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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ipsos Mori April Political Monitor is out

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  • Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    edited April 2014
    I think the polls wont change much until about Feb 2015 when we will see a Labour collapse in the last weeks before the 2015 election. Not for any political reason, but because people first and foremost are animals not logical thinkers like computers and basic animal instinct or prejudice means quite a number will not vote for a party led by Ed Miliband for the same cruel reason that the child who comes across as slightly "different" gets shunned by his less kind classmates. This is a major problem for democracy in a 24 hour live media age when every word image and gesture is visible all the time in a way that it wasn't 100 years ago and most had to rely on a formal posed photograph and newspaper reports.

    I suspect the tories will get close to a majority, but not quite and we could see a minority tory government kept in power for a couple years by a supply and confidence arrangement with the DUP with any UKIP MPs refusing to enter any formal or informal agreement but voting as they see fit.

    It will become interesting when the artificial boom caused by the likes of help to buy unravels after 2015

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    antifrank said:

    Totally off topic, but I'm currently speeding on the Edinburgh to London line, and once again marvelling at the Scottish coastline. This really must be one of the best train journeys anywhere.

    If you are going through Berwick station, you might care to reflect that it is bult on top of the castle, with the goods yard (now car park) in the moat, and that you will be passing pretty much over the castle hall where Edward Longshanks of England attempted to intervene in the Scottish succession.

    And you will also be passing over Dunbar battlefield (just north of the cement works) - another key site for Anglo-Scottish history.

    As is Berwick itself. Very fine mediaeval, Elizabethan and later military history - and the first purpose built barracks in the UK. And the only (?) church built by Cromwell in England - a fine Presbyterian block camped up into high churcn Anglican.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903
    Scotland can and should use the pound outside of a currency union. It's clearly the best choice. However it also clearly makes independence seem a little bit weaker. Essentially Scottish independence is meaningless. It's very expensive 'name only' stuff. Scotland's fate will never be different to England's in the current world. Bizarrely the very things that the SNP want to keep are the cause of the friction anyway - the monarchy for example.

    The SNP should really be saying "hold up, we've actually achieved what we wanted", rather than recklessly following a dogma.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Incidentally, I saw Mr. Eagles' post about the new He-man film. One assumes this was his reaction:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ5LpwO-An4#aid=P-ozXcYHEZE

    That video is also the top result if you search Youtube for 'manliest video'.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    I think the polls wont change much until about Feb 2015 when we will see a Labour collapse in the last weeks before the 2015 election. Not for any political reason, but because people first and foremost are animals not logical thinkers like computers and basic animal instinct or prejudice means quite a number will not vote for a party led by Ed Miliband for the same cruel reason that the child who comes across as slightly "different" gets shunned by his less kind classmates. This is a major problem for democracy in a 24 hour live media age when every word image and gesture is visible all the time in a way that it wasn't 100 years ago and most had to rely on a formal posed photograph and newspaper reports.

    I suspect the tories will get close to a majority, but not quite and we could see a minority tory government kept in power for a couple years by a supply and confidence arrangement with the DUP with any UKIP MPs refusing to enter any formal or informal agreement but voting as they see fit.

    It will become interesting when the artificial boom caused by the likes of help to buy unravels after 2015

    David Cameron would have been very "different" at my school.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. G, as is usually the case I don't read each and every post on here, so I must've missed that (don't think it was in the post I replied to directly).

    You're right that Scotland could use the pound outside of a currency union, although that would seem rather odd (to me).

    It seems odd to me, too. There again so much of the SNP planning for independence strikes me as being lacking in thought and based more on dream than reality.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Off topic criminal justice madness - this gem was in the local paper here today.

    A 28-year old local woman snorted cocaine off the bonnet of an unmarked police car while an undercover officer sat behind the wheel and watched, the Supreme Court heard yesterday.

    The woman was later stopped and charged with possession of 0.17 grams of cocaine.

    But C**** M****, who appeared for the defence, suggested that the defendant had allowed friends to store their belongings in her bag that night and the drugs could have belonged to someone else.

    The jury agreed and returned a unanimous not guilty verdict.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    I liked this: "The pro-UK Better Together campaign and Scottish Labour argue privately that since their main campaigns against independence have not yet started, the latest opinion polls only reflect a temporary public mood."



  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    edited April 2014
    Mr. Carnyx, they have not even begun to fight!

    For their sake, I hope they're doing better than the Carthaginians. The city itself only developed a backbone when utter defeat was absolutely certain. More resolution in the first two Punic Wars could have seen the results reversed.

    Edited extra bit: TA Dodge's book on Gustavus Adolphus is out for Kindle, I think it's £2-3. I'm going to try the sample (not hugely taken with his Napoleon books, the warfare is far less engaging than ancient stuff), but thought I'd mention it.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Omnium said:

    Scotland can and should use the pound outside of a currency union. It's clearly the best choice. However it also clearly makes independence seem a little bit weaker. Essentially Scottish independence is meaningless. It's very expensive 'name only' stuff. Scotland's fate will never be different to England's in the current world. Bizarrely the very things that the SNP want to keep are the cause of the friction anyway - the monarchy for example.

    The SNP should really be saying "hold up, we've actually achieved what we wanted", rather than recklessly following a dogma.

    I'm guessing you haven't studied much economics? Using the pound outside a currency union is by far the weakest option. The best (for them) is probably a currency union, then their own currency. Heck, joining the Euro is probably better than using a currency without the back up of a central bank. They would lose their entire financial sector (one of only two reasons they are richer than most UK regions) overnight.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    isam said:

    Mobile roaming in Europe going to be introduced and today I get this text from EE

    From 28 May we are increasing some of our prices in line with RPI (Retail Price Index), a measure linked to inflation. The price of your monthly plan will increase by 2.7%. We are also making changes to charges when you go over or use services outside of your allowance, visit www.ee.co.uk/t-mobile-newrates for more information. You'll see the change on your bill from 28 May 2014. To calculate your new monthly plan cost visit www.ee.co.uk/t-mobile-pricechanges

    I used to be on EE, and they did a mid-contract price hike. This is not new.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    That really stood out.
    Carnyx said:

    I liked this: "The pro-UK Better Together campaign and Scottish Labour argue privately that since their main campaigns against independence have not yet started, the latest opinion polls only reflect a temporary public mood."



