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We potentially are over four years away from the next election, a lot can happen between now & then

SystemSystem Posts: 12,318
edited February 17 in General
We potentially are over four years away from the next election, a lot can happen between now & then - politicalbetting.com

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  • eekeek Posts: 29,121
    edited February 17
    First as I suspect Reform will be in 2028

    simply because Labour won't improve the lot of the don't haves so as with Redcar the electorate will vote for the next party on the list having discounted the ones that promised but failed to deliver.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    edited February 17
    Second.

    I'm not so sure on Reform. To me their coalition looks fragile.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887
    edited February 17
    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    Third.

    I need @Leon to tell me how many cats there are in Zanzibar today.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,152

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    46 000 dead and 390 000 wounded would be about half of Russian losses by best estimates. It sounds about right.

    What a waste, and Putin could stop it any time by withdrawing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,614
    edited February 17

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,560

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    The 350k dead Russians is probably quite near the mark. The rest of the 860k the Ukrainians cite will be maimed, missing/deserted or POWs.

    Certain Russian troop types will have been destroyed and be down to new recruits. Such as tank crews. Their life expectency now will be lower than that of WW2 German U-boat crews.

    The number of Ukrainian POWs is very difficult to know as the Russians have a tendency to execute their captured POWs.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,152
    edited February 17
    MattW said:

    Second.

    I'm not so sure on Reform. To me their coalition looks fragile.

    Yes, and as they gain prominence their policies will get more scrutiny. Tice denying climate change for example. There are reasonable arguments to be had about how we should best adjust, but to deny that it is happening is just facile.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    edited February 17
    MattW said:

    Second.

    I'm not so sure on Reform. To me their coalition looks fragile.

    How will they resolve their tensions:

    - Patriotism vs Trumpism when the USA turns its back on allies and the rest of the world.
    - Between Rich men based in Dubai or the US or wherever feathering their nests vs grass roots who want to be loyal British.
    - The enormous black holes in their Manifesto between declared intention to shrink the state and policies that require much more public investment.
    - The contribution their MPs actually make to doing their jobs vs their second jobs in media.
    - The tensions between various shades of Right in their internal coalition, and the supporters they need to attract from the mainstream.

    I don't see it holding together.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,845

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    The 350k dead Russians is probably quite near the mark. The rest of the 860k the Ukrainians cite will be maimed, missing/deserted or POWs.

    Certain Russian troop types will have been destroyed and be down to new recruits. Such as tank crews. Their life expectency now will be lower than that of WW2 German U-boat crews.

    The number of Ukrainian POWs is very difficult to know as the Russians have a tendency to execute their captured POWs.

    It's a complete human tragedy.

    I despair.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    Is he still on holiday?

    I did not know his tentacles reach to Planet Trump, where Space Karen squats on the throne.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,560
    MattW said:

    Third.

    I need @Leon to tell me how many cats there are in Zanzibar today.

    Too many, seems to be general concensus.

    However, the Zanzibar Leopard is probably no more:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanzibar_leopard
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121
    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,152
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Second.

    I'm not so sure on Reform. To me their coalition looks fragile.

    How will they resolve their tensions:

    - Patriotism vs Trumpism when the USA turns its back on allies and the rest of the world.
    - Between Rich men based in Dubai or the US feathering their nests vs grass roots who want to be loyal British.
    - The enormous black holes in their Manifesto between declared intention to shrink the state and policies that require much more public investment.
    - The contribution their MPs actually make to doing their jobs vs their second jobs in media.
    - The tensions between various shades of Right in their internal coalition, and the supporters they need to attract from the mainstream.

    I don't see it holding together.
    I don't see it holding together either, but the question is one of timing. Will they fall apart before or after forming a government?

    They have the potential to make POTUS 47 look like a model of administrative competence.
  • pancakespancakes Posts: 37
    Pedley's statement that Trump won't be president at the next UK election is not necessarily true. We no longer have fixed term parliaments. It isn't uncommon for GEs to be held a year or so before the five year deadline.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,560
    pancakes said:

    Pedley's statement that Trump won't be president at the next UK election is not necessarily true. We no longer have fixed term parliaments. It isn't uncommon for GEs to be held a year or so before the five year deadline.

    Quite likely if Labour's fortunes improve.

    Mind, that's a big caveat.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    In Emil Bove, Trump has found his Roy Cohn replacement. There's even some facial resemblance.

    Trump DOJ Assigns Sensitive Ethics Powers to Political Aides
    https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/trump-doj-delegates-sensitive-ethics-powers-to-political-aides
    The Trump Justice Department has assigned politically appointed newcomers decisionmaking power over sensitive matters, including ethics, employee discipline, and release of information sought by inspectors general and Congress, stripping these authorities from the longstanding oversight of a senior career official.

    Acting Deputy Attorney General Emil Bove, in a Jan. 27 memo reviewed by Bloomberg Law, handed the authorities to two of his staffers — one a former criminal defense lawyer for President Donald Trump and another a 2021 law school graduate.

    The two political appointees will be able to make final determinations on “adverse personnel actions and bar referral matters,” ethics recusals and waivers, nominee financial disclosures, and a variety of other delicate professional responsibility decisions that have historically been handled instead by the department’s highest-ranking career official...


  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    edited February 17

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    I'm not sure on the "much higher" on the Russian number. All the figures around the published numbers by Ukraine MOD (currently 859920) also includes "horse de combat" ie wounded, sick, captured, or incapacitated.

    Our media (and some commentators) have consistently, but occasionally, interpreted that number as "killed".

    Ukraine MOD number for Russians has quite reliably matched UK MOD and USA estimates to within about 10-20%.

    I am not aware of anyone published who has visibility on the higher Ukraine number.

    ( @Malmesbury ?)


  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,768
    edited February 17
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    edited February 17
    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The Ukranian figures for Russian casualties are in the 1,500 - 2,000 per day range, and have been for several months now. They have plenty of videos to back up the numbers, most of which you won’t want to watch.

    The NorKs fighting in Kursk in particular have had a total schocker, 10k men lasted about three weeks before they had to withdraw and regroup in a much smaller group. They have desertion problems, communication problems, language problems, blue-on-blue problems, and general tactical problems in that they don’t know how to fight this type of war.

    There’s also reports of injured soldiers back on front lines as drivers or weapons operators, and the infantry transport vehicles are now mostly old civilian Ladas or motorbikes, leaving them sitting ducks for drone and artillery attacks. The killed-to-wounded ratio isn’t going to get any better for the Russians than that current 2-1

    Here’s one tactical video from yesterday, the enemy lost close to 100 men defending a single field in 24 hours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sHyCeakBYs
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,845

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    The 350k dead Russians is probably quite near the mark. The rest of the 860k the Ukrainians cite will be maimed, missing/deserted or POWs.

    Certain Russian troop types will have been destroyed and be down to new recruits. Such as tank crews. Their life expectency now will be lower than that of WW2 German U-boat crews.

    The number of Ukrainian POWs is very difficult to know as the Russians have a tendency to execute their captured POWs.

    It's a complete human tragedy.

    I despair.
    A complete human tragedy whose origins can be laid at the door of one man.

    It's where I wish James Bond were a real thing.

    Then again, there are so many ultra-nationalists in Russia. The rot goes deep.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,611
    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The 2021 census suggests about 50m Russians between 18 and 44. Assume half male and knock a few off at each end and, based on the U.S. estimate of 700k dead or wounded, that’s devastating.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,232
    MattW said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    I'm not sure on the "much higher" on the Russian number. All the figures around the published numbers by Ukraine MOD (currently 859920) also includes "horse de combat" ie wounded, sick, captured, or incapacitated.

    Our media (and some commentators) have consistently, but occasionally, interpreted that number as "killed".

    Ukraine MOD number for Russians has quite reliably matched UK MOD and USA estimates to within about 10-20%.

    I am not aware of anyone published who has visibility on the higher Ukraine number.

    ( @Malmesbury ?)


    Hors de combat. Hope that was autocorrect :-)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,768

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Relatedly.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1891195175566729708
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The 2021 census suggests about 50m Russians between 18 and 44. Assume half male and knock a few off at each end and, based on the U.S. estimate of 700k dead or wounded, that’s devastating.
    or to be 100% clear - there is approximately 1million males in every year group. 70% of them are dead.

    Worse Russia have conscription so it's very likely that there is a significant and permanent gender gap in the age range of 18-24....
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121
    edited February 17

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Relatedly.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1891195175566729708
    Except for Hitler and Napoleon has anyone actually cared about Russia to the point of invading it..

    Edit and the Mongols but they were a unique case..
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    Nigelb said:

    In Emil Bove, Trump has found his Roy Cohn replacement. There's even some facial resemblance.

