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The Challenge for… Reform UK – politicalbetting.com

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  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,545
    Andy_JS said:

    "Mini black holes could be hiding in your home, scientists warn"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14825399/Mini-black-holes-hiding-HOME.html

    Reeves has more than a couple hiding in the back of her sofa.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,767
    The Telegraph still has the story about the poll with Ref on 34%. Surely they would have taken it down by now if it wasn't genuine.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/21/reform-set-to-win-next-election/
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,779
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Sir Mel Stride has vowed the Tories will never make a pact with Reform as he attacked the party’s “fantasy economics”.

    The shadow chancellor said Nigel Farage’s party would put the economy on “the road to ruin” and said: “I don’t want to be a populist that runs around saying we can do this, that and everything else for you without any plan behind it. I just think that’s recklessness.”

    Sir Mel also attacked Rachel Reeves’s “huge borrowing splurge” to fund spending plans until the next election, but warned that Reform’s pledges were even more “dangerous”.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/15/mel-stride-will-never-do-deal-reform/?recomm_id=26e30f1e-7067-4f73-a47d-e6021521fdd4

    Literally no one cares what "Sir Mel Stride" says or does or thinks. The Tories aren't even in the game, everyone hates them, they have not been forgiven for fourteen years of failure, and may never be. They need to shut up, dissolve themselves, and fold into Reform as some kind of comic subordinate entity

    "Sir Mel Stride". It's ridiculous. His party fucked the country a million times, and allowed in a million migrants a year. Why should we pay an iota of attention? There is zero reason, the Tories are dying and will soon be dead

    Mind you, things aren't that much better for Starmer. Look at his polling in that Ipsos survey

    "Sir Keir Starmer is shown to be the least popular prime minister at this stage of his term in office since Ipsos began compiling such records almost half a century ago. Just 19 per cent of respondents said they were satisfied with the job he is doing, with 73 per cent dissatisfied."

    OUCH
    Immigration is now falling thanks to the reforms Sunak brought in and Stride is more of a fiscal conservative than Farage is.

    Not all Tories would join Reform even if the Conservative party ceased to exist, at least a third of current Tories would go LD in that scenario
    I feel genuinely sorry for honest, loyal Tory party members like you. It's your leaders and MPs that have catastrophically let you down, year after year. Your loyalty has been abused by chancers, morons and wankers

    But, I think this might be Closing Time for the Conservative Party
    Good afternoon

    At least they will have one vote from me [possible 2 with my wife's]

    I simply do not accept Reform are the answer, anymore than Labour, but if it comes about then so be it

    And please do not be sorry for me as at my time of life politics is only a passing interest, as my wife and I pass 63 years together [61 married] and enjoy a wonderful family even with a somewhat failing health outlook
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,067
    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,067
    *coughs nervously*

    Maybe I'll wait a bit for my Russian trip
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,779
    Andy_JS said:

    The Telegraph still has the story about the poll with Ref on 34%. Surely they would have taken it down by now if it wasn't genuine.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/21/reform-set-to-win-next-election/

    It is genuine though a bit older than most [early June]
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,725
    edited 1:39PM
    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    All those $100bns of developing a Stealth bomber and the world can know where they are doing thanks to social media.

    One of the interesting "tricks" that China insists on, all the GPS mapping data they provide to the world is deliberately wrong.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,067
    Andy_JS said:

    The Telegraph still has the story about the poll with Ref on 34%. Surely they would have taken it down by now if it wasn't genuine.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/21/reform-set-to-win-next-election/

    It's true, it's a real poll, just a little stale (fieldwork ended June 4). Odd they've waited so long to release it
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,131
    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,773
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Sir Mel Stride has vowed the Tories will never make a pact with Reform as he attacked the party’s “fantasy economics”.

    The shadow chancellor said Nigel Farage’s party would put the economy on “the road to ruin” and said: “I don’t want to be a populist that runs around saying we can do this, that and everything else for you without any plan behind it. I just think that’s recklessness.”

    Sir Mel also attacked Rachel Reeves’s “huge borrowing splurge” to fund spending plans until the next election, but warned that Reform’s pledges were even more “dangerous”.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/15/mel-stride-will-never-do-deal-reform/?recomm_id=26e30f1e-7067-4f73-a47d-e6021521fdd4

    Literally no one cares what "Sir Mel Stride" says or does or thinks. The Tories aren't even in the game, everyone hates them, they have not been forgiven for fourteen years of failure, and may never be. They need to shut up, dissolve themselves, and fold into Reform as some kind of comic subordinate entity

    "Sir Mel Stride". It's ridiculous. His party fucked the country a million times, and allowed in a million migrants a year. Why should we pay an iota of attention? There is zero reason, the Tories are dying and will soon be dead

    Mind you, things aren't that much better for Starmer. Look at his polling in that Ipsos survey

    "Sir Keir Starmer is shown to be the least popular prime minister at this stage of his term in office since Ipsos began compiling such records almost half a century ago. Just 19 per cent of respondents said they were satisfied with the job he is doing, with 73 per cent dissatisfied."

    OUCH
    Immigration is now falling thanks to the reforms Sunak brought in and Stride is more of a fiscal conservative than Farage is.

    Not all Tories would join Reform even if the Conservative party ceased to exist, at least a third of current Tories would go LD in that scenario
    It is not for that useless oaf to say who the Tory Party will or will not be doing a pact with. Someone might like to point him in the direction of the Government that he's supposed to be opposing - all I see from him is right-on-right attacks.