  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    * Diplomacy Post *

    The two current PB diplomacy games are proving most entertaining. PB 21014 MK2 seems to have coalesced into a Russio-Italian alliance against the Turk in the East but still a furball in the West, good stuff. Meanwhile over in the Death Match we have England going North, France Going south and Germany resolutely refusing to drive into the Gap; Italy needs a friend but Dr. Palmer's new tactic of refusing to take builds makes that unlikely, whilst Andy Cooke schemes, plots, lies, and offers a false honeyed tongue as he gradually extends his tentacles.

    Is there any appetite for another game? I think there are some posters and lurkers around who have expressed an interest in the past, so how about it, people?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2014
    Was out for the Evans verdict.

    Clearly the verdict was correct, but it doesn't follow that the trial was a mistake.

    Sarah Woolaston was definitely correct to advise the complainants to contact the police. It is not for the Speaker's or a Chief Whip's office to investigate allegations of sexual abuse, at least beyond the initial stages. Westminster has a club culture where the instinctive reaction to such allegations is to close ranks and cover up. Woolaston had both professional experience and a (self-appointed) 'independence' within the club to justify her actions. As pointed out downthread she didn't contact the police herself but persuaded the complainants that it was their correct course of action.

    The Police have most to answer for, but even here I can understand how the investigations led to flawed evidence. In a post Savile world, it is vital that the police protect the vulnerable from the predations of the rich and powerful. The Police appear to have instituted a "victim focus" policy to help them overcome biases in the criminal system and wider society which prevent the reporting and prosecution of genuine abuse. Reluctant witnesses, fearful or reticent 'victims' and personal rather legal interpretations of evidence are rightly seen as barriers to justice which need to be 'broken down' during investigation. Is a rape or sexual assault not an offence because the 'victim' doesn't regard it as such, or, is it dependent on objective evaluation of the actions of the parties?

    In the Evans case, it appears that the 'victim focus' policy of the police investigators led to statements being made reluctantly, or even under 'protest', which later did not stand up under cross-examination in court. Getting the right balance of 'victim focus' and 'open-minded investigation' must be extraordinarily difficult for the police, especially when the allegations involve the most powerful and protected in the land. It is clear from the verdict in the Evans case that this balance wasn't right but I would be reluctant to blame the police given the clear need to change their policy from that of the pre-Savile era.

    It is difficult too to blame the CPS. They were not to know that the statements filed would be contradicted in court. Had this not happened then the verdict may well have been very different. And there is a clear public interest in prosecuting the high and mighty where proper evaluation of the evidence warrants.

    So tough though it undoubtedly has been on Nigel Evans, this was probably a trial which was justifiable and necessary. As Evans himself said there are "no winners", but there probably were no mistakes either.

    I look forward to Nigel Evans being cheered back to his seat in the HoCs and hope he continues as an MP beyond the next election, subject of course to continued constituency support which looks likely.

    This was a unfortunate case, but we may be all be better protected for it having been brought to court.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Mr. Carnyx, they have not even begun to fight!

    For their sake, I hope they're doing better than the Carthaginians. The city itself only developed a backbone when utter defeat was absolutely certain. More resolution in the first two Punic Wars could have seen the results reversed.

    Edited extra bit: TA Dodge's book on Gustavus Adolphus is out for Kindle, I think it's £2-3. I'm going to try the sample (not hugely taken with his Napoleon books, the warfare is far less engaging than ancient stuff), but thought I'd mention it.

    Mm, thanks. Never looked into that period myself, but I ought to as I am so interested in the Civil Wars of Britain and Ireland - especially Dunbar and Cromwell (partly because it is so confusing in terms of changed loyalties and partly because I am so familiar with the A1/East Coast corridor - full of that sort of history because it is the main invasion route.

    Disclaimer: when I recommend/discuss local military history it is without any reference to modern-day politics! There was afer all 300 years of peace (Jacobites and revolutionaries excepted) during which the southerners could come to abase themselves before the brilliance of the Scottish Enlightenment. Which reminds me James Hutton's Siccar Point - the first demonstration of the abyss of geological time - is on Mr Jessop's coastal route, continued northwards.

  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    * Diplomacy Post *

    The two current PB diplomacy games are proving most entertaining. PB 21014 MK2 seems to have coalesced into a Russio-Italian alliance against the Turk in the East but still a furball in the West, good stuff. Meanwhile over in the Death Match we have England going North, France Going south and Germany resolutely refusing to drive into the Gap; Italy needs a friend but Dr. Palmer's new tactic of refusing to take builds makes that unlikely, whilst Andy Cooke schemes, plots, lies, and offers a false honeyed tongue as he gradually extends his tentacles.

    Is there any appetite for another game? I think there are some posters and lurkers around who have expressed an interest in the past, so how about it, people?

    I'm enjoying it a lot, I've bought a Premium membership so if there is another game started I'd be well up for it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    AveryLP said:

    Was out for the Evans verdict.

    Clearly the verdict was correct, but it doesn't follow that the trial was a mistake.





    In the Evans case, it appears that the 'victim focus' policy of the police investigators led to statements being made reluctantly, or even under 'protest', which later did not stand up under cross-examination in court. Getting the right balance of 'victim focus' and 'open-minded investigation' must be extraordinarily difficult for the police, especially when the allegations involve the most powerful and protected in the land. It is clear from the verdict in the Evans case that this balance wasn't right but I would be reluctant to blame the police given the clear need to change their policy from that of the pre-Savile era.

    It is difficult too to blame the CPS. They were not to know that the statements filed would be contradicted in court. Had this not happened then the verdict may well have been very different. And there is a clear public interest in prosecuting the high and mighty where proper evaluation of the evidence warrants.

    So tough though it undoubtedly has been on Nigel Evans, this was probably a trial which was justifiable and necessary. As Evans himself said there are "no winners", but there probably were no mistakes either.

    I look forward to Nigel Evans being cheered back to his seat in the HoCs and hope he continues as an MP beyond the next election, subject of course to continued constituency support which looks likely.

    This was a unfortunate case, but we may be all be better protected for it having been brought to court.

    Just some freeloading chancers upset that the guy had stopped buying them drinks no doubt. They should be charged with wasting police time and public money and banged up.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2014
    malcolmg said:

    AveryLP said:

    Was out for the Evans verdict.

    Clearly the verdict was correct, but it doesn't follow that the trial was a mistake.

    ...

    This was a unfortunate case, but we may be all be better protected for it having been brought to court.

