you add Germany as our other pal we have the holy trinity , beer , wine and whisky.
personally I would like Scotland to vote no - but by tiny margin.
A tiny margin yes or no is the worst result for everybody it seems to me. At least if there's a decisive decision we know where we will stand.
50% + 1 for YES will do nicely
That's part of the problem with a close result. 50%+1 and it's a binding result that will stand forever and the question will never be asked again etc etc. 50%-1 and it'll just be chaos.
If YES wins, then the 2015GE should be postponed until 6 months after Scotland has become legally independent and all separation matters put in place. At least that prospect might motivate EdM to support NO or YES.
You've called me worse Unckie and have been forced to apologise. Good to see that Hurst Llama [a few threads ago] has finally recognised your talents...! :P
I work with lots of French and have discussed Scottish independence with them and they are really looking forward to it. I also discussed possibility of Breton independence and they said it could never happen because French government would simply not allow it, but they are a little more worried about Catalan situation because of knock on effects
Why are french people looking forward to Scottish independence?
Because they like us.
ROFL, the one set of people who we can rely on to screw IndyScots on application to the EU are the french. With Spaniards out for you for their own reasons you'll be roasted like a bimbo at a Permier League piss up.
Alan, You have no faith in mankind, those dastardly foreigners will vote with their wallets and to kick England in the bollocks, that is why it will be easy to remain in the EU for Scotland. Toecaps are being polished as we debate.
A touching fantasy Malcolm. Access to a G8 economy of 60 million people is a little more compelling than access to a small economy of 6 million. And that's before you throw in the separatist agendas in Spain, France and elsewhere that EU leaders will want to rein in.
What are the precise legal requirements to postpone the 2015 GE to say 2018 - just a majority in both houses?
Parliament Act [1911?]. Parliament can be extended for a maximum term of seven years. Only allowed in exceptional constitutional circumstances IIRC....
Not sure mentioning that much will endear you to (as Salmond calls us) your 'best pals' in the world, though.
MD, if it gets us cheap claret then it will do for me.
How's voting for the party of minimum alcohol pricing going to get you cheaper claret ?
I only buy quality Alan so it would not impact me personally. It just gets rid of the firewater end of the market and whether it will achieve anything is debatable but something needs to be done. Must say I am a bit hacked off that we do not get the two for one etc offerings nowadays as they are banned.
If YES wins, then the 2015GE should be postponed until 6 months after Scotland has become legally independent and all separation matters put in place. At least that prospect might motivate EdM to support NO or YES.
It's not going to happen, especially as it will take years to sort out the divorce. More likely is a cross-party agreement on the terms of separation so that negotiations can be conducted separate from the normal political process and holding legislation on the status of Scottish MPs in the run-up to independence.
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Of course you will need something to keep up the charade that you are important.
Sheesh malc from the people who say they'll sit at top tables everywhere that's a keeper.
iScots are less important than Slovakia.
We will be happy with being ourselves.
By using someone else's currency.....letting someone else set your interest rates and determine fiscal policy......funny definition of 'being ourselves'.....
Mr. G, that's a deranged comment. Why would the home of whisky want to drink (in an alcoholic sense) anything else?
Also, on 'kicking England in the bollocks', not sure that's necessarily the best way to stay on good terms with your biggest bilateral trading partner (if Yes wins) and the people with whom you'll be negotiating *and* asking for a currency union.
MD I was talking about the "dastardly foreigners", I am only relaying what they would wish to do not implying that we would hold you down to help them achieve their goal.
PS: on your other point , whilst I enjoy whisky , I also am partial to a nice glass of wine, so not as deranged as you would imagine. If you add Germany as our other pal we have the holy trinity , beer , wine and whisky.
hey malc I've worked with the french longer than you, Scotland's in dockside hooker territory.
personally I would like Scotland to vote no - but by tiny margin.
A tiny margin yes or no is the worst result for everybody it seems to me. At least if there's a decisive decision we know where we will stand.