    Sack him and appoint Hunt. He's had his knighthood - now do one.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,744
    Andy_JS said:

    "Mini black holes could be hiding in your home, scientists warn"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14825399/Mini-black-holes-hiding-HOME.html

    Once you find a black hole in your home, worrying about all the other things the Daily Fail is incessantly alarmist about surely recedes, such that this article is undermining the paper’s USP?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 974

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “Tucker Carlson: “If I were Putin, I would offer free first class trips to Moscow so they could see that Moscow was so much nicer than any place in Great Britain. It's like not even close…It's just weird that they're mad at Putin. Why aren't they mad at Keir Starmer? Britain is so degraded”

    https://x.com/rpsagainsttrump/status/1936249722483658821?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The saddest thing here is that Tucker Carlson has a point. Not so much about Moscow - it’s a showpiece city for a tyranny - but about Britain
    Moscow’s a fascinating place, one of the most interesting cities I’ve visited, but I wouldn’t call it “nice.” A bit bleak and austere, I thought.
    Visited it during USSR times. Bleak indeed especially GUM. My OH & I enjoyed the Bolshoi.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUM_(department_store)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,067
    Andy_JS said:
    Ah, I see they released it to coincide with the anniversary of the GE. Makes sense now
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,262
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Mini black holes could be hiding in your home, scientists warn"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14825399/Mini-black-holes-hiding-HOME.html

    Reeves has more than a couple hiding in the back of her sofa.
    Andy_JS said:

    "Mini black holes could be hiding in your home, scientists warn"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14825399/Mini-black-holes-hiding-HOME.html

    This is surely one of the best "experts warn" stories ever.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,725
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Mini black holes could be hiding in your home, scientists warn"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14825399/Mini-black-holes-hiding-HOME.html

    Reeves has more than a couple hiding in the back of her sofa.
    There is definitely some in our household too, Mrs U swears that is where biccies went.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,779
    Battlebus said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “Tucker Carlson: “If I were Putin, I would offer free first class trips to Moscow so they could see that Moscow was so much nicer than any place in Great Britain. It's like not even close…It's just weird that they're mad at Putin. Why aren't they mad at Keir Starmer? Britain is so degraded”

    https://x.com/rpsagainsttrump/status/1936249722483658821?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The saddest thing here is that Tucker Carlson has a point. Not so much about Moscow - it’s a showpiece city for a tyranny - but about Britain
    Moscow’s a fascinating place, one of the most interesting cities I’ve visited, but I wouldn’t call it “nice.” A bit bleak and austere, I thought.
    Visited it during USSR times. Bleak indeed especially GUM. My OH & I enjoyed the Bolshoi.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUM_(department_store)
    So did we and at the ballet one of the ballerina's fell and the audience booed

    So cruel and unkind
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,067

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    BREAKING:

    6 B-2 stealth bombers are heading west toward Guam.

    The bombers were reportedly refueled shortly after takeoff, strongly indicating they are carrying a heavy payload, likely operational bunker-busting ordnance.

    https://x.com/Currentreport1/status/1936414485587067023
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,788

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    It could be one of JD Vance's anonymous accounts.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,779

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Mini black holes could be hiding in your home, scientists warn"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14825399/Mini-black-holes-hiding-HOME.html

    Reeves has more than a couple hiding in the back of her sofa.
    There is definitely some in our household too, Mrs U swears that is where biccies went.
    Crumbs !!!!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,199
    edited 1:46PM
    Tantric

    Adjective

    "relating to or involving the doctrines or principles of the Hindu or Buddhist tantras, in particular the use of mantras, meditation, yoga, and ritual."

    Not sure Reform would appreciate that sort coming over here.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,346
    viewcode said:

    @GarethoftheVale2 / @Garethofthevale , whichever is the current moniker.

    Thank you for the article. I enjoyed it and its predecessors. I look forward to the next entry, as I'm sure we all do. The published ones in Gareth's "The Challenge For..." series are:

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/06/02/the-challenge-for-labour/
    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/06/12/the-challenge-for-plaid-cymru/
    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/06/21/the-challenge-for-reform-uk/

    I’ve never been convinced voters vote on class, not just today, but have never ever really. Surely people vote on values and outlook that cuts across all classes?

    The Conservative Party always attracted millions of working class voters - more when winning, but still millions when losing. If the Conservative Party is getting 40% or more of working class voters all the time, can you really say Labour own the working classes? I’m not convinced. I think it lazy.

    On YouTube but I can’t find it There is a tribute documentary about the person who wrote Alf Garnet. It’s starts by praising him for brilliant historic television, and asked how did you create this. The creator pulls a wry smile and takes them to interview patrons in one of his favourite Isle of Dogs pub. There were people looking sounding exactly like Alf Garnet but solid Labour, sat round table trashing Lady Thatcher for wrecking Britain, arguing with mates looking sounding exactly like Alf Garnet but solid Tory through and through, praising Maggie for saving Britain from decline, restoring us on world stage, and caring for working classes like bickering Trotsky Labour could never do.

    Did he create it, or observe reality and write the comedy of it down?

    You see it in media all the time “LABOUR IN TROUBLE this poll shows this is working class voters - WORKING CLASS VOTERS - going to Reform.”

    Yeah, but, how do you know that’s not actually the millions solid Tory working class, not many from solid Labour working class? Eh? You stupid stupid thicko journalists?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,651
    dixiedean said:

    Tantric

    Adjective

    "relating to or involving the doctrines or principles of the Hindu or Buddhist tantras, in particular the use of mantras, meditation, yoga, and ritual."

    Not sure Reform would appreciate that coming over here.

    Yogic Lying.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,675
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    BREAKING:

    6 B-2 stealth bombers are heading west toward Guam.

    The bombers were reportedly refueled shortly after takeoff, strongly indicating they are carrying a heavy payload, likely operational bunker-busting ordnance.

    https://x.com/Currentreport1/status/1936414485587067023
    Bombers flew out from Whiteman last night, it looks possible we go tonight
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,067

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    BREAKING:

    6 B-2 stealth bombers are heading west toward Guam.

    The bombers were reportedly refueled shortly after takeoff, strongly indicating they are carrying a heavy payload, likely operational bunker-busting ordnance.

    https://x.com/Currentreport1/status/1936414485587067023
    Bombers flew out from Whiteman last night, it looks possible we go tonight
    Exciting!

    *rubs geopolitical thighs*

    It would be immensely ironic if the main reason that Trump is doing this - if he is doing this - is because he's annoyed by all the TACO jibes
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,773
    dixiedean said:

    Tantric

    Adjective

    "relating to or involving the doctrines or principles of the Hindu or Buddhist tantras, in particular the use of mantras, meditation, yoga, and ritual."

    Not sure Reform would appreciate that sort coming over here.

