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Reforming the economy – politicalbetting.com

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  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,199
    Full magnets could end up being one of Trump's most successful coinages, I suspect. It's the sheer chunky, tangible and childish boosterism of it.

    "I've got all the whole big heavy action fighter fleet in my box, and you've only got the cheaper ones, so Nerr ! "
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,350
    edited June 11

    Rachel will be in heaven. She's finished her speech, and the PB commentariat are signalling more indifference than "resign now" fury.
    Such commentary as there is is pretty evenly balanced.

    Because no full detail has yet been released or looked at. How its viewed by lunchtime tomorrow will be more instructive
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,317
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Review of Green Book: "No region will have Green Book guidance wielded against it" - that ... could be significant. Interesting and needs digging into.

    Details here.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/green-book-review-2025-findings-and-actions

    At first glance, I approve overall.
    Thanks. Any specific reasons for your approval?
    A general degree of common sense; nothing magical.
    Of course the devil will be in the implementation.

    "..Place-based business cases will make sure that the government properly assesses the complementarities between different projects, such as housing and transport..."

    "..HM Treasury will commission an independent review of the Green Book discount rate to make sure that the government is taking a fair view of the long- term benefits that arise from transformational investments.."

    "It will make clear that the Green Book does not endorse the use of arbitrary ‘BCR thresholds’. It will outline that a BCR of less than one does not automatically
    constitute poor value for money. HM Treasury does not simply rank different projects, with different objectives, by their BCRs as a means of allocating funding.."

    "HM Treasury will radically simplify and shorten the Green Book and the
    accompanying business case guides, publishing an updated Green Book at the start of 2026. HM Treasury will make clear the level of detail that is proportionate for business cases of different levels of cost and complexity.."

    "HM Treasury and the Welsh Government will reform the Better Business Cases training programme. The NWF is expanding its role to provide early-stage development support to local and regional government.."

    "The government will publish business cases for major projects and programmes. This will ensure transparency of decision making, including the geographical distribution of projects.."
    Thanks.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,567
    Sterling up half a cent. All things being equal that'll cost me about £700 in my pension pot but decent for 'oor Rach.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,317
    edited June 11

    Rachel will be in heaven. She's finished her speech, and the PB commentariat are signalling more indifference than "resign now" fury.
    Such commentary as there is is pretty evenly balanced.

    I'm certainly not indifferent! Both positives and negatives here. But given I am generally pretty negative on Rachel, well above par. Her presentation is awful and alienating, but on content there are positive elements (and negatives too, natch).
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,628
    edited June 11
    "It will make clear that the Green Book does not endorse the use of arbitrary ‘BCR thresholds’. It will outline that a BCR of less than one does not automatically constitute poor value for money".

    In fact, that's exactly what a BCR of less than one indicates.

    "HM Treasury does not simply rank different projects, with different objectives, by their BCRs as a means of allocating funding.."

    In other words, the government will prioritise shovellling money towards politically favoured projects that make no economic sense.

    Of course they do this already - see the disaster of HS2, or virtually all regional policy - but at least she's being more explicit about it I suppose.

    In fact, in trying to prioritise political support over economic growth, she'll do it so incompetently that she'll probably end up with neither.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,891
    edited June 11

    Rachel will be in heaven. She's finished her speech, and the PB commentariat are signalling more indifference than "resign now" fury.
    Such commentary as there is is pretty evenly balanced.

    Because no full detail has yet been released or looked at. How its viewed by lunchtime tomorrow will be more instructive
    I know. But I was just talking about the speech itself, which in Rachel's case often suffices to send some PBers over the edge. It doesn't appear to have done so on this occasion.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,654
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    So much cash for health. Eeeeek.

    It's a political imperative, I think. Without noticeable improvements in the NHS a second term is unlikely.
    The NHS is the real black hole in the budget, sucking in everything in its path and nothing ever escaping.