    Trump DOJ Assigns Sensitive Ethics Powers to Political Aides
    https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/trump-doj-delegates-sensitive-ethics-powers-to-political-aides
    The Trump Justice Department has assigned politically appointed newcomers decisionmaking power over sensitive matters, including ethics, employee discipline, and release of information sought by inspectors general and Congress, stripping these authorities from the longstanding oversight of a senior career official.

    Acting Deputy Attorney General Emil Bove, in a Jan. 27 memo reviewed by Bloomberg Law, handed the authorities to two of his staffers — one a former criminal defense lawyer for President Donald Trump and another a 2021 law school graduate.

    The two political appointees will be able to make final determinations on “adverse personnel actions and bar referral matters,” ethics recusals and waivers, nominee financial disclosures, and a variety of other delicate professional responsibility decisions that have historically been handled instead by the department’s highest-ranking career official...


    It's worth remembering that many of the key positions of the legal organisations in the new Trump regime, and around the Presidency, are occupied by former members of his personal legal team (including Alina Habba-Dabba-Doo who is serving as a Counselor to the President).

    Some, such as Pam Bondi the attorney General, have records of (here I say apparent) corruption, in addition to their poisonous politics. Bondi has a record of decisions favourable to parties related to political donations from those parties - including Trump.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Bondi
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,768
    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Relatedly.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1891195175566729708
    Except for Hitler has anyone actually cared about Russia to the point of invading it..
    That French bloke who Trump has suddenly become fond of quoting.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Relatedly.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1891195175566729708
    Except for Hitler has anyone actually cared about Russia to the point of invading it..
    That French bloke who Trump has suddenly become fond of quoting.
    and the Mongols. But my point was that no one currently wants to invade Russia we simply don't see the point as it's irrelevant in the modern world...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,614
    edited February 17
    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Relatedly.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1891195175566729708
    Except for Hitler and Napoleon has anyone actually cared about Russia to the point of invading it..

    Edit and the Mongols but they were a unique case..
    Napoleon.

    And the Poles in 1609 and 1920.

    And the Swedes in 1708.

    Apart from that I'm struggling.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,741
    MattW said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    I'm not sure on the "much higher" on the Russian number. All the figures around the published numbers by Ukraine MOD (currently 859920) also includes "horse de combat" ie wounded, sick, captured, or incapacitated.

    Our media (and some commentators) have consistently, but occasionally, interpreted that number as "killed".

    Ukraine MOD number for Russians has quite reliably matched UK MOD and USA estimates to within about 10-20%.

    I am not aware of anyone published who has visibility on the higher Ukraine number.

    ( @Malmesbury ?)


    The only "higher-than-expected" numbers I have seen are around estimates for the proportion of deaths in the total casualties figures as a result of poor combat medicine / evacuation / field hospital facilities etc. on the Russian side.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,232
    edited February 17

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    I'm not sure on the "much higher" on the Russian number. All the figures around the published numbers by Ukraine MOD (currently 859920) also includes "horse de combat" ie wounded, sick, captured, or incapacitated.

    Our media (and some commentators) have consistently, but occasionally, interpreted that number as "killed".

    Ukraine MOD number for Russians has quite reliably matched UK MOD and USA estimates to within about 10-20%.

    I am not aware of anyone published who has visibility on the higher Ukraine number.

    ( @Malmesbury ?)


    Hors de combat. Hope that was autocorrect :-)
    Horse de combat is the term for the absence of BatteryCorrectHorse.
    Going to start calling Armchair Generals "Bore de Combat".
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    edited February 17
    eek said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The 2021 census suggests about 50m Russians between 18 and 44. Assume half male and knock a few off at each end and, based on the U.S. estimate of 700k dead or wounded, that’s devastating.
    or to be 100% clear - there is approximately 1million males in every year group. 70% of them are dead.

    Worse Russia have conscription so it's very likely that there is a significant and permanent gender gap in the age range of 18-24....
    As part of the deal to end the war, we should ‘ask’ Russia to resettle migrants deported from Western countries who don’t wish to return to their country of citizenship, the vast majority of whom are young males.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,828
    ydoethur said:



    And the Poles in 1920.

    Wasn't aware of that one till now. Never got taught France occupied the Ruhr for a couple of years in the 20s at school either.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,152
    edited February 17
    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Relatedly.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1891195175566729708
    Except for Hitler and Napoleon has anyone actually cared about Russia to the point of invading it..

    Edit and the Mongols but they were a unique case..
    Varangian Vikings, Swedes, Teutonic Knights, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Ottomans? All invaded Russia/Muskovy.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,741
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Relatedly.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1891195175566729708
    Except for Hitler and Napoleon has anyone actually cared about Russia to the point of invading it..

    Edit and the Mongols but they were a unique case..
    Napoleon.

    And the Poles in 1609 and 1920.

    And the Swedes in 1708.

    Apart from that I'm struggling.
    The Finns knocked the Soviets out of their territory and ultimately got within 20 miles of Leningrad (and besieged it) in their post-Winter War invasion 41-44.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,880
    edited February 17
    removed - otiose
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,845
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The 2021 census suggests about 50m Russians between 18 and 44. Assume half male and knock a few off at each end and, based on the U.S. estimate of 700k dead or wounded, that’s devastating.
    In slightly happier times, this is Chicane (one of my favourite electronic trance artists) playing to the Tele-Club in Yekaterinburg in 2011. You can feel yourself being part of that crowd. Loads of young Russians going crazy to a British dance artist and singer, and fully unified by the euphoria of the music.

    How many of them are now dead?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfIp64A3CI
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    MattW said:

    Third.

    I need @Leon to tell me how many cats there are in Zanzibar today.

    I’m afraid I cannot give you a firm answer to such a necessarily indeterminate question
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,768
    The Second Coming is probably the best poetic prediction going. The worst
    are definitely full of passionate intensity, and they've got guns and the internet.

    https://x.com/KashifMD/status/1891289023932428604
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,152
    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Relatedly.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1891195175566729708
    Except for Hitler and Napoleon has anyone actually cared about Russia to the point of invading it..

    Edit and the Mongols but they were a unique case..
    Varangian Vikings, Swedes, Teutonic Knights, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Ottomans? All invaded Russia/Muskovy.
    And of course both us and the French did in the Crimean war. There was also the international occupation troops 1919-20 too.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    It's more stupid than that. He counts the "Ethnic Russian" population as part of his power. Hence the pushing of the Untermensch to the front lines. Big armies to march in big parades etc....

    Part of the reason the Nativist Russian Nationalists wanted Ukraine was the extra Ethnic Russians there, in face of collapsing birth rates in Russia itself.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,614
    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Relatedly.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1891195175566729708
    Except for Hitler and Napoleon has anyone actually cared about Russia to the point of invading it..

    Edit and the Mongols but they were a unique case..
    Varangian Vikings, Swedes, Teutonic Knights, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Ottomans? All invaded Russia/Muskovy.
    French and British in 1853.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The 2021 census suggests about 50m Russians between 18 and 44. Assume half male and knock a few off at each end and, based on the U.S. estimate of 700k dead or wounded, that’s devastating.
    In slightly happier times, this is Chicane (one of my favourite electronic trance artists) playing to the Tele-Club in Yekaterinburg in 2011. You can feel yourself being part of that crowd. Loads of young Russians going crazy to a British dance artist and singer, and fully unified by the euphoria of the music.

    How many of them are now dead?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfIp64A3CI
    Yes it’s horrifying, whole generations of people wiped out to try and satisfy Putin’s ego.

    Generations that could see in the past decade a life and opportunity closer to what we lived in the West, suddenly plunged into a war of attrition that very few of them support.

    The lucky few have managed to escape somewhere, but only the wealthy or very skilled will be able to resettle there. Of those who have moved out of Russia, there’s little appetite from them to return even after the war is over.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,018

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Rejection of life is a revolutionary act. I.S. Turgenev created the character of Bazarov as a parody of the Men of the Sixties but actually become an unironic role model for young Russians. This nihilism then became violent through agency of the New Men like Zaitsev and Nechayev (the basis for Shigalev and Verkhovensky in F. M. Dostoyevsky's Demons).

    Life denying fanaticism is deeply embedded in Russian culture and unless one is able to grasp, in totality, and politically contextualise the Nechayev Affair then it's impossible to make any serious comment on the SMO.

    Start with Bakunin and Nechayev's Revolutionary Catechism. Nechayev also recommended sleeping on a hard wooden board.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,741

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The 2021 census suggests about 50m Russians between 18 and 44. Assume half male and knock a few off at each end and, based on the U.S. estimate of 700k dead or wounded, that’s devastating.
    In slightly happier times, this is Chicane (one of my favourite electronic trance artists) playing to the Tele-Club in Yekaterinburg in 2011. You can feel yourself being part of that crowd. Loads of young Russians going crazy to a British dance artist and singer, and fully unified by the euphoria of the music.

