I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
Charismatic leadership isn't enough. There needs to be a purpose, a direction. We have that from the Nigel. As we speak, Darren Grimes et al are getting elbows deep into local government finance to get rid of woke spending that all right-thinking people KNOW is there in vast sums and what do you mean there isn't any? Shit.
ReFUK are going to run into early difficulties because the stuff they said they would abolish (like LTNs) don't actually exist. But that is nothing compared to what Boris Boris* would be like.
He can't sell the promise of Brexit. He can't sell levelling up. He can't sell a fucking garden bridge. He has no grand plans, no grand ambitions, no vision for the future beyond World King.
*I assume that Boris, like Betelgeuse, is a curse that comes back if you keep repeating his name
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
It's simply (i think) that some people really like him. They are taken in by what he projects. To some he is fuzzy in a way Starmer or indeed Rayner could never be. He's (to some) a warmer Farage, great for a pint and he'd charm your Nan to boot. It's some weird distillation of that. It's not about policy or politics really
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
Charismatic leadership isn't enough. There needs to be a purpose, a direction. We have that from the Nigel. As we speak, Darren Grimes et al are getting elbows deep into local government finance to get rid of woke spending that all right-thinking people KNOW is there in vast sums and what do you mean there isn't any? Shit.
ReFUK are going to run into early difficulties because the stuff they said they would abolish (like LTNs) don't actually exist. But that is nothing compared to what Boris Boris* would be like.
He can't sell the promise of Brexit. He can't sell levelling up. He can't sell a fucking garden bridge. He has no grand plans, no grand ambitions, no vision for the future beyond World King.
*I assume that Boris, like Betelgeuse, is a curse that comes back if you keep repeating his name
I like Boris as “a character”, and I know he’s not the devil incarnate that some believe. But anointing him as leader again would be an act of pitiful desperation and would almost certainly be seen as such, after an initial burst of curiosity
That said, the Tories ARE desperate so maybe they will try it. A final roll of the dice
There's an interesting article on tory machinations in the ST this morning.
Highlights...
Everyone knows it's all over for KB. It's just a question of exactly which electoral calamities she is going to be the human shield for ahead of the inevitable binning. The bit about KB's giddyup speech after the locals was darkly amusing.
Johnson's Tonton Macoute in the party have identified 8 seats which they think he can win in a by-election if the incumbent were to step aside.
In an amazing development, apparently, the toothy doyenne of the Management Consultancy Industrial Complex, Laura Trott is being touted as a leadership candidate.
No doubt one of the eight safe Tory MPs can be persuaded to step aside in return for a mention in the honours list. Oh, hold on, Boris promised his number one fan Nadine a peerage and yet there she is not, so that will not work. Perhaps an admiring industrialist could offer a well-remunerated non-executive directorship.
Bad news for Bob Jenrick though if not even the fantasists put much faith in him.
Given that Tice has admitted that Reform's tax cut promises are bollox why should anyone believe Farage's welfarist promises ?
I don't find that a fair characterisation. Times change, and the fiscal and economical situation has worsened.
I was re-reading Suella Braverman's piece on ending the 2 child cap, written back in 2023, and the cost is calculated at 2.4bn in 2024/25. But isn't it now 5bn in 2025/26? Crazy difference.
Reform's tax cut promises were always bollox.
Their welfarist promises are now bollox.
If they want to 'reform' something then how about some suggestions as to how to deal with generational inequality and the pandering to pensioners.
The state now sucks up a vast and unsustainable proportion of GDP. Pensioners getting a few more crumbs of it back than anyone else is not the problem - it's sheer distraction tactics and divide and rule.
Do you really believe this crap ?
The state gives many workers sod all, its the oldies where the state lavishes its money.
If you want actual reform, if you want an actual reduction in the 'vast and unstainable proportion of GDP the state sucks up' then oldies must lose out.
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
There's an interesting article on tory machinations in the ST this morning.
Highlights...
Everyone knows it's all over for KB. It's just a question of exactly which electoral calamities she is going to be the human shield for ahead of the inevitable binning. The bit about KB's giddyup speech after the locals was darkly amusing.
Johnson's Tonton Macoute in the party have identified 8 seats which they think he can win in a by-election if the incumbent were to step aside.
In an amazing development, apparently, the toothy doyenne of the Management Consultancy Industrial Complex, Laura Trott is being touted as a leadership candidate.
Perhaps the problem isn't the leader, but the plotters themselves?
That problem has been apparent for many years.
As I have bored on about many times, when the party is subjected to a horrific defeat, and there's a press briefing from someone within CCHQ who clearly despises Kemi saying she 'spent the whole day doomscrolling on her phone' - how is that OK?
SKS is the worst Prime Minister ever, and Labour must wish to be shot of him, but we don't get disgusted briefings every time he finishes the milk and doesn't tell anyone, or moodily fails to say 'good morning' to someone.
I understand Kemi's reticence given that this is the same lot that got her in, but she must now realise that it's time to clean the stables.
The Conservative group of MPs and the party hierarchy are really the most awful people in large part. They really are very petty and vindictive. What is the collective noun for Grima Wormtongues?
They all hate each other, so why should the rest of us put any faith in them?
Well, quite! What is the point of them?
There is no point. Jenrick is the only one who exhibits an ounce of energy and imagination, the only one able to stick it to Labour. Yet apparently the rest of the Tories fear and loathe him, even as the rest are anonymous dorks. Who or what or why is a “Mel Stride”? The paucity of talent is embarrassing
The last election was probably a fatal blow from which they’ll never recover
🙏
A fatal blow for the Conservative and unionist party as it is, but like any big beast going bust it has something to offer in a buy out - all those councillors all that door data and on the ground experience, 7 million voters...... Of course if you swallow them (Mr Farage) don't be wondering what that feeling of being eaten from the inside out is......
BBC Politics (South) just interviewed a "local fisherman" about the EU deal without making clear that the guy is not only the local Tory councillor but the Leader of the Tory Group on IOW council. A poor editorial decision.
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
Charismatic leadership isn't enough. There needs to be a purpose, a direction. We have that from the Nigel. As we speak, Darren Grimes et al are getting elbows deep into local government finance to get rid of woke spending that all right-thinking people KNOW is there in vast sums and what do you mean there isn't any? Shit.
ReFUK are going to run into early difficulties because the stuff they said they would abolish (like LTNs) don't actually exist. But that is nothing compared to what Boris Boris* would be like.
He can't sell the promise of Brexit. He can't sell levelling up. He can't sell a fucking garden bridge. He has no grand plans, no grand ambitions, no vision for the future beyond World King.
*I assume that Boris, like Betelgeuse, is a curse that comes back if you keep repeating his name
Point of order: the LTNs do exist, they've just pretended they aren't there.
There's an interesting article on tory machinations in the ST this morning.
Highlights...
Everyone knows it's all over for KB. It's just a question of exactly which electoral calamities she is going to be the human shield for ahead of the inevitable binning. The bit about KB's giddyup speech after the locals was darkly amusing.
Johnson's Tonton Macoute in the party have identified 8 seats which they think he can win in a by-election if the incumbent were to step aside.
In an amazing development, apparently, the toothy doyenne of the Management Consultancy Industrial Complex, Laura Trott is being touted as a leadership candidate.
Perhaps the problem isn't the leader, but the plotters themselves?
That problem has been apparent for many years.
As I have bored on about many times, when the party is subjected to a horrific defeat, and there's a press briefing from someone within CCHQ who clearly despises Kemi saying she 'spent the whole day doomscrolling on her phone' - how is that OK?
SKS is the worst Prime Minister ever, and Labour must wish to be shot of him, but we don't get disgusted briefings every time he finishes the milk and doesn't tell anyone, or moodily fails to say 'good morning' to someone.
I understand Kemi's reticence given that this is the same lot that got her in, but she must now realise that it's time to clean the stables.
The Conservative group of MPs and the party hierarchy are really the most awful people in large part. They really are very petty and vindictive. What is the collective noun for Grima Wormtongues?
They all hate each other, so why should the rest of us put any faith in them?
Well, quite! What is the point of them?
There is no point. Jenrick is the only one who exhibits an ounce of energy and imagination, the only one able to stick it to Labour. Yet apparently the rest of the Tories fear and loathe him, even as the rest are anonymous dorks. Who or what or why is a “Mel Stride”? The paucity of talent is embarrassing
The last election was probably a fatal blow from which they’ll never recover
🙏
A fatal blow for the Conservative and unionist party as it is, but like any big beast going bust it has something to offer in a buy out - all those councillors all that door data and on the ground experience, 7 million voters...... Of course if you swallow them (Mr Farage) don't be wondering what that feeling of being eaten from the inside out is......
Farage is too cunning to allow that, I suspect
Nonetheless a merger of some kind is quite likely. I noticed that Dan Hannan is a convert to this idea. So some Tories are clearly considering it
However, if it happens, the Tories will be the minor, supplicant party
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
The more the establishment denies the tectonic plates moving the more Farage will become the simpering moderate in UK politics. A lesson they need to learn very very quickly for all our sakes
As someone else wrote, what a way to start a Sunday morning! I wish Ms Cyclefree all the best; others in my circle are in a similar position and it's exceedingly worrying. However she is, compared with those in my circle, quite young and has therefore a reasonable chance of coming to a position where matters are going to admittedly deteriorate, but much more slowly. I was told, some three years ago, at the age of 84, that if I did not have an operation on my spine I would be, in a couple of years, paralysed and bed-bound. I had the operation and while I'm by no means as mobile as I was five years ago, when things started to go wrong, I am sitting in my study in front of a computer typing this. Not well, admittedly, but I am. I walked here from the breakfast table, admittedly again using a walking aid, but I can get about the house. I have to have help showering and so on but I'm by no means bed-bound. And I've bought an electric scooter on which I can do some shopping, go to social groups within a reasonable range and get into at least one of the local pubs, luckily my favourite. The point of this is to cry Nil Desperandum, and to encourage Ms Cyclefree to go for it and work towards recovery. The support post operation that I've had from physios, occupational therapists and the like has been encouraging; I am now having monthly appointments with a physio who thinks he can get me walking unaided, before too long. I've also had considerable support on here, notably from MattW. So while I am certain that when our colleague looks to the future it looks anything but rosy, with determination and support she can find a future which fulfilling and rewarding.
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
Charismatic leadership isn't enough. There needs to be a purpose, a direction. We have that from the Nigel. As we speak, Darren Grimes et al are getting elbows deep into local government finance to get rid of woke spending that all right-thinking people KNOW is there in vast sums and what do you mean there isn't any? Shit.
ReFUK are going to run into early difficulties because the stuff they said they would abolish (like LTNs) don't actually exist. But that is nothing compared to what Boris Boris* would be like.
He can't sell the promise of Brexit. He can't sell levelling up. He can't sell a fucking garden bridge. He has no grand plans, no grand ambitions, no vision for the future beyond World King.
*I assume that Boris, like Betelgeuse, is a curse that comes back if you keep repeating his name
The BBC's report of a claim that there were no DEI Officers Lincolnshire by the council was debunked. They were renamed as 'coaches' and similar, no doubt in response to the masses of Freedom of Information requests about the number of DEI roles.
I also don't see how you think it's even possible that Reform councillors didn't know about an absence of LTNs in their own area. I think it's probably the usual suspects trying to build on the first 'gotcha' they thought they'd scored. The direction of travel was clearly in establishing more and more of them - good for Reform in banning them - prevention is better than cure.
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
It's simply (i think) that some people really like him. They are taken in by what he projects. To some he is fuzzy in a way Starmer or indeed Rayner could never be. He's (to some) a warmer Farage, great for a pint and he'd charm your Nan to boot. It's some weird distillation of that. It's not about policy or politics really
If you went for a pint with Boris you can be sure that you'd do the paying.
