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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Rod Even in 2005 Labour's majority would only have fallen from 60 to 40 without Scotland. 2010 was an anomaly due to Brown being a Scot and Labour's vote ROSE north of the border, under Miliband Labour is polling 6% less for 2015 than it did in 2010
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    I feel a real idiot for failing to realise that Al Qaeda will be glued around a TV in some cave in Afghanistan waiting with bated breath for the Auchtermuchty result coming in.

    Mick_Pork said:

    George Robertson interview on Newsnight Scotland about NATO and Scottish independence. All I can say is, judge for yourself.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b040r0d3/Newsnight_Scotland_08_04_2014/

    Wee Georgie always was overfond of a tipple. I'm impressed he managed to stay upright with some of that swaying on camera. He also seems to have had some amusing form of memory loss whereby he has somehow forgotten he used to be against Trident. A "cataclysmic" memory loss even.

    LOL
    Indeed. Who could have guessed that a democratic vote in scotland would have far more dire consequences than say the Iraq and Afghanistan... Hmmm.. I was going to say "cataclysms" but clearly that is a word only to be used for REAL emergencies and world crisis like scottish independence. Just like Devolution was in fact.

    We'll just call them the Iraq and Afghanistan "misunderstandings" then.
    That should please wee Georgie and his brainless new NeoCon friends.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    MickPork When Labour's vote has risen across the UK by at least 7% since 2010, but in Scotland fallen by 6% since 2010, it tells you something about the relative appeals of Mcbroon and London salon Ed to the average Scot!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Socialist Worker — "The elite's arrogance strengthens Ukip's Nigel Farage":

    http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art/37870/The+elites+arrogance+strengthens+Ukips+Nigel+Farage
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2014
    HYUFD said:

    MickPork When Labour's vote has risen across the UK by at least 7% since 2010, but in Scotland fallen by 6% since 2010, it tells you something about the relative appeals of Mcbroon and London salon Ed to the average Scot!

    Whereas your fixation on little Ed being "jewish" and "Jocks" tells us all we ever need to know about ever taking you seriously again. I realise you seem oblivious to just how big a fool you are making of yourself but rest assured whatever your motives you really are making the NO side look utterly ridiculous and deranged. Keep at it by all means.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2014
    Interesting if true. Possible betting implications I would think. ;)

    Cllr Stephen West ‏@cllrstephenwest 1h

    Various Conservative ex-colleagues have told me tonight that Maria Miller is going to resign from her Cabinet post tomorrow. More to follow.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033
    Mick_Pork said:

    Interesting if true. Possible betting implications I would think. ;)

    Cllr Stephen West ‏@cllrstephenwest 1h

    Various Conservative ex-colleagues have told me tonight that Maria Miller is going to resign from her Cabinet post tomorrow. More to follow.

    It'd make sense for it to happen before PMQs. I think it would have been much more dignified had she resigned in her statement, and honestly where has party loyalty got to these days? Surely she should have realised that resigning would be good for the party, and would probably mean she would be welcomed back into the fold after some period had elapsed. Now she is just toxic.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2014
    RobD said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    Interesting if true. Possible betting implications I would think. ;)

    Cllr Stephen West ‏@cllrstephenwest 1h

    Various Conservative ex-colleagues have told me tonight that Maria Miller is going to resign from her Cabinet post tomorrow. More to follow.

    It'd make sense for it to happen before PMQs. I think it would have been much more dignified had she resigned in her statement, and honestly where has party loyalty got to these days? Surely she should have realised that resigning would be good for the party, and would probably mean she would be welcomed back into the fold after some period had elapsed. Now she is just toxic.
    The caveat being that's a UKIP councillor now who used to previously be a tory.
    IF it's true then I would think it would have to be before PMQs as you rightly say.

