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Labour’s little local difficulties: The Welsh edition – politicalbetting.com

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  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,821
    Sandpit said:

    Hundreds of firms warn new guidance on single sex spaces is ‘unworkable’ and would cause ‘significant economic harm’
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/supreme-court-trans-single-sex-spaces-b2826924.html

    Alternatively the same rules worked well until very recently, and companies - especially those which face the public - don’t want to be targeted by groups of obnoxious activists.
    Were there even rules or did people just get on with life as long as it did not frighten the horses, as we used to say?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,190
    Battlebus said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Labour deputy leadership contender Lucy Powell, who was fired by Sir Keir Starmer in his cabinet reshuffle, has criticised "unforced errors" by the government over welfare.

    In her first broadcast interview since being sacked, she told the BBC's Nick Robinson attempts to cut disability benefits and winter fuel payments had left voters questioning "whose side we are on".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly6gevkn7zo

    Well I have no doubt which side Labour are on.

    Labour are on the side of non-workers and against workers.

    Plenty of disabled folk work. Some of my most effective colleagues are in wheelchairs or have significant mental health issues.

    (I'm not disputing your sentiment but some of the chat around disabled claimants has been a bit unedifying, particularly as the criteria and adjustments for disability benefits are quite different to standard UC etc).
    Well said. More generally it's amazing how many people even on here think UC recipients are all sitting on their thumbs. Many are in work.
    The problem with UC and other benefits is 'drift'. What starts out as a scheme with lofty purpose starts being bent and twisted by the various legal challenges usually along the lines of 'why is my group left out'. So that group is added which creates more exceptions which allows more challenges.

    UC has allowed a number of businesses to survive which shouldn't have, due to playing the indirect subsidy game especially with zero hours contracts. There is a question here if this is a business or a lifestyle. The DWP seems to think it is a lifestyle.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyl90ry2j7o

    That isn't UC, it's Access to Work which can pay a grant to help disabled people work, including running their own business. The gentleman in question had a support worker paid for 5 days a week, which has been cut to 1. Without knowing the details, I would wonder if he couldn't arrange his time a bit better so he only needs the support worker 1 or 2 days a week
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,259
    edited 9:59AM

    Given the wording of the question (Do you approve or disapprove of the government's record to date?), the dire ratings are no surprise; nor is the slight worsening of their position given events in recent weeks. For example, I would be in the 'disapprove' column, but would still vote Labour given the alternatives, and I don't think I'm alone.
    The point with this question is the wording has been consistent since 2010 so we can track it against previous governments.
    At 11/72 its far worse than anything Boris managed even during partygate, pinchergate and resignation
    Versus Sunak his government was worse regarded net score wise only in the last pre election (12/74) and in his first ever in Oct 22 in the aftermath of Truss it was identical 11/72
    Its worse than the Truss government in the initial aftermath of the mini budget, after the crisis and polling collapse, but slightly above the final two Truss ratings which fell to 6/82 as she resigned
    Its analogous to the fall of Theresa Mays government May to July 2017 with ratings bouncing around this level, once dipping below at 9/72

    In my opinion its pretty much irrecoverable for Labour in terms of leading the next government
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,821

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    JLR: (Long quote as paywall)

    I'm not sure how this plays in to their production pause to go electric, which if it is in place and continuing may mitigate.

    Jaguar Land Rover’s output could take several months to normalise, fear suppliers

    JLR on Tuesday said it would extend its production halt until at least next Wednesday as it continued its investigation. In a statement, the company also cautioned that “the controlled restart of our global operations . . . will take time”.
    If JLR cannot produce vehicles until November, David Bailey, professor at University of Birmingham, estimated that the group would suffer a revenue hit of more than £3.5bn while it would lose about £250mn in profits, or about £72mn in revenue and £5mn in profits on a daily basis.
    With annual revenues of £29bn in 2024, JLR will be able to absorb the financial costs but Bailey warned the consequences would be bigger for the smaller sized companies in its supply chain. JLR declined to comment.
    The cyber attack comes at a crucial period for the UK carmaker when it is going through a controversial rebranding of its Jaguar brand and an expensive shift to all-electric vehicles by the end of the decade. Even before the latest incident, people briefed on the matter have said the company was facing delays with launching its new electric models.
    “They are clearly in chaos,” said one industry executive who works closely with JLR, while another warned that “no one actually knows” when production would resume.

    https://www.ft.com/content/c67be2f2-4dcf-4656-888c-8711789cd9ae#selection-2255.0-2275.165

    JLR's supply chain might collapse completely. Already there have been reports of thousands of layoffs. The government needs to pull its finger out on mitigation and support (it makes one nostalgic for Covid) but also to do more to prevent these incidents in the first place. Is the NCSC (National Cyber Security Centre) fit for purpose?
    Who is it the government’s responsibility? JLE has plenty of money. They need their supply chain operational otherwise they are out of business.

    JLR needs a supply chain. HMG might prefer that supply chain be largely UK-based.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,259
    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,488
    Barnesian said:

    BBC "Four men have been arrested after images of Donald Trump and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein were projected on to Windsor Castle on Tuesday, as the US president arrived in the UK for a state visit.

    They were arrested on suspicion of "malicious communications following a public stunt in Windsor" and remained in custody, Thames Valley Police said."

    This does look like censorship.
    A malicious communication must be one of these:
    Indecent or grossly offensive
    Contain a believable threat of harm or violence.
    Give false information with the intent to cause distress or anxiety
    Repeated harassment that cause fear or distress

    Projecting images of Trump and Epstein on to Windsor Castle is none of these things.
    It might be embarrassing but it isn't grounds to keep them in custody!

    The whole malicious communications law needs to be abolished. We managed perfectly well without it before 2003 or whenever it was brought in.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,488

    Good morning

    I wouldn't be surprised to see labour fall further

    Alarm bells ring in Welsh labour as they attempt to distance themselves from Starmer

    Indeed with polls like this Reform could be in with a chance of most seats

    Whatever happens, Labour's years in office in Wales looks terminal

    And on Trump, Sky suggesting No 10 want him to have a special gift and a personalised 'red box' is under consideration

    They are barmy if that is indeed one of the gifts

    and watching Cooper fawning all over him on his arrival was sickening

    My friend, they cannot fall further from the ZERO seats now forecast.

    Zero seats. Glorious fun!
    YouGov predicts they'll win 13 seats.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,753
    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,970

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,821
    Andy_JS said:

    Barnesian said:

    BBC "Four men have been arrested after images of Donald Trump and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein were projected on to Windsor Castle on Tuesday, as the US president arrived in the UK for a state visit.

    They were arrested on suspicion of "malicious communications following a public stunt in Windsor" and remained in custody, Thames Valley Police said."

    This does look like censorship.
    A malicious communication must be one of these:
    Indecent or grossly offensive
    Contain a believable threat of harm or violence.
    Give false information with the intent to cause distress or anxiety
    Repeated harassment that cause fear or distress

    Projecting images of Trump and Epstein on to Windsor Castle is none of these things.
    It might be embarrassing but it isn't grounds to keep them in custody!

    The whole malicious communications law needs to be abolished. We managed perfectly well without it before 2003 or whenever it was brought in.
    Indeed, although sometimes a Prohibition of Being a Self-Righteous PITA Act is tempting.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,898
    edited 10:12AM

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    The hope has to be that dickheads like that poison the well ahead of the next election.

    We are NOT the US.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,259

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,488

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Good on him.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,898
    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    We couldn't have "bloke telly". That would never do.

    Like the coverage of the NFL. Three blokes - glorious fun. Gone.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,299
    I don’t think it’s just a welsh problem

    Government approval falls to its lowest level since Labour took office, with a net score of -61 (fieldwork 13-15 Sep 2025)

    Approve: 11% (-1 from 6-8 Sep)
    Disapprove: 72% (+3)
    Net: -61 (-4)

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lyzi72tcic2p

    YouGov have asked this 594 times in the last 14 years according to their dataset.

