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When the shit hits the tan – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,414
edited April 9 in General
When the shit hits the tan – politicalbetting.com

When it comes to winning elections in America, it’s the economy, stupid, which is why I thought Donald Trump would win last year given his lead on the economic questions so these findings are important for the midterms and the 2028 election.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,263
    First!
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 1,000
    Whats wrong with Benedict Arnold - his Omelettes are lovely!
  • What a headline! Nice work!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,828
    edited April 9
    Trump doesn't care about his ratings now though, as he can't run in '28.

    He basically has two years to do scorched earth and burn everything down before the Dems obviously win the mid-terms and neuter him (to some degree) for his final two years...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,263
    GIN1138 said:

    Trump doesn't care about his rating now though, as he can't run in '28.

    He basically has two years to do scorched earth and burn everything down before the Dems obviously win the mid-terms and neuter him (to some degree) for his final two years...

    Could there be such a backlash that the Dems (or Dems + anti-Trump Rep) take a 2/3 majority in the Senate? Then the shit could really hit the Orange Man.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,032
    edited April 9
    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,852
    edited April 9
    Something I noticed on here too

    Quite the weirdest thing about the supposed “elite regret” at voting for Trump is that he really could not have done more to demonstrate how unsuited he is to any position of responsibility still less one of huge power.

    https://bsky.app/profile/seanjones.org/post/3lmf5xp5z4c2h
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,552

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,828

    GIN1138 said:

    Trump doesn't care about his rating now though, as he can't run in '28.

    He basically has two years to do scorched earth and burn everything down before the Dems obviously win the mid-terms and neuter him (to some degree) for his final two years...

    Could there be such a backlash that the Dems (or Dems + anti-Trump Rep) take a 2/3 majority in the Senate? Then the shit could really hit the Orange Man.
    It could do but the history of recent impeachments isn't encouraging is it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,552
    On topic, Almaty Kazakhstan is the most surprisingly agreeable city I’ve visited in - fuck knows how long. A decade? More? Ever?

    Good food, great bars, young people, no fucking “religion”, major mountains, loads of booze, big party people, really safe, surrounded by amazing scenery, yet also respectful polite and kind

    So if the shit hits the tan? - PB - this is where we all go. Or Uruguay
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,828

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
    Yes, because Trump is such a good advert for having an executive President instead of a figurehead monarch.
    TSE is just hankering for President Cameron... But we'd probably end up with president Boris :D
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 1,000
    Weather unreal for campaigning for the County Council elections in South Leicestershire villages. 1,200 addressed Postal Voter letters delivered. they represent 2000 people 17.5% of the total. But in last district election - for the whole district with a turnout of about 30-35%, 62% of postal votes were returned. 3% (300) of them were rejected for various reasons and another 62 arrived too late.

    Main leaflet delivery has started - have seen a few Tory leaflets and the Greens but they had delivered them in the wrong division!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,182
    DavidL said:

    The yield on 30 year UK gilts is now 5.22%, the highest since 1998.

    This blows any fiscal rules Reeves was talking about completely out of the water. It is not even close. Borrowing at this rate or even turning over maturing gilts is really going to hurt. We are going to need huge cuts in spending and huge increases in taxation to reduce our future borrowing. Any ideas of borrowing for investment now have brutal levels of return required to justify.

    This is what happens when you allow debt to rise to 100% of GDP. You are utterly dependent on the kindness and common sense of others. And there is not a lot of either around.

    UK gilts are a mystery to me.
    The market is pricing the UK as riskier than pretty much any other G7 country, but why?

    It has one of the lower debt levels, even at the 100% rate.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 854

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
    There's wishful thinking, there's talking your own book and then there's this :D
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,828
    DavidL said:

    The yield on 30 year UK gilts is now 5.22%, the highest since 1998.

    This blows any fiscal rules Reeves was talking about completely out of the water. It is not even close. Borrowing at this rate or even turning over maturing gilts is really going to hurt. We are going to need huge cuts in spending and huge increases in taxation to reduce our future borrowing. Any ideas of borrowing for investment now have brutal levels of return required to justify.

    This is what happens when you allow debt to rise to 100% of GDP. You are utterly dependent on the kindness and common sense of others. And there is not a lot of either around.

    I remember 1998 (and the period generally from 1997 to around 2002) as being generally "good times" for the UK. What happened to cause 30 year gilts to go so high, then?

    I assume we navigated it without too many problems due the excellent economy that was bequeathed to Labour?
  • PJHPJH Posts: 800
    Icarus said:

    Weather unreal for campaigning for the County Council elections in South Leicestershire villages. 1,200 addressed Postal Voter letters delivered. they represent 2000 people 17.5% of the total. But in last district election - for the whole district with a turnout of about 30-35%, 62% of postal votes were returned. 3% (300) of them were rejected for various reasons and another 62 arrived too late.

    Main leaflet delivery has started - have seen a few Tory leaflets and the Greens but they had delivered them in the wrong division!

    I have had two leaflets through my door in the last month, presumably in anticipation of next year's London Borough elections. From both Tory and Labour. Both for the neighbouring ward!

    (In fairness the other side of the road is in that ward...)

    As I've had nothing in over 2 years from the Residents' Association who hold 2 of 3 seats in my ward, it suggests that the boundaries are not well understood!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,576

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
    Oh dear, how sad, never mind...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,701
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I HAVE RENTED A CAR TO DRIVE AROUND KAZAKHSTAN

    Really hope I don't regret this

    We will give you an interesting eulogy.
    There are lots of warnings about driving here

    But the way I see it, Kazakhstan can't be worse than - or even as bad as - Armenia. Driving in Armenia is insanely scary and perilous, and I did that for a week - including a rush hour dash through the centre of Yerevan to reach the airport. Oh my fucking god

    I came through that, I can do Kazakhstan
    A Moldovan business associate of mine does business in Kazakhstan. I've presented to Kazak businessmen with him. It sounds like a fascinating country!
    I've only seen Almaty - so far

    But Almaty is good fun. There isn't much to do, but that's part of the appeal. No pressure to do sight seeing

    It's a weirdly laid back, youthful, languid, surprisingly prosperous old Soviet City, ennobled by the great Tien Shan mountains right next door

    The people are fun loving and friendly, they like a drink, there is zero religious madness

    It is also fucking huge. I was sorely tempted to drive to Semipelatinsk to go see the old Soviet nuke testing sight. Looked near on the map. Must have tons of Dark Noom?!

    Turns out it's an 18 HOUR drive. Everything is 18 hours away, Apart from the Tien Shan and some canyons which I'm gonna go see tomorrow
    One of the things I've found almost universal is that the places that broke away from the Soviet Union feel so much more prosperous than those that stayed.
    That's a nice line, but it isn't true

    The Baltics are doing really well (but they joined the EU and as a consequence lost 1/3 of their populations, was it worth it?)

