As someone says top o' the thread, Labour should be hiring gurus to win the Scottish referendum, not the bloody GE.
If Scotland votes YES, Ed Miliband will lose 40 seats, either by 2015 or by 2016 (along with much of his party's talent and money) and no spinmeister is gonna make up for that.
It is bizarre how Labour are trotting along as if everything is fine in the North. Reminds me of Game of Thrones...
It is people who voted Labour in 1997, 2001, 2005 and 2010 in Scotland, some of whom voted SNP in 2011 who will determine the IndyRef.
And yet, somehow, some on here seem to think that its Cameron who is best placed to persuade these people.......
Yep, that would be me and I have acknowledged the problem. But he is the PM and the leader of the Labour party is an English dork who does not seem to be interested.
There is another, who, unlike yourself, is profoundly ignorant of things Scottish, yet can only blame Cameron when clearly its Labour voters and Labour campaigning that's the problem.
The last poll had Scots Tories 85% 'no' - I'm not sure there is much more that can be done with them. Its the DE Labour voter, who, as you astutely observe, a North London Policy wonk is not best equipped to reach.....why hasn't Miliband called up John Reid? I expect that's Cameron's fault too.......
Also, more Tories say they will vote 'no' (82%) than SNP say they will vote 'Yes' (55%).......
Do you want to work out which is the bigger number.....55% of 491,386, or 82% of 412,855.....
I note you use the false UK GE numbers for your calculations. How does that work out using the real numbers from Holyrood 2011. 55% of 902,915 or 85% of 276,652
Why are they 'false'? The numbers are accurate - just because they don't suit your case does not make them 'false'
The UK GE decides things on a UK-wide basis - as will the independence referendum - 2011 Holyrood is purely an internal Scottish matter - we can debate which set of numbers are more appropriate to use, without you resorting to lies, surely?
As someone says top o' the thread, Labour should be hiring gurus to win the Scottish referendum, not the bloody GE.
If Scotland votes YES, Ed Miliband will lose 40 seats, either by 2015 or by 2016 (along with much of his party's talent and money) and no spinmeister is gonna make up for that.
It is bizarre how Labour are trotting along as if everything is fine in the North. Reminds me of Game of Thrones...
It is people who voted Labour in 1997, 2001, 2005 and 2010 in Scotland, some of whom voted SNP in 2011 who will determine the IndyRef.
And yet, somehow, some on here seem to think that its Cameron who is best placed to persuade these people.......
Yep, that would be me and I have acknowledged the problem. But he is the PM and the leader of the Labour party is an English dork who does not seem to be interested.
There is another, who, unlike yourself, is profoundly ignorant of things Scottish, yet can only blame Cameron when clearly its Labour voters and Labour campaigning that's the problem.
The last poll had Scots Tories 85% 'no' - I'm not sure there is much more that can be done with them. Its the DE Labour voter, who, as you astutely observe, a North London Policy wonk is not best equipped to reach.....why hasn't Miliband called up John Reid? I expect that's Cameron's fault too.......
Also, more Tories say they will vote 'no' (82%) than SNP say they will vote 'Yes' (55%).......
Do you want to work out which is the bigger number.....55% of 491,386, or 82% of 412,855.....
I note you use the false UK GE numbers for your calculations. How does that work out using the real numbers from Holyrood 2011. 55% of 902,915 or 85% of 276,652
Why are they 'false'? The numbers are accurate - just because they don't suit your case does not make them 'false'
The UK GE decides things on a UK-wide basis - as will the independence referendum - 2011 Holyrood is purely an internal Scottish matter - we can debate which set of numbers are more appropriate to use, without you resorting to lies, surely?
Were your 55% & 85% figures based on an indy poll using Westminster or Holyrood past votes?
I am sceptical of the value of these fly in gurus, particularly from very different political cultures.
Surely Miliband would be better off getting Peter Mandelson back in the saddle. The architect of New Labour who also denied Cameron a majority in 2010 would be a far more useful asset.
The fact that Labour seem to prefer foreigners does speak to me of fundamental internal divisions. Getting in external help is a sign of weakness. Companies do it when they know they need to undertake actions that they cannot get backing for internally.
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
The thing about 0207 London, at least, is that when there is a fall the bounce-back is always pretty swift - so opportunities are fleeting but the rewards are huge. It's great swathes of 0208 and the surrounds that are always worst and longest hit.
There is no such thing as 0207 and 0208 London. The code for London is 020.
There are leading 8s in inner London and leading 3s.
There is no boundary between the two and a mix all over.
The code for London is simply 020.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Perception is more powerful than reality - the 0207 and 0208 'divide' is still widely perceived. Though I guess 0208 number owners are more prone to dispute it......
Well most people just assumed 0171 became 0207 and 0181, 0208 didn't they? Everyone knows that 0207 is shorthand for Inner London, and 0208 is Outer, petty to quibble.
As someone says top o' the thread, Labour should be hiring gurus to win the Scottish referendum, not the bloody GE.
If Scotland votes YES, Ed Miliband will lose 40 seats, either by 2015 or by 2016 (along with much of his party's talent and money) and no spinmeister is gonna make up for that.
It is bizarre how Labour are trotting along as if everything is fine in the North. Reminds me of Game of Thrones...
It is people who voted Labour in 1997, 2001, 2005 and 2010 in Scotland, some of whom voted SNP in 2011 who will determine the IndyRef.
And yet, somehow, some on here seem to think that its Cameron who is best placed to persuade these people.......
Yep, that would be me and I have acknowledged the problem. But he is the PM and the leader of the Labour party is an English dork who does not seem to be interested.
Also, more Tories say they will vote 'no' (82%) than SNP say they will vote 'Yes' (55%).......
Do you want to work out which is the bigger number.....55% of 491,386, or 82% of 412,855.....
I note you use the false UK GE numbers for your calculations. How does that work out using the real numbers from Holyrood 2011. 55% of 902,915 or 85% of 276,652
Why are they 'false'? The numbers are accurate - just because they don't suit your case does not make them 'false'
The UK GE decides things on a UK-wide basis - as will the independence referendum - 2011 Holyrood is purely an internal Scottish matter - we can debate which set of numbers are more appropriate to use, without you resorting to lies, surely?
Were your 55% & 85% figures based on an indy poll using Westminster or Holyrood past votes?
They only ask the Holyrood VI number - but, as I argue below, the UK GE, in my view is a better analogue for the Indy ref.
In either case, dismissing over 400,000 fellow Scots as 'nothing' reeks of arrogance and hubris.
I am sceptical of the value of these fly in gurus, particularly from very different political cultures.
Surely Miliband would be better off getting Peter Mandelson back in the saddle. The architect of New Labour who also denied Cameron a majority in 2010 would be a far more useful asset.
The fact that Labour seem to prefer foreigners does speak to me of fundamental internal divisions. Getting in external help is a sign of weakness. Companies do it when they know they need to undertake actions that they cannot get backing for internally.
Hear hear. Maybe occasionally the people brought in can have a big impact, but their plans will never directly translate to a nation to which they are unfamiliar, and it really just feels like bringing in such gurus is just a way to give political consultants a nice payday and a holiday during either an off season in their home patch or when they are no longer central to things back home, or they are literally just popping in to spout some platitudes.
I could well be wrong, but it does activate my sneer sensor.
I enjoy your teasing and I hope the Scots do well if they do vote yes.
But I have a slight fear that it will all go wrong .... breakdown of law and order, Scots living in caves and eating each other (they do have form) resulting in a Scot-zombie apocalypse heading South by 2018.
I have an ex-colleague who is a Jambo, so I like to point out that Hibernian are my tip for success next year. A team of Scottish workmen led by an English overlord - the natural order of things.
One article I read suggested Alexrod was only working on this part time and would be staying in the US (aside from flying in for the odd meeting). I believe the Tories own Obama adviser is the same.
