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44% of the public are liars, in fact 59% of them are liars once you add Don't Knows

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,558
    edited August 15

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:


    John Bolton
    @AmbJohnBolton
    ·
    1h
    It’s a mistake for Ukraine to agree to a ceasefire. If there’s a ceasefire and lines are drawn at battlefronts, those ceasefire lines become the new Russia-Ukraine border, ceding significant territory to Russia.

    https://x.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1956424401466839530

    Guys like Bolton don’t understand that their musings are less than helpful at a time of delicate negotiations.
    It’s useful for Putin to know not everyone in America is on his side, I think.
    There's a tiny speck of the GOP that still functions as a thinking place of people actually in touch with reality and not just a nodding along dog to anything Trump tweets today.

    As I say tiny. Maybe down to a handful now.
    Remember in the 2012 Presidential debates Romney was the GOP nominee and harder on Putin than Democrat President Obama. Bolton endorsed Romney in January 2012.

    “Russia, this is, without question, our number one geopolitical foe,” Romney, who would be the Republican presidential nominee in the 2012 race against President Barack Obama, told Wolf Blitzer in March of that year. “They — they fight every cause for the world’s worst actors.”
    In the third presidential debate between the two candidates in October 2012, Obama went directly after Romney for that remark. “When you were asked, ‘What’s the biggest geopolitical threat facing America,’ you said ‘Russia.’ Not al Qaeda; you said Russia,” Obama said. “And, the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back, because the Cold War’s been over for 20 years.”
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/22/politics/mitt-romney-russia-ukraine
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,574

    Sandpit said:

    That’s not the real Putin, that’s a body double.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/1956445391127486614

    Certainly doesn't come across as Putin.

    But why on earth would he send a double to do the deal of his lifetime?
    Because he thinks the west will behave like he would behave.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL, Trump has got the USAF lining up F22s to meet Putin.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1956416191678820441

    Difficult to deny he’s showing his strength to the enemy.

    I’ll deny it.
    He’s a raddled old twat showing his pectoral implants to another raddled old twat. In Bone Spurs’ head the USAF is him.
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    Sorry. I assumed your daughter was both you and your ex wife’s joint offspring. I should have read your post more closely. (Checks personal IQ and finds failures.)
    In fairness, it wasn't an unreasonable conclusion to jump to without a careful reading of the post and/or particularly detailed knowledge of Leon's back story.

    I cried unexpectedly too today. I was (because they asked) telling the girls the story of our miscarriage before our eldest was born, and suddenly all the rawness of it came back. All is fiine now of course, and if we hadn't lost that one we wouldn't have the ones we have now - but no way of knowing that at the time.

    Anyway, keeping it light, I've had a splendid day. Llandudno is wonderful. Like, I imagine, British seaside towns used to be - but somehow hasn't been killed off by cheap trips abroad like others have. And its setting is magical. The Great Orme derives its name from 'worm' in its ancient sense of wingless dragon, and I can completely see why.

    Completely agree on Llandudno, they have avoided the fate of many faded resorts like Colwyn Bay and Rhyl (especially Rhyl).
    It's a really interesting case study in what has gone right. It has the advantage over some resorts of setting, which is dramatic, but also the disadvantage that the main beach isn't actually that good.

    We also went to Conwy - not technically a seaside resort, but also a surprisingly pleasant little town and an interesting case study in what has gone right.

    Happy to report also that 20mph limits were nowhere near being the problems I had perceived - the only places I experienced them were places where 20 seemed an entirely reasonable speed to drive.
    I am on the Isle of Wight this week and there is almost an inverse relationship between how good the beach is and how nice the town. Sandown is probably the best beach, but really run down, while Bembridge is really posh, but a poor beach. There are other similar examples.

    It may well be that too much focus on a beach is part of the problem with British seaside resorts, it takes the focus off the town itself. It might be true of other countries too.
    I think you're onto something. Rhyl has a great sandy beach and the sewage outlet pipe goes a couple of miles out to sea now which wasn't the case when I were a child. But no matter how nice the beach is, it's still the Irish Sea.
    Nothing wrong with the Irish Sea.
    But yes, I think Foxy may be on to something. As well as Rhyl, I would add Blackpool and Newquay as towns with really good beaches but where the town itself leaves something to be desired.
    Cornwall doesn't generally follow this rule however

    St Ives, Falmouth, Padstow - all nice or very nice towns with gorgeous beaches

    Penzance, Hayle, Carbis Bay - grottier towns, also with gorgeous beaches

    Maybe Cornwall just has loads of great beaches
    Tenby: lovely town, lovely beach.
    Bamburgh: exceptional beach, very nice village and castle
    Margate and Weymouth: decent on both counts
    Poole: solid town (Bournemouth less so), great beaches
    Weston SM: shit town, shit beach

    But, other towns do fit the theory: Lyme Regis, Hastings, Whitstable, Swansea, Barry, Cromer etc.

    One theory could be that places with very good, large bathing beaches had sandy soil and little or no surface fresh water so didn’t get built up until quite late, during the Victorian beach boom. When resorts declined they didn’t have the pretty historical roots to fall back on.

    You see that with the Sussex and Kent coasts. Inland former coastal towns like Rye or Sandwich get all the nice architecture, while the coastal extensions are more often than not 60s bungalow strips.
    Bamburgh is not an exceptional beach.
    It's not even in the top 5 in Northumberland.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,304

    Sandpit said:

    That’s not the real Putin, that’s a body double.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/1956445391127486614

    Certainly doesn't come across as Putin.

    But why on earth would he send a double to do the deal of his lifetime?
    Because he thinks the west will behave like he would behave.
    High windows?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,424
    edited August 15
    Hey Putin, you want to see what we sent to Iran, and managed to get it back before anyone noticed it was even there in the first place…?


  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,574
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL, Trump has got the USAF lining up F22s to meet Putin.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1956416191678820441

    Difficult to deny he’s showing his strength to the enemy.

    I’ll deny it.
    He’s a raddled old twat showing his pectoral implants to another raddled old twat. In Bone Spurs’ head the USAF is him.
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    Sorry. I assumed your daughter was both you and your ex wife’s joint offspring. I should have read your post more closely. (Checks personal IQ and finds failures.)
    In fairness, it wasn't an unreasonable conclusion to jump to without a careful reading of the post and/or particularly detailed knowledge of Leon's back story.

    I cried unexpectedly too today. I was (because they asked) telling the girls the story of our miscarriage before our eldest was born, and suddenly all the rawness of it came back. All is fiine now of course, and if we hadn't lost that one we wouldn't have the ones we have now - but no way of knowing that at the time.

    Anyway, keeping it light, I've had a splendid day. Llandudno is wonderful. Like, I imagine, British seaside towns used to be - but somehow hasn't been killed off by cheap trips abroad like others have. And its setting is magical. The Great Orme derives its name from 'worm' in its ancient sense of wingless dragon, and I can completely see why.

    Completely agree on Llandudno, they have avoided the fate of many faded resorts like Colwyn Bay and Rhyl (especially Rhyl).
    It's a really interesting case study in what has gone right. It has the advantage over some resorts of setting, which is dramatic, but also the disadvantage that the main beach isn't actually that good.

    We also went to Conwy - not technically a seaside resort, but also a surprisingly pleasant little town and an interesting case study in what has gone right.

    Happy to report also that 20mph limits were nowhere near being the problems I had perceived - the only places I experienced them were places where 20 seemed an entirely reasonable speed to drive.
    I am on the Isle of Wight this week and there is almost an inverse relationship between how good the beach is and how nice the town. Sandown is probably the best beach, but really run down, while Bembridge is really posh, but a poor beach. There are other similar examples.

    It may well be that too much focus on a beach is part of the problem with British seaside resorts, it takes the focus off the town itself. It might be true of other countries too.
    I think you're onto something. Rhyl has a great sandy beach and the sewage outlet pipe goes a couple of miles out to sea now which wasn't the case when I were a child. But no matter how nice the beach is, it's still the Irish Sea.
    Nothing wrong with the Irish Sea.
    But yes, I think Foxy may be on to something. As well as Rhyl, I would add Blackpool and Newquay as towns with really good beaches but where the town itself leaves something to be desired.
    Cornwall doesn't generally follow this rule however

    St Ives, Falmouth, Padstow - all nice or very nice towns with gorgeous beaches

    Penzance, Hayle, Carbis Bay - grottier towns, also with gorgeous beaches

    Maybe Cornwall just has loads of great beaches
    Tenby: lovely town, lovely beach.
    Bamburgh: exceptional beach, very nice village and castle
    Margate and Weymouth: decent on both counts
    Poole: solid town (Bournemouth less so), great beaches
    Weston SM: shit town, shit beach

    But, other towns do fit the theory: Lyme Regis, Hastings, Whitstable, Swansea, Barry, Cromer etc.

    One theory could be that places with very good, large bathing beaches had sandy soil and little or no surface fresh water so didn’t get built up until quite late, during the Victorian beach boom. When resorts declined they didn’t have the pretty historical roots to fall back on.

    You see that with the Sussex and Kent coasts. Inland former coastal towns like Rye or Sandwich get all the nice architecture, while the coastal extensions are more often than not 60s bungalow strips.
    Laguna Beach… lovely town… 3 ok beaches and 9 superlative ones
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,849
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Sandpit said:


    John Bolton
    @AmbJohnBolton
    ·
    1h
    It’s a mistake for Ukraine to agree to a ceasefire. If there’s a ceasefire and lines are drawn at battlefronts, those ceasefire lines become the new Russia-Ukraine border, ceding significant territory to Russia.

    https://x.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1956424401466839530

    Guys like Bolton don’t understand that their musings are less than helpful at a time of delicate negotiations.
    I think that's entirely wrong.
    In a democracy an opinion is something you express. I doubt it will have any effect on the negotiation.

    FWIW, the deteriorating situation appears to have improved in the last 24 hours.

    Russians are getting absolutely destroyed in their breaktrough area north of Pokrovsk.

    Almost all territory is back in Ukrainian control.

    https://x.com/TallbarFIN/status/1956413714355073126
    Too much to hope that this is Russias ‘Battle of the Bulge’?
  • Since its a slow news day with absolutely nothing interesting happening politically around the globe today, great to have the Premier League back.

    From 2-0 to 2-2, then ending at 4-2, what a game to kick off the season.

