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The annual St John PB Christmas crossword – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,272
    edited 11:35AM
    stodge said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    I've long argued the current situation suits a lot of the players including Putin and Zelensky as it legitimises both of them in power.

    The Russians, Ukrainians and others doing the fighting and dying are the losers but no one worries about them.

    The entire defence industry, from analysts to manufacturers, has done very well out of this war. It has pushed itself up the political agenda and persuaded western Governments Russia is a military colossus equivalent to the Warsaw Pact (it can't even reach Kharkiv) and more public funds have to be thrown at defence meaning more weapons to be manufactured and sold and more defence analysts appearing on talk shows telling us what a threat Russia is and if you don't accept the argument they are a conventional military threat, the argument shifts to cyber warfare and how they could shut down the Internet.

    The defence industry is also learning about how wars are fought in the first quarter of the 21st century, the power of drones to strike far beyond the frontlines, the vulnerability of armour etc, etc. That will shape defence strategies and scenarios for decades to come.

    The arms manufacturers, whether State owned or private, have also done well with demand for their products, funding for R&D and Government approval - the last thing any of them want is peace.
    You think Zelensky wants to stay in power indefinitely? I'm not convinced. You're also ignoring that Ukraine accepted a ceasefire back in March but Russia has stalled again and again. I can't help but think you are looking for a both sidesism argument to justify isolationism.

    Complaining about the military industrial complex also seems rather odd when defence spending is so historically low. Is Russia a massive threat.? Well it ought not to be able to win a war against a united Europe (US seems to have lost interest) but that is somewhat besides the point. It is a nuclear armed country seeking to rebuild a European Empire and has the China on its side. A country which is a rising superpower and intends to undermine democracy and freedom. Which has just been given access to advance chip technology by the Trump administration. The world is in a very precarious moment. The liberal desire to play it down seems oddly parochial.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,424
    algarkirk said:

    Reeves' £1bn Boxing Day sales slump
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15413473/Reeves-1bn-Boxing-Day-sales-slump-Retailers.html

    Tonight's lottery numbers are on page 94.

    I'm planning to venture down Oxford Street later today. It's good to know that it's not going to be too crowded.
    I shall be taking the Daily Mail's advice and having a walk in the woods and not going within several miles of a shop. I blame the government. And it's the time of year to read Hardy's 'The Darkling Thrush'.

    That is a fabulous poem!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,411

    Am I right in thinking in that there is no wicketkeeper in the England squad other than Smith?

    If they ask me, I may be able to make it over there for the final test. I have the correct surname, and in every other respect can offer more than the current incumbent.

    Pope is essentially acting as the wicket keeping understudy, though they also have the Lions squad in Australia.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 47,232
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic I think Mercedes and Red Bull's engines should be banned as they current are for F1 2026. If Mercedes only supplied one team they clearly would be banned, it's essentially paying ransom if they're allowed in their current form.

    Not swayed by the argument they're being innovative and it's a grey area?
    No. They run into higher ratios by design. That's like, bear with me on the analogy, having a plank that organically grows back at the point of testing. If it was known to run thin during the race by design teams would be DQ for it regardless of the thickness at point of testing.
    Or imagine the teams had a button the driver could push that unfurled a new plank from the sides at the end of a race from the side skirts to be compliant; however they ran the whole race at a ridiculous 2 mm or something like that. Would that be allowed ?
    2mm might be quite sufficient to change the aerodynamics at that point. Who knows?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,411

    Ukrainians spent Chrstmas Day hunting Russian artillery. Claimed are just 3 tanks, 3 armoured fighting vehicles, but 74 artillery pieces.

    Russian artillery losses have started trending back up again after a long period of trending down.

    The explanation for the reductions in losses was that the Russians were firing less artillery shells (they've concentrated on drones over artillery shells), so there was less opportunity to identify artillery and destroy it.

    I haven't heard of an explanation for the recent increase.

    Looks like the Ukrainians are in a spot of bother in Huliapole today, while the Russian defeat around Kupiansk is causing recriminations along the Russians. No prizes for guessing which area of the front Putin will be hearing more about.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,721

    algarkirk said:

    Reeves' £1bn Boxing Day sales slump
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15413473/Reeves-1bn-Boxing-Day-sales-slump-Retailers.html

    Tonight's lottery numbers are on page 94.

    I'm planning to venture down Oxford Street later today. It's good to know that it's not going to be too crowded.
    I shall be taking the Daily Mail's advice and having a walk in the woods and not going within several miles of a shop. I blame the government. And it's the time of year to read Hardy's 'The Darkling Thrush'.

    That is a fabulous poem!
    Hardy's poetry is much better than his novels, IMO.

    Which reminds me - is cold lasagne better than cold pizza (again, IMO, yes) ?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,183

    stodge said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    I've long argued the current situation suits a lot of the players including Putin and Zelensky as it legitimises both of them in power.

    The Russians, Ukrainians and others doing the fighting and dying are the losers but no one worries about them.

    The entire defence industry, from analysts to manufacturers, has done very well out of this war. It has pushed itself up the political agenda and persuaded western Governments Russia is a military colossus equivalent to the Warsaw Pact (it can't even reach Kharkiv) and more public funds have to be thrown at defence meaning more weapons to be manufactured and sold and more defence analysts appearing on talk shows telling us what a threat Russia is and if you don't accept the argument they are a conventional military threat, the argument shifts to cyber warfare and how they could shut down the Internet.

    The defence industry is also learning about how wars are fought in the first quarter of the 21st century, the power of drones to strike far beyond the frontlines, the vulnerability of armour etc, etc. That will shape defence strategies and scenarios for decades to come.

    The arms manufacturers, whether State owned or private, have also done well with demand for their products, funding for R&D and Government approval - the last thing any of them want is peace.
    You think Zelensky wants to stay in power indefinitely? I'm not convinced. You're also ignoring that Ukraine accepted a ceasefire back in March but Russia has stalled again and again. I can't help but think you are looking for a both sidesism argument to justify isolationism.

    Complaining about the military industrial complex also seems rather odd when defence spending is so historically low. Is Russia a massive threat.? Well it ought not to be able to win a war against a united Europe (US seems to have lost interest) but that is somewhat besides the point. It is a nuclear armed country seeking to rebuild a European Empire and has the China on its side. A country which is a rising superpower and intends to undermine democracy and freedom. Which has just been given access to advance chip technology by the Trump administration. The world is in a very precarious moment. The liberal desire to play it down seems oddly parochial.
    The argument you’re responding to tends to rob the Ukrainians of any agency. There’s no evidence that that any significant section of the population wants to yield to Russia.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,183

    Ukrainians spent Chrstmas Day hunting Russian artillery. Claimed are just 3 tanks, 3 armoured fighting vehicles, but 74 artillery pieces.

    Russian artillery losses have started trending back up again after a long period of trending down.

    The explanation for the reductions in losses was that the Russians were firing less artillery shells (they've concentrated on drones over artillery shells), so there was less opportunity to identify artillery and destroy it.

    I haven't heard of an explanation for the recent increase.

    Looks like the Ukrainians are in a spot of bother in Huliapole today, while the Russian defeat around Kupiansk is causing recriminations along the Russians. No prizes for guessing which area of the front Putin will be hearing more about.
    The big weakness of autocracies is that people can’t give bad news to their superiors. Whereas, to succeed, you need to hear bad news as soon as possible.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,424
    edited 11:55AM
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Reeves' £1bn Boxing Day sales slump
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15413473/Reeves-1bn-Boxing-Day-sales-slump-Retailers.html

    Tonight's lottery numbers are on page 94.

    I'm planning to venture down Oxford Street later today. It's good to know that it's not going to be too crowded.
    I shall be taking the Daily Mail's advice and having a walk in the woods and not going within several miles of a shop. I blame the government. And it's the time of year to read Hardy's 'The Darkling Thrush'.

    That is a fabulous poem!
    Hardy's poetry is much better than his novels, IMO.

    Which reminds me - is cold lasagne better than cold pizza (again, IMO, yes) ?
    I think they're both great. Tess (this especially), Mayor and Jude are three of the best novels ever written in English, but yes, if I had to choose whether to preserve his poetry or his novels I'd opt for the poetry.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,110

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Reeves' £1bn Boxing Day sales slump
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15413473/Reeves-1bn-Boxing-Day-sales-slump-Retailers.html

    Tonight's lottery numbers are on page 94.

    I'm planning to venture down Oxford Street later today. It's good to know that it's not going to be too crowded.
    I shall be taking the Daily Mail's advice and having a walk in the woods and not going within several miles of a shop. I blame the government. And it's the time of year to read Hardy's 'The Darkling Thrush'.

    That is a fabulous poem!
    Hardy's poetry is much better than his novels, IMO.

    Which reminds me - is cold lasagne better than cold pizza (again, IMO, yes) ?
    I think they're both great. Tess (this especially), Mayor and Jude are three of the best novels ever written in English, but yes, if I had to choose whether to preserve his poetry or his novels I'd opt for the poetry.
    Apparently he regarded himself as a poet who wrote novels for money. I'm glad he wrote both.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,317
    Sandpit said:

    So unlucky for Joe Root, only 100 runs short of getting his first Test century in Australia.

    sun getting too much for you dear?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 47,232

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Reeves' £1bn Boxing Day sales slump
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15413473/Reeves-1bn-Boxing-Day-sales-slump-Retailers.html

    Tonight's lottery numbers are on page 94.

