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Is this the way for the Tories and Labour to defeat Reform? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,443
edited 6:16AM in General
Is this the way for the Tories and Labour to defeat Reform? – politicalbetting.com

via @tombaldwin66.bsky.social "when I walked around one of the constituency’s more well-to-do areas last week a woman told me she was backing Labour for the 1st time because of what the reputational damage of having a Reform MP 'might mean for our property prices'www.thetimes.com/comment/colu…

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Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,554
    edited 6:21AM

    A big uptick in people crossing into the US from Canada was down to Canada relaxing the rules on visa entry. They just straight off the plane and over the border into the US, where they immediately call the local officials and claim asylum.

    That's totally fair: the US had a genuine beef with how easy it was to get a Canadian tourist visa, and then to slip over the border (via asylum or otherwise) and work.

    Of course: some of this was simply that it's almost impossible to work in Canada without proper authorisation. Canada has one of the smallest undocumented labour markets in the developed world. The US, by contrast, has the largest.

    With that said...

    The moment that the US made a fuss about it, Canada changed their policies. The numbers crossing the border (North to South) are down 60% y-o-y. And this probably understates the impact because large numbers of people had already got Canadian tourist visas.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,585
    rcs1000 said:

    A big uptick in people crossing into the US from Canada was down to Canada relaxing the rules on visa entry. They just straight off the plane and over the border into the US, where they immediately call the local officials and claim asylum.

    That's totally fair: the US had a genuine beef with how easy it was to get a Canadian tourist visa, and then to slip over the border (via asylum or otherwise) and work.

    Of course: some of this was simply that it's almost impossible to work in Canada without proper authorisation. Canada has one of the smallest undocumented labour markets in the developed world. The US, by contrast, has the largest.

    With that said...

    The moment that the US made a fuss about it, Canada changed their policies. The numbers crossing the border (North to South) are down 60% y-o-y. And this probably understates the impact because large numbers of people had already got Canadian tourist visas.
    I imagine the chance you could end up lost in the system of a super max prison in South America with no legal recourse might also be a motivating factor.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,379
    Vote reform to make property more affordable?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,585
    RobD said:

    Vote reform to make property more affordable?

    Its A Bold Strategy Cotton, Lets See If It Pays Off For Em...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,831

    rcs1000 said:

    A big uptick in people crossing into the US from Canada was down to Canada relaxing the rules on visa entry. They just straight off the plane and over the border into the US, where they immediately call the local officials and claim asylum.

    That's totally fair: the US had a genuine beef with how easy it was to get a Canadian tourist visa, and then to slip over the border (via asylum or otherwise) and work.

    Of course: some of this was simply that it's almost impossible to work in Canada without proper authorisation. Canada has one of the smallest undocumented labour markets in the developed world. The US, by contrast, has the largest.

    With that said...

    The moment that the US made a fuss about it, Canada changed their policies. The numbers crossing the border (North to South) are down 60% y-o-y. And this probably understates the impact because large numbers of people had already got Canadian tourist visas.
    I imagine the chance you could end up lost in the system of a super max prison in South America with no legal recourse might also be a motivating factor.
    The numbers were down before the deportations to El Salvador, which is in North, not South America.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,316
    #ClassicDom says vote Reform as NOTA and to annoy the blues, sfaict.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,772
    edited 6:32AM
    rcs1000 said:

    A big uptick in people crossing into the US from Canada was down to Canada relaxing the rules on visa entry. They just straight off the plane and over the border into the US, where they immediately call the local officials and claim asylum.

    That's totally fair: the US had a genuine beef with how easy it was to get a Canadian tourist visa, and then to slip over the border (via asylum or otherwise) and work.

    Of course: some of this was simply that it's almost impossible to work in Canada without proper authorisation. Canada has one of the smallest undocumented labour markets in the developed world. The US, by contrast, has the largest.

    With that said...

    The moment that the US made a fuss about it, Canada changed their policies. The numbers crossing the border (North to South) are down 60% y-o-y. And this probably understates the impact because large numbers of people had already got Canadian tourist visas.
    I'd tend to the view that the USA should control its borders better, perhaps, rather than tell other countries who they are allowed to have as visitors - if that is what they want to achieve.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,585
    edited 6:34AM
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A big uptick in people crossing into the US from Canada was down to Canada relaxing the rules on visa entry. They just straight off the plane and over the border into the US, where they immediately call the local officials and claim asylum.

    That's totally fair: the US had a genuine beef with how easy it was to get a Canadian tourist visa, and then to slip over the border (via asylum or otherwise) and work.

    Of course: some of this was simply that it's almost impossible to work in Canada without proper authorisation. Canada has one of the smallest undocumented labour markets in the developed world. The US, by contrast, has the largest.

    With that said...

    The moment that the US made a fuss about it, Canada changed their policies. The numbers crossing the border (North to South) are down 60% y-o-y. And this probably understates the impact because large numbers of people had already got Canadian tourist visas.
    I'd tend to the view that the USA should control its borders better, perhaps, rather than tell other countries who they are allowed to have as visitors - if that is what they want to achieve.
    I am not sure Canadians would like a border wall.....and have to pay for it....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,554

    rcs1000 said:

    A big uptick in people crossing into the US from Canada was down to Canada relaxing the rules on visa entry. They just straight off the plane and over the border into the US, where they immediately call the local officials and claim asylum.

    That's totally fair: the US had a genuine beef with how easy it was to get a Canadian tourist visa, and then to slip over the border (via asylum or otherwise) and work.

    Of course: some of this was simply that it's almost impossible to work in Canada without proper authorisation. Canada has one of the smallest undocumented labour markets in the developed world. The US, by contrast, has the largest.

    With that said...

    The moment that the US made a fuss about it, Canada changed their policies. The numbers crossing the border (North to South) are down 60% y-o-y. And this probably understates the impact because large numbers of people had already got Canadian tourist visas.
    I imagine the chance you could end up lost in the system of a super max prison in South America with no legal recourse might also be a motivating factor.
    I don't think the timings match that:

    Crossings started dropping immediately following the initial Trudeau-Trump meeting, where Trudeau promised both visa changes (which were implemented) and increased border security.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,729
    Presumably our house is worth more since we got rid of Philip Davies as our MP?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 692
    RobD said:

    Vote reform to make property more affordable?

    If houses became more affordable, there would be a banking crisis. Despite the lack of new homes as mentioned often (FPT), mortgage debt in banks' loan portfolios is going up. And guess what that debt does to prices?
    • The outstanding value of all residential mortgage loans increased by 0.4% from the previous quarter to £1,660.9 billion, and was 0.3% higher than a year earlier (Table A).1
    • The value of gross mortgage advances increased by 16.7% from the previous quarter to £60.2 billion, the first increase since 2023 Q3, and was 15.5% higher than a year earlier (Table A and Chart 1).
    • The value of new mortgage commitments (lending agreed to be advanced in the coming months) increased by 11.3% from the previous quarter to £66.9 billion, and was 12.5% greater than a year earlier (Table A and Chart 1).
    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statistics/mortgage-lenders-and-administrators/2024/2024-q2
  • vikvik Posts: 287

    rcs1000 said:

    A big uptick in people crossing into the US from Canada was down to Canada relaxing the rules on visa entry. They just straight off the plane and over the border into the US, where they immediately call the local officials and claim asylum.

    That's totally fair: the US had a genuine beef with how easy it was to get a Canadian tourist visa, and then to slip over the border (via asylum or otherwise) and work.

    Of course: some of this was simply that it's almost impossible to work in Canada without proper authorisation. Canada has one of the smallest undocumented labour markets in the developed world. The US, by contrast, has the largest.

