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  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,398

    MelonB said:

    Jenrick just on Today yet again pretending he was never in the Tory party let alone a cabinet minister,

    Amongst other things he was banging on about “the net zero madness”. This seems to be the latest US culture war import. Nevermind the physics, let’s treat global climate as a social science. What next: guns, or abortion?

    Reform continue to ape MAGA, while MAGA’s incompetence, corruption and general disregard for reality continues to wreck the US and the global economy.
    Good morning

    It is simply inexplicable that despite everything about Farage and Reform they lead the polls and are winning locals

    The greens are also surprising on the upside, and apart from SNP and Plaid all the other parties are really suffering and that includes the Lib Dems

    This talks to the utter disillusionment with politics and the desire to vote for NOA

    Politics is witnessing an earthquake and frankly being the government of the day is a very unhappy place and about to become worse with decisions on spending, borrowing, and taxing being the nightmare
    The problem, as I mentioned yesterday evening, is the end of ideology in politics. No Party has a coherent and effective programme or set of policies to deal with the demographic, social, cultural and technological changes engulfing us now.

    The great 20th century political movements - fascism, communism, socialism, conservatism, liberalism and social democracy - have all failed and there is currently nothing to replace them. All we have are people shouting about how bad things are and claiming they have answers but what they have isn't anything new and radical but 20th century solutions to 21st century problems - cut taxes, lop £40 billion off spending etc, etc.

    So we drift in what some call "managed decline" until a new set of radical ideas comes forward (and they will). If you want to give yourself a challenge this Good Friday, why not try to conceive of a functioning Government and society in say 2050.

    How does a world function with declining birth rates, a growing elderly population and increasingly acute climate change (to name but three)? Some retreat to narrow ethno-nationalism rather like pulling the bed covers over your head to keep the monsters away. Do we see it all in terms of economic and material prosperity and growth?

    The biggest issue of all is the breaking of the contract between Government and governed - basically, the governed went along with everything on the premise they would be living a better world for their children who wouldn't have to work so hard, so long and sacrifice so much. The disillusionment stems from the realisation that isn't happening - is that a recognition of our own shortcomings, perhaps, and there will be those who argue the desire for immediate economic gratification overcame the desire to invest, save and prepare for the future.

    They have a point.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,124
    stodge said:

    MelonB said:

    Jenrick just on Today yet again pretending he was never in the Tory party let alone a cabinet minister,

    Amongst other things he was banging on about “the net zero madness”. This seems to be the latest US culture war import. Nevermind the physics, let’s treat global climate as a social science. What next: guns, or abortion?

    Reform continue to ape MAGA, while MAGA’s incompetence, corruption and general disregard for reality continues to wreck the US and the global economy.
    Good morning

    It is simply inexplicable that despite everything about Farage and Reform they lead the polls and are winning locals

    The greens are also surprising on the upside, and apart from SNP and Plaid all the other parties are really suffering and that includes the Lib Dems

    This talks to the utter disillusionment with politics and the desire to vote for NOA

    Politics is witnessing an earthquake and frankly being the government of the day is a very unhappy place and about to become worse with decisions on spending, borrowing, and taxing being the nightmare
    The problem, as I mentioned yesterday evening, is the end of ideology in politics. No Party has a coherent and effective programme or set of policies to deal with the demographic, social, cultural and technological changes engulfing us now.

    The great 20th century political movements - fascism, communism, socialism, conservatism, liberalism and social democracy - have all failed and there is currently nothing to replace them. All we have are people shouting about how bad things are and claiming they have answers but what they have isn't anything new and radical but 20th century solutions to 21st century problems - cut taxes, lop £40 billion off spending etc, etc.

    So we drift in what some call "managed decline" until a new set of radical ideas comes forward (and they will). If you want to give yourself a challenge this Good Friday, why not try to conceive of a functioning Government and society in say 2050.

    How does a world function with declining birth rates, a growing elderly population and increasingly acute climate change (to name but three)? Some retreat to narrow ethno-nationalism rather like pulling the bed covers over your head to keep the monsters away. Do we see it all in terms of economic and material prosperity and growth?

    The biggest issue of all is the breaking of the contract between Government and governed - basically, the governed went along with everything on the premise they would be living a better world for their children who wouldn't have to work so hard, so long and sacrifice so much. The disillusionment stems from the realisation that isn't happening - is that a recognition of our own shortcomings, perhaps, and there will be those who argue the desire for immediate economic gratification overcame the desire to invest, save and prepare for the future.

    They have a point.
    Don't worry, by 2050 the AI will be making these decisions for us.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,435
    MelonB said:

    FF43 said:

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    For those whom enjoy EU stories about banning bananas that bend to the right instead of to the left, happy days are back. This time it's marmalade.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0e53x475qjo

    Edit: I see that I am not the first to spot this development.

    A minor example of the sovereignty outcome of Brexit where you have to follow rules the UK no longer has any say in making.
    Only because the current craven and incompetent shower are desperate to rejoin the EU but don't quite have the courage to say so openly so they do it by stealth.

