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Why I think Scotland will not vote for independence – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,767
edited November 3 in General
Why I think Scotland will not vote for independence – politicalbetting.com

? Kate Forbes warns SNP members they “must avoid” public discussions about currency proposals for an independent Scotland. Minutes from branch meeting suggest party leadership knows currency remains a major weakness, more than 10 years on from indyrefhttps://t.co/iFOteHstHD

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  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,740
    edited November 3
    First, and foremost challenge for the SNP - currency.

    So let's avoid talking about it. Right.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,180
    Second
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,740
    edited November 3
    FPT: Plasterers:
    Mortimer said:

    eek said:

    Battlebus said:

    Forget the rise of Reform. More interested in the cost of plastering if anyone has recent experience.

    Think we paid £500 for the kitchen and a hallway wall to be done back in August
    About £620 for a day's work in the new shop last year. Bargain tbh. It's just about the messiest trades job, and requires a fair bit of skill that cannot be easily shortcutted by technology.

    I'd want about £1500 for the same amount of effort!
    For our new build we're paying our excellent team of plasterers about £220 pd each.

    Bish-bosh, loadsa dosh?

    Bing-bong, those days are gone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULeDlxa3gyc

    PS, if anyone is looking for plasterers in the Dorset/Somerset/Wilts border area, PM me - these guys were seriously good. (Appreciate I have probably posted that on the wrong forum.)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,465

    Diesel cars cost more than the petrol equivalent. Therefore it is only worth buying a diesel if:

    - You do sufficient miles so that the fuel saving outweighs the additional purchase cost (taking resale value into account)
    - You don't mind killing kiddies with the particulate emissions

    Don't hyperventilate, Sandy!

    ULEZ means I hardly drive my evil, polluting diesel car!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,192

    Diesel cars cost more than the petrol equivalent. Therefore it is only worth buying a diesel if:

    - You do sufficient miles so that the fuel saving outweighs the additional purchase cost (taking resale value into account)
    - You don't mind killing kiddies with the particulate emissions

    Don't hyperventilate, Sandy!

    ULEZ means I hardly drive my evil, polluting diesel car!
    ULEZ means I sold my evil diesel car and bought a compliant and hopefully less evil diesel car.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,740
    For those who jumped on the 'doesn't rule it out' Telegraph hype yesterday:

    “I don’t think airport-style scanners would be the way to go,” the transport secretary told Sky News. “I understand why you asked the question, and I understand why some of your viewers might be wondering about that.

    “We have thousands of railway stations across the UK, and those stations have multiple entrances, multiple platforms. What we can’t do is make life impossible for everyone, but we do need to take sensible and proportionate steps to make the public transport network safe.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/nov/03/metal-detectors-train-stations-transport-cambridgeshire-stabbings

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,826
    It would be the equivalent of the "dollarisation" used in Ecudor for years, where it seems to have worked mostly by forcing financial discipline on governments. PB's darling of the moment in Argentina proposes the same. It also was the default in Ireland for many decades, only ending in 1979, with the Punt pegged to Sterling.

    In practice, I suspect that a temporary agreement with the UK government would be agreed. It would be in no ones interest to have a rancorous split.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,740

    Diesel cars cost more than the petrol equivalent. Therefore it is only worth buying a diesel if:

    - You do sufficient miles so that the fuel saving outweighs the additional purchase cost (taking resale value into account)
    - You don't mind killing kiddies with the particulate emissions

    Don't hyperventilate, Sandy!

    ULEZ means I hardly drive my evil, polluting diesel car!
    There's a plus then.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,997

    First, and foremost challenge for the SNP - currency.

    So let's avoid talking about it. Right.

    Doesn't make sense, does it. If London gives another emphatic No to currency sharing...... and why should they ...... then it would seem the SNP should open discussions with Brussels to join the euro immediately upon independence.
    There'll have to some complicated discussions about switching, though,
    And yes, I know that would mean an independent Scotland becoming part of the EU.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,740
    As an aside, why can I see who has liked what post on Vanilla but not on PB.com?
  • Setting up an independent Scottish pound, or unofficially using pound sterling, are the only two sane solutions. Both have downsides, but both are plausible.

    A formal currency union, as Salmond proposed, is bonkers and was never going to happen.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,740
    O/T

    No migrants have been recorded crossing the English Channel for 11 days, the longest gap so far this year, PA Media reports. PA says:

    The most recent date on which people arrived in the UK after making the journey by boat was 22 October, according to the latest Home Office data.

    Bad weather is likely to have played a role in stopping migrants from attempting to reach the English coast. Storm Benjamin brought heavy rain and strong winds to northern France and the Channel on 23 October, with further wet and blustery weather on subsequent days.

    The 11-day gap in arrivals from 23 October to 2 November beats this year’s previous longest gap, which was the 10 days from 27 August to 5 September.

    Channel crossings in 2025 are no longer running at record levels.

    The cumulative number of arrivals this year, 36,954, is 7% below the total at this point in 2022 (39,929).

    Some 45,774 migrants arrived in 2022 – the highest number in any calendar year since data on Channel crossings was first collected in 2018.

    This year’s total of 36,954 has already passed the number for the whole of 2024 (36,816) and 2023 (29,437).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,241
    Yes, a Scottish currency would be weak. On the other hand if Scotland was allowed an independence vote, Westminster and the UK government implemented it and then Edinburgh decided to join the EU and Euro then that wouldn't be really a vote for full independence anyway
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,980
    Forget the currency I cannot understand how any Scot could watch the shitshow of Brexit (a small part leaving a much bigger economic block, with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) and still think that leaving the UK (with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) would be a good thing...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,830

    For those who jumped on the 'doesn't rule it out' Telegraph hype yesterday:

    “I don’t think airport-style scanners would be the way to go,” the transport secretary told Sky News. “I understand why you asked the question, and I understand why some of your viewers might be wondering about that.

    “We have thousands of railway stations across the UK, and those stations have multiple entrances, multiple platforms. What we can’t do is make life impossible for everyone, but we do need to take sensible and proportionate steps to make the public transport network safe.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/nov/03/metal-detectors-train-stations-transport-cambridgeshire-stabbings

    It would be wildly impractical, would be unaffordable, and in the unlikely event it were ever to happen, would increase every single railway journey time (note that to reduce journey times by a comparable amount would cost many tens of billions, if it were even possible).

    An idea more stupid than almost anything else anyone has come up with this year.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,465

    Diesel cars cost more than the petrol equivalent. Therefore it is only worth buying a diesel if:

    - You do sufficient miles so that the fuel saving outweighs the additional purchase cost (taking resale value into account)
    - You don't mind killing kiddies with the particulate emissions

    Don't hyperventilate, Sandy!

    ULEZ means I hardly drive my evil, polluting diesel car!
    There's a plus then.
    My other car's the Lizzie Line :lol:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,740
    HYUFD said:

    Yes, a Scottish currency would be weak. On the other hand if Scotland was allowed an independence vote, Westminster and the UK government implemented it and then Edinburgh decided to join the EU and Euro then that wouldn't be really a vote for full independence anyway

    Keep banging that message HY, you might end up believing it yourself.