    Great to see the tributes to Jota throughout and touching to see Salah verging on tears joining the fans in a tribute to him after the game.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403
    Cambois. Druridge Bay.
    Now they are beaches.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,574

    Sandpit said:

    That’s not the real Putin, that’s a body double.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/1956445391127486614

    Certainly doesn't come across as Putin.

    But why on earth would he send a double to do the deal of his lifetime?
    Because he thinks the west will behave like he would behave.
    High windows?
    Or an arrest or a road accident.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,304
    kinabalu said:

    Never seen Putin looking happier.

    He does look well, doesn't he. Trying to boycott it but inadvertently caught a glimpse.
    As Trump loves up his bestie mate from Moscow on the red carpet Russian troops are torturing prisoners of war and drones flood Ukr skies.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,574

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Sandpit said:


    John Bolton
    @AmbJohnBolton
    ·
    1h
    It’s a mistake for Ukraine to agree to a ceasefire. If there’s a ceasefire and lines are drawn at battlefronts, those ceasefire lines become the new Russia-Ukraine border, ceding significant territory to Russia.

    https://x.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1956424401466839530

    Guys like Bolton don’t understand that their musings are less than helpful at a time of delicate negotiations.
    I think that's entirely wrong.
    In a democracy an opinion is something you express. I doubt it will have any effect on the negotiation.

    FWIW, the deteriorating situation appears to have improved in the last 24 hours.

    Russians are getting absolutely destroyed in their breaktrough area north of Pokrovsk.

    Almost all territory is back in Ukrainian control.

    https://x.com/TallbarFIN/status/1956413714355073126
    Too much to hope that this is Russias ‘Battle of the Bulge’?
    Yes

    It was a localised breakthrough that was repelled by strength in depth. Totally ordinary course but bigged up by western media
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,867
    dixiedean said:

    Cambois. Druridge Bay.
    Now they are beaches.

    Bondi, Taylor-Green, Noem, Gabbard, now they are beaches.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,219
    .
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    On topic, this happened to me the other day sitting on a train. Couple get on, looks like they are heading for the airport for a holiday.

    She is miffed because he has walked her to the 1713 express train rather than their intended 1731 train. This means they will be early, and thus have to change mid-journey and wait 15 minutes or so to get their original train as the express one isn't stopping at their final station.

    Not a full blown row, just a series of half-muttered bitter nips, jibes, barbs and non-sequiturs at each other about the fact somehow they've ended up on this slightly earlier train. Netted out they have to wait the same amount of time either way, either at the original station to get a slightly later train or mid journey to transfer to the original train, but they are guaranteed to get there at the original intended time. Still, this displeases her immensely.

    I wasn't really trying to listen in or block them out either way, but was hard to avoid somehow being privy to it. I felt quite sorry for the guy. Not "it's your fault we were late, missed our train and flight and now the holiday is RUINED!!" but instead "it's your fault we were early BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T LISTEN TO ME, now we have to change trains so that we get to the destination at exactly the original time we intended anyway".

    I did wonder (a) how their holiday would go and (b) how much mileage was left in the relationship.

    Bickering with a partner is par for the course. Mrs Foxy and I were bickering about the playlist while driving earlier. It's perfectly possible to bicker for decades. 36 years for Me and Mrs Foxy this weekend.

    I am suspicious of couples that never argue. There's some weird dynamic usually, such as an oppressive partner, or simply extreme fragility as if one sharp word would end things. It must be so wearing to be walking on eggshells the whole time. Not universally of course, Foxy jr and his partner claim to have never argued in 8 years and seem perfectly content.
    I argue with my wife fairly regularly.
    My kids long since learned it means nothing; it occasionally disturbs friends, which amuses us.
    Everyone has their own relationship quirks, but I had a couple of serious girlfriends before Mrs Foxy, and don't recall arguing with any of them, even including the dumping/being dumped.

    Indeed it is part of the attraction to Mrs Foxy. She has always been feisty, indeed I think I realised I was in love when she was giving me a serious dressing down (fully deserved!) A few weeks into our relationship.
    I have quite a lot of marital arguments, including a number of political ones (she thinks I’m very right wing) but my parents almost never argued or even bickered, so for the first decade of my marriage I thought we were freakishly warlike as a couple.
    There's healthy and unhealthy arguing, I think.
    Kids who were brought up with the latter going on around them, sometimes seem to have trouble recognising the former.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,219
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:


    John Bolton
    @AmbJohnBolton
    ·
    1h
    It’s a mistake for Ukraine to agree to a ceasefire. If there’s a ceasefire and lines are drawn at battlefronts, those ceasefire lines become the new Russia-Ukraine border, ceding significant territory to Russia.

    https://x.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1956424401466839530

    Guys like Bolton don’t understand that their musings are less than helpful at a time of delicate negotiations.
    It’s useful for Putin to know not everyone in America is on his side, I think.
    There's a tiny speck of the GOP that still functions as a thinking place of people actually in touch with reality and not just a nodding along dog to anything Trump tweets today.

    As I say tiny. Maybe down to a handful now.
    Remember in the 2012 Presidential debates Romney was the GOP nominee and harder on Putin than Democrat President Obama. Bolton endorsed Romney in January 2012.

    “Russia, this is, without question, our number one geopolitical foe,” Romney, who would be the Republican presidential nominee in the 2012 race against President Barack Obama, told Wolf Blitzer in March of that year. “They — they fight every cause for the world’s worst actors.”
    In the third presidential debate between the two candidates in October 2012, Obama went directly after Romney for that remark. “When you were asked, ‘What’s the biggest geopolitical threat facing America,’ you said ‘Russia.’ Not al Qaeda; you said Russia,” Obama said. “And, the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back, because the Cold War’s been over for 20 years.”
    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/22/politics/mitt-romney-russia-ukraine
    That's 13 years ago now though.
    Compare the evolution of the Democratic Party on segregation/Civil rights say 1959 to 1972.
    Just because it wasn't that long ago doesn't mean it is reversible change.
    The Democrats are the Russia hawks now.
  • HYUFD said:

    DM_Andy said:

    HYUFD said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dominic Cummings believes Angela Raynor could be PM pretty soon.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZRZBXmAFdOg

    Can't see it, Rayner's chance passed when she didn't stand in 2020. The membership remaining is significantly more centre now, Reeves v Streeting for the final two unless Burnham gets into Parliament before Starmer quits.
    There is no final 2 in Labour, anyone nominated by enough MPs goes straight to the membership and the latest Labourlist poll has Rayner winning any leadership contest comfortably, only Burnham beats her but is not an MP. If the Tories had Labour's election system for its leaders Sunak for example would likely never have become PM.

    As Cummings says she would likely promise them a wealth tax etc
    https://labourlist.org/2025/06/angela-rayner-andy-burnham-labour-leadership-labourlist-survation-poll/
    It's an STV election of the membership (currently at least) so if no-one gets to 50% the lowest gets eliminated each round. So there is likely to be a final two.

    Picked by members not MPs and on that poll Rayner would win it comfortably against anyone likely to stand on Labour benches in the Commons
    I can definitely see it as a possibility.

    The budget looks like a disaster in the making as I can't conceive of any budget that will keep all of the markets, the voters and Lab MPs on side.

    And then next year's elections ought to be a massive worry too. Lab lost 2 inner city wards to the Greens last night adding to the growing pool of loses to Reform.

    If Lab come third in Wales (and even Scotland) that would be seismic. On top of that, in the 2022 English local elections Lab had a NEV of 35% and won 64% of the seats in London on 42% of the vote. This points to huge losses.

    The one thing that Cummings doesn't mention is the Lab rules that Rayner would have to stab Starmer in the front.

    My view of a PM Rayner is that she may do a bit better in the Red Wall but I can't see her going down well with middle class southerners.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Sandpit said:


    John Bolton
    @AmbJohnBolton
    ·
    1h
    It’s a mistake for Ukraine to agree to a ceasefire. If there’s a ceasefire and lines are drawn at battlefronts, those ceasefire lines become the new Russia-Ukraine border, ceding significant territory to Russia.

    https://x.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1956424401466839530

    Guys like Bolton don’t understand that their musings are less than helpful at a time of delicate negotiations.
    I think that's entirely wrong.
    In a democracy an opinion is something you express. I doubt it will have any effect on the negotiation.

    FWIW, the deteriorating situation appears to have improved in the last 24 hours.

    Russians are getting absolutely destroyed in their breaktrough area north of Pokrovsk.

    Almost all territory is back in Ukrainian control.

    https://x.com/TallbarFIN/status/1956413714355073126
    Too much to hope that this is Russias ‘Battle of the Bulge’?
    Telly Savalas in a tank!
    The Bulge failed largely due to chronic fuel shortages though. Not something Russia has.
  • Sandpit said:

    That’s not the real Putin, that’s a body double.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/1956445391127486614

    Certainly doesn't come across as Putin.

    But why on earth would he send a double to do the deal of his lifetime?
    Because he thinks the west will behave like he would behave.
    High windows?
    Or an arrest or a road accident.
    I've been re-watching 24 recently and its funny how dated some of the politics already is.

    Quite a few portrayals of the Russians as America's ally, and 'Russian separatists' being terrorists. More terrorists seem to come from Kiev than Russia.

    In one scene the Russian president is attacked and shot at (but survives) in a car in LA.

    What's depressing is how the absurdly corrupt US President Logan, who was quite an absurd character that seemed like the show had really jumped the shark with at the time, now seems almost mild compared to the real deal. And how people react with shock when the President's corruption is revealed and he's dealt with by his own side, rather than them lambasting the Fake News Media and defending it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    There's plenty of scientific evidence for the evolutionary advantages of the importance of feeling (and expressing) sadness.

    Or if you want something less scientific that makes the point of why all our emotions, especially sadness, are important to our survival could I suggest the kids movie Inside Out.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403

    HYUFD said:

    DM_Andy said:

    HYUFD said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dominic Cummings believes Angela Raynor could be PM pretty soon.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZRZBXmAFdOg

    Can't see it, Rayner's chance passed when she didn't stand in 2020. The membership remaining is significantly more centre now, Reeves v Streeting for the final two unless Burnham gets into Parliament before Starmer quits.
    There is no final 2 in Labour, anyone nominated by enough MPs goes straight to the membership and the latest Labourlist poll has Rayner winning any leadership contest comfortably, only Burnham beats her but is not an MP. If the Tories had Labour's election system for its leaders Sunak for example would likely never have become PM.

