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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,523

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    As a Yorkshire nipper I also called my parents’ non Muslim friends auntie and uncle too.

    I’m uncle to a lot of the children of my non Muslim friends.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,827
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    Okay fair enough, there may be a wider story here. I was not aware that Israelis had been involved in training American police, and don’t know the scale of such things that did happen.

    It’s fair to say that Mamdani’s connects haven’t gone down well with the average New Yorker though, outside of his base.
    Must have a wide base given that he is a clear leader the polls?
    The comments only came to light yesterday.

    It’s unlikey to be enough to stop him getting elected, as with Corbyn today’s kids who have never experienced actual socialism seem to love him.
    Not sure what counts as actual socialism in your mind but realistically its never been applied in the US, and its general application is well beyond the powers of the New York mayor. He is mostly popular as a reaction to Trump and the failed Democratic establishments opposition to Trump, rather than his own beliefs.
    Mamdani’s manifesto:

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/06/25/zohran-mamdani-platform-policies-issues/84350898007/

    Rent Controls
    Free Buses
    “Hate Violence Prevention Programmes”
    City-owned Grocery Stores
    Free Childcare for U5s
    Removing Schoolyards
    $30 Minimum Wage
    Tax Rises on The Rich and Coprorations
    Non-Co-operation with Federal Police.
    Funny thing is, quite a few MAGAs seem to like socialism.
    A 55-year-old man wearing “MAGA for Mamdani” gear said he voted for Trump twice but now he’s “making a switch” and voting for Mamdani.

    “This’ll be the first time I'm voting for a Democrat,” he said. “I like his policies.”

    https://x.com/GrmelaJulian/status/1982657680985764071

    A mirror image of Labour-Reform switchers ?
    That’s funny, politics can lead to some strange outcomes sometimes.

    There’s definitely a few Trump supporters who are economically left of centre, and probably a few more who like messages about keeping down rents in what’s an expensive city to live.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,827

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,811
    edited 12:38PM
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    @Foxy FPT

    He tried to kiss her, said he wanted to make babies with her and invited her back to his flat.

    I don’t know what world you live in but that’s a long way past the line as far as I am concerned.

    She’s a 14 year old child for goodness sake.

    Yes, I agree, as I made clear in my post.

    It should be dealt with by the police, but is a 12/12 custodial sentence appropriate for such a low level non-violent offence? And one that most teenage girls will have experienced since time immemorial?

    If so, then no wonder our prisons are bursting at the seams.

    Maybe it had to be custodial because of his housing situation, but locking up every lecherous man is just impossible.
    I'd be happy if we could lock up one lecherous man who committed worse acts, and is now President of the United States.
    What we are seeing is culture war applied to everything.

    I find the arguments strange. But then I try not pick a side.

    @Foxy and @Roger are struggling with some BadFacts*. Facts which are Bad because they give ammunition to those they oppose.

    As pointed out, the sentencing guidelines are clear and quite simple. Indeed, the sentencing guidelines are an example of a process that has much to commend it. They are available online, written in normal English and with quite moderate effort, an ordinary person can see the chain of reasoning that leads to a particular sentence.

    *I was introduced to the idea of “Bad Facts” at a corporate seminar on equality. They are facts that are true, but shouldn’t be. Because of their effect on debate.
    So someone actually stood up and said this in front of other people? Were they a comedian?
    No - quite serious.

    An example (in the course) - local African involvement in the slave trade. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efunroye_Tinubu etc.

    I started parroting back the slogans etc in the “exercises” during the course. A Russian colleague, who’d lived under the USSR, commented on the similarity to the political sessions in the military. And that I’d have make a good Zampolit’s Pet. Apparently there was always one guy who would give the “Right” answer…
    This is how I feel about a lot of the stuff that HR makes us do. Recently we've all had to complete our 'Never Ok' training (or refresher). Fine - sum it up to "Don't be a dick" (with thanks to the Last Leg). But the issue is for much of the discourse around the modern world their seems to be one interpretation with is 'correct' and to deviate sees you as an outcast.

    For example climate. Most people understand that man's behaviour is leading to changes in climate. But there is a wide ranging debate in the field about the future. How much warming? How best to mitigate? Is some warming actually an issue? But if you try to debate this, all too often you are labelled a denier.

    Your example is pertinent too. The African slaves didn't migrate to the coast waiting to be picked up by passing ships. They were enslaved by other Africans and sold. But that is not something that is permitted when talking about the slave trade.
    Anyone who knows anything about the save trade knows that African tribes sold prisoners to European and Arab slavers. So I disagree that talking about this is not permitted - if it weren't permitted then nobody would know about it. Of course a more nuanced take is to look at how the presence of slaving ports changed the incentives for warfare and enslavement among the people in the region via the usual mechanism of supply and demand. It's not like the slavers were passive participants who simply turned up at the coast to conveniently take surplus slaves off the locals' hands. But the idea that the role of Africans in the process is some kind of secret is laughable.
    Perhaps I have phrased it poorly. Its the idea that slavery is only a crime perpetuated by whites against blacks that is the accepted facts.
    I don't think those are the accepted facts. The accepted fact I think is that Europeans ran the transatlantic slave trade and owned the slaves and profited from their forced labour. That Africans sold other Africans to Europeans at slave ports is also well known. But once Africans were sold they and their descendents worked for free for Europeans for centuries, and suffered premature death, frequent rape, harsh punishments and were denied normal family life and education while their own cultural practices were suppressed. In such a context I think it's unsurprising that the focus is more on slave owners than on African slave sellers, indeed I would argue it is wholly warranted.
    The other factor is that the Atlantic slave trade took place almost entirely within the context of the Enlightenment which we are led to believe was a very fine thing. I wouldn’t expect your average African chief to be au fait with the principles of liberty, individualism and reason, but perhaps a higher benchmark should be applied to the great and the good of our merchant, political and ruling classes.
    People can rationalise things to a remarkable degree. Freedom is for me, but not for thee. I struggle to understand how a man like Jefferson could see slavery as wrong in principle, but legitimate when he practised it.
    An echo of our climate travails? Burning fossil fuels is bad, but I need to get to work?
    People may have no realistic choice, but to do things that they disapprove of.

    An obvious example is that of the revolutionary socialist who has to earn a living in the marketplace.

    But,, Jefferson did have a choice. He could have done as several other Virginia slaveowners did, and emancipated his slaves, and leased out his estate to them. That would still have generated a solid rental income for him.

    He preferred to hold them as slaves.
    How about Labour politicians who attack private schools but then send their kids there?
    That's more clearly hypocritical, as they have viable alternatives.
    Depends. If they criticise others for doing it whilst doing it themselves, yes. If they argue society would be better without private schools but use one themselves, no. The latter is more akin to a well off person supporting a wealth tax but as long as there isn't one not paying it. That sort of thing isn't hypocrisy. If it were a person of the left would face a bespoke personal bill for their politics which others do not. Hence the popularity of this sentiment on the right. Lefties must pay a price to prove they're authentic but righties are free to maximise their own self-interest. No, screw that for a game of soldiers.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,686
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
    As per my previous Maoist bicycle comment, I have a feeling while righties excite themselves thinking this is a massive gotcha, normal people will see this as a normal thing that lots of normal people do.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,299
    edited 12:41PM

    Roger said:

    Talking of Polanski.......

    There are a bunch of posters on here who think if they take the moral high ground in matters of morality it makes them look noble or even chivalrous. They are all of the right and at least one is a laughable hypocrite........

    .....Some years ago I described Roman Polanski as 'a man more sinned against than sinning',.........

    In brief a couple of girls went to his hacienda and asked him to have sex with them. He obliged and it transpired that despite looking early 20's they they were just 13 or 14. To avoid US jail he escaped to Europe where the laws on under age sex were more lax and he hadn't returned since. I wrote that he was a generational talent and he was a great loss to film making.

    This must be at least ten years ago. But to this day all you need do if you are a rabid right winger is clutch your pealrs to you bosom and mention my name and Polanski and you are guaranteed the approval of at least five or six of your peers.


    That is not an accurate account of what happened.
    In truth I can't remember the detail but I had read his autobiography and that was my impression though I was more intersted in the film making than the rape case. I think he claimed it was a set up between the girl and her mother but I'm very sketchy on the detail.

    (I'm assuming you are talking about the rapew case not my critique of PB's behaviour since?)
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,320
    edited 12:42PM
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    Okay fair enough, there may be a wider story here. I was not aware that Israelis had been involved in training American police, and don’t know the scale of such things that did happen.