    How sad for those oppressed peoples in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, etc. etc. who have lost their independence.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,465

    Diesel cars cost more than the petrol equivalent. Therefore it is only worth buying a diesel if:

    - You do sufficient miles so that the fuel saving outweighs the additional purchase cost (taking resale value into account)
    - You don't mind killing kiddies with the particulate emissions

    Don't hyperventilate, Sandy!

    ULEZ means I hardly drive my evil, polluting diesel car!
    ULEZ means I sold my evil diesel car and bought a compliant and hopefully less evil diesel car.
    "Because you're not quite evil enough. Well, it's true. You're quasi-evil. You're semi-evil. You're the margarine of evil. You're the Diet Coke of evil. Just 1 calorie. Not evil enough."
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,749

    Forget the currency I cannot understand how any Scot could watch the shitshow of Brexit (a small part leaving a much bigger economic block, with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) and still think that leaving the UK (with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) would be a good thing...

    The Zoomers saw the bigots, xenophobes and closet racists win a vote for hating Brown people

    Now they want to win their own vote for hating English people
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,109

    For those who jumped on the 'doesn't rule it out' Telegraph hype yesterday:

    “I don’t think airport-style scanners would be the way to go,” the transport secretary told Sky News. “I understand why you asked the question, and I understand why some of your viewers might be wondering about that.

    “We have thousands of railway stations across the UK, and those stations have multiple entrances, multiple platforms. What we can’t do is make life impossible for everyone, but we do need to take sensible and proportionate steps to make the public transport network safe.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/nov/03/metal-detectors-train-stations-transport-cambridgeshire-stabbings

    Anyway, the proposal doesn't go anywhere near far enough to keep us all safe.

    What we really need is security guards at every street corner, not just using "airport-style scanners", but conducting thorough body searches in order to detect anything that could possibly be used as a weapon, or indeed anything that they don't like the look of.

    The only thing that worries me is how we prevent Muslim terrorists from infiltrating the body of security guards, and perhaps even murdering us while we are being searched.

    But I'm giving that minor problem serious thought.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,830
    .
    Foxy said:

    It would be the equivalent of the "dollarisation" used in Ecudor for years, where it seems to have worked mostly by forcing financial discipline on governments. PB's darling of the moment in Argentina proposes the same. It also was the default in Ireland for many decades, only ending in 1979, with the Punt pegged to Sterling.

    In practice, I suspect that a temporary agreement with the UK government would be agreed. It would be in no ones interest to have a rancorous split.

    Alternatively, they could just wait until the UK has to call in the IMF, and use the aftermath of that to call a referendum.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,192

    Forget the currency I cannot understand how any Scot could watch the shitshow of Brexit (a small part leaving a much bigger economic block, with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) and still think that leaving the UK (with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) would be a good thing...

    For Scotland the tragedy of Brexit is that it demonstrates why independence is needed while simultaneously making it far more costly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,830
    Chris said:


    For those who jumped on the 'doesn't rule it out' Telegraph hype yesterday:

    “I don’t think airport-style scanners would be the way to go,” the transport secretary told Sky News. “I understand why you asked the question, and I understand why some of your viewers might be wondering about that.

    “We have thousands of railway stations across the UK, and those stations have multiple entrances, multiple platforms. What we can’t do is make life impossible for everyone, but we do need to take sensible and proportionate steps to make the public transport network safe.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/nov/03/metal-detectors-train-stations-transport-cambridgeshire-stabbings

    Anyway, the proposal doesn't go anywhere near far enough to keep us all safe.

    What we really need is security guards at every street corner, not just using "airport-style scanners", but conducting thorough body searches in order to detect anything that could possibly be used as a weapon, or indeed anything that they don't like the look of.

    The only thing that worries me is how we prevent Muslim terrorists from infiltrating the body of security guards, and perhaps even murdering us while we are being searched.

    But I'm giving that minor problem serious thought.
    I'm pretty sure Palantir has a nascent pre-cog crime division in development.
    Who is going to notice one more government contract for them amongst all the others ?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,980

    Forget the currency I cannot understand how any Scot could watch the shitshow of Brexit (a small part leaving a much bigger economic block, with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) and still think that leaving the UK (with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) would be a good thing...

    For Scotland the tragedy of Brexit is that it demonstrates why independence is needed while simultaneously making it far more costly.
    Needed so that Scotland can rejoin the EU?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,830
    FINAL NYC EARLY VOTING PARTY BREAKDOWN:
    Democratic: 540,671 (73.8%)
    Other: 106,201 (14.5%)
    Republican: 85,994 (11.7%)

    https://x.com/ZacharyDonnini/status/1985346226569564449
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,744

    O/T

    No migrants have been recorded crossing the English Channel for 11 days, the longest gap so far this year, PA Media reports. PA says:

    The most recent date on which people arrived in the UK after making the journey by boat was 22 October, according to the latest Home Office data.

    Bad weather is likely to have played a role in stopping migrants from attempting to reach the English coast. Storm Benjamin brought heavy rain and strong winds to northern France and the Channel on 23 October, with further wet and blustery weather on subsequent days.

    The 11-day gap in arrivals from 23 October to 2 November beats this year’s previous longest gap, which was the 10 days from 27 August to 5 September.

    Channel crossings in 2025 are no longer running at record levels.

    The cumulative number of arrivals this year, 36,954, is 7% below the total at this point in 2022 (39,929).

    Some 45,774 migrants arrived in 2022 – the highest number in any calendar year since data on Channel crossings was first collected in 2018.

    This year’s total of 36,954 has already passed the number for the whole of 2024 (36,816) and 2023 (29,437).

    Perhaps just a change of policy - don't try to intercept them, resulting in asylum claims, just let them vanish into the black economy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,241
    Scott_xP said:

    Forget the currency I cannot understand how any Scot could watch the shitshow of Brexit (a small part leaving a much bigger economic block, with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) and still think that leaving the UK (with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) would be a good thing...

    The Zoomers saw the bigots, xenophobes and closet racists win a vote for hating Brown people

    Now they want to win their own vote for hating English people
    Ending free movement and having the same immigration controls for immigrants from all nations was hardly 'hating Brown people.'
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,744

    For those who jumped on the 'doesn't rule it out' Telegraph hype yesterday:

    “I don’t think airport-style scanners would be the way to go,” the transport secretary told Sky News. “I understand why you asked the question, and I understand why some of your viewers might be wondering about that.

    “We have thousands of railway stations across the UK, and those stations have multiple entrances, multiple platforms. What we can’t do is make life impossible for everyone, but we do need to take sensible and proportionate steps to make the public transport network safe.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/nov/03/metal-detectors-train-stations-transport-cambridgeshire-stabbings

    I would have given a slightly more robust answer.

    Scanners at Rannoch. FFS.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,241

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, a Scottish currency would be weak. On the other hand if Scotland was allowed an independence vote, Westminster and the UK government implemented it and then Edinburgh decided to join the EU and Euro then that wouldn't be really a vote for full independence anyway

    Keep banging that message HY, you might end up believing it yourself.