    Just some freeloading chancers upset that the guy had stopped buying them drinks no doubt. They should be charged with wasting police time and public money and banged up.
    Malc

    I look forward to you being appointed Minister for Justice in a newly independent Scotland.

    You would be far better than that lily-livered Kenny MacAskill.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    AveryLP said:


    Malc

    I look forward to you being appointed Minister for Justice in a newly independent Scotland.

    You would be far better than that lily-livered Kenny MacAskill.

    Does he know the difference between 3 months and 3 years?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Freggles said:

    * Diplomacy Post *

    The two current PB diplomacy games are proving most entertaining. PB 21014 MK2 seems to have coalesced into a Russio-Italian alliance against the Turk in the East but still a furball in the West, good stuff. Meanwhile over in the Death Match we have England going North, France Going south and Germany resolutely refusing to drive into the Gap; Italy needs a friend but Dr. Palmer's new tactic of refusing to take builds makes that unlikely, whilst Andy Cooke schemes, plots, lies, and offers a false honeyed tongue as he gradually extends his tentacles.

    Is there any appetite for another game? I think there are some posters and lurkers around who have expressed an interest in the past, so how about it, people?

    I'm enjoying it a lot, I've bought a Premium membership so if there is another game started I'd be well up for it.
    Mr. Freggles, and all,

    I have set up a game PB 2014 MK3, with a password of catsandkittens. Just a standard game for fun.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2014
    Scott_P said:

    AveryLP said:


    Malc

    I look forward to you being appointed Minister for Justice in a newly independent Scotland.

    You would be far better than that lily-livered Kenny MacAskill.

    Does he know the difference between 3 months and 3 years?
    Under Malc everyone would get 30 years, and no 'remission'.

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Good post on UKPR from Peter Crawford - deserves a repost

    This ipsos mori poll isn’t great for the blues…it takes you back to the pre-budget labour leads except that ukip is now riding high…
    one of the great things about this fantastic site is the historical polls anthony has…
    I did a very simple thing and took an average of all the polls in the 13 months from Dec 1 1990 to April 1992…the results were interesting. Thatcher was toppled in November 1990.
    The average of all the polls was: Con 39.7% Lab 40.4% LD 15.0%
    The tories got a good initial bounce after ditching maggie, but the polls were essentially neck and neck for about 15 months…
    The blues were simply performing better in the polls at the equivalent stage of the 1987-1992 parliament.
    Indeed for March 1991, roughly where we are now at the equivalent state of that parliament, the averages of all the polls in that month were:
    Con 41.0% Lab 38.4% and LD 15.2%
    Indeed, in the 13 polls taken that month, the tories were ahead in 8, labour in 4 and equal in 1.
    Of course, none of this proves anything… it is mainly of historical interest. It just shows that picture the polls presented at this stage was much more in the balance and much tighter than the equivalents today…
    Obviously a lot can change etc….
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    Osborne should be worried - he's up to Brown's level of voter satisfaction
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    Can I just say that Kevan Jones and Rob Flello should hang their heads in shame over their twitter comments about Sajid Javid. Particularly as Flello - who was complaining about Javid not *earning* the money he earned in his work as a banker - used to work for Price Waterhouse and Arthur Anderson.

    The words 'pot' and 'kettle' come to mind.

    Labour: the real nasty party.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100267269/labour-fears-sajid-javid-because-hes-everything-its-not-working-class-non-white-successful/
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    Carnyx said:

    I liked this: "The pro-UK Better Together campaign and Scottish Labour argue privately that since their main campaigns against independence have not yet started, the latest opinion polls only reflect a temporary public mood."



    :-)
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Malcolm @OldLabour

    The No response to this was to go back to the Treasury one-armed bandit and quote deficit numbers that are entirely meaningless to 90% of the population. The No campaign is a joke.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    The Channel 4 News item on sexual harassment in the Palace of Westminster looks like it could be a ticking time bomb. Young men such as student interns more likely to be harassed and talk of male MPs experimenting with their sexuality.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    Peter Hain can chunter to himself:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-26919359
    and
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-26976719

    The relatives deserve justice, if it can be obtained.

    (Although he does say all crimes before the Good Friday Agreement, when the Omagh bombing was a few months later. But that does not make any sense from a justice point of view, either).
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Idle thought for the bankers here O/T: I've been considering changing bank accounts, and appreciate it's easier than it used to be, but telling everyone who sends payments for translation about the new account would still be too much of a pain. If we accept that consumer ease in changing is good for competition, might the government reasonably arrange (by agreement with the BBA if possible) that everyone was offered a unique bank account number which they could transfer between banks? This seems the sort of thing that the market can't easily do by itself, but it doesn't interfere with anyone's freedom or privacy. People who didn't want it could just carry on with their current number. There would be transitional costs, but is there otherwise a serious snag?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    might the government reasonably arrange (by agreement with the BBA if possible) that everyone was offered a unique bank account number which they could transfer between banks?

    Discussed previously. The issue IIRC is that the account is uniquely identified by a combination of Sort Code and account number.

    Changing the sort codes is actually the problem as I understand it
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    The Channel 4 News item on sexual harassment in the Palace of Westminster looks like it could be a ticking time bomb. Young men such as student interns more likely to be harassed and talk of male MPs experimenting with their sexuality.

    As with expenses, the key question to ask is: why is this workplace not like others, and if it isn't, why are the natives being allowed to get away with it? It works for expenses, it works for pubs on site, it works for subsidised food, it works for pensions, and it works for behaviour that verges on the BBC's mores a decade or two ago. Moreover, this is the very institution that banned such behaviour - at the cost of severe civil and, where applicable, criminal penalties.

    There is no very formal contract of employment or hierarchy, but on the other hand there is an informal if intangible hierarchy which invites abuse by both sides. There is at least one other instance of this which springs to mind (and I am being gender/orientation neutral here).



  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Idle thought for the bankers here O/T: I've been considering changing bank accounts, and appreciate it's easier than it used to be, but telling everyone who sends payments for translation about the new account would still be too much of a pain. If we accept that consumer ease in changing is good for competition, might the government reasonably arrange (by agreement with the BBA if possible) that everyone was offered a unique bank account number which they could transfer between banks? This seems the sort of thing that the market can't easily do by itself, but it doesn't interfere with anyone's freedom or privacy. People who didn't want it could just carry on with their current number. There would be transitional costs, but is there otherwise a serious snag?

