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  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,522
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nearly three thefts a minute are being reported by shops amid a growing shoplifting epidemic, official figures show.

    Shoplifting hit a record high of 530,643 offences reported to police in the year to March, a 20 per cent increase on the previous year’s total of 444,022.

    The rate of shoplifting is nearly double the rate two decades ago, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)

    This isn't a problem according to many on the left.
    Really? Who on the left says it isn't a problem?
    The left don't particularly like talking about it because they regard it as a classic right-wing / populist topic.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,583

    205-2 at close.

    Very good day for England, but disappointing neither opener managed to get their century. Thanks Leondarmus!

    225-2 surely?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,291
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nearly three thefts a minute are being reported by shops amid a growing shoplifting epidemic, official figures show.

    Shoplifting hit a record high of 530,643 offences reported to police in the year to March, a 20 per cent increase on the previous year’s total of 444,022.

    The rate of shoplifting is nearly double the rate two decades ago, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)

    This isn't a problem according to many on the left.
    Really? Who on the left says it isn't a problem?
    The left don't particularly like talking about it because they regard it as a classic right-wing / populist topic.
    So who on the left said it isn't a problem?

    You answered a question that I did not ask.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nearly three thefts a minute are being reported by shops amid a growing shoplifting epidemic, official figures show.

    Shoplifting hit a record high of 530,643 offences reported to police in the year to March, a 20 per cent increase on the previous year’s total of 444,022.

    The rate of shoplifting is nearly double the rate two decades ago, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)

    This isn't a problem according to many on the left.
    Really? Who on the left says it isn't a problem?
    The left don't particularly like talking about it because they regard it as a classic right-wing / populist topic.
    It was the Tories who stopped funding the police and courts, and failed to modernise either. And big business who have shifted from staffed tills you have to go through to automated checkouts that rely on the honesty of the customer instead to save a few quid.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,306
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Kemi should go full-on economics and insolvency, actually, because that's a chicken that could very easily home home to roost over the next 4 years.

    Only the Tories would then be the only ones who'd have credibility on it.

    Such a strategy might see her suddenly bounce up to 30%+ in a crisis.

    Problem for Kemi is that a lot of the mess can be pinned on Hunt who created the mess with his 4p reduction in National Insurance.

    Now it probably doesn't require much more than keeping Hunt and anyone else who can be blamed well away from the public gaze but it's something she needs to be aware of...
    No it's not, Labour pushed spending up by £60bn per year. If they hadn't done that and gone on a gigantic spending binge there would be a current budget surplus and our debt yields would be appreciably lower. Rachel Reeves is Liz Truss in slow motion.
    Sorry but what spending binge.

    We have a set of payrises which are only attached to Labour because Rishi called the election between the independent pay review boards suggesting increases and Rishi having to pay or reject them

    And some benefits cuts that were reversed. I'm struggling (and have struggled for a while) to see any spending that Labour has actually committed to - bar an overpriced but unavoidable nuclear power station and defence..

    But equally I wasn't actually arguing anything beyond - if Kemi adopts your recommendation - best to keep as much of the 2022-24 cabinet away from the public as she can get away with.
    Huge public sector pay rises, an extra £25bn of unfunded spending for the NHS, a huge rise in the benefits bill due to much higher inflation that they have caused with their idiotic tax increases.

    It was literally there in black and white in October, Labour added £60bn per year to state spending and on average increased borrowing by £37bn per year because their tax rises didn't cover the full amount. I very clearly remember pointing out that this would end up becoming Liz Truss in slow motion as the markets have to digest a huge increase on gilt supply and now we are one adverse fiscal event away from a full on debt crisis, failed auctions and a BoE backstop at debt auctions.
    Huge public pay rises which would have been announced in June if Rishi hadn't ran away from the decision but hey blame Labour - it would have been the same regardles..
    I'm sorry there's no way that the Tories would have given into the unions like that. They were already resisting public sector pay increases why do you assume they'd suddenly just cave? They'd have lived with the strikes and banked the savings from not having to pay out strike days.
    Because their voters are entirely reliant on the NHS. A strike there literally kills their voter base.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932
    The new Fantastic Four film is utterly fantastic.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922

    The new Fantastic Four film is utterly fantastic.

    Perhaps, but is it also four me?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,294
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nearly three thefts a minute are being reported by shops amid a growing shoplifting epidemic, official figures show.

    Shoplifting hit a record high of 530,643 offences reported to police in the year to March, a 20 per cent increase on the previous year’s total of 444,022.

    The rate of shoplifting is nearly double the rate two decades ago, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)

    This isn't a problem according to many on the left.
    Really? Who on the left says it isn't a problem?
    The left don't particularly like talking about it because they regard it as a classic right-wing / populist topic.
    Citation needed.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,205
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nearly three thefts a minute are being reported by shops amid a growing shoplifting epidemic, official figures show.

    Shoplifting hit a record high of 530,643 offences reported to police in the year to March, a 20 per cent increase on the previous year’s total of 444,022.

    The rate of shoplifting is nearly double the rate two decades ago, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)

    This isn't a problem according to many on the left.
    Really? Who on the left says it isn't a problem?
    The left don't particularly like talking about it because they regard it as a classic right-wing / populist topic.
    So who on the left said it isn't a problem?

    You answered a question that I did not ask.
    Not mainstream left.

    But, you do encounter people who treat shoplifting as “sticking it to the man.”
  • eekeek Posts: 30,780

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Kemi should go full-on economics and insolvency, actually, because that's a chicken that could very easily home home to roost over the next 4 years.

    Only the Tories would then be the only ones who'd have credibility on it.

    Such a strategy might see her suddenly bounce up to 30%+ in a crisis.

    Problem for Kemi is that a lot of the mess can be pinned on Hunt who created the mess with his 4p reduction in National Insurance.

    Now it probably doesn't require much more than keeping Hunt and anyone else who can be blamed well away from the public gaze but it's something she needs to be aware of...
    No it's not, Labour pushed spending up by £60bn per year. If they hadn't done that and gone on a gigantic spending binge there would be a current budget surplus and our debt yields would be appreciably lower. Rachel Reeves is Liz Truss in slow motion.
    Sorry but what spending binge.

    We have a set of payrises which are only attached to Labour because Rishi called the election between the independent pay review boards suggesting increases and Rishi having to pay or reject them

    And some benefits cuts that were reversed. I'm struggling (and have struggled for a while) to see any spending that Labour has actually committed to - bar an overpriced but unavoidable nuclear power station and defence..

    But equally I wasn't actually arguing anything beyond - if Kemi adopts your recommendation - best to keep as much of the 2022-24 cabinet away from the public as she can get away with.
    Huge public sector pay rises, an extra £25bn of unfunded spending for the NHS, a huge rise in the benefits bill due to much higher inflation that they have caused with their idiotic tax increases.

    It was literally there in black and white in October, Labour added £60bn per year to state spending and on average increased borrowing by £37bn per year because their tax rises didn't cover the full amount. I very clearly remember pointing out that this would end up becoming Liz Truss in slow motion as the markets have to digest a huge increase on gilt supply and now we are one adverse fiscal event away from a full on debt crisis, failed auctions and a BoE backstop at debt auctions.
    Huge public pay rises which would have been announced in June if Rishi hadn't ran away from the decision but hey blame Labour - it would have been the same regardles..
    I'm sorry there's no way that the Tories would have given into the unions like that. They were already resisting public sector pay increases why do you assume they'd suddenly just cave? They'd have lived with the strikes and banked the savings from not having to pay out strike days.
    There were no savings. They were paying doctors £3k for a single shift to cover the strike days.
    And I suspect there will be people being paid more than that this weekend..
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932

    The new Fantastic Four film is utterly fantastic.

