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Punters think today was a good day for Wes Streeting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,667
edited September 5 in General
Punters think today was a good day for Wes Streeting – politicalbetting.com

I think it is amusing that Angela Rayner is still rated as a better chance of becoming PM than the Chancellor which says so much about tenure of Rachel Reeves.

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  • boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Your comments of the last few days strongly indicated you'd be delighted to see Rayner humiliated and forced to resign. I'm not quite sure why though I suspect it's to do with what she said about Conservatives while in Opposition.

    All of that being said, none of this sits well with me.

    Since the Expenses Crisis, successive Governments have imposed levels of probity on Ministers and MPs which are draconian in extremis. As with other Prime Ministers, Starmer wants his Cabinet team to be seen to be beyond reproach when it comes to their personal financial affairs so while we can live with incompetence and stupidity, at least we don't have to live with corruption (apparently).

    Rayner has made mistakes and breached the MInisterial Code making her position untenable. Had I done the same, I imagine I'd be looking at having to repay the unpaid Stamp Duty and perhaps a penalty but I wouldn't lose my job over it and this is where I'm uncomfortable with all this and was when it was applied to Conservatives.

    We penalise mistakes rather than malevolence. Yes, let's go after Ministers who receive money from third party lobbying companies but this is Rayner's private domestic arrangements. I don't think she should be sacked for what she has done but the Ministerial Code dictates otherwise and them's the rules currently.
    For most politicians then most would be a bit fairer but Rayner set herself up as the scourge of those who had made errors whether innocent errors or egregious. If you decide to make yourself the witch finder General make sure you don’t do anything that looks like witchcraft.

    She was relentless and unsparing in her calls for resignations and fire aimed at people who structured theor finances tax efficiently. Live by the sword etc.
    But let's not pretend this was similar. She didn't structure things tax efficiently. Quite the opposite.
    That might be true but like most things now it’s the optics and she failed them. Hopefully it’s a lesson to other politicians to get their shit together or, when people make mistakes for the right reasons, don’t get on a soapbox and demand resignation.
    Always worth having a look / think about who goes missing when such a scandal hits the news.
  • Hamas has released a video showing two Israeli hostages seized from a music festival during its cross-border attack in October 2023.

    The video claims to show Guy Gilboa-Dalal in Gaza City in late August, where he says he and eight others are being held and will remain despite Israel's planned ground offensive. It also shows captive Alon Ohel.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,842
    Well, Starmer has lost Supertanskii so the writing must be on the wall. The age of Wesley dawns
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,588
    I think it is amusing that Angela Rayner is still rated as a better chance of becoming PM than the Chancellor which says so much about tenure of Rachel Reeves is like saying it is amusing that Hartlepool have a better chance of winning the Premiership than Accrington Stanley.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,370
    What does it matter if Streeting's star rises if the government cannot get a grip of key problems?
  • Wes Streeting - striking a blow for da North Ilford Ghetto!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,957
    Streeting wouldn't win either the MPs nor the membership. He only gets the gig if it's a coronation, and I don't see that happening.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,957

    Wes Streeting - striking a blow for da North Ilford Ghetto!

    North Ilford very likely to hand him his P45 next GE!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,376
    edited September 5
    Foxy said:

    Streeting wouldn't win either the MPs nor the membership. He only gets the gig if it's a coronation, and I don't see that happening.

    Sounds a bit like the problem the Tories have had, the most sensible candidate the membership absolutely do not want to entertain the idea of.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,209
    Foxy said:

    Streeting wouldn't win either the MPs nor the membership. He only gets the gig if it's a coronation, and I don't see that happening.

    If Sultana had stayed would she have enough support in the membership to have a chance of deputy leader?
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 211
    edited September 5
    kle4 said:

    What does it matter if Streeting's star rises if the government cannot get a grip of key problems?

    Will be interesting to see if the BBC does it's (formerly) annual NHS winter crisis hysteria. Streeting may want to opt out of the hospital pass that is health secretary if they bleat on about the normal fluctuations of the flu season as they used to.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,588
    I suspect the immediate result of Rayner’s departure will be
    Reform +
    Labour =
    Con -
    Lib Dem -

    Some Lab to Ref balanced by some Lib and a few Con to Lab

    We await the weekend polls.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,957
    boulay said:

    Foxy said:

    Streeting wouldn't win either the MPs nor the membership. He only gets the gig if it's a coronation, and I don't see that happening.

    If Sultana had stayed would she have enough support in the membership to have a chance of deputy leader?
    I don't think so. Expect someone soft Left.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,370
    boulay said:

    ohnotnow said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Confirmed: Douglas Alexander is the new Scotland Secretary.

    It is also an incredible comeback. He was in the Cabinet in the last Labour Government and was Scotland Sec under Tony Blair.

    Yes that's a real bridge back to those heady days. Oasis reunion and now this.
    Loved the 90s.
    It was a glorious time. We didn’t realise how unnaturally, and artificially, lucky a time it was. All the way up until 11 September 2001. What followed was 24 years (and counting) of disaster after disaster, financial crisis after financial crisis, and political and economic stagnation.

    In the mid to late 1990s we had low energy prices, a post Cold War peace dividend, golden demographics with a very low dependency ratio, affordable but buoyant housing market, naff but energetic popular culture, windfalls from bank demutualisations, a soaring stockmarket, and a string of very good summers peaking in 1995.

    The England cricket team was shit though.
    There have been worse decades, but much of the nineties felt stagnant, waiting for something to happen. Thatcherism was dead, but the Major years were a grey twilight. In large part that is what New Labour exploited, being young, fresh, and in full technicolour. I bought into it and for the first few years it worked.

    Since then we have been sold different snakeoils, from Brexit to Corbyn to Johnson. Now we await Farage's snakeoil. The nineties only look good in retrospect as a positive contrast to what came after. We never learn. Think things can't get worse? They always can.
    In retrospect, we haven’t had a prime minister as good as Major since, apart from pre Iraq Blair. Each PM since has been worse than their predecessor.
    Sunak was better than Truss, Starmer than Sunak.
    Sunak was better than Starmer too
    Surak was better than all of them.
    I think Sunak would have been a Major like PM if he had his turn in similar economic and social circumstances. Wouldn’t do anything radical but focussed on the bottom line (not Edwina’s) and general sound management but would likewise have been beset by internal party divisions.

    He chose to try as PM but he got a horrific set of circumstances so never had a chance with the time he had. Maybe if they had another three years he and Hunt could have done good things but again we will never know.
    It was a difficult time to become PM, to be sure, but it's not like he did a good job with the hand he was dealt either.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,050
    boulay said:

    Foxy said:

    Streeting wouldn't win either the MPs nor the membership. He only gets the gig if it's a coronation, and I don't see that happening.

    If Sultana had stayed would she have enough support in the membership to have a chance of deputy leader?
    No.
  • The Liberal Democrats have criticised Sir Keir's Starmer's ministerial reshuffle.

    Sir Ed Davey said: 'If Labour believes that having a reshuffle will solve the deep-rooted problems of this government, they are learning the wrong lessons from the calamity Conservatives before them.'

    The Lib Dem leader added: 'Until Keir Starmer is ready to grab the bull by the horns and confront the problems our country really faces, it makes little difference who sits where around the Cabinet table.'
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,175
    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Your comments of the last few days strongly indicated you'd be delighted to see Rayner humiliated and forced to resign. I'm not quite sure why though I suspect it's to do with what she said about Conservatives while in Opposition.

    All of that being said, none of this sits well with me.

    Since the Expenses Crisis, successive Governments have imposed levels of probity on Ministers and MPs which are draconian in extremis. As with other Prime Ministers, Starmer wants his Cabinet team to be seen to be beyond reproach when it comes to their personal financial affairs so while we can live with incompetence and stupidity, at least we don't have to live with corruption (apparently).

    Rayner has made mistakes and breached the MInisterial Code making her position untenable. Had I done the same, I imagine I'd be looking at having to repay the unpaid Stamp Duty and perhaps a penalty but I wouldn't lose my job over it and this is where I'm uncomfortable with all this and was when it was applied to Conservatives.