    Let's face it with the new council tax stuff, the likes of Boothroyd piling in and not mincing her words, as well as the tory members poll of 82% wanting her gone, it's pretty damn hard hard to see an upside in keeping her where she is now. Expenses is as toxic as MPs pay. Laws still hasn't really recovered even now and he went fairly sharpish.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Maria Miller used expenses to pay parents' council tax

    Culture Secretary claimed up to £2,335 a year to cover council tax - her parents should not have been allowed to benefit from her expenses as an MP

    Maria Miller was found to have subsidised her parents’ council tax payments in an overlooked part of the official report into her expenses claims."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/conservative-mps-expenses/10753856/Maria-Miller-used-expenses-to-pay-parents-council-tax.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    MickPork Miliband is a north London wonk, it is fairly obvious, and the polling is clear, that he has less appeal in Scotland than Brown, a native son, whether you like it or not
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    Socrates said:

    Here you go. When europhiles say, I'd like a clear plan for what an EU exit would look like, well here it is:

    http://www.iea.org.uk/in-the-media/press-release/iain-mansfield-named-winner-of-€100000-iea-brexit-prize

    Your go, Tory europhiles. What does renegotiation look like? I've heard sweet FA so far.

    I don't know what renegotiation looks like (one of my most trenchant criticisms of Cameron's position is he simply doesn't know what he is trying to negotiate towards). And, after the arse-sandwich that was the Wolfson Prize for how best to break up the Euro (the winning prize was "pretend the French and German banks will cooperate" - and the winner trousered £100K for that), I didn't really want to plow thru another fantasist wish list. However it's a serious question, so let's give it a go.

    GOOD BITS OF THE PROPOSAL
    ==================
    * By explicitly leaving the Single Market and going straight for EFTA it avoids completely the arguments over what EU regs would have to remain in place to maintain the Single Market
    * It also has the virtue of simplicity. A nice bit of Gordian Knot cutting (compare to Salmond's havering over GBP for a counter-example)
    * The mooted association of EU-outer countries would work. Whether it would be any use is another thing (it seems a bit Stewie from Family Guy), but it's not a bad idea per se and wouldn't cost much

    BAD BITS OF THE PROPOSAL
    =================
    * Assumes repealing the specific regs (The Working Time Directive, bans on pesticides, binding renewable energy targets, health and safety laws imposed on domestic businesses, et al) will have popular support. It assumes that they are there because the EU imposed them, and neglects to consider that they may be domestically popular
    * Spends the savings. In order to compensate for Single Market exit, the author proposes tax breaks, supply-side incentives, special economic zones, National Insurance holidays, Research and Development tax credit, etc. These may stimulate growth (I'd be surprised if they didn't), but in the short/medium term they will cost money. It's like saying "I've been dieting all week, let's have a bag of chips to celebrate".
    * Loses the Single Market (I love the way the article says "reduced access" - ya think?)

    Those are my initial thoughts. Should I construct arguments against the proposals, it would be around the areas of border security (Ireland is not mentioned: the UK's perpetual blind spot), the fact that the mooted replacement bilateral arrangements would not be better than the existing arrangements without extending a similar incentive (TANSTAAFL), and assumes cooperation from China/US/Australia/Canada/France et al that is not in evidence. But that's a conversation for another day.

    Incidentally, I assume you're familiar with this: http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/briefing-papers/RP13-42/leaving-the-eu
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    An SNP attempt to downplay Alex Salmond's five-star hotel bills has backfired spectacularly after it emerged he stayed at luxury accommodation singled out by Nicola Sturgeon for direct criticism.

    The Deputy First Minister recently defended Mr Salmond's controversial oversees expense claims by saying he would not get caught staying at New York's upmarket Benjamin Hotel like Jack McConnell, his Labour predecessor.

    But The Telegraph can disclose Mr Salmond has in fact stayed at The Benjamin, spending three nights in a king suite there during a taxpayer-funded trip to the United States in October 2007.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10751287/Expenses-Alex-Salmond-stayed-at-luxury-hotel-publicly-condemned-by-Nicola-Sturgeon.html
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    HYUFD said:

    MickPork Miliband is a north London wonk, it is fairly obvious, and the polling is clear, that he has less appeal in Scotland than Brown, a native son, whether you like it or not

    I don't give a flying f**k whether Brown is more popular than little Ed. You think Cameron isn't popular with the "Jocks" in scotland because he's CofE or Clegg is unpopular in scotland because his constituency is Sheffield Hallam?? Like I said, get a grip and stop digging.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    That is utter bollocks! Sorry, but you are obviously someone with no real connections to the armed forces.