    How sad for those oppressed peoples in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, etc. etc. who have lost their independence.
    As Greece discovered, if they need a bailout it is Frankfurt and Brussels who will impose terms in terms of deep austerity and tax rises to maintain the stability of the Euro
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,890
    HYUFD said:

    Yes, a Scottish currency would be weak. On the other hand if Scotland was allowed an independence vote, Westminster and the UK government implemented it and then Edinburgh decided to join the EU and Euro then that wouldn't be really a vote for full independence anyway

    The original Union was all about access to markets - the English colonies in America. 'Independence' is better viewed as access to other markets by another form of Union. The decision will be whether the EU is a better long term bet than rUK. Probably not clear enough for the Independent curious.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,241
    Nigelb said:

    FINAL NYC EARLY VOTING PARTY BREAKDOWN:
    Democratic: 540,671 (73.8%)
    Other: 106,201 (14.5%)
    Republican: 85,994 (11.7%)

    https://x.com/ZacharyDonnini/status/1985346226569564449

    Doesn't tell us much given Mamdani is a Democrat and Cuomo an ex Democrat Independent
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,241
    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, a Scottish currency would be weak. On the other hand if Scotland was allowed an independence vote, Westminster and the UK government implemented it and then Edinburgh decided to join the EU and Euro then that wouldn't be really a vote for full independence anyway

    The original Union was all about access to markets - the English colonies in America. 'Independence' is better viewed as access to other markets by another form of Union. The decision will be whether the EU is a better long term bet than rUK. Probably not clear enough for the Independent curious.
    No it was because Scotland needed a bailout after the Darien Scheme failed
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,754
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Forget the currency I cannot understand how any Scot could watch the shitshow of Brexit (a small part leaving a much bigger economic block, with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) and still think that leaving the UK (with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) would be a good thing...

    The Zoomers saw the bigots, xenophobes and closet racists win a vote for hating Brown people

    Now they want to win their own vote for hating English people
    Ending free movement and having the same immigration controls for immigrants from all nations was hardly 'hating Brown people.'
    It wasn't, which is why lots of Leave voters are now pissed off and voting Reform, but it's what they thought they were voting on.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,501
    The Democratic Party campaign to stop Democratic candidates winning (wrt Mamdani's election tomorrow).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djzVYqZRdng (18mins)

    We forget how big a problem corruption may be in elections
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,192

    Forget the currency I cannot understand how any Scot could watch the shitshow of Brexit (a small part leaving a much bigger economic block, with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) and still think that leaving the UK (with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) would be a good thing...

    For Scotland the tragedy of Brexit is that it demonstrates why independence is needed while simultaneously making it far more costly.
    Needed so that Scotland can rejoin the EU?
    Needed so Scotland's fate isn't decided by the English and their psychodrama.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,192

    Diesel cars cost more than the petrol equivalent. Therefore it is only worth buying a diesel if:

    - You do sufficient miles so that the fuel saving outweighs the additional purchase cost (taking resale value into account)
    - You don't mind killing kiddies with the particulate emissions

    Don't hyperventilate, Sandy!

    ULEZ means I hardly drive my evil, polluting diesel car!
    ULEZ means I sold my evil diesel car and bought a compliant and hopefully less evil diesel car.
    "Because you're not quite evil enough. Well, it's true. You're quasi-evil. You're semi-evil. You're the margarine of evil. You're the Diet Coke of evil. Just 1 calorie. Not evil enough."
    I thought PB received wisdom was that margarine is as evil as you can get.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,109
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    FINAL NYC EARLY VOTING PARTY BREAKDOWN:
    Democratic: 540,671 (73.8%)
    Other: 106,201 (14.5%)
    Republican: 85,994 (11.7%)

    https://x.com/ZacharyDonnini/status/1985346226569564449

    Doesn't tell us much given Mamdani is a Democrat and Cuomo an ex Democrat Independent
    Yeah - if that 74% Democrat vote were equally split down the middle, the 12% Republican vote would only be just - er - 25 points behind them both.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,592

    Forget the currency I cannot understand how any Scot could watch the shitshow of Brexit (a small part leaving a much bigger economic block, with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) and still think that leaving the UK (with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) would be a good thing...

    That nice Mr Putin said much the same about Ukraine leaving the Soviet Union.

    States break up or reunify on a fairly regular basis.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,965
    viewcode said:

    The Democratic Party campaign to stop Democratic candidates winning (wrt Mamdani's election tomorrow).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djzVYqZRdng (18mins)

    We forget how big a problem corruption may be in elections

    As someone who lives 14 hours in a plane, and nine time zones, from New York, tomorrow’s election is going to be fascinating to watch from afar.

    If I lived in New York, I’d be a little more worried.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,241

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Forget the currency I cannot understand how any Scot could watch the shitshow of Brexit (a small part leaving a much bigger economic block, with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) and still think that leaving the UK (with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) would be a good thing...

    The Zoomers saw the bigots, xenophobes and closet racists win a vote for hating Brown people

    Now they want to win their own vote for hating English people
    Ending free movement and having the same immigration controls for immigrants from all nations was hardly 'hating Brown people.'
    It wasn't, which is why lots of Leave voters are now pissed off and voting Reform, but it's what they thought they were voting on.
    They got the end of free movement, which they wanted. They now vote Reform to reverse the Boriswave from non EU nations, though ironically tighter restrictions brought in by Sunak and Cleverly started to do that anyway
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,980

    Forget the currency I cannot understand how any Scot could watch the shitshow of Brexit (a small part leaving a much bigger economic block, with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) and still think that leaving the UK (with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) would be a good thing...

    For Scotland the tragedy of Brexit is that it demonstrates why independence is needed while simultaneously making it far more costly.
    Needed so that Scotland can rejoin the EU?
    Needed so Scotland's fate isn't decided by the English and their psychodrama.
    Quite, you can let the fully rational and not at all deluded SNP run things instead!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,857
    Foxy said:

    It would be the equivalent of the "dollarisation" used in Ecudor for years, where it seems to have worked mostly by forcing financial discipline on governments. PB's darling of the moment in Argentina proposes the same. It also was the default in Ireland for many decades, only ending in 1979, with the Punt pegged to Sterling.

    In practice, I suspect that a temporary agreement with the UK government would be agreed. It would be in no ones interest to have a rancorous split.

    €1 is equal to £IRE 0.787564

    Today £1=€1.141

    So, £1 = £IRE 0.8986

    The transition might well be difficult, but an independent Scotland could be an economic success, as the rump UK continues on its path of decline.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,830
    edited November 3
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    FINAL NYC EARLY VOTING PARTY BREAKDOWN:
    Democratic: 540,671 (73.8%)
    Other: 106,201 (14.5%)
    Republican: 85,994 (11.7%)

    https://x.com/ZacharyDonnini/status/1985346226569564449

    Doesn't tell us much given Mamdani is a Democrat and Cuomo an ex Democrat Independent
    Registered Democrats polled about 2:1 in favour of Mamdani over Cuomo, so it doesn't look bad for him.
    The electorate is (I think) mid 60%s Democratic.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,749
    @Reuters

    Tesla's sales plunged in October in a number of European countries including Spain, the Netherlands and Nordic markets in the latest sign that the US electric vehicle maker's struggles on the continent continue

    https://x.com/Reuters/status/1985390263578112113
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,830
    Johnson's stock answer to any awkward question.
    (I must have seen this response about fifty times over the last few months.)