    I'm planning to venture down Oxford Street later today. It's good to know that it's not going to be too crowded.
    I shall be taking the Daily Mail's advice and having a walk in the woods and not going within several miles of a shop. I blame the government. And it's the time of year to read Hardy's 'The Darkling Thrush'.

    That is a fabulous poem!
    Hardy's poetry is much better than his novels, IMO.

    Which reminds me - is cold lasagne better than cold pizza (again, IMO, yes) ?
    I think they're both great. Tess (this especially), Mayor and Jude are three of the best novels ever written in English, but yes, if I had to choose whether to preserve his poetry or his novels I'd opt for the poetry.
    Apparently he regarded himself as a poet who wrote novels for money. I'm glad he wrote both.
    Visited his birthplace some years back - Mrs C and I walked there from Dorchester/Casterbridge and looped back over the heath, finding ourselves to our pleased surprise on what must be

    The Roman Road runs straight and bare
    As the pale parting-line in hair
    Across the heath. And thoughtful men
    Contrast its days of Now and Then,
    And delve, and measure, and compare;

    Visioning on the vacant air
    Helmed legionaries, who proudly rear
    The Eagle, as they pace again
    The Roman Road.

    But no tall brass-helmed legionnaire
    Haunts it for me. Uprises there
    A mother's form upon my ken,
    Guiding my infant steps, as when
    We walked that ancient thoroughfare,
    The Roman Road.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,110

    The sad fact is that Ukraine's relatively successful defence makes the war look attritional and hides it's underlying reason which people are minded to forget.

    The desire of one country to destroy another.

    The purpose of the war is to keep Putin and his chums in power. So far it has been successful. The longer term prognosis for Russia is very poor. Xi can't believe his luck.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 47,232
    edited 12:03PM
    English Heritage has just emailed me with, inter aliis, a recipe for potted swan (no turkeys then). Mightr be useful for some of us with a big cooked bird.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YqMwKxMwyA
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,520

    Ukrainians spent Chrstmas Day hunting Russian artillery. Claimed are just 3 tanks, 3 armoured fighting vehicles, but 74 artillery pieces.

    Russian artillery losses have started trending back up again after a long period of trending down.

    The explanation for the reductions in losses was that the Russians were firing less artillery shells (they've concentrated on drones over artillery shells), so there was less opportunity to identify artillery and destroy it.

    I haven't heard of an explanation for the recent increase.

    Looks like the Ukrainians are in a spot of bother in Huliapole today, while the Russian defeat around Kupiansk is causing recriminations along the Russians. No prizes for guessing which area of the front Putin will be hearing more about.
    Isn't it as simple as the Russians running out of Tanks and AFV's, coupled by artillery barrels wearing out so needing to be futher forward?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,272

    The sad fact is that Ukraine's relatively successful defence makes the war look attritional and hides it's underlying reason which people are minded to forget.

    The desire of one country to destroy another.

    The purpose of the war is to keep Putin and his chums in power. So far it has been successful. The longer term prognosis for Russia is very poor. Xi can't believe his luck.
    I suspect Xi has rather mixed feelings. The war has helped China in certain ways and could in the longer term help them become increasingly dominant in Siberia and central Asia. However Russia was a useful buttress against the west. If it is no longer a serious military threat going forward all the attention can turn to China.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,110

    Am I right in thinking in that there is no wicketkeeper in the England squad other than Smith?

    If they ask me, I may be able to make it over there for the final test. I have the correct surname, and in every other respect can offer more than the current incumbent.

    Pope is essentially acting as the wicket keeping understudy, though they also have the Lions squad in Australia.
    Not sure that really works.

    Jamie Smith's selection has tested to destruction the theory that you can do without a proper wicketkeeper and pick instead a batsman who knows how to put the gloves on.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,952

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Reeves' £1bn Boxing Day sales slump
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15413473/Reeves-1bn-Boxing-Day-sales-slump-Retailers.html

    Tonight's lottery numbers are on page 94.

    I'm planning to venture down Oxford Street later today. It's good to know that it's not going to be too crowded.
    I shall be taking the Daily Mail's advice and having a walk in the woods and not going within several miles of a shop. I blame the government. And it's the time of year to read Hardy's 'The Darkling Thrush'.

    That is a fabulous poem!
    Hardy's poetry is much better than his novels, IMO.

    Which reminds me - is cold lasagne better than cold pizza (again, IMO, yes) ?
    I think they're both great. Tess (this especially), Mayor and Jude are three of the best novels ever written in English, but yes, if I had to choose whether to preserve his poetry or his novels I'd opt for the poetry.
    Apparently he regarded himself as a poet who wrote novels for money. I'm glad he wrote both.
    Love the Monty Python sketch of him writing the Return of the Native "and he acknowledges this very good-natured Bank Holiday crowd...."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogPZ5CY9KoM
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,110

    The sad fact is that Ukraine's relatively successful defence makes the war look attritional and hides it's underlying reason which people are minded to forget.

    The desire of one country to destroy another.

    The purpose of the war is to keep Putin and his chums in power. So far it has been successful. The longer term prognosis for Russia is very poor. Xi can't believe his luck.
    I suspect Xi has rather mixed feelings. The war has helped China in certain ways and could in the longer term help them become increasingly dominant in Siberia and central Asia. However Russia was a useful buttress against the west. If it is no longer a serious military threat going forward all the attention can turn to China.
    There are parts of Asia to which China has a long standing and reasonably legitimate claim. It can snaffle them back. After that it could take as much of Russia as it wants but would probably prefer to have it as a crippled buffer state it can push around at will.

    That's where Russia is headed anyway.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,561
    rkrkrk said:

    Merry Christmas to all!

    Every year I get suckered in to trying sherry.
    A truly awful drink.

    It's very nice! Even Harvey's Bristol Cream is good with ice and a fresh orange garnish.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,561
    ohnotnow said:

    Giant Yorkshire puddings make an ideal pizza base with a twist.

    As usual, we are too full to contemplate Christmas pudding. Hopefully it will get eaten before Easter this time.

    If you really want to blow the health budget - giant yorkshire's make excellent wraps for a 'leftovers kebab'. No need to thank me.
    Yorkshire puddings have no place on the Christmas table.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,045

    ohnotnow said:

    Giant Yorkshire puddings make an ideal pizza base with a twist.

    As usual, we are too full to contemplate Christmas pudding. Hopefully it will get eaten before Easter this time.

    If you really want to blow the health budget - giant yorkshire's make excellent wraps for a 'leftovers kebab'. No need to thank me.
    Yorkshire puddings have no place on the Christmas table.
    "Not even Wensleydale???"
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,739
    edited 12:25PM
    .
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    USA isn't winning unless you equate Trump's interest with that of the country, which is massively diminished by being beholden to a dysfunctional foreign despot and trashing a fairly useful set of alliances.

    China is more nuanced. It's managed to avoid being too compromised by its unbreakable friend of steel's fuck-up in Ukraine, even though the original purpose of that arrangement, to provide a distraction for the West so China can do whatever it wants, hasn't entirely worked out.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,401
    Pro_Rata said:

    MattW said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    The Telegraph, with its eye as usual on its key readership, notes house prices in Kensington & Chelsea have fallen 16% in the past year from an average £1.47 million to £1.19 million and while the wailing and gnashing of teeth continues, overall London house prices have fallen 2.4% apparently (and needless to say, it's all Rachel Reeves's fault but then so is the weather, the state of English cricket, my inability to back winners etc).

    The other side of this is fewer Londoners are leaving the capital because it seems the price differential between the capital and other parts of the country isn't what it was and your East End matchbox no longer equates to a five bedroom property with 20 acres of land in Yorkshire (I mean, who wants 20 acres, who lives in a matchbox and why not Lincolnshire, Lancashire or Cheshire, why is it always Yorkshire?)

    Presumably this will enable provincial English people to move back into the capital so the streets will be alive with clotted cream, whippets and dubious accents (not much different to now then).

    Why Yorkshire?

    Well according to @MattW below

    "The main specification is that the Yorkshire should take up the maximum space to minimise sale of things that are not air."

    (Maybe he means hot air as it's the Telegraph)
    The statistic we need is the percentage of useable plate plan area occupied by a Yorkshire Pudding.

    (Height is less relevant because a heap can be constructed.)

    (This is round 28 in the Pizza Hut Salad Construction Wars from my days at University, when slice-of-cucumber parapets were banned.)
    Never forget that there is something of a Laffer curve at play when talking about Yorkshire Puddings. If you increase the size of the Pudding too much, you stop saving money, because once you squeeze the rest of the food that far, there comes a point at which it can simply emigrate to within the confines of the Yorkshire and is no longer beholden to further squeezing.
    Indeed. So real operators do spherical Yorkshire Puddings rather than Dish Profile Yorkshire Puddings.

    On Yorkshire always wanting to expand its borders, I'm watching like a hawk to make sure that @TSE does not try and colonise the Bakewell Pudding.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,411

    Am I right in thinking in that there is no wicketkeeper in the England squad other than Smith?

    If they ask me, I may be able to make it over there for the final test. I have the correct surname, and in every other respect can offer more than the current incumbent.

    Pope is essentially acting as the wicket keeping understudy, though they also have the Lions squad in Australia.
    Not sure that really works.

