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The worm that turned? – politicalbetting.com

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  • sladeslade Posts: 2,289
    Nigelb said:

    56% rise in patients in hospital with flu on 2024

    1,717 in hospital beds last week

    With all the flu vaccinations available today, especially for the elderly, why the increase ?

    Because vaccinations only effective against the particular strains selected, which is an educated guess. And i'm willing to suspect 'the flu' is not confirmed cases of influenza but people with respiratory problems, viral and bacterial.
    There is indeed something of a mismatch between the vaccine (whose details are necessarily fixed earlier in the year), and the prevalent strain;
    https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2025/11/11/how-well-will-i-be-protected-from-flu-this-year-with-the-current-uk-influenza-vaccines/

    Also Covid is still around, and still pretty nasty compared to the average respiratory virus.
    I have had an upper RTI for a week, It was so bad I tested myself for Covid (negative). I hope it improves over the weekend.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,693
    edited 6:33PM
    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,164
    Sounds like another Trump-style outing from Farage attacking the media.

    Real risk that being Trump-like in style, policies and comms is going to be absolute pure poison by 2029.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,410
    Taz said:

    I’m not sure why Middlesex are allowed to play as the county doesn’t exist.

    Crisis club Middlesex begin plan to move away from Lord’s

    Exclusive: County take step towards private ownership amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive


    Middlesex have taken the first step towards private ownership to fund a new home away from Lord’s.

    The crisis-plagued county have told members they are actively exploring demutualisation after being plunged into fresh turmoil amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive.

    Andrew Cornish was absent from a meeting with members on Tuesday at which the club began a formal consultation over becoming just the fourth first-class county to go private.

    Chairman Richard Sykes told Telegraph Sport that Cornish was “on a leave of absence”, adding: “The Cricket Regulator is involved and I can’t say more than that.”

    The investigation into Cornish, who has denied any wrongdoing, is unrelated to demutualisation. But the timing could hardly be worse for the 161-year-old club as they look to join Durham, Northamptonshire and Hampshire in becoming privately owned.

    As tenants of Marylebone Cricket Club at Lord’s, Middlesex are unique among the 18 counties as they do not own their home ground. This means they are unable to make money through non-cricket activities such as conferencing and events.

    They play at a series of outgrounds such as Merchant Taylors’ School, Richmond and Radlett, but have long sought a “home away from home” to provide stability and generate income. Sykes believes the only way to raise the funds for this is via demutualisation.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/12/02/middlesex-county-cricket-club-plan-move-away-lords-private/

    "Yorkshire" doesn't exist either:

    West Yorkshire
    North Yorkshire
    South Yorkshire
    East Riding
    There is no such place as Port Vale. Time to sack that club off.
    Robbie Williams won’t be happy.
    Port vale feature in some of my favourite moments watching Swindon. A 5-0 win to win Leaague 2 under Di Canio probably the pick.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,493
    Russia is hard to pin on Farage. The Dulwich College stuff and his reaction are more powerful. There’s a double whammy too because it reminds (or informs) people how elite his upbringing was.

    I’m confident he’s probably reasonably positively inclined towards Russia simply because all his MAGA fellow travellers are, but there’s no smoking gun and he’s not stupid.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,558
    TimS said:

    Russia is hard to pin on Farage. The Dulwich College stuff and his reaction are more powerful. There’s a double whammy too because it reminds (or informs) people how elite his upbringing was.

    I’m confident he’s probably reasonably positively inclined towards Russia simply because all his MAGA fellow travellers are, but there’s no smoking gun and he’s not stupid.

    Farage can also more reasonably accuse people banging on about Russia of hypocrisy given that in the pre-Trump era, European elites were queuing up to do business with Putin.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,736

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    He does have a fair point here. Many BBC shows now have ‘trigger warnings’ even Little Britain and, yes, racist TV shows and shows that would fall foul of today’s modern sensibilities were in abundance on all three channels back then.

    You also have the MSM trying to give the guy from Oxford Uni who gloated over Charlie Kirk’s death friendly interviews to plead his case as he shouldn’t pay for saying silly things when young. I don’t think that’s unfair. What Farage said over 40 years at school, who cares, it what he is now that matters.
    Should the Oxford Union guy go on to lead a major political party with a solid chance of becoming PM, I'm sure he'll also be quizzed about the things he said when younger.

    As for what Farage is now... well, people look at him, he's praising Trump, thinks the Ukraine war is the fault of NATO, and blames everything else on immigrants.
    No, the Oxford guy said something stupid. He should be allowed to get on with his life.

    As for your final sentence that really is untrue for the final two and his praise of Trump has been sparse and specific.
    Even The Spectator says Farage blames the Ukraine war on NATO (and EU) expansion: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-nigel-farage-gets-wrong-about-the-ukraine-war/
    That’s an Op Ed.

    He’s been critical of Putin, rightly so.

    The Wests timid reaction to the initial annexation of parts of Ukraine and Georgia was poor. How much of that was Russian influence ?
    Don't forget Transnistria, legally part of Moldova!
    Indeed.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,812

    Taz said:

    I’m not sure why Middlesex are allowed to play as the county doesn’t exist.

    Crisis club Middlesex begin plan to move away from Lord’s

    Exclusive: County take step towards private ownership amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive


    Middlesex have taken the first step towards private ownership to fund a new home away from Lord’s.

    The crisis-plagued county have told members they are actively exploring demutualisation after being plunged into fresh turmoil amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive.

    Andrew Cornish was absent from a meeting with members on Tuesday at which the club began a formal consultation over becoming just the fourth first-class county to go private.

    Chairman Richard Sykes told Telegraph Sport that Cornish was “on a leave of absence”, adding: “The Cricket Regulator is involved and I can’t say more than that.”

    The investigation into Cornish, who has denied any wrongdoing, is unrelated to demutualisation. But the timing could hardly be worse for the 161-year-old club as they look to join Durham, Northamptonshire and Hampshire in becoming privately owned.

    As tenants of Marylebone Cricket Club at Lord’s, Middlesex are unique among the 18 counties as they do not own their home ground. This means they are unable to make money through non-cricket activities such as conferencing and events.

    They play at a series of outgrounds such as Merchant Taylors’ School, Richmond and Radlett, but have long sought a “home away from home” to provide stability and generate income. Sykes believes the only way to raise the funds for this is via demutualisation.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/12/02/middlesex-county-cricket-club-plan-move-away-lords-private/

    "Yorkshire" doesn't exist either:

    West Yorkshire
    North Yorkshire
    South Yorkshire
    East Riding
    There is no such place as Port Vale. Time to sack that club off.
    Robbie Williams won’t be happy.
    Port vale feature in some of my favourite moments watching Swindon. A 5-0 win to win Leaague 2 under Di Canio probably the pick.
    West Ham connection!
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,736

    Taz said:

    I’m not sure why Middlesex are allowed to play as the county doesn’t exist.

    Crisis club Middlesex begin plan to move away from Lord’s

    Exclusive: County take step towards private ownership amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive


    Middlesex have taken the first step towards private ownership to fund a new home away from Lord’s.

    The crisis-plagued county have told members they are actively exploring demutualisation after being plunged into fresh turmoil amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive.

    Andrew Cornish was absent from a meeting with members on Tuesday at which the club began a formal consultation over becoming just the fourth first-class county to go private.

    Chairman Richard Sykes told Telegraph Sport that Cornish was “on a leave of absence”, adding: “The Cricket Regulator is involved and I can’t say more than that.”

    The investigation into Cornish, who has denied any wrongdoing, is unrelated to demutualisation. But the timing could hardly be worse for the 161-year-old club as they look to join Durham, Northamptonshire and Hampshire in becoming privately owned.

    As tenants of Marylebone Cricket Club at Lord’s, Middlesex are unique among the 18 counties as they do not own their home ground. This means they are unable to make money through non-cricket activities such as conferencing and events.

    They play at a series of outgrounds such as Merchant Taylors’ School, Richmond and Radlett, but have long sought a “home away from home” to provide stability and generate income. Sykes believes the only way to raise the funds for this is via demutualisation.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/12/02/middlesex-county-cricket-club-plan-move-away-lords-private/

    "Yorkshire" doesn't exist either:

    West Yorkshire
    North Yorkshire
    South Yorkshire
    East Riding
    There is no such place as Port Vale. Time to sack that club off.
    Robbie Williams won’t be happy.
    Port vale feature in some of my favourite moments watching Swindon. A 5-0 win to win Leaague 2 under Di Canio probably the pick.
    I’ll never forget your lot turning us over 6-4 at home after we went 4-1 up
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,275
    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,558
    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Labour have equalled Liz Truss's record low:

    https://x.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1996572051478282392


    Find Out Now
    @FindoutnowUK
    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 31% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 20% (+2)
    🟢 Greens: 18% (+1)
    🔴 Labour: 14% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 11% (-1)

    Changes from 26th November
    [Find Out Now, 3rd December, N=2,591]

    Lettuce see how that pans out.
    The lettuce strikes back:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1996640749304402407

    They tried to silence her. They failed.

