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How low can Elon Musk sink? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,366
edited March 18 in General
How low can Elon Musk sink? – politicalbetting.com

Elon Musk has become even more unpopular in the UK since January, and is now unpopular overall among Reform UK votersAll BritonsFavourable: 13% (-5 from 12-13 Jan)Unfavourable: 80% (+9)Reform UK votersFavourable: 36% (-11)Unfavourable: 58% (+18)yougov.co.uk/politics/art…

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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,066
    edited March 18

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,910
    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,554

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast as any long term effects on battery life.
    I can recall when fast charging was “impossible”, according to various experts. Who weren’t actually expert in battery chemistry.

    The key will be temperature control of the battery during the charging process, I will bet.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,066

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I never knew, if only you had made your feelings clearer on the matter.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,181
    @our_decay

    Interesting how obsessed Elon is with The Rocket… A telling object… a giant phallus at the intersection of war, science, engineering, industry, government, fascism, the occult… If only someone had written a 700 page postmodern novel on this subject…
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,066
    edited March 18

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    I presume he had to pay out a fair chunk of change over that?
  • eekeek Posts: 29,418

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast as any long term effects on battery life.
    I can recall when fast charging was “impossible”, according to various experts. Who weren’t actually expert in battery chemistry.

    The key will be temperature control of the battery during the charging process, I will bet.
    And a lot of the BYD announcement seems to cover that with a new chemical compound.

    Got to say if it was anyone other than BYD I would consider the announcement as vapourware but not with their background and market position
  • Good news on the Reform numbers. I’ve frequently felt some sympathy with their crossness with the world. It’s their way forward that I felt to be questionable.

    A bit like Cummings, really, fair comment - bonkers solutions.


    Gotta laugh at Tesla . . Even as a Green.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,066
    edited March 18
    eek said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast as any long term effects on battery life.
    I can recall when fast charging was “impossible”, according to various experts. Who weren’t actually expert in battery chemistry.

    The key will be temperature control of the battery during the charging process, I will bet.
    And a lot of the BYD announcement seems to cover that with a new chemical compound.

    Got to say if it was anyone other than BYD I would consider the announcement as vapourware but not with their background and market position
    Watching videos of the cars already available in China, I wouldn't want to have large stock positions in any Western car brand.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 726

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    On the subject of underrated tv shows and movies - on the London-Sao Paulo leg of my journey I watched Ridley Scott’s Gladiator II

    Ok it’s not in the same league as the original but the original was something of a masterpiece. It is still a rip roaring piece of cinematic entertainment, not intellectually demanding but full of fun - exploding rhinos, weird killer baboon-dogs - some decent performances from Paul Mescal, the creepy dual emperors. Just needed more gratuitous sex

    A solid B or even B+

    I felt the same about Scott’s Napoleon. The reviews were so awful I anticipated the worst - yet it’s a vivid and quite accurate romp through Bonaparte’s life with a truly fine performance in the middle

    B++

    People are overhating on Ridders Scott

    Christ I didn't realise he is 87 years old.
    Yes in the category of surprisingly old famous directors I think he’s faring better than Scorsese and Coppola and maybe Spielberg, and also has better projects in the pipeline than David Lynch
    David Lynch has the minor issue of being brown bread....
    If we are discussing old directors, may I widen it to theatre directors and point out Michael Blakemore directed Copenhagen at Chichester when he was 90?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,428

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    I presume he had to pay out a fair chunk of change over that?
    Didn't Musk win? Think the case was in the States.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,910

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I never knew, if only you had made your feelings clearer on the matter.
    I am proud of my subtlety. :)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,690

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    I presume he had to pay out a fair chunk of change over that?
    Elon Musk wins defamation case over 'pedo guy' tweet about caver
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50695593
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,428
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rowing/2025/03/18/boat-race-feud-oxford-cambridge-rowers/

    A row has broken out ahead of the Boat Race after three Cambridge rowers were blocked from competing amid what has been branded “a desperate ploy from Oxford to gain an upper hand in the most slimy way”.

    Three post-graduate teacher training students – one of them a former Under-23 world champion – have been ruled ineligible for the men’s and women’s races less than a month before the annual showdown on the Thames between Britain’s oldest universities.


    Same old Cambridge, always cheating.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,654
    ..

    Good news on the Reform numbers. I’ve frequently felt some sympathy with their crossness with the world. It’s their way forward that I felt to be questionable.

    A bit like Cummings, really, fair comment - bonkers solutions.


    Gotta laugh at Tesla . . Even as a Green.

    @MustaphaFunkyCat ?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,803

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,009

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    I presume he had to pay out a fair chunk of change over that?
    Surprisingly little I think.

    Just checked, nothing!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50695593
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,422
    I'm afraid "favourable opinion of Donald Trump" is an almost perfectly accurate proxy for utter plonker. It's heartening to see it so rare for everyone except (surprise surprise) Reform supporters.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,066
    edited March 18

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    I presume he had to pay out a fair chunk of change over that?
    Elon Musk wins defamation case over 'pedo guy' tweet about caver
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50695593
    Reading the report, certainly an interesting legal defence...its dead normal in SA to call people that and JDart....
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,500

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    That was the moment. There were earlier signs too, like his excessively sharp dismissals of competitors which suggested an inflated and fragile ego.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,066
    edited March 18
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rowing/2025/03/18/boat-race-feud-oxford-cambridge-rowers/

    A row has broken out ahead of the Boat Race after three Cambridge rowers were blocked from competing amid what has been branded “a desperate ploy from Oxford to gain an upper hand in the most slimy way”.

    Three post-graduate teacher training students – one of them a former Under-23 world champion – have been ruled ineligible for the men’s and women’s races less than a month before the annual showdown on the Thames between Britain’s oldest universities.


    Same old Cambridge, always cheating.

    I linked to this earlier. Hasn't getting ringers into the boat race been going on for absolutely forever. Both crews in the past have had people who have won the Olympics then strangely decided that they really must do a masters in something like land management at one or the other university despite being 30 odd and no connection to farming.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,066
    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    There is a brand in China that does drive in / drive out battery swaps for their cars.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,910

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    I presume he had to pay out a fair chunk of change over that?
    Elon Musk wins defamation case over 'pedo guy' tweet about caver
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50695593
    The diver was not a paedo. Musk was in the wrong. The prosecution did not prove that Musk defamed him. I find that utterly baffling, but it does not mean that Musk was in the right, or the diver was a paedo.

