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Trump still retains the support of MAGA but the trend is not his friend – politicalbetting.com

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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,090
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    It is rather telling that in all this talk of closer ties with Europe, it is individual European leaders who are acting arbitrarily and not as the EU

    Italy and Spain differ from Germany and France and others with Ursula von der Leyen marginalised

    We'll make a Brexiteer out of you yet, Big-G :D

    Hope you and Mrs G are doing well? 🙏
    Thank you

    I voted remain but, like I once smoked, I do not want to start again

    We are struggling rather, but we support each other and are grateful we have so many blessings

    It is 50 years ago today that we moved into our home with our three children and we still hear laughter from those days added to by our precious grandchildren

    It is the family home and we will only leave it to go into care or meet our creator
    I'm so sorry to hear you are struggling, Big G.

    I lost my lovely mum in 2022 but still live in the family home (at one time there was seven people here but one by one they've all gone away and I'm the last one left) I still hear the good times and they are previous memories.

    I wish for nothing but the very best for you and Mrs G, long into the future. :heart:
    You are so kind and to be fair my medics over the last 2 years have been fantastic including inserting a pacemaker
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,744

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    Royal London Short Term Money Market Y Acc, gives 4-5% annually and you can cash in quickly if you want
    Proper finance when you ask, but lets get on with bashing the English. (although that may have changed)
    LOL, when do I ever bash the English, it is the morons in Westminster I dislike. Scottish are worse being so feeble and dimwitted they are scared to be independent. How pathetic do you need to b eto want someone else to run your country, makes me ashamed.
    There are plenty of Scottish MPs and even Scottish Cabinet Ministers in the UK government
    Not enough for @malcolmg
    Too many. When we’re independent, there will be none.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,090

    We are well into election mode. Ed Davey trailing a big cost of living policy announcement for tomorrow morning on X

    Who ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,852
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Iran open letter to,the US people

    It’s rather long. Too long for here

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2039416198266307044?s=61

    Got to say I rather like this line

    Is it not evident that Israel now aims to fight Iran to the last American soldier and the last American taxpayer dollar
    "The Iranian people harbor no enmity toward other nations, including the people of America"

    Erm... isn't their brand strap - death to america???

    The letter is clear that Iranians make a distinction between governments (which may be their enemies) and their peoples (who are not enemies).

    Fine words and it would be good if it was honoured, and also honoured by other governments too.
    It is pretty disingenuous in other ways. Iran certainly does wish ill on the ordinary non-Shia people of the Middle East, and has been aggressive towards others - invading Iraq after thwarting their invasion, or their innumerable proxy wars and revolutions (the Houthis, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hizbollah).

    It just so happens that because Trump and Netanyahu have launched a totally unprovoked attack backed by manifestly spurious justifications they see an opportunity to seize the moral high ground. I suppose Pezeshkian can't be blamed for taking it (de Valera did the same in his radio debate against Churchill in 1945).

    Ultimately, however, if he was serious about goodwill towards others he would have said Hormuz will reopen the instant the bombing stops. As far as I can see he hasn't (although that's probably not within his gift).
    Sure, but the whole letter is more literate and more reasonable than Trump's incontinent ramblings.

    It also lays down one of the Iranian requirements: the closure of US bases in the Gulf. It is possible that Trump will pull an agreement like his one with the Taliban to close US bases there and claim victory.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,345
    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,405
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Iran open letter to,the US people

    It’s rather long. Too long for here

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2039416198266307044?s=61

    Got to say I rather like this line

    Is it not evident that Israel now aims to fight Iran to the last American soldier and the last American taxpayer dollar
    "The Iranian people harbor no enmity toward other nations, including the people of America"

    Erm... isn't their brand strap - death to america???

    The letter is clear that Iranians make a distinction between governments (which may be their enemies) and their peoples (who are not enemies).

    Fine words and it would be good if it was honoured, and also honoured by other governments too.
    It is pretty disingenuous in other ways. Iran certainly does wish ill on the ordinary non-Shia people of the Middle East, and has been aggressive towards others - invading Iraq after thwarting their invasion, or their innumerable proxy wars and revolutions (the Houthis, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hizbollah).

    It just so happens that because Trump and Netanyahu have launched a totally unprovoked attack backed by manifestly spurious justifications they see an opportunity to seize the moral high ground. I suppose Pezeshkian can't be blamed for taking it (de Valera did the same in his radio debate against Churchill in 1945).

    Ultimately, however, if he was serious about goodwill towards others he would have said Hormuz will reopen the instant the bombing stops. As far as I can see he hasn't (although that's probably not within his gift).
    Sure, but the whole letter is more literate and more reasonable than Trump's incontinent ramblings.

    It also lays down one of the Iranian requirements: the closure of US bases in the Gulf. It is possible that Trump will pull an agreement like his one with the Taliban to close US bases there and claim victory.

    That’s the bare minimum you would hope for from a national leader - ‘doesn’t write like a dementia addled pervert.’

    And I know Trump fails that test but Ahmadinajed apart the Ayatollahs have tried not to be too openly batshit in their choices.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 135,205
    edited 8:09PM

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    Royal London Short Term Money Market Y Acc, gives 4-5% annually and you can cash in quickly if you want
    Proper finance when you ask, but lets get on with bashing the English. (although that may have changed)
    LOL, when do I ever bash the English, it is the morons in Westminster I dislike. Scottish are worse being so feeble and dimwitted they are scared to be independent. How pathetic do you need to b eto want someone else to run your country, makes me ashamed.
    There are plenty of Scottish MPs and even Scottish Cabinet Ministers in the UK government
    Not enough for @malcolmg
    When England had Gordon Brown as its Scottish PM and Alistair Darling as its Scottish Chancellor, neither of whom it voted for to those positions, from 2007 to 2010 was MalcG complaining? No
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,090
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    Royal London Short Term Money Market Y Acc, gives 4-5% annually and you can cash in quickly if you want
    Proper finance when you ask, but lets get on with bashing the English. (although that may have changed)
    LOL, when do I ever bash the English, it is the morons in Westminster I dislike. Scottish are worse being so feeble and dimwitted they are scared to be independent. How pathetic do you need to b eto want someone else to run your country, makes me ashamed.
    There are plenty of Scottish MPs and even Scottish Cabinet Ministers in the UK government
    Not enough for @malcolmg
    When England had Gordon Brown as its Scottish PM and Alistair Darling as its Scottish Chancellor, neither of whom it voted for, from 2007 to 2010 was MalcG complaining? No
    I have no idea what was said then
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,925
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    Stocks and shares is usually best, with assistance from an expert financial advisor.
    Both are more long term, and look rather peaky at present. A bear market is quite likely in the next year or two.
    Ideal time to buy.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,754
    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    I would hope that, done right, we actually bring jobs, industry and expertise to the UK, so it needn't be quite as negative as you frame it.

    All we need to ensure is that whoever is in charge is not a complete muppet.

    https://clip.cafe/lock-stock-two-smoking-barrels-1998/i-dont-wanna-know-you-use/?srsltid=AfmBOoqL7JDqiwGjoeCtbFFDWnkCYQOKnb7z-chAXL1WNTOMTJbR19LE
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,754
    Nigelb said:

    Greece emerges out of its financial pariah status.

    MSCI reclassifies #Greece to Developed Market from Emerging Market.
    https://x.com/Schuldensuehner/status/2039092454176006382

    That's just one step from submerging market!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,727
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    Royal London Short Term Money Market Y Acc, gives 4-5% annually and you can cash in quickly if you want
    Proper finance when you ask, but lets get on with bashing the English. (although that may have changed)
    LOL, when do I ever bash the English, it is the morons in Westminster I dislike. Scottish are worse being so feeble and dimwitted they are scared to be independent. How pathetic do you need to b eto want someone else to run your country, makes me ashamed.
    There are plenty of Scottish MPs and even Scottish Cabinet Ministers in the UK government
    Not enough for @malcolmg
    When England had Gordon Brown as its Scottish PM and Alistair Darling as its Scottish Chancellor, neither of whom it voted for to those positions, from 2007 to 2010 was MalcG complaining? No
    The rise of the SNP has hugely reduced the influence of Scottish MPs in the UK government. They used to have an outsized role in many governments, particularly Labour ones, but SNP MPs, of course, never play that role.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,188
    kyf_100 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    Stocks and shares is usually best, with assistance from an expert financial advisor.
    Depends how much you like paying a percentage to someone to do F.A.