    The only department not to have had any austerity, the only department to have had increases every single year, the entire country shutting down to 'protect' it, but still that's not 'enough', is it?

    When do we ever say enough is enough?
    When the public stop having it as their number one priority, I guess.
    UK health spending is not out of line with other wealthy western democracies. If anything slightly on the low side. Though how effective the system is by comparison may be different.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,688

    Rachel will be in heaven. She's finished her speech, and the PB commentariat are signalling more indifference than "resign now" fury.
    Such commentary as there is is pretty evenly balanced.

    And most of the negativity is about her voice. So if she can work on that, deliver her next budget sounding like Joanna Lumley, she'll be untouchable.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,350

    Rachel will be in heaven. She's finished her speech, and the PB commentariat are signalling more indifference than "resign now" fury.
    Such commentary as there is is pretty evenly balanced.

    Because no full detail has yet been released or looked at. How its viewed by lunchtime tomorrow will be more instructive
    I know. But I was just talking about the speech itself, which in Rachel's case often suffices to send some PBers over the edge. It doesn't appear to have done so on this occasion.
    Yeah, much less tasty than a budget, there's no big ticket things to get exercised over
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,699

    Rachel will be in heaven. She's finished her speech, and the PB commentariat are signalling more indifference than "resign now" fury.
    Such commentary as there is is pretty evenly balanced.

    I would caution that the statement will take time to be assessed

    Let's see where this pans out over the next few days
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,686
    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has handed over all AS-90 self-propelled artillery systems to Ukraine"

    https://militarnyi.com/en/news/britain-has-handed-over-all-as-90-self-propelled-artillery-systems-to-ukraine/

    In the latest 'traitor' news.

    I remember when some Russian pranksters phoned up Ben Wallace to jokily demand more javelins for Ukraine and he responded that he couldn’t because we'd 'run out of our own'. Turns out those were halcyon days of someone actually giving half a shit.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,688
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    So much cash for health. Eeeeek.

    It's a political imperative, I think. Without noticeable improvements in the NHS a second term is unlikely.
    The NHS is the real black hole in the budget, sucking in everything in its path and nothing ever escaping.

    The only department not to have had any austerity, the only department to have had increases every single year, the entire country shutting down to 'protect' it, but still that's not 'enough', is it?

    When do we ever say enough is enough?
    When the public stop having it as their number one priority, I guess.
    UK health spending is not out of line with other wealthy western democracies. If anything slightly on the low side. Though how effective the system is by comparison may be different.
    Indeed. And it is important, let's face it.

    "So long as you've got your health" ... there's a reason for that old saying.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,794
    No way those spending plans for the non-core departments are sustainable for a Labour Gvt that wants to dodge the word “austerity”. Especially if we think NATO will force us to go further and faster on defence.

    Something will need to give.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,699
    I would just suggest that with all this capital spending over the next 10 years then the benefits may actually be realised in the next parliament which may well not feature a Labour government
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,891
    kinabalu said:

    Rachel will be in heaven. She's finished her speech, and the PB commentariat are signalling more indifference than "resign now" fury.
    Such commentary as there is is pretty evenly balanced.

    And most of the negativity is about her voice. So if she can work on that, deliver her next budget sounding like Joanna Lumley, she'll be untouchable.
    Absolutely Fabulous! Or the New Avenger. I like it.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,350
    Average Annual Real Growth in Dept Spending Limits 2025/26-2028/29

    Health +2.7%
    Education 0.8%
    Home Office -1.4%
    Defence 3.8%
    FCO -8.3%
    MHCLG -0.6
    Culture, Media, Sport -1.4%
    Transport (ex-HS2) 0.5%
    HS2 - 9.3%
    Energy (ex Sizewell) 2.7%
    Work/Pensions -0.2%
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,976
    Fishing said:

    "It will make clear that the Green Book does not endorse the use of arbitrary ‘BCR thresholds’. It will outline that a BCR of less than one does not automatically constitute poor value for money".