    As I said at the time, the way Musk should have defused the situation was to say something like: "I'm sorry. Everyone wanted to save those kids, and passions were running high. Unsworth is not a paedo. I should not have said that. I will offer a million pounds and a years' time for five SpaceX engineers to the International Underwater Cave Rescue and Recovery to develop technology that they think will be of use in future rescues. Thank God the kids were retrieved safely. And I give a million dollars to the family of the Thai cave diver who died."

    That would probably have cost him less than the lawyers cost defending the court case.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,500
    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    The structural issue at the moment is cost. Electricity at home is cheaper than ICE fuels and can be much cheaper if cars are charged on special overnight tariffs. Electricity on street or at fast chargers is so much more expensive that it’s scarcely cheaper than filling up with petrol or diesel now. That really needs to change before we can really make a breakthrough.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,654
    kinabalu said:

    I'm afraid "favourable opinion of Donald Trump" is an almost perfectly accurate proxy for utter plonker. It's heartening to see it so rare for everyone except (surprise surprise) Reform supporters.

    How do we reckon Donald Chamberlain's call with Putin is going?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,179
    tlg86 said:

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    I presume he had to pay out a fair chunk of change over that?
    Didn't Musk win? Think the case was in the States.
    I think his lawyers' defence was something like "our client was just using an insult that he'd picked up somewhere, and had no idea paedo was short for paedophile." The American jury, for whatever reason, seemed to accept that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,239

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rowing/2025/03/18/boat-race-feud-oxford-cambridge-rowers/

    A row has broken out ahead of the Boat Race after three Cambridge rowers were blocked from competing amid what has been branded “a desperate ploy from Oxford to gain an upper hand in the most slimy way”.

    Three post-graduate teacher training students – one of them a former Under-23 world champion – have been ruled ineligible for the men’s and women’s races less than a month before the annual showdown on the Thames between Britain’s oldest universities.


    Same old Cambridge, always cheating.

    I linked to this earlier. Hasn't getting ringers into the boat race been going on for absolutely forever. Both crews in the past have had people who have won the Olympics then strangely decided that they really must do a masters in something like land management at one or the other university despite being 30 odd and no connection to farming.
    Land Economy.

    Funny thing is Daniel Levy of Spurs also read Land Economy at Sidney.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,372

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rowing/2025/03/18/boat-race-feud-oxford-cambridge-rowers/

    A row has broken out ahead of the Boat Race after three Cambridge rowers were blocked from competing amid what has been branded “a desperate ploy from Oxford to gain an upper hand in the most slimy way”.

    Three post-graduate teacher training students – one of them a former Under-23 world champion – have been ruled ineligible for the men’s and women’s races less than a month before the annual showdown on the Thames between Britain’s oldest universities.


    Same old Cambridge, always cheating.

    I linked to this earlier. Hasn't getting ringers into the boat race been going on for absolutely forever. Both crews in the past have had people who have won the Olympics then strangely decided that they really must do a masters in something like land management at one or the other university despite being 30 odd and no connection to farming.
    My uni admissions system has a specific section "high performance athlete?", and while we are very strong in the University sports system, its not like the US.

    I'd argue for undergrads only, but that would be hypocritical as I played Uni rugby as a post grad for three years.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,654
    edited March 18
    Old people on LBC* four square behind Kemi's Net Zero U-turn.

    * Talking bollocks.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,500
    I see Germany has got the vote through. Probably missed it on the last thread

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62z6gljv2yo

    A timely boost to global and European demand. Could lead to a mini boom if they properly go for it, because there is so much dry powder there.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,910
    Scott_xP said:

    @our_decay

    Interesting how obsessed Elon is with The Rocket… A telling object… a giant phallus at the intersection of war, science, engineering, industry, government, fascism, the occult… If only someone had written a 700 page postmodern novel on this subject…

    He claims to be obsessed with Mars. Yet the world's richest man, owning a rocket company, has yet to launch anything of his own towards Mars (They did launch a NASA spacecraft). It's almost as though he's not actually interested in Mars, but know the fanbois will love him for it.

    Compare and contrast with the smaller rocket company, Rocketlab. Beck, their leader, is obsessed with Venus. They are developing a self-funded private probe to Venus.

    https://www.rocketlabusa.com/missions/upcoming-missions/first-private-mission-to-venus/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,066

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rowing/2025/03/18/boat-race-feud-oxford-cambridge-rowers/

    A row has broken out ahead of the Boat Race after three Cambridge rowers were blocked from competing amid what has been branded “a desperate ploy from Oxford to gain an upper hand in the most slimy way”.

    Three post-graduate teacher training students – one of them a former Under-23 world champion – have been ruled ineligible for the men’s and women’s races less than a month before the annual showdown on the Thames between Britain’s oldest universities.


    Same old Cambridge, always cheating.

    I linked to this earlier. Hasn't getting ringers into the boat race been going on for absolutely forever. Both crews in the past have had people who have won the Olympics then strangely decided that they really must do a masters in something like land management at one or the other university despite being 30 odd and no connection to farming.
    My uni admissions system has a specific section "high performance athlete?", and while we are very strong in the University sports system, its not like the US.

    I'd argue for undergrads only, but that would be hypocritical as I played Uni rugby as a post grad for three years.
    Doing my best Mrs Merton impression....what first attracted you to the 6ft 8", 250 pound, multi Olympic gold medallist rower for a place on your Land Economy course...
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 829

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    That's what did it for me too.

    Still, I am looking at buying a Model Y Performance for the missus. Some seriously cheap 2nd hand ones around atm for some reason...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,139
    New Runcorn poll: https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/runcorn-and-helsby-by-election-poll/

    Small sample. Basically same results as the previous Ashcroft poll.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,061

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    That's what did it for me too.

    Still, I am looking at buying a Model Y Performance for the missus. Some seriously cheap 2nd hand ones around atm for some reason...
    Is your wife going to want to be constantly be driving a car at a Nuremburg rally?

    And they'll probably get cheaper. Who wants to drive a car that screams "Friend of Elon"?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,803
    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    The structural issue at the moment is cost. Electricity at home is cheaper than ICE fuels and can be much cheaper if cars are charged on special overnight tariffs. Electricity on street or at fast chargers is so much more expensive that it’s scarcely cheaper than filling up with petrol or diesel now. That really needs to change before we can really make a breakthrough.
    I guess I'm looking forward to when we have much cheaper electricity when all the renewables come online (particularly solar). Doesn't help that petrol is so cheap at the moment.

    What's so frustrating about the UK is that we are already so well placed for EVs - lots of excess energy overnight, 85% of households live in houses rather than flats. We've just failed to get the incentives pointing in the right direction.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,554
    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,139
    edited March 18

    New Runcorn poll: https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/runcorn-and-helsby-by-election-poll/

    Small sample. Basically same results as the previous Ashcroft poll.