    It’s fair to say that Mamdani’s connects haven’t gone down well with the average New Yorker though, outside of his base.
    Must have a wide base given that he is a clear leader the polls?
    The comments only came to light yesterday.

    It’s unlikey to be enough to stop him getting elected, as with Corbyn today’s kids who have never experienced actual socialism seem to love him.
    Not sure what counts as actual socialism in your mind but realistically its never been applied in the US, and its general application is well beyond the powers of the New York mayor. He is mostly popular as a reaction to Trump and the failed Democratic establishments opposition to Trump, rather than his own beliefs.
    Mamdani’s manifesto:

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/06/25/zohran-mamdani-platform-policies-issues/84350898007/

    Rent Controls
    Free Buses
    “Hate Violence Prevention Programmes”
    City-owned Grocery Stores
    Free Childcare for U5s
    Removing Schoolyards
    $30 Minimum Wage
    Tax Rises on The Rich and Coprorations
    Non-Co-operation with Federal Police.
    Funny thing is, quite a few MAGAs seem to like socialism.
    A 55-year-old man wearing “MAGA for Mamdani” gear said he voted for Trump twice but now he’s “making a switch” and voting for Mamdani.

    “This’ll be the first time I'm voting for a Democrat,” he said. “I like his policies.”

    https://x.com/GrmelaJulian/status/1982657680985764071

    A mirror image of Labour-Reform switchers ?
    That’s funny, politics can lead to some strange outcomes sometimes.

    There’s definitely a few Trump supporters who are economically left of centre, and probably a few more who like messages about keeping down rents in what’s an expensive city to live.
    Horseshoe theory is the norm, not strange at all.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,501
    @maxh to answer your question, I see Corbyn as directly threatening the economic and physical security of my family.

    If Corbyn were elected PM I'd expect him to attack my income, and come after my assets. I'd also expect him to ignore the advice of the security services where it didn't accord to his pre-existing beliefs, and even defund them, as well as the military and police, leaving us vulnerable to state action by Russia/China and organised terrorist acts. In time, I think he'd also try and qualify or put restrictions on the democratic process too.

    If Trump were elected PM I think would favour himself and the business interests of his family, he would try and cut across due process, he would second guess judges, he'd raise tariffs, he'd corrode public standards of behaviours, and he'd damage a lot of relationships, but he wouldn't attack people's income and assets and, after a lot of bluster, and no doubt sacking some people he didn't like, he would by and large act on security advice.

    I don't think it's a difficult choice. Thankfully, we are not faced with it.

    There are no circumstances in which I would ever vote for Jeremy Corbyn.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,930
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Talking of Polanski.......

    There are a bunch of posters on here who think if they take the moral high ground in matters of morality it makes them look noble or even chivalrous. They are all of the right and at least one is a laughable hypocrite........

    .....Some years ago I described Roman Polanski as 'a man more sinned against than sinning',.........

    In brief a couple of girls went to his hacienda and asked him to have sex with them. He obliged and it transpired that despite looking early 20's they they were just 13 or 14. To avoid US jail he escaped to Europe where the laws on under age sex were more lax and he hadn't returned since. I wrote that he was a generational talent and he was a great loss to film making.

    This must be at least ten years ago. But to this day all you need do if you are a rabid right winger is clutch your pealrs to you bosom and mention my name and Polanski and you are guaranteed the approval of at least five or six of your peers.


    That is not an accurate account of what happened.
    In truth I can't remember the detail but I had read his autobiography and that was my impression though I was more intersted in the film making than the rape case. I think he claimed it was a set up between the girl and her mother but I'm very sketchy on the detail.

    (I'm assuming you are talking about the rapew case not my critique of PB's behaviour since?)
    Interesting way to get information.

    Do you judge Tommy Lots of Names by the contents of the various autobiographical pieces he has written?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,157
    edited 12:47PM
    Unherd, very much on topic (£ or free registration):

    https://unherd.com/2025/10/how-labour-lost-the-left/?

    According to [YouGov], the Greens now lead Labour, and Reform, among those under 50. Among the young, specifically those aged 18 to 24, the Greens now have almost twice Labour’s vote share.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,827
    boulay said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
    I think it’s too common nowadays to get caught up in trying to score zingers by picking on tiny errors - in all honesty it doesn’t matter if his aunt or a woman known to him - if we got back to focussing on the actual issues that matter it would be great for everyone.

    I admit that I also pick on silly things to get a “win”but it ultimately doesn’t benefit anyone.
    The problem is that his comments were racially incendiary, so what was a personal anecdote now turns out to be unreliable at best.

    His opponents will of course say the whole story was a fabrication.

    Personally, I think that his talking about 9/11 for several minutes without once mentioning those who died that day, tells you enough about the man.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,672
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
    Nope I would reference her as my aunt as for all purposes she is (and a lot more useful, nicer, practical than my real ones).
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,850
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another good (and lengthy) thread on UK defence procurement.

    The Troubled Saga of the UK’s New Medium Helicopter Programme

    Views my own, corrections and comments welcome.

    I have previous threads on this subject.

    1/25 The procurement of military equipment by the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) has often been marked by ambitious goals that exceed both financial and strategic practicality, leading to programmes that escalate in cost, diminish in scope, and fail to provide timely capabilities to frontline users. The New Medium Helicopter (NMH) programme, initiated in 2021, stands as a prime example of this recurring issue. Originally conceived as a comprehensive effort to modernise the British Armed Forces’ rotary-wing fleet with a single versatile platform, it promised greater operational efficiency and flexibility. However, her we are in October and it has narrowed into a beleaguered competition fraught with bidder withdrawals, reduced ambitions, and severe funding challenges. This thread attempts to explore the programme’s flawed origins, its challenging progression as stakeholders and suppliers have exited, and its current status as essentially a sole-source procurement aimed solely at replacing the now-retired Puma HC2 fleet. Drawing on official documents, defence analyses, and recent reports, it contends that NMH illustrates a persistent MoD failure to procure equipment that effectively meets user requirements, transforming a basic tactical lift need into an overly complicated and precarious venture. Ultimately, simpler alternatives—like the US Marine Corps’ (USMC) UH-1Y Venom ‘Huey’—could offer a more cost-effective resolution, yet again exposing institutional shortcomings in defence acquisition...

    https://x.com/MtarfaL/status/1983121214181691554

    When funding is constrained (which it will be for the rest of the decade at least), simple, cost effective, and proven systems should almost always be preferred (see also Ajax versus CV90, for example), particularly as some defence kit is likely to obsolete quite rapidly, with the changing nature of the battlefield.

    We don't even have the excuse here of favouring domestic industry.
    And whatever system we eventually opt for, it should be possible to negotiate manufacturing offsets in the UK.

    It’s very largely about bizarre attempts to “customise” when we buy abroad.

    Because simply buying a foreign product wouldn’t generate lots of fun decisions and all that paperwork that justifies existences.

    Some may recall the farce of the Chinook helicopters bought for Special Forces - to “save money” a bizarre requirement was created that led to unusable helicopters sitting in a hanger. Many years later they were downgraded to usability. At further cost.

    What fewer might know, that about the time they finally got the helicopters out of the hanger, the Australians were retiring their Special Forces Chinook variant. They’d simply bought off the shelf, used them for decades and were retiring them as worn out through hard use.
    The US has its own issues...
    Speaking on board USS George Washington in Japan, Trump promises an executive order to revert US aircraft carriers back to steam-powered catapults.

    EMALS initial development expensive and delayed but now working on the USS Gerald R Ford.

    Benefits
    ✅Faster launch cycles of aircraft
    ✅Power adjustable to match size of aircraft, extending airframe life
    ✅Frees up space and weight
    ✅Big reduction in manpower requirements and high associated cost
    ✅Safer due to eliminating high-pressure steam lines
    ✅Reduces stress on other shipboard systems

    Steam cats are no longer in production and would be very expensive to change the design of future carriers

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/1983488958324462076

    That's going to thrown an enormous spanner into US plans for the next generation of ship borne aircraft.
    As well as being imbecilic.
    Only 6 months to the next MRI test. Wonder when it will dawn on those covering up that moves will need to be made. Do we have to wait for the next cryto whale to pop up on Polymarket before anyone notices?

    https://www.polywhaler.com/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,827

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    Okay fair enough, there may be a wider story here. I was not aware that Israelis had been involved in training American police, and don’t know the scale of such things that did happen.

