FPT My fear for Farage has been that he has not invested enough effort into preparing his case and points ahead of the debates. We will shortly see if Farage has invested the effort. If he went for Clegg would it be on the "trust" matter? Take the tuition u-turn and add in all the duplicity and back stabbing that the LDs have done in coalition? I doubt that he will.
My tenterhooks are in a laver of discombobulation ....
Yes a decision has to made .....
I must debate - madeira or port for after dinner libation ....
Choices .. choices .. choices ..
Have some madeira, m'dear. You really have nothing to fear. I'm not trying to tempt you, that wouldn't be right, You shouldn't drink spirits at this time of night. Have some madeira, m'dear. It's really much nicer than beer. I don't care for sherry, one cannot drink stout, And port is a wine I can well do without... It's simply a case of chacun a son gout Have some madeira, m'dear.
Farage railing against "big business"... another sign he's moving UKIP to a Front National-type leftwing populist economic platform. A very smart move considering his potential voters' views.
The problem for Nick Clegg is, no matter how effective his debating style might be on its own merits, it reminds people of his performance in the 2010 debates....and his performance in the 2010 debates is forever associated with the "betrayal" in the immediate aftermath.
It's incredible that Clegg's ostrich faction of spinners still don't realise that a Blair impersonation just puts off voters now. The hand gestures, the oily delivery, 'the HARD working people' style cadences in the platitudes. If Clegg wants to be seen as something other than a career politician with no principles, imitating Blair is hardly going to do it.
They're not buying in what you would regard as nice areas of central London, but in Battersea and Fulham and Twickenham, where you don't need a million quid to get a reasonable flat (and there are two earners, no children, probably).
You'd be shocked. I just looked at Prince of Wales Drive - what I regard as nice Battersea. 3 bedroom flat, 1,650 square foot: £1.9 million. I nearly bought one 10 years ago for £565,000...
I didn't question (or didn't mean to question) the accuracy of your maths.
However, your statistics are useless in determining the right response to the situation because there are two big anomalies that you refuse to adjust for.
Clegg sounding comically desperate already wittering about moon landings and conspiracies.
Still, we had the 'pleasure' of seeing little Ed and Cammie banging on idiotically about dunces and muppets earlier so the labour and tory spinners rubbishing this will hardly be taken very seriously considering just how 'impressive' those two are.
Dimbleby has twice picked on what Farage has said.
And on 'twitter' Auntie is running an instant rebuttal service - can you spot a theme..?
FACTCHECKING 19:15: Emily Craig Political analyst, BBC News Nick Clegg says half of our exports are to Europe and we buy only 8% of what they sell. Official figures back this up. In 2013, UK exports totalled £304bn, with half (£153bn) going to the EU. We import around 9% of the goods exported within the EU - in 2012 it was £257bn of a total of £2,840bn.
FACTCHECKING 19:12: Emily Craig Political analyst, BBC News This is the car industry report they were talking about. 58% of those surveyed said they wanted to stay in with reform. 34% would stay in regardless. 3% want to leave.
This isn;t a classic ballooon, in that many of the inflators of it are unleveraged wealthy foreigners looking for a bolthole. Increases in interest rates might not necessarily affect them.
Charles, there is also a disconnect in London from house price increases and residential rental rates (+1.6% in 2013).
Yields getting crushed. People continue to buy as a safe haven rather than to make money.
But I was chatting someone the other day. This shift to allow conversion from commercial to residential is bigger than I imagined. He is converting half of a small retail area into 4 flats - and the capital value has increased by £1m as a result. By the time he has done the rest he'll have made £3m clear profit on an investment of about £650,000 about 4 years ago.
Whilst on the madeira theme and filed under "one that got away" I was in an Edinburgh antique shop, many moons back, and I spotted some silver wine labels with one misspelt "medeira". I thought it simply a novelty and although very modestly priced I didn't buy it.
Move on some years and these unusually spelt label make big bucks.
Al-Beeb tickah leads 2-1 on "Dutchie" Clegg against Nigel "Protect my manor" Farage. Has anyone else noticed that Al-Beeb journalists are as reliable as a Puerto-Rican boxing-judge? *
This isn;t a classic ballooon, in that many of the inflators of it are unleveraged wealthy foreigners looking for a bolthole. Increases in interest rates might not necessarily affect them.
That's why it is so difficult to judge when it will deflate. Ghost towns like my area are much more likely.
Clegg's stats are horrendously misleading. Deliberately mixing Manchester and Greater Manchester, comparing British trade to total EU trade in percentage terms. For a straight talker he's deliberately trying to trick people with stats he knows are misleading.
It's going to be fairly shouty all the way through. I still expect Dimblebore to try to wrongfoot one of them sooner or later with some left-field question.
