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Oh, Mandy, Well, you came, And you gave without taking, But I sent you away – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,677
edited September 11 in General
Oh, Mandy, Well, you came, And you gave without taking, But I sent you away – politicalbetting.com

23 hours ago Starmer gave Mandelson his full backing. We all knew this had to happen, why was the Prime Minister the last person to understand that Mandelson had to go? pic.twitter.com/tvjrnvCuVX

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,034
    To be a true Blair tribute act Starmer will have to find a different job for Mandelson in a year or two.

    Chancellor of the Exchequer?
  • A very poetic header.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,039
    Cleverly is also quite obviously wrong with the "last person" stuff.
    There's Mandelson himself, who had to be sacked. And perhaps our own HYUFD ?
  • To be a true Blair tribute act Starmer will have to find a different job for Mandelson in a year or two.

    Chancellor of the Exchequer?

    The Chancellor has to be in the Commons, realistically.

    But David Cameron has just texted me to suggest a scandal-hit Foreign Secretary in the House of Lords is not out of the question.
  • The real question imo is whether Mandelson played any part in removing David Lammy from the Foreign Office.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,159
    @dmehro.bsky.social‬

    NEW: We got access to Jeffrey Epstein’s personal Yahoo inbox — more than 18,000 emails.

    It shows Epstein’s world in his own words: an unfiltered look at how his operation worked, who enabled it, and how Ghislaine Maxwell stayed at the center of it all.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dmehro.bsky.social/post/3lykkh55d2k2q
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,753

    A very poetic header.

    Subtle.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,660
    Scott_xP said:

    @dmehro.bsky.social‬

    NEW: We got access to Jeffrey Epstein’s personal Yahoo inbox — more than 18,000 emails.

    It shows Epstein’s world in his own words: an unfiltered look at how his operation worked, who enabled it, and how Ghislaine Maxwell stayed at the center of it all.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dmehro.bsky.social/post/3lykkh55d2k2q

    And the real damnned link can be found here: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2025-jeffrey-epstein-emails-ghislaine-maxwell/?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTc1NzU4MTg1MywiZXhwIjoxNzU4MTg2NjUzLCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJUMkYyQ0tHUEZIUUUwMCIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJGOEM4RUQ0NDZENzU0QjY2QUUwMzY4QzkzQjE4OEFEQiJ9.-WI92AWhRNCK_GFn6Fk_Su-tzVa2RIU9pSwno562y_4&leadSource=uverify wall
  • DeclanFDeclanF Posts: 73
    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,010
    @TSE


    Id have preferred this.

    It also happens to be a favourite of mine

    https://youtu.be/3HzJ5Rg908k?si=rhROc5srmAqnYHjv
  • eekeek Posts: 31,230

    The real question imo is whether Mandelson played any part in removing David Lammy from the Foreign Office.

    I think it was more how you remove Cooper from the Home Office without it looking like a demotion...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,188
    Nigelb said:

    Cleverly is also quite obviously wrong with the "last person" stuff.
    There's Mandelson himself, who had to be sacked. And perhaps our own HYUFD ?

    Yes, I bet you didn't have HYUFD backs Mandelson on your bingo card.

    TBF I thought this one would blow over, until the eMails. A salutary lesson for Labour politicians. BigG. almost always gets his man.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,984

    To be a true Blair tribute act Starmer will have to find a different job for Mandelson in a year or two.

    Chancellor of the Exchequer?

    The Chancellor has to be in the Commons, realistically.

    But David Cameron has just texted me to suggest a scandal-hit Foreign Secretary in the House of Lords is not out of the question.
    That's a bit unnecessary. Cameron performed his role as FS very well, coming back into politics when he had no need to. Far better than his successors so far. And the 'scandal' around him was nowhere near as murky as the stench that hangs around Mandelson.

    I feel there's another issue here. We've had *six* foreign secretaries in five years. True, we've had a change of government, but that's not good.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,188
    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    Curry favour?
    That's Starmer done then!
  • DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    Access to power and influence, and free holidays. Remember who was on the yacht with George Osborne.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,159
    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    @dsquareddigest.bsky.social‬

    I think a lot of well meaning good government types should be thinking closely about Peter Mandelson, and how dangerous it is for a politician to earn enough to give them a taste for yachts, but not enough to afford a yacht of their own.