    In only 7 have the net ratings been worse than, or equal to, this one.

    Four were in the aftermath of the Truss mini-budget and the last instance was Sunak's penultimate before the GE.

    It's that bad.

    https://bsky.app/profile/liburghal.bsky.social/post/3lyzlc5jemk2e
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,898
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    I don't follow LD world very closely and I'm wondering about Daisy Cooper. In the Next Leader market she is (and has been for a while) a very cramped odds on shot with no-one else in the betting really. I reckon I could get matched for a lay at 1.4. Is that worth doing, do we think? Or is she pretty much nailed on to get the job when Ed Davey goes?

    I don't have a vote nowadays (not since the early 2010s) but Cooper leaves me cold. I find it hard to believe that there isn't a stronger candidate among the LD MPs if Davey goes before the next GE. She is quite popular in the party, I believe, but at 1.4 I'd lay too. Anything under 2 looks short to me when there's not even a contest yet, too much to happen. I haven't bet though, partly for the same reason - not sure how long I'd be tying money up for.

    Should note that I'm not at all active in the party - I know some people who are and they're fairly split on Cooper. There are plenty of unbelievers, but probably around half are fans. For me, she's Swinson mk2 - the heir apparent for reasons that are not immediately obvious to me. Swinson, of course, did get the gig.

    Should also note that I don't know who I would choose at present.

    ETA: If it was soon she'd be in a good position. Longer there's more time for others to emerge, I think. but even if soon if someone good decides to go for it then I think Cooper can be outshone. The Cameron to her Davis.
    I thought you meant Yvette Cooper!

    Could we have a situation where two parties are led by a Cooper? That would be a barrel of laughs
    Heh, much of that does apply to Cooper (Y) as well!

    Why not add John Cooper and go for the triple? :lol:
    Can we trade him for John Cooper Clark?

    He'd be great at PMQs.

    "No-one's got a good word for you. But I have.

    Twat."
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,911
    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,569
    edited 10:22AM
    Remember that weird Westminster Honeytrap story,

    Ex-Labour Councillor Charged After Westminster ‘Honeytrap’ Scandal

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/man-charged-blackmail-and-communications-offences-within-british-politics

    Former Labour councillor Oliver Steadman has been charged with one count of blackmail and with a communications offence in relation to the Westminster ‘honeytrap’ scandal. The Crown Prosecution Service announced the charges against the 28-year old this morning…

    Steadman was elected as an Islington councillor in May 2024, only to resign two months later.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,165
    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Cookie said:

    kjh said:

    Barnesian said:

    BBC "Four men have been arrested after images of Donald Trump and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein were projected on to Windsor Castle on Tuesday, as the US president arrived in the UK for a state visit.

    They were arrested on suspicion of "malicious communications following a public stunt in Windsor" and remained in custody, Thames Valley Police said."

    This does look like censorship.
    A malicious communication must be one of these:
    Indecent or grossly offensive
    Contain a believable threat of harm or violence.
    Give false information with the intent to cause distress or anxiety
    Repeated harassment that cause fear or distress

    Projecting images of Trump and Epstein on to Windsor Castle is none of these things.
    It might be embarrassing but it isn't grounds to keep them in custody!

    Agree. I thought it nonsense when I heard they had been arrested this morning. Not sure how you stop them doing it though otherwise.
    Interesting one, though. I'd be annoyed if an image of Donald Trump was projected onto my house. It 'feels' like there ought to be some legal way of stopping someone from doing so. But I can't see under what law.
    I assume under civil law, something along the lines of trespass. It should only be criminal if it reaches the standard of harassment. But I agree it is interesting. I don't want them criminalised and they should be free to do it, but once done that is it. It seems unreasonable that they should be allowed to continue with it. The point has been made. Images have been projected on parliament before now. There was a nude of the lady whose name I have forgotten who later suffered from hair loss. Ah it is bugging me I can't remember her name.
    Gail Porter.
    Thank you. Saved a lot of wasted time racking my brains.
    Was not Leon's not-friend involved in that one?

    I think it was in celebration of a stunt to get publicity for the 100 sexiest women.

    Presumably there's an Otters Pocket involved somewhere !
    If I remember correctly Leon had a friend of Nelson at the battle of Trafalgar and a friend of Napoleon at Waterloo (with that surname, possibly a relative).
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,415

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Elements of the British Right have become obsessed with this man, whom most wouldn't even have heard of till last week. I detect something of a morbid 'Princess Di' faddishness going on here.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,100

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Talk about virtue signaling. Reform really are the woke right aren't they.
    Yes, people aren't voting Reform because they want to replace left wing posturing with right wing posturing - they're voting Reform because they consider posturing stupid. I bet the median Reform voter has no desperately strong views on Charlie Kirk.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,165

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
    The cars are just an excuse for the programme. It is a comedy programme and rather funny.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,895

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
    I have no interest in cars, but, for the most part, Top Gear was very entertaining. The cars were just an excuse for three blokes to cock about.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,667
    edited 10:27AM

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
    Dunno...
    "This one, Jeremy, goes from 0-190 degrees in 6.8 seconds!"
    (Top Gear wasn't much about cars, in latter years. I also wasn't a watcher, but I know that much)

    ETA: Ah, ironing boards sorry.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,359
    Andy_JS said:

    Barnesian said:

    BBC "Four men have been arrested after images of Donald Trump and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein were projected on to Windsor Castle on Tuesday, as the US president arrived in the UK for a state visit.

    They were arrested on suspicion of "malicious communications following a public stunt in Windsor" and remained in custody, Thames Valley Police said."

    This does look like censorship.
    A malicious communication must be one of these:
    Indecent or grossly offensive
    Contain a believable threat of harm or violence.
    Give false information with the intent to cause distress or anxiety
    Repeated harassment that cause fear or distress

    Projecting images of Trump and Epstein on to Windsor Castle is none of these things.
    It might be embarrassing but it isn't grounds to keep them in custody!

    The whole malicious communications law needs to be abolished. We managed perfectly well without it before 2003 or whenever it was brought in.
    The BBC has now published the video that was projected on to Windsor Castle.
    This has far far wider reach than the original projection.
    Is the BBC also guilty of "malicious communications" under the 2003 Act.
    And have any BBC personnel been taken into custody?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,950

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
    It’s actually not very much about cars. It’s entertainment with cars as the hook.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,569
    edited 10:28AM
    Leon said:

    “This is a shocker. James Reed , CEO of the recruiter Reed, said on Times Radio the UK is in the grip of a graduate jobs crisis noting three years ago he had 188,000 graduate jobs on his books and today it was 55,000.

    He encouraged middle class families to encourage their student kids to take up manual labour”

    *cough* universities

    *cough* doomed

    This backs up what I posted in response to Dr Foxy's anecdote about his kids recently getting good jobs. I said at the time that I have spoken to university academics at top institutions and they say their students are finding it really hard to get jobs. Rise of AI sifting, much longer application / interview process all fighting over far less jobs.

    And own my anecdote was a family friend who just got their PhD in computer science with multiple publications in top tier journals (but not in LLMs / generative models), from again a top programme in the UK, and took them quite a few months to get a R&D job and its quite run of the mill.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,675

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    We couldn't have "bloke telly". That would never do.

    Like the coverage of the NFL. Three blokes - glorious fun. Gone.
    BlokeTV has moved to YouTube.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Microsoft to invest £22bn in UK.

    Big win for Starmer.

    Microsoft: "“You don’t spend £22bn unless you have confidence in where the country, the government and the market are all going,”

    I'm old enough to remember when Clive Sinclair and Alan Sugar were the UJ-emblazoned future, at least according to the media.
    Amstrad was at one point Europe's second largest computer manufacturer.
    Indeed. I must have worn out about half a dozen PCWs at least, mostly free from friends and relatives, cannibalising and adapting them to read/write to PC floppy format. Put off the evil day when I had to upgrade the hardware.
    Amstrad had a real genius for taking outdated technology and turning it in to cheap products that were still easy to use and got the job done.

