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Today’s high noon for Andy Burnham (well 5pm) – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,173
    DavidL said:

    CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany is facing calls to withdraw its billions of euros’ worth of gold from US vaults, spurred on by the shift in transatlantic relations and the unpredictability of Donald Trump.

    Germany holds the world’s second biggest national gold reserves after the US, of which approximately €164bn (£122bn) worth – 1,236 tonnes – is stored in New York.

    Emanuel Mönch, a leading economist and former head of research at Germany’s federal bank, the Bundesbank, called for the gold to be brought home, saying it was too “risky” for it to be kept in the US under the current administration.

    “Given the current geopolitical situation, it seems risky to store so much gold in the US,” he told the financial newspaper Handelsblatt. “In the interest of greater strategic independence from the US, the Bundesbank would therefore be well advised to consider repatriating the gold.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/24/repatriate-the-gold-german-economists-advise-withdrawal-from-us-vaults

    Makes sense. Trump is basically Goldfinger.
    I've never heard him say anything as funny as, "No Mr Bond, I expect you to die."
    Bit rude to Mr Goldfinger - he ran a multinational, inclusive & profitable organisation. His employees are effective and well trained - a sign of good management. Goldfinger himself has a detailed knowledge of his operations. His presentation skills on pitching new projects is world class.

    His latest project required close cooperation with the Chinese governments, their employees and a substantial number of members of the legally challenged community. But for the actions of an upper class white male imperialist, it would have been an overwhelming success.

    Goldfinger for PM.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,632
    Phil said:

    Perhaps having the country run by a Manchester mafia would be a genuine game changer.

    Burnham/Rayner/Powell would be a much harder political target than Starmer and Reeves.

    Bonus points for moving Parliament to Manchester whilst the Houses are refurbished.
    Extra bonus point for keeping it there.


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,645
    Scott_xP said:

    He's awake, and cranky

    @atrupar.com‬

    Trump: “If Governor Carney thinks he is going to make Canada a ‘Drop Off Port’ for China to send goods and products into the United States, he is sorely mistaken … If Canada makes a deal with China, it will immediately be hit with a 100% Tariff against all Canadian goods and products”

    There doesn't seem to be any upsides to working with Trump, since he will alter his stance on a day by day basis.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,913
    CatMan said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/24/latest-chatgpt-model-uses-elon-musks-grokipedia-as-source-tests-reveal

    "The latest model of ChatGPT has begun to cite Elon Musk’s Grokipedia as a source on a wide range of queries, including on Iranian conglomerates and Holocaust deniers, raising concerns about misinformation on the platform.

    In tests done by the Guardian, GPT-5.2 cited Grokipedia nine times in response to more than a dozen different questions. These included queries on political structures in Iran, such as salaries of the Basij paramilitary force and the ownership of the Mostazafan Foundation, and questions on the biography of Sir Richard Evans, a British historian and expert witness against Holocaust denier David Irving in his libel trial.
    "

    “nine times to more than a dozen queries”

    Sloppy journalism. How many more than a dozen is quite significant here if we are to assess how frequent it is.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,478
    DavidL said:

    CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany is facing calls to withdraw its billions of euros’ worth of gold from US vaults, spurred on by the shift in transatlantic relations and the unpredictability of Donald Trump.

    Germany holds the world’s second biggest national gold reserves after the US, of which approximately €164bn (£122bn) worth – 1,236 tonnes – is stored in New York.

    Emanuel Mönch, a leading economist and former head of research at Germany’s federal bank, the Bundesbank, called for the gold to be brought home, saying it was too “risky” for it to be kept in the US under the current administration.

    “Given the current geopolitical situation, it seems risky to store so much gold in the US,” he told the financial newspaper Handelsblatt. “In the interest of greater strategic independence from the US, the Bundesbank would therefore be well advised to consider repatriating the gold.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/24/repatriate-the-gold-german-economists-advise-withdrawal-from-us-vaults

    Makes sense. Trump is basically Goldfinger.
    I've never heard him say anything as funny as, "No Mr Bond, I expect you to die."
    I thought it was "No, Mr Powers, I expect you to die!"
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,722
    Whether you agree or disagree with the the proposed streamlining of police forces in England and Wales this is just a party political piece by Kuennsberg. Critiquing this government and the Blair government on behalf of the Conservative Party and promoting their narrative. There is absolutely none of the BBCs infamous and normally absurd balancing of the argument.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2k98jw3xnxo

    And PB considers the BBC to be Britain's last bastion of socialism.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,749
    isam said:

    Local Labour members must be able to freely choose their candidate for Gorton and Denton.

    Sorry but if the most unpopular Labour government in history intervenes to block our only senior Labour politician with a net positive public approval rating - in doing so risking handing victory to a far right party - that’s putting petty factionalism before the country.

    The last person at Labour HQ had better turn the lights off on their way out.


    https://x.com/nadiawhittomemp/status/2015032754145317344?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    The difference between net positive popularity levels in polling needs to considered against where one person in a job has to make tough decisions many of which, such as tax and spend, will be very unpopular - the other persons job is little more than glorified car park attendant.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,788
    CatMan said:
    The Tweet came out and was discussed here days ago. That's quick journalism from the Guardian, they'll be reporting on the rise of Tiktok and the difficulty of getting on the property ladder soon.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,276

    DavidL said:

    CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany is facing calls to withdraw its billions of euros’ worth of gold from US vaults, spurred on by the shift in transatlantic relations and the unpredictability of Donald Trump.

    Germany holds the world’s second biggest national gold reserves after the US, of which approximately €164bn (£122bn) worth – 1,236 tonnes – is stored in New York.

    Emanuel Mönch, a leading economist and former head of research at Germany’s federal bank, the Bundesbank, called for the gold to be brought home, saying it was too “risky” for it to be kept in the US under the current administration.

    “Given the current geopolitical situation, it seems risky to store so much gold in the US,” he told the financial newspaper Handelsblatt. “In the interest of greater strategic independence from the US, the Bundesbank would therefore be well advised to consider repatriating the gold.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/24/repatriate-the-gold-german-economists-advise-withdrawal-from-us-vaults

    Makes sense. Trump is basically Goldfinger.
    I've never heard him say anything as funny as, "No Mr Bond, I expect you to die."
    Bit rude to Mr Goldfinger - he ran a multinational, inclusive & profitable organisation. His employees are effective and well trained - a sign of good management. Goldfinger himself has a detailed knowledge of his operations. His presentation skills on pitching new projects is world class.

    His latest project required close cooperation with the Chinese governments, their employees and a substantial number of members of the legally challenged community. But for the actions of an upper class white male imperialist, it would have been an overwhelming success.

    Goldfinger for PM.
    He's the man.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,719
    Scott_xP said:

    @LizzyBuchan
    Sadiq Khan becomes the latest Labour bigwig to say Andy Burnham shouldn't be blocked from standing in the Gorton by-election.

    He tells @thefabians conference: "I think if Andy Burnham wants to be a member of Parliament, Andy Burnham should be allowed to be a member of Parliament.

    "I'm a firm believer in the best team having all the talent playing for them, and if Andy wants to return to Parliament, I will try and make some time between now and the by-election to knock on some doors for him, or whoever the candidate is."

    Er, no.
    He should be allowed to seek the approval of the electorate to become an MP.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,788

    DavidL said:

    CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany is facing calls to withdraw its billions of euros’ worth of gold from US vaults, spurred on by the shift in transatlantic relations and the unpredictability of Donald Trump.

    Germany holds the world’s second biggest national gold reserves after the US, of which approximately €164bn (£122bn) worth – 1,236 tonnes – is stored in New York.

    Emanuel Mönch, a leading economist and former head of research at Germany’s federal bank, the Bundesbank, called for the gold to be brought home, saying it was too “risky” for it to be kept in the US under the current administration.