    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Turnout adjusted, ‘Don’t know’ excluded

    Reform UK: 36%
    Labour: 33%
    Conservative: 12%
    Liberal Democrats: 7%
    Green Party: 7%
    Other: 5%


    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Turnout adjusted, ‘Don’t know’ included

    Reform UK: 30%
    Labour: 27%
    Conservative: 10%
    Liberal Democrats: 6%
    Green Party: 5%
    Other: 4%
    Don’t know: 17%


    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Raw vote, not adjusted for turnout

    Reform UK: 26%
    Labour: 19%
    Conservative: 5%
    Liberal Democrats: 4%
    Green Party: 4%
    Other: 2%
    Don’t know: 22%
    I would not vote: 18%
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,239

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I never knew, if only you had made your feelings clearer on the matter.
    I am proud of my subtlety. :)
    I can give you lessons about subtlety.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,422

    kinabalu said:

    I'm afraid "favourable opinion of Donald Trump" is an almost perfectly accurate proxy for utter plonker. It's heartening to see it so rare for everyone except (surprise surprise) Reform supporters.

    How do we reckon Donald Chamberlain's call with Putin is going?
    "Vlad, if you don't play ball here and, you know, pretend to agree to some stuff I'm gonna make you wear a condom next time."
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,061
    My advice to Elon? Have a massive public bust up with Trump. Really SCREAMING at him for being such a twat. He is destroying everything America stands for. DOGE was all Trump's idea - he has decided on who was being dismissed. There was no logic behind it. Just petty vendetta stuff. I can't work with this fool. I'm gone.

    His share price would rise. Although the people torching his showrooms would now be from MAGA.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,227
    https://x.com/rapidresponse47/status/1901996428949410227

    MUST WATCH: @VP explains in three minutes why the experiment of globalization failed:

    "It turns out that the geographies that do the manufacturing get awfully good at the designing of things."

    "Cheap labor is fundamentally a crutch, and it's a crutch that inhibits innovation."
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,861
    edited March 18

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rowing/2025/03/18/boat-race-feud-oxford-cambridge-rowers/

    A row has broken out ahead of the Boat Race after three Cambridge rowers were blocked from competing amid what has been branded “a desperate ploy from Oxford to gain an upper hand in the most slimy way”.

    Three post-graduate teacher training students – one of them a former Under-23 world champion – have been ruled ineligible for the men’s and women’s races less than a month before the annual showdown on the Thames between Britain’s oldest universities.


    Same old Cambridge, always cheating.

    I linked to this earlier. Hasn't getting ringers into the boat race been going on for absolutely forever. Both crews in the past have had people who have won the Olympics then strangely decided that they really must do a masters in something like land management at one or the other university despite being 30 odd and no connection to farming.
    My uni admissions system has a specific section "high performance athlete?", and while we are very strong in the University sports system, its not like the US.

    I'd argue for undergrads only, but that would be hypocritical as I played Uni rugby as a post grad for three years.
    Yes, undergrads only would fit the ethos better. Though no doubt there would be some joke degree set up just for those intending to mess about in boats.

    Having said that I also captained a high profile university sports team as a post grad. Well, high profile ish. OK then, croquet.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,690

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    I presume he had to pay out a fair chunk of change over that?
    Elon Musk wins defamation case over 'pedo guy' tweet about caver
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50695593
    Reading the report, certainly an interesting legal defence...its dead normal in SA to call people that and JDart....
    What about Joey Barton and Jeremy Vine? Does "bike nonce" mean "nonce on a bike" or just someone obsessed by cycling to an excessive and objectionable extent?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,282
    Scott_xP said:

    @our_decay

    Interesting how obsessed Elon is with The Rocket… A telling object… a giant phallus at the intersection of war, science, engineering, industry, government, fascism, the occult… If only someone had written a 700 page postmodern novel on this subject…

    Elon Musk was named after a character in a book about Mars written by a Nazi rocket scientist. Once you know that, a lot of other stuff falls into place.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,690
    edited March 18

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    That's what did it for me too.

    Still, I am looking at buying a Model Y Performance for the missus. Some seriously cheap 2nd hand ones around atm for some reason...
    Keep an eye on build quality. The last one I rode in had apparently been nailed together without using nails, screws or even glue. The ride was silent, or at least difficult to hear over the infernal rattling inside the car. (Oh, and had the turning circle of a double-decker bus.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,066

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    That's what did it for me too.

    Still, I am looking at buying a Model Y Performance for the missus. Some seriously cheap 2nd hand ones around atm for some reason...
    Keep an eye on build quality. The last one I rode in had apparently been nailed together without using nails, screws or even glue. The ride was silent, or at least difficult to hear over the infernal rattling inside the car. (Oh, and had the turning circle of a double-decker bus.)
    So other than those minor gripes shall I put you down for one?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,803

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
    Bet you that's cheaper than fitting EV chargers to every house and lamppost in the land.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,428

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rowing/2025/03/18/boat-race-feud-oxford-cambridge-rowers/

    A row has broken out ahead of the Boat Race after three Cambridge rowers were blocked from competing amid what has been branded “a desperate ploy from Oxford to gain an upper hand in the most slimy way”.

    Three post-graduate teacher training students – one of them a former Under-23 world champion – have been ruled ineligible for the men’s and women’s races less than a month before the annual showdown on the Thames between Britain’s oldest universities.


    Same old Cambridge, always cheating.

    I linked to this earlier. Hasn't getting ringers into the boat race been going on for absolutely forever. Both crews in the past have had people who have won the Olympics then strangely decided that they really must do a masters in something like land management at one or the other university despite being 30 odd and no connection to farming.
    My uni admissions system has a specific section "high performance athlete?", and while we are very strong in the University sports system, its not like the US.

    I'd argue for undergrads only, but that would be hypocritical as I played Uni rugby as a post grad for three years.
    Doing my best Mrs Merton impression....what first attracted you to the 6ft 8", 250 pound, multi Olympic gold medallist rower for a place on your Land Economy course...
    I was at the 2007 race:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorsten_Engelmann

    He also rowed for Cambridge University in the 2006 Boat Race (losing against Oxford). He competed as a member of the winning Cambridge Crew in the 2007 Boat Race, where he weighed in at 110.8 kilograms (244 lb), the heaviest rower ever to compete in the contest.

    In July 2007 Engelmann did not complete his academic course and instead returned to the German national rowing team to prepare for the Beijing Olympics. It was reported that Oxford asked for the 2007 race to be awarded to them, or declared void, as Engelmann was so important to the crew and appeared not to have been a genuine student. Although Cambridge refused to void the event, Engelmann was denied his Blue, making him the only Boat Race crew member not to have a Blue.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,581
    One journey up (then down) the AI(M) does not a conclusive survey make, but I didn't seem to see many Teslas on the motorway when I went to see my dear old mother on Sunday for her 95th birthday.