    He liked partying with rick folk.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,159
    @SkyNews

    BREAKING: FBI officials in Utah have confirmed they have recovered the weapon believed to have been used to kill right-wing activist Charlie Kirk, and have also confirmed the shooter's movements.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,042
    I can never now hear that song without thinking of Homer Simpson's version:

    Oh Margie,
    You came and you found me a turkey,
    On my vacation away from work-ey.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyjNqAUfX5g
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,362
    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    It's curious the hold Epstein was able to have over some people - Mandelson seemed absolutely besotted. Yet others felt seriously uneasy the moment they clapped eyes on him and ran a mile.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,159
    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,159

    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    It's curious the hold Epstein was able to have over some people - Mandelson seemed absolutely besotted. Yet others felt seriously uneasy the moment they clapped eyes on him and ran a mile.
    Mandelson's drug of choice is power, and Epstein had lots
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,159
    edited September 11
    TBF, he does look totally miserable EDIT: Or had a stroke...

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lykudvszue26
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,115
    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    That’s a difficult question to speculate on without risking the descent of lawyers.
  • Taz said:

    @TSE


    Id have preferred this.

    It also happens to be a favourite of mine

    https://youtu.be/3HzJ5Rg908k?si=rhROc5srmAqnYHjv

    I like that too but I went for my choice as it was more subtle.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,108

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    BREAKING: FBI officials in Utah have confirmed they have recovered the weapon believed to have been used to kill right-wing activist Charlie Kirk, and have also confirmed the shooter's movements.

    A gun and a stool sample. Impressive work.
    The culprit must be shitting himself...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,188
    ...
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    BREAKING: FBI officials in Utah have confirmed they have recovered the weapon believed to have been used to kill right-wing activist Charlie Kirk, and have also confirmed the shooter's movements.

    A gun and a stool sample. Impressive work.
    The culprit must be shitting himself...
    Was Trump was the shooter?
  • Scott_xP said:

    TBF, he does look totally miserable EDIT: Or had a stroke...

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lykudvszue26

    To be fair to Trump given what happened to him a year ago and what happened to Charlie Kirk yesterday I wouldn’t be too keen on sitting outside like that.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,159
    @JenniferJJacobs

    FBI and Utah law enforcement have located who they believe to be the suspect in Charlie Kirk shooting, and have good video of the person. FBI said they've located what they think is the weapon, a high-powered bolt-action rifle. They didn't release a photo of the suspect. via
    @CBSNews
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,094
    Kissed me and stopped me from shaking
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,387
    Foss said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @dmehro.bsky.social‬

    NEW: We got access to Jeffrey Epstein’s personal Yahoo inbox — more than 18,000 emails.

    It shows Epstein’s world in his own words: an unfiltered look at how his operation worked, who enabled it, and how Ghislaine Maxwell stayed at the center of it all.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dmehro.bsky.social/post/3lykkh55d2k2q

    And the real damnned link can be found here: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2025-jeffrey-epstein-emails-ghislaine-maxwell/?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTc1NzU4MTg1MywiZXhwIjoxNzU4MTg2NjUzLCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJUMkYyQ0tHUEZIUUUwMCIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJGOEM4RUQ0NDZENzU0QjY2QUUwMzY4QzkzQjE4OEFEQiJ9.-WI92AWhRNCK_GFn6Fk_Su-tzVa2RIU9pSwno562y_4&leadSource=uverify wall
    That is a fantastic article, and well worth a read.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,686
    America is in a really bad place isn't it. Though some idiots set fire to an MPs office last night so I worry that we're not far behind.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Kissed me and stopped me from shaking

    Is that a quote from Mandy with relation to...?

    Never mind, I'll save the lawyers a job and shut up now
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,159
    @freddiejh8

    NEW: Top US Congressman @RoKhanna says that Peter Mandelson "is the first example of many that will follow when the files are released".

    Says "rich and powerful men" who covered for Epstein "must be held accountable".

    https://x.com/freddiejh8/status/1966135318593286572
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,984
    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
  • MaxPB said:

    America is in a really bad place isn't it. Though some idiots set fire to an MPs office last night so I worry that we're not far behind.

    The major difference is the lack of guns here.

    I was looking a few weeks ago and worked out that more politicians have been murdered in my lifetime in the UK than America.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,039

    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    It's curious the hold Epstein was able to have over some people - Mandelson seemed absolutely besotted. Yet others felt seriously uneasy the moment they clapped eyes on him and ran a mile.
    In that respect, not entirely unlike Trump.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,871
    Suggestions online that FBI may have recovered a rifle in conjunction with the Charlie Kirk murder.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,439
    edited September 11
    Some poor sod is going to get thrown under the bus to save skin of more "important" people after the inevitable review into failures of the vetting process.

    So there is a huge question about why the vetting process did not identify those public documents and conclude that Mandelson was unfit to fill such a high and important public office.

    https://x.com/Peston/status/1966089399969468896?s=19
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,034
    edited September 11
    MaxPB said:

    America is in a really bad place isn't it. Though some idiots set fire to an MPs office last night so I worry that we're not far behind.

