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Is this the way for the Tories and Labour to defeat Reform? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    The comedy over the England flag and St George is that we ripped them off from somewhere else.

    Bring back England's true patron saint - St Edmund!

    Was he not shot with arrows by nasty chaps from Denmark?
    Defending this great land against the northmen. Unlike George who was poncing around with dragons in Far Far Away
    George was an immigrant, working illegally (no paperwork) making native fictional beasts extinct.

    Probably chopped down oak trees by Hadrians wall as relaxation.
    Re the Hadrian's wall case, I know that legal matters take time, but surely with the mobile phone evidence, could not the trial have lasted about 10 minutes?
    Sub judice.
    AIUI the Hadrian's Wall case is complicated by the two each blaming the other for cutting it down.
    Have they given a reason for doing it ?

    I wonder if the judge will give them a lecture about ‘values’ like the judge did in the Paddington Bear case.
    Why does anyone run a cut-throat defence? It might just possibly work (although changes to the law on common purpose make it less likely than in the past).

    I attended the public gallery in a murder case many years ago where a gang of youths ran the cut-throat defence having thrown a man they'd robbed off a bridge. All of them admitted robbery but claimed they were appalled the guy was thrown off the bridge. They were all convicted of murder though... incredibly stupidly, they spent most of the time in the dock passing notes to each other and giggling at each other's jokes, thus completely undercutting the "clever" defence - it would've been entirely obvious to the jury that they'd all been in it together. Had they been staring daggers at each other throught proceedings, the ruse may have worked.
    [EDIT: Oh, I thought you meant have they given a reason for running that defence. As Leon says, I think the implication is shits and giggles for the act itself although the prosecution don't need to provide a reason.]
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,786
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    Hey Jude and Let it Be is about it for the Beatles.

    Plus (h/t @Richard_Tyndall) the Prince version of My Guitar Gently Weeps which wasn't the Beatles anyway.

    No idea if Hey Jude and Let it Be are/were either.

    Otherwise they are fine as popsters but nothing special.

    Someone famous – it will come to me at 3am as we await the results – recently said he was disappointed when introduced to the Beatles' oeuvre as it was all derivative rubbish that had been done better by other bands. Only later did the penny drop.
    It’s like reading Rider Haggard, or Edgar Rice Burroughs. They can seem very tropey - until you remember, they invented the tropes.
    Or Tolkien. So many fantasy novels basically set in his world.
    Fantasy is war stories, and sci fi is war stories in space.
    War stories are battles between Good and Evil. Everything is battles between Good and Evil. And love (usually Good).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,988
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    The comedy over the England flag and St George is that we ripped them off from somewhere else.

    Bring back England's true patron saint - St Edmund!

    Was he not shot with arrows by nasty chaps from Denmark?
    Defending this great land against the northmen. Unlike George who was poncing around with dragons in Far Far Away
    George was an immigrant, working illegally (no paperwork) making native fictional beasts extinct.

    Probably chopped down oak trees by Hadrians wall as relaxation.
    Re the Hadrian's wall case, I know that legal matters take time, but surely with the mobile phone evidence, could not the trial have lasted about 10 minutes?
    Sub judice.
    AIUI the Hadrian's Wall case is complicated by the two each blaming the other for cutting it down.
    Have they given a reason for doing it ?

    I wonder if the judge will give them a lecture about ‘values’ like the judge did in the Paddington Bear case.
    Bantz.
    To prove they had "minerals".
    Were ecstatic when it went viral. Stunned when it wasn't all positive.
    Yeah me neither.
    They are Cumbrian.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,402
    Sean_F said:

    Those ward-level projections for Politics UK are very interesting.

    The Conservatives are in the most trouble. They're getting hit by the Lib Dems in posh heartland areas, and by Reform in poorer heartland areas. The Lib Dems have a clear core vote of posh people. Reform are winning working, and lower-middle class people outside Core Cities. Labour have university seats, seats with lots of professional public sector workers, and areas with big BAME populations. It's honestly hard to see what section of the population the Conservatives are now appealing to. The 2019-24 government's approach, of focusing their appeal on retired people who favour high levels of immigration, has killed off their base.

    Labour are also in trouble. Reform are sweeping through their old heartlands (Durham, industrial Northumberland, Doncaster, Burnley, the Lancashire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Staffordshire, ex-mining, industrial areas). That in turn, suggests they'll sweep through South Wales, Greater Manchester, South Yorkshire, next year. Labour are saved by their new heartlands (see above). Reform are simply sweeping up more support than UKIP ever did, and since nothing succeeds like success, they are coming over as a lot more professional.

    IMHO, Reform will take Runcorn fairly easily. People kick the government in by-elections.

    Yes, most Labour voters in Runcorn will probably sit on their hands today.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,001

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    The comedy over the England flag and St George is that we ripped them off from somewhere else.

    Bring back England's true patron saint - St Edmund!

    Was he not shot with arrows by nasty chaps from Denmark?
    Defending this great land against the northmen. Unlike George who was poncing around with dragons in Far Far Away
    George was an immigrant, working illegally (no paperwork) making native fictional beasts extinct.

    Probably chopped down oak trees by Hadrians wall as relaxation.
    Re the Hadrian's wall case, I know that legal matters take time, but surely with the mobile phone evidence, could not the trial have lasted about 10 minutes?
    Sub judice.
    AIUI the Hadrian's Wall case is complicated by the two each blaming the other for cutting it down.
    Have they given a reason for doing it ?

    I wonder if the judge will give them a lecture about ‘values’ like the judge did in the Paddington Bear case.
    Why does anyone run a cut-throat defence? It might just possibly work (although changes to the law on common purpose make it less likely than in the past).

    I attended the public gallery in a murder case many years ago where a gang of youths ran the cut-throat defence having thrown a man they'd robbed off a bridge. All of them admitted robbery but claimed they were appalled the guy was thrown off the bridge. They were all convicted of murder though... incredibly stupidly, they spent most of the time in the dock passing notes to each other and giggling at each other's jokes, thus completely undercutting the "clever" defence - it would've been entirely obvious to the jury that they'd all been in it together. Had they been staring daggers at each other throught proceedings, the ruse may have worked.
    [EDIT: Oh, I thought you meant have they given a reason for running that defence. As Leon says, I think the implication is shits and giggles for the act itself although the prosecution don't need to provide a reason.]
    They've ruined their own lives. Indescribable levels of Stupid. They have completely ruined their lives because they wanted to kill a famous tree for the lolz

    I see that they are trying to hide their faces from all the court photographers. Not surprising
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 941
    Leon said:

    Whether it's been done or not it needs to be done now


    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 29% (+1)
    🔴 Labour: 21% (+1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 19% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (-1)
    🟢 Greens: 11% (-2)

    Changes from 23rd April
    [Find Out Now, 30th April, N=1,990]


    Yes, Find Out Now, blah blah, but wow

    I've always maintained that Reform's breakthrough number is 30. Once they reach 30 a fair few times then they will be entrenched in the voters' minds as THE opposition and the next government, and they might enter a virtuous cycle where increasing credibility leads to even more support. Of course, this might also lead to more scrutiny and they collapse like a bunch of failed neoNazis, but... wow

    We are close to a tipping point. And the Tories under 20!

    Also if major press eg The Sun back them. Think this is quite likely TBH - "Give Nige A Chance"
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,792
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    "Paperback Writer" is a neglected Beatles classic

    The guitar work is absolutely sparkling and kinetic, and the lyrics are brilliantly accurate about... paperback writing

    I do like a lot of the early Beatles work. The simplicity of the tunes and the melodies.

    If I fell is a masterpiece.
    Agree. I'd add And I love her, Here, there and everywhere, and For No One as early masterpieces.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,402
    "@SkyNews

    Hackers have attempted to break into Co-op's systems, forcing the retailer to shut down some of its operations to block the criminals

    Latest ➡️ https://trib.al/fAnxZO1"

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1917563446872137888
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,887
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the PB consensus on who will win the Runcorn by-election? I'm undecided.

    It depends whether Runcornians consider themselves Liverpudlians or not. Having John Lennon Airport in a Faragist constituency would surely be an unbearable shame that few Liverpudlians would find tolerable.
    Having an airport named after John Lennon is a mark of shame, all of its own.
    Why? Liverpool's second most famous son.
    He was, but also a piece of shit.
    Love the art, not the artist. I have a lovely postcard from 1912 Vienna for sale...
    Even for a pop star, John Lennon was objectionable to an extent where it mars my enjoyment of almost anything he's done. See also: Oasis.
    A pity, because objectively, John's slightly acerbic Beatles songwriting is much more to my taste than the much nicer Paul's straightforward melodic stuff.
    That's a myth caused by their contrasting personal brands post the split. The edgy vs soppy Beatles catalogue is evenly split between John and Paul.
    Hm. I've just looked up the list of Beatles songs on Wikipedia, and unhelpfully (but probably accurately) it lists the majority of songs as written by both of them. You're probably right.
    And actually, on reflection, their post-Beatles careers suggests my point is nonsense. "Merry Christmas War is Over" is the most drivelly sanctimonious pap and one of the few Christmas songs guaranteed to make me switch the radio off.
    In my defence, I'm telling you what my Beatles-loving friend told me to try to convince me that actually I do like John Lennon.