    Presumably people have range anxiety so can't actually travel anywhere meaningful in the things.

    It's interesting that Tesla should have brought together the hard right (hating anything eco) and the hard left (hating everything Trumpish) in one joyous band of righteousness.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,066
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rowing/2025/03/18/boat-race-feud-oxford-cambridge-rowers/

    A row has broken out ahead of the Boat Race after three Cambridge rowers were blocked from competing amid what has been branded “a desperate ploy from Oxford to gain an upper hand in the most slimy way”.

    Three post-graduate teacher training students – one of them a former Under-23 world champion – have been ruled ineligible for the men’s and women’s races less than a month before the annual showdown on the Thames between Britain’s oldest universities.


    Same old Cambridge, always cheating.

    I linked to this earlier. Hasn't getting ringers into the boat race been going on for absolutely forever. Both crews in the past have had people who have won the Olympics then strangely decided that they really must do a masters in something like land management at one or the other university despite being 30 odd and no connection to farming.
    My uni admissions system has a specific section "high performance athlete?", and while we are very strong in the University sports system, its not like the US.

    I'd argue for undergrads only, but that would be hypocritical as I played Uni rugby as a post grad for three years.
    Doing my best Mrs Merton impression....what first attracted you to the 6ft 8", 250 pound, multi Olympic gold medallist rower for a place on your Land Economy course...
    I was at the 2007 race:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorsten_Engelmann

    He also rowed for Cambridge University in the 2006 Boat Race (losing against Oxford). He competed as a member of the winning Cambridge Crew in the 2007 Boat Race, where he weighed in at 110.8 kilograms (244 lb), the heaviest rower ever to compete in the contest.

    In July 2007 Engelmann did not complete his academic course and instead returned to the German national rowing team to prepare for the Beijing Olympics. It was reported that Oxford asked for the 2007 race to be awarded to them, or declared void, as Engelmann was so important to the crew and appeared not to have been a genuine student. Although Cambridge refused to void the event, Engelmann was denied his Blue, making him the only Boat Race crew member not to have a Blue.
    I am sure no money ever changes hands....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,554
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
    Bet you that's cheaper than fitting EV chargers to every house and lamppost in the land.
    Probably not, actually.

    To start with, it means investing in infrastructure all the way from the power stations on an epic scale. The equality reports alone would take 10 years.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 865

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    I presume he had to pay out a fair chunk of change over that?
    Elon Musk wins defamation case over 'pedo guy' tweet about caver
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50695593
    Reading the report, certainly an interesting legal defence...its dead normal in SA to call people that and JDart....
    What about Joey Barton and Jeremy Vine? Does "bike nonce" mean "nonce on a bike" or just someone obsessed by cycling to an excessive and objectionable extent?
    Use of the term "bike nonce" is an indication that user has attained self-enlightment that they are a c**t.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 829

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I’ve always thought he was a bellend ever since he called that rescuer a paedo.
    That's what did it for me too.

    Still, I am looking at buying a Model Y Performance for the missus. Some seriously cheap 2nd hand ones around atm for some reason...
    Is your wife going to want to be constantly be driving a car at a Nuremburg rally?

    And they'll probably get cheaper. Who wants to drive a car that screams "Friend of Elon"?
    I honestly don't think that outside of the internet most people care (in the sense they can separate the driver from the vehicle from the manufacturer from the minority shareholder who stole the manufacturer), but the fear of it perhaps driving prices down more is definitely something I'm keeping my eye on
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,581
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rowing/2025/03/18/boat-race-feud-oxford-cambridge-rowers/

    A row has broken out ahead of the Boat Race after three Cambridge rowers were blocked from competing amid what has been branded “a desperate ploy from Oxford to gain an upper hand in the most slimy way”.

    Three post-graduate teacher training students – one of them a former Under-23 world champion – have been ruled ineligible for the men’s and women’s races less than a month before the annual showdown on the Thames between Britain’s oldest universities.


    Same old Cambridge, always cheating.

    I linked to this earlier. Hasn't getting ringers into the boat race been going on for absolutely forever. Both crews in the past have had people who have won the Olympics then strangely decided that they really must do a masters in something like land management at one or the other university despite being 30 odd and no connection to farming.
    My uni admissions system has a specific section "high performance athlete?", and while we are very strong in the University sports system, its not like the US.

    I'd argue for undergrads only, but that would be hypocritical as I played Uni rugby as a post grad for three years.
    Doing my best Mrs Merton impression....what first attracted you to the 6ft 8", 250 pound, multi Olympic gold medallist rower for a place on your Land Economy course...
    I was at the 2007 race:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorsten_Engelmann

    He also rowed for Cambridge University in the 2006 Boat Race (losing against Oxford). He competed as a member of the winning Cambridge Crew in the 2007 Boat Race, where he weighed in at 110.8 kilograms (244 lb), the heaviest rower ever to compete in the contest.

    In July 2007 Engelmann did not complete his academic course and instead returned to the German national rowing team to prepare for the Beijing Olympics. It was reported that Oxford asked for the 2007 race to be awarded to them, or declared void, as Engelmann was so important to the crew and appeared not to have been a genuine student. Although Cambridge refused to void the event, Engelmann was denied his Blue, making him the only Boat Race crew member not to have a Blue.
    Classic English weasel Establishment ploy. Half saying sorry while pocketing the spoils.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,179

    Scott_xP said:

    @our_decay

    Interesting how obsessed Elon is with The Rocket… A telling object… a giant phallus at the intersection of war, science, engineering, industry, government, fascism, the occult… If only someone had written a 700 page postmodern novel on this subject…

    Elon Musk was named after a character in a book about Mars written by a Nazi rocket scientist. Once you know that, a lot of other stuff falls into place.
    Though he does have a great grandfather who was called John Elon Haldeman
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,243

    New Runcorn poll: https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/runcorn-and-helsby-by-election-poll/

    Small sample. Basically same results as the previous Ashcroft poll.