    But that fooled Sugar in to thinking old tech would always sell if you priced it low enough, which turned out not to be the case.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,070
    edited 10:33AM

    Given the wording of the question (Do you approve or disapprove of the government's record to date?), the dire ratings are no surprise; nor is the slight worsening of their position given events in recent weeks. For example, I would be in the 'disapprove' column, but would still vote Labour given the alternatives, and I don't think I'm alone.
    The point with this question is the wording has been consistent since 2010 so we can track it against previous governments.
    At 11/72 its far worse than anything Boris managed even during partygate, pinchergate and resignation
    Versus Sunak his government was worse regarded net score wise only in the last pre election (12/74) and in his first ever in Oct 22 in the aftermath of Truss it was identical 11/72
    Its worse than the Truss government in the initial aftermath of the mini budget, after the crisis and polling collapse, but slightly above the final two Truss ratings which fell to 6/82 as she resigned
    Its analogous to the fall of Theresa Mays government May to July 2017 with ratings bouncing around this level, once dipping below at 9/72

    In my opinion its pretty much irrecoverable for Labour in terms of leading the next government
    In which case it's obviously also terminal for the Conservative Party who are doing even worse which means you are predicting a certain Farage premiership? I can't see it........

    To go from 6 MPs to 320 would be quite a feat. He's also likely to face some scrutiny over the next three years like his presumptive Minister of Health producing evidence that the Covid vaccine wiped out the Royal Family.

    He has the thicko's vote that's obvious. But are there enough of them to take this seven times loser over the line?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,259
    eek said:

    I don’t think it’s just a welsh problem

    Government approval falls to its lowest level since Labour took office, with a net score of -61 (fieldwork 13-15 Sep 2025)

    Approve: 11% (-1 from 6-8 Sep)
    Disapprove: 72% (+3)
    Net: -61 (-4)

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lyzi72tcic2p

    YouGov have asked this 594 times in the last 14 years according to their dataset.

    In only 7 have the net ratings been worse than, or equal to, this one.

    Four were in the aftermath of the Truss mini-budget and the last instance was Sunak's penultimate before the GE.

    It's that bad.

    https://bsky.app/profile/liburghal.bsky.social/post/3lyzlc5jemk2e

    Ill give you the exact occasions

    Twice in 2019 under the May collapse - a 9/72 (worse) 10/71 (same)
    Three times umder Truss 11/72 on Oct 2nd (same) and 7/77 6/82 (worse) the two weeks before she resigned
    Sunaks first on 31/10/22 11/72 (same)
    And the penultimate GE 24 12/74 (worse)

    So only 4 worse net ratings since 2010
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,569
    edited 10:32AM
    kjh said:

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
    The cars are just an excuse for the programme. It is a comedy programme and rather funny.
    And by the end (including the Grand Tour) the comedy had gone / the "incidents" were so staged it was pathetic, and as a result couldn't survive on the wonderful views of exotic landscapes and supercars.

    It is why Clarkson's farm is such a hit, it has all the emotions and yes some of it is staged but most of it really isn't, it is much more real window into the characters that run our farms. You can't control the weather to make the tv show better.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,488
    Roger said:

    Given the wording of the question (Do you approve or disapprove of the government's record to date?), the dire ratings are no surprise; nor is the slight worsening of their position given events in recent weeks. For example, I would be in the 'disapprove' column, but would still vote Labour given the alternatives, and I don't think I'm alone.
    The point with this question is the wording has been consistent since 2010 so we can track it against previous governments.
    At 11/72 its far worse than anything Boris managed even during partygate, pinchergate and resignation
    Versus Sunak his government was worse regarded net score wise only in the last pre election (12/74) and in his first ever in Oct 22 in the aftermath of Truss it was identical 11/72
    Its worse than the Truss government in the initial aftermath of the mini budget, after the crisis and polling collapse, but slightly above the final two Truss ratings which fell to 6/82 as she resigned
    Its analogous to the fall of Theresa Mays government May to July 2017 with ratings bouncing around this level, once dipping below at 9/72

    In my opinion its pretty much irrecoverable for Labour in terms of leading the next government
    In which case it's obviously also terminal for the Conservative Party who are doing even worse which means you are predicting a certain Farage premiership? I can't see it........

    To go from 6 MPs to 320 would be quite a feat. He's also likely to face some scrutiny over the next three years like his presumptive Minister of Health producing evidence that the Covid vaccine wiped out the Royal Family.

    He has the thicko's vote that's obvious. But I can't see there being enough of them to take him over the line
    1. They're not thickos, and 2. he can win a majority.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,259
    Roger said:

    Given the wording of the question (Do you approve or disapprove of the government's record to date?), the dire ratings are no surprise; nor is the slight worsening of their position given events in recent weeks. For example, I would be in the 'disapprove' column, but would still vote Labour given the alternatives, and I don't think I'm alone.
    The point with this question is the wording has been consistent since 2010 so we can track it against previous governments.
    At 11/72 its far worse than anything Boris managed even during partygate, pinchergate and resignation
    Versus Sunak his government was worse regarded net score wise only in the last pre election (12/74) and in his first ever in Oct 22 in the aftermath of Truss it was identical 11/72
    Its worse than the Truss government in the initial aftermath of the mini budget, after the crisis and polling collapse, but slightly above the final two Truss ratings which fell to 6/82 as she resigned
    Its analogous to the fall of Theresa Mays government May to July 2017 with ratings bouncing around this level, once dipping below at 9/72

    In my opinion its pretty much irrecoverable for Labour in terms of leading the next government
    In which case it's obviously also terminal for the Conservative Party who are doing even worse which means you are predicting a certain Farage premiership? I can't see it........

    To go from 6 MPs to 320 would be quite a feat. He's also likely to face some scrutiny over the next three years like his presumptive Minister of Health producing evidence that the Covid vaccine wiped out the Royal Family.

    He has the thicko's vote that's obvious. But I can't see there being enough of them to take him over the line
    Farage as head of a minority government looks likely at the moment to me
    However I think that view may change with time. Just not to a Labour govt
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,932
    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Good on him.
    Why on earth would a UK local council acknowledge the death of a US pundit? I really hate this continuous importing of US political obsessions into the UK, from both left & right - it suggests our politicians are so completely divorced from our own politics to the point where they care more about the political issues of a foreign nation than they do about our own.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,333
    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I agree. I don't even drive and I loved Top Gear!

    The whole communal experience of culture has largely disappeared. Sport remains as the only unifier these days; I suspect that is partly why the flag is having a resurgence.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,950
    Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
    Dunno...
    "This one, Jeremy, goes from 0-190 degrees in 6.8 seconds!"
    (Top Gear wasn't much about cars, in latter years. I also wasn't a watcher, but I know that much)

    ETA: Ah, ironing boards sorry.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_ironing
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,245
    Roger said:

    Given the wording of the question (Do you approve or disapprove of the government's record to date?), the dire ratings are no surprise; nor is the slight worsening of their position given events in recent weeks. For example, I would be in the 'disapprove' column, but would still vote Labour given the alternatives, and I don't think I'm alone.
    The point with this question is the wording has been consistent since 2010 so we can track it against previous governments.
    At 11/72 its far worse than anything Boris managed even during partygate, pinchergate and resignation
    Versus Sunak his government was worse regarded net score wise only in the last pre election (12/74) and in his first ever in Oct 22 in the aftermath of Truss it was identical 11/72
    Its worse than the Truss government in the initial aftermath of the mini budget, after the crisis and polling collapse, but slightly above the final two Truss ratings which fell to 6/82 as she resigned
    Its analogous to the fall of Theresa Mays government May to July 2017 with ratings bouncing around this level, once dipping below at 9/72

    In my opinion its pretty much irrecoverable for Labour in terms of leading the next government
    In which case it's obviously also terminal for the Conservative Party who are doing even worse which means you are predicting a certain Farage premiership? I can't see it........