    With that said...

    The moment that the US made a fuss about it, Canada changed their policies. The numbers crossing the border (North to South) are down 60% y-o-y. And this probably understates the impact because large numbers of people had already got Canadian tourist visas.
    I imagine the chance you could end up lost in the system of a super max prison in South America with no legal recourse might also be a motivating factor.
    This NYT article suggests that the movement is now South to North, with people attempting to flee from the USA to Canada:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/01/world/canada/canada-us-border-immigration.html?unlocked_article_code=1.D08.Qdcc.oBnNu0XfHLm1&smid=url-share
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,171
    Polls are open! Dont all rush at once….
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,210
    edited 6:38AM

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    kjh said:

    I've just read that Gatwick airport management are putting up the drop off charge to 7quid from 2 May. There is no possible justification apart from some bullshit about the eco footprint bollocks so often spoken about.
    If Gatwick was worried about it's eco footprintbolocks they'd reduce the no of flights not try for a second runway.
    The whole business is shambolic and designed to fleece the traveller.

    You get 2 hrs pick up and drop off at the long stay foc and the airport buses are every few minutes and only take a few minutes so it is a bit of an unnecessary luxury to be delivered or picked up directly from the terminal to be honest.
    I would have put the charge up even further. People complaining about this probably have a bad case of CarBrain, they can't comprehend doing anything but using a car to drive right to the door of the place they need to be.
    I normally get the train to Gatwick, unless I have a particularly early flight - and I tend not to book those. Partly because I can't get there, partly because getting up in the middle of the night starts a trip on a bum note
    The couple of times I’ve had an early flight from Gatwick it’s been travel down the night before and the premier inn by the airport isn’t that expensive in the scheme of things
    I shall be getting a neighbour to drop me at the petrol station and walk the 100 yds or so to the escalator. SCREW Gatwick who are putting up the charge to make them look green. It's Ed Milibandism and they can get stuffed.
    With all due respect, they are simply invoking the name of Milliband to justify raising prices.
    So are all most corporate green initiatives. Robbing the poor and claiming you're doing it for the future of the planet. Nice work if you can get it.
    Stop being so ridiculous. The highest income decile fly 5-8x as much as the lowest (and that's just number of trips), and drive 3x as much. The top 1% account for over 20% of all flights.

    Given the outsize impact of air travel on the emissions, a tax on people driving to the airport is as about as fair an environmental tax that I can think of. Miliband should introduce it while cutting domestic electricity taxes, which have an inverse distributional impact.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,503
    Sean_F said:

    That slice of the electorate is pretty niche, IMHO.

    I'm also not sure there's much evidence for it being true.

    It's a form of snobbery.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,171

    That will be Tom Baldwin former senior Labour Party advisor. Not exactly an impartial observer to rely on a single anecdote. Thus buyer beware.

    Seller beware, surely?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,772

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A big uptick in people crossing into the US from Canada was down to Canada relaxing the rules on visa entry. They just straight off the plane and over the border into the US, where they immediately call the local officials and claim asylum.

    That's totally fair: the US had a genuine beef with how easy it was to get a Canadian tourist visa, and then to slip over the border (via asylum or otherwise) and work.

    Of course: some of this was simply that it's almost impossible to work in Canada without proper authorisation. Canada has one of the smallest undocumented labour markets in the developed world. The US, by contrast, has the largest.

    With that said...

    The moment that the US made a fuss about it, Canada changed their policies. The numbers crossing the border (North to South) are down 60% y-o-y. And this probably understates the impact because large numbers of people had already got Canadian tourist visas.
    I'd tend to the view that the USA should control its borders better, perhaps, rather than tell other countries who they are allowed to have as visitors - if that is what they want to achieve.
    I am not sure Canadians would like a border wall.....and have to pay for it....
    Like Mexico did ? :wink:
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,495
    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    kjh said:

    I've just read that Gatwick airport management are putting up the drop off charge to 7quid from 2 May. There is no possible justification apart from some bullshit about the eco footprint bollocks so often spoken about.
    If Gatwick was worried about it's eco footprintbolocks they'd reduce the no of flights not try for a second runway.
    The whole business is shambolic and designed to fleece the traveller.

    You get 2 hrs pick up and drop off at the long stay foc and the airport buses are every few minutes and only take a few minutes so it is a bit of an unnecessary luxury to be delivered or picked up directly from the terminal to be honest.
    I would have put the charge up even further. People complaining about this probably have a bad case of CarBrain, they can't comprehend doing anything but using a car to drive right to the door of the place they need to be.
    I normally get the train to Gatwick, unless I have a particularly early flight - and I tend not to book those. Partly because I can't get there, partly because getting up in the middle of the night starts a trip on a bum note
    The couple of times I’ve had an early flight from Gatwick it’s been travel down the night before and the premier inn by the airport isn’t that expensive in the scheme of things
    I shall be getting a neighbour to drop me at the petrol station and walk the 100 yds or so to the escalator. SCREW Gatwick who are putting up the charge to make them look green. It's Ed Milibandism and they can get stuffed.
    With all due respect, they are simply invoking the name of Milliband to justify raising prices.
    So are all most corporate green initiatives. Robbing the poor and claiming you're doing it for the future of the planet. Nice work if you can get it.
    Stop being so ridiculous. The highest income decile fly 5-8x as much as the lowest (and that's just number of trips), and drive 3x as much. The top 1% account for over 20% of all flights.

    Given the outsize impact of air travel on the emissions, a tax on people driving to the airport is as about as fair an environmental tax that I can think of. Miliband should introduce it while cutting domestic electricity taxes, which have an inverse distributional impact.
    Yet the highest decile will be able to absorb that cost more easily (in the same way food price rises affect rich and poor in the same terms of having to pay, but are easier for the rich to just shrug off).
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,210
    Stuff like this makes me think the Conservative floor is pretty solid. There is a sort of self-respect that will stop people voting for Reform - or at least Farage.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,367

    #ClassicDom says vote Reform as NOTA and to annoy the blues, sfaict.

    On a journey, in the modern parlance.

    Only 5 years ago he was effectively running the government.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,585
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A big uptick in people crossing into the US from Canada was down to Canada relaxing the rules on visa entry. They just straight off the plane and over the border into the US, where they immediately call the local officials and claim asylum.

    That's totally fair: the US had a genuine beef with how easy it was to get a Canadian tourist visa, and then to slip over the border (via asylum or otherwise) and work.

    Of course: some of this was simply that it's almost impossible to work in Canada without proper authorisation. Canada has one of the smallest undocumented labour markets in the developed world. The US, by contrast, has the largest.

    With that said...

    The moment that the US made a fuss about it, Canada changed their policies. The numbers crossing the border (North to South) are down 60% y-o-y. And this probably understates the impact because large numbers of people had already got Canadian tourist visas.
    I'd tend to the view that the USA should control its borders better, perhaps, rather than tell other countries who they are allowed to have as visitors - if that is what they want to achieve.
    I am not sure Canadians would like a border wall.....and have to pay for it....
    Like Mexico did ? :wink:
    Well according to Trump's man the other day, they have been paying in all sorts of ways......but then the administration also tells us price of eggs are down, tractor production is up....
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,407

    Sean_F said:

    That slice of the electorate is pretty niche, IMHO.

    I'm also not sure there's much evidence for it being true.

    It's a form of snobbery.
    Snobbery is why it probably is true.