    It should be nobody else's damned business what breakfast spreads are called in foreign countries.
    Question whether it's the consequences of Brexit that are incompetent or Brexit itself.

    Would you prefer to kill off British exports even more than they already are, or change the name of marmalade?
    Neither.

    Let exporters label the marmalade made for export as citrus marmalade and let them label those for the UK as marmalade with "not for EU" on the label.

    Any exporters that want only one label could choose to write citrus marmalade and stack that on our shelves too and that would be their choice.

    Exports allowed, domestic control allowed too. Win/win.
    The food manufacturers really don’t like the whole “not for EU” labelling. Consumer research suggests it implies the product doesn’t meet EU quality standards. Good enough for the Brits, but not for those health conscious Europeans.

    Rightly or wrongly, the EU regulators have built a brand image as consumer safety champions.
    Oh well. And?

    We should not set the law based on what manufacturers want.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,100
    Electoral Cslculus latest forecast is out and tbh feels a bit bullish on Tory seats from under 20%
    https://x.com/i/status/2039980744370446638
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,833
    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    @dixiedean

    Your thoughts on this ? You know the toon better than me, I just visit to eat and drink or theatre. It just seems implausible to me

    https://x.com/leftiestats/status/2039734861057949876?s=61

    Only just seen this.
    I'm suspicious that Reform may well sweep the NE. I believe I mentioned a couple of days ago that I expect Sunderland, Gateshead and South Tyneside. And that I thought Newcastle isn't a stretch.
    Leaves me in the sad place of having to vote Lib Dem (I'm in a currently 3 LD ward).
    I'm very bearish on Labour prospects everywhere really. (Not knowledgeable enough about London).
    That is possible.

    As a straw in the wind, there are places in the North East (Scunthorpe is one) where there is a cultural (I'm highlighting cultural, not racial, style here) intolerance of anything "different" that is quite cross-party, and keen on drawing sharp lines between "us" and "them". Mansfield is quite similar, Ashfield less so.

    If I look for an indicator, one would be Conservative control in more deprived areas over a period of time.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 59,070

    stodge said:

    MelonB said:

    Jenrick just on Today yet again pretending he was never in the Tory party let alone a cabinet minister,

    Amongst other things he was banging on about “the net zero madness”. This seems to be the latest US culture war import. Nevermind the physics, let’s treat global climate as a social science. What next: guns, or abortion?

    Reform continue to ape MAGA, while MAGA’s incompetence, corruption and general disregard for reality continues to wreck the US and the global economy.
    Good morning

    It is simply inexplicable that despite everything about Farage and Reform they lead the polls and are winning locals

    The greens are also surprising on the upside, and apart from SNP and Plaid all the other parties are really suffering and that includes the Lib Dems

    This talks to the utter disillusionment with politics and the desire to vote for NOA

    Politics is witnessing an earthquake and frankly being the government of the day is a very unhappy place and about to become worse with decisions on spending, borrowing, and taxing being the nightmare
    The problem, as I mentioned yesterday evening, is the end of ideology in politics. No Party has a coherent and effective programme or set of policies to deal with the demographic, social, cultural and technological changes engulfing us now.

    The great 20th century political movements - fascism, communism, socialism, conservatism, liberalism and social democracy - have all failed and there is currently nothing to replace them. All we have are people shouting about how bad things are and claiming they have answers but what they have isn't anything new and radical but 20th century solutions to 21st century problems - cut taxes, lop £40 billion off spending etc, etc.

    So we drift in what some call "managed decline" until a new set of radical ideas comes forward (and they will). If you want to give yourself a challenge this Good Friday, why not try to conceive of a functioning Government and society in say 2050.

    How does a world function with declining birth rates, a growing elderly population and increasingly acute climate change (to name but three)? Some retreat to narrow ethno-nationalism rather like pulling the bed covers over your head to keep the monsters away. Do we see it all in terms of economic and material prosperity and growth?

    The biggest issue of all is the breaking of the contract between Government and governed - basically, the governed went along with everything on the premise they would be living a better world for their children who wouldn't have to work so hard, so long and sacrifice so much. The disillusionment stems from the realisation that isn't happening - is that a recognition of our own shortcomings, perhaps, and there will be those who argue the desire for immediate economic gratification overcame the desire to invest, save and prepare for the future.

    They have a point.
    Don't worry, by 2050 the AI will be making these decisions for us.
    By then, AI will decide who you vote for too.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,553
    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    For those whom enjoy EU stories about banning bananas that bend to the right instead of to the left, happy days are back. This time it's marmalade.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0e53x475qjo

    Edit: I see that I am not the first to spot this development.

    A minor example of the sovereignty outcome of Brexit where you have to follow rules the UK no longer has any say in making.
    Only because the current craven and incompetent shower are desperate to rejoin the EU but don't quite have the courage to say so openly so they do it by stealth.

    It should be nobody else's damned business what breakfast spreads are called in foreign countries.
    WEHOLDALLTHECARDS
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,833
    edited 8:53AM
    glw said:

    The large amounts of money involved, is what convinces me.

    A regulation is a promise, in some ways. The government makes a promise that if you are honest, all is good. It is also a promise to defend the good people against the bad.