    The Liz Truss Show — December 5th.

    It’s time to fight for the West.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,812
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,736
    There’s always a tweet !

    ‘ If Fawlty Towers is now being removed by the BBC then humour is dead. The puritans are winning because the establishment is weak and has no self confidence’

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1271185807571922945?s=61
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,275

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,736
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,736
    edited 6:50PM

    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Labour have equalled Liz Truss's record low:

    https://x.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1996572051478282392


    Find Out Now
    @FindoutnowUK
    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 31% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 20% (+2)
    🟢 Greens: 18% (+1)
    🔴 Labour: 14% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 11% (-1)

    Changes from 26th November
    [Find Out Now, 3rd December, N=2,591]

    Lettuce see how that pans out.
    The lettuce strikes back:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1996640749304402407

    They tried to silence her. They failed.

    The Liz Truss Show — December 5th.

    It’s time to fight for the West.
    For someone the mythical ‘they’ tried to silence she’s been very vocal ever since she was defenestrated
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,410
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    I’m not sure why Middlesex are allowed to play as the county doesn’t exist.

    Crisis club Middlesex begin plan to move away from Lord’s

    Exclusive: County take step towards private ownership amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive


    Middlesex have taken the first step towards private ownership to fund a new home away from Lord’s.

    The crisis-plagued county have told members they are actively exploring demutualisation after being plunged into fresh turmoil amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive.

    Andrew Cornish was absent from a meeting with members on Tuesday at which the club began a formal consultation over becoming just the fourth first-class county to go private.

    Chairman Richard Sykes told Telegraph Sport that Cornish was “on a leave of absence”, adding: “The Cricket Regulator is involved and I can’t say more than that.”

    The investigation into Cornish, who has denied any wrongdoing, is unrelated to demutualisation. But the timing could hardly be worse for the 161-year-old club as they look to join Durham, Northamptonshire and Hampshire in becoming privately owned.

    As tenants of Marylebone Cricket Club at Lord’s, Middlesex are unique among the 18 counties as they do not own their home ground. This means they are unable to make money through non-cricket activities such as conferencing and events.

    They play at a series of outgrounds such as Merchant Taylors’ School, Richmond and Radlett, but have long sought a “home away from home” to provide stability and generate income. Sykes believes the only way to raise the funds for this is via demutualisation.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/12/02/middlesex-county-cricket-club-plan-move-away-lords-private/

    "Yorkshire" doesn't exist either:

    West Yorkshire
    North Yorkshire
    South Yorkshire
    East Riding
    There is no such place as Port Vale. Time to sack that club off.
    Robbie Williams won’t be happy.
    Port vale feature in some of my favourite moments watching Swindon. A 5-0 win to win Leaague 2 under Di Canio probably the pick.
    I’ll never forget your lot turning us over 6-4 at home after we went 4-1 up
    Classic game. Was working in a pub, came out in time for the classified scores. You can imaginary at Birmingham 4… I was pretty down. For about a second!

    If I need a lift I watch that game on YouTube. A classic.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,213

    TimS said:

    Russia is hard to pin on Farage. The Dulwich College stuff and his reaction are more powerful. There’s a double whammy too because it reminds (or informs) people how elite his upbringing was.

    I’m confident he’s probably reasonably positively inclined towards Russia simply because all his MAGA fellow travellers are, but there’s no smoking gun and he’s not stupid.

    Farage can also more reasonably accuse people banging on about Russia of hypocrisy given that in the pre-Trump era, European elites were queuing up to do business with Putin.
    How was it hypocrisy to deal with Putin before he invaded Ukraine?

    Also, who qualifies as a 'European elite' out of interest?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,410
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    Yep. Why should we cut the 1970s BBC some slack over things like that by not 1970s Farage? Double standards every time.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,194

    TimS said:

    Russia is hard to pin on Farage. The Dulwich College stuff and his reaction are more powerful. There’s a double whammy too because it reminds (or informs) people how elite his upbringing was.

    I’m confident he’s probably reasonably positively inclined towards Russia simply because all his MAGA fellow travellers are, but there’s no smoking gun and he’s not stupid.

    Farage can also more reasonably accuse people banging on about Russia of hypocrisy given that in the pre-Trump era, European elites were queuing up to do business with Putin.
    How was it hypocrisy to deal with Putin before he invaded Ukraine?

    Also, who qualifies as a 'European elite' out of interest?
    Anyone Liz Truss doesn’t like
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,736

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    I’m not sure why Middlesex are allowed to play as the county doesn’t exist.

    Crisis club Middlesex begin plan to move away from Lord’s

    Exclusive: County take step towards private ownership amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive


    Middlesex have taken the first step towards private ownership to fund a new home away from Lord’s.

    The crisis-plagued county have told members they are actively exploring demutualisation after being plunged into fresh turmoil amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive.

    Andrew Cornish was absent from a meeting with members on Tuesday at which the club began a formal consultation over becoming just the fourth first-class county to go private.

    Chairman Richard Sykes told Telegraph Sport that Cornish was “on a leave of absence”, adding: “The Cricket Regulator is involved and I can’t say more than that.”

    The investigation into Cornish, who has denied any wrongdoing, is unrelated to demutualisation. But the timing could hardly be worse for the 161-year-old club as they look to join Durham, Northamptonshire and Hampshire in becoming privately owned.

    As tenants of Marylebone Cricket Club at Lord’s, Middlesex are unique among the 18 counties as they do not own their home ground. This means they are unable to make money through non-cricket activities such as conferencing and events.

    They play at a series of outgrounds such as Merchant Taylors’ School, Richmond and Radlett, but have long sought a “home away from home” to provide stability and generate income. Sykes believes the only way to raise the funds for this is via demutualisation.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/12/02/middlesex-county-cricket-club-plan-move-away-lords-private/

    "Yorkshire" doesn't exist either:

    West Yorkshire
    North Yorkshire
    South Yorkshire
    East Riding
    There is no such place as Port Vale. Time to sack that club off.
    Robbie Williams won’t be happy.
    Port vale feature in some of my favourite moments watching Swindon. A 5-0 win to win Leaague 2 under Di Canio probably the pick.
    I’ll never forget your lot turning us over 6-4 at home after we went 4-1 up
    Classic game. Was working in a pub, came out in time for the classified scores. You can imaginary at Birmingham 4… I was pretty down. For about a second!

    If I need a lift I watch that game on YouTube. A classic.
    I left in disgust at 4-4.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,558

    TimS said:

    Russia is hard to pin on Farage. The Dulwich College stuff and his reaction are more powerful. There’s a double whammy too because it reminds (or informs) people how elite his upbringing was.

    I’m confident he’s probably reasonably positively inclined towards Russia simply because all his MAGA fellow travellers are, but there’s no smoking gun and he’s not stupid.

    Farage can also more reasonably accuse people banging on about Russia of hypocrisy given that in the pre-Trump era, European elites were queuing up to do business with Putin.
    How was it hypocrisy to deal with Putin before he invaded Ukraine?

    Also, who qualifies as a 'European elite' out of interest?
    They annexed Crimea in 2014 and Germany was still clinging to Nordstream 2 when Putin went for the whole of Ukraine.

    https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/02/01/why-germany-wont-kill-nord-stream-2
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,812

    TimS said:

    Russia is hard to pin on Farage. The Dulwich College stuff and his reaction are more powerful. There’s a double whammy too because it reminds (or informs) people how elite his upbringing was.

    I’m confident he’s probably reasonably positively inclined towards Russia simply because all his MAGA fellow travellers are, but there’s no smoking gun and he’s not stupid.

    Farage can also more reasonably accuse people banging on about Russia of hypocrisy given that in the pre-Trump era, European elites were queuing up to do business with Putin.
    How was it hypocrisy to deal with Putin before he invaded Ukraine?

    Also, who qualifies as a 'European elite' out of interest?
    Putin invaded Georgia in 2008.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,067

    TimS said:

    Russia is hard to pin on Farage. The Dulwich College stuff and his reaction are more powerful. There’s a double whammy too because it reminds (or informs) people how elite his upbringing was.

    I’m confident he’s probably reasonably positively inclined towards Russia simply because all his MAGA fellow travellers are, but there’s no smoking gun and he’s not stupid.

    Farage can also more reasonably accuse people banging on about Russia of hypocrisy given that in the pre-Trump era, European elites were queuing up to do business with Putin.
    How was it hypocrisy to deal with Putin before he invaded Ukraine?

    Also, who qualifies as a 'European elite' out of interest?
    They annexed Crimea in 2014 and Germany was still clinging to Nordstream 2 when Putin went for the whole of Ukraine.

    https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/02/01/why-germany-wont-kill-nord-stream-2
    You'll have to excuse the Germans. They have always had a thing for fascists.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,137

    TimS said:

    Russia is hard to pin on Farage. The Dulwich College stuff and his reaction are more powerful. There’s a double whammy too because it reminds (or informs) people how elite his upbringing was.

    I’m confident he’s probably reasonably positively inclined towards Russia simply because all his MAGA fellow travellers are, but there’s no smoking gun and he’s not stupid.