    Perhaps, but is it also four me?
    Well yes.

    My kids disowned me after my reaction to the first mid credits scene.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253

    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nearly three thefts a minute are being reported by shops amid a growing shoplifting epidemic, official figures show.

    Shoplifting hit a record high of 530,643 offences reported to police in the year to March, a 20 per cent increase on the previous year’s total of 444,022.

    The rate of shoplifting is nearly double the rate two decades ago, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)

    This isn't a problem according to many on the left.
    Really? Who on the left says it isn't a problem?
    The left don't particularly like talking about it because they regard it as a classic right-wing / populist topic.
    It was the Tories who stopped funding the police and courts, and failed to modernise either. And big business who have shifted from staffed tills you have to go through to automated checkouts that rely on the honesty of the customer instead to save a few quid.
    Both the state and the shops have concluded that there's a fraction of crime they are prepared to tolerate. Roughly where the cost of dealing with it exceeds the cost of overlooking it.

    It's terrible for society, but utterly rational on a spreadsheet.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,010

    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    1h
    New Gallup Poll has Trump’s approval at 37%.

    Disapproval at 58%.

    -21 points underwater.

    This is officially lower than his polling immediately after January 6th, 2021.


    ===

    Maybe he wont try and force Supreme Court to a allow a third term run because he knows he would lose?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,010
    Clive Lewis MP
    @labourlewis

    Lots of people asking if I’m going to join the new political party of Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana.

    Here’s my response:

    I’m staying put. Not because it’s easy - but because now more than ever, we need progressive voices in the Labour Party and this government.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,522


    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    1h
    New Gallup Poll has Trump’s approval at 37%.

    Disapproval at 58%.

    -21 points underwater.

    This is officially lower than his polling immediately after January 6th, 2021.


    ===

    Maybe he wont try and force Supreme Court to a allow a third term run because he knows he would lose?

    Don't need to run a third term if you cancel elections
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,522

    Just read that this year UK government will borrow 140 billion, of which 110 will be needed to cover interest on existing borrowing!

    Why is no-one talking about this?

    To think we actually had a surplus in 2000/2001.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,985

    The new Fantastic Four film is utterly fantastic.

    Perhaps, but is it also four me?
    Well yes.

    My kids disowned me after my reaction to the first mid credits scene.
    I’ve not bothered with the last few, since around Deadpool 3. Can you jump straight back in?
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,695
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nearly three thefts a minute are being reported by shops amid a growing shoplifting epidemic, official figures show.

    Shoplifting hit a record high of 530,643 offences reported to police in the year to March, a 20 per cent increase on the previous year’s total of 444,022.

    The rate of shoplifting is nearly double the rate two decades ago, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)

    This isn't a problem according to many on the left.
    Self-service doesn't help the situation, of course. Especially when the till is sited right at the back of the shop.
    Yet in Norway, when the road you are driving along comes to a fjord, so you drive on the ferry and go upstairs for a snack during the twenty minute crossing, they don't bother to staff their shipboard canteens any more. They just put all the cakes and sandwiches out, have a coffee machine at the end, and you go to the self checkout and tell the machine what you have taken, and pay.
    I think this is a really pertinent anecdote that needs more analysis. Social norms and trust are really strong in Norway. Why is that not the case in the UK in some/many contexts?

    In my view this is one of the central questions governments (or the think tanks behind them) ought to be asking.

    All possible answers should be on the table, from the cultural impacts of large - scale immigration through to the alienating effects of modern capitalism.

    Perhaps the answers to this could form the manifesto of Your Party?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,985
    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253
    nunu2 said:


    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    1h
    New Gallup Poll has Trump’s approval at 37%.

    Disapproval at 58%.

    -21 points underwater.

    This is officially lower than his polling immediately after January 6th, 2021.


    ===

    Maybe he wont try and force Supreme Court to a allow a third term run because he knows he would lose?

    Don't need to run a third term if you cancel elections
    Or if you run elections, but just make sure that the correct people win.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,308
    moonshine said:

    The new Fantastic Four film is utterly fantastic.

    Perhaps, but is it also four me?
    Well yes.

    My kids disowned me after my reaction to the first mid credits scene.
    I’ve not bothered with the last few, since around Deadpool 3. Can you jump straight back in?
    Bendy man, invisible force field girl, stone man and fire man guard world. Big bad man and his friend turn up. Science stuff and teamwork are employed. The world is [REDACTED] and everybody is [REDACTED]. Simples!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,010

    nunu2 said:


    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    1h
    New Gallup Poll has Trump’s approval at 37%.

    Disapproval at 58%.

    -21 points underwater.

    This is officially lower than his polling immediately after January 6th, 2021.


    ===

    Maybe he wont try and force Supreme Court to a allow a third term run because he knows he would lose?

    Don't need to run a third term if you cancel elections
    Or if you run elections, but just make sure that the correct people win.
    More likely scenario. Outright cancelling may be a bridge too far for Americans even in their current looney tunes moment.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    One for the North British experts.

    Is Turnberry Golf Course covered by Right to Roam?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932
    moonshine said:

    The new Fantastic Four film is utterly fantastic.

    Perhaps, but is it also four me?
    Well yes.

    My kids disowned me after my reaction to the first mid credits scene.
    I’ve not bothered with the last few, since around Deadpool 3. Can you jump straight back in?
    I’d recommend watching the post credits scene of Thunderbolts before you watch Fantastic Four.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,780
    MattW said:

    One for the North British experts.

    Is Turnberry Golf Course covered by Right to Roam?

    In a limited way, you can't interfere with the golf - https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/practical-guide-all/golf-courses
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922

    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nearly three thefts a minute are being reported by shops amid a growing shoplifting epidemic, official figures show.

    Shoplifting hit a record high of 530,643 offences reported to police in the year to March, a 20 per cent increase on the previous year’s total of 444,022.

    The rate of shoplifting is nearly double the rate two decades ago, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)

    This isn't a problem according to many on the left.
    Really? Who on the left says it isn't a problem?
    The left don't particularly like talking about it because they regard it as a classic right-wing / populist topic.
    It was the Tories who stopped funding the police and courts, and failed to modernise either. And big business who have shifted from staffed tills you have to go through to automated checkouts that rely on the honesty of the customer instead to save a few quid.
    Both the state and the shops have concluded that there's a fraction of crime they are prepared to tolerate. Roughly where the cost of dealing with it exceeds the cost of overlooking it.

    It's terrible for society, but utterly rational on a spreadsheet.
    It is rational on a spreadsheet initially, but as human behaviour adapts to the new rules becomes more questionable and potentially costly.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,010
    Trump suddenly decides to visit the Fed in yet another desperate attempt at distraction from the files. Presidents usually stay away to help maintain its independence.



  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,253

    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nearly three thefts a minute are being reported by shops amid a growing shoplifting epidemic, official figures show.

    Shoplifting hit a record high of 530,643 offences reported to police in the year to March, a 20 per cent increase on the previous year’s total of 444,022.