    Going back to the airport issue: I lamented at the time Liverpool's decision to name its airport after John Lennon, but at the time I could see why: the other three were still alive, and it's not really on to name an airport after alive people. I had hoped when George Harrison died they would rename it to 'Liverpool Dead Beatles Airport', but alas, no.
    Yes they're all credited jointly but most of the stuff in their mid to late 60s creative pomp was by one or the other.

    I (rather sadly) know which is which for almost all of them so you can ask me for any you're particularly curious about. If I'm around I'll answer straightaway.

    Couple for free off Pepper. Getting Better is Paul, Lucy in the Sky is John.
    Great, I'll take advantage of that. Favourite Beatles songs off the top of my head are:

    I am the Walrus
    Hard Day's Night
    Helter Skelter
    Come Together
    Taxman

    Strikes me that while I admire them, I don't actually like the Beatles that much (of the 6,000-odd songs on my ipod the number by the Beatles is 0) and I'm struggling now to think of other songs I'd be keen to listen to if they came on right now. I'll add:

    Got to get you into my life
    Day Tripper
    Everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey
    Sargeant Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band


    And finally, while they're not much fun, they're clearly works of absolute genius:

    Eleanor Rigby
    A day in the life

    How have I done for Lennon/McCartney split?
    Quick no google as promised.

    JJPJGPJJPPP

    That's in the order raised (11 songs)

    I cite the lead writer - sometimes (eg day in life) the other chips in.
    Helter Skelter, the track that inspired the Manson Family.
    Race war etc. Although Paul didn't mean that, I'm sure.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,724
    algarkirk said:

    The comedy over the England flag and St George is that we ripped them off from somewhere else.

    Bring back England's true patron saint - St Edmund!

    Was he not shot with arrows by nasty chaps from Denmark?
    Defending this great land against the northmen. Unlike George who was poncing around with dragons in Far Far Away
    George was an immigrant, working illegally (no paperwork) making native fictional beasts extinct.

    Probably chopped down oak trees by Hadrians wall as relaxation.
    Re the Hadrian's wall case, I know that legal matters take time, but surely with the mobile phone evidence, could not the trial have lasted about 10 minutes?
    Years ago I visited an antique courtroom in Cornwall that featured a hook in the ceiling from which convicts were strung up immediately after sentence was passed. Seems about right in this case.
    Still sub judice.
    Genuine question - how does sub judice work? I get my news from the BBC - they have shown the video (allegedly) from one of the accused's phones and indicated that the phone was geo located as was their vehicle. That can surely be discussed? Or is it verbotten to suggest on PB that they might be guilty as sin?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,316
    DARTS SCANDAL Former World Darts semi-finalist, 54, handed ELEVEN-YEAR ban after being found guilty of fixing twelve matches
    ...
    Jenkins had denied match-fixing but admitted placing 88 bets on matches between March 2022 and May 2023.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/34725890/darts-andy-jenkins-11-year-ban-match-fixing/

    How many of Rishi's CCHQ chums will be banned for 11 years?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,988
    Leon said:

    Whether it's been done or not it needs to be done now


    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 29% (+1)
    🔴 Labour: 21% (+1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 19% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (-1)
    🟢 Greens: 11% (-2)

    Changes from 23rd April
    [Find Out Now, 30th April, N=1,990]


    Yes, Find Out Now, blah blah, but wow

    I've always maintained that Reform's breakthrough number is 30. Once they reach 30 a fair few times then they will be entrenched in the voters' minds as THE opposition and the next government, and they might enter a virtuous cycle where increasing credibility leads to even more support. Of course, this might also lead to more scrutiny and they collapse like a bunch of failed neoNazis, but... wow

    We are close to a tipping point. And the Tories under 20!

    That's a majority of 48.
    That also has the Tories fifth on 39 seats.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,402
    Leon said:

    Whether it's been done or not it needs to be done now


    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 29% (+1)
    🔴 Labour: 21% (+1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 19% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (-1)
    🟢 Greens: 11% (-2)

    Changes from 23rd April
    [Find Out Now, 30th April, N=1,990]


    Yes, Find Out Now, blah blah, but wow

    I've always maintained that Reform's breakthrough number is 30. Once they reach 30 a fair few times then they will be entrenched in the voters' minds as THE opposition and the next government, and they might enter a virtuous cycle where increasing credibility leads to even more support. Of course, this might also lead to more scrutiny and they collapse like a bunch of failed neoNazis, but... wow

    We are close to a tipping point. And the Tories under 20!

    A lot of people discount this pollster because it was apparently set up by Matthew Goodwin.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,386
    Hitler shot himself 80 years ago yesterday. Happy Dead Hitler day to those who celebrate. 😀
  • (3/5)

    London might be the greatest city in the world when the sun comes out.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,887
    Leon said:

    "Paperback Writer" is a neglected Beatles classic

    The guitar work is absolutely sparkling and kinetic, and the lyrics are brilliantly accurate about... paperback writing

    Paul.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,757
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    The comedy over the England flag and St George is that we ripped them off from somewhere else.

    Bring back England's true patron saint - St Edmund!

    Was he not shot with arrows by nasty chaps from Denmark?
    Defending this great land against the northmen. Unlike George who was poncing around with dragons in Far Far Away
    George was an immigrant, working illegally (no paperwork) making native fictional beasts extinct.

    Probably chopped down oak trees by Hadrians wall as relaxation.
    Re the Hadrian's wall case, I know that legal matters take time, but surely with the mobile phone evidence, could not the trial have lasted about 10 minutes?
    Sub judice.
    AIUI the Hadrian's Wall case is complicated by the two each blaming the other for cutting it down.
    Have they given a reason for doing it ?

    I wonder if the judge will give them a lecture about ‘values’ like the judge did in the Paddington Bear case.
    Shits and gigs

    That's their reason. They did it "for a laugh"

    A deterrent sentence is needed. I suggest tasering them every day for two years
    The fate of Prometheus beckons.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,307
    viewcode said:

    Hitler shot himself 80 years ago yesterday. Happy Dead Hitler day to those who celebrate. 😀

    Congrats to Hitler for killing Hitler.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,001
    edited 12:53PM
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Whether it's been done or not it needs to be done now


    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 29% (+1)
    🔴 Labour: 21% (+1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 19% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (-1)
    🟢 Greens: 11% (-2)

    Changes from 23rd April
    [Find Out Now, 30th April, N=1,990]


    Yes, Find Out Now, blah blah, but wow

    I've always maintained that Reform's breakthrough number is 30. Once they reach 30 a fair few times then they will be entrenched in the voters' minds as THE opposition and the next government, and they might enter a virtuous cycle where increasing credibility leads to even more support. Of course, this might also lead to more scrutiny and they collapse like a bunch of failed neoNazis, but... wow

    We are close to a tipping point. And the Tories under 20!

    A lot of people discount this pollster because it was apparently set up by Matthew Goodwin.
    Yes, and they regularly show Reform with the best numbers. But, IIRC, they have also been proven accurate on occasion in the past, and they are a member of BPC

    They may be detecting a trend earlier and better than other pollsters. And all pollsters now regularly show Reform in the lead

    This poll must be terrifying for both Labour AND the Tories. Extinction events for both of them. Good
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,307
    edited 12:57PM

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    The comedy over the England flag and St George is that we ripped them off from somewhere else.

    Bring back England's true patron saint - St Edmund!

    Was he not shot with arrows by nasty chaps from Denmark?
    Defending this great land against the northmen. Unlike George who was poncing around with dragons in Far Far Away
    George was an immigrant, working illegally (no paperwork) making native fictional beasts extinct.

    Probably chopped down oak trees by Hadrians wall as relaxation.
    Re the Hadrian's wall case, I know that legal matters take time, but surely with the mobile phone evidence, could not the trial have lasted about 10 minutes?
    Sub judice.
    AIUI the Hadrian's Wall case is complicated by the two each blaming the other for cutting it down.
    Have they given a reason for doing it ?

    I wonder if the judge will give them a lecture about ‘values’ like the judge did in the Paddington Bear case.
    Why does anyone run a cut-throat defence? It might just possibly work (although changes to the law on common purpose make it less likely than in the past).

    I attended the public gallery in a murder case many years ago where a gang of youths ran the cut-throat defence having thrown a man they'd robbed off a bridge. All of them admitted robbery but claimed they were appalled the guy was thrown off the bridge. They were all convicted of murder though... incredibly stupidly, they spent most of the time in the dock passing notes to each other and giggling at each other's jokes, thus completely undercutting the "clever" defence - it would've been entirely obvious to the jury that they'd all been in it together. Had they been staring daggers at each other throught proceedings, the ruse may have worked.
    Hungerford Bridge murder?

    The skateboard memorial is a curious and touching piece of London history
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,001
    edited 12:55PM
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    The comedy over the England flag and St George is that we ripped them off from somewhere else.