    Azerbaijan is doing fine - but that's oil

    Armenia is an impoverished dump

    Uzbekistan is poor

    Ukraine was poor, now even poorer

    Georgia is OK but war-torn

    Kazakhstan is quite well off

    Kyrgyzstan is poor

    There are too many variables to make your statement
    The Baltics are certainly doing well, despite everything. However the fall in population did not really come as a result of their accession to the EU. It happened in the 1940s.

    In 1938, in Estonia for example the population was 1.3 million, of which 88% were Estonian, with Russians being about 7% of the population. By 1989 the population was 1.5 million of which Estonians were only a bare 60%. Roughly one third of the pre war population was shot, sent to the camps or fled. The gap was filled in the 1960s and 1970s mostly by Russians.

    After independence was restored in 1991, the Russians that were part of the Soviet military had all left by 1994. Russian pensioners that retired to the Baltic (still a much higher standard of living than the rest of the USSR even after 40 years of occupation) also began to die off. Finally other Russian speakers also disproportionately emigrated, So today the population is 1.3 million and Estonians are 69% of the population. Of course both Russians and Estonians have taken advantage of the new freedom to travel, but for the last 5 years the population has been increasing.
    This way of counting the population would be regarded as very far right if you applied it to Britain.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,777
    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,552

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
    There's wishful thinking, there's talking your own book and then there's this :D
    Harsh but fair.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099

    DavidL said:

    The yield on 30 year UK gilts is now 5.22%, the highest since 1998.

    This blows any fiscal rules Reeves was talking about completely out of the water. It is not even close. Borrowing at this rate or even turning over maturing gilts is really going to hurt. We are going to need huge cuts in spending and huge increases in taxation to reduce our future borrowing. Any ideas of borrowing for investment now have brutal levels of return required to justify.

    This is what happens when you allow debt to rise to 100% of GDP. You are utterly dependent on the kindness and common sense of others. And there is not a lot of either around.

    UK gilts are a mystery to me.
    The market is pricing the UK as riskier than pretty much any other G7 country, but why?

    It has one of the lower debt levels, even at the 100% rate.
    I think it is back to the no free lunch idea. We were more “creative” with our QE than most and the markets do not forget that. It was a default in all but name and many investors lost out big time. We also have a very strong tendency to vote for governments promising far more than we produce to the public who feel entitled.
    Both make us a bad credit risk.

    I am struggling to see a way out of this without more QE tbh. Our financial situation is so bad and we are running out of things to sell.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,132
    Leon said:

    On topic, Almaty Kazakhstan is the most surprisingly agreeable city I’ve visited in - fuck knows how long. A decade? More? Ever?

    Good food, great bars, young people, no fucking “religion”, major mountains, loads of booze, big party people, really safe, surrounded by amazing scenery, yet also respectful polite and kind

    So if the shit hits the tan? - PB - this is where we all go. Or Uruguay

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/kazakhstan
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,134

    DavidL said:

    The yield on 30 year UK gilts is now 5.22%, the highest since 1998.

    This blows any fiscal rules Reeves was talking about completely out of the water. It is not even close. Borrowing at this rate or even turning over maturing gilts is really going to hurt. We are going to need huge cuts in spending and huge increases in taxation to reduce our future borrowing. Any ideas of borrowing for investment now have brutal levels of return required to justify.

    This is what happens when you allow debt to rise to 100% of GDP. You are utterly dependent on the kindness and common sense of others. And there is not a lot of either around.

    UK gilts are a mystery to me.
    The market is pricing the UK as riskier than pretty much any other G7 country, but why?

    It has one of the lower debt levels, even at the 100% rate.
    Lack of confidence in Reeves and Labour staying the course?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,552

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
    Yes, because Trump is such a good advert for having an executive President instead of a figurehead monarch.
    There’s a reason why Trump is acting like a monarch!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,134
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The yield on 30 year UK gilts is now 5.22%, the highest since 1998.

    This blows any fiscal rules Reeves was talking about completely out of the water. It is not even close. Borrowing at this rate or even turning over maturing gilts is really going to hurt. We are going to need huge cuts in spending and huge increases in taxation to reduce our future borrowing. Any ideas of borrowing for investment now have brutal levels of return required to justify.

    This is what happens when you allow debt to rise to 100% of GDP. You are utterly dependent on the kindness and common sense of others. And there is not a lot of either around.

    UK gilts are a mystery to me.
    The market is pricing the UK as riskier than pretty much any other G7 country, but why?

    It has one of the lower debt levels, even at the 100% rate.
    I think it is back to the no free lunch idea. We were more “creative” with our QE than most and the markets do not forget that. It was a default in all but name and many investors lost out big time. We also have a very strong tendency to vote for governments promising far more than we produce to the public who feel entitled.
    Both make us a bad credit risk.

    I am struggling to see a way out of this without more QE tbh. Our financial situation is so bad and we are running out of things to sell.
    No more QE.

    We have to qualify social welfare and NHS spending more, I'm afraid - where most public money goes.

    And, no, it won't be popular.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,552

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
    Ludicrous. Lisa Nandy is right

    During a time of global, political, demographical turmoil the British people will cling to their ancient, revered, Christian Royal Family, as never before
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,828
    edited April 9

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    Isn't "retaliation" the wrong thing though? By retaliating the whole thing just spirals and escalates. We'll soon reach the point where global trade just seizes up entirely and then what? Global Depression?

    I think in trying to de-escalate, Starmer is right but the rest of the world isn't listening so his efforts look futile...
  • CollegeCollege Posts: 42
    edited April 9
    Vance using the 25th is pie in the sky unless Trump goes full-on James Forrestal. The Dems are unlikely to win two-thirds of the Senate, and anyway that's too long to wait.

    He's reportedly planning a 4-mile long military parade, longer than all others in the USA except for victory parades in 1865 and 1946.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKu-u-W5J84
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099
    GIN1138 said:

    DavidL said:

    The yield on 30 year UK gilts is now 5.22%, the highest since 1998.

    This blows any fiscal rules Reeves was talking about completely out of the water. It is not even close. Borrowing at this rate or even turning over maturing gilts is really going to hurt. We are going to need huge cuts in spending and huge increases in taxation to reduce our future borrowing. Any ideas of borrowing for investment now have brutal levels of return required to justify.

    This is what happens when you allow debt to rise to 100% of GDP. You are utterly dependent on the kindness and common sense of others. And there is not a lot of either around.

    I remember 1998 (and the period generally from 1997 to around 2002) as being generally "good times" for the UK. What happened to cause 30 year gilts to go so high, then?