    The rate of shoplifting is nearly double the rate two decades ago, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)

    This isn't a problem according to many on the left.
    Really? Who on the left says it isn't a problem?
    The left don't particularly like talking about it because they regard it as a classic right-wing / populist topic.
    It was the Tories who stopped funding the police and courts, and failed to modernise either. And big business who have shifted from staffed tills you have to go through to automated checkouts that rely on the honesty of the customer instead to save a few quid.
    Both the state and the shops have concluded that there's a fraction of crime they are prepared to tolerate. Roughly where the cost of dealing with it exceeds the cost of overlooking it.

    It's terrible for society, but utterly rational on a spreadsheet.
    It is rational on a spreadsheet initially, but as human behaviour adapts to the new rules becomes more questionable and potentially costly.
    Yup.

    But leaving problems for the future to solve is what we're good at.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,791
    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922

    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nearly three thefts a minute are being reported by shops amid a growing shoplifting epidemic, official figures show.

    Shoplifting hit a record high of 530,643 offences reported to police in the year to March, a 20 per cent increase on the previous year’s total of 444,022.

    The rate of shoplifting is nearly double the rate two decades ago, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)

    This isn't a problem according to many on the left.
    Really? Who on the left says it isn't a problem?
    The left don't particularly like talking about it because they regard it as a classic right-wing / populist topic.
    It was the Tories who stopped funding the police and courts, and failed to modernise either. And big business who have shifted from staffed tills you have to go through to automated checkouts that rely on the honesty of the customer instead to save a few quid.
    Both the state and the shops have concluded that there's a fraction of crime they are prepared to tolerate. Roughly where the cost of dealing with it exceeds the cost of overlooking it.

    It's terrible for society, but utterly rational on a spreadsheet.
    It is rational on a spreadsheet initially, but as human behaviour adapts to the new rules becomes more questionable and potentially costly.
    Yup.

    But leaving problems for the future to solve is what we're good at.
    Witness the confidence the remaining Tories have in lets just cut stuff heavily. *

    * (bar public sector tech salaries for people like them which we should increase)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    One for the North British experts.

    Is Turnberry Golf Course covered by Right to Roam?

    In a limited way, you can't interfere with the golf - https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/practical-guide-all/golf-courses
    Yes, but can you take pot shots at visiting dignitaries?

    Fore !! Ooops too Far !!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,543
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    One for the North British experts.

    Is Turnberry Golf Course covered by Right to Roam?

    In a limited way, you can't interfere with the golf - https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/practical-guide-all/golf-courses
    Yes, but can you take pot shots at visiting dignitaries?

    Fore !! Ooops too Far !!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,522
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    Which is a shame because she had a lot of potential.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,791


    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    1h
    New Gallup Poll has Trump’s approval at 37%.

    Disapproval at 58%.

    -21 points underwater.

    This is officially lower than his polling immediately after January 6th, 2021.


    ===

    Maybe he wont try and force Supreme Court to a allow a third term run because he knows he would lose?

    If I were the Democrats I would be pushing to repeal the 22nd Amendment, because that would setup a fabulous 2028 Presidential election: Donald Trump vs the young buck, Bill Clinton.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,291
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    If she is serious about being a British Milei, is she going to freeze UK pensions despite inflation?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,086
    MattW said:

    One for the North British experts.

    Is Turnberry Golf Course covered by Right to Roam?

    Not this week. The A road past the hotel and golf course is already closed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,791
    rcs1000 said:


    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    1h
    New Gallup Poll has Trump’s approval at 37%.

    Disapproval at 58%.

    -21 points underwater.

    This is officially lower than his polling immediately after January 6th, 2021.


    ===

    Maybe he wont try and force Supreme Court to a allow a third term run because he knows he would lose?

    If I were the Democrats I would be pushing to repeal the 22nd Amendment, because that would setup a fabulous 2028 Presidential election: Donald Trump vs the young buck, Bill Clinton.
    They could share stories about the good times they each had with their mutual buddy, Jeffrey Epstein.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,791
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    If she is serious about being a British Milei, is she going to freeze UK pensions despite inflation?
    She's not serious about anything. She's so out of her depth, she brought snorkel gear to a philosophy seminar.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    If she is serious about being a British Milei, is she going to freeze UK pensions despite inflation?
    She has said she would means test the triple lock
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,291
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    If she is serious about being a British Milei, is she going to freeze UK pensions despite inflation?
    She has said she would means test the triple lock
    Apart from being gibberish, that is nothing like what Milei did.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,522
    Reform candidate in Worcestershire is challenging a tied election result because it was decided by the equivalent of a toss of a coin. Only problem is that's precisely one of the ways in which such tied elections are supposed to be decided.

    https://andrewspreviews.substack.com/p/previewing-the-seven-council-by-elections-c80

    "The defeated Reform UK candidate Elizabeth Williams has now launched legal action in the Election Court. Her petition, which can be read on the website of Wychavon council here (link), makes various allegations as to the conduct of the count and the drawing of lots and seeks a declaration that the election is void on the grounds that Robson was elected by an equivalent of a "toss of a coin". Given that this is what the rules expect in the event of a tied election, that ground seems somewhat hopeless. Williams also makes allegations of undue influence and corrupt behaviour against the Green Party candidate and her campaign team, who are specifically accused of behaviour which sounds suspiciously like acting as tellers at polling stations."
  • eekeek Posts: 30,780
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    If she is serious about being a British Milei, is she going to freeze UK pensions despite inflation?
    She has said she would means test the triple lock
    Which means absolutely nothing - is she going to means test all the OAP pension or a part of it?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    If she is serious about being a British Milei, is she going to freeze UK pensions despite inflation?
    She has said she would means test the triple lock
    https://news.sky.com/story/kemi-badenoch-hits-back-at-claims-she-would-means-test-pensions-triple-lock-13290743

    Careful...Kemi considers that scaring people away.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,294

    HYUFD said:

    Beyond areas where Corbynite Independents already do well, I can't see the new party getting that much traction with FPTP.

    If we had PR like Germany they might gain more traction and seats as Linke have. In France Melenchon's party effectively has formed a combined block with the Socialist Party under their second ballot system

    If it takes a thousand votes from Labour in every Labour constituency it returns right wing MPs and a right wing government.

    Mission accomplished.
    Thus ridding us of the most malign British Government of my lifetime. Good.
    No that was your 49 day administration.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,904
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    If she is serious about being a British Milei, is she going to freeze UK pensions despite inflation?
    She has said she would means test the triple lock
    Which means absolutely nothing - is she going to means test all the OAP pension or a part of it?
    And how much would that cost too ?

    Sounds like something she blurted out without any thought,
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,993
    Andy_JS said:

    Reform candidate in Worcestershire is challenging a tied election result because it was decided by the equivalent of a toss of a coin. Only problem is that's precisely one of the ways in which such tied elections are supposed to be decided.

    https://andrewspreviews.substack.com/p/previewing-the-seven-council-by-elections-c80

    "The defeated Reform UK candidate Elizabeth Williams has now launched legal action in the Election Court. Her petition, which can be read on the website of Wychavon council here (link), makes various allegations as to the conduct of the count and the drawing of lots and seeks a declaration that the election is void on the grounds that Robson was elected by an equivalent of a "toss of a coin". Given that this is what the rules expect in the event of a tied election, that ground seems somewhat hopeless. Williams also makes allegations of undue influence and corrupt behaviour against the Green Party candidate and her campaign team, who are specifically accused of behaviour which sounds suspiciously like acting as tellers at polling stations."