    Bring back England's true patron saint - St Edmund!

    Was he not shot with arrows by nasty chaps from Denmark?
    Defending this great land against the northmen. Unlike George who was poncing around with dragons in Far Far Away
    George was an immigrant, working illegally (no paperwork) making native fictional beasts extinct.

    Probably chopped down oak trees by Hadrians wall as relaxation.
    Re the Hadrian's wall case, I know that legal matters take time, but surely with the mobile phone evidence, could not the trial have lasted about 10 minutes?
    Sub judice.
    AIUI the Hadrian's Wall case is complicated by the two each blaming the other for cutting it down.
    Have they given a reason for doing it ?

    I wonder if the judge will give them a lecture about ‘values’ like the judge did in the Paddington Bear case.
    Shits and gigs

    That's their reason. They did it "for a laugh"

    A deterrent sentence is needed. I suggest tasering them every day for two years
    The fate of Prometheus beckons.
    They will be known for all of time as the "two cretins that chopped down the nation's favourite tree, for no reason at all"

    They should probably put them on suicide watch. I feel sorry for their innocent families, esp children
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,197

    (3/5)

    London might be the greatest city in the world when the sun comes out.

    You’ve clearly never been on the Tube
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,316
    Andy_JS said:

    "@SkyNews

    Hackers have attempted to break into Co-op's systems, forcing the retailer to shut down some of its operations to block the criminals

    Latest ➡️ https://trib.al/fAnxZO1"

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1917563446872137888

    The Co-op has done a better job than Marks & Spencer then who still have not fully recovered from their ransomware attack. Not to mention that American chap bombing the Houthis. Lucky Elon chainsawed CISA then.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,887
    edited 12:58PM
    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the PB consensus on who will win the Runcorn by-election? I'm undecided.

    It depends whether Runcornians consider themselves Liverpudlians or not. Having John Lennon Airport in a Faragist constituency would surely be an unbearable shame that few Liverpudlians would find tolerable.
    Having an airport named after John Lennon is a mark of shame, all of its own.
    Why? Liverpool's second most famous son.
    He was, but also a piece of shit.
    Love the art, not the artist. I have a lovely postcard from 1912 Vienna for sale...
    Even for a pop star, John Lennon was objectionable to an extent where it mars my enjoyment of almost anything he's done. See also: Oasis.
    A pity, because objectively, John's slightly acerbic Beatles songwriting is much more to my taste than the much nicer Paul's straightforward melodic stuff.
    That's a myth caused by their contrasting personal brands post the split. The edgy vs soppy Beatles catalogue is evenly split between John and Paul.
    Hm. I've just looked up the list of Beatles songs on Wikipedia, and unhelpfully (but probably accurately) it lists the majority of songs as written by both of them. You're probably right.
    And actually, on reflection, their post-Beatles careers suggests my point is nonsense. "Merry Christmas War is Over" is the most drivelly sanctimonious pap and one of the few Christmas songs guaranteed to make me switch the radio off.
    In my defence, I'm telling you what my Beatles-loving friend told me to try to convince me that actually I do like John Lennon.

    Going back to the airport issue: I lamented at the time Liverpool's decision to name its airport after John Lennon, but at the time I could see why: the other three were still alive, and it's not really on to name an airport after alive people. I had hoped when George Harrison died they would rename it to 'Liverpool Dead Beatles Airport', but alas, no.
    Yes they're all credited jointly but most of the stuff in their mid to late 60s creative pomp was by one or the other.

    I (rather sadly) know which is which for almost all of them so you can ask me for any you're particularly curious about. If I'm around I'll answer straightaway.

    Couple for free off Pepper. Getting Better is Paul, Lucy in the Sky is John.
    Great, I'll take advantage of that. Favourite Beatles songs off the top of my head are:

    I am the Walrus
    Hard Day's Night
    Helter Skelter
    Come Together
    Taxman

    Strikes me that while I admire them, I don't actually like the Beatles that much (of the 6,000-odd songs on my ipod the number by the Beatles is 0) and I'm struggling now to think of other songs I'd be keen to listen to if they came on right now. I'll add:

    Got to get you into my life
    Day Tripper
    Everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey
    Sargeant Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band


    And finally, while they're not much fun, they're clearly works of absolute genius:

    Eleanor Rigby
    A day in the life

    How have I done for Lennon/McCartney split?
    A Day in the Life is unique.
    It's actually 2 songs, one Lennon, one McCartney.
    That's right. They blended the two.

    In fact on further thought, I gave it to Paul as the lead but perhaps it'd be fairer to give it to John.

    Paul's "woke up, got out of bed, dragged a comb ..." is more the cameo to the "read the news today, oh boy" overall structure and mood which is John's.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,831
    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    What on earth is going on with 10cc's Dreadlock Holiday.

    How is it that this song hasn't been cancelled. Or the band. Are 10cc still a thing/alive/playing at the Shepherds Bush Empire next Friday?

    What the hell is going on.

    Edit: bloody hell they are playing Molesey in June as part of their UK tour.

    It's just one of the classic four members (Graham Gouldman).
    Trigger's broom/Ship of Theseus/10cc

    (And just about every other band of yesteryear touring today - and as people will know, because I mention it regularly, there is barely a band of yesteryear not touring today.)
    Oh, absolutely. I'm a big Yes fan. The band today has no original members and just one classic member, and I go see every tour.
    Owner of a Lonely Heart is, not only, a great track but has a superb music video.

    I really liked Jon Anderson’s work with Vangelis too.
    The "Owner of a Lonely Heart" video is sort of the plot of "The Matrix". The video would be less confusing if the keyboard player hadn't left. The song was recorded with one keyboard player (Tony Kaye). Kaye left/got dumped. The band hired Eddie Jobson. Jobson was in the band long enough for the filming of the video... and was then out, with Kaye returning. So, in the portions of the video were you see the band performing, you will notice you rarely see the keyboard player. But the video also features 5 animal avatars, one for each band member, but had to be edited with Jobson going, which adversely affects the sense of the video's story, I suggest.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,786
    Leon said:

    "Paperback Writer" is a neglected Beatles classic

    The guitar work is absolutely sparkling and kinetic, and the lyrics are brilliantly accurate about... paperback writing

    You're the expert, is that like straight-to-video film making.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,757

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    "Paperback Writer" is a neglected Beatles classic

    The guitar work is absolutely sparkling and kinetic, and the lyrics are brilliantly accurate about... paperback writing

    I do like a lot of the early Beatles work. The simplicity of the tunes and the melodies.

    If I fell is a masterpiece.
    Agree. I'd add And I love her, Here, there and everywhere, and For No One as early masterpieces.
    Can’t fault your choice there. All three of those are magnificent tracks. Here, there and everywhere probably my preference.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,185
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Whether it's been done or not it needs to be done now


    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 29% (+1)
    🔴 Labour: 21% (+1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 19% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (-1)
    🟢 Greens: 11% (-2)

    Changes from 23rd April
    [Find Out Now, 30th April, N=1,990]


    Yes, Find Out Now, blah blah, but wow

    I've always maintained that Reform's breakthrough number is 30. Once they reach 30 a fair few times then they will be entrenched in the voters' minds as THE opposition and the next government, and they might enter a virtuous cycle where increasing credibility leads to even more support. Of course, this might also lead to more scrutiny and they collapse like a bunch of failed neoNazis, but... wow

    We are close to a tipping point. And the Tories under 20!

    A lot of people discount this pollster because it was apparently set up by Matthew Goodwin.
    They don’t seem to publish their weightings and conduct the fieldwork over just one day which isn’t great.

    I don’t think there’s any dispute that Reform are leading nationally but the size of the lead looks a bit dubious .
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,724
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    The comedy over the England flag and St George is that we ripped them off from somewhere else.

    Bring back England's true patron saint - St Edmund!

    Was he not shot with arrows by nasty chaps from Denmark?
    Defending this great land against the northmen. Unlike George who was poncing around with dragons in Far Far Away
    George was an immigrant, working illegally (no paperwork) making native fictional beasts extinct.

    Probably chopped down oak trees by Hadrians wall as relaxation.
    Re the Hadrian's wall case, I know that legal matters take time, but surely with the mobile phone evidence, could not the trial have lasted about 10 minutes?
    Sub judice.
    AIUI the Hadrian's Wall case is complicated by the two each blaming the other for cutting it down.
    Have they given a reason for doing it ?

    I wonder if the judge will give them a lecture about ‘values’ like the judge did in the Paddington Bear case.
    I thought Paddington was given a pardon?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,364
    Corbynite Aaron Bastani seems to be quite a fan of Reform

    Really useful, high information interview with Farage on Sky. Can’t imagine this with Laura K on the BBC.

    Refreshing to hear straight questions, and answers, as opposed to hectoring and jousting.

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1917696577210102150?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Farage calling Runcorn, and maybe 3 mayoralties, for Reform. No expectation management here!