There's an interesting article on tory machinations in the ST this morning.
Highlights...
Everyone knows it's all over for KB. It's just a question of exactly which electoral calamities she is going to be the human shield for ahead of the inevitable binning. The bit about KB's giddyup speech after the locals was darkly amusing.
Johnson's Tonton Macoute in the party have identified 8 seats which they think he can win in a by-election if the incumbent were to step aside.
In an amazing development, apparently, the toothy doyenne of the Management Consultancy Industrial Complex, Laura Trott is being touted as a leadership candidate.
No doubt one of the eight safe Tory MPs can be persuaded to step aside in return for a mention in the honours list. Oh, hold on, Boris promised his number one fan Nadine a peerage and yet there she is not, so that will not work. Perhaps an admiring industrialist could offer a well-remunerated non-executive directorship.
Bad news for Bob Jenrick though if not even the fantasists put much faith in him.
Bob Jenrick doesn’t have the Boris twinkle in the eye. He doesn’t even have the Nigel twinkle in the eye. His eyes have a glint - a steely glint of early Brandon in Mr Brightside - but not a twinkle.
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
The more the establishment denies the tectonic plates moving the more Farage will become the simpering moderate in UK politics. A lesson they need to learn very very quickly for all our sakes
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
It's simply (i think) that some people really like him. They are taken in by what he projects. To some he is fuzzy in a way Starmer or indeed Rayner could never be. He's (to some) a warmer Farage, great for a pint and he'd charm your Nan to boot. It's some weird distillation of that. It's not about policy or politics really
If you went for a pint with Boris you can be sure that you'd do the paying.
Yes. And the people that like him would laugh and find it endearing. That's the point
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
Political dysfunction doesn't come from party names or brands, but from fantasists selling very saleable but impossible to deliver solutions. More of the same is keep electing the most shiny fantasy.
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
Charismatic leadership isn't enough. There needs to be a purpose, a direction. We have that from the Nigel. As we speak, Darren Grimes et al are getting elbows deep into local government finance to get rid of woke spending that all right-thinking people KNOW is there in vast sums and what do you mean there isn't any? Shit.
ReFUK are going to run into early difficulties because the stuff they said they would abolish (like LTNs) don't actually exist. But that is nothing compared to what Boris Boris* would be like.
He can't sell the promise of Brexit. He can't sell levelling up. He can't sell a fucking garden bridge. He has no grand plans, no grand ambitions, no vision for the future beyond World King.
*I assume that Boris, like Betelgeuse, is a curse that comes back if you keep repeating his name
Point of order: the LTNs do exist, they've just pretended they aren't there.
From what I’ve read they don’t exist in the councils run by Reform
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
“Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive.”
I beat this drum repeatedly during the last parliament, but all I got was constant trolling and lectures on how Sir Keir might be dull and boring, but that didn’t matter as he was so honest and competent. It was his superpower really, no one believed that he could be dishonest and incompetent on top of being dull and boring, so they assumed honest competence.
Saddened by this news. I have always greatly respected Cyclefree's contributions; even when I disagreed with the conclusion or found fault in them they always contained useful insights. It's so characteristic that even this post does so: the habit of politicians of treating everything as an argument to win is not just a problem for things which are obviously investigations, like the post office scandal, but also explains many of their failures to get the results they wanted: the real world turns out not to work the way that their facile arguments suggest, and their lack of curiosity means they only find out after inflicting their theories upon us (if then).
I wish Cyclefree the best of luck with the treatment and the course of this disease.
There's an interesting article on tory machinations in the ST this morning.
Highlights...
Everyone knows it's all over for KB. It's just a question of exactly which electoral calamities she is going to be the human shield for ahead of the inevitable binning. The bit about KB's giddyup speech after the locals was darkly amusing.
Johnson's Tonton Macoute in the party have identified 8 seats which they think he can win in a by-election if the incumbent were to step aside.
In an amazing development, apparently, the toothy doyenne of the Management Consultancy Industrial Complex, Laura Trott is being touted as a leadership candidate.
No doubt one of the eight safe Tory MPs can be persuaded to step aside in return for a mention in the honours list. Oh, hold on, Boris promised his number one fan Nadine a peerage and yet there she is not, so that will not work. Perhaps an admiring industrialist could offer a well-remunerated non-executive directorship.
Bad news for Bob Jenrick though if not even the fantasists put much faith in him.
Bob Jenrick doesn’t have the Boris twinkle in the eye. He doesn’t even have the Nigel twinkle in the eye. His eyes have a glint - a steely glint of early Brandon in Mr Brightside - but not a twinkle.
The steely Jenrick we have today might have been an excellent leader 5 years ago. Even 2 years ago
As someone else wrote, what a way to start a Sunday morning! I wish Ms Cyclefree all the best; others in my circle are in a similar position and it's exceedingly worrying. However she is, compared with those in my circle, quite young and has therefore a reasonable chance of coming to a position where matters are going to admittedly deteriorate, but much more slowly. I was told, some three years ago, at the age of 84, that if I did not have an operation on my spine I would be, in a couple of years, paralysed and bed-bound. I had the operation and while I'm by no means as mobile as I was five years ago, when things started to go wrong, I am sitting in my study in front of a computer typing this. Not well, admittedly, but I am. I walked here from the breakfast table, admittedly again using a walking aid, but I can get about the house. I have to have help showering and so on but I'm by no means bed-bound. And I've bought an electric scooter on which I can do some shopping, go to social groups within a reasonable range and get into at least one of the local pubs, luckily my favourite. The point of this is to cry Nil Desperandum, and to encourage Ms Cyclefree to go for it and work towards recovery. The support post operation that I've had from physios, occupational therapists and the like has been encouraging; I am now having monthly appointments with a physio who thinks he can get me walking unaided, before too long. I've also had considerable support on here, notably from MattW. So while I am certain that when our colleague looks to the future it looks anything but rosy, with determination and support she can find a future which fulfilling and rewarding.
While I think Kemi is crap and disagree with what she says most of the time, I fully agree with her when it comes to the two child limit on child benefit.
If you can't afford to bring up your children you shouldn't have had them.
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
It's simply (i think) that some people really like him. They are taken in by what he projects. To some he is fuzzy in a way Starmer or indeed Rayner could never be. He's (to some) a warmer Farage, great for a pint and he'd charm your Nan to boot. It's some weird distillation of that. It's not about policy or politics really
If you went for a pint with Boris you can be sure that you'd do the paying.
Yes. And the people that like him would laugh and find it endearing. That's the point
Boris is a public, privileged, posho 'Giro Jim'.
He really does have many underclass attributes:
Too many children by too many mothers. Claiming every handout, whether entitled or not. Borrowing money from everyone he can, without any intention of paying it back. A slipshod attitude to doing any work.
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
Charismatic leadership isn't enough. There needs to be a purpose, a direction. We have that from the Nigel. As we speak, Darren Grimes et al are getting elbows deep into local government finance to get rid of woke spending that all right-thinking people KNOW is there in vast sums and what do you mean there isn't any? Shit.
ReFUK are going to run into early difficulties because the stuff they said they would abolish (like LTNs) don't actually exist. But that is nothing compared to what Boris Boris* would be like.
He can't sell the promise of Brexit. He can't sell levelling up. He can't sell a fucking garden bridge. He has no grand plans, no grand ambitions, no vision for the future beyond World King.
*I assume that Boris, like Betelgeuse, is a curse that comes back if you keep repeating his name
I like Boris as “a character”, and I know he’s not the devil incarnate that some believe. But anointing him as leader again would be an act of pitiful desperation and would almost certainly be seen as such, after an initial burst of curiosity
That said, the Tories ARE desperate so maybe they will try it. A final roll of the dice
Look at Katie Lam’s X. She will surely be a future Conservative leader
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
Charismatic leadership isn't enough. There needs to be a purpose, a direction. We have that from the Nigel. As we speak, Darren Grimes et al are getting elbows deep into local government finance to get rid of woke spending that all right-thinking people KNOW is there in vast sums and what do you mean there isn't any? Shit.
ReFUK are going to run into early difficulties because the stuff they said they would abolish (like LTNs) don't actually exist. But that is nothing compared to what Boris Boris* would be like.
He can't sell the promise of Brexit. He can't sell levelling up. He can't sell a fucking garden bridge. He has no grand plans, no grand ambitions, no vision for the future beyond World King.
*I assume that Boris, like Betelgeuse, is a curse that comes back if you keep repeating his name
I like Boris as “a character”, and I know he’s not the devil incarnate that some believe. But anointing him as leader again would be an act of pitiful desperation and would almost certainly be seen as such, after an initial burst of curiosity
That said, the Tories ARE desperate so maybe they will try it. A final roll of the dice
Look at Katie Lam’s X. She will surely be a future Conservative leader
There's an interesting article on tory machinations in the ST this morning.
Highlights...
Everyone knows it's all over for KB. It's just a question of exactly which electoral calamities she is going to be the human shield for ahead of the inevitable binning. The bit about KB's giddyup speech after the locals was darkly amusing.
Johnson's Tonton Macoute in the party have identified 8 seats which they think he can win in a by-election if the incumbent were to step aside.
In an amazing development, apparently, the toothy doyenne of the Management Consultancy Industrial Complex, Laura Trott is being touted as a leadership candidate.
From Shipper's piece;
His allies are hoping one of the eight MPs who won more than 50 per cent of the vote in 2024 would stand aside for him.
but I think the only seat where the Conservatives won an absolute majority is Bob Blackman's Harrow East. Part of the Conservative problem is that they still haven't internalised how deep in trouble they are.
Yes, assuming Wikipedia is correct, there is just the one Conservative above 50 per cent. The next highest is Rishi Sunak. But in any case, that is probably the wrong measure. A victory by, hypothetically, 52 to 48 per cent with the fringe parties nowhere is not a safe seat. The Conservative with the highest winning margin, around 25 per cent, is, again, Rishi Sunak. (England-only btw.)
So without access to Shipman's notes or story, it is not clear what are the criteria but anyway, there are apparently eight possible sacrificial lambs. Let's hope they've not counted Kemi among them.
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
Charismatic leadership isn't enough. There needs to be a purpose, a direction. We have that from the Nigel. As we speak, Darren Grimes et al are getting elbows deep into local government finance to get rid of woke spending that all right-thinking people KNOW is there in vast sums and what do you mean there isn't any? Shit.
ReFUK are going to run into early difficulties because the stuff they said they would abolish (like LTNs) don't actually exist. But that is nothing compared to what Boris Boris* would be like.
He can't sell the promise of Brexit. He can't sell levelling up. He can't sell a fucking garden bridge. He has no grand plans, no grand ambitions, no vision for the future beyond World King.
*I assume that Boris, like Betelgeuse, is a curse that comes back if you keep repeating his name
The BBC's report of a claim that there were no DEI Officers Lincolnshire by the council was debunked. They were renamed as 'coaches' and similar, no doubt in response to the masses of Freedom of Information requests about the number of DEI roles.
I also don't see how you think it's even possible that Reform councillors didn't know about an absence of LTNs in their own area. I think it's probably the usual suspects trying to build on the first 'gotcha' they thought they'd scored. The direction of travel was clearly in establishing more and more of them - good for Reform in banning them - prevention is better than cure.
Clearly you don't live on what should be a quiet residential street blighted by drivers using it as a rat run.
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
“Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive.”
I beat this drum repeatedly during the last parliament, but all I got was constant trolling and lectures on how Sir Keir might be dull and boring, but that didn’t matter as he was so honest and competent. It was his superpower really, no one believed that he could be dishonest and incompetent on top of being dull and boring, so they assumed honest competence.