    In fact, that's exactly what a BCR of less than one indicates.

    "HM Treasury does not simply rank different projects, with different objectives, by their BCRs as a means of allocating funding.."

    In other words, the government will prioritise shovellling money towards politically favoured projects that make no economic sense.

    Of course they do this already - see the disaster of HS2, or virtually all regional policy - but at least she's being more explicit about it I suppose.

    In fact, in trying to prioritise political support over economic growth, she'll do it so incompetently that she'll probably end up with neither.

    That's incoherent - the BCR on HS2 was decent (over 2) and plenty of economists think that was far too pessimistic. Just look at the passenger numbers and business impact of Crossrail.

    The problem with BCR is it steered lots of investment to the SE because spreadsheet wankers like me find it difficult to look past the opportunity cost of not chucking all our money at London. That's great for economic growth, but the gap with the rest of the country widens as a result.

    I'm not sure what the change is but an adjusted BCR that takes account of different median real wages would be my preference. An extra weighting for the NE of England in particular.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,976
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    So much cash for health. Eeeeek.

    It's a political imperative, I think. Without noticeable improvements in the NHS a second term is unlikely.
    The NHS is the real black hole in the budget, sucking in everything in its path and nothing ever escaping.

    The only department not to have had any austerity, the only department to have had increases every single year, the entire country shutting down to 'protect' it, but still that's not 'enough', is it?

    When do we ever say enough is enough?
    When the public stop having it as their number one priority, I guess.
    UK health spending is not out of line with other wealthy western democracies. If anything slightly on the low side. Though how effective the system is by comparison may be different.
    Quite - particularly when you take into account how grotesquely unhealthy we are.

    But that's the issue - it's a brilliant life support system, not a health service.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,976

    I would just suggest that with all this capital spending over the next 10 years then the benefits may actually be realised in the next parliament which may well not feature a Labour government

    And we should applaud that (while adjusting our bets...)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,688

    kinabalu said:

    Rachel will be in heaven. She's finished her speech, and the PB commentariat are signalling more indifference than "resign now" fury.
    Such commentary as there is is pretty evenly balanced.

    And most of the negativity is about her voice. So if she can work on that, deliver her next budget sounding like Joanna Lumley, she'll be untouchable.
    Absolutely Fabulous! Or the New Avenger. I like it.
    National treasure, isn't she.

    So is Joanna Lumley.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,976

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has handed over all AS-90 self-propelled artillery systems to Ukraine"

    https://militarnyi.com/en/news/britain-has-handed-over-all-as-90-self-propelled-artillery-systems-to-ukraine/

    In the latest 'traitor' news.

    I remember when some Russian pranksters phoned up Ben Wallace to jokily demand more javelins for Ukraine and he responded that he couldn’t because we'd 'run out of our own'. Turns out those were halcyon days of someone actually giving half a shit.
    That's precisely what they are for - smashing our enemies to bits.

    "Traitor" lol
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,931
    edited June 11
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    So much cash for health. Eeeeek.

    It's a political imperative, I think. Without noticeable improvements in the NHS a second term is unlikely.
    The NHS is the real black hole in the budget, sucking in everything in its path and nothing ever escaping.

    The only department not to have had any austerity, the only department to have had increases every single year, the entire country shutting down to 'protect' it, but still that's not 'enough', is it?

    When do we ever say enough is enough?
    When the public stop having it as their number one priority, I guess.
    Or stop growing older...

    I suspect that if you adjusted that spending to the changes in the demographic age pyramid then it may well not be a real terms increase at all. The big users of the NHS are the over 65s, with the over 75s even greater still.

    In terms of demand we have to run to stand still.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,550
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Rachel will be in heaven. She's finished her speech, and the PB commentariat are signalling more indifference than "resign now" fury.
    Such commentary as there is is pretty evenly balanced.