    Jamie Smith's selection has tested to destruction the theory that you can do without a proper wicketkeeper and pick instead a batsman who knows how to put the gloves on.
    It works insofar as a playing XI can be put onto the pitch. I would prefer to see Foakes in the team, with Rew as competition for the place.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,518

    ohnotnow said:

    Giant Yorkshire puddings make an ideal pizza base with a twist.

    As usual, we are too full to contemplate Christmas pudding. Hopefully it will get eaten before Easter this time.

    If you really want to blow the health budget - giant yorkshire's make excellent wraps for a 'leftovers kebab'. No need to thank me.
    Yorkshire puddings have no place on the Christmas table.
    Roast beef is quite a popular roast at Christmas. Definitely Yorkshire puddings have a place.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,411
    AnneJGP said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Giant Yorkshire puddings make an ideal pizza base with a twist.

    As usual, we are too full to contemplate Christmas pudding. Hopefully it will get eaten before Easter this time.

    If you really want to blow the health budget - giant yorkshire's make excellent wraps for a 'leftovers kebab'. No need to thank me.
    Yorkshire puddings have no place on the Christmas table.
    Roast beef is quite a popular roast at Christmas. Definitely Yorkshire puddings have a place.
    My wife and I were discussing what to have for Christmas Dinner, before we were both ill, and can't to the consultation that there was enough we wanted to include for two full roast dinners, and so we decided to split the list between Christmas Dinner and a New Year's Dinner. The only thing I insist on is roast potatoes.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,272
    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    I've long argued the current situation suits a lot of the players including Putin and Zelensky as it legitimises both of them in power.

    The Russians, Ukrainians and others doing the fighting and dying are the losers but no one worries about them.

    The entire defence industry, from analysts to manufacturers, has done very well out of this war. It has pushed itself up the political agenda and persuaded western Governments Russia is a military colossus equivalent to the Warsaw Pact (it can't even reach Kharkiv) and more public funds have to be thrown at defence meaning more weapons to be manufactured and sold and more defence analysts appearing on talk shows telling us what a threat Russia is and if you don't accept the argument they are a conventional military threat, the argument shifts to cyber warfare and how they could shut down the Internet.

    The defence industry is also learning about how wars are fought in the first quarter of the 21st century, the power of drones to strike far beyond the frontlines, the vulnerability of armour etc, etc. That will shape defence strategies and scenarios for decades to come.

    The arms manufacturers, whether State owned or private, have also done well with demand for their products, funding for R&D and Government approval - the last thing any of them want is peace.
    You think Zelensky wants to stay in power indefinitely? I'm not convinced. You're also ignoring that Ukraine accepted a ceasefire back in March but Russia has stalled again and again. I can't help but think you are looking for a both sidesism argument to justify isolationism.

    Complaining about the military industrial complex also seems rather odd when defence spending is so historically low. Is Russia a massive threat.? Well it ought not to be able to win a war against a united Europe (US seems to have lost interest) but that is somewhat besides the point. It is a nuclear armed country seeking to rebuild a European Empire and has the China on its side. A country which is a rising superpower and intends to undermine democracy and freedom. Which has just been given access to advance chip technology by the Trump administration. The world is in a very precarious moment. The liberal desire to play it down seems oddly parochial.
    The argument you’re responding to tends to rob the Ukrainians of any agency. There’s no evidence that that any significant section of the population wants to yield to Russia.
    Whilst I admire much of Zelensky's leadership when it comes to negotiating the end of the war I think he is largely a cipher for the Ukrainians themselves. The idea he is going against the people with his stubborn demands lacks any evidence.

    People like to attack what they see as the self-interest of the grubby defence and security establishment. Personally I think grubby people don't like the hawks telling them the truth about the world as it means them having to choose between money and political respectability.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,721
    .

    rkrkrk said:

    Merry Christmas to all!

    Every year I get suckered in to trying sherry.
    A truly awful drink.

    It's very nice! Even Harvey's Bristol Cream is good with ice and a fresh orange garnish.
    For once I agree with you.
    Though it's not my preferred tipple I rather enjoy the occasional sherry; sweet or dry.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,716
    eek said:

    Reeves' £1bn Boxing Day sales slump
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15413473/Reeves-1bn-Boxing-Day-sales-slump-Retailers.html

    Tonight's lottery numbers are on page 94.

    I'm planning to venture down Oxford Street later today. It's good to know that it's not going to be too crowded.
    I did my sale shopping on Christmas Eve, Marks started discounting products on their website at about 10am but didn't but the sale sign up to 4pm.
    The best thing about Black Friday is that you don't have to do the Christmas sales
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,721
    AnneJGP said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Giant Yorkshire puddings make an ideal pizza base with a twist.

    As usual, we are too full to contemplate Christmas pudding. Hopefully it will get eaten before Easter this time.

    If you really want to blow the health budget - giant yorkshire's make excellent wraps for a 'leftovers kebab'. No need to thank me.
    Yorkshire puddings have no place on the Christmas table.
    Roast beef is quite a popular roast at Christmas. Definitely Yorkshire puddings have a place.
    I did beef yesterday (along with a very slow roasted chicken and a vegetarian lasagne).
    Masses of Boxing Day fare left over.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,721

    stodge said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    I've long argued the current situation suits a lot of the players including Putin and Zelensky as it legitimises both of them in power.

    The Russians, Ukrainians and others doing the fighting and dying are the losers but no one worries about them.

    The entire defence industry, from analysts to manufacturers, has done very well out of this war. It has pushed itself up the political agenda and persuaded western Governments Russia is a military colossus equivalent to the Warsaw Pact (it can't even reach Kharkiv) and more public funds have to be thrown at defence meaning more weapons to be manufactured and sold and more defence analysts appearing on talk shows telling us what a threat Russia is and if you don't accept the argument they are a conventional military threat, the argument shifts to cyber warfare and how they could shut down the Internet.

    The defence industry is also learning about how wars are fought in the first quarter of the 21st century, the power of drones to strike far beyond the frontlines, the vulnerability of armour etc, etc. That will shape defence strategies and scenarios for decades to come.

    The arms manufacturers, whether State owned or private, have also done well with demand for their products, funding for R&D and Government approval - the last thing any of them want is peace.
    I think this is very unfair on Zelensky and the many people in Europe and across the world who are thinking about the Ukrainians fighting to defend their freedom.

    The threat to Europe is that if we let Russia win in Ukraine we'll have to fight the next war against Russia and Ukraine combined.
    I'd be surprised if Zelensky even runs in a postwar election.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,965

    ohnotnow said:

    Giant Yorkshire puddings make an ideal pizza base with a twist.

    As usual, we are too full to contemplate Christmas pudding. Hopefully it will get eaten before Easter this time.

    If you really want to blow the health budget - giant yorkshire's make excellent wraps for a 'leftovers kebab'. No need to thank me.
    Yorkshire puddings have no place on the Christmas table.
    My two year old niece appears to agree with you as she launched one covered in gravy at me at lunch yesterday followed by much hilarity on her part and we all had to stifle our laughs so she wouldn’t do it again for applause.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,513
    @stodge showing his true colours this morning. Don’t be fooled into thinking the Lib Dems are moderates.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,571
    stodge said:

    malcolmg said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Christmas scoff done and dusted at Stodge Towers - the roast pork with various trimmings deemed a triumph by Mrs Stodge so all's well.

    We'll have beef at New Year and have Yorkshires then - I'm not opposed to Yorkshires with roast pork in truth (they do them very well in York) but offering them for breakfast at Toby Carvery is, I feel, an idea slightly ahead of its time. Dipping your Weetabix and milk in a Yorkshire pud - consider me unconvinced.

    Still freezing cold here in East London and the traditional Christmas fireworks are getting underway or more accurately some numbskulls have had some left over from Diwali or Guy Fawkes and are letting them off.

    Now, to the serious business of Christmas - the Boxing Day horse racing bets...

    Frosty here in God's country, beautiful sunrise and blue sky. Get your tips up stodge
    Dull and bleak in Downtown East London but with 11 meetings, 75 races and 714 runners across Britain and Ireland, you'd think I could find you something...

    I studied the form on Christmas Eve and this morning find most of the ones I selected then are doing passable imitations of barges without a crew or steering on a fast flowing river in terms of their odds increasing.

    Nonetheless, your wish is my co-operation and I'll start with my patent for the day:

    U CAN'T BE SERIOUS 12.45 Kempton
    IDAHO SUN 1.05 Aintree
    BLENKINSOP 2.15 Aintree

    In addition, a couple I'm going to play each way at bigger prices - BANBRIDGE in the King George (2.30 Kempton) - currently at 14s and GERYVILLE in the 2.45 at Wetherby who is currently 16s.

    The usual disclaimers apply but good luck to anyone playing today.
    Thanks stodge ,

    Konfusion 1:35 Wetherby
    Absolutely Doyen 3:13 Wincanton
    Four Springs 12:40 Market Rasen

    Noble Park 12:45 Kempton
    Sir Gino 13:55 Kempton
    Blenkinsop 14:15 Kempton


    Gaelic Warrior 14:30 Kempton
    Mydaddypaddy 13:05 Aintree
    Fortune Timmy 13:07 Fontwell
    stodge said:

    malcolmg said:

    stodge said:

    malcolmg said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Christmas scoff done and dusted at Stodge Towers - the roast pork with various trimmings deemed a triumph by Mrs Stodge so all's well.