    As Cummings says she would likely promise them a wealth tax etc
    https://labourlist.org/2025/06/angela-rayner-andy-burnham-labour-leadership-labourlist-survation-poll/
    It's an STV election of the membership (currently at least) so if no-one gets to 50% the lowest gets eliminated each round. So there is likely to be a final two.

    Picked by members not MPs and on that poll Rayner would win it comfortably against anyone likely to stand on Labour benches in the Commons
    I can definitely see it as a possibility.

    The budget looks like a disaster in the making as I can't conceive of any budget that will keep all of the markets, the voters and Lab MPs on side.

    And then next year's elections ought to be a massive worry too. Lab lost 2 inner city wards to the Greens last night adding to the growing pool of loses to Reform.

    If Lab come third in Wales (and even Scotland) that would be seismic. On top of that, in the 2022 English local elections Lab had a NEV of 35% and won 64% of the seats in London on 42% of the vote. This points to huge losses.

    The one thing that Cummings doesn't mention is the Lab rules that Rayner would have to stab Starmer in the front.

    My view of a PM Rayner is that she may do a bit better in the Red Wall but I can't see her going down well with middle class southerners.
    Jesmond is many things.
    But it is only inner city in the sense that Shoreditch is.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,703
    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Sandpit said:


    John Bolton
    @AmbJohnBolton
    ·
    1h
    It’s a mistake for Ukraine to agree to a ceasefire. If there’s a ceasefire and lines are drawn at battlefronts, those ceasefire lines become the new Russia-Ukraine border, ceding significant territory to Russia.

    https://x.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1956424401466839530

    Guys like Bolton don’t understand that their musings are less than helpful at a time of delicate negotiations.
    I think that's entirely wrong.
    In a democracy an opinion is something you express. I doubt it will have any effect on the negotiation.

    FWIW, the deteriorating situation appears to have improved in the last 24 hours.

    Russians are getting absolutely destroyed in their breaktrough area north of Pokrovsk.

    Almost all territory is back in Ukrainian control.

    https://x.com/TallbarFIN/status/1956413714355073126
    Too much to hope that this is Russias ‘Battle of the Bulge’?
    Telly Savalas in a tank!
    The Bulge failed largely due to chronic fuel shortages though. Not something Russia has.
    Might have a money shortage though...and with a third of a million dead, also a people shortage problem too.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    There's plenty of scientific evidence for the evolutionary advantages of the importance of feeling (and expressing) sadness.

    Or if you want something less scientific that makes the point of why all our emotions, especially sadness, are important to our survival could I suggest the kids movie Inside Out.
    Inside Out should be watched by everyone of whatever age.
  • dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Many parts of the brain including especially but not only the cerebral cortex and thalamus and more.

    The brain is a complex and impressive organ.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,304
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    DM_Andy said:

    HYUFD said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Dominic Cummings believes Angela Raynor could be PM pretty soon.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZRZBXmAFdOg

    Can't see it, Rayner's chance passed when she didn't stand in 2020. The membership remaining is significantly more centre now, Reeves v Streeting for the final two unless Burnham gets into Parliament before Starmer quits.
    There is no final 2 in Labour, anyone nominated by enough MPs goes straight to the membership and the latest Labourlist poll has Rayner winning any leadership contest comfortably, only Burnham beats her but is not an MP. If the Tories had Labour's election system for its leaders Sunak for example would likely never have become PM.

    As Cummings says she would likely promise them a wealth tax etc
    https://labourlist.org/2025/06/angela-rayner-andy-burnham-labour-leadership-labourlist-survation-poll/
    It's an STV election of the membership (currently at least) so if no-one gets to 50% the lowest gets eliminated each round. So there is likely to be a final two.

    Picked by members not MPs and on that poll Rayner would win it comfortably against anyone likely to stand on Labour benches in the Commons
    I can definitely see it as a possibility.

    The budget looks like a disaster in the making as I can't conceive of any budget that will keep all of the markets, the voters and Lab MPs on side.

    And then next year's elections ought to be a massive worry too. Lab lost 2 inner city wards to the Greens last night adding to the growing pool of loses to Reform.

    If Lab come third in Wales (and even Scotland) that would be seismic. On top of that, in the 2022 English local elections Lab had a NEV of 35% and won 64% of the seats in London on 42% of the vote. This points to huge losses.

    The one thing that Cummings doesn't mention is the Lab rules that Rayner would have to stab Starmer in the front.

    My view of a PM Rayner is that she may do a bit better in the Red Wall but I can't see her going down well with middle class southerners.
    Jesmond is many things.
    But it is only inner city in the sense that Shoreditch is.
    Yep.

    Alex Niven
    @Alex_Niven
    Hate to be a local pedant/cold fish but seeing some rather inflated takes abt Greens winning South Jesmond council seat by ppl who possibly don’t know the ward that well. It’s a student/young prof heartland (LD before 2011) so quite a modest breakthru in classic Green territory
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,825
    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL, Trump has got the USAF lining up F22s to meet Putin.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1956416191678820441

    Difficult to deny he’s showing his strength to the enemy.

    I’ll deny it.
    He’s a raddled old twat showing his pectoral implants to another raddled old twat. In Bone Spurs’ head the USAF is him.
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    Sorry. I assumed your daughter was both you and your ex wife’s joint offspring. I should have read your post more closely. (Checks personal IQ and finds failures.)
    In fairness, it wasn't an unreasonable conclusion to jump to without a careful reading of the post and/or particularly detailed knowledge of Leon's back story.

    I cried unexpectedly too today. I was (because they asked) telling the girls the story of our miscarriage before our eldest was born, and suddenly all the rawness of it came back. All is fiine now of course, and if we hadn't lost that one we wouldn't have the ones we have now - but no way of knowing that at the time.

    Anyway, keeping it light, I've had a splendid day. Llandudno is wonderful. Like, I imagine, British seaside towns used to be - but somehow hasn't been killed off by cheap trips abroad like others have. And its setting is magical. The Great Orme derives its name from 'worm' in its ancient sense of wingless dragon, and I can completely see why.

    Completely agree on Llandudno, they have avoided the fate of many faded resorts like Colwyn Bay and Rhyl (especially Rhyl).
    It's a really interesting case study in what has gone right. It has the advantage over some resorts of setting, which is dramatic, but also the disadvantage that the main beach isn't actually that good.

    We also went to Conwy - not technically a seaside resort, but also a surprisingly pleasant little town and an interesting case study in what has gone right.

    Happy to report also that 20mph limits were nowhere near being the problems I had perceived - the only places I experienced them were places where 20 seemed an entirely reasonable speed to drive.
    I am on the Isle of Wight this week and there is almost an inverse relationship between how good the beach is and how nice the town. Sandown is probably the best beach, but really run down, while Bembridge is really posh, but a poor beach. There are other similar examples.

    It may well be that too much focus on a beach is part of the problem with British seaside resorts, it takes the focus off the town itself. It might be true of other countries too.
    I think you're onto something. Rhyl has a great sandy beach and the sewage outlet pipe goes a couple of miles out to sea now which wasn't the case when I were a child. But no matter how nice the beach is, it's still the Irish Sea.
    Nothing wrong with the Irish Sea.
    But yes, I think Foxy may be on to something. As well as Rhyl, I would add Blackpool and Newquay as towns with really good beaches but where the town itself leaves something to be desired.
    Cornwall doesn't generally follow this rule however

    St Ives, Falmouth, Padstow - all nice or very nice towns with gorgeous beaches

    Penzance, Hayle, Carbis Bay - grottier towns, also with gorgeous beaches

    Maybe Cornwall just has loads of great beaches
    Tenby: lovely town, lovely beach.
    Bamburgh: exceptional beach, very nice village and castle
    Margate and Weymouth: decent on both counts
    Poole: solid town (Bournemouth less so), great beaches
    Weston SM: shit town, shit beach

    But, other towns do fit the theory: Lyme Regis, Hastings, Whitstable, Swansea, Barry, Cromer etc.

    One theory could be that places with very good, large bathing beaches had sandy soil and little or no surface fresh water so didn’t get built up until quite late, during the Victorian beach boom. When resorts declined they didn’t have the pretty historical roots to fall back on.

    You see that with the Sussex and Kent coasts. Inland former coastal towns like Rye or Sandwich get all the nice architecture, while the coastal extensions are more often than not 60s bungalow strips.
    Bamburgh is not an exceptional beach.
    It's not even in the top 5 in Northumberland.
    Oh come off it.



    There are many beautiful beaches in Northumberland, but a beach with a castle on it is a thing of beauty.

    See also Porthluney cove in Cornwall, Manorbier bay in Pembrokeshire and 3 cliffs bay in Gower.

    In fact a large proportion of the best beaches in Europe are overlooked by a castle of some sort. My favourite: Cala de San Pedro in Cabo de Gata.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,854
    Lets hope that all those charged with belonging to Palestine Action choose to have a jury trial and are found not guilty. It's easy to forget posting here that the vast majority in the country aren't racists who follow Farage read the Telegraph and are happy to support genocide. There are about a quarter of the country who are neanderthals but as long as is stays like that we can all feel comfortable. Think about people you know not people who post crap online.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403
    Was in the same class at school as Mrs. Jack Bauer's sister.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,424
    edited August 15

    Sandpit said:

    That’s not the real Putin, that’s a body double.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/1956445391127486614

    Certainly doesn't come across as Putin.

    But why on earth would he send a double to do the deal of his lifetime?
    Because he thinks the west will behave like he would behave.
    High windows?
    Or an arrest or a road accident.
    I've been re-watching 24 recently and its funny how dated some of the politics already is.

    Quite a few portrayals of the Russians as America's ally, and 'Russian separatists' being terrorists. More terrorists seem to come from Kiev than Russia.

    In one scene the Russian president is attacked and shot at (but survives) in a car in LA.

    What's depressing is how the absurdly corrupt US President Logan, who was quite an absurd character that seemed like the show had really jumped the shark with at the time, now seems almost mild compared to the real deal. And how people react with shock when the President's corruption is revealed and he's dealt with by his own side, rather than them lambasting the Fake News Media and defending it.
    That was one of the best TV shows of all time.

    The amazing thing was that the first season was firmed before 9/11, and the subsequent seasons afterwards. The last season, as with so many long-running shows, kinda ran out of steam.