    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Turnout adjusted, ‘Don’t know’ excluded

    Reform UK: 36%
    Labour: 33%
    Conservative: 12%
    Liberal Democrats: 7%
    Green Party: 7%
    Other: 5%


    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Turnout adjusted, ‘Don’t know’ included

    Reform UK: 30%
    Labour: 27%
    Conservative: 10%
    Liberal Democrats: 6%
    Green Party: 5%
    Other: 4%
    Don’t know: 17%


    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Raw vote, not adjusted for turnout

    Reform UK: 26%
    Labour: 19%
    Conservative: 5%
    Liberal Democrats: 4%
    Green Party: 4%
    Other: 2%
    Don’t know: 22%
    I would not vote: 18%
    As someone said the other day, plenty of Tory vote for Reform to squeeze. Got to be in the bag no?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,181
    @AshleyRParker

    Gov. Pritzker just debuted a phrase I had not heard before: "Elon Musk and his DOGEbags..."
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 865
    Reading between the lines it would seem that today's fatal RTA on the strand was a van driver toking on a spliff or maybe balloons.
    As a regular commuting cyclist I can tell you that it is normal to get wafts of cannabis smoke when passing queues of traffic, usually in the vicinity of a van.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,861
    edited March 18

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
    Bet you that's cheaper than fitting EV chargers to every house and lamppost in the land.
    Probably not, actually.

    To start with, it means investing in infrastructure all the way from the power stations on an epic scale. The equality reports alone would take 10 years.
    Put a small nuclear reactor in a container at the back of the charging station?

    Though that might not be enough power.

    Edit: At 1MW needed per charger, a 20MW SMR might just do it, which Last Energy claims to sell...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,500

    New Runcorn poll: https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/runcorn-and-helsby-by-election-poll/

    Small sample. Basically same results as the previous Ashcroft poll.

    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Turnout adjusted, ‘Don’t know’ excluded

    Reform UK: 36%
    Labour: 33%
    Conservative: 12%
    Liberal Democrats: 7%
    Green Party: 7%
    Other: 5%


    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Turnout adjusted, ‘Don’t know’ included

    Reform UK: 30%
    Labour: 27%
    Conservative: 10%
    Liberal Democrats: 6%
    Green Party: 5%
    Other: 4%
    Don’t know: 17%


    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Raw vote, not adjusted for turnout

    Reform UK: 26%
    Labour: 19%
    Conservative: 5%
    Liberal Democrats: 4%
    Green Party: 4%
    Other: 2%
    Don’t know: 22%
    I would not vote: 18%
    That’s close to what Britain Elects had for the Ashcroft poll if adjusted for undersampling of suburban and rural districts. 3% win.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,500

    New Runcorn poll: https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/runcorn-and-helsby-by-election-poll/

    Small sample. Basically same results as the previous Ashcroft poll.

    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Turnout adjusted, ‘Don’t know’ excluded

    Reform UK: 36%
    Labour: 33%
    Conservative: 12%
    Liberal Democrats: 7%
    Green Party: 7%
    Other: 5%


    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Turnout adjusted, ‘Don’t know’ included

    Reform UK: 30%
    Labour: 27%
    Conservative: 10%
    Liberal Democrats: 6%
    Green Party: 5%
    Other: 4%
    Don’t know: 17%


    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Raw vote, not adjusted for turnout

    Reform UK: 26%
    Labour: 19%
    Conservative: 5%
    Liberal Democrats: 4%
    Green Party: 4%
    Other: 2%
    Don’t know: 22%
    I would not vote: 18%
    As someone said the other day, plenty of Tory vote for Reform to squeeze. Got to be in the bag no?
    A fair bit of Lib Dem and Green to squeeze too. If LDs don't make an effort they’ll probably go very low on vote share.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,803

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
    Bet you that's cheaper than fitting EV chargers to every house and lamppost in the land.
    Probably not, actually.

    To start with, it means investing in infrastructure all the way from the power stations on an epic scale. The equality reports alone would take 10 years.
    My back-of-envelope has it at about £50 billion to install a charging point for every car in the UK. Probably a bit more given you'll likely have more charging points than cars, including workplace parking etc.

    That's roughly equivalent to £6 million per fuel station. No idea if it's feasible to get enough power to each location for that kind of cost.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,422
    TOPPING said:

    One journey up (then down) the AI(M) does not a conclusive survey make, but I didn't seem to see many Teslas on the motorway when I went to see my dear old mother on Sunday for her 95th birthday.

    Presumably people have range anxiety so can't actually travel anywhere meaningful in the things.

    It's interesting that Tesla should have brought together the hard right (hating anything eco) and the hard left (hating everything Trumpish) in one joyous band of righteousness.

    I doubt a Hard Left boycott would hurt Tesla since few could afford one to start with. Affluent libs otoh could do some damage.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,357
    edited March 18
    eek said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast as any long term effects on battery life.
    I can recall when fast charging was “impossible”, according to various experts. Who weren’t actually expert in battery chemistry.

    The key will be temperature control of the battery during the charging process, I will bet.
    And a lot of the BYD announcement seems to cover that with a new chemical compound.

    Got to say if it was anyone other than BYD I would consider the announcement as vapourware but not with their background and market position
    Their new factory will be around ten times the size of the Texas gigafactory.

    Apart from Trump's unreliable tariffs, does Tesla have any kind of moat now ?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,834
    Some time ago I had a rant about the fitting of regressions to datasets. I eventually had to introduce the Anscombe quartet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anscombe's_quartet ) to get my point across. I've tried to find that rant in the comments but Bing and Google are useless and I can't find it. Can anybody assist?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,357
    SandraMc said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    On the subject of underrated tv shows and movies - on the London-Sao Paulo leg of my journey I watched Ridley Scott’s Gladiator II

    Ok it’s not in the same league as the original but the original was something of a masterpiece. It is still a rip roaring piece of cinematic entertainment, not intellectually demanding but full of fun - exploding rhinos, weird killer baboon-dogs - some decent performances from Paul Mescal, the creepy dual emperors. Just needed more gratuitous sex

    A solid B or even B+

    I felt the same about Scott’s Napoleon. The reviews were so awful I anticipated the worst - yet it’s a vivid and quite accurate romp through Bonaparte’s life with a truly fine performance in the middle

    B++

    People are overhating on Ridders Scott

    Christ I didn't realise he is 87 years old.
    Yes in the category of surprisingly old famous directors I think he’s faring better than Scorsese and Coppola and maybe Spielberg, and also has better projects in the pipeline than David Lynch
    David Lynch has the minor issue of being brown bread....
    If we are discussing old directors, may I widen it to theatre directors and point out Michael Blakemore directed Copenhagen at Chichester when he was 90?
    The there's old Clint himself, who I think is the oldest Best Director winner ?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,243
    TimS said:

    New Runcorn poll: https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/runcorn-and-helsby-by-election-poll/

    Small sample. Basically same results as the previous Ashcroft poll.

