I find it really weird that the press always have to say Tommy Robinson, real name Stephen Yaxley-Lennon...they didn't write every article with Boris, real name, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel...
Robinson has many names; he's also a con-man as well as a violent thug. He has used false ones on passports, company directorships and others. TBF to Boris, we know who he is; he's no Grant Shapps.
Guardian piece mentioning 3 names in 3 para's, none of the Tommy Robinson:
The court heard Lennon, who had previously been refused entry to the US, used his friend Andrew McMaster's passport to travel to New York in September. He used a self-check-in kiosk to board the flight at Heathrow, and was allowed through when the document was checked in the bag-drop area.
But when he arrived at JFK, customs officials who took his fingerprints realised he was not McMaster. Lennon was asked to attend a second interview but left the airport, entering the US illegally.
I really don't know why anyone swallows the shtick - other than fellow-travellers who benefit from conning useful idiots.
I still don't see how it is relevant in general articles. Lots of people call themselves by different names. The public know who he is. In court proceeding, yes it makes some sense, but otherwise, I just find it a strange obsession by the press that no matter what, they have to insert the phrase in there somewhere, it doesn't add anything.
Reading around, it's also relevant that Yaxley-Lennon used his fake names to conceal his criminal history for a number of years. He was not unmasked until 2010 - by Searchlight magazine.
Of course, he doesn't like it. Which is another good reason for so doing.
On a parallel, there are for example a number of Reform Councillors who are gradually having their pseudonyms and past conduct revealed - some of which is well-concealed, some of which is as dopey as Mr Magoo.
15 years ago, that sort of proves my point, that it just isn't a big secret and it is mentioned 1000s of times.
Isn't part of the reason that court documents/proceedings will use his real name, so you need to explain that to the reader? And most times Tommy is in the news, it's because of court proceedings!
I literally said this in the thread, when it is in relation to court proceedings it makes sense, but I can give you 100s of articles that isn't the case. It is absolutely clear it is editorial policy to do so and it isn't restricted to one outlet or political leaning.
After 17 years I've just found out that there's a transit train at Heathrow Terminal 5. Never departed from the terminal, only found out thanks to a YouTube video.
Not to mention dangling a pardon for Maxwell in exchange for testimony discussed in a two day private session, solely with Trump's lawyer.
The very idea that Trump’s former personal lawyers would play a role, much less a potentially decisive role, in determining whether he was complicit in any of Epstein’s misdeeds is an insult to our criminal justice system. https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1949998517583298734
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, social media, etc that they use. The divide I think is the "very online" and understand technology vs those who aren't, rather than left vs right.
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
Officers have confirmed that the suspect, a 42-year-old man from Bedfordshire, boarded a flight out of the country in the early hours of this morning. Detectives are continuing to work closely to progress the investigation and bring the man into custody for questioning.
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
Labour plan to frame the next election as a choice between Farage as PM or Starmer as PM. The hope is that enough swing voters and wavering green/corbyn voters will shiver at the actual very real possibility of Farage being in No. 10 and put a peg on their nose and keep Labour in.
Trying to make it a French-style presidential run-off where one on the ballot is radical populist right.
Not to mention dangling a pardon for Maxwell in exchange for testimony discussed in a two day private session, solely with Trump's lawyer.
The very idea that Trump’s former personal lawyers would play a role, much less a potentially decisive role, in determining whether he was complicit in any of Epstein’s misdeeds is an insult to our criminal justice system. https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1949998517583298734
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
Wildly o/t (yet again) , or, just maybe, not. I've taking an interest recently in human migration and it has struck me that, as far as Europe is concerned, migration has generally been FROM the Middle East INTO Europe, and that this has been the case ever Homo sapiens first left Africa. Our last population change, around 600CE, was similar, in that it was from the East (continental Europe) to the British Isles. In that context, maybe the last 1000 years or so, with no significant migration from the East to the West have been atypical, unless the ability to cross the Atlantic has meant the migratory route bypassed us and went straight to the Americas.
So crossing the Channel in (fairly) small boats is something that has been going on since before the dawn of history!
Indeed and we had plenty of migration from Eastern Europe into Britain until the Iron Curtain descended in 1945 and we forget the large numbers who came here from Ireland in the mid 19th century (including some of my ancestors).
There's something about people arriving in small boats which triggers a cultural response in an island nation and yet no one has come up with a coherent, workable, legal and cost-effective response to the problem. There's all sorts of flailing around from all sides but nothing approaching a solution.
Arrest all illegal immigrants and deport them without process would seem a response of sorts except that's up there with kicking the can down the road as they will try again. I'm also not sure it's legal under the ECHR hence those calling for us to leave but I'd rather entrust my meat and two veg to a psychopath with a rusty saw than leave my human rights to be decided by the likes of Farage, Anderson, Tice, Badenoch and Jenrick.
So we're back to a solution or the lack of one. IF there's a response, it's probably pan-European and involves dealing with the problem nearer the point of origin (Cameron had a point). That probably means a neo-liberal foreign policy which no one thinks works or can be afforded but how else do you stem or mitigate the flow of young men from the likes of Afghanistan, Syria or Eritrea?
Jewish immigration from eastern and central Europe caused huge moral panic at the time. The Daily Mail was full of articles that read... well, just like today's articles about Muslims, or worse. Modern UK immigration laws were first introduced because of Jewish immigration, with the 1905 Aliens Act. The main nationality refused entry in 1938 and 1939 was German, and most of those were German Jews. What then happened to the people we refused entry to?
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
Officers have confirmed that the suspect, a 42-year-old man from Bedfordshire, boarded a flight out of the country in the early hours of this morning. Detectives are continuing to work closely to progress the investigation and bring the man into custody for questioning.
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
Labour plan to frame the next election as a choice between Farage as PM or Starmer as PM. The hope is that enough swing voters and wavering green/corbyn voters will shiver at the actual very real possibility of Farage being in No. 10 and put a peg on their nose and keep Labour in.
Trying to make it a French-style presidential run-off where one on the ballot is radical populist right.
And that tactic might work. The difficulty there is that people need to be (a) convinced that Labour are a tolerable alternative and (b) fear Reform enough.
I think (b) is manageable. But they’re struggling on (a) at the moment.
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
That would be a good topic for a Nick Clegg interview.
"Could you explain to the viewers why Meta's algorithm that pushes harmful content to children can't be rewritten by Meta so that it doesn't?"
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
Kemi is on record not supporting it but voted in favour due to being in Cabinet at the time which is a fair position to hold, it's hardly a resigning matter and Cabinet has collective responsibility.
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
That would be a good topic for a Nick Clegg interview.
"Could you explain to the viewers why Meta's algorithm that pushes harmful content to children can't be rewritten by Meta so that it doesn't?"
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
Given that every political figure who has stuck their head over the parapet so far has instantly been accused of being on the side of paedophiles & abusers, a certain amount of grace time whilst people work out the right line to take is understandable.
But the Liberal Democrats need to decide whether they’re Liberal or not, frankly. This bill is, as it’s opponents have consistently pointed out, fundamentally illiberal.
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
That would be a good topic for a Nick Clegg interview.
"Could you explain to the viewers why Meta's algorithm that pushes harmful content to children can't be rewritten by Meta so that it doesn't?"
Clegg left Meta earlier this year.
I believe he has a book out soon about how to save the internet.
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
I assume it's a very deliberate 'fire with fire' attack from Labour. A huge part of Reform's pitch is to link to immigration to sexual offences, and the Save Our Kids/Children slogans have been all over far right marches for the last few years.
If Labour do push this line, Farage could end up trying to push a more nuanced argument, which is definitely not the place he wants to be.
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
That would be a good topic for a Nick Clegg interview.
"Could you explain to the viewers why Meta's algorithm that pushes harmful content to children can't be rewritten by Meta so that it doesn't?"
Clegg left Meta earlier this year.
And? He took a lot of money from them in the years he was employed by them to obstruct measures to stop them pushing harmful content.
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
I assume it's a very deliberate 'fire with fire' attack from Labour. A huge part of Reform's pitch is to link to immigration to sexual offences, and the Save Our Kids/Children slogans have been all over far right marches for the last few years.
If Labour do push this line, Farage could end up trying to push a more nuanced argument, which is definitely not the place he wants to be.
Plus a nice synergy with the Epstein stuff around Trump, even if unspoken. Fascinating how that scandal has inverted so abruptly.
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
Kemi is on record not supporting it but voted in favour due to being in Cabinet at the time which is a fair position to hold, it's hardly a resigning matter and Cabinet has collective responsibility.
Does she stand by any of the legislation or policies the last few Tory governments have produced?
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
Libertarianism for the law-abiding, authoritarianism for criminals.
Unlike Jenrick, Katie Lam looks comfortable in front of the camera. Ironically, the camera operator and director seem a bit dicey but we'd need @Roger to give his professional opinion.