    Raju: Last week, you were very critical of Biden, you said he didn’t even know who he was pardoning. On 60 minutes, Trump admitted not knowing he pardoned a crypto billionaire guilty of money laundering.

    Johnson: I don’t know anything about it.

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1985368340379156870
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,592
    Plastering. Now you mention it, a friend took a plastering course in order to DIY, suggesting it is possibly the easiest trade to learn.

    Famously, Paul Whitehouse and Charlie Higson were plasterers who worked on a house being shared by Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie, and who used to write for Harry Enfield's plasterer character, Loadsamoney.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,753
    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    The Democratic Party campaign to stop Democratic candidates winning (wrt Mamdani's election tomorrow).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djzVYqZRdng (18mins)

    We forget how big a problem corruption may be in elections

    As someone who lives 14 hours in a plane, and nine time zones, from New York, tomorrow’s election is going to be fascinating to watch from afar.

    If I lived in New York, I’d be a little more worried.
    If you look at the options - you have

    1) A left wing politician doing left wing things
    2) A turd who has Trump's endorsement.
    3) A vigilant.

    You can see why many people are voting for number 1...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,501
    edited November 3
    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    The Democratic Party campaign to stop Democratic candidates winning (wrt Mamdani's election tomorrow).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djzVYqZRdng (18mins)

    We forget how big a problem corruption may be in elections

    As someone who lives 14 hours in a plane, and nine time zones, from New York, tomorrow’s election is going to be fascinating to watch from afar.

    If I lived in New York, I’d be a little more worried.
    If my granny had wheels, she'd be a wagon... :)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,857

    Forget the currency I cannot understand how any Scot could watch the shitshow of Brexit (a small part leaving a much bigger economic block, with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) and still think that leaving the UK (with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) would be a good thing...

    For the same reason that lots of people who voted for Brexit don't regret doing so - such a vote is not about practicalities for many people.

    I'm kinda on the other side of the fence. My experience in Ireland shows me how a small part of the UK can break off, suffer for a while, and then become a success. You can also see that many European countries with a population of 5-10 million seem to do pretty well. Maybe it's a good size for democracy? But I wouldn't want Scotland to become independent because I don't want to see the end of Britain.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,256
    Quite a lot of countries use the US $ with no formal arrangements, don't they? Why not Scotland? It would please D Trump no end. Probably.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,501
    Re the header. Scotland can run a dual-currency solution. Everyday life is done in GBP. Private company, wages etc are paid in GBP. ScotGov income (taxes, fines etc) are paid in GBP. But ScotGov expenditure (wages, benefits etc) are paid in Punts. ScotGov can issue debt in Punts (NOT GBP!) and pay it back in Punts. Everybody happy.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,459
    edited November 3
    AnneJGP said:

    Quite a lot of countries use the US $ with no formal arrangements, don't they? Why not Scotland? It would please D Trump no end. Probably.

    Montenegro and Kosovo do the same with the Euro. And Bosnia in practice, as they have their own currency but it is pegged to the Euro
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,924

    AnneJGP said:

    Quite a lot of countries use the US $ with no formal arrangements, don't they? Why not Scotland? It would please D Trump no end. Probably.

    Montenegro and Kosovo do the same with the Euro. And Bosnia in practice, as they have their own currency but it is pegged to the Euro
    Yes they do but with the agreement of the EU in the case of Montenegro. We holidayed there and as part of a trip to the wonderful Lake Skardar the guide went through what happened at the end of the war and the high inflation they endured. Lovely place Montenegro. Apart from people smoking in restaurants.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,749
    viewcode said:

    Re the header. Scotland can run a dual-currency solution. Everyday life is done in GBP. Private company, wages etc are paid in GBP. ScotGov income (taxes, fines etc) are paid in GBP. But ScotGov expenditure (wages, benefits etc) are paid in Punts. ScotGov can issue debt in Punts (NOT GBP!) and pay it back in Punts. Everybody happy.

    I assume you are taking the piss, but on the offchance you are not i will ask the inevitable question

    If I get paid in punts, how do I buy my groceries in GBP?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Forget the currency I cannot understand how any Scot could watch the shitshow of Brexit (a small part leaving a much bigger economic block, with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) and still think that leaving the UK (with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) would be a good thing...

    The Zoomers saw the bigots, xenophobes and closet racists win a vote for hating Brown people

    Now they want to win their own vote for hating English people
    Ending free movement and having the same immigration controls for immigrants from all nations was hardly 'hating Brown people.'
    It wasn't, which is why lots of Leave voters are now pissed off and voting Reform, but it's what they thought they were voting on.
    They got the end of free movement, which they wanted. They now vote Reform to reverse the Boriswave from non EU nations, though ironically tighter restrictions brought in by Sunak and Cleverly started to do that anyway
    The restrictions brought in by Sunak has not reversed anything.

    This is like debt and deficit all over again.

    Reversing the Boriswave would require massive net emigration at close to a million a year.

    Lower net migration going forward is adding to the Boriswave, at a lower rate, not reversing anything.

    Just as cutting the deficit != cutting debt.

    Hopefully anyone proposing that gets nowhere power.
  • Of course Forbes doesn't want any discussion about it. The SNP answer to everything broken is Independence. Can't see an NHS dentist today? Take heart as your teeth rot, for one day we will have independence and then you can have a dentist.

    How will Scotland pay for that dentist you ask? UNIONIST!!!

    I look forward to seeing more doors slammed in SNP faces as the campaign gets going. They tried the INDEPENDENCE argument last year and got scunnered. And seemingly the strategy next year is the same. Marvellous stuff.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,459
    Scott_xP said:

    viewcode said:

    Re the header. Scotland can run a dual-currency solution. Everyday life is done in GBP. Private company, wages etc are paid in GBP. ScotGov income (taxes, fines etc) are paid in GBP. But ScotGov expenditure (wages, benefits etc) are paid in Punts. ScotGov can issue debt in Punts (NOT GBP!) and pay it back in Punts. Everybody happy.

    I assume you are taking the piss, but on the offchance you are not i will ask the inevitable question

    If I get paid in punts, how do I buy my groceries in GBP?
    Currency exchange, like when you go on holiday. Many countries manage to use two currencies simultaneously, eg Cambodia (USD and Riel) and Bosnia (KM and Euro)
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,924

    Plastering. Now you mention it, a friend took a plastering course in order to DIY, suggesting it is possibly the easiest trade to learn.