50% + 1 for YES will do nicely
That's part of the problem with a close result. 50%+1 and it's a binding result that will stand forever and the question will never be asked again etc etc. 50%-1 and it'll just be chaos.
True Geoff but hopefully it will be + and we can look to the future and get on with being the best of friends.
Increasing the price of alcohol is like the attempt to ban air rifles, In the case of airguns, poachers will still use them, but the general public will not. In the case of alchohol, you can make a passable "alcopop" in two weeks with ingredients that cost a few pence, legaly.
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Of course you will need something to keep up the charade that you are important.
Sheesh malc from the people who say they'll sit at top tables everywhere that's a keeper.
iScots are less important than Slovakia.
Alan, we do not need to be seen to be important by others, that is the difference. We will be happy with being ourselves.
Then why did we have 2 years of Nats baaaing top table on PB ?
I am tempted to do a Carlotta and demand you produce a link for your perfidious accusation that Eck would be so crass as to want to be at a top table.
Happy to oblige:
Alex Salmond: Independence can give us a seat at the top table
England [and Scotland are] a kingdom, Wales is a principality and Northern Ireland's a province.
The uppityness of the Scots is causing Her Majesty to reconsider this distribution.
I understand she is about to demote Scotland, as a Crown Dependency, to the status of Bailiwick, with the offices of Duke, Lieutenant Governor and Chief Minister up for grabs.
Prince Edward (as Duke of Edinburgh in waiting) is earmarked for the Duchy, Sir Mark Thatcher for the vice gubernatorial role with the office of Chief Minister reserved for the elected Leader of the Council of Holyrood.
At the same time the loyalty of the Northern Irish is to be rewarded. A Palatinate Duchy is being considered with our very own Alanbrooke mooted for the role.
Parliament Act [1911?]. Parliament can be extended for a maximum term of seven years. Only allowed in exceptional constitutional circumstances IIRC....
The Parliament Act 1911 reduced the maximum length of a Parliament from seven to five years. Those provisions have now been superseded by the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, which provides that each Parliament is to be dissolved five years after the meeting of the last. The 2011 Act may be amended by any other Act of Parliament. However, such an Act, which would extend the life of a Parliament, may not be passed under the provisions of section 2 of the 1911 Act (which provides that certain public bills may be submitted for Royal Assent without the assent of the House of Lords).
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Why would England wish to remain in any kind of political union with Wales and Northern Ireland in the event of a Yes?
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Of course you will need something to keep up the charade that you are important.
Sheesh malc from the people who say they'll sit at top tables everywhere that's a keeper.
iScots are less important than Slovakia.
Alan, we do not need to be seen to be important by others, that is the difference. We will be happy with being ourselves.
Then why did we have 2 years of Nats baaaing top table on PB ?
I am tempted to do a Carlotta and demand you produce a link for your perfidious accusation that Eck would be so crass as to want to be at a top table.
Happy to oblige:
Alex Salmond: Independence can give us a seat at the top table
What are the precise legal requirements to postpone the 2015 GE to say 2018 - just a majority in both houses?
Parliament Act [1911?]. Parliament can be extended for a maximum term of seven years. Only allowed in exceptional constitutional circumstances IIRC....
Indeed. Preventing the Commons extending their term indefinitely was part of the role of the revised post-1911 HoL. The key to it being able to fulfil that function was the political independence of the upper House and the hereditaries were an ideal way of doing that..
Then, of course, the rot set in with the nonsense of plastic life "peerages" ... Blair merely continued the constitutional vandalism.
England [and Scotland are] a kingdom, Wales is a principality and Northern Ireland's a province.
The uppityness of the Scots is causing Her Majesty to reconsider this distribution.
I understand she is about to demote Scotland, as a Crown Dependency, to the status of Bailiwick, with the offices of Duke, Lieutenant Governor and Chief Minister up for grabs.
Prince Edward (as Duke of Edinburgh in waiting) is earmarked for the Duchy, Sir Mark Thatcher for the vice gubernatorial role with the office of Chief Minister reserved for the elected Leader of the Council of Holyrood.
