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Marf delivers her take on the Trump/Putin phone call – politicalbetting.com

124

Comments

  • Nigelb said:

    Israel has started another "ground operation" in Gaza.

    I am not really sure what they hope to achieve that they didn't achieve last time.
    They got several Hamas leaders, including the de facto head Essam a-Da'lees. That's good news isn't it?

    Hamas can end the conflict immediately by releasing all hostages and laying down all arms unconditionally - why hasn't it?
    Ukraine can end the conflict immediately by surrendering all their territory and laying down arms unconditionally - why haven't they?

    You see your statement sounds as ridiculous as mine.
    Somewhat different in that Ukraine is the victim of the war of aggression of Russia.

    Israel is the victim of attacks from Hamas continuing decades of harassment and seeking to annihilate Israel from the map right from the start.

    We should support Ukraine and Israel to win their wars and defeat their enemies.
    The government of Israel is seeking to annihilate Palestine. Some in the Israeli government have been explicit about their desire for a Greater Israel. Israel has been in violation of international law for decades, building settlements on occupied land and annexing territory. Israeli Arabs are treated as second-class citizens.

    That doesn’t justify Hamas’s 2023 attack, but to paint Israel as entirely the innocent victim is balderdash.
    Israel didn't eliminate Palestine, Egypt and Jordan did when they invaded and annexed it in 1948. That's why there's not been a Palestinian state, not Israel's actions.

    "International law" is a bunch of worthless piss.

    Israeli Arabs are citizens who get to vote democratically, unlike in the rest of the region.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,032
    Andy_JS said:

    What's the food like in Uruguay?

    Bit dull, I’m afraid - like nearly all of Latin America

    If you like hefty sausages and nice steaks, day after day, you’re in heaven

    I’ve just written a Kanpper’s Gazette article on why the food in the ex-Iberian colonies is almost universally dreary (the Philippines is the one place in SE Asia with shite food, in an area otherwise blessed)

    But they do have the wine. Ah, the wine
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,547
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    From last thread, directed to @kinabalu :

    So you are a self-confessed tax-avoider for all your left-of-centre champagne socialism. Such hypocrisy that is so typical of Labour supporters, particularly personified by Rayner and her two council house sales, Starmer and his tax-free benefit in kind clothing and Reeves with her lies on her CV and dodgy attitude to expenses.

    You believe that you are some sort of special case, and your virtue is unsullied because you vote for the Labour Party

    How nice of you to repeat your unpleasant jibes so more people can see them!
    If someone is claiming murder is wrong but its allowed in law if its murder of a lower class person and they murder someone....would you not call them out on it even if what they did was legal?

    There are things that are legal I wouldn't do because I believe them to be wrong and not what I believe in, Kinablu says these things are wrong but does them because he can and it benefits him is the point
    There are also things that are legal that I don't do because I believe them to be wrong. Eg wearing speedos on the heath.

    But on this tax thing. You're seriously suggesting that left wing political views should be penalised with a higher effective tax rate than everybody else?

    C'mon that's a total joke. Stop messing around. This is a forum of national repute.
    Hypocrisy always gets called out.

    See the US politicians who denounce “nationalised healthcare”, while using the free comprehensive insurance (nothing excluded), for life, provided by 5 minutes membership of the Senate or Congress.
    Hypocrisy is a sloppily used term. It means do as I say not as I do.

    Thus if (say) you slag people off for using a tax break but do it yourself. That's hypocrisy.

    But if you simply express a view that the break shouldn't be available (and would support its removal) but use it yourself, that isn't.
    So people who advocated the abolition of slavery, while keeping slaves….
    Ooo edge case. But no I'll stick with my guns. "Hypocrisy" doesn't quite nail that. Course their general anti-slavery credentials would be somewhat strengthened by not having any.
    So let's look at a more reasonable example. I am fervently against Grammar schools for lots of reasons, but if I had lived in an area with Grammar schools and my kids got in I would certainly have sent them. Am I a hypocrite? I don't think so. I'm not going to move out of the area because they have that system and much of the damage of Grammars is to the Secondaries that come as a consequence and I'm not going to martyr my kids because of my principles.
    I think it depends how you'd expressed your opposition to grammar schools.

    If that it's not the system we should really have, but since we do you'd use it, that seems fine.

    If someone suggests the system of grammars is a moral outrage, then I think it would be hypocritical to use it.
    Oh dear that is a problem for me kle4 because I am in the moral outrage camp. Luckily I was never in that position with my kids, but what would you suggest I do? Sacrifice my children's future by keeping to the moral high ground or be a hypocrite?

    I'm happy being a hypocrite if that is what is necessary.

    Let's say your partner will die if they don't have a drug, but you are anti private health care and that is the only way you can get it and you can afford it easily. Would you sacrifice your partner on that principle?
    One of the things I found rather disturbing about Jeremy Corbyn was that by his own admission he divorced his wife because she wanted to send their son to a Grammar school and he disagreed.

    I am sorry but if you are willing to give up your son and your wife for your political beliefs then that marks you as aan extremist in my eyes.
    There you go. But the other way he'd have been (on the sloppy @Nigel_Foremain metric) a hypocrite.

    I'm with you btw. Putting your politics above your family smacks of zealotry.

    Principles, yes, great, but don't go right up yourself with them. That's off-putting.
    You have principles or you don't sorry.
    If you have principles you don't violate them because it is convenient for you that means they aren't principles
    No, you have views and opinions, some of which will be sufficiently dear to you to be called "principles".
    They aren't views and opinions they are absolutes I live by.
    You think it being merely views and opinions demeans you not me
    There is a rather simple solution to this, which is a classic case of irregular verb approach.

    Since you are human you must have not lived up to some view at some point. However you maintain you would not do so on your principles. Ergo, you probably have views and opinions you have not lived up to, and this is just a dispute on what you regard as people being overdramatic by describing their views as principles.

    If a principle is just something people never bend on then no-one has ever violated their principles, since by definition they cannot.
    So far I have never violated one of my principles, not saying it couldn't happen I only have a few however

    I have never struck a woman
    I have never raped
    I have always payed full tax without seeking to avoid it
    I have never killed anyone when maiming was sufficient
    I have never maimed someone when injuring them was sufficient
    I have never injured someone when a harsh word was enough
    I have never taken from someone things they need
    I have always helped the less fortunate where I can

    These are the principles I live by and yes not violated one as yet
    The highly disturbing implication of that sentence is that you have decided, on occasion, that maiming was not sufficient - and killed someone.
    I dont see why you see it as disturbing please explain
    Well, I'm not too keen on people going around killing other people at random.

    Unless you were a soldier.
    Well the point was you didn't do it at random only when the previous options were not viable
    I am curious why you felt I promoted random killing?
    Because I have got through my entire 42 years without managing to feel the need to kill,* maim or even seriously injure anybody, so I'm genuinely surprised anyone else *has* felt that need.

    *By a remarkable effort of will, this even includes Amanda Spielman.
    See my reply to foxy been in the latter situation
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,111
    Andy_JS said:

    "Stats for Lefties 🍉🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats

    🔵 CON 25% (-)
    🔴 LAB 25% (-4)
    🟣 REF 23% (+1)
    🟠 LD 11% (-)
    🟢 GRN 9% (+1)

    Via @DeltapollUK, 14-17 Mar (+/- vs 17-20 Jan)"

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1902448125190496346

    I'm disappointed that because we have both Greens and LDs we cannot get a 4th party in the 20s.

    (Yes I know their two scores would not combine if the other were not there).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,230
    Andy_JS said:

    "Stats for Lefties 🍉🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats

    🔵 CON 25% (-)
    🔴 LAB 25% (-4)
    🟣 REF 23% (+1)
    🟠 LD 11% (-)
    🟢 GRN 9% (+1)

    Via @DeltapollUK, 14-17 Mar (+/- vs 17-20 Jan)"

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1902448125190496346

    Broken, sleazy Labour on the slide :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,111
    Scott_xP said:

    How fucked is the US? part 45584763425474534 of an ongoing series...

    DOGE illegally occupied a private building by coercing the security guards

    Marisa Kabas

    Wow. Judge Howell is worried that if she orders DOGE to leave the USIP building it could turn into an “armed standoff” over unwillingness to vacate, and points out law enforcement has shown willingness to help DOGE. Asks if we’ll need foreign mediators to come in.

    https://bsky.app/profile/marisakabas.bsky.social/post/3lkqyjeozok2x

    Aren't a lot of law enforcement in the US pretty Trumpy?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,847
    Scott_xP said:

    How fucked is the US? part 45584763425474534 of an ongoing series...

    DOGE illegally occupied a private building by coercing the security guards

    Marisa Kabas

    Wow. Judge Howell is worried that if she orders DOGE to leave the USIP building it could turn into an “armed standoff” over unwillingness to vacate, and points out law enforcement has shown willingness to help DOGE. Asks if we’ll need foreign mediators to come in.

    https://bsky.app/profile/marisakabas.bsky.social/post/3lkqyjeozok2x

    Do you know I'm genuinely pissed off by all this. The Americans are turning the alleged land of the free into an corrupt autocracy and the Democrats are just gaping like dying fish, and the British allegedly left wing party is acting like it's 1997 and there's a end-of-the-Cold-War bonus. They are clever people, or pretend to be. If I can see it, why can't they?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,547
    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    From last thread, directed to @kinabalu :

    So you are a self-confessed tax-avoider for all your left-of-centre champagne socialism. Such hypocrisy that is so typical of Labour supporters, particularly personified by Rayner and her two council house sales, Starmer and his tax-free benefit in kind clothing and Reeves with her lies on her CV and dodgy attitude to expenses.

    You believe that you are some sort of special case, and your virtue is unsullied because you vote for the Labour Party

    How nice of you to repeat your unpleasant jibes so more people can see them!
    If someone is claiming murder is wrong but its allowed in law if its murder of a lower class person and they murder someone....would you not call them out on it even if what they did was legal?

    There are things that are legal I wouldn't do because I believe them to be wrong and not what I believe in, Kinablu says these things are wrong but does them because he can and it benefits him is the point
    There are also things that are legal that I don't do because I believe them to be wrong. Eg wearing speedos on the heath.

    But on this tax thing. You're seriously suggesting that left wing political views should be penalised with a higher effective tax rate than everybody else?

    C'mon that's a total joke. Stop messing around. This is a forum of national repute.
    Hypocrisy always gets called out.

    See the US politicians who denounce “nationalised healthcare”, while using the free comprehensive insurance (nothing excluded), for life, provided by 5 minutes membership of the Senate or Congress.
    Hypocrisy is a sloppily used term. It means do as I say not as I do.

    Thus if (say) you slag people off for using a tax break but do it yourself. That's hypocrisy.

    But if you simply express a view that the break shouldn't be available (and would support its removal) but use it yourself, that isn't.
    So people who advocated the abolition of slavery, while keeping slaves….
    Ooo edge case. But no I'll stick with my guns. "Hypocrisy" doesn't quite nail that. Course their general anti-slavery credentials would be somewhat strengthened by not having any.
    So let's look at a more reasonable example. I am fervently against Grammar schools for lots of reasons, but if I had lived in an area with Grammar schools and my kids got in I would certainly have sent them. Am I a hypocrite? I don't think so. I'm not going to move out of the area because they have that system and much of the damage of Grammars is to the Secondaries that come as a consequence and I'm not going to martyr my kids because of my principles.
    I think it depends how you'd expressed your opposition to grammar schools.

    If that it's not the system we should really have, but since we do you'd use it, that seems fine.

    If someone suggests the system of grammars is a moral outrage, then I think it would be hypocritical to use it.
    Oh dear that is a problem for me kle4 because I am in the moral outrage camp. Luckily I was never in that position with my kids, but what would you suggest I do? Sacrifice my children's future by keeping to the moral high ground or be a hypocrite?

    I'm happy being a hypocrite if that is what is necessary.

    Let's say your partner will die if they don't have a drug, but you are anti private health care and that is the only way you can get it and you can afford it easily. Would you sacrifice your partner on that principle?
    One of the things I found rather disturbing about Jeremy Corbyn was that by his own admission he divorced his wife because she wanted to send their son to a Grammar school and he disagreed.

    I am sorry but if you are willing to give up your son and your wife for your political beliefs then that marks you as aan extremist in my eyes.
    There you go. But the other way he'd have been (on the sloppy @Nigel_Foremain metric) a hypocrite.

    I'm with you btw. Putting your politics above your family smacks of zealotry.

    Principles, yes, great, but don't go right up yourself with them. That's off-putting.
    You have principles or you don't sorry.
    If you have principles you don't violate them because it is convenient for you that means they aren't principles
    No, you have views and opinions, some of which will be sufficiently dear to you to be called "principles".
    They aren't views and opinions they are absolutes I live by.
    You think it being merely views and opinions demeans you not me
    There is a rather simple solution to this, which is a classic case of irregular verb approach.

    Since you are human you must have not lived up to some view at some point. However you maintain you would not do so on your principles. Ergo, you probably have views and opinions you have not lived up to, and this is just a dispute on what you regard as people being overdramatic by describing their views as principles.

    If a principle is just something people never bend on then no-one has ever violated their principles, since by definition they cannot.
    So far I have never violated one of my principles, not saying it couldn't happen I only have a few however

    I have never struck a woman
    I have never raped
    I have always payed full tax without seeking to avoid it
    I have never killed anyone when maiming was sufficient
    I have never maimed someone when injuring them was sufficient
    I have never injured someone when a harsh word was enough
    I have never taken from someone things they need
    I have always helped the less fortunate where I can

    These are the principles I live by and yes not violated one as yet
    The highly disturbing implication of that sentence is that you have decided, on occasion, that maiming was not sufficient - and killed someone.
    I dont see why you see it as disturbing please explain
    Well, I'm not too keen on people going around killing other people at random.

    Unless you were a soldier.
    Well the point was you didn't do it at random only when the previous options were not viable
    I am curious why you felt I promoted random killing?
    Because I have got through my entire 42 years without managing to feel the need to kill,* maim or even seriously injure anybody, so I'm genuinely surprised anyone else *has* felt that need.

    *By a remarkable effort of will, this even includes Amanda Spielman.
    See my reply to foxy been in the latter situation
    What would be your solution?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,189
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How fucked is the US? part 45584763425474534 of an ongoing series...

    DOGE illegally occupied a private building by coercing the security guards

    Marisa Kabas

    Wow. Judge Howell is worried that if she orders DOGE to leave the USIP building it could turn into an “armed standoff” over unwillingness to vacate, and points out law enforcement has shown willingness to help DOGE. Asks if we’ll need foreign mediators to come in.

    https://bsky.app/profile/marisakabas.bsky.social/post/3lkqyjeozok2x

    Aren't a lot of law enforcement in the US pretty Trumpy?
    We are about to find out, and not in a good way...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,558
    Foxy said:

    Looks like I won't be allowed to visit America for at least the next four years.

    "This measure was apparently taken by the American authorities because the researcher's phone contained exchanges with colleagues and friends in which he expressed a personal opinion on the Trump administration's research policy"

    When do we start to call this by its name? A French researcher has his phone and laptop confiscated and is refused entry because of personal messages found in a "random search" at the border criticizing Trump.

    https://x.com/shashj/status/1902446261824807412

    Was the Frenchman rather swarthy of complexion perchance?