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1917698057082229248?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,887
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    "Paperback Writer" is a neglected Beatles classic

    The guitar work is absolutely sparkling and kinetic, and the lyrics are brilliantly accurate about... paperback writing

    It's one of the very few of theirs I like.
    Along with the frankly nonsensical Back in the USSR.
    Paul.

    Bit of a theme here.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,757

    DARTS SCANDAL Former World Darts semi-finalist, 54, handed ELEVEN-YEAR ban after being found guilty of fixing twelve matches
    ...
    Jenkins had denied match-fixing but admitted placing 88 bets on matches between March 2022 and May 2023.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/34725890/darts-andy-jenkins-11-year-ban-match-fixing/

    How many of Rishi's CCHQ chums will be banned for 11 years?

    They bet on the date of the election.
    They did not fix the result of the election.
    They are not governed by the DRA
    If the DRA banned them for 11 years I doubt they’d be bothered.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,402

    Andy_JS said:

    "@SkyNews

    Hackers have attempted to break into Co-op's systems, forcing the retailer to shut down some of its operations to block the criminals

    Latest ➡️ https://trib.al/fAnxZO1"

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1917563446872137888

    The Co-op has done a better job than Marks & Spencer then who still have not fully recovered from their ransomware attack. Not to mention that American chap bombing the Houthis. Lucky Elon chainsawed CISA then.
    It's almost as if nothing was learnt from the 1983 movie War Games where teenagers hack into US defense systems. They've only had 40 years to do something about it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,724

    viewcode said:

    Hitler shot himself 80 years ago yesterday. Happy Dead Hitler day to those who celebrate. 😀

    Congrats to Hitler for killing Hitler.
    Later inspiring JFK to shoot JFK in Dallas
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,001
    isam said:

    Corbynite Aaron Bastani seems to be quite a fan of Reform

    Really useful, high information interview with Farage on Sky. Can’t imagine this with Laura K on the BBC.

    Refreshing to hear straight questions, and answers, as opposed to hectoring and jousting.

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1917696577210102150?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Farage calling Runcorn, and maybe 3 mayoralties, for Reform. No expectation management here!

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1917698057082229248?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Bastani is on quite the journey
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,915
    Andy_JS said:

    "@SkyNews

    Hackers have attempted to break into Co-op's systems, forcing the retailer to shut down some of its operations to block the criminals

    Latest ➡️ https://trib.al/fAnxZO1"

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1917563446872137888

    In my local Co-op nobody would notice the difference.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,757
    edited 1:06PM

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    What on earth is going on with 10cc's Dreadlock Holiday.

    How is it that this song hasn't been cancelled. Or the band. Are 10cc still a thing/alive/playing at the Shepherds Bush Empire next Friday?

    What the hell is going on.

    Edit: bloody hell they are playing Molesey in June as part of their UK tour.

    It's just one of the classic four members (Graham Gouldman).
    Trigger's broom/Ship of Theseus/10cc

    (And just about every other band of yesteryear touring today - and as people will know, because I mention it regularly, there is barely a band of yesteryear not touring today.)
    Oh, absolutely. I'm a big Yes fan. The band today has no original members and just one classic member, and I go see every tour.
    Owner of a Lonely Heart is, not only, a great track but has a superb music video.

    I really liked Jon Anderson’s work with Vangelis too.
    The "Owner of a Lonely Heart" video is sort of the plot of "The Matrix". The video would be less confusing if the keyboard player hadn't left. The song was recorded with one keyboard player (Tony Kaye). Kaye left/got dumped. The band hired Eddie Jobson. Jobson was in the band long enough for the filming of the video... and was then out, with Kaye returning. So, in the portions of the video were you see the band performing, you will notice you rarely see the keyboard player. But the video also features 5 animal avatars, one for each band member, but had to be edited with Jobson going, which adversely affects the sense of the video's story, I suggest.
    I’ve just rewatched the video as I always assumed it a four piece. Lead and Bass guitar, drums and Jon singing. And at 21 seconds there’s a guy in a blue top I’ve not seen before !!

    Must be him.

    Watched the video loads of times but always assumed 4 animal avatars. Probably due to the roof scene. But watching again there are five people. Always thought it was 4. But as JNT said, the memory cheats.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,756
    If Reform really does look like it will break through, will we see lots of former Tories (and some Labour) stream in as candidates in search of a ministerial post?

    I think that’s the point where the Tories vanish isn’t it?
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,757

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    The comedy over the England flag and St George is that we ripped them off from somewhere else.

    Bring back England's true patron saint - St Edmund!

    Was he not shot with arrows by nasty chaps from Denmark?
    Defending this great land against the northmen. Unlike George who was poncing around with dragons in Far Far Away
    George was an immigrant, working illegally (no paperwork) making native fictional beasts extinct.

    Probably chopped down oak trees by Hadrians wall as relaxation.
    Re the Hadrian's wall case, I know that legal matters take time, but surely with the mobile phone evidence, could not the trial have lasted about 10 minutes?
    Sub judice.
    AIUI the Hadrian's Wall case is complicated by the two each blaming the other for cutting it down.
    Have they given a reason for doing it ?

    I wonder if the judge will give them a lecture about ‘values’ like the judge did in the Paddington Bear case.
    I thought Paddington was given a pardon?
    He was.

    It was more the claptrap from the judge.

    https://x.com/paulembery/status/1904521095937417619?s=61
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,367

    viewcode said:

    Hitler shot himself 80 years ago yesterday. Happy Dead Hitler day to those who celebrate. 😀

    Congrats to Hitler for killing Hitler.
    Yes, a bit like our abolition of slavery. Better late than never.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,887
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the PB consensus on who will win the Runcorn by-election? I'm undecided.

    It depends whether Runcornians consider themselves Liverpudlians or not. Having John Lennon Airport in a Faragist constituency would surely be an unbearable shame that few Liverpudlians would find tolerable.
    Having an airport named after John Lennon is a mark of shame, all of its own.
    Why? Liverpool's second most famous son.
    He was, but also a piece of shit.
    Love the art, not the artist. I have a lovely postcard from 1912 Vienna for sale...
    Even for a pop star, John Lennon was objectionable to an extent where it mars my enjoyment of almost anything he's done. See also: Oasis.
    A pity, because objectively, John's slightly acerbic Beatles songwriting is much more to my taste than the much nicer Paul's straightforward melodic stuff.
    That's a myth caused by their contrasting personal brands post the split. The edgy vs soppy Beatles catalogue is evenly split between John and Paul.
    Hm. I've just looked up the list of Beatles songs on Wikipedia, and unhelpfully (but probably accurately) it lists the majority of songs as written by both of them. You're probably right.
    And actually, on reflection, their post-Beatles careers suggests my point is nonsense. "Merry Christmas War is Over" is the most drivelly sanctimonious pap and one of the few Christmas songs guaranteed to make me switch the radio off.
    In my defence, I'm telling you what my Beatles-loving friend told me to try to convince me that actually I do like John Lennon.

    Going back to the airport issue: I lamented at the time Liverpool's decision to name its airport after John Lennon, but at the time I could see why: the other three were still alive, and it's not really on to name an airport after alive people. I had hoped when George Harrison died they would rename it to 'Liverpool Dead Beatles Airport', but alas, no.
    Yes they're all credited jointly but most of the stuff in their mid to late 60s creative pomp was by one or the other.

    I (rather sadly) know which is which for almost all of them so you can ask me for any you're particularly curious about. If I'm around I'll answer straightaway.

    Couple for free off Pepper. Getting Better is Paul, Lucy in the Sky is John.
    Great, I'll take advantage of that. Favourite Beatles songs off the top of my head are:

    I am the Walrus
    Hard Day's Night
    Helter Skelter
    Come Together
    Taxman

    Strikes me that while I admire them, I don't actually like the Beatles that much (of the 6,000-odd songs on my ipod the number by the Beatles is 0) and I'm struggling now to think of other songs I'd be keen to listen to if they came on right now. I'll add:

    Got to get you into my life
    Day Tripper
    Everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey
    Sargeant Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band


    And finally, while they're not much fun, they're clearly works of absolute genius:

    Eleanor Rigby
    A day in the life

    How have I done for Lennon/McCartney split?
    I know what you mean about the Beatles. Something about them is hard to love. I wonder if it is because they are SO famous, so ubiquitous, so admired, the greatest band ever with about 200 songs, it invokes some reflexive aversion?

    eg there is a Beatles museum in.... Almaty, Kazakhstan

    And at the very moment as I sit here I am wearing an "All You Need is Plov" teeshirt, bought in Samarkand

    As for great songs, you forgot

    Let it Be

    and

    Hey Jude

    The latter, with that na-na-na-na coda, is surely one of the most famous passages of music in history

    Nowhere man.

    And personally, she’s leaving home. Just genius.
    John and Paul, respectively.

    That's it. I'm not doing anymore now.

    Sorry for people who've missed the boat.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,414
    biggles said:

    If Reform really does look like it will break through, will we see lots of former Tories (and some Labour) stream in as candidates in search of a ministerial post?

    I think that’s the point where the Tories vanish isn’t it?