    We'll have beef at New Year and have Yorkshires then - I'm not opposed to Yorkshires with roast pork in truth (they do them very well in York) but offering them for breakfast at Toby Carvery is, I feel, an idea slightly ahead of its time. Dipping your Weetabix and milk in a Yorkshire pud - consider me unconvinced.

    Still freezing cold here in East London and the traditional Christmas fireworks are getting underway or more accurately some numbskulls have had some left over from Diwali or Guy Fawkes and are letting them off.

    Now, to the serious business of Christmas - the Boxing Day horse racing bets...

    Frosty here in God's country, beautiful sunrise and blue sky. Get your tips up stodge
    Dull and bleak in Downtown East London but with 11 meetings, 75 races and 714 runners across Britain and Ireland, you'd think I could find you something...

    I studied the form on Christmas Eve and this morning find most of the ones I selected then are doing passable imitations of barges without a crew or steering on a fast flowing river in terms of their odds increasing.

    Nonetheless, your wish is my co-operation and I'll start with my patent for the day:

    U CAN'T BE SERIOUS 12.45 Kempton
    IDAHO SUN 1.05 Aintree
    BLENKINSOP 2.15 Aintree

    In addition, a couple I'm going to play each way at bigger prices - BANBRIDGE in the King George (2.30 Kempton) - currently at 14s and GERYVILLE in the 2.45 at Wetherby who is currently 16s.

    The usual disclaimers apply but good luck to anyone playing today.
    Thanks stodge ,

    Konfusion 1:35 Wetherby
    Absolutely Doyen 3:13 Wincanton
    Four Springs 12:40 Market Rasen

    Noble Park 12:45 Kempton
    Sir Gino 13:55 Kempton
    Blenkinsop 14:15 Kempton


    Gaelic Warrior 14:30 Kempton
    Mydaddypaddy 13:05 Aintree
    Fortune Timmy 13:07 Fontwell

    A good number of favourites, there, my friend, and a bad day for the books if they all go in.

    Good luck.
    Yes , unfortunately short prices on a good few of them. Time will tell if good idea.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,110

    Am I right in thinking in that there is no wicketkeeper in the England squad other than Smith?

    If they ask me, I may be able to make it over there for the final test. I have the correct surname, and in every other respect can offer more than the current incumbent.

    Pope is essentially acting as the wicket keeping understudy, though they also have the Lions squad in Australia.
    Not sure that really works.

    Jamie Smith's selection has tested to destruction the theory that you can do without a proper wicketkeeper and pick instead a batsman who knows how to put the gloves on.
    It works insofar as a playing XI can be put onto the pitch. I would prefer to see Foakes in the team, with Rew as competition for the place.
    Foakes should never have been dropped. If I were him, I'd sue.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,202

    eek said:

    Reeves' £1bn Boxing Day sales slump
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15413473/Reeves-1bn-Boxing-Day-sales-slump-Retailers.html

    Tonight's lottery numbers are on page 94.

    I'm planning to venture down Oxford Street later today. It's good to know that it's not going to be too crowded.
    I did my sale shopping on Christmas Eve, Marks started discounting products on their website at about 10am but didn't but the sale sign up to 4pm.
    The best thing about Black Friday is that you don't have to do the Christmas sales
    I was in Vienna on Black Friday and Amsterdam on Cyber Monday...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,329

    Am I right in thinking in that there is no wicketkeeper in the England squad other than Smith?

    If they ask me, I may be able to make it over there for the final test. I have the correct surname, and in every other respect can offer more than the current incumbent.

    Pope is essentially acting as the wicket keeping understudy, though they also have the Lions squad in Australia.
    Not sure that really works.

    Jamie Smith's selection has tested to destruction the theory that you can do without a proper wicketkeeper and pick instead a batsman who knows how to put the gloves on.
    It works insofar as a playing XI can be put onto the pitch. I would prefer to see Foakes in the team, with Rew as competition for the place.
    Foakes should never have been dropped. If I were him, I'd sue.
    These days I tend to look at all of the England line-up and think that I've never heard of them, but then I realise it's because I don't now buy a newspaper with cricket coverage a page or two in from the back. I used to very much enjoy the small interludes of reading such coverage.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,459
    a
    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    Zelensky is leading Ukraine away from The Glorious Union of Mother Russia. So to “certain” people that is Farage like.

    The bit about him wanting to lead it towards the EU makes it even worse - a race traitor to Slavic Culture.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,183

    a

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    Zelensky is leading Ukraine away from The Glorious Union of Mother Russia. So to “certain” people that is Farage like.

    The bit about him wanting to lead it towards the EU makes it even worse - a race traitor to Slavic Culture.
    And, as you pointed out, Ukraine is potentially another liberal/social democratic state, upon the sacred soil of the USSR.

    Far right, far left, hardline Indian nationalists, all jump through intellectual hoops to support Russia.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,121
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Reeves' £1bn Boxing Day sales slump
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15413473/Reeves-1bn-Boxing-Day-sales-slump-Retailers.html

    Tonight's lottery numbers are on page 94.

    I'm planning to venture down Oxford Street later today. It's good to know that it's not going to be too crowded.
    I shall be taking the Daily Mail's advice and having a walk in the woods and not going within several miles of a shop. I blame the government. And it's the time of year to read Hardy's 'The Darkling Thrush'.

    That is a fabulous poem!
    Hardy's poetry is much better than his novels, IMO.

    Which reminds me - is cold lasagne better than cold pizza (again, IMO, yes) ?
    Never touch the novels, and haven't since my 20s. The poetry is a never ending source of delight. And he ages well, for he is the grumpy old man's grumpy old man, and his absolutely best stuff - I think it's the best there is in English poetry - very unusually for a poet, is from about 1912/13 when he was 72.

    Born in 1840 he lived into my mother's (and the late queen's) lifetime. He straddles eras.

    Cold lasagne - food of the gods. Cold pizza - ie cold cheese on toast. No.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,110
    Omnium said:

    Am I right in thinking in that there is no wicketkeeper in the England squad other than Smith?

    If they ask me, I may be able to make it over there for the final test. I have the correct surname, and in every other respect can offer more than the current incumbent.

    Pope is essentially acting as the wicket keeping understudy, though they also have the Lions squad in Australia.
    Not sure that really works.

    Jamie Smith's selection has tested to destruction the theory that you can do without a proper wicketkeeper and pick instead a batsman who knows how to put the gloves on.
    It works insofar as a playing XI can be put onto the pitch. I would prefer to see Foakes in the team, with Rew as competition for the place.
    Foakes should never have been dropped. If I were him, I'd sue.
    These days I tend to look at all of the England line-up and think that I've never heard of them, but then I realise it's because I don't now buy a newspaper with cricket coverage a page or two in from the back. I used to very much enjoy the small interludes of reading such coverage.
    The coverage wouldn't help you mch these days since there is so little red ball cricket to cover. The County Championship, which once fed the Test Team, has become meaningless.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,940
    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.




  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,222
    edited 1:45PM

    Am I right in thinking in that there is no wicketkeeper in the England squad other than Smith?

    If they ask me, I may be able to make it over there for the final test. I have the correct surname, and in every other respect can offer more than the current incumbent.

    Pope is essentially acting as the wicket keeping understudy, though they also have the Lions squad in Australia.
    Not sure that really works.

    Jamie Smith's selection has tested to destruction the theory that you can do without a proper wicketkeeper and pick instead a batsman who knows how to put the gloves on.
    It works insofar as a playing XI can be put onto the pitch. I would prefer to see Foakes in the team, with Rew as competition for the place.
    Foakes should never have been dropped. If I were him, I'd sue.
    He’s fortunate in that he will escape the post series fallout.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,183
    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.




    You’re flattering Farage, if you compare him to someone as inspirational as Zelensky.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,329
    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.




    On just the narrow point of "On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions" - so would you if you suddenly found yourself in the job. Just people you can trust.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,940
    Omnium said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.




    On just the narrow point of "On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions" - so would you if you suddenly found yourself in the job. Just people you can trust.

    Well then, maybe he shouldn't have fucking said he wouldn't.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,403
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Reeves' £1bn Boxing Day sales slump
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15413473/Reeves-1bn-Boxing-Day-sales-slump-Retailers.html

    Tonight's lottery numbers are on page 94.

    I'm planning to venture down Oxford Street later today. It's good to know that it's not going to be too crowded.
    I shall be taking the Daily Mail's advice and having a walk in the woods and not going within several miles of a shop. I blame the government. And it's the time of year to read Hardy's 'The Darkling Thrush'.

    That is a fabulous poem!
    Hardy's poetry is much better than his novels, IMO.

    Which reminds me - is cold lasagne better than cold pizza (again, IMO, yes) ?
    Never touch the novels, and haven't since my 20s. The poetry is a never ending source of delight. And he ages well, for he is the grumpy old man's grumpy old man, and his absolutely best stuff - I think it's the best there is in English poetry - very unusually for a poet, is from about 1912/13 when he was 72.

    Born in 1840 he lived into my mother's (and the late queen's) lifetime. He straddles eras.

    Cold lasagne - food of the gods. Cold pizza - ie cold cheese on toast. No.
    Cold pizza is why God invented air fryers. HTH.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,612

    Am I right in thinking in that there is no wicketkeeper in the England squad other than Smith?

    If they ask me, I may be able to make it over there for the final test. I have the correct surname, and in every other respect can offer more than the current incumbent.