    To go from 6 MPs to 320 would be quite a feat. He's also likely to face some scrutiny over the next three years like his presumptive Minister of Health producing evidence that the Covid vaccine wiped out the Royal Family.

    He has the thicko's vote that's obvious. But are there enough of them to take this seven times loser over the line?
    Your last paragraph slurs many millions who support Reform and is exactly the attitude that delivered Brexit

    I do not want to see a Reform government anymore than you do, but in order for that to happen a recovery in the conservatives and labour is needed and that is far from a given
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,278
    edited 10:41AM
    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I agree. I don't even drive and I loved Top Gear!

    The whole communal experience of culture has largely disappeared. Sport remains as the only unifier these days; I suspect that is partly why the flag is having a resurgence.
    Sport isn't much of a unifier for say Tottenham and West Ham, Manchester United and Manchester City and Liverpool and Everton fans, even if for national teams at world cups
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,087

    Barnesian said:

    BBC "Four men have been arrested after images of Donald Trump and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein were projected on to Windsor Castle on Tuesday, as the US president arrived in the UK for a state visit.

    They were arrested on suspicion of "malicious communications following a public stunt in Windsor" and remained in custody, Thames Valley Police said."

    This does look like censorship.
    A malicious communication must be one of these:
    Indecent or grossly offensive
    Contain a believable threat of harm or violence.
    Give false information with the intent to cause distress or anxiety
    Repeated harassment that cause fear or distress

    Projecting images of Trump and Epstein on to Windsor Castle is none of these things.
    It might be embarrassing but it isn't grounds to keep them in custody!

    I was going to ask in what way protecting a picture onto a house was a criminal offence.
    Quite.

    At this rate Tommy Lots of Names will claim that the existence of brown people causes him “fear and distress”.
    Tbf that is an unarguable fact, to the point that poor little Tommy has to self medicate to an alarming degree.
    Of the available AIs Grok seems to be the one to not beat around the bush. Just ask it 'Is Yaxley-Lennon violent?' to see what I mean.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,168
    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Barnesian said:

    BBC "Four men have been arrested after images of Donald Trump and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein were projected on to Windsor Castle on Tuesday, as the US president arrived in the UK for a state visit.

    They were arrested on suspicion of "malicious communications following a public stunt in Windsor" and remained in custody, Thames Valley Police said."

    This does look like censorship.
    A malicious communication must be one of these:
    Indecent or grossly offensive
    Contain a believable threat of harm or violence.
    Give false information with the intent to cause distress or anxiety
    Repeated harassment that cause fear or distress

    Projecting images of Trump and Epstein on to Windsor Castle is none of these things.
    It might be embarrassing but it isn't grounds to keep them in custody!

    The whole malicious communications law needs to be abolished. We managed perfectly well without it before 2003 or whenever it was brought in.
    The BBC has now published the video that was projected on to Windsor Castle.
    This has far far wider reach than the original projection.
    Is the BBC also guilty of "malicious communications" under the 2003 Act.
    And have any BBC personnel been taken into custody?

    Where was this ?
    https://x.com/AntiTrumpCanada/status/1968110926948921711

    It would get you banned from PB, probably.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,469

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,898
    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    If Reform go full Trumpian, Tommy Robinson will be in charge of the police, the courts and MI5...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,753

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
    Top Gear was never really about the cars. My wife isn't a massive car enthusiast but she absolutely loves it because it's just fun.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,781

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Talk about virtue signaling. Reform really are the woke right aren't they.
    I wonder if he kicked off like this when Melissa Hortman was assassinated?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,190
    Phil said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Good on him.
    Why on earth would a UK local council acknowledge the death of a US pundit? I really hate this continuous importing of US political obsessions into the UK, from both left & right - it suggests our politicians are so completely divorced from our own politics to the point where they care more about the political issues of a foreign nation than they do about our own.
    Also the idea that you have to emote when someone you don't know, dies*. People die all the time, I don't get upset about them because I didn't know them. Someone posted a stat on here the other day that someone is shot dead every 20 minutes in the US, even if you exclude suicides. I clearly can't get upset about all of them, other than in a very general way, and see no reason why Charlie Kirk should be singled out.

    *Or passes, or whatever infantile euphemism we are supposed to use this week

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,998

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Microsoft to invest £22bn in UK.

    Big win for Starmer.

    Microsoft: "“You don’t spend £22bn unless you have confidence in where the country, the government and the market are all going,”

    I'm old enough to remember when Clive Sinclair and Alan Sugar were the UJ-emblazoned future, at least according to the media.
    Amstrad was at one point Europe's second largest computer manufacturer.
    Indeed. I must have worn out about half a dozen PCWs at least, mostly free from friends and relatives, cannibalising and adapting them to read/write to PC floppy format. Put off the evil day when I had to upgrade the hardware.
    Amstrad had a real genius for taking outdated technology and turning it in to cheap products that were still easy to use and got the job done.

    But that fooled Sugar in to thinking old tech would always sell if you priced it low enough, which turned out not to be the case.
    No, what sunk him was the Seagate disc scandal where they deliberately sold him hard drives which were faulty. It killed Amstrad in computers - their reputation was toast and by the time they pinned Seagate down the market had moved on leaving them behind.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,781

    Remember that weird Westminster Honeytrap story,

    Ex-Labour Councillor Charged After Westminster ‘Honeytrap’ Scandal

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/man-charged-blackmail-and-communications-offences-within-british-politics

    Former Labour councillor Oliver Steadman has been charged with one count of blackmail and with a communications offence in relation to the Westminster ‘honeytrap’ scandal. The Crown Prosecution Service announced the charges against the 28-year old this morning…

    Steadman was elected as an Islington councillor in May 2024, only to resign two months later.

    It led to me writing about my own experiences on Grindr.


    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/04/05/jesus-mary-joseph-and-the-wee-donkey/
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,998

    Roger said:

    Given the wording of the question (Do you approve or disapprove of the government's record to date?), the dire ratings are no surprise; nor is the slight worsening of their position given events in recent weeks. For example, I would be in the 'disapprove' column, but would still vote Labour given the alternatives, and I don't think I'm alone.
    The point with this question is the wording has been consistent since 2010 so we can track it against previous governments.
    At 11/72 its far worse than anything Boris managed even during partygate, pinchergate and resignation
    Versus Sunak his government was worse regarded net score wise only in the last pre election (12/74) and in his first ever in Oct 22 in the aftermath of Truss it was identical 11/72
    Its worse than the Truss government in the initial aftermath of the mini budget, after the crisis and polling collapse, but slightly above the final two Truss ratings which fell to 6/82 as she resigned
    Its analogous to the fall of Theresa Mays government May to July 2017 with ratings bouncing around this level, once dipping below at 9/72

    In my opinion its pretty much irrecoverable for Labour in terms of leading the next government
    In which case it's obviously also terminal for the Conservative Party who are doing even worse which means you are predicting a certain Farage premiership? I can't see it........

    To go from 6 MPs to 320 would be quite a feat. He's also likely to face some scrutiny over the next three years like his presumptive Minister of Health producing evidence that the Covid vaccine wiped out the Royal Family.

    He has the thicko's vote that's obvious. But are there enough of them to take this seven times loser over the line?
    Your last paragraph slurs many millions who support Reform and is exactly the attitude that delivered Brexit

    I do not want to see a Reform government anymore than you do, but in order for that to happen a recovery in the conservatives and labour is needed and that is far from a given
    I agree with you - lets not call voters stupid. Whether the issue is Brexit or Red Wallers or Reformers.