    This could be Lembit Öpik's big moment to come in from the cold...
  • (4/5)

    Aaron Bastani like Matthew Goodwin is a grifter. Why can people not see this?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,001

    (4/5)

    Aaron Bastani like Matthew Goodwin is a grifter. Why can people not see this?

    lol. You mean you've suddenly decided you dislike his politics, ergo he's a grifter
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,665

    (4/5)

    Aaron Bastani like Matthew Goodwin is a grifter. Why can people not see this?

    Whatever they see, they might not want to be on the wrong end of a libel case?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,724

    (4/5)

    Aaron Bastani like Matthew Goodwin is a grifter. Why can people not see this?

    Do you want an answer and a discussion? If yes, why stick to this ridiculous numbered post and limit?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,918
    biggles said:

    If Reform really does look like it will break through, will we see lots of former Tories (and some Labour) stream in as candidates in search of a ministerial post?

    I think that’s the point where the Tories vanish isn’t it?

    It will get very nasty between Labour and Reform when it sinks in that Labour have lost the native working class. Labour took them for granted for too long and thought that ranting about the Tories and 'our NHS' was good enough.
  • (5/5)

    I’m predicting Reform gain for the Westminster by-election today. Not that it will mean anything for four years time.

    I’m sticking by my view that in a year things will look very different. I remember saying something similar in 2021 at peak Johnson.

    And with that, fin.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,379

    viewcode said:

    Hitler shot himself 80 years ago yesterday. Happy Dead Hitler day to those who celebrate. 😀

    Congrats to Hitler for killing Hitler.
    Not such a bad guy in the end.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,404
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Corbynite Aaron Bastani seems to be quite a fan of Reform

    Really useful, high information interview with Farage on Sky. Can’t imagine this with Laura K on the BBC.

    Refreshing to hear straight questions, and answers, as opposed to hectoring and jousting.

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1917696577210102150?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Farage calling Runcorn, and maybe 3 mayoralties, for Reform. No expectation management here!

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1917698057082229248?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Bastani is on quite the journey
    Quite the Strasserite.
    Nige probably won’t shoot him if they get out of step, just put him on the candidates list for an Edinburgh constituency.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,665
    edited 1:19PM

    (3/5)

    London might be the greatest city in the world when the sun comes out.

    Just walked through Lincoln's Inn Fields. Many, many hundreds sat on the grass enjoying a 29 degree May Day.

    Does make for a hellish problem. Not initially, as everyone uses the bins.

    Then the crows set about emptying them...

  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,283
    Off any recent topics, but important -- if you think genocide is important: The Washington Post commended the US State Department for declaring that the ongoing Sudan civil war now includes genocide: "On April 15, the country’s brutal civil war entered its third bloody year, with an estimated 150,000 people killed, about 12 million displaced and no settlement in sight.

    The next day, the State Department for the first time characterized the atrocities being committed in Sudan’s western Darfur region as a genocide, citing the systematic killings of men and boys and the sexual violence against women and girls from the Masalit community. The U.S. statement named the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces, or RSF, which has been locked in a battle with the Sudanese armed forces, as the perpetrator of the ethnic cleansing. The Biden administration had earlier also named the RSF as responsible for genocide."
    source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/04/28/us-stop-genocide-sudan/

    The Post suggests some practical diplomatic measures the US can take, to reduce the support nations in the Middle East and Africa are giving to the sides.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,799
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@SkyNews

    Hackers have attempted to break into Co-op's systems, forcing the retailer to shut down some of its operations to block the criminals

    Latest ➡️ https://trib.al/fAnxZO1"

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1917563446872137888

    The Co-op has done a better job than Marks & Spencer then who still have not fully recovered from their ransomware attack. Not to mention that American chap bombing the Houthis. Lucky Elon chainsawed CISA then.
    It's almost as if nothing was learnt from the 1983 movie War Games where teenagers hack into US defense systems. They've only had 40 years to do something about it.
    It’s a lot harder than you may think to keep your systems secure. It only takes a momentary lapse by one person once to give hackers an in and once in they can do an awful lot of harm very quickly
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,665
    edited 1:18PM
    deleted duplicate post (somehow!)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,386

    viewcode said:

    Hitler shot himself 80 years ago yesterday. Happy Dead Hitler day to those who celebrate. 😀

    Congrats to Hitler for killing Hitler.
    Later inspiring JFK to shoot JFK in Dallas
    As depicted in the historical document https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikka_to_Ride
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,724
    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Hitler shot himself 80 years ago yesterday. Happy Dead Hitler day to those who celebrate. 😀

    Congrats to Hitler for killing Hitler.
    Not such a bad guy in the end.
    And never forgot, a vegetarian (so ahead of his time) a non-drinker and non-smoker and he loved dogs and children.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,386
    edited 1:24PM

    (5/5)

    I’m predicting Reform gain for the Westminster by-election today. Not that it will mean anything for four years time.

    I’m sticking by my view that in a year things will look very different. I remember saying something similar in 2021 at peak Johnson.

    And with that, fin.

    Fin
    • (1) pectoral fins (paired),
    • (2) pelvic fins (paired),
    • (3) dorsal fin,
    • (4) adipose fin,
    • (5) anal fin, and
    • (6) caudal (tail) fin.
    Fin
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,635

    Andy_JS said:

    "@SkyNews

    Hackers have attempted to break into Co-op's systems, forcing the retailer to shut down some of its operations to block the criminals

    Latest ➡️ https://trib.al/fAnxZO1"

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1917563446872137888

    In my local Co-op nobody would notice the difference.
    My experience of the Co-op is that they only ever have one item on the shelf when offering a BOGOF and having a shelf full of mincemeat, except in the run up to Christmas. Perhaps their stock control system was hacked 20 years ago and nobody has noticed.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,386
    We are getting a lot of hacker attacks which companies have a hard time shaking off. The British Library attack is still not fully repaired, and this week we've had one on the Co-Op and one on M&S. Are we actually at war here?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,364
    10 great Beatles songs

    Please Please Me
    She Loves You
    And I Love Her
    Help
    You’ve Got to hide your Love away
    In my Life
    Polythene Pam
    I Want You
    Something
    Across the Universe
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,929
    edited 1:30PM
    Sean_F said:

    It's honestly hard to see what section of the population the Conservatives are now appealing to.

    They still seem to be trying to apeal to Reform voters. And they still don't seem to have realised that having a non-white leader is a serious handicap in doing that,
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,831
    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    What on earth is going on with 10cc's Dreadlock Holiday.

    How is it that this song hasn't been cancelled. Or the band. Are 10cc still a thing/alive/playing at the Shepherds Bush Empire next Friday?

    What the hell is going on.

    Edit: bloody hell they are playing Molesey in June as part of their UK tour.

    It's just one of the classic four members (Graham Gouldman).
    Trigger's broom/Ship of Theseus/10cc

    (And just about every other band of yesteryear touring today - and as people will know, because I mention it regularly, there is barely a band of yesteryear not touring today.)
    Oh, absolutely. I'm a big Yes fan. The band today has no original members and just one classic member, and I go see every tour.
    But does being an original lend legitimacy. I mean the band Marmalade have no original members now, Graham Knight having retired. However Sandy Newman has been with them since the mid seventies. He has been a member far longer than the likes of Dean Ford and Junior Campbell.

    At the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame (Don Henley reckons it should be achievement not fame, he has a point) look at Blondies acceptance. Debbie Harry was steadfastly against any of the classic line up no longer members playing
    People often talk in terms of original members, but, I agree, being an original member doesn't really matter. Canadian rock band Rush had a different bass player for their first ever concert, before he was replaced. So the bass player everyone knows about isn't technically original, but he's original enough. Steve Howe in Yes didn't join until touring in support of the second album, but he was there when the band made it big and made the albums they're famous for. Lots of bands had original members who aren't as well known as the people who were there when they found success.

    But then you've got a band like The Drifters. No-one in the current band touring as The Drifters was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs. No-one in the current band has worked with anyone who was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs. No-one in the current band has even worked with anyone who has worked with anyone who was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,042

    algarkirk said:

    The comedy over the England flag and St George is that we ripped them off from somewhere else.

    Bring back England's true patron saint - St Edmund!

    Was he not shot with arrows by nasty chaps from Denmark?
    Defending this great land against the northmen. Unlike George who was poncing around with dragons in Far Far Away
    George was an immigrant, working illegally (no paperwork) making native fictional beasts extinct.

    Probably chopped down oak trees by Hadrians wall as relaxation.
    Re the Hadrian's wall case, I know that legal matters take time, but surely with the mobile phone evidence, could not the trial have lasted about 10 minutes?
    Years ago I visited an antique courtroom in Cornwall that featured a hook in the ceiling from which convicts were strung up immediately after sentence was passed. Seems about right in this case.
    Still sub judice.
    Genuine question - how does sub judice work? I get my news from the BBC - they have shown the video (allegedly) from one of the accused's phones and indicated that the phone was geo located as was their vehicle. That can surely be discussed? Or is it verbotten to suggest on PB that they might be guilty as sin?
    During a trial a UK publication (and PB can be read by everyone on the planet instantly, so its a publication) can only report on what is occurring in court, and must do so fairly. You can't comment or offer opinions or do anything prejudicial, like discussing likely outcomes. The reason is simple: if a member of the jury saw it might it affect their thought processes.