    And most of the negativity is about her voice. So if she can work on that, deliver her next budget sounding like Joanna Lumley, she'll be untouchable.
    Absolutely Fabulous! Or the New Avenger. I like it.
    National treasure, isn't she.

    So is Joanna Lumley.
    Phil Woolas!!!!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,831

    Cookie said:

    Northern Powerhouse Rail ... plans to be announced in the next few weeks. Why not now Rachel?

    I plan to announce a plan. Genius
    Pre-plan planning. In the pre-meeting meeting.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241
    kinabalu said:

    Rachel will be in heaven. She's finished her speech, and the PB commentariat are signalling more indifference than "resign now" fury.
    Such commentary as there is is pretty evenly balanced.

    And most of the negativity is about her voice. So if she can work on that, deliver her next budget sounding like Joanna Lumley, she'll be untouchable.
    No, she wouldn't.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    So much cash for health. Eeeeek.

    It's a political imperative, I think. Without noticeable improvements in the NHS a second term is unlikely.
    The NHS is the real black hole in the budget, sucking in everything in its path and nothing ever escaping.

    The only department not to have had any austerity, the only department to have had increases every single year, the entire country shutting down to 'protect' it, but still that's not 'enough', is it?

    When do we ever say enough is enough?
    When the public stop having it as their number one priority, I guess.
    Or stop growing older...
    I posted about that earlier in the thread...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,831
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1932771422692389343

    OUR DEAL WITH CHINA IS DONE, SUBJECT TO FINAL APPROVAL WITH PRESIDENT XI AND ME. FULL MAGNETS, AND ANY NECESSARY RARE EARTHS, WILL BE SUPPLIED, UP FRONT, BY CHINA. LIKEWISE, WE WILL PROVIDE TO CHINA WHAT WAS AGREED TO, INCLUDING CHINESE STUDENTS USING OUR COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES (WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN GOOD WITH ME!). WE ARE GETTING A TOTAL OF 55% TARIFFS, CHINA IS GETTING 10%. RELATIONSHIP IS EXCELLENT! THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER!

    "Full magnets" !!!
    Most attractive.

    Or repulsive.
    Poles apart
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has handed over all AS-90 self-propelled artillery systems to Ukraine"

    https://militarnyi.com/en/news/britain-has-handed-over-all-as-90-self-propelled-artillery-systems-to-ukraine/

    In the latest 'traitor' news.

    I remember when some Russian pranksters phoned up Ben Wallace to jokily demand more javelins for Ukraine and he responded that he couldn’t because we'd 'run out of our own'. Turns out those were halcyon days of someone actually giving half a shit.
    What are you on about ?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,350
    Sir Sadiq quick out of the blocks to blast the spending review for underfunding the Met
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,350
    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    Northern Powerhouse Rail ... plans to be announced in the next few weeks. Why not now Rachel?

    I plan to announce a plan. Genius
    Pre-plan planning. In the pre-meeting meeting.

    Advance notice of the pre announcement is planned for next weeks planning meeting
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241
    One for @Leon

    The number of restaurants in Poland recommended by Michelin has risen by 40% this year, with the city of Wrocław included in its prestigious guide for the first time.

    Meanwhile, the number of restaurants awarded Michelin stars has risen from six to seven.

    https://x.com/notesfrompoland/status/1932755365663220125
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,615

    I would just suggest that with all this capital spending over the next 10 years then the benefits may actually be realised in the next parliament which may well not feature a Labour government

    If we actually get some capital spending, then yes, we should applaud that.

    Though a lot seemed to be reannouncements of previously announced money. Actual spades in the ground needs to be a different matter.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has handed over all AS-90 self-propelled artillery systems to Ukraine"

    https://militarnyi.com/en/news/britain-has-handed-over-all-as-90-self-propelled-artillery-systems-to-ukraine/

    In the latest 'traitor' news.