    However, there is a very clear and present danger from misinformation and open lies being propagated on social media. We have fragmented information channels so that it is very easy for people only to hear what they want to hear, with algorithms pushing more of the same.

    When the information being pushed out is a lie - such as the % of migrants committing crimes - then we have a big problem.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,753

    Phil said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Good on him.
    Why on earth would a UK local council acknowledge the death of a US pundit? I really hate this continuous importing of US political obsessions into the UK, from both left & right - it suggests our politicians are so completely divorced from our own politics to the point where they care more about the political issues of a foreign nation than they do about our own.
    Also the idea that you have to emote when someone you don't know, dies*. People die all the time, I don't get upset about them because I didn't know them. Someone posted a stat on here the other day that someone is shot dead every 20 minutes in the US, even if you exclude suicides. I clearly can't get upset about all of them, other than in a very general way, and see no reason why Charlie Kirk should be singled out.

    *Or passes, or whatever infantile euphemism we are supposed to use this week

    Because he was assassinated for having an opinion. He wasn't in power, he didn't vote for things, he didn't make any laws, he just talked and had opinions. It's an attack on free speech and freedom of thought which many thousands of leftists celebrated and called for such and such "next".
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,260
    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I'm not a car bore, drive one that works, but I loved Top Gear and The Grand Tour because they were always superb entertainment. Yes of course a lot of the bollocks was scripted, but it was still great.

    Clarkson was 'cancelled' because he punched someone. He shouldn't have done that, and I am sure out of the moment he was sorry that he did it. I've never met him, but he comes across as a decent person and he makes stars of others - Hammond and May and lately Caleb. His is a voice in society that some don't want to hear.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,469
    A snippet from Oxford Admission Statistics p 28, aggregated figures 2022-2024:

    Undergraduate medicine admissions from UK domiciled candidates:
    BME Students: 237
    White Students 189.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,359
    edited 10:58AM
    Nigelb said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Barnesian said:

    BBC "Four men have been arrested after images of Donald Trump and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein were projected on to Windsor Castle on Tuesday, as the US president arrived in the UK for a state visit.

    They were arrested on suspicion of "malicious communications following a public stunt in Windsor" and remained in custody, Thames Valley Police said."

    This does look like censorship.
    A malicious communication must be one of these:
    Indecent or grossly offensive
    Contain a believable threat of harm or violence.
    Give false information with the intent to cause distress or anxiety
    Repeated harassment that cause fear or distress

    Projecting images of Trump and Epstein on to Windsor Castle is none of these things.
    It might be embarrassing but it isn't grounds to keep them in custody!

    The whole malicious communications law needs to be abolished. We managed perfectly well without it before 2003 or whenever it was brought in.
    The BBC has now published the video that was projected on to Windsor Castle.
    This has far far wider reach than the original projection.
    Is the BBC also guilty of "malicious communications" under the 2003 Act.
    And have any BBC personnel been taken into custody?

    Where was this ?
    https://x.com/AntiTrumpCanada/status/1968110926948921711

    It would get you banned from PB, probably.
    Windsor?
    Edit No Actually I think it is 2019.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,491
    AnthonyT said:

    Meanwhile the New Statesman says the quiet part out loud.




    Labour's vision: killing off the old and the sick so that it can get its hands on their property and not spend money on them. We already have the war in Europe caused by a totalitarian fascist state and the growth in vile anti-semitism so now we're getting the eugenics as well. Quite the triple lock.

    Calm down, calm down ... the waiting list for AD will be so long, that most will drop off beforehand. You could even get to the point where the young won't pay the taxes to fund the NHS (high likelihood IMHO) so AD will be kicked into touch as unnecessary as the services won't be there to extend lives.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,260

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
    It was never about cars.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,070

    Roger said:

    Given the wording of the question (Do you approve or disapprove of the government's record to date?), the dire ratings are no surprise; nor is the slight worsening of their position given events in recent weeks. For example, I would be in the 'disapprove' column, but would still vote Labour given the alternatives, and I don't think I'm alone.
    The point with this question is the wording has been consistent since 2010 so we can track it against previous governments.
    At 11/72 its far worse than anything Boris managed even during partygate, pinchergate and resignation
    Versus Sunak his government was worse regarded net score wise only in the last pre election (12/74) and in his first ever in Oct 22 in the aftermath of Truss it was identical 11/72
    Its worse than the Truss government in the initial aftermath of the mini budget, after the crisis and polling collapse, but slightly above the final two Truss ratings which fell to 6/82 as she resigned
    Its analogous to the fall of Theresa Mays government May to July 2017 with ratings bouncing around this level, once dipping below at 9/72

    In my opinion its pretty much irrecoverable for Labour in terms of leading the next government
    In which case it's obviously also terminal for the Conservative Party who are doing even worse which means you are predicting a certain Farage premiership? I can't see it........

    To go from 6 MPs to 320 would be quite a feat. He's also likely to face some scrutiny over the next three years like his presumptive Minister of Health producing evidence that the Covid vaccine wiped out the Royal Family.

    He has the thicko's vote that's obvious. But are there enough of them to take this seven times loser over the line?
    Your last paragraph slurs many millions who support Reform and is exactly the attitude that delivered Brexit

    I do not want to see a Reform government anymore than you do, but in order for that to happen a recovery in the conservatives and labour is needed and that is far from a given
    I was trying to be accurate. If you prefer a different form of words that's up to you.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,415
    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Barnesian said:

    BBC "Four men have been arrested after images of Donald Trump and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein were projected on to Windsor Castle on Tuesday, as the US president arrived in the UK for a state visit.

    They were arrested on suspicion of "malicious communications following a public stunt in Windsor" and remained in custody, Thames Valley Police said."

    This does look like censorship.
    A malicious communication must be one of these:
    Indecent or grossly offensive
    Contain a believable threat of harm or violence.
    Give false information with the intent to cause distress or anxiety
    Repeated harassment that cause fear or distress

    Projecting images of Trump and Epstein on to Windsor Castle is none of these things.
    It might be embarrassing but it isn't grounds to keep them in custody!

    The whole malicious communications law needs to be abolished. We managed perfectly well without it before 2003 or whenever it was brought in.
    The BBC has now published the video that was projected on to Windsor Castle.
    This has far far wider reach than the original projection.
    Is the BBC also guilty of "malicious communications" under the 2003 Act.
    And have any BBC personnel been taken into custody?

    Where was this ?
    https://x.com/AntiTrumpCanada/status/1968110926948921711

    It would get you banned from PB, probably.
    Windsor?
    Yes, it looks like Windsor, just by the Guildhall.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,190
    MaxPB said:

    Phil said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Good on him.
    Why on earth would a UK local council acknowledge the death of a US pundit? I really hate this continuous importing of US political obsessions into the UK, from both left & right - it suggests our politicians are so completely divorced from our own politics to the point where they care more about the political issues of a foreign nation than they do about our own.
    Also the idea that you have to emote when someone you don't know, dies*. People die all the time, I don't get upset about them because I didn't know them. Someone posted a stat on here the other day that someone is shot dead every 20 minutes in the US, even if you exclude suicides. I clearly can't get upset about all of them, other than in a very general way, and see no reason why Charlie Kirk should be singled out.

    *Or passes, or whatever infantile euphemism we are supposed to use this week

    Because he was assassinated for having an opinion. He wasn't in power, he didn't vote for things, he didn't make any laws, he just talked and had opinions. It's an attack on free speech and freedom of thought which many thousands of leftists celebrated and called for such and such "next".
    Plenty of people are murdered for a pretext. "Why are you looking at me like that, sunshine?". Or for their wallet.

    And if you support freedom of speech, you should support celebration of a murder as freedom of speech. Plenty of rightists have form calling for violence.