    Farage can also more reasonably accuse people banging on about Russia of hypocrisy given that in the pre-Trump era, European elites were queuing up to do business with Putin.
    How was it hypocrisy to deal with Putin before he invaded Ukraine?

    Also, who qualifies as a 'European elite' out of interest?
    They annexed Crimea in 2014 and Germany was still clinging to Nordstream 2 when Putin went for the whole of Ukraine.

    https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/02/01/why-germany-wont-kill-nord-stream-2
    The EU’s response to the Crimea was to take it’s dependency on Russian gas from 35% of demand to 47% of demand.

    https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/share-of-european-union-gas-demand-met-by-russian-supply-2001-2024
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,059
    On Scotland and nukes - Scotland doesn't always have a surplus on renewables (mostly wind).

    It varies between over production and under production, as the wind varies. Just the other day, the Scottish grid was majority gas and nuclear.

    There is nowhere near enough storage to deal with that, as yet.

    See https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,705
    Has the Putin stooge had anything to say yet about the Salisbury enquiry ?

    Or is he too busy making up imaginary letters from schoolmates saying he was Mother Theresa .
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,215
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    He does have a fair point here. Many BBC shows now have ‘trigger warnings’ even Little Britain and, yes, racist TV shows and shows that would fall foul of today’s modern sensibilities were in abundance on all three channels back then.

    You also have the MSM trying to give the guy from Oxford Uni who gloated over Charlie Kirk’s death friendly interviews to plead his case as he shouldn’t pay for saying silly things when young. I don’t think that’s unfair. What Farage said over 40 years at school, who cares, it what he is now that matters.
    Should the Oxford Union guy go on to lead a major political party with a solid chance of becoming PM, I'm sure he'll also be quizzed about the things he said when younger.

    As for what Farage is now... well, people look at him, he's praising Trump, thinks the Ukraine war is the fault of NATO, and blames everything else on immigrants.
    No, the Oxford guy said something stupid. He should be allowed to get on with his life.

    As for your final sentence that really is untrue for the final two and his praise of Trump has been sparse and specific.
    Even The Spectator says Farage blames the Ukraine war on NATO (and EU) expansion: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-nigel-farage-gets-wrong-about-the-ukraine-war/
    That’s an Op Ed.

    He’s been critical of Putin, rightly so.

    The Wests timid reaction to the initial annexation of parts of Ukraine and Georgia was poor. How much of that was Russian influence ?
    Probably quite a bit, but those politicians are nearly all history, while Farage aspires to be our future PM.

    We need a proper investigation and exposure of Russia's covert war on us. Take this from earlier today:

    "Four unidentified military-grade drones breached a no-fly zone in Dublin just minutes after Zelensky’s plane landed. They targeted the exact flight path and then circled an Irish Navy vessel deployed for the visit. Ireland is probing it as a potential hybrid attack."

    https://bsky.app/profile/noelreports.com/post/3m76ezzngpc2r

    We know that Russia was bribing Nathan Gill, but Farage was (and to an extent still is) spouting the same Russian talking points. Farage's Putin links are a major security risk to our country.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,693
    edited 7:17PM
    So many people are trying to make a living out of producing YouTube videos that you wonder how long it is before there aren't enough viewers to go around. Having said that, there are lots of very interesting channels such as Mentour Pilot (if you're interested in aviation).
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,423

    56% rise in patients in hospital with flu on 2024

    1,717 in hospital beds last week

    With all the flu vaccinations available today, especially for the elderly, why the increase ?

    Dr John Campbell on YouTube quoted a report (on last year's flu season) with figures that showed people who'd had the vaccine were more likely to get flu than those who hadn't been vaccinated. Last year, I emphasise.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,402

    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Labour have equalled Liz Truss's record low:

    https://x.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1996572051478282392


    Find Out Now
    @FindoutnowUK
    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 31% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 20% (+2)
    🟢 Greens: 18% (+1)
    🔴 Labour: 14% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 11% (-1)

    Changes from 26th November
    [Find Out Now, 3rd December, N=2,591]

    Lettuce see how that pans out.
    The lettuce strikes back:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1996640749304402407

    They tried to silence her. They failed.

    The Liz Truss Show — December 5th.

    It’s time to fight for the West.
    Is it just on Twitter? She doesn't mention a channel.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,556
    It's fine, we're neutral, no-one will attack us.

    FOUR UNIDENTIFIED MILITARY-STYLE drones breached a no-fly zone and flew towards the flight path of Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s plane at sea near Dublin Airport late on Monday night, The Journal has learned.

    The plane landed, slightly ahead of schedule, just moments before the incident happened at about 11pm. The drones reached the location where Zelenskyy’s plane was expected to be at the exact moment it had been due to pass.

    The drones then orbited above an Irish Navy vessel that had secretly been deployed in the Irish Sea for the Zelenskyy visit.

    Sources have said that the drones took off from the north-east of Dublin, possibly near Howth, and flew for up to two hours.


    https://www.thejournal.ie/drones-dublin-ireland-hybrid-warfare-russia-6893104-Dec2025/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,175
    @JenniferJJacobs

    Scoop: Trump has hired a new architect for the White House ballroom. The current one, James McCrery, will remain on the team, despite some clashes with the president, sources tell
    @CBSNews
    .
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,089

    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Labour have equalled Liz Truss's record low:

    https://x.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1996572051478282392


    Find Out Now
    @FindoutnowUK
    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 31% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 20% (+2)
    🟢 Greens: 18% (+1)
    🔴 Labour: 14% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 11% (-1)

    Changes from 26th November
    [Find Out Now, 3rd December, N=2,591]

    Lettuce see how that pans out.
    The lettuce strikes back:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1996640749304402407

    They tried to silence her. They failed.

    The Liz Truss Show — December 5th.

    It’s time to fight for the West.
    Is it just on Twitter? She doesn't mention a channel.
    You’re going to watch?!??!!!
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,137
    Andy_JS said:

    So many people are trying to make a living out of producing YouTube videos that you wonder how long it is before there aren't enough viewers to go around. Having said that, there are lots of very interesting channels such as Mentour Pilot (if you're interested in aviation).

    It’s still a better system than one based on who you knew at Oxbridge.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,402
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    He does have a fair point here. Many BBC shows now have ‘trigger warnings’ even Little Britain and, yes, racist TV shows and shows that would fall foul of today’s modern sensibilities were in abundance on all three channels back then.

    You also have the MSM trying to give the guy from Oxford Uni who gloated over Charlie Kirk’s death friendly interviews to plead his case as he shouldn’t pay for saying silly things when young. I don’t think that’s unfair. What Farage said over 40 years at school, who cares, it what he is now that matters.
    Should the Oxford Union guy go on to lead a major political party with a solid chance of becoming PM, I'm sure he'll also be quizzed about the things he said when younger.

    As for what Farage is now... well, people look at him, he's praising Trump, thinks the Ukraine war is the fault of NATO, and blames everything else on immigrants.
    No, the Oxford guy said something stupid. He should be allowed to get on with his life.

    As for your final sentence that really is untrue for the final two and his praise of Trump has been sparse and specific.
    Even The Spectator says Farage blames the Ukraine war on NATO (and EU) expansion: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-nigel-farage-gets-wrong-about-the-ukraine-war/
    That’s an Op Ed.

    He’s been critical of Putin, rightly so.

    The Wests timid reaction to the initial annexation of parts of Ukraine and Georgia was poor. How much of that was Russian influence ?
    Probably quite a bit, but those politicians are nearly all history, while Farage aspires to be our future PM.

    We need a proper investigation and exposure of Russia's covert war on us. Take this from earlier today:

    "Four unidentified military-grade drones breached a no-fly zone in Dublin just minutes after Zelensky’s plane landed. They targeted the exact flight path and then circled an Irish Navy vessel deployed for the visit. Ireland is probing it as a potential hybrid attack."

    https://bsky.app/profile/noelreports.com/post/3m76ezzngpc2r

    We know that Russia was bribing Nathan Gill, but Farage was (and to an extent still is) spouting the same Russian talking points. Farage's Putin links are a major security risk to our country.
    The major security risk to our country resides in Number 10 Downing Street. Nigel Farage's 'Russian talking points' aren't even an amuse bouche to what Starmer has done on Chagos, China, and selling out the public to corporate interests like Microsoft and Blackrock.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,975
    I don't know whether to cry with joy or vomit with fear: they've made a movie of "The Magic Faraway Tree"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzeedTlv_4E
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,402
    DougSeal said:

    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Labour have equalled Liz Truss's record low:

    https://x.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1996572051478282392


    Find Out Now
    @FindoutnowUK
    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 31% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 20% (+2)
    🟢 Greens: 18% (+1)
    🔴 Labour: 14% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 11% (-1)

    Changes from 26th November
    [Find Out Now, 3rd December, N=2,591]

    Lettuce see how that pans out.
    The lettuce strikes back:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1996640749304402407

    They tried to silence her. They failed.

    The Liz Truss Show — December 5th.