    Pope is essentially acting as the wicket keeping understudy, though they also have the Lions squad in Australia.
    Not sure that really works.

    Jamie Smith's selection has tested to destruction the theory that you can do without a proper wicketkeeper and pick instead a batsman who knows how to put the gloves on.
    It works insofar as a playing XI can be put onto the pitch. I would prefer to see Foakes in the team, with Rew as competition for the place.
    Foakes should never have been dropped. If I were him, I'd sue.
    He’s fortunate in that he will escape the post series fallout.
    Indeed.

    If England do decide on a complete reset he might well end up being recalled.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,403
    edited 2:06PM
    Tory MPs are using AI-generated cabinet clones to practice [sic] for Commons debates
    In a bizarre turn of events, shadow cabinet members have been testing their attack lines on a "digital twin" of their opposite number before facing them in the Commons

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/tory-mps-using-ai-generated-36455641

    Leon never warned us about this.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,900

    Am I right in thinking in that there is no wicketkeeper in the England squad other than Smith?

    If they ask me, I may be able to make it over there for the final test. I have the correct surname, and in every other respect can offer more than the current incumbent.

    Pope is essentially acting as the wicket keeping understudy, though they also have the Lions squad in Australia.
    Not sure that really works.

    Jamie Smith's selection has tested to destruction the theory that you can do without a proper wicketkeeper and pick instead a batsman who knows how to put the gloves on.
    Selectors still like to think they can get away without a specialist ’keeper. It’s the most difficult job on the field and should always be a specialist in the same way as a bowler.

    The fact that the top of the order are rubbish with the bat, is not the fault of the ‘keeper or the bowlers.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,900
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    So unlucky for Joe Root, only 100 runs short of getting his first Test century in Australia.

    He scored a century in the second Test!
    Yeah yeah, realised that afterwards and it doesn’t make the joke as good!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,329
    Dura_Ace said:

    Omnium said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.




    On just the narrow point of "On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions" - so would you if you suddenly found yourself in the job. Just people you can trust.

    Well then, maybe he shouldn't have fucking said he wouldn't.
    And yet I'm sure you'd do the same. Dura, they say, fix the world, would you really go with the re-treads rather than get in some new blood?

    The politics of Ukraine are nuts - the only common feature in my view is that they all want to be Ukraine. And that's not quite the same as 'not Russia' - it's a little bigger.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,401

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Reeves' £1bn Boxing Day sales slump
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15413473/Reeves-1bn-Boxing-Day-sales-slump-Retailers.html

    Tonight's lottery numbers are on page 94.

    I'm planning to venture down Oxford Street later today. It's good to know that it's not going to be too crowded.
    I shall be taking the Daily Mail's advice and having a walk in the woods and not going within several miles of a shop. I blame the government. And it's the time of year to read Hardy's 'The Darkling Thrush'.

    That is a fabulous poem!
    Hardy's poetry is much better than his novels, IMO.

    Which reminds me - is cold lasagne better than cold pizza (again, IMO, yes) ?
    Never touch the novels, and haven't since my 20s. The poetry is a never ending source of delight. And he ages well, for he is the grumpy old man's grumpy old man, and his absolutely best stuff - I think it's the best there is in English poetry - very unusually for a poet, is from about 1912/13 when he was 72.

    Born in 1840 he lived into my mother's (and the late queen's) lifetime. He straddles eras.

    Cold lasagne - food of the gods. Cold pizza - ie cold cheese on toast. No.
    Cold pizza is why God invented air fryers. HTH.
    Warm pineapple is excellent.

    The "straddles eras" point is an interesting. The same is true of people like GK Chesterton (who was crusty, but notable for his opposition to eugenics), and Hilaire Belloc, both of whose political ideas are making a comeback at the margins in "socially conservative, economically leftish" circles.

    Also Churchill.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,900
    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    I've long argued the current situation suits a lot of the players including Putin and Zelensky as it legitimises both of them in power.

    The Russians, Ukrainians and others doing the fighting and dying are the losers but no one worries about them.

    The entire defence industry, from analysts to manufacturers, has done very well out of this war. It has pushed itself up the political agenda and persuaded western Governments Russia is a military colossus equivalent to the Warsaw Pact (it can't even reach Kharkiv) and more public funds have to be thrown at defence meaning more weapons to be manufactured and sold and more defence analysts appearing on talk shows telling us what a threat Russia is and if you don't accept the argument they are a conventional military threat, the argument shifts to cyber warfare and how they could shut down the Internet.

    The defence industry is also learning about how wars are fought in the first quarter of the 21st century, the power of drones to strike far beyond the frontlines, the vulnerability of armour etc, etc. That will shape defence strategies and scenarios for decades to come.

    The arms manufacturers, whether State owned or private, have also done well with demand for their products, funding for R&D and Government approval - the last thing any of them want is peace.
    I think this is very unfair on Zelensky and the many people in Europe and across the world who are thinking about the Ukrainians fighting to defend their freedom.

    The threat to Europe is that if we let Russia win in Ukraine we'll have to fight the next war against Russia and Ukraine combined.
    This is a war where the rights and wrongs are clear-cut.

    Not only does Russia have no casus belli, the conduct of its soldiers is considerably worse than that of the Ukrainians.
    Well quite.

    War is always horrible, but this particular one as as clear-cut as they come between the good side and the bad side. Ukraine didn’t ask for war, and has conducted itself as well as can be expected under the circumstances. The Russians, to put it bluntly, have most definitely not.

    Sadly I think there’s little prospect of it ending soon, despite the efforts of various negotiating teams, as Russia isn’t going to stop until their hand is forced by either an economic collapse or an inability to recruit more men for the meat grinder. I think it continues for most of next year, and the key country, as it always has been in this conflict, is China. Xi can pull support for Russia and the war ends pretty much overnight, but the Chinese think long term and likely have their eye on economically occupying huge swathes of Eastern Russia as the price for their support.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,900
    Meanwhile there’s 500 Russian troops trapped and surrounded near Kupyansk, with bad weather keeping their drones from flying.

    https://x.com/jayinkyiv/status/2004538193144864826
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,459
    MattW said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Reeves' £1bn Boxing Day sales slump
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15413473/Reeves-1bn-Boxing-Day-sales-slump-Retailers.html

    Tonight's lottery numbers are on page 94.

    I'm planning to venture down Oxford Street later today. It's good to know that it's not going to be too crowded.
    I shall be taking the Daily Mail's advice and having a walk in the woods and not going within several miles of a shop. I blame the government. And it's the time of year to read Hardy's 'The Darkling Thrush'.

    That is a fabulous poem!
    Hardy's poetry is much better than his novels, IMO.

    Which reminds me - is cold lasagne better than cold pizza (again, IMO, yes) ?
    Never touch the novels, and haven't since my 20s. The poetry is a never ending source of delight. And he ages well, for he is the grumpy old man's grumpy old man, and his absolutely best stuff - I think it's the best there is in English poetry - very unusually for a poet, is from about 1912/13 when he was 72.

    Born in 1840 he lived into my mother's (and the late queen's) lifetime. He straddles eras.

    Cold lasagne - food of the gods. Cold pizza - ie cold cheese on toast. No.
    Cold pizza is why God invented air fryers. HTH.
    Warm pineapple is excellent.

    The "straddles eras" point is an interesting. The same is true of people like GK Chesterton (who was crusty, but notable for his opposition to eugenics), and Hilaire Belloc, both of whose political ideas are making a comeback at the margins in "socially conservative, economically leftish" circles.

    Also Churchill.
    Churchill indeed - Victorian Imperialist, Edwardian liberal, neo-Georgian war leader, neo-Elizabethan….
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,467
    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.
    Make up your mind, is Zelensky dishing out jobs to his pals or 'betraying and discarding former confederates'?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,183
    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile there’s 500 Russian troops trapped and surrounded near Kupyansk, with bad weather keeping their drones from flying.

    https://x.com/jayinkyiv/status/2004538193144864826

    Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,900
    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile there’s 500 Russian troops trapped and surrounded near Kupyansk, with bad weather keeping their drones from flying.

    https://x.com/jayinkyiv/status/2004538193144864826

    Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.
    They lost an army general yesterday too, I think that’s 19 or 20 so far. Heart attack aged only 56.
    https://x.com/wartranslated/status/2004513512669003818

    The rest of the brass hats will be watching what they eat, and staying well away from tall buildings!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,857

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.
    Make up your mind, is Zelensky dishing out jobs to his pals or 'betraying and discarding former confederates'?
    The case against Zelensky seems a little patchy, tbh.
    Appointed colleagues from his TV company to government?

    Er, ok.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,459

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.
    Make up your mind, is Zelensky dishing out jobs to his pals or 'betraying and discarding former confederates'?
    When he is “betraying and discarding former confederates”, is that him throwing his principles out the window?

    As opposed to his former confederates?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,561
    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.




    You’re flattering Farage, if you compare him to someone as inspirational as Zelensky.
    The other way round I think. Zelensky is a global figurehead. He would always have been feted regardless of personal qualities - that is not me saying he doesn't have any qualities, just that his sainthood has been a given. Farage on the other hand is working against the grain of every organ of the modern state. There are no airbrushed Vogue covers of Farage and his main squeeze.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 822
    When I visited Max Gate, the house that Hardy designed ( not very well IMO) and lived in, the guide said Seamus Healey had visited a few weeks previously to pay his tribute to Hardy as a poet.