I really wonder how much value that adds, especially in a "market" that is alien to them.
I am sceptical of the value of these fly in gurus, particularly from very different political cultures.
Surely Miliband would be better off getting Peter Mandelson back in the saddle. The architect of New Labour who also denied Cameron a majority in 2010 would be a far more useful asset.
The fact that Labour seem to prefer foreigners does speak to me of fundamental internal divisions. Getting in external help is a sign of weakness. Companies do it when they know they need to undertake actions that they cannot get backing for internally.
Hear hear. Maybe occasionally the people brought in can have a big impact, but their plans will never directly translate to a nation to which they are unfamiliar, and it really just feels like bringing in such gurus is just a way to give political consultants a nice payday and a holiday during either an off season in their home patch or when they are no longer central to things back home, or they are literally just popping in to spout some platitudes.
I could well be wrong, but it does activate my sneer sensor.
As someone says top o' the thread, Labour should be hiring gurus to win the Scottish referendum, not the bloody GE.
If Scotland votes YES, Ed Miliband will lose 40 seats, either by 2015 or by 2016 (along with much of his party's talent and money) and no spinmeister is gonna make up for that.
It is bizarre how Labour are trotting along as if everything is fine in the North. Reminds me of Game of Thrones...
It is people who voted Labour in 1997, 2001, 2005 and 2010 in Scotland, some of whom voted SNP in 2011 who will determine the IndyRef.
And yet, somehow, some on here seem to think that its Cameron who is best placed to persuade these people.......
Yep, that would be me and I have acknowledged the problem. But he is the PM and the leader of the Labour party is an English dork who does not seem to be interested.
There is another, who, unlike yourself, is profoundly ignorant of things Scottish, yet can only blame Cameron when clearly its Labour voters and Labour campaigning that's the problem.
The last poll had Scots Tories 85% 'no' - I'm not sure there is much more that can be done with them. Its the DE Labour voter, who, as you astutely observe, a North London Policy wonk is not best equipped to reach.....why hasn't Miliband called up John Reid? I expect that's Cameron's fault too.......
Also, more Tories say they will vote 'no' (82%) than SNP say they will vote 'Yes' (55%).......
Do you want to work out which is the bigger number.....55% of 491,386, or 82% of 412,855.....
I note you use the false UK GE numbers for your calculations. How does that work out using the real numbers from Holyrood 2011. 55% of 902,915 or 85% of 276,652
Why are they 'false'? The numbers are accurate - just because they don't suit your case does not make them 'false'
The UK GE decides things on a UK-wide basis - as will the independence referendum - 2011 Holyrood is purely an internal Scottish matter - we can debate which set of numbers are more appropriate to use, without you resorting to lies, surely?
It is however NOT a UK vote , so it would seem more reasonable to use the numbers that reflect the vote, ie Scottish numbers. I will assume it was a genuine unionist error not thinking outside the unionist box.
They only ask the Holyrood VI number - but, as I argue below, the UK GE, in my view is a better analogue for the Indy ref.
In either case, dismissing over 400,000 fellow Scots as 'nothing' reeks of arrogance and hubris.
I think I hear the muffled crump of a petard going off.
I wouldn't argue they're 'nothing', just relatively unimportant in a psephological or campaigning sense. Also, since polls suggest that 85% consists almost entirely of those who think Scotland couldn't succeed as an independent country, I'm not sure there's much intellectual nourishment there as far as a debate about Scotland's future goes.
Kudos to you for reconsidering your views. I feel I have been alone on this board in vocally supporting QE and a higher inflation level, to much ridicule. A similar thing happened when I said it would be a smart idea to invest in London property a couple years ago. I feel in a similar position on Ukraine right now. However, after the Eurozone disaster proved I was correct on the currency and the very serious establishment consensus wrong, I feel a lot less qualms about making my case strongly.
*cough*
I noted the beginnings of the London property boom, three years ago, here on pb. That was a year after I bought my Camden flat.
The test for any pb prognosticator is not to predict rising London house prices, an imbecile can do that. It is to predict a London property crash. Will it happen? It surely must. The insanity cannot continue...
Well that's the thing. This bubble isn't being driven by normal logic it's being driven by oligarchs stashing their loot in London property because globalization is unraveling. Economically it doesn't make any sense at all because Britain isn't a safe haven by a very long way but then when you figure in that globalization means there are no safe havens - because when it goes wrong everywhere goes wrong at once - then it boils down to *relatively* safe instead and although that relative safety is built on the England that is being erased it's not all gone yet.
They only ask the Holyrood VI number - but, as I argue below, the UK GE, in my view is a better analogue for the Indy ref.
In either case, dismissing over 400,000 fellow Scots as 'nothing' reeks of arrogance and hubris.
I think I hear the muffled crump of a petard going off.
I wouldn't argue they're 'nothing', just relatively unimportant in a psephological or campaigning sense.
That seems like a reasonable position to hold, even if others might dispute it - but of course this argument started because someone did argue they were 'next to nothing' despite being in their hundreds of thousands (be it 276k or 400+k). Happily, we appear to have found a middle ground.
It is however NOT a UK vote , so it would seem more reasonable to use the numbers that reflect the vote, ie Scottish numbers. I will assume it was a genuine unionist error not thinking outside the unionist box.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree - it affects Scotland's place in the UK - but you don't have to resort to abuse to do so....
The London bubble is being driven by non UK factors that could reverse quite quickly, particularly if a high tax and high interest rate policy took power here, or if things looked more secure elsewhere with the Euro crisis abating and stability in parts of the East.
It looks as if it has a little longer to run at present.
Kudos to you for reconsidering your views. I feel I have been alone on this board in vocally supporting QE and a higher inflation level, to much ridicule. A similar thing happened when I said it would be a smart idea to invest in London property a couple years ago. I feel in a similar position on Ukraine right now. However, after the Eurozone disaster proved I was correct on the currency and the very serious establishment consensus wrong, I feel a lot less qualms about making my case strongly.
*cough*
I noted the beginnings of the London property boom, three years ago, here on pb. That was a year after I bought my Camden flat.
The test for any pb prognosticator is not to predict rising London house prices, an imbecile can do that. It is to predict a London property crash. Will it happen? It surely must. The insanity cannot continue...
Well that's the thing. This bubble isn't being driven by normal logic it's being driven by oligarchs stashing their loot in London property because globalization is unraveling. Economically it doesn't make any sense at all because Britain isn't a safe haven by a very long way but then when you figure in that globalization means there are no safe havens - because when it goes wrong everywhere goes wrong at once - then it boils down to *relatively* safe instead and although that relative safety is built on the England that is being erased it's not all gone yet.
SeanT & Morris, the lack of support that Lab are giving to the No campaign is bewildering. If Douglas Alexander and all the Lab campaign team are the best campaigners that they can muster (no reason to doubt that), then why are they not fully engaged with the No campaign which is months away rather than the GE next year? Dougie is actually Scottish! Losing the referendum is far more important to the long term prospects of the Labour party than losing GE2015. Yet they are under funding the No campaign. Bizarre. But this is a mistake I am happy about.
I think there are deep subconscious forces at work here.
A lot of Labour people are instinctively anti-British, that is to say they abhor and dislike many things we see as quintessentially British - the monarchy, the flag, the army, the history of rampant conquest, the Empire, posh men in top hats, Eton, the anthem, the City of London, the Royal Navy, our nuclear deterrent, the lion and the unicorn, duffing up the French, eating loads of beef.
Note how, whenever lefties are challenged to produce something good about Britain, it is the NHS they adduce. That's all they can think of. The NHS.
Therefore, many of them consciously or subconsciously WANT the YES voters to win, as they believe it will be a final deathblow to Britain's delusions of grandeur, and a kick in the nuts for Tories. They secretly hate Britishness and they are desperate to see it broken into pieces.