    It’s time to fight for the West.
    Is it just on Twitter? She doesn't mention a channel.
    You’re going to watch?!??!!!
    Not if it's on Twitter - I don't post regularly. If it's on YouTube I suspect the algorithm will recommend it from time to time.

    If it doesn't, I'm sure Truss's obsessive fans here will post enough clips to give a flavour.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,558
    edited 7:33PM
    Scott_xP said:

    @JenniferJJacobs

    Scoop: Trump has hired a new architect for the White House ballroom. The current one, James McCrery, will remain on the team, despite some clashes with the president, sources tell
    @CBSNews
    .

    Trump's favourite architect is peerless. (6)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,275

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    I’m around 20 years older and went to a school with a significant number of Jewish boys. There was a bit of antisemitism but it was generally felt to be ‘bad form’. That was in despite the Morning Assembly being being segregated; Catholic and Jewish boys came in for the announcements.
    Certainly different and less intolerant of racism (casual or otherwise) times. I hope in 50 years these times are looked back upon similarly. Something will have gone wrong otherwise imo.

    Re Farage and his "gas em all" antics as a teenager the harsh truth is it doesn't really matter (other than to me) what I think about it. What matters is what people who are open to voting Reform think about it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,275

    DougSeal said:

    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Labour have equalled Liz Truss's record low:

    https://x.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1996572051478282392


    Find Out Now
    @FindoutnowUK
    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 31% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 20% (+2)
    🟢 Greens: 18% (+1)
    🔴 Labour: 14% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 11% (-1)

    Changes from 26th November
    [Find Out Now, 3rd December, N=2,591]

    Lettuce see how that pans out.
    The lettuce strikes back:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1996640749304402407

    They tried to silence her. They failed.

    The Liz Truss Show — December 5th.

    It’s time to fight for the West.
    Is it just on Twitter? She doesn't mention a channel.
    You’re going to watch?!??!!!
    Not if it's on Twitter - I don't post regularly. If it's on YouTube I suspect the algorithm will recommend it from time to time.

    If it doesn't, I'm sure Truss's obsessive fans here will post enough clips to give a flavour.
    Just the best bits.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,558
    Looks like it's official between Justin Trudeau and Katy Perry.

    https://x.com/justintrudeau/status/1996634839219593366
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,215
    DougSeal said:

    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Labour have equalled Liz Truss's record low:

    https://x.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1996572051478282392


    Find Out Now
    @FindoutnowUK
    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 31% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 20% (+2)
    🟢 Greens: 18% (+1)
    🔴 Labour: 14% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 11% (-1)

    Changes from 26th November
    [Find Out Now, 3rd December, N=2,591]

    Lettuce see how that pans out.
    The lettuce strikes back:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1996640749304402407

    They tried to silence her. They failed.

    The Liz Truss Show — December 5th.

    It’s time to fight for the West.
    Is it just on Twitter? She doesn't mention a channel.
    You’re going to watch?!??!!!
    As the piniped prophet of the return of Ms Truss, surely you will be gripped by every word?
  • FF43 said:

    It's fine, we're neutral, no-one will attack us.

    FOUR UNIDENTIFIED MILITARY-STYLE drones breached a no-fly zone and flew towards the flight path of Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s plane at sea near Dublin Airport late on Monday night, The Journal has learned.

    The plane landed, slightly ahead of schedule, just moments before the incident happened at about 11pm. The drones reached the location where Zelenskyy’s plane was expected to be at the exact moment it had been due to pass.

    The drones then orbited above an Irish Navy vessel that had secretly been deployed in the Irish Sea for the Zelenskyy visit.

    Sources have said that the drones took off from the north-east of Dublin, possibly near Howth, and flew for up to two hours.


    https://www.thejournal.ie/drones-dublin-ireland-hybrid-warfare-russia-6893104-Dec2025/

    It would nice if the Irish spent some money on weapons that can shoot down drones. Or, in fact, any weapons at all.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,812
    Andy_JS said:

    So many people are trying to make a living out of producing YouTube videos that you wonder how long it is before there aren't enough viewers to go around. Having said that, there are lots of very interesting channels such as Mentour Pilot (if you're interested in aviation).

    Another one is Big Jet TV.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,106
    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:
    It's a curious one.

    Two blokes have been arrested on suspicion of explosives offences, 200 households have been arrested, and there will be a controlled explosion, but it is not terrorism related.

    So why do these blokes have something explosive that needs to be blown up? And what is it?
    200 households arrested? Sounds like someone was starting an army.
    Hah ! Caught out - evacuated.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,874

    On Scotland and nukes - Scotland doesn't always have a surplus on renewables (mostly wind).

    It varies between over production and under production, as the wind varies. Just the other day, the Scottish grid was majority gas and nuclear.

    There is nowhere near enough storage to deal with that, as yet.

    See https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/

    Quite so. Needs to be sorted out.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,558
    MattW said:

    kjh said:
    It's a curious one.

    Two blokes have been arrested on suspicion of explosives offences, 200 households have been arrested, and there will be a controlled explosion, but it is not terrorism related.

    So why do these blokes have something explosive that needs to be blown up? And what is it?

    I thought UXB, but there are no arrests fo UXBs.
    Both Poles? Maybe they were fermenting something.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,542

    I’m not sure why Middlesex are allowed to play as the county doesn’t exist.

    Crisis club Middlesex begin plan to move away from Lord’s

    Exclusive: County take step towards private ownership amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive


    Middlesex have taken the first step towards private ownership to fund a new home away from Lord’s.

    The crisis-plagued county have told members they are actively exploring demutualisation after being plunged into fresh turmoil amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive.

    Andrew Cornish was absent from a meeting with members on Tuesday at which the club began a formal consultation over becoming just the fourth first-class county to go private.

    Chairman Richard Sykes told Telegraph Sport that Cornish was “on a leave of absence”, adding: “The Cricket Regulator is involved and I can’t say more than that.”

    The investigation into Cornish, who has denied any wrongdoing, is unrelated to demutualisation. But the timing could hardly be worse for the 161-year-old club as they look to join Durham, Northamptonshire and Hampshire in becoming privately owned.

    As tenants of Marylebone Cricket Club at Lord’s, Middlesex are unique among the 18 counties as they do not own their home ground. This means they are unable to make money through non-cricket activities such as conferencing and events.

    They play at a series of outgrounds such as Merchant Taylors’ School, Richmond and Radlett, but have long sought a “home away from home” to provide stability and generate income. Sykes believes the only way to raise the funds for this is via demutualisation.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/12/02/middlesex-county-cricket-club-plan-move-away-lords-private/

    "Yorkshire" doesn't exist either:

    West Yorkshire
    North Yorkshire
    South Yorkshire
    East Riding
    There's no South Yorkshire, it is all West Riding. Including Saddleworth.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,484
    I am crapping myself in excitement at The Liz Truss Show.

    T
    R
    U
    S
    S

    The lettuce. The legend. Now broadcasting on whatever platform will have her.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,908

    On Scotland and nukes - Scotland doesn't always have a surplus on renewables (mostly wind).

    It varies between over production and under production, as the wind varies. Just the other day, the Scottish grid was majority gas and nuclear.

    There is nowhere near enough storage to deal with that, as yet.

    See https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/

    If the proposed new CCGT with CCS at Peterhead goes ahead, it will be able to flex as renewables output goes up and down.
  • trukattrukat Posts: 96

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    Indeed. I'd go further. I'm older, and this notion that racist, or sexist, 'banter' was socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s just isn't true. Of course such banter existed, but both had been challenged since the mid-1960s by anti-racist and feminist groups and, though there remained much to do, such banter wasn't the norm any more, and its proponents were on the back foot, certainly by the mid-to-late 1970s.

    I rather suspect one of Farage's problems is that he perceived the banter of the posh-heads at Dulwich College (and subsequently in the City) as the norm.
    Well it was completely acceptable in my local comprehensive. No Hitler love, but great hilarity around the Ethiopia famine for example. Shocking looking back, but Pretending this stuff was not going on is revisionist bullshit.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,315
    Carnyx said:

    On Scotland and nukes - Scotland doesn't always have a surplus on renewables (mostly wind).

    It varies between over production and under production, as the wind varies. Just the other day, the Scottish grid was majority gas and nuclear.

    There is nowhere near enough storage to deal with that, as yet.

    See https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/

    Quite so. Needs to be sorted out.
    Possibly. But the siting of the plant will be controversial. There's already a rebellion brewing across the Highlands about renewables infrastructure. One to watch.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,860

    I am crapping myself in excitement at The Liz Truss Show.

    T
    R
    U
    S
    S

    The lettuce. The legend. Now broadcasting on whatever platform will have her.

    Better not be OnlyFans.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,998
    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    I’m not sure why Middlesex are allowed to play as the county doesn’t exist.

    Crisis club Middlesex begin plan to move away from Lord’s

    Exclusive: County take step towards private ownership amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive


    Middlesex have taken the first step towards private ownership to fund a new home away from Lord’s.