    The killing of Charlie Kirk was irrelevant in a UK context and no-one should be expected to have an opinion about it. If asked, I would simply say it is wrong to murder people and I had sympathy for his widow and children
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,245
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Given the wording of the question (Do you approve or disapprove of the government's record to date?), the dire ratings are no surprise; nor is the slight worsening of their position given events in recent weeks. For example, I would be in the 'disapprove' column, but would still vote Labour given the alternatives, and I don't think I'm alone.
    The point with this question is the wording has been consistent since 2010 so we can track it against previous governments.
    At 11/72 its far worse than anything Boris managed even during partygate, pinchergate and resignation
    Versus Sunak his government was worse regarded net score wise only in the last pre election (12/74) and in his first ever in Oct 22 in the aftermath of Truss it was identical 11/72
    Its worse than the Truss government in the initial aftermath of the mini budget, after the crisis and polling collapse, but slightly above the final two Truss ratings which fell to 6/82 as she resigned
    Its analogous to the fall of Theresa Mays government May to July 2017 with ratings bouncing around this level, once dipping below at 9/72

    In my opinion its pretty much irrecoverable for Labour in terms of leading the next government
    In which case it's obviously also terminal for the Conservative Party who are doing even worse which means you are predicting a certain Farage premiership? I can't see it........

    To go from 6 MPs to 320 would be quite a feat. He's also likely to face some scrutiny over the next three years like his presumptive Minister of Health producing evidence that the Covid vaccine wiped out the Royal Family.

    He has the thicko's vote that's obvious. But are there enough of them to take this seven times loser over the line?
    Your last paragraph slurs many millions who support Reform and is exactly the attitude that delivered Brexit

    I do not want to see a Reform government anymore than you do, but in order for that to happen a recovery in the conservatives and labour is needed and that is far from a given
    I was trying to be accurate. If you prefer a different form of words that's up to you.
    No - you are using slurs in a misguided guilt trip for millions of voters and in so doing you are just adding more support for them

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,259
    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1968195697943208102?s=19

    Rupert's deportation petition heatmap is a useful guide to voting patterns in the next election. Discuss
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,569
    edited 11:02AM

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1968195697943208102?s=19

    Rupert's deportation petition heatmap is a useful guide to voting patterns in the next election. Discuss

    Before I clicked on it, I thought it was going to be a heatmap on how popular deporting Rupert Lowe was....
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,359
    "AN advertising van displaying an image of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein together has been confiscated by police, according to campaigners.

    The group People vs Elon had been displaying the van in Windsor on Wednesday morning as the US president is in the UK on a state visit."

    Just happened.
    Maybe JDVance was right about the UK and free speech?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,821
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
    Top Gear was never really about the cars. My wife isn't a massive car enthusiast but she absolutely loves it because it's just fun.
    Top Gear before the Clarkson/Wilman relaunch was very much about cars. And if you watch clips on YouTube, Jeremy Clarkson's accent was posher than the Queen. Fifth Gear on Channel 5 is (or was) more like the old Top Gear.

    Here is two minutes of Jeremy Clarkson:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-X222bpiFw

    Here is the first episode from 1977:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txw8vrSKapI
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,932

    Sandpit said:

    Hundreds of firms warn new guidance on single sex spaces is ‘unworkable’ and would cause ‘significant economic harm’
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/supreme-court-trans-single-sex-spaces-b2826924.html

    Alternatively the same rules worked well until very recently, and companies - especially those which face the public - don’t want to be targeted by groups of obnoxious activists.
    Were there even rules or did people just get on with life as long as it did not frighten the horses, as we used to say?
    I think that’s mostly right. What’s changed is that there’s now a very small but vocal number of fetishised men who get off on invading women’s spaces by claiming to be women.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,259
    edited 11:12AM

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1968195697943208102?s=19

    Rupert's deportation petition heatmap is a useful guide to voting patterns in the next election. Discuss

    Before I clicked on it, I thought it was going to be a heatmap on how popular deporting Rupert Lowe was....
    Lol.
    It is quite interesting though. Whilst Lowe is ex Reform i think it shows where they are going to pile up votes and where Lab or Tories might hang on - for the latter interesting that Harrogate (corrected) and Wetherby look less hard-core anti immigration as an example, or Derby Dales which might remain a LabCon marginal.

    Its not a prediction of course but its the sort of supplemental data that would help more with constituency betting (nearer the time) than Baxter.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,415
    Barnesian said:

    "AN advertising van displaying an image of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein together has been confiscated by police, according to campaigners.

    The group People vs Elon had been displaying the van in Windsor on Wednesday morning as the US president is in the UK on a state visit."

    Just happened.
    Maybe JDVance was right about the UK and free speech?

    This is frightening. Our freedom of speech is being massively curtailed by the Right, and the American Right at that. Our leaders - Sir Keir, Kemi and Nigel - need to unite in condemnation.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,245

    Barnesian said:

    "AN advertising van displaying an image of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein together has been confiscated by police, according to campaigners.

    The group People vs Elon had been displaying the van in Windsor on Wednesday morning as the US president is in the UK on a state visit."

    Just happened.
    Maybe JDVance was right about the UK and free speech?

    This is frightening. Our freedom of speech is being massively curtailed by the Right, and the American Right at that. Our leaders - Sir Keir, Kemi and Nigel - need to unite in condemnation.
    This is going far to far
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,845
    edited 11:12AM
    ..
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,845

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
    It wasn't really about cars.

    It was Last of the Summer Wine, with a younger trio and a larger budget.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,259

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1968195697943208102?s=19

    Rupert's deportation petition heatmap is a useful guide to voting patterns in the next election. Discuss

    Before I clicked on it, I thought it was going to be a heatmap on how popular deporting Rupert Lowe was....
    Lol.
    It is quite interesting though. Whilst Lowe is ex Reform i think it shows where they are going to pile up votes and where Lab or Tories might hang on - for the latter interesting that Harrogate (corrected) and Wetherby look less hard-core anti immigration as an example, or Derby Dales which might remain a LabCon marginal.

    Its not a prediction of course but its the sort of supplemental data that would help more with constituency betting (nearer the time) than Baxter.
    Harrogate is LD, I misread that bit of it but point remains
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,100
    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I agree. I don't even drive and I loved Top Gear!

    The whole communal experience of culture has largely disappeared. Sport remains as the only unifier these days; I suspect that is partly why the flag is having a resurgence.
    Top Gear would have dwindled away even with Clarkson punching someone. We have so much more choice of what to watch and what to do now. 30 years ago, almost everyone household's telly was on in he evening and the only question was which of four channels it was tuned to. Now it's unusual to get a programme that 10% of the population watch. The UK isn't unusual in this respect.

    My favourite telly stat: in 1985, 18.5 million people - almost one third of the UK population at the time - stayed up until after midnight to watch Dennis Taylor beat Steve Davis in the final of the World Snooker Championship. The past was culturally quite a different place.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,932

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
    It’s actually not very much about cars. It’s entertainment with cars as the hook.
    Which is how the same production team, led by Andy Wilman and Jeremy Clarkson, have successfully managed to make another show from a totally different premise.

    This time it’s entertainment on the farm - and with some quite serious messaging behind it as well, as evidenced by the number of farmers supporting the show. The next series is going to be filmed around the harvest now, which has been terrible in that part of the country, and with a large dose of simple politics covering the last Budget and the forthcoming one.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,675

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1968195697943208102?s=19

    Rupert's deportation petition heatmap is a useful guide to voting patterns in the next election. Discuss

    Before I clicked on it, I thought it was going to be a heatmap on how popular deporting Rupert Lowe was....
    Lol.
    It is quite interesting though. Whilst Lowe is ex Reform i think it shows where they are going to pile up votes and where Lab or Tories might hang on - for the latter interesting that Harrogate (corrected) and Wetherby look less hard-core anti immigration as an example, or Derby Dales which might remain a LabCon marginal.