Politically, what is she playing at? Any would-be future leader needs to attract support from all wings of the party and to express a vision of Conservatism for the middle third of the 21st Century. With Cleverly rumoured to be shooting for London Mayor, there is space on that side of the park.
The world - and the UK - is swinging firmly right. By 2028 this may well be a centrist stance and @williamglenn will be moderating PB
So this is sensible positioning
I do think she’d be a good choice for leader. Young, articulate, bold, not lightweight like Kemi. Kind of a Tory Katie Forbes
Cleverly would do nothing (he should try for mayor) and Stride would be a pathetic disaster sealing their doom
Jenrick or Lam
The lurch Right in response to stagnating living standards is indeed the Big Picture. It's disappointing. A significant chunk of the working classes in the West have decided to blame Immigrants. This is what is powering the Populist Right. There are other factors in the mix but xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment is the essential fuel. If people were instead to blame their woes on the inequitable distribution of wealth baked into capitalism the lurch would be more to the Left. The mission of the (up to now) underperforming wing of Populism (the Left variety) is to make this happen. We shouldn't rule it out. These are volatile times. Change can come quickly and left-field (pun intended) things can happen. Eg just as Donald Trump's win turbo'd the Populist Right globally, a backlash against it (which has to be quite likely) could do the same for the Left. You and ilk will be less bouncy then.
The median voter in much of the West wants to tax the rich and large corporations more and send many of the immigrants back, hence Corbyn and Farage, Le Pen and Melenchon, Trump and Sanders, Linke and the AfD have all made gains
In the West populism with a strong nativist component (us v them) seems to be an easier sell than one without. This is why it's hard for the Left to make a success of it. They shy away from that sort of thing. Their 'us v them' is workers v the capitalist boss class, an economic battleline. That doesn't resonate with people in the way that 'us' v immigrants does.
White Workers of the West unite! You have nothing to lose but your Muslim Asylum Seekers!
It doesn't swell my heart but it's closer to reality than the original.
Unlike Jenrick, Katie Lam looks comfortable in front of the camera. Ironically, the camera operator and director seem a bit dicey but we'd need @Roger to give his professional opinion.
Politically, what is she playing at? Any would-be future leader needs to attract support from all wings of the party and to express a vision of Conservatism for the middle third of the 21st Century. With Cleverly rumoured to be shooting for London Mayor, there is space on that side of the park.
The world - and the UK - is swinging firmly right. By 2028 this may well be a centrist stance and @williamglenn will be moderating PB
So this is sensible positioning
I do think she’d be a good choice for leader. Young, articulate, bold, not lightweight like Kemi. Kind of a Tory Katie Forbes
Cleverly would do nothing (he should try for mayor) and Stride would be a pathetic disaster sealing their doom
Jenrick or Lam
The lurch Right in response to stagnating living standards is indeed the Big Picture. It's disappointing. A significant chunk of the working classes in the West have decided to blame Immigrants. This is what is powering the Populist Right. There are other factors in the mix but xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment is the essential fuel. If people were instead to blame their woes on the inequitable distribution of wealth baked into capitalism the lurch would be more to the Left. The mission of the (up to now) underperforming wing of Populism (the Left variety) is to make this happen. We shouldn't rule it out. These are volatile times. Change can come quickly and left-field (pun intended) things can happen. Eg just as Donald Trump's win turbo'd the Populist Right globally, a backlash against it (which has to be quite likely) could do the same for the Left. You and ilk will be less bouncy then.
The median voter in much of the West wants to tax the rich and large corporations more and send many of the immigrants back, hence Corbyn and Farage, Le Pen and Melenchon, Trump and Sanders, Linke and the AfD have all made gains
In the West populism with a strong nativist component (us v them) seems to be an easier sell than one without. This is why it's hard for the Left to make a success of it. They shy away from that sort of thing. Their 'us v them' is workers v the capitalist boss class, an economic battleline. That doesn't resonate with people in the way that 'us' v immigrants does.
White Workers of the West unite! You have nothing to lose but your Muslim Asylum Seekers!
It doesn't swell my heart but it's closer to reality than the original.
Which is, in turn, a reaction to language.
I find it interesting that progressives talk in terms of things like “micro-aggressions” but when it comes to taking to the errrr… natives, they don’t think in the same terms.
What “the natives” see is that immigration has been used for wage suppression, and in a strange alliance, supported by chunks of the traditional left.
“There is no such thing as x culture and it’s evil anyway”
I'm not arguing that unfettered mass immigration ad infinitum is either good or sustainable. I'm just trying to describe what's going on as I see it. In particular why it's the Right not the Left who are profiting from the disillusionment with mainstream politics and consequent surge in what we're calling "populism". It needs a fearful xenophobic angle to succeed and the Right are better at talking to and exploiting that impulse.
I’m saying that the way to deal with such “populism” is to create a positive message/path
Attlee & Co. said there was plenty wrong with the country. But they self evidently loved the country and its people.
“You are shit. Your culture is both non-existent and shit. These other people - all of their culture is awesome and we like them. Even the bits of their culture which are the same as the bits of your non-existent culture. Which we hate.”
It’s not a message that inspires.
Who is saying that? I hear a lot more hating on British culture, especially working class culture, from the right than the left.
They hate different bits.
Indeed
Some don’t hear it for the same reason that fish don’t notice water.
I think it was after Gove added some positive civics stuff the curriculum that Yasmin Alibhai-Brown wrote column that was essentially - “Am I to be forced to *like* this country?”
To me it’s pretty simple - it’s part of the maintenance of liberal democracy. You need to promote a positive vision of the country. If you don’t, you get tribalism. And everyone will invent their own identities.
Do you think the wannabe Muslim Party types are selling introspection and self doubt to their voters?
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
Labour need a Reform/Tory party split, not Reform sending the Tories into oblivion.
Officers have confirmed that the suspect, a 42-year-old man from Bedfordshire, boarded a flight out of the country in the early hours of this morning. Detectives are continuing to work closely to progress the investigation and bring the man into custody for questioning.
Sun lounger at a 5* Hotel in Tenerife I would think is where they probably want to start.
It’s was in a station in London. That means that either there are multiple CCTV videos available - or some rather serious questions for the people running the station*.
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
I assume it's a very deliberate 'fire with fire' attack from Labour. A huge part of Reform's pitch is to link to immigration to sexual offences, and the Save Our Kids/Children slogans have been all over far right marches for the last few years.
If Labour do push this line, Farage could end up trying to push a more nuanced argument, which is definitely not the place he wants to be.
It's the kind of charge that Alistair Campbell could make stick, at the height of his pomps and power.
Thoughts and prayers for, well, me, as I have to go to something called “SE14”
Catch the 666 bus.
The 36 actually.
Does the 36 bus have a first class seating and fine dining option?
No? Blimey, no wonder Leon is all of a tizzy.
My abiding memory of the 36 - a few years back in its bendy bus guise - is of a bus stopped in Camberwell New Road and a guy walking along it and systematically smashing the windows with an iron bar.
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
That would be a good topic for a Nick Clegg interview.
"Could you explain to the viewers why Meta's algorithm that pushes harmful content to children can't be rewritten by Meta so that it doesn't?"
Clegg left Meta earlier this year.
And? He took a lot of money from them in the years he was employed by them to obstruct measures to stop them pushing harmful content.
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
That would be a good topic for a Nick Clegg interview.
"Could you explain to the viewers why Meta's algorithm that pushes harmful content to children can't be rewritten by Meta so that it doesn't?"
Clegg left Meta earlier this year.
And? He took a lot of money from them in the years he was employed by them to obstruct measures to stop them pushing harmful content.
An actual thing that could be done is banning algorithms that go beyond -
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
Given that every political figure who has stuck their head over the parapet so far has instantly been accused of being on the side of paedophiles & abusers, a certain amount of grace time whilst people work out the right line to take is understandable.
But the Liberal Democrats need to decide whether they’re Liberal or not, frankly. This bill is, as it’s opponents have consistently pointed out, fundamentally illiberal.
That's like saying asking for ID before entering a bar is illiberal.
Unlike Jenrick, Katie Lam looks comfortable in front of the camera. Ironically, the camera operator and director seem a bit dicey but we'd need @Roger to give his professional opinion.
Politically, what is she playing at? Any would-be future leader needs to attract support from all wings of the party and to express a vision of Conservatism for the middle third of the 21st Century. With Cleverly rumoured to be shooting for London Mayor, there is space on that side of the park.