However they are also smart enough to realise that a YES vote is, very clearly, an existential threat to Labour down south.
Thus their immobility. They consciously want NO to win, yet subconsciously they want YES to win. The psychic struggle produces complete paralysis.
They only ask the Holyrood VI number - but, as I argue below, the UK GE, in my view is a better analogue for the Indy ref.
In either case, dismissing over 400,000 fellow Scots as 'nothing' reeks of arrogance and hubris.
I wouldn't argue they're 'nothing', just relatively unimportant in a psephological or campaigning sense. Also, since polls suggest that 85% consists almost entirely of those who think Scotland couldn't succeed as an independent country
Unlike malcolm.....
Do you have polling to support "those who think Scotland couldn't succeed as an independent country"?
Of course, it could be that they think they are 'Better Together'.....
Whatever their motives, they are convinced of the case for the Union, (more than SNP supporters are convinced of the case for independence) and sending someone up to convince them further seems a pretty pointless exercise.....
Its the DE Labour voter where the battle will be fought and won.....or lost.....
The London bubble is being driven by non UK factors that could reverse quite quickly, particularly if a high tax and high interest rate policy took power here, or if things looked more secure elsewhere with the Euro crisis abating and stability in parts of the East.
It looks as if it has a little longer to run at present.
Kudos to you for reconsidering your views. I feel I have been alone on this board in vocally supporting QE and a higher inflation level, to much ridicule. A similar thing happened when I said it would be a smart idea to invest in London property a couple years ago. I feel in a similar position on Ukraine right now. However, after the Eurozone disaster proved I was correct on the currency and the very serious establishment consensus wrong, I feel a lot less qualms about making my case strongly.
*cough*
I noted the beginnings of the London property boom, three years ago, here on pb. That was a year after I bought my Camden flat.
The test for any pb prognosticator is not to predict rising London house prices, an imbecile can do that. It is to predict a London property crash. Will it happen? It surely must. The insanity cannot continue...
Well that's the thing. This bubble isn't being driven by normal logic it's being driven by oligarchs stashing their loot in London property because globalization is unraveling. Economically it doesn't make any sense at all because Britain isn't a safe haven by a very long way but then when you figure in that globalization means there are no safe havens - because when it goes wrong everywhere goes wrong at once - then it boils down to *relatively* safe instead and although that relative safety is built on the England that is being erased it's not all gone yet.
Yeah that's the thing. The logic of it requires calculating everything that is going to happen and the resulting relative safe haven-ness of different places. I think **** knows is the only realistic prediction.
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
The thing about 0207 London, at least, is that when there is a fall the bounce-back is always pretty swift - so opportunities are fleeting but the rewards are huge. It's great swathes of 0208 and the surrounds that are always worst and longest hit.
There is no such thing as 0207 and 0208 London. The code for London is 020.
There are leading 8s in inner London and leading 3s.
There is no boundary between the two and a mix all over.
The code for London is simply 020.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Or someone who lives in 0208 territory and has a chip on their shoulder about it...
I'm in an "0207 area" but I agree with Bobafett, it's redundant to think of 0207 or 0208. Indeed the only place I have recently heard this archaism is on pb.
Seriously, when did you last hear someone say "ooh, he lives in an 0208 district"? - no one says this any more, ever.
Postcode snobbery is, however, rampant as always - though also changing, as E becomes fashionable.
its just an old fashioned way of saying Inner London and Outer London though. To pull someone up saying its not factually correct is a bit petty, that's the point I was making
Kudos to you for reconsidering your views. I feel I have been alone on this board in vocally supporting QE and a higher inflation level, to much ridicule. A similar thing happened when I said it would be a smart idea to invest in London property a couple years ago. I feel in a similar position on Ukraine right now. However, after the Eurozone disaster proved I was correct on the currency and the very serious establishment consensus wrong, I feel a lot less qualms about making my case strongly.
*cough*
I noted the beginnings of the London property boom, three years ago, here on pb. That was a year after I bought my Camden flat.
The test for any pb prognosticator is not to predict rising London house prices, an imbecile can do that. It is to predict a London property crash. Will it happen? It surely must. The insanity cannot continue...
Well that's the thing. This bubble isn't being driven by normal logic it's being driven by oligarchs stashing their loot in London property because globalization is unraveling. Economically it doesn't make any sense at all because Britain isn't a safe haven by a very long way but then when you figure in that globalization means there are no safe havens - because when it goes wrong everywhere goes wrong at once - then it boils down to *relatively* safe instead and although that relative safety is built on the England that is being erased it's not all gone yet.
No, it's not.
I posted a detailed response with facts and figures a couple of days ago.
You ignored it.
A lot of the demand comes from foreign investors, but not foreign oligarchs. Oligarchs buy companies, not shares or BTL flats. They have a specific impact in certain areas of London, but this is not a meaningful sum of money in the scheme of things.
They only ask the Holyrood VI number - but, as I argue below, the UK GE, in my view is a better analogue for the Indy ref.
In either case, dismissing over 400,000 fellow Scots as 'nothing' reeks of arrogance and hubris.
I wouldn't argue they're 'nothing', just relatively unimportant in a psephological or campaigning sense. Also, since polls suggest that 85% consists almost entirely of those who think Scotland couldn't succeed as an independent country
Unlike malcolm.....
Do you have polling to support "those who think Scotland couldn't succeed as an independent country"?
Of course, it could be that they think they are 'Better Together'.....
Whatever their motives, they are convinced of the case for the Union, (more than SNP supporters are convinced of the case for independence) and sending someone up to convince them further seems a pretty pointless exercise.....
Its the DE Labour voter where the battle will be fought and won.....or lost.....
The 'notorious' SNP Panelbase which was presumably so skewed that it should have converted even SCons into rays of Indy sunshine.
Q1. Do you agree or disagree with the following statement: "Scotland could be a successful, independent country"
I think that the only certainty is that the bubble will deflate in time, the question being when and how.
I thought in the late eighties that when no one could afford to buy the house that they lived in the crash could not be far off. We are at that stage again now. The seemingly perpetual low interest rates do keep the illusion going quite well. Even a quarter % rise would seem a major shock, but it has to happen at some point.
The London bubble is being driven by non UK factors that could reverse quite quickly, particularly if a high tax and high interest rate policy took power here, or if things looked more secure elsewhere with the Euro crisis abating and stability in parts of the East.
It looks as if it has a little longer to run at present.
Kudos to you for reconsidering your views. I feel I have been alone on this board in vocally supporting QE and a higher inflation level, to much ridicule. A similar thing happened when I said it would be a smart idea to invest in London property a couple years ago. I feel in a similar position on Ukraine right now. However, after the Eurozone disaster proved I was correct on the currency and the very serious establishment consensus wrong, I feel a lot less qualms about making my case strongly.
*cough*
I noted the beginnings of the London property boom, three years ago, here on pb. That was a year after I bought my Camden flat.
The test for any pb prognosticator is not to predict rising London house prices, an imbecile can do that. It is to predict a London property crash. Will it happen? It surely must. The insanity cannot continue...
Well that's the thing. This bubble isn't being driven by normal logic it's being driven by oligarchs stashing their loot in London property
Yeah that's the thing. The logic of it requires calculating everything that is going to happen and the resulting relative safe haven-ness of different places. I think **** knows is the only realistic prediction.
They only ask the Holyrood VI number - but, as I argue below, the UK GE, in my view is a better analogue for the Indy ref.
In either case, dismissing over 400,000 fellow Scots as 'nothing' reeks of arrogance and hubris.
I wouldn't argue they're 'nothing', just relatively unimportant in a psephological or campaigning sense. Also, since polls suggest that 85% consists almost entirely of those who think Scotland couldn't succeed as an independent country
Unlike malcolm.....
Do you have polling to support "those who think Scotland couldn't succeed as an independent country"?