    Allocate a % to gld + btc (20%, split as you prefer), the other 80% should go towards a stake in a productive asset generating a return. If you have 20k buy 1/5th of a cafe. If you have 200k, buy 2 flats oop north. If you have 2m, buy a turnkey business with minimal labour costs/human capital and fairly stable rates of return (anything from scaffolding to renting out diggers to doing bridging loans).
    You can get a world tracker ETF for only a 0.1% charge.

    https://www.justetf.com/en/search.html?search=ETFS&assetClass=class-equity&region=World&sortOrder=asc&sortField=ter

    Which is a lot more likely to show a positive return than investing in a cafe and a lot more productive than becoming a landlord.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,460

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    Gold, although I suspect that's a bit overpriced at the moment.
    IIRC Gold has been all over the fucking place in the last couple of years

    But maybe that's the case with everything, There are no more safe havens
    Buy objects that bring beauty in to your life. Paintings, object d'art, first editions, curios. If they are widely acknowledged as amongst the best in their sphere, they will always be in demand - and hence always attract top prices.
    Great advice. Only problem - I've already done that! My flat is now decadently full of lovely things. I do not have room for more
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,345
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    I would hope that, done right, we actually bring jobs, industry and expertise to the UK, so it needn't be quite as negative as you frame it.

    All we need to ensure is that whoever is in charge is not a complete muppet.

    https://clip.cafe/lock-stock-two-smoking-barrels-1998/i-dont-wanna-know-you-use/?srsltid=AfmBOoqL7JDqiwGjoeCtbFFDWnkCYQOKnb7z-chAXL1WNTOMTJbR19LE
    Not a complete Muppet you say? Can't relate.
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 633

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    Stocks and shares is usually best, with assistance from an expert financial advisor.
    Both are more long term, and look rather peaky at present. A bear market is quite likely in the next year or two.
    Ideal time to buy.
    25% gold, 25% tunned food, 25% personal small arms and 25% investment grade cocaine. With that sort of portfolio you will be able to negotiate your way out of whatever it is that Trump is thrusting onto us.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,762
    A political thought on the Artemis program: Some time ago Mitch Daniels, in a column at the WaPo argued that the US space program had suffered from partisan switches in objectives. So, for instance, when Obama replaced Bush, you might see a change in direction, with some of the previous progress lost. Soon after that column, I saw a public effort to get an agreement on objectives between the key Congressional committee chair, and the NASA administrator, the two then being from different parties.

    And I wonder if the Artemis program might be an example of what bipartisan cooperation can do. (Artemis was begun under Trump I, and then continued under Biden. Along the way, Musk had to give up his direct-to-Mars plan.)

    (For me, his once-a-month columns are worth the price of a WAPO subscription, all by themselves.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitch_Daniels )

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,954
    Taz said:

    What a night.

    The best of humanity as Artemis heads to the moon and our exploration of our near neighbours finally continues.

    And the absolute worst as Donald Trump delivers a talk from the White House on the joys of ego inflating wars.



    Is it just me or is it not weird that Artemis hasn't had more...hype...around it? I know they're not landing on the moon, but it feels like the whole thing has gone under the radar quite a bit for what will (with luck) be the most significant spaceflight for half a century.
    I’d agree. It’s a subject I’ve more than a passing interest in. I’ll regularly watch YouTube videos about the stars, galaxy and the universe yet first I heard was today.
    I feel sorry for the crew of the planned Artemis III who will have to be 'congratulated' by Trump. As in, an hour of rambling and ranting about... whatever is annoying him that day. The colour of the paint in his lavvy, how NASA are woke, how he was illegally robbed in 2020. Oh, and sorry-not-sorry for firing these nukes at the moon.
  • CarrCarr Posts: 20
    edited 8:26PM
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    You may have already done this, but: your daughter is at uni - you can minimise her debt. That strikes me as a pretty tax efficient investment. Yes, technically, it'll no longer be your money - but it'll all end up going to her in the long run anyway.
    That's a nice idea, and thankyou for taking time t advise me, but I honestly think the global economic system is going to be totally overturned within five-fifteen years because REDACTED REDACTED so long term debt (and pensions and mortgages) really will not matter. We will either be dead, enslaved or living in wild abundance

    I want somewhere I can put my money, keep it pretty liquid, get a decent return in the short term. If such a thing is possible. It may not be

    Just spend your capital and say fuck it. If you were to reap a decent return in the short term, what help would it be when the short term is over and the Great Overturning is upon us? Or make a few hail Mary bets for the lolz if you feel a need to keep thinking about money.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 5,084
    edited 8:25PM

    kyf_100 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    Stocks and shares is usually best, with assistance from an expert financial advisor.
    Depends how much you like paying a percentage to someone to do F.A.

    Allocate a % to gld + btc (20%, split as you prefer), the other 80% should go towards a stake in a productive asset generating a return. If you have 20k buy 1/5th of a cafe. If you have 200k, buy 2 flats oop north. If you have 2m, buy a turnkey business with minimal labour costs/human capital and fairly stable rates of return (anything from scaffolding to renting out diggers to doing bridging loans).
    Scaffolding can go down as well as up.
    LOL. Quite.

    However there is much too much centrist dad middle class ISA VTSAX tracker mid tier advice in this thread.

    Leon would be wise to remember the aphorism "where there's muck there's brass".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 135,205
    edited 8:29PM

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    Royal London Short Term Money Market Y Acc, gives 4-5% annually and you can cash in quickly if you want
    Proper finance when you ask, but lets get on with bashing the English. (although that may have changed)
    LOL, when do I ever bash the English, it is the morons in Westminster I dislike. Scottish are worse being so feeble and dimwitted they are scared to be independent. How pathetic do you need to b eto want someone else to run your country, makes me ashamed.
    There are plenty of Scottish MPs and even Scottish Cabinet Ministers in the UK government
    Not enough for @malcolmg
    When England had Gordon Brown as its Scottish PM and Alistair Darling as its Scottish Chancellor, neither of whom it voted for to those positions, from 2007 to 2010 was MalcG complaining? No
    The rise of the SNP has hugely reduced the influence of Scottish MPs in the UK government. They used to have an outsized role in many governments, particularly Labour ones, but SNP MPs, of course, never play that role.
    True from 2010 until 2024 but now Labour have a majority of MPs from Scotland again there are Scottish Cabinet Ministers again too eg Douglas Alexander
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 59,019
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    Gold, although I suspect that's a bit overpriced at the moment.
    IIRC Gold has been all over the fucking place in the last couple of years

    But maybe that's the case with everything, There are no more safe havens
    Buy objects that bring beauty in to your life. Paintings, object d'art, first editions, curios. If they are widely acknowledged as amongst the best in their sphere, they will always be in demand - and hence always attract top prices.
    Great advice. Only problem - I've already done that! My flat is now decadently full of lovely things. I do not have room for more
    You can never have too much beauty surrounding you. Get a Georgian gentleman's cabinet, full of all manner of things to amaze and amuse.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,871
    Sean_F said:

    The degree of hate which the MAGA’s have for long-standing allies, has seemingly come out of nowhere. And, it is so self-defeating. These are a people in decline, lashing out at any target in reach.