    We penalise mistakes rather than malevolence. Yes, let's go after Ministers who receive money from third party lobbying companies but this is Rayner's private domestic arrangements. I don't think she should be sacked for what she has done but the Ministerial Code dictates otherwise and them's the rules currently.
    For most politicians then most would be a bit fairer but Rayner set herself up as the scourge of those who had made errors whether innocent errors or egregious. If you decide to make yourself the witch finder General make sure you don’t do anything that looks like witchcraft.

    She was relentless and unsparing in her calls for resignations and fire aimed at people who structured theor finances tax efficiently. Live by the sword etc.
    But let's not pretend this was similar. She didn't structure things tax efficiently. Quite the opposite.
    No, she thought her affairs were structured efficiently (or, at least, no one would bother checking).

    The thing that seems to have been forgotten in all of this is that she is the MP for Ashton. Now, we hear about Farage not actually owning his constituency home, but presumably he does use it from time to time. The same applies to the Rayner and the Ashton property. Presumably she considers it to be her home as that is where she is MP for (leaving aside having to be away from home for work in London).

    In which case, why didn't she just pay the second home stamp duty?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,842
    edited September 5

    I suspect the immediate result of Rayner’s departure will be
    Reform +
    Labour =
    Con -
    Lib Dem -

    Some Lab to Ref balanced by some Lib and a few Con to Lab

    We await the weekend polls.

    Only opinium this weekend i think and fieldwork will already be over for that
    Tuesdays YG and Weds MiC will both be post today/Refconference
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,982
    edited September 5
    The big winners out of today are Yvette Cooper (for the immediate boost) and Shabana Mahmood (for the potential benefit) I think.

    Yvette now is in her second great office of state, it’s a “safe” one, it’s moved her on from the potential pitfalls of the Home Office; and she stays at the top of government. If Starmer were to fall under the proverbial bus, she has the profile and the seniority to be in pole position to succeed, I think.

    Mahmood could be an even bigger winner, if she is able to present herself as tough on immigration (she is on the right of Labour on this) and if she benefits from any kind of good news on that front she could become a very strong candidate for next leader. She does however have the poison chalice of the Home Office, so any benefit is potential at this stage - if Labour are seen to fail, her chances recede.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,957

    kle4 said:

    What does it matter if Streeting's star rises if the government cannot get a grip of key problems?

    Will be interesting to see if the BBC does it's (formerly) annual NHS winter crisis hysteria. Streeting may want to opt out of the hospital pass that is health secretary if they bleat on about the normal fluctuations of the flu season as they used to.
    Sure there are seasonal fluctuations, but they are only a crisis because of insufficient capacity in health and social care.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,370
    AnneJGP said:

    Wow. I mean just fecking wow.

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    ·
    6h
    We paid for Angela Rayner’s education. We paid her wages when she worked for the local council. We paid her wages when she became an MP. We even paid the settlement that enabled her to buy a house. Tax payers have funded every aspect of her entire life.

    https://x.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1963934976417603877


    How long before he is a Reform candidate for Deepings in the Rotten Borough?

    He could say the same for every career Civil Servant. Is he claiming that she delivered no value in work carried out?
    Probably.

    It's like how the average person's view of a local government or civil service worker is that they do absolutely nothing of worth and are incompetent as well, plus they are far too many of them and they are vastly overpaid, which, whatever, people can believe that if they like, but they often illustrate it by adding up the entire cost of them as something that could be put elsewhere, as if they literally do nothing.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,989

    The Liberal Democrats have criticised Sir Keir's Starmer's ministerial reshuffle.

    Sir Ed Davey said: 'If Labour believes that having a reshuffle will solve the deep-rooted problems of this government, they are learning the wrong lessons from the calamity Conservatives before them.'

    The Lib Dem leader added: 'Until Keir Starmer is ready to grab the bull by the horns and confront the problems our country really faces, it makes little difference who sits where around the Cabinet table.'

    "Calamity conservatives"

    A Trumpian coinage, that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,376
    edited September 5
    kle4 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Wow. I mean just fecking wow.

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    ·
    6h
    We paid for Angela Rayner’s education. We paid her wages when she worked for the local council. We paid her wages when she became an MP. We even paid the settlement that enabled her to buy a house. Tax payers have funded every aspect of her entire life.

    https://x.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1963934976417603877


    How long before he is a Reform candidate for Deepings in the Rotten Borough?

    He could say the same for every career Civil Servant. Is he claiming that she delivered no value in work carried out?
    Probably.

    It's like how the average person's view of a local government or civil service worker is that they do absolutely nothing of worth and are incompetent as well, plus they are far too many of them and they are vastly overpaid, which, whatever, people can believe that if they like, but they often illustrate it by adding up the entire cost of them as something that could be put elsewhere, as if they literally do nothing.
    I believe she only actually worked for the council for a year or so, she quickly was elected to work as a full time unite rep for Unison and worked her way up the union movement. Then into politics.

    Union members pay for the union roles do they not?
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 211
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    What does it matter if Streeting's star rises if the government cannot get a grip of key problems?

    Will be interesting to see if the BBC does it's (formerly) annual NHS winter crisis hysteria. Streeting may want to opt out of the hospital pass that is health secretary if they bleat on about the normal fluctuations of the flu season as they used to.
    Sure there are seasonal fluctuations, but they are only a crisis because of insufficient capacity in health and social care.
    Well quite and the capacity has not changed. If anything from my knowledge of a couple of London hospitals more beds are being cut. So it's undoubtedly a hospital pass for anyone who's health secretary during the inevitable winter pressures.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,789

    The big winners out of today are Yvette Cooper (for the immediate boost) and Shabana Mahmood (for the potential benefit) I think.

    Yvette now is in her second great office of state, it’s a “safe” one, it’s moved her on from the potential pitfalls of the Home Office; and she stays at the top of government. If Starmer were to fall under the proverbial bus, she has the profile and the seniority to be in pole position to succeed, I think.

    Mahmood could be an even bigger winner, if she is able to present herself as tough on immigration (she is on the right of Labour on this) and if she benefits from any kind of good news on that front she could become a very strong candidate for next leader. She does however have the poison chalice of the Home Office, so any benefit is potential at this stage - if Labour are seen to fail, her chances recede.

    Defo agree on Cooper.

    She is now surely heir apparent? And without a brief that almost always kills a career.

    If Ed Balls is on TV first thing in the morning tomorrow he may look a little hungover me thinks.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,588
    FPT © @rottenborough

    “Telegraph all celebrating tonight. Pearson is beside herself.

    Not surprising as they have it seems knocked the one foe that Farage feared out of the game.”

    Are there any newspapers still supporting the Tories?

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,093

    The big winners out of today are Yvette Cooper (for the immediate boost) and Shabana Mahmood (for the potential benefit) I think.

    Yvette now is in her second great office of state, it’s a “safe” one, it’s moved her on from the potential pitfalls of the Home Office; and she stays at the top of government. If Starmer were to fall under the proverbial bus, she has the profile and the seniority to be in pole position to succeed, I think.

    Mahmood could be an even bigger winner, if she is able to present herself as tough on immigration (she is on the right of Labour on this) and if she benefits from any kind of good news on that front she could become a very strong candidate for next leader. She does however have the poison chalice of the Home Office, so any benefit is potential at this stage - if Labour are seen to fail, her chances recede.

    Defo agree on Cooper.

    She is now surely heir apparent? And without a brief that almost always kills a career.

    If Ed Balls is on TV first thing in the morning tomorrow he may look a little hungover me thinks.
    Yes she might be the one to see out the tail end of the Parliament mightn’t she
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,209

    The big winners out of today are Yvette Cooper (for the immediate boost) and Shabana Mahmood (for the potential benefit) I think.

    Yvette now is in her second great office of state, it’s a “safe” one, it’s moved her on from the potential pitfalls of the Home Office; and she stays at the top of government. If Starmer were to fall under the proverbial bus, she has the profile and the seniority to be in pole position to succeed, I think.

    Mahmood could be an even bigger winner, if she is able to present herself as tough on immigration (she is on the right of Labour on this) and if she benefits from any kind of good news on that front she could become a very strong candidate for next leader. She does however have the poison chalice of the Home Office, so any benefit is potential at this stage - if Labour are seen to fail, her chances recede.

    Defo agree on Cooper.

    She is now surely heir apparent? And without a brief that almost always kills a career.