    It does sound as if Constable Savage is alive and well, and working for ICE.

    https://youtu.be/xGxjnD42iw0?feature=shared
    That's Chief Constable Sir Fred Savage, OBE, DipSHit to you.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,813

    Andy_JS said:

    "Stats for Lefties 🍉🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats

    🔵 CON 25% (-)
    🔴 LAB 25% (-4)
    🟣 REF 23% (+1)
    🟠 LD 11% (-)
    🟢 GRN 9% (+1)

    Via @DeltapollUK, 14-17 Mar (+/- vs 17-20 Jan)"

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1902448125190496346

    The "world stage" bounce didn't last long.
    He is doing OK but not sure how that will play out when Dianne Abbott makes a highly critical statement in PMQs over the cruelty of taking away disability payments from the vulnerable and Starmer's makes an insensitive response to her

    Maybe he is starting to believe he is the chosen one which would be a mistake
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,493
    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    From last thread, directed to @kinabalu :

    So you are a self-confessed tax-avoider for all your left-of-centre champagne socialism. Such hypocrisy that is so typical of Labour supporters, particularly personified by Rayner and her two council house sales, Starmer and his tax-free benefit in kind clothing and Reeves with her lies on her CV and dodgy attitude to expenses.

    You believe that you are some sort of special case, and your virtue is unsullied because you vote for the Labour Party

    How nice of you to repeat your unpleasant jibes so more people can see them!
    If someone is claiming murder is wrong but its allowed in law if its murder of a lower class person and they murder someone....would you not call them out on it even if what they did was legal?

    There are things that are legal I wouldn't do because I believe them to be wrong and not what I believe in, Kinablu says these things are wrong but does them because he can and it benefits him is the point
    There are also things that are legal that I don't do because I believe them to be wrong. Eg wearing speedos on the heath.

    But on this tax thing. You're seriously suggesting that left wing political views should be penalised with a higher effective tax rate than everybody else?

    C'mon that's a total joke. Stop messing around. This is a forum of national repute.
    Hypocrisy always gets called out.

    See the US politicians who denounce “nationalised healthcare”, while using the free comprehensive insurance (nothing excluded), for life, provided by 5 minutes membership of the Senate or Congress.
    Hypocrisy is a sloppily used term. It means do as I say not as I do.

    Thus if (say) you slag people off for using a tax break but do it yourself. That's hypocrisy.

    But if you simply express a view that the break shouldn't be available (and would support its removal) but use it yourself, that isn't.
    So people who advocated the abolition of slavery, while keeping slaves….
    Ooo edge case. But no I'll stick with my guns. "Hypocrisy" doesn't quite nail that. Course their general anti-slavery credentials would be somewhat strengthened by not having any.
    So let's look at a more reasonable example. I am fervently against Grammar schools for lots of reasons, but if I had lived in an area with Grammar schools and my kids got in I would certainly have sent them. Am I a hypocrite? I don't think so. I'm not going to move out of the area because they have that system and much of the damage of Grammars is to the Secondaries that come as a consequence and I'm not going to martyr my kids because of my principles.
    I think it depends how you'd expressed your opposition to grammar schools.

    If that it's not the system we should really have, but since we do you'd use it, that seems fine.

    If someone suggests the system of grammars is a moral outrage, then I think it would be hypocritical to use it.
    Oh dear that is a problem for me kle4 because I am in the moral outrage camp. Luckily I was never in that position with my kids, but what would you suggest I do? Sacrifice my children's future by keeping to the moral high ground or be a hypocrite?

    I'm happy being a hypocrite if that is what is necessary.

    Let's say your partner will die if they don't have a drug, but you are anti private health care and that is the only way you can get it and you can afford it easily. Would you sacrifice your partner on that principle?
    One of the things I found rather disturbing about Jeremy Corbyn was that by his own admission he divorced his wife because she wanted to send their son to a Grammar school and he disagreed.

    I am sorry but if you are willing to give up your son and your wife for your political beliefs then that marks you as aan extremist in my eyes.
    There you go. But the other way he'd have been (on the sloppy @Nigel_Foremain metric) a hypocrite.

    I'm with you btw. Putting your politics above your family smacks of zealotry.

    Principles, yes, great, but don't go right up yourself with them. That's off-putting.
    You have principles or you don't sorry.
    If you have principles you don't violate them because it is convenient for you that means they aren't principles
    No, you have views and opinions, some of which will be sufficiently dear to you to be called "principles".
    They aren't views and opinions they are absolutes I live by.
    You think it being merely views and opinions demeans you not me
    There is a rather simple solution to this, which is a classic case of irregular verb approach.

    Since you are human you must have not lived up to some view at some point. However you maintain you would not do so on your principles. Ergo, you probably have views and opinions you have not lived up to, and this is just a dispute on what you regard as people being overdramatic by describing their views as principles.

    If a principle is just something people never bend on then no-one has ever violated their principles, since by definition they cannot.
    So far I have never violated one of my principles, not saying it couldn't happen I only have a few however

    I have never struck a woman
    I have never raped
    I have always payed full tax without seeking to avoid it
    I have never killed anyone when maiming was sufficient
    I have never maimed someone when injuring them was sufficient
    I have never injured someone when a harsh word was enough
    I have never taken from someone things they need
    I have always helped the less fortunate where I can

    These are the principles I live by and yes not violated one as yet
    The highly disturbing implication of that sentence is that you have decided, on occasion, that maiming was not sufficient - and killed someone.
    My principles and rules for life are simpler.

    1) Never drink straight from a bottle. Insist on a glass.

    2) Never wear sportswear except when participating in sport.

    3) At social events, always spend some time talking to the oldest person in the room.

    That pretty much covers it really.
    Those principles are great but fairly specific to social functions
    All life is a social function.
    Well there are social functions like the local hospital dinner dance

    and social functions

    such as you walk into an alley to find five guys gang raping a girl

    I suspect that your principles work for the former but not the latter
    I don't think any of my rules would be invalidated in such a situation, not that I have been in it.

    I would risk assess the situation to determine the best way of minimising harm and maximising successful prosecution of the individuals. I have training in non-violent de-escalation of threatening situations.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,032
    viewcode said:

    Wow. Hodges pulls no punches as he tears into Starmer's administration over welfare:

    Remember what people were told they were voting for last July: ‘Change’. And what were they presented with yesterday? The spectacle of a Labour minister – a Labour minister – aggressively confronting anyone who had the gall to question whether demanding that the most vulnerable in society again make the greatest sacrifices was really morally or economically sustainable.

    A storm is coming. The British people have had enough. They are not going to tolerate another parade of ministers in tight grey suits, sporting red – rather than blue – ties, telling them those in most need have to do with less.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14514899/DAN-HODGES-Labour-minister-Newsnight-Keir-Starmer.html

    As I keep pointing out, Blairism DOES NOT WORK in the 2020s. We tried corporatism in 1945-1979: it had its day and then it died. We tried neoliberalism in 1980-2019: it had its day and then it died. This warmed-over rotting-fish neoliberalism is not working and requires Labour to act out of character: if it isn't there to defend the old and the sick, what the hell is it there for? When is the "taxing the rich" bit due to kick in? They aren't going to do that because Blairism could afford not to do so, but these days you have to.

    Honestly Morgan McSweeney, if you read PB, please do the bloody maths, yes?
    You can’t tax the rich any more because the rich are ever more mobile, as Covid and WFH and the interweb have shown

    Britain is already suffering a profound exodus of rich people, more than any other nation on earth. At the same time sunnier places without terror attacks, migration nightmares and machete-wielding Rolex robbers are attracting these rich people (often the young) with digital nomad visas and very low taxes

    The Treasury is well aware of this, hence Labour backtracking on non doms and desperately trying to change its rhetoric on wealth

    If you want our tax base to entirely disappear, go ahead an impose a wealth tax, and see how much rain mobile wealthy people are willing to tolerate in return for, uhm, ah, the brilliance of the NHS?

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,547
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    From last thread, directed to @kinabalu :

    So you are a self-confessed tax-avoider for all your left-of-centre champagne socialism. Such hypocrisy that is so typical of Labour supporters, particularly personified by Rayner and her two council house sales, Starmer and his tax-free benefit in kind clothing and Reeves with her lies on her CV and dodgy attitude to expenses.

    You believe that you are some sort of special case, and your virtue is unsullied because you vote for the Labour Party

    How nice of you to repeat your unpleasant jibes so more people can see them!
    If someone is claiming murder is wrong but its allowed in law if its murder of a lower class person and they murder someone....would you not call them out on it even if what they did was legal?

    There are things that are legal I wouldn't do because I believe them to be wrong and not what I believe in, Kinablu says these things are wrong but does them because he can and it benefits him is the point
    There are also things that are legal that I don't do because I believe them to be wrong. Eg wearing speedos on the heath.

    But on this tax thing. You're seriously suggesting that left wing political views should be penalised with a higher effective tax rate than everybody else?

    C'mon that's a total joke. Stop messing around. This is a forum of national repute.
    Hypocrisy always gets called out.

    See the US politicians who denounce “nationalised healthcare”, while using the free comprehensive insurance (nothing excluded), for life, provided by 5 minutes membership of the Senate or Congress.
    Hypocrisy is a sloppily used term. It means do as I say not as I do.

    Thus if (say) you slag people off for using a tax break but do it yourself. That's hypocrisy.

    But if you simply express a view that the break shouldn't be available (and would support its removal) but use it yourself, that isn't.
    So people who advocated the abolition of slavery, while keeping slaves….
    Ooo edge case. But no I'll stick with my guns. "Hypocrisy" doesn't quite nail that. Course their general anti-slavery credentials would be somewhat strengthened by not having any.
    So let's look at a more reasonable example. I am fervently against Grammar schools for lots of reasons, but if I had lived in an area with Grammar schools and my kids got in I would certainly have sent them. Am I a hypocrite? I don't think so. I'm not going to move out of the area because they have that system and much of the damage of Grammars is to the Secondaries that come as a consequence and I'm not going to martyr my kids because of my principles.
    I think it depends how you'd expressed your opposition to grammar schools.

    If that it's not the system we should really have, but since we do you'd use it, that seems fine.

    If someone suggests the system of grammars is a moral outrage, then I think it would be hypocritical to use it.
    Oh dear that is a problem for me kle4 because I am in the moral outrage camp. Luckily I was never in that position with my kids, but what would you suggest I do? Sacrifice my children's future by keeping to the moral high ground or be a hypocrite?

    I'm happy being a hypocrite if that is what is necessary.

    Let's say your partner will die if they don't have a drug, but you are anti private health care and that is the only way you can get it and you can afford it easily. Would you sacrifice your partner on that principle?
    One of the things I found rather disturbing about Jeremy Corbyn was that by his own admission he divorced his wife because she wanted to send their son to a Grammar school and he disagreed.

    I am sorry but if you are willing to give up your son and your wife for your political beliefs then that marks you as aan extremist in my eyes.
    There you go. But the other way he'd have been (on the sloppy @Nigel_Foremain metric) a hypocrite.

    I'm with you btw. Putting your politics above your family smacks of zealotry.

    Principles, yes, great, but don't go right up yourself with them. That's off-putting.
    You have principles or you don't sorry.
    If you have principles you don't violate them because it is convenient for you that means they aren't principles
    No, you have views and opinions, some of which will be sufficiently dear to you to be called "principles".
    They aren't views and opinions they are absolutes I live by.
    You think it being merely views and opinions demeans you not me
    There is a rather simple solution to this, which is a classic case of irregular verb approach.

    Since you are human you must have not lived up to some view at some point. However you maintain you would not do so on your principles. Ergo, you probably have views and opinions you have not lived up to, and this is just a dispute on what you regard as people being overdramatic by describing their views as principles.

    If a principle is just something people never bend on then no-one has ever violated their principles, since by definition they cannot.
    So far I have never violated one of my principles, not saying it couldn't happen I only have a few however

    I have never struck a woman
    I have never raped
    I have always payed full tax without seeking to avoid it
    I have never killed anyone when maiming was sufficient
    I have never maimed someone when injuring them was sufficient
    I have never injured someone when a harsh word was enough
    I have never taken from someone things they need
    I have always helped the less fortunate where I can

    These are the principles I live by and yes not violated one as yet
    The highly disturbing implication of that sentence is that you have decided, on occasion, that maiming was not sufficient - and killed someone.
    My principles and rules for life are simpler.

    1) Never drink straight from a bottle. Insist on a glass.

    2) Never wear sportswear except when participating in sport.

    3) At social events, always spend some time talking to the oldest person in the room.

    That pretty much covers it really.
    Those principles are great but fairly specific to social functions
    All life is a social function.
    Well there are social functions like the local hospital dinner dance

    and social functions

    such as you walk into an alley to find five guys gang raping a girl

    I suspect that your principles work for the former but not the latter
    I don't think any of my rules would be invalidated in such a situation, not that I have been in it.

    I would risk assess the situation to determine the best way of minimising harm and maximising successful prosecution of the individuals. I have training in non-violent de-escalation of threatening situations.
    Yes you have training in deescalating a gang rape so they all go away embarressed.....sorry dont believe it
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,506
    Foxy said:

    Looks like I won't be allowed to visit America for at least the next four years.

    "This measure was apparently taken by the American authorities because the researcher's phone contained exchanges with colleagues and friends in which he expressed a personal opinion on the Trump administration's research policy"

    When do we start to call this by its name? A French researcher has his phone and laptop confiscated and is refused entry because of personal messages found in a "random search" at the border criticizing Trump.

    https://x.com/shashj/status/1902446261824807412

    Was the Frenchman rather swarthy of complexion perchance?

    It does sound as if Constable Savage is alive and well, and working for ICE.

    https://youtu.be/xGxjnD42iw0?feature=shared
    I was just thinking the other day that I'm surprised that 'swarthy' hasn't made a comeback in the Reform era.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,547
    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    From last thread, directed to @kinabalu :

    So you are a self-confessed tax-avoider for all your left-of-centre champagne socialism. Such hypocrisy that is so typical of Labour supporters, particularly personified by Rayner and her two council house sales, Starmer and his tax-free benefit in kind clothing and Reeves with her lies on her CV and dodgy attitude to expenses.

    You believe that you are some sort of special case, and your virtue is unsullied because you vote for the Labour Party

    How nice of you to repeat your unpleasant jibes so more people can see them!
    If someone is claiming murder is wrong but its allowed in law if its murder of a lower class person and they murder someone....would you not call them out on it even if what they did was legal?

    There are things that are legal I wouldn't do because I believe them to be wrong and not what I believe in, Kinablu says these things are wrong but does them because he can and it benefits him is the point
    There are also things that are legal that I don't do because I believe them to be wrong. Eg wearing speedos on the heath.

    But on this tax thing. You're seriously suggesting that left wing political views should be penalised with a higher effective tax rate than everybody else?

    C'mon that's a total joke. Stop messing around. This is a forum of national repute.
    Hypocrisy always gets called out.

    See the US politicians who denounce “nationalised healthcare”, while using the free comprehensive insurance (nothing excluded), for life, provided by 5 minutes membership of the Senate or Congress.
    Hypocrisy is a sloppily used term. It means do as I say not as I do.