    I assume we navigated it without too many problems due the excellent economy that was bequeathed to Labour?
    Inflation was higher so the real rate was a lot lower than the nominal rate. In most of the 90’s I was paying up to 14% on my mortgage but my nominal wages were growing every bit as fast so it was ok.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,034
    @atrupar.com‬

    Neguse demolishes Arrington's hypocrisy: "When the stock market dropped 1k points years ago, you rushed to bemoan Biden's actions. You condemned it. Now the market drops 1k points every day for the last week and you claim it's the economy running well. Do you understand why that's a tough argument?"

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmfap7nobs2y
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,132
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The yield on 30 year UK gilts is now 5.22%, the highest since 1998.

    This blows any fiscal rules Reeves was talking about completely out of the water. It is not even close. Borrowing at this rate or even turning over maturing gilts is really going to hurt. We are going to need huge cuts in spending and huge increases in taxation to reduce our future borrowing. Any ideas of borrowing for investment now have brutal levels of return required to justify.

    This is what happens when you allow debt to rise to 100% of GDP. You are utterly dependent on the kindness and common sense of others. And there is not a lot of either around.

    UK gilts are a mystery to me.
    The market is pricing the UK as riskier than pretty much any other G7 country, but why?

    It has one of the lower debt levels, even at the 100% rate.
    I think it is back to the no free lunch idea. We were more “creative” with our QE than most and the markets do not forget that. It was a default in all but name and many investors lost out big time. We also have a very strong tendency to vote for governments promising far more than we produce to the public who feel entitled.
    Both make us a bad credit risk.

    I am struggling to see a way out of this without more QE tbh. Our financial situation is so bad and we are running out of things to sell.
    So let's do more QE. Or, as I think it was @Luckyguy1983 suggests, stop sterilising the existing QE. Surely force majeure applies in the event of an insane American President.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,828
    DavidL said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DavidL said:

    The yield on 30 year UK gilts is now 5.22%, the highest since 1998.

    This blows any fiscal rules Reeves was talking about completely out of the water. It is not even close. Borrowing at this rate or even turning over maturing gilts is really going to hurt. We are going to need huge cuts in spending and huge increases in taxation to reduce our future borrowing. Any ideas of borrowing for investment now have brutal levels of return required to justify.

    This is what happens when you allow debt to rise to 100% of GDP. You are utterly dependent on the kindness and common sense of others. And there is not a lot of either around.

    I remember 1998 (and the period generally from 1997 to around 2002) as being generally "good times" for the UK. What happened to cause 30 year gilts to go so high, then?

    I assume we navigated it without too many problems due the excellent economy that was bequeathed to Labour?
    Inflation was higher so the real rate was a lot lower than the nominal rate. In most of the 90’s I was paying up to 14% on my mortgage but my nominal wages were growing every bit as fast so it was ok.

    Ah right, I see. 👍
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,134
    Leon said:

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
    Ludicrous. Lisa Nandy is right

    During a time of global, political, demographical turmoil the British people will cling to their ancient, revered, Christian Royal Family, as never before
    It's his job to drive traffic to the site. And click bait like this will.

    We're not supposed to take it seriously.
  • GIN1138 said:

    DavidL said:

    The yield on 30 year UK gilts is now 5.22%, the highest since 1998.

    This blows any fiscal rules Reeves was talking about completely out of the water. It is not even close. Borrowing at this rate or even turning over maturing gilts is really going to hurt. We are going to need huge cuts in spending and huge increases in taxation to reduce our future borrowing. Any ideas of borrowing for investment now have brutal levels of return required to justify.

    This is what happens when you allow debt to rise to 100% of GDP. You are utterly dependent on the kindness and common sense of others. And there is not a lot of either around.

    I remember 1998 (and the period generally from 1997 to around 2002) as being generally "good times" for the UK. What happened to cause 30 year gilts to go so high, then?

    I assume we navigated it without too many problems due the excellent economy that was bequeathed to Labour?
    Not sure that's what's being said. It was just normal to have higher long term interest rates pre- 9/11 ?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099
    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The yield on 30 year UK gilts is now 5.22%, the highest since 1998.

    This blows any fiscal rules Reeves was talking about completely out of the water. It is not even close. Borrowing at this rate or even turning over maturing gilts is really going to hurt. We are going to need huge cuts in spending and huge increases in taxation to reduce our future borrowing. Any ideas of borrowing for investment now have brutal levels of return required to justify.

    This is what happens when you allow debt to rise to 100% of GDP. You are utterly dependent on the kindness and common sense of others. And there is not a lot of either around.

    UK gilts are a mystery to me.
    The market is pricing the UK as riskier than pretty much any other G7 country, but why?

    It has one of the lower debt levels, even at the 100% rate.
    I think it is back to the no free lunch idea. We were more “creative” with our QE than most and the markets do not forget that. It was a default in all but name and many investors lost out big time. We also have a very strong tendency to vote for governments promising far more than we produce to the public who feel entitled.
    Both make us a bad credit risk.

    I am struggling to see a way out of this without more QE tbh. Our financial situation is so bad and we are running out of things to sell.
    So let's do more QE. Or, as I think it was @Luckyguy1983 suggests, stop sterilising the existing QE. Surely force majeure applies in the event of an insane American President.
    As I have already said I think that we are running out of alternatives but there is a price to be paid and that will be even higher borrowing costs in future. And very probably a further fall in Sterling and more imported inflation.

    If anyone has any better ideas I would love to read them.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,134

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I HAVE RENTED A CAR TO DRIVE AROUND KAZAKHSTAN

    Really hope I don't regret this

    We will give you an interesting eulogy.
    There are lots of warnings about driving here

    But the way I see it, Kazakhstan can't be worse than - or even as bad as - Armenia. Driving in Armenia is insanely scary and perilous, and I did that for a week - including a rush hour dash through the centre of Yerevan to reach the airport. Oh my fucking god

    I came through that, I can do Kazakhstan
    A Moldovan business associate of mine does business in Kazakhstan. I've presented to Kazak businessmen with him. It sounds like a fascinating country!
    I've only seen Almaty - so far

    But Almaty is good fun. There isn't much to do, but that's part of the appeal. No pressure to do sight seeing

    It's a weirdly laid back, youthful, languid, surprisingly prosperous old Soviet City, ennobled by the great Tien Shan mountains right next door

    The people are fun loving and friendly, they like a drink, there is zero religious madness

    It is also fucking huge. I was sorely tempted to drive to Semipelatinsk to go see the old Soviet nuke testing sight. Looked near on the map. Must have tons of Dark Noom?!

    Turns out it's an 18 HOUR drive. Everything is 18 hours away, Apart from the Tien Shan and some canyons which I'm gonna go see tomorrow
    One of the things I've found almost universal is that the places that broke away from the Soviet Union feel so much more prosperous than those that stayed.
    That's a nice line, but it isn't true

    The Baltics are doing really well (but they joined the EU and as a consequence lost 1/3 of their populations, was it worth it?)