    It’s fair to say that Mamdani’s connects haven’t gone down well with the average New Yorker though, outside of his base.
    Must have a wide base given that he is a clear leader the polls?
    The comments only came to light yesterday.

    It’s unlikey to be enough to stop him getting elected, as with Corbyn today’s kids who have never experienced actual socialism seem to love him.
    Not sure what counts as actual socialism in your mind but realistically its never been applied in the US, and its general application is well beyond the powers of the New York mayor. He is mostly popular as a reaction to Trump and the failed Democratic establishments opposition to Trump, rather than his own beliefs.
    Mamdani’s manifesto:

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/06/25/zohran-mamdani-platform-policies-issues/84350898007/

    Rent Controls
    Free Buses
    “Hate Violence Prevention Programmes”
    City-owned Grocery Stores
    Free Childcare for U5s
    Removing Schoolyards
    $30 Minimum Wage
    Tax Rises on The Rich and Coprorations
    Non-Co-operation with Federal Police.
    Funny thing is, quite a few MAGAs seem to like socialism.
    A 55-year-old man wearing “MAGA for Mamdani” gear said he voted for Trump twice but now he’s “making a switch” and voting for Mamdani.

    “This’ll be the first time I'm voting for a Democrat,” he said. “I like his policies.”

    https://x.com/GrmelaJulian/status/1982657680985764071

    A mirror image of Labour-Reform switchers ?
    That’s funny, politics can lead to some strange outcomes sometimes.

    There’s definitely a few Trump supporters who are economically left of centre, and probably a few more who like messages about keeping down rents in what’s an expensive city to live.
    Horseshoe theory is the norm, not strange at all.
    Oh indeed. I wonder if we see Green/Reform switchers in the UK at the next election.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,672
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    Okay fair enough, there may be a wider story here. I was not aware that Israelis had been involved in training American police, and don’t know the scale of such things that did happen.

    It’s fair to say that Mamdani’s connects haven’t gone down well with the average New Yorker though, outside of his base.
    Must have a wide base given that he is a clear leader the polls?
    The comments only came to light yesterday.

    It’s unlikey to be enough to stop him getting elected, as with Corbyn today’s kids who have never experienced actual socialism seem to love him.
    Not sure what counts as actual socialism in your mind but realistically its never been applied in the US, and its general application is well beyond the powers of the New York mayor. He is mostly popular as a reaction to Trump and the failed Democratic establishments opposition to Trump, rather than his own beliefs.
    Mamdani’s manifesto:

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/06/25/zohran-mamdani-platform-policies-issues/84350898007/

    Rent Controls
    Free Buses
    “Hate Violence Prevention Programmes”
    City-owned Grocery Stores
    Free Childcare for U5s
    Removing Schoolyards
    $30 Minimum Wage
    Tax Rises on The Rich and Coprorations
    Non-Co-operation with Federal Police.
    Funny thing is, quite a few MAGAs seem to like socialism.
    A 55-year-old man wearing “MAGA for Mamdani” gear said he voted for Trump twice but now he’s “making a switch” and voting for Mamdani.

    “This’ll be the first time I'm voting for a Democrat,” he said. “I like his policies.”

    https://x.com/GrmelaJulian/status/1982657680985764071

    A mirror image of Labour-Reform switchers ?
    That’s funny, politics can lead to some strange outcomes sometimes.

    There’s definitely a few Trump supporters who are economically left of centre, and probably a few more who like messages about keeping down rents in what’s an expensive city to live.
    Horseshoe theory is the norm, not strange at all.
    Oh indeed. I wonder if we see Green/Reform switchers in the UK at the next election.
    Both are none of the above protest votes - so yes
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,808

    Foxy said:

    @Foxy FPT

    He tried to kiss her, said he wanted to make babies with her and invited her back to his flat.

    I don’t know what world you live in but that’s a long way past the line as far as I am concerned.

    She’s a 14 year old child for goodness sake.

    Yes, I agree, as I made clear in my post.

    It should be dealt with by the police, but is a 12/12 custodial sentence appropriate for such a low level non-violent offence? And one that most teenage girls will have experienced since time immemorial?

    If so, then no wonder our prisons are bursting at the seams.

    Maybe it had to be custodial because of his housing situation, but locking up every lecherous man is just impossible.
    I trust the judge sentencing him considered all the facts.

    Well what do you think ? The judge heard the whole case. More than any of us pontificating on it here.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,128
    edited 1:02PM
    Good speech by Geoffrey Cox on the China spy case.

    https://x.com/kevinhollinrake/status/1983267218633961750

    Whether the problem is the law or the prosecution, the idea we can't put people on trial for spying for a hostile foreign power is absurd.

    Personally I think spying on behalf of any foreign government ought to be illegal.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,266
    "A migrant sex offender who was mistakenly released from prison was given a £500 payment after threatening to disrupt his deportation from the UK to Ethiopia, the BBC understands."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly9rxlvp85o
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,128
    One can understand the disillusionment of the young but the rise of the Greens is terrifying.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,672
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Talking of Polanski.......

    There are a bunch of posters on here who think if they take the moral high ground in matters of morality it makes them look noble or even chivalrous. They are all of the right and at least one is a laughable hypocrite........

    .....Some years ago I described Roman Polanski as 'a man more sinned against than sinning',.........

    In brief a couple of girls went to his hacienda and asked him to have sex with them. He obliged and it transpired that despite looking early 20's they they were just 13 or 14. To avoid US jail he escaped to Europe where the laws on under age sex were more lax and he hadn't returned since. I wrote that he was a generational talent and he was a great loss to film making.

    This must be at least ten years ago. But to this day all you need do if you are a rabid right winger is clutch your pealrs to you bosom and mention my name and Polanski and you are guaranteed the approval of at least five or six of your peers.


    That is not an accurate account of what happened.
    In truth I can't remember the detail but I had read his autobiography and that was my impression though I was more intersted in the film making than the rape case. I think he claimed it was a set up between the girl and her mother but I'm very sketchy on the detail.

    (I'm assuming you are talking about the rapew case not my critique of PB's behaviour since?)
    Did you consider that maybe Roman Polanski might be rather biased on the subject of Roman Polanski's actions?
  • TresTres Posts: 3,161
    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    Wow he admitted he said something he said was untrue - already I like him better than your guy in the White House.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,128
    Tres said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    Wow he admitted he said something he said was untrue - already I like him better than your guy in the White House.
    My guess is that the guy in the White House is licking his lips at the prospect of Mamdani becoming Mayor of NYC.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,387
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
    I think it’s too common nowadays to get caught up in trying to score zingers by picking on tiny errors - in all honesty it doesn’t matter if his aunt or a woman known to him - if we got back to focussing on the actual issues that matter it would be great for everyone.

    I admit that I also pick on silly things to get a “win”but it ultimately doesn’t benefit anyone.
    The problem is that his comments were racially incendiary, so what was a personal anecdote now turns out to be unreliable at best.

    His opponents will of course say the whole story was a fabrication.

    Personally, I think that his talking about 9/11 for several minutes without once mentioning those who died that day, tells you enough about the man.
    Civilian massacres in Sudan at the moment. But apparently no Jews are involved, so we can all safely ignore it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,418
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
    Is this some social difference or difference in family sizes? I have many fictive-kinship aunties and uncles, and I would consider it rude to not refer to them in public as "Auntie X" or "Uncle Y". I often follow up with the statement "well, he's not my actual uncle but, y'know (shrug)", but that doesn't make them any less real, at least in my head. These are people who I send Xmas cards to and are mentioned in my will.

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,929

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    That's fine but the clan culture we've imported from Pakistan is a real problem.

    Some would argue that it was the breaking of clan culture that was the key to modern development/western individualism.
    One of my nieces-in-law still calls me uncle, and my wife auntie. And she's got two grown-up children.
    Shouldn’t they call you Your Majesty!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,208

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    As a Yorkshire nipper I also called my parents’ non Muslim friends auntie and uncle too.

    I’m uncle to a lot of the children of my non Muslim friends.
    Misread that as "As a Yorkshire ripper...."
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,904
    edited 1:11PM

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
    I think it’s too common nowadays to get caught up in trying to score zingers by picking on tiny errors - in all honesty it doesn’t matter if his aunt or a woman known to him - if we got back to focussing on the actual issues that matter it would be great for everyone.

