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These are the lowest leader approval ratings I have ever seen. Surely they can't go on?

SystemSystem Posts: 12,598
edited July 29 in General
These are the lowest leader approval ratings I have ever seen. These are the lowest leader approval ratings I have ever seen. Surely they can't go on? – politicalbetting.com

By all accounts some cursory research suggests this not at all undeserved. But it’s so low it’s a a statistical singularity. More on the lizardman https://t.co/sEDbALOZgm

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,575
    first
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,020

    Looking at the last thread, HYUFD seems have gone full Stasi...the government will monitor who downloads VPNs. Crickey.

    The fact we even having any discussion that VPNs could be restricted in a Western liberal democracy is bonkers to me.

    I found it really funny, first of all it shows a huge misunderstanding of VPNs and secondly GCHQ doesn't have the ability to monitor every VPN downloaded.

    Imagine the scenes at GCHQ, we can either monitor those Russian spies in Salisbury or we can monitor Ben Smith, aged 14, in Reading downloading a VPN so he can watch some porn.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,189
    Sandpit said:

    Whoever would have thought that trying to restrict content would lead to every 14-year-old boy suddenly becoming an expert in VPNs and proxy servers?

    Apart from anyone who’s ever worked in IT.

    And anyone who’s ever known a 14-year-old boy.

    When I was a kid getting cracked computer games was all the rage and this is before the internet was widespread and all basically dial-up....determined teenage boys still found a way to have a copy of the latest big game in days after release.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,001
    On-topic: what?

    Off-topic & FPT:-

    The lyricist Alan Bergman has died. He co-wrote The Windmills of Your Mind. Since this is pb, here is that song reworked as a satire on Boris Johnson:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_gojozdxok
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,189
    edited July 29
    eek said:

    The problem is everything I use has a VPN. Any company of any size uses VPNs to restrict who can access systems on their networks.

    In this day and age, any business or organisation that doesn't enforce their use them to enable offsite access to log in, their IT admins need the sack. Same as 2FA.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,287

    Looking at the last thread, HYUFD seems have gone full Stasi...the government will monitor who downloads VPNs. Crickey.

    The fact we even having any discussion that VPNs could be restricted in a Western liberal democracy is bonkers to me.

    I found it really funny, first of all it shows a huge misunderstanding of VPNs and secondly GCHQ doesn't have the ability to monitor every VPN downloaded.

    Imagine the scenes at GCHQ, we can either monitor those Russian spies in Salisbury or we can monitor Ben Smith, aged 14, in Reading downloading a VPN so he can watch some porn.
    I wouldn't be surprised if some on the conservative right would see the second of those as a better use of finite resources.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,189
    edited July 29

    Looking at the last thread, HYUFD seems have gone full Stasi...the government will monitor who downloads VPNs. Crickey.

    The fact we even having any discussion that VPNs could be restricted in a Western liberal democracy is bonkers to me.

    I found it really funny, first of all it shows a huge misunderstanding of VPNs and secondly GCHQ doesn't have the ability to monitor every VPN downloaded.

    Imagine the scenes at GCHQ, we can either monitor those Russian spies in Salisbury or we can monitor Ben Smith, aged 14, in Reading downloading a VPN so he can watch some porn.
    I wouldn't be surprised if some on the conservative right would see the second of those as a better use of finite resources.
    Not just right, the likes of Corbyn certainly wouldn't see the need for the former. As we can solve it all by sending all our evidence to the Russians for them to assess and then invite Vlad around for a nice cup of tea.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,189
    edited July 29
    Remember the Magic Grandpa wanted the state owned ISP to give free internet to everybody and bust all the private companies.

    As I and a quite a few other pointed out at the time, not only is there loads of competition for ISPS (it could be better in terms of fibre, although Starlink is now an option), but that would put into the hands of the state your connection to the internet......

    Somebody like President HYUFD would be cutting households left, right and centre for VPN usage or if little Johnny got on the interwebs and saw some boobies.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,020

    eek said:

    The problem is everything I use has a VPN. Any company of any size uses VPNs to restrict who can access systems on their networks.

    In this day and age, any business or organisation that doesn't enforce their use them to enable offsite access to log in, their IT admins need the sack. Same as 2FA.
    As we've seen with The Co-op, M&S, and Knights of Old, some companies really have poor IT staff/don't have a grasp of what they need.

    About twenty years ago I had a client whose idea of IT security was buying new laptops/desktops every 18 months.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,908
    Hyufd wasn’t so against VPNs when Bowwwis was running his Government on Whatsapp. Which as a concept isn’t that dissimilar.

    As was said when the Tories originally tried to instigate it, the Online Safety Act is largely performative, and may well have the opposite effect to the one intended.

  • TimGeoTimGeo Posts: 29
    Slightly different subject the was an earlier thread on the last post stating her current Government's had reformed NI to favour Small Business ( Over Larger Business's) At the Autumn statement Reeves had increased the Employment Allowance from £5,000 to £10,000 however many small Businesses have lots of lower paid employees ( Cafe's and Hair Dressers) who were bought into NI as the threshold went down to £5,000. As an employer my concern is that Reeves will reduce the Employment Allowance in subsequent budgets as reducing the employers allowance is a detail and is unlikely to pick up much traction in addition fiscal drag will impact its value if it is not rerated and that's even before nay suggestion of applying NI to Pension Contributions)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,020
    edited July 29
    This is the Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology

    Peter Kyle: “If Jimmy Savile were alive today he’d be perpetrating his crimes online, and Nigel Farage is saying he’s on their side”

    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1950086188649365825
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,189
    edited July 29

    eek said:

    The problem is everything I use has a VPN. Any company of any size uses VPNs to restrict who can access systems on their networks.

    In this day and age, any business or organisation that doesn't enforce their use them to enable offsite access to log in, their IT admins need the sack. Same as 2FA.
    As we've seen with The Co-op, M&S, and Knights of Old, some companies really have poor IT staff/don't have a grasp of what they need.

    About twenty years ago I had a client whose idea of IT security was buying new laptops/desktops every 18 months.
    About five years ago I had a prime minister whose idea of IT security was hosting a remote Cabinet meeting on a Chinese service and tweeting the Zoom meeting ID to the world along with the private email addresses of several ministers.
    I find the incredibly relaxed standards that many Western politicians operate technology mind blowing. Having same device for government and personal business that clearly aren't locked down.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512

    Looking at the last thread, HYUFD seems have gone full Stasi...the government will get somebody like GCHQ* to monitor who downloads VPNs. Crickey.

    * I mean GCHQ aren't busy at the moment....nothing going on in the world that slightly more important.

    The fact we even having any discussion that VPNs could be restricted in a Western liberal democracy is bonkers to me. It is actually why the likes of Proton with their VPN / Email etc is so important.