    At the last boundary review, the border between Romford and Hornchurch & Upminster was tidied up a bit. House prices were cited in a number of objections from people who didn't want to be moved into Romford.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,210

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    kjh said:

    I've just read that Gatwick airport management are putting up the drop off charge to 7quid from 2 May. There is no possible justification apart from some bullshit about the eco footprint bollocks so often spoken about.
    If Gatwick was worried about it's eco footprintbolocks they'd reduce the no of flights not try for a second runway.
    The whole business is shambolic and designed to fleece the traveller.

    You get 2 hrs pick up and drop off at the long stay foc and the airport buses are every few minutes and only take a few minutes so it is a bit of an unnecessary luxury to be delivered or picked up directly from the terminal to be honest.
    I would have put the charge up even further. People complaining about this probably have a bad case of CarBrain, they can't comprehend doing anything but using a car to drive right to the door of the place they need to be.
    I normally get the train to Gatwick, unless I have a particularly early flight - and I tend not to book those. Partly because I can't get there, partly because getting up in the middle of the night starts a trip on a bum note
    The couple of times I’ve had an early flight from Gatwick it’s been travel down the night before and the premier inn by the airport isn’t that expensive in the scheme of things
    I shall be getting a neighbour to drop me at the petrol station and walk the 100 yds or so to the escalator. SCREW Gatwick who are putting up the charge to make them look green. It's Ed Milibandism and they can get stuffed.
    With all due respect, they are simply invoking the name of Milliband to justify raising prices.
    So are all most corporate green initiatives. Robbing the poor and claiming you're doing it for the future of the planet. Nice work if you can get it.
    Stop being so ridiculous. The highest income decile fly 5-8x as much as the lowest (and that's just number of trips), and drive 3x as much. The top 1% account for over 20% of all flights.

    Given the outsize impact of air travel on the emissions, a tax on people driving to the airport is as about as fair an environmental tax that I can think of. Miliband should introduce it while cutting domestic electricity taxes, which have an inverse distributional impact.
    Yet the highest decile will be able to absorb that cost more easily (in the same way food price rises affect rich and poor in the same terms of having to pay, but are easier for the rich to just shrug off).
    But that's the same with *everything*. It's not a function of the tax being unfair, but rather inequality in the UK. And it would decrease said inequality.

    However, there is an argument in some environmental circles that we should fund the switch to renewables via standard progressive taxation rather than additional taxes on energy, which I tend to agree with. It would be a very small increase, given the overall cost of that subsidy is so small (roughly 3% on your energy bill).

    But that misses the Pigou principle of "polluter pays".
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,367
    edited 6:46AM
    I think there is potential for Labour to squeeze the Tory vote tactically. They do in Scotland to defeat the Nats.

    In less than 24 hours we will know.

    I think Lab hold is probably value on current odds, Merseyside always seems less Reformy than other bits of the North.

    Greens to beat LDs at evens is my other bet. The Corbynite Greens won't vote tactically.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,772
    edited 6:46AM
    Where are we on outcome predictions?

    These are mine - the main one is that I am sticking with my long-suggested "+500 for Reform will be enough to be taken seriously", which seems in range.

    RefUK: Plus 500-600
    Labour: Minus 80-100
    Lib Dem: Plus 100-200
    Con: Minus 600-650
    Green: Plus 25-50
    Others: The balance item

    Margins or Error: Ish
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,310
    This has to top the list of least persuasive reasons Reform might underperform
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,367
    MattW said:

    Where are we on outcome predictions?

    These are mine - the main one is that I am sticking with my long-suggested "+500 for Reform will be enough to be taken seriously", which seems in range.

    RefUK: Plus 500-600
    Labour: Minus 80-100
    Lib Dem: Plus 100-200
    Con: Minus 600-650
    Green: Plus 25-50
    Others: The balance item

    Margins or Error: Ish

    Looks about right to me. Mark Pack linked to this summary of LE predictions. There's quite a range.

    https://www.markpack.org.uk/174615/local-election-predictions/
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,210

    Eabhal said:

    Stuff like this makes me think the Conservative floor is pretty solid. There is a sort of self-respect that will stop people voting for Reform - or at least Farage.

    We used to talk about Tory / Labour floor being 30%, now we are talking about it being 20%.....
    I think they are doing quite well, all things considered. Neither party has much to offer at the moment. Much of their vote has been lost to don't knows and will not votes, which is a real source of optimism. There is potential for that to come back.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,901
    Eabhal said:

    Stuff like this makes me think the Conservative floor is pretty solid. There is a sort of self-respect that will stop people voting for Reform - or at least Farage.

    The Tory floor is the actual floor. Whilst there will clearly be some ex Tories in the Fuker ranks, much of their appeal is to the voters who will either only have voted Tory in 2019 or have never voted Tory.

    Why are the Tories so low in the polls? Its because they're so low in the public attention. People stopped listening to them during the last parliament and with Kemi in charge they're not about to give them another try.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,310

    Eabhal said:

    Stuff like this makes me think the Conservative floor is pretty solid. There is a sort of self-respect that will stop people voting for Reform - or at least Farage.

    We used to talk about Tory / Labour floor being 30%, now we are talking about it being 20%.....
    The only floor is 0%
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,503

    Sean_F said:

    That slice of the electorate is pretty niche, IMHO.

    I'm also not sure there's much evidence for it being true.

    It's a form of snobbery.
    Snobbery is why it probably is true.

    At the last boundary review, the border between Romford and Hornchurch & Upminster was tidied up a bit. House prices were cited in a number of objections from people who didn't want to be moved into Romford.
    Was there a material difference in those house prices as a consequence?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,901
    Foxy said:

    I think there is potential for Labour to squeeze the Tory vote tactically. They do in Scotland to defeat the Nats.

    In less than 24 hours we will know.

    I think Lab hold is probably value on current odds, Merseyside always seems less Reformy than other bits of the North.

    Greens to beat LDs at evens is my other bet. The Corbynite Greens won't vote tactically.

    I was out with many Labour friends last weekend. Solid, centrist Labour people and even they are largely disillusioned with the government.

    I have no doubt that some people will tactically vote Labour to stop Reform. But I would expect the Labour vote to be unenthusiastic at best, vs a fuker army very enthusiastic.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,185
    Reform really should win this by election . They have the benefit of Labour and the Tories being unpopular.

    The only hope Labour have is to heavily squeeze the Lib Dem and Green vote , however the polling so far hasn’t shown evidence of that .

    In terms of Find Out Now polls which show the best national lead for Reform it’s normally better to poll over several days and not conduct fieldwork on just one day .
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,772
    Hmm.

    RFK Jr on measles: "The MMR vaccine contains a lot of aborted fetus debris."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1917748575267602924

    That is contemporaneous - not from years ago.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,544

    Sean_F said:

    That slice of the electorate is pretty niche, IMHO.

    I'm also not sure there's much evidence for it being true.

    It's a form of snobbery.
    Snobbery is why it probably is true.

    At the last boundary review, the border between Romford and Hornchurch & Upminster was tidied up a bit. House prices were cited in a number of objections from people who didn't want to be moved into Romford.
    There's a story about a road on the Surrey-Hampshire border where house prices are a bit higher on the Surrey side. Not sure if it's true, though.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,281
    MattW said:

    Hmm.

    RFK Jr on measles: "The MMR vaccine contains a lot of aborted fetus debris."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1917748575267602924

    That is contemporaneous - not from years ago.

    He is going to kill millions of people
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,281
    Musk now desperately denying the Tesla board are trying to replace him
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,934
    Regarding Robert's substack post on the last thread, it's not entirely accurate.

    The intertia in large spinning masses which generate electricity means they resist instantaneous changes in generating frequency, as it makes it simply impossible for their speed of rotation (which determines the frequency at which they generate AC power) to change rapidly.

    It doesn't mean they release extra power.