    I admit that I also pick on silly things to get a “win”but it ultimately doesn’t benefit anyone.
    The problem is that his comments were racially incendiary, so what was a personal anecdote now turns out to be unreliable at best.

    His opponents will of course say the whole story was a fabrication.

    Personally, I think that his talking about 9/11 for several minutes without once mentioning those who died that day, tells you enough about the man.
    Civilian massacres in Sudan at the moment. But apparently no Jews are involved, so we can all safely ignore it.
    Unlike the slaughter in Gaza, nobody (AFAIK) is defending those carrying out the massacres in Sudan.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,137
    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
    Is this some social difference or difference in family sizes? I have many fictive-kinship aunties and uncles, and I would consider it rude to not refer to them in public as "Auntie X" or "Uncle Y". I often follow up with the statement "well, he's not my actual uncle but, y'know (shrug)", but that doesn't make them any less real, at least in my head. These are people who I send Xmas cards to and are mentioned in my will.

    I mention a lot of people in my will: I want them to know that my decision to leave them nothing was not some kind of accidental oversight. 
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,660

    One can understand the disillusionment of the young but the rise of the Greens is terrifying.

    Not as terrifying as the rise of Reform, to me at least.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,929
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
    Is this some social difference or difference in family sizes? I have many fictive-kinship aunties and uncles, and I would consider it rude to not refer to them in public as "Auntie X" or "Uncle Y". I often follow up with the statement "well, he's not my actual uncle but, y'know (shrug)", but that doesn't make them any less real, at least in my head. These are people who I send Xmas cards to and are mentioned in my will.

    I mention a lot of people in my will: I want them to know that my decision to leave them nothing was not some kind of accidental oversight. 
    That’s an excellent idea! In my case, it would lead to an extremely long will!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,666

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    As a Yorkshire nipper I also called my parents’ non Muslim friends auntie and uncle too.

    I’m uncle to a lot of the children of my non Muslim friends.
    When I was a kid there was a magician who did children's parties called Uncle Dennis.

    Which sounds a bit dodgy in retrospect.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,137
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    Okay fair enough, there may be a wider story here. I was not aware that Israelis had been involved in training American police, and don’t know the scale of such things that did happen.

    It’s fair to say that Mamdani’s connects haven’t gone down well with the average New Yorker though, outside of his base.
    Must have a wide base given that he is a clear leader the polls?
    The comments only came to light yesterday.

    It’s unlikey to be enough to stop him getting elected, as with Corbyn today’s kids who have never experienced actual socialism seem to love him.
    The latest poll is Mamdani 44%, Cuomo 34% and Republican candidate Silwa 11%,

    So if Silwa dropped out and his voters held their noses for Cuomo to beat Mamdani then Cuomo could still win.

    However Silwa won't drop out as he has said basically he considers Cuomo a scumbag even if he dislikes Mamdani's socialism and anti Israel rhetoric too
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_New_York_City_mayoral_election#General_election
    Cuomo is a scumbag.

    Mamdani is an idiot.

    Silwa won't win.

    I feel for New Yorkers.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,337
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
    Calling someone an aunt when strictly speaking she isn't is obviously a much more disqualifying thing than sexually harassing eleven women, like the other candidate for Mayor of New York.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,827

    Tres said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    Wow he admitted he said something he said was untrue - already I like him better than your guy in the White House.
    My guess is that the guy in the White House is licking his lips at the prospect of Mamdani becoming Mayor of NYC.
    There’s a lot of Republicans already expressing that sentiment, that having someone from the left of the Dems in such a high-profile role will help them in the mid-terms and beyond.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,666
    Seoul eyes nuclear-powered submarines.

    Lee to Trump: "We don't mean to build nuclear-armed submarines, but because diesel submarines are less capable of submerged navigation, there are restrictions on tracking North Korean or Chinese submarines."

    https://x.com/CollinSLKoh/status/1983433220701204521
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,827

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
    I think it’s too common nowadays to get caught up in trying to score zingers by picking on tiny errors - in all honesty it doesn’t matter if his aunt or a woman known to him - if we got back to focussing on the actual issues that matter it would be great for everyone.

    I admit that I also pick on silly things to get a “win”but it ultimately doesn’t benefit anyone.
    The problem is that his comments were racially incendiary, so what was a personal anecdote now turns out to be unreliable at best.

    His opponents will of course say the whole story was a fabrication.

    Personally, I think that his talking about 9/11 for several minutes without once mentioning those who died that day, tells you enough about the man.
    Civilian massacres in Sudan at the moment. But apparently no Jews are involved, so we can all safely ignore it.
    I have colleagues with family in Sudan, it’s not good at all over there.

    Also a lot of political violence in Kenya at the moment which is getting very little Western media coverage.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,686

    One can understand the disillusionment of the young but the rise of the Greens is terrifying.

    Hopefully all those who blame the establishment parties and woke for the rise of Reform will be similarly willing to apportion the blame in this case.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,137
    HYUFD said:

    For all the lads preferring Trump to Corbyn, are they also willing to take the throbbing haemorrhoid of Musk on the giant orange arsehole as part of the deal?

    Elon Musk
    @elonmusk
    ·
    1h
    Civil war in Britain is inevitable.

    Just a question of when.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1983444964848873569

    As the US is now united in Trump love of course!
    There's a certain lack of self awareness from Mr Musk. If civil war is going to happen anywhere, it'll be... errr... the US.

    I would also point out that his preferred British Party (Advance, ft Tommy Robinson) isn't troubling the scorers.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,312
    edited 1:19PM
    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    The fact that Labour aren’t using their majority to sort things like this is most curious. Is it simply too hard for them?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,266
    "Michael Heseltine: Reform is fascist. We must stop Nigel Farage" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/michael-heseltine-reform-nigel-farage-interview-h09vhfwbt
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,929
    From BBC Scotland “ Scottish Parliament election to have daytime vote count”. So, after staying up all night for the other results, PBers will need to stay awake the following day to see whether their betting has been profitable. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3kjpknwlqo
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,741
    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    I don’t know whether it’s a factor in the polarisation and shift to the extremes of U.K. politics, but it is interesting to note that the 2026 Russian Federation budget includes the following:

    “ The government intends to allocate $1.78 billion for mass media, up 6.6% from last year, with $317 million going to the Institute for Internet Development, which produces youth-oriented propaganda. The Russia in the World programme — designed to promote ‘traditional spiritual and moral values’ among foreign youth — will receive $145.2 million, more than double the 2025 allocation”

    Source: https://open.substack.com/pub/samf/p/ukraines-theory-of-victory?r=1meubq&utm_medium=ios (Subscription needed)

    Meanwhile the Russian Central Bank is now openly warning of the possibility of a 1990s-style economic collapse if the oil price falls.

    https://x.com/maria_drutska/status/1983430600854835347

    If they’re going public with their warnings, how bad must their internal data be looking?
    And will any of the board still be alive at Christmas?
    They better stay away from the windows, that's for sure.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,660
    Stocky said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    @Foxy FPT

    He tried to kiss her, said he wanted to make babies with her and invited her back to his flat.

    I don’t know what world you live in but that’s a long way past the line as far as I am concerned.

    She’s a 14 year old child for goodness sake.

    Yes, I agree, as I made clear in my post.

    It should be dealt with by the police, but is a 12/12 custodial sentence appropriate for such a low level non-violent offence? And one that most teenage girls will have experienced since time immemorial?

    If so, then no wonder our prisons are bursting at the seams.

    Maybe it had to be custodial because of his housing situation, but locking up every lecherous man is just impossible.
    I'd be happy if we could lock up one lecherous man who committed worse acts, and is now President of the United States.
    What we are seeing is culture war applied to everything.

    I find the arguments strange. But then I try not pick a side.

    @Foxy and @Roger are struggling with some BadFacts*. Facts which are Bad because they give ammunition to those they oppose.

    As pointed out, the sentencing guidelines are clear and quite simple. Indeed, the sentencing guidelines are an example of a process that has much to commend it. They are available online, written in normal English and with quite moderate effort, an ordinary person can see the chain of reasoning that leads to a particular sentence.

    *I was introduced to the idea of “Bad Facts” at a corporate seminar on equality. They are facts that are true, but shouldn’t be. Because of their effect on debate.
    So someone actually stood up and said this in front of other people? Were they a comedian?
    No - quite serious.