    Growing up in Gloucestershire, I knew several people who worked at GCHQ.

    With one exception, they all had in common that they didn't understand the first thing about actually running computers. They were experts in coding and data analysis, not technology. They used them but if they broke they had to get somebody else to fix it.

    It may have changed - very probably has - but that doesn't inspire confidence that they would be any good at monitoring and understanding VPNs.

    I mean, despite Hyufd's claims, even the Chinese government can't do that (can't even begin to do that) and they spend enormous amounts of time and money on it. Even North Korea found it near impossible which is why they set up a completely sealed intranet.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512

    This is the Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology

    Peter Kyle: “If Jimmy Savile were alive today he’d be perpetrating his crimes online, and Nigel Farage is saying he’s on their side”

    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1950086188649365825

    A very stupid point, because actually Jimmy Savile was very careful not to have any sort of computer. He said he didn't want people to think he was accessing child pornography, which is possibly the most remarkably revealing denial I have ever heard.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,189
    edited July 29
    ydoethur said:

    Looking at the last thread, HYUFD seems have gone full Stasi...the government will get somebody like GCHQ* to monitor who downloads VPNs. Crickey.

    * I mean GCHQ aren't busy at the moment....nothing going on in the world that slightly more important.

    The fact we even having any discussion that VPNs could be restricted in a Western liberal democracy is bonkers to me. It is actually why the likes of Proton with their VPN / Email etc is so important.

    Growing up in Gloucestershire, I knew several people who worked at GCHQ.

    With one exception, they all had in common that they didn't understand the first thing about actually running computers. They were experts in coding and data analysis, not technology. They used them but if they broke they had to get somebody else to fix it.

    It may have changed - very probably has - but that doesn't inspire confidence that they would be any good at monitoring and understanding VPNs.

    I mean, despite Hyufd's claims, even the Chinese government can't do that (can't even begin to do that) and they spend enormous amounts of time and money on it. Even North Korea found it near impossible which is why they set up a completely sealed intranet.
    Actually if I remember correctly one of the smaller revelations from Snowdon was that GCHQ had a zero day into OpenVPN protocol that had been used effectively.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512

    eek said:

    The problem is everything I use has a VPN. Any company of any size uses VPNs to restrict who can access systems on their networks.

    In this day and age, any business or organisation that doesn't enforce their use them to enable offsite access to log in, their IT admins need the sack. Same as 2FA.
    As we've seen with The Co-op, M&S, and Knights of Old, some companies really have poor IT staff/don't have a grasp of what they need.

    About twenty years ago I had a client whose idea of IT security was buying new laptops/desktops every 18 months.
    About five years ago I had a prime minister whose idea of IT security was hosting a remote Cabinet meeting on a Chinese service and tweeting the Zoom meeting ID to the world along with the private email addresses of several ministers.
    I find the incredibly relaxed standards that many Western politicians operate technology mind blowing. Having same device for government and personal business that clearly aren't locked down.
    Didn't Massive's phone get hacked and infected by the Chinese and have to be sealed in a lead lined bunker?

    Then when they needed to get his WhatsApp messages back he'd forgotten the PIN for it.

    Clown show all around.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,967

    Remember the Magic Grandpa wanted the state owned ISP to give free internet to everybody and bust all the private companies.

    As I and a quite a few other pointed out at the time, not only is there loads of competition for ISPS (it could be better in terms of fibre, although Starlink is now an option), but that would put into the hands of the state your connection to the internet......

    Somebody like President HYUFD would be cutting households left, right and centre for VPN usage or if little Johnny got on the interwebs and saw some boobies.

    Won’t somebody just think of the children !!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,189
    edited July 29

    This is the Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology

    Peter Kyle: “If Jimmy Savile were alive today he’d be perpetrating his crimes online, and Nigel Farage is saying he’s on their side”

    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1950086188649365825

    Will somebody think of the kids defence....how does OSA stop paedos on Roblox or sliding into their DMs?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512

    eek said:

    The problem is everything I use has a VPN. Any company of any size uses VPNs to restrict who can access systems on their networks.

    In this day and age, any business or organisation that doesn't enforce their use them to enable offsite access to log in, their IT admins need the sack. Same as 2FA.
    As we've seen with The Co-op, M&S, and Knights of Old, some companies really have poor IT staff/don't have a grasp of what they need.

    About twenty years ago I had a client whose idea of IT security was buying new laptops/desktops every 18 months.
    Apple user, was he?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    I've heard that, sometimes, kids get hurt by cars.

    The sooner we ban these vile child-slaying Machines of Death the better.

    Anyone who disagrees thinks Anakin Skywalker should be in charge of every nursery in the country.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,020
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    The problem is everything I use has a VPN. Any company of any size uses VPNs to restrict who can access systems on their networks.

    In this day and age, any business or organisation that doesn't enforce their use them to enable offsite access to log in, their IT admins need the sack. Same as 2FA.
    As we've seen with The Co-op, M&S, and Knights of Old, some companies really have poor IT staff/don't have a grasp of what they need.

    About twenty years ago I had a client whose idea of IT security was buying new laptops/desktops every 18 months.
    Apple user, was he?
    Windows man.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,189
    edited July 29
    We are governed by donkeys re###ds, especially anything technological.

    I reckon rather than the price of milk gotcha, politicians should be asked to describe the attention mechanism in transformers or the difference between DDIM vs DDPM in Diffusion models.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,495
    ydoethur said:

    This is the Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology

    Peter Kyle: “If Jimmy Savile were alive today he’d be perpetrating his crimes online, and Nigel Farage is saying he’s on their side”

    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1950086188649365825

    A very stupid point, because actually Jimmy Savile was very careful not to have any sort of computer. He said he didn't want people to think he was accessing child pornography, which is possibly the most remarkably revealing denial I have ever heard.
    If a connection could be found between Savile and Epstein the internet would blow its tiny mind.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,262

    Hyufd wasn’t so against VPNs when Bowwwis was running his Government on Whatsapp. Which as a concept isn’t that dissimilar.

    As was said when the Tories originally tried to instigate it, the Online Safety Act is largely performative, and may well have the opposite effect to the one intended.

    Have you not noticed a lot of legislation is performative and has some serious side effects. The 2 child limit for example has demographic effects. Even the ECHR has effects in that it is being used for economic migrants as well as genuine asylum seekers. So the problems of one government becomes the crisis of another.

    I'll state my usual bias - more babies / less politicians.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    The problem is everything I use has a VPN. Any company of any size uses VPNs to restrict who can access systems on their networks.

    In this day and age, any business or organisation that doesn't enforce their use them to enable offsite access to log in, their IT admins need the sack. Same as 2FA.
    As we've seen with The Co-op, M&S, and Knights of Old, some companies really have poor IT staff/don't have a grasp of what they need.