    We've had two murdered MPs in less than a decade.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,924
    moonshine said:

    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    That’s a difficult question to speculate on without risking the descent of lawyers.
    Epstein was both extremely wealthy personally and plugged into a network of similarly wealthy & powerful people. Making connections between those people and placing himself at the centre of his network was both how he made his money and how he cemented his position in society. This was the man who introduced JP Morgan’s private wealth business to Larry Page. What do you think that was worth to JP Morgan? Quite a lot I’d imagine.

    What would it be worth to be a valued member of Epstein’s inner circle, one who could participate in these deals as they floated past & be in regular contact with the most powerful & wealthiest people in the world, recommended by Epstein as a person worth doing business with? A lot, I’d imagine.

    I would suggest, therefore, that the benefits of currying favour with Epstein are fairly obvious: access, influence & potentially great personal wealth. I think many people, if they were unfamiliar with the less savoury ways Epstein operated, might think him someone well worth cultivating.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,188

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    What an utterly stupid post. Bringing political partisanship into the disgusting murders of two MPs because of their political allegiance is ludicrous.

    I know the Amess family are frustrated with both this and the previous Government but "Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten" is a depressing and untrue comment. I haven't forgotten either and I can tell you where I was when I heard the news about each of them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,387

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,060

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    Timing. It was politically useful for people to say Jo Cox's murderer was motivated by Brexit, whether or not that was true. Or at least he was enabled by the atmosphere of the campaign. I assume no conclusive link was found to Brexit, or we'd never have heard the end of it.

    I suspect, sadly, that her being a young woman and Amess being an old man is another part of it.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,137
    Scott_xP said:

    @dmehro.bsky.social‬

    NEW: We got access to Jeffrey Epstein’s personal Yahoo inbox — more than 18,000 emails.

    It shows Epstein’s world in his own words: an unfiltered look at how his operation worked, who enabled it, and how Ghislaine Maxwell stayed at the center of it all.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dmehro.bsky.social/post/3lykkh55d2k2q

    The woman who Trump has moved to a low security prison, against standard practice for someone convicted of her offences.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,387
    edited September 11
    moonshine said:

    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    That’s a difficult question to speculate on without risking the descent of lawyers.
    I think it's a mistake to think Epstein's pull was solely sex.

    He also had money, and as the Bloomberg article that trawls through Ghislaine's emails shows, he was not shy about using it to curry favour with people who had none.

    So, Bill Richardson (former NM Governor) got to use a private plane, and Bill Clinton got a $35k watch (and yes, I'm sure there were plenty of poor Republicans that got to live the high life too.)

    And it's not like Mandelson doesn't have form about accepting hospitality from -say- Russian oligarchs.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,984
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,200
    edited September 11
    Whatever you think about Mandelson and his sometimes poor judgement overall he is competent at the jobs he does, whether as Business or NI Secretary or in his most recent post as DC Ambassador. He is also ruthlessly effective as a campaigner, it was Mandelson who helped Kinnock bring back Labour from the abyss after their 1983 Foot led rout, it was Mandelson who played a key part in New Labour's landslide of 1997 and it was Mandelson who helped Brown narrow the gap in 2010 enough for a hung parliament, hence he never sacked him. Mandelson also worked behind the scenes on Starmer's 2024 win after the defeats of the Corbyn and Ed Miliband years.

    He is gone for now but he may be back, as he has been before. Not as an elected politician or grand Ambassador, but as an effective behind the scenes man
  • Even Dale Vince thinks Ed Miliband has gone too far on North Sea Oil and Gas...

    Ed Miliband must embrace the declining North Sea by offering subsidies to oil and gas companies operating in the basin, Dale Vince has said.

    Mr Vince, the green energy tycoon who is also a Labour donor, said companies that operate in the North Sea should be given a guaranteed minimum price per barrel of oil and gas to put them on an equal footing with renewable energy providers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/11/dale-vince-urges-ed-miliband-to-subsidise-north-sea-oil-gas/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,444

    MaxPB said:

    America is in a really bad place isn't it. Though some idiots set fire to an MPs office last night so I worry that we're not far behind.

    The major difference is the lack of guns here.

    I was looking a few weeks ago and worked out that more politicians have been murdered in my lifetime in the UK than America.
    The one state had an insurgency in part of it. The other, not so much.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,039

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
    Airey Neave.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
    You’re of a similar age to me and in our lifetimes six MPs have been murdered, one by a far right extremist, one by a Muslim terrorist, and four by Christian terrorists.

    I’d add Cllr Andrew Pennington who was murdered trying to stop a mentally ill murdering an MP.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,984

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    What an utterly stupid post. Bringing political partisanship into the disgusting murders of two MPs because of their political allegiance is ludicrous.