    Famously, Paul Whitehouse and Charlie Higson were plasterers who worked on a house being shared by Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie, and who used to write for Harry Enfield's plasterer character, Loadsamoney.

    Is that what caused Enfield and Whitehouse to start their collaboration ?

    ISTR his and Higsons first TV was Big Night Out.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,753

    AnneJGP said:

    Quite a lot of countries use the US $ with no formal arrangements, don't they? Why not Scotland? It would please D Trump no end. Probably.

    Montenegro and Kosovo do the same with the Euro. And Bosnia in practice, as they have their own currency but it is pegged to the Euro
    Both those countries will be running a Government where revenue and spending is roughly in equilibrium. That won't be the case in Scotland unless the Government rapidly cut a lot of spending...
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,459
    Taz said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Quite a lot of countries use the US $ with no formal arrangements, don't they? Why not Scotland? It would please D Trump no end. Probably.

    Montenegro and Kosovo do the same with the Euro. And Bosnia in practice, as they have their own currency but it is pegged to the Euro
    Yes they do but with the agreement of the EU in the case of Montenegro. We holidayed there and as part of a trip to the wonderful Lake Skardar the guide went through what happened at the end of the war and the high inflation they endured. Lovely place Montenegro. Apart from people smoking in restaurants.
    Yes the smoking in bars and restaurants was tedious. But I enjoyed it. Didn't realise it was so mountainous, the clue is in the name I suppose
  • eekeek Posts: 31,753

    Scott_xP said:

    viewcode said:

    Re the header. Scotland can run a dual-currency solution. Everyday life is done in GBP. Private company, wages etc are paid in GBP. ScotGov income (taxes, fines etc) are paid in GBP. But ScotGov expenditure (wages, benefits etc) are paid in Punts. ScotGov can issue debt in Punts (NOT GBP!) and pay it back in Punts. Everybody happy.

    I assume you are taking the piss, but on the offchance you are not i will ask the inevitable question

    If I get paid in punts, how do I buy my groceries in GBP?
    Currency exchange, like when you go on holiday. Many countries manage to use two currencies simultaneously, eg Cambodia (USD and Riel) and Bosnia (KM and Euro)
    Türkiye seems to be moving in that direction as well - anything tourist facing was pricing things in euros this year which wasn't the case last year..
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,192

    Forget the currency I cannot understand how any Scot could watch the shitshow of Brexit (a small part leaving a much bigger economic block, with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) and still think that leaving the UK (with all the issues around trade, borders, legacy of debt etc) would be a good thing...

    For Scotland the tragedy of Brexit is that it demonstrates why independence is needed while simultaneously making it far more costly.
    Needed so that Scotland can rejoin the EU?
    Needed so Scotland's fate isn't decided by the English and their psychodrama.
    Quite, you can let the fully rational and not at all deluded SNP run things instead!
    I don't especially like the SNP. They're chancers and they've not run the country well. But of course it is up to Scottish voters to decide who governs them. I'm a Scot by birth but I no longer live in Scotland so it's not my choice to make.
    If you believe as I do that Scotland is a nation then having a decision as fundamental as EU membership taken out of Scotland's hands - indeed allowing Scottish voters to vote on it and then forcing them out of the EU when they rejected it - demonstrates that the Union is incompatible with that idea of nationhood. Indeed, Brexit was an act of humiliation for Scots. It turned me from a unionist to a nationalist.
    Equally though it has made independence far harder, because Scotland trades more with England than with the EU so leaving the UK to join the EU would impose significant economic costs. It's a very unpleasant situation for Scotland.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,584
    Off topic: One election you should study if you want some clues on American politics: The Seattle mayoral race between Bruce Harrell and Katie Wilson:
    https://www.bruceforseattle.com/
    https://www.wilsonforseattle.com/

    I think it will show to what extent Democratic voters are willing to vote for someone who lives mostly in the real world (Harrell), instead of someone who doesn't (Wilson).

    Wilson came out ahead, narrowly, in the "top-two" primary in August -- which scared a lot of people with money, and since then Harrell has received enough contributions to put on an expensive TV campaign. (More expensive than you might guess, because the TV stations in this area broadcast to more than 4 million people, and Seattle's population is fewer than 800K. So only about 20 percent of those who see the ads can vote in the election.)

    Harrell and Wilson have interesting -- and contrasting -- biographies:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Harrell
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Wilson

    (Wiki does not say what is almost certainly true: Wilson's father was, judging by photographs, mixed race. as so many "blacks" in the US are.

    People in the UK may find the Oxford detail in Wiki of special interest:
    Wilson was raised in Binghamton, New York, by her parents, Anne Barrett Clark and David Sloan Wilson, both of whom are evolutionary biologists.[2][3] She graduated salutatorian[4] from Binghamton High School before studying physics and philosophy at Balliol College, Oxford.[3] She dropped out of Oxford six weeks before graduation and moved to Seattle in 2004.[5][6] She worked several jobs after moving, including working in boat repair, construction, and as an office assistant.
    I don't know enough about Oxford to know what to make of it, myself.)

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,256

    Scott_xP said:

    viewcode said:

    Re the header. Scotland can run a dual-currency solution. Everyday life is done in GBP. Private company, wages etc are paid in GBP. ScotGov income (taxes, fines etc) are paid in GBP. But ScotGov expenditure (wages, benefits etc) are paid in Punts. ScotGov can issue debt in Punts (NOT GBP!) and pay it back in Punts. Everybody happy.

    I assume you are taking the piss, but on the offchance you are not i will ask the inevitable question

    If I get paid in punts, how do I buy my groceries in GBP?
    Currency exchange, like when you go on holiday. Many countries manage to use two currencies simultaneously, eg Cambodia (USD and Riel) and Bosnia (KM and Euro)
    I get it - the purchasing power of your salary varies directly with the exchange rate. You're on a winner there for sure.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,924

    Taz said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Quite a lot of countries use the US $ with no formal arrangements, don't they? Why not Scotland? It would please D Trump no end. Probably.

    Montenegro and Kosovo do the same with the Euro. And Bosnia in practice, as they have their own currency but it is pegged to the Euro
    Yes they do but with the agreement of the EU in the case of Montenegro. We holidayed there and as part of a trip to the wonderful Lake Skardar the guide went through what happened at the end of the war and the high inflation they endured. Lovely place Montenegro. Apart from people smoking in restaurants.
    Yes the smoking in bars and restaurants was tedious. But I enjoyed it. Didn't realise it was so mountainous, the clue is in the name I suppose
    We were in Herceg Novi. Lovely place. Also had a day out in Kotor. The ‘bus ‘ we travelled on was literally a clapped out Transit van.

    Aside from Kotor and Lake Skardar we never really went anywhere other than Herceg Novi. Really want to go back. Maybe 2027.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,472
    Scott_xP said:

    viewcode said:

    Re the header. Scotland can run a dual-currency solution. Everyday life is done in GBP. Private company, wages etc are paid in GBP. ScotGov income (taxes, fines etc) are paid in GBP. But ScotGov expenditure (wages, benefits etc) are paid in Punts. ScotGov can issue debt in Punts (NOT GBP!) and pay it back in Punts. Everybody happy.