    About twenty years ago I had a client whose idea of IT security was buying new laptops/desktops every 18 months.
    Apple user, was he?
    Windows man.
    Putin fan then.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    edited July 29
    Battlebus said:

    Hyufd wasn’t so against VPNs when Bowwwis was running his Government on Whatsapp. Which as a concept isn’t that dissimilar.

    As was said when the Tories originally tried to instigate it, the Online Safety Act is largely performative, and may well have the opposite effect to the one intended.

    Have you not noticed a lot of legislation is performative and has some serious side effects. The 2 child limit for example has demographic effects. Even the ECHR has effects in that it is being used for economic migrants as well as genuine asylum seekers. So the problems of one government becomes the crisis of another.

    I'll state my usual bias - more babies / less politicians.
    Perhaps we could combine the two and have babies as politicians?

    Well, let's face it, most of them are smarter than Lee Anderson, Margaret Ferrier and Zarah Sultana.

    (Edited to correct the name.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,665

    Looking at the last thread, HYUFD seems have gone full Stasi...the government will monitor who downloads VPNs. Crickey.

    The fact we even having any discussion that VPNs could be restricted in a Western liberal democracy is bonkers to me.

    I found it really funny, first of all it shows a huge misunderstanding of VPNs and secondly GCHQ doesn't have the ability to monitor every VPN downloaded.

    Imagine the scenes at GCHQ, we can either monitor those Russian spies in Salisbury or we can monitor Ben Smith, aged 14, in Reading downloading a VPN so he can watch some porn.
    50/50, then ?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,956
    Battlebus said:

    Hyufd wasn’t so against VPNs when Bowwwis was running his Government on Whatsapp. Which as a concept isn’t that dissimilar.

    As was said when the Tories originally tried to instigate it, the Online Safety Act is largely performative, and may well have the opposite effect to the one intended.

    Have you not noticed a lot of legislation is performative and has some serious side effects. The 2 child limit for example has demographic effects. Even the ECHR has effects in that it is being used for economic migrants as well as genuine asylum seekers. So the problems of one government becomes the crisis of another.

    I'll state my usual bias - more babies / less politicians.
    More babies has a side effect of more politicians as they grow up.....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,020
    edited July 29

    ydoethur said:

    This is the Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology

    Peter Kyle: “If Jimmy Savile were alive today he’d be perpetrating his crimes online, and Nigel Farage is saying he’s on their side”

    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1950086188649365825

    A very stupid point, because actually Jimmy Savile was very careful not to have any sort of computer. He said he didn't want people to think he was accessing child pornography, which is possibly the most remarkably revealing denial I have ever heard.
    If a connection could be found between Savile and Epstein the internet would blow its tiny mind.
    I did read once that Trump and Savile were in the same building in the 1990s.

    Around the time Trump did the League Cup draw live on Saint & Greavsie live from Trump tower.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzO8SKEC-no

    But I suspect it is in the same providence as Osama bin Laden being an Arsenal fan.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,658
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    The problem is everything I use has a VPN. Any company of any size uses VPNs to restrict who can access systems on their networks.

    In this day and age, any business or organisation that doesn't enforce their use them to enable offsite access to log in, their IT admins need the sack. Same as 2FA.
    As we've seen with The Co-op, M&S, and Knights of Old, some companies really have poor IT staff/don't have a grasp of what they need.

    About twenty years ago I had a client whose idea of IT security was buying new laptops/desktops every 18 months.
    Apple user, was he?
    Windows man.
    Putin fan then.
    Oh I don't know.

    The Apple Enclosure is most like East Germany.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,525
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, it's remarkable just how unpopular pretty much every government in the world is at the moment. OK, this one's impressively bad but all of them are struggling, even the hard right and far left.

    We're still seeing unwind from the Great Financial Crash, coupled to the damage from Covid, and with Putin's Massive Ego Trip, er, Special Military Operation thrown in. It's still causing massive economic hardship and it's rather difficult to see any meaningful way out of it.

    It does make it to some degree understandable that many will roll the dice on those who offer simple solutions or the blaming of others, but unfortunately their inadequacy tends to make things worse (Syriza's fiasco in Greece springs to mind).

    Yet as the need for governments prepared to take some serious, hard, long-term decisions grows, voters increasingly look to parties wanting to focus on frivolous, easy and short-term ones.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,287

    I've heard that, sometimes, kids get hurt by cars.

    The sooner we ban these vile child-slaying Machines of Death the better.

    Anyone who disagrees thinks Anakin Skywalker should be in charge of every nursery in the country.

    Though we do regulate and restrict the use of cars quite a lot.

    Whatever is wrong with the OSA, saying " we just have to live with this" doesn't entirely wash, either. A fence doesn't have to be perfect to be useful.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,665

    I've heard that, sometimes, kids get hurt by cars.

    The sooner we ban these vile child-slaying Machines of Death the better.

    Anyone who disagrees thinks Anakin Skywalker should be in charge of every nursery in the country.

    Though we do regulate and restrict the use of cars quite a lot.

    Whatever is wrong with the OSA, saying " we just have to live with this" doesn't entirely wash, either. A fence doesn't have to be perfect to be useful.
    Except the comparison would be still having in place the legislation that required a man waving a red flag to walk in from of every automobile.

    Fences don't have to be perfect - but equally they should not impede half the population in the normal course of their lives.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512

    I've heard that, sometimes, kids get hurt by cars.

    The sooner we ban these vile child-slaying Machines of Death the better.

    Anyone who disagrees thinks Anakin Skywalker should be in charge of every nursery in the country.

    Though we do regulate and restrict the use of cars quite a lot.

    Whatever is wrong with the OSA, saying " we just have to live with this" doesn't entirely wash, either. A fence doesn't have to be perfect to be useful.
    There is a risk though that with silly laws that are unenforceable it brings the law into disrepute.

    And that isn't a great thing.

    THere have been some strange laws in the past. The Profane Oaths Act of 1745 springs to mind (not actually repealed until 1967, but routinely ignored). Or the law that all newspapers must be printed on specific paper.

    But do we really want to give teenagers the idea that all laws are made by idiots and are completely impossible to enforce? We're having enough trouble with that already (see e-bikes).

    There are numerous other ways this could have been achieved in a much less draconian and much more effective way. Enhanced parental controls might be one. Notification to ISPs of people under 18 at an given address might be another.

    It's a sledgehammer to try and crush a large nut, but unfortunately the ground underneath is very soft so the nut just gets pushed into it and becomes harder to break.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,658
    edited July 29

    ydoethur said:

    Looking at the last thread, HYUFD seems have gone full Stasi...the government will get somebody like GCHQ* to monitor who downloads VPNs. Crickey.