    Oh, and Elisha Cuthbert.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,790
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL, Trump has got the USAF lining up F22s to meet Putin.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1956416191678820441

    Difficult to deny he’s showing his strength to the enemy.

    I’ll deny it.
    He’s a raddled old twat showing his pectoral implants to another raddled old twat. In Bone Spurs’ head the USAF is him.
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    Sorry. I assumed your daughter was both you and your ex wife’s joint offspring. I should have read your post more closely. (Checks personal IQ and finds failures.)
    In fairness, it wasn't an unreasonable conclusion to jump to without a careful reading of the post and/or particularly detailed knowledge of Leon's back story.

    I cried unexpectedly too today. I was (because they asked) telling the girls the story of our miscarriage before our eldest was born, and suddenly all the rawness of it came back. All is fiine now of course, and if we hadn't lost that one we wouldn't have the ones we have now - but no way of knowing that at the time.

    Anyway, keeping it light, I've had a splendid day. Llandudno is wonderful. Like, I imagine, British seaside towns used to be - but somehow hasn't been killed off by cheap trips abroad like others have. And its setting is magical. The Great Orme derives its name from 'worm' in its ancient sense of wingless dragon, and I can completely see why.

    Completely agree on Llandudno, they have avoided the fate of many faded resorts like Colwyn Bay and Rhyl (especially Rhyl).
    It's a really interesting case study in what has gone right. It has the advantage over some resorts of setting, which is dramatic, but also the disadvantage that the main beach isn't actually that good.

    We also went to Conwy - not technically a seaside resort, but also a surprisingly pleasant little town and an interesting case study in what has gone right.

    Happy to report also that 20mph limits were nowhere near being the problems I had perceived - the only places I experienced them were places where 20 seemed an entirely reasonable speed to drive.
    I am on the Isle of Wight this week and there is almost an inverse relationship between how good the beach is and how nice the town. Sandown is probably the best beach, but really run down, while Bembridge is really posh, but a poor beach. There are other similar examples.

    It may well be that too much focus on a beach is part of the problem with British seaside resorts, it takes the focus off the town itself. It might be true of other countries too.
    I think you're onto something. Rhyl has a great sandy beach and the sewage outlet pipe goes a couple of miles out to sea now which wasn't the case when I were a child. But no matter how nice the beach is, it's still the Irish Sea.
    Nothing wrong with the Irish Sea.
    But yes, I think Foxy may be on to something. As well as Rhyl, I would add Blackpool and Newquay as towns with really good beaches but where the town itself leaves something to be desired.
    Cornwall doesn't generally follow this rule however

    St Ives, Falmouth, Padstow - all nice or very nice towns with gorgeous beaches

    Penzance, Hayle, Carbis Bay - grottier towns, also with gorgeous beaches

    Maybe Cornwall just has loads of great beaches
    Tenby: lovely town, lovely beach.
    Bamburgh: exceptional beach, very nice village and castle
    Margate and Weymouth: decent on both counts
    Poole: solid town (Bournemouth less so), great beaches
    Weston SM: shit town, shit beach

    But, other towns do fit the theory: Lyme Regis, Hastings, Whitstable, Swansea, Barry, Cromer etc.

    One theory could be that places with very good, large bathing beaches had sandy soil and little or no surface fresh water so didn’t get built up until quite late, during the Victorian beach boom. When resorts declined they didn’t have the pretty historical roots to fall back on.

    You see that with the Sussex and Kent coasts. Inland former coastal towns like Rye or Sandwich get all the nice architecture, while the coastal extensions are more often than not 60s bungalow strips.
    Ooh, I like that theory! Very good. Not least because I have been looking at a 17th century map of Lancashire on which neither Blackpool or Southport feature, possibly for that very reason.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403
    dixiedean said:

    Was in the same class at school as Mrs. Jack Bauer's sister.

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Many parts of the brain including especially but not only the cerebral cortex and thalamus and more.

    The brain is a complex and impressive organ.
    It is.
    But it isn't the mind.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,180
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It's not really possible to delink brains (stuff) from consciousness entirely. So discussing molecules and atoms WRT mind is more than an assumption. Whether stuff (brains) is conscious as opposed to being the hardware in relation to intangible etherial nonmaterial consciousness creating software has to be a question. One or other must be (I think) more or less true. Both on the face of it are impossible; the progress (leaving aside handwavng) towards describing either possibility in an explanatory way is, so far, zero; whichever is the case the fact of it is mind blowing. In neither case can the universe actually be like we (usually, empirically) assume it to be.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,825
    Roger said:

    Lets hope that all those charged with belonging to Palestine Action choose to have a jury trial and are found not guilty. It's easy to forget posting here that the vast majority in the country aren't racists who follow Farage read the Telegraph and are happy to support genocide. There are about a quarter of the country who are neanderthals but as long as is stays like that we can all feel comfortable. Think about people you know not people who post crap online.

    I thought the Farage and Tory reaction to the jury verdict on Ricky Jones was odd, even though frankly I think it was the wrong verdict.

    They said it was an example of 2 tier justice, but it was a jury verdict. Members of the public. They seem to be condemning the jury for wrongthink.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403
    edited August 15
    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL, Trump has got the USAF lining up F22s to meet Putin.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1956416191678820441

    Difficult to deny he’s showing his strength to the enemy.

    I’ll deny it.
    He’s a raddled old twat showing his pectoral implants to another raddled old twat. In Bone Spurs’ head the USAF is him.
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    Sorry. I assumed your daughter was both you and your ex wife’s joint offspring. I should have read your post more closely. (Checks personal IQ and finds failures.)
    In fairness, it wasn't an unreasonable conclusion to jump to without a careful reading of the post and/or particularly detailed knowledge of Leon's back story.

    I cried unexpectedly too today. I was (because they asked) telling the girls the story of our miscarriage before our eldest was born, and suddenly all the rawness of it came back. All is fiine now of course, and if we hadn't lost that one we wouldn't have the ones we have now - but no way of knowing that at the time.

    Anyway, keeping it light, I've had a splendid day. Llandudno is wonderful. Like, I imagine, British seaside towns used to be - but somehow hasn't been killed off by cheap trips abroad like others have. And its setting is magical. The Great Orme derives its name from 'worm' in its ancient sense of wingless dragon, and I can completely see why.

    Completely agree on Llandudno, they have avoided the fate of many faded resorts like Colwyn Bay and Rhyl (especially Rhyl).
    It's a really interesting case study in what has gone right. It has the advantage over some resorts of setting, which is dramatic, but also the disadvantage that the main beach isn't actually that good.

    We also went to Conwy - not technically a seaside resort, but also a surprisingly pleasant little town and an interesting case study in what has gone right.

    Happy to report also that 20mph limits were nowhere near being the problems I had perceived - the only places I experienced them were places where 20 seemed an entirely reasonable speed to drive.
    I am on the Isle of Wight this week and there is almost an inverse relationship between how good the beach is and how nice the town. Sandown is probably the best beach, but really run down, while Bembridge is really posh, but a poor beach. There are other similar examples.

    It may well be that too much focus on a beach is part of the problem with British seaside resorts, it takes the focus off the town itself. It might be true of other countries too.
    I think you're onto something. Rhyl has a great sandy beach and the sewage outlet pipe goes a couple of miles out to sea now which wasn't the case when I were a child. But no matter how nice the beach is, it's still the Irish Sea.
    Nothing wrong with the Irish Sea.
    But yes, I think Foxy may be on to something. As well as Rhyl, I would add Blackpool and Newquay as towns with really good beaches but where the town itself leaves something to be desired.
    Cornwall doesn't generally follow this rule however

    St Ives, Falmouth, Padstow - all nice or very nice towns with gorgeous beaches

    Penzance, Hayle, Carbis Bay - grottier towns, also with gorgeous beaches

    Maybe Cornwall just has loads of great beaches
    Tenby: lovely town, lovely beach.
    Bamburgh: exceptional beach, very nice village and castle
    Margate and Weymouth: decent on both counts
    Poole: solid town (Bournemouth less so), great beaches
    Weston SM: shit town, shit beach

    But, other towns do fit the theory: Lyme Regis, Hastings, Whitstable, Swansea, Barry, Cromer etc.

    One theory could be that places with very good, large bathing beaches had sandy soil and little or no surface fresh water so didn’t get built up until quite late, during the Victorian beach boom. When resorts declined they didn’t have the pretty historical roots to fall back on.

    You see that with the Sussex and Kent coasts. Inland former coastal towns like Rye or Sandwich get all the nice architecture, while the coastal extensions are more often than not 60s bungalow strips.
    Bamburgh is not an exceptional beach.
    It's not even in the top 5 in Northumberland.
    Oh come off it.



    There are many beautiful beaches in Northumberland, but a beach with a castle on it is a thing of beauty.

    See also Porthluney cove in Cornwall, Manorbier bay in Pembrokeshire and 3 cliffs bay in Gower.

    In fact a large proportion of the best beaches in Europe are overlooked by a castle of some sort. My favourite: Cala de San Pedro in Cabo de Gata.
    Sorry.
    I live in Northumberland.
    A place is appreciated round these parts for NOT having a fucking massive castle obscuring the view.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,219
    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Which minds without a brain have you come across ?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403
    edited August 15
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL, Trump has got the USAF lining up F22s to meet Putin.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1956416191678820441

    Difficult to deny he’s showing his strength to the enemy.

    I’ll deny it.
    He’s a raddled old twat showing his pectoral implants to another raddled old twat. In Bone Spurs’ head the USAF is him.
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    Sorry. I assumed your daughter was both you and your ex wife’s joint offspring. I should have read your post more closely. (Checks personal IQ and finds failures.)
    In fairness, it wasn't an unreasonable conclusion to jump to without a careful reading of the post and/or particularly detailed knowledge of Leon's back story.

    I cried unexpectedly too today. I was (because they asked) telling the girls the story of our miscarriage before our eldest was born, and suddenly all the rawness of it came back. All is fiine now of course, and if we hadn't lost that one we wouldn't have the ones we have now - but no way of knowing that at the time.

    Anyway, keeping it light, I've had a splendid day. Llandudno is wonderful. Like, I imagine, British seaside towns used to be - but somehow hasn't been killed off by cheap trips abroad like others have. And its setting is magical. The Great Orme derives its name from 'worm' in its ancient sense of wingless dragon, and I can completely see why.