Haha. Very good
You’ve nailed it completely
It’s like some woman deciding to marry the earnest boring guy, rather than the funny alpha male who might cheat on her, then discovering the earnest boring guy is a workless alcoholic who visits hookers every week
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
Don’t just bin us off with the LabCon. We’re looking at radical changes starting with a solution to care. Needs to me much more more, but it’s a start. And it’s not that Refirm really have polices yet either, just slogans
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
Charismatic leadership isn't enough. There needs to be a purpose, a direction. We have that from the Nigel. As we speak, Darren Grimes et al are getting elbows deep into local government finance to get rid of woke spending that all right-thinking people KNOW is there in vast sums and what do you mean there isn't any? Shit.
ReFUK are going to run into early difficulties because the stuff they said they would abolish (like LTNs) don't actually exist. But that is nothing compared to what Boris Boris* would be like.
He can't sell the promise of Brexit. He can't sell levelling up. He can't sell a fucking garden bridge. He has no grand plans, no grand ambitions, no vision for the future beyond World King.
*I assume that Boris, like Betelgeuse, is a curse that comes back if you keep repeating his name
Point of order: the LTNs do exist, they've just pretended they aren't there.
From what I’ve read they don’t exist in the councils run by Reform
It's just branding. Almost all housing estates since the advent of the motorcar have been designed to be LTNs, so there are hundreds of them inside Reform council areas.
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
Charismatic leadership isn't enough. There needs to be a purpose, a direction. We have that from the Nigel. As we speak, Darren Grimes et al are getting elbows deep into local government finance to get rid of woke spending that all right-thinking people KNOW is there in vast sums and what do you mean there isn't any? Shit.
ReFUK are going to run into early difficulties because the stuff they said they would abolish (like LTNs) don't actually exist. But that is nothing compared to what Boris Boris* would be like.
He can't sell the promise of Brexit. He can't sell levelling up. He can't sell a fucking garden bridge. He has no grand plans, no grand ambitions, no vision for the future beyond World King.
*I assume that Boris, like Betelgeuse, is a curse that comes back if you keep repeating his name
The BBC's report of a claim that there were no DEI Officers Lincolnshire by the council was debunked. They were renamed as 'coaches' and similar, no doubt in response to the masses of Freedom of Information requests about the number of DEI roles.
I also don't see how you think it's even possible that Reform councillors didn't know about an absence of LTNs in their own area. I think it's probably the usual suspects trying to build on the first 'gotcha' they thought they'd scored. The direction of travel was clearly in establishing more and more of them - good for Reform in banning them - prevention is better than cure.
Clearly you don't live on what should be a quiet residential street blighted by drivers using it as a rat run.
Or on what should be a quiet residential street that has been turned into a rat run because they've LTN'd the road your ward councillor lives on.
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
It's simply (i think) that some people really like him. They are taken in by what he projects. To some he is fuzzy in a way Starmer or indeed Rayner could never be. He's (to some) a warmer Farage, great for a pint and he'd charm your Nan to boot. It's some weird distillation of that. It's not about policy or politics really
If you went for a pint with Boris you can be sure that you'd do the paying.
Yes. And the people that like him would laugh and find it endearing. That's the point
Boris is a public, privileged, posho 'Giro Jim'.
He really does have many underclass attributes:
Too many children by too many mothers. Claiming every handout, whether entitled or not. Borrowing money from everyone he can, without any intention of paying it back. A slipshod attitude to doing any work.
Yep again. He's a lad isn't he? And all the mums think he's the nicest one in the gang you hang about with. All his failings are reasons some people like him because he bluffs them not being failings and quotes Latin and charms Nan and will definitely get the drinks in next time. He's dangerous. Still.
As someone else wrote, what a way to start a Sunday morning! I wish Ms Cyclefree all the best; others in my circle are in a similar position and it's exceedingly worrying. However she is, compared with those in my circle, quite young and has therefore a reasonable chance of coming to a position where matters are going to admittedly deteriorate, but much more slowly. I was told, some three years ago, at the age of 84, that if I did not have an operation on my spine I would be, in a couple of years, paralysed and bed-bound. I had the operation and while I'm by no means as mobile as I was five years ago, when things started to go wrong, I am sitting in my study in front of a computer typing this. Not well, admittedly, but I am. I walked here from the breakfast table, admittedly again using a walking aid, but I can get about the house. I have to have help showering and so on but I'm by no means bed-bound. And I've bought an electric scooter on which I can do some shopping, go to social groups within a reasonable range and get into at least one of the local pubs, luckily my favourite. The point of this is to cry Nil Desperandum, and to encourage Ms Cyclefree to go for it and work towards recovery. The support post operation that I've had from physios, occupational therapists and the like has been encouraging; I am now having monthly appointments with a physio who thinks he can get me walking unaided, before too long. I've also had considerable support on here, notably from MattW. So while I am certain that when our colleague looks to the future it looks anything but rosy, with determination and support she can find a future which fulfilling and rewarding.
I don't do deadlifts; can't stand unaided at the moment but I do half an hour's 'physical jerks' every morning. I've often thought that if I could get to a gym I would.
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
“Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive.”
I beat this drum repeatedly during the last parliament, but all I got was constant trolling and lectures on how Sir Keir might be dull and boring, but that didn’t matter as he was so honest and competent. It was his superpower really, no one believed that he could be dishonest and incompetent on top of being dull and boring, so they assumed honest competence.
Haha. Very good
You’ve nailed it completely
It’s like some woman deciding to marry the earnest boring guy, rather than the funny alpha male who might cheat on her, then discovering the earnest boring guy is a workless alcoholic who visits hookers every week
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
There's a very good reason and that's things are pretty good for many millions of people and a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government, could easily destroy all that.
The country needs reform and repair.
But, as in a house which needs repair, that requires the competent not cowboys to do the work.
And nothing about Farage's past or promises suggest he could lead a country competently.
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
Charismatic leadership isn't enough. There needs to be a purpose, a direction. We have that from the Nigel. As we speak, Darren Grimes et al are getting elbows deep into local government finance to get rid of woke spending that all right-thinking people KNOW is there in vast sums and what do you mean there isn't any? Shit.
ReFUK are going to run into early difficulties because the stuff they said they would abolish (like LTNs) don't actually exist. But that is nothing compared to what Boris Boris* would be like.
He can't sell the promise of Brexit. He can't sell levelling up. He can't sell a fucking garden bridge. He has no grand plans, no grand ambitions, no vision for the future beyond World King.
*I assume that Boris, like Betelgeuse, is a curse that comes back if you keep repeating his name
The BBC's report of a claim that there were no DEI Officers Lincolnshire by the council was debunked. They were renamed as 'coaches' and similar, no doubt in response to the masses of Freedom of Information requests about the number of DEI roles.
I also don't see how you think it's even possible that Reform councillors didn't know about an absence of LTNs in their own area. I think it's probably the usual suspects trying to build on the first 'gotcha' they thought they'd scored. The direction of travel was clearly in establishing more and more of them - good for Reform in banning them - prevention is better than cure.
Clearly you don't live on what should be a quiet residential street blighted by drivers using it as a rat run.
I think what people like LG don't appreciate is that phone apps like Waze are very effective for identifying and directing you through rat runs. This doesn't affect people who live in new estates, but does for those of us in older ones (pre-motorcar).
There's an interesting article on tory machinations in the ST this morning.
Highlights...
Everyone knows it's all over for KB. It's just a question of exactly which electoral calamities she is going to be the human shield for ahead of the inevitable binning. The bit about KB's giddyup speech after the locals was darkly amusing.
Johnson's Tonton Macoute in the party have identified 8 seats which they think he can win in a by-election if the incumbent were to step aside.
In an amazing development, apparently, the toothy doyenne of the Management Consultancy Industrial Complex, Laura Trott is being touted as a leadership candidate.
From Shipper's piece;
His allies are hoping one of the eight MPs who won more than 50 per cent of the vote in 2024 would stand aside for him.
but I think the only seat where the Conservatives won an absolute majority is Bob Blackman's Harrow East. Part of the Conservative problem is that they still haven't internalised how deep in trouble they are.
Yes, assuming Wikipedia is correct, there is just the one Conservative above 50 per cent. The next highest is Rishi Sunak. But in any case, that is probably the wrong measure. A victory by, hypothetically, 52 to 48 per cent with the fringe parties nowhere is not a safe seat. The Conservative with the highest winning margin, around 25 per cent, is, again, Rishi Sunak. (England-only btw.)
So without access to Shipman's notes or story, it is not clear what are the criteria but anyway, there are apparently eight possible sacrificial lambs. Let's hope they've not counted Kemi among them.
I'd look (outside London) at the seats they won based on ward votes on May 1 - Hertsmere (but Dowden), Broxbourne, Newark (but Jenrick), Sevenoaks (but Trott), Tonbridge (but Tug my hat), Beaconsfield, Salisbury, South Northants, Kenilworth (very solid), Droitwich plus a few others
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
Don’t just bin us off with the LabCon. We’re looking at radical changes starting with a solution to care. Needs to me much more more, but it’s a start. And it’s not that Refirm really have polices yet either, just slogans
I’m sorry but no one on God’s green earth is ever going to think “Britain needs radical solutions to terrible problems, who can provide that? - of course, the Lib Dems and “Sir” Ed Davey!”
Yours is a party for cautious, affluent, morally vain middle class people who like to be a tiny bit different but not much
You are quintessentially niche. You might prosper as the Lab Con dual star system finally dies. But Mrs Thatcher Vintage 1979 you are not. And that’s what Britain now needs. A new Thatcher to break everything up
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
There's a very good reason and that's things are pretty good for many millions of people and a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government, could easily destroy all that.
The country needs reform and repair.
But, as in a house which needs repair, that requires the competent not cowboys to do the work.
And nothing about Farage's past or promises suggest he could lead a country competently.
If this was remotely true Labour would not be polling 22% (and falling) and the Tories 16% (and falling)
Thoughts go out to @Cyclefree and you will be sorely missed as your presence is reduced, though hopefully a shorter period than you fear. I will certainly have a word in the ear of the goddess on your behalf next time I grant her an audience.
Secondly and much less importantly for all those fearing the normal 3 parties losing their grip on the electorate and what happens next.
Tough you lot have held power between you for a huge number of decades, your parties are why this country is in the mess it is in currently. Thinking we little people (I discount most on PB as little people as mostly people here are top 10%ers from things they say) should continue to vote for lab,ld,con....because something worse might happen you forget for a lot of us something worse happens anyway everytime one of your parties gets elected.
Now I have no great confidence in either the greens or reform actually achieving anything useful and if either were to get a majority its 80% likely the country will get worse for the bottom half. However the thing you are neglecting is that means there is at least a chance it gets better for the bottom half. Pit that against knowing from decades of experience voting in ld,con,lab gives a 100% chance that things will be getting worse for them and the fact they have little left to lose on to what the comfortably off here see as an insane wager and you can see their point.
Sometimes a house is beyond repair and needs to be demolished and rebuilt, maybe the same is true of nations
There's an interesting article on tory machinations in the ST this morning.
Highlights...
Everyone knows it's all over for KB. It's just a question of exactly which electoral calamities she is going to be the human shield for ahead of the inevitable binning. The bit about KB's giddyup speech after the locals was darkly amusing.
Johnson's Tonton Macoute in the party have identified 8 seats which they think he can win in a by-election if the incumbent were to step aside.
In an amazing development, apparently, the toothy doyenne of the Management Consultancy Industrial Complex, Laura Trott is being touted as a leadership candidate.