    An example (in the course) - local African involvement in the slave trade. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efunroye_Tinubu etc.

    I started parroting back the slogans etc in the “exercises” during the course. A Russian colleague, who’d lived under the USSR, commented on the similarity to the political sessions in the military. And that I’d have make a good Zampolit’s Pet. Apparently there was always one guy who would give the “Right” answer…
    This is how I feel about a lot of the stuff that HR makes us do. Recently we've all had to complete our 'Never Ok' training (or refresher). Fine - sum it up to "Don't be a dick" (with thanks to the Last Leg). But the issue is for much of the discourse around the modern world their seems to be one interpretation with is 'correct' and to deviate sees you as an outcast.

    For example climate. Most people understand that man's behaviour is leading to changes in climate. But there is a wide ranging debate in the field about the future. How much warming? How best to mitigate? Is some warming actually an issue? But if you try to debate this, all too often you are labelled a denier.

    Your example is pertinent too. The African slaves didn't migrate to the coast waiting to be picked up by passing ships. They were enslaved by other Africans and sold. But that is not something that is permitted when talking about the slave trade.
    Anyone who knows anything about the save trade knows that African tribes sold prisoners to European and Arab slavers. So I disagree that talking about this is not permitted - if it weren't permitted then nobody would know about it. Of course a more nuanced take is to look at how the presence of slaving ports changed the incentives for warfare and enslavement among the people in the region via the usual mechanism of supply and demand. It's not like the slavers were passive participants who simply turned up at the coast to conveniently take surplus slaves off the locals' hands. But the idea that the role of Africans in the process is some kind of secret is laughable.
    Perhaps I have phrased it poorly. Its the idea that slavery is only a crime perpetuated by whites against blacks that is the accepted facts.
    I don't think those are the accepted facts. The accepted fact I think is that Europeans ran the transatlantic slave trade and owned the slaves and profited from their forced labour. That Africans sold other Africans to Europeans at slave ports is also well known. But once Africans were sold they and their descendents worked for free for Europeans for centuries, and suffered premature death, frequent rape, harsh punishments and were denied normal family life and education while their own cultural practices were suppressed. In such a context I think it's unsurprising that the focus is more on slave owners than on African slave sellers, indeed I would argue it is wholly warranted.
    The other factor is that the Atlantic slave trade took place almost entirely within the context of the Enlightenment which we are led to believe was a very fine thing. I wouldn’t expect your average African chief to be au fait with the principles of liberty, individualism and reason, but perhaps a higher benchmark should be applied to the great and the good of our merchant, political and ruling classes.
    People can rationalise things to a remarkable degree. Freedom is for me, but not for thee. I struggle to understand how a man like Jefferson could see slavery as wrong in principle, but legitimate when he practised it.
    An echo of our climate travails? Burning fossil fuels is bad, but I need to get to work?
    People may have no realistic choice, but to do things that they disapprove of.

    An obvious example is that of the revolutionary socialist who has to earn a living in the marketplace.

    But,, Jefferson did have a choice. He could have done as several other Virginia slaveowners did, and emancipated his slaves, and leased out his estate to them. That would still have generated a solid rental income for him.

    He preferred to hold them as slaves.
    How about Labour politicians who attack private schools but then send their kids there?
    That's more clearly hypocritical, as they have viable alternatives.

    This is an equivocation.

    Believing that:

    1) it is wrong that there are private schools

    AND

    2) individuals are not wrong to use private school should they exist

    ... is not hypocritical.
    Personally, I think that is hypocritical but can see your point.

    How about my potential hypocrisy: I believe taxes should be higher to pay for better public services; but I'm not unilaterally going to pay more tax than I'm due under the current rules.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,666

    @maxh to answer your question, I see Corbyn as directly threatening the economic and physical security of my family.

    If Corbyn were elected PM I'd expect him to attack my income, and come after my assets. I'd also expect him to ignore the advice of the security services where it didn't accord to his pre-existing beliefs, and even defund them, as well as the military and police, leaving us vulnerable to state action by Russia/China and organised terrorist acts. In time, I think he'd also try and qualify or put restrictions on the democratic process too.

    If Trump were elected PM I think would favour himself and the business interests of his family, he would try and cut across due process, he would second guess judges, he'd raise tariffs, he'd corrode public standards of behaviours, and he'd damage a lot of relationships, but he wouldn't attack people's income and assets and, after a lot of bluster, and no doubt sacking some people he didn't like, he would by and large act on security advice.

    I don't think it's a difficult choice. Thankfully, we are not faced with it.

    There are no circumstances in which I would ever vote for Jeremy Corbyn.

    There's one thing I'd add though. Trump looks willing to tear down the democratic framework of the USA. That's a recipe for civil strife.
    Trump: If I want to enact a certain act, I’m allowed to do it. And I’d be allowed to do whatever I want And the courts wouldn’t get involved. Nobody would get involved. I can send the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines.
    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1983366375612600524
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,435
    edited 1:27PM
    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    This will be Biodiversity Net Gain.

    It is an absolute mess of paperwork and DEFRA meddling, when it could and should have been much simpler and effective.

    A lot of ecologists are refusing to have anything to do with it, and (probably as a result) the council planners are tearing their hair out at the quality of applications. Nobody really understands it anyway, as the new habitat classification it is based on is a mess (and also, helpfully, copyrighted by some private organisation).

    It is bat tunnel levels of batshit.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,418
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
    Is this some social difference or difference in family sizes? I have many fictive-kinship aunties and uncles, and I would consider it rude to not refer to them in public as "Auntie X" or "Uncle Y". I often follow up with the statement "well, he's not my actual uncle but, y'know (shrug)", but that doesn't make them any less real, at least in my head. These are people who I send Xmas cards to and are mentioned in my will.

    I mention a lot of people in my will: I want them to know that my decision to leave them nothing was not some kind of accidental oversight. 
    There's about thirty or forty in mine. The immediate family get money & property, then it reduces as it goes outwards, with most getting small objects of sentimental value. I'm going to have to rewrite it soon due to fatalities, but I keep putting it off. I keep thinking gold bars: a 1g gold bar goes for about £125 and you can fit it in a card. A nice thought for the outer ring of the family, I think.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,137

    Good speech by Geoffrey Cox on the China spy case.

    https://x.com/kevinhollinrake/status/1983267218633961750

    Whether the problem is the law or the prosecution, the idea we can't put people on trial for spying for a hostile foreign power is absurd.

    Personally I think spying on behalf of any foreign government ought to be illegal.

    I think spying on behalf of any foreign government is illegal. Sadly, it is just selectively enforced.

    (There are a number of cases in the mid to late 20th Century of the US spying on the British government, and it being covered up because we didn't want to make a fuss. I suspect the same courtesy would not have been extended the other way.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,930

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    The fact that Labour aren’t using their majority to sort things like this is most curious. Is it simply too hard for them?
    You see this as a bad thing.

    To worshippers of the Process State, the fact that a long, complex and expensive process is required to do anything, is a sign of that this area is Properly Regulated.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,666

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    This will be Biodiversity Net Gain.

    It is an absolute mess of paperwork and DEFRA meddling, when it could and should have been much simpler and effective.

    A lot of ecologists are refusing to have anything to do with it, and (probably as a result) the council planners are tearing their hair out at the quality of applications.

    It is bat tunnel levels of batshit.
    It's absolutely stupid in the way it operates.
    And this is required for any area above 25m2.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,367
    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,418

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
    Is this some social difference or difference in family sizes? I have many fictive-kinship aunties and uncles, and I would consider it rude to not refer to them in public as "Auntie X" or "Uncle Y". I often follow up with the statement "well, he's not my actual uncle but, y'know (shrug)", but that doesn't make them any less real, at least in my head. These are people who I send Xmas cards to and are mentioned in my will.

    I mention a lot of people in my will: I want them to know that my decision to leave them nothing was not some kind of accidental oversight. 
    That’s an excellent idea! In my case, it would lead to an extremely long will!
    "Dear Mr Farage. I'd hate you to think I've forgotten you, Just wanted to let you know that you are an absolute [don't go there - Ed]"
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,312

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    The fact that Labour aren’t using their majority to sort things like this is most curious. Is it simply too hard for them?
    You see this as a bad thing.