    Or not coming in this instance.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,262

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    BREAKING:

    6 B-2 stealth bombers are heading west toward Guam.

    The bombers were reportedly refueled shortly after takeoff, strongly indicating they are carrying a heavy payload, likely operational bunker-busting ordnance.

    https://x.com/Currentreport1/status/1936414485587067023
    Bombers flew out from Whiteman last night, it looks possible we go tonight
    Although *we* haven't been consulted, and don't appear to be involved.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,675
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Telegraph still has the story about the poll with Ref on 34%. Surely they would have taken it down by now if it wasn't genuine.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/21/reform-set-to-win-next-election/

    It's true, it's a real poll, just a little stale (fieldwork ended June 4). Odd they've waited so long to release it
    It's on Ipsos website so it's genuine. Very similar to Find Out Now with Ref a touch up from their polling at the time and Con a point lower and LDs lower. It's within MoE of end May polling generally
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,675

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    BREAKING:

    6 B-2 stealth bombers are heading west toward Guam.

    The bombers were reportedly refueled shortly after takeoff, strongly indicating they are carrying a heavy payload, likely operational bunker-busting ordnance.

    https://x.com/Currentreport1/status/1936414485587067023
    Bombers flew out from Whiteman last night, it looks possible we go tonight
    Although *we* haven't been consulted, and don't appear to be involved.
    Yes it's just a turn of phrase not an indication of our involvement
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,262

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    BREAKING:

    6 B-2 stealth bombers are heading west toward Guam.

    The bombers were reportedly refueled shortly after takeoff, strongly indicating they are carrying a heavy payload, likely operational bunker-busting ordnance.

    https://x.com/Currentreport1/status/1936414485587067023
    Bombers flew out from Whiteman last night, it looks possible we go tonight
    Although *we* haven't been consulted, and don't appear to be involved.
    If the US is opposes Europe against Russia in the future, it will be even less we.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,740
    edited 1:51PM

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    Its not like the US defence secretary would tell all his friends, family and associated hangers on, the details in real time is it?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,725
    Pakistan has said it will recommend Donald Trump for the Nobel peace prize for his work in helping to resolve the recent conflict between India and Pakistan.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,262
    If the US opposes Europe against Russia, that should be there.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,740
    edited 1:52PM

    Andy_JS said:

    "Mini black holes could be hiding in your home, scientists warn"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14825399/Mini-black-holes-hiding-HOME.html

    I found a Milky Way behind my sofa the other day...
    That's nothing, there were 10 suns just in the one small newsagents by me this morning, plus quite a few galaxies.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,849
    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    I'll believe it when I see it.

    Under any other President it would have happened by now, but under President Chicken TACO?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,199

    viewcode said:

    @GarethoftheVale2 / @Garethofthevale , whichever is the current moniker.

    Thank you for the article. I enjoyed it and its predecessors. I look forward to the next entry, as I'm sure we all do. The published ones in Gareth's "The Challenge For..." series are:

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/06/02/the-challenge-for-labour/
    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/06/12/the-challenge-for-plaid-cymru/
    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/06/21/the-challenge-for-reform-uk/

    I’ve never been convinced voters vote on class, not just today, but have never ever really. Surely people vote on values and outlook that cuts across all classes?

    The Conservative Party always attracted millions of working class voters - more when winning, but still millions when losing. If the Conservative Party is getting 40% or more of working class voters all the time, can you really say Labour own the working classes? I’m not convinced. I think it lazy.

    On YouTube but I can’t find it There is a tribute documentary about the person who wrote Alf Garnet. It’s starts by praising him for brilliant historic television, and asked how did you create this. The creator pulls a wry smile and takes them to interview patrons in one of his favourite Isle of Dogs pub. There were people looking sounding exactly like Alf Garnet but solid Labour, sat round table trashing Lady Thatcher for wrecking Britain, arguing with mates looking sounding exactly like Alf Garnet but solid Tory through and through, praising Maggie for saving Britain from decline, restoring us on world stage, and caring for working classes like bickering Trotsky Labour could never do.

    Did he create it, or observe reality and write the comedy of it down?

    You see it in media all the time “LABOUR IN TROUBLE this poll shows this is working class voters - WORKING CLASS VOTERS - going to Reform.”

    Yeah, but, how do you know that’s not actually the millions solid Tory working class, not many from solid Labour working class? Eh? You stupid stupid thicko journalists?
    In the Fifties it used to be that a third of working class voters voted Tory, and a tenth of the rest voted Labour.
    This left the Parties roughly equal.
    The class element has declined ever since then.
    You can work out voting intentions by numerous other more significant metrics nowadays.
    Most especially "Is it more important for a child to be obedient or kind?"
    It's a remarkably sticky idea, mind.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,067

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    BREAKING:

    6 B-2 stealth bombers are heading west toward Guam.

    The bombers were reportedly refueled shortly after takeoff, strongly indicating they are carrying a heavy payload, likely operational bunker-busting ordnance.

    https://x.com/Currentreport1/status/1936414485587067023
    Bombers flew out from Whiteman last night, it looks possible we go tonight
    Although *we* haven't been consulted, and don't appear to be involved.
    We have certainly been consulted because they are using Diego Garcia, and they can only do that with our permission. This may be a technicality (would we ever refuse?), but it is honoured
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,651
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Ah, I see they released it to coincide with the anniversary of the GE. Makes sense now
    First anniversary is on 4th July.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,849

    Andy_JS said:

    "Mini black holes could be hiding in your home, scientists warn"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14825399/Mini-black-holes-hiding-HOME.html

    I found a Milky Way behind my sofa the other day...
    That's nothing, there were 10 suns just in the one small newsagents by me this morning, plus quite a few galaxies.
    You weren't in Liverpool then.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,030

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Telegraph still has the story about the poll with Ref on 34%. Surely they would have taken it down by now if it wasn't genuine.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/21/reform-set-to-win-next-election/

    It's true, it's a real poll, just a little stale (fieldwork ended June 4). Odd they've waited so long to release it
    It's on Ipsos website so it's genuine. Very similar to Find Out Now with Ref a touch up from their polling at the time and Con a point lower and LDs lower. It's within MoE of end May polling generally
    Kieran Pedley the new Matthew Goodwin
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,418
    I predict England will win this match by an innings.