From Shipper's piece;
His allies are hoping one of the eight MPs who won more than 50 per cent of the vote in 2024 would stand aside for him.
but I think the only seat where the Conservatives won an absolute majority is Bob Blackman's Harrow East. Part of the Conservative problem is that they still haven't internalised how deep in trouble they are.
Yes, assuming Wikipedia is correct, there is just the one Conservative above 50 per cent. The next highest is Rishi Sunak. But in any case, that is probably the wrong measure. A victory by, hypothetically, 52 to 48 per cent with the fringe parties nowhere is not a safe seat. The Conservative with the highest winning margin, around 25 per cent, is, again, Rishi Sunak. (England-only btw.)
So without access to Shipman's notes or story, it is not clear what are the criteria but anyway, there are apparently eight possible sacrificial lambs. Let's hope they've not counted Kemi among them.
I'd look (outside London) at the seats they won based on ward votes on May 1 - Hertsmere (but Dowden), Broxbourne, Newark (but Jenrick), Sevenoaks (but Trott), Tonbridge (but Tug my hat), Beaconsfield, Salisbury, South Northants, Kenilworth (very solid), Droitwich plus a few others
Of seats they'd regain based on May 1sts ward votes, Ken Clarke's old seat of Rushcliffe swung back to them very hard and looks to me like it will move back to being safe Con. The other regains are more Labour collapses although Witney looks like it might be interesting
Given that Tice has admitted that Reform's tax cut promises are bollox why should anyone believe Farage's welfarist promises ?
I don't find that a fair characterisation. Times change, and the fiscal and economical situation has worsened.
I was re-reading Suella Braverman's piece on ending the 2 child cap, written back in 2023, and the cost is calculated at 2.4bn in 2024/25. But isn't it now 5bn in 2025/26? Crazy difference.
Reform's tax cut promises were always bollox.
Their welfarist promises are now bollox.
If they want to 'reform' something then how about some suggestions as to how to deal with generational inequality and the pandering to pensioners.
The state now sucks up a vast and unsustainable proportion of GDP. Pensioners getting a few more crumbs of it back than anyone else is not the problem - it's sheer distraction tactics and divide and rule.
Do you really believe this crap ?
The state gives many workers sod all, its the oldies where the state lavishes its money.
If you want actual reform, if you want an actual reduction in the 'vast and unstainable proportion of GDP the state sucks up' then oldies must lose out.
And not just by 'crumbs' either.
A part of the problem is that politicians and the permanent apparatus of the state have given up on real cost saving and increasing productivity.
Which isn’t about “slashing budgets” or “firing all the DEI officers”.
It’s about aligning jobs, tools and processes with the work that actually needs to be done. At the moment, for example, social workers spend 60-70%+ of their time on paperwork. Much is about duplicated reporting in various systems or requesting resources in a ridiculously inefficient way.
If we reduce that burden by 10% - so they are only spend 50%-60% of their time on admin - we would increase the hours of social work available by 25%+
Imagine a world where we got the admin down to 25% of their time….
Thoughts go out to @Cyclefree and you will be sorely missed as your presence is reduced, though hopefully a shorter period than you fear. I will certainly have a word in the ear of the goddess on your behalf next time I grant her an audience.
Secondly and much less importantly for all those fearing the normal 3 parties losing their grip on the electorate and what happens next.
Tough you lot have held power between you for a huge number of decades, your parties are why this country is in the mess it is in currently. Thinking we little people (I discount most on PB as little people as mostly people here are top 10%ers from things they say) should continue to vote for lab,ld,con....because something worse might happen you forget for a lot of us something worse happens anyway everytime one of your parties gets elected.
Now I have no great confidence in either the greens or reform actually achieving anything useful and if either were to get a majority its 80% likely the country will get worse for the bottom half. However the thing you are neglecting is that means there is at least a chance it gets better for the bottom half. Pit that against knowing from decades of experience voting in ld,con,lab gives a 100% chance that things will be getting worse for them and the fact they have little left to lose on to what the comfortably off here see as an insane wager and you can see their point.
Sometimes a house is beyond repair and needs to be demolished and rebuilt, maybe the same is true of nations
Yes that’s exactly right. John Curtice (PBUH) says as much in the Guardian article I linked earlier, on Labour’s woes. A lot of British people have had enough. It’s like a car you take to be MOT’d and the repair guy shakes his head sadly and says “well, you COULD do this and this, and also that, and you need new doors, also a windscreen, and the brakes have gone…”
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
There's a very good reason and that's things are pretty good for many millions of people and a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government, could easily destroy all that.
The country needs reform and repair.
But, as in a house which needs repair, that requires the competent not cowboys to do the work.
And nothing about Farage's past or promises suggest he could lead a country competently.
If this was remotely true Labour would not be polling 22% (and falling) and the Tories 16% (and falling)
Meanwhile Reform are on 30% (and rising)
There's plenty of disgruntlement with the establishment parties, rightly so in many cases.
That doesn't mean that the non-establishment parties might not do even worse in government.
Nor does it mean that there aren't many millions of people who should be grateful for what they have but are still endlessly whining that they deserve more.
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
There's a very good reason and that's things are pretty good for many millions of people and a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government, could easily destroy all that.
The country needs reform and repair.
But, as in a house which needs repair, that requires the competent not cowboys to do the work.
And nothing about Farage's past or promises suggest he could lead a country competently.
If this was remotely true Labour would not be polling 22% (and falling) and the Tories 16% (and falling)
Meanwhile Reform are on 30% (and rising)
There's plenty of disgruntlement with the establishment parties, rightly so in many cases.
That doesn't mean that the non-establishment parties might not do even worse in government.
Nor does it mean that there aren't many millions of people who should be grateful for what they have but are still endlessly whining that they deserve more.
This is far beyond “disgruntlement”. Read the room
Or look across the west. Britain is not alone. The populist/nationalist right is surging everywhere because an entire ideology - mass immigration plus multiculturalism - has failed
I am fascinated by what it is that Tory dreamers think the return of Boris! can bring to the table.
Boris had that bumbling charm which everyone got seriously sick of. If he brings that back doesn't it just remind everyone of partygate? Boris brought us an oven-ready Brexit deal. He can't sell the same thing twice, especially now we Ogdenvilleans have had a taste of his monorail. Boris offered to Build Back Better - a great slogan! But it was only ever a slogan, with broke councils being forced to spend money they couldn't afford to bit for a relatively small amount of cash which was offered everywhere and delivered nowhere.
So what is the pitch?
The pitch of charismatic leadership doesn't need to rely on the ordering of facts, incremental policy development, personal history or reasoned argument about the relationship of spending, taxing, debt and deficit. Trump, Farage, Boris all rely on quite different elements of how leadership works.
The hole in our politics is exactly in the area of leadership who can be inspiring and real at the same time.
Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive. Which largely is what we have now.
“Charismatic and unreal is more attractive than dull, unreal and evasive.”
I beat this drum repeatedly during the last parliament, but all I got was constant trolling and lectures on how Sir Keir might be dull and boring, but that didn’t matter as he was so honest and competent. It was his superpower really, no one believed that he could be dishonest and incompetent on top of being dull and boring, so they assumed honest competence.
Given the options available I don't think it was unreasonable for a voter to think that SKS and Labour was the best choice. It remains inexplicable how bad they have been at communicating a decent story, and creating a narrative that a glass half empty and emptying under the Tories is now a glass half full and filling under a 10 year Labour programme, which we can now disclose with honesty and transparency now we have won the election.
Worst steps of all: Kicking social care (Dilnot 2013) out to 'review' to 2028. Failing to use bogus 'black hole' to increase main taxes, ensuring the wealthy paid most and protecting WFA and child benefit.
Thoughts go out to @Cyclefree and you will be sorely missed as your presence is reduced, though hopefully a shorter period than you fear. I will certainly have a word in the ear of the goddess on your behalf next time I grant her an audience.
Secondly and much less importantly for all those fearing the normal 3 parties losing their grip on the electorate and what happens next.
Tough you lot have held power between you for a huge number of decades, your parties are why this country is in the mess it is in currently. Thinking we little people (I discount most on PB as little people as mostly people here are top 10%ers from things they say) should continue to vote for lab,ld,con....because something worse might happen you forget for a lot of us something worse happens anyway everytime one of your parties gets elected.
Now I have no great confidence in either the greens or reform actually achieving anything useful and if either were to get a majority its 80% likely the country will get worse for the bottom half. However the thing you are neglecting is that means there is at least a chance it gets better for the bottom half. Pit that against knowing from decades of experience voting in ld,con,lab gives a 100% chance that things will be getting worse for them and the fact they have little left to lose on to what the comfortably off here see as an insane wager and you can see their point.
Sometimes a house is beyond repair and needs to be demolished and rebuilt, maybe the same is true of nations
Yes that’s exactly right. John Curtice (PBUH) says as much in the Guardian article I linked earlier, on Labour’s woes. A lot of British people have had enough. It’s like a car you take to be MOT’d and the repair guy shakes his head sadly and says “well, you COULD do this and this, and also that, and you need new doors, also a windscreen, and the brakes have gone…”
Enough. To the scrap heap. Start again
So instead you turn to a spiv on the street corner with a handwritten sign saying "Genuine mechanic"? If Reform really do pledge to restore the winter fuel payment and scrap the two child cap then they have amply demonstrated that they are just as opportunistic and intellectually barren as the two major parties. How is giving a massive bung to the economically inactive going to solve anything for working people?
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
There's a very good reason and that's things are pretty good for many millions of people and a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government, could easily destroy all that.
The country needs reform and repair.
But, as in a house which needs repair, that requires the competent not cowboys to do the work.
And nothing about Farage's past or promises suggest he could lead a country competently.
If this was remotely true Labour would not be polling 22% (and falling) and the Tories 16% (and falling)
Meanwhile Reform are on 30% (and rising)
There's plenty of disgruntlement with the establishment parties, rightly so in many cases.
That doesn't mean that the non-establishment parties might not do even worse in government.
Nor does it mean that there aren't many millions of people who should be grateful for what they have but are still endlessly whining that they deserve more.
A lot of the warnings about a Farage government are similar to the “Farage is right, don’t vote for him” mistake. Telling people not to vote for someone because they’ll make a mess of things, having made a mess of things yourself is surely unwise, it invites an obvious response.
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
There's a very good reason and that's things are pretty good for many millions of people and a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government, could easily destroy all that.
The country needs reform and repair.
But, as in a house which needs repair, that requires the competent not cowboys to do the work.
And nothing about Farage's past or promises suggest he could lead a country competently.
If this was remotely true Labour would not be polling 22% (and falling) and the Tories 16% (and falling)
Meanwhile Reform are on 30% (and rising)
There's plenty of disgruntlement with the establishment parties, rightly so in many cases.
That doesn't mean that the non-establishment parties might not do even worse in government.
Nor does it mean that there aren't many millions of people who should be grateful for what they have but are still endlessly whining that they deserve more.
I think that's why Reform might be different. They are both anti-establishment and pro-pensioner. Indeed, the news today about Farage reinstating the WFP demonstrates that - the messaging is deliberately stoking a victim-complex in that cohort.
If Reform can maneuver into being the party of the minted "endless whiners" then they will win the election. And then it will all unravel.
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
Don’t just bin us off with the LabCon. We’re looking at radical changes starting with a solution to care. Needs to me much more more, but it’s a start. And it’s not that Refirm really have polices yet either, just slogans
I’m sorry but no one on God’s green earth is ever going to think “Britain needs radical solutions to terrible problems, who can provide that? - of course, the Lib Dems and “Sir” Ed Davey!”