    Completely agree on Llandudno, they have avoided the fate of many faded resorts like Colwyn Bay and Rhyl (especially Rhyl).
    It's a really interesting case study in what has gone right. It has the advantage over some resorts of setting, which is dramatic, but also the disadvantage that the main beach isn't actually that good.

    We also went to Conwy - not technically a seaside resort, but also a surprisingly pleasant little town and an interesting case study in what has gone right.

    Happy to report also that 20mph limits were nowhere near being the problems I had perceived - the only places I experienced them were places where 20 seemed an entirely reasonable speed to drive.
    I am on the Isle of Wight this week and there is almost an inverse relationship between how good the beach is and how nice the town. Sandown is probably the best beach, but really run down, while Bembridge is really posh, but a poor beach. There are other similar examples.

    It may well be that too much focus on a beach is part of the problem with British seaside resorts, it takes the focus off the town itself. It might be true of other countries too.
    I think you're onto something. Rhyl has a great sandy beach and the sewage outlet pipe goes a couple of miles out to sea now which wasn't the case when I were a child. But no matter how nice the beach is, it's still the Irish Sea.
    Nothing wrong with the Irish Sea.
    But yes, I think Foxy may be on to something. As well as Rhyl, I would add Blackpool and Newquay as towns with really good beaches but where the town itself leaves something to be desired.
    Cornwall doesn't generally follow this rule however

    St Ives, Falmouth, Padstow - all nice or very nice towns with gorgeous beaches

    Penzance, Hayle, Carbis Bay - grottier towns, also with gorgeous beaches

    Maybe Cornwall just has loads of great beaches
    Tenby: lovely town, lovely beach.
    Bamburgh: exceptional beach, very nice village and castle
    Margate and Weymouth: decent on both counts
    Poole: solid town (Bournemouth less so), great beaches
    Weston SM: shit town, shit beach

    But, other towns do fit the theory: Lyme Regis, Hastings, Whitstable, Swansea, Barry, Cromer etc.

    One theory could be that places with very good, large bathing beaches had sandy soil and little or no surface fresh water so didn’t get built up until quite late, during the Victorian beach boom. When resorts declined they didn’t have the pretty historical roots to fall back on.

    You see that with the Sussex and Kent coasts. Inland former coastal towns like Rye or Sandwich get all the nice architecture, while the coastal extensions are more often than not 60s bungalow strips.
    Ooh, I like that theory! Very good. Not least because I have been looking at a 17th century map of Lancashire on which neither Blackpool or Southport feature, possibly for that very reason.
    The west coast is also rising at a rapid rate. The Victorians built esplandes in those places by the sea. Now you can barely see it.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,180
    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Lets hope that all those charged with belonging to Palestine Action choose to have a jury trial and are found not guilty. It's easy to forget posting here that the vast majority in the country aren't racists who follow Farage read the Telegraph and are happy to support genocide. There are about a quarter of the country who are neanderthals but as long as is stays like that we can all feel comfortable. Think about people you know not people who post crap online.

    I thought the Farage and Tory reaction to the jury verdict on Ricky Jones was odd, even though frankly I think it was the wrong verdict.

    They said it was an example of 2 tier justice, but it was a jury verdict. Members of the public. They seem to be condemning the jury for wrongthink.
    The verdict on a section 45 Serious Crime Act 2007 charge has to take account of the intentions of the defendant. I can't see how anyone can be in a better position than the jury to decide what was, or may have been, in the mind of Jones at the time. see links below



    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/27/section/45


    https://gardencourtchambers.co.uk/jury-acquits-defendant-of-encouraging-violent-disorder-at-anti-racist-protest/
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Was in the same class at school as Mrs. Jack Bauer's sister.

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Many parts of the brain including especially but not only the cerebral cortex and thalamus and more.

    The brain is a complex and impressive organ.
    It is.
    But it isn't the mind.
    Sure it is. Which is why brain damage can affect people's personality.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,825
    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL, Trump has got the USAF lining up F22s to meet Putin.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1956416191678820441

    Difficult to deny he’s showing his strength to the enemy.

    I’ll deny it.
    He’s a raddled old twat showing his pectoral implants to another raddled old twat. In Bone Spurs’ head the USAF is him.
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    Sorry. I assumed your daughter was both you and your ex wife’s joint offspring. I should have read your post more closely. (Checks personal IQ and finds failures.)
    In fairness, it wasn't an unreasonable conclusion to jump to without a careful reading of the post and/or particularly detailed knowledge of Leon's back story.

    I cried unexpectedly too today. I was (because they asked) telling the girls the story of our miscarriage before our eldest was born, and suddenly all the rawness of it came back. All is fiine now of course, and if we hadn't lost that one we wouldn't have the ones we have now - but no way of knowing that at the time.

    Anyway, keeping it light, I've had a splendid day. Llandudno is wonderful. Like, I imagine, British seaside towns used to be - but somehow hasn't been killed off by cheap trips abroad like others have. And its setting is magical. The Great Orme derives its name from 'worm' in its ancient sense of wingless dragon, and I can completely see why.

    Completely agree on Llandudno, they have avoided the fate of many faded resorts like Colwyn Bay and Rhyl (especially Rhyl).
    It's a really interesting case study in what has gone right. It has the advantage over some resorts of setting, which is dramatic, but also the disadvantage that the main beach isn't actually that good.

    We also went to Conwy - not technically a seaside resort, but also a surprisingly pleasant little town and an interesting case study in what has gone right.

    Happy to report also that 20mph limits were nowhere near being the problems I had perceived - the only places I experienced them were places where 20 seemed an entirely reasonable speed to drive.
    I am on the Isle of Wight this week and there is almost an inverse relationship between how good the beach is and how nice the town. Sandown is probably the best beach, but really run down, while Bembridge is really posh, but a poor beach. There are other similar examples.

    It may well be that too much focus on a beach is part of the problem with British seaside resorts, it takes the focus off the town itself. It might be true of other countries too.
    I think you're onto something. Rhyl has a great sandy beach and the sewage outlet pipe goes a couple of miles out to sea now which wasn't the case when I were a child. But no matter how nice the beach is, it's still the Irish Sea.
    Nothing wrong with the Irish Sea.
    But yes, I think Foxy may be on to something. As well as Rhyl, I would add Blackpool and Newquay as towns with really good beaches but where the town itself leaves something to be desired.
    Cornwall doesn't generally follow this rule however

    St Ives, Falmouth, Padstow - all nice or very nice towns with gorgeous beaches

    Penzance, Hayle, Carbis Bay - grottier towns, also with gorgeous beaches

    Maybe Cornwall just has loads of great beaches
    Tenby: lovely town, lovely beach.
    Bamburgh: exceptional beach, very nice village and castle
    Margate and Weymouth: decent on both counts
    Poole: solid town (Bournemouth less so), great beaches
    Weston SM: shit town, shit beach

    But, other towns do fit the theory: Lyme Regis, Hastings, Whitstable, Swansea, Barry, Cromer etc.

    One theory could be that places with very good, large bathing beaches had sandy soil and little or no surface fresh water so didn’t get built up until quite late, during the Victorian beach boom. When resorts declined they didn’t have the pretty historical roots to fall back on.

    You see that with the Sussex and Kent coasts. Inland former coastal towns like Rye or Sandwich get all the nice architecture, while the coastal extensions are more often than not 60s bungalow strips.
    Bamburgh is not an exceptional beach.
    It's not even in the top 5 in Northumberland.
    Oh come off it.



    There are many beautiful beaches in Northumberland, but a beach with a castle on it is a thing of beauty.

    See also Porthluney cove in Cornwall, Manorbier bay in Pembrokeshire and 3 cliffs bay in Gower.

    In fact a large proportion of the best beaches in Europe are overlooked by a castle of some sort. My favourite: Cala de San Pedro in Cabo de Gata.
    Sorry.
    I live in Northumberland.
    A place is appreciated round these parts for NOT having a fucking massive castle obscuring the view.
    Tear the carbuncle down!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Which minds without a brain have you come across ?
    You could replace brain with liver, heart, skull, lungs, etc. in that question.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,180
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Was in the same class at school as Mrs. Jack Bauer's sister.

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Many parts of the brain including especially but not only the cerebral cortex and thalamus and more.

    The brain is a complex and impressive organ.
    It is.
    But it isn't the mind.
    Mind is either identical with some matter - which seems impossible.
    Or mind is non material - which seems impossible.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,937
    edited August 15
    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Lets hope that all those charged with belonging to Palestine Action choose to have a jury trial and are found not guilty. It's easy to forget posting here that the vast majority in the country aren't racists who follow Farage read the Telegraph and are happy to support genocide. There are about a quarter of the country who are neanderthals but as long as is stays like that we can all feel comfortable. Think about people you know not people who post crap online.

    I thought the Farage and Tory reaction to the jury verdict on Ricky Jones was odd, even though frankly I think it was the wrong verdict.

    They said it was an example of 2 tier justice, but it was a jury verdict. Members of the public. They seem to be condemning the jury for wrongthink.
    You thought it was odd because you're a lefty-liberal. Sorry to be blunt.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,849
    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Which minds without a brain have you come across ?
    You could replace brain with liver, heart, skull, lungs, etc. in that question.
    I think it’s conceivable that the brain/head could be kept alive without the liver, heart, skull, lungs as the brain needs a flow of blood with the right stuff. If you did I’d be willing to bet the consciousnous would be there. Steaming, made probably (see cybermen) but there.

    We don’t know how consciousness works. But it is almost certainly linked to the brain.
  • dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Which minds without a brain have you come across ?
    You could replace brain with liver, heart, skull, lungs, etc. in that question.
    No, you can't, since all of those can be removed and replaced via transplant without changing someone's mind, which comes from the brain.

    If you did a brain transplant, you'd be really having a body transplant instead and the personality would be that of the incoming brain.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,304
    Jay in Kyiv
    @JayinKyiv
    ·
    2h
    Holy shit, they didn't even send the real Putin.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403
    algarkirk said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Was in the same class at school as Mrs. Jack Bauer's sister.

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Many parts of the brain including especially but not only the cerebral cortex and thalamus and more.

    The brain is a complex and impressive organ.
    It is.
    But it isn't the mind.
    Mind is either identical with some matter - which seems impossible.
    Or mind is non material - which seems impossible.