Dimbleby has twice picked on what Farage has said.
And on 'twitter' Auntie is running an instant rebuttal service - can you spot a theme..?
Selecitve quoting theme perhaps?
FACTCHECKING 19:10: Anthony Reuben Head of statistics, BBC News Nigel Farage says "they sell us more than we sell them". In 2013 the UK's exports to the EU totalled £154bn while we imported £218bn worth of goods.
FACTCHECKING 19:26: Emily Craig Political analyst, BBC News Nick Clegg says there aren't 29 million people living in Romania and Bulgaria. The World Bank puts the figure at 28.6 million. I think we might let UKIP round up.
Clegg's stats are horrendously misleading. Deliberately mixing Manchester and Greater Manchester, comparing British trade to total EU trade in percentage terms. For a straight talker he's deliberately trying to trick people with stats he knows are misleading.
Whilst on the madeira theme and filed under "one that got away" I was in an Edinburgh antique shop, many moons back, and I spotted some silver wine labels with one misspelt "medeira". I thought it simply a novelty and although very modestly priced I didn't buy it.
Move on some years and these unusually spelt label make big bucks.
There is a rare variety of Madeira called "Rainwater", Jack.
A silver wine label on an opaque decanter would be fun.
A good way to be economical with the guests? Literally.
Farage railing against "big business"... another sign he's moving UKIP to a Front National-type leftwing populist economic platform. A very smart move considering his potential voters' views.
Farage definitely going for the WWC traditional labour vote tonight.
Whilst on the madeira theme and filed under "one that got away" I was in an Edinburgh antique shop, many moons back, and I spotted some silver wine labels with one misspelt "medeira". I thought it simply a novelty and although very modestly priced I didn't buy it.
Move on some years and these unusually spelt label make big bucks.
There is a rare variety of Madeira called "Rainwater", Jack.
A silver wine label on an opaque decanter would be fun.
This isn;t a classic ballooon, in that many of the inflators of it are unleveraged wealthy foreigners looking for a bolthole. Increases in interest rates might not necessarily affect them.
That's why it is so difficult to judge when it will deflate. Ghost towns like my area are much more likely.
"Ghost towns"
Just go to any scenic area of the country out of season (e.g. the Cornish coast, Derbyshire Peaks) and you will find ghost 'towns'. The rich buy holiday homes but can't face using them in winter.
It's terrible for the young local populations who cannot afford to compete.
F' the mansion tax. Tax - heavily - second homes and rented holiday homes. They do no social good and kill communities.
Farage railing against "big business"... another sign he's moving UKIP to a Front National-type leftwing populist economic platform. A very smart move considering his potential voters' views.
Farage definitely going for the WWC traditional labour vote tonight.
In an OE tie, cut back starched collar and lightly pin-striped worsted suit?
At least the fop chicken is taking on more hefty matters than IN or OUT of Europe.
David Cameron should take his own advice – and shut up about the England football shirts
David Cameron agrees with Helen Grant: the new England football shirt is too expensive. Mrs Grant, the sports minister, said that the £90 price of the shirt by Nike “can’t be right”. The PM’s spokesman says: “He does agree with Helen Grant. I am sure all England fans would welcome a rethink.”
Words fail me. Well, almost.
Where to start with this? How best to explain just how lamentably stupid, cravenly populist and intellectually vacuous this is?
This isn;t a classic ballooon, in that many of the inflators of it are unleveraged wealthy foreigners looking for a bolthole. Increases in interest rates might not necessarily affect them.
That's why it is so difficult to judge when it will deflate. Ghost towns like my area are much more likely.
"Ghost towns"
Just go to any scenic area of the country out of season (e.g. the Cornish coast, Derbyshire Peaks) and you will find ghost 'towns'. The rich buy holiday homes but can't face using them in winter.
It's terrible for the young local populations who cannot afford to compete.
F' the mansion tax. Tax - heavily - second homes and rented holiday homes. They do no social good and kill communities.
The only point I would make is that it is the parents and grandparents of these young people who cant afford to buy houses in rural communities who chose to sell to city slickers at vastly inflated prices for a quick buck. They could have sold to local young people but the sight of London/SE £signs made them reach for the white settlers cash and turn their backs on their own young people. It is exactly the same up here in the Highlands.
YES! Calamity Clegg now banging on about Independence. More please. Much, much more. It's almost as good as having Osbrowne or Cammie banging on about it.
Clearly the BBC couldn't find anyone pro EU - the questions so far have been great for Farage. Interesting to see if they're storing up a 'gotcha' finale
With the first debate, I'd say it was pretty even, but of course as Farage and his opinions are more popular he was bound to win any poll on who 'won' the debate.