    If Ed Balls is on TV first thing in the morning tomorrow he may look a little hungover me thinks.
    I guess it depends if Yvette is already away on FO business, she strikes me as a bit of a mood hoover so he might not be allowed to get bang on it tonight.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,842

    FPT © @rottenborough

    “Telegraph all celebrating tonight. Pearson is beside herself.

    Not surprising as they have it seems knocked the one foe that Farage feared out of the game.”

    Are there any newspapers still supporting the Tories?

    Express i think.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,957
    edited September 5

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    What does it matter if Streeting's star rises if the government cannot get a grip of key problems?

    Will be interesting to see if the BBC does it's (formerly) annual NHS winter crisis hysteria. Streeting may want to opt out of the hospital pass that is health secretary if they bleat on about the normal fluctuations of the flu season as they used to.
    Sure there are seasonal fluctuations, but they are only a crisis because of insufficient capacity in health and social care.
    Well quite and the capacity has not changed. If anything from my knowledge of a couple of London hospitals more beds are being cut. So it's undoubtedly a hospital pass for anyone who's health secretary during the inevitable winter pressures.
    Yes, the squeeze is on hospitals in order to shift funds to Primary care, but I think it will take time to see the benefit from that move. My own Trust is losing 6% of staff.

    I would recommend getting vaccinations and covid boosters and don't be part of the throng in ED.

    Australia has had a bad flu season, and we tend to get the same strain.

    https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/worrying-signs-as-peak-flu-season-draws-near
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,989
    edited September 5
    "Beyoncé is latest American star set to decamp to the Cotswolds

    The singer and her husband Jay-Z are in the final stages of buying 58 acres of land on the outskirts of Wigginton in the ‘Hamptons of the UK’"

    Who knew I lived in the Hamptons.

    Reminds me, must spray some White vinegar on the Black mould.
  • Good evening

    I think Starmer wanted this reshuffle and Rayner handed him the golden opportunity

    This has been in the making for a while though shuffling the same names is hardly inspiring
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,842
    Pleasingly from a next election watching point of view im likely to be moving soon away from boring old Clive Lewis' Norwich South to North Norfolk where a delicious Lib Con rematch is on the cards
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,407

    Good evening

    I think Starmer wanted this reshuffle and Rayner handed him the golden opportunity

    This has been in the making for a while though shuffling the same names is hardly inspiring

    These are historical offices of state that run our country he is shuffling any old rubbish into. Shameful day for Labour.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,353

    Pleasingly from a next election watching point of view im likely to be moving soon away from boring old Clive Lewis' Norwich South to North Norfolk where a delicious Lib Con rematch is on the cards

    The LibDem MP for North Norfolk wrote quite an entertaining book about a District Election campaign.

    And I'm not joking :smile:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,789
    moonshine said:

    The big winners out of today are Yvette Cooper (for the immediate boost) and Shabana Mahmood (for the potential benefit) I think.

    Yvette now is in her second great office of state, it’s a “safe” one, it’s moved her on from the potential pitfalls of the Home Office; and she stays at the top of government. If Starmer were to fall under the proverbial bus, she has the profile and the seniority to be in pole position to succeed, I think.

    Mahmood could be an even bigger winner, if she is able to present herself as tough on immigration (she is on the right of Labour on this) and if she benefits from any kind of good news on that front she could become a very strong candidate for next leader. She does however have the poison chalice of the Home Office, so any benefit is potential at this stage - if Labour are seen to fail, her chances recede.

    Defo agree on Cooper.

    She is now surely heir apparent? And without a brief that almost always kills a career.

    If Ed Balls is on TV first thing in the morning tomorrow he may look a little hungover me thinks.
    Yes she might be the one to see out the tail end of the Parliament mightn’t she
    Which would fit nicely as one of Brown's original people.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,128
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    What does it matter if Streeting's star rises if the government cannot get a grip of key problems?

    Will be interesting to see if the BBC does it's (formerly) annual NHS winter crisis hysteria. Streeting may want to opt out of the hospital pass that is health secretary if they bleat on about the normal fluctuations of the flu season as they used to.
    Sure there are seasonal fluctuations, but they are only a crisis because of insufficient capacity in health and social care.
    Well quite and the capacity has not changed. If anything from my knowledge of a couple of London hospitals more beds are being cut. So it's undoubtedly a hospital pass for anyone who's health secretary during the inevitable winter pressures.
    Yes, the squeeze is on hospitals in order to shift funds to Primary care, but I think it will take time to see the benefit from that move. My own Trust is losing 6% of staff.

    I would recommend getting vaccinations and covid boosters and don't be part of the throng in ED.

    Australia has had a bad flu season, and we tend to get the same strain.

    https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/worrying-signs-as-peak-flu-season-draws-near
    I have my flu jab already booked, the invitations seem to have come out early this year. Not eligible for Covid though (60+ cardiac risk)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,842
    rcs1000 said:

    Pleasingly from a next election watching point of view im likely to be moving soon away from boring old Clive Lewis' Norwich South to North Norfolk where a delicious Lib Con rematch is on the cards

    The LibDem MP for North Norfolk wrote quite an entertaining book about a District Election campaign.

    And I'm not joking :smile:
    Ill try and write up an entertaining account of his seat defence in honour
    Could be a very tight race
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,353

    rcs1000 said:

    Pleasingly from a next election watching point of view im likely to be moving soon away from boring old Clive Lewis' Norwich South to North Norfolk where a delicious Lib Con rematch is on the cards

    The LibDem MP for North Norfolk wrote quite an entertaining book about a District Election campaign.

    And I'm not joking :smile:
    Ill try and write up an entertaining account of his seat defence in honour
    Could be a very tight race
    If the Conservatives can avoid a Reform surge in the constituency, then they will likely win.

    On the other hand, it's entirely possible to see a 40 LD, 35 Reform, 20 Conservative type result.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,769
    edited September 5
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    What does it matter if Streeting's star rises if the government cannot get a grip of key problems?

    Will be interesting to see if the BBC does it's (formerly) annual NHS winter crisis hysteria. Streeting may want to opt out of the hospital pass that is health secretary if they bleat on about the normal fluctuations of the flu season as they used to.
    Sure there are seasonal fluctuations, but they are only a crisis because of insufficient capacity in health and social care.
    Well quite and the capacity has not changed. If anything from my knowledge of a couple of London hospitals more beds are being cut. So it's undoubtedly a hospital pass for anyone who's health secretary during the inevitable winter pressures.
    Yes, the squeeze is on hospitals in order to shift funds to Primary care, but I think it will take time to see the benefit from that move. My own Trust is losing 6% of staff.

    I would recommend getting vaccinations and covid boosters and don't be part of the throng in ED.

    Australia has had a bad flu season, and we tend to get the same strain.

    https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/worrying-signs-as-peak-flu-season-draws-near
    I appreciate this is going to cause you major issues as a hospital doctor but this is by far the most positive thing coming out of the government at the moment. This shift to primary care is crucial both for getting our spending under control and making our population a little healthier. If Streeting can ignore the headlines and concentrate on reducing inflows to the waiting lists, rather than increasing the outflows, I'll be very impressed indeed.

    Yet to see a similar shift to public health but one can dream.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,842
    edited September 5
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pleasingly from a next election watching point of view im likely to be moving soon away from boring old Clive Lewis' Norwich South to North Norfolk where a delicious Lib Con rematch is on the cards

    The LibDem MP for North Norfolk wrote quite an entertaining book about a District Election campaign.

    And I'm not joking :smile:
    Ill try and write up an entertaining account of his seat defence in honour
    Could be a very tight race
    If the Conservatives can avoid a Reform surge in the constituency, then they will likely win.

    On the other hand, it's entirely possible to see a 40 LD, 35 Reform, 20 Conservative type result.
    The Con vote in North Norfolk is very sticky at 30% plus even when Lamb was in his pomp and their 35.9% would have won any other seat in Norfolk apart from the Norwich city seats. Reform undershot here and I'd expect them to do so again as this will be heavily pushed by both as a two horse race. And i honestly don't see Reform bothering to put in any legwork here, there are far juicier Norfolk targets for them.
    Im narrowly on LD hold at the moment though but very very tight. I shall be watching the council results closely

    Edit to add - Reform undershot UKIPs 2015 performance here which must be unusual in last year's results. Having said that its much more wealthy elderly brexit than it is 'Workington man' Reform
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,611
    edited September 5
    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    What does it matter if Streeting's star rises if the government cannot get a grip of key problems?