    * I mean GCHQ aren't busy at the moment....nothing going on in the world that slightly more important.

    The fact we even having any discussion that VPNs could be restricted in a Western liberal democracy is bonkers to me. It is actually why the likes of Proton with their VPN / Email etc is so important.

    Growing up in Gloucestershire, I knew several people who worked at GCHQ.

    With one exception, they all had in common that they didn't understand the first thing about actually running computers. They were experts in coding and data analysis, not technology. They used them but if they broke they had to get somebody else to fix it.

    It may have changed - very probably has - but that doesn't inspire confidence that they would be any good at monitoring and understanding VPNs.

    I mean, despite Hyufd's claims, even the Chinese government can't do that (can't even begin to do that) and they spend enormous amounts of time and money on it. Even North Korea found it near impossible which is why they set up a completely sealed intranet.
    Actually if I remember correctly one of the smaller revelations from Snowdon was that GCHQ had a zero day into OpenVPN protocol that had been used effectively.
    There was a segment on a recent The Rest is Politics about that - Rory talking relatively candidly from his experience as minister on the basis that most of it had been leaked since.

    Essentially, his account is that GCHQ / Five-Eyes had a way to squirrel in and became complacent.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,495

    ydoethur said:

    This is the Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology

    Peter Kyle: “If Jimmy Savile were alive today he’d be perpetrating his crimes online, and Nigel Farage is saying he’s on their side”

    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1950086188649365825

    A very stupid point, because actually Jimmy Savile was very careful not to have any sort of computer. He said he didn't want people to think he was accessing child pornography, which is possibly the most remarkably revealing denial I have ever heard.
    If a connection could be found between Savile and Epstein the internet would blow its tiny mind.
    I did read once that Trump and Savile were in the same building in the 1990s.

    Around the time Trump did the League Cup draw live on Saint & Greavsie live from Trump tower.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzO8SKEC-no

    But I suspect it is in the same providence as Osama bin Laden being an Arsenal fan.
    Quite the coincidence that the Royal family ended up being pals with the two foremost pervy pedos of the age, though I daresay Charles never stayed at Jimmy’s Roundhay flat.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,665
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,658

    I've heard that, sometimes, kids get hurt by cars.

    The sooner we ban these vile child-slaying Machines of Death the better.

    Anyone who disagrees thinks Anakin Skywalker should be in charge of every nursery in the country.

    That's an interesting intervention.

    No - it's about appropriate regulation, and in one (amongst other) particulars making our road network fail-safe not fail-dangerous. And that is both the environment, and the operators of the machines.

    A key measure is to institutionalise alternatives as practical options (ie can walk without being forced out into the traffic).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232

    I've heard that, sometimes, kids get hurt by cars.

    The sooner we ban these vile child-slaying Machines of Death the better.

    Anyone who disagrees thinks Anakin Skywalker should be in charge of every nursery in the country.

    Though we do regulate and restrict the use of cars quite a lot.

    Whatever is wrong with the OSA, saying " we just have to live with this" doesn't entirely wash, either. A fence doesn't have to be perfect to be useful.
    The expressed desire for a fence doesn't make the fence useful though. And if it caused massive disruption usefulness it might have might not be worth it.

    Sadly i think everyone will get bored andcin a year no-one will talk about it anymore ecen though it doesn't work.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,658
    My trivia question for the day:

    Who designs the rolling "healthy life" rolling displays in GP surgery waiting areas?

    (I asked my surgery and the chap said it came from outside somewhere; they did not do it there.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, it's remarkable just how unpopular pretty much every government in the world is at the moment. OK, this one's impressively bad but all of them are struggling, even the hard right and far left.

    We're still seeing unwind from the Great Financial Crash, coupled to the damage from Covid, and with Putin's Massive Ego Trip, er, Special Military Operation thrown in. It's still causing massive economic hardship and it's rather difficult to see any meaningful way out of it.

    It does make it to some degree understandable that many will roll the dice on those who offer simple solutions or the blaming of others, but unfortunately their inadequacy tends to make things worse (Syriza's fiasco in Greece springs to mind).

    Yet as the need for governments prepared to take some serious, hard, long-term decisions grows, voters increasingly look to parties wanting to focus on frivolous, easy and short-term ones.
    Yes to a point, but not for the first time I think the British talent for hair shirts and guilt tripping is self defeating.

    A lot of the things we need to return to proper economic growth and better public finances can be fun.

    What’s our main problem? Companies and consumers aren’t spending enough money. They’re sitting on assets, sweating them like Dickensian misers, and forcing government to take up the slack. This despite wage inflation having run ahead of overall inflation for about 3 years now.

    Yet ask many in this country and they seem convinced the route back to the good times is pay restraint, spending cuts, tax hikes, “hard decisions” and general misery.

    And the trouble is even those simple solution politicians, Farage and Corbyn and others (Greens, notably), are at it too. Negativity, country’s broken, policy based on identifying the enemy and promising to make their lives more miserable, whether immigrants, bankers or “zionists”.

    It’s just as bad in France. Everyone has such a downer on everything.
    I used to think it was overdone but it has gotten to me. Everything is just low grade crappy and we don't seem able to do anything without delay and pain, it wears you down.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,389
    ydoethur said:

    Growing up in Gloucestershire, I knew several people who worked at GCHQ.

    With one exception, they all had in common that they didn't understand the first thing about actually running computers. They were experts in coding and data analysis, not technology. They used them but if they broke they had to get somebody else to fix it.

    They produced a document for implementing 'secure' wireless access (up to RESTRICTED) for Government departments using commercial products

    While it was theoretically secure, it demanded using 2 incompatible protocols at the same time

    It was deprecated after we pointed this out

    New protocols mean it could actually be deployed today, but the protective marking scheme has changed
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,270
    Good morning

    For various reasons I haven't posted much these last 2 days but have scanned the thread, and with the greatest respect @HYUFD hasn't a clue on the subject of the use of the Internet by children

    Our son is head of IT at a local school, and has three children, so knows more than many on both the use in schools of smartphones and of course in his family

    He has installed controls on the time his children can spend on line, but even with restrictions his children still beg borrow and steal online time

    Of course in school peer pressure and knowledge expands the sites his children [11 and 13] access and our son is in favour of a ban on smartphone use in school with no exceptions

    I watched Peter Kyle this morning allegation about Farage and Saville, and as much as I am not a Farage fan what a ridiculous thing for Kyle to say when the OSA needs genuine and serious discussion

    I did wonder about children using VPN, because unless they are already in use they could not upload the software without payment

    I also am not sure what happens if a child uses their parents e mail address to verify their age. Does the site confirm the verification back to the e mail address or is it just taken as the verification

    We are living in extraordinary times but @HYUFD is in for an eye watering experience in due course if he has his own children and I think Kyle may well have to retract his allegation
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,687
    edited July 29
    ydoethur said:

    I've heard that, sometimes, kids get hurt by cars.

