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Scrapheap_as_was

Ed Balls

Echo.............

kle4

FPT

Socrates said:

» show previous quotes
I've said from the beginning that the Unionist argument had to always be routed in shared heritage and common identity. For years and years, Westminster politicians have tried to make the case based on economics alone. Economics matters of course, but people ultimately make these decisions long term on where they feel their allegiance lies. But the big unionist parties have always been scared to do so, because they're all Europhiles and a proud British identity would get in the way of that. The result has been a precipitous drop off in British identity in Scotland.

I actually think, following a no vote, we'll have one last chance to resurrect British nationhood in the eyes of people across this island. But we'll need politicians who actually believe in it, rather than the current careerist, poll-focused muppets we currently have in there.

Here's a clip of Farage from a few years ago:
Just watching it, you can see he passionately believes in something, follows the issues in depth because of his care for them, and is worried great harm will come to people if his warnings aren't heeded. When do you ever feel that listening to polished spads like Clegg, Cameron and Miliband?
------------------------
Rarely. The problem with their professional polish, naturally, is that because they are so aware of how they want each statement to be perceived, they manage each statement with great care. That does not mean that when they adopt a 'serious and sincere' face and tone that they do not mean it of course, but they are very very very aware of how they want that serious and sincere message put across, which works fine one on one, for the most part, but if everyone is doing it in a PPB or debate, it looks fake even when it isn't.

Stark_Dawning

FTP:

SeanT said:

And finally, perhaps most importantly, 3: Labour need to get off their butts and go knocking on humble doors, day after day, in Govan and the Gorbals, scaring the bejasus out of Labour voters as to their future benefits, tax credits and pensions, with an impoverished indy Scotland facing declining oil revenues.

Absolutely. I've been appalled by Labour's dismal effort in this campaign - a shambolic disgrace. We were assured that Labour's 'mass membership' is poised to launch an irresistible 'ground war' throughout the length and breadth of the country. This campaign has exposed that as a hollow mockery. Labour have become fat, lacklustre and indifferent. If Labour repeats these insipid efforts in 2015 Dave will be getting a landslide.

kle4

FPT

Saddened Said

Ahh, got it, Labour minor disagreements = a good thing, Tory minor disagreements = chaos worthy of sackings.

Well everyone knows that. It's the same logic as while many Labour figures have as little real world experience or personal understanding of the plights of the less fortunate as many Tory figures, rich posh Tories cannot possibly understand that plight and come up with solutions, while rich posh Labour figures of course are perfectly able to do so and rich poshness is not even an issue.

Tykejohnno

SeanT said:

fpt

IOS said:

"Saddened.

I think you misunderstand what the role of people like Alexander is. The last thing they should be doing is setting the world on fire. They should we managing a large bureaucracy towards a stated aim.

Alexander is good at this sort of stuff though. I rate him."

Shame he will become a foreigner in September then, if Labour let the Nats win.

My point in a nutshell.

LOL - IoS bangs on about the ground war,labour bloody losing the ground war in they own backyard .

'Chortle'

kle4

Stark_Dawning said:

FTP:

SeanT said:

And finally, perhaps most importantly, 3: Labour need to get off their butts and go knocking on humble doors, day after day, in Govan and the Gorbals, scaring the bejasus out of Labour voters as to their future benefits, tax credits and pensions, with an impoverished indy Scotland facing declining oil revenues.

Absolutely. I've been appalled by Labour's dismal effort in this campaign - a shambolic disgrace. We were assured that Labour's 'mass membership' is poised to launch an irresistible 'ground war' throughout the length and breadth of the country. This campaign has exposed that as a hollow mockery. Labour have become fat, lacklustre and indifferent. If Labour repeats these insipid efforts in 2015 Dave will be getting a landslide.

It is unfortunate that they appear to care more about securing a majority in 2015 through calculated caution, which they can do with England and Wales alone, though it makes it harder, than putting in effort to make that majority easier by guaranteeing Scotland will remain a part of the UK.

There should be so much effort being put in that its effect should be noticable even to those not on the ground in Scotland, as the SNP's messaging is. We're just not seeing that from Labour.

Financier

For Topic 1, the scores on the doors are:

To the questions: "Should remain in current Role" and "Should resign from their role and be replaced"

Maria Miller: 9 remain and 63 resign
Nick Clegg: 23/52
Michael Gove: 27/47
Ed Milliband: 33/46
Vince Cable: 30/40
Ed Balls: 35/40
IDS: 38/37
George Osborn: 42/37
David Cameron: 51/32
Theresa May: 43/30

Stuart_Dickson

PANDA on PANDA incoming.

New Ladbrokes market - Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (Con maj = 4,194)

Con 2/5
Lab 9/4
SNP 16/1
UKIP 100/1
LD 100/1

NickPalmer

As a matter of interest, how much door-to-door canvassing really is going on in the Scottish referendum? Will an average voter in Edinburgh have been visited yet? What about in villages?

Stuart_Dickson

New Ladbrokes market - Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Con maj = 3,423)

Con 4/7
Lab 5/4
PC 100/1
UKIP 100/1
LD 100/1

Morris_Dancer

Good evening, everyone.

F1: an in-season test in Bahrian began today.

The top 3 market for the drivers is tricky indeed. There are legitimate reasons to back many contenders (Hulkenberg, Alonso, Button, Vettel), so I've decided to leave it alone.

Theuniondivvie

More dissent in the SLAB ranks. When the polls start showing 50:50 I predict an MSP or two.

'Two prominent Labour politicians from South Ayrshire are backing Yes after becoming disillusioned with the Westminster system.
Gordon McKenzie from Prestwick was the Provost of the local authority for three years from 2003 and John Baillie, a former council leader, have both declared their public support for independence.
Mr McKenzie cited his shock at the rise in foodbank use in Prestwick and Mr Baillie raised concerns that “nothing will change” if there’s a No vote.
John Baillie, of Prestwick, said: “I have travelled all over Europe and after seeing vibrant and small countries like Denmark and Norway I have come to the conclusion there needs to be a seismic change in Scotland. That can only happen if Scotland can take control. The whole of the UK is being drained by London, including the costs of high speed rail down south. It is an economic issue - it is not about patriotism.
“The thought of waking up the day after the referendum with a ‘no’ vote fills me with dread because nothing will change.”
In a growing trend of Labour supporters and members moving to Yes, McKenzie and Baillie join party stalwarts Bob Thomson, Carol Fox, John Mulvey, Alex Mosson and Sir Charles Gray in moving to independence.
Former civic head, Mr McKenzie said: “The hysteria coming out of the government down south is pushing me away. A few years back we never had foodbanks on the streets of Prestwick and I think it is absolutely ridiculous.
“My decision is nothing to do with the SNP and Alex Salmond - it is more important than that. It is about the people of Scotland doing a better job of managing our own affairs.”'

http://tinyurl.com/ptfehyn

kle4

Miller'll be getting an earful for taking attention away from 5. Had she given a more complete apology or not had an attitude (justifiable or not) suring the investigation which was reported to the press, it may well have been none of this had as much legs as a story as it has had. The perceived flippancy and contempt has magnified the whole affair and taken away attention from good news.