    Azerbaijan is doing fine - but that's oil

    Armenia is an impoverished dump

    Uzbekistan is poor

    Ukraine was poor, now even poorer

    Georgia is OK but war-torn

    Kazakhstan is quite well off

    Kyrgyzstan is poor

    There are too many variables to make your statement
    The Baltics are certainly doing well, despite everything. However the fall in population did not really come as a result of their accession to the EU. It happened in the 1940s.

    In 1938, in Estonia for example the population was 1.3 million, of which 88% were Estonian, with Russians being about 7% of the population. By 1989 the population was 1.5 million of which Estonians were only a bare 60%. Roughly one third of the pre war population was shot, sent to the camps or fled. The gap was filled in the 1960s and 1970s mostly by Russians.

    After independence was restored in 1991, the Russians that were part of the Soviet military had all left by 1994. Russian pensioners that retired to the Baltic (still a much higher standard of living than the rest of the USSR even after 40 years of occupation) also began to die off. Finally other Russian speakers also disproportionately emigrated, So today the population is 1.3 million and Estonians are 69% of the population. Of course both Russians and Estonians have taken advantage of the new freedom to travel, but for the last 5 years the population has been increasing.
    This way of counting the population would be regarded as very far right if you applied it to Britain.
    In Britain, anything is far right unless it's done by the right people - in which case it no longer is.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,839
    The problem for Trump is he is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

    Even Biden imposed some tariffs on Chinese imports to stop dumping but Trump imposing extra tariffs on virtually every other nation's exports to the US is just going to lead to the biggest trade war since the 1930s.

    He just has to hope more new manufacturing jobs are created and more buy American to offset rising import costs
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,954
    GIN1138 said:

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
    Yes, because Trump is such a good advert for having an executive President instead of a figurehead monarch.
    TSE is just hankering for President Cameron... But we'd probably end up with president Boris :D
    Nah, Rowling defeats Lineker by 52% to 48% for the Presidency.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,434
    Icarus said:

    Whats wrong with Benedict Arnold - his Omelettes are lovely!

    Arnold, of course, defected to the British after the US invaded Canada...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,839

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
    What absolute rubbish, for starters Trump is head of state of a REPUBLIC.

    If anything the election of Trump shows precisely how much better constitutional monarchies are and it was of course Starmer who invited Trump in reality, he just asked the King to send the invite
  • BogotaBogota Posts: 119
    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The yield on 30 year UK gilts is now 5.22%, the highest since 1998.

    This blows any fiscal rules Reeves was talking about completely out of the water. It is not even close. Borrowing at this rate or even turning over maturing gilts is really going to hurt. We are going to need huge cuts in spending and huge increases in taxation to reduce our future borrowing. Any ideas of borrowing for investment now have brutal levels of return required to justify.

    This is what happens when you allow debt to rise to 100% of GDP. You are utterly dependent on the kindness and common sense of others. And there is not a lot of either around.

    UK gilts are a mystery to me.
    The market is pricing the UK as riskier than pretty much any other G7 country, but why?

    It has one of the lower debt levels, even at the 100% rate.
    I think it is back to the no free lunch idea. We were more “creative” with our QE than most and the markets do not forget that. It was a default in all but name and many investors lost out big time. We also have a very strong tendency to vote for governments promising far more than we produce to the public who feel entitled.
    Both make us a bad credit risk.

    I am struggling to see a way out of this without more QE tbh. Our financial situation is so bad and we are running out of things to sell.
    So let's do more QE. Or, as I think it was @Luckyguy1983 suggests, stop sterilising the existing QE. Surely force majeure applies in the event of an insane American President.
    Yeah sure. Lets have qe again and inflate property prices even more. Except this time we are in a different era and inflation will likely spike to 20 or 30%
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,434
    GIN1138 said:

    Trump doesn't care about his ratings now though, as he can't run in '28.

    He basically has two years to do scorched earth and burn everything down before the Dems obviously win the mid-terms and neuter him (to some degree) for his final two years...

    Are we quietly pretending the talk of a third term never took place now ?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,777
    GIN1138 said:

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    Isn't "retaliation" the wrong thing though? By retaliating the whole thing just spirals and escalates. We'll soon reach the point where global trade just seizes up entirely and then what? Global Depression?

    I think in trying to de-escalate, Starmer is right but the rest of the world isn't listening so his efforts look futile...
    Trump started this war and as its based on fiction the free world can't meet his terms or anything like them.

    China can crush the American economy and is taking actions to do so. Europe has got its heads together and even "lets negotiate" people like Meloni have agreed to slam MAGA with its own tariffs back the other way. Trump almost certainly will up the ante again and around we turn once more.

    Starmer thinks he can placate Trump. But if he does join the Axis then the price will be trade with notAmerica.

    I understand how developments have confuddled classic right wing Atlantasists. But this isn't America - its Gilead. And I'm right with Ed Davey on this one: Fuck 'em.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,954
    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The yield on 30 year UK gilts is now 5.22%, the highest since 1998.

    This blows any fiscal rules Reeves was talking about completely out of the water. It is not even close. Borrowing at this rate or even turning over maturing gilts is really going to hurt. We are going to need huge cuts in spending and huge increases in taxation to reduce our future borrowing. Any ideas of borrowing for investment now have brutal levels of return required to justify.

    This is what happens when you allow debt to rise to 100% of GDP. You are utterly dependent on the kindness and common sense of others. And there is not a lot of either around.

    UK gilts are a mystery to me.
    The market is pricing the UK as riskier than pretty much any other G7 country, but why?

    It has one of the lower debt levels, even at the 100% rate.
    I think it is back to the no free lunch idea. We were more “creative” with our QE than most and the markets do not forget that. It was a default in all but name and many investors lost out big time. We also have a very strong tendency to vote for governments promising far more than we produce to the public who feel entitled.
    Both make us a bad credit risk.

    I am struggling to see a way out of this without more QE tbh. Our financial situation is so bad and we are running out of things to sell.
    So let's do more QE. Or, as I think it was @Luckyguy1983 suggests, stop sterilising the existing QE. Surely force majeure applies in the event of an insane American President.
    As I have already said I think that we are running out of alternatives but there is a price to be paid and that will be even higher borrowing costs in future. And very probably a further fall in Sterling and more imported inflation.

    If anyone has any better ideas I would love to read them.
    It's not her fiscal rules that Reeves needs to break.
    It's the election promises on not raising certain taxes.
    Those 8.5 million people who can afford £100 a day, or whatever, at a theme park obviously have plenty of spare cash.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,576

    GIN1138 said:

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
    Yes, because Trump is such a good advert for having an executive President instead of a figurehead monarch.
    TSE is just hankering for President Cameron... But we'd probably end up with president Boris :D
    Nah, Rowling defeats Lineker by 52% to 48% for the Presidency.
    I'd be happy with either. Both basically inoffensive, both have a 'side' so will annoy some.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,104
    Nigelb said:

    Icarus said:

    Whats wrong with Benedict Arnold - his Omelettes are lovely!