    Its not a prediction of course but its the sort of supplemental data that would help more with constituency betting (nearer the time) than Baxter.
    'Were you up for Ed?'
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,932
    Cookie said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I agree. I don't even drive and I loved Top Gear!

    The whole communal experience of culture has largely disappeared. Sport remains as the only unifier these days; I suspect that is partly why the flag is having a resurgence.
    Top Gear would have dwindled away even with Clarkson punching someone. We have so much more choice of what to watch and what to do now. 30 years ago, almost everyone household's telly was on in he evening and the only question was which of four channels it was tuned to. Now it's unusual to get a programme that 10% of the population watch. The UK isn't unusual in this respect.

    My favourite telly stat: in 1985, 18.5 million people - almost one third of the UK population at the time - stayed up until after midnight to watch Dennis Taylor beat Steve Davis in the final of the World Snooker Championship. The past was culturally quite a different place.
    It’s now pretty much only live sport that’s keeping linear TV alive.

    Possibly Game of Thrones was the last show that everyone watched once a week at a time slot.

    BTW is the World Athletics on TV in the UK? Watching from abroad there appears to have been very little coverage of it. Duplantis with yet another pole vault WR the highlight so far.

    Oh, and new season of Slow Horses drops on AppleTV next week, possibly the best British drama of recent years.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,259
    Foss said:

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1968195697943208102?s=19

    Rupert's deportation petition heatmap is a useful guide to voting patterns in the next election. Discuss

    Before I clicked on it, I thought it was going to be a heatmap on how popular deporting Rupert Lowe was....
    Lol.
    It is quite interesting though. Whilst Lowe is ex Reform i think it shows where they are going to pile up votes and where Lab or Tories might hang on - for the latter interesting that Harrogate (corrected) and Wetherby look less hard-core anti immigration as an example, or Derby Dales which might remain a LabCon marginal.

    Its not a prediction of course but its the sort of supplemental data that would help more with constituency betting (nearer the time) than Baxter.
    'Were you up for Ed?'
    The massacre in Morley, deadwood in Outwood
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,663

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I'm not a car bore, drive one that works, but I loved Top Gear and The Grand Tour because they were always superb entertainment. Yes of course a lot of the bollocks was scripted, but it was still great.

    Clarkson was 'cancelled' because he punched someone. He shouldn't have done that, and I am sure out of the moment he was sorry that he did it. I've never met him, but he comes across as a decent person and he makes stars of others - Hammond and May and lately Caleb. His is a voice in society that some don't want to hear.
    A voice that some don’t want to hear and are determined that nobody else should hear.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,845

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1968195697943208102?s=19

    Rupert's deportation petition heatmap is a useful guide to voting patterns in the next election. Discuss

    Before I clicked on it, I thought it was going to be a heatmap on how popular deporting Rupert Lowe was....
    Lol.
    It is quite interesting though. Whilst Lowe is ex Reform i think it shows where they are going to pile up votes and where Lab or Tories might hang on - for the latter interesting that Harrogate (corrected) and Wetherby look less hard-core anti immigration as an example, or Derby Dales which might remain a LabCon marginal.

    Its not a prediction of course but its the sort of supplemental data that would help more with constituency betting (nearer the time) than Baxter.
    In his own constituency he has under 2% signatures. I don't have a yardstick for that.

    But what is it with Carlisle?
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,675
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I agree. I don't even drive and I loved Top Gear!

    The whole communal experience of culture has largely disappeared. Sport remains as the only unifier these days; I suspect that is partly why the flag is having a resurgence.
    Top Gear would have dwindled away even with Clarkson punching someone. We have so much more choice of what to watch and what to do now. 30 years ago, almost everyone household's telly was on in he evening and the only question was which of four channels it was tuned to. Now it's unusual to get a programme that 10% of the population watch. The UK isn't unusual in this respect.

    My favourite telly stat: in 1985, 18.5 million people - almost one third of the UK population at the time - stayed up until after midnight to watch Dennis Taylor beat Steve Davis in the final of the World Snooker Championship. The past was culturally quite a different place.
    It’s now pretty much only live sport that’s keeping linear TV alive.

    Possibly Game of Thrones was the last show that everyone watched once a week at a time slot.

    BTW is the World Athletics on TV in the UK? Watching from abroad there appears to have been very little coverage of it. Duplantis with yet another pole vault WR the highlight so far.

    Oh, and new season of Slow Horses drops on AppleTV next week, possibly the best British drama of recent years.
    GoT's ratings were never as large as it's cultural impact.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,898
    algarkirk said:

    A snippet from Oxford Admission Statistics p 28, aggregated figures 2022-2024:

    Undergraduate medicine admissions from UK domiciled candidates:
    BME Students: 237
    White Students 189.

    The power of Indian mums...?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,932
    Barnesian said:

    "AN advertising van displaying an image of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein together has been confiscated by police, according to campaigners.

    The group People vs Elon had been displaying the van in Windsor on Wednesday morning as the US president is in the UK on a state visit."

    Just happened.
    Maybe JDVance was right about the UK and free speech?

    That’s an embarrassing breach of security in Windsor, but it’s difficult to see what they’ve done to be detained for the laws it’s claimed they’ve broken.

    Embarrassing the government and visiting dignitaries isn’t illegal, yet.

    Edit: is this a second incident, he first being the projector in front of the castle last night?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,191
    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
    It wasn't really about cars.

    It was Last of the Summer Wine, with a younger trio and a larger budget.
    The think I disliked about it apart from the future Reform voters 'live' audience, is the indifference Clarkson had towards anything not carbon fibre, mag alloy or costing less than 6 figures. He was also a mechanical yahoo which though it was part of his schtick was I think actually genuine.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,278
    The King and Queen join the Trumps as the carriage procession proceeds down the Long Drive through Windsor Great Park to Windsor Castle
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,100
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I agree. I don't even drive and I loved Top Gear!

    The whole communal experience of culture has largely disappeared. Sport remains as the only unifier these days; I suspect that is partly why the flag is having a resurgence.
    Top Gear would have dwindled away even with Clarkson punching someone. We have so much more choice of what to watch and what to do now. 30 years ago, almost everyone household's telly was on in he evening and the only question was which of four channels it was tuned to. Now it's unusual to get a programme that 10% of the population watch. The UK isn't unusual in this respect.

    My favourite telly stat: in 1985, 18.5 million people - almost one third of the UK population at the time - stayed up until after midnight to watch Dennis Taylor beat Steve Davis in the final of the World Snooker Championship. The past was culturally quite a different place.
    It’s now pretty much only live sport that’s keeping linear TV alive.

    Possibly Game of Thrones was the last show that everyone watched once a week at a time slot.

    BTW is the World Athletics on TV in the UK? Watching from abroad there appears to have been very little coverage of it. Duplantis with yet another pole vault WR the highlight so far.

    Oh, and new season of Slow Horses drops on AppleTV next week, possibly the best British drama of recent years.
    I haven't seen athletics on telly for years, Olympics and CG aside.
    I haven't seen and won't be watching Slow Horses. Brilliant it may be but the buy-access-to-every-streaming service midel is horrible and I'm not joining in. It's worse than car parking payment apps.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,245
    HYUFD said:

    The King and Queen join the Trumps as the carriage procession proceeds down the Long Drive through Windsor Great Park to Windsor Castle

    Watching it is so far away from a normal state visit with only the military present

    It speaks to the fact that Trump has to be kept away from people for his own security
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,845
    The Trump press conference will be interesting, if the journos have not had their balls cut off first, or been pre-screened to be sycophants only - which is unlikely in the UK.

    The questions will mainly be to Trump, trying to embarrass Starmer?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,898
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I agree. I don't even drive and I loved Top Gear!