The world - and the UK - is swinging firmly right. By 2028 this may well be a centrist stance and @williamglenn will be moderating PB
So this is sensible positioning
I do think she’d be a good choice for leader. Young, articulate, bold, not lightweight like Kemi. Kind of a Tory Katie Forbes
Cleverly would do nothing (he should try for mayor) and Stride would be a pathetic disaster sealing their doom
Jenrick or Lam
The lurch Right in response to stagnating living standards is indeed the Big Picture. It's disappointing. A significant chunk of the working classes in the West have decided to blame Immigrants. This is what is powering the Populist Right. There are other factors in the mix but xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment is the essential fuel. If people were instead to blame their woes on the inequitable distribution of wealth baked into capitalism the lurch would be more to the Left. The mission of the (up to now) underperforming wing of Populism (the Left variety) is to make this happen. We shouldn't rule it out. These are volatile times. Change can come quickly and left-field (pun intended) things can happen. Eg just as Donald Trump's win turbo'd the Populist Right globally, a backlash against it (which has to be quite likely) could do the same for the Left. You and ilk will be less bouncy then.
The median voter in much of the West wants to tax the rich and large corporations more and send many of the immigrants back, hence Corbyn and Farage, Le Pen and Melenchon, Trump and Sanders, Linke and the AfD have all made gains
In the West populism with a strong nativist component (us v them) seems to be an easier sell than one without. This is why it's hard for the Left to make a success of it. They shy away from that sort of thing. Their 'us v them' is workers v the capitalist boss class, an economic battleline. That doesn't resonate with people in the way that 'us' v immigrants does.
White Workers of the West unite! You have nothing to lose but your Muslim Asylum Seekers!
It doesn't swell my heart but it's closer to reality than the original.
Unlike Jenrick, Katie Lam looks comfortable in front of the camera. Ironically, the camera operator and director seem a bit dicey but we'd need @Roger to give his professional opinion.
Politically, what is she playing at? Any would-be future leader needs to attract support from all wings of the party and to express a vision of Conservatism for the middle third of the 21st Century. With Cleverly rumoured to be shooting for London Mayor, there is space on that side of the park.
The world - and the UK - is swinging firmly right. By 2028 this may well be a centrist stance and @williamglenn will be moderating PB
So this is sensible positioning
I do think she’d be a good choice for leader. Young, articulate, bold, not lightweight like Kemi. Kind of a Tory Katie Forbes
Cleverly would do nothing (he should try for mayor) and Stride would be a pathetic disaster sealing their doom
Jenrick or Lam
The lurch Right in response to stagnating living standards is indeed the Big Picture. It's disappointing. A significant chunk of the working classes in the West have decided to blame Immigrants. This is what is powering the Populist Right. There are other factors in the mix but xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment is the essential fuel. If people were instead to blame their woes on the inequitable distribution of wealth baked into capitalism the lurch would be more to the Left. The mission of the (up to now) underperforming wing of Populism (the Left variety) is to make this happen. We shouldn't rule it out. These are volatile times. Change can come quickly and left-field (pun intended) things can happen. Eg just as Donald Trump's win turbo'd the Populist Right globally, a backlash against it (which has to be quite likely) could do the same for the Left. You and ilk will be less bouncy then.
The median voter in much of the West wants to tax the rich and large corporations more and send many of the immigrants back, hence Corbyn and Farage, Le Pen and Melenchon, Trump and Sanders, Linke and the AfD have all made gains
In the West populism with a strong nativist component (us v them) seems to be an easier sell than one without. This is why it's hard for the Left to make a success of it. They shy away from that sort of thing. Their 'us v them' is workers v the capitalist boss class, an economic battleline. That doesn't resonate with people in the way that 'us' v immigrants does.
White Workers of the West unite! You have nothing to lose but your Muslim Asylum Seekers!
It doesn't swell my heart but it's closer to reality than the original.
Which is, in turn, a reaction to language.
I find it interesting that progressives talk in terms of things like “micro-aggressions” but when it comes to taking to the errrr… natives, they don’t think in the same terms.
What “the natives” see is that immigration has been used for wage suppression, and in a strange alliance, supported by chunks of the traditional left.
“There is no such thing as x culture and it’s evil anyway”
I'm not arguing that unfettered mass immigration ad infinitum is either good or sustainable. I'm just trying to describe what's going on as I see it. In particular why it's the Right not the Left who are profiting from the disillusionment with mainstream politics and consequent surge in what we're calling "populism". It needs a fearful xenophobic angle to succeed and the Right are better at talking to and exploiting that impulse.
I’m saying that the way to deal with such “populism” is to create a positive message/path
Attlee & Co. said there was plenty wrong with the country. But they self evidently loved the country and its people.
“You are shit. Your culture is both non-existent and shit. These other people - all of their culture is awesome and we like them. Even the bits of their culture which are the same as the bits of your non-existent culture. Which we hate.”
It’s not a message that inspires.
Who is saying that? I hear a lot more hating on British culture, especially working class culture, from the right than the left.
They hate different bits.
Indeed
Some don’t hear it for the same reason that fish don’t notice water.
I think it was after Gove added some positive civics stuff the curriculum that Yasmin Alibhai-Brown wrote column that was essentially - “Am I to be forced to *like* this country?”
To me it’s pretty simple - it’s part of the maintenance of liberal democracy. You need to promote a positive vision of the country. If you don’t, you get tribalism. And everyone will invent their own identities.
Do you think the wannabe Muslim Party types are selling introspection and self doubt to their voters?
I agree. Negativity feeds populism. If we're going that route I'd like to see a Left version prevailing, or at least being influential, but I'd much prefer to stick with mainstream politics. That's why you won't find me partaking in "it's all gone to shit" hysteria.
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
That would be a good topic for a Nick Clegg interview.
"Could you explain to the viewers why Meta's algorithm that pushes harmful content to children can't be rewritten by Meta so that it doesn't?"
Clegg left Meta earlier this year.
I believe he has a book out soon about how to save the internet.
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
That would be a good topic for a Nick Clegg interview.
"Could you explain to the viewers why Meta's algorithm that pushes harmful content to children can't be rewritten by Meta so that it doesn't?"
Clegg left Meta earlier this year.
I believe he has a book out soon about how to save the internet.
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
That would be a good topic for a Nick Clegg interview.
"Could you explain to the viewers why Meta's algorithm that pushes harmful content to children can't be rewritten by Meta so that it doesn't?"
Clegg left Meta earlier this year.
And? He took a lot of money from them in the years he was employed by them to obstruct measures to stop them pushing harmful content.
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
That would be a good topic for a Nick Clegg interview.
"Could you explain to the viewers why Meta's algorithm that pushes harmful content to children can't be rewritten by Meta so that it doesn't?"
Clegg left Meta earlier this year.
And? He took a lot of money from them in the years he was employed by them to obstruct measures to stop them pushing harmful content.
An actual thing that could be done is banning algorithms that go beyond -
Unlike Jenrick, Katie Lam looks comfortable in front of the camera. Ironically, the camera operator and director seem a bit dicey but we'd need @Roger to give his professional opinion.
Politically, what is she playing at? Any would-be future leader needs to attract support from all wings of the party and to express a vision of Conservatism for the middle third of the 21st Century. With Cleverly rumoured to be shooting for London Mayor, there is space on that side of the park.
The world - and the UK - is swinging firmly right. By 2028 this may well be a centrist stance and @williamglenn will be moderating PB
So this is sensible positioning
I do think she’d be a good choice for leader. Young, articulate, bold, not lightweight like Kemi. Kind of a Tory Katie Forbes
Cleverly would do nothing (he should try for mayor) and Stride would be a pathetic disaster sealing their doom
Jenrick or Lam
The lurch Right in response to stagnating living standards is indeed the Big Picture. It's disappointing. A significant chunk of the working classes in the West have decided to blame Immigrants. This is what is powering the Populist Right. There are other factors in the mix but xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment is the essential fuel. If people were instead to blame their woes on the inequitable distribution of wealth baked into capitalism the lurch would be more to the Left. The mission of the (up to now) underperforming wing of Populism (the Left variety) is to make this happen. We shouldn't rule it out. These are volatile times. Change can come quickly and left-field (pun intended) things can happen. Eg just as Donald Trump's win turbo'd the Populist Right globally, a backlash against it (which has to be quite likely) could do the same for the Left. You and ilk will be less bouncy then.
The median voter in much of the West wants to tax the rich and large corporations more and send many of the immigrants back, hence Corbyn and Farage, Le Pen and Melenchon, Trump and Sanders, Linke and the AfD have all made gains
In the West populism with a strong nativist component (us v them) seems to be an easier sell than one without. This is why it's hard for the Left to make a success of it. They shy away from that sort of thing. Their 'us v them' is workers v the capitalist boss class, an economic battleline. That doesn't resonate with people in the way that 'us' v immigrants does.
White Workers of the West unite! You have nothing to lose but your Muslim Asylum Seekers!
It doesn't swell my heart but it's closer to reality than the original.