    To worshippers of the Process State, the fact that a long, complex and expensive process is required to do anything, is a sign of that this area is Properly Regulated.
    Indeed. But the interesting thing here is one of the most concrete pledges that Labour made in their very-light-on-detail manifesto was to simplify the planning system. It’s one of the very few things that they actually have an arguable mandate for. Instead of faffing around with digital ID perhaps they’d like to have a think about sorting some of this stuff.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,511
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    On Topic. The New York Mayoral elections are next week and there are notable parallels between Mamdani and Zack. They are both of the left both super articulate and both prepared to say what others are afraid to.

    People have been talking to me about Mamdani for months. The new Great (off) White Hope. If he makes as big a splash in the US as many hope this could spell even better things for Zack. He's everything that Sultana and Corbyn aren't so if he's looking for advice when they come knocking have nothing to do with them

    Is Zack also a raging anti-Semite who makes up stories about his own family?

    The next mayor of New York:

    "We have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF."

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1982974662175752646

    The day after he admited that the story he told last week about his aunt being afraid to travel on the subway in her hijab after 9/11 was untrue.

    As you like to defend Charlie Kirk by saying his comments are taken out of context you seem not to acknowledge he was talking about the NYPD like a lot of US police forces are trained by the IDF.

    From 2016

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    From 2023

    US police agencies took intelligence directly from IDF, leaked files show

    Analysis of BlueLeaks trove also shows police received training on domestic ‘Muslim extremists’ from pro-Israel groups

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/08/us-police-agencies-idf-files-blueleaks

    From 2020

    How the US and Israel exchange tactics in violence and control

    Two decades of Israeli-US police cooperation includes training in racial profiling and violent suppression of protests.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
    And I think the story about the hijab is untrue only in that the lady in question is his parents' cousin and someone he refers to as his "aunt". This is I believe a cultural thing, but back when I was a kid, we referred to family friends of my grandparents' generation as "aunt" and "uncle". So not so strange.
    I call my parents’ Muslim friends auntie or uncle even if they aren’t related to us.
    My son has a few aunties and and uncles that are actually just my friends. Its designed to help them recognise the wider group of people that will be important in his life.
    Of course, but if you spoke about your aunt in a public meeting you’d expect her to actually be your aunt, and not some distant relative who’s conveniently not able to corroborate the story.
    I think it’s too common nowadays to get caught up in trying to score zingers by picking on tiny errors - in all honesty it doesn’t matter if his aunt or a woman known to him - if we got back to focussing on the actual issues that matter it would be great for everyone.

    I admit that I also pick on silly things to get a “win”but it ultimately doesn’t benefit anyone.
    The problem is that his comments were racially incendiary, so what was a personal anecdote now turns out to be unreliable at best.

    His opponents will of course say the whole story was a fabrication.

    Personally, I think that his talking about 9/11 for several minutes without once mentioning those who died that day, tells you enough about the man.
    I don't see how the story is unreliable. It's well known that anti-Muslim racism went up immediately after 9/11. Hell there were Sikhs getting targeted because people mistook their turban for something Islamic.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,930
    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Its interesting to compare the timelines of covid and WW2. Its 5 1/2 years since the first lockdown in the UK. That takes you from Sept 1939 to near the end of the war. Think what we did as a nation back then! And now we can't build a bit of hospital because we haven't shown that we have thought about the bats...

    Now I am not a Bartholomew Roberts on this, but surely at some point we need to get stuff built.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,266
    Difficult to believe this could happen.

    "Left behind by her cruise ship on a deserted island: Questions grow over 'forgotten' woman, 80, who died on first stop of $80,000 dream cruise"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15236755/Shocking-twist-Australian-grandmother-died-deserted-island-left-cruise-ship.html
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,418
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Because you have to prove that you used bat bricks, so you have to buy the bat bricks, fill out the forms that say you have bought the bat bricks, then somebody has to check the bat bricks are bat bricks, then send them a form saying that the bat bricks are bat bricks and that you approve of the bat bricks of being sufficiently bat-ty and brick-y. Easy. Should only take 6-18 months :(
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,976

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Because the aim of the regulations is not to simply provide bat bricks.

    It’s to create an elaborate stack of paperwork regarding the design, planning, requirement and impact of bat bricks.

    Quite possibly no inspection will be done - so either no bat bricks get installed, or they will be installed so they are of no use to bats.

    The bats will probably have to nest in the paperwork.
    Can't we use the paper as brick bats?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,776
    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why will that delay it by a year?

    If these are standard provisions then you'd expect industry-standard ways of meeting the requirements, and it would only make a marginal difference.

    I'm sure there are lots of problems with planning regulations - Malmes has linked to some detailed investigations which are convincing - but some of this starts to sound like excuse-mongering. It's really easy to point to planning as the reason why you've failed to do your job properly.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,435
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    It is all the BNG paperwork. Nobody wants to do it.

    It won't be the bat bricks as such, but plan that has to prove that the maintenance of whatever has been agreed will continue for 30 years, and the 500 page document required to say 'don't mow this' is just an added insult.

    Mrs Flatlander refuses to do them - it is just too much tedious crap that has nothing to do with actual ecology.

    Some of this is supposed to be ending, in that there will instead be "habitat banks" to whom the developers can pay indulgences, but even setting up a habitat bank is mired in stupid rules that don't benefit the environment. Don't ask me how I know...

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,337

    The Edinburgh bypass is absolutely dogshit. That is all.

    You’ll get no argument from me. Slightly mystified as to why it’s so bad apart from the obvious reason of volume of traffic, stationary queues and tailbacks even in the non rush hours.

    Mainly due to the roundabout where the A7 crosses the bypass at Dalkeith and the A68 traffic is pushed onto the bypass for a short section. Too much traffic along and across the bypass brings everything to a standstill. It's supposed to be replaced by a bridge sometime.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,367
    edited 1:39PM

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Because the aim of the regulations is not to simply provide bat bricks.

    It’s to create an elaborate stack of paperwork regarding the design, planning, requirement and impact of bat bricks.

    Quite possibly no inspection will be done - so either no bat bricks get installed, or they will be installed so they are of no use to bats.

    The bats will probably have to nest in the paperwork.
    FFS. I genuinely think a lot of the regulations are fine but you have this two-sided piss about between the developers and the regulators which means they can generate endless work without actually building anything, bat brick or otherwise.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,930

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Because the aim of the regulations is not to simply provide bat bricks.

    It’s to create an elaborate stack of paperwork regarding the design, planning, requirement and impact of bat bricks.

    Quite possibly no inspection will be done - so either no bat bricks get installed, or they will be installed so they are of no use to bats.

    The bats will probably have to nest in the paperwork.
    Can't we use the paper as brick bats?
    That would require a report on the suitability of requirements paperwork as bat bricks. A report on the report. A report of the ethics of using requirements paperwork as bats nests. A report on the sustainability of using requirements paperwork….

    You’re looking at a couple of years consultancy from experts. Expert at reports that is. None of the people involved will have any knowledge of bats. That would be too low level, you see.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,396

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why will that delay it by a year?

    If these are standard provisions then you'd expect industry-standard ways of meeting the requirements, and it would only make a marginal difference.

    I'm sure there are lots of problems with planning regulations - Malmes has linked to some detailed investigations which are convincing - but some of this starts to sound like excuse-mongering. It's really easy to point to planning as the reason why you've failed to do your job properly.
    And all legislated under the Conservatives (head in hands).

    If you want something to happen, make it easy to do. (Wonder if the issue here was "we don't want to be perscriptive, so we won't say what to do, so it's your job to convince us that what you do is OK.")
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,930

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why will that delay it by a year?

    If these are standard provisions then you'd expect industry-standard ways of meeting the requirements, and it would only make a marginal difference.

    I'm sure there are lots of problems with planning regulations - Malmes has linked to some detailed investigations which are convincing - but some of this starts to sound like excuse-mongering. It's really easy to point to planning as the reason why you've failed to do your job properly.
    The reason it creates lengthy delays is that you have to write an elaborate stack of reports about the matter.

    Just putting some bat bricks in the builders plans wouldn’t be acceptable. Except to the bats. But no one in the process really gives a shit about them.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,565
    edited 1:46PM
    Andy_JS said:

    "Michael Heseltine: Reform is fascist. We must stop Nigel Farage" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/michael-heseltine-reform-nigel-farage-interview-h09vhfwbt

    Read that earlier. Interviews with Heseltine are worth reading now he's reduced whinging about Brexit to only 5% of the article.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,137
    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Because you have to prove that you used bat bricks, so you have to buy the bat bricks, fill out the forms that say you have bought the bat bricks, then somebody has to check the bat bricks are bat bricks, then send them a form saying that the bat bricks are bat bricks and that you approve of the bat bricks of being sufficiently bat-ty and brick-y. Easy. Should only take 6-18 months :(
    The problem I always struggle with is that the bats themselves don't fill in the proper DEI paperwork, so I've been unable to find a compliant supplier of bat bricks.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,776

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why will that delay it by a year?