    “Given the current geopolitical situation, it seems risky to store so much gold in the US,” he told the financial newspaper Handelsblatt. “In the interest of greater strategic independence from the US, the Bundesbank would therefore be well advised to consider repatriating the gold.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/24/repatriate-the-gold-german-economists-advise-withdrawal-from-us-vaults

    Makes sense. Trump is basically Goldfinger.
    I've never heard him say anything as funny as, "No Mr Bond, I expect you to die."
    I thought it was "No, Mr Powers, I expect you to die!"
    Germany is always trying to get that gold back - the USA is always refusing. Trump is another angle on that request - it will fail again. It's the USA's gold now.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,836
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He's awake, and cranky

    @atrupar.com‬

    Trump: “If Governor Carney thinks he is going to make Canada a ‘Drop Off Port’ for China to send goods and products into the United States, he is sorely mistaken … If Canada makes a deal with China, it will immediately be hit with a 100% Tariff against all Canadian goods and products”

    There doesn't seem to be any upsides to working with Trump, since he will alter his stance on a day by day basis.
    The great dealmaker is more the great dealbreaker.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,913

    DavidL said:

    CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany is facing calls to withdraw its billions of euros’ worth of gold from US vaults, spurred on by the shift in transatlantic relations and the unpredictability of Donald Trump.

    Germany holds the world’s second biggest national gold reserves after the US, of which approximately €164bn (£122bn) worth – 1,236 tonnes – is stored in New York.

    Emanuel Mönch, a leading economist and former head of research at Germany’s federal bank, the Bundesbank, called for the gold to be brought home, saying it was too “risky” for it to be kept in the US under the current administration.

    “Given the current geopolitical situation, it seems risky to store so much gold in the US,” he told the financial newspaper Handelsblatt. “In the interest of greater strategic independence from the US, the Bundesbank would therefore be well advised to consider repatriating the gold.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/24/repatriate-the-gold-german-economists-advise-withdrawal-from-us-vaults

    Makes sense. Trump is basically Goldfinger.
    I've never heard him say anything as funny as, "No Mr Bond, I expect you to die."
    I thought it was "No, Mr Powers, I expect you to die!"
    Germany is always trying to get that gold back - the USA is always refusing. Trump is another angle on that request - it will fail again. It's the USA's gold now.
    The seem to have transferred a bunch back in 2017, but maybe this is a new thing?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,749

    DavidL said:

    CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany is facing calls to withdraw its billions of euros’ worth of gold from US vaults, spurred on by the shift in transatlantic relations and the unpredictability of Donald Trump.

    Germany holds the world’s second biggest national gold reserves after the US, of which approximately €164bn (£122bn) worth – 1,236 tonnes – is stored in New York.

    Emanuel Mönch, a leading economist and former head of research at Germany’s federal bank, the Bundesbank, called for the gold to be brought home, saying it was too “risky” for it to be kept in the US under the current administration.

    “Given the current geopolitical situation, it seems risky to store so much gold in the US,” he told the financial newspaper Handelsblatt. “In the interest of greater strategic independence from the US, the Bundesbank would therefore be well advised to consider repatriating the gold.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/24/repatriate-the-gold-german-economists-advise-withdrawal-from-us-vaults

    Makes sense. Trump is basically Goldfinger.
    I've never heard him say anything as funny as, "No Mr Bond, I expect you to die."
    I thought it was "No, Mr Powers, I expect you to die!"
    Germany is always trying to get that gold back - the USA is always refusing. Trump is another angle on that request - it will fail again. It's the USA's gold now.
    Are you saying there is a lesson to learn here?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,307
    Trump administration thinks it’s above the law, part 73:

    ICE flew 2-year-old to Texas despite court order to release her from custody

    https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ice-flew-2-year-old-to-texas-despite-court-order-to-release-her-from-custody/
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,901

    In defence of historical truth, and write the right paragraphs summing this up for the record books, did Trump have a bit of a truthful point in his attack on NATO over Afghanistan War?

    I am aware Afghanistan is split today, hardliners to the South and east with Supreme Leader, more moderate conservatives to the North and west, who are beginning to get their way a bit over the hardliners.
    I was too young to remember the Afghan war, but looking into it, some NATO countries did insist on national caveats that restricted their troops' engagement levels, which meant they were not deployed on the frontlines in Afghanistan. We lost 457, the US nearly two and half Thousand, France Germany Italy under 100 each.

    Where UK was deployed was certainly front line in those toughest provinces. UK didn’t go with caveats. The defence of Trump is he bundled those without caveats to role so role was same as US in with, in with those with front line engagement caveats, when in Trump {and goodness knows how many other American} minds he’s thinking NATO article 5 invoked by US after it was attacked, but some NATO countries came to help with caveats. On the other hand, if knowingly not tired and ignorantly bundled non caveat’s in with those caveated it’s the very nastiest shocking attack on UK, and at same time as well thirty coalition allies who came to help US did take casualties, so stupid and nasty thing to say and do to all allies who came to help.

    However, to understand it and if clever politics at play here, I do know on research into Hitler NAZI regime, that fascists and populists are noted for cunning politics for focusing much on a bit of actual factual truth in their policy’s and rhetoric, as seen from national or populist point of view plays very well with that crowd, and spinning it and bigging it up from there to win over people, which helps define Trump, Farage etc in how they go about things as different from how decent moderate fair minded politicians go about things.

    I'm sorry I've tried really hard but I don't understand what you're saying. Is it important?

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,307

    CatMan said:
    The Tweet came out and was discussed here days ago. That's quick journalism from the Guardian, they'll be reporting on the rise of Tiktok and the difficulty of getting on the property ladder soon.
    It was embarrassing days ago. It’s embarrassing now. The more people who see this, the better.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,901
    Any bets? My money would be firmly on him standing and launching a leadership challenge this year.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,901

    Whether you agree or disagree with the the proposed streamlining of police forces in England and Wales this is just a party political piece by Kuennsberg. Critiquing this government and the Blair government on behalf of the Conservative Party and promoting their narrative. There is absolutely none of the BBCs infamous and normally absurd balancing of the argument.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2k98jw3xnxo

    And PB considers the BBC to be Britain's last bastion of socialism.

    She is not very good. She was at one time. I preferred her to Chris Mason who I'm still not a fan of but she's really not good or even interesting anymore
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,719
    DavidL said:

    CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany is facing calls to withdraw its billions of euros’ worth of gold from US vaults, spurred on by the shift in transatlantic relations and the unpredictability of Donald Trump.

    Germany holds the world’s second biggest national gold reserves after the US, of which approximately €164bn (£122bn) worth – 1,236 tonnes – is stored in New York.

    Emanuel Mönch, a leading economist and former head of research at Germany’s federal bank, the Bundesbank, called for the gold to be brought home, saying it was too “risky” for it to be kept in the US under the current administration.

    “Given the current geopolitical situation, it seems risky to store so much gold in the US,” he told the financial newspaper Handelsblatt. “In the interest of greater strategic independence from the US, the Bundesbank would therefore be well advised to consider repatriating the gold.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/24/repatriate-the-gold-german-economists-advise-withdrawal-from-us-vaults

    Makes sense. Trump is basically Goldfinger.
    I've never heard him say anything as funny as, "No Mr Bond, I expect you to die."
    Sadly Goldfinger never actually said that, Gert Fröbe being dubbed by an English actor.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,478
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He's awake, and cranky

    @atrupar.com‬

    Trump: “If Governor Carney thinks he is going to make Canada a ‘Drop Off Port’ for China to send goods and products into the United States, he is sorely mistaken … If Canada makes a deal with China, it will immediately be hit with a 100% Tariff against all Canadian goods and products”

    There doesn't seem to be any upsides to working with Trump, since he will alter his stance on a day by day basis.
    He's so God-damned stupid that he doesn't get that Canada wants a deal with China because it's now impossible to do a deal with America, as he can simply blow up such deals at a whim, as he did with NAFTA, and now USMCA (which is his own deal).

    Basically the lesson every sane person has learnt over the last year is that you can't do business with the Americans anymore, the country is run by a lunatic.
    The Donald Trump Asylum for the Criminally Insane.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,722
    Taz said:

    It's gonna be a hoot if we find out on Monday morning that Ed Balls has applied.

    Ed Balls has a successful post politics career in TV. Cannot see him jeopardising it.
    And his gazillion dollar podcast with Ozzy.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,749
    edited 2:53PM
    Roger said:

    In defence of historical truth, and write the right paragraphs summing this up for the record books, did Trump have a bit of a truthful point in his attack on NATO over Afghanistan War?

    I am aware Afghanistan is split today, hardliners to the South and east with Supreme Leader, more moderate conservatives to the North and west, who are beginning to get their way a bit over the hardliners.
    I was too young to remember the Afghan war, but looking into it, some NATO countries did insist on national caveats that restricted their troops' engagement levels, which meant they were not deployed on the frontlines in Afghanistan. We lost 457, the US nearly two and half Thousand, France Germany Italy under 100 each.