    Will be interesting to see if the BBC does it's (formerly) annual NHS winter crisis hysteria. Streeting may want to opt out of the hospital pass that is health secretary if they bleat on about the normal fluctuations of the flu season as they used to.
    Sure there are seasonal fluctuations, but they are only a crisis because of insufficient capacity in health and social care.
    Well quite and the capacity has not changed. If anything from my knowledge of a couple of London hospitals more beds are being cut. So it's undoubtedly a hospital pass for anyone who's health secretary during the inevitable winter pressures.
    Yes, the squeeze is on hospitals in order to shift funds to Primary care, but I think it will take time to see the benefit from that move. My own Trust is losing 6% of staff.

    I would recommend getting vaccinations and covid boosters and don't be part of the throng in ED.

    Australia has had a bad flu season, and we tend to get the same strain.

    https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/worrying-signs-as-peak-flu-season-draws-near
    I appreciate this is going to cause you major issues as a hospital doctor but this is by far the most positive thing coming out of the government at the moment. This shift to primary care is crucial both for getting our spending under control and making our population a little healthier. If Streeting can ignore the headlines and concentrate on reducing inflows to the waiting lists, rather than increasing the outflows, I'll be very impressed indeed.

    Yet to see a similar shift to public health but one can dream.
    The shift to primary care might ease the strain on A&E but equally it might increase the number of referrals to hospital. We shall see.

    ETA more worrying is American pressure on Big Pharma to increase prices here to avoid dropping them there.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,405
    It seems to me that something is shifting in perceptions about the USA. The saturation coverage has stopped and there is relatively a lack of interest from the UK media. Meanwhile the bonkersness of Trumpism carries on, and the authoritarian gangster kleptocracy is unchallenged.

    My feeling is that this is all becoming normalised; or is it the lull before some fresh hell is unleashed?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,376
    edited September 5
    Spending less than an hour during work browsing properties or shopping online is not a sackable offence, a UK judge has ruled.

    An accountancy administrator has been awarded more than £14,000 after an employment tribunal ruled the time she spent browsing sites such as Rightmove and Amazon was not "excessive".

    She was fired from her job in July 2023 after her employer used spy software to track her computer to find out she had been using it for personal matters.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwywlk07rj4o

    What about posting on PB? Asking for a friend.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,222
    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Your comments of the last few days strongly indicated you'd be delighted to see Rayner humiliated and forced to resign. I'm not quite sure why though I suspect it's to do with what she said about Conservatives while in Opposition.

    All of that being said, none of this sits well with me.

    Since the Expenses Crisis, successive Governments have imposed levels of probity on Ministers and MPs which are draconian in extremis. As with other Prime Ministers, Starmer wants his Cabinet team to be seen to be beyond reproach when it comes to their personal financial affairs so while we can live with incompetence and stupidity, at least we don't have to live with corruption (apparently).

    Rayner has made mistakes and breached the MInisterial Code making her position untenable. Had I done the same, I imagine I'd be looking at having to repay the unpaid Stamp Duty and perhaps a penalty but I wouldn't lose my job over it and this is where I'm uncomfortable with all this and was when it was applied to Conservatives.

    We penalise mistakes rather than malevolence. Yes, let's go after Ministers who receive money from third party lobbying companies but this is Rayner's private domestic arrangements. I don't think she should be sacked for what she has done but the Ministerial Code dictates otherwise and them's the rules currently.
    For most politicians then most would be a bit fairer but Rayner set herself up as the scourge of those who had made errors whether innocent errors or egregious. If you decide to make yourself the witch finder General make sure you don’t do anything that looks like witchcraft.

    She was relentless and unsparing in her calls for resignations and fire aimed at people who structured theor finances tax efficiently. Live by the sword etc.
    But let's not pretend this was similar. She didn't structure things tax efficiently. Quite the opposite.
    No, she thought her affairs were structured efficiently (or, at least, no one would bother checking).

    The thing that seems to have been forgotten in all of this is that she is the MP for Ashton. Now, we hear about Farage not actually owning his constituency home, but presumably he does use it from time to time. The same applies to the Rayner and the Ashton property. Presumably she considers it to be her home as that is where she is MP for (leaving aside having to be away from home for work in London).

    In which case, why didn't she just pay the second home stamp duty?
    You're confusing two things. Main residence has nothing to do with stamp duty rules.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,989
    Djokovic-Alacaraz begins. Carlos in 4 I reckon.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,595
    edited September 5
    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work. Mature and complex, and reminiscent of the older British documentary tradition.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,689

    Spending less than an hour during work browsing properties or shopping online is not a sackable offence, a UK judge has ruled.

    An accountancy administrator has been awarded more than £14,000 after an employment tribunal ruled the time she spent browsing sites such as Rightmove and Amazon was not "excessive".

    She was fired from her job in July 2023 after her employer used spy software to track her computer to find out she had been using it for personal matters.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwywlk07rj4o

    What about posting on PB? Asking for a friend.

    I try to use the phone, not on the company wifi. ;)
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,128
    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Your comments of the last few days strongly indicated you'd be delighted to see Rayner humiliated and forced to resign. I'm not quite sure why though I suspect it's to do with what she said about Conservatives while in Opposition.

    All of that being said, none of this sits well with me.

    Since the Expenses Crisis, successive Governments have imposed levels of probity on Ministers and MPs which are draconian in extremis. As with other Prime Ministers, Starmer wants his Cabinet team to be seen to be beyond reproach when it comes to their personal financial affairs so while we can live with incompetence and stupidity, at least we don't have to live with corruption (apparently).

    Rayner has made mistakes and breached the MInisterial Code making her position untenable. Had I done the same, I imagine I'd be looking at having to repay the unpaid Stamp Duty and perhaps a penalty but I wouldn't lose my job over it and this is where I'm uncomfortable with all this and was when it was applied to Conservatives.

    We penalise mistakes rather than malevolence. Yes, let's go after Ministers who receive money from third party lobbying companies but this is Rayner's private domestic arrangements. I don't think she should be sacked for what she has done but the Ministerial Code dictates otherwise and them's the rules currently.
    For most politicians then most would be a bit fairer but Rayner set herself up as the scourge of those who had made errors whether innocent errors or egregious. If you decide to make yourself the witch finder General make sure you don’t do anything that looks like witchcraft.

    She was relentless and unsparing in her calls for resignations and fire aimed at people who structured theor finances tax efficiently. Live by the sword etc.
    But let's not pretend this was similar. She didn't structure things tax efficiently. Quite the opposite.
    No, she thought her affairs were structured efficiently (or, at least, no one would bother checking).

    The thing that seems to have been forgotten in all of this is that she is the MP for Ashton. Now, we hear about Farage not actually owning his constituency home, but presumably he does use it from time to time. The same applies to the Rayner and the Ashton property. Presumably she considers it to be her home as that is where she is MP for (leaving aside having to be away from home for work in London).

    In which case, why didn't she just pay the second home stamp duty?
    You're confusing two things. Main residence has nothing to do with stamp duty rules.
    And as she was both an MP and a Cabinet Minister, was likely to be in the constituency a couple of days a week at most.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,318

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,143

    Spending less than an hour during work browsing properties or shopping online is not a sackable offence, a UK judge has ruled.

    An accountancy administrator has been awarded more than £14,000 after an employment tribunal ruled the time she spent browsing sites such as Rightmove and Amazon was not "excessive".

    She was fired from her job in July 2023 after her employer used spy software to track her computer to find out she had been using it for personal matters.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwywlk07rj4o

    What about posting on PB? Asking for a friend.

    Certainly plenty of property chat here just now, can't think why.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,595
    edited September 5
    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,175
    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Your comments of the last few days strongly indicated you'd be delighted to see Rayner humiliated and forced to resign. I'm not quite sure why though I suspect it's to do with what she said about Conservatives while in Opposition.

    All of that being said, none of this sits well with me.

    Since the Expenses Crisis, successive Governments have imposed levels of probity on Ministers and MPs which are draconian in extremis. As with other Prime Ministers, Starmer wants his Cabinet team to be seen to be beyond reproach when it comes to their personal financial affairs so while we can live with incompetence and stupidity, at least we don't have to live with corruption (apparently).