    If these are standard provisions then you'd expect industry-standard ways of meeting the requirements, and it would only make a marginal difference.

    I'm sure there are lots of problems with planning regulations - Malmes has linked to some detailed investigations which are convincing - but some of this starts to sound like excuse-mongering. It's really easy to point to planning as the reason why you've failed to do your job properly.
    And all legislated under the Conservatives (head in hands).

    If you want something to happen, make it easy to do. (Wonder if the issue here was "we don't want to be perscriptive, so we won't say what to do, so it's your job to convince us that what you do is OK.")
    But still, I'm guessing the people building this building have done this sort of thing before. They shouldn't have to go back to first principles every time.

    I'm not disputing that there are problems and improvements that could be made, but "planning" has become this easy bogeyman to blame everything on so that people won't look too closely for other fuckups.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,399
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Michael Heseltine: Reform is fascist. We must stop Nigel Farage" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/michael-heseltine-reform-nigel-farage-interview-h09vhfwbt

    Read that earlier. Interviews with Heseltine are worth reading now he's reduced whingeing about Brexit to only 5% of the article.
    Whingeing about Heseltine?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,565

    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Michael Heseltine: Reform is fascist. We must stop Nigel Farage" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/michael-heseltine-reform-nigel-farage-interview-h09vhfwbt

    Read that earlier. Interviews with Heseltine are worth reading now he's reduced whingeing about Brexit to only 5% of the article.
    Whingeing about Heseltine?
    I try to keep it to 5% of my PB comments.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,666
    edited 1:56PM
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    And then pay for a survey and report to prove the boxes have been ticked, and wait for someone to get around to looking at that and passing it off.
    I am not familiar with the the details of this particular case, but I have a little experience of how long this stuff can take.

    Last time I had to get a bat survey, I had to wait a fortnight for the ecologist to get back from his holiday.
    I got the impression he makes a very good living out of it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,666

    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Michael Heseltine: Reform is fascist. We must stop Nigel Farage" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/michael-heseltine-reform-nigel-farage-interview-h09vhfwbt

    Read that earlier. Interviews with Heseltine are worth reading now he's reduced whingeing about Brexit to only 5% of the article.
    Whingeing about Heseltine?
    Fun fact of the day - Heseltine is the same age as Roman Polanski.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,929
    FF43 said:

    The Edinburgh bypass is absolutely dogshit. That is all.

    You’ll get no argument from me. Slightly mystified as to why it’s so bad apart from the obvious reason of volume of traffic, stationary queues and tailbacks even in the non rush hours.

    Mainly due to the roundabout where the A7 crosses the bypass at Dalkeith and the A68 traffic is pushed onto the bypass for a short section. Too much traffic along and across the bypass brings everything to a standstill. It's supposed to be replaced by a bridge sometime.
    Ever since it opened, it is been busier than forecast. Edinbuggers didn’t believe that anyone would want to bypass their fair city without visiting.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,768
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Sounds like the developer is making excuses to me. Planning permission was granted in July.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce9x1971kzjo

    Maybe there isnt the money to back it up.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,666

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    It is all the BNG paperwork. Nobody wants to do it.

    It won't be the bat bricks as such, but plan that has to prove that the maintenance of whatever has been agreed will continue for 30 years, and the 500 page document required to say 'don't mow this' is just an added insult.

    Mrs Flatlander refuses to do them - it is just too much tedious crap that has nothing to do with actual ecology.

    Some of this is supposed to be ending, in that there will instead be "habitat banks" to whom the developers can pay indulgences, but even setting up a habitat bank is mired in stupid rules that don't benefit the environment. Don't ask me how I know...

    Everyone has forgotten the hedgehogs....
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,426

    FF43 said:

    The Edinburgh bypass is absolutely dogshit. That is all.

    You’ll get no argument from me. Slightly mystified as to why it’s so bad apart from the obvious reason of volume of traffic, stationary queues and tailbacks even in the non rush hours.

    Mainly due to the roundabout where the A7 crosses the bypass at Dalkeith and the A68 traffic is pushed onto the bypass for a short section. Too much traffic along and across the bypass brings everything to a standstill. It's supposed to be replaced by a bridge sometime.
    Ever since it opened, it is been busier than forecast. Edinbuggers didn’t believe that anyone would want to bypass their fair city without visiting.
    Same as the M25. No-one believed that the reason people didn't go from one side of London to the other was that it was such a PITA
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,597
    edited 2:04PM
    Andy_JS said:

    "A migrant sex offender who was mistakenly released from prison was given a £500 payment after threatening to disrupt his deportation from the UK to Ethiopia, the BBC understands."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly9rxlvp85o

    Sounds like the final shake down card that everybody who is about to be deported will pull. Can get £2k out of the taxpayer. Understandable why the government pay up as an additional hour or two of a lawyers time will cost more than that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,666
    Not a cool fact.

    Cool fact of the day: More of HS2 will be underground than the London tube line, the Elizabeth Line.

    (50% vs 45%)

    https://x.com/brownliberite/status/1983251002968178828
  • StarryStarry Posts: 122
    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    And then pay for a survey and report to prove the boxes have been ticked, and wait for someone to get around to looking at that and passing it off.
    I am not familiar with the the details of this particular case, but I have a little experience of how long this stuff can take.

    Last time I had to get a bat survey, I had to wait a fortnight for the ecologist to get back from his holiday.
    I got the impression he makes a very good living out of it.
    Get the ecologist in at the beginning and there'll be no delays, the ecology will be integrated and they might even be able to suggest nature-based solutions to save you money.

    The ecologist has almost certainly got a degree, probably a master's, potentially a PhD. They've usually spent a good few years volunteering and on temporary contracts. Getting a bat license will probably take about 2-5 years. They're probably now on £40k working unsociable hours. If it appeals, why not become one?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,137
    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    And then pay for a survey and report to prove the boxes have been ticked, and wait for someone to get around to looking at that and passing it off.
    I am not familiar with the the details of this particular case, but I have a little experience of how long this stuff can take.

    Last time I had to get a bat survey, I had to wait a fortnight for the ecologist to get back from his holiday.
    I got the impression he makes a very good living out of it.
    It's not just the UK where this stuff is prevalent.

    In Los Angeles, building a studio in our garden ended with us paying about -and I struggle to even write this- $20,000 in various compliance costs, as we needed to have dozen inspections and to adhere to State, County and City codes around various issues like water run off.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,418
    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    It is all the BNG paperwork. Nobody wants to do it.

    It won't be the bat bricks as such, but plan that has to prove that the maintenance of whatever has been agreed will continue for 30 years, and the 500 page document required to say 'don't mow this' is just an added insult.

    Mrs Flatlander refuses to do them - it is just too much tedious crap that has nothing to do with actual ecology.

    Some of this is supposed to be ending, in that there will instead be "habitat banks" to whom the developers can pay indulgences, but even setting up a habitat bank is mired in stupid rules that don't benefit the environment. Don't ask me how I know...

    Everyone has forgotten the hedgehogs....
    The bats et them. There was a brief-but-violent Hedgehog-Bat War. Crude spears were fashioned. But the bats had air superiority.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,597
    Nigelb said:

    Not a cool fact.

    Cool fact of the day: More of HS2 will be underground than the London tube line, the Elizabeth Line.

    (50% vs 45%)

    https://x.com/brownliberite/status/1983251002968178828

    Won't somebody think of the bats moles.....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,827
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Because you have to prove that you used bat bricks, so you have to buy the bat bricks, fill out the forms that say you have bought the bat bricks, then somebody has to check the bat bricks are bat bricks, then send them a form saying that the bat bricks are bat bricks and that you approve of the bat bricks of being sufficiently bat-ty and brick-y. Easy. Should only take 6-18 months :(
    The problem I always struggle with is that the bats themselves don't fill in the proper DEI paperwork, so I've been unable to find a compliant supplier of bat bricks.
    So how do we know that LGBTQ+ and BAME bats are fairly represented among those whose habitat is being protected?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,435
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Sounds like the developer is making excuses to me. Planning permission was granted in July.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce9x1971kzjo

    Maybe there isnt the money to back it up.
    It will be a condition of planning permission that the enhancement plan is provided prior to work starting.