    Thus if (say) you slag people off for using a tax break but do it yourself. That's hypocrisy.

    But if you simply express a view that the break shouldn't be available (and would support its removal) but use it yourself, that isn't.
    So people who advocated the abolition of slavery, while keeping slaves….
    Ooo edge case. But no I'll stick with my guns. "Hypocrisy" doesn't quite nail that. Course their general anti-slavery credentials would be somewhat strengthened by not having any.
    So let's look at a more reasonable example. I am fervently against Grammar schools for lots of reasons, but if I had lived in an area with Grammar schools and my kids got in I would certainly have sent them. Am I a hypocrite? I don't think so. I'm not going to move out of the area because they have that system and much of the damage of Grammars is to the Secondaries that come as a consequence and I'm not going to martyr my kids because of my principles.
    I think it depends how you'd expressed your opposition to grammar schools.

    If that it's not the system we should really have, but since we do you'd use it, that seems fine.

    If someone suggests the system of grammars is a moral outrage, then I think it would be hypocritical to use it.
    Oh dear that is a problem for me kle4 because I am in the moral outrage camp. Luckily I was never in that position with my kids, but what would you suggest I do? Sacrifice my children's future by keeping to the moral high ground or be a hypocrite?

    I'm happy being a hypocrite if that is what is necessary.

    Let's say your partner will die if they don't have a drug, but you are anti private health care and that is the only way you can get it and you can afford it easily. Would you sacrifice your partner on that principle?
    One of the things I found rather disturbing about Jeremy Corbyn was that by his own admission he divorced his wife because she wanted to send their son to a Grammar school and he disagreed.

    I am sorry but if you are willing to give up your son and your wife for your political beliefs then that marks you as aan extremist in my eyes.
    There you go. But the other way he'd have been (on the sloppy @Nigel_Foremain metric) a hypocrite.

    I'm with you btw. Putting your politics above your family smacks of zealotry.

    Principles, yes, great, but don't go right up yourself with them. That's off-putting.
    You have principles or you don't sorry.
    If you have principles you don't violate them because it is convenient for you that means they aren't principles
    No, you have views and opinions, some of which will be sufficiently dear to you to be called "principles".
    They aren't views and opinions they are absolutes I live by.
    You think it being merely views and opinions demeans you not me
    There is a rather simple solution to this, which is a classic case of irregular verb approach.

    Since you are human you must have not lived up to some view at some point. However you maintain you would not do so on your principles. Ergo, you probably have views and opinions you have not lived up to, and this is just a dispute on what you regard as people being overdramatic by describing their views as principles.

    If a principle is just something people never bend on then no-one has ever violated their principles, since by definition they cannot.
    So far I have never violated one of my principles, not saying it couldn't happen I only have a few however

    I have never struck a woman
    I have never raped
    I have always payed full tax without seeking to avoid it
    I have never killed anyone when maiming was sufficient
    I have never maimed someone when injuring them was sufficient
    I have never injured someone when a harsh word was enough
    I have never taken from someone things they need
    I have always helped the less fortunate where I can

    These are the principles I live by and yes not violated one as yet
    The highly disturbing implication of that sentence is that you have decided, on occasion, that maiming was not sufficient - and killed someone.
    My principles and rules for life are simpler.

    1) Never drink straight from a bottle. Insist on a glass.

    2) Never wear sportswear except when participating in sport.

    3) At social events, always spend some time talking to the oldest person in the room.

    That pretty much covers it really.
    Those principles are great but fairly specific to social functions
    All life is a social function.
    Well there are social functions like the local hospital dinner dance

    and social functions

    such as you walk into an alley to find five guys gang raping a girl

    I suspect that your principles work for the former but not the latter
    I don't think any of my rules would be invalidated in such a situation, not that I have been in it.

    I would risk assess the situation to determine the best way of minimising harm and maximising successful prosecution of the individuals. I have training in non-violent de-escalation of threatening situations.
    Yes you have training in deescalating a gang rape so they all go away embarressed.....sorry dont believe it
    This a problem as well with pb not only are most rich they also have little experience of the worse streets in town
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,493
    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    From last thread, directed to @kinabalu :

    So you are a self-confessed tax-avoider for all your left-of-centre champagne socialism. Such hypocrisy that is so typical of Labour supporters, particularly personified by Rayner and her two council house sales, Starmer and his tax-free benefit in kind clothing and Reeves with her lies on her CV and dodgy attitude to expenses.

    You believe that you are some sort of special case, and your virtue is unsullied because you vote for the Labour Party

    How nice of you to repeat your unpleasant jibes so more people can see them!
    If someone is claiming murder is wrong but its allowed in law if its murder of a lower class person and they murder someone....would you not call them out on it even if what they did was legal?

    There are things that are legal I wouldn't do because I believe them to be wrong and not what I believe in, Kinablu says these things are wrong but does them because he can and it benefits him is the point
    There are also things that are legal that I don't do because I believe them to be wrong. Eg wearing speedos on the heath.

    But on this tax thing. You're seriously suggesting that left wing political views should be penalised with a higher effective tax rate than everybody else?

    C'mon that's a total joke. Stop messing around. This is a forum of national repute.
    Hypocrisy always gets called out.

    See the US politicians who denounce “nationalised healthcare”, while using the free comprehensive insurance (nothing excluded), for life, provided by 5 minutes membership of the Senate or Congress.
    Hypocrisy is a sloppily used term. It means do as I say not as I do.

    Thus if (say) you slag people off for using a tax break but do it yourself. That's hypocrisy.

    But if you simply express a view that the break shouldn't be available (and would support its removal) but use it yourself, that isn't.
    So people who advocated the abolition of slavery, while keeping slaves….
    Ooo edge case. But no I'll stick with my guns. "Hypocrisy" doesn't quite nail that. Course their general anti-slavery credentials would be somewhat strengthened by not having any.
    So let's look at a more reasonable example. I am fervently against Grammar schools for lots of reasons, but if I had lived in an area with Grammar schools and my kids got in I would certainly have sent them. Am I a hypocrite? I don't think so. I'm not going to move out of the area because they have that system and much of the damage of Grammars is to the Secondaries that come as a consequence and I'm not going to martyr my kids because of my principles.
    I think it depends how you'd expressed your opposition to grammar schools.

    If that it's not the system we should really have, but since we do you'd use it, that seems fine.

    If someone suggests the system of grammars is a moral outrage, then I think it would be hypocritical to use it.
    Oh dear that is a problem for me kle4 because I am in the moral outrage camp. Luckily I was never in that position with my kids, but what would you suggest I do? Sacrifice my children's future by keeping to the moral high ground or be a hypocrite?

    I'm happy being a hypocrite if that is what is necessary.

    Let's say your partner will die if they don't have a drug, but you are anti private health care and that is the only way you can get it and you can afford it easily. Would you sacrifice your partner on that principle?
    One of the things I found rather disturbing about Jeremy Corbyn was that by his own admission he divorced his wife because she wanted to send their son to a Grammar school and he disagreed.

    I am sorry but if you are willing to give up your son and your wife for your political beliefs then that marks you as aan extremist in my eyes.
    There you go. But the other way he'd have been (on the sloppy @Nigel_Foremain metric) a hypocrite.

    I'm with you btw. Putting your politics above your family smacks of zealotry.

    Principles, yes, great, but don't go right up yourself with them. That's off-putting.
    You have principles or you don't sorry.
    If you have principles you don't violate them because it is convenient for you that means they aren't principles
    No, you have views and opinions, some of which will be sufficiently dear to you to be called "principles".
    They aren't views and opinions they are absolutes I live by.
    You think it being merely views and opinions demeans you not me
    There is a rather simple solution to this, which is a classic case of irregular verb approach.

    Since you are human you must have not lived up to some view at some point. However you maintain you would not do so on your principles. Ergo, you probably have views and opinions you have not lived up to, and this is just a dispute on what you regard as people being overdramatic by describing their views as principles.

    If a principle is just something people never bend on then no-one has ever violated their principles, since by definition they cannot.
    So far I have never violated one of my principles, not saying it couldn't happen I only have a few however

    I have never struck a woman
    I have never raped
    I have always payed full tax without seeking to avoid it
    I have never killed anyone when maiming was sufficient
    I have never maimed someone when injuring them was sufficient
    I have never injured someone when a harsh word was enough
    I have never taken from someone things they need
    I have always helped the less fortunate where I can

    These are the principles I live by and yes not violated one as yet
    The highly disturbing implication of that sentence is that you have decided, on occasion, that maiming was not sufficient - and killed someone.
    My principles and rules for life are simpler.

    1) Never drink straight from a bottle. Insist on a glass.

    2) Never wear sportswear except when participating in sport.

    3) At social events, always spend some time talking to the oldest person in the room.

    That pretty much covers it really.
    Those principles are great but fairly specific to social functions
    All life is a social function.
    Well there are social functions like the local hospital dinner dance

    and social functions

    such as you walk into an alley to find five guys gang raping a girl

    I suspect that your principles work for the former but not the latter
    I don't think any of my rules would be invalidated in such a situation, not that I have been in it.

    I would risk assess the situation to determine the best way of minimising harm and maximising successful prosecution of the individuals. I have training in non-violent de-escalation of threatening situations.
    Yes you have training in deescalating a gang rape so they all go away embarressed.....sorry dont believe it
    I didn't say that.

    We have excellent training in de-escalation of situations in my Trust, from a former Squaddie turned Copper, and it has worked for me in a number of situations. Threatened and actual violence are not unusual in my line of work. The most recent time I used it was diverting assaults on a paramedic who was tending an unconscious man. No one got hurt and I talked them down from actions that would probably have got them nicked when the police finally got there. It seemed an age.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,111
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    From last thread, directed to @kinabalu :

    So you are a self-confessed tax-avoider for all your left-of-centre champagne socialism. Such hypocrisy that is so typical of Labour supporters, particularly personified by Rayner and her two council house sales, Starmer and his tax-free benefit in kind clothing and Reeves with her lies on her CV and dodgy attitude to expenses.

    You believe that you are some sort of special case, and your virtue is unsullied because you vote for the Labour Party

    How nice of you to repeat your unpleasant jibes so more people can see them!
    If someone is claiming murder is wrong but its allowed in law if its murder of a lower class person and they murder someone....would you not call them out on it even if what they did was legal?

    There are things that are legal I wouldn't do because I believe them to be wrong and not what I believe in, Kinablu says these things are wrong but does them because he can and it benefits him is the point
    There are also things that are legal that I don't do because I believe them to be wrong. Eg wearing speedos on the heath.

    But on this tax thing. You're seriously suggesting that left wing political views should be penalised with a higher effective tax rate than everybody else?

    C'mon that's a total joke. Stop messing around. This is a forum of national repute.
    Hypocrisy always gets called out.

    See the US politicians who denounce “nationalised healthcare”, while using the free comprehensive insurance (nothing excluded), for life, provided by 5 minutes membership of the Senate or Congress.
    Hypocrisy is a sloppily used term. It means do as I say not as I do.

    Thus if (say) you slag people off for using a tax break but do it yourself. That's hypocrisy.

    But if you simply express a view that the break shouldn't be available (and would support its removal) but use it yourself, that isn't.
    So people who advocated the abolition of slavery, while keeping slaves….
    Ooo edge case. But no I'll stick with my guns. "Hypocrisy" doesn't quite nail that. Course their general anti-slavery credentials would be somewhat strengthened by not having any.
    So let's look at a more reasonable example. I am fervently against Grammar schools for lots of reasons, but if I had lived in an area with Grammar schools and my kids got in I would certainly have sent them. Am I a hypocrite? I don't think so. I'm not going to move out of the area because they have that system and much of the damage of Grammars is to the Secondaries that come as a consequence and I'm not going to martyr my kids because of my principles.
    I think it depends how you'd expressed your opposition to grammar schools.

    If that it's not the system we should really have, but since we do you'd use it, that seems fine.

    If someone suggests the system of grammars is a moral outrage, then I think it would be hypocritical to use it.
    Oh dear that is a problem for me kle4 because I am in the moral outrage camp. Luckily I was never in that position with my kids, but what would you suggest I do? Sacrifice my children's future by keeping to the moral high ground or be a hypocrite?

    I'm happy being a hypocrite if that is what is necessary.

    Let's say your partner will die if they don't have a drug, but you are anti private health care and that is the only way you can get it and you can afford it easily. Would you sacrifice your partner on that principle?
    One of the things I found rather disturbing about Jeremy Corbyn was that by his own admission he divorced his wife because she wanted to send their son to a Grammar school and he disagreed.

    I am sorry but if you are willing to give up your son and your wife for your political beliefs then that marks you as aan extremist in my eyes.
    There you go. But the other way he'd have been (on the sloppy @Nigel_Foremain metric) a hypocrite.

    I'm with you btw. Putting your politics above your family smacks of zealotry.

    Principles, yes, great, but don't go right up yourself with them. That's off-putting.
    You have principles or you don't sorry.
    If you have principles you don't violate them because it is convenient for you that means they aren't principles
    No, you have views and opinions, some of which will be sufficiently dear to you to be called "principles".
    They aren't views and opinions they are absolutes I live by.
    You think it being merely views and opinions demeans you not me
    There is a rather simple solution to this, which is a classic case of irregular verb approach.

    Since you are human you must have not lived up to some view at some point. However you maintain you would not do so on your principles. Ergo, you probably have views and opinions you have not lived up to, and this is just a dispute on what you regard as people being overdramatic by describing their views as principles.

    If a principle is just something people never bend on then no-one has ever violated their principles, since by definition they cannot.
    So far I have never violated one of my principles, not saying it couldn't happen I only have a few however

    I have never struck a woman
    I have never raped
    I have always payed full tax without seeking to avoid it
    I have never killed anyone when maiming was sufficient
    I have never maimed someone when injuring them was sufficient
    I have never injured someone when a harsh word was enough
    I have never taken from someone things they need
    I have always helped the less fortunate where I can

    These are the principles I live by and yes not violated one as yet
    The highly disturbing implication of that sentence is that you have decided, on occasion, that maiming was not sufficient - and killed someone.
    My principles and rules for life are simpler.

    1) Never drink straight from a bottle. Insist on a glass.

    2) Never wear sportswear except when participating in sport.

    3) At social events, always spend some time talking to the oldest person in the room.

    That pretty much covers it really.
    Those principles are great but fairly specific to social functions
    All life is a social function.
    Well there are social functions like the local hospital dinner dance

    and social functions

    such as you walk into an alley to find five guys gang raping a girl

    I suspect that your principles work for the former but not the latter
    I don't think any of my rules would be invalidated in such a situation, not that I have been in it.

    I would risk assess the situation to determine the best way of minimising harm and maximising successful prosecution of the individuals. I have training in non-violent de-escalation of threatening situations.
    Yes you have training in deescalating a gang rape so they all go away embarressed.....sorry dont believe it
    This a problem as well with pb not only are most rich they also have little experience of the worse streets in town
    Shall we get into a four yorkshireman sketch? I live in a poor area and was poor growing up too, I just have minimal expenditure, I cannot help that I have 'middle class' stamped on my personality.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,189
    Brexit looks even dumber today than it did yesterday, part 985384354735474547 in an ongoing series...