    On the topic of straddling eras, I think of Aldous Huxley, who as a child saw an elderly Queen Victoria being driven in her carriage but he died the same day as JFK.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,265
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    Have you noticed Russia’s recent “incremental, bloody gains” being reversed?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,265
    Nigelb said:

    .

    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    Bother.
    I got three bottles of malt for Xmas, so felt duty bound to drink half of one tonight.

    That was probably a mistake on top of everything else.

    Fortunately I've now watched sufficient Kdrama to have an approximate idea of how to make hangover soup for breakfast.

    Wish me well.

    Half a bottle is 15 units (or more if cask strength). See you tomorrow!
    Or not, as the case may be.
    It looks as though I had a better night than the nutjob in the White House.

    Trump: Merry Christmas to all, including the many Sleazebags who loved Jeffrey Epstein…. attended his parties, and thought he was the greatest guy on earth, only to "drop him like a dog" when things got too HOT, falsely claimed they had nothing to do with him….
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/2004340515102417210
    Projection much?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,265
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    The Telegraph, with its eye as usual on its key readership, notes house prices in Kensington & Chelsea have fallen 16% in the past year from an average £1.47 million to £1.19 million and while the wailing and gnashing of teeth continues, overall London house prices have fallen 2.4% apparently (and needless to say, it's all Rachel Reeves's fault but then so is the weather, the state of English cricket, my inability to back winners etc).

    The other side of this is fewer Londoners are leaving the capital because it seems the price differential between the capital and other parts of the country isn't what it was and your East End matchbox no longer equates to a five bedroom property with 20 acres of land in Yorkshire (I mean, who wants 20 acres, who lives in a matchbox and why not Lincolnshire, Lancashire or Cheshire, why is it always Yorkshire?)

    Presumably this will enable provincial English people to move back into the capital so the streets will be alive with clotted cream, whippets and dubious accents (not much different to now then).

    Average house prices are an utterly useless metric when n is small. More concerning is that liquidity has completely dried up
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,857
    SandraMc said:

    When I visited Max Gate, the house that Hardy designed ( not very well IMO) and lived in, the guide said Seamus Healey had visited a few weeks previously to pay his tribute to Hardy as a poet.

    On the topic of straddling eras, I think of Aldous Huxley, who as a child saw an elderly Queen Victoria being driven in her carriage but he died the same day as JFK.

    I always think of my grandmother, born in 1904 and raised in British India. She went to school in a rickshaw, and remembered Gandhi drawing crowds as a soapbox activist - presumably following his return to India from South Africa…

    …but she also sat down and watched Total Recall with me on the telly, and was quite puzzled by the “three-breasted lady” scene.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,857

    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.




    You’re flattering Farage, if you compare him to someone as inspirational as Zelensky.
    The other way round I think. Zelensky is a global figurehead. He would always have been feted regardless of personal qualities - that is not me saying he doesn't have any qualities, just that his sainthood has been a given. Farage on the other hand is working against the grain of every organ of the modern state. There are no airbrushed Vogue covers of Farage and his main squeeze.
    I doubt it’s possible to airbrush the toad-like gurn from Farage’s phiz.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,758

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.
    Make up your mind, is Zelensky dishing out jobs to his pals or 'betraying and discarding former confederates'?
    The case against Zelensky seems a little patchy, tbh.
    Appointed colleagues from his TV company to government?

    Er, ok.
    A possible precedent for Farage appointing GBNews executives to government?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,725

    IanB2 said:

    Today is the 1,400th day of Russia's Special Military Operation.

    Russia's involvement in WW2 was only 1,418 days.

    It's not true though. The Soviet Union joined the War on 17 September 1939, on the Nazi side.
    No. The Soviet Union remained officially neutral in the war between Germany and the western allies.

    The German declaration of war on the Soviet Union, officially Note of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Germany to the Soviet government from 21 June 1941 is a diplomatic note presented by German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop to Soviet ambassador Vladimir Dekanozov in Berlin on 22 June 1941 at 4 a.m. local time, informing him about the German invasion of the Soviet Union and the preceding casus belli.

    The Russian didn't officially declare war on Germany. The existence of the German declaration of war on the Soviet Union was long concealed by Soviet authorities, because it mentions the secret protocol to the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact which was revealed only in 1989.

    The reaction of Soviet leader Joseph Stalin was described particularly in the memoirs of Georgy Zhukov. According to Zhukov, when Molotov reported that Germany had declared war, Stalin "sank down into his chair and lost himself in thought". After a protracted pause Stalin finally allowed the issue of Directive No. 2 on combat readiness at 7:15 a.m. on 22 June. According to admiral Nikolai Kuznetsov, however, Soviet troops were brought into combat readiness already on 21 June, at around 17:00.
    I realise they didn't declare war, but they invaded Poland (and later the Baltic states) and therefore supported the Nazi dismemberment of Poland. That sounds like "taking part" to me. Poland was an Allied nation. They haven't declared war on Ukraine either.

    Finland is usually regarded as a participant in WW2 as well.
    Finland lost nearly three times the proportion of its population than the UK as casualties of the war, and during the Lapland War pretty much every settlement in the north of the country was burned to the ground, by the Germans, and the residents driven away. Following on from their heroic success in holding the Soviets at bay, despite overwhelming odds.
    Finland spent most of WW2 allied to the Nazis, before switching sides in 1944. The full story is quite complex, see

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland_in_World_War_II
    To be fair, Finland had been invaded by Russia, taken terrible losses from them, and been forced to cede a significant portion of territory.

    They also paid a large amount of money to the UK and France for weapons... most of which ended up not being delivered, because they were needed for our own war effort.

    Can you blame them for thinking my enemy's enemy is my friend?

    Certainly, it's hard to think their behavior is worse than the Soviets, who -lest we forget- started the Second World War as Germany's ally, and invaded Poland and Finland before moving onto the Baltic States.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,062

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.
    Make up your mind, is Zelensky dishing out jobs to his pals or 'betraying and discarding former confederates'?
    The case against Zelensky seems a little patchy, tbh.
    Appointed colleagues from his TV company to government?

    Er, ok.
    A possible precedent for Farage appointing GBNews executives to government?
    Lots of UK examples of nepotism for Farage to follow.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,857
    The cycle of house prices is that London benefits first (as it’s essentially the only productive part of the British economy) and, in times of stagnation, the rest of country narrows the gap.

    We are in a time of stagnation.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,265

    ‘I was a Spad on £85k – with no HR and brutal hours, attempts to unionise should come as no shock’
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/527b554692bf7c11

    Gift link to bypass paywall. An inside look at the life of a former SpAd for the blue team.

    The comments are.. not favourable
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,459
    edited 3:19PM

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    The Telegraph, with its eye as usual on its key readership, notes house prices in Kensington & Chelsea have fallen 16% in the past year from an average £1.47 million to £1.19 million and while the wailing and gnashing of teeth continues, overall London house prices have fallen 2.4% apparently (and needless to say, it's all Rachel Reeves's fault but then so is the weather, the state of English cricket, my inability to back winners etc).

    The other side of this is fewer Londoners are leaving the capital because it seems the price differential between the capital and other parts of the country isn't what it was and your East End matchbox no longer equates to a five bedroom property with 20 acres of land in Yorkshire (I mean, who wants 20 acres, who lives in a matchbox and why not Lincolnshire, Lancashire or Cheshire, why is it always Yorkshire?)

    Presumably this will enable provincial English people to move back into the capital so the streets will be alive with clotted cream, whippets and dubious accents (not much different to now then).

    Average house prices are an utterly useless metric when n is small. More concerning is that liquidity has completely dried up
    The high end house price thing is related to rich immigrants re-emigrating. When you come from China, for example, mood music from the government gets listened to.

    I know plenty of people who live in "matchboxes" - if your response to a housing crisis is to decrease minimum room sizes and demand higher densities from developers, then you will get smaller and smaller new builds.

    In rural areas, there's a common theme of

    - People move to the country, buy lots of land
    - Discover the fun of maintaining x acres, so
    1) Discover the joys of a rider mower
    2) Discover "rewilding" - aka don't bother
    3) Rent the land back to someone needing grazing for sheep.

    Why Yorkshire? - it's the Chateaux Chasseliers, obviously.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,265
    ydoethur said:

    ‘I was a Spad on £85k – with no HR and brutal hours, attempts to unionise should come as no shock’
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/527b554692bf7c11

    Gift link to bypass paywall. An inside look at the life of a former SpAd for the blue team.

    Hmmmm.

    £85k and is complaining he's underpaid because he has 'a certain lifestyle' to keep up.

    [snip]

    It's not the salary structure, it's recruiting in the wrong pool.
    I think you are misreading it.

    I think he’s saying that the good people don’t apply because they don’t want to accept £85,000 (because their lifestyle and mortgages)… so you end up with useless dregs like him…

    It’s almost self aware
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,725
    tlg86 said:

    @stodge showing his true colours this morning. Don’t be fooled into thinking the Lib Dems are moderates.

    I don't think @stodge is a LD any more.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,062

    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.




    You’re flattering Farage, if you compare him to someone as inspirational as Zelensky.
    The other way round I think. Zelensky is a global figurehead. He would always have been feted regardless of personal qualities - that is not me saying he doesn't have any qualities, just that his sainthood has been a given. Farage on the other hand is working against the grain of every organ of the modern state. There are no airbrushed Vogue covers of Farage and his main squeeze.
    I doubt it’s possible to airbrush the toad-like gurn from Farage’s phiz.
    I'm just trying to process how Farage rose to his current position with no media support, truly a miracle for our times!!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,459

    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.