Of course, it could be that they think they are 'Better Together'.....
Whatever their motives, they are convinced of the case for the Union, (more than SNP supporters are convinced of the case for independence) and sending someone up to convince them further seems a pretty pointless exercise.....
Its the DE Labour voter where the battle will be fought and won.....or lost.....
The 'notorious' SNP Panelbase
Good grief! If even that couldn't shift them......(which further makes the point on no need to persuade them!)
Interestingly the same demographic skew on attitude to independence we saw in the TNS:
Net agree (Do you think Scotland could be a successful Independent Country?): AB: +5 C1: -3 C2: +16 DE: +34
Take the imposter, our PM. Now we are to believe that he's a committed Christian all of a sudden. This after he has delivered the coup de grace to marriage.
That Ruthless Truth guy really nails that in: "Dearly Beloved" at:
Doesn't Cyprus have lots of Russian cash? If so, (and I could be entirely wrong), wouldn't that mean it could be hit if more sanctions are imposed due to the Ukraine situation?
Cyprus is a good example of the seemingly unconnected things that could effect the London property market. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cyprus banks getting squeezed a while back led to more money being pumped into London.
"Oh yes: one other crisis coming that I didn't mention. At some point people will realise that the Japanese government is bust."
Given that people have been predicting this for twenty years, I think it's so priced in that if and when they do eventually default, it won't have too much of an effect. The theory of Abenomics seems to be the best thing they can do, even if the liberalisation arrow isn't being done in practice, and even if the guy himself is so daft he's right by accident.
Well I can't find any value Morris. I tend to wait until the grid's been decided and ignore the weather (we all have to have our own style). Do you always bet on qualifying?
Kudos to you for reconsidering your views. I feel I have been alone on this board in vocally supporting QE and a higher inflation level, to much ridicule. A similar thing happened when I said it would be a smart idea to invest in London property a couple years ago. I feel in a similar position on Ukraine right now. However, after the Eurozone disaster proved I was correct on the currency and the very serious establishment consensus wrong, I feel a lot less qualms about making my case strongly.
*cough*
I noted the beginnings of the London property boom, three years ago, here on pb. That was a year after I bought my Camden flat.
The test for any pb prognosticator is not to predict rising London house prices, an imbecile can do that. It is to predict a London property crash. Will it happen? It surely must. The insanity cannot continue...
Well that's the thing. This bubble isn't being driven by normal logic it's being driven by oligarchs stashing their loot in London property because globalization is unraveling. Economically it doesn't make any sense at all because Britain isn't a safe haven by a very long way but then when you figure in that globalization means there are no safe havens - because when it goes wrong everywhere goes wrong at once - then it boils down to *relatively* safe instead and although that relative safety is built on the England that is being erased it's not all gone yet.
No, it's not.
I posted a detailed response with facts and figures a couple of days ago.
You ignored it.
A lot of the demand comes from foreign investors, but not foreign oligarchs. Oligarchs buy companies, not shares or BTL flats. They have a specific impact in certain areas of London, but this is not a meaningful sum of money in the scheme of things.
Take the imposter, our PM. Now we are to believe that he's a committed Christian all of a sudden. This after he has delivered the coup de grace to marriage.
l
I wasn't aware marriage was the defining aspect of christianity, one which no-one has ever disagreed about (sidenote - an amusing debate in one of the Cromwellian parliaments was over how successive parliaments had introduced their own views on how marriage ceremonies should be conducted, that they had I think three different marriage laws on the books and people were confused). It's always been a broad church, hence there being so many denominations across the world - what one section thinks is fundamental to being a true christian is not shared universally by other christians.
And even if it was the coup de grace to marriage, that literally means 'finishing blow', in which case marriage was apparently on its last legs, and that cannot be laid at Cameron's door.
I often think that if christianity cannot handle and survive the changes the modern world have brought to the fore, it doesn't speak well as to its stregnth - christianity emerged from nothing and has endured for thousands of years, but apparently secularism and homosexual equality is too much to confront/defeat/accept/survive? The faithful can rest assured in their eternal truths and know that passing trends will be just that, if they wish.
I must say Cameron's sudden interest in faith has been a bit surprising, though despite not being a christian myself I have no problem with the heritage of this nation as christian being emphasised.
Take the imposter, our PM. Now we are to believe that he's a committed Christian all of a sudden. This after he has delivered the coup de grace to marriage.
That Ruthless Truth guy really nails that in: "Dearly Beloved" at:
The premise of that article is that "sometimes that message will be out of step with the times, but the faithful won’t mind that because they are after all eternal truths not a matter of fashion" but in no way is the Book of Common Prayer an eternal truth.
It was first written in 1549, and Wikipedia succinctly describes its history: "The 1549 book was soon succeeded by a more reformed revision in 1552 under the same editorial hand, that of Thomas Cranmer, Archbishop of Canterbury. It was used only for a few months, as after Edward VI's death in 1553, his half-sister Mary I restored Roman Catholic worship. She herself died in 1558, and in 1559 Elizabeth I reintroduced the 1552 book with a few modifications to make it acceptable to more traditionally minded worshippers, notably the inclusion of the words of administration from the 1549 Communion Service alongside those of 1552. In 1604, James I ordered some further changes, the most significant of these being the addition to the Catechism of a section on the Sacraments. Following the tumultuous events leading to and including the English Civil War, another major revision was published in 1662 (Church of England 1662). That edition has remained the official prayer book of the Church of England."
If ever their was a history that belied a human hand in its execution, rather than a godly one, this must surely be it.
The Eastern Bloc from Vilnius to Vladivostok is a much better place than it was thirty years ago. Setting aside the question of whether western polling methods give valid indications of public opinion in the area, there would undoubtedly be little support for a return to centrally planned communist economy even in the deepest recesses of the bloc.
I lived through the wild East's transition to its current state, literally in its heart for a period, and held development responsibilities for the whole area in a multinational. I have seen first hand and in a very small way participated in these changes. I was one of the first westerners to commission opinion polling (not political) in Moscow, so I am aware of both its value and limitations in the area.
The Russian economy thrives because all Russia needs to do to earn a fat foreign currency surplus is dig and sell. The success of this digging has moved from arthritic isolation under Soviet Rule, through rapid expansion under oligarchical thieves to its current global strength under semi-market driven state control.
As long as Russia can maintain its place in the global economy as an energy and minerals supplier, incentives for it's government to develop competitive advantage in other sectors will be limited. Yet this hasn't stopped the gradual development of an urban middle class which is demanding more democracy, wider economic development and a fairer distribution of the proceeds of success. These demands are slow in coming and will take time to mature but herein lies real promise and the foundations for Russia's deeper and wider global integration.
Putin may not be to everyone's taste but he has provided Russia with stability, increasing wealth and standards of living, recovered national pride and a more open and globally integrated country. The Sochi Olympics and G8 meeting were designed to be his apotheosis. Instead he was landed with the Ukrainian crisis and he is now lashing out in response.
Russians are never easy to negotiate or do business with. They resist being patronised and never start from the assumption that western practices and values are right for their own country. Yes, they will enjoy, admire and maybe even envy the luxuries, both spiritual and material, of Western success but only when on holiday or in exile. Western powers, whether governmental or private sector, get frustrated by the delays, dangers and difficulties of trying to do business in Moscow. It is far quicker and simpler to secure the fawning admiration and support of the impoverished and powerless periphery.
But the rewards from the periphery are diminishing and the risks ever increasing. It is time for Kerry, Hague and whoever replaces Ashton to switch their attention from Kiev to Moscow. This is where your "pragmatic realities" can be addressed. It may take longer to achieve and be a more turbulent passage, but the rewards of such efforts will be immeasurably greater for all.