Yours is a party for cautious, affluent, morally vain middle class people who like to be a tiny bit different but not much
You are quintessentially niche. You might prosper as the Lab Con dual star system finally dies. But Mrs Thatcher Vintage 1979 you are not. And that’s what Britain now needs. A new Thatcher to break everything up
Thatcher would be disgusted with Farage prioritising restoring the WFA and scrapping the two child benefit cap.
Thoughts go out to @Cyclefree and you will be sorely missed as your presence is reduced, though hopefully a shorter period than you fear. I will certainly have a word in the ear of the goddess on your behalf next time I grant her an audience.
Secondly and much less importantly for all those fearing the normal 3 parties losing their grip on the electorate and what happens next.
Tough you lot have held power between you for a huge number of decades, your parties are why this country is in the mess it is in currently. Thinking we little people (I discount most on PB as little people as mostly people here are top 10%ers from things they say) should continue to vote for lab,ld,con....because something worse might happen you forget for a lot of us something worse happens anyway everytime one of your parties gets elected.
Now I have no great confidence in either the greens or reform actually achieving anything useful and if either were to get a majority its 80% likely the country will get worse for the bottom half. However the thing you are neglecting is that means there is at least a chance it gets better for the bottom half. Pit that against knowing from decades of experience voting in ld,con,lab gives a 100% chance that things will be getting worse for them and the fact they have little left to lose on to what the comfortably off here see as an insane wager and you can see their point.
Sometimes a house is beyond repair and needs to be demolished and rebuilt, maybe the same is true of nations
Yes that’s exactly right. John Curtice (PBUH) says as much in the Guardian article I linked earlier, on Labour’s woes. A lot of British people have had enough. It’s like a car you take to be MOT’d and the repair guy shakes his head sadly and says “well, you COULD do this and this, and also that, and you need new doors, also a windscreen, and the brakes have gone…”
Enough. To the scrap heap. Start again
So instead you turn to a spiv on the street corner with a handwritten sign saying "Genuine mechanic"? If Reform really do pledge to restore the winter fuel payment and scrap the two child cap then they have amply demonstrated that they are just as opportunistic and intellectually barren as the two major parties. How is giving a massive bung to the economically inactive going to solve anything for working people?
I don’t give a toss what Farage promises. Just get him into power ASAFP
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
Don’t just bin us off with the LabCon. We’re looking at radical changes starting with a solution to care. Needs to me much more more, but it’s a start. And it’s not that Refirm really have polices yet either, just slogans
I’m sorry but no one on God’s green earth is ever going to think “Britain needs radical solutions to terrible problems, who can provide that? - of course, the Lib Dems and “Sir” Ed Davey!”
Yours is a party for cautious, affluent, morally vain middle class people who like to be a tiny bit different but not much
You are quintessentially niche. You might prosper as the Lab Con dual star system finally dies. But Mrs Thatcher Vintage 1979 you are not. And that’s what Britain now needs. A new Thatcher to break everything up
Thatcher would be disgusted with Farage prioritising restoring the WFA and scrapping the two child benefit cap.
Farage isn't "a new Thatcher"; he's a pound shop Trump.
Thoughts go out to @Cyclefree and you will be sorely missed as your presence is reduced, though hopefully a shorter period than you fear. I will certainly have a word in the ear of the goddess on your behalf next time I grant her an audience.
Secondly and much less importantly for all those fearing the normal 3 parties losing their grip on the electorate and what happens next.
Tough you lot have held power between you for a huge number of decades, your parties are why this country is in the mess it is in currently. Thinking we little people (I discount most on PB as little people as mostly people here are top 10%ers from things they say) should continue to vote for lab,ld,con....because something worse might happen you forget for a lot of us something worse happens anyway everytime one of your parties gets elected.
Now I have no great confidence in either the greens or reform actually achieving anything useful and if either were to get a majority its 80% likely the country will get worse for the bottom half. However the thing you are neglecting is that means there is at least a chance it gets better for the bottom half. Pit that against knowing from decades of experience voting in ld,con,lab gives a 100% chance that things will be getting worse for them and the fact they have little left to lose on to what the comfortably off here see as an insane wager and you can see their point.
Sometimes a house is beyond repair and needs to be demolished and rebuilt, maybe the same is true of nations
Yes that’s exactly right. John Curtice (PBUH) says as much in the Guardian article I linked earlier, on Labour’s woes. A lot of British people have had enough. It’s like a car you take to be MOT’d and the repair guy shakes his head sadly and says “well, you COULD do this and this, and also that, and you need new doors, also a windscreen, and the brakes have gone…”
Enough. To the scrap heap. Start again
You of all of us (with your incessant country-bothering) should know how far we still have to fall, though, before we can 'start again'.
Also, when we start again we are very unlikely to have the advantages of eg untold riches of concentrated buried energy.
Hence you don't really mean 'start again'. You mean 'could all these bothersome poor people please go away?'
Thoughts go out to @Cyclefree and you will be sorely missed as your presence is reduced, though hopefully a shorter period than you fear. I will certainly have a word in the ear of the goddess on your behalf next time I grant her an audience.
Secondly and much less importantly for all those fearing the normal 3 parties losing their grip on the electorate and what happens next.
Tough you lot have held power between you for a huge number of decades, your parties are why this country is in the mess it is in currently. Thinking we little people (I discount most on PB as little people as mostly people here are top 10%ers from things they say) should continue to vote for lab,ld,con....because something worse might happen you forget for a lot of us something worse happens anyway everytime one of your parties gets elected.
Now I have no great confidence in either the greens or reform actually achieving anything useful and if either were to get a majority its 80% likely the country will get worse for the bottom half. However the thing you are neglecting is that means there is at least a chance it gets better for the bottom half. Pit that against knowing from decades of experience voting in ld,con,lab gives a 100% chance that things will be getting worse for them and the fact they have little left to lose on to what the comfortably off here see as an insane wager and you can see their point.
Sometimes a house is beyond repair and needs to be demolished and rebuilt, maybe the same is true of nations
Yes that’s exactly right. John Curtice (PBUH) says as much in the Guardian article I linked earlier, on Labour’s woes. A lot of British people have had enough. It’s like a car you take to be MOT’d and the repair guy shakes his head sadly and says “well, you COULD do this and this, and also that, and you need new doors, also a windscreen, and the brakes have gone…”
Enough. To the scrap heap. Start again
So instead you turn to a spiv on the street corner with a handwritten sign saying "Genuine mechanic"? If Reform really do pledge to restore the winter fuel payment and scrap the two child cap then they have amply demonstrated that they are just as opportunistic and intellectually barren as the two major parties. How is giving a massive bung to the economically inactive going to solve anything for working people?
I don’t give a toss what Farage promises. Just get him into power ASAFP
Oh seriously? You can't play the anti establishment populist and then triangulate your way into power. Aren't you the one who's always banging on about how pathetic Kier Starmer is for continually changing his policy position every week?
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
There's a very good reason and that's things are pretty good for many millions of people and a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government, could easily destroy all that.
The country needs reform and repair.
But, as in a house which needs repair, that requires the competent not cowboys to do the work.
And nothing about Farage's past or promises suggest he could lead a country competently.
If this was remotely true Labour would not be polling 22% (and falling) and the Tories 16% (and falling)
Meanwhile Reform are on 30% (and rising)
There's plenty of disgruntlement with the establishment parties, rightly so in many cases.
That doesn't mean that the non-establishment parties might not do even worse in government.
Nor does it mean that there aren't many millions of people who should be grateful for what they have but are still endlessly whining that they deserve more.
This is far beyond “disgruntlement”. Read the room
Or look across the west. Britain is not alone. The populist/nationalist right is surging everywhere because an entire ideology - mass immigration plus multiculturalism - has failed
You're still babbling about causes without any thought about consequences.
You view a Farage government, and doubtless Le Pen and AfD governments, as the end result, end of the story and happily ever after.
Its not, it would be the beginning. That is when the hard work would start and the difficult decisions have to be taken.
And I don't see any evidence that Farage's rabble of malcontents have the ideas, honesty or competence to reform anything.
I am also aware that I have much to lose from a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government.
So do many millions of others, even if they're not aware of it now they would soon be with an actual Farage government.
Just stopping by to wish @Cyclefree all the best and strength for the road ahead. Good luck with your treatment - my sincerest best wishes to you and your family today.
Thoughts go out to @Cyclefree and you will be sorely missed as your presence is reduced, though hopefully a shorter period than you fear. I will certainly have a word in the ear of the goddess on your behalf next time I grant her an audience.
Secondly and much less importantly for all those fearing the normal 3 parties losing their grip on the electorate and what happens next.
Tough you lot have held power between you for a huge number of decades, your parties are why this country is in the mess it is in currently. Thinking we little people (I discount most on PB as little people as mostly people here are top 10%ers from things they say) should continue to vote for lab,ld,con....because something worse might happen you forget for a lot of us something worse happens anyway everytime one of your parties gets elected.
Now I have no great confidence in either the greens or reform actually achieving anything useful and if either were to get a majority its 80% likely the country will get worse for the bottom half. However the thing you are neglecting is that means there is at least a chance it gets better for the bottom half. Pit that against knowing from decades of experience voting in ld,con,lab gives a 100% chance that things will be getting worse for them and the fact they have little left to lose on to what the comfortably off here see as an insane wager and you can see their point.
Sometimes a house is beyond repair and needs to be demolished and rebuilt, maybe the same is true of nations
Yes that’s exactly right. John Curtice (PBUH) says as much in the Guardian article I linked earlier, on Labour’s woes. A lot of British people have had enough. It’s like a car you take to be MOT’d and the repair guy shakes his head sadly and says “well, you COULD do this and this, and also that, and you need new doors, also a windscreen, and the brakes have gone…”
Enough. To the scrap heap. Start again
You of all of us (with your incessant country-bothering) should know how far we still have to fall, though, before we can 'start again'.
Also, when we start again we are very unlikely to have the advantages of eg untold riches of concentrated buried energy.
Hence you don't really mean 'start again'. You mean 'could all these bothersome poor people please go away?'
No I mean something like Douglas Carswell’s Plan for Britain. I’ve linked to it often enough. A comprehensive retooling of the state, a destruction of the Woke Establishment, a dismantling of the migrant/asylum complex, and so on
There's an interesting article on tory machinations in the ST this morning.
Highlights...
Everyone knows it's all over for KB. It's just a question of exactly which electoral calamities she is going to be the human shield for ahead of the inevitable binning. The bit about KB's giddyup speech after the locals was darkly amusing.
Johnson's Tonton Macoute in the party have identified 8 seats which they think he can win in a by-election if the incumbent were to step aside.
In an amazing development, apparently, the toothy doyenne of the Management Consultancy Industrial Complex, Laura Trott is being touted as a leadership candidate.
From Shipper's piece;
His allies are hoping one of the eight MPs who won more than 50 per cent of the vote in 2024 would stand aside for him.
but I think the only seat where the Conservatives won an absolute majority is Bob Blackman's Harrow East. Part of the Conservative problem is that they still haven't internalised how deep in trouble they are.
Yeah Harrow waa the only 50% definitely. I guess they are figuring that polling which showed him as best to face Reform means he'd partially stop/reverse the vote loss to them in a by election. Harrow East or Ruislip are the only 2 id feel safe betting on him right now though
Boris would have to be careful with Harrow East. Bob Blackman has been so electorally successful there because he has been assiduous to the point of occasional absurdity in courting the massive Hindu vote. If Boris took a hands off approach to his new constituency then that support could melt away. Also Blackman is now Chair of the 1922 Committee and seems to be enjoying being a big cheese in the Commons Administration. I can't imagine he'd be keen to stand aside.