    I assume you are taking the piss, but on the offchance you are not i will ask the inevitable question

    If I get paid in punts, how do I buy my groceries in GBP?
    There was a time when the Irish Punt and Sterling were kept at parity. In Ireland you could use Sterling and Punts interchangeably, but in England, your Punts would be refused. Then Ireland joined the Euro.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,924
    kinabalu said:

    They can just follow the Brexit model. Vote for the principle then work out the practicalities afterwards. It's the only realistic way. Nobody is going to spend lots of time and effort negotiating exit arrangements until it's known there will be an exit. Of course in a perfect world it would happen the other way. Deal then vote on the deal. But that can't work in the real world. The politics wouldn't allow it. The incentives are not aligned with that.

    Ooh, do they then get a campaign for a ‘people’s vote’ to overturn the wrong decision ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,749
    Barnesian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    viewcode said:

    Re the header. Scotland can run a dual-currency solution. Everyday life is done in GBP. Private company, wages etc are paid in GBP. ScotGov income (taxes, fines etc) are paid in GBP. But ScotGov expenditure (wages, benefits etc) are paid in Punts. ScotGov can issue debt in Punts (NOT GBP!) and pay it back in Punts. Everybody happy.

    I assume you are taking the piss, but on the offchance you are not i will ask the inevitable question

    If I get paid in punts, how do I buy my groceries in GBP?
    There was a time when the Irish Punt and Sterling were kept at parity. In Ireland you could use Sterling and Punts interchangeably, but in England, your Punts would be refused. Then Ireland joined the Euro.
    Yeah, that's not what was proposed. The proposal was "Everyday life is done in GBP" so I need pounds to buy groceries, "But ScotGov expenditure (wages, benefits etc) are paid in Punts." so how do I buy my groceries in pounds if I am paid in punts?
  • I look forward to seeing more doors slammed in SNP faces as the campaign gets going. They tried the INDEPENDENCE argument last year and got scunnered. And seemingly the strategy next year is the same. Marvellous stuff.

    They only have one strategy, independence as the universal cure for all Scottish ills. Some people will buy that in the short term, but an actual Indyref would inevitably bring forward details of all the ways independence would severely harm Scotland in the short and mid term.

    The SNP's core weakness is their inability to honest with people; that going through the chaotic and financially painful separation is gamble that may result in a more fair, democratic and prosperous country for future generations, , but may also crush the Scottish economy flat and leave the country a basket case.

    Voters are unlikely to take that gamble if they understand exactly what's at risk, so the SNP keeps trying to pretend independence would be all honey, cream and sunlit uplands.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,997
    Barnesian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    viewcode said:

    Re the header. Scotland can run a dual-currency solution. Everyday life is done in GBP. Private company, wages etc are paid in GBP. ScotGov income (taxes, fines etc) are paid in GBP. But ScotGov expenditure (wages, benefits etc) are paid in Punts. ScotGov can issue debt in Punts (NOT GBP!) and pay it back in Punts. Everybody happy.

    I assume you are taking the piss, but on the offchance you are not i will ask the inevitable question

    If I get paid in punts, how do I buy my groceries in GBP?
    There was a time when the Irish Punt and Sterling were kept at parity. In Ireland you could use Sterling and Punts interchangeably, but in England, your Punts would be refused. Then Ireland joined the Euro.
    They weren't equal value, though.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,303
    I think an independent Scotland would apply to join the Euro. This fact is one of those that rules out any wildcat referenda as Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining that hasn't gone through the correct hoops with it's ex parent country. But if they had a Westminster allowed referendum they'd get in after a few years
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,749
    He blinked, or TACO if you prefer

    @alaynatreene

    The Trump administration says it will provide partial food stamp benefits for Nov by tapping into the program’s contingency fund

    A USDA official said in a sworn statement that the agency will use $4.65 billion from the fund for SNAP benefits, which will “be obligated to cover 50% of eligible households’ current allotments.”
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,271
    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, a Scottish currency would be weak. On the other hand if Scotland was allowed an independence vote, Westminster and the UK government implemented it and then Edinburgh decided to join the EU and Euro then that wouldn't be really a vote for full independence anyway

    The original Union was all about access to markets - the English colonies in America. 'Independence' is better viewed as access to other markets by another form of Union. The decision will be whether the EU is a better long term bet than rUK. Probably not clear enough for the Independent curious.
    No it was because Scotland needed a bailout after the Darien Scheme failed
    Scotland didn't. The nobles did. They were the investors. They needed bribes Do keep up.

    Irrelevant anyway.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,303
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    viewcode said:

    Re the header. Scotland can run a dual-currency solution. Everyday life is done in GBP. Private company, wages etc are paid in GBP. ScotGov income (taxes, fines etc) are paid in GBP. But ScotGov expenditure (wages, benefits etc) are paid in Punts. ScotGov can issue debt in Punts (NOT GBP!) and pay it back in Punts. Everybody happy.

    I assume you are taking the piss, but on the offchance you are not i will ask the inevitable question

    If I get paid in punts, how do I buy my groceries in GBP?
    Currency exchange, like when you go on holiday. Many countries manage to use two currencies simultaneously, eg Cambodia (USD and Riel) and Bosnia (KM and Euro)
    Türkiye seems to be moving in that direction as well - anything tourist facing was pricing things in euros this year which wasn't the case last year..
    We've never had a contract priced up in TYL with our big Turkish customers, always either Euro or Sterling depending on the predominant supplier (To us) currency
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,213

    Diesel cars cost more than the petrol equivalent. Therefore it is only worth buying a diesel if:

    - You do sufficient miles so that the fuel saving outweighs the additional purchase cost (taking resale value into account)
    - You don't mind killing kiddies with the particulate emissions

    Don't hyperventilate, Sandy!

    ULEZ means I hardly drive my evil, polluting diesel car!
    ULEZ means I sold my evil diesel car and bought a compliant and hopefully less evil diesel car.
    Diesel SUV for me every time though I did drop from 3L to 2L
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,213

    I look forward to seeing more doors slammed in SNP faces as the campaign gets going. They tried the INDEPENDENCE argument last year and got scunnered. And seemingly the strategy next year is the same. Marvellous stuff.

    They only have one strategy, independence as the universal cure for all Scottish ills. Some people will buy that in the short term, but an actual Indyref would inevitably bring forward details of all the ways independence would severely harm Scotland in the short and mid term.

    The SNP's core weakness is their inability to honest with people; that going through the chaotic and financially painful separation is gamble that may result in a more fair, democratic and prosperous country for future generations, , but may also crush the Scottish economy flat and leave the country a basket case.

    Voters are unlikely to take that gamble if they understand exactly what's at risk, so the SNP keeps trying to pretend independence would be all honey, cream and sunlit uplands.
    Utter bollox, what could be worse than being robbed and chained to the bunch of losers f***ing up the UK. Thick Little Englander Opines
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,459
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Quite a lot of countries use the US $ with no formal arrangements, don't they? Why not Scotland? It would please D Trump no end. Probably.