Only Americans have stupid names like Axelrod. Cameron must respond by employing Dr Ventmore Spleen, and Farage with the famous US psephologist Chad Hangcounter. I predict a torrent of Ed sniffing the air presidential spots
This after he has delivered the coup de grace to marriage.
Sadly people are still getting married, the war against it must now go to the next level.
Obviously the next step is to make gay marriage compulsory!
And the fools have not seen this coming!
Too tame - people might just come to accept sexless marriage to their best same sex mate, heterosexual life partners are all the rage on buddy cop tv shows and the like.
Only bestial marriage will put the final nail in the coffin, as well as bringing in the death of morality we are all aiming for.
Apologies to all traditional marriage believers - I know you have your sincerely held beliefs to which you are entitled to hold.
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
The thing about 0207 London, at least, is that when there is a fall the bounce-back is always pretty swift - so opportunities are fleeting but the rewards are huge. It's great swathes of 0208 and the surrounds that are always worst and longest hit.
There is no such thing as 0207 and 0208 London. The code for London is 020.
There are leading 8s in inner London and leading 3s.
There is no boundary between the two and a mix all over.
The code for London is simply 020.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Or someone who lives in 0208 territory and has a chip on their shoulder about it...
I'm in an "0207 area" but I agree with Bobafett, it's redundant to think of 0207 or 0208. Indeed the only place I have recently heard this archaism is on pb.
Seriously, when did you last hear someone say "ooh, he lives in an 0208 district"? - no one says this any more, ever.
Postcode snobbery is, however, rampant as always - though also changing, as E becomes fashionable.
its just an old fashioned way of saying Inner London and Outer London though. To pull someone up saying its not factually correct is a bit petty, that's the point I was making
It's not petty because it's a useless measure and no-one ever uses it, except SO et al on here - who don't live in London. It's a completely useless measure - my office is on the edge of Zone 1 yet has a leading 8. (It does not have a "0208 phone number" as there is no such thing - the code for London is, and always has been, simply 020)
I am sceptical of the value of these fly in gurus, particularly from very different political cultures.
Surely Miliband would be better off getting Peter Mandelson back in the saddle. The architect of New Labour who also denied Cameron a majority in 2010 would be a far more useful asset.
The fact that Labour seem to prefer foreigners does speak to me of fundamental internal divisions. Getting in external help is a sign of weakness. Companies do it when they know they need to undertake actions that they cannot get backing for internally.
We had a discussion about this upthread and I think it was Carlotta who said that one of the "fibs of our time" was "I'm from Head Office and I'm here to help."
Up there in the incredulity stakes with "The cheque's in the post!"
There was literally a whole Seinfeld episode about the number thing.
Seinfeld>Friends
I hated Seinfeld. Maybe it's because I grew up watching Friends first, but I just couldn't stand Jerry Seinfeld, which was a bit of a problem in enjoying the show as a whole.
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
The thing about 0207 London, at least, is that when there is a fall the bounce-back is always pretty swift - so opportunities are fleeting but the rewards are huge. It's great swathes of 0208 and the surrounds that are always worst and longest hit.
There is no such thing as 0207 and 0208 London. The code for London is 020.
There are leading 8s in inner London and leading 3s.
There is no boundary between the two and a mix all over.
The code for London is simply 020.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Perception is more powerful than reality - the 0207 and 0208 'divide' is still widely perceived. Though I guess 0208 number owners are more prone to dispute it......
"Is still widely perceived"
No. It's not. Loads of Central London phone numbers have leading 8s or 3s. Like my office number, for example. It only seems to be "widely perceived" by out of towners on PB.
Hmm, according to that map I fall at the confluence of self satisfied hippies and depressing twats, or possibly self satisfied twats and depressing hippies. I will profess to being offended at that.
Both main parties are going into the election campaign from a position of weakness, the Tories at core and Labour only a few points above 2010 with the benefit of opposition. Says a lot about the state of British politics at the moment, given that the Lib vote has disintegrated. Can either of them deliver a proposal that swings the pendulum? Is 'job not yet done, were getting there' enough? Is 'Job not done, time for change in the middle of it' enough? It's really difficult to see a way out of this that results in a working majority.
Hmm, according to that map I fall at the confluence of self satisfied hippies and depressing twats, or possibly self satisfied twats and depressing hippies. I will profess to being offended at that.
I appear to be stuck between Hippies and Drunk sailors - Antifrank must be so envious..!
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
The thing about 0207 London, at least, is that when there is a fall the bounce-back is always pretty swift - so opportunities are fleeting but the rewards are huge. It's great swathes of 0208 and the surrounds that are always worst and longest hit.
.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Or someone who lives in 0208 territory and has a chip on their shoulder about it...
I'm in an "0207 area" but I agree with Bobafett, it's redundant to think of 0207 or 0208. Indeed the only place I have recently heard this archaism is on pb.
Seriously, when did you last hear someone say "ooh, he lives in an 0208 district"? - no one says this any more, ever.
Postcode snobbery is, however, rampant as always - though also changing, as E becomes fashionable.
its just an old fashioned way of saying Inner London and Outer London though. To pull someone up saying its not factually correct is a bit petty, that's the point I was making
It's not petty because it's a useless measure and no-one ever uses it, except SO et al on here - who don't live in London. It's a completely useless measure - my office is on the edge of Zone 1 yet has a leading 8. (It does not have a "0208 phone number" as there is no such thing - the code for London is, and always has been, simply 020)
You re completely missing the point, as you always seem to with London.
Before you lived there, I assume, Outer London was 0181 (before that 081), and inner London was 0171 (071). The codes where changed to 020 7 and 020 8 a few years ago, and now seem to have merged more, but anyone who is over 18 and lived in or worked in London would recognise the distinction between 0207 part of town and 0208.
It may not be factually correct anymore, but neither are many things that locals use in terminology
By picking people up on it you are showing you aren't really a Londoner, else youd know not to
Hmm, according to that map I fall at the confluence of self satisfied hippies and depressing twats, or possibly self satisfied twats and depressing hippies. I will profess to being offended at that.
In the middle of "fake tan" and "arrogant w*nkers"
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
The thing about 0207 London, at least, is that when there is a fall the bounce-back is always pretty swift - so opportunities are fleeting but the rewards are huge. It's great swathes of 0208 and the surrounds that are always worst and longest hit.
There is no such thing as 0207 and 0208 London. The code for London is 020.
There are leading 8s in inner London and leading 3s.
There is no boundary between the two and a mix all over.
The code for London is simply 020.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Perception is more powerful than reality - the 0207 and 0208 'divide' is still widely perceived. Though I guess 0208 number owners are more prone to dispute it......
"Is still widely perceived". It only seems to be "widely perceived" by out of towners on PB.
Guilty as charged to pied a terre in Swiss Cottage, St Johns Wood and Covent Garden....all 0207.....do I detect an 0208 chip on someone's shoulder?
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
The thing about 0207 London, at least, is that when there is a fall the bounce-back is always pretty swift - so opportunities are fleeting but the rewards are huge. It's great swathes of 0208 and the surrounds that are always worst and longest hit.
.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Or someone who lives in 0208 territory and has a chip on their shoulder about it...
I'm in an "0207 area" but I agree with Bobafett, it's redundant to think of 0207 or 0208. Indeed the only place I have recently heard this archaism is on pb.
Seriously, when did you last hear someone say "ooh, he lives in an 0208 district"? - no one says this any more, ever.
Postcode snobbery is, however, rampant as always - though also changing, as E becomes fashionable.
e is no such thing - the code for London is, and always has been, simply 020)
You re completely missing the point, as you always seem to with London.
Before you lived there, I assume, Outer London was 0181 (before that 081), and inner London was 0171 (071). The codes where changed to 020 7 and 020 8 a few years ago, and now seem to have merged more, but anyone who is over 18 and lived in or worked in London would recognise the distinction between 0207 part of town and 0208.