    How many of them are now dead?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfIp64A3CI
    One of things you see in personal diaries of German soldiers in late 1944/1945 is the sense that "ordinary Germans" are being severely impacted by the war. This motivates them to support the overall war effort, and fight much more strongly than they would otherwise have done; despite it being apparent to (almost) everyone by that stage that the war is lost in any strategic or political sense.

    On these numbers, a plurality of Russians must know someone fairly close to them who has been killed or wounded in the conflict - but that may be enough just to increase the determination to continue the war, rather than to end it.
  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 517
    "Trump won't even be president at the next UK GE" .... looking at the constitutional crisis brewing in the states that cannot be said with any certainty.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    edited February 17
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Second.

    I'm not so sure on Reform. To me their coalition looks fragile.

    How will they resolve their tensions:

    - Patriotism vs Trumpism when the USA turns its back on allies and the rest of the world.
    - Between Rich men based in Dubai or the US feathering their nests vs grass roots who want to be loyal British.
    - The enormous black holes in their Manifesto between declared intention to shrink the state and policies that require much more public investment.
    - The contribution their MPs actually make to doing their jobs vs their second jobs in media.
    - The tensions between various shades of Right in their internal coalition, and the supporters they need to attract from the mainstream.

    I don't see it holding together.
    I don't see it holding together either, but the question is one of timing. Will they fall apart before or after forming a government?

    They have the potential to make POTUS 47 look like a model of administrative competence.
    I think that actually may be dependent on how quickly Trump's moves develop. If Trump starts throwing tariffs around and stabbing Ukraine in the back very quickly, that could inflame it. It could impact on the Local Elections if we are into emergency measures and so on in weeks.

    Farage (and especially Tice) are already under tension between trying to support Trump wrt Ukraine and the consistently firm position of the British public - afaics the Reform support in the UK is mainained by an endless conveyor belt of shouting at clouds, some of which (eg the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and Local Councils digging up war graves, the one we do not talk about here) are fabricated / hugely exaggerated narratives.

    We've seen previous tensions over support for Elon Musk trying to drive neo-fascism in European politics, and support for Yaxley-Lennon.

    Plus we are still in the dead zone before Labour start to deliver results - we have no even had the measures from the first budget come into force yet. The ~2009 Margaret Hodge piece I linked last summer that the key factor to take the foundations away from the further Right (choose your word - she was fighting Nick Griffin but the insights apply) was for services and prosperity to improve. What happens when NHS Waiting Lists are reduced by 2 million?

    Here is the somewhat challenged Tice vs (of all people) Julia Hartley-Brewer:

    https://x.com/TalkTV/status/1889993335177138530

    We may agree or not on the positions taken, but he's getting some aggro.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121
    edited February 17
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The 2021 census suggests about 50m Russians between 18 and 44. Assume half male and knock a few off at each end and, based on the U.S. estimate of 700k dead or wounded, that’s devastating.
    or to be 100% clear - there is approximately 1million males in every year group. 70% of them are dead.

    Worse Russia have conscription so it's very likely that there is a significant and permanent gender gap in the age range of 18-24....
    As part of the deal to end the war, we should ‘ask’ Russia to resettle migrants deported from Western countries who don’t wish to return to their country of citizenship, the vast majority of whom are young males.
    I don't think the ECHR allows us to send people to a country that would use them as cannon fodder in their next war.

    Reality is Russia having destroyed a generation of it's own people should live with the consequences of a far smaller population in the future...
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,794
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Relatedly.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1891195175566729708
    Except for Hitler and Napoleon has anyone actually cared about Russia to the point of invading it..

    Edit and the Mongols but they were a unique case..
    Napoleon.

    And the Poles in 1609 and 1920.

    And the Swedes in 1708.

    Apart from that I'm struggling.
    There's a longer list here

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Russia
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,018
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Relatedly.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1891195175566729708
    Except for Hitler and Napoleon has anyone actually cared about Russia to the point of invading it..

    Edit and the Mongols but they were a unique case..
    Napoleon.

    And the Poles in 1609 and 1920.

    And the Swedes in 1708.
    This is the reason the colours of Ukraine are blue and yellow like Sweden (and Boca Juniors). The Hetman of the Zaporizhian Host and Left Bank Ukraine switched sides, abandoning Tsar Peter I and chucking his lot in with Charles XII of Sweden. Then, as now, it didn't really work out.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    The list of 150-year-olds in the US social security database is apparently even more complicated than was first thought.

    Number of entries for each age range decade, where “Dead” = False in the database.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891398562874818990

    There’s 12m entries aged over 120, and they’re not all exactly the same age.

    Suspect there’s a lot of dates of birth that are 100 years away from what they should be, and 1,000 people seemingly born in 1,800.

    It’s worth remembering that it’s only a handful of years ago that the last Civil War widow was still alive, and receiving her pension. She died in 2020, 155 years after the war finished!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    .
    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Rejection of life is a revolutionary act. I.S. Turgenev created the character of Bazarov as a parody of the Men of the Sixties but actually become an unironic role model for young Russians. This nihilism then became violent through agency of the New Men like Zaitsev and Nechayev (the basis for Shigalev and Verkhovensky in F. M. Dostoyevsky's Demons).

    Life denying fanaticism is deeply embedded in Russian culture and unless one is able to grasp, in totality, and politically contextualise the Nechayev Affair then it's impossible to make any serious comment on the SMO.

    Start with Bakunin and Nechayev's Revolutionary Catechism. Nechayev also recommended sleeping on a hard wooden board.
    And you're surprised Ukraine isn't keen to be assimilated into that empire ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,614
    Sandpit said:

    The list of 150-year-olds in the US social security database is apparently even more complicated than was first thought.

    Number of entries for each age range decade, where “Dead” = False in the database.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891398562874818990

    There’s 12m entries aged over 120, and they’re not all exactly the same age.

    Suspect there’s a lot of dates of birth that are 100 years away from what they should be, and 1,000 people seemingly born in 1,800.

    It’s worth remembering that it’s only a handful of years ago that the last Civil War widow was still alive, and receiving her pension. She died in 2020, 155 years after the war finished!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century

    The last civil war widow didn't actually receive her pension - she didn't claim it because her son-in-law threatened her if she did.

    A disabled daughter of a veteran was still receiving a pension until 2020, however.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922
    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Rejection of life is a revolutionary act. I.S. Turgenev created the character of Bazarov as a parody of the Men of the Sixties but actually become an unironic role model for young Russians. This nihilism then became violent through agency of the New Men like Zaitsev and Nechayev (the basis for Shigalev and Verkhovensky in F. M. Dostoyevsky's Demons).

    Life denying fanaticism is deeply embedded in Russian culture and unless one is able to grasp, in totality, and politically contextualise the Nechayev Affair then it's impossible to make any serious comment on the SMO.

    Start with Bakunin and Nechayev's Revolutionary Catechism. Nechayev also recommended sleeping on a hard wooden board.
    ¡Viva la Muerte!

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,845
    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The 2021 census suggests about 50m Russians between 18 and 44. Assume half male and knock a few off at each end and, based on the U.S. estimate of 700k dead or wounded, that’s devastating.
    In slightly happier times, this is Chicane (one of my favourite electronic trance artists) playing to the Tele-Club in Yekaterinburg in 2011. You can feel yourself being part of that crowd. Loads of young Russians going crazy to a British dance artist and singer, and fully unified by the euphoria of the music.

    How many of them are now dead?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfIp64A3CI
    That's great. Chicane are great. Sigh. All gone now..

    However I have a Yekaterinberg story

    Around 1990, just after the fall of the Berlin Wall, I tried to cure my heroin addiction by taking the Trans Siberian across Russia to Vladivostok, there to take the first ever civilian boat out of that port, to Japan (it was a newspaper commission)

    Given my intense habit it was predictably chaotic and all went predictably very wrong (at one point I got thrown off a troop train in the Siberian taiga, at midnight - literally left to the wolves). The whole story is pretty mind boggling

    At another point I ended up sleeping three nights in Yekaterinberg airport - sleeping so heavily the airport security woman was worried I was very ill, or that I might starve. So she gave me a boiled rabbit

    Eventually she helped me get from the airport to the station so I could re-discover my train, but on the way I realised we were passing the place, site of the Ipatiev House, where the Romanovs were shot dead in a cellar

    I got out the car and approached the bare patch of earth - marked by one of those weird skewed Siberian crosses. There was no other memorial, nothing but the cross, it was otherwise just a patch of waste ground in the thin Siberian summer sun (this was one year after the end of communism)

    As I stood there imagining the horrible scene, the gun fire mowing down the imperial children, a babushka emerged from nowhere and scuttled over to me and pressed something hard and metal into my hand, then she crossed herself, and disappeared

    I looked down. It was a handsome metal badge with the double headed imperial eagle of the Romanovs. I still have it now

    It was so long ago I think Yekaterinberg was still called Sverdlovsk
    That's an amazing story.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    A further note to @Foxy.

    There are also tensions starting to bubble up in the USA amongst Trump's core base.