    Sounds like smart economics to me.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Idle thought for the bankers here O/T: I've been considering changing bank accounts, and appreciate it's easier than it used to be, but telling everyone who sends payments for translation about the new account would still be too much of a pain. If we accept that consumer ease in changing is good for competition, might the government reasonably arrange (by agreement with the BBA if possible) that everyone was offered a unique bank account number which they could transfer between banks? This seems the sort of thing that the market can't easily do by itself, but it doesn't interfere with anyone's freedom or privacy. People who didn't want it could just carry on with their current number. There would be transitional costs, but is there otherwise a serious snag?

    It would impose horrendous system development costs on the banks and take years to implement.

    It would be easier to encourage practices associated with the continental giro system wherein invoices issued by suppliers state a bank account number which can then be used for electronic remittance. Essentially a beefing up of BACS and its integration with the European giro payment systems.

  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited April 2014



    I prefer the form:

    #include <stdio.h> int main() { char buffer[100]; /* sprintf? */ snprintf (buffer. sizeof(buffer), "Singback, Crossover" ); while (true) { puts(buffer); } }

    I'm too pissed to bother if someone has corrected this already, but....

    The signature is 'int' and yet there is no return value. Whilst possibly legal in K&R this would not pass an ANSI compiler quietly! Where is your return(0);...?

    It's almost as funny as a PBSterlingEunuch discussing to whom the Bank-of-England will offer access to the funds and resources of a sovereign "rUK" [sic]...!
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited April 2014
    The entry of judgments and verdicts of acquittal on every count of the indictment in R v Evans MP earlier comes as no surprise. It is yet another inculpation of the way in which the Crown now approaches sex offences. It is, of course, true that whether an offence has been committed or not does not depend on whether the alleged victim complains to the police, or even believes that an offence has occurred. Nevertheless, when numerous complainants all testify that no criminal activity occurred, and that they did not consider themselves victims, it cannot be in the public interest to proceed on those allegations. This is compounded when the alleged offences are over a decade old. A cynic would be minded to conclude that the Crown deliberately preferred a large number of counts against Evans for the purposes of prejudicing the jury on the most serious counts. The whole issue of cross admissibility is going to have to be broached at some point, and one wonders whether King J should have severed some of the counts on the indictment.

    What cases like R v Evans MP emphasise is that any proposal to change the law for the benefit of "victims" or "witnesses", especially in sex cases, ought to be met with the utmost suspicion.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    ... telling everyone who sends payments for translation about the new account would still be too much of a pain.

    Why? it's just a question of emailing 14 digits to people you must have lists of anyway. Less of a pain than the changes you propose, and you have a safety net if you keep the old account open with 50 quid in it in case the message doesn't get through.

    I think Paypal also does what you want, linking payments to your email address.



  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    AveryLP said:

    Idle thought for the bankers here O/T: I've been considering changing bank accounts, and appreciate it's easier than it used to be, but telling everyone who sends payments for translation about the new account would still be too much of a pain. If we accept that consumer ease in changing is good for competition, might the government reasonably arrange (by agreement with the BBA if possible) that everyone was offered a unique bank account number which they could transfer between banks? This seems the sort of thing that the market can't easily do by itself, but it doesn't interfere with anyone's freedom or privacy. People who didn't want it could just carry on with their current number. There would be transitional costs, but is there otherwise a serious snag?

    It would impose horrendous system development costs on the banks and take years to implement.

    It would be easier to encourage practices associated with the continental giro system wherein invoices issued by suppliers state a bank account number which can then be used for electronic remittance. Essentially a beefing up of BACS and its integration with the European giro payment systems.

    You sort of skip over the key drawback in Nick's proposal, bankers are incompetent and would screw the whole thing up.
  • Fat_SteveFat_Steve Posts: 361

    Can I just say that Kevan Jones and Rob Flello should hang their heads in shame over their twitter comments about Sajid Javid. Particularly as Flello - who was complaining about Javid not *earning* the money he earned in his work as a banker - used to work for Price Waterhouse and Arthur Anderson.

    The words 'pot' and 'kettle' come to mind.

    Labour: the real nasty party.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100267269/labour-fears-sajid-javid-because-hes-everything-its-not-working-class-non-white-successful/

    There is something ugly and very revealing about the petulance with which they - and many on the left - contemplate the cheek of a man who was born poor and is brown-skinned, yet dares to form opinions of his own, and rejects the patronage of Jones and Flello.
    How can he possibly know what's good for him?


  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Barnes said:

    BobaFett said:

    Good post on UKPR from Peter Crawford - deserves a repost

    This ipsos mori poll isn’t great for the blues…it takes you back to the pre-budget labour leads except that ukip is now riding high…
    one of the great things about this fantastic site is the historical polls anthony has…
    I did a very simple thing and took an average of all the polls in the 13 months from Dec 1 1990 to April 1992…the results were interesting. Thatcher was toppled in November 1990.
    The average of all the polls was: Con 39.7% Lab 40.4% LD 15.0%
    The tories got a good initial bounce after ditching maggie, but the polls were essentially neck and neck for about 15 months…
    The blues were simply performing better in the polls at the equivalent stage of the 1987-1992 parliament.
    Indeed for March 1991, roughly where we are now at the equivalent state of that parliament, the averages of all the polls in that month were:
    Con 41.0% Lab 38.4% and LD 15.2%
    Indeed, in the 13 polls taken that month, the tories were ahead in 8, labour in 4 and equal in 1.
    Of course, none of this proves anything… it is mainly of historical interest. It just shows that picture the polls presented at this stage was much more in the balance and much tighter than the equivalents today…
    Obviously a lot can change etc….

    It's a complete myth that Governments always recover as the election nears. Or "swingback" as the PB Tory faithful call it.

    Sometimes Governments recover. Sometimes oppositions improve. Sometimes not much happens. Which is what you'd expect in politics with so much in play.

    Run your mathematical simulations a billion times, it will still be claptrap. The idea that there's some sort of predictable science behind voter decisions is for the birds.

    Run your mathematical simulations a billion times, it will still be claptrap. The idea that there's some sort of predictable science behind voter decisions is for the birds.


    Well there goes Ed's 35% theory, good post sir.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    You have been warned: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101573688

    Marc Faber says the stock market is setting up for a decline more painful than the sudden crash of 1987.