It may not be factually correct anymore, but neither are many things that locals use in terminology
By picking people up on it you are showing you aren't really a Londoner, else youd know not to
In which 'phone code area' (sic) are/were these districts? Kilburn Acton Holland Park Ladbroke Grove Leyton Brixton Stockwell Battersea
If your definition is any good, you should be able to tell me.
Very funny. I love "shit cats". And old men sliding down hills in bathtubs. "Arrogant wankers" also seems fair comment on Londoners, speaking as an arrogant wanker and a Londoner.
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Or someone who lives in 0208 territory and has a chip on their shoulder about it...
I'm in an "0207 area" but I agree with Bobafett, it's redundant to think of 0207 or 0208. Indeed the only place I have recently heard this archaism is on pb.
Seriously, when did you last hear someone say "ooh, he lives in an 0208 district"? - no one says this any more, ever.
Postcode snobbery is, however, rampant as always - though also changing, as E becomes fashionable.
e is no such thing - the code for London is, and always has been, simply 020)
You re completely missing the point, as you always seem to with London.
Before you lived there, I assume, Outer London was 0181 (before that 081), and inner London was 0171 (071). The codes where changed to 020 7 and 020 8 a few years ago, and now seem to have merged more, but anyone who is over 18 and lived in or worked in London would recognise the distinction between 0207 part of town and 0208.
It may not be factually correct anymore, but neither are many things that locals use in terminology
By picking people up on it you are showing you aren't really a Londoner, else youd know not to
In which 'phone code area' (sic) are/were these districts? Kilburn Acton Holland Park Ladbroke Grove Leyton Brixton Stockwell Battersea
If your definition is any good, you should be able to tell me.
You're trying too hard
All I am saying is that people that are from London would roughly know what someone meant by 0207 area or 0208 area and wouldn't pull anyone up for using the term, unless they were trying to be annoying
Its like someone who has supported Arsenal for 8 years pulling someone up who has supported them for 35 for saying "Highbury" instead of "The Emirates"... factually correct but anyone with half a clue would know who the more genuine fan was
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
The thing about 0207 London, at least, is that when there is a fall the bounce-back is always pretty swift - so opportunities are fleeting but the rewards are huge. It's great swathes of 0208 and the surrounds that are always worst and longest hit.
There is no such thing as 0207 and 0208 London. The code for London is 020.
There are leading 8s in inner London and leading 3s.
There is no boundary between the two and a mix all over.
The code for London is simply 020.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Perception is more powerful than reality - the 0207 and 0208 'divide' is still widely perceived. Though I guess 0208 number owners are more prone to dispute it......
"Is still widely perceived". It only seems to be "widely perceived" by out of towners on PB.
Guilty as charged to pied a terre in Swiss Cottage, St Johns Wood and Covent Garden....all 0207.....do I detect an 0208 chip on someone's shoulder?
No I detect someone who does not listen/can't read. I have a leading 8 at work which is on erm Zone 1/2 border.
I think you have lost the argument. Move on. The only people I have heard say "the 0208 area of London" are on PB. I last heard it in London about eight years ago.
Am I right in saying we have gone from a protracted and ultimately idiotic debate about what constitutes a Londoner, to a protracted and immediately idiotic debate about what constitutes an inner or outer Londoner based on his or her perception of telephone number prefixes?
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
The thing about 0207 London, at least, is that when there is a fall the bounce-back is always pretty swift - so opportunities are fleeting but the rewards are huge. It's great swathes of 0208 and the surrounds that are always worst and longest hit.
There is no such thing as 0207 and 0208 London. The code for London is 020.
There are leading 8s in inner London and leading 3s.
There is no boundary between the two and a mix all over.
The code for London is simply 020.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Perception is more powerful than reality - the 0207 and 0208 'divide' is still widely perceived. Though I guess 0208 number owners are more prone to dispute it......
"Is still widely perceived". It only seems to be "widely perceived" by out of towners on PB.
Guilty as charged to pied a terre in Swiss Cottage, St Johns Wood and Covent Garden....all 0207.....do I detect an 0208 chip on someone's shoulder?
No I detect someone who does not listen/can't read. I have a leading 8 at work which is on erm Zone 1/2 border.
I think you have lost the argument. Move on. The only people I have heard say "the 0208 area of London" are on PB. I last heard it in London about eight years ago.
You are correct that it doesn't mean much anymore... but the point is that anyone who really was from London would know what @SouthamObserver meant without needing to pull him up...
I don't think being from one part of London is any better than another, or not being from London at all... you seem to have the hang up
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
The thing about 0207 London, at least, is that when there is a fall the bounce-back is always pretty swift - so opportunities are fleeting but the rewards are huge. It's great swathes of 0208 and the surrounds that are always worst and longest hit.
.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Or someone who lives in 0208 territory and has a chip on their shoulder about it...
I'm in an "0207 area" but I agree with Bobafett, it's redundant to think of 0207 or 0208. Indeed the only place I have recently heard this archaism is on pb.
Seriously, when did you last hear someone say "ooh, he lives in an 0208 district"? - no one says this any more, ever.
Postcode snobbery is, however, rampant as always - though also changing, as E becomes fashionable.
its just an old fashioned way of saying Inner London and Outer London though. To pull someone up saying its not factually correct is a bit petty, that's the point I was making
It's not petty because it's a useless measure and no-one ever uses it, except SO et al on here - who don't live in London. It's a completely useless measure - my office is on the edge of Zone 1 yet has a leading 8. (It does not have a "0208 phone number" as there is no such thing - the code for London is, and always has been, simply 020)
You re completely missing the point, as you always seem to with London.
Before you lived there, I assume, Outer London was 0181 (before that 081), and inner London was 0171 (071).
Maybe he harks back to more egalitarian days (if you didn't know the exchange) when everyone was 01?
Am I right in saying we have gone from a protracted and ultimately idiotic debate about what constitutes a Londoner, to a protracted and immediately idiotic debate about what constitutes an inner or outer Londoner based on his or her perception of telephone number prefixes?
Am I right in saying we have gone from a protracted and ultimately idiotic debate about what constitutes a Londoner, to a protracted and immediately idiotic debate about what constitutes an inner or outer Londoner based on his or her perception of telephone number prefixes?
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
The thing about 0207 London, at least, is that when there is a fall the bounce-back is always pretty swift - so opportunities are fleeting but the rewards are huge. It's great swathes of 0208 and the surrounds that are always worst and longest hit.
There is no such thing as 0207 and 0208 London. The code for London is 020.
There are leading 8s in inner London and leading 3s.
There is no boundary between the two and a mix all over.
The code for London is simply 020.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Perception is more powerful than reality - the 0207 and 0208 'divide' is still widely perceived. Though I guess 0208 number owners are more prone to dispute it......
"Is still widely perceived". It only seems to be "widely perceived" by out of towners on PB.
Guilty as charged to pied a terre in Swiss Cottage, St Johns Wood and Covent Garden....all 0207.....do I detect an 0208 chip on someone's shoulder?
The only people I have heard say "the 0208 area of London" are on PB. I last heard it in London about eight years ago.
Of course that may be a comment on your 0208 social circle.....
Am I right in saying we have gone from a protracted and ultimately idiotic debate about what constitutes a Londoner, to a protracted and immediately idiotic debate about what constitutes an inner or outer Londoner based on his or her perception of telephone number prefixes?
It's better than pro wrestling.
14th May in Glasgow. WWE. My son's Christmas present from santa. Oh god.
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
The thing about 0207 London, at least, is that when there is a fall the bounce-back is always pretty swift - so opportunities are fleeting but the rewards are huge. It's great swathes of 0208 and the surrounds that are always worst and longest hit.
.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Or someone who lives in 0208 territory and has a chip on their shoulder about it...
I'm in an "0207 area" but I agree with Bobafett, it's redundant to think of 0207 or 0208. Indeed the only place I have recently heard this archaism is on pb.