    The only reason we need a constant frequency (or AC power at all) is all the legacy kit of the last century's electrical generation. Mismatched frequencies will damage it.

    With modern power inverters, if you were starting from scratch, you could build a new grid which was entirely DC.
    Too much old stuff out there designed for AC, though.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,185
    Find Out Now show Reform leading in London and their combined share with the Tories of 44% .

    Not buying that and they don’t publish their weighting’s . They’re likely to be having to weight their results heavily as with just one day of fieldwork you’re going to struggle to fill your quotas .
  • (2/5)

    I’d be quite surprised if Labour voters weren’t disillusioned right now, Labour have virtually only done unpopular things so far.

    But recall that it is 2025 and the next election won’t be for at least three years. A lot can happen in that time.

    Very soon we will have the immigration figures which will presumably show a large drop. Labour seems determined to cut immigration.

    They seem to be slowly working out a plan for the small boats which I think entails a deal with France.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,185
    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Hmm.

    RFK Jr on measles: "The MMR vaccine contains a lot of aborted fetus debris."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1917748575267602924

    That is contemporaneous - not from years ago.

    He is going to kill millions of people
    The biggest impact will be on GOP voters who are much more anti vax .
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,281
    Nigelb said:

    With modern power inverters, if you were starting from scratch, you could build a new grid which was entirely DC.

    You really wouldn't

    The reason AC is better for power distribution is you can transform it to very high voltages which minimise transmission losses then transform it down again
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,367

    Foxy said:

    I think there is potential for Labour to squeeze the Tory vote tactically. They do in Scotland to defeat the Nats.

    In less than 24 hours we will know.

    I think Lab hold is probably value on current odds, Merseyside always seems less Reformy than other bits of the North.

    Greens to beat LDs at evens is my other bet. The Corbynite Greens won't vote tactically.

    I was out with many Labour friends last weekend. Solid, centrist Labour people and even they are largely disillusioned with the government.

    I have no doubt that some people will tactically vote Labour to stop Reform. But I would expect the Labour vote to be unenthusiastic at best, vs a fuker army very enthusiastic.
    I haven't been Labour in over 2 decades, but I agree.

    We do need to allow that this is ordinarily a very safe Labour seat, so would take a massive swing to unseat, and Merseyside always seems more solidly Labour than flakier areas.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,934
    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Robert's substack post on the last thread, it's not entirely accurate.

    The intertia in large spinning masses which generate electricity means they resist instantaneous changes in generating frequency, as it makes it simply impossible for their speed of rotation (which determines the frequency at which they generate AC power) to change rapidly.

    It doesn't mean they release extra power.

    The only reason we need a constant frequency (or AC power at all) is all the legacy kit of the last century's electrical generation. Mismatched frequencies will damage it.

    With modern power inverters, if you were starting from scratch, you could build a new grid which was entirely DC.
    Too much old stuff out there designed for AC, though.

    He is, of course, absolutely right about gas turbines. Which provide little inertia.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 821

    Sean_F said:

    That slice of the electorate is pretty niche, IMHO.

    I'm also not sure there's much evidence for it being true.

    It's a form of snobbery.
    Snobbery is why it probably is true.

    At the last boundary review, the border between Romford and Hornchurch & Upminster was tidied up a bit. House prices were cited in a number of objections from people who didn't want to be moved into Romford.
    I would have thought the postal address mattered more than constituency - who cares which constituency a house is in when you view it?

    (Written just over the Hornchurch side of the Romford boundary, both postal and ward - though I always say I live in Romford. Is Hornchurch really posher? As a non-native I can't say I'd noticed!)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,185
    Best thing for house prices is to get a Waitrose to open up in your area !
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,659
    Lol! On topic, it's probably not true but the thought is an amusing one this bright and sunny morning.

    Policies won't shift votes, but snobbery will. Hmmm....all very English,

    Enjoy the weather, and the results, everyone.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,934
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    With modern power inverters, if you were starting from scratch, you could build a new grid which was entirely DC.

    You really wouldn't

    The reason AC is better for power distribution is you can transform it to very high voltages which minimise transmission losses then transform it down again
    That certainly used to be the case, it being much easier to step up and down AC voltages.
    But with modern power electronics, you can effectively do that with DC (which is far more efficient for long distance transmission anyway), which is why long distance high voltage transmission is already moving over to DC ... still supplying an AC grid.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,503
    Are Elections Canada still verifying and validating votes?

    Ladbrokes still haven't paid out on Liberal Minority.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,792
    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    That slice of the electorate is pretty niche, IMHO.

    I'm also not sure there's much evidence for it being true.

    It's a form of snobbery.
    Snobbery is why it probably is true.

    At the last boundary review, the border between Romford and Hornchurch & Upminster was tidied up a bit. House prices were cited in a number of objections from people who didn't want to be moved into Romford.
    There's a story about a road on the Surrey-Hampshire border where house prices are a bit higher on the Surrey side. Not sure if it's true, though.
    Many, many years ago I owned a flat in London E8 (Hackney). We were a mere 80 yards from London N1 (Islington). The equivalent sized flats across the border in N1 were very significantly more expensive than ours.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,444
    Are many constituencies predominantly well-to-do or conversely down-at-heel? The only constituencies I've lived in have covered quite a wide area with a wide variety of wealth/relative poverty.

    Not really understanding what the reputational damage of a Reform MP might be, I confess. If s/he is that awful as an MP, vote 'em out again.

    Good morning, everybody.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,281
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    With modern power inverters, if you were starting from scratch, you could build a new grid which was entirely DC.

    You really wouldn't

    The reason AC is better for power distribution is you can transform it to very high voltages which minimise transmission losses then transform it down again
    That certainly used to be the case, it being much easier to step up and down AC voltages.
    But with modern power electronics, you can effectively do that with DC (which is far more efficient for long distance transmission anyway), which is why long distance high voltage transmission is already moving over to DC ... still supplying an AC grid.
    Transformers are more reliable than inverters

    Unless they explode
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,322
    nico67 said:

    Best thing for house prices is to get a Waitrose to open up in your area !

    Vote LD and get a Gails for free.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,407

    Sean_F said:

    That slice of the electorate is pretty niche, IMHO.

    I'm also not sure there's much evidence for it being true.

    It's a form of snobbery.
    Snobbery is why it probably is true.

    At the last boundary review, the border between Romford and Hornchurch & Upminster was tidied up a bit. House prices were cited in a number of objections from people who didn't want to be moved into Romford.
    Was there a material difference in those house prices as a consequence?
    Not really, and the area is pretty homogeneous at the boundary.

    But since when did material reality have anything to do with political campaigning?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,001
    Stuff like this guarantees a Reform victory. And it’s daily


    "Small boat migrant avoids jail after punching female police officers

    "Ethiopian asylum seeker had to be dragged off one of his victims by a member of the public, court hears"

    Tariku Hadgu, 21, was told by a judge his brain “is not fully formed” and he would be imprisoned if he committed another offence."

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1917550305866117239?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,659

    nico67 said:

    Best thing for house prices is to get a Waitrose to open up in your area !

    Vote LD and get a Gails for free.
    Brilliant. The possibilities are endless. 'We guarantee a Waitrose in every area that votes for us. Teslas banned. No TV dishes allowed except in designated Council areas.'

    Why did nobody think of this before?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,896
    PJH said:

    Sean_F said:

    That slice of the electorate is pretty niche, IMHO.

    I'm also not sure there's much evidence for it being true.

    It's a form of snobbery.
    Snobbery is why it probably is true.

    At the last boundary review, the border between Romford and Hornchurch & Upminster was tidied up a bit. House prices were cited in a number of objections from people who didn't want to be moved into Romford.
    I would have thought the postal address mattered more than constituency - who cares which constituency a house is in when you view it?