    The crisis-plagued county have told members they are actively exploring demutualisation after being plunged into fresh turmoil amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive.

    Andrew Cornish was absent from a meeting with members on Tuesday at which the club began a formal consultation over becoming just the fourth first-class county to go private.

    Chairman Richard Sykes told Telegraph Sport that Cornish was “on a leave of absence”, adding: “The Cricket Regulator is involved and I can’t say more than that.”

    The investigation into Cornish, who has denied any wrongdoing, is unrelated to demutualisation. But the timing could hardly be worse for the 161-year-old club as they look to join Durham, Northamptonshire and Hampshire in becoming privately owned.

    As tenants of Marylebone Cricket Club at Lord’s, Middlesex are unique among the 18 counties as they do not own their home ground. This means they are unable to make money through non-cricket activities such as conferencing and events.

    They play at a series of outgrounds such as Merchant Taylors’ School, Richmond and Radlett, but have long sought a “home away from home” to provide stability and generate income. Sykes believes the only way to raise the funds for this is via demutualisation.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/12/02/middlesex-county-cricket-club-plan-move-away-lords-private/

    "Yorkshire" doesn't exist either:

    West Yorkshire
    North Yorkshire
    South Yorkshire
    East Riding
    It's a bit of geography. East Anglia doesn't have a council, but it exists.
    Yorkshire has never had a county council, but it exists.
    Pre-1974, no-one sane claimed that, say, Rochdale wasn't in Lancashire or Nottingham wasn't in Nottinghamshire just because those county councils did not have jurisdiction over those settlements.
    There's a lot more attached to a county than simply a council.
    And I don't particularly care which bit of geography my council covers or attaches its name to (well I do, but for different reasons). What I want is an immutable set of sub-national units so I can answer to a question like 'where is Barnoldswick?', or be able to ask 'how many towns in Cheshire have had a club in the football league' without havibg to explain what I mean by 'Cheshire' (or, indeed, the football league, though that is a different issue).
    I'm not even particularly invested in Cheshire. If we were to declare 2025 to be year 0 and henceforth here is now Lancashire, fine. As long as we don't dick around with it any further. Not for the next thousand years, anyway.
    Middlesex is an oddity though in that it was waved away and nobody much missed it.
    I was born and brought up in Middlesex until its abrupt abolition when I was 10. Some of us miss it still. But there's always Betjeman, including this moving gem

    Gaily into Ruislip Gardens
    Runs the red electric train..............


    https://allpoetry.com/Middlesex
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,874

    Carnyx said:

    On Scotland and nukes - Scotland doesn't always have a surplus on renewables (mostly wind).

    It varies between over production and under production, as the wind varies. Just the other day, the Scottish grid was majority gas and nuclear.

    There is nowhere near enough storage to deal with that, as yet.

    See https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/

    Quite so. Needs to be sorted out.
    Possibly. But the siting of the plant will be controversial. There's already a rebellion brewing across the Highlands about renewables infrastructure. One to watch.
    Not just the Highlands - the Borders too, and the coastal fringes.

    Mix of possibilities of course.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,484
    Andy_JS said:

    So many people are trying to make a living out of producing YouTube videos that you wonder how long it is before there aren't enough viewers to go around. Having said that, there are lots of very interesting channels such as Mentour Pilot (if you're interested in aviation).

    Speaking as PB’s leading YouTuber all I can say is that the audience growth continues unabated as we devolve as a species to the point where we need to have a constant feed of shite broadcast into our brains.

    In my own case my channel continues to grow, I had my best ever month for revenue in November and I seem to bizarrely keep coming up with new things to talk about.

    I’ve invested in the future though. I went 4k pretty much from the start in 2022 and I'm now shooting HDR. The idea is to give my content longevity - a lot of early YouTube content is really poor picture quality. You can get away with poor production quality if it pops off the screen. Into people’s retinas and this into their brains…
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,998
    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    Concerning this bit of whataboutery, let me repeat, with apologies, what I said above:

    I was brought up in a Jewish part of London in the 1960s and 1970s. 'Gas them all' and similar thoughts were never ever uttered either to Jewish people or, in my experience, in private 'banter'. It would have marked you out as abnormal. The great majority of us were brought up on stories from our father about serving in the war against fascism.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,215
    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    Indeed. I'd go further. I'm older, and this notion that racist, or sexist, 'banter' was socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s just isn't true. Of course such banter existed, but both had been challenged since the mid-1960s by anti-racist and feminist groups and, though there remained much to do, such banter wasn't the norm any more, and its proponents were on the back foot, certainly by the mid-to-late 1970s.

    I rather suspect one of Farage's problems is that he perceived the banter of the posh-heads at Dulwich College (and subsequently in the City) as the norm.
    Well it was completely acceptable in my local comprehensive. No Hitler love, but great hilarity around the Ethiopia famine for example. Shocking looking back, but Pretending this stuff was not going on is revisionist bullshit.
    I get it. Corbyn says/likes something anti-semitic and unwilling to apologise = unfit to be leader or MP,

    Farage says "Gas 'em all" and refuses to apologise = glorious patriot standing up against multiculturism.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,275

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    Indeed. I'd go further. I'm older, and this notion that racist, or sexist, 'banter' was socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s just isn't true. Of course such banter existed, but both had been challenged since the mid-1960s by anti-racist and feminist groups and, though there remained much to do, such banter wasn't the norm any more, and its proponents were on the back foot, certainly by the mid-to-late 1970s.

    I rather suspect one of Farage's problems is that he perceived the banter of the posh-heads at Dulwich College (and subsequently in the City) as the norm.
    Dulwich College to metal trading is a very particular background. The latter (along with Insurance) was a holdout of 'old' City behaviour and practices. I don't know about Metals but Insurance still is. There are some real dinosaurs there. And it's not to their detriment. The money sloshing around for the top brokers and underwriters is quite incredible. My message to PB - you're all paying too much premium!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,908

    Andy_JS said:

    So many people are trying to make a living out of producing YouTube videos that you wonder how long it is before there aren't enough viewers to go around. Having said that, there are lots of very interesting channels such as Mentour Pilot (if you're interested in aviation).

    Speaking as PB’s leading YouTuber all I can say is that the audience growth continues unabated as we devolve as a species to the point where we need to have a constant feed of shite broadcast into our brains.

    In my own case my channel continues to grow, I had my best ever month for revenue in November and I seem to bizarrely keep coming up with new things to talk about.

    I’ve invested in the future though. I went 4k pretty much from the start in 2022 and I'm now shooting HDR. The idea is to give my content longevity - a lot of early YouTube content is really poor picture quality. You can get away with poor production quality if it pops off the screen. Into people’s retinas and this into their brains…
    When there's an ad for soap powder on TV featuring "RochdalePioneers' Laundry Day" then we'll know you've arrived.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,275
    Foxy said:

    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    Indeed. I'd go further. I'm older, and this notion that racist, or sexist, 'banter' was socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s just isn't true. Of course such banter existed, but both had been challenged since the mid-1960s by anti-racist and feminist groups and, though there remained much to do, such banter wasn't the norm any more, and its proponents were on the back foot, certainly by the mid-to-late 1970s.

    I rather suspect one of Farage's problems is that he perceived the banter of the posh-heads at Dulwich College (and subsequently in the City) as the norm.
    Well it was completely acceptable in my local comprehensive. No Hitler love, but great hilarity around the Ethiopia famine for example. Shocking looking back, but Pretending this stuff was not going on is revisionist bullshit.
    I get it. Corbyn says/likes something anti-semitic and unwilling to apologise = unfit to be leader or MP,

    Farage says "Gas 'em all" and refuses to apologise = glorious patriot standing up against multiculturism.
    Gassssss em all.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,980
    And it was all going so well for Kemi...

    T
    R
    U
    S
    S
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,059
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    On Scotland and nukes - Scotland doesn't always have a surplus on renewables (mostly wind).

    It varies between over production and under production, as the wind varies. Just the other day, the Scottish grid was majority gas and nuclear.

    There is nowhere near enough storage to deal with that, as yet.

    See https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/

    Quite so. Needs to be sorted out.
    Possibly. But the siting of the plant will be controversial. There's already a rebellion brewing across the Highlands about renewables infrastructure. One to watch.
    Not just the Highlands - the Borders too, and the coastal fringes.

    Mix of possibilities of course.
    As an example of the comedy - the farmer I know who is putting in a battery to back his solar array is still getting grief from the local Greens. They are very upset they can't seem to stop him, under planning law - but they are trying everything. Given that it's a couple of ISO containers, and not visible unless you are on his property (trees), I am try to work out the objection.

    He does say that they seem upset by his idea to sell 'leecy directly to the tenants of the small business centre he created out of the old stable yard.
  • trukattrukat Posts: 96
    Foxy said:

    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    Indeed. I'd go further. I'm older, and this notion that racist, or sexist, 'banter' was socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s just isn't true. Of course such banter existed, but both had been challenged since the mid-1960s by anti-racist and feminist groups and, though there remained much to do, such banter wasn't the norm any more, and its proponents were on the back foot, certainly by the mid-to-late 1970s.