    Largely driven by the gut realisation that the American Century is ending. They are mad as hell about that, even if they couldn't put it into any coherent words. That's why you get all the anti China stuff, the desire to onshore manufacturing (even nearly worthless stuff), anti-trade tariffs that hurt Americans, rejection of new industries to try and hold on to things that are on the way out, denigration of Europe where they can clearly see many things are done better than in the US, and one last go at beating some of their historic antagonists.

    Donald Trump and MAGA is maybe the best thing to ever happen for China. China is going to absolutely lap the US now.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,588
    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    It never made sense. An 'independent' nuclear deterrent can never be 'dependent' on another country, however close the allegiance. We are very close to the Republic of Ireland. Would we give the Republic of Ireland the ability to nuke someone and invite reprisals that could destroy us, without having an emergency kill switch built in? I wouldn't. What responsible country would? It was always a complete nonsense.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,566
    glw said:

    Sean_F said:

    The degree of hate which the MAGA’s have for long-standing allies, has seemingly come out of nowhere. And, it is so self-defeating. These are a people in decline, lashing out at any target in reach.

    Largely driven by the gut realisation that the American Century is ending. They are mad as hell about that, even if they couldn't put it into any coherent words. That's why you get all the anti China stuff, the desire to onshore manufacturing (even nearly worthless stuff), anti-trade tariffs that hurt Americans, rejection of new industries to try and hold on to things that are on the way out, denigration of Europe where they can clearly see many things are done better than in the US, and one last go at beating some of their historic antagonists.

    Donald Trump and MAGA is maybe the best thing to ever happen for China. China is going to absolutely lap the US now.
    Which US presidency hasn’t been good for China?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,084
    @unusualwhales.bsky.social‬

    Look at this.

    This wallet has just put an $800,000 bet on boots on the ground in Iran.

    They previously were right about the time US struck Iran first.

    Unusual.

    https://bsky.app/profile/duncanrobertson.bsky.social/post/3mihjxlhyfk2o
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,460
    Carr said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    You may have already done this, but: your daughter is at uni - you can minimise her debt. That strikes me as a pretty tax efficient investment. Yes, technically, it'll no longer be your money - but it'll all end up going to her in the long run anyway.
    That's a nice idea, and thankyou for taking time t advise me, but I honestly think the global economic system is going to be totally overturned within five-fifteen years because REDACTED REDACTED so long term debt (and pensions and mortgages) really will not matter. We will either be dead, enslaved or living in wild abundance

    I want somewhere I can put my money, keep it pretty liquid, get a decent return in the short term. If such a thing is possible. It may not be

    Just spend your capital and say fuck it. If you were to reap a decent return in the short term, what help would it be when the short term is over and the Great Overturning is upon us? Or make a few hail Mary bets for the lolz if you feel a need to keep thinking about money.
    I’ve actually spent all I can I sensibly spend, in the last year

    I’ve bought Tsarist silver, £400 jackets, amazing wines, amber fossils, unique cacti, Chinese opium boxes, Trinitite, lovely linen shirts, more wine. Did I mention the wine?

    The south western corner of my sitting room now looks like this, with my self discovered antiquities (eg gobekli Tepe arrowhead) floating in vintage Murano glass on my lovely 1830s inlaid etagere



    I think if I spend any more I could justly be accused of “going over the top”. I can’t spend on travel as I get it all for free

    So I guess I must invest
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,826
    Leon said:

    Carr said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    You may have already done this, but: your daughter is at uni - you can minimise her debt. That strikes me as a pretty tax efficient investment. Yes, technically, it'll no longer be your money - but it'll all end up going to her in the long run anyway.
    That's a nice idea, and thankyou for taking time t advise me, but I honestly think the global economic system is going to be totally overturned within five-fifteen years because REDACTED REDACTED so long term debt (and pensions and mortgages) really will not matter. We will either be dead, enslaved or living in wild abundance

    I want somewhere I can put my money, keep it pretty liquid, get a decent return in the short term. If such a thing is possible. It may not be

    Just spend your capital and say fuck it. If you were to reap a decent return in the short term, what help would it be when the short term is over and the Great Overturning is upon us? Or make a few hail Mary bets for the lolz if you feel a need to keep thinking about money.
    I’ve actually spent all I can I sensibly spend, in the last year

    I’ve bought Tsarist silver, £400 jackets, amazing wines, amber fossils, unique cacti, Chinese opium boxes, Trinitite, lovely linen shirts, more wine. Did I mention the wine?

    The south western corner of my sitting room now looks like this, with my self discovered antiquities (eg gobekli Tepe arrowhead) floating in vintage Murano glass on my lovely 1830s inlaid etagere



    I think if I spend any more I could justly be accused of “going over the top”. I can’t spend on travel as I get it all for free

    So I guess I must invest
    Buy a racehorse.

    Who remembers the PB racehorse?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 59,019
    edited 8:42PM
    glw said:

    Sean_F said:

    The degree of hate which the MAGA’s have for long-standing allies, has seemingly come out of nowhere. And, it is so self-defeating. These are a people in decline, lashing out at any target in reach.

    Largely driven by the gut realisation that the American Century is ending. They are mad as hell about that, even if they couldn't put it into any coherent words. That's why you get all the anti China stuff, the desire to onshore manufacturing (even nearly worthless stuff), anti-trade tariffs that hurt Americans, rejection of new industries to try and hold on to things that are on the way out, denigration of Europe where they can clearly see many things are done better than in the US, and one last go at beating some of their historic antagonists.

    Donald Trump and MAGA is maybe the best thing to ever happen for China. China is going to absolutely lap the US now.
    America still has a chance to decisively turn away from all that Trump represents, in as little as two and a half years - maybe much sooner if they start impeaching him in November - that puts MAGA massively on the back foot in defending their direction of travel. So any actions we take should not be burning our bridges to America.

    But equally, America needs to know that if they do persist, then Europe and others will take a new path: a reproachment to China. A partner to whom we offer respect and a role to replace America, in partnership for a new century.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,824

    Leon said:

    Carr said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    You may have already done this, but: your daughter is at uni - you can minimise her debt. That strikes me as a pretty tax efficient investment. Yes, technically, it'll no longer be your money - but it'll all end up going to her in the long run anyway.
    That's a nice idea, and thankyou for taking time t advise me, but I honestly think the global economic system is going to be totally overturned within five-fifteen years because REDACTED REDACTED so long term debt (and pensions and mortgages) really will not matter. We will either be dead, enslaved or living in wild abundance

    I want somewhere I can put my money, keep it pretty liquid, get a decent return in the short term. If such a thing is possible. It may not be

    Just spend your capital and say fuck it. If you were to reap a decent return in the short term, what help would it be when the short term is over and the Great Overturning is upon us? Or make a few hail Mary bets for the lolz if you feel a need to keep thinking about money.
    I’ve actually spent all I can I sensibly spend, in the last year

    I’ve bought Tsarist silver, £400 jackets, amazing wines, amber fossils, unique cacti, Chinese opium boxes, Trinitite, lovely linen shirts, more wine. Did I mention the wine?

    The south western corner of my sitting room now looks like this, with my self discovered antiquities (eg gobekli Tepe arrowhead) floating in vintage Murano glass on my lovely 1830s inlaid etagere



    I think if I spend any more I could justly be accused of “going over the top”. I can’t spend on travel as I get it all for free

    So I guess I must invest
    Buy a racehorse.

    Who remembers the PB racehorse?
    Mr Smithson!!!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,084

    Who remembers the PB racehorse?

    Everyone that invested :(
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 135,205
    edited 8:44PM
    glw said:

    Sean_F said:

    The degree of hate which the MAGA’s have for long-standing allies, has seemingly come out of nowhere. And, it is so self-defeating. These are a people in decline, lashing out at any target in reach.

    Largely driven by the gut realisation that the American Century is ending. They are mad as hell about that, even if they couldn't put it into any coherent words. That's why you get all the anti China stuff, the desire to onshore manufacturing (even nearly worthless stuff), anti-trade tariffs that hurt Americans, rejection of new industries to try and hold on to things that are on the way out, denigration of Europe where they can clearly see many things are done better than in the US, and one last go at beating some of their historic antagonists.