    HYUFD said:

    EhAhemEhAhem Generations of Scots have died fighting for the Union flag from the Napolenic wars on. The Queen is herself part Scottish, a direct descendant of the ancient Scot Kings, and her love for the country is evident from her stays at Balmoral

    When older relatives of mine recalled their wartime memories, not one mentioned the King or a flag.
    Don't believe the dewy eyed stories of King/Queen and country.

    HYUFD said:

    EhAhemEhAhem Generations of Scots have died fighting for the Union flag from the Napolenic wars on. The Queen is herself part Scottish, a direct descendant of the ancient Scot Kings, and her love for the country is evident from her stays at Balmoral

    When older relatives of mine recalled their wartime memories, not one mentioned the King or a flag.
    Don't believe the dewy eyed stories of King/Queen and country.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    MickPork Well you may not care, but the evidence is clear and the reason is Brown is a Scot and so got an above average net Labour advantage in Scotland in 2010 relative to the rest of the UK. In 2015, as in 2005, Labour will get a generic score in Scotland, a little boost to its overall UK score but rarely decisive. The whole point being Labour can win without Scotland and also the Tories should not completely ignore Scotland. Night!
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Still not going away, is it?

    ITV News ‏@itvnews 7h

    Basingstoke councillor condemns 'unethical' Maria Miller, says her cabinet role is 'untenable' http://itv.co/1qlK1Xn pic.twitter.com/cpS0sY7eSz


    Isabel Hardman ‏@IsabelHardman

    Curious lack of enthusiasm for Maria Miller among Cabinet ministers. Can't find any who would be gutted if she goes http://specc.ie/1g3Pux9


    BBC Newsnight ‏@BBCNewsnight 2h

    Andrew Lansley says Maria Miller is a 'good Culture Secretary' and he hopes that she won't resign #newsnight

    Peter Thompson ‏@TheRedRag 9m

    Seems Maria Miller is going to resign later today. About time!


    Telegraph Politics ‏@TelePolitics 7h

    Blog: Graceless, evasive Maria Miller has damaged her party and bolstered the Ukip anti-politics... http://tgr.ph/1qlK85k by @jameskirkup

    Kevin Meagher ‏@KevinPMeagher

    Maria Miller's local paper is running a poll about whether she should resign: http://www.basingstokegazette.co.uk/news/11129715.Basingstoke_MP_Maria_Miller_under_pressure_to__quit-or-resign/ … 96% say she should go.

    Alex Andreou ‏@sturdyAlex 24m

    Superb scoop by the Telegraph. Maria Miller should be toast now. Surely too toxic for PM to defend. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/conservative-mps-expenses/10753856/Maria-Miller-used-expenses-to-pay-parents-council-tax.html
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Cleddau Radio ‏@CleddauRadio 18m

    Sky News: Conservative MPs Refuse To Back Maria Miller http://ow.ly/2FubG8 http://fb.me/1hJl8uwq1
  • AndyJS said:

    Socialist Worker — "The elite's arrogance strengthens Ukip's Nigel Farage":

    More pseudo-Joachism masquerading as classical Marxism. Another reason why Norman Cohn's Pursuit of the Millenium should be mandatory reading in all schools.
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    "That is utter bollocks! Sorry, but you are obviously someone with no real connections to the armed forces."

    I've spent a lot of time around the military, they all say the same thing, they fought for their mates around them.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    isam said:

    Could anybody tell me, is the yes and no vote at all split regionally in Scotland? If there is a Northern or Southern bias toward either option couldn't that be problematic post vote whatever the outcome?