    Arnold, of course, defected to the British after the US invaded Canada...
    Somewhat later actually, in 1778, after the defeat at Saratoga.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,149
    HYUFD said:

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
    What absolute rubbish, for starters Trump is head of state of a REPUBLIC.

    If anything the election of Trump shows precisely how much better constitutional monarchies are and it was of course Starmer who invited Trump in reality, he just asked the King to send the invite
    A banana republic since 1/20/2025.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,945
    Can anyone explain to me, looking at the markets, why all the European ones are in the red today, down about 3-4%, but the US ones are broadly breakeven.
    It's the US that have imposed tariffs on themselves. Why aren't they tanking?

    Or is it simply expected that the rest of the world (Europe especially) will reduce their prices to offset the tariff cost to the end US consumer/purchaser; and therefore European stocks fall whilst US ones don't?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,385
    College said:

    Vance using the 25th is pie in the sky unless Trump goes full-on James Forrestal. The Dems are unlikely to win two-thirds of the Senate, and anyway that's too long to wait.

    He's reportedly planning a 4-mile long military parade, longer than all others in the USA except for victory parades in 1865 and 1946.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKu-u-W5J84

    4 miles of pissed off, heavily armed Americans... what could go wrong?

    Hubris before Nemesis
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,552
    This is some mighty fine horse
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,434
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Icarus said:

    Whats wrong with Benedict Arnold - his Omelettes are lovely!

    Arnold, of course, defected to the British after the US invaded Canada...
    Somewhat later actually, in 1778, after the defeat at Saratoga.
    Isn't that what after means ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,434
    Leon said:

    This is some mighty fine horse

    So don't kill it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099
    So what we need is an emergency budget.

    That budget should:

    Increase IT by at least 2p
    Introduce Mays plans for funding care from the capital of the patient immediately.
    Start a capital tax.
    End the triple lock.
    Cut public sector wages by something like 10% across the board.
    Cut benefits.
    Restrict pension reliefs.
    Try, somehow , to find some money for investment, probably by subsidising the lending.
    Find the money for increased defence spending.
    Radically shake up our immigration system by granting the right to work to everyone already here and restricting future access.
    Increase fuel duty , taking advantage of lower oil prices.
    And probably a whole lot more deeply unpleasant things besides.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,701
    HYUFD said:

    The problem for Trump is he is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

    Even Biden imposed some tariffs on Chinese imports to stop dumping but Trump imposing extra tariffs on virtually every other nation's exports to the US is just going to lead to the biggest trade war since the 1930s.

    He just has to hope more new manufacturing jobs are created and more buy American to offset rising import costs

    Regardless of the macro picture, there are bound to be micro successes: the small businesses who discover that they don't need to import from China after all, or who successfully recreate supply chains domestically. That will make it much more difficult politically to reverse the Trump trade revolution.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,385

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I HAVE RENTED A CAR TO DRIVE AROUND KAZAKHSTAN

    Really hope I don't regret this

    We will give you an interesting eulogy.
    There are lots of warnings about driving here

    But the way I see it, Kazakhstan can't be worse than - or even as bad as - Armenia. Driving in Armenia is insanely scary and perilous, and I did that for a week - including a rush hour dash through the centre of Yerevan to reach the airport. Oh my fucking god

    I came through that, I can do Kazakhstan
    A Moldovan business associate of mine does business in Kazakhstan. I've presented to Kazak businessmen with him. It sounds like a fascinating country!
    I've only seen Almaty - so far

    But Almaty is good fun. There isn't much to do, but that's part of the appeal. No pressure to do sight seeing

    It's a weirdly laid back, youthful, languid, surprisingly prosperous old Soviet City, ennobled by the great Tien Shan mountains right next door

    The people are fun loving and friendly, they like a drink, there is zero religious madness

    It is also fucking huge. I was sorely tempted to drive to Semipelatinsk to go see the old Soviet nuke testing sight. Looked near on the map. Must have tons of Dark Noom?!

    Turns out it's an 18 HOUR drive. Everything is 18 hours away, Apart from the Tien Shan and some canyons which I'm gonna go see tomorrow
    One of the things I've found almost universal is that the places that broke away from the Soviet Union feel so much more prosperous than those that stayed.
    That's a nice line, but it isn't true

    The Baltics are doing really well (but they joined the EU and as a consequence lost 1/3 of their populations, was it worth it?)

    Azerbaijan is doing fine - but that's oil

    Armenia is an impoverished dump

    Uzbekistan is poor

    Ukraine was poor, now even poorer

    Georgia is OK but war-torn

    Kazakhstan is quite well off

    Kyrgyzstan is poor

    There are too many variables to make your statement
    The Baltics are certainly doing well, despite everything. However the fall in population did not really come as a result of their accession to the EU. It happened in the 1940s.

    In 1938, in Estonia for example the population was 1.3 million, of which 88% were Estonian, with Russians being about 7% of the population. By 1989 the population was 1.5 million of which Estonians were only a bare 60%. Roughly one third of the pre war population was shot, sent to the camps or fled. The gap was filled in the 1960s and 1970s mostly by Russians.

    After independence was restored in 1991, the Russians that were part of the Soviet military had all left by 1994. Russian pensioners that retired to the Baltic (still a much higher standard of living than the rest of the USSR even after 40 years of occupation) also began to die off. Finally other Russian speakers also disproportionately emigrated, So today the population is 1.3 million and Estonians are 69% of the population. Of course both Russians and Estonians have taken advantage of the new freedom to travel, but for the last 5 years the population has been increasing.
    This way of counting the population would be regarded as very far right if you applied it to Britain.
    If you speak Estonian, you are Estonian pretty much, regardless of DNA.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,416

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    No he isn’t. Far from it.

    He’s doing the right thing. Retaliating by imposing tariffs on the US simply hurts the consumer. Let others do it if they want and see if we can benefit.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,198

    Can anyone explain to me, looking at the markets, why all the European ones are in the red today, down about 3-4%, but the US ones are broadly breakeven.
    It's the US that have imposed tariffs on themselves. Why aren't they tanking?

    Or is it simply expected that the rest of the world (Europe especially) will reduce their prices to offset the tariff cost to the end US consumer/purchaser; and therefore European stocks fall whilst US ones don't?

    Different trading hours, give different intraday starting points. Normally fairly irrelevant to changes, but it can swing 10% between the different start/end points at the moment.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,149
    Leon said:

    This is some mighty fine horse

    Big deal. Did you never stop at a French truck stop and partake of the 10f. 3 course meal with a carafe of wine included? What did you think you were eating?
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,416
    edited April 9

    Can anyone explain to me, looking at the markets, why all the European ones are in the red today, down about 3-4%, but the US ones are broadly breakeven.
    It's the US that have imposed tariffs on themselves. Why aren't they tanking?