    "I think it's very likely that we're seeing, in the next 12 months, an '87-type of crash," Faber said with a devious chuckle on Thursday's episode of "Futures Now." "And I suspect it will be even worse."

    Faber, the editor and publisher of the Gloom, Boom & Doom Report, has recently called for growth stocks to decline. And he says the pain in the Internet and biotech sectors is just getting started.

    "I think there are some groups of stocks that are highly vulnerable because they're in cuckoo land in terms of valuations," Faber said. "They have no earnings. They're valued at price-to-sales. And this is not a good metric in the long run."

    But it's not just momentum stocks that Faber is wary of. He says that investors are coming to a stark realization.

    "I believe that the market is slowly waking up to the fact that the Federal Reserve is a clueless organization," Faber said. "They have no idea what they're doing. And so the confidence level of investors is diminishing, in my view."
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    There was an interesting segment on Channel 4 news with a focus group of former Lib Dem voters.

    Bottom line seemed to be none of them would vote Tory, they all profess to be 8-10 out of 10 certain to vote Labour, but when probed further they were apprehensive about the Eds and were keen for alternative to vote for such as the greens. Certainly not convincing that they would all stay in the Labour column.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Dyslexia is to blame, don't worry Ms Leslie, we'll be charging her too.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26971137

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    Idle thought for the bankers here O/T: I've been considering changing bank accounts, and appreciate it's easier than it used to be, but telling everyone who sends payments for translation about the new account would still be too much of a pain. If we accept that consumer ease in changing is good for competition, might the government reasonably arrange (by agreement with the BBA if possible) that everyone was offered a unique bank account number which they could transfer between banks? This seems the sort of thing that the market can't easily do by itself, but it doesn't interfere with anyone's freedom or privacy. People who didn't want it could just carry on with their current number. There would be transitional costs, but is there otherwise a serious snag?

    It would impose horrendous system development costs on the banks and take years to implement.

    It would be easier to encourage practices associated with the continental giro system wherein invoices issued by suppliers state a bank account number which can then be used for electronic remittance. Essentially a beefing up of BACS and its integration with the European giro payment systems.

    You sort of skip over the key drawback in Nick's proposal, bankers are incompetent and would screw the whole thing up.
    "Screwing things up" sounds like an activity carried out in a West Midlands factory, Mr. Brooke.

    Never known it to happen in the City, where activities are altogether more cerebral.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    Idle thought for the bankers here O/T: I've been considering changing bank accounts, and appreciate it's easier than it used to be, but telling everyone who sends payments for translation about the new account would still be too much of a pain. If we accept that consumer ease in changing is good for competition, might the government reasonably arrange (by agreement with the BBA if possible) that everyone was offered a unique bank account number which they could transfer between banks? This seems the sort of thing that the market can't easily do by itself, but it doesn't interfere with anyone's freedom or privacy. People who didn't want it could just carry on with their current number. There would be transitional costs, but is there otherwise a serious snag?

    It would impose horrendous system development costs on the banks and take years to implement.

    It would be easier to encourage practices associated with the continental giro system wherein invoices issued by suppliers state a bank account number which can then be used for electronic remittance. Essentially a beefing up of BACS and its integration with the European giro payment systems.

    You sort of skip over the key drawback in Nick's proposal, bankers are incompetent and would screw the whole thing up.
    "Screwing things up" sounds like an activity carried out in a West Midlands factory, Mr. Brooke.

    Never known it to happen in the City, where activities are altogether more cerebral.
    Putting a screw in a component is called "tapping".

    In London of course tapping is what our useless finance sector does to us taxpayers.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    US stocks falling through the floor at the moment.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    MikeK said:

    US stocks falling through the floor at the moment.

    how long until Osborne says it started in America ?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Idle thought for the bankers here O/T: I've been considering changing bank accounts, and appreciate it's easier than it used to be, but telling everyone who sends payments for translation about the new account would still be too much of a pain. If we accept that consumer ease in changing is good for competition, might the government reasonably arrange (by agreement with the BBA if possible) that everyone was offered a unique bank account number which they could transfer between banks? This seems the sort of thing that the market can't easily do by itself, but it doesn't interfere with anyone's freedom or privacy. People who didn't want it could just carry on with their current number. There would be transitional costs, but is there otherwise a serious snag?

    Implementation would be an issue
    People with more than one bank account
    Business bank accounts - how many businesses?
    Savings accounts/isas
    Data protection, access to personal data when no longer required for business purposes and associated costs
    Fraud, requires a new bank account number
    Would require a centralised banking system to generate numbers to avoid double bubbling
    You'd need to inform all payers of new sort code anyway

    Off the top of my head
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Barnes said:

    BobaFett said:

    Good post on UKPR from Peter Crawford - deserves a repost

    This ipsos mori poll isn’t great for the blues…it takes you back to the pre-budget labour leads except that ukip is now riding high…
    one of the great things about this fantastic site is the historical polls anthony has…
    I did a very simple thing and took an average of all the polls in the 13 months from Dec 1 1990 to April 1992…the results were interesting. Thatcher was toppled in November 1990.
    The average of all the polls was: Con 39.7% Lab 40.4% LD 15.0%
    The tories got a good initial bounce after ditching maggie, but the polls were essentially neck and neck for about 15 months…
    The blues were simply performing better in the polls at the equivalent stage of the 1987-1992 parliament.
    Indeed for March 1991, roughly where we are now at the equivalent state of that parliament, the averages of all the polls in that month were:
    Con 41.0% Lab 38.4% and LD 15.2%
    Indeed, in the 13 polls taken that month, the tories were ahead in 8, labour in 4 and equal in 1.
    Of course, none of this proves anything… it is mainly of historical interest. It just shows that picture the polls presented at this stage was much more in the balance and much tighter than the equivalents today…
    Obviously a lot can change etc….

    It's a complete myth that Governments always recover as the election nears. Or "swingback" as the PB Tory faithful call it.

    Sometimes Governments recover. Sometimes oppositions improve. Sometimes not much happens. Which is what you'd expect in politics with so much in play.

    Run your mathematical simulations a billion times, it will still be claptrap. The idea that there's some sort of predictable science behind voter decisions is for the birds.