    Donald Trump and MAGA is maybe the best thing to ever happen for China. China is going to absolutely lap the US now.
    Is that really true though? Even Biden had tariffs on Chinese imports as their low cost mass produced goods did undercut US manufacturing. Biden just had largely free trade with the rest of the world unlike Trump.

    China is still well behind the US in terms of tech industries and size of its financial services sector and strength of its universities and colleges and on gdp per capita behind us still let alone the US
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 59,019
    Scott_xP said:

    @unusualwhales.bsky.social‬

    Look at this.

    This wallet has just put an $800,000 bet on boots on the ground in Iran.

    They previously were right about the time US struck Iran first.

    Unusual.

    https://bsky.app/profile/duncanrobertson.bsky.social/post/3mihjxlhyfk2o

    Although, pesumably they made enough on the Iran strike timing to take more of a punt?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,500
    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    The peasants need to revolt like they did in the French, the Russian and the Iranian revolutions. The outcomes of each may not have been optimal after the revolutions but your remedy is no better.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,852
    Scott_xP said:

    @unusualwhales.bsky.social‬

    Look at this.

    This wallet has just put an $800,000 bet on boots on the ground in Iran.

    They previously were right about the time US struck Iran first.

    Unusual.

    https://bsky.app/profile/duncanrobertson.bsky.social/post/3mihjxlhyfk2o

    Who lays these bets? It is obviously an insiders market.

    Is it some sort of money laundering scam?

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,754

    glw said:

    Sean_F said:

    The degree of hate which the MAGA’s have for long-standing allies, has seemingly come out of nowhere. And, it is so self-defeating. These are a people in decline, lashing out at any target in reach.

    Largely driven by the gut realisation that the American Century is ending. They are mad as hell about that, even if they couldn't put it into any coherent words. That's why you get all the anti China stuff, the desire to onshore manufacturing (even nearly worthless stuff), anti-trade tariffs that hurt Americans, rejection of new industries to try and hold on to things that are on the way out, denigration of Europe where they can clearly see many things are done better than in the US, and one last go at beating some of their historic antagonists.

    Donald Trump and MAGA is maybe the best thing to ever happen for China. China is going to absolutely lap the US now.
    Which US presidency hasn’t been good for China?
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Although, candidly, that was mostly the Chinese fucking themselves over.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,821
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The sooner we move on from NATO the better .

    Call it delusion or denial Europe needs to wake up and get its own house in order . There’s no excuse . The public also need to wake up to the reality .

    Seeing European politicians stand there pretending NATO still exists is now just embarrassing.

    Does anyone seriously think the US would honour Article 5 ?

    And it’s also tragic seeing European politicians making themselves look pathetically weak by suggesting we’re all fxcked if the US pulls out of NATO.

    Europe is not some third world poverty sticken place . If Europe wants to it can act and can find the resources to do so.


    With respect that is delusional

    US military arms and aircraft are intrinsically tied into European defence and it would take decades to change that

    If there’s the will it can be done much more quickly .The delusion is the attitude of European leaders who think just playing for time might see a more pro NATO administration.

    As a French politician suggested European defence can’t be determined by swing voters in Wisconsin every 4 years .
    You're happy as a leftwinger to accept trading welfare for guns. Realistically that's the choice even with tax rises to boot!
    This "rearm in a hurry, whatever it takes, existential war is coming to the UK" risks becoming a groupthink imo. The potential for poor and expensive decisions is huge. I hope we retain a degree of composure about it all.
    It may be that, but the chances of any government actually doing anything to make our defences stronger is pretty much zero.
    Defence spending will be increasing but I hope it's properly considered, ie matched to actual risk and threat.
    It's the actual effectiveness of our spend that is most of concern. We have no Navy, and yet we spend billions.
    Illustrating what I mean. There's a big risk of wasting a lot of money. 'Welfare v guns' is a misleading framing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,460
    edited 8:52PM
    glw said:

    Sean_F said:

    The degree of hate which the MAGA’s have for long-standing allies, has seemingly come out of nowhere. And, it is so self-defeating. These are a people in decline, lashing out at any target in reach.

    Largely driven by the gut realisation that the American Century is ending. They are mad as hell about that, even if they couldn't put it into any coherent words. That's why you get all the anti China stuff, the desire to onshore manufacturing (even nearly worthless stuff), anti-trade tariffs that hurt Americans, rejection of new industries to try and hold on to things that are on the way out, denigration of Europe where they can clearly see many things are done better than in the US, and one last go at beating some of their historic antagonists.

    Donald Trump and MAGA is maybe the best thing to ever happen for China. China is going to absolutely lap the US now.
    Very astute

    But, you forget one really important factor. The mad Woke American Left. It is impossible to understand the American Right, in all its craziness, without accepting that there are equally lunatic Americans on the Left, who genuinely hate America, are insane over trans, openly confess they want to murder Republicans, and are completely obsessed with skin colour to an extent that might embarrass a Grand Duke of the KKK. The MAGA right are, in part, a product of the mad ideas of the Woke Left, which emerged from academe in the 1960s and have metastasised horribly ever since

    This is a duet of lunacies, a double helix of delirium, and it descends
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,997

    Leon said:

    Carr said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    You may have already done this, but: your daughter is at uni - you can minimise her debt. That strikes me as a pretty tax efficient investment. Yes, technically, it'll no longer be your money - but it'll all end up going to her in the long run anyway.
    That's a nice idea, and thankyou for taking time t advise me, but I honestly think the global economic system is going to be totally overturned within five-fifteen years because REDACTED REDACTED so long term debt (and pensions and mortgages) really will not matter. We will either be dead, enslaved or living in wild abundance

    I want somewhere I can put my money, keep it pretty liquid, get a decent return in the short term. If such a thing is possible. It may not be

    Just spend your capital and say fuck it. If you were to reap a decent return in the short term, what help would it be when the short term is over and the Great Overturning is upon us? Or make a few hail Mary bets for the lolz if you feel a need to keep thinking about money.
    I’ve actually spent all I can I sensibly spend, in the last year

    I’ve bought Tsarist silver, £400 jackets, amazing wines, amber fossils, unique cacti, Chinese opium boxes, Trinitite, lovely linen shirts, more wine. Did I mention the wine?

    The south western corner of my sitting room now looks like this, with my self discovered antiquities (eg gobekli Tepe arrowhead) floating in vintage Murano glass on my lovely 1830s inlaid etagere



    I think if I spend any more I could justly be accused of “going over the top”. I can’t spend on travel as I get it all for free

    So I guess I must invest
    Buy a racehorse.

    Who remembers the PB racehorse?
    Mr Smithson!!!
    "If one has some spare cash, where does one put it?"

    Given the fertiliser situation: wheat futures?

    Other grains and vegetables are also available.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,460

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    The peasants need to revolt like they did in the French, the Russian and the Iranian revolutions. The outcomes of each may not have been optimal after the revolutions but your remedy is no better.
    Yeah, great advice

    French Revolution: led to the Terror, and then was reversed

    Russian Revolution: epochal disaster for the world

    Iranian Revolution: almost as bad, and much worse for Iranians

    Otherwise, good choices. I note you didn't choose Britain's various revolutions, particularly 1688, which is surely a preferable model, in every way
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,882
    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off
  • glwglw Posts: 10,871

    But equally, America needs to know that if they do persist, then Europe and others will take a new path: a reproachment to China. A partner to whom we offer respect and a role to replace America, in partnership for a new century.

    My ideal outcome would be for every democracy not run by a crook or madman to team up to present a united front to not threaten China but to offer an alternative. So whilst Starmer is right to desire more cooperation with the EU we also need to look for much broader alliances with countries all round the world. America can be left to stew.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,879

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    May be called off.
    The countdown continues as they try to establish communication with the flight termination system in order to test it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,055
    rcs1000 said:

    nico67 said:

    The sooner we move on from NATO the better .