    We already have Trump supporters having their workforces, families and spouses deported. And monies being cut off abruptly in the USA as they were cut off across the world when USAID was shuttered. For example I saw one where a farmer had had his federally funded fencing and drainage project stopped in its tracks when half-built.

    But if for example if the Department of Education gets shuttered, that will impact Red States which get the most money effectively cross-subsidised from Blue States.

    There's also things like cuts to Medidaid and so on, and NIH research cuts are impacting Universities in Red States. There was one (may have been Alabama) where the University was the most significant employer.
    https://archive.is/20250212171438/https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/12/trump-universities-funding-cuts-016328

    Any of that could blow up unpredictably. And when tariffs start impacting or retaliaton comes in ... eg Canada supplies the overwhelming majority of heavy crude refined in Texas, with few alternatives (aiui Venezuela, Russia). For example, what happens if Canada does a reverse tariff and puts 10% on the price?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    edited February 17

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The 2021 census suggests about 50m Russians between 18 and 44. Assume half male and knock a few off at each end and, based on the U.S. estimate of 700k dead or wounded, that’s devastating.
    In slightly happier times, this is Chicane (one of my favourite electronic trance artists) playing to the Tele-Club in Yekaterinburg in 2011. You can feel yourself being part of that crowd. Loads of young Russians going crazy to a British dance artist and singer, and fully unified by the euphoria of the music.

    How many of them are now dead?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfIp64A3CI
    That's great. Chicane are great. Sigh. All gone now..

    However I have a Yekaterinberg story

    Around 1990, just after the fall of the Berlin Wall, I tried to cure my heroin addiction by taking the Trans Siberian across Russia to Vladivostok, there to take the first ever civilian boat out of that port, to Japan (it was a newspaper commission)

    Given my intense habit it was predictably chaotic and all went predictably very wrong (at one point I got thrown off a troop train in the Siberian taiga, at midnight - literally left to the wolves). The whole story is pretty mind boggling

    At another point I ended up sleeping three nights in Yekaterinberg airport - sleeping so heavily the airport security woman was worried I was very ill, or that I might starve. So she gave me a boiled rabbit

    Eventually she helped me get from the airport to the station so I could re-discover my train, but on the way I realised we were passing the place, site of the Ipatiev House, where the Romanovs were shot dead in a cellar

    I got out the car and approached the bare patch of earth - marked by one of those weird skewed Siberian crosses. There was no other memorial, nothing but the cross, it was otherwise just a patch of waste ground in the thin Siberian summer sun (this was one year after the end of communism)

    As I stood there imagining the horrible scene, the gun fire mowing down the imperial children, a babushka emerged from nowhere and scuttled over to me and pressed something hard and metal into my hand, then she crossed herself, and disappeared

    I looked down. It was a handsome metal badge with the double headed imperial eagle of the Romanovs. I still have it now

    It was so long ago I think Yekaterinberg was still called Sverdlovsk
    That's an amazing story.
    Mate, I have 100 like this. Ask @rcs1000...

    My problem is that I have too many!

    One day SOON I shall work out a way to thread the necklace

    (but thankyou for your kind words)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    edited February 17
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    The list of 150-year-olds in the US social security database is apparently even more complicated than was first thought.

    Number of entries for each age range decade, where “Dead” = False in the database.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891398562874818990

    There’s 12m entries aged over 120, and they’re not all exactly the same age.

    Suspect there’s a lot of dates of birth that are 100 years away from what they should be, and 1,000 people seemingly born in 1,800.

    It’s worth remembering that it’s only a handful of years ago that the last Civil War widow was still alive, and receiving her pension. She died in 2020, 155 years after the war finished!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century

    The last civil war widow didn't actually receive her pension - she didn't claim it because her son-in-law threatened her if she did.

    A disabled daughter of a veteran was still receiving a pension until 2020, however.
    Ah so the last widow actually receiving a pension died only 144 years after the war ended!

    Apparently the thinking within US social security is that their primary aim is to minimise complaints, which means minimising false negative flags in the database. No-one receiving money they’re not expecting is making a complaint, and for various reasons this has been happening for decades with no auditing.

    The working estimate for Musk’s team is several hundred billion dollars a year paid out incorrectly.

    When added to the story from last week of the federal employee retirement process still being done on paper and taking months to complete, It’s quite the insight into just how antequated are all of the systems they’re using. One can imagine that the UK government will also have a number of equally silly stories about systems that hang together by the barest of threads.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,198
    edited February 17
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The 2021 census suggests about 50m Russians between 18 and 44. Assume half male and knock a few off at each end and, based on the U.S. estimate of 700k dead or wounded, that’s devastating.
    In slightly happier times, this is Chicane (one of my favourite electronic trance artists) playing to the Tele-Club in Yekaterinburg in 2011. You can feel yourself being part of that crowd. Loads of young Russians going crazy to a British dance artist and singer, and fully unified by the euphoria of the music.

    How many of them are now dead?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfIp64A3CI
    That's great. Chicane are great. Sigh. All gone now..

    However I have a Yekaterinberg story

    Around 1990, just after the fall of the Berlin Wall, I tried to cure my heroin addiction by taking the Trans Siberian across Russia to Vladivostok, there to take the first ever civilian boat out of that port, to Japan (it was a newspaper commission)

    Given my intense habit it was predictably chaotic and all went predictably very wrong (at one point I got thrown off a troop train in the Siberian taiga, at midnight - literally left to the wolves). The whole story is pretty mind boggling

    At another point I ended up sleeping three nights in Yekaterinberg airport - sleeping so heavily the airport security woman was worried I was very ill, or that I might starve. So she gave me a boiled rabbit

    Eventually she helped me get from the airport to the station so I could re-discover my train, but on the way I realised we were passing the place, site of the Ipatiev House, where the Romanovs were shot dead in a cellar

    I got out the car and approached the bare patch of earth - marked by one of those weird skewed Siberian crosses. There was no other memorial, nothing but the cross, it was otherwise just a patch of waste ground in the thin Siberian summer sun (this was one year after the end of communism)

    As I stood there imagining the horrible scene, the gun fire mowing down the imperial children, a babushka emerged from nowhere and scuttled over to me and pressed something hard and metal into my hand, then she crossed herself, and disappeared

    I looked down. It was a handsome metal badge with the double headed imperial eagle of the Romanovs. I still have it now

    It was so long ago I think Yekaterinberg was still called Sverdlovsk
    That's an amazing story.
    Mate, I have 100 like this. Ask @rcs1000...

    My problem is that I have too many!

    One day SOON I shall work out a way to thread the necklace

    (but thankyou for your kind words)
    Surely you should write a book?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The 2021 census suggests about 50m Russians between 18 and 44. Assume half male and knock a few off at each end and, based on the U.S. estimate of 700k dead or wounded, that’s devastating.
    In slightly happier times, this is Chicane (one of my favourite electronic trance artists) playing to the Tele-Club in Yekaterinburg in 2011. You can feel yourself being part of that crowd. Loads of young Russians going crazy to a British dance artist and singer, and fully unified by the euphoria of the music.

    How many of them are now dead?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfIp64A3CI
    That's great. Chicane are great. Sigh. All gone now..

    However I have a Yekaterinberg story

    Around 1990, just after the fall of the Berlin Wall, I tried to cure my heroin addiction by taking the Trans Siberian across Russia to Vladivostok, there to take the first ever civilian boat out of that port, to Japan (it was a newspaper commission)

    Given my intense habit it was predictably chaotic and all went predictably very wrong (at one point I got thrown off a troop train in the Siberian taiga, at midnight - literally left to the wolves). The whole story is pretty mind boggling

    At another point I ended up sleeping three nights in Yekaterinberg airport - sleeping so heavily the airport security woman was worried I was very ill, or that I might starve. So she gave me a boiled rabbit

    Eventually she helped me get from the airport to the station so I could re-discover my train, but on the way I realised we were passing the place, site of the Ipatiev House, where the Romanovs were shot dead in a cellar

    I got out the car and approached the bare patch of earth - marked by one of those weird skewed Siberian crosses. There was no other memorial, nothing but the cross, it was otherwise just a patch of waste ground in the thin Siberian summer sun (this was one year after the end of communism)

    As I stood there imagining the horrible scene, the gun fire mowing down the imperial children, a babushka emerged from nowhere and scuttled over to me and pressed something hard and metal into my hand, then she crossed herself, and disappeared

    I looked down. It was a handsome metal badge with the double headed imperial eagle of the Romanovs. I still have it now

    It was so long ago I think Yekaterinberg was still called Sverdlovsk
    That's an amazing story.
    Mate, I have 100 like this. Ask @rcs1000...

    My problem is that I have too many!

    One day SOON I shall work out a way to thread the necklace

    (but thankyou for your kind words)
    If you have that many stories, you could write a book…
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    The list of 150-year-olds in the US social security database is apparently even more complicated than was first thought.