Seriously, when did you last hear someone say "ooh, he lives in an 0208 district"? - no one says this any more, ever.
Postcode snobbery is, however, rampant as always - though also changing, as E becomes fashionable.
its just an old fashioned way of saying Inner London and Outer London though. To pull someone up saying its not factually correct is a bit petty, that's the point I was making
It's not petty because it's a useless measure and no-one ever uses it, except SO et al on here - who don't live in London. It's a completely useless measure - my office is on the edge of Zone 1 yet has a leading 8. (It does not have a "0208 phone number" as there is no such thing - the code for London is, and always has been, simply 020)
You re completely missing the point, as you always seem to with London.
Before you lived there, I assume, Outer London was 0181 (before that 081), and inner London was 0171 (071).
Maybe he harks back to more egalitarian days (if you didn't know the exchange) when everyone was 01?
I wonder when the programme "01 for London" was on, if they had people like Boba phoning up saying "Strictly speaking, I live in a London Borough and I don't have an 01 prefix....."
Am I right in saying we have gone from a protracted and ultimately idiotic debate about what constitutes a Londoner, to a protracted and immediately idiotic debate about what constitutes an inner or outer Londoner based on his or her perception of telephone number prefixes?
It's better than pro wrestling.
14th May in Glasgow. WWE. My son's Christmas present from santa. Oh god.
I see your WWE and raise you a Balamory Live show.
Am I right in saying we have gone from a protracted and ultimately idiotic debate about what constitutes a Londoner, to a protracted and immediately idiotic debate about what constitutes an inner or outer Londoner based on his or her perception of telephone number prefixes?
@SeanT - The London property market dropped precipitously five or six years back if I remember. At that time one of my fellow directors picked up a four bedroomed, four storey house in Tufnell Park - fully habitable, but in need of a bit of work - for £650,000. He's added about £1 million to that since.
The thing about 0207 London, at least, is that when there is a fall the bounce-back is always pretty swift - so opportunities are fleeting but the rewards are huge. It's great swathes of 0208 and the surrounds that are always worst and longest hit.
There is no such thing as 0207 and 0208 London. The code for London is 020.
There are leading 8s in inner London and leading 3s.
There is no boundary between the two and a mix all over.
The code for London is simply 020.
At the risk of re opening a can of worms, anybody who has lived in London for more that 15 years or so would know exactly what @SouthamObserver means, even if there are anomalies that make it factually incorrect. Only someone who wasn't really from London, or was a teenager maybe, would make the point you just did
Perception is more powerful than reality - the 0207 and 0208 'divide' is still widely perceived. Though I guess 0208 number owners are more prone to dispute it......
"Is still widely perceived". It only seems to be "widely perceived" by out of towners on PB.
Guilty as charged to pied a terre in Swiss Cottage, St Johns Wood and Covent Garden....all 0207.....do I detect an 0208 chip on someone's shoulder?
No I detect someone who does not listen/can't read. I have a leading 8 at work which is on erm Zone 1/2 border.
I think you have lost the argument. Move on. The only people I have heard say "the 0208 area of London" are on PB. I last heard it in London about eight years ago.
Am I right in saying we have gone from a protracted and ultimately idiotic debate about what constitutes a Londoner, to a protracted and immediately idiotic debate about what constitutes an inner or outer Londoner based on his or her perception of telephone number prefixes?
It's better than pro wrestling.
14th May in Glasgow. WWE. My son's Christmas present from santa. Oh god.
I see your WWE and raise you a Balamory Live show.
And they're not even my kids!
I can't imagine that the Balamory Live Show will ever match "The Singing Kettle". Deeply traumatic. "Spout, handle, lid of metal, what's inside the singing KETTLE" scream 300+ kids at a pitch that could break glass. That was the pits.
No Lady Boulton's today - so now I have to cope with the London number thing. Now I know how the anti-music people felt yesterday. (although with London number disc. V Music - I'm sure I'm on the side of Justice)
Interesting poll of students. No idea how seriously to take it (though the sample size is decent) but the fall in Lib Dem ratings over the years is spectacular.
I am going to be replacing Vanilla in about a week, so long as I can find an appropriate replacement (that doesn't require me to devote tens of hours of time to systems maintenance). [Likewise, I'm not going to roll my own, however tempting that might be...]
Could people post links to sites where they think the comments are done particularly well, so I can take a look.
Thanks
Got notified about this, thought it was highly relevant (Totally Innocent Smile!)
I am going to be replacing Vanilla in about a week, so long as I can find an appropriate replacement (that doesn't require me to devote tens of hours of time to systems maintenance). [Likewise, I'm not going to roll my own, however tempting that might be...]
Could people post links to sites where they think the comments are done particularly well, so I can take a look.
Thanks
Got notified about this, thought it was highly relevant (Totally Innocent Smile!)
Comments
The UK GE decides things on a UK-wide basis - as will the independence referendum - 2011 Holyrood is purely an internal Scottish matter - we can debate which set of numbers are more appropriate to use, without you resorting to lies, surely?
Surely Miliband would be better off getting Peter Mandelson back in the saddle. The architect of New Labour who also denied Cameron a majority in 2010 would be a far more useful asset.
The fact that Labour seem to prefer foreigners does speak to me of fundamental internal divisions. Getting in external help is a sign of weakness. Companies do it when they know they need to undertake actions that they cannot get backing for internally.
Personally I'm a 01708 man!
In either case, dismissing over 400,000 fellow Scots as 'nothing' reeks of arrogance and hubris.
I could well be wrong, but it does activate my sneer sensor.
I enjoy your teasing and I hope the Scots do well if they do vote yes.
But I have a slight fear that it will all go wrong .... breakdown of law and order, Scots living in caves and eating each other (they do have form) resulting in a Scot-zombie apocalypse heading South by 2018.
I have an ex-colleague who is a Jambo, so I like to point out that Hibernian are my tip for success next year. A team of Scottish workmen led by an English overlord - the natural order of things.
I really wonder how much value that adds, especially in a "market" that is alien to them.
Get some policies Beaker - not another yank guru.
I wouldn't argue they're 'nothing', just relatively unimportant in a psephological or campaigning sense. Also, since polls suggest that 85% consists almost entirely of those who think Scotland couldn't succeed as an independent country, I'm not sure there's much intellectual nourishment there as far as a debate about Scotland's future goes.
It looks as if it has a little longer to run at present.
Do you have polling to support "those who think Scotland couldn't succeed as an independent country"?
Of course, it could be that they think they are 'Better Together'.....
Whatever their motives, they are convinced of the case for the Union, (more than SNP supporters are convinced of the case for independence) and sending someone up to convince them further seems a pretty pointless exercise.....
Its the DE Labour voter where the battle will be fought and won.....or lost.....
I posted a detailed response with facts and figures a couple of days ago.
You ignored it.
A lot of the demand comes from foreign investors, but not foreign oligarchs. Oligarchs buy companies, not shares or BTL flats. They have a specific impact in certain areas of London, but this is not a meaningful sum of money in the scheme of things.
Q1. Do you agree or disagree
with the following statement:
"Scotland could be a successful,
independent country"
Cons - No 83% Yes 8% DK 9%
http://tinyurl.com/n4x5k95
I thought in the late eighties that when no one could afford to buy the house that they lived in the crash could not be far off. We are at that stage again now. The seemingly perpetual low interest rates do keep the illusion going quite well. Even a quarter % rise would seem a major shock, but it has to happen at some point.
Interestingly the same demographic skew on attitude to independence we saw in the TNS:
Net agree (Do you think Scotland could be a successful Independent Country?):
AB: +5
C1: -3
C2: +16
DE: +34
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/ireland-s-men-ranked-among-the-ugliest-in-the-world-1.1766568
A nerd a creep and an imposter.