    I remember when some Russian pranksters phoned up Ben Wallace to jokily demand more javelins for Ukraine and he responded that he couldn’t because we'd 'run out of our own'. Turns out those were halcyon days of someone actually giving half a shit.
    Handing over weapons we're not using to kill our enemies and support our allies isn't being a "traitor", its smart.
    And which we have little conceivable use for.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,317
    Fishing said:

    "It will make clear that the Green Book does not endorse the use of arbitrary ‘BCR thresholds’. It will outline that a BCR of less than one does not automatically constitute poor value for money".

    In fact, that's exactly what a BCR of less than one indicates.

    "HM Treasury does not simply rank different projects, with different objectives, by their BCRs as a means of allocating funding.."

    In other words, the government will prioritise shovellling money towards politically favoured projects that make no economic sense.

    Of course they do this already - see the disaster of HS2, or virtually all regional policy - but at least she's being more explicit about it I suppose.

    In fact, in trying to prioritise political support over economic growth, she'll do it so incompetently that she'll probably end up with neither.

    There's a bit more to it than that.
    Green Book rules are quite prescriptive on what benefits can be included in a BCR.
    Take HS2 - the explicit purpose of it is to provide more capacity and to bring about regeneration benefits - yet the former cannot be included at all in the benefits (because it is hard to quantify) and the latter hardly features because of Green Book rules. So the benefits end up being time saved*value of time*number of trips, for which there is a recognised approach. But it hardly scratches the surface of what the true benefits are.

    I agree that we should not be doing something for which the costs exceed the benefits. But a BCR almost never considers the full range of benefits (particularly for rail schemes.)

    TLDR: "The BCr" <> "a full assessment of costs and benefits." It's a blunt guide, nothing more.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,567
    Lol Rachel timed the speech well, just had a gander at the US 10 yr and it's dropped about 0.05% as well with their good cpi figures so that's probably why ours dropped too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,688

    I would just suggest that with all this capital spending over the next 10 years then the benefits may actually be realised in the next parliament which may well not feature a Labour government

    A case of 'country over party' then. What everyone says they want.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,317
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Rachel will be in heaven. She's finished her speech, and the PB commentariat are signalling more indifference than "resign now" fury.
    Such commentary as there is is pretty evenly balanced.

    And most of the negativity is about her voice. So if she can work on that, deliver her next budget sounding like Joanna Lumley, she'll be untouchable.
    No, she wouldn't.
    Oh come on. If she could deliver a budget in Joanna Lumley's voice she could say we're going to spend 100% of our budget in Wick and we'd happily nod along.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,688

    I would just suggest that with all this capital spending over the next 10 years then the benefits may actually be realised in the next parliament which may well not feature a Labour government

    If we actually get some capital spending, then yes, we should applaud that.

    Though a lot seemed to be reannouncements of previously announced money. Actual spades in the ground needs to be a different matter.
    It is a stronger prioritisation of capital (as opposed to revenue) spending than we've seen for some time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241
    Cookie said:

    Fishing said:

    "It will make clear that the Green Book does not endorse the use of arbitrary ‘BCR thresholds’. It will outline that a BCR of less than one does not automatically constitute poor value for money".

    In fact, that's exactly what a BCR of less than one indicates.

    "HM Treasury does not simply rank different projects, with different objectives, by their BCRs as a means of allocating funding.."

    In other words, the government will prioritise shovellling money towards politically favoured projects that make no economic sense.

    Of course they do this already - see the disaster of HS2, or virtually all regional policy - but at least she's being more explicit about it I suppose.

    In fact, in trying to prioritise political support over economic growth, she'll do it so incompetently that she'll probably end up with neither.