    Rayner has made mistakes and breached the MInisterial Code making her position untenable. Had I done the same, I imagine I'd be looking at having to repay the unpaid Stamp Duty and perhaps a penalty but I wouldn't lose my job over it and this is where I'm uncomfortable with all this and was when it was applied to Conservatives.

    We penalise mistakes rather than malevolence. Yes, let's go after Ministers who receive money from third party lobbying companies but this is Rayner's private domestic arrangements. I don't think she should be sacked for what she has done but the Ministerial Code dictates otherwise and them's the rules currently.
    For most politicians then most would be a bit fairer but Rayner set herself up as the scourge of those who had made errors whether innocent errors or egregious. If you decide to make yourself the witch finder General make sure you don’t do anything that looks like witchcraft.

    She was relentless and unsparing in her calls for resignations and fire aimed at people who structured theor finances tax efficiently. Live by the sword etc.
    But let's not pretend this was similar. She didn't structure things tax efficiently. Quite the opposite.
    No, she thought her affairs were structured efficiently (or, at least, no one would bother checking).

    The thing that seems to have been forgotten in all of this is that she is the MP for Ashton. Now, we hear about Farage not actually owning his constituency home, but presumably he does use it from time to time. The same applies to the Rayner and the Ashton property. Presumably she considers it to be her home as that is where she is MP for (leaving aside having to be away from home for work in London).

    In which case, why didn't she just pay the second home stamp duty?
    You're confusing two things. Main residence has nothing to do with stamp duty rules.
    And your confusing what she has to pay and what she should pay.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,989

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    "In a 2024 interview with Radio Times, Palin explained his reasoning for parting ways with the BBC was because they wanted more control over his work: "There was the feeling that the BBC wanted to interfere a little more. They wanted to control it a little more.

    "They had this new way of presenting shows — which I would get absolutely, desperately frustrated with — where they would show, in the first five minutes, all the great moments of what was to come because this captured viewers. Otherwise, as soon as they see Michael Palin, they’ll switch off.

    "The BBC were going in a different direction and presentation was going in a different direction."

    His time with the BBC had its ups and downs, in 2009 Palin said he felt "very let down" by the BBC's response to his 2007 documentary New Europe. The programme was censured by the BBC Trust, who concluded Palin had oversimplified the conflict of the Balkan wars in the 1990s after a complaint was made by a viewer.

    Speaking at a lunch for the Royal Television Society years after the programme was released, the Guardian reported Palin as saying: "The complaint was upheld. That, I believe, brings the BBC into disrepute. I think it was a stupid decision. I felt very, very angry and very let down.""
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,209

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    Hey come on, the BBC is informing, educating and entertaining (?) etc with their new expensive series where they send couples to a tropical island and get fake married and have to live together whilst Davina McCall emotes with them. Why waste money on a funny and intelligent man opening people’s minds about the world?

    ITV and C4 could never put on something like that, they would have to think of titles like Love Island, Big Brother and Married at First sight so luckily the Beeb are going where nobody else can or will.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,222
    carnforth said:

    Djokovic-Alacaraz begins. Carlos in 4 I reckon.

    If Djokovic can win this it would be a quite remarkable achievement.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,222
    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Your comments of the last few days strongly indicated you'd be delighted to see Rayner humiliated and forced to resign. I'm not quite sure why though I suspect it's to do with what she said about Conservatives while in Opposition.

    All of that being said, none of this sits well with me.

    Since the Expenses Crisis, successive Governments have imposed levels of probity on Ministers and MPs which are draconian in extremis. As with other Prime Ministers, Starmer wants his Cabinet team to be seen to be beyond reproach when it comes to their personal financial affairs so while we can live with incompetence and stupidity, at least we don't have to live with corruption (apparently).

    Rayner has made mistakes and breached the MInisterial Code making her position untenable. Had I done the same, I imagine I'd be looking at having to repay the unpaid Stamp Duty and perhaps a penalty but I wouldn't lose my job over it and this is where I'm uncomfortable with all this and was when it was applied to Conservatives.

    We penalise mistakes rather than malevolence. Yes, let's go after Ministers who receive money from third party lobbying companies but this is Rayner's private domestic arrangements. I don't think she should be sacked for what she has done but the Ministerial Code dictates otherwise and them's the rules currently.
    For most politicians then most would be a bit fairer but Rayner set herself up as the scourge of those who had made errors whether innocent errors or egregious. If you decide to make yourself the witch finder General make sure you don’t do anything that looks like witchcraft.

    She was relentless and unsparing in her calls for resignations and fire aimed at people who structured theor finances tax efficiently. Live by the sword etc.
    But let's not pretend this was similar. She didn't structure things tax efficiently. Quite the opposite.
    No, she thought her affairs were structured efficiently (or, at least, no one would bother checking).

    The thing that seems to have been forgotten in all of this is that she is the MP for Ashton. Now, we hear about Farage not actually owning his constituency home, but presumably he does use it from time to time. The same applies to the Rayner and the Ashton property. Presumably she considers it to be her home as that is where she is MP for (leaving aside having to be away from home for work in London).

    In which case, why didn't she just pay the second home stamp duty?
    You're confusing two things. Main residence has nothing to do with stamp duty rules.
    And your confusing what she has to pay and what she should pay.
    How so?
  • Rayner is the fifth and by far the most senior minister to be forced out of office as a result of wrongdoing since Starmer came to power. She was also the most vocal critic of the Conservatives during their many scandals. “One rule for them, one for everybody else,” she used to cry. Now that refrain is being redirected towards her.

    While Labour’s attempts to prove itself more ethical than the previous administration have already been bruised by controversies including over freebies, perhaps the most serious impact of this latest row is that it will reinforce the corrosive view held by many people that all politicians are in it for themselves.

    Her departure also creates an even greater political headache for Rachel Reeves as she plans her autumn budget. With the Treasury struggling to find up to £40bn to balance the books, the option of imposing a new property tax on more expensive homes, or any wider change to property taxes, becomes a harder sell.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/damage-labour-angela-rayner-resignation-only-just-beginning
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,044

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    Candidate for greatest living Englishman, top ten for definite.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,141
    edited September 5

    moonshine said:

    The big winners out of today are Yvette Cooper (for the immediate boost) and Shabana Mahmood (for the potential benefit) I think.

    Yvette now is in her second great office of state, it’s a “safe” one, it’s moved her on from the potential pitfalls of the Home Office; and she stays at the top of government. If Starmer were to fall under the proverbial bus, she has the profile and the seniority to be in pole position to succeed, I think.

    Mahmood could be an even bigger winner, if she is able to present herself as tough on immigration (she is on the right of Labour on this) and if she benefits from any kind of good news on that front she could become a very strong candidate for next leader. She does however have the poison chalice of the Home Office, so any benefit is potential at this stage - if Labour are seen to fail, her chances recede.

    Defo agree on Cooper.

    She is now surely heir apparent? And without a brief that almost always kills a career.

    If Ed Balls is on TV first thing in the morning tomorrow he may look a little hungover me thinks.
    Yes she might be the one to see out the tail end of the Parliament mightn’t she
    Which would fit nicely as one of Brown's original people.
    What has she ever done? HIPS.. which was a disaster. To talk of her as PM is ludicrous... but that's Labour 4 u.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,588

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pleasingly from a next election watching point of view im likely to be moving soon away from boring old Clive Lewis' Norwich South to North Norfolk where a delicious Lib Con rematch is on the cards

    The LibDem MP for North Norfolk wrote quite an entertaining book about a District Election campaign.

    And I'm not joking :smile:
    Ill try and write up an entertaining account of his seat defence in honour
    Could be a very tight race
    If the Conservatives can avoid a Reform surge in the constituency, then they will likely win.

    On the other hand, it's entirely possible to see a 40 LD, 35 Reform, 20 Conservative type result.
    The Con vote in North Norfolk is very sticky at 30% plus even when Lamb was in his pomp and their 35.9% would have won any other seat in Norfolk apart from the Norwich city seats. Reform undershot here and I'd expect them to do so again as this will be heavily pushed by both as a two horse race. And i honestly don't see Reform bothering to put in any legwork here, there are far juicier Norfolk targets for them.
    Im narrowly on LD hold at the moment though but very very tight. I shall be watching the council results closely

    Edit to add - Reform undershot UKIPs 2015 performance here which must be unusual in last year's results. Having said that its much more wealthy elderly brexit than it is 'Workington man' Reform
    An non Reform oasis between Kings Lynn and Great Yarmouth.
  • Around the World in 80 Days with Michael Palin - Christ that came out in 1989.
  • With the exception of Shabana Mahmood have any of the much vaunted Labour women ministers been any good ?