Take the imposter, our PM. Now we are to believe that he's a committed Christian all of a sudden. This after he has delivered the coup de grace to marriage.
That Ruthless Truth guy really nails that in: "Dearly Beloved" at:
http://john-moloney.blogspot.com/2014/04/normal-0-21-false-false-false-pl-x-none.html
"Oh yes: one other crisis coming that I didn't mention. At some point people will realise that the Japanese government is bust."
Given that people have been predicting this for twenty years, I think it's so priced in that if and when they do eventually default, it won't have too much of an effect. The theory of Abenomics seems to be the best thing they can do, even if the liberalisation arrow isn't being done in practice, and even if the guy himself is so daft he's right by accident.
I replied.
And even if it was the coup de grace to marriage, that literally means 'finishing blow', in which case marriage was apparently on its last legs, and that cannot be laid at Cameron's door.
I often think that if christianity cannot handle and survive the changes the modern world have brought to the fore, it doesn't speak well as to its stregnth - christianity emerged from nothing and has endured for thousands of years, but apparently secularism and homosexual equality is too much to confront/defeat/accept/survive? The faithful can rest assured in their eternal truths and know that passing trends will be just that, if they wish.
I must say Cameron's sudden interest in faith has been a bit surprising, though despite not being a christian myself I have no problem with the heritage of this nation as christian being emphasised.
It was first written in 1549, and Wikipedia succinctly describes its history: "The 1549 book was soon succeeded by a more reformed revision in 1552 under the same editorial hand, that of Thomas Cranmer, Archbishop of Canterbury. It was used only for a few months, as after Edward VI's death in 1553, his half-sister Mary I restored Roman Catholic worship. She herself died in 1558, and in 1559 Elizabeth I reintroduced the 1552 book with a few modifications to make it acceptable to more traditionally minded worshippers, notably the inclusion of the words of administration from the 1549 Communion Service alongside those of 1552. In 1604, James I ordered some further changes, the most significant of these being the addition to the Catechism of a section on the Sacraments. Following the tumultuous events leading to and including the English Civil War, another major revision was published in 1662 (Church of England 1662). That edition has remained the official prayer book of the Church of England."
If ever their was a history that belied a human hand in its execution, rather than a godly one, this must surely be it.
The Eastern Bloc from Vilnius to Vladivostok is a much better place than it was thirty years ago. Setting aside the question of whether western polling methods give valid indications of public opinion in the area, there would undoubtedly be little support for a return to centrally planned communist economy even in the deepest recesses of the bloc.
I lived through the wild East's transition to its current state, literally in its heart for a period, and held development responsibilities for the whole area in a multinational. I have seen first hand and in a very small way participated in these changes. I was one of the first westerners to commission opinion polling (not political) in Moscow, so I am aware of both its value and limitations in the area.
The Russian economy thrives because all Russia needs to do to earn a fat foreign currency surplus is dig and sell. The success of this digging has moved from arthritic isolation under Soviet Rule, through rapid expansion under oligarchical thieves to its current global strength under semi-market driven state control.
As long as Russia can maintain its place in the global economy as an energy and minerals supplier, incentives for it's government to develop competitive advantage in other sectors will be limited. Yet this hasn't stopped the gradual development of an urban middle class which is demanding more democracy, wider economic development and a fairer distribution of the proceeds of success. These demands are slow in coming and will take time to mature but herein lies real promise and the foundations for Russia's deeper and wider global integration.
Putin may not be to everyone's taste but he has provided Russia with stability, increasing wealth and standards of living, recovered national pride and a more open and globally integrated country. The Sochi Olympics and G8 meeting were designed to be his apotheosis. Instead he was landed with the Ukrainian crisis and he is now lashing out in response.
Russians are never easy to negotiate or do business with. They resist being patronised and never start from the assumption that western practices and values are right for their own country. Yes, they will enjoy, admire and maybe even envy the luxuries, both spiritual and material, of Western success but only when on holiday or in exile. Western powers, whether governmental or private sector, get frustrated by the delays, dangers and difficulties of trying to do business in Moscow. It is far quicker and simpler to secure the fawning admiration and support of the impoverished and powerless periphery.
But the rewards from the periphery are diminishing and the risks ever increasing. It is time for Kerry, Hague and whoever replaces Ashton to switch their attention from Kiev to Moscow. This is where your "pragmatic realities" can be addressed. It may take longer to achieve and be a more turbulent passage, but the rewards of such efforts will be immeasurably greater for all.
And the fools have not seen this coming!
"Yet this hasn't stopped the gradual development of an urban middle class which is demanding more democracy"
Odd that Eastern Ukraine tends to be richer and more urbanized, while the western part is in general more agrarian?
Cameron must respond by employing Dr Ventmore Spleen, and Farage with the famous US psephologist Chad Hangcounter.
I predict a torrent of Ed sniffing the air presidential spots
Only bestial marriage will put the final nail in the coffin, as well as bringing in the death of morality we are all aiming for.
Apologies to all traditional marriage believers - I know you have your sincerely held beliefs to which you are entitled to hold.
The Guardian is clearly just trying to cheer us all up in their agnostic style for the easter weekend.
first hatchet job on the new guru
http://order-order.com/2014/04/18/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-axelrod/
Seinfeld>Friends
Up there in the incredulity stakes with "The cheque's in the post!"
http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/the-definitive-stereotype-map-of-britain-and-ireland
No. It's not. Loads of Central London phone numbers have leading 8s or 3s. Like my office number, for example.
It only seems to be "widely perceived" by out of towners on PB.
Can either of them deliver a proposal that swings the pendulum? Is 'job not yet done, were getting there' enough? Is 'Job not done, time for change in the middle of it' enough?
It's really difficult to see a way out of this that results in a working majority.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
Which is part of the dilemma facing the Ukraine. Should the rich control the government, or the government control the rich?
You "pays yer money".....and lose either way.
Change now!
Before you lived there, I assume, Outer London was 0181 (before that 081), and inner London was 0171 (071). The codes where changed to 020 7 and 020 8 a few years ago, and now seem to have merged more, but anyone who is over 18 and lived in or worked in London would recognise the distinction between 0207 part of town and 0208.
It may not be factually correct anymore, but neither are many things that locals use in terminology
By picking people up on it you are showing you aren't really a Londoner, else youd know not to
Spot on!
1/2 aint bad
http://www.primelocation.com/for-sale/details/32698128?search_identifier=68ae7c984f1f437fe5004cc8bca067eb
I think you have lost the argument. Move on. The only people I have heard say "the 0208 area of London" are on PB. I last heard it in London about eight years ago.
Just look at Arseniy Yatsenyuk. Almost as weird as Ed Miliband.
Not surprising really as they both hail from the same steppes.
This is going well. - Auntie announces the wrong brother, and Labour can't spell his name..!
I don't think being from one part of London is any better than another, or not being from London at all... you seem to have the hang up
Bought some Sainsbury’s “Taste the Difference” Hot Cross Buns. They all taste like Hot Cross Buns to me. Hardest game ever.
Do you think the interim government was entirely wise to consider removing russian as an official language?
click
brrrr
And they're not even my kids!
Big difference, eh?
About the same difference as being ruled by the rich, or by the government really?
Current VI:
Lab - 43%
Con - 24%
Green - 14%
LD - 6%
UKIP - 5%
And for our Scottish posters:
No - 58%
Yes - 37%
(But only 200 Scottish students sampled)
http://www.youthsight.com/media-centre/press/the-student-vote-2014/
But what if PB were confined to Scotland? Who then would our ruler be and why?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/17/bofh_2014_episode_4/
MalcomG - Better to be feared than loved
Obviously king Eck of the House of Curry.
Politicians and the fabulously wealthy share a common trait, an insatiable lust for more.
He is after all doing such a god job.
I always fear for his well-being at this time of year.