At the same time the loyalty of the Northern Irish is to be rewarded. A Palatinate Duchy is being considered with our very own Alanbrooke mooted for the role.
I think you'll find it will be Lord McGuinness of Foyle who will get the honours Mr P.
I've been quietly laughing as the Irish are doing their damnedest to replace the Scots as best neighbour. While the Scotnats have been genetically engineering more chips for their shoulders the Irish have been slowly filling the slots they are vacating.
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Why would England wish to remain in any kind of political union with Wales and Northern Ireland in the event of a Yes?
Because it's the status quo
As we are learning status quo's are not set in stone.
The Parliament Act 1911 reduced the maximum length of a Parliament from seven to five years. Those provisions have now been superseded by the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, which provides that each Parliament is to be dissolved five years after the meeting of the last. The 2011 Act may be amended by any other Act of Parliament. However, such an Act, which would extend the life of a Parliament, may not be passed under the provisions of section 2 of the 1911 Act (which provides that certain public bills may be submitted for Royal Assent without the assent of the House of Lords).
I last studied politics in 1986. Thanks for the update LJ RH!
Here's a wild idea. If the Scots vote Yes they should all resign. The useless lot of them. Dave, Ed and Calamity Clegg plus anyone connected with Better Together. And of course Alistair Carmichael. And all MPs in Scottish seats.
We can then pull together a national government for the next 18 months while we get our heads around how we have ended the UK as a state.
That's certainly possible, but would have other consequences.
Besides 'we' will not have ended the UK as a state if Yes win. The Scots will have decided their own fate, as they have every right to do.
I agree they have the right to do it.
But the UK will no longer exist.
Yes, it will.
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
Of course you will need something to keep up the charade that you are important.
Sheesh malc from the people who say they'll sit at top tables everywhere that's a keeper.
iScots are less important than Slovakia.
Alan, we do not need to be seen to be important by others, that is the difference. We will be happy with being ourselves.
Then why did we have 2 years of Nats baaaing top table on PB ?
I am tempted to do a Carlotta and demand you produce a link for your perfidious accusation that Eck would be so crass as to want to be at a top table.
Happy to oblige:
Alex Salmond: Independence can give us a seat at the top table
England [and Scotland are] a kingdom, Wales is a principality and Northern Ireland's a province.
The uppityness of the Scots is causing Her Majesty to reconsider this distribution.
I understand she is about to demote Scotland, as a Crown Dependency, to the status of Bailiwick, with the offices of Duke, Lieutenant Governor and Chief Minister up for grabs.
Prince Edward (as Duke of Edinburgh in waiting) is earmarked for the Duchy, Sir Mark Thatcher for the vice gubernatorial role with the office of Chief Minister reserved for the elected Leader of the Council of Holyrood.
At the same time the loyalty of the Northern Irish is to be rewarded. A Palatinate Duchy is being considered with our very own Alanbrooke mooted for the role.
I think you'll find it will be Lord McGuinness of Foyle who will get the honours Mr P.
I've been quietly laughing as the Irish are doing their damnedest to replace the Scots as best neighbour. While the Scotnats have been genetically engineering more chips for their shoulders the Irish have been slowly filling the slots they are vacating.
Too stupid remains the killer.
But what happens when the Taig birthrate overtakes the Prod? And the children reach 18? IIRC it's likely that a vote for joining the Republic in about 2030 will give a (small admittedly) majority in the Six Counties in favour of reunification.
I probably shan't care then, but can we ensure that Ian Paisley Jnr and his friends are told to stay there and not flee to England. I'm sure Scotland borders will be closed!
"Have we yet even begun to realise what a huge change may overtake us in September if Scotland votes for independence and Britain ceases to exist?
Silly threats about the pound, the economy and defence simply don’t work. I hope they wouldn’t work on us either. They actually increase the pro-independence vote. So why do we keep making them?