    @MatinaStevis

    SCOOP: Canada is in advanced talks to participate in the new EU military industry project, highlighting how traditional US allies are teaming up to Trump-proof their military production. The budding deal would see Canada get EU contracts to build in Canadian factories.

    @faisalislam

    Very interesting - this is the new EU defence procurement cooperation project that for now the UK is not joining, but Canada is joining, after new PM Carney diplomatic push…
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,111
    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Looks like I won't be allowed to visit America for at least the next four years.

    "This measure was apparently taken by the American authorities because the researcher's phone contained exchanges with colleagues and friends in which he expressed a personal opinion on the Trump administration's research policy"

    When do we start to call this by its name? A French researcher has his phone and laptop confiscated and is refused entry because of personal messages found in a "random search" at the border criticizing Trump.

    https://x.com/shashj/status/1902446261824807412

    Was the Frenchman rather swarthy of complexion perchance?

    It does sound as if Constable Savage is alive and well, and working for ICE.

    https://youtu.be/xGxjnD42iw0?feature=shared
    I was just thinking the other day that I'm surprised that 'swarthy' hasn't made a comeback in the Reform era.
    Dusky?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,189
    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Looks like I won't be allowed to visit America for at least the next four years.

    "This measure was apparently taken by the American authorities because the researcher's phone contained exchanges with colleagues and friends in which he expressed a personal opinion on the Trump administration's research policy"

    When do we start to call this by its name? A French researcher has his phone and laptop confiscated and is refused entry because of personal messages found in a "random search" at the border criticizing Trump.

    https://x.com/shashj/status/1902446261824807412

    Was the Frenchman rather swarthy of complexion perchance?

    It does sound as if Constable Savage is alive and well, and working for ICE.

    https://youtu.be/xGxjnD42iw0?feature=shared
    I was just thinking the other day that I'm surprised that 'swarthy' hasn't made a comeback in the Reform era.
    Dusky?
    Is swarthy the masculine, and dusky the feminine?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,506
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the food like in Uruguay?

    Bit dull, I’m afraid - like nearly all of Latin America

    If you like hefty sausages and nice steaks, day after day, you’re in heaven

    I’ve just written a Kanpper’s Gazette article on why the food in the ex-Iberian colonies is almost universally dreary (the Philippines is the one place in SE Asia with shite food, in an area otherwise blessed)

    But they do have the wine. Ah, the wine
    With apologies for linking to a part-time writer - this was the first time I read about 'the steak situation' in Latin America :

    https://idlewords.com/2006/04/argentina_on_two_steaks_a_day.htm

    (he has some rather good bits about travel all round. Not in flint-knapper league of course. But I remember his first trip to the middle-east, being woken day after day by the call for prayer. "It was a sad day when Islam met electronic amplification.")
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,547
    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    From last thread, directed to @kinabalu :

    So you are a self-confessed tax-avoider for all your left-of-centre champagne socialism. Such hypocrisy that is so typical of Labour supporters, particularly personified by Rayner and her two council house sales, Starmer and his tax-free benefit in kind clothing and Reeves with her lies on her CV and dodgy attitude to expenses.

    You believe that you are some sort of special case, and your virtue is unsullied because you vote for the Labour Party

    How nice of you to repeat your unpleasant jibes so more people can see them!
    If someone is claiming murder is wrong but its allowed in law if its murder of a lower class person and they murder someone....would you not call them out on it even if what they did was legal?

    There are things that are legal I wouldn't do because I believe them to be wrong and not what I believe in, Kinablu says these things are wrong but does them because he can and it benefits him is the point
    There are also things that are legal that I don't do because I believe them to be wrong. Eg wearing speedos on the heath.

    But on this tax thing. You're seriously suggesting that left wing political views should be penalised with a higher effective tax rate than everybody else?

    C'mon that's a total joke. Stop messing around. This is a forum of national repute.
    Hypocrisy always gets called out.

    See the US politicians who denounce “nationalised healthcare”, while using the free comprehensive insurance (nothing excluded), for life, provided by 5 minutes membership of the Senate or Congress.
    Hypocrisy is a sloppily used term. It means do as I say not as I do.

    Thus if (say) you slag people off for using a tax break but do it yourself. That's hypocrisy.

    But if you simply express a view that the break shouldn't be available (and would support its removal) but use it yourself, that isn't.
    So people who advocated the abolition of slavery, while keeping slaves….
    Ooo edge case. But no I'll stick with my guns. "Hypocrisy" doesn't quite nail that. Course their general anti-slavery credentials would be somewhat strengthened by not having any.
    So let's look at a more reasonable example. I am fervently against Grammar schools for lots of reasons, but if I had lived in an area with Grammar schools and my kids got in I would certainly have sent them. Am I a hypocrite? I don't think so. I'm not going to move out of the area because they have that system and much of the damage of Grammars is to the Secondaries that come as a consequence and I'm not going to martyr my kids because of my principles.
    I think it depends how you'd expressed your opposition to grammar schools.

    If that it's not the system we should really have, but since we do you'd use it, that seems fine.

    If someone suggests the system of grammars is a moral outrage, then I think it would be hypocritical to use it.
    Oh dear that is a problem for me kle4 because I am in the moral outrage camp. Luckily I was never in that position with my kids, but what would you suggest I do? Sacrifice my children's future by keeping to the moral high ground or be a hypocrite?

    I'm happy being a hypocrite if that is what is necessary.

    Let's say your partner will die if they don't have a drug, but you are anti private health care and that is the only way you can get it and you can afford it easily. Would you sacrifice your partner on that principle?
    One of the things I found rather disturbing about Jeremy Corbyn was that by his own admission he divorced his wife because she wanted to send their son to a Grammar school and he disagreed.

    I am sorry but if you are willing to give up your son and your wife for your political beliefs then that marks you as aan extremist in my eyes.
    There you go. But the other way he'd have been (on the sloppy @Nigel_Foremain metric) a hypocrite.

    I'm with you btw. Putting your politics above your family smacks of zealotry.

    Principles, yes, great, but don't go right up yourself with them. That's off-putting.
    You have principles or you don't sorry.
    If you have principles you don't violate them because it is convenient for you that means they aren't principles
    No, you have views and opinions, some of which will be sufficiently dear to you to be called "principles".
    They aren't views and opinions they are absolutes I live by.
    You think it being merely views and opinions demeans you not me
    There is a rather simple solution to this, which is a classic case of irregular verb approach.

    Since you are human you must have not lived up to some view at some point. However you maintain you would not do so on your principles. Ergo, you probably have views and opinions you have not lived up to, and this is just a dispute on what you regard as people being overdramatic by describing their views as principles.

    If a principle is just something people never bend on then no-one has ever violated their principles, since by definition they cannot.
    So far I have never violated one of my principles, not saying it couldn't happen I only have a few however

    I have never struck a woman
    I have never raped
    I have always payed full tax without seeking to avoid it
    I have never killed anyone when maiming was sufficient
    I have never maimed someone when injuring them was sufficient
    I have never injured someone when a harsh word was enough
    I have never taken from someone things they need
    I have always helped the less fortunate where I can

    These are the principles I live by and yes not violated one as yet
    The highly disturbing implication of that sentence is that you have decided, on occasion, that maiming was not sufficient - and killed someone.
    My principles and rules for life are simpler.

    1) Never drink straight from a bottle. Insist on a glass.

    2) Never wear sportswear except when participating in sport.

    3) At social events, always spend some time talking to the oldest person in the room.

    That pretty much covers it really.
    Those principles are great but fairly specific to social functions
    All life is a social function.
    Well there are social functions like the local hospital dinner dance

    and social functions

    such as you walk into an alley to find five guys gang raping a girl

    I suspect that your principles work for the former but not the latter
    I don't think any of my rules would be invalidated in such a situation, not that I have been in it.

    I would risk assess the situation to determine the best way of minimising harm and maximising successful prosecution of the individuals. I have training in non-violent de-escalation of threatening situations.
    Yes you have training in deescalating a gang rape so they all go away embarressed.....sorry dont believe it
    This a problem as well with pb not only are most rich they also have little experience of the worse streets in town
    Shall we get into a four yorkshireman sketch? I live in a poor area and was poor growing up too, I just have minimal expenditure, I cannot help that I have 'middle class' stamped on my personality.
    I wasn't saying everyone was generalising but as an anecdote

    I had a friend who was sitting in his flat watching tv...door gets kicked in they walk in steal the tv he is watching, no masks because they know he wont give a description....how many on pb do you think have experienced that or friends that have?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,413
    Andy_JS said:

    "Stats for Lefties 🍉🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats

    🔵 CON 25% (-)
    🔴 LAB 25% (-4)
    🟣 REF 23% (+1)
    🟠 LD 11% (-)
    🟢 GRN 9% (+1)

    Via @DeltapollUK, 14-17 Mar (+/- vs 17-20 Jan)"

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1902448125190496346

    Centre Right 73%.







    (I kid, I kid...)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,247
    ...
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Wow. Hodges pulls no punches as he tears into Starmer's administration over welfare:

    Remember what people were told they were voting for last July: ‘Change’. And what were they presented with yesterday? The spectacle of a Labour minister – a Labour minister – aggressively confronting anyone who had the gall to question whether demanding that the most vulnerable in society again make the greatest sacrifices was really morally or economically sustainable.

    A storm is coming. The British people have had enough. They are not going to tolerate another parade of ministers in tight grey suits, sporting red – rather than blue – ties, telling them those in most need have to do with less.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14514899/DAN-HODGES-Labour-minister-Newsnight-Keir-Starmer.html

    As I keep pointing out, Blairism DOES NOT WORK in the 2020s. We tried corporatism in 1945-1979: it had its day and then it died. We tried neoliberalism in 1980-2019: it had its day and then it died. This warmed-over rotting-fish neoliberalism is not working and requires Labour to act out of character: if it isn't there to defend the old and the sick, what the hell is it there for? When is the "taxing the rich" bit due to kick in? They aren't going to do that because Blairism could afford not to do so, but these days you have to.

    Honestly Morgan McSweeney, if you read PB, please do the bloody maths, yes?
    You can’t tax the rich any more because the rich are ever more mobile, as Covid and WFH and the interweb have shown

    Britain is already suffering a profound exodus of rich people, more than any other nation on earth. At the same time sunnier places without terror attacks, migration nightmares and machete-wielding Rolex robbers are attracting these rich people (often the young) with digital nomad visas and very low taxes

    The Treasury is well aware of this, hence Labour backtracking on non doms and desperately trying to change its rhetoric on wealth

    If you want our tax base to entirely disappear, go ahead an impose a wealth tax, and see how much rain mobile wealthy people are willing to tolerate in return for, uhm, ah, the brilliance of the NHS?

    I don't know whether Viewcode thinks he is being insightful with this facile critique of 'neoliberalism' but it is utter tripe.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,189
    @nytimes.com‬

    Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has suggested allowing bird flu to spread, so as to identify birds that may be immune. Veterinary scientists said that would be inhumane, dangerous and have enormous economic consequences.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,111
    Scott_xP said:

    @nytimes.com‬

    Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has suggested allowing bird flu to spread, so as to identify birds that may be immune. Veterinary scientists said that would be inhumane, dangerous and have enormous economic consequences.

    So it'll become policy then?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,547
    Scott_xP said:

    @nytimes.com‬

    Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has suggested allowing bird flu to spread, so as to identify birds that may be immune. Veterinary scientists said that would be inhumane, dangerous and have enormous economic consequences.

    RFK jr is an idiot it is hardly news
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,493
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Stats for Lefties 🍉🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats

    🔵 CON 25% (-)
    🔴 LAB 25% (-4)
    🟣 REF 23% (+1)
    🟠 LD 11% (-)
    🟢 GRN 9% (+1)

    Via @DeltapollUK, 14-17 Mar (+/- vs 17-20 Jan)"

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1902448125190496346

    Centre Right 73%.







    (I kid, I kid...)
    When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the People's Stick.

    Mikhail Bakunin
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,831
    edited March 19
    Scott_xP said:

    @nytimes.com‬

    Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has suggested allowing bird flu to spread, so as to identify birds that may be immune. Veterinary scientists said that would be inhumane, dangerous and have enormous economic consequences.

    Think the price of eggs was too high?
    And.
    More inhumane than current US poultry farm practices?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,368
    .
    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How fucked is the US? part 45584763425474534 of an ongoing series...

    DOGE illegally occupied a private building by coercing the security guards

    Marisa Kabas

    Wow. Judge Howell is worried that if she orders DOGE to leave the USIP building it could turn into an “armed standoff” over unwillingness to vacate, and points out law enforcement has shown willingness to help DOGE. Asks if we’ll need foreign mediators to come in.

    https://bsky.app/profile/marisakabas.bsky.social/post/3lkqyjeozok2x

    Do you know I'm genuinely pissed off by all this. The Americans are turning the alleged land of the free into an corrupt autocracy and the Democrats are just gaping like dying fish, and the British allegedly left wing party is acting like it's 1997 and there's a end-of-the-Cold-War bonus. They are clever people, or pretend to be. If I can see it, why can't they?
    The Democratic leadership isn't rising to the moment.
    But I suspect they won't last too long, as the dissatisfaction with them has gone off the scale in the last week..
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,831
    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Stats for Lefties 🍉🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats

    🔵 CON 25% (-)
    🔴 LAB 25% (-4)
    🟣 REF 23% (+1)
    🟠 LD 11% (-)
    🟢 GRN 9% (+1)

    Via @DeltapollUK, 14-17 Mar (+/- vs 17-20 Jan)"

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1902448125190496346

    Centre Right 73%.







    (I kid, I kid...)
    When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the People's Stick.

    Mikhail Bakunin
    Hit me slowly, hit me quick.

    Ian Dury.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,189
    Nigelb said:

    .

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How fucked is the US? part 45584763425474534 of an ongoing series...

    DOGE illegally occupied a private building by coercing the security guards

    Marisa Kabas

    Wow. Judge Howell is worried that if she orders DOGE to leave the USIP building it could turn into an “armed standoff” over unwillingness to vacate, and points out law enforcement has shown willingness to help DOGE. Asks if we’ll need foreign mediators to come in.

    https://bsky.app/profile/marisakabas.bsky.social/post/3lkqyjeozok2x

    Do you know I'm genuinely pissed off by all this. The Americans are turning the alleged land of the free into an corrupt autocracy and the Democrats are just gaping like dying fish, and the British allegedly left wing party is acting like it's 1997 and there's a end-of-the-Cold-War bonus. They are clever people, or pretend to be. If I can see it, why can't they?
    The Democratic leadership isn't rising to the moment.
    But I suspect they won't last too long, as the dissatisfaction with them has gone off the scale in the last week..
    Schumer is about to get Chucked...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,847
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Wow. Hodges pulls no punches as he tears into Starmer's administration over welfare:

    Remember what people were told they were voting for last July: ‘Change’. And what were they presented with yesterday? The spectacle of a Labour minister – a Labour minister – aggressively confronting anyone who had the gall to question whether demanding that the most vulnerable in society again make the greatest sacrifices was really morally or economically sustainable.