    Angela Rayner - resigned in disgrace
    Louise Haigh - resigned in disgrace
    Tulip Siddiq - resigned in disgrace
    Rushanara Ali - resigned in disgrace

    Then there's Reeves, Kendall, Phillipson, Nandy, maybe a few others and all deeply unimpressive.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,871
    Is no one slightly tempted by Lammy at around 20/1 ?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,141

    With the exception of Shabana Mahmood have any of the much vaunted Labour women ministers been any good ?

    Angela Rayner - resigned in disgrace
    Louise Haigh - resigned in disgrace
    Tulip Siddiq - resigned in disgrace
    Rushanara Ali - resigned in disgrace

    Then there's Reeves, Kendall, Phillipson, Nandy, maybe a few others and all deeply unimpressive.

    Lammy... useless
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,588
    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    He seems a genuinely nice person. Re: his comments about the BBC, it appears that it’s the BBC which is bringing the BBC into disrepute.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,326
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pleasingly from a next election watching point of view im likely to be moving soon away from boring old Clive Lewis' Norwich South to North Norfolk where a delicious Lib Con rematch is on the cards

    The LibDem MP for North Norfolk wrote quite an entertaining book about a District Election campaign.

    And I'm not joking :smile:
    Ill try and write up an entertaining account of his seat defence in honour
    Could be a very tight race
    If the Conservatives can avoid a Reform surge in the constituency, then they will likely win.

    On the other hand, it's entirely possible to see a 40 LD, 35 Reform, 20 Conservative type result.
    My model, using the EMA of recent polls and uniform multiplicative swing, shows Norfolk North as a LD hold.
    LD 21K
    Ref 14K
    Con 12K
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,294
    Oh the minus side after the day of the blunt knives you have to think Reeves is safe for quite a while. Even Starmer would realise that losing his Chancellor after today's insanity would be terminal.

    Meantime, incompetent and generally not very bright ministers who were just about getting the beginnings of a grip on their brief can start again. Things can only get better I think the song went.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,842

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pleasingly from a next election watching point of view im likely to be moving soon away from boring old Clive Lewis' Norwich South to North Norfolk where a delicious Lib Con rematch is on the cards

    The LibDem MP for North Norfolk wrote quite an entertaining book about a District Election campaign.

    And I'm not joking :smile:
    Ill try and write up an entertaining account of his seat defence in honour
    Could be a very tight race
    If the Conservatives can avoid a Reform surge in the constituency, then they will likely win.

    On the other hand, it's entirely possible to see a 40 LD, 35 Reform, 20 Conservative type result.
    The Con vote in North Norfolk is very sticky at 30% plus even when Lamb was in his pomp and their 35.9% would have won any other seat in Norfolk apart from the Norwich city seats. Reform undershot here and I'd expect them to do so again as this will be heavily pushed by both as a two horse race. And i honestly don't see Reform bothering to put in any legwork here, there are far juicier Norfolk targets for them.
    Im narrowly on LD hold at the moment though but very very tight. I shall be watching the council results closely

    Edit to add - Reform undershot UKIPs 2015 performance here which must be unusual in last year's results. Having said that its much more wealthy elderly brexit than it is 'Workington man' Reform
    An non Reform oasis between Kings Lynn and Great Yarmouth.
    Theres an argument for the Cons hanging on in NW Norfolk and Rupert beating Reform in Yarmouth making the entire Norfolk coastline Reform free
  • DavidL said:

    Oh the minus side after the day of the blunt knives you have to think Reeves is safe for quite a while. Even Starmer would realise that losing his Chancellor after today's insanity would be terminal.

    Meantime, incompetent and generally not very bright ministers who were just about getting the beginnings of a grip on their brief can start again. Things can only get better I think the song went.

    How much is that because he can't lose her for political reasons and how much is it there isn't really anybody to replace her. Cooper is the only one I can think of.
  • With the exception of Shabana Mahmood have any of the much vaunted Labour women ministers been any good ?

    Angela Rayner - resigned in disgrace
    Louise Haigh - resigned in disgrace
    Tulip Siddiq - resigned in disgrace
    Rushanara Ali - resigned in disgrace

    Then there's Reeves, Kendall, Phillipson, Nandy, maybe a few others and all deeply unimpressive.

    And how could I forget the memorable Yvette Cooper - the pound shop version of Ursula von der Leyen.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,842

    moonshine said:

    The big winners out of today are Yvette Cooper (for the immediate boost) and Shabana Mahmood (for the potential benefit) I think.

    Yvette now is in her second great office of state, it’s a “safe” one, it’s moved her on from the potential pitfalls of the Home Office; and she stays at the top of government. If Starmer were to fall under the proverbial bus, she has the profile and the seniority to be in pole position to succeed, I think.

    Mahmood could be an even bigger winner, if she is able to present herself as tough on immigration (she is on the right of Labour on this) and if she benefits from any kind of good news on that front she could become a very strong candidate for next leader. She does however have the poison chalice of the Home Office, so any benefit is potential at this stage - if Labour are seen to fail, her chances recede.

    Defo agree on Cooper.

    She is now surely heir apparent? And without a brief that almost always kills a career.

    If Ed Balls is on TV first thing in the morning tomorrow he may look a little hungover me thinks.
    Yes she might be the one to see out the tail end of the Parliament mightn’t she
    Which would fit nicely as one of Brown's original people.
    What has she ever done? HIPS.. which was a disaster. To talk of her as PM is ludicrous... but that's Labour 4 u.
    Its the usual reshuffle nonsense - Labour have dropped a new turd on the carpet and we have to pretend its amazing and fresh and changes everything. In reality its just more caked in foulness
  • With the exception of Shabana Mahmood have any of the much vaunted Labour women ministers been any good ?

    Angela Rayner - resigned in disgrace
    Louise Haigh - resigned in disgrace
    Tulip Siddiq - resigned in disgrace
    Rushanara Ali - resigned in disgrace

    Then there's Reeves, Kendall, Phillipson, Nandy, maybe a few others and all deeply unimpressive.

    Lammy... useless
    Lammy has exceeded expectations.

    Admittedly pretty low expectations.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,318

    Around the World in 80 Days with Michael Palin - Christ that came out in 1989.

    There was a quite charming follow-up many years later when he went back to meet some of the people who'd helped him on the trip.
  • moonshine said:

    The big winners out of today are Yvette Cooper (for the immediate boost) and Shabana Mahmood (for the potential benefit) I think.

    Yvette now is in her second great office of state, it’s a “safe” one, it’s moved her on from the potential pitfalls of the Home Office; and she stays at the top of government. If Starmer were to fall under the proverbial bus, she has the profile and the seniority to be in pole position to succeed, I think.

    Mahmood could be an even bigger winner, if she is able to present herself as tough on immigration (she is on the right of Labour on this) and if she benefits from any kind of good news on that front she could become a very strong candidate for next leader. She does however have the poison chalice of the Home Office, so any benefit is potential at this stage - if Labour are seen to fail, her chances recede.

    Defo agree on Cooper.

    She is now surely heir apparent? And without a brief that almost always kills a career.

    If Ed Balls is on TV first thing in the morning tomorrow he may look a little hungover me thinks.
    Yes she might be the one to see out the tail end of the Parliament mightn’t she
    Which would fit nicely as one of Brown's original people.
    What has she ever done? HIPS.. which was a disaster. To talk of her as PM is ludicrous... but that's Labour 4 u.
    Its the usual reshuffle nonsense - Labour have dropped a new turd on the carpet and we have to pretend its amazing and fresh and changes everything. In reality its just more caked in foulness
    Sounds like they need to purchase some shake and vac....
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,209

    With the exception of Shabana Mahmood have any of the much vaunted Labour women ministers been any good ?

    Angela Rayner - resigned in disgrace
    Louise Haigh - resigned in disgrace
    Tulip Siddiq - resigned in disgrace
    Rushanara Ali - resigned in disgrace

    Then there's Reeves, Kendall, Phillipson, Nandy, maybe a few others and all deeply unimpressive.