This one, Clegg has gotten better as it goes on (well until the questions on EU bureacracy at least), but Farage is really doing well tonight and appreciably better than Clegg I think; I would very much expect Farage to 'win' the debate by a larger margin this time.
However, that being said, there's a reason I put 'win' in inverted commas. I still don't think that harms Clegg, and in fact he's still won as well. It would be much better for him if he'd showed Farage up (but I don't see that happening in the last 15 minutes), but people who support the opinions Clegg is espousing are already in a minority, so him coming off worse in a head to head with Farage may well help galvanise those people a little - it might not, but as as been said before, the LDs are already facing a wipe out in the EU elections. There's literally nothing, however bad, he could say or do which would make the situation worse.
Clearly the BBC couldn't find anyone pro EU - the questions so far have been great for Farage. Interesting to see if they're storing up a 'gotcha' finale
If they were pro-EU questions people would be claiming it was a sign of BBC bias. Since they're good questions for Farage...
Clegg's problem is all his soundbites sound like they're written by and aimed at a small metropolitan elite.
Just as damaging his soundbites sound exactly like soundbites and are delivered exactly like soundbites.
Against almost any other politician than Farage, that would not be a noticable flaw, as it is endemic behaviour in the main parties. Clegg really struggling with these later questions - thank goodness for him in was a potential win-no lose scenario even if he gets whooped.
Comments
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/apr/02/farage-v-clegg-the-debate-for-europe-politics-live-blog
Mrs JackW and I are having something of a novelty tonight .... (make your own jokes there) .... it's called a TV diner ....
Apparently one serves the plated meal on a tray with cutlery and places the tray carefully on ones lap whilst seated in front of the idiot box.
Quite extraordinary ....
My fear for Farage has been that he has not invested enough effort into preparing his case and points ahead of the debates. We will shortly see if Farage has invested the effort. If he went for Clegg would it be on the "trust" matter? Take the tuition u-turn and add in all the duplicity and back stabbing that the LDs have done in coalition? I doubt that he will.
@JackW
I'm all a quiver in anticipation ....
My tenterhooks are in a laver of discombobulation ....
Yes a decision has to made .....
I must debate - madeira or port for after dinner libation ....
Choices .. choices .. choices ..
Have some madeira, m'dear. You really have nothing to fear.
I'm not trying to tempt you, that wouldn't be right,
You shouldn't drink spirits at this time of night.
Have some madeira, m'dear. It's really much nicer than beer.
I don't care for sherry, one cannot drink stout,
And port is a wine I can well do without...
It's simply a case of chacun a son gout
Have some madeira, m'dear.
Ladbrokes constituency odds are currently giving the following numbers:
Lab 305
Con 278
LD 38
SNP 7
Lab short of majority by 21 seats.
@AveryLP and @SimonStClare
Thank you.
http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/04/02/case-ukip-putin/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/10739277/Device-exploded-in-bombers-face-after-he-forgot-about-clocks-changing.html
1:0 to Farage.
I mean we don't want Les Dawson reprised but a bit of humour would make them seem a bit more human, less shrill, less automaton-like.
Do these people not have lifestyle coaches? They've both had a personality bypass.
GO NIGEL
GO NIGEL
It is nothing about substance all about whether you like one or the other and that is determined in the first minute.
Neither are relaxed (fair enough) which has resulted in a wooden, humourless, shrill, shouty performance from both.
They're not buying in what you would regard as nice areas of central London, but in Battersea and Fulham and Twickenham, where you don't need a million quid to get a reasonable flat (and there are two earners, no children, probably).
You'd be shocked. I just looked at Prince of Wales Drive - what I regard as nice Battersea. 3 bedroom flat, 1,650 square foot: £1.9 million. I nearly bought one 10 years ago for £565,000...
http://www.primelocation.com/for-sale/details/31101032?search_identifier=d8e3fafad406cc6fc38a1d53aeb62f23
I didn't question (or didn't mean to question) the accuracy of your maths.
However, your statistics are useless in determining the right response to the situation because there are two big anomalies that you refuse to adjust for.
edit: I see ALP beat me to it...
Perhaps he really is aiming for No. 10?
Still, we had the 'pleasure' of seeing little Ed and Cammie banging on idiotically about dunces and muppets earlier so the labour and tory spinners rubbishing this will hardly be taken very seriously considering just how 'impressive' those two are.
FACTCHECKING 19:15: Emily Craig Political analyst, BBC News
Nick Clegg says half of our exports are to Europe and we buy only 8% of what they sell. Official figures back this up. In 2013, UK exports totalled £304bn, with half (£153bn) going to the EU. We import around 9% of the goods exported within the EU - in 2012 it was £257bn of a total of £2,840bn.