    A storm is coming. The British people have had enough. They are not going to tolerate another parade of ministers in tight grey suits, sporting red – rather than blue – ties, telling them those in most need have to do with less.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14514899/DAN-HODGES-Labour-minister-Newsnight-Keir-Starmer.html

    As I keep pointing out, Blairism DOES NOT WORK in the 2020s. We tried corporatism in 1945-1979: it had its day and then it died. We tried neoliberalism in 1980-2019: it had its day and then it died. This warmed-over rotting-fish neoliberalism is not working and requires Labour to act out of character: if it isn't there to defend the old and the sick, what the hell is it there for? When is the "taxing the rich" bit due to kick in? They aren't going to do that because Blairism could afford not to do so, but these days you have to.

    Honestly Morgan McSweeney, if you read PB, please do the bloody maths, yes?
    You can’t tax the rich any more because the rich are ever more mobile, as Covid and WFH and the interweb have shown

    Britain is already suffering a profound exodus of rich people, more than any other nation on earth. At the same time sunnier places without terror attacks, migration nightmares and machete-wielding Rolex robbers are attracting these rich people (often the young) with digital nomad visas and very low taxes

    The Treasury is well aware of this, hence Labour backtracking on non doms and desperately trying to change its rhetoric on wealth

    If you want our tax base to entirely disappear, go ahead an impose a wealth tax, and see how much rain mobile wealthy people are willing to tolerate in return for, uhm, ah, the brilliance of the NHS?

    You have to tax something.

    You can't run a nation state on debt indefinitely and I don't care what Modern Monetary Theory says. If you can't tax people, tax land. If you can't tax land, tax houses. If you can't tax houses, tax luxury goods. Stop thinking you can enjoy an entire economy and culture and hundreds of nuclear warheads to avenge your death based on nothing but more and more interest payments and more and more debt. It isn't working.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,547
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Wow. Hodges pulls no punches as he tears into Starmer's administration over welfare:

    Remember what people were told they were voting for last July: ‘Change’. And what were they presented with yesterday? The spectacle of a Labour minister – a Labour minister – aggressively confronting anyone who had the gall to question whether demanding that the most vulnerable in society again make the greatest sacrifices was really morally or economically sustainable.

    A storm is coming. The British people have had enough. They are not going to tolerate another parade of ministers in tight grey suits, sporting red – rather than blue – ties, telling them those in most need have to do with less.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14514899/DAN-HODGES-Labour-minister-Newsnight-Keir-Starmer.html

    As I keep pointing out, Blairism DOES NOT WORK in the 2020s. We tried corporatism in 1945-1979: it had its day and then it died. We tried neoliberalism in 1980-2019: it had its day and then it died. This warmed-over rotting-fish neoliberalism is not working and requires Labour to act out of character: if it isn't there to defend the old and the sick, what the hell is it there for? When is the "taxing the rich" bit due to kick in? They aren't going to do that because Blairism could afford not to do so, but these days you have to.

    Honestly Morgan McSweeney, if you read PB, please do the bloody maths, yes?
    You can’t tax the rich any more because the rich are ever more mobile, as Covid and WFH and the interweb have shown

    Britain is already suffering a profound exodus of rich people, more than any other nation on earth. At the same time sunnier places without terror attacks, migration nightmares and machete-wielding Rolex robbers are attracting these rich people (often the young) with digital nomad visas and very low taxes

    The Treasury is well aware of this, hence Labour backtracking on non doms and desperately trying to change its rhetoric on wealth

    If you want our tax base to entirely disappear, go ahead an impose a wealth tax, and see how much rain mobile wealthy people are willing to tolerate in return for, uhm, ah, the brilliance of the NHS?

    You have to tax something.

    You can't run a nation state on debt indefinitely and I don't care what Modern Monetary Theory says. If you can't tax people, tax land. If you can't tax land, tax houses. If you can't tax houses, tax luxury goods. Stop thinking you can enjoy an entire economy and culture and hundreds of nuclear warheads to avenge your death based on nothing but more and more interest payments and more and more debt. It isn't working.
    Of course it isnt
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,847

    ...

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Wow. Hodges pulls no punches as he tears into Starmer's administration over welfare:

    Remember what people were told they were voting for last July: ‘Change’. And what were they presented with yesterday? The spectacle of a Labour minister – a Labour minister – aggressively confronting anyone who had the gall to question whether demanding that the most vulnerable in society again make the greatest sacrifices was really morally or economically sustainable.

    A storm is coming. The British people have had enough. They are not going to tolerate another parade of ministers in tight grey suits, sporting red – rather than blue – ties, telling them those in most need have to do with less.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14514899/DAN-HODGES-Labour-minister-Newsnight-Keir-Starmer.html

    As I keep pointing out, Blairism DOES NOT WORK in the 2020s. We tried corporatism in 1945-1979: it had its day and then it died. We tried neoliberalism in 1980-2019: it had its day and then it died. This warmed-over rotting-fish neoliberalism is not working and requires Labour to act out of character: if it isn't there to defend the old and the sick, what the hell is it there for? When is the "taxing the rich" bit due to kick in? They aren't going to do that because Blairism could afford not to do so, but these days you have to.

    Honestly Morgan McSweeney, if you read PB, please do the bloody maths, yes?
    You can’t tax the rich any more because the rich are ever more mobile, as Covid and WFH and the interweb have shown

    Britain is already suffering a profound exodus of rich people, more than any other nation on earth. At the same time sunnier places without terror attacks, migration nightmares and machete-wielding Rolex robbers are attracting these rich people (often the young) with digital nomad visas and very low taxes

    The Treasury is well aware of this, hence Labour backtracking on non doms and desperately trying to change its rhetoric on wealth

    If you want our tax base to entirely disappear, go ahead an impose a wealth tax, and see how much rain mobile wealthy people are willing to tolerate in return for, uhm, ah, the brilliance of the NHS?

    I don't know whether Viewcode thinks he is being insightful with this facile critique of 'neoliberalism' but it is utter tripe.
    If you have a better idea, I'm not stopping you writing it down.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,493
    Nigelb said:

    .

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How fucked is the US? part 45584763425474534 of an ongoing series...

    DOGE illegally occupied a private building by coercing the security guards

    Marisa Kabas

    Wow. Judge Howell is worried that if she orders DOGE to leave the USIP building it could turn into an “armed standoff” over unwillingness to vacate, and points out law enforcement has shown willingness to help DOGE. Asks if we’ll need foreign mediators to come in.

    https://bsky.app/profile/marisakabas.bsky.social/post/3lkqyjeozok2x

    Do you know I'm genuinely pissed off by all this. The Americans are turning the alleged land of the free into an corrupt autocracy and the Democrats are just gaping like dying fish, and the British allegedly left wing party is acting like it's 1997 and there's a end-of-the-Cold-War bonus. They are clever people, or pretend to be. If I can see it, why can't they?
    The Democratic leadership isn't rising to the moment.
    But I suspect they won't last too long, as the dissatisfaction with them has gone off the scale in the last week..
    There are few Dems that are standing up to be counted. Sanders and AOC most notably, but a few others too. Walz and Pritzker too.

    It's hard for them to get air time or Social Media coverage with the msm so cowed, and the SM companies being active Trump collaborators.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,292
    More evidence of Dem delusion:

    “Schumer was bullish on everything, especially after Biden’s dramatic exit from the race.

    “He liked telling people that Robert Caro, the famed biographer of President Lyndon B Johnson, had referred to him, Schumer, as the ‘Jewish LBJ’. So, he let himself fantasize about Democrats winning everything, the White House, the Senate, and the dysfunctional House and steamrolling through progressive legislation that would have him live up to the moniker.


    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/mar/19/chuck-schumer-trump-book
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,189
    Musk is currently donating money to GOP senators who said they will impeach judges

    @joshuaerlich.bsky.social‬

    increasingly convinced that DOGE isn't so much an office of the white house or a federal advisory committee as much as it is a criminal organization in the RICO sense
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,368
    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit looks even dumber today than it did yesterday, part 985384354735474547 in an ongoing series...

    @MatinaStevis

    SCOOP: Canada is in advanced talks to participate in the new EU military industry project, highlighting how traditional US allies are teaming up to Trump-proof their military production. The budding deal would see Canada get EU contracts to build in Canadian factories.

    @faisalislam

    Very interesting - this is the new EU defence procurement cooperation project that for now the UK is not joining, but Canada is joining, after new PM Carney diplomatic push…

    Why is the UK not signing up ?
    It would be good for both security and business.

    Is this some misguided attempt to stay in with Trump ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,238
    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit looks even dumber today than it did yesterday, part 985384354735474547 in an ongoing series...

    @MatinaStevis

    SCOOP: Canada is in advanced talks to participate in the new EU military industry project, highlighting how traditional US allies are teaming up to Trump-proof their military production. The budding deal would see Canada get EU contracts to build in Canadian factories.

    @faisalislam

    Very interesting - this is the new EU defence procurement cooperation project that for now the UK is not joining, but Canada is joining, after new PM Carney diplomatic push…

    Does that not make the EU look dumb?
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 256
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Wow. Hodges pulls no punches as he tears into Starmer's administration over welfare:

    Remember what people were told they were voting for last July: ‘Change’. And what were they presented with yesterday? The spectacle of a Labour minister – a Labour minister – aggressively confronting anyone who had the gall to question whether demanding that the most vulnerable in society again make the greatest sacrifices was really morally or economically sustainable.

    A storm is coming. The British people have had enough. They are not going to tolerate another parade of ministers in tight grey suits, sporting red – rather than blue – ties, telling them those in most need have to do with less.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14514899/DAN-HODGES-Labour-minister-Newsnight-Keir-Starmer.html

    As I keep pointing out, Blairism DOES NOT WORK in the 2020s. We tried corporatism in 1945-1979: it had its day and then it died. We tried neoliberalism in 1980-2019: it had its day and then it died. This warmed-over rotting-fish neoliberalism is not working and requires Labour to act out of character: if it isn't there to defend the old and the sick, what the hell is it there for? When is the "taxing the rich" bit due to kick in? They aren't going to do that because Blairism could afford not to do so, but these days you have to.

    Honestly Morgan McSweeney, if you read PB, please do the bloody maths, yes?
    You can’t tax the rich any more because the rich are ever more mobile, as Covid and WFH and the interweb have shown

    Britain is already suffering a profound exodus of rich people, more than any other nation on earth. At the same time sunnier places without terror attacks, migration nightmares and machete-wielding Rolex robbers are attracting these rich people (often the young) with digital nomad visas and very low taxes

    The Treasury is well aware of this, hence Labour backtracking on non doms and desperately trying to change its rhetoric on wealth

    If you want our tax base to entirely disappear, go ahead an impose a wealth tax, and see how much rain mobile wealthy people are willing to tolerate in return for, uhm, ah, the brilliance of the NHS?

    You have to tax something.

    You can't run a nation state on debt indefinitely and I don't care what Modern Monetary Theory says. If you can't tax people, tax land. If you can't tax land, tax houses. If you can't tax houses, tax luxury goods. Stop thinking you can enjoy an entire economy and culture and hundreds of nuclear warheads to avenge your death based on nothing but more and more interest payments and more and more debt. It isn't working.
    You can cut spending first. Let's start with £18billion for Chagos, £11billion for climate and god knows how much for foreign aid first. Oh and slash welfare in half.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,965
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Wow. Hodges pulls no punches as he tears into Starmer's administration over welfare:

    Remember what people were told they were voting for last July: ‘Change’. And what were they presented with yesterday? The spectacle of a Labour minister – a Labour minister – aggressively confronting anyone who had the gall to question whether demanding that the most vulnerable in society again make the greatest sacrifices was really morally or economically sustainable.

    A storm is coming. The British people have had enough. They are not going to tolerate another parade of ministers in tight grey suits, sporting red – rather than blue – ties, telling them those in most need have to do with less.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14514899/DAN-HODGES-Labour-minister-Newsnight-Keir-Starmer.html

    As I keep pointing out, Blairism DOES NOT WORK in the 2020s. We tried corporatism in 1945-1979: it had its day and then it died. We tried neoliberalism in 1980-2019: it had its day and then it died. This warmed-over rotting-fish neoliberalism is not working and requires Labour to act out of character: if it isn't there to defend the old and the sick, what the hell is it there for? When is the "taxing the rich" bit due to kick in? They aren't going to do that because Blairism could afford not to do so, but these days you have to.

    Honestly Morgan McSweeney, if you read PB, please do the bloody maths, yes?
    You can’t tax the rich any more because the rich are ever more mobile, as Covid and WFH and the interweb have shown

    Britain is already suffering a profound exodus of rich people, more than any other nation on earth. At the same time sunnier places without terror attacks, migration nightmares and machete-wielding Rolex robbers are attracting these rich people (often the young) with digital nomad visas and very low taxes

    The Treasury is well aware of this, hence Labour backtracking on non doms and desperately trying to change its rhetoric on wealth

    If you want our tax base to entirely disappear, go ahead an impose a wealth tax, and see how much rain mobile wealthy people are willing to tolerate in return for, uhm, ah, the brilliance of the NHS?

    You have to tax something.

    You can't run a nation state on debt indefinitely and I don't care what Modern Monetary Theory says. If you can't tax people, tax land. If you can't tax land, tax houses. If you can't tax houses, tax luxury goods. Stop thinking you can enjoy an entire economy and culture and hundreds of nuclear warheads to avenge your death based on nothing but more and more interest payments and more and more debt. It isn't working.
    First on the list of what should be taxed more is people owning very expensive properties in London that they hardly ever, if ever, live in.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,758
    This evening's Coronation Street covered whether pineapple on pizza is a "crime against humanity".

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,813
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit looks even dumber today than it did yesterday, part 985384354735474547 in an ongoing series...

    @MatinaStevis

    SCOOP: Canada is in advanced talks to participate in the new EU military industry project, highlighting how traditional US allies are teaming up to Trump-proof their military production. The budding deal would see Canada get EU contracts to build in Canadian factories.

    @faisalislam

    Very interesting - this is the new EU defence procurement cooperation project that for now the UK is not joining, but Canada is joining, after new PM Carney diplomatic push…

    Why is the UK not signing up ?
    It would be good for both security and business.

    Is this some misguided attempt to stay in with Trump ?
    The FT has a much more nuanced take on it, and of course if Europe wants a defence pact it is not viable without UK involvement

    Also Canada has a huge involvement with US military equipment as indeed does Europe

    Europe needs to understand it is not a them and us if they want European defence security against Russia and other hostile states
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,965
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Stats for Lefties 🍉🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats

    🔵 CON 25% (-)
    🔴 LAB 25% (-4)
    🟣 REF 23% (+1)
    🟠 LD 11% (-)
    🟢 GRN 9% (+1)

    Via @DeltapollUK, 14-17 Mar (+/- vs 17-20 Jan)"

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1902448125190496346

    I'm disappointed that because we have both Greens and LDs we cannot get a 4th party in the 20s.

    (Yes I know their two scores would not combine if the other were not there).
    LDs and Greens should do a deal because, with only a few exceptions, their support is concentrated in different types of constituencies.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,758
    Scott_xP said:

    Musk is currently donating money to GOP senators who said they will impeach judges

    @joshuaerlich.bsky.social‬

    increasingly convinced that DOGE isn't so much an office of the white house or a federal advisory committee as much as it is a criminal organization in the RICO sense

    One day, I predict, he will wake up in a cell in a jump suit.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,493
    Nunu3 said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Wow. Hodges pulls no punches as he tears into Starmer's administration over welfare:

    Remember what people were told they were voting for last July: ‘Change’. And what were they presented with yesterday? The spectacle of a Labour minister – a Labour minister – aggressively confronting anyone who had the gall to question whether demanding that the most vulnerable in society again make the greatest sacrifices was really morally or economically sustainable.