    (Written just over the Hornchurch side of the Romford boundary, both postal and ward - though I always say I live in Romford. Is Hornchurch really posher? As a non-native I can't say I'd noticed!)
    If the word 'Helsby' (which is quite nice) is used a lot in tge same context as 'Reform gain' it doesn't do much for the reputation of Helsby. See also: Clacton, Great Yarmouth - both of which, I would say, the angry derision towards which has risen in recent years (I have nevwr been to either so can't say whether it is justified).
    Frodsham (which is very nice, despite being the scene of the original kerfuffle) is not mentioned in the constituency title so would probably get away with it, and Runcorn's reputation probably can't get much worse anyway.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,544
    Sean_F said:

    Those ward-level projections for Politics UK are very interesting.

    The Conservatives are in the most trouble. They're getting hit by the Lib Dems in posh heartland areas, and by Reform in poorer heartland areas. The Lib Dems have a clear core vote of posh people. Reform are winning working, and lower-middle class people outside Core Cities. Labour have university seats, seats with lots of professional public sector workers, and areas with big BAME populations. It's honestly hard to see what section of the population the Conservatives are now appealing to. The 2019-24 government's approach, of focusing their appeal on retired people who favour high levels of immigration, has killed off their base.

    Labour are also in trouble. Reform are sweeping through their old heartlands (Durham, industrial Northumberland, Doncaster, Burnley, the Lancashire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Staffordshire, ex-mining, industrial areas). That in turn, suggests they'll sweep through South Wales, Greater Manchester, South Yorkshire, next year. Labour are saved by their new heartlands (see above). Reform are simply sweeping up more support than UKIP ever did, and since nothing succeeds like success, they are coming over as a lot more professional.

    IMHO, Reform will take Runcorn fairly easily. People kick the government in by-elections.

    Excellent post. I think the narrow window for the Tories is for people like me. I don't have any faith in them doing much good, but I think they are probably the best of a bad bunch. But I'm not voting today as my election got cancelled.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,322
    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    That slice of the electorate is pretty niche, IMHO.

    I'm also not sure there's much evidence for it being true.

    It's a form of snobbery.
    Snobbery is why it probably is true.

    At the last boundary review, the border between Romford and Hornchurch & Upminster was tidied up a bit. House prices were cited in a number of objections from people who didn't want to be moved into Romford.
    There's a story about a road on the Surrey-Hampshire border where house prices are a bit higher on the Surrey side. Not sure if it's true, though.
    No idea if it applies on that border, but given you can have different council taxes that vary by several hundred or more per year, for what to the specific homeowner are effectively similar services, the prices of similar homes on the same road should sometimes vary well into five figures by simply being in a different council area, let alone county.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,934
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    With modern power inverters, if you were starting from scratch, you could build a new grid which was entirely DC.

    You really wouldn't

    The reason AC is better for power distribution is you can transform it to very high voltages which minimise transmission losses then transform it down again
    That certainly used to be the case, it being much easier to step up and down AC voltages.
    But with modern power electronics, you can effectively do that with DC (which is far more efficient for long distance transmission anyway), which is why long distance high voltage transmission is already moving over to DC ... still supplying an AC grid.
    Transformers are more reliable than inverters

    Unless they explode
    Is that true these days ?
    They're vastly more reliable than a decade ago.

    One other point about Robert's piece - wind turbines don't provide any frequency inertia in the way a steam turbine does, as their generating frequency isn't mechanically determined, but rather controlled by power electronics.
    So the rotating inertial mass isn't mechanically coupled to the grid frequency.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,185
    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Those ward-level projections for Politics UK are very interesting.

    The Conservatives are in the most trouble. They're getting hit by the Lib Dems in posh heartland areas, and by Reform in poorer heartland areas. The Lib Dems have a clear core vote of posh people. Reform are winning working, and lower-middle class people outside Core Cities. Labour have university seats, seats with lots of professional public sector workers, and areas with big BAME populations. It's honestly hard to see what section of the population the Conservatives are now appealing to. The 2019-24 government's approach, of focusing their appeal on retired people who favour high levels of immigration, has killed off their base.

    Labour are also in trouble. Reform are sweeping through their old heartlands (Durham, industrial Northumberland, Doncaster, Burnley, the Lancashire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Staffordshire, ex-mining, industrial areas). That in turn, suggests they'll sweep through South Wales, Greater Manchester, South Yorkshire, next year. Labour are saved by their new heartlands (see above). Reform are simply sweeping up more support than UKIP ever did, and since nothing succeeds like success, they are coming over as a lot more professional.

    IMHO, Reform will take Runcorn fairly easily. People kick the government in by-elections.

    Excellent post. I think the narrow window for the Tories is for people like me. I don't have any faith in them doing much good, but I think they are probably the best of a bad bunch. But I'm not voting today as my election got cancelled.
    I feel somewhat cheated as well that elections here in Eastbourne got cancelled . It would have been even worse for the Tories if they had gone ahead .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,001
    Sean_F said:

    Those ward-level projections for Politics UK are very interesting.

    The Conservatives are in the most trouble. They're getting hit by the Lib Dems in posh heartland areas, and by Reform in poorer heartland areas. The Lib Dems have a clear core vote of posh people. Reform are winning working, and lower-middle class people outside Core Cities. Labour have university seats, seats with lots of professional public sector workers, and areas with big BAME populations. It's honestly hard to see what section of the population the Conservatives are now appealing to. The 2019-24 government's approach, of focusing their appeal on retired people who favour high levels of immigration, has killed off their base.

    Labour are also in trouble. Reform are sweeping through their old heartlands (Durham, industrial Northumberland, Doncaster, Burnley, the Lancashire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Staffordshire, ex-mining, industrial areas). That in turn, suggests they'll sweep through South Wales, Greater Manchester, South Yorkshire, next year. Labour are saved by their new heartlands (see above). Reform are simply sweeping up more support than UKIP ever did, and since nothing succeeds like success, they are coming over as a lot more professional.

    IMHO, Reform will take Runcorn fairly easily. People kick the government in by-elections.

    Nice analysis. However, THIS

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/labours-demographic-crisis/

    Labour’s BME base is collapsing with the rise of the sectarian “Gaza independents” - the Muslim vote

    This alone could cost them tens of seats in 2029. Yay
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,575
    edited 7:27AM

    Eabhal said:

    Stuff like this makes me think the Conservative floor is pretty solid. There is a sort of self-respect that will stop people voting for Reform - or at least Farage.

    We used to talk about Tory / Labour floor being 30%, now we are talking about it being 20%.....
    The only floor is 0%
    I wonder a lot about the floors. I think the only floor is on the part of the electorate looking for sensible parties to do sensible things, and I reckon that does form a slight majority.

    That does not mean they will always find sensible options to vote for, or always vote the 'sensible' way. It does not mean that they don't think, like Leon, that a paradigm shift is not needed, just that such a shift should be filtered and led by serious, sensible people.

    I feel Reform at current attracts very little of this sensible vote. The UK doesn't immediately feel that this sensible vote isn't going to split mainly Con / Lab with a bit of Lib Dem, and under those circumstances the floors are likely to be Con 20%, Labour around 16% as seen in much of Europe, and combined slightly higher still.

    The existential danger to Lab / Con comes when the sensible vote deserts the traditional, as happened with Macron in France, as happened with the long term project to paint AN / FdI as the sensible right of centre option in Italy. I don't see what happens in the UK to cause that shift.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,665
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A big uptick in people crossing into the US from Canada was down to Canada relaxing the rules on visa entry. They just straight off the plane and over the border into the US, where they immediately call the local officials and claim asylum.