    I feel it in my waters.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,849
    edited 1:56PM
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    BREAKING:

    6 B-2 stealth bombers are heading west toward Guam.

    The bombers were reportedly refueled shortly after takeoff, strongly indicating they are carrying a heavy payload, likely operational bunker-busting ordnance.

    https://x.com/Currentreport1/status/1936414485587067023
    Bombers flew out from Whiteman last night, it looks possible we go tonight
    Exciting!

    *rubs geopolitical thighs*

    It would be immensely ironic if the main reason that Trump is doing this - if he is doing this - is because he's annoyed by all the TACO jibes
    I'm loving the TACO meme. Suits him well!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,203

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    All those $100bns of developing a Stealth bomber and the world can know where they are doing thanks to social media.

    One of the interesting "tricks" that China insists on, all the GPS mapping data they provide to the world is deliberately wrong.
    One of the first things that US recon satellites were used for was creating accurate maps of the USSR.

    The second thing was as an accurate gravimetric model of the world. Gravity varies slightly from locality to locality - things like basalt have higher density.

    You need both to accurately target missiles.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,725
    edited 1:57PM

    I predict England will win this match by an innings.

    I feel it in my waters.

    Overcast conditions, floodlights on, moisture in the air and Jasprit Bumrah at the top of his mark.....
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,675
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Telegraph still has the story about the poll with Ref on 34%. Surely they would have taken it down by now if it wasn't genuine.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/21/reform-set-to-win-next-election/

    It's true, it's a real poll, just a little stale (fieldwork ended June 4). Odd they've waited so long to release it
    It's on Ipsos website so it's genuine. Very similar to Find Out Now with Ref a touch up from their polling at the time and Con a point lower and LDs lower. It's within MoE of end May polling generally
    Kieran Pedley the new Matthew Goodwin
    It's not that jaw dropping. Reform one point above their previous best, Tories one below a score they got with three other pollsters around the same time, Lab in line, LDs a little low, greens on average.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,607
    edited 2:00PM
    Photo for the day: grey clouds break the heatwave at Hilly Fields midsummer fair (they spell it “Fayre” to channel a bit of olde England).

    Coconut shy, bric-à-brac stalls, a petting zoo area, central arena with competitions like cutest dog, and various food vans. A few Palestine flags fluttering in the midsummer breeze.




  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,651

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    BREAKING:

    6 B-2 stealth bombers are heading west toward Guam.

    The bombers were reportedly refueled shortly after takeoff, strongly indicating they are carrying a heavy payload, likely operational bunker-busting ordnance.

    https://x.com/Currentreport1/status/1936414485587067023
    Bombers flew out from Whiteman last night, it looks possible we go tonight
    Although *we* haven't been consulted, and don't appear to be involved.
    Yes it's just a turn of phrase not an indication of our involvement
    In Star Trek 2, Mr Spock cautions the Away Team led by Capt. Kirk:

    "Jim, be careful!"

    An indignant Dr McCoy then quips:

    "WE will!"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,203
    edited 2:01PM

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    There are plane spotters camped outside the Whitman fence. Any time something takes off, they report it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,651

    I predict England will win this match by an innings.

    I feel it in my waters.

    Come on, Indi... er, I mean England! (Ooops!)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,067
    OK this is a betting site, let's put some numbers down

    I reckon it's a 68% chance they are going for the Fordow nuclear mountain, and they bomb in the next 36 hours

    I reckon it's a 74% chance that if they do bomb, they successfully destroy it entirely, probably aided by Israeli special ops

    However I reckon it's only a 14% chance that this turns into a global nuclear conflagration which rages around the world in a satanic firestorm of death, and all of humanity is exterminated as our eyeballs literally melt like weird goo down our ashen faces. Maybe 15%

    Willing to take bets on each
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,545

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    There are plane spotters camped outside the Whitman fence. Any time something takes off, they report it.
    Yeah, people have eyes, and stealth planes aren’t actually invisible.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,725
    Does Crawley need dropping from England side?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,651
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    There are plane spotters camped outside the Whitman fence. Any time something takes off, they report it.
    Yeah, people have eyes, and stealth planes aren’t actually invisible.
    They're not?? The USAF should ask for its money back, then!!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,725
    England rugby game is only on RugbyPass and predictably the website is crashing under the volume of traffic....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,788
    How big an explosion would it be if they hit Fordow? Could it be a potential Krakatoa?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,545

    How big an explosion would it be if they hit Fordow? Could it be a potential Krakatoa?

    No, that was about 500 MT, 10x the biggest bomb ever detonated.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,220
    Leon said:

    OK this is a betting site, let's put some numbers down

    I reckon it's a 68% chance they are going for the Fordow nuclear mountain, and they bomb in the next 36 hours

    I reckon it's a 74% chance that if they do bomb, they successfully destroy it entirely, probably aided by Israeli special ops

    However I reckon it's only a 14% chance that this turns into a global nuclear conflagration which rages around the world in a satanic firestorm of death, and all of humanity is exterminated as our eyeballs literally melt like weird goo down our ashen faces. Maybe 15%

    Willing to take bets on each

    If they have already taken off then where are they going that takes 36 hours?

    And I can't see the isolationists wanting to get involved and I can't see the cold warriors wanting to tell Russia and China that tactical nukes are fair dinkum in an undeclared war.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,262
    Leon said:

    OK this is a betting site, let's put some numbers down

    I reckon it's a 68% chance they are going for the Fordow nuclear mountain, and they bomb in the next 36 hours

    I reckon it's a 74% chance that if they do bomb, they successfully destroy it entirely, probably aided by Israeli special ops

    However I reckon it's only a 14% chance that this turns into a global nuclear conflagration which rages around the world in a satanic firestorm of death, and all of humanity is exterminated as our eyeballs literally melt like weird goo down our ashen faces. Maybe 15%

    Willing to take bets on each

    Only one group of musicans may know the answer.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAXzzHM8zLw&pp=ygUVc3BpbmFsIHRhcCBzdG9uZWhlbmdl
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,203

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    There are plane spotters camped outside the Whitman fence. Any time something takes off, they report it.
    Yeah, people have eyes, and stealth planes aren’t actually invisible.
    They're not?? The USAF should ask for its money back, then!!
    That’s why the USAF actually calls it Low Observable, not Stealth. LO refers to signature reduction across the electromagnetic spectrum as well as noise reduction.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,346
    edited 2:13PM
    Leon said:

    OK this is a betting site, let's put some numbers down

    I reckon it's a 68% chance they are going for the Fordow nuclear mountain, and they bomb in the next 36 hours

    I reckon it's a 74% chance that if they do bomb, they successfully destroy it entirely, probably aided by Israeli special ops

    However I reckon it's only a 14% chance that this turns into a global nuclear conflagration which rages around the world in a satanic firestorm of death, and all of humanity is exterminated as our eyeballs literally melt like weird goo down our ashen faces. Maybe 15%

    Willing to take bets on each

    “ melt like weird goo down our ashen face”

    It better not I’ve just put a clean top on!