    Montenegro and Kosovo do the same with the Euro. And Bosnia in practice, as they have their own currency but it is pegged to the Euro
    Yes they do but with the agreement of the EU in the case of Montenegro. We holidayed there and as part of a trip to the wonderful Lake Skardar the guide went through what happened at the end of the war and the high inflation they endured. Lovely place Montenegro. Apart from people smoking in restaurants.
    Yes the smoking in bars and restaurants was tedious. But I enjoyed it. Didn't realise it was so mountainous, the clue is in the name I suppose
    We were in Herceg Novi. Lovely place. Also had a day out in Kotor. The ‘bus ‘ we travelled on was literally a clapped out Transit van.

    Aside from Kotor and Lake Skardar we never really went anywhere other than Herceg Novi. Really want to go back. Maybe 2027.
    I stayed in Herceg Novi too, days out to Kotor and Dubrovnik, before catching the bus to Bosnia. Before that I was in Podgorica and did day trips to Cetinje and Ostrog Monastery. Didn't get to Skardar, but I will probably do a trip to northern Albania and south east Montenegro some time.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,213

    Of course Forbes doesn't want any discussion about it. The SNP answer to everything broken is Independence. Can't see an NHS dentist today? Take heart as your teeth rot, for one day we will have independence and then you can have a dentist.

    How will Scotland pay for that dentist you ask? UNIONIST!!!

    I look forward to seeing more doors slammed in SNP faces as the campaign gets going. They tried the INDEPENDENCE argument last year and got scunnered. And seemingly the strategy next year is the same. Marvellous stuff.

    More bollox, you think that england is Utopia full of shiny implants for the peasants, give your head a wobble FFS.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,357
    When is @Leon coming back
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,465
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Quite a lot of countries use the US $ with no formal arrangements, don't they? Why not Scotland? It would please D Trump no end. Probably.

    Montenegro and Kosovo do the same with the Euro. And Bosnia in practice, as they have their own currency but it is pegged to the Euro
    Yes they do but with the agreement of the EU in the case of Montenegro. We holidayed there and as part of a trip to the wonderful Lake Skardar the guide went through what happened at the end of the war and the high inflation they endured. Lovely place Montenegro. Apart from people smoking in restaurants.
    Yes the smoking in bars and restaurants was tedious. But I enjoyed it. Didn't realise it was so mountainous, the clue is in the name I suppose
    We were in Herceg Novi. Lovely place. Also had a day out in Kotor. The ‘bus ‘ we travelled on was literally a clapped out Transit van.

    Aside from Kotor and Lake Skardar we never really went anywhere other than Herceg Novi. Really want to go back. Maybe 2027.
    Herceg Novi was just about the most southerly point of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (as was).
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,357
    Pulpstar said:

    I think an independent Scotland would apply to join the Euro. This fact is one of those that rules out any wildcat referenda as Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining that hasn't gone through the correct hoops with it's ex parent country. But if they had a Westminster allowed referendum they'd get in after a few years

    It would be rather strange to abandon the UK Single Market in favour of the European one, given the relative integration of trade between Scotland and those two.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,753
    edited November 3
    malcolmg said:

    Of course Forbes doesn't want any discussion about it. The SNP answer to everything broken is Independence. Can't see an NHS dentist today? Take heart as your teeth rot, for one day we will have independence and then you can have a dentist.

    How will Scotland pay for that dentist you ask? UNIONIST!!!

    I look forward to seeing more doors slammed in SNP faces as the campaign gets going. They tried the INDEPENDENCE argument last year and got scunnered. And seemingly the strategy next year is the same. Marvellous stuff.

    More bollox, you think that england is Utopia full of shiny implants for the peasants, give your head a wobble FFS.
    He's not saying that - he's saying that the SNP can't successfully continue the lie that Independence will solve all of Scotland's problems as more voters are seeing through the story...
  • eekeek Posts: 31,753
    moonshine said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think an independent Scotland would apply to join the Euro. This fact is one of those that rules out any wildcat referenda as Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining that hasn't gone through the correct hoops with it's ex parent country. But if they had a Westminster allowed referendum they'd get in after a few years

    It would be rather strange to abandon the UK Single Market in favour of the European one, given the relative integration of trade between Scotland and those two.
    Ireland has done a reasonable job separating though...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,465
    Pontoon Dock DLR is nearest station to the Thames Barrier.
  • malcolmg said:

    I look forward to seeing more doors slammed in SNP faces as the campaign gets going. They tried the INDEPENDENCE argument last year and got scunnered. And seemingly the strategy next year is the same. Marvellous stuff.

    They only have one strategy, independence as the universal cure for all Scottish ills. Some people will buy that in the short term, but an actual Indyref would inevitably bring forward details of all the ways independence would severely harm Scotland in the short and mid term.

    The SNP's core weakness is their inability to honest with people; that going through the chaotic and financially painful separation is gamble that may result in a more fair, democratic and prosperous country for future generations, , but may also crush the Scottish economy flat and leave the country a basket case.

    Voters are unlikely to take that gamble if they understand exactly what's at risk, so the SNP keeps trying to pretend independence would be all honey, cream and sunlit uplands.
    Utter bollox, what could be worse than being robbed and chained to the bunch of losers f***ing up the UK. Thick Little Englander Opines
    Did you get that from NatGPT, Malc?

    You should ask it to check my posting history which would reveal I am, in fact, Scottish. I'll take being accused of being thick, everyone has an opinion, but getting called an Englander. Ye can get stuffed with that, ya wee fannybaws.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 915

    Ye can get stuffed with that, ya wee fannybaws.

    I don't know what this means, but I like it
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,331
    This looks very serious for the BBC.

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1985369764118622626

    The BBC edited a Donald Trump speech by making him appear to encourage the Capitol Hill riot, according to an internal whistleblowing memo seen by The Telegraph
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 831
    There is something about the Scottish, that we celebrate victories before they happen, and have a big party, but when it comes down to it we bottle it. I will always vote Yes because starting your own country is the most fun thing, but the UK is crumbling and we still can't sustain a 10% lead over No.

    I don't and never did believe in the current structure of the Scottish parliament - unicameral, no scrutinising chamber, and our journalism has become utter dogshit so there's no journalistic scrutiny either. Almost designed to fail. For this reason I never voted in the referendum, just sat chainsmoking Marlboro Red in North East Fife watching people go out to vote. Despite voting Remain I see the attraction of the kick-it-over-and-start-again of Vote Leave.

    I remember posting on here in the heady early days of Boris that he might be wacky enough to force the referendum himself. He wasn't, but I think that's Reform's policy now? I don't see the SNP going for it. If Reform do force it it's interesting, they can draft the question to remove acquiescence bias, pick the date, all of that.
  • eek said:

    moonshine said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think an independent Scotland would apply to join the Euro. This fact is one of those that rules out any wildcat referenda as Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining that hasn't gone through the correct hoops with it's ex parent country. But if they had a Westminster allowed referendum they'd get in after a few years

    It would be rather strange to abandon the UK Single Market in favour of the European one, given the relative integration of trade between Scotland and those two.
    Ireland has done a reasonable job separating though...
    Yeah, running low taxes and balanced budgets has enabled them to have high growth.