    Panpsychism is a perfectly logically consistent theory.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Was in the same class at school as Mrs. Jack Bauer's sister.

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Many parts of the brain including especially but not only the cerebral cortex and thalamus and more.

    The brain is a complex and impressive organ.
    It is.
    But it isn't the mind.
    Sure it is. Which is why brain damage can affect people's personality.
    How does general anaesthetic work?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,219
    edited August 15
    Texas - DEM Presidential Polling:

    Buttigieg: 22%
    Newsom: 20%
    Harris: 17%
    AOC: 6%
    Sanders: 5%
    Walz: 4%
    Booker: 4%
    Pritzker: 3%
    Whitmer: 2%

    Emerson / Aug 12, 2025

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1956468738204565989

    Does this order already define the contest for the nomination ?
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Was in the same class at school as Mrs. Jack Bauer's sister.

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Many parts of the brain including especially but not only the cerebral cortex and thalamus and more.

    The brain is a complex and impressive organ.
    It is.
    But it isn't the mind.
    Sure it is. Which is why brain damage can affect people's personality.
    How does general anaesthetic work?
    By disrupting the normal communication between nerves and the brain, inducing a state of controlled unconsciousness, thus demonstrating once again that consciousness comes from the brain.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,825
    Other gorgeous beaches with castles:

    Tenby (again)
    Dartmouth castle beach - lovely little med-style cove
    Grouville
    Lindos
    Tintagel
    Aragonse castle, Ischia
    Tossa de mar
    Peniscola

    Next episode: monastic establishments by the seaside.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,304
    Remember kids, over the next 24 - 48 hours, that Putin is losing the war and his economy is on the brink.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,424

    Jay in Kyiv
    @JayinKyiv
    ·
    2h
    Holy shit, they didn't even send the real Putin.

    Some of us noticed this a couple of hours ago.

    That’s not the real Putin, that’s a body double, as Ukranian media has suggested would happen.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Which minds without a brain have you come across ?
    You could replace brain with liver, heart, skull, lungs, etc. in that question.
    No, you can't, since all of those can be removed and replaced via transplant without changing someone's mind, which comes from the brain.

    If you did a brain transplant, you'd be really having a body transplant instead and the personality would be that of the incoming brain.
    How do you know what would happen from a brain transplant?
    That sounds very much like the planets, Sun and stars rotate round the Earth because that's how it looks like it must be logic.
    And that's before the mass of reported personality changes in transplant patients.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,825
    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Lets hope that all those charged with belonging to Palestine Action choose to have a jury trial and are found not guilty. It's easy to forget posting here that the vast majority in the country aren't racists who follow Farage read the Telegraph and are happy to support genocide. There are about a quarter of the country who are neanderthals but as long as is stays like that we can all feel comfortable. Think about people you know not people who post crap online.

    I thought the Farage and Tory reaction to the jury verdict on Ricky Jones was odd, even though frankly I think it was the wrong verdict.

    They said it was an example of 2 tier justice, but it was a jury verdict. Members of the public. They seem to be condemning the jury for wrongthink.
    You thought it was odd because you're a lefty-liberal. Sorry to be blunt.
    You don’t get it.

    Read my post again. 2 political parties criticised a verdict that was reached by members of the public in a jury.

    They were criticising a jury. Not the government, not the judiciary. A jury. Magna Carta.

    Have you ever been called for jury service?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,644
    Sandpit said:

    Jay in Kyiv
    @JayinKyiv
    ·
    2h
    Holy shit, they didn't even send the real Putin.

    Some of us noticed this a couple of hours ago.

    That’s not the real Putin, that’s a body double, as Ukranian media has suggested would happen.
    This feels like tinfoil hat zone.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,849
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Which minds without a brain have you come across ?
    You could replace brain with liver, heart, skull, lungs, etc. in that question.
    No, you can't, since all of those can be removed and replaced via transplant without changing someone's mind, which comes from the brain.

    If you did a brain transplant, you'd be really having a body transplant instead and the personality would be that of the incoming brain.
    How do you know what would happen from a brain transplant?
    That sounds very much like the planets, Sun and stars rotate round the Earth because that's how it looks like it must be logic.
    And that's before the mass of reported personality changes in transplant patients.
    We’ll be onto the Hands of Orlac next…

    You might be right and we will probably never know. But most people think consciounous arises from the brain.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Was in the same class at school as Mrs. Jack Bauer's sister.

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Many parts of the brain including especially but not only the cerebral cortex and thalamus and more.

    The brain is a complex and impressive organ.
    It is.
    But it isn't the mind.
    Sure it is. Which is why brain damage can affect people's personality.
    How does general anaesthetic work?
    By disrupting the normal communication between nerves and the brain, inducing a state of controlled unconsciousness, thus demonstrating once again that consciousness comes from the brain.
    Why doesn't it come from the nerves?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,304

    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    16m
    During the Cold War, it was a pretty sound rule of thumb that any organization with Peace in its name was a Commie front, and any conference dedicated to Peace, was an enterprise of foolish fellow travelers. Putin was a KGB guy, and so it apparently remains the case today.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1956474293933711796
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,825
    Sandpit said:

    Jay in Kyiv
    @JayinKyiv
    ·
    2h
    Holy shit, they didn't even send the real Putin.

    Some of us noticed this a couple of hours ago.

    That’s not the real Putin, that’s a body double, as Ukranian media has suggested would happen.
    I think that’s highly unlikely.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,219
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Was in the same class at school as Mrs. Jack Bauer's sister.

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Many parts of the brain including especially but not only the cerebral cortex and thalamus and more.

    The brain is a complex and impressive organ.
    It is.
    But it isn't the mind.
    Sure it is. Which is why brain damage can affect people's personality.
    How does general anaesthetic work?
    Only when the anaesthetic chemical in question has passed the blood/brain barrier, for a start.

    While the mechanisms are poorly understood, we have some evidence of where in the brain they occur.
    For example:
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1043661825000180
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,849
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Was in the same class at school as Mrs. Jack Bauer's sister.

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Many parts of the brain including especially but not only the cerebral cortex and thalamus and more.

    The brain is a complex and impressive organ.
    It is.
    But it isn't the mind.
    Sure it is. Which is why brain damage can affect people's personality.
    How does general anaesthetic work?
    By disrupting the normal communication between nerves and the brain, inducing a state of controlled unconsciousness, thus demonstrating once again that consciousness comes from the brain.
    Why doesn't it come from the nerves?
    If you los a hand or a leg what happens in your theory?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,867
    TimS said:

    Other gorgeous beaches with castles:

    Tenby (again)
    Dartmouth castle beach - lovely little med-style cove
    Grouville
    Lindos
    Tintagel
    Aragonse castle, Ischia
    Tossa de mar
    Peniscola

    Next episode: monastic establishments by the seaside.

    Works for me.


  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,304
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Jay in Kyiv
    @JayinKyiv
    ·
    2h
    Holy shit, they didn't even send the real Putin.

    Some of us noticed this a couple of hours ago.

    That’s not the real Putin, that’s a body double, as Ukranian media has suggested would happen.
    This feels like tinfoil hat zone.
    Why would Russian secret service and special protection let the real Putin get into Trump's car with no one else but the driver and Trump's bodyguard?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,403
    Hey @BartholomewRoberts I'm going to bed.
    Neither of us can prove the other one wrong.
    Cheers.

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Was in the same class at school as Mrs. Jack Bauer's sister.

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Many parts of the brain including especially but not only the cerebral cortex and thalamus and more.

    The brain is a complex and impressive organ.
    It is.
    But it isn't the mind.
    Sure it is. Which is why brain damage can affect people's personality.
    How does general anaesthetic work?
    By disrupting the normal communication between nerves and the brain, inducing a state of controlled unconsciousness, thus demonstrating once again that consciousness comes from the brain.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,825
    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Lets hope that all those charged with belonging to Palestine Action choose to have a jury trial and are found not guilty. It's easy to forget posting here that the vast majority in the country aren't racists who follow Farage read the Telegraph and are happy to support genocide. There are about a quarter of the country who are neanderthals but as long as is stays like that we can all feel comfortable. Think about people you know not people who post crap online.

    I thought the Farage and Tory reaction to the jury verdict on Ricky Jones was odd, even though frankly I think it was the wrong verdict.

    They said it was an example of 2 tier justice, but it was a jury verdict. Members of the public. They seem to be condemning the jury for wrongthink.
    You thought it was odd because you're a lefty-liberal. Sorry to be blunt.
    You don’t get it.

    Read my post again. 2 political parties criticised a verdict that was reached by members of the public in a jury.

    They were criticising a jury. Not the government, not the judiciary. A jury. Magna Carta.

    Have you ever been called for jury service?
    Or do we have a new Magna Carta: no man should be imprisoned or punished except by the lawful judgment of his peers. Unless his peers are wrong and Nigel disagrees. In which case punish the fucker anyway.

    Because that’s what their 2-tier complaint today is implying.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,307
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Lets hope that all those charged with belonging to Palestine Action choose to have a jury trial and are found not guilty. It's easy to forget posting here that the vast majority in the country aren't racists who follow Farage read the Telegraph and are happy to support genocide. There are about a quarter of the country who are neanderthals but as long as is stays like that we can all feel comfortable. Think about people you know not people who post crap online.

    I thought the Farage and Tory reaction to the jury verdict on Ricky Jones was odd, even though frankly I think it was the wrong verdict.

    They said it was an example of 2 tier justice, but it was a jury verdict. Members of the public. They seem to be condemning the jury for wrongthink.
    You thought it was odd because you're a lefty-liberal. Sorry to be blunt.
    You don’t get it.

    Read my post again. 2 political parties criticised a verdict that was reached by members of the public in a jury.

    They were criticising a jury. Not the government, not the judiciary. A jury. Magna Carta.

    Have you ever been called for jury service?
    Or do we have a new Magna Carta: no man should be imprisoned or punished except by the lawful judgment of his peers. Unless his peers are wrong and Nigel disagrees. In which case punish the fucker anyway.

    Because that’s what their 2-tier complaint today is implying.
    We live in an increasingly polarised society where powerful political and sectarian views are rife and innate decency and a sense of right and wrong has weakened. That is going to lead to some odd jury decisions, like this one. I suspect the jury was minded to acquit on the basis of politics, sectarian views or both, and the judge's summing up probably gave them justification to do it.