    I’m thinking it’s longer odds the bunker busting bombs can actually do this one.

    I think they actually need to deploy ground troops at the site, seize and hold whilst dismantle it take it away and blow rest up from inside. What % chance Moonrabbits operation is the eventual solution?

    Trump will give Starmer a medal for the part newly long term secured Garcia plays.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,849

    Leon said:

    OK this is a betting site, let's put some numbers down

    I reckon it's a 68% chance they are going for the Fordow nuclear mountain, and they bomb in the next 36 hours

    I reckon it's a 74% chance that if they do bomb, they successfully destroy it entirely, probably aided by Israeli special ops

    However I reckon it's only a 14% chance that this turns into a global nuclear conflagration which rages around the world in a satanic firestorm of death, and all of humanity is exterminated as our eyeballs literally melt like weird goo down our ashen faces. Maybe 15%

    Willing to take bets on each

    If they have already taken off then where are they going that takes 36 hours?

    And I can't see the isolationists wanting to get involved and I can't see the cold warriors wanting to tell Russia and China that tactical nukes are fair dinkum in an undeclared war.
    The isolationists in general aren't an issue, they'll swallow whatever Trump offers them.

    The bigger problem is that TACO is one of them himself.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,545

    Leon said:

    OK this is a betting site, let's put some numbers down

    I reckon it's a 68% chance they are going for the Fordow nuclear mountain, and they bomb in the next 36 hours

    I reckon it's a 74% chance that if they do bomb, they successfully destroy it entirely, probably aided by Israeli special ops

    However I reckon it's only a 14% chance that this turns into a global nuclear conflagration which rages around the world in a satanic firestorm of death, and all of humanity is exterminated as our eyeballs literally melt like weird goo down our ashen faces. Maybe 15%

    Willing to take bets on each

    If they have already taken off then where are they going that takes 36 hours?

    And I can't see the isolationists wanting to get involved and I can't see the cold warriors wanting to tell Russia and China that tactical nukes are fair dinkum in an undeclared war.
    e.g. a previous 44 hour bombing raid:

    https://www.airandspaceforces.com/PDF/MagazineArchive/Documents/2016/December 2016/1216hours.pdf
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,725
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    OK this is a betting site, let's put some numbers down

    I reckon it's a 68% chance they are going for the Fordow nuclear mountain, and they bomb in the next 36 hours

    I reckon it's a 74% chance that if they do bomb, they successfully destroy it entirely, probably aided by Israeli special ops

    However I reckon it's only a 14% chance that this turns into a global nuclear conflagration which rages around the world in a satanic firestorm of death, and all of humanity is exterminated as our eyeballs literally melt like weird goo down our ashen faces. Maybe 15%

    Willing to take bets on each

    If they have already taken off then where are they going that takes 36 hours?

    And I can't see the isolationists wanting to get involved and I can't see the cold warriors wanting to tell Russia and China that tactical nukes are fair dinkum in an undeclared war.
    e.g. a previous 44 hour bombing raid:

    https://www.airandspaceforces.com/PDF/MagazineArchive/Documents/2016/December 2016/1216hours.pdf
    Must have been absolutely off their tits on speed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,203

    How big an explosion would it be if they hit Fordow? Could it be a potential Krakatoa?

    Unless the Iranians have actually constructed a no-point safe nuclear bomb - a nuclear bomb that can yield significantly with a single point of detonation* - there is no possibility of a nuclear explosion from merely blowing up a pile of enriched uranium.

    There is a vanishingly tiny possibly that in the aftermath of a collapse, if the enriched material was stored very close together *and* the site flooded, they could end up with an Oklo style nuclear reactor, bubbling away under the mountain. But that would require something idiotic, like keeping all the material in a single room.

    *The UK Violet Club was very, very unsafe. You could get Nagasaki just if a plane crashed with the bomb in the wrong state. The 1950s RAF said it was too dangerous.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,725
    England do know this isn't an ODI...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,203

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    OK this is a betting site, let's put some numbers down

    I reckon it's a 68% chance they are going for the Fordow nuclear mountain, and they bomb in the next 36 hours

    I reckon it's a 74% chance that if they do bomb, they successfully destroy it entirely, probably aided by Israeli special ops

    However I reckon it's only a 14% chance that this turns into a global nuclear conflagration which rages around the world in a satanic firestorm of death, and all of humanity is exterminated as our eyeballs literally melt like weird goo down our ashen faces. Maybe 15%

    Willing to take bets on each

    If they have already taken off then where are they going that takes 36 hours?

    And I can't see the isolationists wanting to get involved and I can't see the cold warriors wanting to tell Russia and China that tactical nukes are fair dinkum in an undeclared war.
    e.g. a previous 44 hour bombing raid:

    https://www.airandspaceforces.com/PDF/MagazineArchive/Documents/2016/December 2016/1216hours.pdf
    Must have been absolutely off their tits on speed.
    Lawn chairs. From Walmart. They take turns having a kip on one on long flights, on the B2.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,651
    Ouch!

    Jack Draper loses Queen's Club semi against Czech Jiri Lehecka.

    6-4, 4-6, 7-5.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,849

    How big an explosion would it be if they hit Fordow? Could it be a potential Krakatoa?

    Unless the Iranians have actually constructed a no-point safe nuclear bomb - a nuclear bomb that can yield significantly with a single point of detonation* - there is no possibility of a nuclear explosion from merely blowing up a pile of enriched uranium.