    Number of entries for each age range decade, where “Dead” = False in the database.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891398562874818990

    There’s 12m entries aged over 120, and they’re not all exactly the same age.

    Suspect there’s a lot of dates of birth that are 100 years away from what they should be, and 1,000 people seemingly born in 1,800.

    It’s worth remembering that it’s only a handful of years ago that the last Civil War widow was still alive, and receiving her pension. She died in 2020, 155 years after the war finished!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century

    The last civil war widow didn't actually receive her pension - she didn't claim it because her son-in-law threatened her if she did.

    A disabled daughter of a veteran was still receiving a pension until 2020, however.
    Ah so the last widow actually receiving a pension died only 144 years after the war ended!

    Apparently the thinking within US social security is that their primary aim is to minimise complaints, which means minimising false negative flags in the database. No-one receiving money they’re not expecting is making a complaint, and for various reasons this has been happening for decades with no auditing.

    The working estimate for Musk’s team is several hundred billion dollars a year paid out incorrectly.

    When added to the story from last week of the federal employee retirement process still being done on paper and taking months to complete, It’s quite the insight into just how antequated are all of the systems they’re using. One can imagine that the UK government will also have a number of equally silly stories about systems that hang together by the barest of threads.
    The biggest problem with the incompetent and ham fisted way this is being done, is that it will be a disaster and block attempts at genuine reform for a generation.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,595
    Sandpit said:

    The list of 150-year-olds in the US social security database is apparently even more complicated than was first thought.

    Number of entries for each age range decade, where “Dead” = False in the database.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891398562874818990

    There’s 12m entries aged over 120, and they’re not all exactly the same age.

    Suspect there’s a lot of dates of birth that are 100 years away from what they should be, and 1,000 people seemingly born in 1,800.

    (Snip)

    What amazes me is that you believe what Musk and his pimply nerds come out with. Why?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,198

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    The list of 150-year-olds in the US social security database is apparently even more complicated than was first thought.

    Number of entries for each age range decade, where “Dead” = False in the database.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891398562874818990

    There’s 12m entries aged over 120, and they’re not all exactly the same age.

    Suspect there’s a lot of dates of birth that are 100 years away from what they should be, and 1,000 people seemingly born in 1,800.

    It’s worth remembering that it’s only a handful of years ago that the last Civil War widow was still alive, and receiving her pension. She died in 2020, 155 years after the war finished!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century

    The last civil war widow didn't actually receive her pension - she didn't claim it because her son-in-law threatened her if she did.

    A disabled daughter of a veteran was still receiving a pension until 2020, however.
    Ah so the last widow actually receiving a pension died only 144 years after the war ended!

    Apparently the thinking within US social security is that their primary aim is to minimise complaints, which means minimising false negative flags in the database. No-one receiving money they’re not expecting is making a complaint, and for various reasons this has been happening for decades with no auditing.

    The working estimate for Musk’s team is several hundred billion dollars a year paid out incorrectly.

    When added to the story from last week of the federal employee retirement process still being done on paper and taking months to complete, It’s quite the insight into just how antequated are all of the systems they’re using. One can imagine that the UK government will also have a number of equally silly stories about systems that hang together by the barest of threads.
    The biggest problem with the incompetent and ham fisted way this is being done, is that it will be a disaster and block attempts at genuine reform for a generation.
    Sounds like May in her 2017 election.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Rejection of life is a revolutionary act. I.S. Turgenev created the character of Bazarov as a parody of the Men of the Sixties but actually become an unironic role model for young Russians. This nihilism then became violent through agency of the New Men like Zaitsev and Nechayev (the basis for Shigalev and Verkhovensky in F. M. Dostoyevsky's Demons).

    Life denying fanaticism is deeply embedded in Russian culture and unless one is able to grasp, in totality, and politically contextualise the Nechayev Affair then it's impossible to make any serious comment on the SMO.

    Start with Bakunin and Nechayev's Revolutionary Catechism. Nechayev also recommended sleeping on a hard wooden board.
    "Not one step back!"
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,018
    Leon said:

    There was no other memorial, nothing but the cross, it was otherwise just a patch of waste ground in the thin Siberian summer sun (this was one year after the end of communism)

    Yekaterinburg is not in Siberia. It's in the Ural Federal District.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417

    In addition to obvious straightforward deception, military casualty figures ca

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The 2021 census suggests about 50m Russians between 18 and 44. Assume half male and knock a few off at each end and, based on the U.S. estimate of 700k dead or wounded, that’s devastating.
    In slightly happier times, this is Chicane (one of my favourite electronic trance artists) playing to the Tele-Club in Yekaterinburg in 2011. You can feel yourself being part of that crowd. Loads of young Russians going crazy to a British dance artist and singer, and fully unified by the euphoria of the music.

    How many of them are now dead?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfIp64A3CI
    That's great. Chicane are great. Sigh. All gone now..

    However I have a Yekaterinberg story

    Around 1990, just after the fall of the Berlin Wall, I tried to cure my heroin addiction by taking the Trans Siberian across Russia to Vladivostok, there to take the first ever civilian boat out of that port, to Japan (it was a newspaper commission)

    Given my intense habit it was predictably chaotic and all went predictably very wrong (at one point I got thrown off a troop train in the Siberian taiga, at midnight - literally left to the wolves). The whole story is pretty mind boggling

    At another point I ended up sleeping three nights in Yekaterinberg airport - sleeping so heavily the airport security woman was worried I was very ill, or that I might starve. So she gave me a boiled rabbit

    Eventually she helped me get from the airport to the station so I could re-discover my train, but on the way I realised we were passing the place, site of the Ipatiev House, where the Romanovs were shot dead in a cellar

    I got out the car and approached the bare patch of earth - marked by one of those weird skewed Siberian crosses. There was no other memorial, nothing but the cross, it was otherwise just a patch of waste ground in the thin Siberian summer sun (this was one year after the end of communism)

    As I stood there imagining the horrible scene, the gun fire mowing down the imperial children, a babushka emerged from nowhere and scuttled over to me and pressed something hard and metal into my hand, then she crossed herself, and disappeared

    I looked down. It was a handsome metal badge with the double headed imperial eagle of the Romanovs. I still have it now

    It was so long ago I think Yekaterinberg was still called Sverdlovsk
    That's an amazing story.
    Mate, I have 100 like this. Ask @rcs1000...

    My problem is that I have too many!

    One day SOON I shall work out a way to thread the necklace

    (but thankyou for your kind words)
    Surely you should write a book?
    I know. I have. I am not sure it quite works yet - tho it might - because the stories are so wild and weird and also so disparate, from prisons to glaciers to warzones, from kidnaps to knife fights to mad crazy sex in absurd dangerous places, on and on, it is difficult to shape them into a narrative. There is also an element of believability. Like, how could one person do all that?? And stil lbe alive? Is a common reaction

    Thankfully for many of the later stories I have plentiful photo evidence (once cameraphones came along). Also police records, in places

    But I certainly do not lack material...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,633
    Sandpit said:

    The working estimate for Musk’s team is several hundred billion dollars a year paid out incorrectly.

    I don't think there is any dispute that there is waste in Government spending.

    The problem the fratboys are causing is that they can't tell the difference. They are cutting off limbs instead of trimming fat.

    The end result is likely to be increased expense to try and repair some of the damage.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,595

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    This is timely given Perun's latest video on Russian recruitment.

    Does this mean that the Red Cross is not getting access to Ukrainians in Russian captivity?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,633

    The biggest problem with the incompetent and ham fisted way this is being done, is that it will be a disaster and block attempts at genuine reform for a generation.

    Precisely
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    There was no other memorial, nothing but the cross, it was otherwise just a patch of waste ground in the thin Siberian summer sun (this was one year after the end of communism)

    Yekaterinburg is not in Siberia. It's in the Ural Federal District.
    Thanks for that important correction

    I suspect it might have been lost on the Romanovs, who would deffo have felt they were being despatched to "Siberia"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,614
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    There was no other memorial, nothing but the cross, it was otherwise just a patch of waste ground in the thin Siberian summer sun (this was one year after the end of communism)

    Yekaterinburg is not in Siberia. It's in the Ural Federal District.
    Thanks for that important correction

    I suspect it might have been lost on the Romanovs, who would deffo have felt they were being despatched to "Siberia"
    Weren't they coming back from Siberia when stopped in Yekaterinburg?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,828
    edited February 17
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    The list of 150-year-olds in the US social security database is apparently even more complicated than was first thought.

    Number of entries for each age range decade, where “Dead” = False in the database.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891398562874818990

    There’s 12m entries aged over 120, and they’re not all exactly the same age.

    Suspect there’s a lot of dates of birth that are 100 years away from what they should be, and 1,000 people seemingly born in 1,800.

    It’s worth remembering that it’s only a handful of years ago that the last Civil War widow was still alive, and receiving her pension. She died in 2020, 155 years after the war finished!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century

    The last civil war widow didn't actually receive her pension - she didn't claim it because her son-in-law threatened her if she did.