I for one am sure that the High Command of the Tory Party actively wants Scotland to leave. It is the only way the Conservatives, who like office above all things, will ever get a majority at Westminster again. You don’t think they are that cynical? Why ever not?
France wants Britain divided - and Scotland independent - because France will instantly become the dominant military power in Europe, lording it over rUK, and politically much more important than rUK in the EU, etc etc. Scottish independence also makes English departure from the EU much more likely, another key French strategic goal over recent decades.
France will get her revenge after centuries of English humiliation. Scottish independence is win-win-win for France.
It's got bugger all to do with Scots, and everything to do with French pride and Anglophobia.
Next question.
If they'd looked after Mary properly they wouldn't have the problem!
England [and Scotland are] a kingdom, Wales is a principality and Northern Ireland's a province.
The uppityness of the Scots is causing Her Majesty to reconsider this distribution.
I understand she is about to demote Scotland, as a Crown Dependency, to the status of Bailiwick, with the offices of Duke, Lieutenant Governor and Chief Minister up for grabs.
Prince Edward (as Duke of Edinburgh in waiting) is earmarked for the Duchy, Sir Mark Thatcher for the vice gubernatorial role with the office of Chief Minister reserved for the elected Leader of the Council of Holyrood.
At the same time the loyalty of the Northern Irish is to be rewarded. A Palatinate Duchy is being considered with our very own Alanbrooke mooted for the role.
I think you'll find it will be Lord McGuinness of Foyle who will get the honours Mr P.
I've been quietly laughing as the Irish are doing their damnedest to replace the Scots as best neighbour. While the Scotnats have been genetically engineering more chips for their shoulders the Irish have been slowly filling the slots they are vacating.
Too stupid remains the killer.
But what happens when the Taig birthrate overtakes the Prod? And the children reach 18? IIRC it's likely that a vote for joining the Republic in about 2030 will give a (small admittedly) majority in the Six Counties in favour reunification.
I probably shan't care then, but can we ensure that Ian Paisley Jnr and his friends are told to stay there and not flee to England. I'm sure Scotland borders will be closed!
Does the Republic want them?
One thing I have never got about the SNP is its affection for the Scottish diaspora in far away lands, but its seeming reluctance to embrace the one closest to home!
England [and Scotland are] a kingdom, Wales is a principality and Northern Ireland's a province.
The uppityness of the Scots is causing Her Majesty to reconsider this distribution.
I understand she is about to demote Scotland, as a Crown Dependency, to the status of Bailiwick, with the offices of Duke, Lieutenant Governor and Chief Minister up for grabs.
Prince Edward (as Duke of Edinburgh in waiting) is earmarked for the Duchy, Sir Mark Thatcher for the vice gubernatorial role with the office of Chief Minister reserved for the elected Leader of the Council of Holyrood.
At the same time the loyalty of the Northern Irish is to be rewarded. A Palatinate Duchy is being considered with our very own Alanbrooke mooted for the role.
I think you'll find it will be Lord McGuinness of Foyle who will get the honours Mr P.
I've been quietly laughing as the Irish are doing their damnedest to replace the Scots as best neighbour. While the Scotnats have been genetically engineering more chips for their shoulders the Irish have been slowly filling the slots they are vacating.
Too stupid remains the killer.
But what happens when the Taig birthrate overtakes the Prod? And the children reach 18? IIRC it's likely that a vote for joining the Republic in about 2030 will give a (small admittedly) majority in the Six Counties in favour of reunification.
I probably shan't care then, but can we ensure that Ian Paisley Jnr and his friends are told to stay there and not flee to England. I'm sure Scotland borders will be closed!
You've not exactly been following events closely. Currently the birth rates have swapped, but the two barriers to a UI remain, more catholics want to stay in the UK than leave; the South thinks the norths a basket case and doesn't want it. Can't see unity happening any time soon unless a black swan turns up.