    Persecution complex party 0 - 1 Greens
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    I think her policies on spending cuts and leaving the ECHR are near identical to what Jenrick would propose anyway. Jenrick's time may come if Farage loses the next general election as the man who can reunite the right but he won't win back Reform voters trying to out anti woke or anti immigration Farage anymore than Kemi has. Stride could at least have gravitas on the economy to win back 2024 Sunak Tory voters who have gone to Reform.

    Find Out Now also has Reform at least 5% higher than other polls
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,065
    edited July 24
    kinabalu said:

    The 2010 Tory message was Britain is broke, it needs us to fix it after 13 years of Labour.

    It worked.

    But I don't know about "Britain is broke, it needs us to fix it after 5 years of Labour and 14 years of us".

    I don't take Reform seriously because they are not serious about the hard choices involved in the economics of tax, spend, debt and deficit, while pretending to be the new kids who will be different.

    The trouble is it is currently impossible to take Labour or Tories seriously either for the same reasons. Their joint determination to take the line of least resistance (Labour by carrying on the debt, deficit, spend spiral; Tories by saying they will decrease the state but not saying a single instance of how and where) is disastrous.

    By the 2029 General Election it is quite possible that some black swan will have gone off pop and realism will have broken in. Otherwise, by 2029 I think lots of people will know that unless those standing have a serious plan about the hard choices, there is no point in voting for anyone.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,425
    I’m watching Children of Men for the first time. Wanted something cheerful and uplifting. Hear it’s a blast
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,985
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    I think her policies on spending cuts and leaving the ECHR are near identical to what Jenrick would propose anyway. Jenrick's time may come if Farage loses the next general election as the man who can reunite the right but he won't win back Reform voters trying to out anti woke or anti immigration Farage anymore than Kemi has. Stride could at least have gravitas on the economy to win back 2024 Sunak Tory voters who have gone to Reform.

    Find Out Now also has Reform at least 5% higher than other polls
    The Tories are not trusted on fiscal prudence, size of the state or immigration. It’s going to be slog to win trust back on those things. The failure of Farage’s project in office most likely.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,369
    This post combines all of @Leon 's favourite things

    @ciaranm.bsky.social‬

    Thought y’all needed to know that Grok has pencilled in civil war in Britain for a week on Tuesday

    https://bsky.app/profile/ciaranm.bsky.social/post/3luq72q3h4s2m
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,235
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    If she is serious about being a British Milei, is she going to freeze UK pensions despite inflation?
    Doesn't Milei want Britain to hand over the Malvin... er, I mean Falklands?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,434

    MattW said:

    One for the North British experts.

    Is Turnberry Golf Course covered by Right to Roam?

    Not this week. The A road past the hotel and golf course is already closed.
    A bit of roaming went on at Balmedie.

    https://www.facebook.com/TruthAgainstHate/videos/1050465847278820/?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&fs=e
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,235
    Leon said:

    I’m watching Children of Men for the first time. Wanted something cheerful and uplifting. Hear it’s a blast

    Film4 showed "Die Hard" and "Predator" back to back last night.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,228

    Clive Lewis MP
    @labourlewis

    Lots of people asking if I’m going to join the new political party of Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana.

    Here’s my response:

    I’m staying put. Not because it’s easy - but because now more than ever, we need progressive voices in the Labour Party and this government.

    Clive Lewis was on the Daily Politics the other week talking about class warfare. Which party should he be in? Sultanas or the Conservatives?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,063
    Leon said:

    I’m watching Children of Men for the first time. Wanted something cheerful and uplifting. Hear it’s a blast

    It's actually very good. One of the few films where I've saw the trailer at the time and not been disappointed by what I ultimately saw. Though not so cheery.

    The book's good too, but is a little different.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Beyond areas where Corbynite Independents already do well, I can't see the new party getting that much traction with FPTP.

    If we had PR like Germany they might gain more traction and seats as Linke have. In France Melenchon's party effectively has formed a combined block with the Socialist Party under their second ballot system

    If it takes a thousand votes from Labour in every Labour constituency it returns right wing MPs and a right wing government.

    Mission accomplished.
    Fortunately for Labour the right is also divided between the Tories and Reform, with mo major party polling consistently even over 30%
    Reform seem to have pulled away from the Tories which puts them very much in the driving seat . Corbyn will merely adjust the driving seat to make it even more comfortable for them.

    The man is an enigma. A self proclaimed champion of the underdog who inadvertently keeps the underdog on his knees.
    For now, if Kemi's new axe
    spending and leave the ECHR
    policies don't win back Tory voters from Reform she will likely be replaced by Jenrick or Stride who might start to do so
    So Kemi, who defended keeping the WFA for wealthy pensioners, and the IHT tax relief for wealthy farmers, wants to hack spending? I am not convinced.
    Cutting back public spending enables government to keep IHT tax relief for family farms
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,749
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Kemi should go full-on economics and insolvency, actually, because that's a chicken that could very easily home home to roost over the next 4 years.

    Only the Tories would then be the only ones who'd have credibility on it.

    Such a strategy might see her suddenly bounce up to 30%+ in a crisis.

    Problem for Kemi is that a lot of the mess can be pinned on Hunt who created the mess with his 4p reduction in National Insurance.

    Now it probably doesn't require much more than keeping Hunt and anyone else who can be blamed well away from the public gaze but it's something she needs to be aware of...
    No it's not, Labour pushed spending up by £60bn per year. If they hadn't done that and gone on a gigantic spending binge there would be a current budget surplus and our debt yields would be appreciably lower. Rachel Reeves is Liz Truss in slow motion.
    Sorry but what spending binge.

    We have a set of payrises which are only attached to Labour because Rishi called the election between the independent pay review boards suggesting increases and Rishi having to pay or reject them

    And some benefits cuts that were reversed. I'm struggling (and have struggled for a while) to see any spending that Labour has actually committed to - bar an overpriced but unavoidable nuclear power station and defence..

    But equally I wasn't actually arguing anything beyond - if Kemi adopts your recommendation - best to keep as much of the 2022-24 cabinet away from the public as she can get away with.
    Huge public sector pay rises, an extra £25bn of unfunded spending for the NHS, a huge rise in the benefits bill due to much higher inflation that they have caused with their idiotic tax increases.

    It was literally there in black and white in October, Labour added £60bn per year to state spending and on average increased borrowing by £37bn per year because their tax rises didn't cover the full amount. I very clearly remember pointing out that this would end up becoming Liz Truss in slow motion as the markets have to digest a huge increase on gilt supply and now we are one adverse fiscal event away from a full on debt crisis, failed auctions and a BoE backstop at debt auctions.
    Huge public pay rises which would have been announced in June if Rishi hadn't ran away from the decision but hey blame Labour - it would have been the same regardles..
    I'm sorry there's no way that the Tories would have given into the unions like that. They were already resisting public sector pay increases why do you assume they'd suddenly just cave? They'd have lived with the strikes and banked the savings from not having to pay out strike days.
    There were no savings. They were paying doctors £3k for a single shift to cover the strike days.
    And I suspect there will be people being paid more than that this weekend..
    £200+ an hour for consultants in the NE I understand.

    Doesn’t seem all that much when you consider partners in law firms in the North are charged out at £600+ an hour.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,749
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Beyond areas where Corbynite Independents already do well, I can't see the new party getting that much traction with FPTP.