    The sooner we ban these vile child-slaying Machines of Death the better.

    Anyone who disagrees thinks Anakin Skywalker should be in charge of every nursery in the country.

    Though we do regulate and restrict the use of cars quite a lot.

    Whatever is wrong with the OSA, saying " we just have to live with this" doesn't entirely wash, either. A fence doesn't have to be perfect to be useful.
    There is a risk though that with silly laws that are unenforceable it brings the law into disrepute.

    And that isn't a great thing.

    THere have been some strange laws in the past. The Profane Oaths Act of 1745 springs to mind (not actually repealed until 1967, but routinely ignored). Or the law that all newspapers must be printed on specific paper.

    But do we really want to give teenagers the idea that all laws are made by idiots and are completely impossible to enforce? We're having enough trouble with that already (see e-bikes).

    There are numerous other ways this could have been achieved in a much less draconian and much more effective way. Enhanced parental controls might be one. Notification to ISPs of people under 18 at an given address might be another.

    It's a sledgehammer to try and crush a large nut, but unfortunately the ground underneath is very soft so the nut just gets pushed into it and becomes harder to break.
    Wasn't the newspaper law that the paper be taxed specifically to help increase the cost of the final newspaper? Together with the tax on the newspaper itself once printed (albeit mitigated by "free" postage by RM), that had the entirely rational justification (for the ruling class) of keeping the poor dumb, ignorant, and if not happy then at least less likely to riot/rebel, [edit] by making newspapers too expensive for easy access. I had a look once and 1850s newspapers were costing something like a fiver each in modern terms (very, very roughly, and dependign obviously on social class for one's comparator).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,532

    Before I clicked on expanding the full header, I thought this was for Sir Keir Starmer.

    Nah. This is TSE - was going to be Kemi.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,658
    edited July 29
    MattW said:

    I've heard that, sometimes, kids get hurt by cars.

    The sooner we ban these vile child-slaying Machines of Death the better.

    Anyone who disagrees thinks Anakin Skywalker should be in charge of every nursery in the country.

    That's an interesting intervention.

    No - it's about appropriate regulation, and in one (amongst other) particulars making our road network fail-safe not fail-dangerous. And that is both the environment, and the operators of the machines.

    A key measure is to institutionalise alternatives as practical options (ie can walk without being forced out into the traffic).
    Bonus as the timer ran out:

    If you want a good example, I can point you to a fairly recent incident where a car followed another car into one of our dangerous "maximum throughput and speed" 40-50mph traffic islands, where a block of small trees had since been grown on the verge (no joined up thinking), so the sight line into the first exit was obscured.

    So when the guy came round the corner, and could not stop, he said "I was forced to go up the pavement; I had no choice", where he killed someone on the pavement.

    Of course the stupid fuck had lots of choices.

    He had the choice to drive at a safe distance behind the car in front, at a safe speed for the distance he could see, to hit the car in front rather than careen up the pavement. IIRC he was still over the stupidly high DD limit from the night before, so he had the choice not to get pissed-out-of-his-brain when he knew he would be driving the next morning.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,665


    @Sunil_Prasannan you will be pleased to know there is a documentary on R4 at 4 today about Depeche Mode. I just heard a trailer for it on this morning’s special three hour special of Woman’s Hour.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,001

    Good morning

    For various reasons I haven't posted much these last 2 days but have scanned the thread, and with the greatest respect @HYUFD hasn't a clue on the subject of the use of the Internet by children

    Our son is head of IT at a local school, and has three children, so knows more than many on both the use in schools of smartphones and of course in his family

    He has installed controls on the time his children can spend on line, but even with restrictions his children still beg borrow and steal online time

    Of course in school peer pressure and knowledge expands the sites his children [11 and 13] access and our son is in favour of a ban on smartphone use in school with no exceptions

    I watched Peter Kyle this morning allegation about Farage and Saville, and as much as I am not a Farage fan what a ridiculous thing for Kyle to say when the OSA needs genuine and serious discussion

    I did wonder about children using VPN, because unless they are already in use they could not upload the software without payment

    I also am not sure what happens if a child uses their parents e mail address to verify their age. Does the site confirm the verification back to the e mail address or is it just taken as the verification

    We are living in extraordinary times but @HYUFD is in for an eye watering experience in due course if he has his own children and I think Kyle may well have to retract his allegation

    There are free VPNs available.

    On the question of age verification, first you'd need to distinguish whether a site uses a third party service (which makes most sense). Such a third party might consider the age of the account, I suppose, or use it in conjunction with something else, such as text messages: if I email you this code, can you text it back to me (or vice versa)?

    Look, I don't know the specifics of your particular site. If I were running that site, I'd use a third party service. First, it would reduce the chance of scaring away porn consumers as the porn site would not see the user's personal identification, and the verification site would not see which videos the user watches. Second, it passes liability (to an extent). Thirdly, age verification is more likely to be done competently.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,058
    Peter Kyle. Didn't he shit the bed about Boris mentioning Starmers failure to prosecute Savile?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,373

    eek said:

    The problem is everything I use has a VPN. Any company of any size uses VPNs to restrict who can access systems on their networks.

    In this day and age, any business or organisation that doesn't enforce their use them to enable offsite access to log in, their IT admins need the sack. Same as 2FA.
    As we've seen with The Co-op, M&S, and Knights of Old, some companies really have poor IT staff/don't have a grasp of what they need.

    About twenty years ago I had a client whose idea of IT security was buying new laptops/desktops every 18 months.
    About five years ago I had a prime minister whose idea of IT security was hosting a remote Cabinet meeting on a Chinese service and tweeting the Zoom meeting ID to the world along with the private email addresses of several ministers.
    But he got all the big calls right.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,270
    Selebian said:

    Re VPNs etc, I can't help feeling the whole thing is a genius government wheeze to improve computer literacy and encourage a new generation of script kiddies computer scientists :lol:

    1800% increase in VPN uploads apparently
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,908
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    I've heard that, sometimes, kids get hurt by cars.

    The sooner we ban these vile child-slaying Machines of Death the better.

    Anyone who disagrees thinks Anakin Skywalker should be in charge of every nursery in the country.

    That's an interesting intervention.

    No - it's about appropriate regulation, and in one (amongst other) particulars making our road network fail-safe not fail-dangerous. And that is both the environment, and the operators of the machines.