7. Does Danny Alexander really want to be the 'continuity' candidate? I guess given his prominent role in the Coalition and, if there is a rocky relationship between him and Osborne he has not exactly promoted that (for professionalism or other reasons), he has little other way of presenting as a leadership candidate, but even if the LDs do not get wiped out in the Euros and even if they do not get culled in 2015, they will lose a lot of seats nonetheless, and promising more of the same, when the party will have many clamouring to return to the Labour-lite fold that got them many more votes, seems unlikely to succeed when Clegg will reach his inevitable downfall.

Morris_Dancer

Incidentally, my backing of Perez for a podium was influenced by Allan McNish, a great addition to the BBC's F1 team [although he was a guest co-commentator previously]. McNish has written a piece here on the current state of play:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/26947246

PS Scotland, if you do become independent, can we keep the Scots on the F1 coverage? It's weird how just about all the best people on it are Scottish.

I watched the BBC highlights of Bahrain, and although Coulthard's less polished as a commentator than Brundle the Scot was sharper.

kle4

NickPalmer said:

As a matter of interest, how much door-to-door canvassing really is going on in the Scottish referendum? Will an average voter in Edinburgh have been visited yet? What about in villages?

If I am to take the internet commenting system seriously then the No side have barely stirred from their base, or more likely from London itself, while the Yes side are on a first name basis with every SNP, wavering SLAB and former SLD and hordes of non-voters in the country.

But joking aside, it's an interesting question. At what point can the sides afford to go for broke as it were? Are we still in the planning phase?

Stuart_Dickson

New Ladbrokes market - Vale of Glamorgan (Con maj = 4,307)

Con 8/15
Lab 11/8
PC 100/1
UKIP 100/1
LD 100/1

Morris_Dancer

Mr. T, Machiavelli wrote that problems are easy to solve when they're hard to detect, but by the time they're easy to see the problem is monstrous (like destroying a dragon's egg versus the dragon itself).

But Labour have no excuse. The SNP always said it was 2014 for the vote.

Mick_Pork

Theuniondivvie said:

More dissent in the SLAB ranks. When the polls start showing 50:50 I predict an MSP or two.

Nah.
They just need to double down on the negativity. You know, like they did in 2007 and 2011.
Happily, since they still don't know any better, they almost certainly will.

MikeK

The MikeK two monthly forecast for UKIP seats captured in GE 2015:
is
33± one or two.

IOS

mmmm

Can't really post everything on here but, while I expect the Nats to have campaigned hard, I don't understand where the implication that Labour and or other groups haven't.

TheScreamingEagles

I can't believe I've just cheered a Chelsea goal.

corporeal

Socrates said:

SeanT said:

They need a three pronged approach, 1. lots of Labour and LD grandees like Charles Kennedy and Gordon Brown making passionate positive pleas for the union - 300 years of history, NHS and empire, culture and Olympics - then 2. some nastier types (John Reid?) ALSO making the negative case (because it is effective; esp relentless focus on the currency, deficit, and EU).

And finally, perhaps most importantly, 3: Labour need to get off their butts and go knocking on humble doors, day after day, in Govan and the Gorbals, scaring the bejasus out of Labour voters as to their future benefits, tax credits and pensions, with an impoverished indy Scotland facing declining oil revenues.

And maybe 4. HMG should start secretly and illegally funelling loads of money into the NO campaign. Millions and millions. This is the future of the country we're talking about. Let the Nats sue. F*ck em.

I've said from the beginning that the Unionist argument had to always be routed in shared heritage and common identity. For years and years, Westminster politicians have tried to make the case based on economics alone. Economics matters of course, but people ultimately make these decisions long term on where they feel their allegiance lies. But the big unionist parties have always been scared to do so, because they're all Europhiles and a proud British identity would get in the way of that. The result has been a precipitous drop off in British identity in Scotland.

I actually think, following a no vote, we'll have one last chance to resurrect British nationhood in the eyes of people across this island. But we'll need politicians who actually believe in it, rather than the current careerist, poll-focused muppets we currently have in there.

Here's a clip of Farage from a few years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gm9q8uabTs

Just watching it, you can see he passionately believes in something, follows the issues in depth because of his care for them, and is worried great harm will come to people if his warnings aren't heeded. When do you ever feel that listening to polished spads like Clegg, Cameron and Miliband?

Honestly Socrates, I don't feel that watching that Farage clip. I watch it and I see someone believing he needs to be on a youtube video and is worried about going viral.

Perhaps my preferences are biasing your judgment, or yours are biasing yours.

IOS

Sean

To be fair it isn't Nicks job to know. He has a task in winning his own seat. If you asked him how much campaigning he did - especially relative to his opponent - I am sure you would see he is winning the ground war.

Socrates

SeanT said:

It's not unfortunate, it is insane - absurdly self-harming from Labour.

To be fair, some lefties are beginning to understand what YES means for Labour:

http://labourlist.org/2014/03/the-labour-party-is-calm-it-should-be-deeply-anxious/

But then, look at the comments underneath: all about the euros, nothing about indyref. That's the problem, the Labour movement at large still doesn't believe, or doesn't want to believe, that there is a large fire in their garden shed which could burn down the entire house.

That's to be expected though. When has the Labour Party ever been prudent about the long term dangers of their policies? Did they worry about breaking their own fiscal rules time and time again to fund above market salaries among key constituencies in the public services? Did they express any concern about the realities of trying to build a nation state in a Middle Eastern despotate ridden with ethinic and religious division? Do they pay any attention to energy experts and their warnings about new investment in the sector when they mandate bills can't go up? Did they stop to look at racking up of private debt faster than any other G8 economy during their time in power? Did they even pause to consider when Eurosceptics warned that forcing very different economies into a single currency could cause serious financial crisis and permanent depression? Did they wonder whether there might be any downsides to mass immigration of millions of people from very different cultures, and what it might do to our social fabric and national solidarity?

Labour do not think long term because it's not in their ideology to. They love things that sound generous, and international, and diverse, and trendy at a superficial level. Stopping to think, and looking at past experiences carefully, and being cautious about change are fuddy duddy conservative things to roll their eyes at.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. K, I'd be significantly surprised if that occurred. Still, if you're confident you could probably get cracking odds for such an outcome.

Speaking of that sort of thing, a future bet to consider is Red Bull to win in Monaco. The preceding Spanish Grand Prix will be of some use, as the third sector often indicates a car that goes well in Monte Carlo. The Red Bull appears to be pretty short-geared, which should help in places like Monaco and Singapore.

No odds up yet, of course, but something to keep in mind.

kle4

SeanT said:

kle4 said:

Stark_Dawning said:

FTP:

SeanT said:

And finally, perhaps most importantly, 3: Labour need to get off their butts and go knocking on humble doors, day after day, in Govan and the Gorbals, scaring the bejasus out of Labour voters as to their future benefits, tax credits and pensions, with an impoverished indy Scotland facing declining oil revenues.

Absolutely. I've been appalled by Labour's dismal effort in this campaign - a shambolic disgrace. We were assured that Labour's 'mass membership' is poised to launch an irresistible 'ground war' throughout the length and breadth of the country. This campaign has exposed that as a hollow mockery. Labour have become fat, lacklustre and indifferent. If Labour repeats these insipid efforts in 2015 Dave will be getting a landslide.