    Lammy... useless
    Lammy has exceeded expectations.

    Admittedly pretty low expectations.
    To be fair to him, name me another British politician in the last couple of decades who has exceeded expectations. He is definitely an outlier.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,595
    edited September 5
    carnforth said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    "In a 2024 interview with Radio Times, Palin explained his reasoning for parting ways with the BBC was because they wanted more control over his work: "There was the feeling that the BBC wanted to interfere a little more. They wanted to control it a little more.

    "They had this new way of presenting shows — which I would get absolutely, desperately frustrated with — where they would show, in the first five minutes, all the great moments of what was to come because this captured viewers. Otherwise, as soon as they see Michael Palin, they’ll switch off.

    "The BBC were going in a different direction and presentation was going in a different direction."

    This sort of banal programme-making is key to what changed in the BBC from the later 1990's onwards. Many younger people simply have no idea of the quality of documentaries that Brutain used to be famous around the world for, and many which are not online are hard to find.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,842

    moonshine said:

    The big winners out of today are Yvette Cooper (for the immediate boost) and Shabana Mahmood (for the potential benefit) I think.

    Yvette now is in her second great office of state, it’s a “safe” one, it’s moved her on from the potential pitfalls of the Home Office; and she stays at the top of government. If Starmer were to fall under the proverbial bus, she has the profile and the seniority to be in pole position to succeed, I think.

    Mahmood could be an even bigger winner, if she is able to present herself as tough on immigration (she is on the right of Labour on this) and if she benefits from any kind of good news on that front she could become a very strong candidate for next leader. She does however have the poison chalice of the Home Office, so any benefit is potential at this stage - if Labour are seen to fail, her chances recede.

    Defo agree on Cooper.

    She is now surely heir apparent? And without a brief that almost always kills a career.

    If Ed Balls is on TV first thing in the morning tomorrow he may look a little hungover me thinks.
    Yes she might be the one to see out the tail end of the Parliament mightn’t she
    Which would fit nicely as one of Brown's original people.
    What has she ever done? HIPS.. which was a disaster. To talk of her as PM is ludicrous... but that's Labour 4 u.
    Its the usual reshuffle nonsense - Labour have dropped a new turd on the carpet and we have to pretend its amazing and fresh and changes everything. In reality its just more caked in foulness
    Sounds like they need to purchase some shake and vac....
    Put that freshness back
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,318

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    Candidate for greatest living Englishman, top ten for definite.
    There's a very slow and genteel cage-fight between him, Melvyn Bragg and Ian McKellen. Throw Brian Blessed and Tom Baker in there and it'd be a wild, if rather charming, evening.

    Also occurs to me, now that I write them out - the North is very well represented in the national treasure list.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,318

    carnforth said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    "In a 2024 interview with Radio Times, Palin explained his reasoning for parting ways with the BBC was because they wanted more control over his work: "There was the feeling that the BBC wanted to interfere a little more. They wanted to control it a little more.

    "They had this new way of presenting shows — which I would get absolutely, desperately frustrated with — where they would show, in the first five minutes, all the great moments of what was to come because this captured viewers. Otherwise, as soon as they see Michael Palin, they’ll switch off.

    "The BBC were going in a different direction and presentation was going in a different direction."

    This sort of banal programme-making is key to what changed in the BBC from the later 1990's onwards. Many younger people simply have no idea of the quality of documentaries that Brutain used to be famous around the world for, and many which are not online are hard to find.

    I have a lot of older BBC (and ITV/regional) documentaries (and one-off drama's) going back to the 60s. It is really quite striking how the decline kicks in the late 80s. I wouldn't like to lay it all at John Birt's door - but he is possibly the 'poster child' for the marked drop in value.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,315

    carnforth said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    "In a 2024 interview with Radio Times, Palin explained his reasoning for parting ways with the BBC was because they wanted more control over his work: "There was the feeling that the BBC wanted to interfere a little more. They wanted to control it a little more.

    "They had this new way of presenting shows — which I would get absolutely, desperately frustrated with — where they would show, in the first five minutes, all the great moments of what was to come because this captured viewers. Otherwise, as soon as they see Michael Palin, they’ll switch off.

    "The BBC were going in a different direction and presentation was going in a different direction."

    This sort of banal programme-making is key to what changed in the BBC from the later 1990's onwards. Many younger people simply have no idea of the quality of documentaries that Brutain used to be famous around the world for, and many which are not online are hard to find.

    Agreed. I CBA to sit through the shite soup starter. Can't remember the last time I watched TV except for a little bit of the Coronation at Mrs C's insistence (she does like the music and the horses).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,964
    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    Candidate for greatest living Englishman, top ten for definite.
    There's a very slow and genteel cage-fight between him, Melvyn Bragg and Ian McKellen. Throw Brian Blessed and Tom Baker in there and it'd be a wild, if rather charming, evening.

    Also occurs to me, now that I write them out - the North is very well represented in the national treasure list.
    Also add in Nigel Blackwell. Also of the North.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,315
    edited September 5
    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    Candidate for greatest living Englishman, top ten for definite.
    There's a very slow and genteel cage-fight between him, Melvyn Bragg and Ian McKellen. Throw Brian Blessed and Tom Baker in there and it'd be a wild, if rather charming, evening.

    Also occurs to me, now that I write them out - the North is very well represented in the national treasure list.
    Sir DA? Or is he safely apart from that pack?

    Edit: Leicester is certainly Midlands, definitely not North.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,989
    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    Candidate for greatest living Englishman, top ten for definite.
    There's a very slow and genteel cage-fight between him, Melvyn Bragg and Ian McKellen. Throw Brian Blessed and Tom Baker in there and it'd be a wild, if rather charming, evening.

    Also occurs to me, now that I write them out - the North is very well represented in the national treasure list.
    I appreciate Bragg's talent, but he's greasy.
  • Pleasingly from a next election watching point of view im likely to be moving soon away from boring old Clive Lewis' Norwich South to North Norfolk where a delicious Lib Con rematch is on the cards

    Lib v Reform you mean
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,318
    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    Candidate for greatest living Englishman, top ten for definite.
    There's a very slow and genteel cage-fight between him, Melvyn Bragg and Ian McKellen. Throw Brian Blessed and Tom Baker in there and it'd be a wild, if rather charming, evening.

    Also occurs to me, now that I write them out - the North is very well represented in the national treasure list.
    Sir DA? Or is he safely apart from that pack?

    Edit: Leicester is certainly Midlands, definitely not North.
    I picture him above it all. A sublime figure watching over us. A little sad.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,842

    Pleasingly from a next election watching point of view im likely to be moving soon away from boring old Clive Lewis' Norwich South to North Norfolk where a delicious Lib Con rematch is on the cards

    Lib v Reform you mean
    No, i don't.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,595
    edited September 5
    ohnotnow said:

    carnforth said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    "In a 2024 interview with Radio Times, Palin explained his reasoning for parting ways with the BBC was because they wanted more control over his work: "There was the feeling that the BBC wanted to interfere a little more. They wanted to control it a little more.

    "They had this new way of presenting shows — which I would get absolutely, desperately frustrated with — where they would show, in the first five minutes, all the great moments of what was to come because this captured viewers. Otherwise, as soon as they see Michael Palin, they’ll switch off.

    "The BBC were going in a different direction and presentation was going in a different direction."

    This sort of banal programme-making is key to what changed in the BBC from the later 1990's onwards. Many younger people simply have no idea of the quality of documentaries that Brutain used to be famous around the world for, and many which are not online are hard to find.

    I have a lot of older BBC (and ITV/regional) documentaries (and one-off drama's) going back to the 60s. It is really quite striking how the decline kicks in the late 80s. I wouldn't like to lay it all at John Birt's door - but he is possibly the 'poster child' for the marked drop in value.
    Yes. Michael Checkland came in in the late 1980"s, because Thatcher hated Alasdair Milne, and his fascinating mix of the patrician and liberal, and began to change the direction, but it was really under Birt that it accelerated. This was a key area in which the late 1990's subtly began to see a decline, despite the optimisn of the rest of the era.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,209
    ohnotnow said:

    carnforth said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    "In a 2024 interview with Radio Times, Palin explained his reasoning for parting ways with the BBC was because they wanted more control over his work: "There was the feeling that the BBC wanted to interfere a little more. They wanted to control it a little more.