    A storm is coming. The British people have had enough. They are not going to tolerate another parade of ministers in tight grey suits, sporting red – rather than blue – ties, telling them those in most need have to do with less.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14514899/DAN-HODGES-Labour-minister-Newsnight-Keir-Starmer.html

    As I keep pointing out, Blairism DOES NOT WORK in the 2020s. We tried corporatism in 1945-1979: it had its day and then it died. We tried neoliberalism in 1980-2019: it had its day and then it died. This warmed-over rotting-fish neoliberalism is not working and requires Labour to act out of character: if it isn't there to defend the old and the sick, what the hell is it there for? When is the "taxing the rich" bit due to kick in? They aren't going to do that because Blairism could afford not to do so, but these days you have to.

    Honestly Morgan McSweeney, if you read PB, please do the bloody maths, yes?
    You can’t tax the rich any more because the rich are ever more mobile, as Covid and WFH and the interweb have shown

    Britain is already suffering a profound exodus of rich people, more than any other nation on earth. At the same time sunnier places without terror attacks, migration nightmares and machete-wielding Rolex robbers are attracting these rich people (often the young) with digital nomad visas and very low taxes

    The Treasury is well aware of this, hence Labour backtracking on non doms and desperately trying to change its rhetoric on wealth

    If you want our tax base to entirely disappear, go ahead an impose a wealth tax, and see how much rain mobile wealthy people are willing to tolerate in return for, uhm, ah, the brilliance of the NHS?

    You have to tax something.

    You can't run a nation state on debt indefinitely and I don't care what Modern Monetary Theory says. If you can't tax people, tax land. If you can't tax land, tax houses. If you can't tax houses, tax luxury goods. Stop thinking you can enjoy an entire economy and culture and hundreds of nuclear warheads to avenge your death based on nothing but more and more interest payments and more and more debt. It isn't working.
    You can cut spending first. Let's start with £18billion for Chagos, £11billion for climate and god knows how much for foreign aid first. Oh and slash welfare in half.
    Foreign Aid has just been slashed in half(and much of the remaining half is spent in the UK), the Chagos Deal is still being negotiated, and is over a century so has no instant payoff, and slashing welfare is not easy, with even today's modest cuts inflicting lots of misery, and saving only a little by the end of the parliament. The CChange fund is also spread over a decade.

    There simply are not massive cuts to be made, mostly because folk are very ignorant about where the money actually goes.

    High tax rates are not incompatible with a strong economy. Indeed the strongest decades of post war growth both here and in the UK were in times of high rates of income tax.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,368
    Leon said:

    To raise the tone above the likes of @kinabalu and @kjh - this is why my tour guide was so amazing

    He met me at the cathedral and we spent a pleasant couple of hours touring pleasant, safe, unexciting Montevideo

    Then there was a thunderstorm and we were forced inside a very atmospheric old cafe (Caffe Braziliano). 19th century. Great coffee. At this point he opened up about his prior life in the Uruguayan army - mainly in their UN peacekeeping force (I had no idea Uruguay did so much peacekeeping)

    By the time we got to the famous old market in the port for a famous Uruguayan barbecue lunch we’d bonded so much he admitted that not only had he spent years in the Congo and Georgia (where he was held hostage at gunpoint for a week) in his UN mission, he was also in Rwanda (again for the UN) where he witnessed, personally, the entire genocide from before it began to the aftermath - seeing the killings, driving through corpses, everything. He showed me the evidence and discussed how it changed him

    Maybe the most compelling single hour of conversation I’ve ever had. To arrive BEFORE that genocide and leave AFTER. What does that do to you? He tried to explain and he was very articulate

    To accompany this extraordinary conversation we had excellent steaks, chorizo, provolone, a good bottle of Tannat red wine and this secret Uruguayan wine they call “half and half”



    This is one reason I love my job

    Interesting story (though why the unnecessary dig at a couple of PBers ?).

    I didn't know there were Uruguayan members of the UN forces in Rwanda during the genocide.
    They are not mentioned here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roméo_Dallaire
    I'd be interested to hear more of his story.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,189

    Scott_xP said:

    Musk is currently donating money to GOP senators who said they will impeach judges

    @joshuaerlich.bsky.social‬

    increasingly convinced that DOGE isn't so much an office of the white house or a federal advisory committee as much as it is a criminal organization in the RICO sense

    One day, I predict, he will wake up in a cell in a jump suit.

    That is one possible future. There are other timelines, and we seem destined to follow the darkest/dumbest of them all...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,292
    Scott_xP said:

    Musk is currently donating money to GOP senators who said they will impeach judges

    @joshuaerlich.bsky.social‬

    increasingly convinced that DOGE isn't so much an office of the white house or a federal advisory committee as much as it is a criminal organization in the RICO sense

    Senators to do not impeach anyone.

    The House impeaches and then the Senate convicts or not, with a two thirds majority needed for conviction.

    Musk can give as much money as he wants but cannot achieve anything by doing this.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,558
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    To raise the tone above the likes of @kinabalu and @kjh - this is why my tour guide was so amazing

    He met me at the cathedral and we spent a pleasant couple of hours touring pleasant, safe, unexciting Montevideo

    Then there was a thunderstorm and we were forced inside a very atmospheric old cafe (Caffe Braziliano). 19th century. Great coffee. At this point he opened up about his prior life in the Uruguayan army - mainly in their UN peacekeeping force (I had no idea Uruguay did so much peacekeeping)

    By the time we got to the famous old market in the port for a famous Uruguayan barbecue lunch we’d bonded so much he admitted that not only had he spent years in the Congo and Georgia (where he was held hostage at gunpoint for a week) in his UN mission, he was also in Rwanda (again for the UN) where he witnessed, personally, the entire genocide from before it began to the aftermath - seeing the killings, driving through corpses, everything. He showed me the evidence and discussed how it changed him

    Maybe the most compelling single hour of conversation I’ve ever had. To arrive BEFORE that genocide and leave AFTER. What does that do to you? He tried to explain and he was very articulate

    To accompany this extraordinary conversation we had excellent steaks, chorizo, provolone, a good bottle of Tannat red wine and this secret Uruguayan wine they call “half and half”



    This is one reason I love my job

    Interesting story (though why the unnecessary dig at a couple of PBers ?).

    I didn't know there were Uruguayan members of the UN forces in Rwanda during the genocide.
    They are not mentioned here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roméo_Dallaire
    I'd be interested to hear more of his story.
    60 seconds with Google.....

    https://peacekeeping.un.org/sites/default/files/past/unamirF.htm

    "CONTRIBUTORS OF MILITARY AND CIVILIAN POLICE PERSONNEL
    Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chad, Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Fiji, Germany, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Guyana, India, Jordan, Kenya, Malawi, Mali, Netherlands, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation, Senegal, Slovak Republic, Spain, Switzerland, Togo, Tunisia, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Zambia and Zimbabwe"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,758
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Musk is currently donating money to GOP senators who said they will impeach judges

    @joshuaerlich.bsky.social‬

    increasingly convinced that DOGE isn't so much an office of the white house or a federal advisory committee as much as it is a criminal organization in the RICO sense

    One day, I predict, he will wake up in a cell in a jump suit.

    That is one possible future. There are other timelines, and we seem destined to follow the darkest/dumbest of them all...
    America may follow those dark timelines but I feel optimistic that in the end - after a hell of a lot nightmarish trouble - they will deal with this regime.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,111
    edited March 19
    I assume someone is betting on who will be the next head of the IOC. I also assume Coe is too old, and that politics and background money deals are the main indicator of getting the job.

    An important role, I am sure, though I find the 'highest office in sport' to be an odd description of it. Journalists like dramatic descriptions, but it is not as though all other sports roles report to the IOC surely.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/c9812112rxdo

    Whoever wins, there has already been scrutiny of a process lacking transparency, but this will only intensify if Coventry is successful because she is widely seen as Bach's preferred candidate.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,493
    edited March 19

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Musk is currently donating money to GOP senators who said they will impeach judges

    @joshuaerlich.bsky.social‬

    increasingly convinced that DOGE isn't so much an office of the white house or a federal advisory committee as much as it is a criminal organization in the RICO sense

    One day, I predict, he will wake up in a cell in a jump suit.

    That is one possible future. There are other timelines, and we seem destined to follow the darkest/dumbest of them all...
    America may follow those dark timelines but I feel optimistic that in the end - after a hell of a lot nightmarish trouble - they will deal with this regime.
    Historically it has been true that America does the right thing, having tried and exhausted all other options.

    Those days may be gone though.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,813
    edited March 19
    Cyclefree said:
    Listening to Trump's spokesperson tonight it looks like an actual judicial coup is happening to anyone standing in the way of Trump

    I have no idea where this ends for any of us, but it is scary and worrying for millions
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,413
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit looks even dumber today than it did yesterday, part 985384354735474547 in an ongoing series...

    @MatinaStevis

    SCOOP: Canada is in advanced talks to participate in the new EU military industry project, highlighting how traditional US allies are teaming up to Trump-proof their military production. The budding deal would see Canada get EU contracts to build in Canadian factories.

    @faisalislam

    Very interesting - this is the new EU defence procurement cooperation project that for now the UK is not joining, but Canada is joining, after new PM Carney diplomatic push…

    Why is the UK not signing up ?
    It would be good for both security and business.

    Is this some misguided attempt to stay in with Trump ?
    The last I heard we had a defence deal ready to go but the French wanted fishing rights included in it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global/2025/feb/06/fishing-rights-not-derail-eu-uk-security-pact-european-council-president
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,238
    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,866
    It’s incredibly difficult to remove a federal judge but the main concern now is that the disgraceful rhetoric from Musk and the rest of the Trump arselickers leads to even more threats of violence against judges and they may begin to fear making proper decisions based on law .
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,413
    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit looks even dumber today than it did yesterday, part 985384354735474547 in an ongoing series...

    @MatinaStevis

    SCOOP: Canada is in advanced talks to participate in the new EU military industry project, highlighting how traditional US allies are teaming up to Trump-proof their military production. The budding deal would see Canada get EU contracts to build in Canadian factories.

    @faisalislam

    Very interesting - this is the new EU defence procurement cooperation project that for now the UK is not joining, but Canada is joining, after new PM Carney diplomatic push…

    Why is the UK not signing up ?
    It would be good for both security and business.

    Is this some misguided attempt to stay in with Trump ?
    The last I heard we had a defence deal ready to go but the French wanted fishing rights included in it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global/2025/feb/06/fishing-rights-not-derail-eu-uk-security-pact-european-council-president
    To put it another way, I expect a deal to be signed, and Britain to be included.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,813
    nico67 said:

    It’s incredibly difficult to remove a federal judge but the main concern now is that the disgraceful rhetoric from Musk and the rest of the Trump arselickers leads to even more threats of violence against judges and they may begin to fear making proper decisions based on law .

    I genuinely think it is all over for anyone who tries to defy Trump by using the law

    Whoever thought America would become an autocracy run by a narcissistic President with billionaire unelected bullies
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,758
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    To raise the tone above the likes of @kinabalu and @kjh - this is why my tour guide was so amazing

    He met me at the cathedral and we spent a pleasant couple of hours touring pleasant, safe, unexciting Montevideo

    Then there was a thunderstorm and we were forced inside a very atmospheric old cafe (Caffe Braziliano). 19th century. Great coffee. At this point he opened up about his prior life in the Uruguayan army - mainly in their UN peacekeeping force (I had no idea Uruguay did so much peacekeeping)

    By the time we got to the famous old market in the port for a famous Uruguayan barbecue lunch we’d bonded so much he admitted that not only had he spent years in the Congo and Georgia (where he was held hostage at gunpoint for a week) in his UN mission, he was also in Rwanda (again for the UN) where he witnessed, personally, the entire genocide from before it began to the aftermath - seeing the killings, driving through corpses, everything. He showed me the evidence and discussed how it changed him

    Maybe the most compelling single hour of conversation I’ve ever had. To arrive BEFORE that genocide and leave AFTER. What does that do to you? He tried to explain and he was very articulate

    To accompany this extraordinary conversation we had excellent steaks, chorizo, provolone, a good bottle of Tannat red wine and this secret Uruguayan wine they call “half and half”



    This is one reason I love my job

    Interesting story (though why the unnecessary dig at a couple of PBers ?).

    I didn't know there were Uruguayan members of the UN forces in Rwanda during the genocide.
    They are not mentioned here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roméo_Dallaire
    I'd be interested to hear more of his story.
    There's something called UNAMIR

    uruguayans were involved.

    https://peacekeeping.un.org/mission/past/unamir.htm#:~:text=UNITED NATIONS ASSISTANCE MISSION FOR,parties on 4 August 1993.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,010
    Foxy said:

    The Labour candidate in Runcorn looks to be running a Reform-esque campaign:

    https://x.com/maxtempers/status/1902336574894841886

    image

    Not a fag-paper between Reform and Labour?

    Going to be a low turnout.
    If they are going to try that then Labour will lose badly. People will choose the real thing over pallid and unconvincing facsimile.

    Interesting focus groups in Grimsby on C4 News, of both Labour voters and non-voters. Mostly leaning Reform, but complaints about Labour mostly about cutting benefits.

    I know the Face Eating Leopards meme is getting a bit tired, but is there another way to describe this?
    Leopards are graceful beauteous creatures, perhaps something lower down the food chain?
    Face Eating Hyena party or Face Eating Maggots party..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,368
    edited March 19
    .

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    To raise the tone above the likes of @kinabalu and @kjh - this is why my tour guide was so amazing

    He met me at the cathedral and we spent a pleasant couple of hours touring pleasant, safe, unexciting Montevideo

    Then there was a thunderstorm and we were forced inside a very atmospheric old cafe (Caffe Braziliano). 19th century. Great coffee. At this point he opened up about his prior life in the Uruguayan army - mainly in their UN peacekeeping force (I had no idea Uruguay did so much peacekeeping)

    By the time we got to the famous old market in the port for a famous Uruguayan barbecue lunch we’d bonded so much he admitted that not only had he spent years in the Congo and Georgia (where he was held hostage at gunpoint for a week) in his UN mission, he was also in Rwanda (again for the UN) where he witnessed, personally, the entire genocide from before it began to the aftermath - seeing the killings, driving through corpses, everything. He showed me the evidence and discussed how it changed him

    Maybe the most compelling single hour of conversation I’ve ever had. To arrive BEFORE that genocide and leave AFTER. What does that do to you? He tried to explain and he was very articulate

    To accompany this extraordinary conversation we had excellent steaks, chorizo, provolone, a good bottle of Tannat red wine and this secret Uruguayan wine they call “half and half”



    This is one reason I love my job

    Interesting story (though why the unnecessary dig at a couple of PBers ?).