    If we had PR like Germany they might gain more traction and seats as Linke have. In France Melenchon's party effectively has formed a combined block with the Socialist Party under their second ballot system

    If it takes a thousand votes from Labour in every Labour constituency it returns right wing MPs and a right wing government.

    Mission accomplished.
    Fortunately for Labour the right is also divided between the Tories and Reform, with mo major party polling consistently even over 30%
    Reform seem to have pulled away from the Tories which puts them very much in the driving seat . Corbyn will merely adjust the driving seat to make it even more comfortable for them.

    The man is an enigma. A self proclaimed champion of the underdog who inadvertently keeps the underdog on his knees.
    For now, if Kemi's new axe
    spending and leave the ECHR
    policies don't win back Tory voters from Reform she will likely be replaced by Jenrick or Stride who might start to do so
    So Kemi, who defended keeping the WFA for wealthy pensioners, and the IHT tax relief for wealthy farmers, wants to hack spending? I am not convinced.
    Cutting back public spending enables government to keep IHT tax relief for family farms
    Lol
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Kemi should go full-on economics and insolvency, actually, because that's a chicken that could very easily home home to roost over the next 4 years.

    Only the Tories would then be the only ones who'd have credibility on it.

    Such a strategy might see her suddenly bounce up to 30%+ in a crisis.

    Problem for Kemi is that a lot of the mess can be pinned on Hunt who created the mess with his 4p reduction in National Insurance.

    Now it probably doesn't require much more than keeping Hunt and anyone else who can be blamed well away from the public gaze but it's something she needs to be aware of...
    No it's not, Labour pushed spending up by £60bn per year. If they hadn't done that and gone on a gigantic spending binge there would be a current budget surplus and our debt yields would be appreciably lower. Rachel Reeves is Liz Truss in slow motion.
    Sorry but what spending binge.

    We have a set of payrises which are only attached to Labour because Rishi called the election between the independent pay review boards suggesting increases and Rishi having to pay or reject them

    And some benefits cuts that were reversed. I'm struggling (and have struggled for a while) to see any spending that Labour has actually committed to - bar an overpriced but unavoidable nuclear power station and defence..

    But equally I wasn't actually arguing anything beyond - if Kemi adopts your recommendation - best to keep as much of the 2022-24 cabinet away from the public as she can get away with.
    Huge public sector pay rises, an extra £25bn of unfunded spending for the NHS, a huge rise in the benefits bill due to much higher inflation that they have caused with their idiotic tax increases.

    It was literally there in black and white in October, Labour added £60bn per year to state spending and on average increased borrowing by £37bn per year because their tax rises didn't cover the full amount. I very clearly remember pointing out that this would end up becoming Liz Truss in slow motion as the markets have to digest a huge increase on gilt supply and now we are one adverse fiscal event away from a full on debt crisis, failed auctions and a BoE backstop at debt auctions.
    Huge public pay rises which would have been announced in June if Rishi hadn't ran away from the decision but hey blame Labour - it would have been the same regardles..
    I'm sorry there's no way that the Tories would have given into the unions like that. They were already resisting public sector pay increases why do you assume they'd suddenly just cave? They'd have lived with the strikes and banked the savings from not having to pay out strike days.
    There were no savings. They were paying doctors £3k for a single shift to cover the strike days.
    And I suspect there will be people being paid more than that this weekend..
    £200+ an hour for consultants in the NE I understand.

    Doesn’t seem all that much when you consider partners in law firms in the North are charged out at £600+ an hour.
    But lawyers provide a more valuable service to humanity than doctors ever do.

    You are comparing apples with diamonds
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    If she is serious about being a British Milei, is she going to freeze UK pensions despite inflation?
    Doesn't Milei want Britain to hand over the Malvin... er, I mean Falklands?
    He is focused on the Argentine economy and wants a diplomatic solution for the Falklands
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,228
    Scott_xP said:

    This post combines all of @Leon 's favourite things

    @ciaranm.bsky.social‬

    Thought y’all needed to know that Grok has pencilled in civil war in Britain for a week on Tuesday

    https://bsky.app/profile/ciaranm.bsky.social/post/3luq72q3h4s2m

    Damm I have an important appointment that day @ 2:00 pm. Wonder if it could be delayed by a few hours.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,712
    edited July 24
    maxh said:

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nearly three thefts a minute are being reported by shops amid a growing shoplifting epidemic, official figures show.

    Shoplifting hit a record high of 530,643 offences reported to police in the year to March, a 20 per cent increase on the previous year’s total of 444,022.

    The rate of shoplifting is nearly double the rate two decades ago, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)

    This isn't a problem according to many on the left.
    Self-service doesn't help the situation, of course. Especially when the till is sited right at the back of the shop.
    Yet in Norway, when the road you are driving along comes to a fjord, so you drive on the ferry and go upstairs for a snack during the twenty minute crossing, they don't bother to staff their shipboard canteens any more. They just put all the cakes and sandwiches out, have a coffee machine at the end, and you go to the self checkout and tell the machine what you have taken, and pay.
    I think this is a really pertinent anecdote that needs more analysis. Social norms and trust are really strong in Norway. Why is that not the case in the UK in some/many contexts?

    In my view this is one of the central questions governments (or the think tanks behind them) ought to be asking.

    All possible answers should be on the table, from the cultural impacts of large - scale immigration through to the alienating effects of modern capitalism.

    Perhaps the answers to this could form the manifesto of Your Party?
    I'd love to think that Your Party would be capable of such thought, but the evidence of Corbyn's leadership of the Labour party was that he regarded any idea newer than four decades old as being anathema.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Beyond areas where Corbynite Independents already do well, I can't see the new party getting that much traction with FPTP.

    If we had PR like Germany they might gain more traction and seats as Linke have. In France Melenchon's party effectively has formed a combined block with the Socialist Party under their second ballot system

    If it takes a thousand votes from Labour in every Labour constituency it returns right wing MPs and a right wing government.

    Mission accomplished.
    Fortunately for Labour the right is also divided between the Tories and Reform, with mo major party polling consistently even over 30%
    Reform seem to have pulled away from the Tories which puts them very much in the driving seat . Corbyn will merely adjust the driving seat to make it even more comfortable for them.

    The man is an enigma. A self proclaimed champion of the underdog who inadvertently keeps the underdog on his knees.
    For now, if Kemi's new axe
    spending and leave the ECHR
    policies don't win back Tory voters from Reform she will likely be replaced by Jenrick or Stride who might start to do so
    So Kemi, who defended keeping the WFA for wealthy pensioners, and the IHT tax relief for wealthy farmers, wants to hack spending? I am not convinced.
    Cutting back public spending enables government to keep IHT tax relief for family farms
    Lol
    It is no laughing matter for some farmers who have even considered suicide to ensure their generations old family farm stays in their family and feeding the nation
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,969
    Leon said:

    I’m watching Children of Men for the first time. Wanted something cheerful and uplifting. Hear it’s a blast

    Eerily prescient movie. Add in a few feral kids nicking the entire booze shelf of their local tesco and walking out unchecked, and the first half of the film looks a lot like where we are today.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,178

    HYUFD said:

    Beyond areas where Corbynite Independents already do well, I can't see the new party getting that much traction with FPTP.