    "They had this new way of presenting shows — which I would get absolutely, desperately frustrated with — where they would show, in the first five minutes, all the great moments of what was to come because this captured viewers. Otherwise, as soon as they see Michael Palin, they’ll switch off.

    "The BBC were going in a different direction and presentation was going in a different direction."

    This sort of banal programme-making is key to what changed in the BBC from the later 1990's onwards. Many younger people simply have no idea of the quality of documentaries that Brutain used to be famous around the world for, and many which are not online are hard to find.

    I have a lot of older BBC (and ITV/regional) documentaries (and one-off drama's) going back to the 60s. It is really quite striking how the decline kicks in the late 80s. I wouldn't like to lay it all at John Birt's door - but he is possibly the 'poster child' for the marked drop in value.
    There is also the obsession with music in documentaries now. If you watch Civilisation it’s an intelligent person talking to people like adults. No need for soaring music to indicate to the viewers how they should be feeling.

    It’s spread to drama too where the accompanying soundtrack has to inform the viewer they have amazing taste in music, “see, we are so in touch with the era we have the best tunes”, The Gold was great but it felt like there was some arch need to show they got the music and the vibe yet the guys and the times weren’t surrounded by these hip tunes, they had some shitty radio stations that played whatever was on not a playlist of the best of the 80s.

    I love music but there seems to be an inability to separate the Spotify world with real life.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,150

    moonshine said:

    The big winners out of today are Yvette Cooper (for the immediate boost) and Shabana Mahmood (for the potential benefit) I think.

    Yvette now is in her second great office of state, it’s a “safe” one, it’s moved her on from the potential pitfalls of the Home Office; and she stays at the top of government. If Starmer were to fall under the proverbial bus, she has the profile and the seniority to be in pole position to succeed, I think.

    Mahmood could be an even bigger winner, if she is able to present herself as tough on immigration (she is on the right of Labour on this) and if she benefits from any kind of good news on that front she could become a very strong candidate for next leader. She does however have the poison chalice of the Home Office, so any benefit is potential at this stage - if Labour are seen to fail, her chances recede.

    Defo agree on Cooper.

    She is now surely heir apparent? And without a brief that almost always kills a career.

    If Ed Balls is on TV first thing in the morning tomorrow he may look a little hungover me thinks.
    Yes she might be the one to see out the tail end of the Parliament mightn’t she
    Which would fit nicely as one of Brown's original people.
    What has she ever done? HIPS.. which was a disaster. To talk of her as PM is ludicrous... but that's Labour 4 u.
    Its the usual reshuffle nonsense - Labour have dropped a new turd on the carpet and we have to pretend its amazing and fresh and changes everything. In reality its just more caked in foulness
    That’s very funny and very creative !
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,789

    kle4 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Wow. I mean just fecking wow.

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    ·
    6h
    We paid for Angela Rayner’s education. We paid her wages when she worked for the local council. We paid her wages when she became an MP. We even paid the settlement that enabled her to buy a house. Tax payers have funded every aspect of her entire life.

    https://x.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1963934976417603877


    How long before he is a Reform candidate for Deepings in the Rotten Borough?

    He could say the same for every career Civil Servant. Is he claiming that she delivered no value in work carried out?
    Probably.

    It's like how the average person's view of a local government or civil service worker is that they do absolutely nothing of worth and are incompetent as well, plus they are far too many of them and they are vastly overpaid, which, whatever, people can believe that if they like, but they often illustrate it by adding up the entire cost of them as something that could be put elsewhere, as if they literally do nothing.
    I believe she only actually worked for the council for a year or so, she quickly was elected to work as a full time unite rep for Unison and worked her way up the union movement. Then into politics.

    Union members pay for the union roles do they not?
    I think there are some employer funded union posts but don’t know if she had one
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,423
    edited September 5
    DavidL said:

    Oh the minus side after the day of the blunt knives you have to think Reeves is safe for quite a while. Even Starmer would realise that losing his Chancellor after today's insanity would be terminal.

    Gilt yields have fallen back quite considerably from their highs, which helps matters as well.

    Half of that is due to US jobs data, but beggars can't be choosers.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,705
    Well, now we know who leaked...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,315
    nico67 said:

    moonshine said:

    The big winners out of today are Yvette Cooper (for the immediate boost) and Shabana Mahmood (for the potential benefit) I think.

    Yvette now is in her second great office of state, it’s a “safe” one, it’s moved her on from the potential pitfalls of the Home Office; and she stays at the top of government. If Starmer were to fall under the proverbial bus, she has the profile and the seniority to be in pole position to succeed, I think.

    Mahmood could be an even bigger winner, if she is able to present herself as tough on immigration (she is on the right of Labour on this) and if she benefits from any kind of good news on that front she could become a very strong candidate for next leader. She does however have the poison chalice of the Home Office, so any benefit is potential at this stage - if Labour are seen to fail, her chances recede.

    Defo agree on Cooper.

    She is now surely heir apparent? And without a brief that almost always kills a career.

    If Ed Balls is on TV first thing in the morning tomorrow he may look a little hungover me thinks.
    Yes she might be the one to see out the tail end of the Parliament mightn’t she
    Which would fit nicely as one of Brown's original people.
    What has she ever done? HIPS.. which was a disaster. To talk of her as PM is ludicrous... but that's Labour 4 u.
    Its the usual reshuffle nonsense - Labour have dropped a new turd on the carpet and we have to pretend its amazing and fresh and changes everything. In reality its just more caked in foulness
    That’s very funny and very creative !
    Well, with a name like that he's going to be very sensitive.
  • viewcode said:

    Well, now we know who leaked...

    Go on.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,842
    nico67 said:

    moonshine said:

    The big winners out of today are Yvette Cooper (for the immediate boost) and Shabana Mahmood (for the potential benefit) I think.

    Yvette now is in her second great office of state, it’s a “safe” one, it’s moved her on from the potential pitfalls of the Home Office; and she stays at the top of government. If Starmer were to fall under the proverbial bus, she has the profile and the seniority to be in pole position to succeed, I think.

    Mahmood could be an even bigger winner, if she is able to present herself as tough on immigration (she is on the right of Labour on this) and if she benefits from any kind of good news on that front she could become a very strong candidate for next leader. She does however have the poison chalice of the Home Office, so any benefit is potential at this stage - if Labour are seen to fail, her chances recede.

    Defo agree on Cooper.

    She is now surely heir apparent? And without a brief that almost always kills a career.

    If Ed Balls is on TV first thing in the morning tomorrow he may look a little hungover me thinks.
    Yes she might be the one to see out the tail end of the Parliament mightn’t she
    Which would fit nicely as one of Brown's original people.
    What has she ever done? HIPS.. which was a disaster. To talk of her as PM is ludicrous... but that's Labour 4 u.
    Its the usual reshuffle nonsense - Labour have dropped a new turd on the carpet and we have to pretend its amazing and fresh and changes everything. In reality its just more caked in foulness
    That’s very funny and very creative !
    That doesnt sound like me
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,318
    carnforth said:

    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Michael Palin's Iraq is currently on Channel 5, which, not that widely known, is some of his best ever work.

    I enjoyed his recent-ish series travelling North Korea too. Quite sensitively done.
    Yes. He's getting better and more mature, but ironically not signed up by the BBC any more as a standard-bearer, which sums up the current fear of subtlety and complexity.
    Candidate for greatest living Englishman, top ten for definite.
    There's a very slow and genteel cage-fight between him, Melvyn Bragg and Ian McKellen. Throw Brian Blessed and Tom Baker in there and it'd be a wild, if rather charming, evening.

    Also occurs to me, now that I write them out - the North is very well represented in the national treasure list.
    I appreciate Bragg's talent, but he's greasy.
    I don't think the UK could embrace a national treasure which didn't have a flaw. The delight in playing old vinyl is the crackle.
  • Pleasingly from a next election watching point of view im likely to be moving soon away from boring old Clive Lewis' Norwich South to North Norfolk where a delicious Lib Con rematch is on the cards

    Lib v Reform you mean
    No, i don't.
    I note the Daily Mail is seeking a coming together of Reform and the Conservatives

    I don’t see it but I didn't see Rayner resigning this time last week
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