    There's a bit more to it than that.
    Green Book rules are quite prescriptive on what benefits can be included in a BCR.
    Take HS2 - the explicit purpose of it is to provide more capacity and to bring about regeneration benefits - yet the former cannot be included at all in the benefits (because it is hard to quantify) and the latter hardly features because of Green Book rules. So the benefits end up being time saved*value of time*number of trips, for which there is a recognised approach. But it hardly scratches the surface of what the true benefits are.

    I agree that we should not be doing something for which the costs exceed the benefits. But a BCR almost never considers the full range of benefits (particularly for rail schemes.)

    TLDR: "The BCr" <> "a full assessment of costs and benefits." It's a blunt guide, nothing more.
    Which, reading the treasury paper in full, is the thrust of their changes.
    As noted, what will count is the execution of what are pretty general principles - but they make a lot more sense than the existing straightjacket.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,317

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    Northern Powerhouse Rail ... plans to be announced in the next few weeks. Why not now Rachel?

    I plan to announce a plan. Genius
    Pre-plan planning. In the pre-meeting meeting.

    Advance notice of the pre announcement is planned for next weeks planning meeting
    ...

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,831
    £1GBP=$1.36USD. Should one buy USD?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,831
    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    Northern Powerhouse Rail ... plans to be announced in the next few weeks. Why not now Rachel?

    I plan to announce a plan. Genius
    Pre-plan planning. In the pre-meeting meeting.

    Advance notice of the pre announcement is planned for next weeks planning meeting
    ...

    I pre-read that cartoon :):):)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,688
    edited June 11
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    So much cash for health. Eeeeek.

    It's a political imperative, I think. Without noticeable improvements in the NHS a second term is unlikely.
    The NHS is the real black hole in the budget, sucking in everything in its path and nothing ever escaping.

    The only department not to have had any austerity, the only department to have had increases every single year, the entire country shutting down to 'protect' it, but still that's not 'enough', is it?

    When do we ever say enough is enough?
    When the public stop having it as their number one priority, I guess.
    Or stop growing older...

    I suspect that if you adjusted that spending to the changes in the demographic age pyramid then it may well not be a real terms increase at all. The big users of the NHS are the over 65s, with the over 75s even greater still.

    In terms of demand we have to run to stand still.
    Googling that point brought up an IFS study from last year:

    https://ifs.org.uk/publications/past-and-future-uk-health-spending
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,043
    theProle said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Fully on board with 'fightback against graffiti'.

    Every time Banksy does some graffiti, it’s a major boost to the GDP.
    1) I don't think Banksy is typical.
    2) Banksy is a vandal with the wit and insight of a smug 14year old, and if he attempted his shit on my wall it would get swiftly painted over and if I caught him at it he'd get a good kicking.
    Surely you'd take the money, flog it to someone and run?
    That would be stupid.

    What you do is setup an NFT, crypto currency, AI, novel space launch, novel physics company using the Banksy as the basis.

    Then sell meme coin based on that. From an no-tax-liability locality.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,688
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Rachel will be in heaven. She's finished her speech, and the PB commentariat are signalling more indifference than "resign now" fury.
    Such commentary as there is is pretty evenly balanced.

    And most of the negativity is about her voice. So if she can work on that, deliver her next budget sounding like Joanna Lumley, she'll be untouchable.
    No, she wouldn't.
    Oh come on. If she could deliver a budget in Joanna Lumley's voice she could say we're going to spend 100% of our budget in Wick and we'd happily nod along.
    "There's no magic money tree, my darlings."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,043

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has handed over all AS-90 self-propelled artillery systems to Ukraine"

    https://militarnyi.com/en/news/britain-has-handed-over-all-as-90-self-propelled-artillery-systems-to-ukraine/

    In the latest 'traitor' news.

    I remember when some Russian pranksters phoned up Ben Wallace to jokily demand more javelins for Ukraine and he responded that he couldn’t because we'd 'run out of our own'. Turns out those were halcyon days of someone actually giving half a shit.
    The AS-90s are out service anyway.

    They are very old, and very broken. This is because the MOD has been stuck in circular development pattern.