    I even read somewhere of a swing out effect that happens in the final 4-6 weeks - that the Opposition tends to gain then. Perhaps nobody has a Scooby.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Barnes said:

    BobaFett said:

    Good post on UKPR from Peter Crawford - deserves a repost

    This ipsos mori poll isn’t great for the blues…it takes you back to the pre-budget labour leads except that ukip is now riding high…
    one of the great things about this fantastic site is the historical polls anthony has…
    I did a very simple thing and took an average of all the polls in the 13 months from Dec 1 1990 to April 1992…the results were interesting. Thatcher was toppled in November 1990.
    The average of all the polls was: Con 39.7% Lab 40.4% LD 15.0%
    The tories got a good initial bounce after ditching maggie, but the polls were essentially neck and neck for about 15 months…
    The blues were simply performing better in the polls at the equivalent stage of the 1987-1992 parliament.
    Indeed for March 1991, roughly where we are now at the equivalent state of that parliament, the averages of all the polls in that month were:
    Con 41.0% Lab 38.4% and LD 15.2%
    Indeed, in the 13 polls taken that month, the tories were ahead in 8, labour in 4 and equal in 1.
    Of course, none of this proves anything… it is mainly of historical interest. It just shows that picture the polls presented at this stage was much more in the balance and much tighter than the equivalents today…
    Obviously a lot can change etc….



    Run your mathematical simulations a billion times, it will still be claptrap. The idea that there's some sort of predictable science behind voter decisions is for the birds.
    There goes psephology, then, and that's Ralling and Thrasher out of jobs. And this site shut down.

    You must distinguish between things which are too difficult for you to understand, and things which are claptrap.

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Fat_Steve said:

    Can I just say that Kevan Jones and Rob Flello should hang their heads in shame over their twitter comments about Sajid Javid. Particularly as Flello - who was complaining about Javid not *earning* the money he earned in his work as a banker - used to work for Price Waterhouse and Arthur Anderson.

    The words 'pot' and 'kettle' come to mind.

    Labour: the real nasty party.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100267269/labour-fears-sajid-javid-because-hes-everything-its-not-working-class-non-white-successful/

    There is something ugly and very revealing about the petulance with which they - and many on the left - contemplate the cheek of a man who was born poor and is brown-skinned, yet dares to form opinions of his own, and rejects the patronage of Jones and Flello.
    How can he possibly know what's good for him?


    Rubbish. It has nothing to do with his race. Stupid post.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    Idle thought for the bankers here O/T: I've been considering changing bank accounts, and appreciate it's easier than it used to be, but telling everyone who sends payments for translation about the new account would still be too much of a pain. If we accept that consumer ease in changing is good for competition, might the government reasonably arrange (by agreement with the BBA if possible) that everyone was offered a unique bank account number which they could transfer between banks? This seems the sort of thing that the market can't easily do by itself, but it doesn't interfere with anyone's freedom or privacy. People who didn't want it could just carry on with their current number. There would be transitional costs, but is there otherwise a serious snag?

    Sounds like a fantastic idea, if deliverable. As you say, there is currently a massive disincentive to flip bank accounts because the time cost of administrating the change usually massively outweighs any benefit. Same reason I don't change power suppliers any more - every single time in the past when I have gone for it I have ended up spending my own time sorting out their mess.
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    Millsy said:

    There was an interesting segment on Channel 4 news with a focus group of former Lib Dem voters.

    Bottom line seemed to be none of them would vote Tory, they all profess to be 8-10 out of 10 certain to vote Labour, but when probed further they were apprehensive about the Eds and were keen for alternative to vote for such as the greens. Certainly not convincing that they would all stay in the Labour column.

    I do wonder sometimes why therer is such an anti Tory sentiment. I must be naive. Under this Tory led government the country is in such a better place than it was in 2010, yet they get no credit.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    Idle thought for the bankers here O/T: I've been considering changing bank accounts, and appreciate it's easier than it used to be, but telling everyone who sends payments for translation about the new account would still be too much of a pain. If we accept that consumer ease in changing is good for competition, might the government reasonably arrange (by agreement with the BBA if possible) that everyone was offered a unique bank account number which they could transfer between banks? This seems the sort of thing that the market can't easily do by itself, but it doesn't interfere with anyone's freedom or privacy. People who didn't want it could just carry on with their current number. There would be transitional costs, but is there otherwise a serious snag?

    It would impose horrendous system development costs on the banks and take years to implement.

    It would be easier to encourage practices associated with the continental giro system wherein invoices issued by suppliers state a bank account number which can then be used for electronic remittance. Essentially a beefing up of BACS and its integration with the European giro payment systems.

    You sort of skip over the key drawback in Nick's proposal, bankers are incompetent and would screw the whole thing up.
    "Screwing things up" sounds like an activity carried out in a West Midlands factory, Mr. Brooke.

    Never known it to happen in the City, where activities are altogether more cerebral.
    Putting a screw in a component is called "tapping".

    So what's "tupping" then, Mr. Brooke?

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    Idle thought for the bankers here O/T: I've been considering changing bank accounts, and appreciate it's easier than it used to be, but telling everyone who sends payments for translation about the new account would still be too much of a pain. If we accept that consumer ease in changing is good for competition, might the government reasonably arrange (by agreement with the BBA if possible) that everyone was offered a unique bank account number which they could transfer between banks? This seems the sort of thing that the market can't easily do by itself, but it doesn't interfere with anyone's freedom or privacy. People who didn't want it could just carry on with their current number. There would be transitional costs, but is there otherwise a serious snag?

    It would impose horrendous system development costs on the banks and take years to implement.

    It would be easier to encourage practices associated with the continental giro system wherein invoices issued by suppliers state a bank account number which can then be used for electronic remittance. Essentially a beefing up of BACS and its integration with the European giro payment systems.

    You sort of skip over the key drawback in Nick's proposal, bankers are incompetent and would screw the whole thing up.
    "Screwing things up" sounds like an activity carried out in a West Midlands factory, Mr. Brooke.

    Never known it to happen in the City, where activities are altogether more cerebral.
    Putting a screw in a component is called "tapping".

    So what's "tupping" then, Mr. Brooke?

    It what bankers do to each other when they need a favour fiddling Libor rates.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    edited April 2014
    currystar said:

    Millsy said:

    There was an interesting segment on Channel 4 news with a focus group of former Lib Dem voters.

    Bottom line seemed to be none of them would vote Tory, they all profess to be 8-10 out of 10 certain to vote Labour, but when probed further they were apprehensive about the Eds and were keen for alternative to vote for such as the greens. Certainly not convincing that they would all stay in the Labour column.