    A review of how juries are selected seems called for.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,825
    edited August 15

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Lets hope that all those charged with belonging to Palestine Action choose to have a jury trial and are found not guilty. It's easy to forget posting here that the vast majority in the country aren't racists who follow Farage read the Telegraph and are happy to support genocide. There are about a quarter of the country who are neanderthals but as long as is stays like that we can all feel comfortable. Think about people you know not people who post crap online.

    I thought the Farage and Tory reaction to the jury verdict on Ricky Jones was odd, even though frankly I think it was the wrong verdict.

    They said it was an example of 2 tier justice, but it was a jury verdict. Members of the public. They seem to be condemning the jury for wrongthink.
    You thought it was odd because you're a lefty-liberal. Sorry to be blunt.
    You don’t get it.

    Read my post again. 2 political parties criticised a verdict that was reached by members of the public in a jury.

    They were criticising a jury. Not the government, not the judiciary. A jury. Magna Carta.

    Have you ever been called for jury service?
    Or do we have a new Magna Carta: no man should be imprisoned or punished except by the lawful judgment of his peers. Unless his peers are wrong and Nigel disagrees. In which case punish the fucker anyway.

    Because that’s what their 2-tier complaint today is implying.
    We live in an increasingly polarised society where powerful political and sectarian views are rife and innate decency and a sense of right and wrong has weakened. That is going to lead to some odd jury decisions, like this one. I suspect the jury was minded to acquit on the basis of politics, sectarian views or both, and the judge's summing up probably gave them justification to do it.

    A review of how juries are selected seems called for.
    I’m getting heartbreaking meme vibes:

    https://x.com/jacob_rees_mogg/status/1956379270445752482?s=46

    That innate decency and a sense of right and wrong has weakened is a very strong assertion and one that requires evidence.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,768
    The Russian Defence Minister says he’s in an excellent mood after the Trump Putin meeting !

    I fear the worst .

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,937
    Apparently Sergey Lavrov turned up wearing a jumper with USSR written on it.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,008
    Andy_JS said:

    Apparently Sergey Lavrov turned up wearing a jumper with USSR written on it.

    Hard to see how the war positively ends without Russia being seen to hold their heads high at home. Everyone needs to look through the egos and the optics and see what plays out
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,545
    Andy_JS said:

    Apparently Sergey Lavrov turned up wearing a jumper with USSR written on it.

    Russia's still occupying parts of Georgia after 17 years, and Moldova's Transnistria region for going on 35 years.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,349
    Ju
    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Lets hope that all those charged with belonging to Palestine Action choose to have a jury trial and are found not guilty. It's easy to forget posting here that the vast majority in the country aren't racists who follow Farage read the Telegraph and are happy to support genocide. There are about a quarter of the country who are neanderthals but as long as is stays like that we can all feel comfortable. Think about people you know not people who post crap online.

    I thought the Farage and Tory reaction to the jury verdict on Ricky Jones was odd, even though frankly I think it was the wrong verdict.

    They said it was an example of 2 tier justice, but it was a jury verdict. Members of the public. They seem to be condemning the jury for wrongthink.
    You thought it was odd because you're a lefty-liberal. Sorry to be blunt.
    You don’t get it.

    Read my post again. 2 political parties criticised a verdict that was reached by members of the public in a jury.

    They were criticising a jury. Not the government, not the judiciary. A jury. Magna Carta.

    Have you ever been called for jury service?
    Juries can deliver perverse verdicts, and very plainly, a perverse verdict was delivered in this case. Like Jeremy Thorpe or Ken Dodd.

    That does not mean that jury trials must be abolished.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,608
    algarkirk said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Was in the same class at school as Mrs. Jack Bauer's sister.

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    You're assuming the mind is made of molecules and atoms.
    It doesn't seem to be able to do without them, on every bit of evidence we have.
    Really?
    What specific group of cells forms the consciousness and where is it located?
    Many parts of the brain including especially but not only the cerebral cortex and thalamus and more.

    The brain is a complex and impressive organ.
    It is.
    But it isn't the mind.
    Mind is either identical with some matter - which seems impossible.
    Or mind is non material - which seems impossible.

    The relationship between mind and brain is much the same as software and hardware. The software cannot work without the hardware, and hardware damage can affect the software, but the software is not really locatable within the hardware.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,545
    Trump seems pissed off :lol:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,545
    No questions! So much for free speech :lol:
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,769
    So I take from that, that Putin has walked all over Trump. Hardly a surprise.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,867
    Andy_JS said:

    Apparently Sergey Lavrov turned up wearing a jumper with USSR written on it.

    A bit like turning up wearing a Manchester United shirt. Everyone is thinking you are a twat for supporting them but then a modicum of pity that you are still holding on to a long gone glorious past.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,506
    edited August 15

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Lets hope that all those charged with belonging to Palestine Action choose to have a jury trial and are found not guilty. It's easy to forget posting here that the vast majority in the country aren't racists who follow Farage read the Telegraph and are happy to support genocide. There are about a quarter of the country who are neanderthals but as long as is stays like that we can all feel comfortable. Think about people you know not people who post crap online.

    I thought the Farage and Tory reaction to the jury verdict on Ricky Jones was odd, even though frankly I think it was the wrong verdict.

    They said it was an example of 2 tier justice, but it was a jury verdict. Members of the public. They seem to be condemning the jury for wrongthink.
    You thought it was odd because you're a lefty-liberal. Sorry to be blunt.
    You don’t get it.

    Read my post again. 2 political parties criticised a verdict that was reached by members of the public in a jury.

    They were criticising a jury. Not the government, not the judiciary. A jury. Magna Carta.

    Have you ever been called for jury service?
    Or do we have a new Magna Carta: no man should be imprisoned or punished except by the lawful judgment of his peers. Unless his peers are wrong and Nigel disagrees. In which case punish the fucker anyway.

    Because that’s what their 2-tier complaint today is implying.
    We live in an increasingly polarised society where powerful political and sectarian views are rife and innate decency and a sense of right and wrong has weakened. That is going to lead to some odd jury decisions, like this one. I suspect the jury was minded to acquit on the basis of politics, sectarian views or both, and the judge's summing up probably gave them justification to do it.

    A review of how juries are selected seems called for.
    That might backfire on you. I doubt ethnic minorities and young people are over-represented on juries. Do you really want a Labour government-approved set of criteria and selection process?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,768
    So Putin repeating what we’ve heard many times before “ we need to eliminate the primary causes of the conflict “.

    This is going nowhere .
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,937

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Lets hope that all those charged with belonging to Palestine Action choose to have a jury trial and are found not guilty. It's easy to forget posting here that the vast majority in the country aren't racists who follow Farage read the Telegraph and are happy to support genocide. There are about a quarter of the country who are neanderthals but as long as is stays like that we can all feel comfortable. Think about people you know not people who post crap online.

    I thought the Farage and Tory reaction to the jury verdict on Ricky Jones was odd, even though frankly I think it was the wrong verdict.

    They said it was an example of 2 tier justice, but it was a jury verdict. Members of the public. They seem to be condemning the jury for wrongthink.
    You thought it was odd because you're a lefty-liberal. Sorry to be blunt.
    You don’t get it.

    Read my post again. 2 political parties criticised a verdict that was reached by members of the public in a jury.

    They were criticising a jury. Not the government, not the judiciary. A jury. Magna Carta.

    Have you ever been called for jury service?
    Or do we have a new Magna Carta: no man should be imprisoned or punished except by the lawful judgment of his peers. Unless his peers are wrong and Nigel disagrees. In which case punish the fucker anyway.

    Because that’s what their 2-tier complaint today is implying.
    We live in an increasingly polarised society where powerful political and sectarian views are rife and innate decency and a sense of right and wrong has weakened. That is going to lead to some odd jury decisions, like this one. I suspect the jury was minded to acquit on the basis of politics, sectarian views or both, and the judge's summing up probably gave them justification to do it.

    A review of how juries are selected seems called for.
    What did he say in his summing up? Haven't got round to reading it myself.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Apparently Sergey Lavrov turned up wearing a jumper with USSR written on it.

    His host will be sympathetic to that.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,937
    "Peter Stringfellow, a solicitor at Brett Wilson, told the PA news agency: “Both (Jones and Connolly) said pretty unpleasant things.However, I’m afraid the conflation of the two after that is a problem. It comes from people who’ve got some sort of political agenda, in my view. They were facing completely different allegations and a massive part of those different allegations is the racial element. If you look at the Connolly case … her intention is of a racial nature.”"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/peter-stringfellow-chris-philp-snaresbrook-crown-court-southport-james-cleverly-b2808559.html"
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,398
    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Lets hope that all those charged with belonging to Palestine Action choose to have a jury trial and are found not guilty. It's easy to forget posting here that the vast majority in the country aren't racists who follow Farage read the Telegraph and are happy to support genocide. There are about a quarter of the country who are neanderthals but as long as is stays like that we can all feel comfortable. Think about people you know not people who post crap online.

    I thought the Farage and Tory reaction to the jury verdict on Ricky Jones was odd, even though frankly I think it was the wrong verdict.

    They said it was an example of 2 tier justice, but it was a jury verdict. Members of the public. They seem to be condemning the jury for wrongthink.
    You thought it was odd because you're a lefty-liberal. Sorry to be blunt.
    You don’t get it.

    Read my post again. 2 political parties criticised a verdict that was reached by members of the public in a jury.

    They were criticising a jury. Not the government, not the judiciary. A jury. Magna Carta.

    Have you ever been called for jury service?
    Or do we have a new Magna Carta: no man should be imprisoned or punished except by the lawful judgment of his peers. Unless his peers are wrong and Nigel disagrees. In which case punish the fucker anyway.

    Because that’s what their 2-tier complaint today is implying.
    We live in an increasingly polarised society where powerful political and sectarian views are rife and innate decency and a sense of right and wrong has weakened. That is going to lead to some odd jury decisions, like this one. I suspect the jury was minded to acquit on the basis of politics, sectarian views or both, and the judge's summing up probably gave them justification to do it.