    This pattern is common in armoured vehicles

    1) my vehicle is old
    2) I need a new one
    3) I need all these capabilities
    4) I need it to be airmobile
    5) it can’t survive a hit from X
    6) it now weighs 120 tons
    7) back to 2)

    See “The Bradley and How It Got That Way: Technology, Institutions, and the Problem of Mechanized Infantry in the United States Army” - in the case of the Bradley an order was made at about 4.5 (above). So the Americans got a very good vehicle, almost by accident.

    The AS-90s are junk, now.

    We have got Archer as temporary replacement, until we get our deliveries of RCH-155

    Both Archer and RCH-155 are vastly superior to AS-90. Archer is battle tested in Ukraine, incidentally.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,043
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has handed over all AS-90 self-propelled artillery systems to Ukraine"

    https://militarnyi.com/en/news/britain-has-handed-over-all-as-90-self-propelled-artillery-systems-to-ukraine/

    In the latest 'traitor' news.

    I remember when some Russian pranksters phoned up Ben Wallace to jokily demand more javelins for Ukraine and he responded that he couldn’t because we'd 'run out of our own'. Turns out those were halcyon days of someone actually giving half a shit.
    Handing over weapons we're not using to kill our enemies and support our allies isn't being a "traitor", its smart.
    And which we have little conceivable use for.
    AS-90 is ancient.

    And has been replaced by Archer, in the U.K. army, until we get RCH 155 fully up to speed.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,831

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has handed over all AS-90 self-propelled artillery systems to Ukraine"

    https://militarnyi.com/en/news/britain-has-handed-over-all-as-90-self-propelled-artillery-systems-to-ukraine/

    In the latest 'traitor' news.

    I remember when some Russian pranksters phoned up Ben Wallace to jokily demand more javelins for Ukraine and he responded that he couldn’t because we'd 'run out of our own'. Turns out those were halcyon days of someone actually giving half a shit.
    The AS-90s are out service anyway.

    They are very old, and very broken. This is because the MOD has been stuck in circular development pattern.

    This pattern is common in armoured vehicles

    1) my vehicle is old
    2) I need a new one
    3) I need all these capabilities
    4) I need it to be airmobile
    5) it can’t survive a hit from X
    6) it now weighs 120 tons
    7) back to 2)

    See “The Bradley and How It Got That Way: Technology, Institutions, and the Problem of Mechanized Infantry in the United States Army” - in the case of the Bradley an order was made at about 4.5 (above). So the Americans got a very good vehicle, almost by accident.

    The AS-90s are junk, now.

    We have got Archer as temporary replacement, until we get our deliveries of RCH-155

    Both Archer and RCH-155 are vastly superior to AS-90. Archer is battle tested in Ukraine, incidentally.
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5234148#Comment_5234148
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,757
    edited June 11
    Catching up with .. er .. Rachel's Rambles.

    Her leitmotif is .. "and there's more...".

    Still crap at politics, she's selling the cost, not the benefit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has handed over all AS-90 self-propelled artillery systems to Ukraine"

    https://militarnyi.com/en/news/britain-has-handed-over-all-as-90-self-propelled-artillery-systems-to-ukraine/

    In the latest 'traitor' news.

    I remember when some Russian pranksters phoned up Ben Wallace to jokily demand more javelins for Ukraine and he responded that he couldn’t because we'd 'run out of our own'. Turns out those were halcyon days of someone actually giving half a shit.
    The AS-90s are out service anyway.

    They are very old, and very broken. This is because the MOD has been stuck in circular development pattern.

    This pattern is common in armoured vehicles

    1) my vehicle is old
    2) I need a new one
    3) I need all these capabilities
    4) I need it to be airmobile
    5) it can’t survive a hit from X
    6) it now weighs 120 tons
    7) back to 2)

    See “The Bradley and How It Got That Way: Technology, Institutions, and the Problem of Mechanized Infantry in the United States Army” - in the case of the Bradley an order was made at about 4.5 (above). So the Americans got a very good vehicle, almost by accident.