    So, if I follow the regulations, fill out the paperwork and follow up by doing the right thing, it can cost a vast sum of money.

    If the government doesn’t defend the regulation with enforcement, then Mr Scumbag can destroy my business by cheating. And then everyone else starts to cheat to survive.

    It’s not uncommon in the building industry to find areas, where if you bid for a job on an honest and lawful approach, you will be undercut. By half.

    Some building re-cladding jobs fall into this category.

    Well yeah any lawful activity that is regulated and where it is expensive to do things right can create a perverse incentive to cheat and reap the margin for doing things cheaply. So you'd better be tough on eforcing the rules or you will get a lot of cheating.

    We seem to have got into a real mess with waste and recycling where the costs for doing the right thing has created a lot of dumping for profit. i.e. Charge the customer as though you are disposing of waste properly but dump it in a field somewhere.
    To me that is perhaps mainly down to unwillingness to regulate - eg decline in the reach of Trading Standards. From my beat, I'd also point to tolerance of ASB such as pavement parking.
  • berberian_knowsberberian_knows Posts: 156
    stodge said:

    MelonB said:

    Jenrick just on Today yet again pretending he was never in the Tory party let alone a cabinet minister,

    Amongst other things he was banging on about “the net zero madness”. This seems to be the latest US culture war import. Nevermind the physics, let’s treat global climate as a social science. What next: guns, or abortion?

    Reform continue to ape MAGA, while MAGA’s incompetence, corruption and general disregard for reality continues to wreck the US and the global economy.
    Good morning

    It is simply inexplicable that despite everything about Farage and Reform they lead the polls and are winning locals

    The greens are also surprising on the upside, and apart from SNP and Plaid all the other parties are really suffering and that includes the Lib Dems

    This talks to the utter disillusionment with politics and the desire to vote for NOA

    Politics is witnessing an earthquake and frankly being the government of the day is a very unhappy place and about to become worse with decisions on spending, borrowing, and taxing being the nightmare
    The problem, as I mentioned yesterday evening, is the end of ideology in politics. No Party has a coherent and effective programme or set of policies to deal with the demographic, social, cultural and technological changes engulfing us now.

    The great 20th century political movements - fascism, communism, socialism, conservatism, liberalism and social democracy - have all failed and there is currently nothing to replace them. All we have are people shouting about how bad things are and claiming they have answers but what they have isn't anything new and radical but 20th century solutions to 21st century problems - cut taxes, lop £40 billion off spending etc, etc.

    So we drift in what some call "managed decline" until a new set of radical ideas comes forward (and they will). If you want to give yourself a challenge this Good Friday, why not try to conceive of a functioning Government and society in say 2050.

    How does a world function with declining birth rates, a growing elderly population and increasingly acute climate change (to name but three)? Some retreat to narrow ethno-nationalism rather like pulling the bed covers over your head to keep the monsters away. Do we see it all in terms of economic and material prosperity and growth?

    The biggest issue of all is the breaking of the contract between Government and governed - basically, the governed went along with everything on the premise they would be living a better world for their children who wouldn't have to work so hard, so long and sacrifice so much. The disillusionment stems from the realisation that isn't happening - is that a recognition of our own shortcomings, perhaps, and there will be those who argue the desire for immediate economic gratification overcame the desire to invest, save and prepare for the future.

    They have a point.
    I hadn't heard of the "No" party - they sound great, where do I join?

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,124

    stodge said:

    MelonB said:

    Jenrick just on Today yet again pretending he was never in the Tory party let alone a cabinet minister,

    Amongst other things he was banging on about “the net zero madness”. This seems to be the latest US culture war import. Nevermind the physics, let’s treat global climate as a social science. What next: guns, or abortion?

    Reform continue to ape MAGA, while MAGA’s incompetence, corruption and general disregard for reality continues to wreck the US and the global economy.
    Good morning

    It is simply inexplicable that despite everything about Farage and Reform they lead the polls and are winning locals

    The greens are also surprising on the upside, and apart from SNP and Plaid all the other parties are really suffering and that includes the Lib Dems

    This talks to the utter disillusionment with politics and the desire to vote for NOA

    Politics is witnessing an earthquake and frankly being the government of the day is a very unhappy place and about to become worse with decisions on spending, borrowing, and taxing being the nightmare
    The problem, as I mentioned yesterday evening, is the end of ideology in politics. No Party has a coherent and effective programme or set of policies to deal with the demographic, social, cultural and technological changes engulfing us now.

    The great 20th century political movements - fascism, communism, socialism, conservatism, liberalism and social democracy - have all failed and there is currently nothing to replace them. All we have are people shouting about how bad things are and claiming they have answers but what they have isn't anything new and radical but 20th century solutions to 21st century problems - cut taxes, lop £40 billion off spending etc, etc.

    So we drift in what some call "managed decline" until a new set of radical ideas comes forward (and they will). If you want to give yourself a challenge this Good Friday, why not try to conceive of a functioning Government and society in say 2050.