According to my calculations (which are sometimes correct!), at the Indian election last year, despite handing Modi and co. a majority (albeit reduced), it seems that left or left-leaning parties actually got more votes than right or right-leaning parties!
Thoughts go out to @Cyclefree and you will be sorely missed as your presence is reduced, though hopefully a shorter period than you fear. I will certainly have a word in the ear of the goddess on your behalf next time I grant her an audience.
Secondly and much less importantly for all those fearing the normal 3 parties losing their grip on the electorate and what happens next.
Tough you lot have held power between you for a huge number of decades, your parties are why this country is in the mess it is in currently. Thinking we little people (I discount most on PB as little people as mostly people here are top 10%ers from things they say) should continue to vote for lab,ld,con....because something worse might happen you forget for a lot of us something worse happens anyway everytime one of your parties gets elected.
Now I have no great confidence in either the greens or reform actually achieving anything useful and if either were to get a majority its 80% likely the country will get worse for the bottom half. However the thing you are neglecting is that means there is at least a chance it gets better for the bottom half. Pit that against knowing from decades of experience voting in ld,con,lab gives a 100% chance that things will be getting worse for them and the fact they have little left to lose on to what the comfortably off here see as an insane wager and you can see their point.
Sometimes a house is beyond repair and needs to be demolished and rebuilt, maybe the same is true of nations
Yes that’s exactly right. John Curtice (PBUH) says as much in the Guardian article I linked earlier, on Labour’s woes. A lot of British people have had enough. It’s like a car you take to be MOT’d and the repair guy shakes his head sadly and says “well, you COULD do this and this, and also that, and you need new doors, also a windscreen, and the brakes have gone…”
Enough. To the scrap heap. Start again
You of all of us (with your incessant country-bothering) should know how far we still have to fall, though, before we can 'start again'.
Also, when we start again we are very unlikely to have the advantages of eg untold riches of concentrated buried energy.
Hence you don't really mean 'start again'. You mean 'could all these bothersome poor people please go away?'
No I mean something like Douglas Carswell’s Plan for Britain. I’ve linked to it often enough. A comprehensive retooling of the state, a destruction of the Woke Establishment, a dismantling of the migrant/asylum complex, and so on
Kemi Badenoch: “I came to the UK with my dad’s last £100, working at McDonald’s - look where I am now.”
Trevor Phillips: “12 points adrift in the polls, that’s where you are.”
That's just Phillps being cheap. It adds nothing to politics when the journalists are doing stand up
No, that’s good TV journalism. Also, funny
Trevor Phillips is a sharp likeable voice
Nah. It's perfectly valid to be probing why the Tories are underperforming, ask why she's taking them backwards but a 'zinger' in response to someone's back story and where they have got to is just cheap. The rise to LoTO from her beginnings is a success story regardless of how she's now performing. Cheap jibes are for the likes of us on here, not national TV.
As someone else wrote, what a way to start a Sunday morning! I wish Ms Cyclefree all the best; others in my circle are in a similar position and it's exceedingly worrying. However she is, compared with those in my circle, quite young and has therefore a reasonable chance of coming to a position where matters are going to admittedly deteriorate, but much more slowly. I was told, some three years ago, at the age of 84, that if I did not have an operation on my spine I would be, in a couple of years, paralysed and bed-bound. I had the operation and while I'm by no means as mobile as I was five years ago, when things started to go wrong, I am sitting in my study in front of a computer typing this. Not well, admittedly, but I am. I walked here from the breakfast table, admittedly again using a walking aid, but I can get about the house. I have to have help showering and so on but I'm by no means bed-bound. And I've bought an electric scooter on which I can do some shopping, go to social groups within a reasonable range and get into at least one of the local pubs, luckily my favourite. The point of this is to cry Nil Desperandum, and to encourage Ms Cyclefree to go for it and work towards recovery. The support post operation that I've had from physios, occupational therapists and the like has been encouraging; I am now having monthly appointments with a physio who thinks he can get me walking unaided, before too long. I've also had considerable support on here, notably from MattW. So while I am certain that when our colleague looks to the future it looks anything but rosy, with determination and support she can find a future which fulfilling and rewarding.
I don't do deadlifts; can't stand unaided at the moment but I do half an hour's 'physical jerks' every morning. I've often thought that if I could get to a gym I would.
Pure bodyweight exercises will get you a long way if you're starting from a low base: Most people start by lifting less than their own weight on a bar, after all. The main advantage of fixed weights is that you get to measure your progress easily, and increase easily by a fixed amount rather than letting yourself plateau.
Ridiculous that fairly wealthy but not millionaire pensioners might be getting the winter fuel payments again.
The administrative cost of excluding millionaires will probably end up being about the same as giving it to them, which would sum up how stupid British politics has become recently.
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
There's a very good reason and that's things are pretty good for many millions of people and a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government, could easily destroy all that.
The country needs reform and repair.
But, as in a house which needs repair, that requires the competent not cowboys to do the work.
And nothing about Farage's past or promises suggest he could lead a country competently.
If this was remotely true Labour would not be polling 22% (and falling) and the Tories 16% (and falling)
Meanwhile Reform are on 30% (and rising)
There's plenty of disgruntlement with the establishment parties, rightly so in many cases.
That doesn't mean that the non-establishment parties might not do even worse in government.
Nor does it mean that there aren't many millions of people who should be grateful for what they have but are still endlessly whining that they deserve more.
This is far beyond “disgruntlement”. Read the room
Or look across the west. Britain is not alone. The populist/nationalist right is surging everywhere because an entire ideology - mass immigration plus multiculturalism - has failed
You're still babbling about causes without any thought about consequences.
You view a Farage government, and doubtless Le Pen and AfD governments, as the end result, end of the story and happily ever after.
Its not, it would be the beginning. That is when the hard work would start and the difficult decisions have to be taken.
And I don't see any evidence that Farage's rabble of malcontents have the ideas, honesty or competence to reform anything.
I am also aware that I have much to lose from a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government.
So do many millions of others, even if they're not aware of it now they would soon be with an actual Farage government.
Indeed. There were reasons for thinking that voting Labour in 2024 would deliver a decent degree of competence, leadership and long term planning with excellent communication as to the way this would be progressed, and an acceptable degree of honesty and transparency. I don't think so far this has occurred, and polls suggest something similar.
There is, SFAICS, zero prospect of Reform being either honest ot competent. Their most recent set of policies is sheer fantasy, and there is no prospect of their high command having a secret store of real sane policies they are keeping under wraps. At this stage they are simply engaging in supporting anything and everything to get disgruntled voters' support.
Which altogether is why, I think, the LDs are quietly doing well in the polls. Fairly untainted, not given to total fantasy. No other party can now claim that garland.
For some reason I thought Blanche was female for a long time from their style of writing but I think I was embarrassingly wrong. Difficult to know sometimes.
Kemi Badenoch: “I came to the UK with my dad’s last £100, working at McDonald’s - look where I am now.”
Trevor Phillips: “12 points adrift in the polls, that’s where you are.”
That's just Phillps being cheap. It adds nothing to politics when the journalists are doing stand up
No, that’s good TV journalism. Also, funny
Trevor Phillips is a sharp likeable voice
Nah. It's perfectly valid to be probing why the Tories are underperforming, ask why she's taking them backwards but a 'zinger' in response to someone's back story and where they have got to is just cheap. The rise to LoTO from her beginnings is a success story regardless of how she's now performing. Cheap jibes are for the likes of us on here, not national TV.
No. I’ve watched the clip again. She was making a vacuous narcissistic point about herself, like a bright but vain teenager - she deserved the zinger
She’s not campaigning to be NUS leader in a mid-ranking university - but that’s how she comes across
It’s just not good enough. She’s LOTO hoping to be prime minister. But - as I feared (with many others) - she’s quintessentially lightweight, and not as clever as she thinks
I like her. In a few years she might make a good minister for anti-Wokeness, or something. But she is not a politician who can save the Tories
The pensioner debate is an endless source of wonder. The nation seems caught between those who want quintuple lock riches for them and those that think the second they stop being 'working people' they should be forced to downsize and sleep four crusties to a bed like in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Thank you Cyclefree. I did not anticipate the direction that the header would take and I wish you all the best at a very difficult time for you and your family. Your presence will certainly be missed by me. Whilst pb is full of analysis and debate about the right or wrong political views your attempt to bring a more moral dimension is much appreciated by some of us. I would not have had a good handle on the post office scandal before it blew up post ITV without you. It troubles me that you feel there is backsliding taking place on male/female relations. As a lowly commoner it's puzzling since elites seem to spend a great deal of time (and HR!) insisting upon such things. We all know there are particular issues which I'll leave for another time.
One thought. I don't blame this specifically on feminism but in our pursuit of gender equality it has become somewhat taboo to say the obvious - that come the teenage years boys become much more physically strong than girls. It implies the need for a degree of responsibility that comes with this. Perhaps a revival of the term gentleman, in the literal meaning of the word rather than any class connotations, whereby seeking to put people, particularly women, at ease. Blase attitudes to crime are not helpful and generally signal one's privilege. Regardless of migration living among strangers is a reality of city life and us men should consider how approachable we seem. It's fundamentally a matter of how we raise our children in an era when parents seem reluctant to be disliked (I admit that's easy for a childless person like myself to say). The lack of elite leadership doesn't help.
I don't care for Formula One though I admit to occasionally commenting on the cricket though generally restricted to the proper gritty five day form of the game. What can I say? (shrug of the shoulders). I hope you'll forgive me.
As someone else wrote, what a way to start a Sunday morning! I wish Ms Cyclefree all the best; others in my circle are in a similar position and it's exceedingly worrying. However she is, compared with those in my circle, quite young and has therefore a reasonable chance of coming to a position where matters are going to admittedly deteriorate, but much more slowly. I was told, some three years ago, at the age of 84, that if I did not have an operation on my spine I would be, in a couple of years, paralysed and bed-bound. I had the operation and while I'm by no means as mobile as I was five years ago, when things started to go wrong, I am sitting in my study in front of a computer typing this. Not well, admittedly, but I am. I walked here from the breakfast table, admittedly again using a walking aid, but I can get about the house. I have to have help showering and so on but I'm by no means bed-bound. And I've bought an electric scooter on which I can do some shopping, go to social groups within a reasonable range and get into at least one of the local pubs, luckily my favourite. The point of this is to cry Nil Desperandum, and to encourage Ms Cyclefree to go for it and work towards recovery. The support post operation that I've had from physios, occupational therapists and the like has been encouraging; I am now having monthly appointments with a physio who thinks he can get me walking unaided, before too long. I've also had considerable support on here, notably from MattW. So while I am certain that when our colleague looks to the future it looks anything but rosy, with determination and support she can find a future which fulfilling and rewarding.
I don't do deadlifts; can't stand unaided at the moment but I do half an hour's 'physical jerks' every morning. I've often thought that if I could get to a gym I would.
Pure bodyweight exercises will get you a long way if you're starting from a low base: Most people start by lifting less than their own weight on a bar, after all. The main advantage of fixed weights is that you get to measure your progress easily, and increase easily by a fixed amount rather than letting yourself plateau.
It's something I've thought about, although pretty well all my problems are balance-related and weights alone are not much use there. If I could stand, or sit on a stool, unsupported then weights would be useful. It's amazing how much effective muscle can be lost as a result of the sort of surgery I had.
The pensioner debate is an endless source of wonder. The nation seems caught between those who want quintuple lock riches for them and those that think the second they stop being 'working people' they should be forced to downsize and sleep four crusties to a bed like in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Don't think there are any/many of the latter to be honest. Most people who want the triple lock gone would also be happy to see an increase in pension credit to support the poorest pensioners.