    I rather suspect one of Farage's problems is that he perceived the banter of the posh-heads at Dulwich College (and subsequently in the City) as the norm.
    Well it was completely acceptable in my local comprehensive. No Hitler love, but great hilarity around the Ethiopia famine for example. Shocking looking back, but Pretending this stuff was not going on is revisionist bullshit.
    I get it. Corbyn says/likes something anti-semitic and unwilling to apologise = unfit to be leader or MP,

    Farage says "Gas 'em all" and refuses to apologise = glorious patriot standing up against multiculturism.
    No mate. If Farage was on about gassing Jews he was an outlier even for the times I grew up in. But my experience is that overt racism did not recede till the late 80s/early 90s. I mean am i misremembering or were not Everton fans chanting proudly about no blacks in the team in the 80s?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,558
    GIN1138 said:

    And it was all going so well for Kemi...

    T
    R
    U
    S
    S

    Truss has moved beyond party politics as a national treasure so it won't have any consequences for Kemi.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,980

    GIN1138 said:

    And it was all going so well for Kemi...

    T
    R
    U
    S
    S

    Truss has moved beyond party politics as a national treasure so it won't have any consequences for Kemi.
    Really?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,133
    FF43 said:

    It's fine, we're neutral, no-one will attack us.

    FOUR UNIDENTIFIED MILITARY-STYLE drones breached a no-fly zone and flew towards the flight path of Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s plane at sea near Dublin Airport late on Monday night, The Journal has learned.

    The plane landed, slightly ahead of schedule, just moments before the incident happened at about 11pm. The drones reached the location where Zelenskyy’s plane was expected to be at the exact moment it had been due to pass.

    The drones then orbited above an Irish Navy vessel that had secretly been deployed in the Irish Sea for the Zelenskyy visit.

    Sources have said that the drones took off from the north-east of Dublin, possibly near Howth, and flew for up to two hours.


    https://www.thejournal.ie/drones-dublin-ireland-hybrid-warfare-russia-6893104-Dec2025/

    Better get used to more Russian assassination attempts along those lines, on European or UK territory.

    And sort out some serious anti-drone systems for our airports.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,275
    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    Indeed. I'd go further. I'm older, and this notion that racist, or sexist, 'banter' was socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s just isn't true. Of course such banter existed, but both had been challenged since the mid-1960s by anti-racist and feminist groups and, though there remained much to do, such banter wasn't the norm any more, and its proponents were on the back foot, certainly by the mid-to-late 1970s.

    I rather suspect one of Farage's problems is that he perceived the banter of the posh-heads at Dulwich College (and subsequently in the City) as the norm.
    Well it was completely acceptable in my local comprehensive. No Hitler love, but great hilarity around the Ethiopia famine for example. Shocking looking back, but Pretending this stuff was not going on is revisionist bullshit.
    Sure. But what about calculated persistent malevolent bullying of individual pupils because of their race? Was that an accepted norm at your school?
  • trukattrukat Posts: 96
    kinabalu said:

    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    Indeed. I'd go further. I'm older, and this notion that racist, or sexist, 'banter' was socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s just isn't true. Of course such banter existed, but both had been challenged since the mid-1960s by anti-racist and feminist groups and, though there remained much to do, such banter wasn't the norm any more, and its proponents were on the back foot, certainly by the mid-to-late 1970s.

    I rather suspect one of Farage's problems is that he perceived the banter of the posh-heads at Dulwich College (and subsequently in the City) as the norm.
    Well it was completely acceptable in my local comprehensive. No Hitler love, but great hilarity around the Ethiopia famine for example. Shocking looking back, but Pretending this stuff was not going on is revisionist bullshit.
    Sure. But what about calculated persistent malevolent bullying of individual pupils because of their race? Was that an accepted norm at your school?
    Not sure, never participated in any, to busy getting bullied for being poor.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,402
    edited 8:08PM

    GIN1138 said:

    And it was all going so well for Kemi...

    T
    R
    U
    S
    S

    Truss has moved beyond party politics as a national treasure so it won't have any consequences for Kemi.
    Oddly Kemi sort of half-complimented Truss the other day. Or truer to say consciously passed up a chance to put the boot in. Sort of said 'We had an energy crisis due to Ukraine - what's her (Reeves') excuse?' Let's hope others in the party also realise where the boot needs to be placed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,770

    Looks like it's official between Justin Trudeau and Katy Perry.

    https://x.com/justintrudeau/status/1996634839219593366

    Eww.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,402
    kinabalu said:

    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    Indeed. I'd go further. I'm older, and this notion that racist, or sexist, 'banter' was socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s just isn't true. Of course such banter existed, but both had been challenged since the mid-1960s by anti-racist and feminist groups and, though there remained much to do, such banter wasn't the norm any more, and its proponents were on the back foot, certainly by the mid-to-late 1970s.

    I rather suspect one of Farage's problems is that he perceived the banter of the posh-heads at Dulwich College (and subsequently in the City) as the norm.
    Well it was completely acceptable in my local comprehensive. No Hitler love, but great hilarity around the Ethiopia famine for example. Shocking looking back, but Pretending this stuff was not going on is revisionist bullshit.
    Sure. But what about calculated persistent malevolent bullying of individual pupils because of their race? Was that an accepted norm at your school?
    Is 'calculated persistent malevolent bullying of individual pupils' what happened, or has the story developed further in your head?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,133

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    On Scotland and nukes - Scotland doesn't always have a surplus on renewables (mostly wind).

    It varies between over production and under production, as the wind varies. Just the other day, the Scottish grid was majority gas and nuclear.

    There is nowhere near enough storage to deal with that, as yet.

    See https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/

    Quite so. Needs to be sorted out.
    Possibly. But the siting of the plant will be controversial. There's already a rebellion brewing across the Highlands about renewables infrastructure. One to watch.
    Not just the Highlands - the Borders too, and the coastal fringes.

    Mix of possibilities of course.
    As an example of the comedy - the farmer I know who is putting in a battery to back his solar array is still getting grief from the local Greens. They are very upset they can't seem to stop him, under planning law - but they are trying everything. Given that it's a couple of ISO containers, and not visible unless you are on his property (trees), I am try to work out the objection.

    He does say that they seem upset by his idea to sell 'leecy directly to the tenants of the small business centre he created out of the old stable yard.
    WTF is their problem ?
  • trukattrukat Posts: 96
    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    Indeed. I'd go further. I'm older, and this notion that racist, or sexist, 'banter' was socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s just isn't true. Of course such banter existed, but both had been challenged since the mid-1960s by anti-racist and feminist groups and, though there remained much to do, such banter wasn't the norm any more, and its proponents were on the back foot, certainly by the mid-to-late 1970s.

    I rather suspect one of Farage's problems is that he perceived the banter of the posh-heads at Dulwich College (and subsequently in the City) as the norm.
    Well it was completely acceptable in my local comprehensive. No Hitler love, but great hilarity around the Ethiopia famine for example. Shocking looking back, but Pretending this stuff was not going on is revisionist bullshit.
    Sure. But what about calculated persistent malevolent bullying of individual pupils because of their race? Was that an accepted norm at your school?
    Not sure, never participated in any, to busy getting bullied for being poor.
    Oh w8 I think someone tried to bully Wing, a chinese student. Shat himself when Wing pulled a butterfly knife on him though. It might of been racial but not persistent. I think the guy wanted his insides to stay inside of him.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,133
    Now that is quite the change.

    California - Democratic Presidential Polling:

    Newsom: 36%
    Buttigieg: 16%
    AOC: 13%
    Harris: 9%
    Pritzker: 4%
    Shapiro: 3%
    Whitmer: 2%
    Beshear: 2%
    Booker: 2%
    Klobuchar: 1%

    Emerson / Dec 2, 2025

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1996644967947948478
  • Ireland, Spain, Slovenia and the Netherlands have pulled out of the Eurovision Song Contest because Israel has been confirmed to be taking part in 2026.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ce3xrywzpn6t

    However, it looks to me like the push against Israel has almost entirely failed. Other than perhaps Iceland, other nations don't seem to be leaning toward a boycott, and 5 countries pulling out isn't enough to jeopardise the contest's viability.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,812

    I’m not sure why Middlesex are allowed to play as the county doesn’t exist.

    Crisis club Middlesex begin plan to move away from Lord’s

    Exclusive: County take step towards private ownership amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive


    Middlesex have taken the first step towards private ownership to fund a new home away from Lord’s.

    The crisis-plagued county have told members they are actively exploring demutualisation after being plunged into fresh turmoil amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive.

    Andrew Cornish was absent from a meeting with members on Tuesday at which the club began a formal consultation over becoming just the fourth first-class county to go private.

    Chairman Richard Sykes told Telegraph Sport that Cornish was “on a leave of absence”, adding: “The Cricket Regulator is involved and I can’t say more than that.”

    The investigation into Cornish, who has denied any wrongdoing, is unrelated to demutualisation. But the timing could hardly be worse for the 161-year-old club as they look to join Durham, Northamptonshire and Hampshire in becoming privately owned.