It is unfortunate that they appear to care more about securing a majority in 2015 through calculated caution, which they can do with England and Wales alone, though it makes it harder, than putting in effort to make that majority easier by guaranteeing Scotland will remain a part of the UK.

There should be so much effort being put in that its effect should be noticable even to those not on the ground in Scotland, as the SNP's messaging is. We're just not seeing that from Labour.

It's not unfortunate, it is insane - absurdly self-harming from Labour.

To be fair, some lefties are beginning to understand what YES means for Labour:

http://labourlist.org/2014/03/the-labour-party-is-calm-it-should-be-deeply-anxious/

But then, look at the comments underneath: all about the euros, nothing about indyref. That's the problem, the Labour movement at large still doesn't believe, or doesn't want to believe, that there is a large fire in their garden shed which could burn down the entire house.

Part of me does wonder if, in addition to the complacency that Scotland is their heartland and thus safe, it is the fact that it is Tories, of the two big parties, who are most obviously and openly anxious about the potential breakup of the UK (although it is true some Tories, giving up on electoral success in Scotland, have apparently forgotten the second part of their party name and so don't see preserving the Union as important) that is leading some Labour supproters to not give credence to the very real possibility (I would personally say likelihood) of the Yes side winning because they are instinctively dismissive of Tory opinions. 'Oh, SeanT of the Telegraph thinks we need to do more or Scotland is lost? Bloody right wingers don't know anything about Scotland, it's all in hand'.

Granted, there are senior Labour people arguing the case, but the party itself is clearly not engaged as of yet, though I hope that changes.

Morris_Dancer

Quite so, Mr. Socrates.

kle4

IOS said:

mmmm

Can't really post everything on here but, while I expect the Nats to have campaigned hard, I don't understand where the implication that Labour and or other groups haven't.

It's the perception. Perhaps that is not the reality, but even as someone not in Scotland and without a day to day knowledge of the politics there, I am left in no doubt that the SNP and other Yes supporters have been pushing their message hard for a long time. With Labour, it is not obvious to me that they have been doing the same.

Now, it is not their job to reach me, but I still think that if they were putting in the effort and committment required to win this fight, such would filter down to the general reporting of that debate, it would be a part of the amorphous mass that is the narrative.

Stuart_Dickson

Ladbrokes - Ynys Môn (Lab maj = 2,461)

Lab 1/4
PC 3/1
Con 25/1
UKIP 100/1
LD 100/1

Tykejohnno

Socrates said:

SeanT said:

It's not unfortunate, it is insane - absurdly self-harming from Labour.

To be fair, some lefties are beginning to understand what YES means for Labour:

http://labourlist.org/2014/03/the-labour-party-is-calm-it-should-be-deeply-anxious/

But then, look at the comments underneath: all about the euros, nothing about indyref. That's the problem, the Labour movement at large still doesn't believe, or doesn't want to believe, that there is a large fire in their garden shed which could burn down the entire house.

That's to be expected though. When has the Labour Party ever been prudent about the long term dangers of their policies? Did they worry about breaking their own fiscal rules time and time again to fund above market salaries among key constituencies in the public services? Did they express any concern about the realities of trying to build a nation state in a Middle Eastern despotate ridden with ethinic and religious division? Do they pay any attention to energy experts and their warnings about new investment in the sector when they mandate bills can't go up? Did they stop to look at racking up of private debt faster than any other G8 economy during their time in power? Did they even pause to consider when Eurosceptics warned that forcing very different economies into a single currency could cause serious financial crisis and permanent depression? Did they wonder whether there might be any downsides to mass immigration of millions of people from very different cultures, and what it might do to our social fabric and national solidarity?

Labour do not think long term because it's not in their ideology to. They love things that sound generous, and international, and diverse, and trendy at a superficial level. Stopping to think, and looking at past experiences carefully, and being cautious about change are fuddy duddy conservative things to roll their eyes at.

Top post.

Stark_Dawning

SeanT said:

Get up there Palmer

I agree with that! Labour has been too cautious about keeping its English stars out of Scottish referendum matters - spooked no doubt by SNP taunts of English imperialism. In doing so the unionists are depriving themselves of some of their most formidable performers. Nick would be a massive fillip for Better Together - a secret weapon. Look, the man even had swathes of Tories campaigning for him in Broxtowe last time. Salmond and co. would would be eaten alive!

Mick_Pork

kle4 said:

With Labour, it is not obvious to me that they have been doing the same.

You missed little Ed's currency 'triumph'? Oh that's right, it was Osbrowne and it was cheered on here by the most amusing usual suspects and mockneys now shrieking away.

Gertcha! Jellied eels.

*chortle*

Stuart_Dickson

Albert Watson backs independence.

http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/arts/news/top-scots-photographer-set-for-independence-debate-1-3369616

HYUFD

Fascinating comments by ex LD minister Jeremy Browne today. Browne is a classical liberal, ie economically and socially liberal, as opposed to a social democrat (many of whom have rejoined Labour anyway). On economic matters he supports lower taxes and lower spending, and more choice in public services, including health insurance, putting him to Cameron's right and close to UKIP. However, on social matters he backs gay marriage, immigration, and a strong civil liberties agenda, including potentially decriminilisation of drugs, and as an internationalist he supports the EU and the UK and action on climate change, on these areas he is to the left of Miliband and closer to the Greens

Alanbrooke

Somebody's got a sense of humour at the Irish state visit


"Finally, for dessert, guests will have a vanilla ice cream bombe "

http://www.independent.ie/blog/queen-we-will-remember-our-past-but-we-shall-no-longer-allow-our-past-to-ensnare-our-future-30167600.html

Alanbrooke

SeanT said:

Stuart_Dickson said:

Albert Watson backs independence.

http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/arts/news/top-scots-photographer-set-for-independence-debate-1-3369616

F*cking hell. Albert Watson has come out for YES???

Sod it. This is over.

Come on guys. Let's fold our tents. Britain is finished. Albert Watson has spoke.

I've seen some of his wedding shots, really hot stuff.

He also does family portraits and schools.

Tykejohnno

Mick_Pork said:

kle4 said:

With Labour, it is not obvious to me that they have been doing the same.

You missed little Ed's currency 'triumph'? Oh that's right, it was Osbrowne and it was cheered on here by the most amusing usual suspects and mockneys now shrieking away.

Gertcha! Jellied eels.

*chortle*

The best one was Jackie Baillie at a conservative luncheon to give a speech - lol

kle4

HYUFD said:

Fascinating comments by ex LD minister Jeremy Browne today. Browne is a classical liberal, ie economically and socially liberal, as opposed to a social democrat (many of whom have rejoined Labour anyway). On economic matters he supports lower taxes and lower spending, and more choice in public services, including health insurance, putting him to Cameron's right and close to UKIP. However, on social matters he backs gay marriage, immigration, and a strong civil liberties agenda, including potentially decriminilisation of drugs, and as an internationalist he supports the EU and the UK and action on climate change, on these areas he is to the left of Miliband and closer to the Greens

Sounds like a good man. It doesn't sound like there is really a party in which he would feel entirely comfortable however.