    I know the Amess family are frustrated with both this and the previous Government but "Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten" is a depressing and untrue comment. I haven't forgotten either and I can tell you where I was when I heard the news about each of them.
    It is not untrue. *You* may not have forgotten, but the media seem far more keen to mention Cox more than Amess.

    Which is a shame, as the reasons for their murders says a lot about some political extremes, and we are better off if we remember both in connection with each other.

    What we are seeing is political allegiance - Cox was Labour and female. Amess was Tory and male. And before you complain, remember how Corbyn invited two IRA members to parliament soon after the Brighton bombings.

    I'd also give a mention to Andrew Pennington, who died when Nigel Jones was attacked.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,444

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
    You’re of a similar age to me and in our lifetimes six MPs have been murdered, one by a far right extremist, one by a Muslim terrorist, and four by Christian terrorists.

    I’d add Cllr Andrew Pennington who was murdered trying to stop a mentally ill murdering an MP.
    HoL too. Lord Mountbatten.
  • Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    America is in a really bad place isn't it. Though some idiots set fire to an MPs office last night so I worry that we're not far behind.

    The major difference is the lack of guns here.

    I was looking a few weeks ago and worked out that more politicians have been murdered in my lifetime in the UK than America.
    The one state had an insurgency in part of it. The other, not so much.
    As a child I read about the assassination of the Kennedys and Lincoln and with the second amendment just assumed it was endemic over there.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,960

    Some poor sod is going to get thrown under the bus to save skin of more "important" people after the inevitable review into failures of the vetting process.

    So there is a huge question about why the vetting process did not identify those public documents and conclude that Mandelson was unfit to fill such a high and important public office.

    https://x.com/Peston/status/1966089399969468896?s=19

    Since his previous didn't disqualify him, why should this?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,882
    Sandpit said:

    Suggestions online that FBI may have recovered a rifle in conjunction with the Charlie Kirk murder.

    Investigators have other evidence that could help them identify and track down the killer, the special agent in charge of the F.B.I.’s Salt Lake City field office said in a news conference. That evidence includes a palm imprint, a forearm imprint and a “footwear impression.”

    NY Times blog
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,200

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
    You’re of a similar age to me and in our lifetimes six MPs have been murdered, one by a far right extremist, one by a Muslim terrorist, and four by Christian terrorists.

    I’d add Cllr Andrew Pennington who was murdered trying to stop a mentally ill murdering an MP.
    Since when were the IRA Christian terrorists?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,871

    Even Dale Vince thinks Ed Miliband has gone too far on North Sea Oil and Gas...

    Ed Miliband must embrace the declining North Sea by offering subsidies to oil and gas companies operating in the basin, Dale Vince has said.

    Mr Vince, the green energy tycoon who is also a Labour donor, said companies that operate in the North Sea should be given a guaranteed minimum price per barrel of oil and gas to put them on an equal footing with renewable energy providers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/11/dale-vince-urges-ed-miliband-to-subsidise-north-sea-oil-gas/

    LOL, if Dale Vince is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    Alternatively, he’s worried that there’s going to be an almighty backlash against energy subsidies and high bills.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,444

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    America is in a really bad place isn't it. Though some idiots set fire to an MPs office last night so I worry that we're not far behind.

    The major difference is the lack of guns here.

    I was looking a few weeks ago and worked out that more politicians have been murdered in my lifetime in the UK than America.
    The one state had an insurgency in part of it. The other, not so much.
    As a child I read about the assassination of the Kennedys and Lincoln and with the second amendment just assumed it was endemic over there.
    Does MLK not count as a pol? That's three already.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,706
    edited September 11
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
    You’re of a similar age to me and in our lifetimes six MPs have been murdered, one by a far right extremist, one by a Muslim terrorist, and four by Christian terrorists.

    I’d add Cllr Andrew Pennington who was murdered trying to stop a mentally ill murdering an MP.
    Since when were the IRA Christian terrorists?
    They said their objectives was to free Catholics who were being persecuted.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,426

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
    In today's context it's difficult to believe the LDs decided to contest the Eastbourne by-election.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,188
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I am not entirely sure that is correct. Amess was a right wing Conservative with whom I had zero commonality. Nonetheless, I was absolutely stunned by his vile murder. In some respects his was more shocking than Cox's murder because he was a longstanding and high profile MP, whereas I'd never previously heard of the diminutive Cox.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,200
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whatever you think about Mandelson and his sometimes poor judgement overall he is competent at the jobs he does, whether as Business or NI Secretary or in his most recent post as DC Ambassador. He is also ruthlessly effective as a campaigner, it was Mandelson who helped Kinnock bring back Labour from the abyss after their 1983 Foot led rout, it was Mandelson who played a key part in New Labour's landslide of 1997 and it was Mandelson who helped Brown narrow the gap in 2010 enough for a hung parliament, hence he never sacked him. Mandelson also worked behind the scenes on Starmer's 2024 win after the defeats of the Corbyn and Ed Miliband years.