    As tenants of Marylebone Cricket Club at Lord’s, Middlesex are unique among the 18 counties as they do not own their home ground. This means they are unable to make money through non-cricket activities such as conferencing and events.

    They play at a series of outgrounds such as Merchant Taylors’ School, Richmond and Radlett, but have long sought a “home away from home” to provide stability and generate income. Sykes believes the only way to raise the funds for this is via demutualisation.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/12/02/middlesex-county-cricket-club-plan-move-away-lords-private/

    "Yorkshire" doesn't exist either:

    West Yorkshire
    North Yorkshire
    South Yorkshire
    East Riding
    There's no South Yorkshire, it is all West Riding. Including Saddleworth.
    I mean currently!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,275
    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    Indeed. I'd go further. I'm older, and this notion that racist, or sexist, 'banter' was socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s just isn't true. Of course such banter existed, but both had been challenged since the mid-1960s by anti-racist and feminist groups and, though there remained much to do, such banter wasn't the norm any more, and its proponents were on the back foot, certainly by the mid-to-late 1970s.

    I rather suspect one of Farage's problems is that he perceived the banter of the posh-heads at Dulwich College (and subsequently in the City) as the norm.
    Well it was completely acceptable in my local comprehensive. No Hitler love, but great hilarity around the Ethiopia famine for example. Shocking looking back, but Pretending this stuff was not going on is revisionist bullshit.
    Sure. But what about calculated persistent malevolent bullying of individual pupils because of their race? Was that an accepted norm at your school?
    Not sure, never participated in any, to busy getting bullied for being poor.
    Ah yes. We had some of that. I remember jokes about famines also. And bullying of the mentally handicapped. It was no hotbed of enlightenment. None of which ameliorates to me the specific revelations about Farage. But what matters is what people who might vote for Reform think. Would that include you perchance?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,059
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    On Scotland and nukes - Scotland doesn't always have a surplus on renewables (mostly wind).

    It varies between over production and under production, as the wind varies. Just the other day, the Scottish grid was majority gas and nuclear.

    There is nowhere near enough storage to deal with that, as yet.

    See https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/

    Quite so. Needs to be sorted out.
    Possibly. But the siting of the plant will be controversial. There's already a rebellion brewing across the Highlands about renewables infrastructure. One to watch.
    Not just the Highlands - the Borders too, and the coastal fringes.

    Mix of possibilities of course.
    As an example of the comedy - the farmer I know who is putting in a battery to back his solar array is still getting grief from the local Greens. They are very upset they can't seem to stop him, under planning law - but they are trying everything. Given that it's a couple of ISO containers, and not visible unless you are on his property (trees), I am try to work out the objection.

    He does say that they seem upset by his idea to sell 'leecy directly to the tenants of the small business centre he created out of the old stable yard.
    WTF is their problem ?
    Opposition to everything, probably.

    The Green parties, around the world, started as gatherings of the opponents to various things. So adding in fuckwit NIMBYism is just adding more members/votes.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,275

    kinabalu said:

    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    Indeed. I'd go further. I'm older, and this notion that racist, or sexist, 'banter' was socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s just isn't true. Of course such banter existed, but both had been challenged since the mid-1960s by anti-racist and feminist groups and, though there remained much to do, such banter wasn't the norm any more, and its proponents were on the back foot, certainly by the mid-to-late 1970s.

    I rather suspect one of Farage's problems is that he perceived the banter of the posh-heads at Dulwich College (and subsequently in the City) as the norm.
    Well it was completely acceptable in my local comprehensive. No Hitler love, but great hilarity around the Ethiopia famine for example. Shocking looking back, but Pretending this stuff was not going on is revisionist bullshit.
    Sure. But what about calculated persistent malevolent bullying of individual pupils because of their race? Was that an accepted norm at your school?
    Is 'calculated persistent malevolent bullying of individual pupils' what happened, or has the story developed further in your head?
    It's what happened if you believe the people saying that it did. Which I do.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,890

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    On Scotland and nukes - Scotland doesn't always have a surplus on renewables (mostly wind).

    It varies between over production and under production, as the wind varies. Just the other day, the Scottish grid was majority gas and nuclear.

    There is nowhere near enough storage to deal with that, as yet.

    See https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/

    Quite so. Needs to be sorted out.
    Possibly. But the siting of the plant will be controversial. There's already a rebellion brewing across the Highlands about renewables infrastructure. One to watch.
    Not just the Highlands - the Borders too, and the coastal fringes.

    Mix of possibilities of course.
    As an example of the comedy - the farmer I know who is putting in a battery to back his solar array is still getting grief from the local Greens. They are very upset they can't seem to stop him, under planning law - but they are trying everything. Given that it's a couple of ISO containers, and not visible unless you are on his property (trees), I am try to work out the objection.

    He does say that they seem upset by his idea to sell 'leecy directly to the tenants of the small business centre he created out of the old stable yard.
    WTF is their problem ?
    Opposition to everything, probably.

    The Green parties, around the world, started as gatherings of the opponents to various things. So adding in fuckwit NIMBYism is just adding more members/votes.
    It's the dark shadow of the Housing Theory Of Everything.

    All the dumb shit people argue for boils down to not wanting more houses built near them.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,770
    I can only assume these polls aren't prompting for Your Party.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,908
    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    It's fine, we're neutral, no-one will attack us.

    FOUR UNIDENTIFIED MILITARY-STYLE drones breached a no-fly zone and flew towards the flight path of Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s plane at sea near Dublin Airport late on Monday night, The Journal has learned.

    The plane landed, slightly ahead of schedule, just moments before the incident happened at about 11pm. The drones reached the location where Zelenskyy’s plane was expected to be at the exact moment it had been due to pass.

    The drones then orbited above an Irish Navy vessel that had secretly been deployed in the Irish Sea for the Zelenskyy visit.

    Sources have said that the drones took off from the north-east of Dublin, possibly near Howth, and flew for up to two hours.


    https://www.thejournal.ie/drones-dublin-ireland-hybrid-warfare-russia-6893104-Dec2025/

    Better get used to more Russian assassination attempts along those lines, on European or UK territory.

    And sort out some serious anti-drone systems for our airports.
    It will spice up Big Jet TV.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,556
    What's doing for Farage, to the extent anything gets through the teflon, is not his teenage racism, it's his complete inability to say, "I did some horrible things when I was younger. I apologise to the people I hurt."
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,890
    edited 8:24PM

    I can only assume these polls aren't prompting for Your Party.

    Given the likely fate of Your Party, that's probably for the best if we want an insight into the 2029 election.
  • trukattrukat Posts: 96
    kinabalu said:

    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    Indeed. I'd go further. I'm older, and this notion that racist, or sexist, 'banter' was socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s just isn't true. Of course such banter existed, but both had been challenged since the mid-1960s by anti-racist and feminist groups and, though there remained much to do, such banter wasn't the norm any more, and its proponents were on the back foot, certainly by the mid-to-late 1970s.

    I rather suspect one of Farage's problems is that he perceived the banter of the posh-heads at Dulwich College (and subsequently in the City) as the norm.
    Well it was completely acceptable in my local comprehensive. No Hitler love, but great hilarity around the Ethiopia famine for example. Shocking looking back, but Pretending this stuff was not going on is revisionist bullshit.
    Sure. But what about calculated persistent malevolent bullying of individual pupils because of their race? Was that an accepted norm at your school?
    Not sure, never participated in any, to busy getting bullied for being poor.
    Ah yes. We had some of that. I remember jokes about famines also. And bullying of the mentally handicapped. It was no hotbed of enlightenment. None of which ameliorates to me the specific revelations about Farage. But what matters is what people who might vote for Reform think. Would that include you perchance?
    What I think is that people are desperate. And what Farage said 50 years ago might lower the Reform ceiling a bit. But if you want to stop Farage getting into number 10, your best bet is:

    Get rid of Starmer and reset.

    Get someone in with a plan and half decent communication skills.

    Much as it pains me to say as a right winger, do not be afraid to move left.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,542

    I’m not sure why Middlesex are allowed to play as the county doesn’t exist.

    Crisis club Middlesex begin plan to move away from Lord’s

    Exclusive: County take step towards private ownership amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive


    Middlesex have taken the first step towards private ownership to fund a new home away from Lord’s.

    The crisis-plagued county have told members they are actively exploring demutualisation after being plunged into fresh turmoil amid a Cricket Regulator investigation into their chief executive.

    Andrew Cornish was absent from a meeting with members on Tuesday at which the club began a formal consultation over becoming just the fourth first-class county to go private.

    Chairman Richard Sykes told Telegraph Sport that Cornish was “on a leave of absence”, adding: “The Cricket Regulator is involved and I can’t say more than that.”

    The investigation into Cornish, who has denied any wrongdoing, is unrelated to demutualisation. But the timing could hardly be worse for the 161-year-old club as they look to join Durham, Northamptonshire and Hampshire in becoming privately owned.