France wants Britain divided - and Scotland independent - because France will instantly become the dominant military power in Europe, lording it over rUK, and politically much more important than rUK in the EU, etc etc. Scottish independence also makes English departure from the EU much more likely, another key French strategic goal over recent decades.
In which way will the French be "lauding" over we English? We may pay over-the-price for our kit but it is actually the best there is....
:keep-to-chine-porn:
* LeClerc tanks are reputed to "glow-in-the-dark" when under attack. ** France wants them but are too skint to buy them: They want us to purchase VBCI to cover the cost....
Comments
If a yes victory is declared, how will the British Labour party, meeting for its party conference on the following day in Manchester, react? By promptly agreeing to expedite Scotland's departure? Dream on. A yes vote would explode into the UK party conference season. All the main parties would be destabilised in major ways.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/16/scottish-referendum-woefully-unprepared-yes-vote-impact
He does not appear to think Cameron would resign......
rUK is the continuity state. We just call it rUK for convenience - technically it will still be the UK (and I suspect they will keep the name). How about Wales being raised from a Principality into a Kingdom?
If you were to ask me what country I belong to, it would be English first, British second. Does anyone answer with 'UK'?
People need to get a little perspective on this.
Mr. Jessop, some would put Yorkshire first.
F1: not a classic, it must be said. Three week break to the European part of the calendar, so I'll probably add a bit of a look ahead to the end of my post-race piece.
F1: I agree, it didn't sound a classic. But it will be interesting to see how the Red Bull situation is resolved. I only listened on the radio, but it seems that Vettel ignore team orders. Red Bull need to decide if they are a two-driver team or a one-driver team...
I have mixed feelings on Vettel. On an identical strategy it's arguable that he has every right to say "If he's faster, let him pass me" or the pithier "Tough luck".
A tiny margin yes or no is the worst result for everybody it seems to me. At least if there's a decisive decision we know where we will stand.
Mr. Taffys, I agree. A decisive result matters almost as much as the answer itself.
Would you describe yourself as:
English not British: 15
More English than British: 20
Equally English and British: 39
More British than English: 10
British, not English: 7
The only noteworthy skew was among non-white, who skewed more 'British'
This is a Labour screw up
1. 20 years of driving a wedge between England and Scotland in the 80s and 90s
2. Botched devolution
3. Can't get their voters on side for the big day.
face up to it Labour's committing suicide by default.
Q2. On a scale of 0-10, how likely do you think you will be to vote in the next general election in May 2015, where 10 is definitely will vote and 0 is definitely won't vote?
Q3. If that general election were to be held tomorrow, which party do you think you would be most likely to vote for in your Eastleigh constituency?
http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Eastleigh-Constituency-Poll-Alan-Bown-MOS-April-20th.pdf
http://survation.com/still-a-3-way-marginal-new-polling-in-eastleigh-constituency-survation-for-alan-bown/
You miss the point, the full title would be the Divided Kingdom of Britain.
We seem to be voting for independence, but keeping almost all the institutions, customs, and currency.
If it were up to me, independence would be a radical change rather than a vanity project
http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/bbc_milosevic.htm
Best rid....
I've not lived in Scotland for 9 years, so my read of the situation may be somewhat off, but I don't think so.
Q2 If he were to confirm his intention to resign in the event of a "Yes" vote, how many tens of thousands of Scottish Indy votes would this add to their tally overnight?
Q3 If, say, Hague were to succeed Cameron as caretaker PM, how would this impact on the Tories' chances of winning the May 2015 General Election?
A lot of it is weird. I am in the no camp but only just, as there are a lot of benefits an independent Scotland could offer.
Over the years though, the SNP has never proposed them*, and instead relied on waving a flag while the no camp have been equally "one eyed"
* to be fair to the SNP, they have proposed lots, just never explained how it would actually work
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/china-post-race-analysis.html
iScots are less important than Slovakia.
2. Lots.
3. Negatively.
Not sure mentioning that much will endear you to (as Salmond calls us) your 'best pals' in the world, though.