    Or is it simply expected that the rest of the world (Europe especially) will reduce their prices to offset the tariff cost to the end US consumer/purchaser; and therefore European stocks fall whilst US ones don't?

    There will come a point when the markets won’t fall even on bad news. We’re not there yet, IMHO, but it will come.

    European markets may be digesting the potential impact of so called retaliatory tariffs on its businesses and consumers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,552
    Horse is nice
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,552
    But perhaps only for REAL carnivores



  • isamisam Posts: 41,214
    Starmer’s kids will be 19 & 21 when this theme park opens, if all goes to plan. What are they getting so excited about?

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1909942081193193725?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,416
    Leon said:

    But perhaps only for REAL carnivores



    Did they rest it before serving it ?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099
    Leon said:

    Horse is nice

    No naysayers to that.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,701
    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I HAVE RENTED A CAR TO DRIVE AROUND KAZAKHSTAN

    Really hope I don't regret this

    We will give you an interesting eulogy.
    There are lots of warnings about driving here

    But the way I see it, Kazakhstan can't be worse than - or even as bad as - Armenia. Driving in Armenia is insanely scary and perilous, and I did that for a week - including a rush hour dash through the centre of Yerevan to reach the airport. Oh my fucking god

    I came through that, I can do Kazakhstan
    A Moldovan business associate of mine does business in Kazakhstan. I've presented to Kazak businessmen with him. It sounds like a fascinating country!
    I've only seen Almaty - so far

    But Almaty is good fun. There isn't much to do, but that's part of the appeal. No pressure to do sight seeing

    It's a weirdly laid back, youthful, languid, surprisingly prosperous old Soviet City, ennobled by the great Tien Shan mountains right next door

    The people are fun loving and friendly, they like a drink, there is zero religious madness

    It is also fucking huge. I was sorely tempted to drive to Semipelatinsk to go see the old Soviet nuke testing sight. Looked near on the map. Must have tons of Dark Noom?!

    Turns out it's an 18 HOUR drive. Everything is 18 hours away, Apart from the Tien Shan and some canyons which I'm gonna go see tomorrow
    One of the things I've found almost universal is that the places that broke away from the Soviet Union feel so much more prosperous than those that stayed.
    That's a nice line, but it isn't true

    The Baltics are doing really well (but they joined the EU and as a consequence lost 1/3 of their populations, was it worth it?)

    Azerbaijan is doing fine - but that's oil

    Armenia is an impoverished dump

    Uzbekistan is poor

    Ukraine was poor, now even poorer

    Georgia is OK but war-torn

    Kazakhstan is quite well off

    Kyrgyzstan is poor

    There are too many variables to make your statement
    The Baltics are certainly doing well, despite everything. However the fall in population did not really come as a result of their accession to the EU. It happened in the 1940s.

    In 1938, in Estonia for example the population was 1.3 million, of which 88% were Estonian, with Russians being about 7% of the population. By 1989 the population was 1.5 million of which Estonians were only a bare 60%. Roughly one third of the pre war population was shot, sent to the camps or fled. The gap was filled in the 1960s and 1970s mostly by Russians.

    After independence was restored in 1991, the Russians that were part of the Soviet military had all left by 1994. Russian pensioners that retired to the Baltic (still a much higher standard of living than the rest of the USSR even after 40 years of occupation) also began to die off. Finally other Russian speakers also disproportionately emigrated, So today the population is 1.3 million and Estonians are 69% of the population. Of course both Russians and Estonians have taken advantage of the new freedom to travel, but for the last 5 years the population has been increasing.
    This way of counting the population would be regarded as very far right if you applied it to Britain.
    If you speak Estonian, you are Estonian pretty much, regardless of DNA.
    Other testimonies may vary:

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3hZpq0hrtfg

    Estonia is not so foreigner friendly. There is a certain type of foreigner that is more suited for Estonia and that foreigner is white Caucasian, definitely not somebody from Asia or from Africa.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,650
    GIN1138 said:

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    Isn't "retaliation" the wrong thing though? By retaliating the whole thing just spirals and escalates. We'll soon reach the point where global trade just seizes up entirely and then what? Global Depression?

    I think in trying to de-escalate, Starmer is right but the rest of the world isn't listening so his efforts look futile...
    We don't need a lead from Starmer. We just need a UK-wide boycott of US goods. The Canadians and Danes are showing the way.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,777
    Taz said:

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    No he isn’t. Far from it.

    He’s doing the right thing. Retaliating by imposing tariffs on the US simply hurts the consumer. Let others do it if they want and see if we can benefit.
    We're long past the point where we can choose that as an option. Tariffs *have already been applied* to hurt us. We can't negotiate a Be Nice position from Trump. He needs to be demolished and that means as much pressure being applied as possible.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,198

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    I think he has broadly played it well as have China and the EU. Different strokes for different folks.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,182
    isam said:

    Starmer’s kids will be 19 & 21 when this theme park opens, if all goes to plan. What are they getting so excited about?

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1909942081193193725?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Dunno, but it says a lot about UK dysfunction that the PM is doing a press conference about the opening of a theme park.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,434
    Interesting point on Haas Automation's tariff induced troubles.

    So much in a Haas is from China- control, servos, ball screws, linear ways, most of the spindle… it would not shock me if 104% tariffs have a higher impact on their product than our Japan made machines at a 24%..
    https://x.com/gak_pdx/status/1909760112161702182
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,552

    Leon said:

    This is some mighty fine horse

    Big deal. Did you never stop at a French truck stop and partake of the 10f. 3 course meal with a carafe of wine included? What did you think you were eating?
    1. This is supposedly the best horse - as meat - in the world. No knacked French cart-horse muck here. These horses are the Wagyu of horses - as meat

    Why?

    2. The horse was first domesticated in Kazakhstan - by the Botai people about 4000 years ago. This is where it all began, where we first began breaking them, riding them, then - presumably - eating them. This is like having an oatcake at Gobekli Tepe

    Also, really good chips
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,701

    GIN1138 said:

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    Isn't "retaliation" the wrong thing though? By retaliating the whole thing just spirals and escalates. We'll soon reach the point where global trade just seizes up entirely and then what? Global Depression?

    I think in trying to de-escalate, Starmer is right but the rest of the world isn't listening so his efforts look futile...
    We don't need a lead from Starmer. We just need a UK-wide boycott of US goods. The Canadians and Danes are showing the way.
    A boycott organised on Facebook where we buy alternative goods on Amazon and share tips on WhatsApp.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,198

    Leon said:

    This is some mighty fine horse

    Big deal. Did you never stop at a French truck stop and partake of the 10f. 3 course meal with a carafe of wine included? What did you think you were eating?
    Or any UK readymeal back in 2012.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,182

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    I think he has broadly played it well as have China and the EU. Different strokes for different folks.
    He hasn’t done anything.
    Although that may be the most sensible policy.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,650

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
    Yes, because Trump is such a good advert for having an executive President instead of a figurehead monarch.
    I'm not aware of anyone advocating an executive president in the UK. An elected figurehead, just like Ireland, is what we should have.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,198

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    I think he has broadly played it well as have China and the EU. Different strokes for different folks.
    He hasn’t done anything.
    Although that may be the most sensible policy.
    He has set up a body to look at retaliation, offered a broad mix of meaningless words in public. Exactly as Sir Humphrey would have advised.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,416

    Taz said:

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    No he isn’t. Far from it.