    As tenants of Marylebone Cricket Club at Lord’s, Middlesex are unique among the 18 counties as they do not own their home ground. This means they are unable to make money through non-cricket activities such as conferencing and events.

    They play at a series of outgrounds such as Merchant Taylors’ School, Richmond and Radlett, but have long sought a “home away from home” to provide stability and generate income. Sykes believes the only way to raise the funds for this is via demutualisation.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2025/12/02/middlesex-county-cricket-club-plan-move-away-lords-private/

    "Yorkshire" doesn't exist either:

    West Yorkshire
    North Yorkshire
    South Yorkshire
    East Riding
    There's no South Yorkshire, it is all West Riding. Including Saddleworth.
    I mean currently!
    No man can take away what is God's own.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,313
    Would Jenrick's defection actually destabilise the Tories? I think it might do the opposite.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,215

    Ireland, Spain, Slovenia and the Netherlands have pulled out of the Eurovision Song Contest because Israel has been confirmed to be taking part in 2026.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ce3xrywzpn6t

    However, it looks to me like the push against Israel has almost entirely failed. Other than perhaps Iceland, other nations don't seem to be leaning toward a boycott, and 5 countries pulling out isn't enough to jeopardise the contest's viability.

    8 countries voted to make it a secret ballot over the new voting rules*, there was no vote on Israel continuing to participate.

    .*"Among them, we'll see professional juries return to Semi-Finals with expanded, more diverse panels, including young jurors aged 18–25. The voting cap for viewers voting at home will be halved for 2026, encouraging fans to spread support across more entries. Enhanced technical safeguards will also be introduced, to detect and block coordinated or fraudulent voting activity. And stronger limits on promotion will be implemented to curb disproportionate third-party influence, including government-backed campaigns."

    https://eurovision.tv/story/voting-overhaul-announced-eurovision-2026

  • trukattrukat Posts: 96
    edited 8:33PM

    Would Jenrick's defection actually destabilise the Tories? I think it might do the opposite.


    Reform have to many Tories already. They should only be interested in defections that give them economic credibility. Hunt would be the absolute dream for them, never going to happen of course.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,770
    Pulpstar said:

    MattW said:

    On topic !!!

    Have we done Christopher Harborne's £9 million donation to Reform?

    https://www.ft.com/content/db73535f-7d9d-4586-b53a-a690d3b0e36d

    From wiki:

    "In November 2022, Harborne donated £1 million to The Office of Boris Johnson Ltd, one of the biggest donations ever made to an individual British politician.[13] Boris Johnson awarded Qinetiq, a company in which Harborne was the largest single shareholder, with a £80m MoD contract in January 2023."
    One thing that is frankly amazing is that people enamoured by Boris seem to be drawn to Farage and vice-versa even though the realities of their (Possible in the case of Farage and historical in Boris' case) governance likely couldn't be more different especially regarding migration - which is the key issue for most people drawn to both I'd say.
    It's the vibe.

    Same reason why Rishi (who actually voted for Brexit) was considered "Remainy" and yet Truss (who didn't) was considered the "Leavey" one.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,133

    kinabalu said:

    trukat said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    The point is Farage was about 14 or 15 at the time, while the BBC, run by fully grown adults, was showing the Black and White Minstrel Show during the same period.
    It's not much of a point, though, is it.
    Isn't it?
    That's what I said, didn't I?
    Yes and you’re wrong. It’s perfectly valid point to make.

    Societal cultural norms change over time. What’s acceptable now won’t be in a decade. The further you go back the more the change.
    I'm NF's age. It wasn't any sort of cultural norm in the 70s to taunt and bully Jewish people about Nazi atrocities. He's flapping around desperately and dishonestly.
    Indeed. I'd go further. I'm older, and this notion that racist, or sexist, 'banter' was socially acceptable in the 70s and 80s just isn't true. Of course such banter existed, but both had been challenged since the mid-1960s by anti-racist and feminist groups and, though there remained much to do, such banter wasn't the norm any more, and its proponents were on the back foot, certainly by the mid-to-late 1970s.

    I rather suspect one of Farage's problems is that he perceived the banter of the posh-heads at Dulwich College (and subsequently in the City) as the norm.
    Well it was completely acceptable in my local comprehensive. No Hitler love, but great hilarity around the Ethiopia famine for example. Shocking looking back, but Pretending this stuff was not going on is revisionist bullshit.
    Sure. But what about calculated persistent malevolent bullying of individual pupils because of their race? Was that an accepted norm at your school?
    Is 'calculated persistent malevolent bullying of individual pupils' what happened, or has the story developed further in your head?
    No, on the pages of the national press.

    You can choose to believe it or not, but you can't debunk the story by saying it's a figment of kinablu's imagination.

    Nigel Farage ‘was my vicious, persistent tormentor’ at school
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/nigel-farage-racism-claims-dulwich-college-kpwnz8cn6
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,367
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Phil said:

    algarkirk said:

    While Farage is expert at whataboutery, straw men, rephrasing, non apologies and so on, I just draw attention to what, it is alleged, comes from the actual time when he was at school, written in 1981 by a teacher to the head. It includes these words:


    “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”


    As contemporaneous evidence from decades before people knew he might be PM it is, if authentic (and Michael Crick says it is) it is of greater evidential value than all the (I have no doubt generally reliable) accounts from memories years later.

    How important it is is a separate question. But I think Reform and Farage are troubled by this.
    Farage’s whataboutism on the BBC & 1970s is clever, but ultimately nothing more than a smokescreen to try and cover for his unwillingness to acknowledge or apologies for his teenage edgelordism. For all the faults of the 70s, the BBC was not the one bashing out the Horst Wessel song on the regular.

    What’s weird about this story is that all Farage has to do is to acknowledge that he was a bit of a shit as a teenager, apologise to all concerned & move on - this far away from the next GE he has plenty of time to make this a non-story electorally. For some reason he feels unable to do this.
    There is rather a large difference in the current attitude of the BBC to what it broadcast fifty years ago, and Farage's attitude to his past "banter". Which is very much the point.

    The BBC has changed; has he ?
    How do you know the BBC has changed? Has anyone asked it lately? That's the point Farage is making.
    Has anyone asked it? Do you mean has the BBC been under intense scrutiny lately? Because yes, it has. Far more than Farage has.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,367
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    He does have a fair point here. Many BBC shows now have ‘trigger warnings’ even Little Britain and, yes, racist TV shows and shows that would fall foul of today’s modern sensibilities were in abundance on all three channels back then.

    You also have the MSM trying to give the guy from Oxford Uni who gloated over Charlie Kirk’s death friendly interviews to plead his case as he shouldn’t pay for saying silly things when young. I don’t think that’s unfair. What Farage said over 40 years at school, who cares, it what he is now that matters.
    Should the Oxford Union guy go on to lead a major political party with a solid chance of becoming PM, I'm sure he'll also be quizzed about the things he said when younger.

    As for what Farage is now... well, people look at him, he's praising Trump, thinks the Ukraine war is the fault of NATO, and blames everything else on immigrants.
    No, the Oxford guy said something stupid. He should be allowed to get on with his life.

    As for your final sentence that really is untrue for the final two and his praise of Trump has been sparse and specific.
    Even The Spectator says Farage blames the Ukraine war on NATO (and EU) expansion: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-nigel-farage-gets-wrong-about-the-ukraine-war/
    That’s an Op Ed.

    He’s been critical of Putin, rightly so.

    The Wests timid reaction to the initial annexation of parts of Ukraine and Georgia was poor. How much of that was Russian influence ?
    It’s an op ed based on what Farage has said with his own mouth. Like how Farage praises Trump with his own mouth, frequently and repeatedly. This is who he is.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,367
    slade said:

    Nigelb said:

    56% rise in patients in hospital with flu on 2024

    1,717 in hospital beds last week

    With all the flu vaccinations available today, especially for the elderly, why the increase ?

    Because vaccinations only effective against the particular strains selected, which is an educated guess. And i'm willing to suspect 'the flu' is not confirmed cases of influenza but people with respiratory problems, viral and bacterial.
    There is indeed something of a mismatch between the vaccine (whose details are necessarily fixed earlier in the year), and the prevalent strain;
    https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2025/11/11/how-well-will-i-be-protected-from-flu-this-year-with-the-current-uk-influenza-vaccines/

    Also Covid is still around, and still pretty nasty compared to the average respiratory virus.
    I have had an upper RTI for a week, It was so bad I tested myself for Covid (negative). I hope it improves over the weekend.
    I’ve had an upper RTI for two and a half weeks! I hope you don’t have the same strain coz it drags on and on.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,504
    What might hurt Farage isn’t the schooldays allegations themselves (I think enough people tend to be willing to give people a pass for their behaviour at school), but his rather prickly, thin-skinned reaction to them. Another example of him rather forgetting that he isn’t Donald Trump and probably can’t get away with tantrums in the same way as his idol.

    I hesitate to predict a Reform collapse - I think it is still very plausible they’ll continue to poll well all parliament - but Farage is his own worst enemy and it’s not inconceivable that he ends up torpedoing his own chances. More of this whingey stuff won’t help him.
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