    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Turnout adjusted, ‘Don’t know’ excluded

    Reform UK: 36%
    Labour: 33%
    Conservative: 12%
    Liberal Democrats: 7%
    Green Party: 7%
    Other: 5%


    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Turnout adjusted, ‘Don’t know’ included

    Reform UK: 30%
    Labour: 27%
    Conservative: 10%
    Liberal Democrats: 6%
    Green Party: 5%
    Other: 4%
    Don’t know: 17%


    How are you likely to vote in that by-election?
    Raw vote, not adjusted for turnout

    Reform UK: 26%
    Labour: 19%
    Conservative: 5%
    Liberal Democrats: 4%
    Green Party: 4%
    Other: 2%
    Don’t know: 22%
    I would not vote: 18%
    As someone said the other day, plenty of Tory vote for Reform to squeeze. Got to be in the bag no?
    A fair bit of Lib Dem and Green to squeeze too. If LDs don't make an effort they’ll probably go very low on vote share.
    Sure, but are they going to be motivated to vote tactically to get Labour back in?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,181
    @bpolitics

    US Chief Justice John Roberts said the impeachment of federal judges is “not an appropriate response” to disagreement with their rulings
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,554

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
    Bet you that's cheaper than fitting EV chargers to every house and lamppost in the land.
    Probably not, actually.

    To start with, it means investing in infrastructure all the way from the power stations on an epic scale. The equality reports alone would take 10 years.
    Put a small nuclear reactor in a container at the back of the charging station?

    Though that might not be enough power.

    Edit: At 1MW needed per charger, a 20MW SMR might just do it, which Last Energy claims to sell...
    Nah..

    That’s slacker thinking.

    Detonate a 20kt nuclear device in a cavern full of salt every 30 minutes. The molten salt reservoir drives a steam system that powers the turbines….

    #WhatWouldNealCloudDo
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,554
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
    Bet you that's cheaper than fitting EV chargers to every house and lamppost in the land.
    Probably not, actually.

    To start with, it means investing in infrastructure all the way from the power stations on an epic scale. The equality reports alone would take 10 years.
    My back-of-envelope has it at about £50 billion to install a charging point for every car in the UK. Probably a bit more given you'll likely have more charging points than cars, including workplace parking etc.

    That's roughly equivalent to £6 million per fuel station. No idea if it's feasible to get enough power to each location for that kind of cost.
    Ha ha

    In terms of if you or I had the money - maybe

    But by the time the bullshit artists have had a go…. No chance.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,422
    edited March 18
    Betting Post: The WH28 party market has moved a lot recently. The Dems were 2.4 but it's close to 50/50 now. I think the reason is that Trump has surprised (although not me) on the downside. People were not quite expecting this level of corruption and incompetence.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,357
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rowing/2025/03/18/boat-race-feud-oxford-cambridge-rowers/

    A row has broken out ahead of the Boat Race after three Cambridge rowers were blocked from competing amid what has been branded “a desperate ploy from Oxford to gain an upper hand in the most slimy way”.

    Three post-graduate teacher training students – one of them a former Under-23 world champion – have been ruled ineligible for the men’s and women’s races less than a month before the annual showdown on the Thames between Britain’s oldest universities.


    Same old Cambridge, always cheating.

    And I thought they were supposed to have the best lawyers ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,554
    TOPPING said:

    One journey up (then down) the AI(M) does not a conclusive survey make, but I didn't seem to see many Teslas on the motorway when I went to see my dear old mother on Sunday for her 95th birthday.

    Presumably people have range anxiety so can't actually travel anywhere meaningful in the things.

    It's interesting that Tesla should have brought together the hard right (hating anything eco) and the hard left (hating everything Trumpish) in one joyous band of righteousness.

    Range anxiety was answered by having a network of fast chargers around the world. Done London to Chablis several times, for example.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,418
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast as any long term effects on battery life.
    I can recall when fast charging was “impossible”, according to various experts. Who weren’t actually expert in battery chemistry.

    The key will be temperature control of the battery during the charging process, I will bet.
    And a lot of the BYD announcement seems to cover that with a new chemical compound.

    Got to say if it was anyone other than BYD I would consider the announcement as vapourware but not with their background and market position
    Their new factory will be around ten times the size of the Texas gigafactory.

    Apart from Trump's unreliable tariffs, does Tesla have any kind of moat now ?
    Tesla never did.

    The entertaining bit is that electric cars have also destroyed a lot of the premium market as electric cars remove a lot of the issues premium ICE sellers focus on.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,701
    For those following the descent into intimidatory fascism, from MSNBC:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlLv_EIL9OE
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,357
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
    Bet you that's cheaper than fitting EV chargers to every house and lamppost in the land.
    Probably not, actually.

    To start with, it means investing in infrastructure all the way from the power stations on an epic scale. The equality reports alone would take 10 years.
    My back-of-envelope has it at about £50 billion to install a charging point for every car in the UK. Probably a bit more given you'll likely have more charging points than cars, including workplace parking etc.

    That's roughly equivalent to £6 million per fuel station. No idea if it's feasible to get enough power to each location for that kind of cost.
    I have a 500kVA supply at work.
    Just no charger hooked up to it yet….
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,941
    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post: The WH28 party market has moved a lot recently. The Dems were 2.4 but it's close to 50/50 now. I think the reason is that Trump has surprised (although not me) on the downside since he took office. People were not quite expecting this level of corruption and incompetence.

    I want to back Trump to stay in power beyond 2028.

    Add him as a runner Betfair!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,834

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
    Bet you that's cheaper than fitting EV chargers to every house and lamppost in the land.
    Probably not, actually.

    To start with, it means investing in infrastructure all the way from the power stations on an epic scale. The equality reports alone would take 10 years.
    Put a small nuclear reactor in a container at the back of the charging station?

    Though that might not be enough power.

    Edit: At 1MW needed per charger, a 20MW SMR might just do it, which Last Energy claims to sell...
    Nah..

    That’s slacker thinking.

    Detonate a 20kt nuclear device in a cavern full of salt every 30 minutes. The molten salt reservoir drives a steam system that powers the turbines….

    #WhatWouldNealCloudDo
    Not only did I not have to look that up, I have a copy of "Masters of the Vortex" on my shelves with the 1970's Chris Foss picture on the cover. Jumpers for goalposts...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,554
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast as any long term effects on battery life.
    I can recall when fast charging was “impossible”, according to various experts. Who weren’t actually expert in battery chemistry.

    The key will be temperature control of the battery during the charging process, I will bet.
    And a lot of the BYD announcement seems to cover that with a new chemical compound.

    Got to say if it was anyone other than BYD I would consider the announcement as vapourware but not with their background and market position
    Their new factory will be around ten times the size of the Texas gigafactory.

    Apart from Trump's unreliable tariffs, does Tesla have any kind of moat now ?
    Tesla never did.