    That's totally fair: the US had a genuine beef with how easy it was to get a Canadian tourist visa, and then to slip over the border (via asylum or otherwise) and work.

    Of course: some of this was simply that it's almost impossible to work in Canada without proper authorisation. Canada has one of the smallest undocumented labour markets in the developed world. The US, by contrast, has the largest.

    With that said...

    The moment that the US made a fuss about it, Canada changed their policies. The numbers crossing the border (North to South) are down 60% y-o-y. And this probably understates the impact because large numbers of people had already got Canadian tourist visas.
    I'd tend to the view that the USA should control its borders better, perhaps, rather than tell other countries who they are allowed to have as visitors - if that is what they want to achieve.
    Trump could get Canada to pay for a wall...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,585
    edited 7:28AM
    Leon said:

    Stuff like this guarantees a Reform victory. And it’s daily


    "Small boat migrant avoids jail after punching female police officers

    "Ethiopian asylum seeker had to be dragged off one of his victims by a member of the public, court hears"

    Tariku Hadgu, 21, was told by a judge his brain “is not fully formed” and he would be imprisoned if he committed another offence."

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1917550305866117239?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “You’re a young man of 20 and your brain is not fully formed." - Bigotry of low expectations....

    I was under the impression that attacking a police officer was a much more serious offence....attacking two of them, while admitting drug use....nah, off your trot that big brain of yours is still developing.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,659

    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    That slice of the electorate is pretty niche, IMHO.

    I'm also not sure there's much evidence for it being true.

    It's a form of snobbery.
    Snobbery is why it probably is true.

    At the last boundary review, the border between Romford and Hornchurch & Upminster was tidied up a bit. House prices were cited in a number of objections from people who didn't want to be moved into Romford.
    There's a story about a road on the Surrey-Hampshire border where house prices are a bit higher on the Surrey side. Not sure if it's true, though.
    No idea if it applies on that border, but given you can have different council taxes that vary by several hundred or more per year, for what to the specific homeowner are effectively similar services, the prices of similar homes on the same road should sometimes vary well into five figures by simply being in a different council area, let alone county.
    It certainly applies on the Gloucestershire/Oxfordshire border. Try checking out relative house prices in Bledington (Glos) and Kingham (Oxon). The villages are all of two miles apart.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,187
    It is certainly true that Reform now attract the white working class vote that used to vote Labour. So there may well be some snobbishness from some middle class voters about them.

    It is not impossible therefore that a certain type of Hyacinth Bucket lady voter who would not normally vote anything but Tory (or at a push LD locally as they mend the potholes and stop developers spoiling their views) might hold their nose and vote Starmer Labour for the first time to stop a Reform MP lowering the tone of their area and their house prices. Most Tory voters though, especially straight white male Tory voters, would vote Reform over Labour if they were the top 2 choices in the seat they lived in
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,407
    PJH said:

    Sean_F said:

    That slice of the electorate is pretty niche, IMHO.

    I'm also not sure there's much evidence for it being true.

    It's a form of snobbery.
    Snobbery is why it probably is true.

    At the last boundary review, the border between Romford and Hornchurch & Upminster was tidied up a bit. House prices were cited in a number of objections from people who didn't want to be moved into Romford.
    I would have thought the postal address mattered more than constituency - who cares which constituency a house is in when you view it?

    (Written just over the Hornchurch side of the Romford boundary, both postal and ward - though I always say I live in Romford. Is Hornchurch really posher? As a non-native I can't say I'd noticed!)
    I'm also not from these parts, but I'd say yes. One political manifestation- Hornchurch elects Residents Association councillors, Romford has Conservatives.

    But Upminster is posher than both.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,934
    We should.

    In a major procurement move, at least one NATO country is reportedly attempting to acquire Ukraine's highly successful Delta battlefield management system.

    The Delta system is both accessible and feature-rich, enabling increased awareness and coordination across the joint force.

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1917401096420552832
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,185
    HYUFD said:

    It is certainly true that Reform now attract the white working class vote that used to vote Labour. So there may well be some snobbishness from some middle class voters about them.

    It is not impossible therefore that a certain type of Hyacinth Bucket lady voter who would not normally vote anything but Tory (or at a push LD locally as they mend the potholes and stop developers spoiling their views) might hold their nose and vote Starmer Labour for the first time to stop a Reform MP lowering the tone of their area and their house prices. Most Tory voters though, especially straight white male Tory voters, would vote Reform over Labour if they were the top 2 choices in the seat they lived in

    I’d vote Tory to help stop Reform and you know I don’t say that lightly given my political persuasion !
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,585
    edited 7:30AM
    Nigelb said:

    We should.

    In a major procurement move, at least one NATO country is reportedly attempting to acquire Ukraine's highly successful Delta battlefield management system.

    The Delta system is both accessible and feature-rich, enabling increased awareness and coordination across the joint force.

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1917401096420552832

    If there can be a lasting peace deal, I can see a load of Ukrainian tech start-ups get a boat load of funding. e.g. drones are so useful for so many tasks.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,404
    Interesting point from Jeremy Bowen on Ukraine, anti Americanism (or at least POTUS) has rocketed there. Pre Trump inauguration 21% of Ukes saw a Trump-led US as bad for Ukraine, now it’s 70% plus.
    I wonder if any of the PB ‘Trump will be ok for UKR’ guys have been on a similar journey?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,407

    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    That slice of the electorate is pretty niche, IMHO.

    I'm also not sure there's much evidence for it being true.

    It's a form of snobbery.
    Snobbery is why it probably is true.

    At the last boundary review, the border between Romford and Hornchurch & Upminster was tidied up a bit. House prices were cited in a number of objections from people who didn't want to be moved into Romford.
    There's a story about a road on the Surrey-Hampshire border where house prices are a bit higher on the Surrey side. Not sure if it's true, though.
    No idea if it applies on that border, but given you can have different council taxes that vary by several hundred or more per year, for what to the specific homeowner are effectively similar services, the prices of similar homes on the same road should sometimes vary well into five figures by simply being in a different council area, let alone county.
    Back in the day, that was the standard Conservative local election PEB.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,001

    Leon said:

    Stuff like this guarantees a Reform victory. And it’s daily


    "Small boat migrant avoids jail after punching female police officers

    "Ethiopian asylum seeker had to be dragged off one of his victims by a member of the public, court hears"

    Tariku Hadgu, 21, was told by a judge his brain “is not fully formed” and he would be imprisoned if he committed another offence."

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1917550305866117239?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “You’re a young man of 20 and your brain is not fully formed." - Bigotry of low expectations....,
    Read the underlying Telegraph article. It gets worse. So many wretched details. eg this:

    “Tagdu was also given a 12-week curfew and banned from all bars, pubs and clubs in Dorset for one year.

    He was also ordered to pay £250 compensation to each officer, paid out of the £67.50 a week he receives as a basic living allowance.”

    In other words, he was given a tiny fine. And who pays his fine? Not him. Us. The British taxpayer

    The British taxpayer is paying the fines of invading foreigners who assault British police officers on British streets. Still, now he has to stay home a bit more. A home we have given him, which is charged to us
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,544

    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    That slice of the electorate is pretty niche, IMHO.

    I'm also not sure there's much evidence for it being true.

    It's a form of snobbery.
    Snobbery is why it probably is true.