    If we had PR like Germany they might gain more traction and seats as Linke have. In France Melenchon's party effectively has formed a combined block with the Socialist Party under their second ballot system

    If it takes a thousand votes from Labour in every Labour constituency it returns right wing MPs and a right wing government.

    Mission accomplished.
    Thus ridding us of the most malign British Government of my lifetime. Good.
    No that was your 49 day administration.
    Incompetence (which Sir's lot are also a dab hand it) is very different from being actively malign. Truss's administration wasn't competent - a competent Government would land a budget. But it wasn't malign - it wanted to turn the country around, not bury it in foreign liabilities or menace it with attacks on freedom of speech and thought.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,088
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    I think her policies on spending cuts and leaving the ECHR are near identical to what Jenrick would propose anyway. Jenrick's time may come if Farage loses the next general election as the man who can reunite the right but he won't win back Reform voters trying to out anti woke or anti immigration Farage anymore than Kemi has. Stride could at least have gravitas on the economy to win back 2024 Sunak Tory voters who have gone to Reform.

    Find Out Now also has Reform at least 5% higher than other polls
    The Tories are not trusted on fiscal prudence, size of the state or immigration. It’s going to be slog to win trust back on those things. The failure of Farage’s project in office most likely.
    Polls have now started to show in retrospect voters preferred Sunak and Hunt to Starmer and Reeves on the economy. Net immigration to the UK is also falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak brought in with Cleverly
  • eekeek Posts: 30,780

    HYUFD said:

    Beyond areas where Corbynite Independents already do well, I can't see the new party getting that much traction with FPTP.

    If we had PR like Germany they might gain more traction and seats as Linke have. In France Melenchon's party effectively has formed a combined block with the Socialist Party under their second ballot system

    If it takes a thousand votes from Labour in every Labour constituency it returns right wing MPs and a right wing government.

    Mission accomplished.
    Thus ridding us of the most malign British Government of my lifetime. Good.
    No that was your 49 day administration.
    Incompetence (which Sir's lot are also a dab hand it) is very different from being actively malign. Truss's administration wasn't competent - a competent Government would land a budget. But it wasn't malign - it wanted to turn the country around, not bury it in foreign liabilities or menace it with attacks on freedom of speech and thought.
    It was malign, it introduced tax cuts while not doing anything to cut spending - which is very Trumpion
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,178
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    If she is serious about being a British Milei, is she going to freeze UK pensions despite inflation?
    Doesn't Milei want Britain to hand over the Malvin... er, I mean Falklands?
    He is focused on the Argentine economy and wants a diplomatic solution for the Falklands
    That's a huge opportunity. Partner with Argentina, bury the past, and get the oil out. Build them a new Falklands to call The Malvinas if that makes them happy. If we don't do it, someone else probably already has their eyes on it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,235
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    If she is serious about being a British Milei, is she going to freeze UK pensions despite inflation?
    Doesn't Milei want Britain to hand over the Malvin... er, I mean Falklands?
    He is focused on the Argentine economy and wants a diplomatic solution for the Falklands
    You mean like the Chagos?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,178
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Beyond areas where Corbynite Independents already do well, I can't see the new party getting that much traction with FPTP.

    If we had PR like Germany they might gain more traction and seats as Linke have. In France Melenchon's party effectively has formed a combined block with the Socialist Party under their second ballot system

    If it takes a thousand votes from Labour in every Labour constituency it returns right wing MPs and a right wing government.

    Mission accomplished.
    Thus ridding us of the most malign British Government of my lifetime. Good.
    No that was your 49 day administration.
    Incompetence (which Sir's lot are also a dab hand it) is very different from being actively malign. Truss's administration wasn't competent - a competent Government would land a budget. But it wasn't malign - it wanted to turn the country around, not bury it in foreign liabilities or menace it with attacks on freedom of speech and thought.
    It was malign, it introduced tax cuts while not doing anything to cut spending - which is very Trumpion
    Tax cuts were very minimal. By far the biggest 'unfunded spurge' in the mini-budget was the energy price guarantee, but nobody ever cites it because it doesn't suit the ideological axe they're trying to grind.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,932
    I think the Germans have a word for this.

    A group of far-right Israeli politicians and settlers met in parliament this week to discuss a plan to displace Palestinians from Gaza, annex the territory and turn it into a hi-tech, luxury resort city for Israelis.

    The scheme, titled “The master plan for settlement in the Gaza Strip”, envisions the construction of 850,000 housing units, construction of hi-tech “smart cities” that trade cryptocurrency, and a metro system that runs across the territory. It took its inspiration from an idea shared by the US president, Donald Trump, in February, when he pledged to turn Gaza into the “riviera of the Middle East”.

    The text of the plan, which boasts of the economic benefits to Israel, said: “The right of the people of Israel to settle, develop and preserve this land is not just a historical right – it is a national and security obligation.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/24/far-right-israeli-politicians-and-settlers-discuss-luxury-gaza-riviera-plan
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,291
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Beyond areas where Corbynite Independents already do well, I can't see the new party getting that much traction with FPTP.

    If we had PR like Germany they might gain more traction and seats as Linke have. In France Melenchon's party effectively has formed a combined block with the Socialist Party under their second ballot system

    If it takes a thousand votes from Labour in every Labour constituency it returns right wing MPs and a right wing government.

    Mission accomplished.
    Fortunately for Labour the right is also divided between the Tories and Reform, with mo major party polling consistently even over 30%
    Reform seem to have pulled away from the Tories which puts them very much in the driving seat . Corbyn will merely adjust the driving seat to make it even more comfortable for them.

    The man is an enigma. A self proclaimed champion of the underdog who inadvertently keeps the underdog on his knees.
    For now, if Kemi's new axe
    spending and leave the ECHR
    policies don't win back Tory voters from Reform she will likely be replaced by Jenrick or Stride who might start to do so
    So Kemi, who defended keeping the WFA for wealthy pensioners, and the IHT tax relief for wealthy farmers, wants to hack spending? I am not convinced.
    Cutting back public spending enables government to keep IHT tax relief for family farms
    Lol
    It is no laughing matter for some farmers who have even considered suicide to ensure their generations old family farm stays in their family and feeding the nation
    Surely if they commit suicide inheritance tax is due.

    They need to give it away then live 7 years.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,425

    Leon said:

    I’m watching Children of Men for the first time. Wanted something cheerful and uplifting. Hear it’s a blast

    It's actually very good. One of the few films where I've saw the trailer at the time and not been disappointed by what I ultimately saw. Though not so cheery.

    The book's good too, but is a little different.
    A couple of friends “in the media” told me to watch it for its scarily prescient portrayal of London in total societal decline - the grot, graffiti, the exciting cultural diversity, the garbage - and the way it looks like london now

    They’re not wrong. Christ
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,791

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    If she is serious about being a British Milei, is she going to freeze UK pensions despite inflation?
    Doesn't Milei want Britain to hand over the Malvin... er, I mean Falklands?
    He is focused on the Argentine economy and wants a diplomatic solution for the Falklands
    That's a huge opportunity. Partner with Argentina, bury the past, and get the oil out. Build them a new Falklands to call The Malvinas if that makes them happy. If we don't do it, someone else probably already has their eyes on it.
    The Sea Lion project was expected to get to FID in the next few months, but the prices Navitas and Rockhopper have seen have been a bit higher than they would have liked, and I hear that the decision may be delayed into 2026. It's a classic *almost* project: if the oil price was $80-85 then I have no doubt it would have been approved, but at $66, it's really marginal.