Stark_Dawning

SeanT said:

Stuart_Dickson said:

Albert Watson backs independence.

http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/arts/news/top-scots-photographer-set-for-independence-debate-1-3369616

F*cking hell. Albert Watson has come out for YES???

Sod it. This is over.

Come on guys. Let's fold our tents. Britain is finished. Albert Watson has spoke.

'Watson, who has lived in the United States for more than 40 years, has agreed to take part in a debate before a 100-strong audience at the Lower Eastside Club, in Manhattan.'

Yes, well I think that says it all.

AramintaMoonbeamQC

NickPalmer said:

As a matter of interest, how much door-to-door canvassing really is going on in the Scottish referendum? Will an average voter in Edinburgh have been visited yet? What about in villages?

Huge amounts. Radical Indy/Yes Scotland are out in the central belt midweek and then a mass canvass on Saturdays. Once a month Yes Scotland have a 'super Saturday' where they take 150+ canvassers and target traditional Labour voting areas. I work in the Borders and there are nightly public meetings in different areas - people want to talk. BT's solution to this has been to refuse to provide candidates to try and stop meetings going ahead.

Having said that, I'm in a (slightly) more affluent area of Edinburgh and I've seen nothing of BT or YS. 6 months to go, though and I'm on the electoral register. The GOTV operation at the moment is aimed at low turnout areas and getting electoral registration forms completed.

You should be worried. Where are your people? You are handing this to YS on a plate. George Robertson hectoring from a platform miles away is not the solution.

Tykejohnno

SeanT said:

Stuart_Dickson said:

Albert Watson backs independence.

http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/arts/news/top-scots-photographer-set-for-independence-debate-1-3369616

F*cking hell. Albert Watson has come out for YES???

Sod it. This is over.

Come on guys. Let's fold our tents. Britain is finished. Albert Watson has spoke.

Britain is finished,long live a free democratic England ;-)

Mick_Pork

Tykejohnno said:

Mick_Pork said:

kle4 said:

With Labour, it is not obvious to me that they have been doing the same.

You missed little Ed's currency 'triumph'? Oh that's right, it was Osbrowne and it was cheered on here by the most amusing usual suspects and mockneys now shrieking away.

Gertcha! Jellied eels.

*chortle*

The best one was Jackie Baillie at a conservative luncheon to give a speech - lol

That was good but this one was far, far better. (together) LOL

'We love you Darling'

ALISTAIR Darling received a standing ovation from Scottish Conservative activists yesterday – to the SNP's delight and the former Labour chancellor's apparent embarrassment.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/we-love-you-darling.21286260

Stuart_Dickson

kle4 said:

SeanT said:

kle4 said:

Stark_Dawning said:

FTP:

SeanT said:

SNIP

SNIP

It is unfortunate that they appear to care more about securing a majority in 2015 through calculated caution, which they can do with England and Wales alone, though it makes it harder, than putting in effort to make that majority easier by guaranteeing Scotland will remain a part of the UK.

There should be so much effort being put in that its effect should be noticable even to those not on the ground in Scotland, as the SNP's messaging is. We're just not seeing that from Labour.

It's not unfortunate, it is insane - absurdly self-harming from Labour.

To be fair, some lefties are beginning to understand what YES means for Labour:

http://labourlist.org/2014/03/the-labour-party-is-calm-it-should-be-deeply-anxious/

But then, look at the comments underneath: all about the euros, nothing about indyref. That's the problem, the Labour movement at large still doesn't believe, or doesn't want to believe, that there is a large fire in their garden shed which could burn down the entire house.

Part of me does wonder if, in addition to the complacency that Scotland is their heartland and thus safe, it is the fact that it is Tories, of the two big parties, who are most obviously and openly anxious about the potential breakup of the UK (although it is true some Tories, giving up on electoral success in Scotland, have apparently forgotten the second part of their party name and so don't see preserving the Union as important) that is leading some Labour supproters to not give credence to the very real possibility (I would personally say likelihood) of the Yes side winning because they are instinctively dismissive of Tory opinions. 'Oh, SeanT of the Telegraph thinks we need to do more or Scotland is lost? Bloody right wingers don't know anything about Scotland, it's all in hand'.

Granted, there are senior Labour people arguing the case, but the party itself is clearly not engaged as of yet, though I hope that changes.

Far too late for that. If BT had wanted to motivate Labour and trade union footsoldiers to get out and knock doors they would need to have got them going last year. They just haven't got the time or the bodies now.

There is something BT could still do that would make me very, very happy indeed, but for obvious reasons I'm not going to mention it. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.

TheScreamingEagles

Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics now

YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead up one to four points: CON 33%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 13%

Tykejohnno

Mick_Pork said:

Tykejohnno said:

Mick_Pork said:

kle4 said:

With Labour, it is not obvious to me that they have been doing the same.

You missed little Ed's currency 'triumph'? Oh that's right, it was Osbrowne and it was cheered on here by the most amusing usual suspects and mockneys now shrieking away.

Gertcha! Jellied eels.

*chortle*

The best one was Jackie Baillie at a conservative luncheon to give a speech - lol

That was good but this one was far, far better. (together) LOL

'We love you Darling'

ALISTAIR Darling received a standing ovation from Scottish Conservative activists yesterday – to the SNP's delight and the former Labour chancellor's apparent embarrassment.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/we-love-you-darling.21286260

LOL

Stuart_Dickson

Mick_Pork said:

Tykejohnno said:

Mick_Pork said:

kle4 said:

With Labour, it is not obvious to me that they have been doing the same.

You missed little Ed's currency 'triumph'? Oh that's right, it was Osbrowne and it was cheered on here by the most amusing usual suspects and mockneys now shrieking away.

Gertcha! Jellied eels.

*chortle*

The best one was Jackie Baillie at a conservative luncheon to give a speech - lol

That was good but this one was far, far better. (together) LOL

'We love you Darling'

ALISTAIR Darling received a standing ovation from Scottish Conservative activists yesterday – to the SNP's delight and the former Labour chancellor's apparent embarrassment.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/we-love-you-darling.21286260

That was my favourite moment of the campaign to date.

IOS

Again - I think this is a perception issue.

Labour has been throwing loads at the election. It will be the ground war that decides it though. But we shall see.

compouter2

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics now

YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead up one to four points: CON 33%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 13%

Send for Basil and his mates. Let's discus the shape of washing up bottles from 1921 to 1923.

Easterross

Evening all and just catching up.

On Sean T's point, I should not insult my fellow countrymen but sadly a great many are "thick" and believe anything Eck says including that his money trees are more fruitful than those of the 2 Eds. He has already promised to abolish the "bedroom tax" and is currently using Scottish tax receipts to subsidise councils to prevent it. He is promising all sorts of benefits English people don't get and he is believed.

On Rod' point about Peers, anyone appointed to the Peerage since 1800 holds a UK Peerage. Queen Anne was the last monarch to grant Scottish Peerages. Accordingly we already have had several Life Peers sit in Holyrood as MSPs. Baroness Bella is currently there on the Tory team as was Lord James Douglas-Hamilton aka the Earl of Selkirk aka Lord Selkirk of Douglas to use his courtesy, hereditary and life peerages. Lord Watson of Invergowrie, the Labour peer also sat as an MSP.

Life Peers cannot sit in the House of Commons but they can sit in any of the other UK legislatures as far as I know.