    He is gone for now but he may be back, as he has been before. Not as an elected politician or grand Ambassador, but as an effective behind the scenes man

    I have found that employing lying scumbags because they are "good at their jobs" is not a recipe for long term success.

    Not -for the record- that I am alleging that anyone in particular is a lying scumbag.
    Depends what job, plenty of lawyers and journalists and politicians have been very successful at their jobs despite being lying scumbags
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,686

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
    You’re of a similar age to me and in our lifetimes six MPs have been murdered, one by a far right extremist, one by a Muslim terrorist, and four by Christian terrorists.

    I’d add Cllr Andrew Pennington who was murdered trying to stop a mentally ill murdering an MP.
    Since when were the IRA Christian terrorists?
    They said their objectives to free Catholics who were being persecuted.
    Surely they were Republican terrorists. I mean it's in the name.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,230
    edited September 11

    Sandpit said:

    Suggestions online that FBI may have recovered a rifle in conjunction with the Charlie Kirk murder.

    Investigators have other evidence that could help them identify and track down the killer, the special agent in charge of the F.B.I.’s Salt Lake City field office said in a news conference. That evidence includes a palm imprint, a forearm imprint and a “footwear impression.”

    NY Times blog
    I’m reminded of the Principal’s announcement in Grease after the blue moon mooning on national TV
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,010

    Taz said:

    @TSE


    Id have preferred this.

    It also happens to be a favourite of mine

    https://youtu.be/3HzJ5Rg908k?si=rhROc5srmAqnYHjv

    I like that too but I went for my choice as it was more subtle.
    You just,like camp over hard rock TSE
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,088
    edited September 11
    Sky reporting Security Services raised issues about Mandelson and No 10 overruled them

    Considerable dismay in the Security Serviced about the blame game

    This is quite some development
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    America is in a really bad place isn't it. Though some idiots set fire to an MPs office last night so I worry that we're not far behind.

    The major difference is the lack of guns here.

    I was looking a few weeks ago and worked out that more politicians have been murdered in my lifetime in the UK than America.
    The one state had an insurgency in part of it. The other, not so much.
    As a child I read about the assassination of the Kennedys and Lincoln and with the second amendment just assumed it was endemic over there.
    Does MLK not count as a pol? That's three already.
    I suppose it should I was being strict on my elected officials criteria, which excludes both MLK and Lord Mountbatten.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,200
    edited September 11

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
    You’re of a similar age to me and in our lifetimes six MPs have been murdered, one by a far right extremist, one by a Muslim terrorist, and four by Christian terrorists.

    I’d add Cllr Andrew Pennington who was murdered trying to stop a mentally ill murdering an MP.
    Since when were the IRA Christian terrorists?
    They said their objectives was to free Catholics who were being persecuted.
    Their main objective was to 'free' Northern Ireland and Ulster from British rule and create a United Ireland ie nationalism not religion, they also targeted Northern Irish and British Protestants who are and were as Christian as Catholics
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,660
    There have also been some very close calls: Thatcher, Major, Timms.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    Just seen an update from Sky that Mandleson was appointed 'despite security concerns'

    If so...Starmer is in real danger.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,984

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
    You’re of a similar age to me and in our lifetimes six MPs have been murdered, one by a far right extremist, one by a Muslim terrorist, and four by Christian terrorists.

    I’d add Cllr Andrew Pennington who was murdered trying to stop a mentally ill murdering an MP.
    That's why I said "political time" : i.e. when I've had a serious political interest.

    Though there's a plaque to the murderer of Spencer Perceval in my local town...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,984

    Just seen an update from Sky that Mandleson was appointed 'despite security concerns'

    If so...Starmer is in real danger.

    I would be unsurprised if the 'security concerns' had little to do with Epstein.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,010

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    His daughter is fighting for justice but seems to be being stymied along the way.

    I agree with you on this. Both are awful.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,444

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    America is in a really bad place isn't it. Though some idiots set fire to an MPs office last night so I worry that we're not far behind.

    The major difference is the lack of guns here.

    I was looking a few weeks ago and worked out that more politicians have been murdered in my lifetime in the UK than America.
    The one state had an insurgency in part of it. The other, not so much.
    As a child I read about the assassination of the Kennedys and Lincoln and with the second amendment just assumed it was endemic over there.
    Does MLK not count as a pol? That's three already.
    I suppose it should I was being strict on my elected officials criteria, which excludes both MLK and Lord Mountbatten.
    Fair enough. Was going with your 'politician', that's all.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,265
    As it’s a bit crappy in the world I thought I would post a fun story about Richard Harris I just read in an interview with Jared Harris.