FACTCHECKING 19:12: Emily Craig Political analyst, BBC News
This is the car industry report they were talking about. 58% of those surveyed said they wanted to stay in with reform. 34% would stay in regardless. 3% want to leave.
Still massively more effective than a five minute PPB though.
A bit of advice: when in a hole, stop digging.
This isn;t a classic ballooon, in that many of the inflators of it are unleveraged wealthy foreigners looking for a bolthole. Increases in interest rates might not necessarily affect them.
But I was chatting someone the other day. This shift to allow conversion from commercial to residential is bigger than I imagined. He is converting half of a small retail area into 4 flats - and the capital value has increased by £1m as a result. By the time he has done the rest he'll have made £3m clear profit on an investment of about £650,000 about 4 years ago.
Thanks George!
Whilst on the madeira theme and filed under "one that got away" I was in an Edinburgh antique shop, many moons back, and I spotted some silver wine labels with one misspelt "medeira". I thought it simply a novelty and although very modestly priced I didn't buy it.
Move on some years and these unusually spelt label make big bucks.
Westminster voting intention - Scotland
SNP 34% (+14)
Lab 34% (-8)
Con 18% (+1)
LD 7% (-12)
UKIP 3% (+2)
Grn 2% (+1)
Baxter:
Lab 35 seats (-6 seats)
SNP 20 seats (+14 seats)
Con 2 seats (+1 seat)
LD 2 seats (-9 seats)
http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/140401-Populus_FT-March-2014.pdf
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.pl?CON=18&LAB=34&LIB=7&NAT=34®ion=AllScotland&boundary=2010&seat=All+Scotland+seats+majority-sorted
* No disrespect to Puerto-Rican boxing-judges....
FACTCHECKING
19:10: Anthony Reuben Head of statistics, BBC News Nigel Farage says "they sell us more than we sell them". In 2013 the UK's exports to the EU totalled £154bn while we imported £218bn worth of goods.
FACTCHECKING
19:26: Emily Craig Political analyst, BBC News Nick Clegg says there aren't 29 million people living in Romania and Bulgaria. The World Bank puts the figure at 28.6 million. I think we might let UKIP round up.
Yes 7/2 (various)
No 1/4 (Betfair)
*chortle*
A silver wine label on an opaque decanter would be fun.
A good way to be economical with the guests? Literally.
"Interesting role reversal this week. Farage adopts Clegg's cool, calm, rational style - and Clegg is doing a shouty Farage. #europedebate"
"Farage's anti-immigration, anti-war, anti-EU, anti-big business, anti-politician message undoubtedly will be / is very potent #europedebate"
The proper kipper answer should be:
"Unfurl and open my umbrella".
Shirley Shum Mishtake !!
Just go to any scenic area of the country out of season (e.g. the Cornish coast, Derbyshire Peaks) and you will find ghost 'towns'. The rich buy holiday homes but can't face using them in winter.
It's terrible for the young local populations who cannot afford to compete.
F' the mansion tax. Tax - heavily - second homes and rented holiday homes. They do no social good and kill communities.
David Cameron should take his own advice – and shut up about the England football shirts
David Cameron agrees with Helen Grant: the new England football shirt is too expensive. Mrs Grant, the sports minister, said that the £90 price of the shirt by Nike “can’t be right”. The PM’s spokesman says: “He does agree with Helen Grant. I am sure all England fans would welcome a rethink.”
Words fail me. Well, almost.
Where to start with this? How best to explain just how lamentably stupid, cravenly populist and intellectually vacuous this is?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100265945/david-cameron-should-take-his-own-advice-and-shut-up-about-the-england-football-shirts/
LOL
It's almost as good as having Osbrowne or Cammie banging on about it.
This one, Clegg has gotten better as it goes on (well until the questions on EU bureacracy at least), but Farage is really doing well tonight and appreciably better than Clegg I think; I would very much expect Farage to 'win' the debate by a larger margin this time.
However, that being said, there's a reason I put 'win' in inverted commas. I still don't think that harms Clegg, and in fact he's still won as well. It would be much better for him if he'd showed Farage up (but I don't see that happening in the last 15 minutes), but people who support the opinions Clegg is espousing are already in a minority, so him coming off worse in a head to head with Farage may well help galvanise those people a little - it might not, but as as been said before, the LDs are already facing a wipe out in the EU elections. There's literally nothing, however bad, he could say or do which would make the situation worse.
"I liked Clegg's performance last week because he was reasonable. He's become nasty Nick this week and not so effective #europedebate"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeS9yHxMNO4
Aye, right.
Winning here.