    Where UK was deployed was certainly front line in those toughest provinces. UK didn’t go with caveats. The defence of Trump is he bundled those without caveats to role so role was same as US in with, in with those with front line engagement caveats, when in Trump {and goodness knows how many other American} minds he’s thinking NATO article 5 invoked by US after it was attacked, but some NATO countries came to help with caveats. On the other hand, if knowingly not tired and ignorantly bundled non caveat’s in with those caveated it’s the very nastiest shocking attack on UK, and at same time as well thirty coalition allies who came to help US did take casualties, so stupid and nasty thing to say and do to all allies who came to help.

    However, to understand it and if clever politics at play here, I do know on research into Hitler NAZI regime, that fascists and populists are noted for cunning politics for focusing much on a bit of actual factual truth in their policy’s and rhetoric, as seen from national or populist point of view plays very well with that crowd, and spinning it and bigging it up from there to win over people, which helps define Trump, Farage etc in how they go about things as different from how decent moderate fair minded politicians go about things.

    I'm sorry I've tried really hard but I don't understand what you're saying. Is it important?

    Yes. It’s bloody important. Try again.
    UK was attacked, we invoked article 5, some NATO members came for a front line role, others with caveats to limit their people getting hurt, which then maximises the amount of front line work others need to do. It becomes a question of what you are thinking, but as internationalists not diplomatically saying, doesn’t it? And such a thing is beautifully ripe for fascists and populists who are always nation comes first-ists, to exploit.
    I’m not in the group who regard Trump and Farage as simpleminded, glib, even bit boorish or stupid. I look on it and regard them as sinister. I thought the book of magic spells had been discredited, deemed too dangerous and put away like at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. And that a note was taken to remember the lessons forever - things like the ECHR set up to keep us in check and help us remember.
    And I’m not wrong.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,347
    Cookie said:

    Phil said:

    Perhaps having the country run by a Manchester mafia would be a genuine game changer.

    Burnham/Rayner/Powell would be a much harder political target than Starmer and Reeves.

    Bonus points for moving Parliament to Manchester whilst the Houses are refurbished.
    Extra bonus point for keeping it there.


    I've always said Bradford, simply because I want to see how quickly both sides of HS2 and Northern Power Rail could be built.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,925

    Trump administration thinks it’s above the law, part 73:

    ICE flew 2-year-old to Texas despite court order to release her from custody

    https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ice-flew-2-year-old-to-texas-despite-court-order-to-release-her-from-custody/

    Part 74

    @rgoodlaw.bsky.social‬

    On camera: Vance, Noem say ICE doesn’t use race.

    In court: DOJ's filings say the exact opposite.

    Here's what the Justice Department actually told the Supreme Court, and how DOJ defends ICE's use of racially profiling.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rgoodlaw.bsky.social/post/3md6fad3tr22x
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,901
    isam said:

    A very strange example from Jenrick here. He really comes across as slimy & insincere

    🆕 Robert Jenrick with a brutal takedown on the Daily Expresso podcast. JJ Anisiøbi said that Badenoch was voted more popular than Farage in a recent poll, Jenrick: "Yeah, but you kind of are when you're irrelevant".

    [@ExpressPolitics] [@jjanisiobi]

    https://x.com/liamukpolitics/status/2014756115242733974?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    He lacks class to an alarming extent. But as a member of Reform that's probably an advantage
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,423
    edited 2:59PM
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He's awake, and cranky

    @atrupar.com‬

    Trump: “If Governor Carney thinks he is going to make Canada a ‘Drop Off Port’ for China to send goods and products into the United States, he is sorely mistaken … If Canada makes a deal with China, it will immediately be hit with a 100% Tariff against all Canadian goods and products”

    There doesn't seem to be any upsides to working with Trump, since he will alter his stance on a day by day basis.
    He's so God-damned stupid that he doesn't get that Canada wants a deal with China because it's now impossible to do a deal with America, as he can simply blow up such deals at a whim, as he did with NAFTA, and now USMCA (which is his own deal).

    Basically the lesson every sane person has learnt over the last year is that you can't do business with the Americans anymore, the country is run by a lunatic.
    I would love for Trump to have one lucid, coherent moment where he fully understands that he has utterly fucked America for decades to come. And that is ALL he will ever be remembered for.

    However, his frontotemporal dementia is so far gone, I doubt he will.

    My mother suffered from it. On one level, it can be quite funny. Like when I got berated for not congratulating her on the Nobel Prize she got awarded. Unlike Trump, her fixation was not on Peace, but Literature.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,925

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He's awake, and cranky

    @atrupar.com‬

    Trump: “If Governor Carney thinks he is going to make Canada a ‘Drop Off Port’ for China to send goods and products into the United States, he is sorely mistaken … If Canada makes a deal with China, it will immediately be hit with a 100% Tariff against all Canadian goods and products”

    There doesn't seem to be any upsides to working with Trump, since he will alter his stance on a day by day basis.
    He's so God-damned stupid that he doesn't get that Canada wants a deal with China because it's now impossible to do a deal with America, as he can simply blow up such deals at a whim, as he did with NAFTA, and now USMCA (which is his own deal).

    Basically the lesson every sane person has learnt over the last year is that you can't do business with the Americans anymore, the country is run by a lunatic.
    I would love for Trump to have one lucid, coherent moment where he fully understands that he has utterly fucked America for decades to come. And that is ALL he will ever be remembered for.

    However, his frontotemporal dementia is so far gone, I doubt he will.

    My mother suffered from it. On one level, it can be quite funny. Like when I got berated for not congratulating her on the Nobel Prize she got awarded. Unlike Trump, her fixation was not on Peace, but Literature.
    Torn between wanting it to end quickly, and wanting him to witness his entire World torn down, but as you say, may already be too late for that
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,901

    Roger said:

    In defence of historical truth, and write the right paragraphs summing this up for the record books, did Trump have a bit of a truthful point in his attack on NATO over Afghanistan War?

    I am aware Afghanistan is split today, hardliners to the South and east with Supreme Leader, more moderate conservatives to the North and west, who are beginning to get their way a bit over the hardliners.
    I was too young to remember the Afghan war, but looking into it, some NATO countries did insist on national caveats that restricted their troops' engagement levels, which meant they were not deployed on the frontlines in Afghanistan. We lost 457, the US nearly two and half Thousand, France Germany Italy under 100 each.

    Where UK was deployed was certainly front line in those toughest provinces. UK didn’t go with caveats. The defence of Trump is he bundled those without caveats to role so role was same as US in with, in with those with front line engagement caveats, when in Trump {and goodness knows how many other American} minds he’s thinking NATO article 5 invoked by US after it was attacked, but some NATO countries came to help with caveats. On the other hand, if knowingly not tired and ignorantly bundled non caveat’s in with those caveated it’s the very nastiest shocking attack on UK, and at same time as well thirty coalition allies who came to help US did take casualties, so stupid and nasty thing to say and do to all allies who came to help.

    However, to understand it and if clever politics at play here, I do know on research into Hitler NAZI regime, that fascists and populists are noted for cunning politics for focusing much on a bit of actual factual truth in their policy’s and rhetoric, as seen from national or populist point of view plays very well with that crowd, and spinning it and bigging it up from there to win over people, which helps define Trump, Farage etc in how they go about things as different from how decent moderate fair minded politicians go about things.

    I'm sorry I've tried really hard but I don't understand what you're saying. Is it important?

    Yes. It’s bloody important. Try again.
    UK was attacked, we invoked article 5, some NATO members came for a front line role, others with caveats to limit their people getting hurt, which then maximises the amount of front line work others need to do. It becomes a question of what you are thinking, but as internationalists not diplomatically saying, doesn’t it? And such a thing is beautifully ripe for fascists and populists who are always nation comes first-ists, to exploit.
    I’m not in the group who regard Trump and Farage as simpleminded, glib, even bit boorish or stupid. I look on it and regard them as sinister. I thought the book of magic spells had been discredited, deemed too dangerous and put away like at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. And that a note was taken to remember the lessons forever - things like the ECHR set up to keep us in check and help us remember.
    And I’m not wrong.
    I feel like I'm on mushrooms but they're out of season.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,645

    Trump administration thinks it’s above the law, part 73:

    ICE flew 2-year-old to Texas despite court order to release her from custody

    https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ice-flew-2-year-old-to-texas-despite-court-order-to-release-her-from-custody/

    "How do you intend to make me?" seems to be the implicit response to when they are told to do something.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,307
    Scott_xP said:

    Trump administration thinks it’s above the law, part 73:

    ICE flew 2-year-old to Texas despite court order to release her from custody

    https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ice-flew-2-year-old-to-texas-despite-court-order-to-release-her-from-custody/

    Part 74

    @rgoodlaw.bsky.social‬

    On camera: Vance, Noem say ICE doesn’t use race.