    A disabled daughter of a veteran was still receiving a pension until 2020, however.
    Ah so the last widow actually receiving a pension died only 144 years after the war ended!

    Apparently the thinking within US social security is that their primary aim is to minimise complaints, which means minimising false negative flags in the database. No-one receiving money they’re not expecting is making a complaint, and for various reasons this has been happening for decades with no auditing.

    The working estimate for Musk’s team is several hundred billion dollars a year paid out incorrectly.

    When added to the story from last week of the federal employee retirement process still being done on paper and taking months to complete, It’s quite the insight into just how antequated are all of the systems they’re using. One can imagine that the UK government will also have a number of equally silly stories about systems that hang together by the barest of threads.
    US gov't spend is/was ~ 23% of gdp, whereas we're at ~45%. If you allow 11% for health it's still 23/34 as comparable figures to my mind. I think this is a large part of why they've got so much richer than us since 2008. We need to cut a heck of a lot.
    Some good news on the NHS numbers this morning. If Starmer goes before the election Streeting might be the one to fight 2029.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922

    Sandpit said:

    The list of 150-year-olds in the US social security database is apparently even more complicated than was first thought.

    Number of entries for each age range decade, where “Dead” = False in the database.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891398562874818990

    There’s 12m entries aged over 120, and they’re not all exactly the same age.

    Suspect there’s a lot of dates of birth that are 100 years away from what they should be, and 1,000 people seemingly born in 1,800.

    (Snip)

    What amazes me is that you believe what Musk and his pimply nerds come out with. Why?
    It's also looking in the wrong place. The Real Steal happens inside FAR contracts. And is completely legal.

    The US government contracts most stuff under the Federal Acquisition Regulations. These came about by, every time there was fraud or profiteering, adding more regulation.

    So a company working on a FAR contract can often only make a certain amount of profit. Yes, being too profitable is an offence (see War Profiteering and WWI).

    An intense system of paperwork and supervision is put in place inside the companies to enforce all this. This is all paid for by the government via increased cost. Better yet, this forms a massive barrier to entrants - only companies setup to generate the tidal wave of paperwork can get involved.

    The fun really starts at outsourcing. The simplest thing to do (paperwork wise) is to subcontract a piece of the work to another company. And they in their turn etc etc. The beauty of this is that profit is allowed at each stage in the pyramid of outsourcing. So I contract Fred to make something. He gets it made by Dave, who puts 20% on top. Dave gets Arnold to make it and puts 20% on top.....

    Awesome fun.

    But it gets better. This structure is awesome for distributing work politically. So you don't donate to Congressman Turd. No Sir. But all the companies in the pyramid, in his district do.... So you align the pyramid with those who vote to pour money in at the top.

    It's a bit like those stack of champagne goblets they use in the movies to express conspicuous consumption by rich people. A flunky pours champagne in at the top and it fills all the glasses in the pyramid.

    And even better. What happens, if you accidentally own shares in companies that own shares in companies that are part of the pyramid? Well, you collect far more than your profit..... It's enough to make you cry with joy, isn't it?

    And it's all legal and In The Best Possible Taste! (as Kenny Everett used to say)
  • CJohnCJohn Posts: 62

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Rejection of life is a revolutionary act. I.S. Turgenev created the character of Bazarov as a parody of the Men of the Sixties but actually become an unironic role model for young Russians. This nihilism then became violent through agency of the New Men like Zaitsev and Nechayev (the basis for Shigalev and Verkhovensky in F. M. Dostoyevsky's Demons).

    Life denying fanaticism is deeply embedded in Russian culture and unless one is able to grasp, in totality, and politically contextualise the Nechayev Affair then it's impossible to make any serious comment on the SMO.

    Start with Bakunin and Nechayev's Revolutionary Catechism. Nechayev also recommended sleeping on a hard wooden board.
    ¡Viva la Muerte!

    "Muera la intelegencia! Viva la muerte!"


    is the full quote.

    Various sources suggest a high likelihood that these words WERE shouted in the face-off between General Millan-Astray, Franco's one-eyed propaganda-chief and Unamuno, philosopher, novelist, cultural critic and erstwhile tepid supporter of Francoism.

    Though sources are

  • "Trump won't even be president at the next UK GE" .... looking at the constitutional crisis brewing in the states that cannot be said with any certainty.

    It also can't be said with certainty because there is every possibility of the next UK General Election being in 2028.

    Keiren Pedley sort of contradicts himself in his thread, saying polls can change remarkably quickly, whilst also seeming to rule out the idea of this Parliament not running the full five year term. Polls would clearly need to change, but they do tend to do so, and there is every chance of a UK election in 2028.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,768
    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Rejection of life is a revolutionary act. I.S. Turgenev created the character of Bazarov as a parody of the Men of the Sixties but actually become an unironic role model for young Russians. This nihilism then became violent through agency of the New Men like Zaitsev and Nechayev (the basis for Shigalev and Verkhovensky in F. M. Dostoyevsky's Demons).

    Life denying fanaticism is deeply embedded in Russian culture and unless one is able to grasp, in totality, and politically contextualise the Nechayev Affair then it's impossible to make any serious comment on the SMO.

    Start with Bakunin and Nechayev's Revolutionary Catechism. Nechayev also recommended sleeping on a hard wooden board.
    Nechayev sounds a right pain in the hole to be around.
    Reading about him it strikes me yet again that in all that ferment what a cultural powerhouse was Russia, even all the way to late stage Soviet Union (was Tarkovsky the last great Russian artist?). Pussy Riot are good and everything, but now it seems a dead zone.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,182
    "Trump wont even be president at next UK election"

    Yeh, right.

    People have not truly grasped what has befallen America.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,157

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    The list of 150-year-olds in the US social security database is apparently even more complicated than was first thought.

    Number of entries for each age range decade, where “Dead” = False in the database.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891398562874818990

    There’s 12m entries aged over 120, and they’re not all exactly the same age.

    Suspect there’s a lot of dates of birth that are 100 years away from what they should be, and 1,000 people seemingly born in 1,800.

    It’s worth remembering that it’s only a handful of years ago that the last Civil War widow was still alive, and receiving her pension. She died in 2020, 155 years after the war finished!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century

    The last civil war widow didn't actually receive her pension - she didn't claim it because her son-in-law threatened her if she did.

    A disabled daughter of a veteran was still receiving a pension until 2020, however.
    Ah so the last widow actually receiving a pension died only 144 years after the war ended!

    Apparently the thinking within US social security is that their primary aim is to minimise complaints, which means minimising false negative flags in the database. No-one receiving money they’re not expecting is making a complaint, and for various reasons this has been happening for decades with no auditing.

    The working estimate for Musk’s team is several hundred billion dollars a year paid out incorrectly.

    When added to the story from last week of the federal employee retirement process still being done on paper and taking months to complete, It’s quite the insight into just how antequated are all of the systems they’re using. One can imagine that the UK government will also have a number of equally silly stories about systems that hang together by the barest of threads.
    The biggest problem with the incompetent and ham fisted way this is being done, is that it will be a disaster and block attempts at genuine reform for a generation.
    Anyone who has ever dealt with a database with public input, or even merely non-expert users, will know that there are a lot of erroneous or incomplete records in such databases. You either accept a certain amount of error, or you end up rejecting a lot of entries and greatly increase clerical costs. It's very hard to operate any database at scale with user input and only have correct and fully complete records.
  • CJohnCJohn Posts: 62
    "Mueran los intelectuales!" is a more prosaic rendition.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,335
    Talking of four years being a long time, in Guardianista economics, fifteen months is apparently even longer. 108 lefty economists prophesied disaster for Javier Milei in the Guardian in November 2023:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/08/argentina-election-javier-milei-economists-warning

    And now, guess what? Inflation is down, fast growth is back, poverty has declined to below the level when he took over.

    https://www.santander.com/en/press-room/specials/latin-america-growth-drivers-for-2025/argentina-the-normalization-of-the-economy-will-continue-in-2025
    https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/argentina/expert-reports-say-argentinas-poverty-rate-has-fallen-to-368.phtml

    Milei is so far showing himself to be the greatest politician in the democratic world since, and possibly including, Margaret Thatcher, from whom he learned so much. He did this without a majority in Congress, and in the face of Argentina's disastrous corporatist/socialist Peronist tradition. He has made some mistakes, in particular by not liberalising the exchange rate fast enough, but the lefty economists have proved yet again that knowing some economics and being good at economic policy are very different (something Starmer should have realised when he chose Reeves). Needless to say, they have not asked themselves why they got Milei so badly wrong.

    And the comparison between him and Starmer/Reeves, or for that matter Macron, Scholz or Trump, is just embarrassing.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,950
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the
    Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as
    anything other than expendable.
    Most of them aren’t real Russians in his view. They are from Dagestan and other untermensch. They’re not good Moscow boys
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,950
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Relatedly.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1891195175566729708
    Except for Hitler and Napoleon has anyone actually cared about Russia to the point of invading it..