    He’s doing the right thing. Retaliating by imposing tariffs on the US simply hurts the consumer. Let others do it if they want and see if we can benefit.
    We're long past the point where we can choose that as an option. Tariffs *have already been applied* to hurt us. We can't negotiate a Be Nice position from Trump. He needs to be demolished and that means as much pressure being applied as possible.
    We have already chosen that option. Tariffs as applied by Trump hurt the US consumer.

    Starmer is doing a good job so far. I cannot see him changing tack for the foreseeable.
  • novanova Posts: 754
    isam said:

    Starmer’s kids will be 19 & 21 when this theme park opens, if all goes to plan. What are they getting so excited about?

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1909942081193193725?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    That's one of the main target age groups for a big theme park. They're full of late teens, and kids in their 20s.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,416

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    I think he has broadly played it well as have China and the EU. Different strokes for different folks.
    Well the world don’t move to the beat of just one drum, what might be right for you may not be right for some.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,839
    edited April 9

    Lisa Nandy: I no longer want to abolish the Royal family
    ...
    Lisa Nandy has said she no longer wants to scrap the monarchy because Britain needs the Royal family at a time of global “turmoil”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/04/09/lisa-nandy-changes-mind-abolish-royal-family-keir-starmer/ (£££)

    The President saves the King.

    I have an upcoming thread saying how the Trump state visit could turn the UK into a republic.

    Trump comes to the UK and is hosted by the King then we will see protests on the streets not seen the Iraq war.

    The monarchy could be collateral damage.
    Yes, because Trump is such a good advert for having an executive President instead of a figurehead monarch.
    I'm not aware of anyone advocating an executive president in the UK. An elected figurehead, just like Ireland, is what we should have.
    No we don't want that either, Higgins is an ex politician who interferes in politics and brings in no royal wedding, jubilee or coronation revenue and is little known outside Ireland

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/06/19/gerard-howlin-power-of-the-presidency-relies-on-the-restraint-of-the-president/

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/06/23/stephen-collins-president-higgins-may-have-opened-a-pandoras-box/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,416

    GIN1138 said:

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    Isn't "retaliation" the wrong thing though? By retaliating the whole thing just spirals and escalates. We'll soon reach the point where global trade just seizes up entirely and then what? Global Depression?

    I think in trying to de-escalate, Starmer is right but the rest of the world isn't listening so his efforts look futile...
    We don't need a lead from Starmer. We just need a UK-wide boycott of US goods. The Canadians and Danes are showing the way.
    1 litre of JD is £25 with a nectar card.

    Cannot see the old soaks who like this happily boycotting.

    https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/jack-daniels-1l?utm_medium=cpc&cmpid=cpc&catalogId=10241&utm_content=shopping&productId=25688&utm_campaign=20333921261&utm_custom2=759-449-0952&storeId=10151&gclid=CjwKCAjwtdi_BhACEiwA97y8BArj7yV4wjL6-Eosxepj1iv2waHaC8ZhaQl9S_HVdpmhZ4uW-snCPRoCC5AQAvD_BwE&utm_custom1=&langId=44&utm_source=Google&krypto=KH8rkaLmHYrYbwSIzFaQ7hPrliFvrbHWQQ3vgtNdru744WiHTyt6c6EyP040utEwFgI8rvEhxG6QvuEV9Ey5VGHu7P4dBfwb04jm2HNqfCS/923mrM4SXfOW7hLor5wouNeHHqPQE4wXTjwUeDaLDdb1sSWLXcx0zd10NciZsNATBzMcxAc5p9Nn5gDrAfdXIJ5MyRAce4+Bi98XBzX5S1bKzM9xb156T8fHHr5SY3yjS7ALN4KMWbARnW++pm5GnQtMZjV5v3B7iOAeItIto79/a4BcqI+6gJM1HIBMNYOrh+Y/vvjqZ5Gq6Dmcwn7YKBeQz+oHDac0n1IZhbxCvZ7pKKtVrSCa5oj2pMupi4eTmXJBUkQg/JF4VBBYkviXbVyScxipl109dn4OBsnK2ylyAX8zS1afFI2tafYE1MkvHdfiLgu4ZFDv1i6ME2A2&ddkey=https:gb/groceries/jack-daniels-1l
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,034
    @JuliaDavisNews

    Has Trump cancelled Christmas? China's decorations makers report no US orders

    https://x.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1909983881689788652
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,552
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, Almaty Kazakhstan is the most surprisingly agreeable city I’ve visited in - fuck knows how long. A decade? More? Ever?

    Good food, great bars, young people, no fucking “religion”, major mountains, loads of booze, big party people, really safe, surrounded by amazing scenery, yet also respectful polite and kind

    So if the shit hits the tan? - PB - this is where we all go. Or Uruguay

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/kazakhstan
    I don’t give a fuck about this shit any more. Wanky students protesting about wanky shite

    Slam them in jail. Do worse with the worst

    You know who sent the tanks into Tiananmen Square? Deng Xiao Ping, the man who correctly saw that China needed prosperity long before democracy - if it ever needs democracy at all

    Deng pulled 1bn Chinese out of poverty, after that. He was right to crush the protests
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,954
    Taz said:

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    No he isn’t. Far from it.

    He’s doing the right thing. Retaliating by imposing tariffs on the US simply hurts the consumer. Let others do it if they want and see if we can benefit.
    Yes, if the EU puts tariffs on USA goods, there is an opportunity for our exporters.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,214
    nova said:

    isam said:

    Starmer’s kids will be 19 & 21 when this theme park opens, if all goes to plan. What are they getting so excited about?

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1909942081193193725?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    That's one of the main target age groups for a big theme park. They're full of late teens, and kids in their 20s.
    Really? Starmer said it was for children

    What a bunch of wallies teenagers these days must be
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,149
    isam said:

    Starmer’s kids will be 19 & 21 when this theme park opens, if all goes to plan. What are they getting so excited about?

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1909942081193193725?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Free tickets?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,576

    Leon said:

    This is some mighty fine horse

    Big deal. Did you never stop at a French truck stop and partake of the 10f. 3 course meal with a carafe of wine included? What did you think you were eating?
    Or any UK readymeal back in 2012.
    I think that was spurious testing results, not unlike the supposed huge increases in hospital MRSA.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,074
    isam said:

    Starmer’s kids will be 19 & 21 when this theme park opens, if all goes to plan. What are they getting so excited about?