Another week goes by and I am steadfast in my belief that the only way Labour is going to win any votes back is by showing delivery. Nothing else they will do will move the dial.
If immigration falls significantly, NHS waiting lists drop, the economy is growing and people feel better off, they will be in a strong position.
Until then, they will continue to poll badly. But crucially, they have the levers to pull, they have many years to pull them. I still feel their death is very much exaggerated.
I thought Kemi Badenoch was absolutely right to say that millionaires shouldn't get the winter fuel payment. That is how Labour should have gone about this change originally. Oddly they got the balance just right on the private school changes but not with this.
Their comms continue to be very bad - but all this will be irrelevant if they show delivery. People will accept their many faults if the can make the country a better place. I think they do know that but it's whether they are prepared to actually pull those levers.
Farage isn't facing much scrutiny yet. That will change, his policies will unravel. But people will not care unless Labour has shown they can make positive impact.
My essential view is thus, it's still too early for any of the changes Labour make really to show any positive impact. I never felt they would be able to do that within a year but it's failure of comms to not make that clear.
It would be the perfect example of British politics if Labour has introduced WFP for nearly everyone despite not wanting to because they thought Farage was going to announce the same thing, and Farage is doing it to win votes even though he doesn't believe in it either. Is there a word for this sort of thing, like zugzwang?
Kemi Badenoch: “I came to the UK with my dad’s last £100, working at McDonald’s - look where I am now.”
Trevor Phillips: “12 points adrift in the polls, that’s where you are.”
That's just Phillps being cheap. It adds nothing to politics when the journalists are doing stand up
No, that’s good TV journalism. Also, funny
Trevor Phillips is a sharp likeable voice
Nah. It's perfectly valid to be probing why the Tories are underperforming, ask why she's taking them backwards but a 'zinger' in response to someone's back story and where they have got to is just cheap. The rise to LoTO from her beginnings is a success story regardless of how she's now performing. Cheap jibes are for the likes of us on here, not national TV.
No. I’ve watched the clip again. She was making a vacuous narcissistic point about herself, like a bright but vain teenager - she deserved the zinger
She’s not campaigning to be NUS leader in a mid-ranking university - but that’s how she comes across
It’s just not good enough. She’s LOTO hoping to be prime minister. But - as I feared (with many others) - she’s quintessentially lightweight, and not as clever as she thinks
I like her. In a few years she might make a good minister for anti-Wokeness, or something. But she is not a politician who can save the Tories
I haven't watched it but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt as she is driven by opposing the culture of defeatism that pervades much of this country i.e the bigotry of low expectations. I wonder if she is still aggrieved about being told to consider doing nursing rather than medicine by her careers adviser? It's all there in the TED Talk for anyone who can be bothered to watch it.
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
There's a very good reason and that's things are pretty good for many millions of people and a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government, could easily destroy all that.
The country needs reform and repair.
But, as in a house which needs repair, that requires the competent not cowboys to do the work.
And nothing about Farage's past or promises suggest he could lead a country competently.
If this was remotely true Labour would not be polling 22% (and falling) and the Tories 16% (and falling)
Meanwhile Reform are on 30% (and rising)
There's plenty of disgruntlement with the establishment parties, rightly so in many cases.
That doesn't mean that the non-establishment parties might not do even worse in government.
Nor does it mean that there aren't many millions of people who should be grateful for what they have but are still endlessly whining that they deserve more.
This is far beyond “disgruntlement”. Read the room
Or look across the west. Britain is not alone. The populist/nationalist right is surging everywhere because an entire ideology - mass immigration plus multiculturalism - has failed
You're still babbling about causes without any thought about consequences.
You view a Farage government, and doubtless Le Pen and AfD governments, as the end result, end of the story and happily ever after.
Its not, it would be the beginning. That is when the hard work would start and the difficult decisions have to be taken.
And I don't see any evidence that Farage's rabble of malcontents have the ideas, honesty or competence to reform anything.
I am also aware that I have much to lose from a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government.
So do many millions of others, even if they're not aware of it now they would soon be with an actual Farage government.
Indeed. There were reasons for thinking that voting Labour in 2024 would deliver a decent degree of competence, leadership and long term planning with excellent communication as to the way this would be progressed, and an acceptable degree of honesty and transparency. I don't think so far this has occurred, and polls suggest something similar.
There is, SFAICS, zero prospect of Reform being either honest ot competent. Their most recent set of policies is sheer fantasy, and there is no prospect of their high command having a secret store of real sane policies they are keeping under wraps. At this stage they are simply engaging in supporting anything and everything to get disgruntled voters' support.
Which altogether is why, I think, the LDs are quietly doing well in the polls. Fairly untainted, not given to total fantasy. No other party can now claim that garland.
That’s the Lib Dems that literally wanted to Revoke the Brexit vote? They didn’t even want a 2nd vote - they just wanted to simply cancel the biggest vote in British history and tell 17 million people “you’re too stupid to vote, so from now on we’re just going to ignore you whenever we like. Vote for us!”
If anything is fantasy politics it is that. It was a fantastically stupid idea which would have destroyed British democracy overnight and probably caused civil disorder
Fuck the Lib Dems. They are the most ridiculous of ALL the parties
The pensioner debate is an endless source of wonder. The nation seems caught between those who want quintuple lock riches for them and those that think the second they stop being 'working people' they should be forced to downsize and sleep four crusties to a bed like in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Don't think there are any/many of the latter to be honest. Most people who want the triple lock gone would also be happy to see an increase in pension credit to support the poorest pensioners.
The sooner we move to a hypotheacated pension pot for all the better. And a percentage of ALL income or benefits paid to be automatically diverted to a pension pot which cannot be touched until SRA with a massive campaign to push all to realise that doing their own thing on top of that is not just sensible but essential
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
There's a very good reason and that's things are pretty good for many millions of people and a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government, could easily destroy all that.
The country needs reform and repair.
But, as in a house which needs repair, that requires the competent not cowboys to do the work.
And nothing about Farage's past or promises suggest he could lead a country competently.
If this was remotely true Labour would not be polling 22% (and falling) and the Tories 16% (and falling)
Meanwhile Reform are on 30% (and rising)
There's plenty of disgruntlement with the establishment parties, rightly so in many cases.
That doesn't mean that the non-establishment parties might not do even worse in government.
Nor does it mean that there aren't many millions of people who should be grateful for what they have but are still endlessly whining that they deserve more.
I think that's why Reform might be different. They are both anti-establishment and pro-pensioner. Indeed, the news today about Farage reinstating the WFP demonstrates that - the messaging is deliberately stoking a victim-complex in that cohort.
If Reform can maneuver into being the party of the minted "endless whiners" then they will win the election. And then it will all unravel.
Reform have won control over several councils. If their upward trend continues, they may even win Wales. We will be able to see how they perform, and whether it's any better (or worse) than what came before.
“Opinion polls don’t always provide a precise picture of voters’ mood – and the next general election is still four years away. But Labour strategists will doubtless be poring over the data, and it’s not pretty.
Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.”
I think of the 2026 and 2025 locals had been reversed Labour would have had that fourth behind the LDs with YouGov - next year will be apocalyptic for them. It's not impossible they go fourth in Scotland and, at best, they will be Plaids little helpers in Wales and they will likely lose well over 1000 councillors, possibly 1500-2000
Yes, when you drill into the polling the situation for Labour is actually worse than it looks. eg
“Labour is not winning the blame game on the economy – something that it put a lot of emphasis on in its early days of power with the chancellor Rachel Reeves’ claims of a “£22bn hole” of unfunded commitments for 2024.
Among those who view the economy negatively, Ipsos polling shows that the decisions of Starmer and Reeves are seen as the biggest contributing factor (56%) – more significant than the Covid-19 pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
So the whole “blame the Tories, look at the black hole” shtick has already failed, and will, of course, never succeed now. No one is going to think “no, wait, I was wrong - it WAS the Tories”
Given that Labour have no clue what to do on the economy other than sad woke tinkering, this seems terminal. They need a Falklands War AND they need Farage to go away, and even that might not be enough
The Scooby Gang will be peeling off Reeves mask to reveal it was Reeves all along. They are cooked. Actually the establishment is cooked. Where we probably differ is that I'm 100% convinced Farage breaking everyones hearts and hopes will be just as rapid
I’m not sure we differ THAT much. I’m not convinced Farage is the solution either - I AM convinced we’ve tried everything else, so his road is the only option left
I am also convinced that mass immigration and the increasingly desperate attempts by the Establishment to pretend that it is “working” and that “diversity is our strength” is at the root of many of our problems. From low productivity to housing to “two tier justice” to our fraying national identity - the continued importation of millions of people entirely foreign to the UK is making everything worse, fast
This is not the fault of the migrants, who merely and naturally want a better life. It’s the fault of the politicians who have so casually opened our borders
It’s an experiment that has failed, disastrously. It must be ended and remedied. The Danish social democrats have shown you can do this without tearing society apart. A sensible Labour government would copy them. We don’t have a sensible government
So Farage it is
And then what ?
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
So be it. You Tories had your chance. We gave you 14 fucking years and you rewarded our votes with gross incompetence, venal greed, oafish arrogance and terminal stupidity. Your party must die. Good riddance and bye bye
I'm not a Tory and I had plenty of criticisms over those 14 years.
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
Farage may be that or he may not. We’ve never seen him in government so who knows
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
There's a very good reason and that's things are pretty good for many millions of people and a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government, could easily destroy all that.
The country needs reform and repair.
But, as in a house which needs repair, that requires the competent not cowboys to do the work.
And nothing about Farage's past or promises suggest he could lead a country competently.
If this was remotely true Labour would not be polling 22% (and falling) and the Tories 16% (and falling)
Meanwhile Reform are on 30% (and rising)
There's plenty of disgruntlement with the establishment parties, rightly so in many cases.
That doesn't mean that the non-establishment parties might not do even worse in government.
Nor does it mean that there aren't many millions of people who should be grateful for what they have but are still endlessly whining that they deserve more.
I think that's why Reform might be different. They are both anti-establishment and pro-pensioner. Indeed, the news today about Farage reinstating the WFP demonstrates that - the messaging is deliberately stoking a victim-complex in that cohort.
If Reform can maneuver into being the party of the minted "endless whiners" then they will win the election. And then it will all unravel.
Reform have won control over several councils. If their upward trend continues, they may even win Wales. We will be able to see how they perform, and whether it's any better (or worse) than what came before.
They might be better off not winning Wales, if they form an administration there and it's a disaster it may cost them in 2029. Of course if there's 30 months of delirious Taffy's on the telly..........
A line from Sam Freedman that nails Farage's superpower;
A billionaire businessman in Mayfair and a hard-up single mum in Grimsby can both imagine Farage would govern in their interests.
Ultimately, he can't, because there aren't enough diversity officers to fill the gap between their different aspirations. But as long as Farage can be the political equivalent of Schrödinger's Cat, big state and tiny state at once, he will remain popular.
Extreme power over-generation today. Exporting everything we can via interconnectors, stocking up dinorwig and still a negative price per mwh of -£4.60.
This is where we need way more batteries, and that new 30gwh pumped storage facility in Scotland will help.
Wind 16.45gw, Solar 8.70gw. An all time point record.
Comments
ReFUK are going to run into early difficulties because the stuff they said they would abolish (like LTNs) don't actually exist. But that is nothing compared to what Boris Boris* would be like.
He can't sell the promise of Brexit. He can't sell levelling up. He can't sell a fucking garden bridge. He has no grand plans, no grand ambitions, no vision for the future beyond World King.