Unlike Jenrick, Katie Lam looks comfortable in front of the camera. Ironically, the camera operator and director seem a bit dicey but we'd need @Roger to give his professional opinion.
Politically, what is she playing at? Any would-be future leader needs to attract support from all wings of the party and to express a vision of Conservatism for the middle third of the 21st Century. With Cleverly rumoured to be shooting for London Mayor, there is space on that side of the park.
The world - and the UK - is swinging firmly right. By 2028 this may well be a centrist stance and @williamglenn will be moderating PB
So this is sensible positioning
I do think she’d be a good choice for leader. Young, articulate, bold, not lightweight like Kemi. Kind of a Tory Katie Forbes
Cleverly would do nothing (he should try for mayor) and Stride would be a pathetic disaster sealing their doom
Jenrick or Lam
The lurch Right in response to stagnating living standards is indeed the Big Picture. It's disappointing. A significant chunk of the working classes in the West have decided to blame Immigrants. This is what is powering the Populist Right. There are other factors in the mix but xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment is the essential fuel. If people were instead to blame their woes on the inequitable distribution of wealth baked into capitalism the lurch would be more to the Left. The mission of the (up to now) underperforming wing of Populism (the Left variety) is to make this happen. We shouldn't rule it out. These are volatile times. Change can come quickly and left-field (pun intended) things can happen. Eg just as Donald Trump's win turbo'd the Populist Right globally, a backlash against it (which has to be quite likely) could do the same for the Left. You and ilk will be less bouncy then.
The median voter in much of the West wants to tax the rich and large corporations more and send many of the immigrants back, hence Corbyn and Farage, Le Pen and Melenchon, Trump and Sanders, Linke and the AfD have all made gains
In the West populism with a strong nativist component (us v them) seems to be an easier sell than one without. This is why it's hard for the Left to make a success of it. They shy away from that sort of thing. Their 'us v them' is workers v the capitalist boss class, an economic battleline. That doesn't resonate with people in the way that 'us' v immigrants does.
White Workers of the West unite! You have nothing to lose but your Muslim Asylum Seekers!
It doesn't swell my heart but it's closer to reality than the original.
Which is, in turn, a reaction to language.
I find it interesting that progressives talk in terms of things like “micro-aggressions” but when it comes to taking to the errrr… natives, they don’t think in the same terms.
What “the natives” see is that immigration has been used for wage suppression, and in a strange alliance, supported by chunks of the traditional left.
“There is no such thing as x culture and it’s evil anyway”
I'm not arguing that unfettered mass immigration ad infinitum is either good or sustainable. I'm just trying to describe what's going on as I see it. In particular why it's the Right not the Left who are profiting from the disillusionment with mainstream politics and consequent surge in what we're calling "populism". It needs a fearful xenophobic angle to succeed and the Right are better at talking to and exploiting that impulse.
I’m saying that the way to deal with such “populism” is to create a positive message/path
Attlee & Co. said there was plenty wrong with the country. But they self evidently loved the country and its people.
“You are shit. Your culture is both non-existent and shit. These other people - all of their culture is awesome and we like them. Even the bits of their culture which are the same as the bits of your non-existent culture. Which we hate.”
It’s not a message that inspires.
Who is saying that? I hear a lot more hating on British culture, especially working class culture, from the right than the left.
They hate different bits.
Indeed
Some don’t hear it for the same reason that fish don’t notice water.
I think it was after Gove added some positive civics stuff the curriculum that Yasmin Alibhai-Brown wrote column that was essentially - “Am I to be forced to *like* this country?”
To me it’s pretty simple - it’s part of the maintenance of liberal democracy. You need to promote a positive vision of the country. If you don’t, you get tribalism. And everyone will invent their own identities.
Do you think the wannabe Muslim Party types are selling introspection and self doubt to their voters?
I agree. Negativity feeds populism. If we're going that route I'd like to see a Left version prevailing, or at least being influential, but I'd much prefer to stick with mainstream politics. That's why you won't find me partaking in "it's all gone to shit" hysteria.
Which misses the point.
Churchill governed *starting* from “it’s all gone to shit”
Arguably Attlee did as well. Maybe Thatcher as well.
What they were utterly clear on was having a vision and a set of principles to get from A to B.
“It’s all shit. What we need to do is X. This will take time and effort. We will do this because we want things to be better for the country and the people in it. Whom we like.”
On topic, I agree that 1.3% approval isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, particularly when coupled with 95.7% disapproval.
But there might be a ray of hope for her. if the 1.3% are absolutely fanatically in favour, while the 95.7% are extremely mild in their disapproval, or like the alternatives even less, surely she MIGHT be OK at the next election?
Reform are ahead but not massively so, 29% would be the lowest voteshare for a general election winning party since universal suffrage.
So they are still mainly a party of protest rather than having massive enthusiasm for Farage, if Labour can squeeze back the Greens and LDs and the Tories can squeeze back Reform still all to play for
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
That would be a good topic for a Nick Clegg interview.
"Could you explain to the viewers why Meta's algorithm that pushes harmful content to children can't be rewritten by Meta so that it doesn't?"
Clegg left Meta earlier this year.
I believe he has a book out soon about how to save the internet.
It appears from the blurb quite critical of Big Tech. I look forward to reading it.
Seems rather rude to take that $100m+ he was paid by them only to turn around and kick'em right in the bollocks on the way out the door.
It will be interesting to see what he does say in the book. I think it's a good thing if someone who was in Clegg's position can reflect on what Big Tech has done. Whether he will have done so frankly, I don't know yet.
On topic, I agree that 1.3% approval isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, particularly when coupled with 95.7% disapproval.
But there might be a ray of hope for her. if the 1.3% are absolutely fanatically in favour, while the 95.7% are extremely mild in their disapproval, or like the alternatives even less, surely she MIGHT be OK at the next election?
She's clinging to a hypothetical poll that showed she would beat Jenrick if he advocated nuclear annihilation for the entire planet 51-49
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
Labour need a Reform/Tory party split, not Reform sending the Tories into oblivion.
Reform are ahead but not massively so, 29% would be the lowest voteshare for a general election winning party since universal suffrage.
So they are still mainly a party of protest rather than having massive enthusiasm for Farage, if Labour can squeeze back the Greens and LDs and the Tories can squeeze back Reform still all to play for
FPTP simply doesn't make sense when no party can manage above 30%. For most of my life, polling 29% in the UK meant you were the losing party.
The BBCs Sarah Montague pushing Mark Malloch- Brown on whether Starmer and Lammy should be tried at the Hague for Gazan war crimes.
Malloch-Brown thinks it is not impossible but very highly unlikely.
What on earth have British politicians to do with a war between Palestine/Gaza and Israel?
Up there with the new idiot presenter of the Today programme questioning a minister a few weeks ago why we were not banning the sale of jet trainer aircraft to Israel as they would be able to train pilots who could drop bombs on Gaza.
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
Labour need a Reform/Tory party split, not Reform sending the Tories into oblivion.
As long as we retain FPTP certainly
We are more likely to rejoin the EU than ditch FPTP. Ditching FPTP before the next election is sub 1% chance.
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
Correct the Reform core vote and their wealthy donors are very anti OSA, the ex Labour and ex Boris voters in the redwall now backing Farage are much more authoritarian and pro OSA
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
Given that every political figure who has stuck their head over the parapet so far has instantly been accused of being on the side of paedophiles & abusers, a certain amount of grace time whilst people work out the right line to take is understandable.
But the Liberal Democrats need to decide whether they’re Liberal or not, frankly. This bill is, as it’s opponents have consistently pointed out, fundamentally illiberal.
That's like saying asking for ID before entering a bar is illiberal.
I think it is fair to ask the LDs to more clearly define what the point of them is and what they stand for. Beyond winning seats I am unsure.
Reform are ahead but not massively so, 29% would be the lowest voteshare for a general election winning party since universal suffrage.
So they are still mainly a party of protest rather than having massive enthusiasm for Farage, if Labour can squeeze back the Greens and LDs and the Tories can squeeze back Reform still all to play for
The result of the 2024 election was closer than any poll since October 2022 had shown with Labour winning on a lower share than any poll had them on since December 2021. There's a lot of water to go under the bridge yet!
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
Labour need a Reform/Tory party split, not Reform sending the Tories into oblivion.
As long as we retain FPTP certainly
We are more likely to rejoin the EU than ditch FPTP. Ditching FPTP before the next election is sub 1% chance.
Probably true, but nonetheless FPTP definitely breaks on these kinds of numbers.
What's the last national FPTP election anywhere in the world were the largest party was on ~29%? That's not happened lately in other notable FTPT-using countries like the US, Canada and India. Probably PNG.
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
Labour need a Reform/Tory party split, not Reform sending the Tories into oblivion.