    “ I used to go and have a drink with my dad at the the Coach and Horses at the back of Covent Garden. They have really good Guinness. It’s also the place where my father had his last fight. It was summer. He was sitting outside having a pint. My father would have two sorts of interactions with Irish people. One would be very positive. The other, they’d say: “What the fuck have you ever done for Ireland?” He was having the second interaction with this Irish woman and lost his patience.

    He said: “I can forgive many things. I can forgive ignorance, because that’s not your fault. That’s the fault of your education. I can forgive bad manners. Again, not your fault if your parents just didn’t bring you up properly. But the one thing I cannot forgive is ugliness, and you’re the ugliest woman I’ve ever seen in my life. Now fuck off.”

    So she goes inside, gets her boyfriend, who comes out and says [does Irish accent]: “You called my girlfriend ugly. Stand up if you’re a man.” So dad sucker-punched him and knocked him out. He was on the floor, cracked his head, and the girl started jumping up and down, going [does Irish accent]: “Dickie Harris has killed me boyfriend! Dickie Harris has killed me boyfriend!” Dad wasn’t sure what had happened, so he grabbed his Guinness and chucked it in the guy’s face, which brought him round immediately. But he was a big boy and Dad knew that he wasn’t going to win round two, so he leapt into a taxi and took off.”
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,871

    Sky reporting Security Services raised issues about Mandelson and No 10 overruled them

    Considerable dismay in the Security Serviced about the blame game

    This is quite some development

    Oh, so the PM is about to get into an argument with Thames House over Mandelson?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,444

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
    You’re of a similar age to me and in our lifetimes six MPs have been murdered, one by a far right extremist, one by a Muslim terrorist, and four by Christian terrorists.

    I’d add Cllr Andrew Pennington who was murdered trying to stop a mentally ill murdering an MP.
    That's why I said "political time" : i.e. when I've had a serious political interest.

    Though there's a plaque to the murderer of Spencer Perceval in my local town...
    Murder or murderer? It's an interesting case -
    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6762154/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,706
    edited September 11
    Foss said:

    There have also been some very close calls: Thatcher, Major, Timms.

    Not just Thatcher and Major, had the attacks succeeded then most of the cabinet at the time would have been wiped out.

    It was a curious thing that Michael Heseltine missed both events, during the Brighton bombing Heseltine was in Rome for a NATO meeting and during the Downing Street attack he wasn’t there as he wasn’t a member of the war cabinet.

    Fun fact, I’ve stood in the Downing Street garden where the IRA mortars landed, and a few feet further they would have wiped out the war cabinet, it would have taken out not just top echelons of the cabinet but top echelons of the British military and intelligence services.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,678
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
    You’re of a similar age to me and in our lifetimes six MPs have been murdered, one by a far right extremist, one by a Muslim terrorist, and four by Christian terrorists.

    I’d add Cllr Andrew Pennington who was murdered trying to stop a mentally ill murdering an MP.
    Since when were the IRA Christian terrorists?
    They said their objectives was to free Catholics who were being persecuted.
    Their main objective was to 'free' Northern Ireland and Ulster from British rule and create a United Ireland ie nationalism not religion, they also targeted Northern Irish and British Protestants who are and were as Christian as Catholics
    Depends on your definition of 'Christian'. I've known NI Protestants who objected to the description of Roman Catholics as Christian. And Catholics who've argued the same about Evangelical Protestants.
    To be fair, not recently; things have moved on a lot during my lifetime.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,108
    Scott_xP said:

    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    It's curious the hold Epstein was able to have over some people - Mandelson seemed absolutely besotted. Yet others felt seriously uneasy the moment they clapped eyes on him and ran a mile.
    Mandelson's drug of choice is power, and Epstein had lots
    The other mysterious thing is quite how Epstein got so rich, while being so generous to everyone that he met.

    Someone was paying for all this.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,188
    HYUFD said:

    Whatever you think about Mandelson and his sometimes poor judgement overall he is competent at the jobs he does, whether as Business or NI Secretary or in his most recent post as DC Ambassador. He is also ruthlessly effective as a campaigner, it was Mandelson who helped Kinnock bring back Labour from the abyss after their 1983 Foot led rout, it was Mandelson who played a key part in New Labour's landslide of 1997 and it was Mandelson who helped Brown narrow the gap in 2010 enough for a hung parliament, hence he never sacked him. Mandelson also worked behind the scenes on Starmer's 2024 win after the defeats of the Corbyn and Ed Miliband years.

    He is gone for now but he may be back, as he has been before. Not as an elected politician or grand Ambassador, but as an effective behind the scenes man

    Have you never had to sack someone who was supremely good at their job but cut corners and took risks which jeopardised everyone elses future employment?