    The SNP don't believe in that unfortunately.

    Nor do Westminster parties, unfortunately.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,924
    edited November 3

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Quite a lot of countries use the US $ with no formal arrangements, don't they? Why not Scotland? It would please D Trump no end. Probably.

    Montenegro and Kosovo do the same with the Euro. And Bosnia in practice, as they have their own currency but it is pegged to the Euro
    Yes they do but with the agreement of the EU in the case of Montenegro. We holidayed there and as part of a trip to the wonderful Lake Skardar the guide went through what happened at the end of the war and the high inflation they endured. Lovely place Montenegro. Apart from people smoking in restaurants.
    Yes the smoking in bars and restaurants was tedious. But I enjoyed it. Didn't realise it was so mountainous, the clue is in the name I suppose
    We were in Herceg Novi. Lovely place. Also had a day out in Kotor. The ‘bus ‘ we travelled on was literally a clapped out Transit van.

    Aside from Kotor and Lake Skardar we never really went anywhere other than Herceg Novi. Really want to go back. Maybe 2027.
    I stayed in Herceg Novi too, days out to Kotor and Dubrovnik, before catching the bus to Bosnia. Before that I was in Podgorica and did day trips to Cetinje and Ostrog Monastery. Didn't get to Skardar, but I will probably do a trip to northern Albania and south east Montenegro some time.
    Would really recommend Lake Skardar. It’s utterly lovely.

    Kotor is lovely, the walled city is so vibrant inside with lots of great bars and restaurants. We would go back in a heartbeat but our four holidays next year are already booked.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,465
    eek said:

    moonshine said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think an independent Scotland would apply to join the Euro. This fact is one of those that rules out any wildcat referenda as Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining that hasn't gone through the correct hoops with it's ex parent country. But if they had a Westminster allowed referendum they'd get in after a few years

    It would be rather strange to abandon the UK Single Market in favour of the European one, given the relative integration of trade between Scotland and those two.
    Ireland has done a reasonable job separating though...
    If you ignore the partition line...
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,250
    moonshine said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think an independent Scotland would apply to join the Euro. This fact is one of those that rules out any wildcat referenda as Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining that hasn't gone through the correct hoops with it's ex parent country. But if they had a Westminster allowed referendum they'd get in after a few years

    It would be rather strange to abandon the UK Single Market in favour of the European one, given the relative integration of trade between Scotland and those two.
    Rather ironically Brexit has proven to be a nail in the coffin for Indy, along with the currency question. FFS: the best they can do is argue that England is stealing Scotland's wind!

    The project is totally bereft of any new thinking or initiative. The saltire is looking pretty threadbare despite this being an age of flag-waving.

    No wonder Kate Forbes is retiring at the age of 35.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,066
    Monkeys said:

    There is something about the Scottish, that we celebrate victories before they happen, and have a big party, but when it comes down to it we bottle it. I will always vote Yes because starting your own country is the most fun thing, but the UK is crumbling and we still can't sustain a 10% lead over No.

    I don't and never did believe in the current structure of the Scottish parliament - unicameral, no scrutinising chamber, and our journalism has become utter dogshit so there's no journalistic scrutiny either. Almost designed to fail. For this reason I never voted in the referendum, just sat chainsmoking Marlboro Red in North East Fife watching people go out to vote. Despite voting Remain I see the attraction of the kick-it-over-and-start-again of Vote Leave.

    I remember posting on here in the heady early days of Boris that he might be wacky enough to force the referendum himself. He wasn't, but I think that's Reform's policy now? I don't see the SNP going for it. If Reform do force it it's interesting, they can draft the question to remove acquiescence bias, pick the date, all of that.

    As to why not much change in Scotland - if you want change, you have to change something.

    Despite the rhetoric, the SNP were all about continuity, plus a slightly higher spend per per head. Well, apart from centralisation.

    Strangely, this has resulted in not much change, apart from some centralisation and a slightly higher spend per head of population.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,924

    This looks very serious for the BBC.

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1985369764118622626

    The BBC edited a Donald Trump speech by making him appear to encourage the Capitol Hill riot, according to an internal whistleblowing memo seen by The Telegraph

    Remember when they did some shitty stuff with Corbyn too ?

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,566

    For those who jumped on the 'doesn't rule it out' Telegraph hype yesterday:

    “I don’t think airport-style scanners would be the way to go,” the transport secretary told Sky News. “I understand why you asked the question, and I understand why some of your viewers might be wondering about that.

    “We have thousands of railway stations across the UK, and those stations have multiple entrances, multiple platforms. What we can’t do is make life impossible for everyone, but we do need to take sensible and proportionate steps to make the public transport network safe.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/nov/03/metal-detectors-train-stations-transport-cambridgeshire-stabbings

    Well, that's something.

    It's good to see a politician not jump on a bandwagon or overreact.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,566

    O/T

    No migrants have been recorded crossing the English Channel for 11 days, the longest gap so far this year, PA Media reports. PA says:

    The most recent date on which people arrived in the UK after making the journey by boat was 22 October, according to the latest Home Office data.

    Bad weather is likely to have played a role in stopping migrants from attempting to reach the English coast. Storm Benjamin brought heavy rain and strong winds to northern France and the Channel on 23 October, with further wet and blustery weather on subsequent days.

    The 11-day gap in arrivals from 23 October to 2 November beats this year’s previous longest gap, which was the 10 days from 27 August to 5 September.

    Channel crossings in 2025 are no longer running at record levels.

    The cumulative number of arrivals this year, 36,954, is 7% below the total at this point in 2022 (39,929).

    Some 45,774 migrants arrived in 2022 – the highest number in any calendar year since data on Channel crossings was first collected in 2018.

    This year’s total of 36,954 has already passed the number for the whole of 2024 (36,816) and 2023 (29,437).

    I'd say we need a giant wave machine in the Channel but I suspect it'd then be closed down on human rights grounds.

    Not sure I'm joking.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,327

    Pontoon Dock DLR is nearest station to the Thames Barrier.

    I remember getting off the new Royal Wharf pier and walking to Pontoon Dock about a year ago.
  • This is the same sort of lead Reform had over Plaid Cymru in Caerphilly in the final poll.

    I promised to be modest and self effacing if Cuomo wins.

    Final AtlasIntel (A+) NYC mayoral poll:

    Mamdani 43.9%
    Cuomo 39.4%
    Sliwa 15.5%


    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1985409674556932546
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,628
    Scott_xP said:

    @Reuters

    Tesla's sales plunged in October in a number of European countries including Spain, the Netherlands and Nordic markets in the latest sign that the US electric vehicle maker's struggles on the continent continue

    https://x.com/Reuters/status/1985390263578112113

    If they sold them together with the "I bought this car before Elon went crazy" sticker perhaps they might see a slight uptick.
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