I would expect a great many Scots would elect to apply for Scottish passports AND keep their British citizenship. Apart from anything it would mean they would remain EU 'citizens'. There would be nothing to stop any of us holding joint nationality.

Tykejohnno

IOS said:

Again - I think this is a perception issue.

Labour has been throwing loads at the election. It will be the ground war that decides it though. But we shall see.

'Chortle'

HYUFD

One left-winger who is campaigning hard for the union is George Galloway, who is holding meetings across Scotland. Darling is a good behind the scenes man, but Galloway has the charisma he lacks and would be a better spokesman for the BOT campaign. A Galloway v Salmond debate would be explosive!

HYUFD

kle4 He is basically a true Liberal, if the Liberals got rid of their social democrat wing he would be a good leader

IOS

Why Chortle Tyke?

NickPalmer

Enjoying Sean in Muswell Hill urging me in Islington/Nottingham to rush up to Scotland. I helped in a couple of by-elections in Glasgow and Glenrothes, and i'd go if asked, but as IOS says I've a different battle to concentrate on at the moment. Why don't you go up there, Sean?

Interesting that the YGs over the last two days and Populus have shown Labour much as usual, and the Tories likewise - the press assault on Miller doesn't seem to be hurting them at all. I suspect that most people merely see her as installment 37 of a saga they're bored with. But it does suggest that the press is something of a busted flush.

JohnO

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics now

YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead up one to four points: CON 33%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 13%

Do you know when ICM is due?

HYUFD

A good state visit from the Irish president today too

Eh_ehm_a_eh

SeanT said:

NickPalmer said:

As a matter of interest, how much door-to-door canvassing really is going on in the Scottish referendum? Will an average voter in Edinburgh have been visited yet? What about in villages?

HOW CAN YOU NOT KNOW THIS? This is why you are about to lose your heartland.

As plenty of Nats on here have said, they've got streets they have already canvassed three or four times already, which have yet to be touched by SLAB and BT.

You're losing the ground war.

Get up there Palmer, and do at least one decent thing for this country, which has afforded you a lucrative career, even if you prefer Switzerland.

Hi, i'm Nick Palmer former MP for Broxtowe. You may not have heard of me, but i took home over a cool million from my time as voting fodder for New Labour. Can i persuade you to vote no and give me and my fellow gravy train riders the chance to fill our pockets again?

That should do it.

TheScreamingEagles

JohnO said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics now

YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead up one to four points: CON 33%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 13%

Do you know when ICM is due?

Start of next week. They are doing the fieldwork this weekend.

compouter2

Miller getting a good funnelling by the news report on ITV News. Unlucky for Maria' there is no Tom Brady to defend her.

Alanbrooke

NickPalmer said:

Enjoying Sean in Muswell Hill urging me in Islington/Nottingham to rush up to Scotland. I helped in a couple of by-elections in Glasgow and Glenrothes, and i'd go if asked, but as IOS says I've a different battle to concentrate on at the moment. Why don't you go up there, Sean?

Interesting that the YGs over the last two days and Populus have shown Labour much as usual, and the Tories likewise - the press assault on Miller doesn't seem to be hurting them at all. I suspect that most people merely see her as installment 37 of a saga they're bored with. But it does suggest that the press is something of a busted flush.

So what actually is your position on Indy then Nick - yes, no, please don't ask me ?

Socrates

corporeal said:

Honestly Socrates, I don't feel that watching that Farage clip. I watch it and I see someone believing he needs to be on a youtube video and is worried about going viral.

Perhaps my preferences are biasing your judgment, or yours are biasing yours.

Oh come off it. There are clearly Farage clips where he's going for that, but this isn't one of them. Especially as he gets into it on the interference of the EU in Irish elections. That's clearly a man that is genuinely angry about this stuff.

Stuart_Dickson

HYUFD said:

One left-winger who is campaigning hard for the union is George Galloway, who is holding meetings across Scotland. Darling is a good behind the scenes man, but Galloway has the charisma he lacks and would be a better spokesman for the BOT campaign. A Galloway v Salmond debate would be explosive!

Would that be the same G. Galloway that got 3% of the vote in Glasgow in 2011? During the same election where A. Salmond's party won an overall majority?

I thought I remembered the name. After his humiliating defeat did he not turn up in Birmingham, or Burnley, or Broadmoor? Somewhere with a B anyway.

Tykejohnno

HYUFD said:

One left-winger who is campaigning hard for the union is George Galloway, who is holding meetings across Scotland. Darling is a good behind the scenes man, but Galloway has the charisma he lacks and would be a better spokesman for the BOT campaign. A Galloway v Salmond debate would be explosive!

Galloway is a joke,as someone who lives in the Constituency he represents, I hope labour take's it back,the man talks a big game and delivers hot air.

When I see him give a speech in parliament,they should be a Constituency called the middle east,that's all I hear,bradford west forgotten.

kle4

Eh_ehm_a_eh said:

SeanT said:

NickPalmer said:

As a matter of interest, how much door-to-door canvassing really is going on in the Scottish referendum? Will an average voter in Edinburgh have been visited yet? What about in villages?

HOW CAN YOU NOT KNOW THIS? This is why you are about to lose your heartland.

As plenty of Nats on here have said, they've got streets they have already canvassed three or four times already, which have yet to be touched by SLAB and BT.

You're losing the ground war.

Get up there Palmer, and do at least one decent thing for this country, which has afforded you a lucrative career, even if you prefer Switzerland.

Hi, i'm Nick Palmer former MP for Broxtowe. You may not have heard of me, but i took home over a cool million from my time as voting fodder for New Labour. Can i persuade you to vote no and give me and my fellow gravy train riders the chance to fill our pockets again?

That should do it.

Purely from his comments on here I would trust that Mr Palmer to be an effective campaigner for any issue he set his mind to, but really it's a numbers game I think - some really good campaigners would certainly be nice, but Labour should be able to marshall an army of supporters in its heartland and I hope they do.

Theuniondivvie

SeanT said:

Pfft. There is still time - and quite a lot of time - six months. This referendum will be won or lost in the last three months, i.e. the summer, and then early September, the traditional beginning of the Scottish winter.

Labour have time to motivate and get out there. But they need to start spending money and energy NOW.

5 months and 10 days actually.
Of course there's time, but only if there's also money and enthusiasm and people on the ground, and above all, a plan. Honestly, have any of the pronouncements of Darling, Brown, Robertson, Miliband et al suggested to you that these things are waiting in the wings?

Theuniondivvie

Stuart_Dickson said:

There is something BT could still do that would make me very, very happy indeed, but for obvious reasons I'm not going to mention it. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.

T*** B****?

AramintaMoonbeamQC

HYUFD said:

One left-winger who is campaigning hard for the union is George Galloway, who is holding meetings across Scotland. Darling is a good behind the scenes man, but Galloway has the charisma he lacks and would be a better spokesman for the BOT campaign. A Galloway v Salmond debate would be explosive!

Galloway has been getting about, I agree. However, the canvassers are not there on the ground. Some are sitting it out, disillusioned already with the lack of strategy from BT or angry about policy direction of the Labour Party. Some have gone over to Radical Indy, as they are for a Yes vote. Those that remain are not being organised in the way that YS are managing.