*I assume that Boris, like Betelgeuse, is a curse that comes back if you keep repeating his name
It's some weird distillation of that. It's not about policy or politics really
A failed Farage government, aside from all the socioeconomic damage it may cause, could be replaced by a hard left government.
desperation and would almost certainly be seen as such, after an initial burst of curiosity
That said, the Tories ARE desperate so maybe they will try it. A final roll of the dice
Bad news for Bob Jenrick though if not even the fantasists put much faith in him.
The state gives many workers sod all, its the oldies where the state lavishes its money.
If you want actual reform, if you want an actual reduction in the 'vast and unstainable proportion of GDP the state sucks up' then oldies must lose out.
And not just by 'crumbs' either.
Of course if you swallow them (Mr Farage) don't be wondering what that feeling of being eaten from the inside out is......
Nonetheless a merger of some kind is quite likely. I noticed that Dan Hannan is a convert to this idea. So some Tories are clearly considering it
However, if it happens, the Tories will be the minor, supplicant party
If Farage was offering competent, patriotic Reform I could happily vote for it.
Instead he's promising magic money tree fantasies, heavily tinged with Trumpist and Putinist sympathies.
I wish Ms Cyclefree all the best; others in my circle are in a similar position and it's exceedingly worrying. However she is, compared with those in my circle, quite young and has therefore a reasonable chance of coming to a position where matters are going to admittedly deteriorate, but much more slowly.
I was told, some three years ago, at the age of 84, that if I did not have an operation on my spine I would be, in a couple of years, paralysed and bed-bound. I had the operation and while I'm by no means as mobile as I was five years ago, when things started to go wrong, I am sitting in my study in front of a computer typing this. Not well, admittedly, but I am.
I walked here from the breakfast table, admittedly again using a walking aid, but I can get about the house. I have to have help showering and so on but I'm by no means bed-bound. And I've bought an electric scooter on which I can do some shopping, go to social groups within a reasonable range and get into at least one of the local pubs, luckily my favourite.
The point of this is to cry Nil Desperandum, and to encourage Ms Cyclefree to go for it and work towards recovery. The support post operation that I've had from physios, occupational therapists and the like has been encouraging; I am now having monthly appointments with a physio who thinks he can get me walking unaided, before too long.
I've also had considerable support on here, notably from MattW.
So while I am certain that when our colleague looks to the future it looks anything but rosy, with determination and support she can find a future which fulfilling and rewarding.
I also don't see how you think it's even possible that Reform councillors didn't know about an absence of LTNs in their own area. I think it's probably the usual suspects trying to build on the first 'gotcha' they thought they'd scored. The direction of travel was clearly in establishing more and more of them - good for Reform in banning them - prevention is better than cure.
The fact is the Tories catastrophically failed in their 14 years and now Labour have catastrophically failed in just 10 months
Why should any British voter give them ANOTHER chance? There is no reason for this, it is Einstein’s definition of madness. Given that the Libs are just more-of-the-same that leaves us with Farage
I beat this drum repeatedly during the last parliament, but all I got was constant trolling and lectures on how Sir Keir might be dull and boring, but that didn’t matter as he was so honest and competent. It was his superpower really, no one believed that he could be dishonest and incompetent on top of being dull and boring, so they assumed honest competence.
I wish Cyclefree the best of luck with the treatment and the course of this disease.
Now I fear it is too late for him and for them
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EiVcO8jakAc
If you can't afford to bring up your children you shouldn't have had them.
He really does have many underclass attributes:
Too many children by too many mothers.
Claiming every handout, whether entitled or not.
Borrowing money from everyone he can, without any intention of paying it back.
A slipshod attitude to doing any work.
So without access to Shipman's notes or story, it is not clear what are the criteria but anyway, there are apparently eight possible sacrificial lambs. Let's hope they've not counted Kemi among them.
You’ve nailed it completely
It’s like some woman deciding to marry the earnest boring guy, rather than the funny alpha male who might cheat on her, then discovering the earnest boring guy is a workless alcoholic who visits hookers every week
Otoh, there are some obvious examples of retrofits that Reform have not yet pledged to change, like Durham city centre: https://www.lowtrafficneighbourhoods.org/map/modalfilters,ltns/#14.31/54.77535/-1.57063
All his failings are reasons some people like him because he bluffs them not being failings and quotes Latin and charms Nan and will definitely get the drinks in next time.
He's dangerous. Still.
The country needs reform and repair.
But, as in a house which needs repair, that requires the competent not cowboys to do the work.
And nothing about Farage's past or promises suggest he could lead a country competently.
Yours is a party for cautious, affluent, morally vain middle class people who like to be a tiny bit different but not much
You are quintessentially niche. You might prosper as the Lab Con dual star system finally dies. But Mrs Thatcher Vintage 1979 you are not. And that’s what Britain now needs. A new Thatcher to break everything up
Meanwhile Reform are on 30% (and rising)
Thoughts go out to @Cyclefree and you will be sorely missed as your presence is reduced, though hopefully a shorter period than you fear. I will certainly have a word in the ear of the goddess on your behalf next time I grant her an audience.
Secondly and much less importantly for all those fearing the normal 3 parties losing their grip on the electorate and what happens next.
Tough you lot have held power between you for a huge number of decades, your parties are why this country is in the mess it is in currently. Thinking we little people (I discount most on PB as little people as mostly people here are top 10%ers from things they say) should continue to vote for lab,ld,con....because something worse might happen you forget for a lot of us something worse happens anyway everytime one of your parties gets elected.
Now I have no great confidence in either the greens or reform actually achieving anything useful and if either were to get a majority its 80% likely the country will get worse for the bottom half. However the thing you are neglecting is that means there is at least a chance it gets better for the bottom half. Pit that against knowing from decades of experience voting in ld,con,lab gives a 100% chance that things will be getting worse for them and the fact they have little left to lose on to what the comfortably off here see as an insane wager and you can see their point.
Sometimes a house is beyond repair and needs to be demolished and rebuilt, maybe the same is true of nations
Kemi Badenoch: “I came to the UK with my dad’s last £100, working at McDonald’s - look where I am now.”
Trevor Phillips: “12 points adrift in the polls, that’s where you are.”
Which isn’t about “slashing budgets” or “firing all the DEI officers”.
It’s about aligning jobs, tools and processes with the work that actually needs to be done. At the moment, for example, social workers spend 60-70%+ of their time on paperwork. Much is about duplicated reporting in various systems or requesting resources in a ridiculously inefficient way.
If we reduce that burden by 10% - so they are only spend 50%-60% of their time on admin - we would increase the hours of social work available by 25%+
Imagine a world where we got the admin down to 25% of their time….
Enough. To the scrap heap. Start again
That doesn't mean that the non-establishment parties might not do even worse in government.
Nor does it mean that there aren't many millions of people who should be grateful for what they have but are still endlessly whining that they deserve more.
Or look across the west. Britain is not alone. The populist/nationalist right is surging everywhere because an entire ideology - mass immigration plus multiculturalism - has failed
Worst steps of all: Kicking social care (Dilnot 2013) out to 'review' to 2028. Failing to use bogus 'black hole' to increase main taxes, ensuring the wealthy paid most and protecting WFA and child benefit.
If Reform can maneuver into being the party of the minted "endless whiners" then they will win the election. And then it will all unravel.
Trevor Phillips is a sharp likeable voice
Also, when we start again we are very unlikely to have the advantages of eg untold riches of concentrated buried energy.
Hence you don't really mean 'start again'. You mean 'could all these bothersome poor people please go away?'
You view a Farage government, and doubtless Le Pen and AfD governments, as the end result, end of the story and happily ever after.
Its not, it would be the beginning. That is when the hard work would start and the difficult decisions have to be taken.
And I don't see any evidence that Farage's rabble of malcontents have the ideas, honesty or competence to reform anything.
I am also aware that I have much to lose from a failed Farage government, especially if followed by a hard left government.
So do many millions of others, even if they're not aware of it now they would soon be with an actual Farage government.
https://x.com/skynews/status/1926555117106466948?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
It is a sad moment. Quite distressing reading that, first thing this morning. Maybe that’s why I’m rambling on about politics - it’s displacement
Cheap jibes are for the likes of us on here, not national TV.
But it would leave a huge hole.
The administrative cost of excluding millionaires will probably end up being about the same as giving it to them, which would sum up how stupid British politics has become recently.
There is, SFAICS, zero prospect of Reform being either honest ot competent. Their most recent set of policies is sheer fantasy, and there is no prospect of their high command having a secret store of real sane policies they are keeping under wraps. At this stage they are simply engaging in supporting anything and everything to get disgruntled voters' support.
Which altogether is why, I think, the LDs are quietly doing well in the polls. Fairly untainted, not given to total fantasy. No other party can now claim that garland.
She’s not campaigning to be NUS leader in a mid-ranking university - but that’s how she comes across
It’s just not good enough. She’s LOTO hoping to be prime minister. But - as I feared (with many others) - she’s quintessentially lightweight, and not as clever as she thinks
I like her. In a few years she might make a good minister for anti-Wokeness, or something. But she is not a politician who can save the Tories
One thought. I don't blame this specifically on feminism but in our pursuit of gender equality it has become somewhat taboo to say the obvious - that come the teenage years boys become much more physically strong than girls. It implies the need for a degree of responsibility that comes with this. Perhaps a revival of the term gentleman, in the literal meaning of the word rather than any class connotations, whereby seeking to put people, particularly women, at ease. Blase attitudes to crime are not helpful and generally signal one's privilege. Regardless of migration living among strangers is a reality of city life and us men should consider how approachable we seem. It's fundamentally a matter of how we raise our children in an era when parents seem reluctant to be disliked (I admit that's easy for a childless person like myself to say). The lack of elite leadership doesn't help.
I don't care for Formula One though I admit to occasionally commenting on the cricket though generally restricted to the proper gritty five day form of the game. What can I say? (shrug of the shoulders). I hope you'll forgive me.
It's amazing how much effective muscle can be lost as a result of the sort of surgery I had.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqg73znzzeo
If immigration falls significantly, NHS waiting lists drop, the economy is growing and people feel better off, they will be in a strong position.
Until then, they will continue to poll badly. But crucially, they have the levers to pull, they have many years to pull them. I still feel their death is very much exaggerated.
I thought Kemi Badenoch was absolutely right to say that millionaires shouldn't get the winter fuel payment. That is how Labour should have gone about this change originally. Oddly they got the balance just right on the private school changes but not with this.
Their comms continue to be very bad - but all this will be irrelevant if they show delivery. People will accept their many faults if the can make the country a better place. I think they do know that but it's whether they are prepared to actually pull those levers.
Farage isn't facing much scrutiny yet. That will change, his policies will unravel. But people will not care unless Labour has shown they can make positive impact.
My essential view is thus, it's still too early for any of the changes Labour make really to show any positive impact. I never felt they would be able to do that within a year but it's failure of comms to not make that clear.
Otherwise, buckle up for Nigel Farage.
Robust, detailed, exhaustive
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/22/my-plan-to-get-britain-back-on-track-growth-services-border/
I don’t agree with all of it but if we did 3/4 of it we’d be in a much better place
If anything is fantasy politics it is that. It was a fantastically stupid idea which would have destroyed British democracy overnight and probably caused civil disorder
Fuck the Lib Dems. They are the most ridiculous of ALL the parties
A billionaire businessman in Mayfair and a hard-up single mum in Grimsby can both imagine Farage would govern in their interests.
Ultimately, he can't, because there aren't enough diversity officers to fill the gap between their different aspirations. But as long as Farage can be the political equivalent of Schrödinger's Cat, big state and tiny state at once, he will remain popular.
This is where we need way more batteries, and that new 30gwh pumped storage facility in Scotland will help.
Wind 16.45gw, Solar 8.70gw. An all time point record.