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1909942081193193725?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    You think a 19 year old can't enjoy a theme park?! I'm a lot older than that and will happily fling myself down a flume or a rollercoaster.

    You must have been the world's most boring teenager. But this is PB, I suppose...
  • novanova Posts: 754

    isam said:

    Starmer’s kids will be 19 & 21 when this theme park opens, if all goes to plan. What are they getting so excited about?

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1909942081193193725?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Dunno, but it says a lot about UK dysfunction that the PM is doing a press conference about the opening of a theme park.
    No idea how accurate their visitor estimates will be, but they're suggesting it would get more than 3 times as many visitors as any other theme park in the UK, and possibly the UK's biggest visitor attraction.

    While it might not appeal to the demographic of this site, I'd say that's pretty big news. It's a bit bigger than Noel Edmund's bringing back Blobbyland.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,945
    edited April 9

    Taz said:

    Massive Chinese retaliation. Significant EU retaliation. China, South Korea and Japan working on a notAmerica trading block.

    Where is Starmer?

    Frit I tell ya.

    No he isn’t. Far from it.

    He’s doing the right thing. Retaliating by imposing tariffs on the US simply hurts the consumer. Let others do it if they want and see if we can benefit.
    We're long past the point where we can choose that as an option. Tariffs *have already been applied* to hurt us. We can't negotiate a Be Nice position from Trump. He needs to be demolished and that means as much pressure being applied as possible.
    Are we? We've only been hit with 10%.
    If I was a UK manufacturer selling to the US I'd just do nothing too. No price reduction, just a "here's our prices, it's still £100 per widget, we see that your government is insisting you pay £110 in total of which they'll keep £10 of it. I can google your representative for you so you know who to complain to, but if you expect me to reduce my price to £91 to compensate I'm afraid you're SOL."

    The only reason I'd expect us to put tariffs up is if we want to show solidarity with the EU (And negotiate in advance with them as to what we're doing and why) and as a first step back into the EU (if that's what we want).

    I'd do nothing at this stage.
  • vikvik Posts: 244

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I HAVE RENTED A CAR TO DRIVE AROUND KAZAKHSTAN

    Really hope I don't regret this

    We will give you an interesting eulogy.
    There are lots of warnings about driving here

    But the way I see it, Kazakhstan can't be worse than - or even as bad as - Armenia. Driving in Armenia is insanely scary and perilous, and I did that for a week - including a rush hour dash through the centre of Yerevan to reach the airport. Oh my fucking god

    I came through that, I can do Kazakhstan
    A Moldovan business associate of mine does business in Kazakhstan. I've presented to Kazak businessmen with him. It sounds like a fascinating country!
    I've only seen Almaty - so far

    But Almaty is good fun. There isn't much to do, but that's part of the appeal. No pressure to do sight seeing

    It's a weirdly laid back, youthful, languid, surprisingly prosperous old Soviet City, ennobled by the great Tien Shan mountains right next door

    The people are fun loving and friendly, they like a drink, there is zero religious madness

    It is also fucking huge. I was sorely tempted to drive to Semipelatinsk to go see the old Soviet nuke testing sight. Looked near on the map. Must have tons of Dark Noom?!

    Turns out it's an 18 HOUR drive. Everything is 18 hours away, Apart from the Tien Shan and some canyons which I'm gonna go see tomorrow
    One of the things I've found almost universal is that the places that broke away from the Soviet Union feel so much more prosperous than those that stayed.
    That's a nice line, but it isn't true

    The Baltics are doing really well (but they joined the EU and as a consequence lost 1/3 of their populations, was it worth it?)

    Azerbaijan is doing fine - but that's oil

    Armenia is an impoverished dump

    Uzbekistan is poor

    Ukraine was poor, now even poorer

    Georgia is OK but war-torn

    Kazakhstan is quite well off

    Kyrgyzstan is poor

    There are too many variables to make your statement
    The Baltics are certainly doing well, despite everything. However the fall in population did not really come as a result of their accession to the EU. It happened in the 1940s.

    In 1938, in Estonia for example the population was 1.3 million, of which 88% were Estonian, with Russians being about 7% of the population. By 1989 the population was 1.5 million of which Estonians were only a bare 60%. Roughly one third of the pre war population was shot, sent to the camps or fled. The gap was filled in the 1960s and 1970s mostly by Russians.

    After independence was restored in 1991, the Russians that were part of the Soviet military had all left by 1994. Russian pensioners that retired to the Baltic (still a much higher standard of living than the rest of the USSR even after 40 years of occupation) also began to die off. Finally other Russian speakers also disproportionately emigrated, So today the population is 1.3 million and Estonians are 69% of the population. Of course both Russians and Estonians have taken advantage of the new freedom to travel, but for the last 5 years the population has been increasing.
    This way of counting the population would be regarded as very far right if you applied it to Britain.
    It's very odd that you have a profile picture with the Ukrainian national colours & Ukrainian sunflowers, and you are then parroting Russian propaganda, that any mild criticism of Russians is automatically a form of "Nazism".

    The Baltics were subjected to a brutal colonisation & ethnic cleansing, and the Russians now living in the country are the descendants of settler colonists. If they insist on maintaining their Russian identity, then clearly they don't want to assimilate into Estonian culture, and given the geo-political realities are a potential fifth column in the event of a Russian invasion.

    It is therefore absolutely appropriate to "count" the population of Estonia in this way.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,002
    Good afternoon

    I am not a fan of Starmer but I believe he is acting sensibly by not retaliating against Trump

    On a wider issue this crisis and bond yields make me very worried that Reeves is COE

    Never mind, she apparently has taken to saying ' we have your back"

    I would suggest she may need to worry more as to who has hers
  • isamisam Posts: 41,214
    Eabhal said:

    isam said:

    Starmer’s kids will be 19 & 21 when this theme park opens, if all goes to plan. What are they getting so excited about?

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1909942081193193725?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    You think a 19 year old can't enjoy a theme park?! I'm a lot older than that and will happily fling myself down a flume or a rollercoaster.

    You must have been the world's most boring teenager. But this is PB, I suppose...
    Not sure what to make of that!

    When I was a teenager, my mates and I were doing drugs, getting drunk and chasing girls… can’t remember anyone saying ‘let’s go Alton Towers’ but maybe I just wasn’t in with the cool crowd
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,387

    isam said:

    Starmer’s kids will be 19 & 21 when this theme park opens, if all goes to plan. What are they getting so excited about?

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1909942081193193725?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Dunno, but it says a lot about UK dysfunction that the PM is doing a press conference about the opening of a theme park.
    It's no different to the French ramping Eurodisney back in the day. And it'll be far less antisocial than the various new football stadiums that the politicals like to visit.
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