    In court: DOJ's filings say the exact opposite.

    Here's what the Justice Department actually told the Supreme Court, and how DOJ defends ICE's use of racially profiling.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rgoodlaw.bsky.social/post/3md6fad3tr22x
    Indeed. ICE are literally arresting people for being brown.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,423

    Taz said:

    It's gonna be a hoot if we find out on Monday morning that Ed Balls has applied.

    Ed Balls has a successful post politics career in TV. Cannot see him jeopardising it.
    And his gazillion dollar podcast with Ozzy.
    I wonder what his wife makes of his glorious career change, as she grinds through month after month of being in an utterly hated Government....
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,925

    Scott_xP said:

    Trump administration thinks it’s above the law, part 73:

    ICE flew 2-year-old to Texas despite court order to release her from custody

    https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ice-flew-2-year-old-to-texas-despite-court-order-to-release-her-from-custody/

    Part 74

    @rgoodlaw.bsky.social‬

    On camera: Vance, Noem say ICE doesn’t use race.

    In court: DOJ's filings say the exact opposite.

    Here's what the Justice Department actually told the Supreme Court, and how DOJ defends ICE's use of racially profiling.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rgoodlaw.bsky.social/post/3md6fad3tr22x
    Indeed. ICE are literally arresting people for being brown.
    Indeed, though it's interesting they are afraid so say that in public (but will say it in court)

    on the same note

    @normcharlatan.bsky.social‬

    The other thing that happens tho is that a large number of white people from the neighborhood show up to observe. Literally the only thing that gives ICE goons pause is white people from the community watching them. That’s why every school has parent patrols and vulnerable places ask for observers.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,101
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He's awake, and cranky

    @atrupar.com‬

    Trump: “If Governor Carney thinks he is going to make Canada a ‘Drop Off Port’ for China to send goods and products into the United States, he is sorely mistaken … If Canada makes a deal with China, it will immediately be hit with a 100% Tariff against all Canadian goods and products”

    There doesn't seem to be any upsides to working with Trump, since he will alter his stance on a day by day basis.
    He's so God-damned stupid that he doesn't get that Canada wants a deal with China because it's now impossible to do a deal with America, as he can simply blow up such deals at a whim, as he did with NAFTA, and now USMCA (which is his own deal).

    Basically the lesson every sane person has learnt over the last year is that you can't do business with the Americans anymore, the country is run by a lunatic.
    Canada getting into bed with China could escalate into a genuine casus belli.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,645
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He's awake, and cranky

    @atrupar.com‬

    Trump: “If Governor Carney thinks he is going to make Canada a ‘Drop Off Port’ for China to send goods and products into the United States, he is sorely mistaken … If Canada makes a deal with China, it will immediately be hit with a 100% Tariff against all Canadian goods and products”

    There doesn't seem to be any upsides to working with Trump, since he will alter his stance on a day by day basis.
    He's so God-damned stupid that he doesn't get that Canada wants a deal with China because it's now impossible to do a deal with America, as he can simply blow up such deals at a whim, as he did with NAFTA, and now USMCA (which is his own deal).

    Basically the lesson every sane person has learnt over the last year is that you can't do business with the Americans anymore, the country is run by a lunatic.
    The changeability is worse, in some ways, than any misgivings about his policies or personality - countries do deals with horrible regimes all the time after all.

    Reminds me a bit of a Pratchett bit about a fence having a reputation for honesty (in his own way) and paying his bills, since he'd not get any repeat business otherwise.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,345
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany is facing calls to withdraw its billions of euros’ worth of gold from US vaults, spurred on by the shift in transatlantic relations and the unpredictability of Donald Trump.

    Germany holds the world’s second biggest national gold reserves after the US, of which approximately €164bn (£122bn) worth – 1,236 tonnes – is stored in New York.

    Emanuel Mönch, a leading economist and former head of research at Germany’s federal bank, the Bundesbank, called for the gold to be brought home, saying it was too “risky” for it to be kept in the US under the current administration.

    “Given the current geopolitical situation, it seems risky to store so much gold in the US,” he told the financial newspaper Handelsblatt. “In the interest of greater strategic independence from the US, the Bundesbank would therefore be well advised to consider repatriating the gold.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/24/repatriate-the-gold-german-economists-advise-withdrawal-from-us-vaults

    Fantastic opportunity for a heist movie.
    "Guten Tag! We are here from the German government to take our gold back."
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,629
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany is facing calls to withdraw its billions of euros’ worth of gold from US vaults, spurred on by the shift in transatlantic relations and the unpredictability of Donald Trump.

    Germany holds the world’s second biggest national gold reserves after the US, of which approximately €164bn (£122bn) worth – 1,236 tonnes – is stored in New York.

    Emanuel Mönch, a leading economist and former head of research at Germany’s federal bank, the Bundesbank, called for the gold to be brought home, saying it was too “risky” for it to be kept in the US under the current administration.

    “Given the current geopolitical situation, it seems risky to store so much gold in the US,” he told the financial newspaper Handelsblatt. “In the interest of greater strategic independence from the US, the Bundesbank would therefore be well advised to consider repatriating the gold.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/24/repatriate-the-gold-german-economists-advise-withdrawal-from-us-vaults

    Makes sense. Trump is basically Goldfinger.
    I've never heard him say anything as funny as, "No Mr Bond, I expect you to die."
    Sadly Goldfinger never actually said that, Gert Fröbe being dubbed by an English actor.
    Amazing that he did that and managed to fit in time to go around the Moon on Apollo 11 *and* fight against the British in the Irish War of Independence.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,423

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany is facing calls to withdraw its billions of euros’ worth of gold from US vaults, spurred on by the shift in transatlantic relations and the unpredictability of Donald Trump.

    Germany holds the world’s second biggest national gold reserves after the US, of which approximately €164bn (£122bn) worth – 1,236 tonnes – is stored in New York.

    Emanuel Mönch, a leading economist and former head of research at Germany’s federal bank, the Bundesbank, called for the gold to be brought home, saying it was too “risky” for it to be kept in the US under the current administration.

    “Given the current geopolitical situation, it seems risky to store so much gold in the US,” he told the financial newspaper Handelsblatt. “In the interest of greater strategic independence from the US, the Bundesbank would therefore be well advised to consider repatriating the gold.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/24/repatriate-the-gold-german-economists-advise-withdrawal-from-us-vaults

    Fantastic opportunity for a heist movie.
    "Guten Tag! We are here from the German government to take our gold back."
    "There seems to be a problem with that, Mr Gruber...."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,236
    Phil said:

    The maximum hilarity option will be if Burnham announces he’s standing without resigning the mayoralty & dares the NEC to block him.

    Side question: When was the rule blocking mayors from standing passed? Was it a deliberate “stop Burnham” measure or has it always been there?

    @Phil

    It is a side effect of the Police and Crime Commissioners not being allowed to be MPs. The Mayor of Manchester is also the PCC for Greater Manchester Police, so he cannot be an MP. That has been the case since that role was created. It does not apply to all mayors - I don't know when it became part of the London mayoralty, although it now is, but the only other one affected is West Yorkshire.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,423
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    In defence of historical truth, and write the right paragraphs summing this up for the record books, did Trump have a bit of a truthful point in his attack on NATO over Afghanistan War?

    I am aware Afghanistan is split today, hardliners to the South and east with Supreme Leader, more moderate conservatives to the North and west, who are beginning to get their way a bit over the hardliners.
    I was too young to remember the Afghan war, but looking into it, some NATO countries did insist on national caveats that restricted their troops' engagement levels, which meant they were not deployed on the frontlines in Afghanistan. We lost 457, the US nearly two and half Thousand, France Germany Italy under 100 each.