As long as we retain FPTP certainly
We are more likely to rejoin the EU than ditch FPTP. Ditching FPTP before the next election is sub 1% chance.
Probably true, but nonetheless FPTP definitely breaks on these kinds of numbers.
What's the last national FPTP election anywhere in the world were the largest party was on ~29%? That's not happened lately in other notable FTPT-using countries like the US, Canada and India. Probably PNG.
Given most of our governance is broken, why should the voting system work?
I've heard that, sometimes, kids get hurt by cars.
The sooner we ban these vile child-slaying Machines of Death the better.
Anyone who disagrees thinks Anakin Skywalker should be in charge of every nursery in the country.
Though we do regulate and restrict the use of cars quite a lot.
Whatever is wrong with the OSA, saying " we just have to live with this" doesn't entirely wash, either. A fence doesn't have to be perfect to be useful.
There is a risk though that with silly laws that are unenforceable it brings the law into disrepute.
And that isn't a great thing.
THere have been some strange laws in the past. The Profane Oaths Act of 1745 springs to mind (not actually repealed until 1967, but routinely ignored). Or the law that all newspapers must be printed on specific paper.
But do we really want to give teenagers the idea that all laws are made by idiots and are completely impossible to enforce? We're having enough trouble with that already (see e-bikes).
There are numerous other ways this could have been achieved in a much less draconian and much more effective way. Enhanced parental controls might be one. Notification to ISPs of people under 18 at an given address might be another.
It's a sledgehammer to try and crush a large nut, but unfortunately the ground underneath is very soft so the nut just gets pushed into it and becomes harder to break.
Wasn't the newspaper law that the paper be taxed specifically to help increase the cost of the final newspaper? Together with the tax on the newspaper itself once printed (albeit mitigated by "free" postage by RM), that had the entirely rational justification (for the ruling class) of keeping the poor dumb, ignorant, and if not happy then at least less likely to riot/rebel, [edit] by making newspapers too expensive for easy access. I had a look once and 1850s newspapers were costing something like a fiver each in modern terms (very, very roughly, and dependign obviously on social class for one's comparator).
No - it was to ensure that no newspaper could operate without government approval. If they didn’t like what they were printing, they would refuse to sell them stamped paper and that was that.
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
Labour need a Reform/Tory party split, not Reform sending the Tories into oblivion.
As long as we retain FPTP certainly
We are more likely to rejoin the EU than ditch FPTP. Ditching FPTP before the next election is sub 1% chance.
Pre GE yes, if Labour lose their majority but retain power with LD support then PR may be on the table
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
That would be a good topic for a Nick Clegg interview.
"Could you explain to the viewers why Meta's algorithm that pushes harmful content to children can't be rewritten by Meta so that it doesn't?"
Clegg left Meta earlier this year.
I believe he has a book out soon about how to save the internet.
For various reasons I haven't posted much these last 2 days but have scanned the thread, and with the greatest respect @HYUFD hasn't a clue on the subject of the use of the Internet by children
Our son is head of IT at a local school, and has three children, so knows more than many on both the use in schools of smartphones and of course in his family
He has installed controls on the time his children can spend on line, but even with restrictions his children still beg borrow and steal online time
Of course in school peer pressure and knowledge expands the sites his children [11 and 13] access and our son is in favour of a ban on smartphone use in school with no exceptions
I watched Peter Kyle this morning allegation about Farage and Saville, and as much as I am not a Farage fan what a ridiculous thing for Kyle to say when the OSA needs genuine and serious discussion
I did wonder about children using VPN, because unless they are already in use they could not upload the software without payment
I also am not sure what happens if a child uses their parents e mail address to verify their age. Does the site confirm the verification back to the e mail address or is it just taken as the verification
We are living in extraordinary times but @HYUFD is in for an eye watering experience in due course if he has his own children and I think Kyle may well have to retract his allegation
Kyle is considering banning social media use by under 16s not just in schools but anywhere
And King Cnut considered a ban on the tide coming in.
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
Labour need a Reform/Tory party split, not Reform sending the Tories into oblivion.
As long as we retain FPTP certainly
We are more likely to rejoin the EU than ditch FPTP. Ditching FPTP before the next election is sub 1% chance.
Probably true, but nonetheless FPTP definitely breaks on these kinds of numbers.
What's the last national FPTP election anywhere in the world were the largest party was on ~29%? That's not happened lately in other notable FTPT-using countries like the US, Canada and India. Probably PNG.
Given most of our governance is broken, why should the voting system work?
The voting system does work. FPTP delivered an unambiguous choice of government. It is the party system that is breaking down, not the voting system.
Unlike Jenrick, Katie Lam looks comfortable in front of the camera. Ironically, the camera operator and director seem a bit dicey but we'd need @Roger to give his professional opinion.
Politically, what is she playing at? Any would-be future leader needs to attract support from all wings of the party and to express a vision of Conservatism for the middle third of the 21st Century. With Cleverly rumoured to be shooting for London Mayor, there is space on that side of the park.
The world - and the UK - is swinging firmly right. By 2028 this may well be a centrist stance and @williamglenn will be moderating PB
So this is sensible positioning
I do think she’d be a good choice for leader. Young, articulate, bold, not lightweight like Kemi. Kind of a Tory Katie Forbes
Cleverly would do nothing (he should try for mayor) and Stride would be a pathetic disaster sealing their doom
Jenrick or Lam
The lurch Right in response to stagnating living standards is indeed the Big Picture. It's disappointing. A significant chunk of the working classes in the West have decided to blame Immigrants. This is what is powering the Populist Right. There are other factors in the mix but xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment is the essential fuel. If people were instead to blame their woes on the inequitable distribution of wealth baked into capitalism the lurch would be more to the Left. The mission of the (up to now) underperforming wing of Populism (the Left variety) is to make this happen. We shouldn't rule it out. These are volatile times. Change can come quickly and left-field (pun intended) things can happen. Eg just as Donald Trump's win turbo'd the Populist Right globally, a backlash against it (which has to be quite likely) could do the same for the Left. You and ilk will be less bouncy then.
The median voter in much of the West wants to tax the rich and large corporations more and send many of the immigrants back, hence Corbyn and Farage, Le Pen and Melenchon, Trump and Sanders, Linke and the AfD have all made gains
In the West populism with a strong nativist component (us v them) seems to be an easier sell than one without. This is why it's hard for the Left to make a success of it. They shy away from that sort of thing. Their 'us v them' is workers v the capitalist boss class, an economic battleline. That doesn't resonate with people in the way that 'us' v immigrants does.
White Workers of the West unite! You have nothing to lose but your Muslim Asylum Seekers!
It doesn't swell my heart but it's closer to reality than the original.
Unlike Jenrick, Katie Lam looks comfortable in front of the camera. Ironically, the camera operator and director seem a bit dicey but we'd need @Roger to give his professional opinion.
Politically, what is she playing at? Any would-be future leader needs to attract support from all wings of the party and to express a vision of Conservatism for the middle third of the 21st Century. With Cleverly rumoured to be shooting for London Mayor, there is space on that side of the park.
The world - and the UK - is swinging firmly right. By 2028 this may well be a centrist stance and @williamglenn will be moderating PB
So this is sensible positioning
I do think she’d be a good choice for leader. Young, articulate, bold, not lightweight like Kemi. Kind of a Tory Katie Forbes
Cleverly would do nothing (he should try for mayor) and Stride would be a pathetic disaster sealing their doom
Jenrick or Lam
The lurch Right in response to stagnating living standards is indeed the Big Picture. It's disappointing. A significant chunk of the working classes in the West have decided to blame Immigrants. This is what is powering the Populist Right. There are other factors in the mix but xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment is the essential fuel. If people were instead to blame their woes on the inequitable distribution of wealth baked into capitalism the lurch would be more to the Left. The mission of the (up to now) underperforming wing of Populism (the Left variety) is to make this happen. We shouldn't rule it out. These are volatile times. Change can come quickly and left-field (pun intended) things can happen. Eg just as Donald Trump's win turbo'd the Populist Right globally, a backlash against it (which has to be quite likely) could do the same for the Left. You and ilk will be less bouncy then.
The median voter in much of the West wants to tax the rich and large corporations more and send many of the immigrants back, hence Corbyn and Farage, Le Pen and Melenchon, Trump and Sanders, Linke and the AfD have all made gains
In the West populism with a strong nativist component (us v them) seems to be an easier sell than one without. This is why it's hard for the Left to make a success of it. They shy away from that sort of thing. Their 'us v them' is workers v the capitalist boss class, an economic battleline. That doesn't resonate with people in the way that 'us' v immigrants does.
White Workers of the West unite! You have nothing to lose but your Muslim Asylum Seekers!
It doesn't swell my heart but it's closer to reality than the original.
Which is, in turn, a reaction to language.