    The AS-90s are junk, now.

    We have got Archer as temporary replacement, until we get our deliveries of RCH-155

    Both Archer and RCH-155 are vastly superior to AS-90. Archer is battle tested in Ukraine, incidentally.
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5234148#Comment_5234148
    The RCH-155 looks proper mental, like something out of Warhammer.
    I like it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,699

    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Switch on Radio 5 Live's phone-in programme and it's someone calling for higher taxes on the wealthy. Next caller: "There's plenty of money but it isn't being fairly distributed". Cakeism as usual.

    That's not cakeism.
    "My policy on cake is pro having it and pro eating it." - Boris, 2016.
    Its the only sensible policy, other than the one of not having it and not eating it.

    Was my daughters birthday last week. We gave her a cake and let her eat it. We didn't give her a choice of having it or eating it.
    Of course you did. And she chose to eat it.

    It’s remarkable how people fail to understand the meaning of that phrase.

    Italians put it more directly, if less correctly, by saying that you can’t have a full bottle and a drunk wife.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241
    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Switch on Radio 5 Live's phone-in programme and it's someone calling for higher taxes on the wealthy. Next caller: "There's plenty of money but it isn't being fairly distributed". Cakeism as usual.

    That's not cakeism.
    "My policy on cake is pro having it and pro eating it." - Boris, 2016.
    Its the only sensible policy, other than the one of not having it and not eating it.

    Was my daughters birthday last week. We gave her a cake and let her eat it. We didn't give her a choice of having it or eating it.
    Of course you did. And she chose to eat it.

    It’s remarkable how people fail to understand the meaning of that phrase.

    Italians put it more directly, if less correctly, by saying that you can’t have a full bottle and a drunk wife.
    Depends how many bottles you start with.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,101
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Switch on Radio 5 Live's phone-in programme and it's someone calling for higher taxes on the wealthy. Next caller: "There's plenty of money but it isn't being fairly distributed". Cakeism as usual.

    That's not cakeism.
    "My policy on cake is pro having it and pro eating it." - Boris, 2016.
    Its the only sensible policy, other than the one of not having it and not eating it.

    Was my daughters birthday last week. We gave her a cake and let her eat it. We didn't give her a choice of having it or eating it.
    Of course you did. And she chose to eat it.

    It’s remarkable how people fail to understand the meaning of that phrase.

    Italians put it more directly, if less correctly, by saying that you can’t have a full bottle and a drunk wife.
    Depends how many bottles you start with.
    And how many wives....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,323

    NEW THREAD

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,699

    viewcode said:

    Looks like we've agreed for Gibraltar to join Schengen and border to be under EU control.
    Wonder how much we are paying Mauritius for this?

    Is there an actual real reason for this, other than the usual Starmer surrender-monkey poo? That man will swallow anything somebody puts in his mouth.

    Border delays have been a huge problem for Gibraltar since Brexit, haven’t they?
    Gibraltar at the 2016 EURef:

    REMAIN 96%
    Leave 4%

    :innocent:
    Bizarrely, one of the 4% was a regular PB’er at the time.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,686
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has handed over all AS-90 self-propelled artillery systems to Ukraine"

    https://militarnyi.com/en/news/britain-has-handed-over-all-as-90-self-propelled-artillery-systems-to-ukraine/

    In the latest 'traitor' news.

    I remember when some Russian pranksters phoned up Ben Wallace to jokily demand more javelins for Ukraine and he responded that he couldn’t because we'd 'run out of our own'. Turns out those were halcyon days of someone actually giving half a shit.
    Handing over weapons we're not using to kill our enemies and support our allies isn't being a "traitor", its smart.
    And which we have little conceivable use for.
    Oh well done, you caught up.
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