    Where UK was deployed was certainly front line in those toughest provinces. UK didn’t go with caveats. The defence of Trump is he bundled those without caveats to role so role was same as US in with, in with those with front line engagement caveats, when in Trump {and goodness knows how many other American} minds he’s thinking NATO article 5 invoked by US after it was attacked, but some NATO countries came to help with caveats. On the other hand, if knowingly not tired and ignorantly bundled non caveat’s in with those caveated it’s the very nastiest shocking attack on UK, and at same time as well thirty coalition allies who came to help US did take casualties, so stupid and nasty thing to say and do to all allies who came to help.

    However, to understand it and if clever politics at play here, I do know on research into Hitler NAZI regime, that fascists and populists are noted for cunning politics for focusing much on a bit of actual factual truth in their policy’s and rhetoric, as seen from national or populist point of view plays very well with that crowd, and spinning it and bigging it up from there to win over people, which helps define Trump, Farage etc in how they go about things as different from how decent moderate fair minded politicians go about things.

    I'm sorry I've tried really hard but I don't understand what you're saying. Is it important?

    Yes. It’s bloody important. Try again.
    UK was attacked, we invoked article 5, some NATO members came for a front line role, others with caveats to limit their people getting hurt, which then maximises the amount of front line work others need to do. It becomes a question of what you are thinking, but as internationalists not diplomatically saying, doesn’t it? And such a thing is beautifully ripe for fascists and populists who are always nation comes first-ists, to exploit.
    I’m not in the group who regard Trump and Farage as simpleminded, glib, even bit boorish or stupid. I look on it and regard them as sinister. I thought the book of magic spells had been discredited, deemed too dangerous and put away like at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. And that a note was taken to remember the lessons forever - things like the ECHR set up to keep us in check and help us remember.
    And I’m not wrong.
    I feel like I'm on mushrooms but they're out of season.
    The chocolate 'shrooms is very popular these days....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,502
    The King of the North is leaving it very late. Is he writing two letters?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,645
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Trump administration thinks it’s above the law, part 73:

    ICE flew 2-year-old to Texas despite court order to release her from custody

    https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ice-flew-2-year-old-to-texas-despite-court-order-to-release-her-from-custody/

    Part 74

    @rgoodlaw.bsky.social‬

    On camera: Vance, Noem say ICE doesn’t use race.

    In court: DOJ's filings say the exact opposite.

    Here's what the Justice Department actually told the Supreme Court, and how DOJ defends ICE's use of racially profiling.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rgoodlaw.bsky.social/post/3md6fad3tr22x
    Indeed. ICE are literally arresting people for being brown.
    Indeed, though it's interesting they are afraid so say that in public (but will say it in court)
    Kind of the opposite of most of Trump's legal challenges to the 2020 election, where he and his media supporters would make all sorts of claims in public, then water them down (or not claim them at all) in a court of law.

    Like one where they repeatedly said election observers on their side were not allowed in a room, then confirmed to the judge the observers were in the room.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,645

    The King of the North is leaving it very late. Is he writing two letters?

    Figuring out the best way to say 'I'm coming for you, Starmer' without being too obvious.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,236
    kle4 said:

    The King of the North is leaving it very late. Is he writing two letters?

    Figuring out the best way to say 'I'm coming for you, Starmer' without being too obvious.
    Coming for Starmer?

    He must be finding it hard.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,845
    ydoethur said:

    Phil said:

    The maximum hilarity option will be if Burnham announces he’s standing without resigning the mayoralty & dares the NEC to block him.

    Side question: When was the rule blocking mayors from standing passed? Was it a deliberate “stop Burnham” measure or has it always been there?

    @Phil

    It is a side effect of the Police and Crime Commissioners not being allowed to be MPs. The Mayor of Manchester is also the PCC for Greater Manchester Police, so he cannot be an MP. That has been the case since that role was created. It does not apply to all mayors - I don't know when it became part of the London mayoralty, although it now is, but the only other one affected is West Yorkshire.
    Why does it mean he has to resign as Mayor before running for Parliament? He could get elected, and then step down. That, in fact, seems sensible.

    Although it might be a Labour Party rule as well as the law, and as a party rule apply to all mayoralties
  • Despite all the press hype, Burham would not lose his mayoral role unless he is actually elected as an MP. Therefore, there is no risk to him in standing; if he is blocked or fails at any stage, he is still the mayor.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,722

    Despite all the press hype, Burham would not lose his mayoral role unless he is actually elected as an MP. Therefore, there is no risk to him in standing; if he is blocked or fails at any stage, he is still the mayor.

    Although technically that is true, handing the Mayoralty to Team Putin suggests he is considerably more interested in self agrandisement than either his voters in Greater Manchester or the Labour Party.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,236

    ydoethur said:

    Phil said:

    The maximum hilarity option will be if Burnham announces he’s standing without resigning the mayoralty & dares the NEC to block him.

    Side question: When was the rule blocking mayors from standing passed? Was it a deliberate “stop Burnham” measure or has it always been there?

    @Phil

    It is a side effect of the Police and Crime Commissioners not being allowed to be MPs. The Mayor of Manchester is also the PCC for Greater Manchester Police, so he cannot be an MP. That has been the case since that role was created. It does not apply to all mayors - I don't know when it became part of the London mayoralty, although it now is, but the only other one affected is West Yorkshire.
    Why does it mean he has to resign as Mayor before running for Parliament? He could get elected, and then step down. That, in fact, seems sensible.

    Although it might be a Labour Party rule as well as the law, and as a party rule apply to all mayoralties
    AIUI he wouldn't 'step down' he would (if elected) automatically lose the mayoralty without needing to resign.

    https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/guidance-candidates-and-agents-combined-authority-mayoral-elections/what-you-need-know-you-stand-a-candidate/qualifications-and-disqualifications-standing-election-pcc/disqualifications/members-parliaments-and-assemblies

    Whether that means he can't stand before resigning I am not quite sure. That might be a Labour party matter.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,601

    CatMan said:
    The Tweet came out and was discussed here days ago. That's quick journalism from the Guardian, they'll be reporting on the rise of Tiktok and the difficulty of getting on the property ladder soon.
    It's not a news report though but a profile of these shady networks that fund and dominate the British Right. Actually, Nigel doesn't come out too badly, as it highlights the fact that Jenrick wanted Truss thrown out of the Tory party, so that sort of puts Nigel on the more sensible side of the skirmish in his recruitment policy (though all things are relative).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,502
    edited 3:27PM
    I was just thinking about if others had been Mayor and MP at the same time. And that reminded me of Dan Norris. What a mess of a situation for constituents.

    Dan Norris, MP for North East Somerset and Hanham, was suspended from the Labour Party in April and has not attended Parliament since his release on police bail nine months ago.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2k5dm07j7o

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,645

    ydoethur said:

    Phil said:

    The maximum hilarity option will be if Burnham announces he’s standing without resigning the mayoralty & dares the NEC to block him.

    Side question: When was the rule blocking mayors from standing passed? Was it a deliberate “stop Burnham” measure or has it always been there?

    @Phil

    It is a side effect of the Police and Crime Commissioners not being allowed to be MPs. The Mayor of Manchester is also the PCC for Greater Manchester Police, so he cannot be an MP. That has been the case since that role was created. It does not apply to all mayors - I don't know when it became part of the London mayoralty, although it now is, but the only other one affected is West Yorkshire.
    Why does it mean he has to resign as Mayor before running for Parliament? He could get elected, and then step down. That, in fact, seems sensible.

    Although it might be a Labour Party rule as well as the law, and as a party rule apply to all mayoralties
    Often it is the case that you cannot even be a candidate if at the time of nomination you meet a disqualification criteria. Though that would seem a bit weird in the case of standing for another office, just because you cannot do both simultaneously.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,845

    Despite all the press hype, Burham would not lose his mayoral role unless he is actually elected as an MP. Therefore, there is no risk to him in standing; if he is blocked or fails at any stage, he is still the mayor.

    From what I have seen, Labour Party rules require you to step down first.

    I have always wondered why we do not see devolved roles as good experience for Westminster, but apparently it's not supposed to work that way (and I admit Boris isn't a good example).