    Edit and the Mongols but they were a unique case..
    Napoleon.

    And the Poles in 1609 and 1920.


    And the Swedes in 1708.

    Apart from that I'm struggling.
    The Brits a couple of times (Archangel and the far east)
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,433
    edited February 17
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    The 2021 census suggests about 50m Russians between 18 and 44. Assume half male and knock a few off at each end and, based on the U.S. estimate of 700k dead or wounded, that’s devastating.
    In slightly happier times, this is Chicane (one of my favourite electronic trance artists) playing to the Tele-Club in Yekaterinburg in 2011. You can feel yourself being part of that crowd. Loads of young Russians going crazy to a British dance artist and singer, and fully unified by the euphoria of the music.

    How many of them are now dead?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfIp64A3CI
    That's great. Chicane are great. Sigh. All gone now..

    However I have a Yekaterinberg story

    Around 1990, just after the fall of the Berlin Wall, I tried to cure my heroin addiction by taking the Trans Siberian across Russia to Vladivostok, there to take the first ever civilian boat out of that port, to Japan (it was a newspaper commission)

    Given my intense habit it was predictably chaotic and all went predictably very wrong (at one point I got thrown off a troop train in the Siberian taiga, at midnight - literally left to the wolves). The whole story is pretty mind boggling

    At another point I ended up sleeping three nights in Yekaterinberg airport - sleeping so heavily the airport security woman was worried I was very ill, or that I might starve. So she gave me a boiled rabbit

    Eventually she helped me get from the airport to the station so I could re-discover my train, but on the way I realised we were passing the place, site of the Ipatiev House, where the Romanovs were shot dead in a cellar

    I got out the car and approached the bare patch of earth - marked by one of those weird skewed Siberian crosses. There was no other memorial, nothing but the cross, it was otherwise just a patch of waste ground in the thin Siberian summer sun (this was one year after the end of communism)

    As I stood there imagining the horrible scene, the gun fire mowing down the imperial children, a babushka emerged from nowhere and scuttled over to me and pressed something hard and metal into my hand, then she crossed herself, and disappeared

    I looked down. It was a handsome metal badge with the double headed imperial eagle of the Romanovs. I still have it now

    It was so long ago I think Yekaterinberg was still called Sverdlovsk
    That's an amazing story.
    Mate, I have 100 like this. Ask @rcs1000...

    My problem is that I have too many!

    One day SOON I shall work out a way to thread the necklace

    (but thankyou for your kind words)
    There is a wonderful legend about the Trans Siberian railway. The train stops unexpectedly for an unspecified amount of time within a few hundred metres of Lake Baikal.

    The legend is that the length of time it stops is almost exactly the length of time needed to run down to the lake (naked, naturally), dive in and run back to the train.

    It is to my eternal shame that I didn't test the legend when we passed about half midnight in the summer of 2008.

    It is, to put it mildly, a high-stakes test, especially in winter.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,018
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    There was no other memorial, nothing but the cross, it was otherwise just a patch of waste ground in the thin Siberian summer sun (this was one year after the end of communism)

    Yekaterinburg is not in Siberia. It's in the Ural Federal District.
    Thanks for that important correction

    I suspect it might have been lost on the Romanovs, who would deffo have felt they were being despatched to "Siberia"
    Weren't they coming back from Siberia when stopped in Yekaterinburg?
    Old mate Putin built a rather mawkish church on the site of the execution of the crowned thieves but the poignancy is somewhat marred by the six lane motorway that now runs right past it. Honk your horn to show respect for the Romanovs.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922
    CJohn said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ukrainian President Zelensky says more than 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022, with "tens of thousands more missing in action or in captivity".

    Those missing in action could be dead or in captivity, Zelensky told NBC News on Sunday.

    Ten days earlier, on 6 February, Zelensky said 45,100 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed and around 390,000 had been wounded. Military experts in Ukraine and the West believe the number could be far higher.

    Russia hasn't released an equivalent figure, but UK Defence Intelligence estimated in December that an average of 1,523 Russian soldiers were being killed and wounded every day.

    Zelensky says up to 350,000 Russian soldiers have been killed - other reports suggest that number could be much higher.

    That's an extraordinary figure.

    To put it in context, 265,000 British combat personnel were killed in the whole of the Second World War.
    That's the problem with Russia - Putin doesn't seem to regard it's population as anything other than expendable.
    Plus ça change.
    If a nation continues to fetishise a war that happened 80+ years ago with deaths in the tens of millions, I imagine sacrifice is very much a cultural part of its psyche. Just as they can't comprehend societies that value (up to a point) their citizens and troops, we can't really understand that level of dogged acceptance.
    Rejection of life is a revolutionary act. I.S. Turgenev created the character of Bazarov as a parody of the Men of the Sixties but actually become an unironic role model for young Russians. This nihilism then became violent through agency of the New Men like Zaitsev and Nechayev (the basis for Shigalev and Verkhovensky in F. M. Dostoyevsky's Demons).

    Life denying fanaticism is deeply embedded in Russian culture and unless one is able to grasp, in totality, and politically contextualise the Nechayev Affair then it's impossible to make any serious comment on the SMO.

    Start with Bakunin and Nechayev's Revolutionary Catechism. Nechayev also recommended sleeping on a hard wooden board.
    ¡Viva la Muerte!

    "Muera la intelegencia! Viva la muerte!"


    is the full quote.

    Various sources suggest a high likelihood that these words WERE shouted in the face-off between General Millan-Astray, Franco's one-eyed propaganda-chief and Unamuno, philosopher, novelist, cultural critic and erstwhile tepid supporter of Francoism.

    Though sources are

    The short version sums it up perfectly though. Death Love.

    Big Piles Of Dead People Is Awesome.

    You find even not especially tankie Lefties in the UK, in between anti-war activism, summoning the Glorious Dead of The Great Patriotic War. They get very upset when you point out that vast numbers of those deaths were a complete waste.

    Simple example - It took the Nazis 35 days to conquer half of Poland, while the Soviet Union was stealing the other half. So, if they had still had Poland in between The Soviet Union and Germany, it would have taken the Germans *weeks* to get to the front door. Especially is the Soviet Union wasn't attacking from the other side.

    Instead, they had the Germans at the front door.....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,828

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    The list of 150-year-olds in the US social security database is apparently even more complicated than was first thought.

    Number of entries for each age range decade, where “Dead” = False in the database.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891398562874818990

    There’s 12m entries aged over 120, and they’re not all exactly the same age.

    Suspect there’s a lot of dates of birth that are 100 years away from what they should be, and 1,000 people seemingly born in 1,800.

    It’s worth remembering that it’s only a handful of years ago that the last Civil War widow was still alive, and receiving her pension. She died in 2020, 155 years after the war finished!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century

    The last civil war widow didn't actually receive her pension - she didn't claim it because her son-in-law threatened her if she did.

    A disabled daughter of a veteran was still receiving a pension until 2020, however.
    Ah so the last widow actually receiving a pension died only 144 years after the war ended!

    Apparently the thinking within US social security is that their primary aim is to minimise complaints, which means minimising false negative flags in the database. No-one receiving money they’re not expecting is making a complaint, and for various reasons this has been happening for decades with no auditing.

    The working estimate for Musk’s team is several hundred billion dollars a year paid out incorrectly.

    When added to the story from last week of the federal employee retirement process still being done on paper and taking months to complete, It’s quite the insight into just how antequated are all of the systems they’re using. One can imagine that the UK government will also have a number of equally silly stories about systems that hang together by the barest of threads.
    The biggest problem with the incompetent and ham fisted way this is being done, is that it will be a disaster and block attempts at genuine reform for a generation.
    Musk and his "pimple faced teenagers" are doing fine, some stuff will inevitably be cut too far but shouting in the media about particular hobby horses doesn't mean what he's doing isn't working.

    The live stream of savings is on: https://doge.gov/
    If it's going to be stopped it'll either be because of the courts or congress people's vested interests.

    Next stop the US military, and err "emphasising" the need for Europe to deal with it's own issues will allow an absolute chainsaw to that budget.
    Seems like Cooper is going to copy aspects of DOGE anyway to try and find savings.
  • UK Special Forces command rejected resettlement applications from more than 2,000 Afghan commandos who had shown credible evidence of service in units that fought alongside the SAS and SBS, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed for the first time.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy9l9elr95zo

    So why aren't they fighting the Taliban ?