    There is a vanishingly tiny possibly that in the aftermath of a collapse, if the enriched material was stored very close together *and* the site flooded, they could end up with an Oklo style nuclear reactor, bubbling away under the mountain. But that would require something idiotic, like keeping all the material in a single room.

    *The UK Violet Club was very, very unsafe. You could get Nagasaki just if a plane crashed with the bomb in the wrong state. The 1950s RAF said it was too dangerous.
    Sounds like a fun science experiment.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,346
    dixiedean said:

    Tantric

    Adjective

    "relating to or involving the doctrines or principles of the Hindu or Buddhist tantras, in particular the use of mantras, meditation, yoga, and ritual."

    Not sure Reform would appreciate that sort coming over here.

    Tantric Sex.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,651

    How big an explosion would it be if they hit Fordow? Could it be a potential Krakatoa?

    Plenty of scope for triggering earthquakes along the many fault lines.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,431

    Does Crawley need dropping from England side?

    He appears to need being dropped several times to make very many runs.
    Unfortunately the catch stuck.
  • onepureradgeonepureradge Posts: 46
    Battlebus said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “Tucker Carlson: “If I were Putin, I would offer free first class trips to Moscow so they could see that Moscow was so much nicer than any place in Great Britain. It's like not even close…It's just weird that they're mad at Putin. Why aren't they mad at Keir Starmer? Britain is so degraded”

    https://x.com/rpsagainsttrump/status/1936249722483658821?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The saddest thing here is that Tucker Carlson has a point. Not so much about Moscow - it’s a showpiece city for a tyranny - but about Britain
    Moscow’s a fascinating place, one of the most interesting cities I’ve visited, but I wouldn’t call it “nice.” A bit bleak and austere, I thought.
    Visited it during USSR times. Bleak indeed especially GUM. My OH & I enjoyed the Bolshoi.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUM_(department_store)
    Standing outside St. Basil’s Cathedral and wondering about what lunatic/genius could have designed it, is worth the money it costs to get to Moscow. IMHO the most wonderful building in the world. ( I never went inside. No idea if it is functional or not )

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,849

    England do know this isn't an ODI...

    ... worse, they think its the Hundred.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,725
    Nigelb said:

    Does Crawley need dropping from England side?

    He appears to need being dropped several times to make very many runs.
    Unfortunately the catch stuck.
    Zak Crawley has been dismissed inside the first 10 overs in 45 of his 99 Test innings - the most by any batter since his debut.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,203

    How big an explosion would it be if they hit Fordow? Could it be a potential Krakatoa?

    Unless the Iranians have actually constructed a no-point safe nuclear bomb - a nuclear bomb that can yield significantly with a single point of detonation* - there is no possibility of a nuclear explosion from merely blowing up a pile of enriched uranium.

    There is a vanishingly tiny possibly that in the aftermath of a collapse, if the enriched material was stored very close together *and* the site flooded, they could end up with an Oklo style nuclear reactor, bubbling away under the mountain. But that would require something idiotic, like keeping all the material in a single room.

    *The UK Violet Club was very, very unsafe. You could get Nagasaki just if a plane crashed with the bomb in the wrong state. The 1950s RAF said it was too dangerous.
    Sounds like a fun science experiment.
    Violet Club? Don’t drop it…

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,849

    How big an explosion would it be if they hit Fordow? Could it be a potential Krakatoa?

    Unless the Iranians have actually constructed a no-point safe nuclear bomb - a nuclear bomb that can yield significantly with a single point of detonation* - there is no possibility of a nuclear explosion from merely blowing up a pile of enriched uranium.

    There is a vanishingly tiny possibly that in the aftermath of a collapse, if the enriched material was stored very close together *and* the site flooded, they could end up with an Oklo style nuclear reactor, bubbling away under the mountain. But that would require something idiotic, like keeping all the material in a single room.

    *The UK Violet Club was very, very unsafe. You could get Nagasaki just if a plane crashed with the bomb in the wrong state. The 1950s RAF said it was too dangerous.
    Sounds like a fun science experiment.
    Violet Club? Don’t drop it…

    The second paragraph, getting a liquefied Fordow bubbling away. Sounds fun.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,651

    England do know this isn't an ODI...

    ... worse, they think its the Hundred.
    You mean H******?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,760

    Leon said:

    OK this is a betting site, let's put some numbers down

    I reckon it's a 68% chance they are going for the Fordow nuclear mountain, and they bomb in the next 36 hours

    I reckon it's a 74% chance that if they do bomb, they successfully destroy it entirely, probably aided by Israeli special ops

    However I reckon it's only a 14% chance that this turns into a global nuclear conflagration which rages around the world in a satanic firestorm of death, and all of humanity is exterminated as our eyeballs literally melt like weird goo down our ashen faces. Maybe 15%

    Willing to take bets on each

    If they have already taken off then where are they going that takes 36 hours?

    And I can't see the isolationists wanting to get involved and I can't see the cold warriors wanting to tell Russia and China that tactical nukes are fair dinkum in an undeclared war.
    The isolationists in general aren't an issue, they'll swallow whatever Trump offers them.

    The bigger problem is that TACO is one of them himself.
    The only "ist" he is is narcissist.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,418
    edited 2:40PM
    Boo and hiss.

    Ipsos are only carrying out online polls from now on, no more phone polls.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,431
    edited 2:42PM
    After Modi says the US had bupkis to do with peace negotiations, Karachi has clearly sensed an opportunity to gain Trump's favour.

    Pakistan to nominate Donald Trump for Nobel peace prize
    Islamabad says US president helped resolve India conflict but critic says ‘Israel’s sugar daddy in Gaza’ not candidate for any prize
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/21/pakistan-trump-nobel-prize-recommendation-india-ceasefire

    Or they just have a wicked sense of humour.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,262
    Erdigan says "the fate of Tehran and Istanbul are one."
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,403

    Erdigan says "the fate of Tehran and Istanbul are one."

    another nutter
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,955

    How big an explosion would it be if they hit Fordow? Could it be a potential Krakatoa?

    Unless the Iranians have actually constructed a no-point safe nuclear bomb - a nuclear bomb that can yield significantly with a single point of detonation* - there is no possibility of a nuclear explosion from merely blowing up a pile of enriched uranium.