    How does a world function with declining birth rates, a growing elderly population and increasingly acute climate change (to name but three)? Some retreat to narrow ethno-nationalism rather like pulling the bed covers over your head to keep the monsters away. Do we see it all in terms of economic and material prosperity and growth?

    The biggest issue of all is the breaking of the contract between Government and governed - basically, the governed went along with everything on the premise they would be living a better world for their children who wouldn't have to work so hard, so long and sacrifice so much. The disillusionment stems from the realisation that isn't happening - is that a recognition of our own shortcomings, perhaps, and there will be those who argue the desire for immediate economic gratification overcame the desire to invest, save and prepare for the future.

    They have a point.
    Don't worry, by 2050 the AI will be making these decisions for us.
    By then, AI will decide who you vote for too.
    It will almost certainly be doing my pb posting too.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,297

    FF43 said:

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    For those whom enjoy EU stories about banning bananas that bend to the right instead of to the left, happy days are back. This time it's marmalade.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0e53x475qjo

    Edit: I see that I am not the first to spot this development.

    A minor example of the sovereignty outcome of Brexit where you have to follow rules the UK no longer has any say in making.
    Only because the current craven and incompetent shower are desperate to rejoin the EU but don't quite have the courage to say so openly so they do it by stealth.

    It should be nobody else's damned business what breakfast spreads are called in foreign countries.
    Question whether it's the consequences of Brexit that are incompetent or Brexit itself.

    Would you prefer to kill off British exports even more than they already are, or change the name of marmalade?
    Neither.

    Let exporters label the marmalade made for export as citrus marmalade and let them label those for the UK as marmalade with "not for EU" on the label.

    Any exporters that want only one label could choose to write citrus marmalade and stack that on our shelves too and that would be their choice.

    Exports allowed, domestic control allowed too. Win/win.
    Long way of saying vote for keeping the marmalade name and have less export trade. A single set of regulations apply if you are going to have free circulation of goods. That set of regulations will be the EU's over which we no longer have influence, as this story shows.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,965
    MelonB said:

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    For those whom enjoy EU stories about banning bananas that bend to the right instead of to the left, happy days are back. This time it's marmalade.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0e53x475qjo

    Edit: I see that I am not the first to spot this development.

    A minor example of the sovereignty outcome of Brexit where you have to follow rules the UK no longer has any say in making.
    Only because the current craven and incompetent shower are desperate to rejoin the EU but don't quite have the courage to say so openly so they do it by stealth.

    It should be nobody else's damned business what breakfast spreads are called in foreign countries.
    And yet the whole background to this story is the UK did exactly that while we were members: insisted on what the Spanish and other countries could or could not call their breakfast spreads in their own country.

    Now we’ve left, the EU was able to liberalise the rules.

    Beyond which, of course, bilateral trade policy contains many of these rules, which is why even the Americans can’t call their own sparkling wine champagne.
    When the next civilisation rises from the post-apocalyptic ashes of Hegseth's drunken stumble into nuclear war, at some point they will develop sufficient tech to access PB's archives.

    I suspect a whole week of politics lectures will then be devoted to understanding the systems and structures that persuaded otherwise sentient people to care more about how a sugary orange breakfast condiment was branded than the fact that a senile orange loon caused the end of what had seemed a rather promising attempt at civilisation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,828
    The Trump crime family contd.

    Firm backed by Trump sons tries to sell drone interceptors to Gulf states being attacked by Iran

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/02/eric-trump-drones-gulf-states-iran
    A drone-maker backed by Donald Trump’s two oldest sons is trying to sell to Gulf countries while they are under attack by Iran and dependent on the US military led by their father.

    The sales drive by Florida-based Powerus – which announced a deal last month to bring aboard Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr – positions the company to potentially benefit from a war that their father began.

    “These countries are under enormous pressure to buy from the sons of the president so he will do what they want,” said Richard Painter, a former chief White House ethics lawyer under George W Bush. “This is going to be the first family of a president to make a lot of money off war – a war he didn’t get the consent of Congress for.”..
  • TresTres Posts: 3,553

    FF43 said:

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    For those whom enjoy EU stories about banning bananas that bend to the right instead of to the left, happy days are back. This time it's marmalade.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0e53x475qjo

    Edit: I see that I am not the first to spot this development.

    A minor example of the sovereignty outcome of Brexit where you have to follow rules the UK no longer has any say in making.
    Only because the current craven and incompetent shower are desperate to rejoin the EU but don't quite have the courage to say so openly so they do it by stealth.

    It should be nobody else's damned business what breakfast spreads are called in foreign countries.
    Question whether it's the consequences of Brexit that are incompetent or Brexit itself.

    Would you prefer to kill off British exports even more than they already are, or change the name of marmalade?
    Neither.

    Let exporters label the marmalade made for export as citrus marmalade and let them label those for the UK as marmalade with "not for EU" on the label.

    Any exporters that want only one label could choose to write citrus marmalade and stack that on our shelves too and that would be their choice.