    The entertaining bit is that electric cars have also destroyed a lot of the premium market as electric cars remove a lot of the issues premium ICE sellers focus on.
    I’d say the charging network is still way ahead of everyone else. Which is why they won the charger standard war in the US - despite all the other manufacturers and the Biden administrations best efforts, combined.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,422

    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post: The WH28 party market has moved a lot recently. The Dems were 2.4 but it's close to 50/50 now. I think the reason is that Trump has surprised (although not me) on the downside since he took office. People were not quite expecting this level of corruption and incompetence.

    I want to back Trump to stay in power beyond 2028.

    Add him as a runner Betfair!
    Yes. I presume some sort of etiquette is preventing a quote there. It'd be a "USA survives as a democracy?" proxy.

    What odds would you want btw?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,357
    .

    I'm quite proud to be a very early convert from Musk fanboi to Musk hater. A process many others have taken since. :)

    I never knew, if only you had made your feelings clearer on the matter.
    I am proud of my subtlety. :)
    I can give you lessons about subtlety.
    You could have made a fortune from that had your modesty not prevented you from advertising.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 829
    viewcode said:

    Some time ago I had a rant about the fitting of regressions to datasets. I eventually had to introduce the Anscombe quartet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anscombe's_quartet ) to get my point across. I've tried to find that rant in the comments but Bing and Google are useless and I can't find it. Can anybody assist?

    There is a search in the top right, you have mentioned it more than once so you will have to decide which you are referring to: https://vf.politicalbetting.com/search?Search=Anscombe
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,941
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post: The WH28 party market has moved a lot recently. The Dems were 2.4 but it's close to 50/50 now. I think the reason is that Trump has surprised (although not me) on the downside since he took office. People were not quite expecting this level of corruption and incompetence.

    I want to back Trump to stay in power beyond 2028.

    Add him as a runner Betfair!
    Yes. I presume some sort of etiquette is preventing a quote there. It'd be a "USA survives as a democracy?" proxy.

    What odds would you want btw?
    As high as possible seeing market makers at the bookies dont even consider him a valid runner.....
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,861

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
    Bet you that's cheaper than fitting EV chargers to every house and lamppost in the land.
    Probably not, actually.

    To start with, it means investing in infrastructure all the way from the power stations on an epic scale. The equality reports alone would take 10 years.
    Put a small nuclear reactor in a container at the back of the charging station?

    Though that might not be enough power.

    Edit: At 1MW needed per charger, a 20MW SMR might just do it, which Last Energy claims to sell...
    Nah..

    That’s slacker thinking.

    Detonate a 20kt nuclear device in a cavern full of salt every 30 minutes. The molten salt reservoir drives a steam system that powers the turbines….

    #WhatWouldNealCloudDo
    Ha!

    Seriously though, nobody is getting a 10-20MW connection to every petrol station, surely?

    You'd need local battery storage, though that would probably need as large an exclusion zone as a nuclear device.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,554

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
    Bet you that's cheaper than fitting EV chargers to every house and lamppost in the land.
    Probably not, actually.

    To start with, it means investing in infrastructure all the way from the power stations on an epic scale. The equality reports alone would take 10 years.
    Put a small nuclear reactor in a container at the back of the charging station?

    Though that might not be enough power.

    Edit: At 1MW needed per charger, a 20MW SMR might just do it, which Last Energy claims to sell...
    Nah..

    That’s slacker thinking.

    Detonate a 20kt nuclear device in a cavern full of salt every 30 minutes. The molten salt reservoir drives a steam system that powers the turbines….

    #WhatWouldNealCloudDo
    Ha!

    Seriously though, nobody is getting a 10-20MW connection to every petrol station, surely?

    You'd need local battery storage, though that would probably need as large an exclusion zone as a nuclear device.
    That’s already happening at sites in the US. Quite a few have a solar panel roof to create shade. Which helps feed the containers of batteries.

    In the long term, yes, your local petrol station will be a pretty serious electricity substation.

    And in fact there is a major synergy there. The battery storage can also be used to time shift power and make the local grid more stable and secure. Buying and selling electricity to/from the generating companies….
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,834
    Kraut on BBC news panels...

    Dear @BBCNews in case you have not noticed or somehow missed out on the last 20 years, the Putin regime in Russia is a brutal dictatorship that kidnaps, imprisons, disappears, tortures, and murders anyone who opposes it. So could you stop asking Russian anti-war activists (including the one who is a friend of mine) to go on a "debate panel" to "debate" pro-war Russian regime propagandists, and thereby identify themselves to the Russian regime? Your job is to report the news, and not to emulate the morons that inhabit twitch.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr_Q-bPpcw5fJ-Oow1BW1NQ/community?lb=UgkxP1r5X2-z3VnW3WiIeQddG40mFtX8weEa
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,701
    Trump calls for impeachment of judge in Venezuela deportation case in a vile 1930s Germany post. Chief Justice Roberts has said this kind of talk is sub-optimal and using the appeal process is the better way.

    Is SCOTUS going to get radical and start protecting judges from intimidatory maniacs? Is it a sign that SCOTUS thinks enough is enough?

    The Guardian is covering it in US politics live.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,418

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast as any long term effects on battery life.
    I can recall when fast charging was “impossible”, according to various experts. Who weren’t actually expert in battery chemistry.

    The key will be temperature control of the battery during the charging process, I will bet.
    And a lot of the BYD announcement seems to cover that with a new chemical compound.

    Got to say if it was anyone other than BYD I would consider the announcement as vapourware but not with their background and market position
    Their new factory will be around ten times the size of the Texas gigafactory.

    Apart from Trump's unreliable tariffs, does Tesla have any kind of moat now ?
    Tesla never did.

    The entertaining bit is that electric cars have also destroyed a lot of the premium market as electric cars remove a lot of the issues premium ICE sellers focus on.
    I’d say the charging network is still way ahead of everyone else. Which is why they won the charger standard war in the US - despite all the other manufacturers and the Biden administrations best efforts, combined.
    The charging network was an early mover advantage - I can’t see it lasting forever though
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,507
    edited March 18

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    There is a brand in China that does drive in / drive out battery swaps for their cars.
    There've been some attempts to do that elsewhere too - eg. the Tesla Battery Station pilot, which was tied to a temporary Californian subsidy regime in the mid 2010s. They tend to need so much infrastructure to safely handle the swaps that they've never really taken off.

    Silence has had some success over here selling scooters and "nanocars" (which, I guess, are technically invalid carriages) with swappable 5.6kWh batteries which have built-in wheels and are small enough to drag into your own house or garage. Not so good if you're in a flat or have steps, though!