    You’re flattering Farage, if you compare him to someone as inspirational as Zelensky.
    The other way round I think. Zelensky is a global figurehead. He would always have been feted regardless of personal qualities - that is not me saying he doesn't have any qualities, just that his sainthood has been a given. Farage on the other hand is working against the grain of every organ of the modern state. There are no airbrushed Vogue covers of Farage and his main squeeze.
    Zelensky could have easily got on that helicopter with a big bag of cash, when the Russians invaded. Indeed, many expected him to do so.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,725

    a

    ydoethur said:

    Tory MPs are using AI-generated cabinet clones to practice for Commons debates
    In a bizarre turn of events, shadow cabinet members have been testing their attack lines on a "digital twin" of their opposite number before facing them in the Commons

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/tory-mps-using-ai-generated-36455641

    Leon never warned us about this.

    Wouldn't that be bit confusing when they get to the chamber and find the real thing much more wooden and unconvincing?
    The ability of LLMs to bullshit fluently makes them ideal politicians.
    As does their small context window :-)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,459

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    Bother.
    I got three bottles of malt for Xmas, so felt duty bound to drink half of one tonight.

    That was probably a mistake on top of everything else.

    Fortunately I've now watched sufficient Kdrama to have an approximate idea of how to make hangover soup for breakfast.

    Wish me well.

    Half a bottle is 15 units (or more if cask strength). See you tomorrow!
    Or not, as the case may be.
    It looks as though I had a better night than the nutjob in the White House.

    Trump: Merry Christmas to all, including the many Sleazebags who loved Jeffrey Epstein…. attended his parties, and thought he was the greatest guy on earth, only to "drop him like a dog" when things got too HOT, falsely claimed they had nothing to do with him….
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/2004340515102417210
    Projection much?
    Only about this much projection -


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,459
    rcs1000 said:

    a

    ydoethur said:

    Tory MPs are using AI-generated cabinet clones to practice for Commons debates
    In a bizarre turn of events, shadow cabinet members have been testing their attack lines on a "digital twin" of their opposite number before facing them in the Commons

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/tory-mps-using-ai-generated-36455641

    Leon never warned us about this.

    Wouldn't that be bit confusing when they get to the chamber and find the real thing much more wooden and unconvincing?
    The ability of LLMs to bullshit fluently makes them ideal politicians.
    As does their small context window :-)
    I keep saying - we have achieved the ability to instantiate as many Donald Trumps as we want.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,900

    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.




    You’re flattering Farage, if you compare him to someone as inspirational as Zelensky.
    The other way round I think. Zelensky is a global figurehead. He would always have been feted regardless of personal qualities - that is not me saying he doesn't have any qualities, just that his sainthood has been a given. Farage on the other hand is working against the grain of every organ of the modern state. There are no airbrushed Vogue covers of Farage and his main squeeze.
    Zelensky could have easily got on that helicopter with a big bag of cash, when the Russians invaded. Indeed, many expected him to do so.
    Biden even offered him the helicopter to evacuate, but instead he said that he fights for his country and to send weapons. “The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride.”

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-united-nations-kyiv-6ccba0905f1871992b93712d3585f548
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,459
    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Today is the 1,400th day of Russia's Special Military Operation.

    Russia's involvement in WW2 was only 1,418 days.

    It's not true though. The Soviet Union joined the War on 17 September 1939, on the Nazi side.
    No. The Soviet Union remained officially neutral in the war between Germany and the western allies.

    The German declaration of war on the Soviet Union, officially Note of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Germany to the Soviet government from 21 June 1941 is a diplomatic note presented by German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop to Soviet ambassador Vladimir Dekanozov in Berlin on 22 June 1941 at 4 a.m. local time, informing him about the German invasion of the Soviet Union and the preceding casus belli.

    The Russian didn't officially declare war on Germany. The existence of the German declaration of war on the Soviet Union was long concealed by Soviet authorities, because it mentions the secret protocol to the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact which was revealed only in 1989.

    The reaction of Soviet leader Joseph Stalin was described particularly in the memoirs of Georgy Zhukov. According to Zhukov, when Molotov reported that Germany had declared war, Stalin "sank down into his chair and lost himself in thought". After a protracted pause Stalin finally allowed the issue of Directive No. 2 on combat readiness at 7:15 a.m. on 22 June. According to admiral Nikolai Kuznetsov, however, Soviet troops were brought into combat readiness already on 21 June, at around 17:00.
    I realise they didn't declare war, but they invaded Poland (and later the Baltic states) and therefore supported the Nazi dismemberment of Poland. That sounds like "taking part" to me. Poland was an Allied nation. They haven't declared war on Ukraine either.

    Finland is usually regarded as a participant in WW2 as well.
    Finland lost nearly three times the proportion of its population than the UK as casualties of the war, and during the Lapland War pretty much every settlement in the north of the country was burned to the ground, by the Germans, and the residents driven away. Following on from their heroic success in holding the Soviets at bay, despite overwhelming odds.
    Finland spent most of WW2 allied to the Nazis, before switching sides in 1944. The full story is quite complex, see

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland_in_World_War_II
    To be fair, Finland had been invaded by Russia, taken terrible losses from them, and been forced to cede a significant portion of territory.

    They also paid a large amount of money to the UK and France for weapons... most of which ended up not being delivered, because they were needed for our own war effort.

    Can you blame them for thinking my enemy's enemy is my friend?

    Certainly, it's hard to think their behavior is worse than the Soviets, who -lest we forget- started the Second World War as Germany's ally, and invaded Poland and Finland before moving onto the Baltic States.
    Ah yes, Finland.

    Where Stalin decided that the existence of Finland (which wanted to be neutral) was so much of a threat that he tried to take over the whole country. He was going to annex a big chunk, and put in a puppet government in what was left. See Poland.

    Stalin fucked up, to the point that the Germans thought the Soviet Union was rotten and about to fall over. Whoops.

    And managed to ensure that Finland was (and is) a wary and heavily neighbour to Russia, to this day.

    Finland was a lukewarm ally of Hitler - they refused to attack Russia in the ways he wanted. Which is why, after the war, Stalin didn't try and insist on another takeover (as with the rest of Eastern Europe).
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,857
    edited 3:36PM
    Speaking of Finland, has anyone read “The Winter Warriors” by Olivier Norek, a historical thriller about the Russian invasion of 1939.

    I’ve just seen it recommended in the FT.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,459
    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.




    You’re flattering Farage, if you compare him to someone as inspirational as Zelensky.
    The other way round I think. Zelensky is a global figurehead. He would always have been feted regardless of personal qualities - that is not me saying he doesn't have any qualities, just that his sainthood has been a given. Farage on the other hand is working against the grain of every organ of the modern state. There are no airbrushed Vogue covers of Farage and his main squeeze.
    Zelensky could have easily got on that helicopter with a big bag of cash, when the Russians invaded. Indeed, many expected him to do so.
    Biden even offered him the helicopter to evacuate, but instead he said that he fights for his country and to send weapons. “The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride.”

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-united-nations-kyiv-6ccba0905f1871992b93712d3585f548
    Which was what I was referencing. The US and much of Europe expected Zelensky to scoot into exile, and follow the path of the Dalai Lama. That is, turning up to the fringes of international meetings to plead the cause for his country. And be ignored, really.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,278

    ydoethur said:

    ‘I was a Spad on £85k – with no HR and brutal hours, attempts to unionise should come as no shock’
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/527b554692bf7c11

    Gift link to bypass paywall. An inside look at the life of a former SpAd for the blue team.

    Hmmmm.

    £85k and is complaining he's underpaid because he has 'a certain lifestyle' to keep up.

    [snip]

    It's not the salary structure, it's recruiting in the wrong pool.
    I think you are misreading it.

    I think he’s saying that the good people don’t apply because they don’t want to accept £85,000 (because their lifestyle and mortgages)… so you end up with useless dregs like him…

    It’s almost self aware
    £85k is comfortably in the top 10% of earners even in London. Of course he would be expected to work hard for it and plenty of ex Spads have ended up Cabinet Ministers and MPs
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,280

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Today is the 1,400th day of Russia's Special Military Operation.

    Russia's involvement in WW2 was only 1,418 days.

    It's not true though. The Soviet Union joined the War on 17 September 1939, on the Nazi side.
    No. The Soviet Union remained officially neutral in the war between Germany and the western allies.

    The German declaration of war on the Soviet Union, officially Note of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Germany to the Soviet government from 21 June 1941 is a diplomatic note presented by German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop to Soviet ambassador Vladimir Dekanozov in Berlin on 22 June 1941 at 4 a.m. local time, informing him about the German invasion of the Soviet Union and the preceding casus belli.

    The Russian didn't officially declare war on Germany. The existence of the German declaration of war on the Soviet Union was long concealed by Soviet authorities, because it mentions the secret protocol to the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact which was revealed only in 1989.