    I didn't know there were Uruguayan members of the UN forces in Rwanda during the genocide.
    They are not mentioned here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roméo_Dallaire
    I'd be interested to hear more of his story.
    60 seconds with Google.....

    https://peacekeeping.un.org/sites/default/files/past/unamirF.htm

    "CONTRIBUTORS OF MILITARY AND CIVILIAN POLICE PERSONNEL
    Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chad, Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Fiji, Germany, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Guyana, India, Jordan, Kenya, Malawi, Mali, Netherlands, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation, Senegal, Slovak Republic, Spain, Switzerland, Togo, Tunisia, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Zambia and Zimbabwe"
    Yes, I just did that myself. My bad.

    Probably only a handful of troops from the countries other than Belgium (the majority, but withdrawn early on) Pakistan, Canada, Ghana, Tunisia, and Bangladesh, though ?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,965
    Montevideo, population 1.3 million, less than B'ham.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,847
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit looks even dumber today than it did yesterday, part 985384354735474547 in an ongoing series...

    @MatinaStevis

    SCOOP: Canada is in advanced talks to participate in the new EU military industry project, highlighting how traditional US allies are teaming up to Trump-proof their military production. The budding deal would see Canada get EU contracts to build in Canadian factories.

    @faisalislam

    Very interesting - this is the new EU defence procurement cooperation project that for now the UK is not joining, but Canada is joining, after new PM Carney diplomatic push…

    Why is the UK not signing up ?
    It would be good for both security and business.

    Is this some misguided attempt to stay in with Trump ?
    France kicked off. The French are very good at cooperating with others, provided you remember that i) they are in charge and ii) they can leave whenever they like.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,965

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,859
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit looks even dumber today than it did yesterday, part 985384354735474547 in an ongoing series...

    @MatinaStevis

    SCOOP: Canada is in advanced talks to participate in the new EU military industry project, highlighting how traditional US allies are teaming up to Trump-proof their military production. The budding deal would see Canada get EU contracts to build in Canadian factories.

    @faisalislam

    Very interesting - this is the new EU defence procurement cooperation project that for now the UK is not joining, but Canada is joining, after new PM Carney diplomatic push…

    Why is the UK not signing up ?
    It would be good for both security and business.

    Is this some misguided attempt to stay in with Trump ?
    France kicked off. The French are very good at cooperating with others, provided you remember that i) they are in charge and ii) they can leave whenever they like.
    Sounds like my marriage.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,847
    Cyclefree said:
    Does this hit your firm (apologies I can't recall if you are still employed there: my swiss-cheese memory has kicked in)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,078
    edited March 19
    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
    I think the question is do these people continue to be disappointed by the main parties but still vote for them or do we see a rise in much much more radical left and right parties* that are common place in Europe. We did for a brief moment see the rise in the BNP in places like Stoke for exactly this reason, it was local people who joined the BNP and were pushing Corbynista economic policies.

    *I don't really see Reform as radical, its a one man party of a bloke who could easily been in the Tories prior to Cameron and is quite to disown anything too radical and its really trying the same trick as Boris promising all the sweeties without any of the pain.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,714

    nico67 said:

    It’s incredibly difficult to remove a federal judge but the main concern now is that the disgraceful rhetoric from Musk and the rest of the Trump arselickers leads to even more threats of violence against judges and they may begin to fear making proper decisions based on law .

    I genuinely think it is all over for anyone who tries to defy Trump by using the law

    Whoever thought America would become an autocracy run by a narcissistic President with billionaire unelected bullies
    The US has been a pretty shaky democracy for some time. The two-party system, blatant gerrymandering, excessive power of the president and poor education of its population, among other things, are not conducive to stability.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,238
    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
    No, I think there's been a marked shift in the last 12 months. There's now much more elite acceptance that Britain is in decline and that mass migration is not working and at the same time large parts of the public have become more radical.

    Paradoxically the election of Labour broke the liberal consensus that had prevailed since Blair.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,847
    Nunu3 said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Wow. Hodges pulls no punches as he tears into Starmer's administration over welfare:

    Remember what people were told they were voting for last July: ‘Change’. And what were they presented with yesterday? The spectacle of a Labour minister – a Labour minister – aggressively confronting anyone who had the gall to question whether demanding that the most vulnerable in society again make the greatest sacrifices was really morally or economically sustainable.

    A storm is coming. The British people have had enough. They are not going to tolerate another parade of ministers in tight grey suits, sporting red – rather than blue – ties, telling them those in most need have to do with less.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14514899/DAN-HODGES-Labour-minister-Newsnight-Keir-Starmer.html

    As I keep pointing out, Blairism DOES NOT WORK in the 2020s. We tried corporatism in 1945-1979: it had its day and then it died. We tried neoliberalism in 1980-2019: it had its day and then it died. This warmed-over rotting-fish neoliberalism is not working and requires Labour to act out of character: if it isn't there to defend the old and the sick, what the hell is it there for? When is the "taxing the rich" bit due to kick in? They aren't going to do that because Blairism could afford not to do so, but these days you have to.

    Honestly Morgan McSweeney, if you read PB, please do the bloody maths, yes?
    You can’t tax the rich any more because the rich are ever more mobile, as Covid and WFH and the interweb have shown

    Britain is already suffering a profound exodus of rich people, more than any other nation on earth. At the same time sunnier places without terror attacks, migration nightmares and machete-wielding Rolex robbers are attracting these rich people (often the young) with digital nomad visas and very low taxes

    The Treasury is well aware of this, hence Labour backtracking on non doms and desperately trying to change its rhetoric on wealth

    If you want our tax base to entirely disappear, go ahead an impose a wealth tax, and see how much rain mobile wealthy people are willing to tolerate in return for, uhm, ah, the brilliance of the NHS?

    You have to tax something.

    You can't run a nation state on debt indefinitely and I don't care what Modern Monetary Theory says. If you can't tax people, tax land. If you can't tax land, tax houses. If you can't tax houses, tax luxury goods. Stop thinking you can enjoy an entire economy and culture and hundreds of nuclear warheads to avenge your death based on nothing but more and more interest payments and more and more debt. It isn't working.
    You can cut spending first. Let's start with £18billion for Chagos, £11billion for climate and god knows how much for foreign aid first. Oh and slash welfare in half.
    You can do both. In fact you should. But I return to my original question: if Labour isn't there to defend the old and the sick, what the hell is it there for?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,111
    edited March 19

    nico67 said:

    It’s incredibly difficult to remove a federal judge but the main concern now is that the disgraceful rhetoric from Musk and the rest of the Trump arselickers leads to even more threats of violence against judges and they may begin to fear making proper decisions based on law .

    I genuinely think it is all over for anyone who tries to defy Trump by using the law

    Whoever thought America would become an autocracy run by a narcissistic President with billionaire unelected bullies
    The US has been a pretty shaky democracy for some time. The two-party system, blatant gerrymandering, excessive power of the president and poor education of its population, among other things, are not conducive to stability.
    I think in some areas they don't do well on some 'freedom indices', as compared to other Western places, though I don't know if said ratings are worth the paper they are printed on.

    Some places are so bad they could remain oppressive autocracies and still rocket will up the lists, though on a certain PBers 'democratic state' index almost everyone would be ok.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,111

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
    No, I think there's been a marked shift in the last 12 months. There's now much more elite acceptance that Britain is in decline and that mass migration is not working and at the same time large parts of the public have become more radical.

    Paradoxically the election of Labour broke the liberal consensus that had prevailed since Blair.
    I'm not sure of the cause but I do feel like it is the case there is more acceptance some things are structurally broken or problematic, it isn't just that the Tories did a bad job or whatever.

    Doesn't guarantee proper solutions will be tried, or work, and I guarantee voters will object to most things attempted, but it does perhaps mean there is some hope of addressing some of the problems at least.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,758

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
    No, I think there's been a marked shift in the last 12 months. There's now much more elite acceptance that Britain is in decline and that mass migration is not working and at the same time large parts of the public have become more radical.

    Paradoxically the election of Labour broke the liberal consensus that had prevailed since Blair.
    Social media is destroying our democracy.

    That focus group seems to be stuff full of conspiracy theories and is "the most america" the guy has seen.

    Can't think where these voters are getting all their information from.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,032

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
    No, I think there's been a marked shift in the last 12 months. There's now much more elite acceptance that Britain is in decline and that mass migration is not working and at the same time large parts of the public have become more radical.

    Paradoxically the election of Labour broke the liberal consensus that had prevailed since Blair.
    Yes. This is COMPLETELY different now, and extremely dangerous
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,758

    nico67 said:

    It’s incredibly difficult to remove a federal judge but the main concern now is that the disgraceful rhetoric from Musk and the rest of the Trump arselickers leads to even more threats of violence against judges and they may begin to fear making proper decisions based on law .

    I genuinely think it is all over for anyone who tries to defy Trump by using the law

    Whoever thought America would become an autocracy run by a narcissistic President with billionaire unelected bullies
    The US has been a pretty shaky democracy for some time. The two-party system, blatant gerrymandering, excessive power of the president and poor education of its population, among other things, are not conducive to stability.
    President Trump’s angry call on Tuesday for the impeachment of a federal judge who ruled against his administration on deportation flights has set off a string of near-instant social media taunts and threats, including images of judges being marched off in handcuffs.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/19/us/trump-judges-threats.html


    Again. Fucking social media. It will kill us all at this rate.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,965
    Thanks for the cartoon Marf.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,078
    edited March 19

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
    No, I think there's been a marked shift in the last 12 months. There's now much more elite acceptance that Britain is in decline and that mass migration is not working and at the same time large parts of the public have become more radical.

    Paradoxically the election of Labour broke the liberal consensus that had prevailed since Blair.
    Social media is destroying our democracy.

    That focus group seems to be stuff full of conspiracy theories and is "the most america" the guy has seen.

    Can't think where these voters are getting all their information from.
    There does seem to be a significant horseshoe effect of right leaning people joining the far left in things like shadowy elites control the world. You hear the right wingers banging on about conspiracy of Davos globalist elites running the world as much as a Corbynista these days.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,493

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
    I think the question is do these people continue to be disappointed by the main parties but still vote for them or do we see a rise in much much more radical left and right parties* that are common place in Europe. We did for a brief moment see the rise in the BNP in places like Stoke for exactly this reason, it was local people who joined the BNP and were pushing Corbynista economic policies.

    *I don't really see Reform as radical, its a one man party of a bloke who could easily been in the Tories prior to Cameron and is quite to disown anything too radical and its really trying the same trick as Boris promising all the sweeties without any of the pain.
    There is also a great complacency about voting for real dipshits offering the moon on a stick.

    Think things couldn't get worse? They certainly can, and not just a bit worse. There are plenty of failed states in history, where the citizens thought the party could run forever.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,032
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    To raise the tone above the likes of @kinabalu and @kjh - this is why my tour guide was so amazing

    He met me at the cathedral and we spent a pleasant couple of hours touring pleasant, safe, unexciting Montevideo

    Then there was a thunderstorm and we were forced inside a very atmospheric old cafe (Caffe Braziliano). 19th century. Great coffee. At this point he opened up about his prior life in the Uruguayan army - mainly in their UN peacekeeping force (I had no idea Uruguay did so much peacekeeping)

    By the time we got to the famous old market in the port for a famous Uruguayan barbecue lunch we’d bonded so much he admitted that not only had he spent years in the Congo and Georgia (where he was held hostage at gunpoint for a week) in his UN mission, he was also in Rwanda (again for the UN) where he witnessed, personally, the entire genocide from before it began to the aftermath - seeing the killings, driving through corpses, everything. He showed me the evidence and discussed how it changed him

    Maybe the most compelling single hour of conversation I’ve ever had. To arrive BEFORE that genocide and leave AFTER. What does that do to you? He tried to explain and he was very articulate

    To accompany this extraordinary conversation we had excellent steaks, chorizo, provolone, a good bottle of Tannat red wine and this secret Uruguayan wine they call “half and half”



    This is one reason I love my job

    Interesting story (though why the unnecessary dig at a couple of PBers ?).

    I didn't know there were Uruguayan members of the UN forces in Rwanda during the genocide.
    They are not mentioned here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roméo_Dallaire
    I'd be interested to hear more of his story.
    60 seconds with Google.....

    https://peacekeeping.un.org/sites/default/files/past/unamirF.htm

    "CONTRIBUTORS OF MILITARY AND CIVILIAN POLICE PERSONNEL
    Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chad, Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Fiji, Germany, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Guyana, India, Jordan, Kenya, Malawi, Mali, Netherlands, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation, Senegal, Slovak Republic, Spain, Switzerland, Togo, Tunisia, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Zambia and Zimbabwe"
    Yes, I just did that myself. My bad.

    Probably only a handful of troops from the countries other than Belgium (the majority, but withdrawn early on) Pakistan, Canada, Ghana, Tunisia, and Bangladesh, though ?
    He’s not lying and neither am I. Tut

    https://revistas.unc.edu.ar/index.php/testimonios/article/view/47125

    “A 30 años del genocidio de Ruanda de 1994: la experiencia de los cascos azules uruguayos”
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,368
    Well that's not good.

    The Federal Reserve cuts 2025 growth outlook, raises inflation forecast, raises unemployment projection to 4.4%
    https://x.com/unusual_whales/status/1902422065933648200
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,111

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
    No, I think there's been a marked shift in the last 12 months. There's now much more elite acceptance that Britain is in decline and that mass migration is not working and at the same time large parts of the public have become more radical.

    Paradoxically the election of Labour broke the liberal consensus that had prevailed since Blair.
    Social media is destroying our democracy.

    That focus group seems to be stuff full of conspiracy theories and is "the most america" the guy has seen.

    Can't think where these voters are getting all their information from.
    I'm sure we've all fallen for something online before, especially something we wanted to believe or which aligned with our politics, but I am struck by one acquaintance of mine who will read out a story and if it is something which I know pretty confidently from personal experience to be untrue and say so, their response is a just as confident 'it says X here' or 'they' say it is true (that is, the internet says it). It doesn't seem to make a difference if they read it from a news site or it is shared by someone they know on facebook, the fact they read it seems in itself to be sufficient to be accepted as fact.

    Attempting not to be condescending that level of credulity at online content is problematic unless you want to be President of the United States or run a multi-billion dollar company.

    (Ok, I didn't entirely succeed at the non-condescension)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,368
    edited March 19
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    To raise the tone above the likes of @kinabalu and @kjh - this is why my tour guide was so amazing

    He met me at the cathedral and we spent a pleasant couple of hours touring pleasant, safe, unexciting Montevideo

    Then there was a thunderstorm and we were forced inside a very atmospheric old cafe (Caffe Braziliano). 19th century. Great coffee. At this point he opened up about his prior life in the Uruguayan army - mainly in their UN peacekeeping force (I had no idea Uruguay did so much peacekeeping)

    By the time we got to the famous old market in the port for a famous Uruguayan barbecue lunch we’d bonded so much he admitted that not only had he spent years in the Congo and Georgia (where he was held hostage at gunpoint for a week) in his UN mission, he was also in Rwanda (again for the UN) where he witnessed, personally, the entire genocide from before it began to the aftermath - seeing the killings, driving through corpses, everything. He showed me the evidence and discussed how it changed him

    Maybe the most compelling single hour of conversation I’ve ever had. To arrive BEFORE that genocide and leave AFTER. What does that do to you? He tried to explain and he was very articulate

    To accompany this extraordinary conversation we had excellent steaks, chorizo, provolone, a good bottle of Tannat red wine and this secret Uruguayan wine they call “half and half”



    This is one reason I love my job

    Interesting story (though why the unnecessary dig at a couple of PBers ?).