    The whole communal experience of culture has largely disappeared. Sport remains as the only unifier these days; I suspect that is partly why the flag is having a resurgence.
    Top Gear would have dwindled away even with Clarkson punching someone. We have so much more choice of what to watch and what to do now. 30 years ago, almost everyone household's telly was on in he evening and the only question was which of four channels it was tuned to. Now it's unusual to get a programme that 10% of the population watch. The UK isn't unusual in this respect.

    My favourite telly stat: in 1985, 18.5 million people - almost one third of the UK population at the time - stayed up until after midnight to watch Dennis Taylor beat Steve Davis in the final of the World Snooker Championship. The past was culturally quite a different place.
    It’s now pretty much only live sport that’s keeping linear TV alive.

    Possibly Game of Thrones was the last show that everyone watched once a week at a time slot.

    BTW is the World Athletics on TV in the UK? Watching from abroad there appears to have been very little coverage of it. Duplantis with yet another pole vault WR the highlight so far.

    Oh, and new season of Slow Horses drops on AppleTV next week, possibly the best British drama of recent years.
    I haven't seen athletics on telly for years, Olympics and CG aside.
    I haven't seen and won't be watching Slow Horses. Brilliant it may be but the buy-access-to-every-streaming service midel is horrible and I'm not joining in. It's worse than car parking payment apps.
    In this case, your loss. Buy when series 5 is all up, watch all series, then cancel.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,127
    edited 11:32AM

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1968195697943208102?s=19

    Rupert's deportation petition heatmap is a useful guide to voting patterns in the next election. Discuss

    Before I clicked on it, I thought it was going to be a heatmap on how popular deporting Rupert Lowe was....
    Lol.
    It is quite interesting though. Whilst Lowe is ex Reform i think it shows where they are going to pile up votes and where Lab or Tories might hang on - for the latter interesting that Harrogate (corrected) and Wetherby look less hard-core anti immigration as an example, or Derby Dales which might remain a LabCon marginal.

    Its not a prediction of course but its the sort of supplemental data that would help more with constituency betting (nearer the time) than Baxter.
    Harrogate is LD, I misread that bit of it but point remains
    The map looks reasonably reassuring for Lib Dem holds and potential targets.

    The other bizarre (but not new) thing is the hottest areas of the heat map are generally those with fewest foreign born residents.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,260
    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I have never watched Top Gear. Maybe I don't have much common sense! Watching a programme about cars sounds like watching a programme about ironing boards as far as I'm concerned.
    It wasn't really about cars.

    It was Last of the Summer Wine, with a younger trio and a larger budget.
    Last of the Summer Wine had a budget? Crikey!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,260
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    Random observation - my wife never really watched old Top Gear so we've been going through it on iPlayer for the last couple of weeks in the evenings. Firstly, it's genuinely great entertainment, even for non-car enthusiasts.

    Secondly, I think Top Gear coming off the air and moving to a less watched streaming programme has contributed to the political fracturing of the nation. Top Gear used to be watched by basically everyone in the country and it was a constant of three middle aged blokes telling the emperor he had no clothes on and it meant the rest of the country didn't feel completely insane for having common sense.

    I don't think there's been a show like it since then that has captured the cultural zeitgeist and is watched by basically the whole country that just tells it like it is and isn't afraid of being "cancelled".

    There's a sanity check that's been missing.

    I agree. I don't even drive and I loved Top Gear!

    The whole communal experience of culture has largely disappeared. Sport remains as the only unifier these days; I suspect that is partly why the flag is having a resurgence.
    Top Gear would have dwindled away even with Clarkson punching someone. We have so much more choice of what to watch and what to do now. 30 years ago, almost everyone household's telly was on in he evening and the only question was which of four channels it was tuned to. Now it's unusual to get a programme that 10% of the population watch. The UK isn't unusual in this respect.

    My favourite telly stat: in 1985, 18.5 million people - almost one third of the UK population at the time - stayed up until after midnight to watch Dennis Taylor beat Steve Davis in the final of the World Snooker Championship. The past was culturally quite a different place.
    It’s now pretty much only live sport that’s keeping linear TV alive.

    Possibly Game of Thrones was the last show that everyone watched once a week at a time slot.

    BTW is the World Athletics on TV in the UK? Watching from abroad there appears to have been very little coverage of it. Duplantis with yet another pole vault WR the highlight so far.

    Oh, and new season of Slow Horses drops on AppleTV next week, possibly the best British drama of recent years.
    I haven't seen athletics on telly for years, Olympics and CG aside.
    I haven't seen and won't be watching Slow Horses. Brilliant it may be but the buy-access-to-every-streaming service midel is horrible and I'm not joining in. It's worse than car parking payment apps.
    The worlds is on BBC but the timing is awful with it being in Japan.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,245
    MattW said:

    The Trump press conference will be interesting, if the journos have not had their balls cut off first, or been pre-screened to be sycophants only - which is unlikely in the UK.

    The questions will mainly be to Trump, trying to embarrass Starmer?

    That comes at Chequers tomorrow and the media have been quite clear that it will be dominated by Mandelson Epstein Trump scenario
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,260

    algarkirk said:

    A snippet from Oxford Admission Statistics p 28, aggregated figures 2022-2024:

    Undergraduate medicine admissions from UK domiciled candidates:
    BME Students: 237
    White Students 189.

    The power of Indian mums...?
    We see similar in Pharmacy. Societal expectations differ among different 'races'.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,259
    MattW said:

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1968195697943208102?s=19

    Rupert's deportation petition heatmap is a useful guide to voting patterns in the next election. Discuss

    Before I clicked on it, I thought it was going to be a heatmap on how popular deporting Rupert Lowe was....
    Lol.
    It is quite interesting though. Whilst Lowe is ex Reform i think it shows where they are going to pile up votes and where Lab or Tories might hang on - for the latter interesting that Harrogate (corrected) and Wetherby look less hard-core anti immigration as an example, or Derby Dales which might remain a LabCon marginal.

    Its not a prediction of course but its the sort of supplemental data that would help more with constituency betting (nearer the time) than Baxter.
    In his own constituency he has under 2% signatures. I don't have a yardstick for that.

    But what is it with Carlisle?
    The geographic spread of it 300,000 people's views on the joint top issue du jour and the leading party in the polls main draw is useful data.
    In his constituency 5% of the 2024 turnout have signed. Thats fairly significant for a petition on mass deportation
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,667
    edited 11:38AM

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1968195697943208102?s=19

    Rupert's deportation petition heatmap is a useful guide to voting patterns in the next election. Discuss

    :lol: to the relatively high percentage in Lowe's constituency. He's been busy signing it repeatedly?

    Carlisle the other standout. Does his mum live there or something?

    ETA: on general point, maybe - but I suspect there are other proxies that are at least as useful or more useful, MRPs will capture more, plus inclination to actually vote. The response rate is too low to read too much into it, I think - one locally high profile person (Lowe in his constituency for example) can easily get a few tens/low hundreds signed up which massively skews the picture.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,259
    Selebian said:

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1968195697943208102?s=19

    Rupert's deportation petition heatmap is a useful guide to voting patterns in the next election. Discuss

    :lol: to the relatively high percentage in Lowe's constituency. He's been busy signing it repeatedly?

    Carlisle the other standout. Does his mum live there or something?
    Hes pretty popular in Yarmouth tbf
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,542
    Sandpit said:

    Barnesian said:

    "AN advertising van displaying an image of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein together has been confiscated by police, according to campaigners.

    The group People vs Elon had been displaying the van in Windsor on Wednesday morning as the US president is in the UK on a state visit."

    Just happened.
    Maybe JDVance was right about the UK and free speech?

    That’s an embarrassing breach of security in Windsor, but it’s difficult to see what they’ve done to be detained for the laws it’s claimed they’ve broken.

    Embarrassing the government and visiting dignitaries isn’t illegal, yet.

    Edit: is this a second incident, he first being the projector in front of the castle last night?
    It is a second incident. "The National understands that journalists in attendance were held and questioned by police for around 30 minutes."
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