    In any sensible country, Mark Drakeford would have been invited into the Labour cabinet after stepping down as FM (I originally assumed he was quite old and probably wanted to retire, but then I saw he came back as Welsh Chancellor or whatever it's called). He has more experience of government than any current Cabinet minister with the possible exceptions of Cooper and Milliband
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,444
    After about 8.00pm Uk time tonight there is a possible first window open for an initial strike on Iran. General conditions favourable.

    Most Western militaries prefer to operate at night initially so, assuming that is the case, you'd assume they go between 8.30 through to about 1-2am UK time.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,722
    edited 3:28PM

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He's awake, and cranky

    @atrupar.com‬

    Trump: “If Governor Carney thinks he is going to make Canada a ‘Drop Off Port’ for China to send goods and products into the United States, he is sorely mistaken … If Canada makes a deal with China, it will immediately be hit with a 100% Tariff against all Canadian goods and products”

    There doesn't seem to be any upsides to working with Trump, since he will alter his stance on a day by day basis.
    He's so God-damned stupid that he doesn't get that Canada wants a deal with China because it's now impossible to do a deal with America, as he can simply blow up such deals at a whim, as he did with NAFTA, and now USMCA (which is his own deal).

    Basically the lesson every sane person has learnt over the last year is that you can't do business with the Americans anymore, the country is run by a lunatic.
    Canada getting into bed with China could escalate into a genuine casus belli.
    Are Canada and China a couple of lesbian porn stars?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,925
    @alexrogerssky
    A number of Labour sources in the north west expect Andy Burnham will put in a nomination for the Gorton and Denton byelection by the 5pm deadline, with an announcement expected later today - but watch this space

    The speculation is that Burnham expects to be blocked by the NEC - thereby triggering a wave of support which strengthens his position and weakens the PM's
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,093

    Despite all the press hype, Burham would not lose his mayoral role unless he is actually elected as an MP. Therefore, there is no risk to him in standing; if he is blocked or fails at any stage, he is still the mayor.

    Isnt he required to stand down first?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,973

    ydoethur said:

    Phil said:

    The maximum hilarity option will be if Burnham announces he’s standing without resigning the mayoralty & dares the NEC to block him.

    Side question: When was the rule blocking mayors from standing passed? Was it a deliberate “stop Burnham” measure or has it always been there?

    @Phil

    It is a side effect of the Police and Crime Commissioners not being allowed to be MPs. The Mayor of Manchester is also the PCC for Greater Manchester Police, so he cannot be an MP. That has been the case since that role was created. It does not apply to all mayors - I don't know when it became part of the London mayoralty, although it now is, but the only other one affected is West Yorkshire.
    Why does it mean he has to resign as Mayor before running for Parliament? He could get elected, and then step down. That, in fact, seems sensible.

    Although it might be a Labour Party rule as well as the law, and as a party rule apply to all mayoralties
    In the other direction Brabin resigned as an MP only upon winning the mayoral election, so I'm not sure why it wouldn't apply exactly the same the other way.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,502

    ydoethur said:

    Phil said:

    The maximum hilarity option will be if Burnham announces he’s standing without resigning the mayoralty & dares the NEC to block him.

    Side question: When was the rule blocking mayors from standing passed? Was it a deliberate “stop Burnham” measure or has it always been there?

    @Phil

    It is a side effect of the Police and Crime Commissioners not being allowed to be MPs. The Mayor of Manchester is also the PCC for Greater Manchester Police, so he cannot be an MP. That has been the case since that role was created. It does not apply to all mayors - I don't know when it became part of the London mayoralty, although it now is, but the only other one affected is West Yorkshire.
    Why does it mean he has to resign as Mayor before running for Parliament? He could get elected, and then step down. That, in fact, seems sensible.

    Although it might be a Labour Party rule as well as the law, and as a party rule apply to all mayoralties
    There’s no law about standing, but if elected to Parliament he vacates the Mayorality.

    It’s all going to be Labour Party rules and machinations before that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,645

    Despite all the press hype, Burham would not lose his mayoral role unless he is actually elected as an MP. Therefore, there is no risk to him in standing; if he is blocked or fails at any stage, he is still the mayor.

    From what I have seen, Labour Party rules require you to step down first.

    I have always wondered why we do not see devolved roles as good experience for Westminster, but apparently it's not supposed to work that way (and I admit Boris isn't a good example).

    In any sensible country, Mark Drakeford would have been invited into the Labour cabinet after stepping down as FM (I originally assumed he was quite old and probably wanted to retire, but then I saw he came back as Welsh Chancellor or whatever it's called). He has more experience of government than any current Cabinet minister with the possible exceptions of Cooper and Milliband
    Most of our mayors are pretty new and have been pretty limited in authority, so it was not especially good experience, but then in fairness what is? Being a councillor has some similarities but is very different in others.

    I expect in time it will become more and more common, if the goverment's plans to get mayors everywhere in England come to fruition. And it might cause some friction, either with ex-MPs getting the good gigs (as we've already seen in places), or mayors coming into Parliament assuming they should get high profile jobs immediately because they were a mayor.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,502
    Scott_xP said:

    @alexrogerssky
    A number of Labour sources in the north west expect Andy Burnham will put in a nomination for the Gorton and Denton byelection by the 5pm deadline, with an announcement expected later today - but watch this space

    The speculation is that Burnham expects to be blocked by the NEC - thereby triggering a wave of support which strengthens his position and weakens the PM's

    A different week, a different party having psychodrama.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,722
    Scott_xP said:

    @alexrogerssky
    A number of Labour sources in the north west expect Andy Burnham will put in a nomination for the Gorton and Denton byelection by the 5pm deadline, with an announcement expected later today - but watch this space

    The speculation is that Burnham expects to be blocked by the NEC - thereby triggering a wave of support which strengthens his position and weakens the PM's

    This is a key reason Burnham is unfit for high office. It's Johnson redux.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,722
    Andy_JS said:

    Despite all the press hype, Burham would not lose his mayoral role unless he is actually elected as an MP. Therefore, there is no risk to him in standing; if he is blocked or fails at any stage, he is still the mayor.

    Isnt he required to stand down first?
    I don't believe so.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,645

    I was just thinking about if others had been Mayor and MP at the same time. And that reminded me of Dan Norris. What a mess of a situation for constituents.

    Dan Norris, MP for North East Somerset and Hanham, was suspended from the Labour Party in April and has not attended Parliament since his release on police bail nine months ago.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2k5dm07j7o

    That reminds me of how his successor as Mayor won on 25% of the vote.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,845
    kle4 said:

    Despite all the press hype, Burham would not lose his mayoral role unless he is actually elected as an MP. Therefore, there is no risk to him in standing; if he is blocked or fails at any stage, he is still the mayor.

    From what I have seen, Labour Party rules require you to step down first.

    I have always wondered why we do not see devolved roles as good experience for Westminster, but apparently it's not supposed to work that way (and I admit Boris isn't a good example).

    In any sensible country, Mark Drakeford would have been invited into the Labour cabinet after stepping down as FM (I originally assumed he was quite old and probably wanted to retire, but then I saw he came back as Welsh Chancellor or whatever it's called). He has more experience of government than any current Cabinet minister with the possible exceptions of Cooper and Milliband
    Most of our mayors are pretty new and have been pretty limited in authority, so it was not especially good experience, but then in fairness what is? Being a councillor has some similarities but is very different in others.

    I expect in time it will become more and more common, if the goverment's plans to get mayors everywhere in England come to fruition. And it might cause some friction, either with ex-MPs getting the good gigs (as we've already seen in places), or mayors coming into Parliament assuming they should get high profile jobs immediately because they were a mayor.
    Well, if the ex-mayor has executive experience, and a time served MP doesn't, then all things being equal you should give the job to the person with experience. It's about time we realised that being an MP is about being a legislator and does not of itself qualify to you to be a minister.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,601
    Andy_JS said:

    Despite all the press hype, Burham would not lose his mayoral role unless he is actually elected as an MP. Therefore, there is no risk to him in standing; if he is blocked or fails at any stage, he is still the mayor.

    Isnt he required to stand down first?
    I seem to remember that Boris didn't resign his parliamentary seat until after he'd won the London mayoralty. Presumably the idea was that he'd stay on as an MP if he lost. Won't it be the same rules in Manchester?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,200

    Andy_JS said:

    Despite all the press hype, Burham would not lose his mayoral role unless he is actually elected as an MP. Therefore, there is no risk to him in standing; if he is blocked or fails at any stage, he is still the mayor.