I find it interesting that progressives talk in terms of things like “micro-aggressions” but when it comes to taking to the errrr… natives, they don’t think in the same terms.
What “the natives” see is that immigration has been used for wage suppression, and in a strange alliance, supported by chunks of the traditional left.
“There is no such thing as x culture and it’s evil anyway”
I'm not arguing that unfettered mass immigration ad infinitum is either good or sustainable. I'm just trying to describe what's going on as I see it. In particular why it's the Right not the Left who are profiting from the disillusionment with mainstream politics and consequent surge in what we're calling "populism". It needs a fearful xenophobic angle to succeed and the Right are better at talking to and exploiting that impulse.
I’m saying that the way to deal with such “populism” is to create a positive message/path
Attlee & Co. said there was plenty wrong with the country. But they self evidently loved the country and its people.
“You are shit. Your culture is both non-existent and shit. These other people - all of their culture is awesome and we like them. Even the bits of their culture which are the same as the bits of your non-existent culture. Which we hate.”
It’s not a message that inspires.
Who is saying that? I hear a lot more hating on British culture, especially working class culture, from the right than the left.
They hate different bits.
Indeed
Some don’t hear it for the same reason that fish don’t notice water.
I think it was after Gove added some positive civics stuff the curriculum that Yasmin Alibhai-Brown wrote column that was essentially - “Am I to be forced to *like* this country?”
To me it’s pretty simple - it’s part of the maintenance of liberal democracy. You need to promote a positive vision of the country. If you don’t, you get tribalism. And everyone will invent their own identities.
Do you think the wannabe Muslim Party types are selling introspection and self doubt to their voters?
I agree. Negativity feeds populism. If we're going that route I'd like to see a Left version prevailing, or at least being influential, but I'd much prefer to stick with mainstream politics. That's why you won't find me partaking in "it's all gone to shit" hysteria.
Which misses the point.
Churchill governed *starting* from “it’s all gone to shit”
Arguably Attlee did as well. Maybe Thatcher as well.
What they were utterly clear on was having a vision and a set of principles to get from A to B.
“It’s all shit. What we need to do is X. This will take time and effort. We will do this because we want things to be better for the country and the people in it. Whom we like.”
An evolution of the point, is what it was.
Specifically that negativity of both the 'unrealistic expectations' and 'wildly exaggerated or imagined malaise' variety feeds populism, which is why populists go in for it and why people who are anti-populist should refrain and ideally pushback.
A thought-through diagnosis of what ails us and a solid plan to improve things, communicated with skill and passion, is a different matter. You can count me in for that - so long as I agree with it of course.
For various reasons I haven't posted much these last 2 days but have scanned the thread, and with the greatest respect @HYUFD hasn't a clue on the subject of the use of the Internet by children
Our son is head of IT at a local school, and has three children, so knows more than many on both the use in schools of smartphones and of course in his family
He has installed controls on the time his children can spend on line, but even with restrictions his children still beg borrow and steal online time
Of course in school peer pressure and knowledge expands the sites his children [11 and 13] access and our son is in favour of a ban on smartphone use in school with no exceptions
I watched Peter Kyle this morning allegation about Farage and Saville, and as much as I am not a Farage fan what a ridiculous thing for Kyle to say when the OSA needs genuine and serious discussion
I did wonder about children using VPN, because unless they are already in use they could not upload the software without payment
I also am not sure what happens if a child uses their parents e mail address to verify their age. Does the site confirm the verification back to the e mail address or is it just taken as the verification
We are living in extraordinary times but @HYUFD is in for an eye watering experience in due course if he has his own children and I think Kyle may well have to retract his allegation
Kyle is considering banning social media use by under 16s not just in schools but anywhere
And King Cnut considered a ban on the tide coming in.
#pbpedantry
He didn't. It was an apocryphal story told later, and the point of the story was that Cnut was making the point that he couldn't stop the tides to demonstrate humility before God.
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
Labour need a Reform/Tory party split, not Reform sending the Tories into oblivion.
As long as we retain FPTP certainly
We are more likely to rejoin the EU than ditch FPTP. Ditching FPTP before the next election is sub 1% chance.
Pre GE yes, if Labour lose their majority but retain power with LD support then PR may be on the table
On the table but not deliverable.
For it to be deliverable you need:
Two, maybe three, successive elections without a viable govt and deadlock The last election returning enough MPs who have backed it in their manifestos to make it do-able without a referendum
It is an interesting pb talking point but is very unlikely.
Reform are ahead but not massively so, 29% would be the lowest voteshare for a general election winning party since universal suffrage.
So they are still mainly a party of protest rather than having massive enthusiasm for Farage, if Labour can squeeze back the Greens and LDs and the Tories can squeeze back Reform still all to play for
What if Labour lose another 5% to the fruit and nuts?
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
Labour need a Reform/Tory party split, not Reform sending the Tories into oblivion.
As long as we retain FPTP certainly
We are more likely to rejoin the EU than ditch FPTP. Ditching FPTP before the next election is sub 1% chance.
Probably true, but nonetheless FPTP definitely breaks on these kinds of numbers.
What's the last national FPTP election anywhere in the world were the largest party was on ~29%? That's not happened lately in other notable FTPT-using countries like the US, Canada and India. Probably PNG.
Given most of our governance is broken, why should the voting system work?
The voting system does work. FPTP delivered an unambiguous choice of government. It is the party system that is breaking down, not the voting system.
It's easy to have a voting system that delivers an unambiguous choice of government. (Russia has one of those, for example.) You also want that unambiguous choice of government to go to a party that represents the views of the demos. Is that the case if the party only gets 29% of the vote?
The BBCs Sarah Montague pushing Mark Malloch- Brown on whether Starmer and Lammy should be tried at the Hague for Gazan war crimes.
Malloch-Brown thinks it is not impossible but very highly unlikely.
What on earth have British politicians to do with a war between Palestine/Gaza and Israel?
There is an obligation under the Genocide Convention not only to not do it, but also to pursue those who conduct it. If you think what is happening matches the definition under the convention then it all becomes a bit awkward.
The BBCs Sarah Montague pushing Mark Malloch- Brown on whether Starmer and Lammy should be tried at the Hague for Gazan war crimes.
Malloch-Brown thinks it is not impossible but very highly unlikely.
What on earth have British politicians to do with a war between Palestine/Gaza and Israel?
There is an obligation under the Genocide Convention not only to not do it, but also to pursue those who conduct it. If you think what is happening matches the definition under the convention then it all becomes a bit awkward.
There are obvious issues of practicality. Nobody in this country is going to face prosecution, because they failed to prevent the massacre of Tutsis in 1994, or the mass expulsion of Armenians from Nagorno Karabakh in 2023.
The offence of abetting genocide applies to the kind of situation which held Serbia guilty in 2007, because their government did nothing to stop armed militias committing acts of genocide on territory which they occupied.
We will have 300 of these in Parliament in a few years.
The only thing that Cameron wrong in his description of "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" is that he didn't anticipate them being quite so out of the closet.
Reform are ahead but not massively so, 29% would be the lowest voteshare for a general election winning party since universal suffrage.
So they are still mainly a party of protest rather than having massive enthusiasm for Farage, if Labour can squeeze back the Greens and LDs and the Tories can squeeze back Reform still all to play for
What if Labour lose another 5% to the fruit and nuts?
They would need to squeeze the LDs harder in Labour v Reform marginals to compensate, or ditch Starmer for Rayner and push things like a wealth tax to squeeze back Corbyn and his new party
The BBCs Sarah Montague pushing Mark Malloch- Brown on whether Starmer and Lammy should be tried at the Hague for Gazan war crimes.
Malloch-Brown thinks it is not impossible but very highly unlikely.
What on earth have British politicians to do with a war between Palestine/Gaza and Israel?
There is an obligation under the Genocide Convention not only to not do it, but also to pursue those who conduct it. If you think what is happening matches the definition under the convention then it all becomes a bit awkward.
There are obvious issues of practicality. Nobody in this country is going to face prosecution, because they failed to prevent the massacre of Tutsis in 1994, or the mass expulsion of Armenians from Nagorno Karabakh in 2023.
The offence of abetting genocide applies to the kind of situation which held Serbia guilty in 2007, because their government did nothing to stop armed militias committing acts of genocide on territory which they occupied.
The BBCs Sarah Montague pushing Mark Malloch- Brown on whether Starmer and Lammy should be tried at the Hague for Gazan war crimes.
Malloch-Brown thinks it is not impossible but very highly unlikely.
What on earth have British politicians to do with a war between Palestine/Gaza and Israel?
There is an obligation under the Genocide Convention not only to not do it, but also to pursue those who conduct it. If you think what is happening matches the definition under the convention then it all becomes a bit awkward.