    Call it delusion or denial Europe needs to wake up and get its own house in order . There’s no excuse . The public also need to wake up to the reality .

    Seeing European politicians stand there pretending NATO still exists is now just embarrassing.

    Does anyone seriously think the US would honour Article 5 ?

    And it’s also tragic seeing European politicians making themselves look pathetically weak by suggesting we’re all fxcked if the US pulls out of NATO.

    Europe is not some third world poverty sticken place . If Europe wants to it can act and can find the resources to do so.


    With respect that is delusional

    US military arms and aircraft are intrinsically tied into European defence and it would take decades to change that

    That remind me of the 70 year old who started an architecture degree.

    Someone said: "you're 70 years old, and it'll take eight years or so to become an architect, why are you doing this?"

    And he said "well, I'd better be getting on with it then."

    Europe (and the UK and Canada) needs to get serious about diversifying defence procurement. That means we need to build up our capabilities. And that we need to work with South Korea, and Taiwan, and Australia, and France, and Switzerland, and Sweden, and others.

    This is not Europe vs the US. This is a recognition that our long-term assumption of a constant ally is no longer the case. And yes, we probably will continue to buy things from US defence manufacturers. But we cannot be tied at the hip for defence procurement any more.
    I recall, during coalition government, nuclear power stations got vetoed on the grounds that they would be ready until a ridiculously far off date.

    2024, IIRC
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,500
    edited 9:00PM
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    The peasants need to revolt like they did in the French, the Russian and the Iranian revolutions. The outcomes of each may not have been optimal after the revolutions but your remedy is no better.
    Yeah, great advice

    French Revolution: led to the Terror, and then was reversed

    Russian Revolution: epochal disaster for the world

    Iranian Revolution: almost as bad, and much worse for Iranians

    Otherwise, good choices. I note you didn't choose Britain's various revolutions, particularly 1688, which is surely a preferable model, in every way
    You clearly didn't read or more likely understand that I pointed out that these revolutions didn't yield the appropriate results, but Max's view that we should pay for fun things like defence, but the offset on that is widespread destitution is also ridiculous.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,925

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    Yeah looks like it
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,997
    The world's biggest Taco is being baked and delivered live on tv later this evening.

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,879
    edited 9:08PM
    glw said:

    But equally, America needs to know that if they do persist, then Europe and others will take a new path: a reproachment to China. A partner to whom we offer respect and a role to replace America, in partnership for a new century.

    My ideal outcome would be for every democracy not run by a crook or madman to team up to present a united front to not threaten China but to offer an alternative. So whilst Starmer is right to desire more cooperation with the EU we also need to look for much broader alliances with countries all round the world. America can be left to stew.
    Even democracy cannot guard against a crook or madman getting to the top. The UN looks powerless.

    If we survive the next fifty years I suspect the Holy AI will be guarding and looking after us all.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,460

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    The peasants need to revolt like they did in the French, the Russian and the Iranian revolutions. The outcomes of each may not have been optimal after the revolutions but your remedy is no better.
    Yeah, great advice

    French Revolution: led to the Terror, and then was reversed

    Russian Revolution: epochal disaster for the world

    Iranian Revolution: almost as bad, and much worse for Iranians

    Otherwise, good choices. I note you didn't choose Britain's various revolutions, particularly 1688, which is surely a preferable model, in every way
    You clearly didn't read or more likely understand that I pointed out that these revolutions didn't yield the appropriate results, but Max's view that we should pay for fun things like defence, but the offset on that is widespread destitution is also ridiculous.
    No, I did read it, you said the "outcomes of these revolutions may not have been optimal", which is like saying "for the Jewish people, the Holocaust was certainly not a vacation"

    It is offensively dim - but then, this is you
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,055

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    Yeah looks like it
    The current thinking is they can verify the FTS before the end of the window.
  • CarrCarr Posts: 20
    edited 9:09PM
    Leon said:

    Carr said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    You may have already done this, but: your daughter is at uni - you can minimise her debt. That strikes me as a pretty tax efficient investment. Yes, technically, it'll no longer be your money - but it'll all end up going to her in the long run anyway.
    That's a nice idea, and thankyou for taking time t advise me, but I honestly think the global economic system is going to be totally overturned within five-fifteen years because REDACTED REDACTED so long term debt (and pensions and mortgages) really will not matter. We will either be dead, enslaved or living in wild abundance

    I want somewhere I can put my money, keep it pretty liquid, get a decent return in the short term. If such a thing is possible. It may not be

    Just spend your capital and say fuck it. If you were to reap a decent return in the short term, what help would it be when the short term is over and the Great Overturning is upon us? Or make a few hail Mary bets for the lolz if you feel a need to keep thinking about money.
    I’ve actually spent all I can I sensibly spend, in the last year

    I’ve bought Tsarist silver, £400 jackets, amazing wines, amber fossils, unique cacti, Chinese opium boxes, Trinitite, lovely linen shirts, more wine. Did I mention the wine?

    The south western corner of my sitting room now looks like this, with my self discovered antiquities (eg gobekli Tepe arrowhead) floating in vintage Murano glass on my lovely 1830s inlaid etagere



    I think if I spend any more I could justly be accused of “going over the top”. I can’t spend on travel as I get it all for free

    So I guess I must invest
    It's not either-or, spend or invest. That's centripaternal logic.

    Good to hear you've been spending it. But why worry about what happens to money that you feel you can't spend? I get it that you don't want to lose it, but by the time the Overturning occurs, will the difference between 40% more and 40% less matter at all? The question I'd be asking is what asset is most likely to stay above 60% of its current value in real terms. Answer might be gold. (Actually I think it will go up in value, probably by a lot. But in any case a drop of 40% is far less likely than it is for shares, bonds, flats, cafes, or scaffolding companies.)
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,217
    edited 9:09PM

    rcs1000 said:

    nico67 said:

    The sooner we move on from NATO the better .

    Call it delusion or denial Europe needs to wake up and get its own house in order . There’s no excuse . The public also need to wake up to the reality .

    Seeing European politicians stand there pretending NATO still exists is now just embarrassing.

    Does anyone seriously think the US would honour Article 5 ?

    And it’s also tragic seeing European politicians making themselves look pathetically weak by suggesting we’re all fxcked if the US pulls out of NATO.

    Europe is not some third world poverty sticken place . If Europe wants to it can act and can find the resources to do so.


    With respect that is delusional

    US military arms and aircraft are intrinsically tied into European defence and it would take decades to change that

    That remind me of the 70 year old who started an architecture degree.

    Someone said: "you're 70 years old, and it'll take eight years or so to become an architect, why are you doing this?"

    And he said "well, I'd better be getting on with it then."

    Europe (and the UK and Canada) needs to get serious about diversifying defence procurement. That means we need to build up our capabilities. And that we need to work with South Korea, and Taiwan, and Australia, and France, and Switzerland, and Sweden, and others.

    This is not Europe vs the US. This is a recognition that our long-term assumption of a constant ally is no longer the case. And yes, we probably will continue to buy things from US defence manufacturers. But we cannot be tied at the hip for defence procurement any more.
    I recall, during coalition government, nuclear power stations got vetoed on the grounds that they would be ready until a ridiculously far off date.