    Exports allowed, domestic control allowed too. Win/win.
    only in barty world is the items in our kitchen cupboards being stamped with 'not for EU' a win.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,124

    Electoral Cslculus latest forecast is out and tbh feels a bit bullish on Tory seats from under 20%
    https://x.com/i/status/2039980744370446638

    With a five way split, it probably opens up the door for a lot of celebs if they fancy becoming an independent MP. Pick the right seat and get 25% running on they are all rubbish should be a winner.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,398

    Brixian59 said:

    MelonB said:

    Jenrick just on Today yet again pretending he was never in the Tory party let alone a cabinet minister,

    Amongst other things he was banging on about “the net zero madness”. This seems to be the latest US culture war import. Nevermind the physics, let’s treat global climate as a social science. What next: guns, or abortion?

    Reform continue to ape MAGA, while MAGA’s incompetence, corruption and general disregard for reality continues to wreck the US and the global economy.
    Meanwhile in Dimsville, the Tories continue to ape Reform aping MAGA. Spending countless time attacking Reform for aping the Tories aping MAGA.

    A fight to the death on the Right of British politics that is a truly enedifying sight for any One Nation traditional Tory.
    I suspect the existential threat is to Labour with the Green break out. I have told you all before, The Tory party are like cockroaches they survive Armageddon.
    The voters will let Reform have a go at filling the potholes.

    But they won't let Reform run the country.
    The Tory brand is still shot away after Johnson and Truss defacated all over it, but I suspect the Conservative Party survive and then thrive as some sort of Reform- Conservative alliance before jettisoning the racist Reform moniker. I suspect the new improved party will not welcome the likes of Spreadsheet and Dom Grieve back.

    Labour could well be finished under Starmer. Having a poor war (with the Leader of the Free World outraged at their treacherous behaviour) against a resurgent LOTO, who to be fair hasn't put a foot wrong. Bookending a hundred years would be a fitting end.
    The only story coming out of the May locals will be the devastation of Labour in its heartlands. It is already scoring under 1% across swathes of the country where it was not competitive.

    If they are to survive, they need to govern W-A-Y better. And they need to get Medieval on Farage's ass.
    Morning all
    On the May front, Ben Walker of Britain Elects has tweeted that he's finishing up their Preview for May and the broad thrust is, in his words, terrrrrible night for the Tories but bloodbath for Labour, which fits with much of the polling and by election evidence of late.
    You can't polish a turd so the former top dogs will have to get creative spinning turd adjacent, less stinky, stuff.
    And maybe in any case we get one of thoee nice/nasty/interesting/unlikely/weird results days to confuse things. Mass youth turnout or unusual keeness in 65 plus shire women or some such
    According to Open Council Data, Labour will be defending 2,268 seats,the Conservatives 1,127 seats and the LDs 665 out of a total of 5,013 seats of various kinds.

    We are going to have a brief period where we have more Councillors than usual - for example, not only will there be elections to the new Unitaries of West and East Surrey (162 seats), which will exist in Shadow form for the next 12 months, but the existing County, District and Borough Councils will all remain in posts until abolition this time next year. This will be replicated through all the other remaining two tier areas over the next couple of years.

    After this round of elections, there will be no local elections in Surrey until 2030 or perhaps 2031 (not sure on that).

    The big rounds of District Council elections will diminish in size and importance as the unitary process rolls out.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,435
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    For those whom enjoy EU stories about banning bananas that bend to the right instead of to the left, happy days are back. This time it's marmalade.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0e53x475qjo

    Edit: I see that I am not the first to spot this development.

    A minor example of the sovereignty outcome of Brexit where you have to follow rules the UK no longer has any say in making.
    Only because the current craven and incompetent shower are desperate to rejoin the EU but don't quite have the courage to say so openly so they do it by stealth.

    It should be nobody else's damned business what breakfast spreads are called in foreign countries.
    Question whether it's the consequences of Brexit that are incompetent or Brexit itself.

    Would you prefer to kill off British exports even more than they already are, or change the name of marmalade?
    Neither.

    Let exporters label the marmalade made for export as citrus marmalade and let them label those for the UK as marmalade with "not for EU" on the label.

    Any exporters that want only one label could choose to write citrus marmalade and stack that on our shelves too and that would be their choice.

    Exports allowed, domestic control allowed too. Win/win.
    Long way of saying vote for keeping the marmalade name and have less export trade. A single set of regulations apply if you are going to have free circulation of goods. That set of regulations will be the EU's over which we no longer have influence, as this story shows.
    No, it is entirely possible to export if you are outside the regulations, you just need to meet the terms of the regulations when you do so.

    When we were in the EU it was possible for us to buy non-EU food. It still is possible for British manufacturers to export to the EU today. Indeed we have a free trade agreement and always have post-Brexit.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,548

    Electoral Cslculus latest forecast is out and tbh feels a bit bullish on Tory seats from under 20%
    https://x.com/i/status/2039980744370446638

    You might as well stick your finger in the air as apply Electoral Calculus on these numbers. A RefCon coalition majority looks comfortable and Labour in double figures is my guess.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 127,208

    NEW THREAD

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,086
    stodge said:

    MelonB said:

    Jenrick just on Today yet again pretending he was never in the Tory party let alone a cabinet minister,

    Amongst other things he was banging on about “the net zero madness”. This seems to be the latest US culture war import. Nevermind the physics, let’s treat global climate as a social science. What next: guns, or abortion?