    Trials have been halted before because of press comment.

    Next: just because something is in evidence, that does not make it a fact. Only the jury are allowed to decide what is a fact. No-one else can during a trial.

    Next: what the barristers say or ask is not evidence (nor fact) and cannot be reported as such. In particular the prosecutor's opening speech - often the most reported bit of a trial - is neither evidence nor fact. It is a set of assertions about what he hopes to adduce in evidence.

    You absolutely can't discuss possible guilt or innocence in any publication during a trial.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,413

    Leon said:

    Whether it's been done or not it needs to be done now


    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 29% (+1)
    🔴 Labour: 21% (+1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 19% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (-1)
    🟢 Greens: 11% (-2)

    Changes from 23rd April
    [Find Out Now, 30th April, N=1,990]


    Yes, Find Out Now, blah blah, but wow

    I've always maintained that Reform's breakthrough number is 30. Once they reach 30 a fair few times then they will be entrenched in the voters' minds as THE opposition and the next government, and they might enter a virtuous cycle where increasing credibility leads to even more support. Of course, this might also lead to more scrutiny and they collapse like a bunch of failed neoNazis, but... wow

    We are close to a tipping point. And the Tories under 20!

    Also if major press eg The Sun back them. Think this is quite likely TBH - "Give Nige A Chance"
    Give the country to Trump...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,262

    Off any recent topics, but important -- if you think genocide is important: The Washington Post commended the US State Department for declaring that the ongoing Sudan civil war now includes genocide: "On April 15, the country’s brutal civil war entered its third bloody year, with an estimated 150,000 people killed, about 12 million displaced and no settlement in sight.

    The next day, the State Department for the first time characterized the atrocities being committed in Sudan’s western Darfur region as a genocide, citing the systematic killings of men and boys and the sexual violence against women and girls from the Masalit community. The U.S. statement named the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces, or RSF, which has been locked in a battle with the Sudanese armed forces, as the perpetrator of the ethnic cleansing. The Biden administration had earlier also named the RSF as responsible for genocide."
    source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/04/28/us-stop-genocide-sudan/

    The Post suggests some practical diplomatic measures the US can take, to reduce the support nations in the Middle East and Africa are giving to the sides.

    Like the civil war in Myanmar, it's one of those ignored conflicts.
  • oniscoidoniscoid Posts: 26

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Hitler shot himself 80 years ago yesterday. Happy Dead Hitler day to those who celebrate. 😀

    Congrats to Hitler for killing Hitler.
    Not such a bad guy in the end.
    And never forgot, a vegetarian (so ahead of his time) a non-drinker and non-smoker and he loved dogs and children.
    i believe vegetarianism was popular in 1930's Europe, part of that era's health and fitness trend
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,831
    nico67 said:

    pm215 said:

    nico67 said:

    The mayoralty races used to be by ranked choice . The Tories changed that as they thought it would be easier for them to win . Without the change to FPTP Reform wouldn’t be favourites in several races .

    Do Labour have any plans to change things back, or do they reckon the mayors just not important enough to bother for, or do they (not unreasonably) want the parliamentary time and attention for more significant work?
    Perhaps it might highlight the fact that FPTP is a poor way of electing people .

    I’d back some form of PR even though it would give some more extreme parties more representation .
    To be pedantic, as is required by our local bylaws, we're not talking about proportionality here. When electing a single individual as mayor, there's no way the result can be proportional. What we're talking about is ordinality, the ability to express multiple preferences.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,626
    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Hitler shot himself 80 years ago yesterday. Happy Dead Hitler day to those who celebrate. 😀

    Congrats to Hitler for killing Hitler.
    Not such a bad guy in the end.
    Killed his wife, though, didn’t he? Or did she kill herself?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,724
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    The comedy over the England flag and St George is that we ripped them off from somewhere else.

    Bring back England's true patron saint - St Edmund!

    Was he not shot with arrows by nasty chaps from Denmark?
    Defending this great land against the northmen. Unlike George who was poncing around with dragons in Far Far Away
    George was an immigrant, working illegally (no paperwork) making native fictional beasts extinct.

    Probably chopped down oak trees by Hadrians wall as relaxation.
    Re the Hadrian's wall case, I know that legal matters take time, but surely with the mobile phone evidence, could not the trial have lasted about 10 minutes?
    Years ago I visited an antique courtroom in Cornwall that featured a hook in the ceiling from which convicts were strung up immediately after sentence was passed. Seems about right in this case.
    Still sub judice.
    Genuine question - how does sub judice work? I get my news from the BBC - they have shown the video (allegedly) from one of the accused's phones and indicated that the phone was geo located as was their vehicle. That can surely be discussed? Or is it verbotten to suggest on PB that they might be guilty as sin?
    During a trial a UK publication (and PB can be read by everyone on the planet instantly, so its a publication) can only report on what is occurring in court, and must do so fairly. You can't comment or offer opinions or do anything prejudicial, like discussing likely outcomes. The reason is simple: if a member of the jury saw it might it affect their thought processes.

    Trials have been halted before because of press comment.

    Next: just because something is in evidence, that does not make it a fact. Only the jury are allowed to decide what is a fact. No-one else can during a trial.

    Next: what the barristers say or ask is not evidence (nor fact) and cannot be reported as such. In particular the prosecutor's opening speech - often the most reported bit of a trial - is neither evidence nor fact. It is a set of assertions about what he hopes to adduce in evidence.

    You absolutely can't discuss possible guilt or innocence in any publication during a trial.
    Thanks for this - its very clear.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,575
    Beatles: as a simple type, I love the little phase of play as they pivot fully from a yeah, yeah, yeah band towards Sgt Pepper - essentially the albums Help, Rubber Soul and Revolver, and particularly some of the (mildly) bitter and twisted stuff on Help.

    You've Got to Hide Your Love Away

    Still simple but spot on.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,187
    edited 1:36PM

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    nico67 said:

    The problem in this country is people being sold the idea that you can get better public services and not have to pay more for them . The UK still has low taxes compared to most of Europe. So Reform are allegedly going to find loads of cuts to make and yet somehow local services won’t suffer .

    Councils have suffered because of governments slashing of central funding , an aging population, more demands for social care etc mean it’s only going to get worse .


    We aren't going to get wealthier as a country, or make any progress, by taxing working people ever more to pay for retired/non working people.
    A single sentence summary of our most fundamental problems. And hanging on for the blessed inheritance is not the answer either.
    Reform aren’t going to fix that
    Oh of course not. They are a bunch of boorish prats who con the gullible. But who
    is? Who will have the courage to rebalance tax from earned income to largely untaxed capital? Whoever does has my vote for one.
    Nobody. Too many vested interests. There has to be a critical organised mass of “have nots” but until then you’ll have the likes of @HYUFD making it their mission to preserve the value of the estates of the asset rich
    Well Labour have hammered farmers and family businesses with new IHT, who may on paper be asset rich but most of that belongs to their industry, they are not income wise always high earners.

    Labour have also hammered pensioners with winter fuel allowance cuts and employers with National Insurance rises. They have hit students with tuition fees rises and the disabled with benefit cuts. They also want to build all over much of the greenbelt.

    Indeed arguably the only people Labour haven't hammered so far are the sacred 'working people' but only if they don't own the enterprise they work in of course and if they are GPs or train drivers they have had pots of extra gold from Reeves.

    Wealthy home and share owners may have avoided a wealth tax for now but if re elected I suspected Labour will go for that too soon
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,386
    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    What on earth is going on with 10cc's Dreadlock Holiday.

    How is it that this song hasn't been cancelled. Or the band. Are 10cc still a thing/alive/playing at the Shepherds Bush Empire next Friday?

    What the hell is going on.

    Edit: bloody hell they are playing Molesey in June as part of their UK tour.

    It's just one of the classic four members (Graham Gouldman).
    Trigger's broom/Ship of Theseus/10cc

    (And just about every other band of yesteryear touring today - and as people will know, because I mention it regularly, there is barely a band of yesteryear not touring today.)
    Oh, absolutely. I'm a big Yes fan. The band today has no original members and just one classic member, and I go see every tour.
    Owner of a Lonely Heart is, not only, a great track but has a superb music video.

    I really liked Jon Anderson’s work with Vangelis too.
    "State of Independence" is one of my favourite songs, although I prefer Donna Summer's "New Radio Millennium Mix" cover. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs3D1PpcJA8

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,635

    biggles said:

    If Reform really does look like it will break through, will we see lots of former Tories (and some Labour) stream in as candidates in search of a ministerial post?

    I think that’s the point where the Tories vanish isn’t it?