    If it does get FID'ed (and if I had to bet, I would probably bet on them deferring it again), then it potentially opens up a lot of opportunity. Because once the infrastructure is in place, subsequent development becomes much cheaper. But that's a hard sell with the oil price where it is.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,178
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’m watching Children of Men for the first time. Wanted something cheerful and uplifting. Hear it’s a blast

    It's actually very good. One of the few films where I've saw the trailer at the time and not been disappointed by what I ultimately saw. Though not so cheery.

    The book's good too, but is a little different.
    A couple of friends “in the media” told me to watch it for its scarily prescient portrayal of London in total societal decline - the grot, graffiti, the exciting cultural diversity, the garbage - and the way it looks like london now

    They’re not wrong. Christ
    I read that as socialist decline.

    Both versions make sense.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,229
    edited July 24
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Beyond areas where Corbynite Independents already do well, I can't see the new party getting that much traction with FPTP.

    If we had PR like Germany they might gain more traction and seats as Linke have. In France Melenchon's party effectively has formed a combined block with the Socialist Party under their second ballot system

    If it takes a thousand votes from Labour in every Labour constituency it returns right wing MPs and a right wing government.

    Mission accomplished.
    Fortunately for Labour the right is also divided between the Tories and Reform, with mo major party polling consistently even over 30%
    Reform seem to have pulled away from the Tories which puts them very much in the driving seat . Corbyn will merely adjust the driving seat to make it even more comfortable for them.

    The man is an enigma. A self proclaimed champion of the underdog who inadvertently keeps the underdog on his knees.
    For now, if Kemi's new axe
    spending and leave the ECHR
    policies don't win back Tory voters from Reform she will likely be replaced by Jenrick or Stride who might start to do so
    So Kemi, who defended keeping the WFA for wealthy pensioners, and the IHT tax relief for wealthy farmers, wants to hack spending? I am not convinced.
    Cutting back public spending enables government to keep IHT tax relief for family farms
    Lol
    It is no laughing matter for some farmers who have even considered suicide to ensure their generations old family farm stays in their family and feeding the nation
    Suicide is not a good tactic.
    They need to gift the farm and live seven years.
    Someone should advise them.

    EDIT Foxy got there first.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,956
    Evening all :)

    Having barely recovered from another poster's grotesque ignorance of the important things in life, we have some polling on which to muse it would seem.

    To be honest, though, you pays your money and you takes your choice. Find Out Now may be the new gold standard, they will be if you are a Reform supporter while More In Common is better if you are a Conservative.

    The two blocs oscillate - Find Out Now and More In Common have Ref/Con on 50% but with YouGov only 44% with Lab, LD and Green on 49% (44% with FoN and 45% with MiC).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,791
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    I think her policies on spending cuts and leaving the ECHR are near identical to what Jenrick would propose anyway. Jenrick's time may come if Farage loses the next general election as the man who can reunite the right but he won't win back Reform voters trying to out anti woke or anti immigration Farage anymore than Kemi has. Stride could at least have gravitas on the economy to win back 2024 Sunak Tory voters who have gone to Reform.

    Find Out Now also has Reform at least 5% higher than other polls
    It's nothing to do with politics, it's to do with visibility. Kemi is invisible, trapped in her bunker, ignored by all.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,985
    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
    🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

    Changes from 16th July
    [Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

    Supposedly, this would give 436 MP's for Reform, compared to 15 for the Conservatives!
    Reform 436
    Labour 78
    LD 55
    SNP 37
    Con 15 (Kemi loses her seat)
    Greens 5

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=20&LIB=14&Reform=34&Green=10&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
    Strange. This poll Baxters to Reform 436 seats; Labour 78 seats.

    William Hill's current odds for most seats at next GE: Reform 5/4; Labour 13/10.

    Mirage? Betting opportunity?
    A change in Tory leadership will change quite a lot probably.
    ‘Probably’ is doing quite a lot of work there.
    If the Conservatives were to replace Badenoch with Jenrick, they'd have a chance. He's hard working, understands social media, and has a good eye for what'll get traction.

    If I were Reform, he would be the person I would fear.

    Kemi is an invisible nonentity currently overseeing the destruction of the Conservative Party.
    I think her policies on spending cuts and leaving the ECHR are near identical to what Jenrick would propose anyway. Jenrick's time may come if Farage loses the next general election as the man who can reunite the right but he won't win back Reform voters trying to out anti woke or anti immigration Farage anymore than Kemi has. Stride could at least have gravitas on the economy to win back 2024 Sunak Tory voters who have gone to Reform.

    Find Out Now also has Reform at least 5% higher than other polls
    The Tories are not trusted on fiscal prudence, size of the state or immigration. It’s going to be slog to win trust back on those things. The failure of Farage’s project in office most likely.
    Polls have now started to show in retrospect voters preferred Sunak and Hunt to Starmer and Reeves on the economy. Net immigration to the UK is also falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak brought in with Cleverly
    You’re having a laff if you think the tories are going to win back voters who care about immigration after the last fortnight.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,695

    Leon said:

    I’m watching Children of Men for the first time. Wanted something cheerful and uplifting. Hear it’s a blast

    It's actually very good. One of the few films where I've saw the trailer at the time and not been disappointed by what I ultimately saw. Though not so cheery.

    The book's good too, but is a little different.
    One of my favourite films of all time. Very prescient. @Leon if it's not too late, watch for the one super long camera shot in the last 20 mins or so (complete with blood spattered lens) - spectacular cinematography.

    The book I found very disappointing, but only I think because I was expecting the same story as the film.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,956
    Plenty of good coverage for the Conservatives in the Standard this evening - we only get the printed version once a week.

    A full two page write up on the state of the Conservatives in London - apparently it's 50 villages in search of a town - which reads pretty well for Badenoch. Apparently, the tide is turning and fortunes are improving - today's by election in Bromley may be informative.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/kemi-badenoch-conservative-party-london-b1239767.html

    There's then a whole page dedicated to a piece by Conservative peer Ross Kempsell having a pop at Sadiq Khan about fare evasion - everyone seems to be channelling their inner Jenrick on this - as well as the usual Standard pieces about how terrible life is in London etc.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,369
    @PedderSophie

    Big news. Macron says France will recognise a Palestinian state. He will do this formally at the United Nations GA in New York in September

    https://x.com/PedderSophie/status/1948466345156506082
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,791
    Has anyone seen the new South Park. I hear it's really quite something.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,149
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Beyond areas where Corbynite Independents already do well, I can't see the new party getting that much traction with FPTP.

    If we had PR like Germany they might gain more traction and seats as Linke have. In France Melenchon's party effectively has formed a combined block with the Socialist Party under their second ballot system

    If it takes a thousand votes from Labour in every Labour constituency it returns right wing MPs and a right wing government.

    Mission accomplished.
    Fortunately for Labour the right is also divided between the Tories and Reform, with mo major party polling consistently even over 30%
    Reform seem to have pulled away from the Tories which puts them very much in the driving seat . Corbyn will merely adjust the driving seat to make it even more comfortable for them.