    A key measure is to institutionalise alternatives as practical options (ie can walk without being forced out into the traffic).
    Bonus as the timer ran out:

    If you want a good example, I can point you to a fairly recent incident where a car followed another car into one of our dangerous "maximum throughput and speed" 40-50mph traffic islands, where a block of small trees had since been grown on the verge (no joined up thinking), so the sight line into the first exit was obscured.

    So when the guy came round the corner, and could not stop, he said "I was forced to go up the pavement; I had no choice", where he killed someone on the pavement.

    Of course the stupid fuck had lots of choices.

    He had the choice to drive at a safe distance behind the car in front, at a safe speed for the distance he could see, to hit the car in front rather than careen up the pavement. IIRC he was still over the stupidly high DD limit from the night before, so he had the choice not to get pissed-out-of-his-brain when he knew he would be driving the next morning.
    Referring to the bit about sightlines, I always wonder why traffic planners are apparently unable to spot the hazards that we are all trained for when we learn to drive. "Can you reduce the speed limit as there are blind bends/blind humps/lots of kids on the pavement and drivers are incapable of driving to the conditions?" "No, there haven't been enough accidents yet, we need to wait for a couple of you to be killed"

    Given how safe the roads are, it is likely that a statistically significant number of accidents on any stretch of road will be only one or two, and might be obscured by accidents that are nothing to do with road conditions eg drunk driving or inattention. Or there might be lots of near misses where both drivers think "shit, that was close" and drive on, and traffic planners never get to hear about them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,830
    edited July 29

    Good morning

    For various reasons I haven't posted much these last 2 days but have scanned the thread, and with the greatest respect @HYUFD hasn't a clue on the subject of the use of the Internet by children

    Our son is head of IT at a local school, and has three children, so knows more than many on both the use in schools of smartphones and of course in his family

    He has installed controls on the time his children can spend on line, but even with restrictions his children still beg borrow and steal online time

    Of course in school peer pressure and knowledge expands the sites his children [11 and 13] access and our son is in favour of a ban on smartphone use in school with no exceptions

    I watched Peter Kyle this morning allegation about Farage and Saville, and as much as I am not a Farage fan what a ridiculous thing for Kyle to say when the OSA needs genuine and serious discussion

    I did wonder about children using VPN, because unless they are already in use they could not upload the software without payment

    I also am not sure what happens if a child uses their parents e mail address to verify their age. Does the site confirm the verification back to the e mail address or is it just taken as the verification

    We are living in extraordinary times but @HYUFD is in for an eye watering experience in due course if he has his own children and I think Kyle may well have to retract his allegation

    There are free VPNs available.

    On the question of age verification, first you'd need to distinguish whether a site uses a third party service (which makes most sense). Such a third party might consider the age of the account, I suppose, or use it in conjunction with something else, such as text messages: if I email you this code, can you text it back to me (or vice versa)?

    Look, I don't know the specifics of your particular site. If I were running that site, I'd use a third party service. First, it would reduce the chance of scaring away porn consumers as the porn site would not see the user's personal identification, and the verification site would not see which videos the user watches. Second, it passes liability (to an extent). Thirdly, age verification is more likely to be done competently.
    A couple of years ago, I picked up 13 year old son and some friends up from a party. Driving home, one girl (whose father was the US Consol General for a medium sized country) asked one of the others to share their internet connection. Apparently her phone was provided by this country's government and was locked down. But - being teenagers - they'd discovered that if one of them shared a WiFi network that was a VPN connection, she could evade all the controls.

    A few of his friends have parents who install software to lock down their phones and PCs. Usually it is laughably unsophisticated, basically forcing a certain DNS server.

    They all circumvent it with ease.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,956

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    I've heard that, sometimes, kids get hurt by cars.

    The sooner we ban these vile child-slaying Machines of Death the better.

    Anyone who disagrees thinks Anakin Skywalker should be in charge of every nursery in the country.

    That's an interesting intervention.

    No - it's about appropriate regulation, and in one (amongst other) particulars making our road network fail-safe not fail-dangerous. And that is both the environment, and the operators of the machines.

    A key measure is to institutionalise alternatives as practical options (ie can walk without being forced out into the traffic).
    Bonus as the timer ran out:

    If you want a good example, I can point you to a fairly recent incident where a car followed another car into one of our dangerous "maximum throughput and speed" 40-50mph traffic islands, where a block of small trees had since been grown on the verge (no joined up thinking), so the sight line into the first exit was obscured.

    So when the guy came round the corner, and could not stop, he said "I was forced to go up the pavement; I had no choice", where he killed someone on the pavement.

    Of course the stupid fuck had lots of choices.

    He had the choice to drive at a safe distance behind the car in front, at a safe speed for the distance he could see, to hit the car in front rather than careen up the pavement. IIRC he was still over the stupidly high DD limit from the night before, so he had the choice not to get pissed-out-of-his-brain when he knew he would be driving the next morning.
    Referring to the bit about sightlines, I always wonder why traffic planners are apparently unable to spot the hazards that we are all trained for when we learn to drive. "Can you reduce the speed limit as there are blind bends/blind humps/lots of kids on the pavement and drivers are incapable of driving to the conditions?" "No, there haven't been enough accidents yet, we need to wait for a couple of you to be killed"

    Given how safe the roads are, it is likely that a statistically significant number of accidents on any stretch of road will be only one or two, and might be obscured by accidents that are nothing to do with road conditions eg drunk driving or inattention. Or there might be lots of near misses where both drivers think "shit, that was close" and drive on, and traffic planners never get to hear about them.
    Stick some good cameras around a car, drive around and AI should be able to do a decent risk analysis.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,194
    Unless she is impeached presumably the Peruvian President could go on even with a 0% rating
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,298
    edited July 29
    boulay said:



    @Sunil_Prasannan you will be pleased to know there is a documentary on R4 at 4 today about Depeche Mode. I just heard a trailer for it on this morning’s special three hour special of Woman’s Hour.

    Thanks! 4pm, Looking forward to it :)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,665
    edited July 29
    I must apologise for mocking Healey yesterday, without checking the source.

    The actual statement. Healy neither says nor suggests that the UK is “ready to fight” in the Pacific nor in defence of Taiwan.

    As usual, the Telegraph’s headline is wholly inaccurate and deliberately misleading.

    https://x.com/John_A_Ridge/status/1949859194271617206
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,703
    Farage demands apology from Peter Kyle over his comments on Sky News and called them disgusting .
  • isamisam Posts: 42,270

    This is the Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology

    Peter Kyle: “If Jimmy Savile were alive today he’d be perpetrating his crimes online, and Nigel Farage is saying he’s on their side”

    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1950086188649365825

    Peter Kyle who was bezzie mates with Ivor Caplin?

    https://x.com/lowkey0nline/status/1878185415225614400?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,956
    nico67 said:

    Farage demands apology from Peter Kyle over his comments on Sky News and called them disgusting .