There are obvious issues of practicality. Nobody in this country is going to face prosecution, because they failed to prevent the massacre of Tutsis in 1994, or the mass expulsion of Armenians from Nagorno Karabakh in 2023.
The offence of abetting genocide applies to the kind of situation which held Serbia guilty in 2007, because their government did nothing to stop armed militias committing acts of genocide on territory which they occupied.
IIRC, there is already precedent on the issue, in various trials at The Hague and elsewhere. A moderately common politico/legal tactic has been “If I am guilty, then x, y and z are guilty. Just for being bystanders. Since everyone is guilty, no one is.”
The courts, as I understand it, tend to regard such grandstanding to spread blame as invalid.
The BBCs Sarah Montague pushing Mark Malloch- Brown on whether Starmer and Lammy should be tried at the Hague for Gazan war crimes.
Malloch-Brown thinks it is not impossible but very highly unlikely.
Since neither is guilty of war crimes in Gaza, it’s a pretty stupid line of questioning.
Netanyahu retiring a free man whilst David Lammy languishes in a prison cell is certainly not my idea of justice for Gaza.
There’s this weird belief that a British minister is like a Roman proconsul, who can tell a barbarian king to back off, or face the consequences.
Indeed, I'm not a huge fan of either Lammy or Starmer, yet if either were prosecuted or an attempt to prosecute them for what's happening in Gaza occurred it would be time to exit these conventions as it's quite clearly idiotic.
Labour do appear to be going all in on the assault on Big Nige. They clearly think there's an angle to pursue here. Im dubious. Although Farage is hardly some untouchable beloved doyenne of the political scene inviting clutched pearls at the mere thought of mud thrown his way. Popcorn on the sidelines I reckon and enjoy the show
The theory is probably sound. The Reform elite is libertarian, at least for rich men wanting to do whatever they want. And the right wing datasphere really doesn't want to be restricted. At all.
However, a lot of Reform voters are probably pretty keen on this- computers are evil and you have to protect the kiddies.
Whether the wedge can be made to stick is another matter. At the moment, all that can be said is that all the right people are annoyed.
I thought Labour were going to be different? Instead seems like a retread of Boris smeary attack on Starmer that they were rightly very upset about.
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, posts, etc. The divide I think is the "very online" vs those who aren't rather than left vs right.
Kyle might be slightly more clever than he is given credit for. Kyle is being attacked by the porn vpn mob, but sfaict he is criticising Farage about social media, saying that is where bad men groom kids. But imo Labour would do better ignoring Farage completely and let him get on with his job of breaking the Conservative Party.
Labour need a Reform/Tory party split, not Reform sending the Tories into oblivion.
As long as we retain FPTP certainly
We are more likely to rejoin the EU than ditch FPTP. Ditching FPTP before the next election is sub 1% chance.
Pre GE yes, if Labour lose their majority but retain power with LD support then PR may be on the table
On the table but not deliverable.
For it to be deliverable you need:
Two, maybe three, successive elections without a viable govt and deadlock The last election returning enough MPs who have backed it in their manifestos to make it do-able without a referendum
It is an interesting pb talking point but is very unlikely.
If we did get PR, most likely with some form of constituency vote and then PR list top up it would radically change our government system.
Most elections would end up coalitions or confidence and supply deals between the Tories and Reform or Labour and the Greens and perhaps Corbyn's block with the LDs usually backing the latter but sometimes occasionally doing deals with the Tories again if they had the numbers.
Single party majority government would be a thing for the history books
The BBCs Sarah Montague pushing Mark Malloch- Brown on whether Starmer and Lammy should be tried at the Hague for Gazan war crimes.
Malloch-Brown thinks it is not impossible but very highly unlikely.
What on earth have British politicians to do with a war between Palestine/Gaza and Israel?
There is an obligation under the Genocide Convention not only to not do it, but also to pursue those who conduct it. If you think what is happening matches the definition under the convention then it all becomes a bit awkward.
There are obvious issues of practicality. Nobody in this country is going to face prosecution, because they failed to prevent the massacre of Tutsis in 1994, or the mass expulsion of Armenians from Nagorno Karabakh in 2023.
The offence of abetting genocide applies to the kind of situation which held Serbia guilty in 2007, because their government did nothing to stop armed militias committing acts of genocide on territory which they occupied.
Sure, but I guess they could kick up a bit of a fuss, or perhaps stop providing the weapons or the surveillance flights, or maybe not arrest protestors for holding signs.
The BBCs Sarah Montague pushing Mark Malloch- Brown on whether Starmer and Lammy should be tried at the Hague for Gazan war crimes.
Malloch-Brown thinks it is not impossible but very highly unlikely.
Since neither is guilty of war crimes in Gaza, it’s a pretty stupid line of questioning.
Netanyahu retiring a free man whilst David Lammy languishes in a prison cell is certainly not my idea of justice for Gaza.
There’s this weird belief that a British minister is like a Roman proconsul, who can tell a barbarian king to back off, or face the consequences.
Indeed, I'm not a huge fan of either Lammy or Starmer, yet if either were prosecuted or an attempt to prosecute them for what's happening in Gaza occurred it would be time to exit these conventions as it's quite clearly idiotic.
I think these conventions are a function of geopolitical hard power.
They work when the West and its values are Top Dog, otherwise they become subject to legal subterfuge as part of State-on-State action and about as straight as FIFA.
The BBCs Sarah Montague pushing Mark Malloch- Brown on whether Starmer and Lammy should be tried at the Hague for Gazan war crimes.
Malloch-Brown thinks it is not impossible but very highly unlikely.
Since neither is guilty of war crimes in Gaza, it’s a pretty stupid line of questioning.
Netanyahu retiring a free man whilst David Lammy languishes in a prison cell is certainly not my idea of justice for Gaza.
There’s this weird belief that a British minister is like a Roman proconsul, who can tell a barbarian king to back off, or face the consequences.
Indeed, I'm not a huge fan of either Lammy or Starmer, yet if either were prosecuted or an attempt to prosecute them for what's happening in Gaza occurred it would be time to exit these conventions as it's quite clearly idiotic.
Presumably Malthouse wouldn't have cautioned Lammy in the HoC if he didn't believe such a case was potentially prosecutable.
For various reasons I haven't posted much these last 2 days but have scanned the thread, and with the greatest respect @HYUFD hasn't a clue on the subject of the use of the Internet by children
Our son is head of IT at a local school, and has three children, so knows more than many on both the use in schools of smartphones and of course in his family
He has installed controls on the time his children can spend on line, but even with restrictions his children still beg borrow and steal online time
Of course in school peer pressure and knowledge expands the sites his children [11 and 13] access and our son is in favour of a ban on smartphone use in school with no exceptions
I watched Peter Kyle this morning allegation about Farage and Saville, and as much as I am not a Farage fan what a ridiculous thing for Kyle to say when the OSA needs genuine and serious discussion
I did wonder about children using VPN, because unless they are already in use they could not upload the software without payment
I also am not sure what happens if a child uses their parents e mail address to verify their age. Does the site confirm the verification back to the e mail address or is it just taken as the verification
We are living in extraordinary times but @HYUFD is in for an eye watering experience in due course if he has his own children and I think Kyle may well have to retract his allegation
Kyle is considering banning social media use by under 16s not just in schools but anywhere
And King Cnut considered a ban on the tide coming in.
#pbpedantry
He didn't. It was an apocryphal story told later, and the point of the story was that Cnut was making the point that he couldn't stop the tides to demonstrate humility before God.
The story round here is that the apocryphal tide was the Trent Aegir, which is a little more dramatic than water lapping up the sand. Wouldn't like to stand in the way at new moon.
I wonder what the biggest source of unhappiness and misinformation on the internet is. Facebook?
A shame we can't just pull the plug on that and X. 80/20 rule and all that. Leave the small people alone.
On other matters, I found Trump's interventions at his press conference with Starmer offensive. By what right does he denigrate our Government and its legislation? It's not helped the anti-Government UK media such as GB News feed questions which they know will provoke a response to embarrass Starmer. It's an unfortunate trait which started with Obama's stupid intervention during the Referendum in 2016 (and arguably before that).
A visiting foreign leader has no place intervening in UK domestic policy. If it's a global question, yes, of course, but not about our Inheritance Tax legislation.
It's also for the people of London to decide whether Sadiq Khan is a good mayor, not Donald Trump and while I recognise it irks some on here Khan has beaten the Conservatives three times that's democracy and he won even when the Conservatives changed the electoral rules to try to defeat him (that failed because of the appalling candidate the London Conservatives chose).
However, to provide some balance, it's not Khan's place to carry out ludicrous anti-Trump publicity stunts - it's unnecessary and a waste of public money. When Trump as POTUS visits London, he's here as a guest and should be afforded that courtesy.
Plenty don't like Starmer and what he's doing but without belabouring the point he won a mandate at an election to govern and we will all have the opportunity to pass judgement on that in 2028 or 2029.