    I didn't know there were Uruguayan members of the UN forces in Rwanda during the genocide.
    They are not mentioned here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roméo_Dallaire
    I'd be interested to hear more of his story.
    60 seconds with Google.....

    https://peacekeeping.un.org/sites/default/files/past/unamirF.htm

    "CONTRIBUTORS OF MILITARY AND CIVILIAN POLICE PERSONNEL
    Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chad, Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Fiji, Germany, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Guyana, India, Jordan, Kenya, Malawi, Mali, Netherlands, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation, Senegal, Slovak Republic, Spain, Switzerland, Togo, Tunisia, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Zambia and Zimbabwe"
    Yes, I just did that myself. My bad.

    Probably only a handful of troops from the countries other than Belgium (the majority, but withdrawn early on) Pakistan, Canada, Ghana, Tunisia, and Bangladesh, though ?
    He’s not lying and neither am I. Tut

    https://revistas.unc.edu.ar/index.php/testimonios/article/view/47125

    “A 30 años del genocidio de Ruanda de 1994: la experiencia de los cascos azules uruguayos”
    I wasn't suggesting he was (and I've already corrected/acknowledged my mistake upthread).

    I am genuinely interested in hearing more.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,758
    Nigelb said:

    Well that's not good.

    The Federal Reserve cuts 2025 growth outlook, raises inflation forecast, raises unemployment projection to 4.4%
    https://x.com/unusual_whales/status/1902422065933648200

    Can't think why they would do that as a very stable genius who voters returned because he is a brilliant businessman who will end Biden's disaster economy and end inflation on day one is back in the WH.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,032

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
    No, I think there's been a marked shift in the last 12 months. There's now much more elite acceptance that Britain is in decline and that mass migration is not working and at the same time large parts of the public have become more radical.

    Paradoxically the election of Labour broke the liberal consensus that had prevailed since Blair.
    Social media is destroying our democracy.

    That focus group seems to be stuff full of conspiracy theories and is "the most america" the guy has seen.

    Can't think where these voters are getting all their information from.
    Overwhelming mass immigration is not a “racist conspiracy theory”. Nor; as we now know, is “two tier justice”

    British people can see the boriswave on their streets. They can see the 10 million we have let in since 1997. They can see that - despite all claims otherwise - this immigration is not “essential for growth and prosperity”. GDP per capita has basically flatlined for fifteen years. They can also see that both main parties are responsible for this and both of them have no clue what to do about it

    Brace. It’s gonna kick off
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,866
    edited March 19
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
    I think the question is do these people continue to be disappointed by the main parties but still vote for them or do we see a rise in much much more radical left and right parties* that are common place in Europe. We did for a brief moment see the rise in the BNP in places like Stoke for exactly this reason, it was local people who joined the BNP and were pushing Corbynista economic policies.

    *I don't really see Reform as radical, its a one man party of a bloke who could easily been in the Tories prior to Cameron and is quite to disown anything too radical and its really trying the same trick as Boris promising all the sweeties without any of the pain.
    There is also a great complacency about voting for real dipshits offering the moon on a stick.

    Think things couldn't get worse? They certainly can, and not just a bit worse. There are plenty of failed states in history, where the citizens thought the party could run forever.
    These really are dark times . I do wonder what sort of country those cheering on Trump think they’re going to end up with . It’s quite astonishing now to see the US AG effectively trashing the law and constitution she’s there to protect .

    And it’s now upto the Supreme Court to step in which is quite something when saving the last vestiges of US democracy are down to a Conservative majority court . Although I expect the Mago loons now to turn on that if it makes any rulings that Trump doesn’t like .

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,292
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
    No, I think there's been a marked shift in the last 12 months. There's now much more elite acceptance that Britain is in decline and that mass migration is not working and at the same time large parts of the public have become more radical.

    Paradoxically the election of Labour broke the liberal consensus that had prevailed since Blair.
    Yes. This is COMPLETELY different now, and extremely dangerous
    Maybe and maybe not.

    But how would you know from far off Uruguay or China or wherever you will be next week ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,032
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    To raise the tone above the likes of @kinabalu and @kjh - this is why my tour guide was so amazing

    He met me at the cathedral and we spent a pleasant couple of hours touring pleasant, safe, unexciting Montevideo

    Then there was a thunderstorm and we were forced inside a very atmospheric old cafe (Caffe Braziliano). 19th century. Great coffee. At this point he opened up about his prior life in the Uruguayan army - mainly in their UN peacekeeping force (I had no idea Uruguay did so much peacekeeping)

    By the time we got to the famous old market in the port for a famous Uruguayan barbecue lunch we’d bonded so much he admitted that not only had he spent years in the Congo and Georgia (where he was held hostage at gunpoint for a week) in his UN mission, he was also in Rwanda (again for the UN) where he witnessed, personally, the entire genocide from before it began to the aftermath - seeing the killings, driving through corpses, everything. He showed me the evidence and discussed how it changed him

    Maybe the most compelling single hour of conversation I’ve ever had. To arrive BEFORE that genocide and leave AFTER. What does that do to you? He tried to explain and he was very articulate

    To accompany this extraordinary conversation we had excellent steaks, chorizo, provolone, a good bottle of Tannat red wine and this secret Uruguayan wine they call “half and half”



    This is one reason I love my job

    Interesting story (though why the unnecessary dig at a couple of PBers ?).

    I didn't know there were Uruguayan members of the UN forces in Rwanda during the genocide.
    They are not mentioned here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roméo_Dallaire
    I'd be interested to hear more of his story.
    60 seconds with Google.....

    https://peacekeeping.un.org/sites/default/files/past/unamirF.htm

    "CONTRIBUTORS OF MILITARY AND CIVILIAN POLICE PERSONNEL
    Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chad, Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Fiji, Germany, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Guyana, India, Jordan, Kenya, Malawi, Mali, Netherlands, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation, Senegal, Slovak Republic, Spain, Switzerland, Togo, Tunisia, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Zambia and Zimbabwe"
    Yes, I just did that myself. My bad.

    Probably only a handful of troops from the countries other than Belgium (the majority, but withdrawn early on) Pakistan, Canada, Ghana, Tunisia, and Bangladesh, though ?
    He’s not lying and neither am I. Tut

    https://revistas.unc.edu.ar/index.php/testimonios/article/view/47125

    “A 30 años del genocidio de Ruanda de 1994: la experiencia de los cascos azules uruguayos”
    I wasn't suggesting he was (and I've already corrected/acknowledged my mistake upthread).

    I am genuinely interested in hearing more.
    Fair enough

    He was full of the most incredible stories. At one point he saved his life by giving away a stick of chewing gum just as he was about to be shot

    He also pointed out that he was unarmed, they had no guns. They were “military observers”, so they had to stand there and watch as the butchering took place right in front of them

    We had some wine (excellent Tannat!) and got quite candid and I asked him right out if he was affected by it, perhaps traumatized. He was adamant that he was and is fine. “I am a soldier”. It seemed to be the case. He was good company, level headed, quite amusing, and I think a bit bored of boring Montevideo

    He did admit that one of his superior officers, a Canadian, went a bit bonkers - then wrote this book

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shake_Hands_with_the_Devil_(book)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,238
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    To raise the tone above the likes of @kinabalu and @kjh - this is why my tour guide was so amazing

    He met me at the cathedral and we spent a pleasant couple of hours touring pleasant, safe, unexciting Montevideo

    Then there was a thunderstorm and we were forced inside a very atmospheric old cafe (Caffe Braziliano). 19th century. Great coffee. At this point he opened up about his prior life in the Uruguayan army - mainly in their UN peacekeeping force (I had no idea Uruguay did so much peacekeeping)

    By the time we got to the famous old market in the port for a famous Uruguayan barbecue lunch we’d bonded so much he admitted that not only had he spent years in the Congo and Georgia (where he was held hostage at gunpoint for a week) in his UN mission, he was also in Rwanda (again for the UN) where he witnessed, personally, the entire genocide from before it began to the aftermath - seeing the killings, driving through corpses, everything. He showed me the evidence and discussed how it changed him

    Maybe the most compelling single hour of conversation I’ve ever had. To arrive BEFORE that genocide and leave AFTER. What does that do to you? He tried to explain and he was very articulate

    To accompany this extraordinary conversation we had excellent steaks, chorizo, provolone, a good bottle of Tannat red wine and this secret Uruguayan wine they call “half and half”



    This is one reason I love my job

    Interesting story (though why the unnecessary dig at a couple of PBers ?).

    I didn't know there were Uruguayan members of the UN forces in Rwanda during the genocide.
    They are not mentioned here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roméo_Dallaire
    I'd be interested to hear more of his story.
    60 seconds with Google.....

    https://peacekeeping.un.org/sites/default/files/past/unamirF.htm

    "CONTRIBUTORS OF MILITARY AND CIVILIAN POLICE PERSONNEL
    Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chad, Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Fiji, Germany, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Guyana, India, Jordan, Kenya, Malawi, Mali, Netherlands, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation, Senegal, Slovak Republic, Spain, Switzerland, Togo, Tunisia, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Zambia and Zimbabwe"
    Yes, I just did that myself. My bad.

    Probably only a handful of troops from the countries other than Belgium (the majority, but withdrawn early on) Pakistan, Canada, Ghana, Tunisia, and Bangladesh, though ?
    He’s not lying and neither am I. Tut

    https://revistas.unc.edu.ar/index.php/testimonios/article/view/47125

    “A 30 años del genocidio de Ruanda de 1994: la experiencia de los cascos azules uruguayos”
    That's where it leads when you dehumanise and "other" human beings in pursuit of ideology.

    The world has forgotten that lesson, so is determined to repeat the crimes.
    Boomer platitudes. The ideology that has brought us to this point is the denial of the reality of otherness.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,758
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
    No, I think there's been a marked shift in the last 12 months. There's now much more elite acceptance that Britain is in decline and that mass migration is not working and at the same time large parts of the public have become more radical.

    Paradoxically the election of Labour broke the liberal consensus that had prevailed since Blair.
    Social media is destroying our democracy.

    That focus group seems to be stuff full of conspiracy theories and is "the most america" the guy has seen.

    Can't think where these voters are getting all their information from.
    Overwhelming mass immigration is not a “racist conspiracy theory”. Nor; as we now know, is “two tier justice”

    British people can see the boriswave on their streets. They can see the 10 million we have let in since 1997. They can see that - despite all claims otherwise - this immigration is not “essential for growth and prosperity”. GDP per capita has basically flatlined for fifteen years. They can also see that both main parties are responsible for this and both of them have no clue what to do about it

    Brace. It’s gonna kick off
    Immigration is not the conspiracy theories the focus group are talking about. I get the anger about "Boriswave" of migrants but the conspiracy shit is beyond that:

    "Conspiracy theories abounded: Epstein and a shady force “pulling the strings” featured."

    "But bit by bit, our politics is becoming more online, more conspiratorial, more fractious, more American."

    https://www.channel4.com/news/james-johnson-pollsters-thoughts-on-political-swing-in-uk
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,032

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1902440135746318561

    This week I ran a focus group in Grimsby for @channel4news.

    The mood amongst voters was nothing short of apocalyptic. On migration, welfare, and the future of Britain.

    No party leader was seen as truly capable of leading Britain out of a mess they felt was caused above all by mass immigration.

    Rich in anger and conspiracy theories, it was also the most American of the English focus groups I’ve ever conducted.

    This could have been written any time in the last 10 years.
    No, I think there's been a marked shift in the last 12 months. There's now much more elite acceptance that Britain is in decline and that mass migration is not working and at the same time large parts of the public have become more radical.

    Paradoxically the election of Labour broke the liberal consensus that had prevailed since Blair.
    Yes. This is COMPLETELY different now, and extremely dangerous
    Maybe and maybe not.

    But how would you know from far off Uruguay or China or wherever you will be next week ?
    Have you considered the possibility that extremely wide experience of the world - eg my encounter today with a fairly unique living witness to the Rwandan genocide - might give me some insights that others don’t? I’m not saying that is necessarily true, or even probably true, but it is of course possible
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,111

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    To raise the tone above the likes of @kinabalu and @kjh - this is why my tour guide was so amazing

    He met me at the cathedral and we spent a pleasant couple of hours touring pleasant, safe, unexciting Montevideo

    Then there was a thunderstorm and we were forced inside a very atmospheric old cafe (Caffe Braziliano). 19th century. Great coffee. At this point he opened up about his prior life in the Uruguayan army - mainly in their UN peacekeeping force (I had no idea Uruguay did so much peacekeeping)

    By the time we got to the famous old market in the port for a famous Uruguayan barbecue lunch we’d bonded so much he admitted that not only had he spent years in the Congo and Georgia (where he was held hostage at gunpoint for a week) in his UN mission, he was also in Rwanda (again for the UN) where he witnessed, personally, the entire genocide from before it began to the aftermath - seeing the killings, driving through corpses, everything. He showed me the evidence and discussed how it changed him

    Maybe the most compelling single hour of conversation I’ve ever had. To arrive BEFORE that genocide and leave AFTER. What does that do to you? He tried to explain and he was very articulate

    To accompany this extraordinary conversation we had excellent steaks, chorizo, provolone, a good bottle of Tannat red wine and this secret Uruguayan wine they call “half and half”



    This is one reason I love my job

    Interesting story (though why the unnecessary dig at a couple of PBers ?).

    I didn't know there were Uruguayan members of the UN forces in Rwanda during the genocide.
    They are not mentioned here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roméo_Dallaire
    I'd be interested to hear more of his story.
    60 seconds with Google.....

    https://peacekeeping.un.org/sites/default/files/past/unamirF.htm

    "CONTRIBUTORS OF MILITARY AND CIVILIAN POLICE PERSONNEL
    Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chad, Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Fiji, Germany, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Guyana, India, Jordan, Kenya, Malawi, Mali, Netherlands, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation, Senegal, Slovak Republic, Spain, Switzerland, Togo, Tunisia, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Zambia and Zimbabwe"
    Yes, I just did that myself. My bad.

    Probably only a handful of troops from the countries other than Belgium (the majority, but withdrawn early on) Pakistan, Canada, Ghana, Tunisia, and Bangladesh, though ?
    He’s not lying and neither am I. Tut

    https://revistas.unc.edu.ar/index.php/testimonios/article/view/47125

    “A 30 años del genocidio de Ruanda de 1994: la experiencia de los cascos azules uruguayos”
    That's where it leads when you dehumanise and "other" human beings in pursuit of ideology.

    The world has forgotten that lesson, so is determined to repeat the crimes.
    Boomer platitudes. The ideology that has brought us to this point is the denial of the reality of otherness.
    Well, I guess we now know how far down the rabbit hole you have gone, given Foxy was making a point about the lessons from genocide.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,758
    Grimsby focus group want Farage as PM.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,758
    DogeDesigner

    @cb_doge
    ·
    6h
    🚨 ELON MUSK: "I sleep for about 6 hours on average and I work almost every waking hour.

    I don't have social dinners really. I literally just will have lunch and dinner during meetings and continue the meeting."

    ===

    The problem in a nutshell.
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