    For the hedgehog holes, the enhancement plan will have to mark the exact location of each hedgehog hole on the site drawings and be appropriately labelled when installed. It might also need paperwork to explain why the hedgehog holes need to be in those locations.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,686
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    It is all the BNG paperwork. Nobody wants to do it.

    It won't be the bat bricks as such, but plan that has to prove that the maintenance of whatever has been agreed will continue for 30 years, and the 500 page document required to say 'don't mow this' is just an added insult.

    Mrs Flatlander refuses to do them - it is just too much tedious crap that has nothing to do with actual ecology.

    Some of this is supposed to be ending, in that there will instead be "habitat banks" to whom the developers can pay indulgences, but even setting up a habitat bank is mired in stupid rules that don't benefit the environment. Don't ask me how I know...

    Everyone has forgotten the hedgehogs....
    The bats et them. There was a brief-but-violent Hedgehog-Bat War. Crude spears were fashioned. But the bats had air superiority.
    And SONAR.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,776
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Sounds like the developer is making excuses to me. Planning permission was granted in July.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce9x1971kzjo

    Maybe there isnt the money to back it up.
    One of the comments under the twitter post is:

    "The condition you refer to is not a pre-commencement condition, the developer currently has pending applications to discharge actual pre-commencement conditions and a s73 app to alter the FFLs, the LPA is not prioritising hedgehogs over people now is it"

    I don't know exactly what is going on here, but it's not bats and hedgehogs that are causing the issues.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,776
    Nigelb said:

    Not a cool fact.

    Cool fact of the day: More of HS2 will be underground than the London tube line, the Elizabeth Line.

    (50% vs 45%)

    https://x.com/brownliberite/status/1983251002968178828

    I hope Cheryl Gillan has a tunnel named after her. The "Bloody Expensive Cheryl Gillan Tunnel".
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,929
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Because you have to prove that you used bat bricks, so you have to buy the bat bricks, fill out the forms that say you have bought the bat bricks, then somebody has to check the bat bricks are bat bricks, then send them a form saying that the bat bricks are bat bricks and that you approve of the bat bricks of being sufficiently bat-ty and brick-y. Easy. Should only take 6-18 months :(
    The problem I always struggle with is that the bats themselves don't fill in the proper DEI paperwork, so I've been unable to find a compliant supplier of bat bricks.
    So how do we know that LGBTQ+ and BAME bats are fairly represented among those whose habitat is being protected?
    What about trans bats? Somewhere there will be a Lesser Horseshoe self identifying as a Common Pipistrelle.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,850
    My sometimes Green voting OH has decided that she wants an Owl box for Xmas.

    Somehow I have to be able to get it 20-30 ft up into a tree facing away from the prevailing winds. Trying to negotiate with Santa for him and his elves to deliver and install it in the tree as they have the reindeer powered aerial platform.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,929
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Because you have to prove that you used bat bricks, so you have to buy the bat bricks, fill out the forms that say you have bought the bat bricks, then somebody has to check the bat bricks are bat bricks, then send them a form saying that the bat bricks are bat bricks and that you approve of the bat bricks of being sufficiently bat-ty and brick-y. Easy. Should only take 6-18 months :(
    The problem I always struggle with is that the bats themselves don't fill in the proper DEI paperwork, so I've been unable to find a compliant supplier of bat bricks.
    So how do we know that LGBTQ+ and BAME bats are fairly represented among those whose habitat is being protected?
    Are they being shown in advertising in proportion to their rarity?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,672
    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    Talking of Polanski.......

    There are a bunch of posters on here who think if they take the moral high ground in matters of morality it makes them look noble or even chivalrous. They are all of the right and at least one is a laughable hypocrite........

    .....Some years ago I described Roman Polanski as 'a man more sinned against than sinning',.........

    In brief a couple of girls went to his hacienda and asked him to have sex with them. He obliged and it transpired that despite looking early 20's they they were just 13 or 14. To avoid US jail he escaped to Europe where the laws on under age sex were more lax and he hadn't returned since. I wrote that he was a generational talent and he was a great loss to film making.

    This must be at least ten years ago. But to this day all you need do if you are a rabid right winger is clutch your pealrs to you bosom and mention my name and Polanski and you are guaranteed the approval of at least five or six of your peers.

    FFS Roger. He was 42, she was 13. Polanski was facing four charges including rape, sodomy, child molestation and giving drugs to a minor.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/11/newsid_4265000/4265617.stm

    Genius he may have been, you're better placed than me to judge. But deeply, deeply flawed. Vile in fact.
    Polanski then wangled a very generous plea bargain... but decided he didn't like the look of the minimal time he'd've done under that, so he skipped the country. He is still on the run from prison.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,597
    edited 2:21PM
    Your joking...not another one...

    An asylum seeker who "calmly" walked into a bank and stabbed a man inside to death without provocation or motive has been jailed for life.

    Haybe Cabdiraxmaan Nur stabbed Gurvinder Johal, 37, through the heart in an attack caught on CCTV at a Lloyds Bank branch in St Peter's Street, Derby, just after 14:30 BST on 6 May.

    Mr Johal's family said Nur - who Derby Crown Court heard arrived on small boat in the UK after spending a few years in Europe. The court heard Nur, who arrived in the UK in October 2024, had previously spent time in Italy, France, Germany, Luxembourg and the Netherlands.

    https://bbc.com/news/articles/clyld1p0lw1o

    The court heard that Nur had previously been arrested in the UK for violence and public order offences in December 2024, when he was heard shouting 'f*** the English' and 'white racist b*******' while trying to run into traffic. On that occasion, he was said to have headbutted a construction worker, but no charges were brought against him. But Mr Mably said that the defendant was also known to the police in four European countries – France, Luxembourg, Italy and Germany – in the years before he arrived in the UK, after being arrested for a variety of offences.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15238193/Channel-migrant-known-police-FOUR-countries-arrested-shouting-f-English-murdered-restaurant-owner-random-high-street-bank-asylum-application-rejected.html

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,776

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    Sounds like the developer is making excuses to me. Planning permission was granted in July.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce9x1971kzjo

    Maybe there isnt the money to back it up.
    It will be a condition of planning permission that the enhancement plan is provided prior to work starting.

    For the hedgehog holes, the enhancement plan will have to mark the exact location of each hedgehog hole on the site drawings and be appropriately labelled when installed. It might also need paperwork to explain why the hedgehog holes need to be in those locations.
    The planning condition says:

    "Within three months of commencement of development a biodiversity enhancement plan shall be submitted for approval by the local planning authority...
    ...
    No building shall be brought into use until the biodiversity enhancement plan has been approved in writing by the local planning authority..."


    Now I'd agree that the biodiversity net gain requirements are likely a "cunning plan" from government to offload responsibility for improving biodiversity from the government to developers that isn't working as smoothly as hoped, but pointing to bats/hedgehogs in this instance as the reason for a delay in construction simply isn't accurate.

    Something else is going on.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,672
    edited 2:23PM
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    This stuff is just stupid economic self harm.

    Today in UK planning law ruins everything:

    NHS patients waiting for surgery in Lincolnshire could face a further one year delay for a new surgical centre, as the developers have to prove that they are providing "integrated bat bricks" and "provisions for hedgehogs to pass"

    https://x.com/dc_lawrence/status/1983173907294122432

    Why does that take a year? Should take less than a day to sort the bat bricks.
    It is all the BNG paperwork. Nobody wants to do it.

    It won't be the bat bricks as such, but plan that has to prove that the maintenance of whatever has been agreed will continue for 30 years, and the 500 page document required to say 'don't mow this' is just an added insult.

    Mrs Flatlander refuses to do them - it is just too much tedious crap that has nothing to do with actual ecology.

    Some of this is supposed to be ending, in that there will instead be "habitat banks" to whom the developers can pay indulgences, but even setting up a habitat bank is mired in stupid rules that don't benefit the environment. Don't ask me how I know...

    Everyone has forgotten the hedgehogs....
    The bats et them. There was a brief-but-violent Hedgehog-Bat War. Crude spears were fashioned. But the bats had air superiority.
    I wouldn't piss off a hedgehog. They might resort to biological weapons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog_coronavirus_1
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