    At that very moment one asks them for their company car keys one's heart sinks because you know they would be the one that one could count on to hit their targets and yours.

    I once went to the county court in Swansea to recover money owed from a guy called Jones. I had put my case before the Judge? and Jones put up little defence. The Judge awarded my company everything that I had requested. As I gathered my papers I noticed that my salesman had himself signed the sales documents on behalf of Jones but with the name Davies. I said nothing, but when I got back I sacked the lying f*****.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,706
    edited September 11
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    It's curious the hold Epstein was able to have over some people - Mandelson seemed absolutely besotted. Yet others felt seriously uneasy the moment they clapped eyes on him and ran a mile.
    Mandelson's drug of choice is power, and Epstein had lots
    The other mysterious thing is quite how Epstein got so rich, while being so generous to everyone that he met.

    Someone was paying for all this.
    I work in an industry where Epstein helped bring down a big name or two.

    The talk (and there’s plenty of evidence) that his fortune came from Israeli intelligence in exchange for well intelligence and kompromat.

    Fun fact, Ghislaine Maxwell’s father was a longstanding agent of Mossad.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,871
    FBI press conference.

    https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1966130355745718669

    The suspect arrived on campus at 11:52am, walked across campus, and accessed a rooftop from a stairwell.

    After the shooting, he ran to the other side of the building, jumped off the rooftop, and fled into the neighborhood.

    That's where investigators found the doorbell camera footage of him.

    They’re not releasing the CCTV footage yet, instead are first using technology to attempt to identify the shooter.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,188

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    It's curious the hold Epstein was able to have over some people - Mandelson seemed absolutely besotted. Yet others felt seriously uneasy the moment they clapped eyes on him and ran a mile.
    Mandelson's drug of choice is power, and Epstein had lots
    The other mysterious thing is quite how Epstein got so rich, while being so generous to everyone that he met.

    Someone was paying for all this.
    I work in an industry where Epstein helped bring down a big name or two.

    The talk (and there’s plenty of evidence) that his fortune came from Israeli intelligence in exchange for well intelligence and kompromat.

    Fun fact Ghislaine Maxwell’s father was a longstanding agent of Mossad.
    Wasn't Herbert Morrison a keen Zionist?
  • Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    It's curious the hold Epstein was able to have over some people - Mandelson seemed absolutely besotted. Yet others felt seriously uneasy the moment they clapped eyes on him and ran a mile.
    Mandelson's drug of choice is power, and Epstein had lots
    The other mysterious thing is quite how Epstein got so rich, while being so generous to everyone that he met.

    Someone was paying for all this.
    I work in an industry where Epstein helped bring down a big name or two.

    The talk (and there’s plenty of evidence) that his fortune came from Israeli intelligence in exchange for well intelligence and kompromat.

    Fun fact, Ghislaine Maxwell’s father was a longstanding agent of Mossad.
    And both men died in mysterious circumstances.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,354
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
    You’re of a similar age to me and in our lifetimes six MPs have been murdered, one by a far right extremist, one by a Muslim terrorist, and four by Christian terrorists.

    I’d add Cllr Andrew Pennington who was murdered trying to stop a mentally ill murdering an MP.
    Since when were the IRA Christian terrorists?
    They said their objectives was to free Catholics who were being persecuted.
    Their main objective was to 'free' Northern Ireland and Ulster from British rule and create a United Ireland ie nationalism not religion, they also targeted Northern Irish and British Protestants who are and were as Christian as Catholics
    "Protestants who are and were as Christian as Catholics"

    That would be an ecumenical matter.
  • Sandpit said:

    FBI press conference.

    https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1966130355745718669

    The suspect arrived on campus at 11:52am, walked across campus, and accessed a rooftop from a stairwell.

    After the shooting, he ran to the other side of the building, jumped off the rooftop, and fled into the neighborhood.

    That's where investigators found the doorbell camera footage of him.

    They’re not releasing the CCTV footage yet, instead are first using technology to attempt to identify the shooter.

    Finally, a use for ChatGPT.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,354
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whatever you think about Mandelson and his sometimes poor judgement overall he is competent at the jobs he does, whether as Business or NI Secretary or in his most recent post as DC Ambassador. He is also ruthlessly effective as a campaigner, it was Mandelson who helped Kinnock bring back Labour from the abyss after their 1983 Foot led rout, it was Mandelson who played a key part in New Labour's landslide of 1997 and it was Mandelson who helped Brown narrow the gap in 2010 enough for a hung parliament, hence he never sacked him. Mandelson also worked behind the scenes on Starmer's 2024 win after the defeats of the Corbyn and Ed Miliband years.