    At the last boundary review, the border between Romford and Hornchurch & Upminster was tidied up a bit. House prices were cited in a number of objections from people who didn't want to be moved into Romford.
    There's a story about a road on the Surrey-Hampshire border where house prices are a bit higher on the Surrey side. Not sure if it's true, though.
    No idea if it applies on that border, but given you can have different council taxes that vary by several hundred or more per year, for what to the specific homeowner are effectively similar services, the prices of similar homes on the same road should sometimes vary well into five figures by simply being in a different council area, let alone county.
    I reckon the number of people who look at council tax rates when buying a house is small.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,001
    Pro_Rata said:

    Eabhal said:

    Stuff like this makes me think the Conservative floor is pretty solid. There is a sort of self-respect that will stop people voting for Reform - or at least Farage.

    We used to talk about Tory / Labour floor being 30%, now we are talking about it being 20%.....
    The only floor is 0%
    I wonder a lot about the floors. I think the only floor is on the part of the electorate looking for sensible parties to do sensible things, and I reckon that does form a slight majority.

    That does not mean they will always find sensible options to vote for, or always vote the 'sensible' way. It does not mean that they don't think, like Leon, that a paradigm shift is not needed, just that such a shift should be filtered and led by serious, sensible people.

    I feel Reform at current attracts very little of this sensible vote. The UK doesn't immediately feel that this sensible vote isn't going to split mainly Con / Lab with a bit of Lib Dem, and under those circumstances the floors are likely to be Con 20%, Labour around 16% as seen in much of Europe, and combined slightly higher still.

    The existential danger to Lab / Con comes when the sensible vote deserts the traditional, as happened with Macron in France, as happened with the long term project to paint AN / FdI as the sensible right of centre option in Italy. I don't see what happens in the UK to cause that shift.
    Could you write that in English? Ta
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,225
    edited 7:37AM

    Foxy said:

    I think there is potential for Labour to squeeze the Tory vote tactically. They do in Scotland to defeat the Nats.

    In less than 24 hours we will know.

    I think Lab hold is probably value on current odds, Merseyside always seems less Reformy than other bits of the North.

    Greens to beat LDs at evens is my other bet. The Corbynite Greens won't vote tactically.

    I was out with many Labour friends last weekend. Solid, centrist Labour people and even they are largely disillusioned with the government.

    I have no doubt that some people will tactically vote Labour to stop Reform. But I would expect the Labour vote to be unenthusiastic at best, vs a fuker army very enthusiastic.
    Yep, that's the way I see it. Its the enthusiasm gap that will do for Labour imv. Who is going to rush out to vote for Starmer and Reeves?
  • eekeek Posts: 29,799
    nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is certainly true that Reform now attract the white working class vote that used to vote Labour. So there may well be some snobbishness from some middle class voters about them.

    It is not impossible therefore that a certain type of Hyacinth Bucket lady voter who would not normally vote anything but Tory (or at a push LD locally as they mend the potholes and stop developers spoiling their views) might hold their nose and vote Starmer Labour for the first time to stop a Reform MP lowering the tone of their area and their house prices. Most Tory voters though, especially straight white male Tory voters, would vote Reform over Labour if they were the top 2 choices in the seat they lived in

    I’d vote Tory to help stop Reform and you know I don’t say that lightly given my political persuasion !
    The next election is very likely to be Reform v AN Other because as I've continually said a lot of people don't so much vote for a party to win, they vote for a particular party to not win so will pick the party best placed to keep the Tories / Labour / Reform out (delete as appropriate).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,281
    Nigelb said:

    Is that true these days ?

    Reliability is directly correlated with component count

    Twin engine aeroplanes have more failures than single engine planes

    Transformers have perhaps the lowest component count possible
  • eekeek Posts: 29,799
    Leon said:

    Stuff like this guarantees a Reform victory. And it’s daily


    "Small boat migrant avoids jail after punching female police officers

    "Ethiopian asylum seeker had to be dragged off one of his victims by a member of the public, court hears"

    Tariku Hadgu, 21, was told by a judge his brain “is not fully formed” and he would be imprisoned if he committed another offence."

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1917550305866117239?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Got to say - that should have been immediate jail and out of the country.

    However the sentence was only 16 weeks so I can see why it's ended up being suspended but boy does it look bad.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,187
    edited 7:38AM
    Sean_F said:

    Those ward-level projections for Politics UK are very interesting.

    The Conservatives are in the most trouble. They're getting hit by the Lib Dems in posh heartland areas, and by Reform in poorer heartland areas. The Lib Dems have a clear core vote of posh people. Reform are winning working, and lower-middle class people outside Core Cities. Labour have university seats, seats with lots of professional public sector workers, and areas with big BAME populations. It's honestly hard to see what section of the population the Conservatives are now appealing to. The 2019-24 government's approach, of focusing their appeal on retired people who favour high levels of immigration, has killed off their base.

    Labour are also in trouble. Reform are sweeping through their old heartlands (Durham, industrial Northumberland, Doncaster, Burnley, the Lancashire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Staffordshire, ex-mining, industrial areas). That in turn, suggests they'll sweep through South Wales, Greater Manchester, South Yorkshire, next year. Labour are saved by their new heartlands (see above). Reform are simply sweeping up more support than UKIP ever did, and since nothing succeeds like success, they are coming over as a lot more professional.

    IMHO, Reform will take Runcorn fairly easily. People kick the government in by-elections.

    The Tory base now is rural areas and seats with lots of retired people and there are enough of such seats voting today in the largely provincial, shire based county council elections for them to win enough seats to stay in the top 2 on councillors won and maybe despite losses even stay top (given Reform heavy Essex and Norfolk for example have had their elections cancelled while they move to unitaries). To get anywhere near winning most seats again though and let alone to have a majority they have to also win back commuter belt and market town seats which now mainly have Labour or LD MPs and certainly so if they cannot win over the redwall seats which Boris won in 2019 and 2021 but went Labour at the GE and are now leaning Reform
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,665
    nico67 said:

    Find Out Now show Reform leading in London and their combined share with the Tories of 44% .

    Not buying that and they don’t publish their weighting’s . They’re likely to be having to weight their results heavily as with just one day of fieldwork you’re going to struggle to fill your quotas .

    If they have Reform winning Tower Hamlets - beware!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,187
    edited 7:40AM
    nico67 said:

    Best thing for house prices is to get a Waitrose to open up in your area !

    And a Gail's and then a LD MP, probably in that order
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,322

    Interesting point from Jeremy Bowen on Ukraine, anti Americanism (or at least POTUS) has rocketed there. Pre Trump inauguration 21% of Ukes saw a Trump-led US as bad for Ukraine, now it’s 70% plus.
    I wonder if any of the PB ‘Trump will be ok for UKR’ guys have been on a similar journey?

    Have they got the minerals to do that?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,526
    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    Best thing for house prices is to get a Waitrose to open up in your area !

    And a Gail's and then a LD MP, probably in that order
    You know it makes sense
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,850
    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    kjh said:

    I've just read that Gatwick airport management are putting up the drop off charge to 7quid from 2 May. There is no possible justification apart from some bullshit about the eco footprint bollocks so often spoken about.
    If Gatwick was worried about it's eco footprintbolocks they'd reduce the no of flights not try for a second runway.
    The whole business is shambolic and designed to fleece the traveller.