    The reaction of Soviet leader Joseph Stalin was described particularly in the memoirs of Georgy Zhukov. According to Zhukov, when Molotov reported that Germany had declared war, Stalin "sank down into his chair and lost himself in thought". After a protracted pause Stalin finally allowed the issue of Directive No. 2 on combat readiness at 7:15 a.m. on 22 June. According to admiral Nikolai Kuznetsov, however, Soviet troops were brought into combat readiness already on 21 June, at around 17:00.
    I realise they didn't declare war, but they invaded Poland (and later the Baltic states) and therefore supported the Nazi dismemberment of Poland. That sounds like "taking part" to me. Poland was an Allied nation. They haven't declared war on Ukraine either.

    Finland is usually regarded as a participant in WW2 as well.
    Finland lost nearly three times the proportion of its population than the UK as casualties of the war, and during the Lapland War pretty much every settlement in the north of the country was burned to the ground, by the Germans, and the residents driven away. Following on from their heroic success in holding the Soviets at bay, despite overwhelming odds.
    Finland spent most of WW2 allied to the Nazis, before switching sides in 1944. The full story is quite complex, see

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland_in_World_War_II
    To be fair, Finland had been invaded by Russia, taken terrible losses from them, and been forced to cede a significant portion of territory.

    They also paid a large amount of money to the UK and France for weapons... most of which ended up not being delivered, because they were needed for our own war effort.

    Can you blame them for thinking my enemy's enemy is my friend?

    Certainly, it's hard to think their behavior is worse than the Soviets, who -lest we forget- started the Second World War as Germany's ally, and invaded Poland and Finland before moving onto the Baltic States.
    Ah yes, Finland.

    Where Stalin decided that the existence of Finland (which wanted to be neutral) was so much of a threat that he tried to take over the whole country. He was going to annex a big chunk, and put in a puppet government in what was left. See Poland.

    Stalin fucked up, to the point that the Germans thought the Soviet Union was rotten and about to fall over. Whoops.

    And managed to ensure that Finland was (and is) a wary and heavily neighbour to Russia, to this day.

    Finland was a lukewarm ally of Hitler - they refused to attack Russia in the ways he wanted. Which is why, after the war, Stalin didn't try and insist on another takeover (as with the rest of Eastern Europe).
    Afternoon all. Happy sober(?) Boxing Day.
    Finland was after all only a semi-independent, and AIUI, rather unhappy, Grand Duchy of the Tsarist regime prior to the Russian Revolution
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,758

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    You are seriously saying that Zelensky and Putin are moral equivalents? Seriously equating Zelensky and Farage? That is, um, an "interesting" view.

    Not just a wrong view, a highly offensive view.
    I never mentioned Putin.

    Zelensky and Farage do have some similarities...

    Peddler of simplistic solutions to complex issues for morons inclined to nationalism by deploying personal rizz.
    Blatant liar, yet somehow shit doesn't stick. One of Zelensky's campaign slogans was Nyet Druzhy, Nyet Kumostva (No Friends, No Nepotism). On DAY ONE of his presidency, he appointed 15 people from his TV company to government positions.
    Trusts almost nobody, micromanages everything.
    Betrays and discards former confederates at the drop of an ushanka.
    Loves flegs.




    You’re flattering Farage, if you compare him to someone as inspirational as Zelensky.
    The other way round I think. Zelensky is a global figurehead. He would always have been feted regardless of personal qualities - that is not me saying he doesn't have any qualities, just that his sainthood has been a given. Farage on the other hand is working against the grain of every organ of the modern state. There are no airbrushed Vogue covers of Farage and his main squeeze.
    Zelensky could have easily got on that helicopter with a big bag of cash, when the Russians invaded. Indeed, many expected him to do so.
    Biden even offered him the helicopter to evacuate, but instead he said that he fights for his country and to send weapons. “The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride.”

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-united-nations-kyiv-6ccba0905f1871992b93712d3585f548
    Which was what I was referencing. The US and much of Europe expected Zelensky to scoot into exile, and follow the path of the Dalai Lama. That is, turning up to the fringes of international meetings to plead the cause for his country. And be ignored, really.
    It's why having Boris Johnson there at the outbreak of the war was such a crucial factor because he was the only Western voice who was strongly opposed to the fatalistic mood that a full occupation was inevitable once Putin decided to invade.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,725

    Speaking of Finland, has anyone read “The Winter Warriors” by Olivier Norek, a historical thriller about the Russian invasion of 1939.

    I’ve just seen it recommended in the FT.

    Not released for another month :disappointed:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,721

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    Bother.
    I got three bottles of malt for Xmas, so felt duty bound to drink half of one tonight.

    That was probably a mistake on top of everything else.

    Fortunately I've now watched sufficient Kdrama to have an approximate idea of how to make hangover soup for breakfast.

    Wish me well.

    Half a bottle is 15 units (or more if cask strength). See you tomorrow!
    Or not, as the case may be.
    It looks as though I had a better night than the nutjob in the White House.

    Trump: Merry Christmas to all, including the many Sleazebags who loved Jeffrey Epstein…. attended his parties, and thought he was the greatest guy on earth, only to "drop him like a dog" when things got too HOT, falsely claimed they had nothing to do with him….
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/2004340515102417210
    Projection much?
    I don't think I was..
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 47,232
    SandraMc said:

    When I visited Max Gate, the house that Hardy designed ( not very well IMO) and lived in, the guide said Seamus Healey had visited a few weeks previously to pay his tribute to Hardy as a poet.

    On the topic of straddling eras, I think of Aldous Huxley, who as a child saw an elderly Queen Victoria being driven in her carriage but he died the same day as JFK.

    Good for you. We didn't manage to get to Max Gate on our last trip to the area. Still something I want to do. Oddly enough it was built on a huge stone circle henge site. Though I'm not clear as to how much TH ever knew about it.

    https://historicengland.org.uk/whats-new/news/neolithic-enclosure-under-thomas-hardy-home-protected/

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,411
    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    I've long argued the current situation suits a lot of the players including Putin and Zelensky as it legitimises both of them in power.

    The Russians, Ukrainians and others doing the fighting and dying are the losers but no one worries about them.

    The entire defence industry, from analysts to manufacturers, has done very well out of this war. It has pushed itself up the political agenda and persuaded western Governments Russia is a military colossus equivalent to the Warsaw Pact (it can't even reach Kharkiv) and more public funds have to be thrown at defence meaning more weapons to be manufactured and sold and more defence analysts appearing on talk shows telling us what a threat Russia is and if you don't accept the argument they are a conventional military threat, the argument shifts to cyber warfare and how they could shut down the Internet.

    The defence industry is also learning about how wars are fought in the first quarter of the 21st century, the power of drones to strike far beyond the frontlines, the vulnerability of armour etc, etc. That will shape defence strategies and scenarios for decades to come.

    The arms manufacturers, whether State owned or private, have also done well with demand for their products, funding for R&D and Government approval - the last thing any of them want is peace.
    I think this is very unfair on Zelensky and the many people in Europe and across the world who are thinking about the Ukrainians fighting to defend their freedom.

    The threat to Europe is that if we let Russia win in Ukraine we'll have to fight the next war against Russia and Ukraine combined.
    This is a war where the rights and wrongs are clear-cut.

    Not only does Russia have no casus belli, the conduct of its soldiers is considerably worse than that of the Ukrainians.
    Well quite.

    War is always horrible, but this particular one as as clear-cut as they come between the good side and the bad side. Ukraine didn’t ask for war, and has conducted itself as well as can be expected under the circumstances. The Russians, to put it bluntly, have most definitely not.

    Sadly I think there’s little prospect of it ending soon, despite the efforts of various negotiating teams, as Russia isn’t going to stop until their hand is forced by either an economic collapse or an inability to recruit more men for the meat grinder. I think it continues for most of next year, and the key country, as it always has been in this conflict, is China. Xi can pull support for Russia and the war ends pretty much overnight, but the Chinese think long term and likely have their eye on economically occupying huge swathes of Eastern Russia as the price for their support.
    There are some awful economic numbers coming out of Russia at the moment, and curiously Russia seems to be cutting government spending in preference to increasing borrowing.

    I think there's just a chance that Putin is preparing to call a truce, but that he's pushing things as far as he can to get as much as possible out of the agreement.

    If you were wanting to deepen the divisions within the West I think a temporary truce could be advantageous. Trump will be keen to drop sanctions and to unfreeze Russian assets to skim off his percent. Meanwhile there will be divisions in Europe between those countries breathing a sigh of relief and wanting to forget about it all, and those still feeling some urgency to prepare for when Russia has another go.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,060
    At 4:45 on BBC2 we have the definitive Christmas film:


    The Great Escape
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,190
    edited 4:15PM
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukranian Christmas present to Russia. Orenburg gas plant is on fire.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2004172940745785687

    Has Ukraine won yet as you were predicting as early as 2023?
    Yep they’re winning.

    50,000 dead Russians to not take Kupyansk, and 100,000 dead Russians to not take Pokrovsk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
    The only nations "winning" the SMO are the USA and China.
    Ukraine is a bankrupt ruin in political crisis.
    Russia and the EU are diminished.
    The UK are irrelevant, just rowing in on whatever the EU position is without any voice in shaping it.

    Barring Ukraine running out of other people's money or the Farage of Kiev being toppled, the SMO will probably continue on its current trajectory for a while yet. Incremental, bloody gains by Russia and occasional PIRA style spectaculars by Ukraine. It'll all be over by next Christmas.
    Your reputation certainly hasn’t won during the “SMO”

    Ukraine’s resilience has made made you look like an S M know nothing

    Peashooters.. lol
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