    My guess - based purely on middle ages history so take with a pinch of salt - would be:

    relatively more pro-union: central lowlands, east coast, far north
    relatively more anti-union: west coast
    mixed: borders
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    HYUFD said:

    EhAhemEhAhem Generations of Scots have died fighting for the Union flag from the Napolenic wars on. The Queen is herself part Scottish, a direct descendant of the ancient Scot Kings, and her love for the country is evident from her stays at Balmoral

    When older relatives of mine recalled their wartime memories, not one mentioned the King or a flag.
    Don't believe the dewy eyed stories of King/Queen and country.
    In my experience those things tend to be mentioned a lot - not always positively- it could be negative e.g. "bleeping King and country" or joking but generally mentioned a lot one way or the other.

    If I was running the "In" campaign I'd have posters like this up with the caption "Free Holidays 1815" or "Cook's Tours 1854."

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/ScotsGreys.jpg

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited April 2014
    You must have forgotten the case of Kristen, a poster formerly of this parish whose son had his benefits cut off while fighting cancer UNDER the last Labour Government.

    Very sad to see @Smareron describing our country that has a long tradition of looking after its people with both a free NHS and a welfare state as a cesspit! What does that say about us when compared to other nations throughout the globe?

    I remember her on TV defending cutting off disability benefits to people with cancer after a year.

    Smarmeron said:

    @old_labour

    We are all in it together though?
    It's just that the poorest are at the bottom of the cesspit.

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    You are putting words in my mouth and being economical with the truth. Can you provide a link where I used the word "cesspit"?
    fitalass said:

    You must have forgotten the case of Kristen, a poster formerly of this parish whose son had his benefits cut off while fighting cancer UNDER the last Labour Government.

    Very sad to see @Smareron describing our country that has a long tradition of looking after its people with both a free NHS and a welfare state as a cesspit! What does that say about us when compared to other nations throughout the globe?

    I remember her on TV defending cutting off disability benefits to people with cancer after a year.

    Smarmeron said:

    @old_labour

    We are all in it together though?
    It's just that the poorest are at the bottom of the cesspit.

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited April 2014
    Really, would that be the same mates that met and bonded with each other through their choice of a career in the military. I have often heard soldiers say that their loyalty was almost first and foremost to Queen and country rather than the politicians who sent them all over the globe.

    "That is utter bollocks! Sorry, but you are obviously someone with no real connections to the armed forces."

    I've spent a lot of time around the military, they all say the same thing, they fought for their mates around them.

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    edited April 2014

    "That is utter bollocks! Sorry, but you are obviously someone with no real connections to the armed forces."

    I've spent a lot of time around the military, they all say the same thing, they fought for their mates around them.

    So if you ****ed on their old cap badge in front of them they wouldn't be bothered?

    edit: I'm not saying you're wrong about what people say. I'm saying they leave stuff out because it's personal.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    It would be nice if Kristin returned to PB.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    AndyJS said:

    isam said:

    Could anybody tell me, is the yes and no vote at all split regionally in Scotland? If there is a Northern or Southern bias toward either option couldn't that be problematic post vote whatever the outcome?

    The southern 20% of Scotland (in terms of population not area) is much more pro-Union than the rest of the country. And then you have Orkney & Shetland which are likely to vote No rather heavily.
    Very little support in local polling some months ago for Orkney and Shetland to split from Scotland and stay with the UK, less than 10% which rather upset Mr Carmichael the local MP ... not quite the same thing admittedly. But another rough surrogate is the 1990s devolution vote and they didn't vote no for devolution by that much more than the Scottish average. And I'm not quite so sure about the Borders, Dumfries and Galloway. Okay, there are plenty of incoming retirees who would vote Tory and therefore No just because they are elderly and set in their ways, but there are some very interesting economic implications for the area of a Scotland in the EU and EWNI out. I'd like to see the Euro election results first and give the implications a little time to sink in.

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Danny565 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour would still have won most of its victories even without any Scottish seats.

    In an era when Labour were winning dozens of seats in the South, and the Tories dozens in Scotland...
    No. In that long-gone era of 2005...
    HYUFD said 'most of its victories.'

    And most were in the era I referred to...
This discussion has been closed.