    2024, IIRC
    I think your memory may be deceiving you. It was in 2013 that Ed Davey gave the go-ahead for Hinkley Point C, arguing that it was essential for replacing old plants and to reduce our reliance on foreign gas.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,500
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    The peasants need to revolt like they did in the French, the Russian and the Iranian revolutions. The outcomes of each may not have been optimal after the revolutions but your remedy is no better.
    Yeah, great advice

    French Revolution: led to the Terror, and then was reversed

    Russian Revolution: epochal disaster for the world

    Iranian Revolution: almost as bad, and much worse for Iranians

    Otherwise, good choices. I note you didn't choose Britain's various revolutions, particularly 1688, which is surely a preferable model, in every way
    You clearly didn't read or more likely understand that I pointed out that these revolutions didn't yield the appropriate results, but Max's view that we should pay for fun things like defence, but the offset on that is widespread destitution is also ridiculous.
    No, I did read it, you said the "outcomes of these revolutions may not have been optimal", which is like saying "for the Jewish people, the Holocaust was certainly not a vacation"

    It is offensively dim - but then, this is you
    No you got caught out through not being very bright and now you are aggressively doubling down.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,925

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    Yeah looks like it
    The current thinking is they can verify the FTS before the end of the window.
    Fingers crossed, but you can't cut corners with a safety critical system like that.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,764

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    We'll have none of this bolshy defeatist talk!
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,879

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    Yeah looks like it
    The current thinking is they can verify the FTS before the end of the window.
    Fingers crossed, but you can't cut corners with a safety critical system like that.
    Looks like all systems go again.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,460
    edited 9:13PM
    Carr said:

    Leon said:

    Carr said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    You may have already done this, but: your daughter is at uni - you can minimise her debt. That strikes me as a pretty tax efficient investment. Yes, technically, it'll no longer be your money - but it'll all end up going to her in the long run anyway.
    That's a nice idea, and thankyou for taking time t advise me, but I honestly think the global economic system is going to be totally overturned within five-fifteen years because REDACTED REDACTED so long term debt (and pensions and mortgages) really will not matter. We will either be dead, enslaved or living in wild abundance

    I want somewhere I can put my money, keep it pretty liquid, get a decent return in the short term. If such a thing is possible. It may not be

    Just spend your capital and say fuck it. If you were to reap a decent return in the short term, what help would it be when the short term is over and the Great Overturning is upon us? Or make a few hail Mary bets for the lolz if you feel a need to keep thinking about money.
    I’ve actually spent all I can I sensibly spend, in the last year

    I’ve bought Tsarist silver, £400 jackets, amazing wines, amber fossils, unique cacti, Chinese opium boxes, Trinitite, lovely linen shirts, more wine. Did I mention the wine?

    The south western corner of my sitting room now looks like this, with my self discovered antiquities (eg gobekli Tepe arrowhead) floating in vintage Murano glass on my lovely 1830s inlaid etagere



    I think if I spend any more I could justly be accused of “going over the top”. I can’t spend on travel as I get it all for free

    So I guess I must invest
    Good to hear you've been spending it. But why worry about what happens to money that you feel you can't spend? I get it that you don't want to lose it, but by the time the Overturning occurs, will the difference between 40% more and 40% less matter at all? The question I'd be asking is what asset is most likely to stay above 60% of its current value in real terms. Answer might be gold. (Actually I think it will go up in value, probably by a lot. But in any case a drop of 40% is far less likely than it is for shares, bonds, flats, cafes, or scaffolding companies.)
    Good question, but I don't think gold is the answer, even tho I do respect your logic

    Hmm. It is a puzzler. If I had squillions - which I do not - I would buy a beautiful and DEFENSIBLE seaside property. In, say, Cornwall, or Brittany, or maybe northern California. You get the beauty and utility but also the bunker

    I might just buy more wine. Hic
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 135,205

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    The peasants need to revolt like they did in the French, the Russian and the Iranian revolutions. The outcomes of each may not have been optimal after the revolutions but your remedy is no better.
    The UK has one of the biggest welfare states in the world and the top 10% only own 43% of UK wealth not 90% (whereas in the US now the top 10% own 67% of the nation's wealth)

    https://equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk/
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,065
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    The peasants need to revolt like they did in the French, the Russian and the Iranian revolutions. The outcomes of each may not have been optimal after the revolutions but your remedy is no better.
    Yeah, great advice

    French Revolution: led to the Terror, and then was reversed

    Russian Revolution: epochal disaster for the world

    Iranian Revolution: almost as bad, and much worse for Iranians

    Otherwise, good choices. I note you didn't choose Britain's various revolutions, particularly 1688, which is surely a preferable model, in every way
    A better argument starts from the observation that revolutions are generally bad things for all involved. Which is why the smart thing to is to throw the lower orders sufficient bones that they never feel the need to start one. The 19th and 20th century plutocrats seemed to understand that better than their sucessors in our time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,460

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    The peasants need to revolt like they did in the French, the Russian and the Iranian revolutions. The outcomes of each may not have been optimal after the revolutions but your remedy is no better.
    Yeah, great advice

    French Revolution: led to the Terror, and then was reversed

    Russian Revolution: epochal disaster for the world

    Iranian Revolution: almost as bad, and much worse for Iranians

    Otherwise, good choices. I note you didn't choose Britain's various revolutions, particularly 1688, which is surely a preferable model, in every way
    You clearly didn't read or more likely understand that I pointed out that these revolutions didn't yield the appropriate results, but Max's view that we should pay for fun things like defence, but the offset on that is widespread destitution is also ridiculous.
    No, I did read it, you said the "outcomes of these revolutions may not have been optimal", which is like saying "for the Jewish people, the Holocaust was certainly not a vacation"

    It is offensively dim - but then, this is you
    No you got caught out through not being very bright and now you are aggressively doubling down.

    "Aggressively doubling down" = "correctly quoting exactly what you said"

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,705
    Let's be honest, Starmer is doing quite well at the moment in difficult circumstances. He seems more statesmanlike.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,076
    Leon said:

    Carr said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    You may have already done this, but: your daughter is at uni - you can minimise her debt. That strikes me as a pretty tax efficient investment. Yes, technically, it'll no longer be your money - but it'll all end up going to her in the long run anyway.
    That's a nice idea, and thankyou for taking time t advise me, but I honestly think the global economic system is going to be totally overturned within five-fifteen years because REDACTED REDACTED so long term debt (and pensions and mortgages) really will not matter. We will either be dead, enslaved or living in wild abundance

    I want somewhere I can put my money, keep it pretty liquid, get a decent return in the short term. If such a thing is possible. It may not be

    Just spend your capital and say fuck it. If you were to reap a decent return in the short term, what help would it be when the short term is over and the Great Overturning is upon us? Or make a few hail Mary bets for the lolz if you feel a need to keep thinking about money.
    I’ve actually spent all I can I sensibly spend, in the last year

    I’ve bought Tsarist silver, £400 jackets, amazing wines, amber fossils, unique cacti, Chinese opium boxes, Trinitite, lovely linen shirts, more wine. Did I mention the wine?

    The south western corner of my sitting room now looks like this, with my self discovered antiquities (eg gobekli Tepe arrowhead) floating in vintage Murano glass on my lovely 1830s inlaid etagere



    I think if I spend any more I could justly be accused of “going over the top”. I can’t spend on travel as I get it all for free

    So I guess I must invest
    Invest in small GB startup companies.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,084
    AnneJGP said:

    Invest in small GB startup companies.

    Crowdcube if you want to try that. Tax efficient
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,925

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    We'll have none of this bolshy defeatist talk!
    Please! I love America!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,997
    Andy_JS said:

    Let's be honest, Starmer is doing quite well at the moment in difficult circumstances. He seems more statesmanlike.

    The foreign and defence stuff seems to suit him.

    Domestic and especially economics - nope.