This is one of the reasons SLab tanked at Holyrood 2007 and 2011, but no one appears to have learned a thing.

The unwillingness of anyone to get off their backside and debate doesn't send the right message either. Cameron can't win and he knows it - if he comes up, people will be rubbed up the wrong way by his general demeanour and if he doesn't he looks feart or arrogant.

Stuart_Dickson

SeanT said:

HYUFD said:

One left-winger who is campaigning hard for the union is George Galloway, who is holding meetings across Scotland. Darling is a good behind the scenes man, but Galloway has the charisma he lacks and would be a better spokesman for the BOT campaign. A Galloway v Salmond debate would be explosive!

I saw George Galloway on Regent's Park Road last night, heading for Limonia restaurant. He was wearing a dark coat, a dark Fedora, and he was accompanied by a homely yet - if you have the taste - mildly sexy south-east Asian lady in her late 30s. He looked stooped and exhausted, yet still mildly menacing, and given his attire and demeanour, he reminded me of one of the older gangsters from the Sopranos.

The man is a gangster. Quite literally.

JohnO

TheScreamingEagles said:

JohnO said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics now

YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead up one to four points: CON 33%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 13%

Do you know when ICM is due?

Start of next week. They are doing the fieldwork this weekend.

Thanks. IIRC last month's poll only had Labour with a 3% lead and that was pre-budget. Will be interesting whether it records any lingering bounce now?

Alanbrooke

Stuart_Dickson said:

HYUFD said:

One left-winger who is campaigning hard for the union is George Galloway, who is holding meetings across Scotland. Darling is a good behind the scenes man, but Galloway has the charisma he lacks and would be a better spokesman for the BOT campaign. A Galloway v Salmond debate would be explosive!

Would that be the same G. Galloway that got 3% of the vote in Glasgow in 2011? During the same election where A. Salmond's party won an overall majority?

I thought I remembered the name. After his humiliating defeat did he not turn up in Birmingham, or Burnley, or Broadmoor? Somewhere with a B anyway.

Bath, it's a scotmagnet.

Easterross

There is a great deal of campaigning being done by both sides. The difference is that the YES campaign is basically one party with a few others like the Greens so there is clear direction. They have groups in virtually every town and umpteen in the cities. They are well funded in part courtesy of 3x £1m donations.

On the BT side, although there is some joint activity, the unionist parties are basically doing their own thing. I am aware of some Labour people working very hard but their commitment has been undermined by people like Gordon Brown putting his visceral hatred of all things Tory first and suggesting Labour should run its own organisation separate from BT.

The Scots Tories have groups working across the country, heavily manned by the youngsters from the various University Tory Associations and branches of CFS the new name for Scottish Young Conservatives. As the Tory vote in Scotland is pretty universally against independence, much of the Tory campaigning is being conducted in areas where we have been strong in the past, building up again a presence which will be invaluable for the GOTV in 2015 and 2016. I haven't seen so many active young conservatives in Scotland since the likes of Jackson Carlaw, Liam Fox and I were all SYC officers in the 1970s and early 1980s.

Mick_Pork

Theuniondivvie said:

Stuart_Dickson said:

There is something BT could still do that would make me very, very happy indeed, but for obvious reasons I'm not going to mention it. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.

T*** B****?

ROFL

Well played sir, well played indeed.

TheScreamingEagles

JohnO said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

JohnO said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics now

YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead up one to four points: CON 33%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 13%

Do you know when ICM is due?

Start of next week. They are doing the fieldwork this weekend.

Thanks. IIRC last month's poll only had Labour with a 3% lead and that was pre-budget. Will be interesting whether it records any lingering bounce now?

My own hunch is that the lead will widen as we approach the Euros and UKIP take some votes from the Blues.

Stuart_Dickson

AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

HYUFD said:

One left-winger who is campaigning hard for the union is George Galloway, who is holding meetings across Scotland. Darling is a good behind the scenes man, but Galloway has the charisma he lacks and would be a better spokesman for the BOT campaign. A Galloway v Salmond debate would be explosive!

Galloway has been getting about, I agree. However, the canvassers are not there on the ground. Some are sitting it out, disillusioned already with the lack of strategy from BT or angry about policy direction of the Labour Party. Some have gone over to Radical Indy, as they are for a Yes vote. Those that remain are not being organised in the way that YS are managing.

This is one of the reasons SLab tanked at Holyrood 2007 and 2011, but no one appears to have learned a thing.

The unwillingness of anyone to get off their backside and debate doesn't send the right message either. Cameron can't win and he knows it - if he comes up, people will be rubbed up the wrong way by his general demeanour and if he doesn't he looks feart or arrogant.

Some SLabbers are willing to get off their backsides and debate, but it is the wrong ones. I have seen very few contributions from sensible, respected Unionists. There are plenty of them out there but they have almost all been invisible. I won't name them as I don't want to see any of them popping up.

I suspect that they know which way the wind is blowing and are preparing for the new opportunities post-Yes.

HYUFD

SeanT Indeed, but he has the oratory, the guile and the ruthless cunning to take the fight to Salmond, the only problem is, if they did debate together, would you be able to fit Galloway and Salmond's egos in the same room?

JohnO

TheScreamingEagles said:

JohnO said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

JohnO said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics now

YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead up one to four points: CON 33%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 13%

Do you know when ICM is due?

Start of next week. They are doing the fieldwork this weekend.

Thanks. IIRC last month's poll only had Labour with a 3% lead and that was pre-budget. Will be interesting whether it records any lingering bounce now?

My own hunch is that the lead will widen as we approach the Euros and UKIP take some votes from the Blues.

Hmm, yep, could be so.

Stuart_Dickson

Theuniondivvie said:

Stuart_Dickson said:

There is something BT could still do that would make me very, very happy indeed, but for obvious reasons I'm not going to mention it. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.

T*** B****?

That is not what I was thinking of, but funnily enough you are on the right track. A TB entrance would be terrific, but what I'm hoping for is 100 times better. It could lead to a real rout for the BritNats. The chances of them doing it are slim, but there are precedents.

HYUFD

Stuart Dickson, Galloway won Glasgow Hillhead off Roy Jenkins, and shock victories against Labour in Bradford and Bethnal Green, don't talk rubbish, yes he is not always successful, but neither have Salmonds election campaigns been successful either (and Salmond leads one of the big 2 parties in Scotland)

perdix

Read another side of the Maria Miller story if you want to have an honest opinion...
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2014/04/06/in-partial-defence-of-maria-miller/

nigel4england

SeanT said:

NickPalmer said:

Enjoying Sean in Muswell Hill urging me in Islington/Nottingham to rush up to Scotland. I helped in a couple of by-elections in Glasgow and Glenrothes, and i'd go if asked, but as IOS says I've a different battle to concentrate on at the moment. Why don't you go up there, Sean?

Interesting that the YGs over the last two days and Populus have shown Labour much as usual, and the Tories likewise - the press assault on Miller doesn't seem to be hurting them at all. I suspect that most people merely see her as installment 37 of a saga they're bored with. But it does suggest that the press is something of a busted flush.