    It will get very nasty between Labour and Reform when it sinks in that Labour have lost the native working class. Labour took them for granted for too long and thought that ranting about the Tories and 'our NHS' was good enough.
    Scottish Labour still haven’t accepted losing their working class vote to the SNP in 2007. They continually rant about the SNP and the NHS to little effect. They only temporarily recovered their vote when the SNP went ultra woke. They will have to wait a long time for Reform to go ultra woke.

    I believe that Reform are a greater long term threat to Labour than to the Tories. The Tories have a history of eventually adapting to changed circumstances. Labour, not so much, with the exception of Blair.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,887
    isam said:

    10 great Beatles songs

    Please Please Me
    She Loves You
    And I Love Her
    Help
    You’ve Got to hide your Love away
    In my Life
    Polythene Pam
    I Want You
    Something
    Across the Universe

    Quite a John skew there.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,197
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    nico67 said:

    The problem in this country is people being sold the idea that you can get better public services and not have to pay more for them . The UK still has low taxes compared to most of Europe. So Reform are allegedly going to find loads of cuts to make and yet somehow local services won’t suffer .

    Councils have suffered because of governments slashing of central funding , an aging population, more demands for social care etc mean it’s only going to get worse .


    We aren't going to get wealthier as a country, or make any progress, by taxing working people ever more to pay for retired/non working people.
    A single sentence summary of our most fundamental problems. And hanging on for the blessed inheritance is not the answer either.
    Reform aren’t going to fix that
    Oh of course not. They are a bunch of boorish prats who con the gullible. But who
    is? Who will have the courage to rebalance tax from earned income to largely untaxed capital? Whoever does has my vote for one.
    Nobody. Too many vested interests. There has to be a critical organised mass of “have nots” but until then you’ll have the likes of @HYUFD making it their mission to preserve the value of the estates of the asset rich
    Well Labour have hammered farmers and family businesses with new IHT, who may on paper be asset rich but most of that belongs to their industry, they are not income wise always high earners.

    Labour have also hammered pensioners with winter fuel allowance cuts and employers with National Insurance rises. They have hit students with tuition fees rises and the disabled with benefit cuts. They also want to build all over much of the greenbelt.

    Indeed arguably the only people Labour haven't hammered so far are the sacred 'working people' but only if they don't own the enterprise they work in of course and if they are GPs or train drivers they have had pots of extra gold from Reeves.

    Wealthy home and share owners may have avoided a wealth tax for now but if re elected I suspected Labour will go for that too soon
    HAMMERED
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,187
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@SkyNews

    Hackers have attempted to break into Co-op's systems, forcing the retailer to shut down some of its operations to block the criminals

    Latest ➡️ https://trib.al/fAnxZO1"

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1917563446872137888

    The Co-op has done a better job than Marks & Spencer then who still have not fully recovered from their ransomware attack. Not to mention that American chap bombing the Houthis. Lucky Elon chainsawed CISA then.
    It's almost as if nothing was learnt from the 1983 movie War Games where teenagers hack into US defense systems. They've only had 40 years to do something about it.
    It’s a lot harder than you may think to keep your systems secure. It only takes a momentary lapse by one person once to give hackers an in and once in they can do an awful lot of harm very quickly
    Yes phishing attackers are getting more savvy, hence ever more complex firewalls and training needed to keep them out
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,665
    Really never a fan of the Beatles, but if you are going to have a Top 10, it needs to include Penny Lane.

    And The Fool on the Hill.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,635

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    What on earth is going on with 10cc's Dreadlock Holiday.

    How is it that this song hasn't been cancelled. Or the band. Are 10cc still a thing/alive/playing at the Shepherds Bush Empire next Friday?

    What the hell is going on.

    Edit: bloody hell they are playing Molesey in June as part of their UK tour.

    It's just one of the classic four members (Graham Gouldman).
    Trigger's broom/Ship of Theseus/10cc

    (And just about every other band of yesteryear touring today - and as people will know, because I mention it regularly, there is barely a band of yesteryear not touring today.)
    Oh, absolutely. I'm a big Yes fan. The band today has no original members and just one classic member, and I go see every tour.
    But does being an original lend legitimacy. I mean the band Marmalade have no original members now, Graham Knight having retired. However Sandy Newman has been with them since the mid seventies. He has been a member far longer than the likes of Dean Ford and Junior Campbell.

    At the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame (Don Henley reckons it should be achievement not fame, he has a point) look at Blondies acceptance. Debbie Harry was steadfastly against any of the classic line up no longer members playing
    People often talk in terms of original members, but, I agree, being an original member doesn't really matter. Canadian rock band Rush had a different bass player for their first ever concert, before he was replaced. So the bass player everyone knows about isn't technically original, but he's original enough. Steve Howe in Yes didn't join until touring in support of the second album, but he was there when the band made it big and made the albums they're famous for. Lots of bands had original members who aren't as well known as the people who were there when they found success.

    But then you've got a band like The Drifters. No-one in the current band touring as The Drifters was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs. No-one in the current band has worked with anyone who was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs. No-one in the current band has even worked with anyone who has worked with anyone who was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs.
    The Drifters aren’t a band They’re a franchise.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,187

    biggles said:

    If Reform really does look like it will break through, will we see lots of former Tories (and some Labour) stream in as candidates in search of a ministerial post?

    I think that’s the point where the Tories vanish isn’t it?

    It will get very nasty between Labour and Reform when it sinks in that Labour have lost the native working class. Labour took them for granted for too long and thought that ranting about the Tories and 'our NHS' was good enough.
    Indeed, the Labour core vote is now public sector workers, ethnic minorities (especially Muslims) and students (split with the Greens). The white working class having flirted with Boris in 2019 are now largely firmly in the Reform camp
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,724
    BRACE! END TIMES COMING!

    Despite a relatively healthy financial state for my Uni they have just cancelled the water cooler contract, and the water coolers have been removed overnight. No more lovely cold water. On the hottest day of the year, too. I suspect the end is nigh.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,434

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Hitler shot himself 80 years ago yesterday. Happy Dead Hitler day to those who celebrate. 😀

    Congrats to Hitler for killing Hitler.
    Not such a bad guy in the end.
    Killed his wife, though, didn’t he? Or did she kill herself?
    Braun committed suicide (cyanide?); Hitler shot himself.

    Hitler may well have murdered, or had murdered, his half-niece, who may have been pregnant by him, in 1931.

    Incidentally, Russia apparently still has Hitler's jawbone. Getting inspiration from it, I guess...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,187
    biggles said:

    If Reform really does look like it will break through, will we see lots of former Tories (and some Labour) stream in as candidates in search of a ministerial post?

    I think that’s the point where the Tories vanish isn’t it?

    Only if Reform look like getting an overall majority, otherwise Tory Shadow Ministers could still get posts in a Farage and Badenoch coalition government.

    Hard to see many Labour MPs going Reform, as long as Labour remained the main centre left party they will stay red, only if the LDs or Greens overtook Labour on seats might they switch parties
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,386
    "Thunderbolts*" is out, the plot is on Wikipedia, the reason for the asterisk is what we always thought it was, and the post-credits scene is on YouTube. It's impossible to spoil it given how many details have been leaked.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,724

    biggles said:

    If Reform really does look like it will break through, will we see lots of former Tories (and some Labour) stream in as candidates in search of a ministerial post?

    I think that’s the point where the Tories vanish isn’t it?

    It will get very nasty between Labour and Reform when it sinks in that Labour have lost the native working class. Labour took them for granted for too long and thought that ranting about the Tories and 'our NHS' was good enough.
    Scottish Labour still haven’t accepted losing their working class vote to the SNP in 2007. They continually rant about the SNP and the NHS to little effect. They only temporarily recovered their vote when the SNP went ultra woke. They will have to wait a long time for Reform to go ultra woke.

    I believe that Reform are a greater long term threat to Labour than to the Tories. The Tories have a history of eventually adapting to changed circumstances. Labour, not so much, with the exception of Blair.
    Scottish Labour (and Labour in general) took the Scottish vote for granted until suddenly it wasn't there. The same happened in much of the Northern towns and cities - the Tories won loads of places in 2019 that had been unthinkable.

    Of course the Tories have also lost them again, and Labour might think that its all rosy, what with its massive majority of 300 billion+ or whatever it is, but those voters who were disillusioned with Labour and turned Blue and turning Reforming now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,934

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    What on earth is going on with 10cc's Dreadlock Holiday.

    How is it that this song hasn't been cancelled. Or the band. Are 10cc still a thing/alive/playing at the Shepherds Bush Empire next Friday?

    What the hell is going on.

    Edit: bloody hell they are playing Molesey in June as part of their UK tour.

    It's just one of the classic four members (Graham Gouldman).
    Trigger's broom/Ship of Theseus/10cc

    (And just about every other band of yesteryear touring today - and as people will know, because I mention it regularly, there is barely a band of yesteryear not touring today.)
    Oh, absolutely. I'm a big Yes fan. The band today has no original members and just one classic member, and I go see every tour.
    But does being an original lend legitimacy. I mean the band Marmalade have no original members now, Graham Knight having retired. However Sandy Newman has been with them since the mid seventies. He has been a member far longer than the likes of Dean Ford and Junior Campbell.