    A review of how juries are selected seems called for.
    That might backfire on you. I doubt ethnic minorities and young people are over-represented on juries. Do you really want a Labour government-approved set of criteria and selection process?
    Seems clear our right wing keyboard warriors haven't done jury service. It's Friday, they were probably on week 2, most of them have already lost £100s in wages and they've been arsed around enough already to know that if they don't call the clerk straight back in before lunch with a verdict then the Judge won't be available and it could be Tuesday by the time they're released. It's not a serious charge, so if they're split it's not guilty, they just want to be back in work on Monday
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,768
    What a sorry spectacle . Putin didn’t budge at all and the charade moves onto possibly Moscow for another photo op waste of time .

    Trump is happy to play along with the charade as Putin aims even more missiles at Ukraine . The gullible fools in the media who fell for Trumps angry , sanctions …. should give up the day job .

    Meanwhile the EU and UK play along and massage Trumps ego all the while knowing this is going nowhere. Trump will never do anything to really force Russia’s hand .

    It’s a truly depressing state of affairs .
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,574
    nico67 said:

    What a sorry spectacle . Putin didn’t budge at all and the charade moves onto possibly Moscow for another photo op waste of time .

    Trump is happy to play along with the charade as Putin aims even more missiles at Ukraine . The gullible fools in the media who fell for Trumps angry , sanctions …. should give up the day job .

    Meanwhile the EU and UK play along and massage Trumps ego all the while knowing this is going nowhere. Trump will never do anything to really force Russia’s hand .

    It’s a truly depressing state of affairs .

    It’s buying time for Europe to rearm.

    It sucks but it is what it is
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,937
    edited 1:04AM
    Are there any other Gang Of Four fans on PB? I was just listening to their 1983 funk album "Hard" which most of their fans can't stand, and which I think is the best thing they ever did.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,300
    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL, Trump has got the USAF lining up F22s to meet Putin.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1956416191678820441

    Difficult to deny he’s showing his strength to the enemy.

    I’ll deny it.
    He’s a raddled old twat showing his pectoral implants to another raddled old twat. In Bone Spurs’ head the USAF is him.
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    Sorry. I assumed your daughter was both you and your ex wife’s joint offspring. I should have read your post more closely. (Checks personal IQ and finds failures.)
    In fairness, it wasn't an unreasonable conclusion to jump to without a careful reading of the post and/or particularly detailed knowledge of Leon's back story.

    I cried unexpectedly too today. I was (because they asked) telling the girls the story of our miscarriage before our eldest was born, and suddenly all the rawness of it came back. All is fiine now of course, and if we hadn't lost that one we wouldn't have the ones we have now - but no way of knowing that at the time.

    Anyway, keeping it light, I've had a splendid day. Llandudno is wonderful. Like, I imagine, British seaside towns used to be - but somehow hasn't been killed off by cheap trips abroad like others have. And its setting is magical. The Great Orme derives its name from 'worm' in its ancient sense of wingless dragon, and I can completely see why.

    Completely agree on Llandudno, they have avoided the fate of many faded resorts like Colwyn Bay and Rhyl (especially Rhyl).
    It's a really interesting case study in what has gone right. It has the advantage over some resorts of setting, which is dramatic, but also the disadvantage that the main beach isn't actually that good.

    We also went to Conwy - not technically a seaside resort, but also a surprisingly pleasant little town and an interesting case study in what has gone right.

    Happy to report also that 20mph limits were nowhere near being the problems I had perceived - the only places I experienced them were places where 20 seemed an entirely reasonable speed to drive.
    I am on the Isle of Wight this week and there is almost an inverse relationship between how good the beach is and how nice the town. Sandown is probably the best beach, but really run down, while Bembridge is really posh, but a poor beach. There are other similar examples.

    It may well be that too much focus on a beach is part of the problem with British seaside resorts, it takes the focus off the town itself. It might be true of other countries too.
    I think you're onto something. Rhyl has a great sandy beach and the sewage outlet pipe goes a couple of miles out to sea now which wasn't the case when I were a child. But no matter how nice the beach is, it's still the Irish Sea.
    Nothing wrong with the Irish Sea.
    But yes, I think Foxy may be on to something. As well as Rhyl, I would add Blackpool and Newquay as towns with really good beaches but where the town itself leaves something to be desired.
    Cornwall doesn't generally follow this rule however

    St Ives, Falmouth, Padstow - all nice or very nice towns with gorgeous beaches

    Penzance, Hayle, Carbis Bay - grottier towns, also with gorgeous beaches

    Maybe Cornwall just has loads of great beaches
    Tenby: lovely town, lovely beach.
    Bamburgh: exceptional beach, very nice village and castle
    Margate and Weymouth: decent on both counts
    Poole: solid town (Bournemouth less so), great beaches
    Weston SM: shit town, shit beach

    But, other towns do fit the theory: Lyme Regis, Hastings, Whitstable, Swansea, Barry, Cromer etc.

    One theory could be that places with very good, large bathing beaches had sandy soil and little or no surface fresh water so didn’t get built up until quite late, during the Victorian beach boom. When resorts declined they didn’t have the pretty historical roots to fall back on.

    You see that with the Sussex and Kent coasts. Inland former coastal towns like Rye or Sandwich get all the nice architecture, while the coastal extensions are more often than not 60s bungalow strips.
    Bamburgh is not an exceptional beach.
    It's not even in the top 5 in Northumberland.
    Oh come off it.



    There are many beautiful beaches in Northumberland, but a beach with a castle on it is a thing of beauty.

    See also Porthluney cove in Cornwall, Manorbier bay in Pembrokeshire and 3 cliffs bay in Gower.

    In fact a large proportion of the best beaches in Europe are overlooked by a castle of some sort. My favourite: Cala de San Pedro in Cabo de Gata.
    Oh 6ou know the score by now. Someonecomes along and says I think something is great, whatever it is, the internet being what it is there’s always a contrarian to argue otherwise.

    The walk from Seahouses to Bambrugh is glorious.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,968
    Didn't think there was going to be a deal agreed here, Russia's offensive is still going well; he won't want to freeze the lines just yet.

    As for British beaches ?

    Barafundle bay, Puttsborough/Wollacombe, Bamburgh best I've visited in recent years.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,023
    nico67 said:

    What a sorry spectacle . Putin didn’t budge at all and the charade moves onto possibly Moscow for another photo op waste of time .

    Trump is happy to play along with the charade as Putin aims even more missiles at Ukraine . The gullible fools in the media who fell for Trumps angry , sanctions …. should give up the day job .

    Meanwhile the EU and UK play along and massage Trumps ego all the while knowing this is going nowhere. Trump will never do anything to really force Russia’s hand .

    It’s a truly depressing state of affairs .

    Putin can't budge because anything less than total victory and he's in real trouble given the number of Russian dead.

    Ukraine is in hell, but thinks surrendering is worse than continuing to fight, and in this they are surely correct.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,023
    Pulpstar said:

    Didn't think there was going to be a deal agreed here, Russia's offensive is still going well; he won't want to freeze the lines just yet.

    As for British beaches ?

    Barafundle bay, Puttsborough/Wollacombe, Bamburgh best I've visited in recent years.

    Russia - which has had a great couple of weeks - has had a rather bad couple of days I thought, giving up a lot of the territory they'd grabbed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,023
    Andy_JS said:

    "Peter Stringfellow, a solicitor at Brett Wilson, told the PA news agency: “Both (Jones and Connolly) said pretty unpleasant things.However, I’m afraid the conflation of the two after that is a problem. It comes from people who’ve got some sort of political agenda, in my view. They were facing completely different allegations and a massive part of those different allegations is the racial element. If you look at the Connolly case … her intention is of a racial nature.”"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/peter-stringfellow-chris-philp-snaresbrook-crown-court-southport-james-cleverly-b2808559.html"

    Errr, surely the major difference is this:

    (1) Jones went to jury trial and the was found not guilty.
    (2) Connolly chose to plead guilty, and was sentenced to prison.

    Now, I think the sentence for Connolly was grossly disproportionate to her acts. I would probably have gone for Community Service, or (at most) eight weeks at Her Majesty's Pleasure. On the other hand, I don't think she's any kind of laudable character (and nor is Jones), she just made the mistake of pleading guilty when there was a pretty good chance she would have been acquitted (or that the jury would have been hung). And I don't see how her sentence could realistically have been any worse.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,491
    Andy_JS said:

    Apparently Sergey Lavrov turned up wearing a jumper with USSR written on it.

    The obnoxious Sergey Lavrov turning up in that sweatshirt was just about the most undiplomatic two fingers salute to the West before Putin even arrived. Hopefully someone explained the message it conveyed to Trump...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,551
    What DementiaDon got from fellating Putin

    @atrupar.com‬

    Trump: "Vladimir Putin said something- one of the most interesting things. He said 'your election was rigged because you have mail in voting. It's impossible to have mail in voting & have honest elections.' He said that to me because we talked about 2020. He said, 'you won that election by so much'"

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lwi7qr3ax52r
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,219
    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Apparently Sergey Lavrov turned up wearing a jumper with USSR written on it.

    A bit like turning up wearing a Manchester United shirt. Everyone is thinking you are a twat for supporting them but then a modicum of pity that you are still holding on to a long gone glorious past.
    It's a lot more like a German foreign minister turning up with a swastika on his chest.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,355
    Sandpit said:

    That’s not the real Putin, that’s a body double.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/1956445391127486614

    Putin trolling again.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,219
    Scott_xP said:

    What DementiaDon got from fellating Putin

    @atrupar.com‬

    Trump: "Vladimir Putin said something- one of the most interesting things. He said 'your election was rigged because you have mail in voting. It's impossible to have mail in voting & have honest elections.' He said that to me because we talked about 2020. He said, 'you won that election by so much'"

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lwi7qr3ax52r

    Putin knows how to play his ego, and his obsessions, then.

    The only half good thing about the meeting is that it might have turned out worse than it did.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,219
    edited 5:00AM
    Anyway, so much for the latest expired deadline, and its* non-consequences.

    *autocorrect inserted an apostrophe there, before I then removed it.
    Why does it still do that ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,219
    Trump Net-Approval In:

    🟢 Alaska: +11%
    🟢 Texas: +9%
    🟢 Georgia: +4%
    🟢 Nevada: +2%
    🟢 North Carolina: +1%
    🟢 Arizona: +1%

    🟡 Pennsylvania: Even

    🔴 Michigan: -1%
    🔴 Iowa: -1%
    🔴 Wisconsin: -5%
    🔴 New Hampshire: -13%
    🔴 Maine: -14%

    Morning Consult / July 2025

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1956482192554521022
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