I'm trying to save Britain by writing Telegraph blogs (for which, trust me, I am not paid an MP's wage). You, it seems, are doing ABSOLUTELY F*CK ALL except look after your own interest and career.

But why should I be surprised. You have already said you possess no special love for this country, you would be just as happy representing Geneva, Amsterdam or Copenhagen, indeed probably happier. So presumably you don't give a toss if Britain is broken up.

I aim to do a blog on you, just before the GE, as a prime example of a New Labour MP seeking re-election 5 years after you ruined the country. Feel free to do the same in reverse.

I couldn't agree more Sean.

This is a man who after the budget made it obvious he has no idea whatsoever how pensions work, but is keen to be re-elected and make laws that we have to obey. I may be wrong but I'm sure he once said his pension from his five year spell in Goverment entitles him to a £20,000 pension, beyond the dreams of people who pay in for life let alone five years.

A pseudo intellectual who knows everything about Scandinavia but fuck all about the UK, but don't forget we are all in this together!

HYUFD

Tyke Salmond is just as much hot air as shown by his ridiculous white paper

Richard_Nabavi

I'm pleased to see TSE's item number 13. Further evidence of good progress under the coalition.

One thing worries me, though: "House of Commons officials revealed that they have spent £275,221 buying in more than 25,000 bottles of champagne since the coalition took over in May 2010"

What ARE they buying at an average of £11 a bottle (wholesale)? Certainly not Taittinger, as shown in the photo.

Edit: Ooops, I see the HuffPost doesn't know what Champagne is, and has probably transgressed against some EU Appellation Controllee law.

AramintaMoonbeamQC

Stuart_Dickson said:

AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

HYUFD said:

One left-winger who is campaigning hard for the union is George Galloway, who is holding meetings across Scotland. Darling is a good behind the scenes man, but Galloway has the charisma he lacks and would be a better spokesman for the BOT campaign. A Galloway v Salmond debate would be explosive!

Galloway has been getting about, I agree. However, the canvassers are not there on the ground. Some are sitting it out, disillusioned already with the lack of strategy from BT or angry about policy direction of the Labour Party. Some have gone over to Radical Indy, as they are for a Yes vote. Those that remain are not being organised in the way that YS are managing.

This is one of the reasons SLab tanked at Holyrood 2007 and 2011, but no one appears to have learned a thing.

The unwillingness of anyone to get off their backside and debate doesn't send the right message either. Cameron can't win and he knows it - if he comes up, people will be rubbed up the wrong way by his general demeanour and if he doesn't he looks feart or arrogant.

Some SLabbers are willing to get off their backsides and debate, but it is the wrong ones. I have seen very few contributions from sensible, respected Unionists. There are plenty of them out there but they have almost all been invisible. I won't name them as I don't want to see any of them popping up.

I suspect that they know which way the wind is blowing and are preparing for the new opportunities post-Yes.

Johann? We've had quite enough of her thanks. No real big hitters have put their back into it. John Reid or similar might hold some sway but I assume petty internal Labour divisions are preventing this. Or he's not bothered.

corporeal

Socrates said:

corporeal said:

Honestly Socrates, I don't feel that watching that Farage clip. I watch it and I see someone believing he needs to be on a youtube video and is worried about going viral.

Perhaps my preferences are biasing your judgment, or yours are biasing yours.

Oh come off it. There are clearly Farage clips where he's going for that, but this isn't one of them. Especially as he gets into it on the interference of the EU in Irish elections. That's clearly a man that is genuinely angry about this stuff.

*shrugs* I don't find Farage more passionate than say Clegg, less polished at times sure but that's a different thing.

It wasn't as bad as him just insulting Rumpuy but I'm not watching that and thinking "wow he's different to the others" or anything like that.

If I think of Farage the image is him (with or without the infamous pint in hand) laughing too loudly at one of his own jokes.

Stuart_Dickson

corporeal said:

Socrates said:

corporeal said:

Honestly Socrates, I don't feel that watching that Farage clip. I watch it and I see someone believing he needs to be on a youtube video and is worried about going viral.

Perhaps my preferences are biasing your judgment, or yours are biasing yours.

Oh come off it. There are clearly Farage clips where he's going for that, but this isn't one of them. Especially as he gets into it on the interference of the EU in Irish elections. That's clearly a man that is genuinely angry about this stuff.

*shrugs* I don't find Farage more passionate than say Clegg, less polished at times sure but that's a different thing.

And if I think of Farage the image is him (with or without the infamous pint in hand) laughing too loudly at one of his own jokes.

Ooh. Look at 'er!

Scott_P

@bbclaurak: In a few mins - Andrew Lansley defends Maria Miller on #newsnight

Freggles

Stuart_Dickson said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Stuart_Dickson said:

There is something BT could still do that would make me very, very happy indeed, but for obvious reasons I'm not going to mention it. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.

T*** B****?

That is not what I was thinking of, but funnily enough you are on the right track. A TB entrance would be terrific, but what I'm hoping for is 100 times better. It could lead to a real rout for the BritNats. The chances of them doing it are slim, but there are precedents.

Elvis impersonator?

Asda photoshoot?

Obama ?!?

HYUFD

A BoT campaigner is shown here canvassing in Glasgow in an otherwise gloomy article for NO, so there must be some ground war activity going on
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/23/scottish-referendum-nats-independence

HYUFD

Personally, I hope there is a mass Union rally a week or so before the vote as happened in Quebec in 1995 when 100,000 Canadians flocked to the province, it may have tipped the balance in a race which ended 51-49 against Quebec independence

Mick_Pork

AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

but I assume petty internal Labour divisions are preventing this

Nail. Head.

What our excitable mockney and his chums doesn't realise is that there is a schism in SLAB which is being fuelled by the ever present division between the referendum and the 2015 GE. It's getting pretty close to open warfare now with the scottish MPs and the SLAB MSPs often totally at odds with each other as both view the referendum from an entirely different set of priorities. The reason Darling looks so panicked is that he has no lifeboat and is slowly beginning to realise that plaudits of an out of touch westminster media is very far from being 'proof' of his effectiveness while little Ed looks far from being grateful for his 'efforts'. Lamont on the other hand remembers full well the chaos that enveloped SLAB after 2011 as well as how SLAB were made the fall guys for following little Ed's negative strategy. The MSPs burning the lifeboats for the next scottish elections spoke volumes. That's just inside labour. You then add the all the other 'better together' elements who either can't stand the tories, the lib dems or little Ed and it's an explosive mix.

Easterross

Sorry Sean I didn't see your Telegraph article about the Indy Ref. Our village shop only stocks it if it is ordered and across Scotland hardly anyone outside the New Town in Edinburgh and Nelson Mandela Place in Glasgow reads it. Our main paper, the Press and Journal is only bought by most people to check who has died since yesterday and whether Mrs McClumpha has won the Drumnadrochit Women's Guild baking competition for the 300th year in succession.

BBC Scotland as the leading media organ of the Scottish Labour Party is doing its best to rubbish the YES campaign but frankly its best is pretty poor.

Many of us PB Scots have said it will be the Scottish Labour Party which hands independence to the YES campaign simply because it is being deserted by its traditional voters in droves. Johann frae Pollok the leaderene of SLAB is almost invisible except when she and Wee Nippy Sweetie Sturgeon are balling and shouting at one another during so called TV debates. The fact that the Shadow Scottish Secretary is the equally ghastly Margaret Curran doesn't help.