    You get 2 hrs pick up and drop off at the long stay foc and the airport buses are every few minutes and only take a few minutes so it is a bit of an unnecessary luxury to be delivered or picked up directly from the terminal to be honest.
    I would have put the charge up even further. People complaining about this probably have a bad case of CarBrain, they can't comprehend doing anything but using a car to drive right to the door of the place they need to be.
    I normally get the train to Gatwick, unless I have a particularly early flight - and I tend not to book those. Partly because I can't get there, partly because getting up in the middle of the night starts a trip on a bum note
    The couple of times I’ve had an early flight from Gatwick it’s been travel down the night before and the premier inn by the airport isn’t that expensive in the scheme of things
    I shall be getting a neighbour to drop me at the petrol station and walk the 100 yds or so to the escalator. SCREW Gatwick who are putting up the charge to make them look green. It's Ed Milibandism and they can get stuffed.
    With all due respect, they are simply invoking the name of Milliband to justify raising prices.
    So are all most corporate green initiatives. Robbing the poor and claiming you're doing it for the future of the planet. Nice work if you can get it.
    Stop being so ridiculous. The highest income decile fly 5-8x as much as the lowest (and that's just number of trips), and drive 3x as much. The top 1% account for over 20% of all flights.

    Given the outsize impact of air travel on the emissions, a tax on people driving to the airport is as about as fair an environmental tax that I can think of. Miliband should introduce it while cutting domestic electricity taxes, which have an inverse distributional impact.
    If they want to help people on lower incomes then they should axe standing charges and bundle infra costs into the KWh rate. Poor people get punished for using less energy because of if standing charges. Aiui the idiot is doing the opposite and lumping more tax surcharges into the standing charge which will disproportionately effect low income households.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,001
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Stuff like this guarantees a Reform victory. And it’s daily


    "Small boat migrant avoids jail after punching female police officers

    "Ethiopian asylum seeker had to be dragged off one of his victims by a member of the public, court hears"

    Tariku Hadgu, 21, was told by a judge his brain “is not fully formed” and he would be imprisoned if he committed another offence."

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1917550305866117239?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Got to say - that should have been immediate jail and out of the country.

    However the sentence was only 16 weeks so I can see why it's ended up being suspended but boy does it look bad.
    And you paid his fine
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,888
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Stuff like this guarantees a Reform victory. And it’s daily


    "Small boat migrant avoids jail after punching female police officers

    "Ethiopian asylum seeker had to be dragged off one of his victims by a member of the public, court hears"

    Tariku Hadgu, 21, was told by a judge his brain “is not fully formed” and he would be imprisoned if he committed another offence."

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1917550305866117239?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Got to say - that should have been immediate jail and out of the country.

    However the sentence was only 16 weeks so I can see why it's ended up being suspended but boy does it look bad.
    Assuming all the facts are as detailed why immediate jail...just straight out the country, it is probably more of a punishment than jail in any case and doesn't cost us badly needed space in a jail nor the cost of keeping him there
  • vikvik Posts: 287

    Are Elections Canada still verifying and validating votes?

    Ladbrokes still haven't paid out on Liberal Minority.

    They were validating until yesterday. The Liberals gained another seat from BQ & are now at 169.

    I don't know if they've completed all the counting now, or not.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,187
    edited 7:48AM
    Pro_Rata said:

    Eabhal said:

    Stuff like this makes me think the Conservative floor is pretty solid. There is a sort of self-respect that will stop people voting for Reform - or at least Farage.

    We used to talk about Tory / Labour floor being 30%, now we are talking about it being 20%.....
    The only floor is 0%
    I wonder a lot about the floors. I think the only floor is on the part of the electorate looking for sensible parties to do sensible things, and I reckon that does form a slight majority.

    That does not mean they will always find sensible options to vote for, or always vote the 'sensible' way. It does not mean that they don't think, like Leon, that a paradigm shift is not needed, just that such a shift should be filtered and led by serious, sensible people.

    I feel Reform at current attracts very little of this sensible vote. The UK doesn't immediately feel that this sensible vote isn't going to split mainly Con / Lab with a bit of Lib Dem, and under those circumstances the floors are likely to be Con 20%, Labour around 16% as seen in much of Europe, and combined slightly higher still.

    The existential danger to Lab / Con comes when the sensible vote deserts the traditional, as happened with Macron in France, as happened with the long term project to paint AN / FdI as the sensible right of centre option in Italy. I don't see what happens in the UK to cause that shift.
    Though in France of course the centre right went into government with Macron's liberal Renaissance party when LR Barnier became Macron's PM to keep out the far right Le Pen and her party and the far left Melenchon and his block. In Germany the centre right CDU are now in government with the centre left SPD to keep out the nationalist far right AfD.

    In Italy centre right Forza Italia on the other hand are in government with Meloni's populist right FdI, so if that did happen we could see some interesting governing coalitions
  • I had to Google Gail's, having never heard of it before. It's Greggs for posh people?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,322

    I had to Google Gail's, having never heard of it before. It's Greggs for posh people?

    Yes.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,511
    A pretty good article by Baldwin.

    Starmer's mistake though isn't one or two policies that are affecting almost no one but that he doesn't know how to set the weather. The British like a leader who leads

    Half the time he looks like he's following farage and half following Trump. Meanwhile there's a large centre ground that only Ed Davey seems interested in.

    He has two opportunities staring him in the face. One is the EU full on. The more opposition from the Telegrah The Mail and the Express the better. Make the Tories and Reform look like the reactionaries they are. They are pathologically against but by at least 60/40 the voters are not.

    The second is moral leadership which does not involve ramming his head up Trumps backside. The pendulum is swinging wildly in America at the moment and as in the Vietnam days the Universities are pointing the way

    So Insttead of sending Rayner to say how appalling anti Semitism is on the 80th anniversary of Bergen Belsen he should have got her to ask what the world has learnt in those 80 years.

    And to have had the courage and leadership to point out that the number of deaths in Bergen Belsen in 4 years precisely matches the number of Palestinians who have lost their lives to the Israels in less than 2......
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,210
    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    kjh said:

    I've just read that Gatwick airport management are putting up the drop off charge to 7quid from 2 May. There is no possible justification apart from some bullshit about the eco footprint bollocks so often spoken about.
    If Gatwick was worried about it's eco footprintbolocks they'd reduce the no of flights not try for a second runway.
    The whole business is shambolic and designed to fleece the traveller.

    You get 2 hrs pick up and drop off at the long stay foc and the airport buses are every few minutes and only take a few minutes so it is a bit of an unnecessary luxury to be delivered or picked up directly from the terminal to be honest.
    I would have put the charge up even further. People complaining about this probably have a bad case of CarBrain, they can't comprehend doing anything but using a car to drive right to the door of the place they need to be.
    I normally get the train to Gatwick, unless I have a particularly early flight - and I tend not to book those. Partly because I can't get there, partly because getting up in the middle of the night starts a trip on a bum note
    The couple of times I’ve had an early flight from Gatwick it’s been travel down the night before and the premier inn by the airport isn’t that expensive in the scheme of things
    I shall be getting a neighbour to drop me at the petrol station and walk the 100 yds or so to the escalator. SCREW Gatwick who are putting up the charge to make them look green. It's Ed Milibandism and they can get stuffed.
    With all due respect, they are simply invoking the name of Milliband to justify raising prices.
    So are all most corporate green initiatives. Robbing the poor and claiming you're doing it for the future of the planet. Nice work if you can get it.
    Stop being so ridiculous. The highest income decile fly 5-8x as much as the lowest (and that's just number of trips), and drive 3x as much. The top 1% account for over 20% of all flights.

    Given the outsize impact of air travel on the emissions, a tax on people driving to the airport is as about as fair an environmental tax that I can think of. Miliband should introduce it while cutting domestic electricity taxes, which have an inverse distributional impact.
    If they want to help people on lower incomes then they should axe standing charges and bundle infra costs into the KWh rate. Poor people get punished for using less energy because of if standing charges. Aiui the idiot is doing the opposite and lumping more tax surcharges into the standing charge which will disproportionately effect low income households.
    I agree, and to be fair on the government OFGEM are consulting on it at the moment. They should just do it.
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