    The man is an enigma. A self proclaimed champion of the underdog who inadvertently keeps the underdog on his knees.
    For now, if Kemi's new axe
    spending and leave the ECHR
    policies don't win back Tory voters from Reform she will likely be replaced by Jenrick or Stride who might start to do so
    So Kemi, who defended keeping the WFA for wealthy pensioners, and the IHT tax relief for wealthy farmers, wants to hack spending? I am not convinced.
    Cutting back public spending enables government to keep IHT tax relief for family farms
    Lol
    It is no laughing matter for some farmers who have even considered suicide to ensure their generations old family farm stays in their family and feeding the nation
    Suicide is not a good tactic.
    They need to gift the farm and live seven years.
    Someone should advise them.

    EDIT Foxy got there first.
    The change only comes into effect on 6th April 2026, so...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,235

    I think the Germans have a word for this.

    A group of far-right Israeli politicians and settlers met in parliament this week to discuss a plan to displace Palestinians from Gaza, annex the territory and turn it into a hi-tech, luxury resort city for Israelis.

    The scheme, titled “The master plan for settlement in the Gaza Strip”, envisions the construction of 850,000 housing units, construction of hi-tech “smart cities” that trade cryptocurrency, and a metro system that runs across the territory. It took its inspiration from an idea shared by the US president, Donald Trump, in February, when he pledged to turn Gaza into the “riviera of the Middle East”.

    The text of the plan, which boasts of the economic benefits to Israel, said: “The right of the people of Israel to settle, develop and preserve this land is not just a historical right – it is a national and security obligation.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/24/far-right-israeli-politicians-and-settlers-discuss-luxury-gaza-riviera-plan

    [Sunil perks up] A metro system?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,369
    rcs1000 said:

    Has anyone seen the new South Park. I hear it's really quite something.

    It cannot be unseen
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,321
    Corbyn's new Party must put ex Momentum members in a dilemma, do they leave the Greens and link up with Corbyn or do they back Polanski and push The Greens further Leftwards?

    JC was great at getting the vote out for Labour, the trouble was he energised the Tory vote even more.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,653
    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn's new Party must put ex Momentum members in a dilemma, do they leave the Greens and link up with Corbyn or do they back Polanski and push The Greens further Leftwards?

    JC was great at getting the vote out for Labour, the trouble was he energised the Tory vote even more.

    Surely they need to follow Jezbollah into whatever this new party is called.

    My money is on The Independent Group for Change.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,235
    rcs1000 said:

    Has anyone seen the new South Park. I hear it's really quite something.

    There's a South Park in Ilford South.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,369
    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn's new Party must put ex Momentum members in a dilemma, do they leave the Greens and link up with Corbyn or do they back Polanski and push The Greens further Leftwards?

    JC was great at getting the vote out for Labour, the trouble was he energised the Tory vote even more.

    @Maomentum_

    Sorry to announce that after recent events we have disaffiliated from YourParty.

    @Maomentum_

    Please note that 'Continuity Your Party' is in fact an interim name for our new organisation.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,291
    Battlebus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This post combines all of @Leon 's favourite things

    @ciaranm.bsky.social‬

    Thought y’all needed to know that Grok has pencilled in civil war in Britain for a week on Tuesday

    https://bsky.app/profile/ciaranm.bsky.social/post/3luq72q3h4s2m

    Damm I have an important appointment that day @ 2:00 pm. Wonder if it could be delayed by a few hours.
    To be fair Grok works from the same sources that Shriver does, from her bolthole in Portugal.

    https://bsky.app/profile/sundersays.bsky.social/post/3luoyi4yr7s25

    Don't they know that you can be ill informed by far right Social Media from the comfort of a Primrose Hill flat, between nights out enjoying the balmy summer evenings of London's nightlife.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,884

    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nearly three thefts a minute are being reported by shops amid a growing shoplifting epidemic, official figures show.

    Shoplifting hit a record high of 530,643 offences reported to police in the year to March, a 20 per cent increase on the previous year’s total of 444,022.

    The rate of shoplifting is nearly double the rate two decades ago, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)

    This isn't a problem according to many on the left.
    Really? Who on the left says it isn't a problem?
    The left don't particularly like talking about it because they regard it as a classic right-wing / populist topic.
    It was the Tories who stopped funding the police and courts, and failed to modernise either. And big business who have shifted from staffed tills you have to go through to automated checkouts that rely on the honesty of the customer instead to save a few quid.
    Both the state and the shops have concluded that there's a fraction of crime they are prepared to tolerate. Roughly where the cost of dealing with it exceeds the cost of overlooking it.

    It's terrible for society, but utterly rational on a spreadsheet.
    It is rational on a spreadsheet initially, but as human behaviour adapts to the new rules becomes more questionable and potentially costly.
    The thing to remember is that the cost of dealing with shoplifters has rocketed - see the gangs videoing the staff to see if they can claim assault.

    Trained security who can manhandle the shoplifters will be expensive - pay and insurance.

    There have been definite legal attacks on companies that try and use security like this - I’m
    aware of at least one case where a single law firm bought cases against multiple shops/workers in a chain, over confrontation with shop lifters.

    Alternatively, you can use the methodology of my local mini Tesco. A cousin of the manager hangs around and bashes shoplifters. When taken to court, he doesn’t give a shit. And since he isn’t actually employed by the store, no comeback.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,321

    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn's new Party must put ex Momentum members in a dilemma, do they leave the Greens and link up with Corbyn or do they back Polanski and push The Greens further Leftwards?

    JC was great at getting the vote out for Labour, the trouble was he energised the Tory vote even more.

    Surely they need to follow Jezbollah into whatever this new party is called.

    My money is on The Independent Group for Change.
    Peoples' Front of Judea.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,137
    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    I’m watching Children of Men for the first time. Wanted something cheerful and uplifting. Hear it’s a blast

    It's actually very good. One of the few films where I've saw the trailer at the time and not been disappointed by what I ultimately saw. Though not so cheery.

    The book's good too, but is a little different.
    One of my favourite films of all time. Very prescient. @Leon if it's not too late, watch for the one super long camera shot in the last 20 mins or so (complete with blood spattered lens) - spectacular cinematography.

    The book I found very disappointing, but only I think because I was expecting the same story as the film.
    I saw it at the 'big screen' multiplex when it came out - full on HD Dolby THX1138 (yes) sound.

    Boy, did it rip my soul out. Those final 20 minutes with that sound set-up just added to it. Pretty much physically feeling each gunshot and tank blast.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,184
    Scott_xP said:

    @PedderSophie

    Big news. Macron says France will recognise a Palestinian state. He will do this formally at the United Nations GA in New York in September

    https://x.com/PedderSophie/status/1948466345156506082

    Starmer to follow?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,669

    I think the Germans have a word for this.

    A group of far-right Israeli politicians and settlers met in parliament this week to discuss a plan to displace Palestinians from Gaza, annex the territory and turn it into a hi-tech, luxury resort city for Israelis.

    The scheme, titled “The master plan for settlement in the Gaza Strip”, envisions the construction of 850,000 housing units, construction of hi-tech “smart cities” that trade cryptocurrency, and a metro system that runs across the territory. It took its inspiration from an idea shared by the US president, Donald Trump, in February, when he pledged to turn Gaza into the “riviera of the Middle East”.

    The text of the plan, which boasts of the economic benefits to Israel, said: “The right of the people of Israel to settle, develop and preserve this land is not just a historical right – it is a national and security obligation.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/24/far-right-israeli-politicians-and-settlers-discuss-luxury-gaza-riviera-plan

    [Sunil perks up] A metro system?
    Calm down. It's a local metro for local people.
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