    Isnt he required to stand down first?
    I seem to remember that Boris didn't resign his parliamentary seat until after he'd won the London mayoralty. Presumably the idea was that he'd stay on as an MP if he lost. Won't it be the same rules in Manchester?
    I think it’s a party rule
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,722

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexrogerssky
    A number of Labour sources in the north west expect Andy Burnham will put in a nomination for the Gorton and Denton byelection by the 5pm deadline, with an announcement expected later today - but watch this space

    The speculation is that Burnham expects to be blocked by the NEC - thereby triggering a wave of support which strengthens his position and weakens the PM's

    A different week, a different party having psychodrama.
    It is very much a construct of right wing media and Burnham's ego.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,973
    edited 3:35PM
    Pro_Rata said:

    ydoethur said:

    Phil said:

    The maximum hilarity option will be if Burnham announces he’s standing without resigning the mayoralty & dares the NEC to block him.

    Side question: When was the rule blocking mayors from standing passed? Was it a deliberate “stop Burnham” measure or has it always been there?

    @Phil

    It is a side effect of the Police and Crime Commissioners not being allowed to be MPs. The Mayor of Manchester is also the PCC for Greater Manchester Police, so he cannot be an MP. That has been the case since that role was created. It does not apply to all mayors - I don't know when it became part of the London mayoralty, although it now is, but the only other one affected is West Yorkshire.
    Why does it mean he has to resign as Mayor before running for Parliament? He could get elected, and then step down. That, in fact, seems sensible.

    Although it might be a Labour Party rule as well as the law, and as a party rule apply to all mayoralties
    In the other direction Brabin resigned as an MP only upon winning the mayoral election, so I'm not sure why it wouldn't apply exactly the same the other way.
    An example in the same direction as Burnham would be doing, given that it is the PCC role that is restrictive here.

    Festus Akinbusoye stood as the Conservative candidate in the Mid Bedfordshire by-election whilst PCC for Bedfordshire, and retained the latter role when he lost.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,502
    edited 3:36PM

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexrogerssky
    A number of Labour sources in the north west expect Andy Burnham will put in a nomination for the Gorton and Denton byelection by the 5pm deadline, with an announcement expected later today - but watch this space

    The speculation is that Burnham expects to be blocked by the NEC - thereby triggering a wave of support which strengthens his position and weakens the PM's

    A different week, a different party having psychodrama.
    It is very much a construct of right wing media and Burnham's ego.
    How so? All this Team Starmer will block Burnham standing angle hasn't been coming from right wing media.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,645
    If it is party rules that now require standing down before being a candidate, then I wonder if the rules permit the waiving of that rule by the NEC. Often wiggle room is built into the rules.

    When Corbyn was barred there was a lot of nonsence spoken about challenges when IIRC the party rules were very clear that the NEC could do it. Whether they should was a separate question entirely.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,722
    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Despite all the press hype, Burham would not lose his mayoral role unless he is actually elected as an MP. Therefore, there is no risk to him in standing; if he is blocked or fails at any stage, he is still the mayor.

    Isnt he required to stand down first?
    I seem to remember that Boris didn't resign his parliamentary seat until after he'd won the London mayoralty. Presumably the idea was that he'd stay on as an MP if he lost. Won't it be the same rules in Manchester?
    I think it’s a party rule
    Isn't the difference the PPC issue? Is Khan PPC?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,966
    edited 3:40PM
    Andy_JS said:

    Despite all the press hype, Burham would not lose his mayoral role unless he is actually elected as an MP. Therefore, there is no risk to him in standing; if he is blocked or fails at any stage, he is still the mayor.

    Isnt he required to stand down first?
    Have the rules changed since Johnson was Mayor of London? He was elected as MP in 2015 and didn't step down as Mayor until the new mayoral elections in 2016.

    Edit: Apologies Stark Dawning I see you have made the same point below
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,722

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexrogerssky
    A number of Labour sources in the north west expect Andy Burnham will put in a nomination for the Gorton and Denton byelection by the 5pm deadline, with an announcement expected later today - but watch this space

    The speculation is that Burnham expects to be blocked by the NEC - thereby triggering a wave of support which strengthens his position and weakens the PM's

    A different week, a different party having psychodrama.
    It is very much a construct of right wing media and Burnham's ego.
    How so? All this Team Starmer will block Burnham standing angle hasn't been coming from right wing media.
    If course it has.

    My own view is Burnham is mischief making in conjunction with the media.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,645

    kle4 said:

    Despite all the press hype, Burham would not lose his mayoral role unless he is actually elected as an MP. Therefore, there is no risk to him in standing; if he is blocked or fails at any stage, he is still the mayor.

    From what I have seen, Labour Party rules require you to step down first.

    I have always wondered why we do not see devolved roles as good experience for Westminster, but apparently it's not supposed to work that way (and I admit Boris isn't a good example).

    In any sensible country, Mark Drakeford would have been invited into the Labour cabinet after stepping down as FM (I originally assumed he was quite old and probably wanted to retire, but then I saw he came back as Welsh Chancellor or whatever it's called). He has more experience of government than any current Cabinet minister with the possible exceptions of Cooper and Milliband
    Most of our mayors are pretty new and have been pretty limited in authority, so it was not especially good experience, but then in fairness what is? Being a councillor has some similarities but is very different in others.

    I expect in time it will become more and more common, if the goverment's plans to get mayors everywhere in England come to fruition. And it might cause some friction, either with ex-MPs getting the good gigs (as we've already seen in places), or mayors coming into Parliament assuming they should get high profile jobs immediately because they were a mayor.
    Well, if the ex-mayor has executive experience, and a time served MP doesn't, then all things being equal you should give the job to the person with experience. It's about time we realised that being an MP is about being a legislator and does not of itself qualify to you to be a minister.
    Possibly, but being a leader in parliament requires being able to manage your fellow MPs too (one reason Corbyn had trouble right from the start), and some ex-mayor coming in with a big ego because they were used to being big boots elsewhere could face challenges.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,836

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexrogerssky
    A number of Labour sources in the north west expect Andy Burnham will put in a nomination for the Gorton and Denton byelection by the 5pm deadline, with an announcement expected later today - but watch this space

    The speculation is that Burnham expects to be blocked by the NEC - thereby triggering a wave of support which strengthens his position and weakens the PM's

    This is a key reason Burnham is unfit for high office. It's Johnson redux.
    With Leave winning the Ref = the NEC *not* blocking him?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,502
    edited 3:44PM

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexrogerssky
    A number of Labour sources in the north west expect Andy Burnham will put in a nomination for the Gorton and Denton byelection by the 5pm deadline, with an announcement expected later today - but watch this space

    The speculation is that Burnham expects to be blocked by the NEC - thereby triggering a wave of support which strengthens his position and weakens the PM's

    A different week, a different party having psychodrama.
    It is very much a construct of right wing media and Burnham's ego.
    How so? All this Team Starmer will block Burnham standing angle hasn't been coming from right wing media.
    If course it has.

    My own view is Burnham is mischief making in conjunction with the media.
    Are you suggesting the likes of the Guardian are now part of the right wing media?

    Then he faces the challenge of getting selected by a panel of the party’s ruling national executive committee. Four NEC members who spoke to the Guardian gave his chances of being selected by that body as “zero”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/22/andy-burnham-labour-nec-parliament-analysis

    Along with Sky, BBC Newsnight, basically anybody with a microphone, twitter account or column in a media have been given the briefing that Team Starmer hate Burnham and they have a load of ways to block him which they will deploy.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,925
    ICE just executed another observer in Minnesota
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,973
    edited 3:49PM
    Another thought that may run counter to the prevailing logic today.

    It has been commented that Labour moved at lightning speed on the nomination process, which could facilitate a February by-election.

    I believe all of Greater Manchester has elections in the locals round, so this speed could be seen a facilitating a mayoral election to take place in May, reducing the additional cost.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,501
    Root's out. Not sure England have this in the bag yet!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,722
    edited 3:51PM

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexrogerssky
    A number of Labour sources in the north west expect Andy Burnham will put in a nomination for the Gorton and Denton byelection by the 5pm deadline, with an announcement expected later today - but watch this space

    The speculation is that Burnham expects to be blocked by the NEC - thereby triggering a wave of support which strengthens his position and weakens the PM's

    A different week, a different party having psychodrama.
    It is very much a construct of right wing media and Burnham's ego.
    How so? All this Team Starmer will block Burnham standing angle hasn't been coming from right wing media.
    If course it has.