    Reform continue to ape MAGA, while MAGA’s incompetence, corruption and general disregard for reality continues to wreck the US and the global economy.
    Good morning

    It is simply inexplicable that despite everything about Farage and Reform they lead the polls and are winning locals

    The greens are also surprising on the upside, and apart from SNP and Plaid all the other parties are really suffering and that includes the Lib Dems

    This talks to the utter disillusionment with politics and the desire to vote for NOA

    Politics is witnessing an earthquake and frankly being the government of the day is a very unhappy place and about to become worse with decisions on spending, borrowing, and taxing being the nightmare
    The problem, as I mentioned yesterday evening, is the end of ideology in politics. No Party has a coherent and effective programme or set of policies to deal with the demographic, social, cultural and technological changes engulfing us now.

    The great 20th century political movements - fascism, communism, socialism, conservatism, liberalism and social democracy - have all failed and there is currently nothing to replace them. All we have are people shouting about how bad things are and claiming they have answers but what they have isn't anything new and radical but 20th century solutions to 21st century problems - cut taxes, lop £40 billion off spending etc, etc.

    So we drift in what some call "managed decline" until a new set of radical ideas comes forward (and they will). If you want to give yourself a challenge this Good Friday, why not try to conceive of a functioning Government and society in say 2050.

    How does a world function with declining birth rates, a growing elderly population and increasingly acute climate change (to name but three)? Some retreat to narrow ethno-nationalism rather like pulling the bed covers over your head to keep the monsters away. Do we see it all in terms of economic and material prosperity and growth?

    The biggest issue of all is the breaking of the contract between Government and governed - basically, the governed went along with everything on the premise they would be living a better world for their children who wouldn't have to work so hard, so long and sacrifice so much. The disillusionment stems from the realisation that isn't happening - is that a recognition of our own shortcomings, perhaps, and there will be those who argue the desire for immediate economic gratification overcame the desire to invest, save and prepare for the future.

    They have a point.
    Except... have they failed?

    Compared with pretty much everywhere and everywhen else, this is a good place to be. Some version of liberal democracy and a social market economy without wars works better than all the alternatives. It delivers a better life for more people.

    To quote Michael York's second best film role, "Austin- we won".

    The problem with that is that the easy wins (don't be too socialist, don't leave everything to the market, don't fight wars to take over territory) have been banked; we're left with the much slower and more painful accumulation of incremental gains.

    That's got a couple of consequences. One is the one you note- intergenerational improvement isn't a given any more. The other is that the mortgages we took out in the past aren't as easy to pay off as we thought they would be.

    "They've all failed" is what the demagogues wants us to think.
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,503
    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    @dixiedean

    Your thoughts on this ? You know the toon better than me, I just visit to eat and drink or theatre. It just seems implausible to me

    https://x.com/leftiestats/status/2039734861057949876?s=61

    Only just seen this.
    I'm suspicious that Reform may well sweep the NE. I believe I mentioned a couple of days ago that I expect Sunderland, Gateshead and South Tyneside. And that I thought Newcastle isn't a stretch.
    Leaves me in the sad place of having to vote Lib Dem (I'm in a currently 3 LD ward).
    I'm very bearish on Labour prospects everywhere really. (Not knowledgeable enough about London).
    That is possible.

    As a straw in the wind, there are places in the North East (Scunthorpe is one) where there is a cultural (I'm highlighting cultural, not racial, style here) intolerance of anything "different" that is quite cross-party, and keen on drawing sharp lines between "us" and "them". Mansfield is quite similar, Ashfield less so.

    If I look for an indicator, one would be Conservative control in more deprived areas over a period of time.
    The North East is not as bad as when I first moved up,here.

    Works nights out in Newcastle would see some mackems not go out of ‘principle’ and vice versa.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,838
    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    @dixiedean

    Your thoughts on this ? You know the toon better than me, I just visit to eat and drink or theatre. It just seems implausible to me

    https://x.com/leftiestats/status/2039734861057949876?s=61

    Only just seen this.
    I'm suspicious that Reform may well sweep the NE. I believe I mentioned a couple of days ago that I expect Sunderland, Gateshead and South Tyneside. And that I thought Newcastle isn't a stretch.
    Leaves me in the sad place of having to vote Lib Dem (I'm in a currently 3 LD ward).
    I'm very bearish on Labour prospects everywhere really. (Not knowledgeable enough about London).
    That is possible.

    As a straw in the wind, there are places in the North East (Scunthorpe is one) where there is a cultural (I'm highlighting cultural, not racial, style here) intolerance of anything "different" that is quite cross-party, and keen on drawing sharp lines between "us" and "them". Mansfield is quite similar, Ashfield less so.

    If I look for an indicator, one would be Conservative control in more deprived areas over a period of time.
    Scunthorpe is not a place in the north east!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,096
    MattW said:

    glw said:

    The large amounts of money involved, is what convinces me.