    There is a vanishingly tiny possibly that in the aftermath of a collapse, if the enriched material was stored very close together *and* the site flooded, they could end up with an Oklo style nuclear reactor, bubbling away under the mountain. But that would require something idiotic, like keeping all the material in a single room.

    *The UK Violet Club was very, very unsafe. You could get Nagasaki just if a plane crashed with the bomb in the wrong state. The 1950s RAF said it was too dangerous.
    Not a bomb, but geologists think that there were natural nuclear reactors. One is known to have existed in Gabon a couple of billion years ago:
    https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/meet-oklo-the-earths-two-billion-year-old-only-known-natural-nuclear-reactor
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,767
    Nigelb said:

    Does Crawley need dropping from England side?

    He appears to need being dropped several times to make very many runs.
    Unfortunately the catch stuck.
    I watched Crawley get two ducks in the same day at Edgbaston last year in a county match.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,220

    Leon said:

    OK this is a betting site, let's put some numbers down

    I reckon it's a 68% chance they are going for the Fordow nuclear mountain, and they bomb in the next 36 hours

    I reckon it's a 74% chance that if they do bomb, they successfully destroy it entirely, probably aided by Israeli special ops

    However I reckon it's only a 14% chance that this turns into a global nuclear conflagration which rages around the world in a satanic firestorm of death, and all of humanity is exterminated as our eyeballs literally melt like weird goo down our ashen faces. Maybe 15%

    Willing to take bets on each

    If they have already taken off then where are they going that takes 36 hours?

    And I can't see the isolationists wanting to get involved and I can't see the cold warriors wanting to tell Russia and China that tactical nukes are fair dinkum in an undeclared war.
    The isolationists in general aren't an issue, they'll swallow whatever Trump offers them.

    The bigger problem is that TACO is one of them himself.
    USAF flies over to distract Iran while IDF conducts a ground raid. No American shots fired. Everyone is happy.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,955

    Leon said:

    OK this is a betting site, let's put some numbers down

    I reckon it's a 68% chance they are going for the Fordow nuclear mountain, and they bomb in the next 36 hours

    I reckon it's a 74% chance that if they do bomb, they successfully destroy it entirely, probably aided by Israeli special ops

    However I reckon it's only a 14% chance that this turns into a global nuclear conflagration which rages around the world in a satanic firestorm of death, and all of humanity is exterminated as our eyeballs literally melt like weird goo down our ashen faces. Maybe 15%

    Willing to take bets on each

    If they have already taken off then where are they going that takes 36 hours?

    And I can't see the isolationists wanting to get involved and I can't see the cold warriors wanting to tell Russia and China that tactical nukes are fair dinkum in an undeclared war.
    The isolationists in general aren't an issue, they'll swallow whatever Trump offers them.

    The bigger problem is that TACO is one of them himself.
    USAF flies over to distract Iran while IDF conducts a ground raid. No American shots fired. Everyone is happy.
    Knowing Trump's rather peculiar swings of mood, can we rule out his bombing Israel?

    (Either through malice, stupidity, or pointing to the wrong place on a map...)
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,378

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “Tucker Carlson: “If I were Putin, I would offer free first class trips to Moscow so they could see that Moscow was so much nicer than any place in Great Britain. It's like not even close…It's just weird that they're mad at Putin. Why aren't they mad at Keir Starmer? Britain is so degraded”

    https://x.com/rpsagainsttrump/status/1936249722483658821?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The saddest thing here is that Tucker Carlson has a point. Not so much about Moscow - it’s a showpiece city for a tyranny - but about Britain
    Moscow’s a fascinating place, one of the most interesting cities I’ve visited, but I wouldn’t call it “nice.” A bit bleak and austere, I thought.
    I haven't been to Moscow for 20 years. All my recent visits were to St Petersburg and the north

    I am highly minded to go back. Could be a Gazette article in seeing is Tucker is right
    Moscow is the centre of the Russian Empire that stays rich by extracting wealth from the rest of Russia. It’s entirely unsurprising that it appears wealthy - it is! Meanwhile vast swathes of Russia don’t even have paved roads.
    Even some "cities" don't have proper paved roads. They have half empty decaying concrete buildings.

    The best comparison for a city like Norilisk is Johannesburg. Crime ridden, poor, corrupt, with infrastructure that increasingly fails and sinking ever further into the abyss.
    OK I just checked

    You're talking nonsense

    Here is street life in Omsk in August 2024. Omsk is an industrial city in Siberia, so one might expect it to be grim. And certainly there is a lot of concrete and the pavements are sometimes shabby. But there are also shiny new shops, it all looks orderly, there is - note this - almost no litter or graffiti. Is this really vastly worse than one of the poorer industrial cities in Britain?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FM2G8rPx1s

    I'm not convinced. What it certainly isn't, is Johannesburg
    Fun fact: British military advisors were stationed in Omsk during the Russian Civil War, but only for about 6 months before the Reds defeated the White regional government based there.
    So Omsk is British?
    Along with Baku which the British held alongside the Armenians against the Turks for several weeks in 1918. There was even a small British fleet on the Caspian Sea.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,067

    Erdigan says "the fate of Tehran and Istanbul are one."

    What does Erdogan gain from this? Peculiar. Is it simple Islamic loyalty? Something he feels he must say, and pay lip service? Or some deeper strategic move?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,725

    Leon said:

    OK this is a betting site, let's put some numbers down

    I reckon it's a 68% chance they are going for the Fordow nuclear mountain, and they bomb in the next 36 hours

    I reckon it's a 74% chance that if they do bomb, they successfully destroy it entirely, probably aided by Israeli special ops

    However I reckon it's only a 14% chance that this turns into a global nuclear conflagration which rages around the world in a satanic firestorm of death, and all of humanity is exterminated as our eyeballs literally melt like weird goo down our ashen faces. Maybe 15%

    Willing to take bets on each

    If they have already taken off then where are they going that takes 36 hours?

    And I can't see the isolationists wanting to get involved and I can't see the cold warriors wanting to tell Russia and China that tactical nukes are fair dinkum in an undeclared war.
    The isolationists in general aren't an issue, they'll swallow whatever Trump offers them.