    My own view is Burnham is mischief making in conjunction with the media.
    Are you suggesting the likes of the Guardian are now part of the right wing media?

    Then he faces the challenge of getting selected by a panel of the party’s ruling national executive committee. Four NEC members who spoke to the Guardian gave his chances of being selected by that body as “zero”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/22/andy-burnham-labour-nec-parliament-analysis

    Along with Sky, BBC Newsnight, basically anybody with a microphone, twitter account or column in a media have been given the briefing that Team Starmer hate Burnham and they have a load of ways to block him which they will deploy.
    Burnham is mischief making to feather his own nest. Media hacks see it as an embarrassment to Starmer to block Burnham which is why the press are keen for Burnham to run.

    Humiliating Starmer and Labour is why PB Tories are desperate for him to run. Burnham isn't very bright is he?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,828
    Scott_xP said:

    ICE just executed another observer in Minnesota

    They’re Trumps own Death Squad!

    The USA is fast becoming a pariah state and a third world cesspit .
  • isamisam Posts: 43,418

    Root's out. Not sure England have this in the bag yet!

    and Brook
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,027

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexrogerssky
    A number of Labour sources in the north west expect Andy Burnham will put in a nomination for the Gorton and Denton byelection by the 5pm deadline, with an announcement expected later today - but watch this space

    The speculation is that Burnham expects to be blocked by the NEC - thereby triggering a wave of support which strengthens his position and weakens the PM's

    A different week, a different party having psychodrama.
    It is very much a construct of right wing media and Burnham's ego.
    How so? All this Team Starmer will block Burnham standing angle hasn't been coming from right wing media.
    If course it has.

    My own view is Burnham is mischief making in conjunction with the media.
    You seem quite upset by all this but to try to pin this on right wing media is simply nonsense

    This is being led by Angela Rayner and others very much supported by many on the left

    Of coarse it will cause a fracture in labour whether he stands or doesn't but the person to look at here is Starmer who simply has not performed to any credible level
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,502
    edited 3:52PM

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexrogerssky
    A number of Labour sources in the north west expect Andy Burnham will put in a nomination for the Gorton and Denton byelection by the 5pm deadline, with an announcement expected later today - but watch this space

    The speculation is that Burnham expects to be blocked by the NEC - thereby triggering a wave of support which strengthens his position and weakens the PM's

    A different week, a different party having psychodrama.
    It is very much a construct of right wing media and Burnham's ego.
    How so? All this Team Starmer will block Burnham standing angle hasn't been coming from right wing media.
    If course it has.

    My own view is Burnham is mischief making in conjunction with the media.
    Are you suggesting the likes of the Guardian are now part of the right wing media?

    Then he faces the challenge of getting selected by a panel of the party’s ruling national executive committee. Four NEC members who spoke to the Guardian gave his chances of being selected by that body as “zero”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/22/andy-burnham-labour-nec-parliament-analysis

    Along with Sky, BBC Newsnight, basically anybody with a microphone, twitter account or column in a media have been given the briefing that Team Starmer hate Burnham and they have a load of ways to block him which they will deploy.
    Burnham is mischief making to feather his own nest. Media hacks see it as an embarrassment to Starmer to block Burnham which is why the press are keen for Burnham to run.
    Burnham might be, but I am not following your logic on this big right wing conspiracy. If it was the Telegraphs says anonymous sources say Starmer will block him standing, sure, with you. But Guardian journalist says 4 NEC members have said they won't allow his selection, that is quite different, its a very specific claim.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,502
    Good job England bat deep.......
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,236
    edited 3:55PM
    Good job England bat deep...

    says everyone apparently!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,027
    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ICE just executed another observer in Minnesota

    They’re Trumps own Death Squad!

    The USA is fast becoming a pariah state and a third world cesspit .
    It is simply horrible and makes one despair
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,435

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ICE just executed another observer in Minnesota

    They’re Trumps own Death Squad!

    The USA is fast becoming a pariah state and a third world cesspit .
    It is simply horrible and makes one despair
    Is this another reference to England's batting?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,722

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexrogerssky
    A number of Labour sources in the north west expect Andy Burnham will put in a nomination for the Gorton and Denton byelection by the 5pm deadline, with an announcement expected later today - but watch this space

    The speculation is that Burnham expects to be blocked by the NEC - thereby triggering a wave of support which strengthens his position and weakens the PM's

    A different week, a different party having psychodrama.
    It is very much a construct of right wing media and Burnham's ego.
    How so? All this Team Starmer will block Burnham standing angle hasn't been coming from right wing media.
    If course it has.

    My own view is Burnham is mischief making in conjunction with the media.
    You seem quite upset by all this but to try to pin this on right wing media is simply nonsense

    This is being led by Angela Rayner and others very much supported by many on the left

    Of coarse it will cause a fracture in labour whether he stands or doesn't but the person to look at here is Starmer who simply has not performed to any credible level
    Burnham going for Gorton promotes Reform at a time where the Government are under pressure. Now you would prefer to see benefits for both Conservative and Reform at the expense of a party that isn't Reform or the Conservatives. I agree that Starmer has been a poor Prime Minister but my beef with Burnham he is digging the hole deeper and his ambition is assisting Farage.

    I don't believe, and I am sure you agree, that Burnham would be anything other than an inadequate Prime Minister.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,444
    On topic. Are we sure that Burnham's popularity within the party will quite translate to the rest of the voting public?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,737
    kle4 said:

    If it is party rules that now require standing down before being a candidate, then I wonder if the rules permit the waiving of that rule by the NEC. Often wiggle room is built into the rules.

    When Corbyn was barred there was a lot of nonsence spoken about challenges when IIRC the party rules were very clear that the NEC could do it. Whether they should was a separate question entirely.

    Erskine May says a PCC becomes disqualified to be a PCC if they become an MP.

    https://erskinemay.parliament.uk/section/5408/police-and-crime-commissioners-and-elected-mayors#:~:text=Footnotes,Police and Crime Commissioner functions.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,737
    Yokes said:

    On topic. Are we sure that Burnham's popularity within the party will quite translate to the rest of the voting public?

    Take a wild guess.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,645
    Yokes said:

    On topic. Are we sure that Burnham's popularity within the party will quite translate to the rest of the voting public?

    Nothing is certain, but it sounds unlikely. Ed M is also very popular within the party of course.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,186

    viewcode said:

    I am on a train. It was crowded so I went for the first-class upgrade. I'm in my first class seat. It is full of people in groups TALKING TO EACH OTHER. BASTARDS. Apparently Amy would like a cat. One couple are sitting in separate seats. LISA HAVE YOU GOT THE TICKETS. One guy asked if the other ever had a beard. I cannot use this information.

    I'm sorry, this is unacceptable. I want studious young men on laptops. Middle aged men with nose hair and good suits who work in the City. Prissy older women who look like Theresa May and tut if somebody says something. England, you have disappointed me.

    Came back from Japan to Heathrow before Christmas. V long flight, bit grumpy and tired. Booked 1st class upgrades on seatfrog for train out of Paddington to Exeter as thought it would be worth it on this occasion.

    Board train:
    - 1st class is rammed;
    - there's a proper dining car, with space for standard class passengers. I could have sat in that and had lunch for the price of my upgrade;
    - after a walk up and down the length of the train it becomes apparent that standard class is not only less busy but the carriages are also cooler, and the only 2 people talking self-importantly on their phones on the whole train are in first class.

    FFAS !
    My bus to the toon the other day. Guy sitting in the seat on the opposite site to me picking his nose, looking at it, flicking it, and biting his nails all through the journey. No spare seats and I can see it out of the corner of my eye.

    I’m not a violent person, I have not thrown a punch in anger since I was at school, but I really wanted to do him some damage.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,236
    So despite the best efforts of @DavidL England win by five wickets.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,501
    edited 4:11PM
    Five wicket win. Thank the Lord for that!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,722
    kle4 said:

    Yokes said:

    On topic. Are we sure that Burnham's popularity within the party will quite translate to the rest of the voting public?

    Nothing is certain, but it sounds unlikely. Ed M is also very popular within the party of course.
    Another has been who had his chance and blew it.
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