    A regulation is a promise, in some ways. The government makes a promise that if you are honest, all is good. It is also a promise to defend the good people against the bad.

    So, if I follow the regulations, fill out the paperwork and follow up by doing the right thing, it can cost a vast sum of money.

    If the government doesn’t defend the regulation with enforcement, then Mr Scumbag can destroy my business by cheating. And then everyone else starts to cheat to survive.

    It’s not uncommon in the building industry to find areas, where if you bid for a job on an honest and lawful approach, you will be undercut. By half.

    Some building re-cladding jobs fall into this category.

    Well yeah any lawful activity that is regulated and where it is expensive to do things right can create a perverse incentive to cheat and reap the margin for doing things cheaply. So you'd better be tough on eforcing the rules or you will get a lot of cheating.

    We seem to have got into a real mess with waste and recycling where the costs for doing the right thing has created a lot of dumping for profit. i.e. Charge the customer as though you are disposing of waste properly but dump it in a field somewhere.
    To me that is perhaps mainly down to unwillingness to regulate - eg decline in the reach of Trading Standards. From my beat, I'd also point to tolerance of ASB such as pavement parking.
    Enforcement is the issue.

    So ever more regulations. And no one enforces them.

    This has a societal effect, I think. The law abiding think they are mugs. They see widespread evasion of rules and laws, without consequence.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,086

    MattW said:

    glw said:

    The large amounts of money involved, is what convinces me.

    A regulation is a promise, in some ways. The government makes a promise that if you are honest, all is good. It is also a promise to defend the good people against the bad.

    So, if I follow the regulations, fill out the paperwork and follow up by doing the right thing, it can cost a vast sum of money.

    If the government doesn’t defend the regulation with enforcement, then Mr Scumbag can destroy my business by cheating. And then everyone else starts to cheat to survive.

    It’s not uncommon in the building industry to find areas, where if you bid for a job on an honest and lawful approach, you will be undercut. By half.

    Some building re-cladding jobs fall into this category.

    Well yeah any lawful activity that is regulated and where it is expensive to do things right can create a perverse incentive to cheat and reap the margin for doing things cheaply. So you'd better be tough on eforcing the rules or you will get a lot of cheating.

    We seem to have got into a real mess with waste and recycling where the costs for doing the right thing has created a lot of dumping for profit. i.e. Charge the customer as though you are disposing of waste properly but dump it in a field somewhere.
    To me that is perhaps mainly down to unwillingness to regulate - eg decline in the reach of Trading Standards. From my beat, I'd also point to tolerance of ASB such as pavement parking.
    Enforcement is the issue.

    So ever more regulations. And no one enforces them.

    This has a societal effect, I think. The law abiding think they are mugs. They see widespread evasion of rules and laws, without consequence.
    Trading standards and building control are local government, aren't they? Which is now social care and bin collection.

    Not all our problems stem from refusal to pay for social care explicitly, some are dislike of housebuilding.

    But an awful lot do, and it is what we have voted for.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,100
    stodge said:

    Brixian59 said:

    MelonB said:

    Jenrick just on Today yet again pretending he was never in the Tory party let alone a cabinet minister,

    Amongst other things he was banging on about “the net zero madness”. This seems to be the latest US culture war import. Nevermind the physics, let’s treat global climate as a social science. What next: guns, or abortion?

    Reform continue to ape MAGA, while MAGA’s incompetence, corruption and general disregard for reality continues to wreck the US and the global economy.
    Meanwhile in Dimsville, the Tories continue to ape Reform aping MAGA. Spending countless time attacking Reform for aping the Tories aping MAGA.

    A fight to the death on the Right of British politics that is a truly enedifying sight for any One Nation traditional Tory.
    I suspect the existential threat is to Labour with the Green break out. I have told you all before, The Tory party are like cockroaches they survive Armageddon.
    The voters will let Reform have a go at filling the potholes.

    But they won't let Reform run the country.
    The Tory brand is still shot away after Johnson and Truss defacated all over it, but I suspect the Conservative Party survive and then thrive as some sort of Reform- Conservative alliance before jettisoning the racist Reform moniker. I suspect the new improved party will not welcome the likes of Spreadsheet and Dom Grieve back.

    Labour could well be finished under Starmer. Having a poor war (with the Leader of the Free World outraged at their treacherous behaviour) against a resurgent LOTO, who to be fair hasn't put a foot wrong. Bookending a hundred years would be a fitting end.
    The only story coming out of the May locals will be the devastation of Labour in its heartlands. It is already scoring under 1% across swathes of the country where it was not competitive.

    If they are to survive, they need to govern W-A-Y better. And they need to get Medieval on Farage's ass.
    Morning all
    On the May front, Ben Walker of Britain Elects has tweeted that he's finishing up their Preview for May and the broad thrust is, in his words, terrrrrible night for the Tories but bloodbath for Labour, which fits with much of the polling and by election evidence of late.
    You can't polish a turd so the former top dogs will have to get creative spinning turd adjacent, less stinky, stuff.
    And maybe in any case we get one of thoee nice/nasty/interesting/unlikely/weird results days to confuse things. Mass youth turnout or unusual keeness in 65 plus shire women or some such
    According to Open Council Data, Labour will be defending 2,268 seats,the Conservatives 1,127 seats and the LDs 665 out of a total of 5,013 seats of various kinds.