    What's the ratio of how many Afghans fought the Taliban takeover in 2021 compared with how many who have since tried to get asylum ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    edited February 17
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    There was no other memorial, nothing but the cross, it was otherwise just a patch of waste ground in the thin Siberian summer sun (this was one year after the end of communism)

    Yekaterinburg is not in Siberia. It's in the Ural Federal District.
    Thanks for that important correction

    I suspect it might have been lost on the Romanovs, who would deffo have felt they were being despatched to "Siberia"
    Weren't they coming back from Siberia when stopped in Yekaterinburg?
    I think they were being shunted around as the Bolsheviks worked out how, whether and where to kill them

    Yekaterinberg is east of the Urals so, psychologically, if not cartographically, it would have felt like "Siberia" to the Romanovs

    Indeed it feels like that to the Russians. When I was sold the one way air ticket - in 1990 - in Moscow, the Aeroflot lady said "this will get you into Siberia". That was my flight from Sheremtyevo Airport to Sverdlovsk (aka Yekaterinberg)

    Buying that ticket left me entirely without money (and no credit cards). The only way I could get to the airport was by bribing the cab driver with my Sony Walkman

    I was relying on the kindness of strangers. x1000. Luckily Russians can be incredibly kind, in various forms - troops, doctors, sailors, airport ladies, water engineers, prostitutes wih golden hearts, mayors of small cities, old ladies in too many cardigans - they kept me in vodka and pickles all the way to Vladivostok, albeit with several disasters on the way and then I got the first civilian boat out of Vladvistok across the Sea of Okhotsk and then I arrived, several days later, in Yokohama and I jumped the ticket barriers on the Shinkanesen and made my way to a friend who was living in Kyoto by the Philosopher's footpath and every evening we would cycle past the Zen temples and the fireflies and the knicker vending machines down to the canals of Old Gion and we'd watch the geishas go to work, in their wooden clogs, under their antique parasols, smiling at us shyly with their blackened teeth
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,073
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    The list of 150-year-olds in the US social security database is apparently even more complicated than was first thought.

    Number of entries for each age range decade, where “Dead” = False in the database.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891398562874818990

    There’s 12m entries aged over 120, and they’re not all exactly the same age.

    Suspect there’s a lot of dates of birth that are 100 years away from what they should be, and 1,000 people seemingly born in 1,800.

    It’s worth remembering that it’s only a handful of years ago that the last Civil War widow was still alive, and receiving her pension. She died in 2020, 155 years after the war finished!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century

    The last civil war widow didn't actually receive her pension - she didn't claim it because her son-in-law threatened her if she did.

    A disabled daughter of a veteran was still receiving a pension until 2020, however.
    Ah so the last widow actually receiving a pension died only 144 years after the war ended!

    Apparently the thinking within US social security is that their primary aim is to minimise complaints, which means minimising false negative flags in the database. No-one receiving money they’re not expecting is making a complaint, and for various reasons this has been happening for decades with no auditing.

    The working estimate for Musk’s team is several hundred billion dollars a year paid out incorrectly.

    When added to the story from last week of the federal employee retirement process still being done on paper and taking months to complete, It’s quite the insight into just how antequated are all of the systems they’re using. One can imagine that the UK government will also have a number of equally silly stories about systems that hang together by the barest of threads.
    US gov't spend is/was ~ 23% of gdp, whereas we're at ~45%. If you allow 11% for health it's still 23/34 as comparable figures to my mind. I think this is a large part of why they've got so much richer than us since 2008. We need to cut a heck of a lot.
    Some good news on the NHS numbers this morning. If Starmer goes before the election Streeting might be the one to fight 2029.
    The reason they’ve got so much richer than us since 2008, in 3 charts and one paragraph:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/265215/us-oil-production-in-million-metric-tons/
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/265331/natural-gas-production-in-the-us/
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/191320/total-us-petroleum-exports/

    Exports The top exports of United States are Crude Petroleum ($125B), Refined Petroleum ($107B), Petroleum Gas ($83.2B), Gas Turbines ($69.3B), and Cars ($65.3B), exporting mostly to Canada ($269B), Mexico ($243B), China ($154B), Germany ($94.8B), and Japan ($80.2B).



    USA = petrostate. A giant Saudi, but with alcohol.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,527
    Twitter has descended into full froth on the news we might put British boots into Ukraine.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,527
    Also - SNOW.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,711
    Sandpit said:

    The list of 150-year-olds in the US social security database is apparently even more complicated than was first thought.

    Number of entries for each age range decade, where “Dead” = False in the database.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891398562874818990

    There’s 12m entries aged over 120, and they’re not all exactly the same age.

    Suspect there’s a lot of dates of birth that are 100 years away from what they should be, and 1,000 people seemingly born in 1,800.

    It’s worth remembering that it’s only a handful of years ago that the last Civil War widow was still alive, and receiving her pension. She died in 2020, 155 years after the war finished!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century

    Elon Musk routinely lies. What Musk claims on his Twitter account cannot reliably tell us about what is really going on. When will you learn this?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    The list of 150-year-olds in the US social security database is apparently even more complicated than was first thought.

    Number of entries for each age range decade, where “Dead” = False in the database.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891398562874818990

    There’s 12m entries aged over 120, and they’re not all exactly the same age.

    Suspect there’s a lot of dates of birth that are 100 years away from what they should be, and 1,000 people seemingly born in 1,800.

    It’s worth remembering that it’s only a handful of years ago that the last Civil War widow was still alive, and receiving her pension. She died in 2020, 155 years after the war finished!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century

    The last civil war widow didn't actually receive her pension - she didn't claim it because her son-in-law threatened her if she did.

    A disabled daughter of a veteran was still receiving a pension until 2020, however.
    Ah so the last widow actually receiving a pension died only 144 years after the war ended!

    Apparently the thinking within US social security is that their primary aim is to minimise complaints, which means minimising false negative flags in the database. No-one receiving money they’re not expecting is making a complaint, and for various reasons this has been happening for decades with no auditing.

    The working estimate for Musk’s team is several hundred billion dollars a year paid out incorrectly.

    When added to the story from last week of the federal employee retirement process still being done on paper and taking months to complete, It’s quite the insight into just how antequated are all of the systems they’re using. One can imagine that the UK government will also have a number of equally silly stories about systems that hang together by the barest of threads.
    The biggest problem with the incompetent and ham fisted way this is being done, is that it will be a disaster and block attempts at genuine reform for a generation.
    Musk and his "pimple faced teenagers" are doing fine, some stuff will inevitably be cut too far but shouting in the media about particular hobby horses doesn't mean what he's doing isn't working.

    The live stream of savings is on: https://doge.gov/
    If it's going to be stopped it'll either be because of the courts or congress people's vested interests.

    Next stop the US military, and err "emphasising" the need for Europe to deal with it's own issues will allow an absolute chainsaw to that budget.
    Seems like Cooper is going to copy aspects of DOGE anyway to try and find savings.
    Before 9/11, Donald Rumsfeld came up with a way to save many billions in defence spending, without removing American's influence or bases. Because of 9/11, it wasn't implemented.

    Various increasingly absurd projects (Boeing Pelican) were being proposed to give the US military global mobility, faster.

    Rumsfeld came up with a simpler answer. Stockpile heavy equipment at various locations around the world. Shrink wrapped tanks, artillery, ammunition, fuel etc in air conditioned warehouses. The US already does this, but he proposed it on an epic scale. Whole armies of it.

    The various sites would only need a smallish team of maintainers. In the even of a conflict, soldiers would be flown in to activate the equipment - a few hundred airline flights would bring in a division. This would actually be far cheaper than having some kind of exotic transport system for heavy equipment - and would be faster.

    Politically, this would mean that huge number of US troops would be moved back to the States. Which would be good for local economies there, and make troop retention easier. The arms makers would get to sell more examples of their weapons - so a political win there.

    The irony was that this was going to be implemented in Saudi Arabia first - draw down to set of warehouses. And US troops in Saudi was Bin Ladin's big complaint....
  • MattW said:

    A further note to @Foxy.

    There are also tensions starting to bubble up in the USA amongst Trump's core base.

    We already have Trump supporters having their workforces, families and spouses deported. And monies being cut off abruptly in the USA as they were cut off across the world when USAID was shuttered. For example I saw one where a farmer had had his federally funded fencing and drainage project stopped in its tracks when half-built.

    But if for example if the Department of Education gets shuttered, that will impact Red States which get the most money effectively cross-subsidised from Blue States.

    There's also things like cuts to Medidaid and so on, and NIH research cuts are impacting Universities in Red States. There was one (may have been Alabama) where the University was the most significant employer.
    https://archive.is/20250212171438/https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/12/trump-universities-funding-cuts-016328

    Any of that could blow up unpredictably. And when tariffs start impacting or retaliaton comes in ... eg Canada supplies the overwhelming majority of heavy crude refined in Texas, with few alternatives (aiui Venezuela, Russia). For example, what happens if Canada does a reverse tariff and puts 10% on the price?

    Depends on who gets hit and how they are viewed.

    Spending on others isn't always viewed positively.

    And people complaining that their illegal immigrant workforce has been deported aren't going to get much sympathy.
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