    At the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame (Don Henley reckons it should be achievement not fame, he has a point) look at Blondies acceptance. Debbie Harry was steadfastly against any of the classic line up no longer members playing
    People often talk in terms of original members, but, I agree, being an original member doesn't really matter. Canadian rock band Rush had a different bass player for their first ever concert, before he was replaced. So the bass player everyone knows about isn't technically original, but he's original enough. Steve Howe in Yes didn't join until touring in support of the second album, but he was there when the band made it big and made the albums they're famous for. Lots of bands had original members who aren't as well known as the people who were there when they found success.

    But then you've got a band like The Drifters. No-one in the current band touring as The Drifters was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs. No-one in the current band has worked with anyone who was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs. No-one in the current band has even worked with anyone who has worked with anyone who was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs.
    Then you've got Fleetwood Mac, whose early history confuses the heck out of everyone.

    One of the things I like about ABBA is that they kept it simple.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,379
    viewcode said:

    "Thunderbolts*" is out, the plot is on Wikipedia, the reason for the asterisk is what we always thought it was, and the post-credits scene is on YouTube. It's impossible to spoil it given how many details have been leaked.

    Go on, give us a hint.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,724

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Hitler shot himself 80 years ago yesterday. Happy Dead Hitler day to those who celebrate. 😀

    Congrats to Hitler for killing Hitler.
    Not such a bad guy in the end.
    Killed his wife, though, didn’t he? Or did she kill herself?
    Braun committed suicide (cyanide?); Hitler shot himself.

    Hitler may well have murdered, or had murdered, his half-niece, who may have been pregnant by him, in 1931.

    Incidentally, Russia apparently still has Hitler's jawbone. Getting inspiration from it, I guess...
    Most historians of the period think this is untrue - Geli Raubal almost certainly committed suicide because Hitler wanted her, but was never going to marry her or have sex with her. He liked to have a pretty air-head around, but was not the marrying kind.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,316
    viewcode said:

    We are getting a lot of hacker attacks which companies have a hard time shaking off. The British Library attack is still not fully repaired, and this week we've had one on the Co-Op and one on M&S. Are we actually at war here?

    You keep backups for 6 months, right? Well, I'm going to hack your system and do nothing for 7 months before encrypting all your files so even if you wipe everything and restore from your oldest backup, you are still infected.

    Your most recent backup was last night, right? OK, so if you restore from last night's backup then you have wiped out details of today's sales, today's deliveries, today's payments to staff, suppliers and HMRC.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,364
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    10 great Beatles songs

    Please Please Me
    She Loves You
    And I Love Her
    Help
    You’ve Got to hide your Love away
    In my Life
    Polythene Pam
    I Want You
    Something
    Across the Universe

    Quite a John skew there.
    Yes I seem to like his songs better than McCartney’s. Just listening to a few more favs and I think they’d be Lennon too; She Said She Said, You Really Got a hold on me, and I should have known Better
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,934
    Trump on the Canadian election: "It was the one who hated Trump the least who won."

    So who wins in the UK on that basis ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,316
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@SkyNews

    Hackers have attempted to break into Co-op's systems, forcing the retailer to shut down some of its operations to block the criminals

    Latest ➡️ https://trib.al/fAnxZO1"

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1917563446872137888

    The Co-op has done a better job than Marks & Spencer then who still have not fully recovered from their ransomware attack. Not to mention that American chap bombing the Houthis. Lucky Elon chainsawed CISA then.
    It's almost as if nothing was learnt from the 1983 movie War Games where teenagers hack into US defense systems. They've only had 40 years to do something about it.
    It’s a lot harder than you may think to keep your systems secure. It only takes a momentary lapse by one person once to give hackers an in and once in they can do an awful lot of harm very quickly
    Yes phishing attackers are getting more savvy, hence ever more complex firewalls and training needed to keep them out
    Trouble is the number of legitimate messages that look exactly like phishing. Companies effectively train people to fall for scams.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,185
    The so called big tough guy has approached China for talks on tariffs !

  • isamisam Posts: 41,364
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    What on earth is going on with 10cc's Dreadlock Holiday.

    How is it that this song hasn't been cancelled. Or the band. Are 10cc still a thing/alive/playing at the Shepherds Bush Empire next Friday?

    What the hell is going on.

    Edit: bloody hell they are playing Molesey in June as part of their UK tour.

    It's just one of the classic four members (Graham Gouldman).
    Trigger's broom/Ship of Theseus/10cc

    (And just about every other band of yesteryear touring today - and as people will know, because I mention it regularly, there is barely a band of yesteryear not touring today.)
    Oh, absolutely. I'm a big Yes fan. The band today has no original members and just one classic member, and I go see every tour.
    But does being an original lend legitimacy. I mean the band Marmalade have no original members now, Graham Knight having retired. However Sandy Newman has been with them since the mid seventies. He has been a member far longer than the likes of Dean Ford and Junior Campbell.

    At the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame (Don Henley reckons it should be achievement not fame, he has a point) look at Blondies acceptance. Debbie Harry was steadfastly against any of the classic line up no longer members playing
    People often talk in terms of original members, but, I agree, being an original member doesn't really matter. Canadian rock band Rush had a different bass player for their first ever concert, before he was replaced. So the bass player everyone knows about isn't technically original, but he's original enough. Steve Howe in Yes didn't join until touring in support of the second album, but he was there when the band made it big and made the albums they're famous for. Lots of bands had original members who aren't as well known as the people who were there when they found success.

    But then you've got a band like The Drifters. No-one in the current band touring as The Drifters was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs. No-one in the current band has worked with anyone who was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs. No-one in the current band has even worked with anyone who has worked with anyone who was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs.
    Then you've got Fleetwood Mac, whose early history confuses the heck out of everyone.

    One of the things I like about ABBA is that they kept it simple.
    Lynyrd Skynyrd tour with zero original members I think . Fleetwood Mac still have Fleetwood and Max don’t they?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,316
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    What on earth is going on with 10cc's Dreadlock Holiday.

    How is it that this song hasn't been cancelled. Or the band. Are 10cc still a thing/alive/playing at the Shepherds Bush Empire next Friday?

    What the hell is going on.

    Edit: bloody hell they are playing Molesey in June as part of their UK tour.

    It's just one of the classic four members (Graham Gouldman).
    Trigger's broom/Ship of Theseus/10cc

    (And just about every other band of yesteryear touring today - and as people will know, because I mention it regularly, there is barely a band of yesteryear not touring today.)
    Oh, absolutely. I'm a big Yes fan. The band today has no original members and just one classic member, and I go see every tour.
    But does being an original lend legitimacy. I mean the band Marmalade have no original members now, Graham Knight having retired. However Sandy Newman has been with them since the mid seventies. He has been a member far longer than the likes of Dean Ford and Junior Campbell.

    At the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame (Don Henley reckons it should be achievement not fame, he has a point) look at Blondies acceptance. Debbie Harry was steadfastly against any of the classic line up no longer members playing
    People often talk in terms of original members, but, I agree, being an original member doesn't really matter. Canadian rock band Rush had a different bass player for their first ever concert, before he was replaced. So the bass player everyone knows about isn't technically original, but he's original enough. Steve Howe in Yes didn't join until touring in support of the second album, but he was there when the band made it big and made the albums they're famous for. Lots of bands had original members who aren't as well known as the people who were there when they found success.

    But then you've got a band like The Drifters. No-one in the current band touring as The Drifters was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs. No-one in the current band has worked with anyone who was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs. No-one in the current band has even worked with anyone who has worked with anyone who was in The Drifters when The Drifters recorded their hit songs.
    Then you've got Fleetwood Mac, whose early history confuses the heck out of everyone.

    One of the things I like about ABBA is that they kept it simple.
    Lynyrd Skynyrd tour with zero original members I think . Fleetwood Mac still have Fleetwood and Max don’t they?
    I saw Lynyrd Skynyrd once. Saw, not heard. They just walked across the stage at some other band's gig, for no apparent reason.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,036
    Nigelb said:

    Trump on the Canadian election: "It was the one who hated Trump the least who won."

    So who wins in the UK on that basis ?

    No it wasn't.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,934

    Nigelb said:

    Trump on the Canadian election: "It was the one who hated Trump the least who won."

    So who wins in the UK on that basis ?

    No it wasn't.
    No, really ?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,364
    edited 2:00PM
    A song that is odd for me in that I really like it but find it almost unlistenable is ‘Eight Miles High’ by The Byrds. The guitar is so bad, like scraping nails down a blackboard, but I love the tune/lyrics
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 102
    According to Vote UK 'insiders' say Labour to scrape home in Runcorn. DYOR
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,770

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Hitler shot himself 80 years ago yesterday. Happy Dead Hitler day to those who celebrate. 😀

    Congrats to Hitler for killing Hitler.
    Not such a bad guy in the end.
    And never forgot, a vegetarian (so ahead of his time) a non-drinker and non-smoker and he loved dogs and children.
    He loved Blondi the dog until he tested out a cyanide capsule on her.
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