    Now then, will an apology fix it?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,020
    Good news.

    I’ve graduated from ballet school.

    I got a 2:2.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    HYUFD said:

    Unless she is impeached presumably the Peruvian President could go on even with a 0% rating

    If someone was realky at 2% it feels like government would simply break down, its astonishing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,194

    Looking at the last thread, HYUFD seems have gone full Stasi...the government will monitor who downloads VPNs. Crickey.

    The fact we even having any discussion that VPNs could be restricted in a Western liberal democracy is bonkers to me.

    I found it really funny, first of all it shows a huge misunderstanding of VPNs and secondly GCHQ doesn't have the ability to monitor every VPN downloaded.

    Imagine the scenes at GCHQ, we can either monitor those Russian spies in Salisbury or we can monitor Ben Smith, aged 14, in Reading downloading a VPN so he can watch some porn.
    Or you can just hire more at GCHQ, it is a relatively secure job for techies
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    nico67 said:

    Farage demands apology from Peter Kyle over his comments on Sky News and called them disgusting .

    It was an incredibly dumb thing to day, though i doubt he'll get an apology.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,956

    Good news.

    I’ve graduated from ballet school.

    I got a 2:2.

    Good job you are the moderator as in some forums a pointeless joke like that might get you barre'd.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,270
    Sky saying the Kyle - Farage row is expanding into the wider aspects of free speech, and Wilfred Frost, who did the interview with Kyle, emphasising he asked Kyle twice if he really meant his accusations
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,967
    nico67 said:

    Farage demands apology from Peter Kyle over his comments on Sky News and called them disgusting .

    Kyle doubles down on Twitter and is being ripped on mercilessly for it.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,189
    edited July 29
    Peter Kyle a man totally unqualified for his position vs Zia Yusuf, a bloke who ran a successful tech company.

    I don't have a lot of time for Reforms simplific sloganeering solutions but on this it will be like Konstantin Kisin vs Jimmy thr Giant.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,329
    MattW said:

    I've heard that, sometimes, kids get hurt by cars.

    The sooner we ban these vile child-slaying Machines of Death the better.

    Anyone who disagrees thinks Anakin Skywalker should be in charge of every nursery in the country.

    That's an interesting intervention.

    No - it's about appropriate regulation, and in one (amongst other) particulars making our road network fail-safe not fail-dangerous. And that is both the environment, and the operators of the machines.

    A key measure is to institutionalise alternatives as practical options (ie can walk without being forced out into the traffic).
    I think @Morris_Dancer is suggesting that internet use can only happen after the age of 17 and be subject to a rigorous test. Laptops should undergo government mandated annual inspections and anyone caught watching some interesting videos given points, bans and eventually jail sentences.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,194

    Good morning

    For various reasons I haven't posted much these last 2 days but have scanned the thread, and with the greatest respect @HYUFD hasn't a clue on the subject of the use of the Internet by children

    Our son is head of IT at a local school, and has three children, so knows more than many on both the use in schools of smartphones and of course in his family

    He has installed controls on the time his children can spend on line, but even with restrictions his children still beg borrow and steal online time

    Of course in school peer pressure and knowledge expands the sites his children [11 and 13] access and our son is in favour of a ban on smartphone use in school with no exceptions

    I watched Peter Kyle this morning allegation about Farage and Saville, and as much as I am not a Farage fan what a ridiculous thing for Kyle to say when the OSA needs genuine and serious discussion

    I did wonder about children using VPN, because unless they are already in use they could not upload the software without payment

    I also am not sure what happens if a child uses their parents e mail address to verify their age. Does the site confirm the verification back to the e mail address or is it just taken as the verification

    We are living in extraordinary times but @HYUFD is in for an eye watering experience in due course if he has his own children and I think Kyle may well have to retract his allegation

    Kyle is considering banning social media use by under 16s not just in schools but anywhere
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,703

    nico67 said:

    Farage demands apology from Peter Kyle over his comments on Sky News and called them disgusting .

    Now then, will an apology fix it?
    Kyle shouldn’t apologise and should double down on the comments . Farage trying to incite violence with immigrant hotels so he should STFU . He can dish it out but can’t take it .

    Personally I think the OSA is poor legislation but it’s time opposition politicians used the Reform playbook .
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,270
    HYUFD said:

    Looking at the last thread, HYUFD seems have gone full Stasi...the government will monitor who downloads VPNs. Crickey.

    The fact we even having any discussion that VPNs could be restricted in a Western liberal democracy is bonkers to me.

    I found it really funny, first of all it shows a huge misunderstanding of VPNs and secondly GCHQ doesn't have the ability to monitor every VPN downloaded.

    Imagine the scenes at GCHQ, we can either monitor those Russian spies in Salisbury or we can monitor Ben Smith, aged 14, in Reading downloading a VPN so he can watch some porn.
    Or you can just hire more at GCHQ, it is a relatively secure job for techies
    I think it is time you moved on from that subject
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,189
    HYUFD said:

    Looking at the last thread, HYUFD seems have gone full Stasi...the government will monitor who downloads VPNs. Crickey.

    The fact we even having any discussion that VPNs could be restricted in a Western liberal democracy is bonkers to me.

    I found it really funny, first of all it shows a huge misunderstanding of VPNs and secondly GCHQ doesn't have the ability to monitor every VPN downloaded.

    Imagine the scenes at GCHQ, we can either monitor those Russian spies in Salisbury or we can monitor Ben Smith, aged 14, in Reading downloading a VPN so he can watch some porn.
    Or you can just hire more at GCHQ, it is a relatively secure job for techies
    Head in hands....I thought the Tories were all about personal responsibility and a small state?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,270
    HYUFD said:

    Good morning

    For various reasons I haven't posted much these last 2 days but have scanned the thread, and with the greatest respect @HYUFD hasn't a clue on the subject of the use of the Internet by children

    Our son is head of IT at a local school, and has three children, so knows more than many on both the use in schools of smartphones and of course in his family

    He has installed controls on the time his children can spend on line, but even with restrictions his children still beg borrow and steal online time

    Of course in school peer pressure and knowledge expands the sites his children [11 and 13] access and our son is in favour of a ban on smartphone use in school with no exceptions

    I watched Peter Kyle this morning allegation about Farage and Saville, and as much as I am not a Farage fan what a ridiculous thing for Kyle to say when the OSA needs genuine and serious discussion

    I did wonder about children using VPN, because unless they are already in use they could not upload the software without payment

    I also am not sure what happens if a child uses their parents e mail address to verify their age. Does the site confirm the verification back to the e mail address or is it just taken as the verification

    We are living in extraordinary times but @HYUFD is in for an eye watering experience in due course if he has his own children and I think Kyle may well have to retract his allegation

    Kyle is considering banning social media use by under 16s not just in schools but anywhere
    Problem is it will just go underground
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,658
    edited July 29
    Duplicate
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,658

    Peter Kyle. Didn't he shit the bed about Boris mentioning Starmers failure to prosecute Savile?