    He is gone for now but he may be back, as he has been before. Not as an elected politician or grand Ambassador, but as an effective behind the scenes man

    I have found that employing lying scumbags because they are "good at their jobs" is not a recipe for long term success.

    Not -for the record- that I am alleging that anyone in particular is a lying scumbag.
    Depends what job, plenty of lawyers and journalists and politicians have been very successful at their jobs despite being lying scumbags
    Do you put Bozo on that list?
  • eekeek Posts: 31,230

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    It's curious the hold Epstein was able to have over some people - Mandelson seemed absolutely besotted. Yet others felt seriously uneasy the moment they clapped eyes on him and ran a mile.
    Mandelson's drug of choice is power, and Epstein had lots
    The other mysterious thing is quite how Epstein got so rich, while being so generous to everyone that he met.

    Someone was paying for all this.
    I work in an industry where Epstein helped bring down a big name or two.

    The talk (and there’s plenty of evidence) that his fortune came from Israeli intelligence in exchange for well intelligence and kompromat.

    Fun fact, Ghislaine Maxwell’s father was a longstanding agent of Mossad.
    And both men died in mysterious circumstances.
    Mossad have more imagination than the Kremlin
  • Sandpit said:

    FBI press conference.

    https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1966130355745718669

    The suspect arrived on campus at 11:52am, walked across campus, and accessed a rooftop from a stairwell.

    After the shooting, he ran to the other side of the building, jumped off the rooftop, and fled into the neighborhood.

    That's where investigators found the doorbell camera footage of him.

    They’re not releasing the CCTV footage yet, instead are first using technology to attempt to identify the shooter.

    Finally, a use for ChatGPT.
    ChatGPT5...thinking....thinking....thinking.....thinking.....27hrs later, 20 million tokens used.....Elvis.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,846

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @headfallsoff.com‬

    every time there's political violence discourse i think about how jo cox was assassinated in broad daylight by a fascist who shouted "britain first" as he shot her, and now nine years later her party is dedicating every moment in power to placating the ideology of her murderer

    https://bsky.app/profile/headfallsoff.com/post/3lyjfuonko223

    One of the saddest things in modern UK politics is the way Jo Cox has been elevated, whilst David Amess has been relatively forgotten. Both murdered by political/religious extremists.
    People pick whichever one matches their prejudices, and elevate that while minimizing the other.
    I try to remember both, and also Gow. I could go back further, but they're really beyond my political time.
    You’re of a similar age to me and in our lifetimes six MPs have been murdered, one by a far right extremist, one by a Muslim terrorist, and four by Christian terrorists.

    I’d add Cllr Andrew Pennington who was murdered trying to stop a mentally ill murdering an MP.
    Your regular reminder that the PIRA aren’t “Christian Terrorists”

    Terrorists are labeled by their aims, generally. The PIRA “claimed” to be the heirs of 1798 - which was a joint Protestant & Catholic undertaking - religious freedom for all. Hence the usual label of “Republican Terrorists”

    The Loyalists are (and were) very often simply anti-Catholic. Hence they are sometimes referred to as “Protestant Paramilitaries” or “Protestant Terrorists”

    Actual Christian Terrorists exist of course - classic would be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,159
    edited September 11
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,169

    Just seen an update from Sky that Mandleson was appointed 'despite security concerns'

    If so...Starmer is in real danger.

    I can't bear the thought of Lammy being in charge even temporarily.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,019

    Just seen an update from Sky that Mandleson was appointed 'despite security concerns'

    If so...Starmer is in real danger.

    Oooft - yep, that would do it, if there’s a smoking gun.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,678

    Just seen an update from Sky that Mandleson was appointed 'despite security concerns'

    If so...Starmer is in real danger.

    I can't bear the thought of Lammy being in charge even temporarily.
    I seem to recall some people thinking that appointing Mandelson was an inspired move.
  • Scott_xP said:
    He has been since last Sunday's politics shows
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,846
    s
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DeclanF said:

    What I don't get is why Mandelson was so keen to curry favour with Epstein? What was in it for him?

    It's curious the hold Epstein was able to have over some people - Mandelson seemed absolutely besotted. Yet others felt seriously uneasy the moment they clapped eyes on him and ran a mile.
    Mandelson's drug of choice is power, and Epstein had lots
    The other mysterious thing is quite how Epstein got so rich, while being so generous to everyone that he met.

    Someone was paying for all this.
    Until we get a thorough enquiry, it’s speculation.

    Epstein was running (he claimed) a money management service. One billionaire put all his money with Epstein. Epstein, apparently, charged higher than average fees for these services.

    Speculation was that he was either running a ponzi, a partial ponzi, and/or was using his evil services as combined blackmail and payment to use his financial services.
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