Because after independence, it is no longer "our" currency, it is the Bank of Englands currency that we will be using as a convenience and in lieu of any other ideas.
Pretty happy with how the season's going thus far, particularly compared with last season.
Why not go the full hog and just do away with elections?
Also, on 'kicking England in the bollocks', not sure that's necessarily the best way to stay on good terms with your biggest bilateral trading partner (if Yes wins) and the people with whom you'll be negotiating *and* asking for a currency union.
I am tempted to do a Carlotta and demand you produce a link for your perfidious accusation that Eck would be so crass as to want to be at a top table.
PS: on your other point , whilst I enjoy whisky , I also am partial to a nice glass of wine, so not as deranged as you would imagine. If you add Germany as our other pal we have the holy trinity , beer , wine and whisky.
50%+1 and it's a binding result that will stand forever and the question will never be asked again etc etc.
50%-1 and it'll just be chaos.
:please-carry-on:
http://nationalcollective.com/2014/04/19/donorgate-annivrsary-edition/
PS, worth looking at the chancellor one as well
Increasing the price of alcohol is like the attempt to ban air rifles, In the case of airguns, poachers will still use them, but the general public will not.
In the case of alchohol, you can make a passable "alcopop" in two weeks with ingredients that cost a few pence, legaly.
Alex Salmond: Independence can give us a seat at the top table
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmond-independence-can-give-1089390
I understand she is about to demote Scotland, as a Crown Dependency, to the status of Bailiwick, with the offices of Duke, Lieutenant Governor and Chief Minister up for grabs.
Prince Edward (as Duke of Edinburgh in waiting) is earmarked for the Duchy, Sir Mark Thatcher for the vice gubernatorial role with the office of Chief Minister reserved for the elected Leader of the Council of Holyrood.
At the same time the loyalty of the Northern Irish is to be rewarded. A Palatinate Duchy is being considered with our very own Alanbrooke mooted for the role.
Does it have to be the top table? Wouldn't any feeding station suffice?
Then, of course, the rot set in with the nonsense of plastic life "peerages" ... Blair merely continued the constitutional vandalism.
I've been quietly laughing as the Irish are doing their damnedest to replace the Scots as best neighbour. While the Scotnats have been genetically engineering more chips for their shoulders the Irish have been slowly filling the slots they are vacating.
Too stupid remains the killer.
"Not a foodbank issue then"
A subject best stayed away from, as IDS and the PM have come to realize.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/19/david-cameron-food-banks-trussell-trust-tory-split.
I probably shan't care then, but can we ensure that Ian Paisley Jnr and his friends are told to stay there and not flee to England. I'm sure Scotland borders will be closed!
Silly threats about the pound, the economy and defence simply don’t work. I hope they wouldn’t work on us either. They actually increase the pro-independence vote. So why do we keep making them?
I for one am sure that the High Command of the Tory Party actively wants Scotland to leave. It is the only way the Conservatives, who like office above all things, will ever get a majority at Westminster again. You don’t think they are that cynical? Why ever not?
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2608679/PETER-HITCHENS-Who-using-spies-lies-grab-power-Kiev-We-are.html#ixzz2zQCk7fsA
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"
One thing I have never got about the SNP is its affection for the Scottish diaspora in far away lands, but its seeming reluctance to embrace the one closest to home!
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/20/treasury-plans-sell-taxpayers-details-labour
Apart from:
# SkyNet-V/ScotNet-V,
# Astute/Vanguard/Successor,
# CVF,
# MARS,
# T45,
# T 23/T 26,
# Chally-II/Dorchester, *
# Brimstone,
# Watchkeeper, **
# Sentinel,
# AirSeeker, and
# Voyager
In which way will the French be "lauding" over we English? We may pay over-the-price for our kit but it is actually the best there is....
:keep-to-chine-porn:
* LeClerc tanks are reputed to "glow-in-the-dark" when under attack.
** France wants them but are too skint to buy them: They want us to purchase VBCI to cover the cost....