I just don't believe anyone in the Scottish Labour establishment including their placed men/women in the Scottish media has actually contemplated anything other than a resounding No. It is 1998 and 2011 all over again.

Incidentally Stuart if you are still around, I understand an old Tory mate of mine is Deputy Head of your old Alma Mater. You did go to SM didn't you?

fitalass

Twitter
Laura Kuenssberg ‏@bbclaurak 3h
Source tells me if Police Fed members had publicly treated chairman like they did in private they'd be arrested for public order offences

Channel 4 News ‏@Channel4News 1h
'I was cruelly bullied,' says Police Federation chair. @paraicobrien has the latest for #c4news. Watch: http://bit.ly/1ir3GRt

Stuart_Dickson

HYUFD said:

Stuart Dickson, Galloway won Glasgow Hillhead off Roy Jenkins, and shock victories against Labour in Bradford and Bethnal Green, don't talk rubbish, yes he is not always successful, but neither have Salmonds election campaigns been successful either (and Salmond leads one of the big 2 parties in Scotland)

Fun to see all the Tory fans of Gangster George coming out the woodwork. It is indicative of the woeful lack of talent on the BritNat benches.

corporeal

Stuart_Dickson said:

corporeal said:

Socrates said:

corporeal said:

Honestly Socrates, I don't feel that watching that Farage clip. I watch it and I see someone believing he needs to be on a youtube video and is worried about going viral.

Perhaps my preferences are biasing your judgment, or yours are biasing yours.

Oh come off it. There are clearly Farage clips where he's going for that, but this isn't one of them. Especially as he gets into it on the interference of the EU in Irish elections. That's clearly a man that is genuinely angry about this stuff.

*shrugs* I don't find Farage more passionate than say Clegg, less polished at times sure but that's a different thing.

It wasn't as bad as him just insulting Rumpuy but I'm not watching that and thinking "wow he's different to the others" or anything like that.

And if I think of Farage the image is him (with or without the infamous pint in hand) laughing too loudly at one of his own jokes.

Ooh. Look at 'er!

Eh, I'm sure my biases are playing their role in that view. The whole bloke in the pub thing was something he pushed a fair bit himself.

Stuart_Dickson

Easterross said:

Sorry Sean I didn't see your Telegraph article about the Indy Ref. Our village shop only stocks it if it is ordered and across Scotland hardly anyone outside the New Town in Edinburgh and Nelson Mandela Place in Glasgow reads it. Our main paper, the Press and Journal is only bought by most people to check who has died since yesterday and whether Mrs McClumpha has won the Drumnadrochit Women's Guild baking competition for the 300th year in succession.

BBC Scotland as the leading media organ of the Scottish Labour Party is doing its best to rubbish the YES campaign but frankly its best is pretty poor.

Many of us PB Scots have said it will be the Scottish Labour Party which hands independence to the YES campaign simply because it is being deserted by its traditional voters in droves. Johann frae Pollok the leaderene of SLAB is almost invisible except when she and Wee Nippy Sweetie Sturgeon are balling and shouting at one another during so called TV debates. The fact that the Shadow Scottish Secretary is the equally ghastly Margaret Curran doesn't help.

I just don't believe anyone in the Scottish Labour establishment including their placed men/women in the Scottish media has actually contemplated anything other than a resounding No. It is 1998 and 2011 all over again.

Incidentally Stuart if you are still around, I understand an old Tory mate of mine is Deputy Head of your old Alma Mater. You did go to SM didn't you?

No.

AramintaMoonbeamQC

Easterross said:

The fact that the Shadow Scottish Secretary is the equally ghastly Margaret Curran doesn't help.

She's not all bad, I have very fond memories of her torn face after the Glasgow East by-election declaration. As I logged into BetFair to check my winnings.

She is a horror, though.

Mick_Pork

Stuart_Dickson said:

HYUFD said:

Stuart Dickson, Galloway won Glasgow Hillhead off Roy Jenkins, and shock victories against Labour in Bradford and Bethnal Green, don't talk rubbish, yes he is not always successful, but neither have Salmonds election campaigns been successful either (and Salmond leads one of the big 2 parties in Scotland)

Fun to see all the Tory fans of Gangster George coming out the woodwork. It is indicative of the woeful lack of talent on the BritNat benches.

Fact is there are plenty of outspoken left-wing voices in scotland so Galloway is no rarity here. Galloway will also be hard pushed to convince that many labour voters following his amusing meltdown after trying to get back in favour with little Ed. 'Better together' indeed.

Kate Gilson ‏@kategilson Apr 27

George Galloway wants @Ed_Miliband to be PM Ed: "he might want me to be PM but I don't want him to be an MP!" BOOM! http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22307221 …

But in a tweet, Mr Galloway said: "Miliband's claim that he repeatedly pursued me for a one hour meeting about 'boundary changes' is, quite simply, a lie."

He added: "I realise now that I showed poor judgement in finally agreeing to meet Miliband. An unprincipled coward with the backbone of an amoeba."

It comes after more positive comments from the Respect MP.

On Wednesday he told the London Evening Standard that he found Mr Miliband "quite impressive, physically and intellectually" during an hour long meeting at the Labour leader's offices.

Mr Galloway said the Labour leader had told him "we should do this again".

Stuart_Dickson

Mick_Pork said:

AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

but I assume petty internal Labour divisions are preventing this

Nail. Head.

What our excitable mockney and his chums doesn't realise is that there is a schism in SLAB which is being fuelled by the ever present division between the referendum and the 2015 GE. It's getting pretty close to open warfare now with the scottish MPs and the SLAB MSPs often totally at odds with each other as both view the referendum from an entirely different set of priorities. The reason Darling looks so panicked is that he has no lifeboat and is slowly beginning to realise that plaudits of an out of touch westminster media is very far from being 'proof' of his effectiveness while little Ed looks far from being grateful for his 'efforts'. Lamont on the other hand remembers full well the chaos that enveloped SLAB after 2011 as well as how SLAB were made the fall guys for following little Ed's negative strategy. The MSPs burning the lifeboats for the next scottish elections spoke volumes. That's just inside labour. You then add the all the other 'better together' elements who either can't stand the tories, the lib dems or little Ed and it's an explosive mix.

The mockney is being an unusually useful idiot today. There are lots and lots of things he and his chums don't realise. Which is great for Scotland's chances of winning.

HYUFD

StuartDickson Well Beyond Salmond who do the Nats have? John Swinney makes Alistair Darling look exciting

foxinsoxuk

That would be why he became person non-grata then....

HYUFD said:

Fascinating comments by ex LD minister Jeremy Browne today. Browne is a classical liberal, ie economically and socially liberal, as opposed to a social democrat (many of whom have rejoined Labour anyway). On economic matters he supports lower taxes and lower spending, and more choice in public services, including health insurance, putting him to Cameron's right and close to UKIP. However, on social matters he backs gay marriage, immigration, and a strong civil liberties agenda, including potentially decriminilisation of drugs, and as an internationalist he supports the EU and the UK and action on climate change, on these areas he is to the left of Miliband and closer to the Greens