    We are going to have a brief period where we have more Councillors than usual - for example, not only will there be elections to the new Unitaries of West and East Surrey (162 seats), which will exist in Shadow form for the next 12 months, but the existing County, District and Borough Councils will all remain in posts until abolition this time next year. This will be replicated through all the other remaining two tier areas over the next couple of years.

    After this round of elections, there will be no local elections in Surrey until 2030 or perhaps 2031 (not sure on that).

    The big rounds of District Council elections will diminish in size and importance as the unitary process rolls out.
    Yeah we will have shadow dudes in the 3 new Norfolk unitaries next year. I'm just the right side of the border to escape the Greater Norwich debacle but the rest of my close family are now suddenly due to be metropolis dwellers much to their chagrin.
    North Norfolk and Great Yarmouth with bits of Broadland and South Norfolk (East Norfolk) is a highly weird conglomerate
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,802
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2039812602851623263

    BREAKING: Russia, China, and France are blocking an Arab-backed push at the UN Security Council to authorize military action against Iran to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, per NYT.

    According to diplomats, the three veto powers oppose any resolution language that would permit the use of force.

    Know who your enemies are.
    Yet it’s being reported France is willing to help open the strait !

    https://x.com/osint613/status/2039952505057030430?s=61
    I shall believe anyone is going to help open the Strait, when their men and materiel turn up at least somewhere close.
    We will see.
    But let's remember who caused the massive problem in the first place.
    Iran.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,553
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2039812602851623263

    BREAKING: Russia, China, and France are blocking an Arab-backed push at the UN Security Council to authorize military action against Iran to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, per NYT.

    According to diplomats, the three veto powers oppose any resolution language that would permit the use of force.

    Know who your enemies are.
    Yet it’s being reported France is willing to help open the strait !

    https://x.com/osint613/status/2039952505057030430?s=61
    I shall believe anyone is going to help open the Strait, when their men and materiel turn up at least somewhere close.
    We will see.
    But let's remember who caused the massive problem in the first place.
    Iran.
    +1 UAE good citizen credit
  • Tres said:

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    For those whom enjoy EU stories about banning bananas that bend to the right instead of to the left, happy days are back. This time it's marmalade.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0e53x475qjo

    Edit: I see that I am not the first to spot this development.

    A minor example of the sovereignty outcome of Brexit where you have to follow rules the UK no longer has any say in making.
    Only because the current craven and incompetent shower are desperate to rejoin the EU but don't quite have the courage to say so openly so they do it by stealth.

    It should be nobody else's damned business what breakfast spreads are called in foreign countries.
    WEHOLDALLTHECARDS
    Getting strong Major-from-Fawlty-Towers vibes from Fishing's last para.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,802
    Tres said:

    Sandpit said:

    MelonB said:

    Jenrick just on Today yet again pretending he was never in the Tory party let alone a cabinet minister,

    Amongst other things he was banging on about “the net zero madness”. This seems to be the latest US culture war import. Nevermind the physics, let’s treat global climate as a social science. What next: guns, or abortion?

    Reform continue to ape MAGA, while MAGA’s incompetence, corruption and general disregard for reality continues to wreck the US and the global economy.
    Good morning

    It is simply inexplicable that despite everything about Farage and Reform they lead the polls and are winning locals

    The greens are also surprising on the upside, and apart from SNP and Plaid all the other parties are really suffering and that includes the Lib Dems

    This talks to the utter disillusionment with politics and the desire to vote for NOA

    Politics is witnessing an earthquake and frankly being the government of the day is a very unhappy place and about to become worse with decisions on spending, borrowing, and taxing being the nightmare
    People are becoming disillusioned with politics, or should I say disillusioned with the politicians, who appear unable to make difficult decisions and to articulate anything unpopular to the public.

    The current lot appear to be masters of announcing an unpopular policy, running with it for weeks, and then reversing course after too much media/backbencher pressure, therefore upsetting both those in favour of, and those against, the actual policy.

    It’s not a surprise that people are turning to NOTA parties.
    How is morale in the sandpit? I've been talking to various people over the last week who've mentioned family and friends are deciding to return to blighty.
    Still pretty good from where I’m looking.

    I don’t know of anyone quitting jobs. We are WFH though, to avoid the whole company being in the same building, and some multinationals, banks etc are allowing the option to work from elsewhere on request. Some furloughing in hostpitality sector as tourism is quiet, but on the other hand a cheap staycation coming up!

    Obviously a hope that things will soon get better, but GCC governments are determined to ‘deal with’ the Iran problem once and for all. It’s been nearly half a century of disruption in the region, with pretty much all of it Iran-based.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,802

    Is there a LEGO model of Artemis yet? (Of were they waiting to make sue it didn't disassemble on the launch pad first?)

    "Artemis - more pieces than the LEGO kit!"

    Yes there is, I was looking at it in the shop only an hour ago.
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