    A bit of a mirror image, that !

    The problem there was the Borisism ie Boris was either deluded or lying (I'm not opening windows on men's minds), as has been very well demonstrated. And it was when he had his back to the wall in the Commons; perhaps he thought he was still a journo.

    Starmer was not in on the decision, which was taken by a prosecution lawyer in the CPS.

    Here's Full Fact checking it: https://fullfact.org/online/keir-starmer-prosecute-jimmy-savile/
  • isamisam Posts: 42,270
    edited July 29
    This fellow has been all over the links between Peter Kyle & Ivor Caplin for a long while. There can’t be many Labour MPs in a worse position to start trying to associate other politicians with paedophiles than Kyle. What a blunder


  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,665
    nico67 said:

    Farage demands apology from Peter Kyle over his comments on Sky News and called them disgusting .

    Farage is a touchy fucker. Come on Silk Cuts, do your job.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,270
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Farage demands apology from Peter Kyle over his comments on Sky News and called them disgusting .

    Now then, will an apology fix it?
    Kyle shouldn’t apologise and should double down on the comments . Farage trying to incite violence with immigrant hotels so he should STFU . He can dish it out but can’t take it .

    Personally I think the OSA is poor legislation but it’s time opposition politicians used the Reform playbook .
    There is a line and Kyle has unwittingly created all the headlines for Farage who is expanding the argument into free speech

    Responsible discussion over the act is needed, not mud slinging
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,373

    Sky saying the Kyle - Farage row is expanding into the wider aspects of free speech, and Wilfred Frost, who did the interview with Kyle, emphasising he asked Kyle twice if he really meant his accusations

    We are all rooting for your guy.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,270

    Sky saying the Kyle - Farage row is expanding into the wider aspects of free speech, and Wilfred Frost, who did the interview with Kyle, emphasising he asked Kyle twice if he really meant his accusations

    We are all rooting for your guy.
    Who do you think my guy is because it certainly isnt Farage, but Kyle making an unnecessary accusation over a serious subject is ill thought through

  • TazTaz Posts: 19,967

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Farage demands apology from Peter Kyle over his comments on Sky News and called them disgusting .

    Now then, will an apology fix it?
    Kyle shouldn’t apologise and should double down on the comments . Farage trying to incite violence with immigrant hotels so he should STFU . He can dish it out but can’t take it .

    Personally I think the OSA is poor legislation but it’s time opposition politicians used the Reform playbook .
    There is a line and Kyle has unwittingly created all the headlines for Farage who is expanding the argument into free speech

    Responsible discussion over the act is needed, not mud slinging
    Kyle must have had the green light from labour to use that line of attack.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,665
    HYUFD said:

    Good morning

    For various reasons I haven't posted much these last 2 days but have scanned the thread, and with the greatest respect @HYUFD hasn't a clue on the subject of the use of the Internet by children

    Our son is head of IT at a local school, and has three children, so knows more than many on both the use in schools of smartphones and of course in his family

    He has installed controls on the time his children can spend on line, but even with restrictions his children still beg borrow and steal online time

    Of course in school peer pressure and knowledge expands the sites his children [11 and 13] access and our son is in favour of a ban on smartphone use in school with no exceptions

    I watched Peter Kyle this morning allegation about Farage and Saville, and as much as I am not a Farage fan what a ridiculous thing for Kyle to say when the OSA needs genuine and serious discussion

    I did wonder about children using VPN, because unless they are already in use they could not upload the software without payment

    I also am not sure what happens if a child uses their parents e mail address to verify their age. Does the site confirm the verification back to the e mail address or is it just taken as the verification

    We are living in extraordinary times but @HYUFD is in for an eye watering experience in due course if he has his own children and I think Kyle may well have to retract his allegation

    Kyle is considering banning social media use by under 16s not just in schools but anywhere
    Kyle is a plonker.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,979
    Morning all :)

    Unlike some, I'm scared of commenting on the OSA and revealing the extent of my technological ignorance. Censorship of a form for children and adoloscents has always existed - in my time it was trying to get into an "X" film at the local cinema but that takes us into the even murkier waters of parental responsibility and morality into which any Government should avoid wading unless they are really sure of what they are doing.

    The other point is why we frame legislation and rules on the basis everyone will meekly comply. Trying to figure out how any regulation could be circumvented would be a better place to start and put in mitigation or counter measures would at least optimise the impact but technology is evolving so fast what seemed impossible not so long ago is now easily achievable and the extent to which any legislation can keep pace with that evolution is dubious at best.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,058
    Taz said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Farage demands apology from Peter Kyle over his comments on Sky News and called them disgusting .

    Now then, will an apology fix it?
    Kyle shouldn’t apologise and should double down on the comments . Farage trying to incite violence with immigrant hotels so he should STFU . He can dish it out but can’t take it .

    Personally I think the OSA is poor legislation but it’s time opposition politicians used the Reform playbook .
    There is a line and Kyle has unwittingly created all the headlines for Farage who is expanding the argument into free speech

    Responsible discussion over the act is needed, not mud slinging
    Kyle must have had the green light from labour to use that line of attack.
    And he has doubled down. Focus groups must have gone wild for it
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,665
    Dura_Ace said:

    nico67 said:

    Farage demands apology from Peter Kyle over his comments on Sky News and called them disgusting .

    Farage is a touchy fucker. Come on Silk Cuts, do your job.
    Is he a Silk Cut man? I had him down as a Dunhill man, or maybe Peter Stuyvesant.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,189
    edited July 29
    Just watched the Zarah Sultana interview with Novara media about your party...see couldn't go 30s without crowbarring Gaza into every answer.

    What's your stance on public ownership of utilities....nationalise them all, did I tell.you about utilities provision in Gaza....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,966
    As someone who knows Peru - the numbers for Boluarte are quite reasonable. I actually posted them in a thread a little while back.

    In a country which specialises in politicians who are both corrupt and aggressively incompetent, she has excelled.

    Liz Truss would do a better job - literally, and after a sober consideration of the facts.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,442
    boulay said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    nico67 said:

    Farage demands apology from Peter Kyle over his comments on Sky News and called them disgusting .

    Farage is a touchy fucker. Come on Silk Cuts, do your job.
    Is he a Silk Cut man? I had him down as a Dunhill man, or maybe Peter Stuyvesant.
    No, Silk Cut. Like Robbie Williams.
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