    For anything larger I suspect that just expanding / improving the charging infra is going to end up being much cheaper in the end.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,181
    @JenniferJJacobs

    In a filing moments ago by Justice Dept, ICE doubled down on the Trump admin's refusal to honor Judge Boasberg's oral directive to turn the planes around, and said two planes left before court order was put in the written record. via
    @JakeMRosen
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,701
    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post: The WH28 party market has moved a lot recently. The Dems were 2.4 but it's close to 50/50 now. I think the reason is that Trump has surprised (although not me) on the downside. People were not quite expecting this level of corruption and incompetence.

    Is it a good idea to offer odds or place bets on events likely to be bent as to outcome? For me this is one to avoid, though theoretical for me as a very unbent Cheltenham, where the best horse won every time, has none the less left the betting budget at Zero.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,357

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
    Bet you that's cheaper than fitting EV chargers to every house and lamppost in the land.
    Probably not, actually.

    To start with, it means investing in infrastructure all the way from the power stations on an epic scale. The equality reports alone would take 10 years.
    Put a small nuclear reactor in a container at the back of the charging station?

    Though that might not be enough power.

    Edit: At 1MW needed per charger, a 20MW SMR might just do it, which Last Energy claims to sell...
    Nah..

    That’s slacker thinking.

    Detonate a 20kt nuclear device in a cavern full of salt every 30 minutes. The molten salt reservoir drives a steam system that powers the turbines….

    #WhatWouldNealCloudDo
    Ha!

    Seriously though, nobody is getting a 10-20MW connection to every petrol station, surely?

    You'd need local battery storage, though that would probably need as large an exclusion zone as a nuclear device.
    I don’t think you’d need anything like that.
    Most EVs won’t charge at that rate, and won’t for many years. It’s possibly quite useful for commercial vehicles like buses, though.

    A 500 kW charger would fully charge a 50kWh battery in ten minutes - which is about the maximum likely need for the next decade - so that’s about five cars an hour.

    A 10MW supply implies 100 cars an hour. How many petrol stations do that amount of business ?
    With local battery storage you could do more at peak hours, or get by with a smaller supply.

    And a lot of people will just trickle charge at home.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,066
    edited March 18
    viewcode said:

    Kraut on BBC news panels...

    Dear @BBCNews in case you have not noticed or somehow missed out on the last 20 years, the Putin regime in Russia is a brutal dictatorship that kidnaps, imprisons, disappears, tortures, and murders anyone who opposes it. So could you stop asking Russian anti-war activists (including the one who is a friend of mine) to go on a "debate panel" to "debate" pro-war Russian regime propagandists, and thereby identify themselves to the Russian regime? Your job is to report the news, and not to emulate the morons that inhabit twitch.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr_Q-bPpcw5fJ-Oow1BW1NQ/community?lb=UgkxP1r5X2-z3VnW3WiIeQddG40mFtX8weEa

    TBH, if they are visible to the BBC as anti-war / anti-Putin, they will already be known by FSB. The BBC find their invitees for most things because they are already a known figure in that space, social media activity or that they volunteer themselves.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,803

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
    Bet you that's cheaper than fitting EV chargers to every house and lamppost in the land.
    Probably not, actually.

    To start with, it means investing in infrastructure all the way from the power stations on an epic scale. The equality reports alone would take 10 years.
    Put a small nuclear reactor in a container at the back of the charging station?

    Though that might not be enough power.

    Edit: At 1MW needed per charger, a 20MW SMR might just do it, which Last Energy claims to sell...
    Nah..

    That’s slacker thinking.

    Detonate a 20kt nuclear device in a cavern full of salt every 30 minutes. The molten salt reservoir drives a steam system that powers the turbines….

    #WhatWouldNealCloudDo
    Ha!

    Seriously though, nobody is getting a 10-20MW connection to every petrol station, surely?

    You'd need local battery storage, though that would probably need as large an exclusion zone as a nuclear device.
    That’s already happening at sites in the US. Quite a few have a solar panel roof to create shade. Which helps feed the containers of batteries.

    In the long term, yes, your local petrol station will be a pretty serious electricity substation.

    And in fact there is a major synergy there. The battery storage can also be used to time shift power and make the local grid more stable and secure. Buying and selling electricity to/from the generating companies….
    I wonder if having lots of smaller charging stations will be the answer. There will be a sweet spot between 8,000 charging stations and 34 million individual charging points.

    For example, they are going to fit EV chargers to the new laybys along the A9.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,181
    Eabhal said:

    For example, they are going to fit EV chargers to the new laybys along the A9.

    Before or after they finish dualling it...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,690
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    Like farmers?
    Speaking of Elon & Tesla...

    EVs could be charged as fast as filling a petrol car after breakthrough
    Chinese manufacturer BYD develops system that cuts wait time to five minutes

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/18/evs-charged-fast-filling-petrol-car-breakthrough/ (£££)
    Be interesting to see if putting so much charge into the battery so fast has any long term effects on battery life.
    If batteries end up being super cheap (and possible to swap out), then that isn't much of an issue either.

    This is super exciting. We've made next to no effort to put in EV infrastructure in the UK (only invested about £3 billion), so this might be the sort of game changer that we need. Much cheaper than retrofitting charge points to houses and lampposts.
    Er no.

    To charge that fast means delivering electricity in large amounts, very quickly.

    To charge to 80%, say, with 10% “in the tank” means delivering 70KWh in 5 minutes.

    On an 800 volt system that is *thousands of amps*

    That will require infrastructure, all right. Lots of it.
    Bet you that's cheaper than fitting EV chargers to every house and lamppost in the land.
    Probably not, actually.

    To start with, it means investing in infrastructure all the way from the power stations on an epic scale. The equality reports alone would take 10 years.
    My back-of-envelope has it at about £50 billion to install a charging point for every car in the UK. Probably a bit more given you'll likely have more charging points than cars, including workplace parking etc.

    That's roughly equivalent to £6 million per fuel station. No idea if it's feasible to get enough power to each location for that kind of cost.
    Very fast charging changes this, surely? We do not need a petrol pump for every car.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,422
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post: The WH28 party market has moved a lot recently. The Dems were 2.4 but it's close to 50/50 now. I think the reason is that Trump has surprised (although not me) on the downside. People were not quite expecting this level of corruption and incompetence.

    Is it a good idea to offer odds or place bets on events likely to be bent as to outcome? For me this is one to avoid, though theoretical for me as a very unbent Cheltenham, where the best horse won every time, has none the less left the betting budget at Zero.
    What about that Willie Mullins 100/1 shot? The rank outsider of his 11 runners in the race. Very strange one.
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