    I do wonder sometimes why therer is such an anti Tory sentiment. I must be naive. Under this Tory led government the country is in such a better place than it was in 2010, yet they get no credit.
    Of course they do, the BofE has given them £180billion of credit via QE.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Floooooooooooooower Scooootland lalalallaaaaa
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    There must be some by-elections tonight?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    MikeK said:

    US stocks falling through the floor at the moment.

    Don't worry, Mike.

    George is on a flight to Washington as we speak.

    All will be solved tomorrow.

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Ishmael_X said:

    Barnes said:

    BobaFett said:

    Good post on UKPR from Peter Crawford - deserves a repost

    This ipsos mori poll isn’t great for the blues…it takes you back to the pre-budget labour leads except that ukip is now riding high…
    one of the great things about this fantastic site is the historical polls anthony has…
    I did a very simple thing and took an average of all the polls in the 13 months from Dec 1 1990 to April 1992…the results were interesting. Thatcher was toppled in November 1990.
    The average of all the polls was: Con 39.7% Lab 40.4% LD 15.0%
    The tories got a good initial bounce after ditching maggie, but the polls were essentially neck and neck for about 15 months…
    The blues were simply performing better in the polls at the equivalent stage of the 1987-1992 parliament.
    Indeed for March 1991, roughly where we are now at the equivalent state of that parliament, the averages of all the polls in that month were:
    Con 41.0% Lab 38.4% and LD 15.2%
    Indeed, in the 13 polls taken that month, the tories were ahead in 8, labour in 4 and equal in 1.
    Of course, none of this proves anything… it is mainly of historical interest. It just shows that picture the polls presented at this stage was much more in the balance and much tighter than the equivalents today…
    Obviously a lot can change etc….



    Run your mathematical simulations a billion times, it will still be claptrap. The idea that there's some sort of predictable science behind voter decisions is for the birds.
    There goes psephology, then, and that's Ralling and Thrasher out of jobs. And this site shut down.

    You must distinguish between things which are too difficult for you to understand, and things which are claptrap.

    There's a difference between analysing voting behaviour and forecasting it

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    AveryLP said:

    MikeK said:

    US stocks falling through the floor at the moment.

    Don't worry, Mike.

    George is on a flight to Washington as we speak.

    All will be solved tomorrow.

    I think you'll find that's Tyne and Wear, is his next car a Nissan ?
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Dow looking none to hearty over in NY.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098



    It what bankers do to each other when they need a favour fiddling Libor rates.

    You seem very grumpy tonight, Mr. Brooke. Is there a particular reason for this?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    AveryLP said:

    Was out for the Evans verdict.



    The Police have most to answer for, but even here I can understand how the investigations led to flawed evidence. In a post Savile world, it is vital that the police protect the vulnerable from the predations of the rich and powerful. The Police appear to have instituted a "victim focus" policy to help them overcome biases in the criminal system and wider society which prevent the reporting and prosecution of genuine abuse. Reluctant witnesses, fearful or reticent 'victims' and personal rather legal interpretations of evidence are rightly seen as barriers to justice which need to be 'broken down' during investigation. Is a rape or sexual assault not an offence because the 'victim' doesn't regard it as such, or, is it dependent on objective evaluation of the actions of the parties?

    In the Evans case, it appears that the 'victim focus' policy of the police investigators led to statements being made reluctantly, or even under 'protest', which later did not stand up under cross-examination in court. Getting the right balance of 'victim focus' and 'open-minded investigation' must be extraordinarily difficult for the police, especially when the allegations involve the most powerful and protected in the land. It is clear from the verdict in the Evans case that this balance wasn't right but I would be reluctant to blame the police given the clear need to change their policy from that of the pre-Savile era.

    It is difficult too to blame the CPS. They were not to know that the statements filed would be contradicted in court. Had this not happened then the verdict may well have been very different. And there is a clear public interest in prosecuting the high and mighty where proper evaluation of the evidence warrants.

    So tough though it undoubtedly has been on Nigel Evans, this was probably a trial which was justifiable and necessary. As Evans himself said there are "no winners", but there probably were no mistakes either.

    I look forward to Nigel Evans being cheered back to his seat in the HoCs and hope he continues as an MP beyond the next election, subject of course to continued constituency support which looks likely.

    This was a unfortunate case, but we may be all be better protected for it having been brought to court.

    There is a difference - an important one - between not listening to people who make complaints of assault (the Savile example) and trying to "break down" people who make no such complaints in order to make a criminal charge against someone. The latter is wrong. People should not be bullied or forced into making allegations or giving evidence. If this is what the police were doing, that raises serious questions about their conduct.

  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    BobaFett said:

    Dow looking none to hearty over in NY.

    BobaFett said:

    Dow looking none to hearty over in NY.

    Crash is looming.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    MikeK said:

    US stocks falling through the floor at the moment.

    Don't worry, Mike.

    George is on a flight to Washington as we speak.

    All will be solved tomorrow.

    I think you'll find that's Tyne and Wear, is his next car a Nissan ?
    Victim of his own success, Mr. Brooke.

    There is a five year waiting list for Qashqais

    He'll just have to keep his Range Rover a little longer. Easy to park too.

  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    BobaFett said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Barnes said:

    BobaFett said:

    Good post on UKPR from Peter Crawford - deserves a repost

    This ipsos mori poll isn’t great for the blues…it takes you back to the pre-budget labour leads except that ukip is now riding high…
    one of the great things about this fantastic site is the historical polls anthony has…
    I did a very simple thing and took an average of all the polls in the 13 months from Dec 1 1990 to April 1992…the results were interesting. Thatcher was toppled in November 1990.
    The average of all the polls was: Con 39.7% Lab 40.4% LD 15.0%
    The tories got a good initial bounce after ditching maggie, but the polls were essentially neck and neck for about 15 months…
    The blues were simply performing better in the polls at the equivalent stage of the 1987-1992 parliament.
    Indeed for March 1991, roughly where we are now at the equivalent state of that parliament, the averages of all the polls in that month were:
    Con 41.0% Lab 38.4% and LD 15.2%
    Indeed, in the 13 polls taken that month, the tories were ahead in 8, labour in 4 and equal in 1.
    Of course, none of this proves anything… it is mainly of historical interest. It just shows that picture the polls presented at this stage was much more in the balance and much tighter than the equivalents today…
    Obviously a lot can change etc….