It would take a lot for me to agree with Starmer on almost anything right now. Criticism by Trump just might do it.
The BBCs Sarah Montague pushing Mark Malloch- Brown on whether Starmer and Lammy should be tried at the Hague for Gazan war crimes.
Malloch-Brown thinks it is not impossible but very highly unlikely.
Since neither is guilty of war crimes in Gaza, it’s a pretty stupid line of questioning.
Netanyahu retiring a free man whilst David Lammy languishes in a prison cell is certainly not my idea of justice for Gaza.
There’s this weird belief that a British minister is like a Roman proconsul, who can tell a barbarian king to back off, or face the consequences.
Admiral Sir William Christopher Pakenham was said to have gone ashore in full dress whites*, with a barge crew and an interpreter. Marched through a tribal war to one of the leaders.
“Tell him I’m here to stop his beastliness”
*several stories about Old Paks relate to his wearing full dress whites. The one for the Battle of Tsushima is especially good.
The BBCs Sarah Montague pushing Mark Malloch- Brown on whether Starmer and Lammy should be tried at the Hague for Gazan war crimes.
Malloch-Brown thinks it is not impossible but very highly unlikely.
What on earth have British politicians to do with a war between Palestine/Gaza and Israel?
There is an obligation under the Genocide Convention not only to not do it, but also to pursue those who conduct it. If you think what is happening matches the definition under the convention then it all becomes a bit awkward.
Fueled by fentanyl, the annual drug overdose death rate in the United States doubled between 2015 and 2023, going from 16 to 33 deaths per 100,000 people. But in February 2024, a “statistically significant” decrease occurred, and “the rate of decline more than doubled.”
Overdose death rates “entered a new wave of sustained deceleration in 2023 after 2 decades of increase,” researchers wrote. The decline “may reflect changes in drug markets, treatment access, harm reduction efforts, and population-level risk.”
I suspect that most of the decline has come from local efforts at "harm reduction", notably the wider use of narcan, but have not seen any data on the question.
Kemi has decided that the OSA she supported in the last government isn’t up to much .
The LDs have been awfully quiet on this. I know Barnesian linked to them being against it but Davey has been quiet. Ol' Nige leading the charge (Well Yusuf actually).
Are the Lib Dems primarily a liberal party or a "nice" party (Against Elon Musk and all that internet nastiness) ?
Given that every political figure who has stuck their head over the parapet so far has instantly been accused of being on the side of paedophiles & abusers, a certain amount of grace time whilst people work out the right line to take is understandable.
But the Liberal Democrats need to decide whether they’re Liberal or not, frankly. This bill is, as it’s opponents have consistently pointed out, fundamentally illiberal.
That's like saying asking for ID before entering a bar is illiberal.
I think it is fair to ask the LDs to more clearly define what the point of them is and what they stand for. Beyond winning seats I am unsure.
Comments
In terms of OSA, I have seen loads of people from left and right who are very much against it, as they start to see it impact various forums, social media, etc that they use. The divide I think is the "very online" and understand technology vs those who aren't, rather than left vs right.
https://x.com/BTP/status/1950158001832149464
Sun lounger at a 5* Hotel in Tenerife I would think is where they probably want to start.
Trying to make it a French-style presidential run-off where one on the ballot is radical populist right.
https://x.com/DiaperDiplomacy
I think (b) is manageable. But they’re struggling on (a) at the moment.
"Could you explain to the viewers why Meta's algorithm that pushes harmful content to children can't be rewritten by Meta so that it doesn't?"
No? Blimey, no wonder Leon is all of a tizzy.
But the Liberal Democrats need to decide whether they’re Liberal or not, frankly. This bill is, as it’s opponents have consistently pointed out, fundamentally illiberal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2dNEQiHUUo
If Labour do push this line, Farage could end up trying to push a more nuanced argument, which is definitely not the place he wants to be.
Some don’t hear it for the same reason that fish don’t notice water.
I think it was after Gove added some positive civics stuff the curriculum that Yasmin Alibhai-Brown wrote column that was essentially - “Am I to be forced to *like* this country?”
To me it’s pretty simple - it’s part of the maintenance of liberal democracy. You need to promote a positive vision of the country. If you don’t, you get tribalism. And everyone will invent their own identities.
Do you think the wannabe Muslim Party types are selling introspection and self doubt to their voters?
99% the former.
*See De Mendes
For a government polling 22%, it's not so easy.
Malloch-Brown thinks it is not impossible but very highly unlikely.
Thoughts and prayers with Leon
1) time ranking
2) most users visited
That would smash most of social media, of course.
@PolliticoUK
🚨 Westminster Voting Intention:
➡️ REF: 29% (+2)
🌹 LAB: 22% (-1)
🌳 CON: 17% (=)
🔶 LDEM: 14% (-1)
🟢 GRN: 11% (=)"
https://x.com/PolliticoUK/status/1950151038339633174
Baxter
Ref 347
Lab 139
LD 67
Con 35
SNP 28
https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/463182/how-to-save-the-internet-by-clegg-nick/9781847928597
It appears from the blurb quite critical of Big Tech. I look forward to reading it.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/tommy-robinson-video-unconscious-man-st-pancras-station-btp-london-b1240472.html
The Ref UK candidate David Jarvis seems to be quite exotic. Barnstaple is, I think, part of the "South Coast Bible Belt".
Churchill governed *starting* from “it’s all gone to shit”
Arguably Attlee did as well. Maybe Thatcher as well.
What they were utterly clear on was having a vision and a set of principles to get from A to B.
“It’s all shit. What we need to do is X. This will take time and effort. We will do this because we want things to be better for the country and the people in it. Whom we like.”
But there might be a ray of hope for her. if the 1.3% are absolutely fanatically in favour, while the 95.7% are extremely mild in their disapproval, or like the alternatives even less, surely she MIGHT be OK at the next election?
So they are still mainly a party of protest rather than having massive enthusiasm for Farage, if Labour can squeeze back the Greens and LDs and the Tories can squeeze back Reform still all to play for
What's the last national FPTP election anywhere in the world were the largest party was on ~29%? That's not happened lately in other notable FTPT-using countries like the US, Canada and India. Probably PNG.
Specifically that negativity of both the 'unrealistic expectations' and 'wildly exaggerated or imagined malaise' variety feeds populism, which is why populists go in for it and why people who are anti-populist should refrain and ideally pushback.
A thought-through diagnosis of what ails us and a solid plan to improve things, communicated with skill and passion, is a different matter. You can count me in for that - so long as I agree with it of course.
https://hopenothate.org.uk/2025/07/22/meet-the-homophobic-conspiracy-theorist-and-the-tommy-robinson-fan-standing-for-reform-uk/
A lovely pair.
He didn't. It was an apocryphal story told later, and the point of the story was that Cnut was making the point that he couldn't stop the tides to demonstrate humility before God.
For it to be deliverable you need:
Two, maybe three, successive elections without a viable govt and deadlock
The last election returning enough MPs who have backed it in their manifestos to make it do-able without a referendum
It is an interesting pb talking point but is very unlikely.
Last week I watched James Anderson bowling.
Now I’m watching Kane Williamson batting.
The offence of abetting genocide applies to the kind of situation which held Serbia guilty in 2007, because their government did nothing to stop armed militias committing acts of genocide on territory which they occupied.
The only thing that Cameron wrong in his description of "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" is that he didn't anticipate them being quite so out of the closet.
The courts, as I understand it, tend to regard such grandstanding to spread blame as invalid.
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51504-do-britons-support-shifting-to-proportional-representation
If we did get PR, most likely with some form of constituency vote and then PR list top up it would radically change our government system.
Most elections would end up coalitions or confidence and supply deals between the Tories and Reform or Labour and the Greens and perhaps Corbyn's block with the LDs usually backing the latter but sometimes occasionally doing deals with the Tories again if they had the numbers.
Single party majority government would be a thing for the history books
The sequel to Brexit derangement syndrome.
They work when the West and its values are Top Dog, otherwise they become subject to legal subterfuge as part of State-on-State action and about as straight as FIFA.
I wonder what the biggest source of unhappiness and misinformation on the internet is. Facebook?
A shame we can't just pull the plug on that and X. 80/20 rule and all that. Leave the small people alone.
“Tell him I’m here to stop his beastliness”
*several stories about Old Paks relate to his wearing full dress whites. The one for the Battle of Tsushima is especially good.
I suspect that most of the decline has come from local efforts at "harm reduction", notably the wider use of narcan, but have not seen any data on the question.
https://www.libdems.org.uk/fileadmin/groups/2_Federal_Party/Documents/PolicyPapers/Manifesto_2024/For_a_Fair_Deal_-_Liberal_Democrat_Manifesto_2024.pdf