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,879
    edited 9:25PM

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    The peasants need to revolt like they did in the French, the Russian and the Iranian revolutions. The outcomes of each may not have been optimal after the revolutions but your remedy is no better.
    Yeah, great advice

    French Revolution: led to the Terror, and then was reversed

    Russian Revolution: epochal disaster for the world

    Iranian Revolution: almost as bad, and much worse for Iranians

    Otherwise, good choices. I note you didn't choose Britain's various revolutions, particularly 1688, which is surely a preferable model, in every way
    A better argument starts from the observation that revolutions are generally bad things for all involved. Which is why the smart thing to is to throw the lower orders sufficient bones that they never feel the need to start one. The 19th and 20th century plutocrats seemed to understand that better than their sucessors in our time.
    Revolutions are generally not started by the lower classes who are too busy trying to survive.
    They are started by the frustrated middle class and merchant class who have the time, money and ability to organise against the elite.
    See French and American revolutions.
    The exception is the Peasants Revolt in England led by Wat Tyler.
    Lawyers generally play a central role in revolutions.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,273

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    Snip.
    We live in that society now.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,638

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    We'll have none of this bolshy defeatist talk!
    Please! I love America!
    "Technical issue resolved and launch is a 'go'"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4g4ygw0r02t
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,879

    Andy_JS said:

    Let's be honest, Starmer is doing quite well at the moment in difficult circumstances. He seems more statesmanlike.

    The foreign and defence stuff seems to suit him.

    Domestic and especially economics - nope.

    He'd make an excellent Foreign Secretary.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,638

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    Snip.
    We live in that society now.
    We live in this society:

    "By 2023, the richest 50 families in the UK held more wealth than half of the UK population, comprising 34.1 million people."

    https://equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk/#incomeinequality
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,754

    rcs1000 said:

    nico67 said:

    The sooner we move on from NATO the better .

    Call it delusion or denial Europe needs to wake up and get its own house in order . There’s no excuse . The public also need to wake up to the reality .

    Seeing European politicians stand there pretending NATO still exists is now just embarrassing.

    Does anyone seriously think the US would honour Article 5 ?

    And it’s also tragic seeing European politicians making themselves look pathetically weak by suggesting we’re all fxcked if the US pulls out of NATO.

    Europe is not some third world poverty sticken place . If Europe wants to it can act and can find the resources to do so.


    With respect that is delusional

    US military arms and aircraft are intrinsically tied into European defence and it would take decades to change that

    That remind me of the 70 year old who started an architecture degree.

    Someone said: "you're 70 years old, and it'll take eight years or so to become an architect, why are you doing this?"

    And he said "well, I'd better be getting on with it then."

    Europe (and the UK and Canada) needs to get serious about diversifying defence procurement. That means we need to build up our capabilities. And that we need to work with South Korea, and Taiwan, and Australia, and France, and Switzerland, and Sweden, and others.

    This is not Europe vs the US. This is a recognition that our long-term assumption of a constant ally is no longer the case. And yes, we probably will continue to buy things from US defence manufacturers. But we cannot be tied at the hip for defence procurement any more.
    I recall, during coalition government, nuclear power stations got vetoed on the grounds that they would be ready until a ridiculously far off date.

    2024, IIRC
    To be fair, the idea that nuclear power plants would be delivered on time was a little farfetched
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,925

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    We'll have none of this bolshy defeatist talk!
    Please! I love America!
    "Technical issue resolved and launch is a 'go'"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4g4ygw0r02t
    I know, I'm watching it live.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,682
    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Let's be honest, Starmer is doing quite well at the moment in difficult circumstances. He seems more statesmanlike.

    The foreign and defence stuff seems to suit him.

    Domestic and especially economics - nope.

    He'd make an excellent Foreign Secretary.
    Should we be invaded by the US then I'm sure he'll have the negotiating table firmly deployed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,769
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    The peasants need to revolt like they did in the French, the Russian and the Iranian revolutions. The outcomes of each may not have been optimal after the revolutions but your remedy is no better.
    Yeah, great advice

    French Revolution: led to the Terror, and then was reversed

    Russian Revolution: epochal disaster for the world

    Iranian Revolution: almost as bad, and much worse for Iranians

    Otherwise, good choices. I note you didn't choose Britain's various revolutions, particularly 1688, which is surely a preferable model, in every way
    You clearly didn't read or more likely understand that I pointed out that these revolutions didn't yield the appropriate results, but Max's view that we should pay for fun things like defence, but the offset on that is widespread destitution is also ridiculous.
    No, I did read it, you said the "outcomes of these revolutions may not have been optimal", which is like saying "for the Jewish people, the Holocaust was certainly not a vacation"

    It is offensively dim - but then, this is you
    No you got caught out through not being very bright and now you are aggressively doubling down.

    "Aggressively doubling down" = "correctly quoting exactly what you said"

    Are you unfamiliar with litotes ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,769
    JD Vance using a photo of a Methodist church on the cover of his book about CATHOLICISM is some real Veep-level shit.
    https://x.com/MikeNellis/status/2039368324086141173
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,705
    Technical problem resolved, according to Newsnight.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,065
    Leon said:

    Carr said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    PB FINANCE BRAINIACS

    If one has some spare cash, where does one put it? I find myself slightly unexpectedly flush, but with the world in turmoil, shares seem risky, bonds are also maybe risky (who knows?), gold is crazy, Bitcoin is even crazier. So, where?!

    You may have already done this, but: your daughter is at uni - you can minimise her debt. That strikes me as a pretty tax efficient investment. Yes, technically, it'll no longer be your money - but it'll all end up going to her in the long run anyway.
    That's a nice idea, and thankyou for taking time t advise me, but I honestly think the global economic system is going to be totally overturned within five-fifteen years because REDACTED REDACTED so long term debt (and pensions and mortgages) really will not matter. We will either be dead, enslaved or living in wild abundance

    I want somewhere I can put my money, keep it pretty liquid, get a decent return in the short term. If such a thing is possible. It may not be

    Just spend your capital and say fuck it. If you were to reap a decent return in the short term, what help would it be when the short term is over and the Great Overturning is upon us? Or make a few hail Mary bets for the lolz if you feel a need to keep thinking about money.
    I’ve actually spent all I can I sensibly spend, in the last year

    I’ve bought Tsarist silver, £400 jackets, amazing wines, amber fossils, unique cacti, Chinese opium boxes, Trinitite, lovely linen shirts, more wine. Did I mention the wine?

    The south western corner of my sitting room now looks like this, with my self discovered antiquities (eg gobekli Tepe arrowhead) floating in vintage Murano glass on my lovely 1830s inlaid etagere



    I think if I spend any more I could justly be accused of “going over the top”. I can’t spend on travel as I get it all for free

    So I guess I must invest
    Turning the question round a bit...

    I'm going to assume (perhaps wrongly/unfairly, in which case apologies in advance) that you don't particularly need the money, or the investment returns flowing from it, and that it's unlikely that anyone you're responsible for will either.

    So then the question becomes- what has the best chance of bringing you most sustainable joy? It might be a friend for Spidey. Or the sort of Angel-investing in a startup.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,762
    edited 9:38PM
    If you want to improve your health, invest in a dog. A corgi would be a good choice if you want to demonstrate your patriotism, too.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,638
    Anyone else nervous at the thought that the second launch of Artemis is going to send a crew of four around the moon?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,997
    I mean, just for FFS.


    Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK

    🚨 NEW: Nigel Farage is set to announce Reform UK will keep the state pension triple lock

    [@thetimes]
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,475
    edited 9:39PM
    I’m dubious about this big speech from Trump.

    Given his obsession with being the centre of attention he is making this speech on the same night as the Artemis launch.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,638

    If you want to improve your health, invest in a dog. A corgi would be a good choice if you want to demonstrate your patriotism, too.

    @Leon's more likely to eat a dog than walk it tbf.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,769
    AKA bombing civilians.

    Israel intensifies Lebanon attacks and hits areas not in Hezbollah's control
    https://x.com/BBCWorld/status/2039290915878039750

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,997

    If you want to improve your health, invest in a dog. A corgi would be a good choice if you want to demonstrate your patriotism, too.

    @Leon's more likely to eat a dog than walk it tbf.
    Whose gonna feed the poor mut when he is away 300 days of the year?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,613

    I mean, just for FFS.


    Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK

    🚨 NEW: Nigel Farage is set to announce Reform UK will keep the state pension triple lock

    [@thetimes]

    Takes the chance I'll vote Reform from 10% down to 2%.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,997
    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance using a photo of a Methodist church on the cover of his book about CATHOLICISM is some real Veep-level shit.
    https://x.com/MikeNellis/status/2039368324086141173

    I'm so old I remember when there were questions about whether a catholic should become president.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,155
    carnforth said:

    I mean, just for FFS.


    Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK

    🚨 NEW: Nigel Farage is set to announce Reform UK will keep the state pension triple lock

    [@thetimes]

    Takes the chance I'll vote Reform from 10% down to 2%.
    Think about your typical reform voter though - turkeys don't vote for Christmas, pensioners don't vote to reduce their pension..
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,595

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    We'll have none of this bolshy defeatist talk!
    Please! I love America!
    "Technical issue resolved and launch is a 'go'"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4g4ygw0r02t
    I know, I'm watching it live.
    Where are you watching it? I'm looking for an alternative that is a bit less painful to listen to than Sky News.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,997

    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    3m
    Is there a political party I should vote for if I actually want to change anything about the UK's macroeconomic management?


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    3m
    Is there any party that favours re-doing/rejigging/re-arranging/reconceptualising/re-moulding the UK's macroeconomic policy? I might be interested in voting for *that* party. All the current ones seem to have essentially the same macroeconomic policy.

    https://x.com/andrew_lilico/status/2039458484555481345
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,997

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    We'll have none of this bolshy defeatist talk!
    Please! I love America!
    "Technical issue resolved and launch is a 'go'"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4g4ygw0r02t
    I know, I'm watching it live.
    Where are you watching it? I'm looking for an alternative that is a bit less painful to listen to than Sky News.
    Nasa has own live feed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3kR2KK8TEs
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,595

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    We'll have none of this bolshy defeatist talk!
    Please! I love America!
    "Technical issue resolved and launch is a 'go'"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4g4ygw0r02t
    I know, I'm watching it live.
    Where are you watching it? I'm looking for an alternative that is a bit less painful to listen to than Sky News.
    Nasa has own live feed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3kR2KK8TEs
    Ah, brilliant, thank you.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,744
    Barnesian said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    The peasants need to revolt like they did in the French, the Russian and the Iranian revolutions. The outcomes of each may not have been optimal after the revolutions but your remedy is no better.
    Yeah, great advice

    French Revolution: led to the Terror, and then was reversed

    Russian Revolution: epochal disaster for the world

    Iranian Revolution: almost as bad, and much worse for Iranians

    Otherwise, good choices. I note you didn't choose Britain's various revolutions, particularly 1688, which is surely a preferable model, in every way
    A better argument starts from the observation that revolutions are generally bad things for all involved. Which is why the smart thing to is to throw the lower orders sufficient bones that they never feel the need to start one. The 19th and 20th century plutocrats seemed to understand that better than their sucessors in our time.
    Revolutions are generally not started by the lower classes who are too busy trying to survive.
    They are started by the frustrated middle class and merchant class who have the time, money and ability to organise against the elite.
    See French and American revolutions.
    The exception is the Peasants Revolt in England led by Wat Tyler.
    Lawyers generally play a central role in revolutions.
    If lawyers are involved, no wonder we have so few revolutions. By the time they set up an inquiry, call witnesses and write a report recommending that Lessons be Learned, the crisis leading to the revolution will be over.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,925

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    We'll have none of this bolshy defeatist talk!
    Please! I love America!
    "Technical issue resolved and launch is a 'go'"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4g4ygw0r02t
    I know, I'm watching it live.
    Where are you watching it? I'm looking for an alternative that is a bit less painful to listen to than Sky News.
    BBC news have a live feed on their website.

    Again, not perfect.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,925

    I mean, just for FFS.


    Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK

    🚨 NEW: Nigel Farage is set to announce Reform UK will keep the state pension triple lock

    [@thetimes]

    Reform won't reform anything.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,769

    Barnesian said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    The peasants need to revolt like they did in the French, the Russian and the Iranian revolutions. The outcomes of each may not have been optimal after the revolutions but your remedy is no better.
    Yeah, great advice

    French Revolution: led to the Terror, and then was reversed

    Russian Revolution: epochal disaster for the world

    Iranian Revolution: almost as bad, and much worse for Iranians

    Otherwise, good choices. I note you didn't choose Britain's various revolutions, particularly 1688, which is surely a preferable model, in every way
    A better argument starts from the observation that revolutions are generally bad things for all involved. Which is why the smart thing to is to throw the lower orders sufficient bones that they never feel the need to start one. The 19th and 20th century plutocrats seemed to understand that better than their sucessors in our time.
    Revolutions are generally not started by the lower classes who are too busy trying to survive.
    They are started by the frustrated middle class and merchant class who have the time, money and ability to organise against the elite.
    See French and American revolutions.
    The exception is the Peasants Revolt in England led by Wat Tyler.
    Lawyers generally play a central role in revolutions.
    If lawyers are involved, no wonder we have so few revolutions. By the time they set up an inquiry, call witnesses and write a report recommending that Lessons be Learned, the crisis leading to the revolution will be over.
    Robespierre and Danton were lawyers.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,925

    Looks like nasa moon mission will be called off

    We'll have none of this bolshy defeatist talk!
    Please! I love America!
    "Technical issue resolved and launch is a 'go'"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4g4ygw0r02t
    I know, I'm watching it live.
    Where are you watching it? I'm looking for an alternative that is a bit less painful to listen to than Sky News.
    Nasa has own live feed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3kR2KK8TEs
    Ah, brilliant, thank you.
    I would watch that, but I cannot tolerate how Americans pronounce maths.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,055

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to cut £40bn from welfare and build a properly independent nuclear deterrent and properly fund defence. We can no longer rely on the US regardless of who is in the White House. The Trident programme made sense in an era when the UK and US were inseparable in terms of our global aims but now that is no longer the case. We cannot be beholden to what I would term as an informal ally for such a crucial part of our defence posture.

    It's a truly sad state of affairs when the US and UK can no longer say they have the same outlook on the world regardless of who occupies No 10 or the White House. That partnership has been the cornerstone of the post war consensus and now it seems to be broken beyond repair. I think America is going to quickly realise it's a cold world out there and even though it maintains defence primacy, life without friends and allies is much tougher than MAGA and other isolationists realise. Thralldom may suit some countries but I think we need to start planning for a world in which we will need to defend our own interests without an implicit guarantee from American military might.

    Welfare and pensions are not affordable in this new era and both will need substantial cuts.

    On you final point we can't just let the old, the infirmed, the disabled, the poor to live in abject poverty. We have to offer voluntary euthanasia like we would an old dog or cat at the end of their life.

    Alternatively the World and more specifically Britain could operate a society where the top one percent don't own 90% of wealth, or whatever the figure is these days.

    The peasants need to revolt like they did in the French, the Russian and the Iranian revolutions. The outcomes of each may not have been optimal after the revolutions but your remedy is no better.
    Yeah, great advice

    French Revolution: led to the Terror, and then was reversed

    Russian Revolution: epochal disaster for the world

    Iranian Revolution: almost as bad, and much worse for Iranians

    Otherwise, good choices. I note you didn't choose Britain's various revolutions, particularly 1688, which is surely a preferable model, in every way
    A better argument starts from the observation that revolutions are generally bad things for all involved. Which is why the smart thing to is to throw the lower orders sufficient bones that they never feel the need to start one. The 19th and 20th century plutocrats seemed to understand that better than their sucessors in our time.
    We have revolutions all the time.

    Every 5 or so years, we overthrow the government.

    Instead of a violent revolution that kills a serious percentage of the population and causes misery for the rest for decades, we call a removal van.

    That’s the advantage of democracy - not that there is some metaphysical reason that the politicians picked are superior. Just that we can get rid of them.
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