    Run your mathematical simulations a billion times, it will still be claptrap. The idea that there's some sort of predictable science behind voter decisions is for the birds.
    There goes psephology, then, and that's Ralling and Thrasher out of jobs. And this site shut down.

    You must distinguish between things which are too difficult for you to understand, and things which are claptrap.

    There's a difference between analysing voting behaviour and forecasting it

    And both are subsumed under "psephology" and Colin Rallings' research interests:

    "* Election Forecasting *
    Models are developed in order to forecast the outcome of elections. One model, which uses local government by-election results, has been tried and tested for a number of years. It correctly forecast the vote shares for the three main parties at the 1997 general election. Other models are now under development. These include an approach which utilises a neural network that processes the responses to a series of questions about past elections and uses that information to forecast future election results."

    Rallings will be relieved to know that in the view of Barnes of PB he is only wasting some of his time.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    AveryLP said:

    MikeK said:

    US stocks falling through the floor at the moment.

    Don't worry, Mike.

    George is on a flight to Washington as we speak.

    All will be solved tomorrow.

    OMG! Expect the worst then.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514



    It what bankers do to each other when they need a favour fiddling Libor rates.

    You seem very grumpy tonight, Mr. Brooke. Is there a particular reason for this?
    Not at all Mr L. I've had a good day consisting of an old-fashioned liquid lunch and I managed to get funds flowing from the bank.

    tonight is more about Pole fishing, but I just can't get the big guppy to bite. He's playing as coy as a salmond in a luxury hotel.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    Has EdM mentioned this exciting development for his constituents:

    http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/business/bucharest-is-latest-destination-from-doncaster-s-robin-hood-airport-1-6526096

    Despite some heroic attempts in the article to big up the tourist potential of Bucharest I suspect that the users of the new service are more likely to be Romanians than Yorkshire folk.

    Still revealing that new flight locations can be set up when the demand is there.

    Clearly there's more demand to fly between Romania and Doncaster than between China and Doncaster or for that matter China and Gatwick, Birmingham, Manchester etc, etc, etc.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    AveryLP said:

    The Police have most to answer for, but even here I can understand how the investigations led to flawed evidence. In a post Savile world, it is vital that the police protect the vulnerable from the predations of the rich and powerful.

    Pre-Savile too. Defend the children of the poor and punish the wrongdoer.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    MikeK said:

    US stocks falling through the floor at the moment.

    Don't worry, Mike.

    George is on a flight to Washington as we speak.

    All will be solved tomorrow.

    I think you'll find that's Tyne and Wear, is his next car a Nissan ?
    Victim of his own success, Mr. Brooke.

    There is a five year waiting list for Qashqais

    He'll just have to keep his Range Rover a little longer. Easy to park too.

    So a five year wait for a Qashqai and a five year fixed term Parlt ? looks like George plans to pick up the keys in 2015. I suppose he won't have much else to do.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    These Right Wingers are racialists.

    'Racist' swan accused of attacking foreign students at university campus http://t.co/saAJ3THdVH (Newsteam) pic.twitter.com/715DB7motd

    — Telegraph News (@TelegraphNews) April 10, 2014

    Not a joke, and sad to see what this once free country has become.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903

    BobaFett said:

    Dow looking none to hearty over in NY.

    BobaFett said:

    Dow looking none to hearty over in NY.

    Crash is looming.
    "too"

    Incidentally any comment whatsoever on the short term health of the dow or ftse will be out of date by the time anyone reads it.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Cyclefree said:

    AveryLP said:

    Was out for the Evans verdict.

    ...

    There is a difference - an important one - between not listening to people who make complaints of assault (the Savile example) and trying to "break down" people who make no such complaints in order to make a criminal charge against someone. The latter is wrong. People should not be bullied or forced into making allegations or giving evidence. If this is what the police were doing, that raises serious questions about their conduct.

    Cyclefree

    Agreed, but we don't yet have sufficient information on how the police obtained the original statements to make a judgement.

    What is known is that the material details of the statements obtained were later contradicted in court.

    My impression though is that the police may have erred on the side of "breaking down" barriers when taking the original statements. Understandable in the general circumstances and no doubt an area of policy which needs further consideration. It is clear though that some, if not all, of the witnesses did report incidents to the police and the investigation moved on properly from this starting point.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    NEW THREAD
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Oh dear
    #CameronJesus is trending on twitter.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098



    It what bankers do to each other when they need a favour fiddling Libor rates.

    You seem very grumpy tonight, Mr. Brooke. Is there a particular reason for this?
    Not at all Mr L. I've had a good day consisting of an old-fashioned liquid lunch and I managed to get funds flowing from the bank.

    tonight is more about Pole fishing, but I just can't get the big guppy to bite. He's playing as coy as a salmond in a luxury hotel.
    Fair enough, Mr. B.. I am pleased to hear that you had a proper luncheon, so few people do these days. I blame the Americans, oh, and the Calvinists.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514



    It what bankers do to each other when they need a favour fiddling Libor rates.

    You seem very grumpy tonight, Mr. Brooke. Is there a particular reason for this?
    Not at all Mr L. I've had a good day consisting of an old-fashioned liquid lunch and I managed to get funds flowing from the bank.

    tonight is more about Pole fishing, but I just can't get the big guppy to bite. He's playing as coy as a salmond in a luxury hotel.
    Fair enough, Mr. B.. I am pleased to hear that you had a proper luncheon, so few people do these days. I blame the Americans, oh, and the Calvinists.
    Lol. I'm pretty sure Mr G of this parish might disagree.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited April 2014
    Basil just found out Labour still 6 percent in front in tonights Yougov - 38/32 .......wonder what we can post about tonight instead of polls?

    http://donauschwaben-usa.org/mad_squirrel.jpg
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Don't worry Hodges, just checked the details of tonights Yougov poll and in the subsection of males born on the Isle of Dogs in a barn who iron their clothes on a Wednesday the Tories lead Labour by 50%, so the headlines figure can be ignored.....Tory huge majority nailed on!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    United Kingdom Trends ·

    #BeautyIs Promoted
    #NationalSiblingsDay
    Valencia
    #DontCapMyBenefits
    The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas
    #ThingsAsianBoysDo
    #LiesToldByFemales
    #CameronJesus
    Paco Alcacer
    John Newman
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