    The bigger problem is that TACO is one of them himself.
    USAF flies over to distract Iran while IDF conducts a ground raid. No American shots fired. Everyone is happy.
    Knowing Trump's rather peculiar swings of mood, can we rule out his bombing Israel?

    (Either through malice, stupidity, or pointing to the wrong place on a map...)
    Particularly if it is written מְדִינַת יִשְׂרָאֵל
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,955

    viewcode said:

    @GarethoftheVale2 / @Garethofthevale , whichever is the current moniker.

    Thank you for the article. I enjoyed it and its predecessors. I look forward to the next entry, as I'm sure we all do. The published ones in Gareth's "The Challenge For..." series are:

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/06/02/the-challenge-for-labour/
    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/06/12/the-challenge-for-plaid-cymru/
    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/06/21/the-challenge-for-reform-uk/

    I’ve never been convinced voters vote on class, not just today, but have never ever really. Surely people vote on values and outlook that cuts across all classes?

    The Conservative Party always attracted millions of working class voters - more when winning, but still millions when losing. If the Conservative Party is getting 40% or more of working class voters all the time, can you really say Labour own the working classes? I’m not convinced. I think it lazy.

    On YouTube but I can’t find it There is a tribute documentary about the person who wrote Alf Garnet. It’s starts by praising him for brilliant historic television, and asked how did you create this. The creator pulls a wry smile and takes them to interview patrons in one of his favourite Isle of Dogs pub. There were people looking sounding exactly like Alf Garnet but solid Labour, sat round table trashing Lady Thatcher for wrecking Britain, arguing with mates looking sounding exactly like Alf Garnet but solid Tory through and through, praising Maggie for saving Britain from decline, restoring us on world stage, and caring for working classes like bickering Trotsky Labour could never do.

    Did he create it, or observe reality and write the comedy of it down?

    You see it in media all the time “LABOUR IN TROUBLE this poll shows this is working class voters - WORKING CLASS VOTERS - going to Reform.”

    Yeah, but, how do you know that’s not actually the millions solid Tory working class, not many from solid Labour working class? Eh? You stupid stupid thicko journalists?
    When I lived on the Isle of Dogs over thirty years ago, there were few of what I would call 'genuine' pubs left. The Gun (though I'm unsure it was called that back then...) by the river on the eastern side of the island was one.

    I wonder which pub he took the documentary crew to in order to get these authentic people?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,378
    edited 3:02PM
    Leon said:

    Erdigan says "the fate of Tehran and Istanbul are one."

    What does Erdogan gain from this? Peculiar. Is it simple Islamic loyalty? Something he feels he must say, and pay lip service? Or some deeper strategic move?
    There is a lot of overlap in population between South East Turkey and North West Iran. And the Iranians have been important in keeping the Kurdish sepratists oppressed so making it easier for Turkey to do the same on their side of the border.

    Having seen what happened with the Kurds after Iraq fell apart I am not surprised the Turks want to avoid the same fate befalling Iran.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,046
    edited 3:02PM
    The foghorns in the Firth are doing my head in. It's been over 12 hours now. At least the haar seems to be clearing.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,046

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Strong rumours on X that US stealth bombers are now heading - "heavily loaded" - towards Iran. Looks like this could be it

    How could anyone on X possibly know that?
    BREAKING:

    6 B-2 stealth bombers are heading west toward Guam.

    The bombers were reportedly refueled shortly after takeoff, strongly indicating they are carrying a heavy payload, likely operational bunker-busting ordnance.

    https://x.com/Currentreport1/status/1936414485587067023
    Bombers flew out from Whiteman last night, it looks possible we go tonight
    Even if all this is true, you'd expect the USAF to keep people guessing with exercises that look like this, particularly if Trump is pushing hard for a deal.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,102
    The US planes are flying to Guam. Not Diego Garcia

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1936430152788951499?s=61
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,418
    Leon said:

    Erdigan says "the fate of Tehran and Istanbul are one."

    What does Erdogan gain from this? Peculiar. Is it simple Islamic loyalty? Something he feels he must say, and pay lip service? Or some deeper strategic move?
    Turkey shares a border with Iran, if the Iranian regime is toppled or Iran gets nuked there's going be plenty of Iranians fleeing to other countries.

    Turkey will be one place they go.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,779
    Eabhal said:

    The foghorns in the Firth are doing my head in. It's been over 12 hours now. At least the haar seems to be clearing.

    My teenage years in Berwick saw my first experience with haars, and sometimes they would stay for days, even weeks
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,067

    Leon said:

    Erdigan says "the fate of Tehran and Istanbul are one."

    What does Erdogan gain from this? Peculiar. Is it simple Islamic loyalty? Something he feels he must say, and pay lip service? Or some deeper strategic move?
    Turkey shares a border with Iran, if the Iranian regime is toppled or Iran gets nuked there's going be plenty of Iranians fleeing to other countries.

    Turkey will be one place they go.
    Interesting answer. And true, of course
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,545
    Taz said:

    The US planes are flying to Guam. Not Diego Garcia

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1936430152788951499?s=61

    Guam is on the way to Diego Garcia.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,203

    How big an explosion would it be if they hit Fordow? Could it be a potential Krakatoa?

    Unless the Iranians have actually constructed a no-point safe nuclear bomb - a nuclear bomb that can yield significantly with a single point of detonation* - there is no possibility of a nuclear explosion from merely blowing up a pile of enriched uranium.

    There is a vanishingly tiny possibly that in the aftermath of a collapse, if the enriched material was stored very close together *and* the site flooded, they could end up with an Oklo style nuclear reactor, bubbling away under the mountain. But that would require something idiotic, like keeping all the material in a single room.

    *The UK Violet Club was very, very unsafe. You could get Nagasaki just if a plane crashed with the bomb in the wrong state. The 1950s RAF said it was too dangerous.
    Sounds like a fun science experiment.
    Violet Club? Don’t drop it…

    The second paragraph, getting a liquefied Fordow bubbling away. Sounds fun.
    If Oklo is any indication, it would bubble away gently in the heart of the mountain for millions of years at a low rate. It would probably pulse - the reaction would poison itself with daughter isotopes (Xenon) and water would be driven off as steam. Then, a few hours later it would restart.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor
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